March 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Neuroscience educator Kathryn Berkett joins to discuss how to kick your kids out - the right way.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
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Supper Yues, welcome back to the Weekend Collective on Tion Beverage.
If we must in the previous hours. You can go
and check out their podcast. Look for the Weekend Collective
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starting porter is the News news Talk, said b. I
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b website, or iHeartRadio and check it out, and we
(00:47):
generally get the podcast up pretty quickly after the hour
has concluded. Right, it's time for the Parents Squad, and
we're gonna have a chat about just the question about
how long your kids should could would live at home.
But I think the questions really should how long is
it okay for kids to live it home for? And
are there different circumstances where you might think, well, it's okay,
(01:09):
they're forty three years old, they're still living at home
and that's all fine because we've got a separate granny
flat or something. Or is there a time when actually
in every family is different, So I'm not saying there,
I'm not looking for an answer or somebody to come
up with the iron plaid rule that come the age
of twenty one, you should definitely be out of the house,
or eighteen or whatever. But what is the right time
(01:34):
for your child children to be sort of nudged out
the door or encouraged to go and live somewhere else.
It might even have something to do just just with
the age of the parents as well, whether you've had
children early and you know you want to you're still
young enough and you want to sort of have a
second honeymoon type of existence and you want the kids
out of the house, or maybe it's just for your
(01:55):
kids you think that there's a time when you really
need to encourage them to be more independent, which from
the day they're born. I guess there is always that
gradual growth where you're trying to encourage your kids to
stand on their own two feet, And of course the
moving out is a big one anyway. So we want
your cause on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text
nine nine two. And to join me in that discussion
(02:18):
is neuroscience educator. She's very familiar to us all on
the Appearance Squad and it's Katherine Burkett. Catherine, Hello, how
are you?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm great? Thank you? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Not too bad now? Because of course are you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I can't remember exactly where you're at with children being
at home and not at home because they, yours are
a few more years, They've got a few more years
on mine, and at the moment, the idea of my
kids moving out is like a nightmare because I love
having them around, and I.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Don't know, it's it's not about loving having them around.
It it's about their space. But one's moved out. But
I was just actually hanging out with her today, which
is really nice. And my son's eighteen and he's still here,
so definitely in that space of making that decisions. So
it's a good it's a good There's a good question
to start with.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, who makes the well your case? I mean, you
may can share as much as you want to or
not about your own family, but how did the decision
come about for your daughter to move out? Because for
many people, if your kids go to a different you know,
a university or tertiary education or something in a different town,
that decision makes itself. But it's you know, renting is expensive,
(03:29):
living is expensive. You want kids to save for a house.
You know, there's the sympetus for people to maybe hang
around home a bit longer, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, and you want to I don't know. You don't
want to make it too easy for them to stay
in lots of ways. But my daughter she was going
to move out and then I actually we decided to
move into an apartment in central Wellington, and so she
delayed her moving out for a year. She thought that
would be She negotiated that as a good idea, but
it was her choice to move out, her absolute Yeah,
(03:59):
be independent. She almost moved away. She always moved to
another university just to get away from me and live independent.
But she chose not to and then she chose to stay.
It's just and I think that's really healthy. I don't
take that in any bad way. But I'm not a
mum who's in her pocket anyway sort of thing, So
I think she was all right. But yeah, I mean,
your kids will often make that decision. And if they're
(04:20):
making the decision, then that's significantly easier for adult, isn't it.
I think what you're talking about is when they're holding
on for a little bit longer and you're like, do
I need to push a little bit harder or or not.
I think that's probably where the issues come along.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, because it can be well, it can be a
difficult decision, especially when money comes into play, isn't it,
Because you get young people who are you know, they're
still finding the way, especially if they're students. Is there
I mean not that we're going to come up with
a magic number, but to me, it wouldn't seem depending
(04:57):
on how you are governing the relationship with your kids
once they get to say they're finished school, and whether
they're out in the world force or whether they're a
student or something, I can imagine that there'd be a
truckload of households around the country where kids are still,
you know, living at home simply because they want to
get a little bit further ahead. They're earning for the
first time, they don't want to have to spend everything
(05:19):
on rent and all that. And I can imagine that'd
be quite a common scenario, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So? And you know what, there's no problem if you
believe it's okay for a young person to be at home,
and they are. They're contributing and what because what we
want our young people to do is learn how to
look after themselves, to how if they do move out,
how to look after themselves. So as long as they
are living in your space, and you are respectfully and
(05:46):
slowly pulling away your support of them, so they have
to cook their own dinners at times, they have to
look after themselves. They're doing all their own washing, they're
looking after themselves. Then they're having to start paying some
rent and they're having to do some things to support
you because that's what they are now. They're essentially a
flatmate now, so they should be doing can you a dinner?
Every now and then. As long as you're moving that
(06:09):
locus of you know, sort of responsibility across, then that's
healthy and they could stay there for quite a few
years if you were literally living with your young person
and they're okay there, but it shouldn't be that you're
still being the parent and you're still cooking everything and
cleaning everything and being a parent to them, if you
see what I mean. My relationship with my son has
definitely moved away from me being his parent. Obviously, I'm
(06:31):
still going to do some parenting behaviors towards him. But
well that's what he design not healthy.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That's almost something that it's a tacit it's a tacit
part of the contract in a way that if you're
going to be living on I mean, how many parents
would have said it, you're living under my you're living
under my house, my rules. There's a difficult one once
that could start getting a bit older because and that
is a bit of a leap for a parent to make,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, And so as parents, we have to get ourselves
in the right head space, right, so we're saying do it.
And if you, if you, if they're not doing anything
to pick them out, to ask our young people to leave,
like you said, especially monetarily, are you actually going to
put them into a dangerous, unhealthy situation. So that's really
to be aware. But you can start making things less
(07:18):
easy for them. And what I hear is a lot
of parents are still doing everything and then wondering why
the kids aren't moving House's like, well they need to. Yeah,
they've got it too good, and so let's make it
not so good. And it's not about being mean to them.
It's just increasing their responsibility for themselves and that's healthy.
And if they could move out tomorrow and look after themselves,
(07:39):
that's how I see. I mean, I know my son
could move out tomorrow, he could look after himself. I mean,
I travel a lot, so it's actually quite a good situation.
He's often looking after himself for long periods of time,
so he's you know, I'm not over him, but I
have to also be really careful that when I come back,
I don't go back into a parenting role and then
start being as parents. So that's for the adults to
(07:59):
decide where your role is, and if you can sit
nicely there, it actually reduces the stress, reduce is that
expectation on them, and hopefully it would mean you could
co you know, live because nicely.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Because culturally, I think there probably be some cultures where
extended families are living together for long and their grandparents
in the house, and you can imagine that there would
be a scenario where where if you're living in one
of those sort of cultures where there is much more
of an extended family vibe than kids might actually mind you,
they might be dying to move out actually be honest,
but you can imagine that there would be depending on
(08:36):
different cultures, kids would stick around longer because grandma and
granddad are there, or and that sort of thing. What
would are there signs? Would there be warning signs that
that would give you a sort of a signal that
it's actually not healthy any longer. What would be the
signs that it's not good?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's often the parent whose So I hear a lot
from parents who the young person because our young people,
we're trying to find independence, right, they're trying to be
their independent selves, and as parents were sort of naturally
their parents, so naturally when you're coming home. I remember
coming home from overseas. I've been living overseas for five
years and I stayed with my mum and dad for
six months, and mum was asking where I was. I
(09:19):
was like, I just don't understand this behavior anymore. And
it made me really annoyed that was checking in on me.
So the parent still wants to be the parent, the
child wants to be this independence, So you get this
big clash and then the parent is feeling really angry
and then they're not communicating. Well, that's not healthy, and
that's where I would want to ask, is it time
for them to move out now. If the parent is
(09:41):
feeling unhappy in their own home, especially if the other
one paying the rent, paying the mortgage, looking after the place,
then that's when I would be starting to ask is
it time for them to move out? If the parent
themselves is unhappy in their own home from their young person,
then some decisions need to start being made. Do you
remember when you moved out, no doubt when I was
(10:05):
sixteen seventeen?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, well that you were busting for some independence, were you?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Or is it?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I think a few things happened, but yeah,
moved out quite young, But then we were always quite
independent anyway as young people.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So yeah, we'd love your cause on this. Have you
when did you move out yourselves? But also when it
comes to your kids, how do you manage that step
towards independence? Or manage it if they are actually going
to stay at home for a bit longer, because it's
quite legitimate asn't even Catherine mentioned after traveling overseas sometimes
kid's return home.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I did it.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean because I was constantly working over in Australia
and I'd come back and then i'd stay for a
bit at mum and Dad's and I don't funny enough,
I can't really remember too much about exactly when I
was out because I moved away from home when I
went to university, and all of a sudden, you're having
to I think the only the influence that mum had
was giving me some good recipes to cook. But that
(11:03):
happened naturally, because I think that happens a lot with
kids when they decide what whether they're going to you know,
university or how are they going to shift towns, and
that decision often gets made. But if we'd love your
calls on this and how you've navigated the your kids
staying at home and how long was okay and if
they did end up having to be sort of encouraged
to move out, what were the signs that sort of
(11:26):
brought about that situation. We love your calls on this.
On eight hundred eighty ten eighty. I guess the question
is it's also about preparing your kids to move out, isn't.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It, Catherine Unders And that's what we want. As long
as you think that, just say, for some whatever reason,
tomorrow your young person if they are getting to eighteen
nineteen twenty years old, which is when you would sort
of expect it, and that I'm saying that's when they
should Could they move out tomorrow, know how to cook
for themselves, know how to look after themselves, have the
ability to think forward and plan things and be able
(11:57):
to look at as long as that's there and all honesty.
These days with mortgages and rents, sometimes adults want their
kids to stay there and be contributing to the mortgage.
And if it's working, okay, there is absolutely no problem
with that. If it's healthy for both parties, then there's
no worries. But it's just when it becomes unhealthy, and
like I said, I usually see that with the parent
(12:18):
feeling not wanted, like angry in their own house, and
that's that's not okay. So that's the sort of stuff
I wouldn't want to see. But if there's not that dynamic,
then then it's And if it's working and you're not
over parenting your older child, then no problem with it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, were you when you moved out?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Were you?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Had you been independent to that point? You can relate
that story to your daughter as well. I mean, at
what stage did they start and did your daughter start
cooking meals and sort of getting that rehearsal, because if
I looked to when I went to the university, I
think basically, I mean, I knew how to fry an egg,
and probably poach and egg, and boil and egg and
scramble and egg. It might have been the limits of it,
(12:59):
but instantly, but Mum sent me. I knew how to
do a load of washing. I knew how to make
my bed, change sheets, but pretty much, I don't think
I've done much of it until I moved out, and
it was just a baptism afar. It's like, here's the
recipe for meat loaf, this is what you do, Here's
how long you borel potatoes for. I mean, that's why
they were all those flatting you know, food and all
(13:22):
that sort of stuff. And literally I was following it
from day one, the instructions. But you know, obviously I survived.
But I'm not sure that I was groomed for moving out.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, I guess. And I've always thought that my kids
are a little bit lucky given that I was a
single parent, and I was also running a business when
they were getting older, so I couldn't look after them
all the time, do you know what I mean? So
they had to be independent in some ways. This, you know,
having other stuff to do, not having the time to overparent,
(13:52):
not having time to cook every night meant they had to.
So yeah, my kids are both incredibly able to look
after themselves, mainly because I'm not the I'm not the
most attentive parent, I guess, and a good way. Yeah,
so should you.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I mean there'd be the other school of thought when
people say, well, once my child gets to eighteen, that's
that they have to move out. But pushing the kid
to move out if they don't necessarily aren't quite ready
for it, that's not a great thing necessarily either, because
I mean, I'm not sure if we can generalize too much,
but it does feel that maybe we're not growing up
as quickly as we are, we growing up quicker than
we used to or quick. I can work out the
(14:29):
answer to this, because in many ways I think young
people are immature for longer, but also somehow socially more
sassy and mature earlier. I can't work it out.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
More intentionality is the way I say it. So our
kids are more intentional, they're more aware of things where
we sort of just I don't know about you, but
I sort of just plunged through life. I just did
the next thing. I thought, Oh, I'm going to move out,
and that's that I've moved out. And then suddenly, like
sort of you said, it's like, oh, whats I've moved out?
How do I cook for myself? And how do I
live now? Where the kids are significantly more intentional now,
I think so, you're quite right, it's sort of double
(15:01):
edged sword. But I love it that they're more aware,
the more thinking. But I definitely don't think eighteen move out.
And if they want to, absolutely please let them. You know,
if they're ready to go, even if they're not ready
to go, and they can always come back, you know,
if they think they're ready.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
To go, well, that would be probably the more difficult.
I imagine an obvious one where you've got someone saying
I want to go get my own place, and you
look at where they are in life and in the
house and it's like they've probably never cooked a meal.
You struggle to get them to make their bed, and
next thing they're saying, Mum or Dad, I want to
go and get my own place, and you're like, honey,
you can't even boil an egg.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Let them go let them go one hundred percent. You
just said you only knew how to boil an egg
when you've moved out, Guess what you're learned pretty quickly.
There's the best way to move out, of course, I mean,
as long as they're not completely useless in their mind
for planning and stuff like that. But let them move out,
as long as there's an open door for them to
move back in if they did fail. But let them
(16:01):
move out. There's the best way to learn. Racking how
many people? How any listeners are going? Man, I moved out.
I think my dad tells the funny stories. When he
moved out. All he could eat make was instant puddings,
and so he lived on those old instant puddings that
we used to have. You know. So there's a lot
of people move out unable to do things. But guess
(16:21):
what the best way to learn is is to jem
I would never stop my cat even if I thought
they went ready, I'd be like, yeah, if you go,
I'll just watch from the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
When I went moved out and moved to a halls
of residence, but it was when I went flatting the
year after, and I'm kind of ashamed to share a
couple of stories. I'm very tempted to share about how
often I used to change my sheets. In fact, I
will tell it. It's quite I had a theory this
is how I just didn't have the habit of changing sheets.
(16:52):
And also we had one of those old ringer washing machines,
so it was real. I mean God, when we got
in one of those washing machines that actually spins your sheets,
I thought it was Christmas. But it was a real
choe to do your washing and you had to stand
there and wring them out. And I had a theory
that if I had a shower every night before I
went to bed, I could have the sheets last longer.
(17:13):
So I went a whole I once went a whole term.
And when I when I washed them in that ring
a machine, as soon as I put them in with
the detergent, the water just went brown. And I thought, oh,
I might have left that.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I don't think my fairy stands up right now. Well
you know, but also, Tim, that didn't kill you, do
you see what I mean? Like, seriously, just because our
kids are moving out and maybe not quite ready, it's
it's highly unlikely they're kind of do something that's going
to be really serious. It's just going to be stuff
like that. Oh really, is that really a bad thing? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Possibly, if I've been romantically involved with anyone, they would
have sort of had a shoe out for me. But anyway, look,
we want.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Your call, so I would have to wash them faster
if you've been romantically Ah.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yes, yes, yes, not getting into too much of the
nitty gritty, but look, we discussed when should you move out?
But what do you need to do to prepare your
children to move out? Is there something that they absolutely
must be prepared for or is it like all they
need to I want to move out, mum, dad, see
you later and you go good luck. Or are there
things that you, as a parent would really want to
(18:22):
do for them in preparation for them becoming independent people?
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine
two nine two. We'll be back in just a moment.
Vinnie is up next with Katherinn Burke at twenty five
past five. Is you feeling down to slem make you happy?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Welcome back to the show. That's the Parent Squad. My
guest is Katherine Burkett. She's a neuroscience educator talking about
kids moving out. When is it time to kick him out?
How do you prepare them for it? Do you need
to worry about preparing them for it, because frankly, you
know we're all sentient human beings. We work it out
along the way, don't we. Or are there some useful
things you can do to help your your kids hit
the ground running with their independence so it's a success
(19:03):
rather than an abject failure. And you have at their
door having met your door six months later and tears
saying come and I come home. Oh eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty Vinnie, Hello.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Hey, how are you going all right? Mate?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
How are you doing? O?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Good?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Good?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Thank you very much for having me on. I think
you guys now on the head, to be honest, especially
the part where you're talking about don't make it too
easy for kids living at home, otherwise they won't want
to leave. Now. A lot of my throughout university days
and all that sort of stuff. You know, I was
going to these parties where I'll see my mates living
(19:36):
and you know where they were living. I was going, well,
I don't like the look of this. Looks horrible, to
be honest, and I literally milked us for as long
as they could well into my well, I was, but
he's going into twenty three, yeah, twenty three, you know
throughout my university university days, you know. And I was going, mate,
this is great. I'm living at home. I've got bread
(19:57):
and breakfast. This is fantastic. My laundry is getting done
for me. How good. I can't complain. This is awesome.
And I'm seeing these guys, you know, I'm going to
these flat and stuff and going, oh, this is atrocious.
Is beer bottles all over the floor. It's sticky old
like you know, you feel like you're at a pub.
Your your feet aregat stuck to the floor, and going,
oh god, I'd rather be a mum's house, which you
know there's cleaning going on every every every weekend. So
(20:18):
but I must say what really helped us? And now look,
I must have met for a few nights out. You know,
you're bringing bringing the bringing a lady home after a
night out and and you have to awkwardly, you know,
scooter out the front door, you know, and of one
one two bedroom household in St. Helia's you know, it's
a bit awkward. And that's where I got my mind
(20:39):
going to mind, what are we doing? And anyway, so lucky,
luckily enough, this lady, a lovely lady that I met,
who and I decided to you know, kick things over
and moved to Toronto together. So that was our first,
our first thinking of oh, let's get out of the
house and whatnot. Mind you three months prior to the
pandemic kicked off and going, oh god, what are we
going to do? So we're stuck over in Toronto. I'm going,
(20:59):
what are we going to do when we get back?
You know, trying to make a plan. Going all right,
it can be very difficult to find a job and whatnot,
and so mom's probably kicking us souf, going oh we've
finally got him out of the house. And so you know,
I talked to her. I said, look, would you mind
if my partner and I moved back into your two
bedroom you know, flat and back in Auckland. And she
welcomed us back with open arms because I explained to her.
(21:21):
I was like, look, we've got a plan, you know,
we want to try and save up enough money to
get a deposit for a house together. Rah. So all
I'm going to say is it was fantastic having a
house to fall back on. When we had a plan,
you know that we want to save enough for a
deposit for a house. Yet we pitched in for the
rent for mum because it was a single single parent household.
(21:44):
So you guys are nailed on the head. If you
can come back with your son or your daughter, you know,
can actually pitch in with things like rent and whatever,
like food and all that sort of stuff. I can't
see there's no problem whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
How did the relationship workout? Is it still going strongly Evani?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Or well? I can gladly say she's now my fiance
and we've got a house down here in Wellington now,
which is awesome. So the plan went okay, went off? Yeah,
thank you went really well, so having you know, if
your parents are over minded enough to you know, if
you don't get in my way, you know, if you
help out with the cleaning, if you have up with
the cooking. Yeah, it went well, so well.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It sounds like you must you must have a good
relationship with your mum as well. But also when you
move back, you did you know, you sort of got permission.
You did what a grown up would do. You didn't
just say hey, hey, mama, moving back. And by the way,
here's whatever your partner's.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Load of washing.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, here's a load of washing. And here's my girlfriend.
Can you squeeze her her small than with yours?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Like what have you like what you guys have talked about? Though?
I did find that, you know, you would be doing
those things like clean you know, you look after yourself,
cleaning your room, do your own washing. But quite often
you find that the parent will still be your parent
and they want to start doing those things for you.
And that's when you start kind of butting heads a
little bit, going no, I got it, I've got it,
(23:06):
I've got him. But they still want to be your parents.
They still want to do all those things, which is
all good.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So but yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. That's what I
think if parents listening are listening a Vinie that I
think the thing is a step back, give you more responsibility,
make it more so that it is an incentive for
you to move out, so there's not too much of
an incentive to stay home. I think that's what your
point is, which is really good.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, one percent, because they don't want to be putting
your clothes and your and you're betting into the washing
machine and that's turning brown. That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You good on your Vinnie, Good on you. I appreciate
you all.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Good on you.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Actually, the other thing, it seems if you were going
to have I don't like trying to have a talk
back hour where you come up with with rules or something,
but it's good to have suggestions. But I do think
that one of the things you said as well is
what Vine obviously experienced with his mum, is that when
they do move out, that there's an open door policy.
It's look, you know, we're here if you need us.
We're not here if you just need someone to cook
and clean for you. But if you need if things
(24:05):
go bad, the door is open and you can come
home and regroup and all that. And I think that's
an important part rather than you're on your own kid,
never want to see your back here again. I mean
that to me sounds like a very rare occurrence imagine
and a dysfunctional relationship peraps.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I think no, I don't think it is that rare
because like and even like anyways saying and like we're saying,
if if we keep parenting, if we keep parenting, at
eighteen nineteen twenty year old, clean up your room, do this,
do that in an authoritarian way rather than a bit
more and not completely, but a bit more of an
equal way. Then we are going to start butting heads.
(24:42):
And then what's going to happen is that young person
is starting to really great on us though, really going
to and then we're going to say you need to
get out of my house, or you need to and
then where is the open door to come back? You see?
So sometimes it's the parent who needs to because we
are still the adult, we are still the older one.
We need to sit back a little bit and go
how can I pull back a little bit? And I'm
(25:02):
not going to clean that. I'm not going to cook
them dinner tonight. Talking to a parent the other day
and they're like, I still cook their dinner every night.
I'm like, why would you do that? Just stop cooking it.
She's like, well, I cook dinner for me. I'm like,
if your child isn't cooking dinner for you, if you're
eighteen nineteen year old, isn't cooking the dinner for you,
don't cook dinner for them when they get home. There's
no dinner unless you cook dinner at least twice a week.
(25:24):
I'm not going to include you into my dinner plans,
and that's respectful. When we get to a certain level,
and I think we need to start doing that. That
will reduce the contention and it's more likely they'll move
out in a happy way and then they could come back.
So I think we have to do a little bit
more of that because I quite allowing them independence. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Actually that's interesting because I was thinking there might be
some parents or people who actually like cooking their own food,
you know, like who don't necessarily want their kids to
contribute because they like having control of that aspect of
their life, because the evening meal is something, you know,
is there any sort of halfway house? It's like, listen,
I'm I'm going to I need you to help me
(26:03):
with this, or do this, or at least i'll cock
you do the dishes though, or.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Something like that. Or do you think you're always halfway?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's always always half way.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, there's always halfway. But you what you've got to
stop doing is stop doing everything for your young person
and then resent it and then get angry with them
and then tell them they have to move out. Do
you see what I mean? Like, we actually have to
start saying I don't want to do that. That does
make me annoyed, so I'm going to stop. So but
there's always, and there's and there's some young people like Honestly,
when my daughter was home, she cleaned the place more
(26:34):
than I ever did. She was significantly more organized in
that space. When she moved out, reized how much she did,
she was, Yeah, that's quite the sheets. Love that you
are that you're not going to love that one down.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I wasn't two minds with her to share that. But look,
I was only nineteen years old.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
That it was. It's fantastics, major human to make human.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Actually that's a personality thing though as well.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
So afe.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
For instance, I'm one of my daughters, I'll never have
to worry about her keeping her place clean because she
is naturally a tidy person, Whereas there is another one
and I'm not mentioning names here. Anyone who knows my
kids will work out which is which another one who
is less inclined to worry about those details. But I
tend to think that some of those things are personality traits,
and there are people who go through the whole lives,
(27:26):
lives for whom the last thing they ever want to
do is clean their house, and eventually, when they trip
over a dead rat, they might be or it's time
to get the time to get the vacuum out.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, not one hundred percent, the very personal. It's just again,
I was just talking about this with someone else and
they were the other day and they were talking about
how they'd raise their children. There's something like it's personality.
It's there's so much of it as personality. I've raised
both my kids the same way, and I can promise
you my daughter has a higher tendency to wanting order
and tidiness than my son, you know, And that's just
(27:57):
the personality. But they're both. But then there's the good
things is that like me, I'm not I'm not the
tidiest person, but I'm considerably more flexible. I can handle
things going wrong, I can handle things. I don't need
things quite so orderly. Do you see what I mean?
In my life, which makes me a bit more of
a flexible person. So there's positives and negative about every
(28:17):
part of our relationship, our personality. So one hundred percent,
let's celebrate the good things though we don't all have
to be the same at each other. And that's what
I think. Parents have got to understand what the young
people when they're becoming adults, they're becoming their own people,
and we've got to give them the freedom for that.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Are there, I mean, do you need to actually do
anything to prepare you kids for moving out? Because I mean,
in one breath, we're saying and my mum gave me
some recipes and I probably don't remember enough of the
detail at the time, and she probably gave me a
few hints about I probably quizzed her about you know,
healf and should I obviously didn't ask about alf and
I should wash my suits? But I mean, kids, you're
(29:00):
eighteen nineteen, you're SENTI an adult, you know you've got
half a brain. In a way, do we need to
prepare them at all? Or are there are there emotional
sort of ways of supporting kids which are the most important.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
We should have been doing this all their life, right,
But what we should be doing is, and what I
have a huge thing about, is letting our kids work
things out themselves instead of telling them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Certainly when my kids were younger, and even now with
the chores around the house, with Mason that he contributes
to is I don't tell him what to do. I
give him a list of things and he has to
look around and go that one needs to be done,
This needs to be done. And when they were younger,
so they got some points for unloading the dishwasher, they
got more points for unloading the dishwasher if they hadn't
(29:43):
been asked. Because what our young people need to do
is to be able to predict the futures, to not
predict the future, but look into the future and think
what should I do. Gosh, I have to go shopping
because there's no food in the house and in two
days time, I'm going to need food. What we need
to do is stop telling our kids what to do
and give letting them make more mistakes, especially in those
adolescent years. And that is the biggest thing we can
(30:04):
do to prepare because if you can't cook, it's not
a problem. You can get a cookbook. But if you
can't think, gosh, what's tomorrow? What's dinner tomorrow? Have I
got any food? Or what's coming up? Is work tomorrow?
I've got picture in the car. Those are the things
that are going to get you see trouble.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So sort of things that's that you just if you say,
for instance, you haven't been thought about, you haven't been
taught about preparing for what are you going to eat
during the course of the week. You learn that lesson
pretty quickly, don't you, Because if you're out in your
own then you realize, hell, I'm going to go hungry
at night, and maybe you learn that lesson better because
you've learned it. I mean, it's a question around learning
(30:40):
lessons the hard way.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, but it's definitely a skill in the brain.
Is learning to think forward, what do I need to
do tomorrow that you know, all that sort of stuff,
that predictability and increasing that sort of stuff. It is
a skill and it's one thing that I see parents
doing for their young people. Yeah, significantly in high levels,
do you see what I mean? So if you were
saying what was the one thing we could do, it
(31:03):
wouldn't be to teach them how to cook. It would
to be to teach them how to plan, how to
teach them how to think into the future and work
things out and think about what's going to be needed.
That would be the big thing. And the way we
do that is not doing things for them and saying
what do you think could be done today? What are
some chores that could be done today, instead of saying
doing the washing. Yeah, let them think about that's all.
(31:24):
If you said if there's one skill, that's the skill.
But again, you're exactly right. If they move out, they're
going to learn pretty quickly. But if you've done everything
for them all their life, that's a pretty hard time
to learn when you move out, and it's not really
fair and they're sitting around their brains, so it's going
to they will learn, but it's a pretty hardcore learning space.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Okay, Well, i'd love to hear from you as well,
and when did you move out? But also how did
you prepare you kids to move out at home? And
did you actually have to give them a bit of
a friendly nudge that maybe, honey, maybe it's time for
you to look at getting your own place.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I'd love to hear from you. Oh, eight hundred and
eight ten eighty, it's eighteen and a half minutes to
six news talks. He'd be, it's news talks, he'd be
if you texts here for us, Sir Catherine moved out
at eighteen, went back at twenty properly moved out at
twenty one when we bought a house. Oh well, that's
very grind up, is not it. A twenty one that
was about a month after my sister moved halfway across
the world at eighteen. I imagine it was a rough
(32:18):
month for my parents. Well, yeah, you probably can't really
prepare for having a sort of full house and all
of a sudden empty nest boom.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah. Yeah, And that's one of the things, isn't it.
It's us as the parent having an empty nest, so
we do have to be preparing ourselves as well as
preparing our young people. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Actually, that was almost the bleeding obvious question I ignored
when we were thinking about having a chat today on
the show. But it's the biggest challenge of being an
empty nester because it is a pretty you know, if
you've especially if you've had the household sort of household
where you've had kids and your kids and their friends
around and it's been a lively place and all of
a sudden both and it's just you know, either one
or two of you. I think that must be a
(32:56):
pretty tough adjustment for many people. I know personally, it's
years away from me, but I'm still mildly dreading it anyway.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
And also it's that feeling of being needed and that
feeling of having a responsibility towards someone you adore, you know,
So if you don't have that, and there's other things
going on, so it can be really big. It's a
massive adjustment for some parents. Absolutely. Hi.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
When I moved out of the family home on the
farm to Auckland for a new job at twenty years old,
I didn't know how to cook and how to wash clothes,
shop at the supermarket, et cetera. Just as well, I
moved into friends parents' house who taught me a bit.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Like halfway exparents, we do have to think about it,
we honestly do. We've got to pull back that parenting
a bit and let them do stuff, you know, and
and it's not tough love, it's not being harsh. They
enjoy a lot of that sort of stuff. So yeah,
let's stop parenting when they're really you know, a few
years before they're ready to move out. Let's reduce some
(33:55):
of that overparenting stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I don't want to generalize, but would you would it
be fair to say that girls generally would be better
prepared for moving out than boys. I don't I mean
a gender. You know, generalizations always a little bit tricky,
but I would imagine that boys might be I don't know,
(34:18):
I just being from a family of four boys, I
don't know how we all went, but I just have
this idea that maybe girls intuitively get more organized for
this sort of step.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I mean, this is not a psychologist view, this is
a Catherine Dickett view obviously, But what can often happen,
and I know what can often happen is we expect
the girls to do a lot of the house. We
ask them to do it, and so they're more likely
to have been given those roles and to have lent them.
So that's up to the parent to be open minded
(34:51):
and go, Actually, cooking dinner is going to be both.
You know, all of the kids are going to have
cooking dinner, and yeah, maybe the girl might be more
organized at it or something and the guy might earn something.
But actually you've got to let them do it. So
it's potentially more the gender bias from the adult, yeah,
rather than actual skill base in a neurosciencey way would
(35:13):
be my.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'm imagined that's why I was sort of hesitant
in asking because it was a sort of gut reaction
sort of thing. But I thought, maybe we just it's
just the gender stereotype nonsense. And because now I think
of it, I'm more likely because I can now I
think of it, I can think of sons of friends
of ours who would incredibly independent when they moved out.
So maybe that I just had to raise that point
so I could put.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It to bed. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, my
and my I'm very aware of that, and so it
was always equal. And like I said, my son Cox,
he's just actually made waffles and so there's stuff is
still in the kitchen. He's just made himself waffles and
he does that all the time. He cooks himself and
he's bokoking himself state tonight. So it's all complete independence
on his behalf because I'm not going to parent him
(35:53):
much anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Hey, got time flies, doesn't it. Catherine, Thanks so much
for your time. We'll look forward to catching up again
next time.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Absolutely, thanks so much.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Good stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Where we'll be back with the sports rap. If you've
missed anto that hour and you want to check it out,
go and check out the podcast to the Weekend Collective
on iHeartRadio or the News Talk SEB website. Alex pals
with us to wrap sport next and I think we'll
be having a little bit of a chat about the
impending performance of Liam Lawson in the F One, among
other things. It is eleven minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk,
said by.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Bunny begive firms've been breaking back, just keeping we Jones
is Yau.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
And y'all now go clean it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Supper Yues, welcome back to the Weekend Collective on Tion Beverage.
If we must in the previous hours. You can go
and check out their podcast. Look for the Weekend Collective
or wherever you get your podcasts. But probably the good
starting porter is the News news Talk, said b. I
almost say the New Zealand website, the News Talk, said
b website, or iHeartRadio and check it out, and we
(00:47):
generally get the podcast up pretty quickly after the hour
has concluded. Right, it's time for the Parents Squad, and
we're gonna have a chat about just the question about
how long your kids should could would live at home.
But I think the questions really should how long is
it okay for kids to live it home for? And
are there different circumstances where you might think, well, it's okay,
(01:09):
they're forty three years old, they're still living at home
and that's all fine because we've got a separate granny
flat or something. Or is there a time when actually
in every family is different, So I'm not saying there,
I'm not looking for an answer or somebody to come
up with the iron plaid rule that come the age
of twenty one, you should definitely be out of the house,
or eighteen or whatever. But what is the right time
(01:34):
for your child children to be sort of nudged out
the door or encouraged to go and live somewhere else.
It might even have something to do just just with
the age of the parents as well, whether you've had
children early and you know you want to you're still
young enough and you want to sort of have a
second honeymoon type of existence and you want the kids
out of the house, or maybe it's just for your
(01:55):
kids you think that there's a time when you really
need to encourage them to be more independent, which from
the day they're born. I guess there is always that
gradual growth where you're trying to encourage your kids to
stand on their own two feet, And of course the
moving out is a big one anyway. So we want
your cause on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text
nine nine two. And to join me in that discussion
(02:18):
is neuroscience educator. She's very familiar to us all on
the Appearance Squad and it's Katherine Burkett. Catherine, Hello, how
are you?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm great? Thank you? How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Not too bad now? Because of course are you?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I can't remember exactly where you're at with children being
at home and not at home because they, yours are
a few more years, They've got a few more years
on mine, and at the moment, the idea of my
kids moving out is like a nightmare because I love
having them around, and I.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Don't know, it's it's not about loving having them around.
It it's about their space. But one's moved out. But
I was just actually hanging out with her today, which
is really nice. And my son's eighteen and he's still here,
so definitely in that space of making that decisions. So
it's a good it's a good There's a good question
to start with.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Well, who makes the well your case? I mean, you
may can share as much as you want to or
not about your own family, but how did the decision
come about for your daughter to move out? Because for
many people, if your kids go to a different you know,
a university or tertiary education or something in a different town,
that decision makes itself. But it's you know, renting is expensive,
(03:29):
living is expensive. You want kids to save for a house.
You know, there's the sympetus for people to maybe hang
around home a bit longer, isn't there.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, and you want to I don't know. You don't
want to make it too easy for them to stay
in lots of ways. But my daughter she was going
to move out and then I actually we decided to
move into an apartment in central Wellington, and so she
delayed her moving out for a year. She thought that
would be She negotiated that as a good idea, but
it was her choice to move out, her absolute Yeah,
(03:59):
be independent. She almost moved away. She always moved to
another university just to get away from me and live independent.
But she chose not to and then she chose to stay.
It's just and I think that's really healthy. I don't
take that in any bad way. But I'm not a
mum who's in her pocket anyway sort of thing, So
I think she was all right. But yeah, I mean,
your kids will often make that decision. And if they're
(04:20):
making the decision, then that's significantly easier for adult, isn't it.
I think what you're talking about is when they're holding
on for a little bit longer and you're like, do
I need to push a little bit harder or or not.
I think that's probably where the issues come along.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, because it can be well, it can be a
difficult decision, especially when money comes into play, isn't it,
Because you get young people who are you know, they're
still finding the way, especially if they're students. Is there
I mean not that we're going to come up with
a magic number, but to me, it wouldn't seem depending
(04:57):
on how you are governing the relationship with your kids
once they get to say they're finished school, and whether
they're out in the world force or whether they're a
student or something, I can imagine that there'd be a
truckload of households around the country where kids are still,
you know, living at home simply because they want to
get a little bit further ahead. They're earning for the
first time, they don't want to have to spend everything
(05:19):
on rent and all that. And I can imagine that'd
be quite a common scenario, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So? And you know what, there's no problem if you
believe it's okay for a young person to be at home,
and they are. They're contributing and what because what we
want our young people to do is learn how to
look after themselves, to how if they do move out,
how to look after themselves. So as long as they
are living in your space, and you are respectfully and
(05:46):
slowly pulling away your support of them, so they have
to cook their own dinners at times, they have to
look after themselves. They're doing all their own washing, they're
looking after themselves. Then they're having to start paying some
rent and they're having to do some things to support
you because that's what they are now. They're essentially a
flatmate now, so they should be doing can you a dinner?
Every now and then. As long as you're moving that
(06:09):
locus of you know, sort of responsibility across, then that's
healthy and they could stay there for quite a few
years if you were literally living with your young person
and they're okay there, but it shouldn't be that you're
still being the parent and you're still cooking everything and
cleaning everything and being a parent to them, if you
see what I mean. My relationship with my son has
definitely moved away from me being his parent. Obviously, I'm
(06:31):
still going to do some parenting behaviors towards him. But
well that's what he design not healthy.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That's almost something that it's a tacit it's a tacit
part of the contract in a way that if you're
going to be living on I mean, how many parents
would have said it, you're living under my you're living
under my house, my rules. There's a difficult one once
that could start getting a bit older because and that
is a bit of a leap for a parent to make,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, And so as parents, we have to get ourselves
in the right head space, right, so we're saying do it.
And if you, if you, if they're not doing anything
to pick them out, to ask our young people to leave,
like you said, especially monetarily, are you actually going to
put them into a dangerous, unhealthy situation. So that's really
to be aware. But you can start making things less
(07:18):
easy for them. And what I hear is a lot
of parents are still doing everything and then wondering why
the kids aren't moving House's like, well they need to. Yeah,
they've got it too good, and so let's make it
not so good. And it's not about being mean to them.
It's just increasing their responsibility for themselves and that's healthy.
And if they could move out tomorrow and look after themselves,
(07:39):
that's how I see. I mean, I know my son
could move out tomorrow, he could look after himself. I mean,
I travel a lot, so it's actually quite a good situation.
He's often looking after himself for long periods of time,
so he's you know, I'm not over him, but I
have to also be really careful that when I come back,
I don't go back into a parenting role and then
start being as parents. So that's for the adults to
(07:59):
decide where your role is, and if you can sit
nicely there, it actually reduces the stress, reduce is that
expectation on them, and hopefully it would mean you could
co you know, live because nicely.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Because culturally, I think there probably be some cultures where
extended families are living together for long and their grandparents
in the house, and you can imagine that there would
be a scenario where where if you're living in one
of those sort of cultures where there is much more
of an extended family vibe than kids might actually mind you,
they might be dying to move out actually be honest,
but you can imagine that there would be depending on
(08:36):
different cultures, kids would stick around longer because grandma and
granddad are there, or and that sort of thing. What
would are there signs? Would there be warning signs that
that would give you a sort of a signal that
it's actually not healthy any longer. What would be the
signs that it's not good?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's often the parent whose So I hear a lot
from parents who the young person because our young people,
we're trying to find independence, right, they're trying to be
their independent selves, and as parents were sort of naturally
their parents, so naturally when you're coming home. I remember
coming home from overseas. I've been living overseas for five
years and I stayed with my mum and dad for
six months, and mum was asking where I was. I
(09:19):
was like, I just don't understand this behavior anymore. And
it made me really annoyed that was checking in on me.
So the parent still wants to be the parent, the
child wants to be this independence, So you get this
big clash and then the parent is feeling really angry
and then they're not communicating. Well, that's not healthy, and
that's where I would want to ask, is it time
for them to move out now. If the parent is
(09:41):
feeling unhappy in their own home, especially if the other
one paying the rent, paying the mortgage, looking after the place,
then that's when I would be starting to ask is
it time for them to move out? If the parent
themselves is unhappy in their own home from their young person,
then some decisions need to start being made. Do you
remember when you moved out, no doubt when I was
(10:05):
sixteen seventeen?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, well that you were busting for some independence, were you?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Or is it?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I think a few things happened, but yeah,
moved out quite young, But then we were always quite
independent anyway as young people.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So yeah, we'd love your cause on this. Have you
when did you move out yourselves? But also when it
comes to your kids, how do you manage that step
towards independence? Or manage it if they are actually going
to stay at home for a bit longer, because it's
quite legitimate asn't even Catherine mentioned after traveling overseas sometimes
kid's return home.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I did it.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I mean because I was constantly working over in Australia
and I'd come back and then i'd stay for a
bit at mum and Dad's and I don't funny enough,
I can't really remember too much about exactly when I
was out because I moved away from home when I
went to university, and all of a sudden, you're having
to I think the only the influence that mum had
was giving me some good recipes to cook. But that
(11:03):
happened naturally, because I think that happens a lot with
kids when they decide what whether they're going to you know,
university or how are they going to shift towns, and
that decision often gets made. But if we'd love your
calls on this and how you've navigated the your kids
staying at home and how long was okay and if
they did end up having to be sort of encouraged
to move out, what were the signs that sort of
(11:26):
brought about that situation. We love your calls on this.
On eight hundred eighty ten eighty. I guess the question
is it's also about preparing your kids to move out, isn't.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
It, Catherine Unders And that's what we want. As long
as you think that, just say, for some whatever reason,
tomorrow your young person if they are getting to eighteen
nineteen twenty years old, which is when you would sort
of expect it, and that I'm saying that's when they
should Could they move out tomorrow, know how to cook
for themselves, know how to look after themselves, have the
ability to think forward and plan things and be able
(11:57):
to look at as long as that's there and all honesty.
These days with mortgages and rents, sometimes adults want their
kids to stay there and be contributing to the mortgage.
And if it's working, okay, there is absolutely no problem
with that. If it's healthy for both parties, then there's
no worries. But it's just when it becomes unhealthy, and
like I said, I usually see that with the parent
(12:18):
feeling not wanted, like angry in their own house, and
that's that's not okay. So that's the sort of stuff
I wouldn't want to see. But if there's not that dynamic,
then then it's And if it's working and you're not
over parenting your older child, then no problem with it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, were you when you moved out?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Were you?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Had you been independent to that point? You can relate
that story to your daughter as well. I mean, at
what stage did they start and did your daughter start
cooking meals and sort of getting that rehearsal, because if
I looked to when I went to the university, I
think basically, I mean, I knew how to fry an egg,
and probably poach and egg, and boil and egg and
scramble and egg. It might have been the limits of it,
(12:59):
but instantly, but Mum sent me. I knew how to
do a load of washing. I knew how to make
my bed, change sheets, but pretty much, I don't think
I've done much of it until I moved out, and
it was just a baptism afar. It's like, here's the
recipe for meat loaf, this is what you do, Here's
how long you borel potatoes for. I mean, that's why
they were all those flatting you know, food and all
(13:22):
that sort of stuff. And literally I was following it
from day one, the instructions. But you know, obviously I survived.
But I'm not sure that I was groomed for moving out.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, I guess. And I've always thought that my kids
are a little bit lucky given that I was a
single parent, and I was also running a business when
they were getting older, so I couldn't look after them
all the time, do you know what I mean? So
they had to be independent in some ways. This, you know,
having other stuff to do, not having the time to overparent,
(13:52):
not having time to cook every night meant they had to.
So yeah, my kids are both incredibly able to look
after themselves, mainly because I'm not the I'm not the
most attentive parent, I guess, and a good way. Yeah,
so should you.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I mean there'd be the other school of thought when
people say, well, once my child gets to eighteen, that's
that they have to move out. But pushing the kid
to move out if they don't necessarily aren't quite ready
for it, that's not a great thing necessarily either, because
I mean, I'm not sure if we can generalize too much,
but it does feel that maybe we're not growing up
as quickly as we are, we growing up quicker than
we used to or quick. I can work out the
(14:29):
answer to this, because in many ways I think young
people are immature for longer, but also somehow socially more
sassy and mature earlier. I can't work it out.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
More intentionality is the way I say it. So our
kids are more intentional, they're more aware of things where
we sort of just I don't know about you, but
I sort of just plunged through life. I just did
the next thing. I thought, Oh, I'm going to move out,
and that's that I've moved out. And then suddenly, like
sort of you said, it's like, oh, whats I've moved out?
How do I cook for myself? And how do I
live now? Where the kids are significantly more intentional now,
I think so, you're quite right, it's sort of double
(15:01):
edged sword. But I love it that they're more aware,
the more thinking. But I definitely don't think eighteen move out.
And if they want to, absolutely please let them. You know,
if they're ready to go, even if they're not ready
to go, and they can always come back, you know,
if they think they're ready.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
To go, well, that would be probably the more difficult.
I imagine an obvious one where you've got someone saying
I want to go get my own place, and you
look at where they are in life and in the
house and it's like they've probably never cooked a meal.
You struggle to get them to make their bed, and
next thing they're saying, Mum or Dad, I want to
go and get my own place, and you're like, honey,
you can't even boil an egg.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Let them go let them go one hundred percent. You
just said you only knew how to boil an egg
when you've moved out, Guess what you're learned pretty quickly.
There's the best way to move out, of course, I mean,
as long as they're not completely useless in their mind
for planning and stuff like that. But let them move out,
as long as there's an open door for them to
move back in if they did fail. But let them
(16:01):
move out. There's the best way to learn. Racking how
many people? How any listeners are going? Man, I moved out.
I think my dad tells the funny stories. When he
moved out. All he could eat make was instant puddings,
and so he lived on those old instant puddings that
we used to have. You know. So there's a lot
of people move out unable to do things. But guess
(16:21):
what the best way to learn is is to jem
I would never stop my cat even if I thought
they went ready, I'd be like, yeah, if you go,
I'll just watch from the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
When I went moved out and moved to a halls
of residence, but it was when I went flatting the
year after, and I'm kind of ashamed to share a
couple of stories. I'm very tempted to share about how
often I used to change my sheets. In fact, I
will tell it. It's quite I had a theory this
is how I just didn't have the habit of changing sheets.
(16:52):
And also we had one of those old ringer washing machines,
so it was real. I mean God, when we got
in one of those washing machines that actually spins your sheets,
I thought it was Christmas. But it was a real
choe to do your washing and you had to stand
there and wring them out. And I had a theory
that if I had a shower every night before I
went to bed, I could have the sheets last longer.
(17:13):
So I went a whole I once went a whole term.
And when I when I washed them in that ring
a machine, as soon as I put them in with
the detergent, the water just went brown. And I thought, oh,
I might have left that.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I don't think my fairy stands up right now. Well
you know, but also, Tim, that didn't kill you, do
you see what I mean? Like, seriously, just because our
kids are moving out and maybe not quite ready, it's
it's highly unlikely they're kind of do something that's going
to be really serious. It's just going to be stuff
like that. Oh really, is that really a bad thing? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Possibly, if I've been romantically involved with anyone, they would
have sort of had a shoe out for me. But anyway, look,
we want.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Your call, so I would have to wash them faster
if you've been romantically Ah.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yes, yes, yes, not getting into too much of the
nitty gritty, but look, we discussed when should you move out?
But what do you need to do to prepare your
children to move out? Is there something that they absolutely
must be prepared for or is it like all they
need to I want to move out, mum, dad, see
you later and you go good luck. Or are there
things that you, as a parent would really want to
(18:22):
do for them in preparation for them becoming independent people?
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine
two nine two. We'll be back in just a moment.
Vinnie is up next with Katherinn Burke at twenty five
past five. Is you feeling down to slem make you happy?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Welcome back to the show. That's the Parent Squad. My
guest is Katherine Burkett. She's a neuroscience educator talking about
kids moving out. When is it time to kick him out?
How do you prepare them for it? Do you need
to worry about preparing them for it, because frankly, you
know we're all sentient human beings. We work it out
along the way, don't we. Or are there some useful
things you can do to help your your kids hit
the ground running with their independence so it's a success
(19:03):
rather than an abject failure. And you have at their
door having met your door six months later and tears
saying come and I come home. Oh eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty Vinnie, Hello.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Hey, how are you going all right? Mate?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
How are you doing? O?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Good?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Good?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Thank you very much for having me on. I think
you guys now on the head, to be honest, especially
the part where you're talking about don't make it too
easy for kids living at home, otherwise they won't want
to leave. Now. A lot of my throughout university days
and all that sort of stuff. You know, I was
going to these parties where I'll see my mates living
(19:36):
and you know where they were living. I was going, well,
I don't like the look of this. Looks horrible, to
be honest, and I literally milked us for as long
as they could well into my well, I was, but
he's going into twenty three, yeah, twenty three, you know
throughout my university university days, you know. And I was going, mate,
this is great. I'm living at home. I've got bread
(19:57):
and breakfast. This is fantastic. My laundry is getting done
for me. How good. I can't complain. This is awesome.
And I'm seeing these guys, you know, I'm going to
these flat and stuff and going, oh, this is atrocious.
Is beer bottles all over the floor. It's sticky old
like you know, you feel like you're at a pub.
Your your feet aregat stuck to the floor, and going,
oh god, I'd rather be a mum's house, which you
know there's cleaning going on every every every weekend. So
(20:18):
but I must say what really helped us? And now look,
I must have met for a few nights out. You know,
you're bringing bringing the bringing a lady home after a
night out and and you have to awkwardly, you know,
scooter out the front door, you know, and of one
one two bedroom household in St. Helia's you know, it's
a bit awkward. And that's where I got my mind
(20:39):
going to mind, what are we doing? And anyway, so lucky,
luckily enough, this lady, a lovely lady that I met,
who and I decided to you know, kick things over
and moved to Toronto together. So that was our first,
our first thinking of oh, let's get out of the
house and whatnot. Mind you three months prior to the
pandemic kicked off and going, oh god, what are we
going to do? So we're stuck over in Toronto. I'm going,
(20:59):
what are we going to do when we get back?
You know, trying to make a plan. Going all right,
it can be very difficult to find a job and whatnot,
and so mom's probably kicking us souf, going oh we've
finally got him out of the house. And so you know,
I talked to her. I said, look, would you mind
if my partner and I moved back into your two
bedroom you know, flat and back in Auckland. And she
welcomed us back with open arms because I explained to her.
(21:21):
I was like, look, we've got a plan, you know,
we want to try and save up enough money to
get a deposit for a house together. Rah. So all
I'm going to say is it was fantastic having a
house to fall back on. When we had a plan,
you know that we want to save enough for a
deposit for a house. Yet we pitched in for the
rent for mum because it was a single single parent household.
(21:44):
So you guys are nailed on the head. If you
can come back with your son or your daughter, you know,
can actually pitch in with things like rent and whatever,
like food and all that sort of stuff. I can't
see there's no problem whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
How did the relationship workout? Is it still going strongly Evani?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Or well? I can gladly say she's now my fiance
and we've got a house down here in Wellington now,
which is awesome. So the plan went okay, went off? Yeah,
thank you went really well, so having you know, if
your parents are over minded enough to you know, if
you don't get in my way, you know, if you
help out with the cleaning, if you have up with
the cooking. Yeah, it went well, so well.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
It sounds like you must you must have a good
relationship with your mum as well. But also when you
move back, you did you know, you sort of got permission.
You did what a grown up would do. You didn't
just say hey, hey, mama, moving back. And by the way,
here's whatever your partner's.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Load of washing.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, here's a load of washing. And here's my girlfriend.
Can you squeeze her her small than with yours?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Like what have you like what you guys have talked about? Though?
I did find that, you know, you would be doing
those things like clean you know, you look after yourself,
cleaning your room, do your own washing. But quite often
you find that the parent will still be your parent
and they want to start doing those things for you.
And that's when you start kind of butting heads a
little bit, going no, I got it, I've got it,
(23:06):
I've got him. But they still want to be your parents.
They still want to do all those things, which is
all good.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
So but yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. That's what I
think if parents listening are listening a Vinie that I
think the thing is a step back, give you more responsibility,
make it more so that it is an incentive for
you to move out, so there's not too much of
an incentive to stay home. I think that's what your
point is, which is really good.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, one percent, because they don't want to be putting
your clothes and your and you're betting into the washing
machine and that's turning brown. That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You good on your Vinnie, Good on you. I appreciate
you all.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Good on you.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Actually, the other thing, it seems if you were going
to have I don't like trying to have a talk
back hour where you come up with with rules or something,
but it's good to have suggestions. But I do think
that one of the things you said as well is
what Vine obviously experienced with his mum, is that when
they do move out, that there's an open door policy.
It's look, you know, we're here if you need us.
We're not here if you just need someone to cook
and clean for you. But if you need if things
(24:05):
go bad, the door is open and you can come
home and regroup and all that. And I think that's
an important part rather than you're on your own kid,
never want to see your back here again. I mean
that to me sounds like a very rare occurrence imagine
and a dysfunctional relationship peraps.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I think no, I don't think it is that rare
because like and even like anyways saying and like we're saying,
if if we keep parenting, if we keep parenting, at
eighteen nineteen twenty year old, clean up your room, do this,
do that in an authoritarian way rather than a bit
more and not completely, but a bit more of an
equal way. Then we are going to start butting heads.
(24:42):
And then what's going to happen is that young person
is starting to really great on us though, really going
to and then we're going to say you need to
get out of my house, or you need to and
then where is the open door to come back? You see?
So sometimes it's the parent who needs to because we
are still the adult, we are still the older one.
We need to sit back a little bit and go
how can I pull back a little bit? And I'm
(25:02):
not going to clean that. I'm not going to cook
them dinner tonight. Talking to a parent the other day
and they're like, I still cook their dinner every night.
I'm like, why would you do that? Just stop cooking it.
She's like, well, I cook dinner for me. I'm like,
if your child isn't cooking dinner for you, if you're
eighteen nineteen year old, isn't cooking the dinner for you,
don't cook dinner for them when they get home. There's
no dinner unless you cook dinner at least twice a week.
(25:24):
I'm not going to include you into my dinner plans,
and that's respectful. When we get to a certain level,
and I think we need to start doing that. That
will reduce the contention and it's more likely they'll move
out in a happy way and then they could come back.
So I think we have to do a little bit
more of that because I quite allowing them independence. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Actually that's interesting because I was thinking there might be
some parents or people who actually like cooking their own food,
you know, like who don't necessarily want their kids to
contribute because they like having control of that aspect of
their life, because the evening meal is something, you know,
is there any sort of halfway house? It's like, listen,
I'm I'm going to I need you to help me
(26:03):
with this, or do this, or at least i'll cock
you do the dishes though, or.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Something like that. Or do you think you're always halfway?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's always always half way.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, there's always halfway. But you what you've got to
stop doing is stop doing everything for your young person
and then resent it and then get angry with them
and then tell them they have to move out. Do
you see what I mean? Like, we actually have to
start saying I don't want to do that. That does
make me annoyed, so I'm going to stop. So but
there's always, and there's and there's some young people like Honestly,
when my daughter was home, she cleaned the place more
(26:34):
than I ever did. She was significantly more organized in
that space. When she moved out, reized how much she did,
she was, Yeah, that's quite the sheets. Love that you
are that you're not going to love that one down.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I wasn't two minds with her to share that. But look,
I was only nineteen years old.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
That it was. It's fantastics, major human to make human.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Actually that's a personality thing though as well.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
So afe.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
For instance, I'm one of my daughters, I'll never have
to worry about her keeping her place clean because she
is naturally a tidy person, Whereas there is another one
and I'm not mentioning names here. Anyone who knows my
kids will work out which is which another one who
is less inclined to worry about those details. But I
tend to think that some of those things are personality traits,
and there are people who go through the whole lives,
(27:26):
lives for whom the last thing they ever want to
do is clean their house, and eventually, when they trip
over a dead rat, they might be or it's time
to get the time to get the vacuum out.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, not one hundred percent, the very personal. It's just again,
I was just talking about this with someone else and
they were the other day and they were talking about
how they'd raise their children. There's something like it's personality.
It's there's so much of it as personality. I've raised
both my kids the same way, and I can promise
you my daughter has a higher tendency to wanting order
and tidiness than my son, you know, And that's just
(27:57):
the personality. But they're both. But then there's the good
things is that like me, I'm not I'm not the
tidiest person, but I'm considerably more flexible. I can handle
things going wrong, I can handle things. I don't need
things quite so orderly. Do you see what I mean?
In my life, which makes me a bit more of
a flexible person. So there's positives and negative about every
(28:17):
part of our relationship, our personality. So one hundred percent,
let's celebrate the good things though we don't all have
to be the same at each other. And that's what
I think. Parents have got to understand what the young
people when they're becoming adults, they're becoming their own people,
and we've got to give them the freedom for that.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Are there, I mean, do you need to actually do
anything to prepare you kids for moving out? Because I mean,
in one breath, we're saying and my mum gave me
some recipes and I probably don't remember enough of the
detail at the time, and she probably gave me a
few hints about I probably quizzed her about you know,
healf and should I obviously didn't ask about alf and
I should wash my suits? But I mean, kids, you're
(29:00):
eighteen nineteen, you're SENTI an adult, you know you've got
half a brain. In a way, do we need to
prepare them at all? Or are there are there emotional
sort of ways of supporting kids which are the most important.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
We should have been doing this all their life, right,
But what we should be doing is, and what I
have a huge thing about, is letting our kids work
things out themselves instead of telling them.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Certainly when my kids were younger, and even now with
the chores around the house, with Mason that he contributes
to is I don't tell him what to do. I
give him a list of things and he has to
look around and go that one needs to be done,
This needs to be done. And when they were younger,
so they got some points for unloading the dishwasher, they
got more points for unloading the dishwasher if they hadn't
(29:43):
been asked. Because what our young people need to do
is to be able to predict the futures, to not
predict the future, but look into the future and think
what should I do. Gosh, I have to go shopping
because there's no food in the house and in two
days time, I'm going to need food. What we need
to do is stop telling our kids what to do
and give letting them make more mistakes, especially in those
adolescent years. And that is the biggest thing we can
(30:04):
do to prepare because if you can't cook, it's not
a problem. You can get a cookbook. But if you
can't think, gosh, what's tomorrow? What's dinner tomorrow? Have I
got any food? Or what's coming up? Is work tomorrow?
I've got picture in the car. Those are the things
that are going to get you see trouble.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So sort of things that's that you just if you say,
for instance, you haven't been thought about, you haven't been
taught about preparing for what are you going to eat
during the course of the week. You learn that lesson
pretty quickly, don't you, Because if you're out in your
own then you realize, hell, I'm going to go hungry
at night, and maybe you learn that lesson better because
you've learned it. I mean, it's a question around learning
(30:40):
lessons the hard way.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, but it's definitely a skill in the brain.
Is learning to think forward, what do I need to
do tomorrow that you know, all that sort of stuff,
that predictability and increasing that sort of stuff. It is
a skill and it's one thing that I see parents
doing for their young people. Yeah, significantly in high levels,
do you see what I mean? So if you were
saying what was the one thing we could do, it
(31:03):
wouldn't be to teach them how to cook. It would
to be to teach them how to plan, how to
teach them how to think into the future and work
things out and think about what's going to be needed.
That would be the big thing. And the way we
do that is not doing things for them and saying
what do you think could be done today? What are
some chores that could be done today, instead of saying
doing the washing. Yeah, let them think about that's all.
(31:24):
If you said if there's one skill, that's the skill.
But again, you're exactly right. If they move out, they're
going to learn pretty quickly. But if you've done everything
for them all their life, that's a pretty hard time
to learn when you move out, and it's not really
fair and they're sitting around their brains, so it's going
to they will learn, but it's a pretty hardcore learning space.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Okay, Well, i'd love to hear from you as well,
and when did you move out? But also how did
you prepare you kids to move out at home? And
did you actually have to give them a bit of
a friendly nudge that maybe, honey, maybe it's time for
you to look at getting your own place.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I'd love to hear from you. Oh, eight hundred and
eight ten eighty, it's eighteen and a half minutes to
six news talks. He'd be, it's news talks, he'd be
if you texts here for us, Sir Catherine moved out
at eighteen, went back at twenty properly moved out at
twenty one when we bought a house. Oh well, that's
very grind up, is not it. A twenty one that
was about a month after my sister moved halfway across
the world at eighteen. I imagine it was a rough
(32:18):
month for my parents. Well, yeah, you probably can't really
prepare for having a sort of full house and all
of a sudden empty nest boom.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah. Yeah, And that's one of the things, isn't it.
It's us as the parent having an empty nest, so
we do have to be preparing ourselves as well as
preparing our young people. Right.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Actually, that was almost the bleeding obvious question I ignored
when we were thinking about having a chat today on
the show. But it's the biggest challenge of being an
empty nester because it is a pretty you know, if
you've especially if you've had the household sort of household
where you've had kids and your kids and their friends
around and it's been a lively place and all of
a sudden both and it's just you know, either one
or two of you. I think that must be a
(32:56):
pretty tough adjustment for many people. I know personally, it's
years away from me, but I'm still mildly dreading it anyway.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
And also it's that feeling of being needed and that
feeling of having a responsibility towards someone you adore, you know,
So if you don't have that, and there's other things
going on, so it can be really big. It's a
massive adjustment for some parents. Absolutely. Hi.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
When I moved out of the family home on the
farm to Auckland for a new job at twenty years old,
I didn't know how to cook and how to wash clothes,
shop at the supermarket, et cetera. Just as well, I
moved into friends parents' house who taught me a bit.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Like halfway exparents, we do have to think about it,
we honestly do. We've got to pull back that parenting
a bit and let them do stuff, you know, and
and it's not tough love, it's not being harsh. They
enjoy a lot of that sort of stuff. So yeah,
let's stop parenting when they're really you know, a few
years before they're ready to move out. Let's reduce some
(33:55):
of that overparenting stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I don't want to generalize, but would you would it
be fair to say that girls generally would be better
prepared for moving out than boys. I don't I mean
a gender. You know, generalizations always a little bit tricky,
but I would imagine that boys might be I don't know,
(34:18):
I just being from a family of four boys, I
don't know how we all went, but I just have
this idea that maybe girls intuitively get more organized for
this sort of step.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I mean, this is not a psychologist view, this is
a Catherine Dickett view obviously, But what can often happen,
and I know what can often happen is we expect
the girls to do a lot of the house. We
ask them to do it, and so they're more likely
to have been given those roles and to have lent them.
So that's up to the parent to be open minded
(34:51):
and go, Actually, cooking dinner is going to be both.
You know, all of the kids are going to have
cooking dinner, and yeah, maybe the girl might be more
organized at it or something and the guy might earn something.
But actually you've got to let them do it. So
it's potentially more the gender bias from the adult, yeah,
rather than actual skill base in a neurosciencey way would
(35:13):
be my.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I'm imagined that's why I was sort of hesitant
in asking because it was a sort of gut reaction
sort of thing. But I thought, maybe we just it's
just the gender stereotype nonsense. And because now I think
of it, I'm more likely because I can now I
think of it, I can think of sons of friends
of ours who would incredibly independent when they moved out.
So maybe that I just had to raise that point
so I could put.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It to bed. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, my
and my I'm very aware of that, and so it
was always equal. And like I said, my son Cox,
he's just actually made waffles and so there's stuff is
still in the kitchen. He's just made himself waffles and
he does that all the time. He cooks himself and
he's bokoking himself state tonight. So it's all complete independence
on his behalf because I'm not going to parent him
(35:53):
much anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Hey, got time flies, doesn't it. Catherine, Thanks so much
for your time. We'll look forward to catching up again
next time.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Absolutely, thanks so much.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Good stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Where we'll be back with the sports rap. If you've
missed anto that hour and you want to check it out,
go and check out the podcast to the Weekend Collective
on iHeartRadio or the News Talk SEB website. Alex pals
with us to wrap sport next and I think we'll
be having a little bit of a chat about the
impending performance of Liam Lawson in the F One, among
other things. It is eleven minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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