Full Show Podcast: 22 September 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkins and Wickles for the.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Best selection of great Reads. News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning, this is a Sunday Session. I'm Francesca Rudkin
with you until midday. News Talks edb's voice of Rugby,
Elliott Smith, is with us shortly from Sydney to talk
about the All Blacks Missus Wallaby game last night. I
started off well, turned into a bit of a rollercoaster,
didn't it. Also on the show today, TV host and
author Richard Osman joins us to talk about his best

(00:50):
selling book series The Thursday Murder Club and its adaptation
by Netflix, and we find out more about his brand
new book series We Sold Murders. Such good Company. Richard
Osman will be with us after ten. After eleven, doctor
Tony Fernardo joins us to talk about his fascinating life
as a psychiatrist, a sleep specialist, and a former Buddhist monk.

(01:11):
Tony has been incorporating the Buddha's teaching into his own
life and work, and he's written a book to help
us all find some calm and content in this chaotic world.
It's called Life Hacks from the Buddha. So Tony is
with us after eleven and as always, you're most welcome
to text anytime throughout the morning. On ninety two, ninety.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Two the Sunday session, So it was great to see
the fun Police did not win this week and really
cool to see it was partly driven by primary school
kids who stood up for the New Zealand way of life.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
And yes I am talking about the right to jump
off a jetty. The Tasman District Council has had to
reword a proposed by law which would have inadvertently band
swimming or diving off warps and jetties, following a ground
spell of objections, including from Lake Lo to Easy Student
school students. The children pointed out how a band would

(02:05):
crush people's happiness and the fun they had together. They
also questioned who would enforce the law and my favorite complaint,
it was simply a very dumb idea Lake wrote to
Etes School Principal Mike allen Bacter's students, making the point
that the jetty jump was a picturesque tourist hotspot, and
that he was appalled by the idea of regulating a
New Zealand tradition and rite of passage. And I couldn't

(02:25):
agree more. There is much we're not allowed to do
these days. We've become more protective of our children, focusing
on what may go wrong rather than learning by living.
Sure you need to use some common sense. Jetty and
wolf jumpers shouldn't be flying off in front of boats
or jumping at busy times, and there needs to be
a good understanding between everyone using the jetty. But surely

(02:46):
jumping off stuff is part of being a Kiwi. My
memories of growing up in New Zealander philled with making
the most of what this gorgeous country has to offer
for free. We've spent days walking in national parks, playing
in serf, jumping off whatever we could, picnicking at reserves.
It's a joyful, wholesome way to kill a weekend with

(03:06):
family and friends, and it's what we've continued to do
with our kids. If we near a jetty and the
water is deep and clear and safe and we're not
in the way of boats, we jump, and jumping isn't
just for kids. As we grow up, we tick off
all those growing up milestones, find a partner, buy a house,
have kids, and somewhere along the way we stop playing.

(03:27):
We forget that it's perfectly fine for adults to enjoy
the fun stuff in life like kids do. I've always
enjoyed jumping off things, but never as much as doing
it with my kids. The cool thing about jumping off
a wall for a jetty is it creates a level
playing field. We all share the experience. It's fun, exhilarating,
and at times terrifying. I've gently encouraged my kids to
jump off all sorts of things, and as they've grown,

(03:50):
they have returned the favor, with the challenges getting higher
and scarier. Not everyone likes the common sense approach around
is shoes like this. Some like the idea of regulation,
and I can understand the councilors probably trying to tick
off a potential health and safety concern. I can understand
why this would make things easier for boaties, but everyone

(04:10):
should be able to have fun at a lake. So
while some may like to wrap everything up in a
rule or regulation, I'm glad kids and adults can continue
to legally and simply have some fun in the stunning
Nelson Lakes district this summer. As an added bonus, some
youngsters have learned how to make a submission to a
council a nice Civix lesson right there, I'm heading to

(04:32):
the Nelson Lakes area for some hiking late November. I
am going to take a moment when there are no
boats around to launch myself off the lake. Wrote to
Eaty Jetty, I'm going to love every minute of.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
It the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Look, maybe you're a boaty and you feel differently about this.
There might be some hot spots where this is a
real problem around the country, the sharing of jetties and wharves.
You know, maybe it is a serious health and safety
issue where you spend time on the water. But regardless
of where we are and how we're having fun on
the water, being aware, considering cautious is always required. Regulations
or not right, fun should still be allowed. So keen

(05:07):
to hear your thoughts on that. Ninety two ninety two
up next. The Prime Minister has indicated the Coalition government
plans to propose a referendum for a four year term
in twenty twenty six, know how you'd vote King for
a four year term. We discuss this next It's at
twelve past nine.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
Grab a cover.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wikles for
the best selection of great readings used Talks'd be.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Coming up in just a moment. Elliot Smith and his
thoughts on the All Blacks Wallabies game last night. But
right now New Zealanders may get their chance to vote
on extending the political cycle at the next election. Speaking
at an event on Friday, Prime Minister Christopher Luxen said
the coalition government planned to propose a referendum for four
year terms in twenty twenty six. To talk us through

(05:57):
the pros and cons of a four year electoral cycle.
I am joined by constitutional law expert Graham Edgeler. Good morning, Graham,
thanks for your time, Good morning.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Is this a good call by Christopher Lexan.

Speaker 7 (06:10):
I think it's fine to have a vote on it.
We've public's had two votes on it before, once in
nineteen sixty seven and once again in nineteen ninety. We're
about both times. Two thirds of us said no, we
like the three year turn. But yeah, I wasn't old
enough to it. Nineteen ninety and very few of us
are probably old enough to vote nineteen sixty seven, So yeah,

(06:31):
why not have another say.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Let's start with why you might look at, you know,
going to four years, Why should you do it? Because
there are pros and cons for this argument? What are
the pros for going to four years?

Speaker 7 (06:46):
The suggestion there's been a suggestion a few times, for example,
that we should increase the length of time that our
councilors are elected as well. Yeah, I think probably good idea.
If we're doing that thing, we should do the same
for the parliamentary election. But the big suggestion is that
it'll just sort of slow things down in parliament a little,

(07:08):
that they'll be able to take more time, they won't
have to rush things quite so much, and you know,
maybe they'll get better laws out of at the end.
So there's a question of whether that's true. But that's
the argument most people make, and there's probably something in that.
But the question is is it big enough for to
outweigh the consequences.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Would it give governments more time to fulfill their agenda
that they campaigned on.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (07:40):
I mean, if you look at sort of the history
of New Zealand. We don't have very many one term governments. Yeah, yeah,
In fact, we don't even have very many two term governments.
You know, the last Labor government was two term government.
The nineteen eighties Labor government was two term government. But
that's sort of the only time we've even had a

(08:01):
two term government. Most governments we either kicked them out
after three three years or we kick them out after
three terms. That's just sort of historically how it's been
with those couple of exceptions. Now, and so they get
you know, they get re elected, you should quite often
with more votes the second home round then they got

(08:22):
the first time, and you sort of certainly had that
with Labor and de cinder Adern they got six years
to implement their policies and the last National government had
nine years to do it. And so it might even
be useful saying if they sort of take take a
term and have an election in the middle where things
can slow down even more and make sure is that

(08:43):
the way we want to be gone.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
It can feel a little bit Graham, can't it like
the electoral cycle, the sort of the cyclers for the
first year, they're getting their feet under the under the
desk they're working out what's going on, they're identifying problems,
they're changing things. They move forward at a great pace,
and then they try and kind of activate that in
the second year, and then it feels like the third
year is just becoming a year of electioneering.

Speaker 7 (09:08):
It can, I mean's certainly parliament slightly less an election year,
but the first two years it really is sort of
sitting the same number of days, whether they're getting their
feed under the table or not. And of course, you know,
if a government gets re elected, you know, you'd hope
sort of at least most of the ministers will stay
the same and things will be able to continue going on,

(09:30):
and so that that sort of a question as well.
It's do we sort of these really big changes. Do
we want them to do it in a year or
even two Maybe sort of the three or four years
over the course of two terms might be a way
to go. But equally, you know, four years is quite
standard internationally three years. There are a few Australias three years,

(09:51):
and most of the states of Australia are three years,
but three years is internationally low as certain would.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
It encourage longer, longer term bipartisan decisions? This is one
of the pros that the Prime Minister has suggested.

Speaker 7 (10:09):
I doubt it that sort of when you sort of
look at these sorts of things, that the other things
that come into play are probably more important than the
term of parliament. It will be a little thing right
at the edge maybe of you know, this one case
or this other case equally out. You know, you know,

(10:31):
the last government we had had you know, Labor was
had the votes by itself and I didn't really need
to do much bipartisan I think at all. You know,
the current government, you know, it needs National and Acting
New Zealand first if they want to pass anything, and
well you know it's they all have to agree. And
so trying to sort of bring Labor in on something

(10:54):
where you Act doesn't agree and National wants to do
it anyway and get Labor support. I don't know that
four years would make that more likely. It's you know,
our political system as such that you know sort of
that's not really how we operate. And if you changed
a lot of things and then waited twenty years and
see how they play out, I could imagine something like

(11:15):
that moving towards that direction. But sort of the way
New Zealand's government is set up overall, it's probably more
important for questions like that. You know, we have a
very strong whip for example. You know, we don't have
sort of you know, MPs who exercise their own judgment
in the way that s the MPs in the United

(11:35):
Kingdom do, where the government can't guarantee that it's going
to get support from its own MPs for a lot
of its policies. And you had that with a lot
of things like during Brixit. You know, you had in
the UK with their first past the post, a local
would get elected and then the form sort of groups
and make up their mind issue by issue, and they'd
be like, oh, no, these are the important things that

(11:56):
we're definitely going to vote for. But there would be
a large other bits where it's like a vert for that,
but I want you to make this change and sort
of independent, not officially independent, but sort of more MPs.
And then we have in New Zealand where every MP
from the National Party will vote for or against everything,
and we have very few things where independent or MPs

(12:18):
make up their minds sort of separately.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Frequent elections, they act does a democratic check on the
government don't they I wonder.

Speaker 7 (12:26):
If absolutely yeah, and that's sorry. There you go, and
that's sort of one of the issues. You know, there's
lots of different ways that you can set up a government,
lots of different ways you could even set up a democracy.
You're asking the question, you know, how much power should
the government have versus how much power should should parliament have?
And then you ask the question how much power should

(12:48):
the courts have, like in the US, where the courts
have a lot more power than the courts having New
Zealand or versus how much power should parliament have? And
sort of in New Zealand. Every time we've asked that question,
we say, the answer we seem to give is okay,
we're going to give the government and you know, the cabinet,
they're going to have all the power they're going to
decide rebuild. It just about gets passed in parliament, you know,

(13:10):
members days were the only exception. Everything else is whatever
the government wants to do is not only what passes,
it's even what's debated. And so we do have the
issue of every time we ask the question, which of
these two things that you know, a democracy could have
this or it could have this it could have a
low number of MPs, it can have a written constitution,
it could have an upper House. And you know, we've

(13:30):
probably got the right answer for all or almost all
of those questions. For a country like New Zealand, we
don't need an upper house, who horribly don't need a
written constitution, But we do have the issue of every
time we ask that question of which of these two options,
which are both perfectly legitimate and democracy, do we pick,
we almost pick the one which gives the government more
power and parliament less, or the government more power and

(13:52):
voters less or the government more power and.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
The courts less.

Speaker 7 (13:56):
And sort of every time we ask those questions, we say,
let's give extra power to the government. Let's give extra
power to the government, and never accept this one time.
Let's give a little more power to the voters. If
you were to change a lot of things, you know,
sort of a few years back, someone we should have
written constitution that should do change all of these things.
If you were to change your half a dozen things,

(14:18):
there may be if you're changing the votings term you know,
to four years as well, that would be sort of enough.
But the three year term is sort of the one time,
we said, actually, voters should have the power. You know,
of these two choices, which way should we set up
our system, we should give it to voters and have
them have the power. And so if you're changing a
lot of things, you know, have more MPs so that

(14:40):
they could hold the government to account in a way
that you know, because we don't have very many MP's
at the moment.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
They can't.

Speaker 7 (14:45):
And like do we need three hundred mpce probably not.
But if you're going to say, you know, we want
we want to take some power away from voters, then
what are you proposing to say? Okay, well change this
other bit as well, so that the balance sort of
stays the same or even gets better.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
A lot more complicated than just a yes or a no.
Grain thank you so much for talking us through that.
Nice to hear from you. I would love to hear
from you. Which way you'd vote for or against a
four year election cycle? Does it appeal to you or not?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Right, the All Blacks have retained the Bladers like Cup
a thrilling finish to the match, holding on to win
thirty one twenty eight. The last twenty minutes is proving
an issue though, isn't it as z b Rugby commentator
Elliot Smith joins me now from Sydney.

Speaker 8 (15:37):
Good morning, Good morning friendch Esciff.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
So my mother text me at about six seventeen last
night and she said, well, this is a much more
relaxing game to watch. So I text her back at
seven forty three with thirteen All Blacks on the field
that I asked her, that's still relaxing and she said no,
So how are you feeling, Elliott? With about ten minutes
to play? What a comeback?

Speaker 9 (15:58):
Oh look, incredible rollercoaster of a game. And this seems
to be what the All Blacks are getting ourselves into
for fans. Comment is in spectators watching it's it's a
rollercoaster at the moment because they really should have shut
out the Wallabies and beating them convincingly. The game should
have been done and dusted. Really by halftime we should

(16:19):
have been quibbling over you know how many points the
All Blacks won by and that really should have been
the only thing to worry about in the second half.
But they left the door a jarb before the halftime
break for Australia after that great start got out twenty
one twenty eight to seven, Australia got back into the contest.
One of the tries particularly easy that Australia scored, and
the door was just a jar at halftime.

Speaker 8 (16:40):
There are a few issues before the halftime.

Speaker 9 (16:42):
Break around the All Blacks not creating, sorry taking enough
of the opportunities they created, and that problem got exacerbated
after halftime. They created more opportunities after the break, but
the final finish just wasn't good enough. There were errors,
there were passes that went Australia shouldn't have been thrown,
and then they got themselves into a little bit of
a hole and all of a sudden, you know, thirty

(17:03):
one to fourteen lead became thirty one twenty one, but
it felt a lot closer. And then obviously the yellow
cards didn't help as well, close right up to a
three point game. If the game had gone really another
five minutes, the Wallabies might well have won that match.
So the All Blacks dug themselves a whole, couldn't get
out of it. We should be talking this morning about
an All Blacks win, probably in the vicinity of forty

(17:24):
to fifty points instead of won the match, escaped taking
the Blurerslow Cup, but it doesn't really feel like a
Blurtererslow Cup worthy winning victory, does it?

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Not so much. They've failed to score in the final
twenty of any match in the Rugby Championship. Their ability
to finish strongly is a big issue. Is that the bench?
Is it, fitness?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
What is it?

Speaker 9 (17:46):
I think it's a combination of things. I think it's
around the game management. They're certainly not getting what they
want out of the bench. The starter is being you know,
setting up the platform for the finishes, and they're not
quite delivering.

Speaker 8 (18:00):
Off the bench.

Speaker 9 (18:01):
And I think that goes around some of the game
management and some of the senior players give themselves into
the right area of the park and that should be
where you know, players like Damian McKenzie should be taking
the game by the scruff of the neck inside the
final twenty, directing the team around the park.

Speaker 8 (18:17):
That's a big work on for Damian.

Speaker 9 (18:19):
We probably didn't see it again last night, and that
schoolboard pressure just evaporated that the All Blacks had as
the second half went on. They didn't get themselves into
the right areas of the park. They created opportunities, but
they weren't able to finish them. And I think if
you have scoreboard pressure, then that creates pressure obviously on
the opposition. The All Blacks weren't able to do that.

(18:39):
They only got three points in the second spell. So
that problem, you know, was exacerbated again last night. And
whatever they seemed to tinker with, whatever they seemed to change,
just doesn't seem to be able to deliver the rewards.
They seem to find themselves in strife. However the game
shakes out. You can pretty much guarantee that they might

(19:00):
have had the run of thing for sixty minutes, but
as soon as that clock takes over, they're battling. So
it's a major issue for this All Blacks team because
while it might have got them win yesterday, it didn't
and Johannesburg didn't in Cape Town, and it certainly won't
be good enough and twicking him in Dublin or in
Paris later on.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Where did the All Blacks excel? Did anyone excite you?

Speaker 8 (19:20):
Oh?

Speaker 9 (19:21):
Look, I thought Cortez Rata halfback was exceptional. A lot
of staving runs, Yeah he was. He was very very good.
Unfortunate not to finish what we would have been a
pretty spectacular try end to end from the All Blacks.
But he was just everywhere around the park around great
support lines, putting some great hits on defense as well,
one on Marika caught and Betsy which is a small

(19:43):
man on big man that he can be particularly proud of.
So he's really improving week to week and is making
your repost to winners since he came into the All
Blacks and especially since he was given the starting role
Wallas Ta Tis, he continues to improve across the course
of the games he's getting as well. He looks like
a you know everyone's saying a player for the future,

(20:04):
fears like a player for this moment right now that
the All Blacks need, and two po buying Cody Taylor
and Pressed as well. And really those are the four
players that are also impressed on their tour of South Africa.
It's those sort of players standing up again. So just
needs more from the entire fifteen and twenty three, but
that quartet were impressive again, Elliott.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
After the first few All Blacks games under Scott Robinson,
commentator said they couldn't really see Robinson's impact on the
All Blacks yet, can we now?

Speaker 9 (20:33):
Well, we saw a lot of attack during that game
and a lot of free flowing rug beat At times,
we're beginning to see parts of it. I think we
haven't seen the full game plan. I think that's where
the frustrations probably lie, is that we saw Scott Robinson's
crusader side, and it's an easy comparison to make, but
they were absolutely ruthless. Whenever they got an opportunity, nine

(20:58):
times out of ten they would finish an opportunity for
a try scoring movement. They put on pressure when they
got into the opposition twenty t to put on a
lot of pressure of the year and turn that into points
more often than not. What we're not seeing at All
Blacks level is that translating they were ruthless his crusader
sides at super rugby level that was good enough to
win them seven state championships. But at Test level, the

(21:20):
margins are so much more finer that we're not seeing.
Perhaps the game plan implements it. I know there's a
bit of frustration they haven't been able to do it.
You know, there's a bit of a glass half full
approach from the All Blacks last night when they spoke
to media. But the margins are so thin and Test
level that you've got to take every opportunity given to
you and probably just not seeing that yet from Scott

(21:41):
Robertson on both sides of the ball, attack and defense.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Obviously we've got another Test against Australia this coming Saturday,
but then we've got this end of year tour. Is
this a good challenge for the All Blacks these games?

Speaker 8 (21:52):
I think so?

Speaker 9 (21:53):
Look, you know the six more games to go this year.
Next week in Wellington hasn't been a happy hunting ground
for them recently, but perhaps a chance to just make
a few tweaks and see a bit more of the
players that we haven't seen so far this season, test
out some new combinations and then the inter of view
too is going to be really fascinating and it all
centers around a big three week block where Bill Blacks

(22:14):
go from twicken into a Viva Stadium in Dublin to
start de France in three really tough tests. It's going
to be interesting to see what kind of SPoD Scott
Robertson selects. Does he go bigger and select a more
expanded squad and perhaps try some unproven players, which is
what All Blacks coaches have done in the past with
five Test matches in five weeks. Look to learn a

(22:35):
bit more about some younger players. But the All Blacks
you know at this point in time, you know, the
one the Blater's Low Cup.

Speaker 8 (22:41):
They've got another test next week.

Speaker 9 (22:42):
But there's some big matches to come this year and
there's a lot to learn about some of these players
in this All Blacks environment and especially where they go
to the in the past of twenty twenty seven. A
lot of the players you know, t Depettarra, Sam Kaine
will finish up their All Blacks careers this year.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
It's not immediately obvious who the success that there.

Speaker 9 (22:58):
Sam Kaine is an open side flanker either, so there
are some real questions to be answered towards the back
end of this All Black seas around selection, around game planer,
around you know, how they All Blacks set themselves up,
not only for twenty twenty seven, but from some big
challenges to come over the next couple of years too.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Elliott Smith, as always, thank you so much for your time.
Cheers Francisco, And as I mentioned, they're the next games
against Australia and Wellington on Saturday, cack off at seven pm.
It's twenty seven to ten News Talks ATB.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks ATB.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Thanks for your texts regarding four year terms. Chris tex
To say, personally think four years three too short for
big policy results, show five too long if they're screwing
the country. Joining us now is New Zealand Held Deputy
Political Editor Thomas Coughlin. Good morning, Thomas, good morning. How
would you feel about a four year term?

Speaker 10 (23:58):
A lot ready for me to take a view, And
I certainly the merits of a four year term have
been articulated quite convincingly by politicians the last few years.
But at the same time, you know that they often
complain about the fact that that three years is too
short to get anything substantive done, and you know, you
do see a bit of that. But but but on

(24:18):
the other hand, you know that they have a uniicameral parliament.
They can really do whatever they like with that parliament.
I mean, you saw this week the government wanted a
late addition to this Gang's Bill, which which which brushed
up against some pretty serious human rights concerns. So they
brought aback a bill back from the final stage quarterback
to committee stage, immun is it in committee stage and

(24:39):
passed it all within a couple of days. You know
that they have a lot of advantages that those other leges,
which has happened how the Americans have four years, but
obviously they've got a completely divide of political system, so
they sort of meant it, whereas in New Zealand you
could you could change the whole country in a couple
of hours if you wanted to, with the power that
that that our parliament has. So I think there are

(25:01):
questions around giving giving politicians another year of that you
have fairly unbridled power, whether they whether they really need it,
whether they should just use this the three years that
they've already got.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Better, Just work better, that's what you're saying, Thomas, better,
Just work better better. Do you have a feeling? But
do you think though in New Zealanders are ready for
this refune? Are open to the conversation?

Speaker 8 (25:28):
Hard to know.

Speaker 10 (25:29):
I haven't seen any recent polling on it. I think
it's gone to two referendums, one of them in a
long time ago, and it's failed both times. So if
it does go to a referendum and the politicians don't
put some big concessions on the table. I think it's
pretty hard to see it passing again, but we'll see, right, Well, the.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Government might need four years to x the ARIMA and
replace it with two new laws. What's going on here?

Speaker 10 (25:53):
Yes, this is the third time since twenty twenty nineteen
that someone's proposed acting the RIM and replacing it with
two laws. And in fact Labor did ax the RBA
and replaced it with two laws, but the current government
then x those replacements, bought back.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
We are a man is.

Speaker 10 (26:08):
Now replacing it with two laws. So these two laws
are different from laters two laws. They're going to be
focused on property rights. One of them will deal with
environmental the environmental effects of stuff a bit like the
RMA does.

Speaker 11 (26:21):
Now.

Speaker 10 (26:21):
We haven't got a lot of detail about how it
will do that, but property rights are going to be
at the center of it, and then the other one
will be more of an urban development pro development piece
of legislation. So we don't we know that the vague
trust of where they're heading with us, but we haven't
seen legislation yet. That's that's a point of the working
group to sort of iron out the details. But again,
they're planning to move pretty quickly with it. They want

(26:43):
they want new legislation in place for the parliaments, which
you know, given and we only have a three year term,
is rapidly approaching.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
It certainly is look very quickly. There was some tension
in the House around Maria Language week this week.

Speaker 10 (26:57):
Yes, yes, there was, I mean there were there was
a big tension in the House around a fair bit
of stuff. There'n't some some tension that I think the
government was sort of johnny come lately regarding Maori language use.
That was evident on Monday when when when Paul Goldsman

(27:17):
sort of trotted out of Sucker Tokey despite having gotten
into hot water about his not using Malory's salutations. And
there's there's been a bit of controversy this this year
in general around the way that that Malori questions are
used in the House and and translated in.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And and.

Speaker 10 (27:39):
MP switching back and forth, which is it's a funny
controversy because we've had we've had Maori translation in the
House for some time now. I think it's final the nineties.
So it's sort of interesting that it's it's it's bubbling
to the poor at the moment. But I can't see
it really be coming to too controversial. It's already in
my mainstream issue.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Thank you so much, Thomas. Good to catch up. Don't
forget that. Richard Osmond, ted personality and author of the
Thursday Murder cal book series, is with me after ten
this morning. It's twenty to ten.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Sunday with Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and
Wiggles for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Please talk Sy, you're.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
With the Sunday Session. Every year. I am in complete
awe with the mad creativity that goes into the world
of wearable art. And at the heart of while is
the Wearable Art Competition. There is huge demand internationally for
designers to nab a place in the show. Final judging
takes place tomorrow night, and to talk me through this
year's entries. Head of Competition Sarah Nathan joins me. Good morning, Sarah,

(28:43):
Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 12 (28:44):
How are you good?

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Thank you so talk me through how the competition works.
You've got final judging taking place tomorrow night. Yes, what's
the process like to get to final judging?

Speaker 12 (28:57):
It's a very long process for designers, especially an international designer,
and this year they represent over sixty XM of the
finalist garments. So they generally the year before they complete
their garments. So garments you seen this year mostly were
completed in twenty twenty three in February. They upload their photographs,

(29:22):
videos and descriptions on our Designer Portal system and then
they are pre selected. So then really when we're pre Selectingking,
we're looking for garments that you know, we really believe
are finalists, and so all of those garments and then
the same happens in New Zealand a month or two later,

(29:43):
and those garments are then sent to us in Nelson.
So we still have our wardrobe department and our offices
in Nelson in past so everything comes there. So then
it goes through three judging processes. The first one is
confirmation of selection and we call that first judging and
that's when the judges get to see the garments up close.

(30:05):
And then of course are highest technical team. They're looking
at quality of construction. Health and safety is really important.
You know, when you're looking at the heights of shoes headwear,
you know you're thinking about visibility and breathability because those
models are on stage for a long time over the seasons,
so then they're selected, then we know who our finalists are.

(30:28):
Then our garments will comes to Wellington in August when
we start loading into the TSP arenas, and then there's
another two rounds of judging. The first one is the
first time that the judges see the garments with choreography
and movement, and so many of the garments are designed
specifically that when they're in movement they look at their best.

(30:50):
And then the fine well, the final sorry I should
say final one is as you say, Tomorrow night, Monday
night final judging, and that's where the show's just about ready.
So you're seeing everything in its full glory with the
right lighting, all of the music, all of the pathways
and choreography in place.

Speaker 13 (31:09):
And yeah, so it's a process.

Speaker 12 (31:15):
And I'll tell you the other thing that most people
don't realize is it's we call it blind judging. So
when the judges see the garment, they don't know who
the designer is, they don't know what country it came from.
All they know is the name of the garment.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
What is the caliber of entries? Like this year.

Speaker 12 (31:31):
It's insanely great as usual. I was I was thinking
about that question because it's always really really high. And
because you don't. It's not that we have a set
number of garments that we bring in every year. Every year,
what's in the show is the cream of the crop.
And we often get asked by you know, the public

(31:53):
and desire how many did you get? I said, well,
it doesn't really matter if that's a big number or
a little number. All you need to know is what
you see is the cream of the crop. And but
I think what you see year on year is a
you kind of got. At one end, you've got technology
is advancing material materiality and the way that people manipulate materiality,

(32:16):
come up with new ways. And at the other end,
you've just got that beautiful hand craft which always blows
our mind a'sition when you do get to see them
up loose.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Sarah Well is so incredibly popular. What do you put
its success down to? Is it that it just continues
to push boundaries and the audiences just see something new
and more stunning year on year.

Speaker 12 (32:39):
It is phenomenal, and it's I think it is. I think,
on one hand, you know you wouldn't have well without
the garments, right, I mean, the show is phenomenal and
the show what they do. It's you know, it's of
the highest international standard. But the reality is without the

(33:00):
basis of the garments, we don't have the concept. So
why do designers keep coming back? Why is it's still
popular because as if nowhere else in the world where
they can they can design without the limitation of commercial constraint.
And so you might be a high fashion designer, you
might be a costume designer, you might work in a

(33:20):
particularly specialized craft, but why would you create this sort
of creation other than wow? So that's why it works
from the garment perspective, from the audience perspective, because it's
never the same every year. It's different because the garments
are different, the show is different, so the story is different.

(33:43):
And I think the final special source is that it
just brings joy, you know, use the word or when
you introduce it, and it just is it's or inspiring.
I sat through a rehearsal last night, and you know,
we're getting pretty close now, and I've been I've been
with these garments since January, and I his on my

(34:08):
arm stand up and I think, particularly you know times
like this where this cost of living crisis, a lot
of people are having a really hard time. People are
still looking for that moment of joy and awe and
to walk out, you know, with an airworm of a

(34:29):
song and so much to talk about.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Absolutely, Sarah, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Best of luck for the week, Have a great week.
That was head of competition, Sarah Nathan from Wow. The
final judging is on Monday night. The awards ceremony is
this Friday night, and the show runs from this Thursday,
the twenty sixth, to Sunday, the thirteenth of October. It's
eleven to ten.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 14 (34:54):
Where are we at with the aut racist policy of
handing out a better travel deal for employees who happened
to be Mario pacificate Jusiary Minister Penny Simmons is with
us on this. Now they defend it, don't they?

Speaker 11 (35:03):
Yes, they do, And look they have an ab trute
right to defend and the education and training at twenty
twenty gives them that independence to make those decisions. So
I can't direct them to take notice of the cabinet
circular or the intent in it. I can only draw
it to their attention. Look, I've spoken with the Vice
Chancellor de Damon, and I think that aut have got

(35:26):
some good rationale behind this decision.

Speaker 14 (35:29):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
the Jaguar Inase use talk Zibby.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Sunday with Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
For the best selection of great reeds, use talk Zibby.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Jus Right, So I started off the morning talking about
how you know, we can't take all the fun out
of life, and we should be able to run and
jump off a jety or a wolf if we like
a text here reads wolf jumping is like climbing trees. Yes,
one could fall out. Yes it gets a bit precarious.
But over engineered play structures get kids rolling their eyes.

(36:13):
They want to use spaces with a challenge. They want
to navigate their own environment. Risk is a life lesson,
not something to eradicate. Thank you for your text or
so as if the house mentioned he jumping off the
lake to Ecu jetty is such fun. The huge eels
that live under the jetty just love fresh meat. Now,
I had been told about the eels that they kind
of congregate around the piles.

Speaker 8 (36:34):
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Is that because people feed them? I was just anticipating
I would have to jump very far to avoid the
eels and then moved like an eel as far as
I possibly can and get out of the water to
eels bite. Do you know if heels bite carry to
eels bite? You please do let me know if I
need to be aware of this. I'm jumping off this wolf.

(36:57):
I do love a wolf and it is one of
the most picturesque, picturesque warfs that we have in New Zealand.
But maybe people will hear me now jump off the
wolf if we've got an issue with the eels. But
a bit more information on that would be very much appreciated.
Regarding the election term, how much does the election cost
the taxpayer? I es better to be four or five

(37:19):
year term may also encourage more voters. That was from
Tony and quite a few techs. So just saying keep
it it three years another one year of labor would
have put us in the dumps even more so we're
all just a bit burnt maybe from the last few years.
Francesca Zero voted for a four year term in nineteen nineteen.
Would do it again despite the debacle during the labor
COVID era. So thank you very much for your text. Hey,

(37:41):
we released a new episode of The Little Things yesterday.
It's all about understanding the middle aged man with news talks.
He'd be News Talks, he'd Be's afternoon host Matt Heath
and clinical psychologist Google Sutland. Really worth a listen for
everybody in the family. You can get it at Iheartspotify,
where you get your podcasts. It's a five to ten

(38:03):
ve It's simple.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
It's Sunday, the Sunday Session when Jessica Rudcoat and wiggles
for the best selection of Gray's News Talk Zedvy.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Okay, yes, eels bite. So that's a little bit of
a dampner on things, but never mind, I shall. I
am going to persist. The Thursday Murder Club book series
by writer and TV personality Richard Osmond has been absolutely huge.
He solved millions of books. Series has been turned into
a Netflix series by Steven Spielberg. And while all this
is taking place, Richard thought he'd start writing a new

(38:33):
book series, Could we Solve Murders? He's going to tell
us all about it next. We're going to finish up
with a little bit of green Day. This is Boulevard
of Broken Dreams. It's off the album American Idiot, which
turned twenty this week. Where has the time gone back?
Shortly shal.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Save my chilas.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Side Shine Up.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads US Talks.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Good to have you with us. This is a Sunday
session on News Talks. He'db seven past ten write. The
Thursday Murder Club book series by writer and TV personality
Richard Osman has been an absolute global smash bit. The
series has sold ten million copies worldwide and smashed sales
records in the UK. It's also been picked up by

(39:50):
Steven Spielberg and has currently been adapted to for Netflix.
And I'll tell you what it is an star studded cast.
It's incredible. Author Richard Osman will be well known to
fans of UK panel shows the likes of Pointless and
Eight out of Ten Cats. Richard has put The Thursday
Murder Club on hold to start a new series. We
Solve Murders is on sound Now and Richard Osmond joins

(40:12):
me now from the UK. Richard thank you for your time.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
It's a pleasure.

Speaker 15 (40:16):
Francesca lovely to Lovely to chat.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
After four books, you've put Thursday Murder Club series on
hold to righte we solve murders. Why the break? Did
you just need a break?

Speaker 8 (40:29):
No, God, not at all.

Speaker 15 (40:30):
I think I think readers occasionally need a break. I
think you know I'm going to be writing for the
next twenty five years, so at some point you have
to introduce a new world to readers. You have to
introduce new characters to readers, and you know that's what
I'm doing here. Thursday Murder Cup will be back in
twenty twenty five, but in the meantime, I've got this
wonderful raft of new characters who are I think and

(40:52):
I hope people will also fall in love with.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'm sure they will. Was it quite refreshing, though, for
you to do something different to develop these new characters.

Speaker 15 (41:01):
I don't know really. For the first couple of weeks,
I really felt like I was cheating on the Thursday
Murder Club. I felt terribly guilty. And then I've reasoned
with myself that the Thursday Murder Clubs still exists in
this world.

Speaker 8 (41:11):
They're just up the road.

Speaker 15 (41:13):
They're just putting their feet up after a tough few years.
And as soon as I fell in love with these
new characters, Steve and Amy and Rosie, everything was everything
was golden from that moment onwards.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
A different book, but there are little similarities.

Speaker 8 (41:28):
I think.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
You know, it's absolutely going to appeal to your fans,
isn't it. There are some similarities between the series in
this book.

Speaker 15 (41:36):
Yeah, listen, I think so much as I'd like to say,
I've written, you know, an extraordinary new piece of experimental fiction.
Anyone who likes the Thursday Murder Club books, I think
is going to love this. It's got the same written
wisdom and warmth and all of that kind of stuff.
It's just on a broader canvas. It's likely more globe
trotting than Thursday Murder Club has done. But yeah, you

(41:56):
would not mistake it for anyone else is writing. I
think once you got through the first few pages, I.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Did hear that Steve, one of the one of the
main characters, might be slightly in by yourself and the
fact that you're a bit of a reluctant traveler.

Speaker 15 (42:10):
Yes, I wanted to write something that was globe trotting,
and I thought to myself, would who would it be
funniest for me to send around the world? And I
thought the best person would be someone who really, really
really doesn't want to go around the world, and that's Steve.
Steve lives in a beautiful village in Hampshire, in the
south of England, in the New Forest. All he wants
to do really is stay home with his cat, Trouble,

(42:31):
and he wants to do the pub queers, and he
wants to hang out with his mates. And essentially, his
daughter in law is a bodyguard for billionaires and all
she wants to do is go around the world. And
she gets into trouble. Someone is targeting her and she
owes only one person she can trust, that's Steve, so
she sends for him. And suddenly, poor Steve has to
leave behind this quiet life and fly around the world

(42:54):
on private jets to his much to his disappointment.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
I have to say, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Sure if you're at the private jet stage yet, but
is that you are? You a reluctant traveler a little bit.

Speaker 15 (43:05):
I like it when I am somewhere. I don't like
the transitional period between being at home and being somewhere abroad.
That's the bit I hate. I'm happy at home. If
I end up somewhere else, I'm okay. But yeah, by
and large, I don't want to go to airports. I
don't want to be on planes. I don't want to
in my brain, I don't like to do new things,

(43:25):
and I kind of do. But I wanted to have
somebody having this incredibly luxurious world around him and all
the time just thinking, OK, I need to get home
for Tuesday, because that's the pub quiz.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
I do have to hit you up on a night though,
regarding tripling, because you went to Australia last year. You
came all the way to Australia. We adjust, we had
just a tiny hop across the Tasman. Very disappointed.

Speaker 11 (43:48):
You did not make it.

Speaker 8 (43:49):
Tell me about it.

Speaker 15 (43:50):
You were disappointed. One of my great ambitions is to
come to New Zealand, right. I think British people are
in love with New Zealand because it has you know,
it feels exostic and far away, but it feels it
has a familiarity. You know, if we've been to Scotland,
we feel like New Zealand is this extraordinarily exciting and
you know a tropical version of Scotland. Yeah, I went
to Australia.

Speaker 8 (44:09):
I could only do a week.

Speaker 15 (44:12):
I honestly, like all British people, I thought New Zealand
was like half an hour on the plane from Sydney.
When I discovered it wasn't, I thought, Okay, if I'm
going to do New Zealand, I don't want to turn
up for a day. If I want to do New Zealand,
I'm going to come for a month. See everything, see everybody.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Very cool. Yeah, you've always written. Most of your work
has of course being on TV, and it wasn't until
you were almost fifty that you started releasing these novels.
Do you think that time and that life experience, you know,
was actually helpful when it came to you know, these
book these books. Do you think that if you'd been

(44:47):
writing these books, say, in your twenties, there would have
been quite a different thing.

Speaker 8 (44:52):
I do think that. Yeah.

Speaker 15 (44:53):
I mean, listen, there are some there are people who
write brilliant books in their twenties, and the Sally Rooney
Martin amos.

Speaker 8 (44:58):
That there are people who can do it.

Speaker 15 (44:59):
I think if I'd written a book in my twenties,
it might have been a bit more glib. You know,
I'm sure it would have been. You know, I could
written something funny and written a murder mystery. But I
think I hope that life and lived experience allows me
to write a book that resonates more with people, and
I can write about things I wouldn't have been able
to do. And I've been through all sorts of things.
So yeah, I think that my brain was looking after me,

(45:22):
and every time I started a novel over the years,
I think my brain was saying, You've got to wait
your turn, young man, and you've got to wait until
actually you've got something to say.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Has the book success sort of turned your career a
little bit? I mean, is this kind of what you're
mostly doing these days?

Speaker 15 (45:38):
Yeah, it's funny, you know what. Weirdly, being a TV
presenter was the with blip in my life because I've
always been a writer, and then I became a completely
accidental television presenter and a completely accidental famous person in
the UK. And actually writing is my love. Writing is
a thing that I've always done, So this is actually,
this is one hundred percent if I look back across

(46:01):
my whole career. If anyone wants to know who I am.
If anyone wants to know where my heart is and
what I know about the world, it's in the books.
That is one hundred percent me And everything in life
happens for a reason. But I'm very glad I've lived
life in the order that I have.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
You're right, incredibly strong, intricate characters. Where do they come from?
What do you want in a character?

Speaker 15 (46:24):
Well, to me, I know, I write in the genre
of crime fiction, and people sort of always think about
plots and always think about where do you get your ideas?
And for me, books of all character that's the only
thing I'm interested in. Really, It's not what happens in
the book. It's why do I care what happens in
the book? Why am I going to follow the story?
So everything for me starts with character. So you know,
if I start a book, I'm not thinking, Oh, what

(46:45):
could happen, what could be the murder, what could be
the twist? I'm thinking, who am my protagonists here? What's
their relationship with each other? Why do they love each other?
What differences do they have with each other? And when
I start writing a book, I just write conversations between
characters until I work them out, until suddenly people say something.
So in this book, I've got Steve Wheeler, the ex cop.

(47:06):
I've got his daughter in law, which I thought was
a fun relationship. And I thought, right, I'm going to
find out a little bit about this daughter in law, Amy,
who's a bodyguard, so she has to have a client.
At the start of the book, I thought, I'll give
her a like a novelist, like a Jackie Collins type novelist.
So she's looking after this woman called Rosie D'Antonio on
a private island in South Carolina, and I thought, I'll
just write a conversation between the two of them, and

(47:28):
I'm trying to find out about Amy when I'm doing this,
and she's having this conversation with Rosie, who is of
indeterminate age but certainly was around in the Hollywood of
the seventies and eighties, so she certainly has a certain vintage.
She's always got a martini in her hand, of mischief
in her eyes. And when I finished that, just a
bit of dialogue, this one little chapter, I thought, Rosie

(47:49):
has got to also be It was going to be
a two parter. Now this book is a three part
and that's what I love about character. That's what I
love about citing books is find the characters. Find the
characters and then follow them and plot can follow. But
everything is do I care about these people.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Some people think that mixing crime and comedy it's not
a natural peering. I mean, I think that comedy can
be mixed with absolutely anything, but I think it's really
hard to get the balance right. And you get the
balance right, but that's hard, Yes.

Speaker 15 (48:19):
It really is, And I'm exactly like you. As a
lifelong crime fiction pan. There's a few people who could
even do it. Chris Brickman I can do it. Carl
Arson and the States cann't do it. But I don't
really like it so much when there are jokes in crime,
but it takes me out of the story. And so
right from the start of the murder, I thought, whatever
you do, don't make this funny, right, I just thought, absolutely,

(48:41):
don't do it. But my career has been comedy. That's
the way my brain works, its first port of call.
So the rule I made for myself was the characters
can be funny. The author is not allowed to be funny.
So if there's anything that's making you laugh, it's the characters.
And there are interactions with each other and the situations
they find themselves in. I hope at no point you're thinking, oh,

(49:02):
that's the author trying to be funny. That's the author
making a joke, because it takes you out of the story.
So set myself that rule early on, which is anything
funny that happens is down to the characters, and I
keep myself out of it. That's how I try and
make that balance it works.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Let's talk about the Netflix adaptation, because it's quite incredible
the group of people that have come on board to
pull this off. You've got Steven Spielberg, You've got Chris
Columbus is writing and directing it. You've got the most
incredible cast. So that what is it like handing it over?
What is it like handing over to people of this
kind of caliber?

Speaker 15 (49:40):
Well, yes, exactly. That question is absolutely right to be
a two parter because obviously, when you have to hand
it over, unless you're going to be in charge of
the whole thing yourself, you have to hold it at
arm's length. You have to say I've done my bit,
which is right the book. I have to let someone
else have some fun now. But when you hand it
over to people of that caliber, and Chris Columbus is
just the nicest man you'll ever meet in your entire life.

(50:04):
And then Chris says, oh that Helen Mirren's to do it.
You're like, okay, and Sir Ben Kingsley has joined up.
See there, Imri is this Pierce Brosnan isn't there? You
just think, well, look, I know I'm holding this at
arm's length, but I feel like I'm in safe hands.
So I've been down to the set a few times
and you know, they make me very welcome, and that's
that's lovely. But seeing that incredible group of people doing

(50:27):
their job is wonderful, and I just I'm honestly, I'm
watching from the outside and waiting, like all fans of
the book, I'm just waiting to see what they do
with it and what the film's like. But it's some Yeah,
you sort of sit there and Pierce bosn and ambles
over and starts chatting to you, and you think, well,
this is this is an unusual Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
You've had a lot of involvement in television in the UK,
the media and New Zealanders and all sorts of trouble.
Some companies have made capbex One Nick Mooks has adopted
its entire news division. Who you're talking about the BBC
and its financial woes on your podcast? What is the
situation like in the UK? Is the media struggling?

Speaker 8 (51:05):
Yeah, it's the same.

Speaker 15 (51:06):
Do you know what It's interesting when we say the
media is struggling because what we actually mean is the
media as we understand it from where we were when
we grew up, is struggling. So you know, I grew
up in an environment and lots and lots of your
listeners would have grown up in environment where you've got
your free to air television and you've got your regular channels,
and you know, everything is scheduled. And that was our childhood,
that was our teenage years, that's our twenties. So that's

(51:28):
what we understand by media that is definitely going. So
all those big older legacy companies and those big legacy broadcasters,
they're in trouble because advertisers have found easier ways to
reach people, and without those advertisers that the ecosystem doesn't work.
So I think media, funnily enough, creativity and content has
probably never been in a better place because there's lots

(51:49):
and lots of ways for people to enter the industry
to create content. But that thing that is in our heart,
which is sitting down with our family or friends watching
something that the rest of our country is watching at
the same time, and then talking about it the next day,
that is something that's going to disappear. And it's tremendously
sad for us. It's certainly tremendously sad for people who

(52:11):
work in those legacy industries. But I think it's inevitable,
and I think it does get replaced with something interesting,
and it will get replaced with something where.

Speaker 8 (52:19):
There is more work to do.

Speaker 15 (52:21):
But you know, if you worked on the steam trains
just before the electric trains came in, there's not a
huge amount that you can do about it. It's the truth,
other than you know, try and you know, learn how
electric trains work.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Richard just finally Thursday Murder Club characters. It's great to
hear we'll be back in twenty twenty five. But I
suppose the one issue about writing about people in a
retirement village and of the suitin age is that how
long can they last? So does that sort of tear
up your heart strings of it? Because you've created these

(52:56):
characters that people really really love. I mean, they can
go on for ever. But I wonder if it ever
crosses your mind.

Speaker 8 (53:03):
Yeah, I do think.

Speaker 15 (53:04):
Yeah, that's if I made any misstep here, it's to
start a series with protagonists in their late seventies and
early eighties. I think that I try and pack an
awful lot in so the first four books sort of
take place sword for across a year, really, and I'll
continue to do that. I'm also banking on the fact
that readers and myself can enter into a little contract

(53:27):
with each other, which is we can slow down the
aging process a little bit. But you're absolutely right. I
can't be writing about them in twenty years time, but
there's plenty of life in them yet. I will say that.
But you make a very valid point, and don't think
it's not something that's kept me awake at night before.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Now, well, i'll sign that contract. I'm on board.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Excellent.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Thank you, Richard. It's been a delight to talk to you.
Thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 15 (53:55):
It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Franchesca and New Zealand.
I will come and visit you soon. I promise.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
We will hold you to that.

Speaker 8 (54:02):
Richard.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
That was Tally houst and author Richard Osmond has new
book We Sold Murders is in stalls this week after eleven.
This morning, doctor Tony Fernando joins me to talk about
how we can find some calm in this chaotic world
by using a few life hacks courtesy of Buddhism. It
is twenty one past tenure with News Talks edbep.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
It Simple It's Sunday.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkint and Wig calls for
the best selection of great readings News Talks eNB.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
When you're looking for a good book to read, Wickkeles
knows that the range of choice can be overwhelming. It's
important that you find the one that's right for you
or for the person to whom you might be gifting it,
and that's where the power of recommendation comes in. That's
why Wikeles offers the Top one hundred Kids Top fifty
and Jones picks. The Top one hundred and the Kid's
Top fifty have been voted for by the readers of

(54:53):
New Zealand. So thousands of people have loved them enough
to vote for them. Chances are you'll love them too.
Jones Picks is a selection of books by the Wick
calls head book by their titles, She's read and loved
and they come with Jones's highest recommendation with top one
hundred Kids, Top fifty Jones Picks and Games, Puzzles, Toys, Gorgeous,
stationary and more. There really is something for everyone at Wikkels,

(55:15):
Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wit calls
for the best selection of gratings used, talk Zed be time.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
To Talk Entertainment and joining me now is Steve Newill,
editor at Flickster, Cott and Z. Good Morning, Good morning
the Penguin, which has just started on Neon is going
to be my Sunday afternoon entertainment. Is it going to
be good entertainment?

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Are going to love it?

Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (55:41):
I reckon, that's a really good pick. Actually, the well,
it partly depends on where you stand with watching superhero
style antics in twenty twenty four. But what makes this
interesting It's a spinoff from twenty twenty two's movie The
Batman starring Robert Pattinson, which was another kind of gloomy,
grimy take on Gotham City that really focused on Batman

(56:02):
as the world's greatest detective and followed him through kind
of a serial type story, but introduced Colin Farrell wearing
three hours worth of prosthetics as the penguin Oz Cobb,
but really just as a supporting character. The show puts
in front and center, and it's refreshingly superhero free. It's

(56:23):
just a story about mob machinations in Gotham City and
it's really enjoyable.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Now, this isn't something that you gather the family around
and that the young kids.

Speaker 16 (56:32):
Go, No, there's a high body count. There's a few
f bombs here and there, and it's a bit it
gets Yeah, it's a bit sadistic in places as well,
so not family viewing. This isn't your Adam West Batman
Andndy's on the wrong side of her trousers.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Superhero stuff and we're TV series.

Speaker 16 (56:53):
TV series and having watched the all eight episodes of
the of the show, it kind of becomes a very interesting,
I guess origin story taking someone from mid level mob
functionary too kind of true villain status by the By
the end of the show, Farrell disappears under the makeup.

(57:13):
It's a it's a it's a big suit it kind
of makes some like one but Harvey Weinstein, one but
Tony soprano and an opposite Farrell is the scene stealing
Kristin Miliotti as as the daughter of a mob boss
who's making her own moves really great. Kind of it's
kind of like, I guess Breaking Bad esque two a

(57:39):
moral people kind of circling each other and constantly raising
the stakes until stuff starts to get out of hand.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
We've got The Joker. The film also been released in
the next week or so. Is there a market for
all the spinoffs?

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Right question?

Speaker 16 (57:53):
The Batman was reasonably well. The band was pretty successful,
successful enough to warrant the show and a sequel, which
comes out in a year or two. As to The Joker, look, look,
I didn't like Todd phillips first Joker film with Ken Foennix.
Generally don't really like, Hey, let's try and make a
way for this kind of silly stuff to be serious

(58:15):
and grounded, because let's face it, it's kind of not.
But I liked seeing Gotham come to life and this show.
It opens with, I mean spoilers for a movie that
came out a couple of years ago. The Batman ends
with the poorer areas of Gotham being flooded and a
huge amount of damage being reaped upon the city, and

(58:35):
that really kind of sets up a lot of the
class struggles and haves and have not conflicts of this
series as well. So it's kind of nice to see
a setting of a superhero story brought to life in
a bit more detailed.

Speaker 8 (58:48):
Look at us here.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
One of my favorite film festivals is going to kick
off soon to Show Me Shorts Film Festival. I think
it is harder to tell a story beautifully and articulately
and move people in a short film that it is
when you've got ninety minutes, right, And I think what
people can achieve with short films is incredible. And they

(59:10):
put I reckon that the Showmy Shorts. They put on
some fantastic nights where you go and you laugh and
you cry and you leave and you go, oh my goodness.
I had no idea I was going to be so
moved by a collection of short films.

Speaker 8 (59:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (59:19):
I feel the same way, And it shows like there's
not just an art to making a short film, and
as you say, kind of conveying that with a relatively
limited run time, but also in the way that these
Show Me Shorts sessions are curated around a theme or
a concept or a country of origin, and really a

(59:40):
matter of you know, Okay, look, maybe this one isn't
the one that got me, but the next one might
or the one after that. I really love the way
the program the festival, and I say they I have
to confess I probably should say we. I'm on the
board of Show Me Shorts a recent edition, but I
would be here seeing its praises anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
So let's just take we do every year. So but
the programs all out is that, yeah, it is.

Speaker 8 (01:00:06):
So.

Speaker 16 (01:00:06):
The the Festal's taking place from the tenth to the
twenty eighth of October, so that's very very shortly. There's
one hundred and twenty six screenings across the country, and
they've managed to whittle down the Festals manage to whittle
down twenty four hundred submissions. Yeah, twy four hundred short films.
I've gone through to get to eighty five shorts from
all over the globe, including a bunch of world premieres.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
And I also love the fact that they really do
try to get across the whole country. They screen they
have screenings.

Speaker 16 (01:00:32):
Yeah, absolutely. And look, if you I think anyone that's
ever been to show me short screening before, we'll know
that it brings together a really interesting group of people
and there really is something in it for everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Yeah. Look, maybe in a few weeks time we can
talk about one or two other films that would be fantastic.

Speaker 16 (01:00:45):
Sounds great, we'll do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Thank you so much, Steve. Now, each week doctor Michelle
Dickinson brings us a science study showcasing how scientists are
trying to make the world a better place or understand
it better. And then once a year we have at
little laugh at what other scientists spend their time doing.
It is time for the Ignoble Awards again that it's
coming up next twenty eight to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Talks at b.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Scientists can do some pretty incredible things, and then they
can do some very interesting things and some very quirky
things that you do wonder how they managed to get
funding for, but there is often a purpose behind them.
Joining us now is doctor Michel Dickinson. Good morning, and Ronnie.
We're talking of course about the Ignoble Awards year and
it's my favorite. Well it's just I mean, honestly, we

(01:01:35):
all need a bit of a giggle on a Sunday morning,
and there is plenty to chuckle about here. What interests
you in the collection of winners this year?

Speaker 17 (01:01:46):
Yeah, So the Ignoble Awards are awards that go to
recognize science that will spurt interest and make you think.
And so there are many, Ah, there are so many.
My two favorites have to be bum breathing and scaring cows,
which we will we will go to. But there are
so many great Awardi winners.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Did you have a on the lips? I look, to
be honest with you, the cow it was pretty funny.
I was slightly intrigued about tuning the page. The one
about using chromatology to separate drunken sober worms. That definitely
provoked a few questions in my mind.

Speaker 17 (01:02:25):
What I liked about that one is what they saw
is the sober worms left the drunk worms for dead.
I just totally left them, imagine they were dead and
just carried on as well.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Maybe that's why it appealed to me. And there was
one about the swimming patients of dead trout I saw.
I can't find that way you like this one.

Speaker 17 (01:02:41):
So this it always stems, usually from somebody's childhood and
this research. I really liked watching trout swimming in the stream.
And if you've ever seen sort of salmon migrating, like
these fish have to go a really long way to
go breeding grounds. And he was watching trout swimming through
the stream where he lived, and he noticed that they

(01:03:02):
really swam elegantly in a fast blowing stream when they
were behind a rock. So rock sort of changes the
current of the flow of the water, and when they
were swimming behind a rock, they seemed to move much
more effortlessly. And he was like, that's interesting as a kid, anyway,
as an adult he was like, that's still interesting. So
he made a pretend stream in a fish tank and
put a pretend rock in there, and then placed some

(01:03:23):
living trout in that space behind the rock to try
and figure out how they move so effortlessly forward. And
then he was like, I wonder if it's the fish.
I wonder if it's the way the water runs behind
a rock. So then he took some dead fish, he
froze them, defrusted them, and placed them in the same
tank behind the rock and studied how their bodies moved.

(01:03:44):
And what he found is it's not the fish, it's
the eddy currents in the water. The reason why the
fish like to swim behind these rocks is because actually
the eddy current in the water propel the fish forward,
and the fish's body naturally has this sort of nice
wave move. And so he likened it to surfing and
basically said that these fish are surfing through the eddy

(01:04:06):
currents using the least amount of energy possible, and both
dead fish and living fish can swim forward effortlessly, looking
like they're relaxed, because actually it's not the muscles of
the fish that are moving, it's the eddy currents that
are propelling them forward.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
These might sound like a slightly ridiculous topic for a study,
but there was something very interesting behind it. You do
need to explain the physiology prize for discovering that mini
mammals are capable of breathing through the anus. So good,
you just go, how did we get here?

Speaker 17 (01:04:37):
So there are some fish that can breathe through their intestines,
that's how it all started, and they're called loaches. And
then there's a turtle called a Mary River turtle in
Australia who can breathe through its bum, and so they
basically these scientists during COVID realized that we didn't have
enough mechanical respirators for all of the patients, which are

(01:04:59):
these big instruments that help us to breathe when we're
in respiratory failure. And they said, we don't have enough
of this. How my we keep patients alive in a
different way if we cannot be putting them on these
mechanical respirators. And they knew about these bum breathing turtles
and these intestine breathing fish, and they said, I wonder
if humans can breathe through their anus. So they started

(01:05:21):
with fish, with sorry, with mice, rats and pigs, and
they stuck an oxygenated tube up their bottoms and they
were able to prove that they can actually keep these
animals alive when they're in respiratory failure by pumping oxygen
through their bottoms and your body is absorbing it enough
that it keeps you alive. So that's how it started.

(01:05:41):
And they were like, well, we can do that in pigs,
we must be able to do it in people. So
they're just starting their trials now in people. Yes, it's
exactly how you imagine it's going to be. But what
they found in the mammals is that they can keep
you alive through oxygen in your bum and if there
aren't enough mechanical respirators out there, you need something, So

(01:06:03):
that's where they first look.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
If it is while with the read later on today,
if you're just looking for a fascinating read, if you
just google IgG Noble Winners two thousand and four, you'll
come up with them and it will keep you highly
entertained for a while. Thank you so much, Michelle. We'll
catch you next week.

Speaker 8 (01:06:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Kylie Flower is pretty reasonable at the supermarket at the moment,
and there's quite a lot you can do with Kylie Flower.
Mike has a polonaise for us next. Yeah, I've never
heard of one of these either. It's twenty to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wig Girls
for the best selection of Greg reads US Talk Saty.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
We will of course be talking about the All Blacks
game with Jason Pine and we can a little later
in our show. I just noticed that there's a currently
a live game of rugby going on between Argentina and
South Africa. There's about seventeen minutes to go and South
Africa is just in the lead now twenty eight, twenty six,
but for a while there Argentina has been leading. So

(01:07:04):
it's really interesting to see how that's going to pan out.
Our keep you up to date with what is happening there.
Joining us now is Mike vander Ellison, our resident chef.
Good morning, Good morning, cauliflower. I've been eating quite a
lot of cauliflower this week, probably a little bit too
much cauliflower, because it's just keeps on giving. You know,
You're roasted up with some chickpeas and a few red

(01:07:24):
onions and a nice sort of sauce, put a dressing
on top, and it just goes for dinner, then it
goes for lunch. It's the gift that just keeps on giving.
It's quite versatile, it's very versatile.

Speaker 6 (01:07:36):
Loving it, Yeah, yeah, Can you think of another vegetable
that's as versatile as cauliflower? I can't really, you know,
when you think about it, maybe you know, you go broccoli,
but even then, yeah, I prefer.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
I prefer there's something about cauliflower that you can just
flavor up really well, Like you can turn it into
your rice. You can turn it into use it as
a you know, as a pasta. You can just roast it,
you can put it into a smoothie. You can, I mean,
you do anything with it. But you can also add
flavor to it really well.

Speaker 6 (01:08:05):
Well, it takes on flavor really well.

Speaker 8 (01:08:08):
And the thing is, yeah, you can make a pizza
base out of couliflower.

Speaker 6 (01:08:11):
Now you could cut Yeah, you could cut your Colie
flour into steaks and then charg grill it and treat
it like a piece of meat.

Speaker 11 (01:08:21):
What do you reckon?

Speaker 8 (01:08:22):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
I think you're right the very it's a very versatile vegetable.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
And the good might be taking it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
A good thing about it is I think I think
I got one for about two dollars forty nine the
other day, the old yeah and so broccoli and same.

Speaker 6 (01:08:37):
I saw yesterday three broccoli for a dollar fifty. You
know that's that's pretty good. So, yeah, Colie and Brocoli
are in now. So I thought it's a dish that
I haven't actually made in a long time, and I
made it for a for an event during the week.
And it's called colieflower polonaise, and it's a dish we
used a lot in the UK. We used to make

(01:09:00):
this dish and serve it with mullet, with like pan
fried red mullet. And what colin flower pollonaises is. It's originated.
The dish originated in Poland, but it was the French
really that made it popular in about the eighteenth century.
And it's a dish that ticks a lot of boxes.
You've got the beautiful flavored roasted couliflower. You've got these

(01:09:22):
crispy breacrumbs that gives it texture. You've got rich butter
that you fry the couliflower, and you've got a salty
cap of parmesan, you use good parmesan. And you've got
the fattiness of the whole egg which has been hard
boiled smashed up through the salad. So if you think
of all those things, combine them to get it and
you have what we call a polonaise. And a polonaise

(01:09:44):
will go with anything. You could serve it by itself.
You could serve it along size the first and roasted chicken.
It's super universal and I guarantee I will put I
don't know what I'll put on it. I'll put something
on it that I guarantee if you make this dish,
you will fall in love with it as long as
you like cauliflower in the.

Speaker 8 (01:10:04):
First place, I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Take throw it.

Speaker 6 (01:10:07):
So I've got one headed couliefower. This will feed you know,
four to six people. As a side dish, bring a
large pot of boil, you know the gig. Bring a
large pot of water to the boil, Add a fair
amount of salt into it. Break the couliflower into like
eight pieces, and then drop them into the wail into
the water. Bring it to the boil. I'm gonna cook
those four minutes four minutes only, so put your timer on.

(01:10:29):
After four minutes, pull it out into ice cold water.
You want to stop that from cooking instantly, drain that.
Set that aside. Take a large cast iron pan. Heat
it over a medium hot heat, and then it's.

Speaker 8 (01:10:40):
A fair amount.

Speaker 6 (01:10:41):
I've got some flour oil for this. You could use
grape seed, any oil that has no color, no flavor.
So it's six tablespoons of some flour oil into the pan.
And then after that you've got the bread crumbs. So
I'm using Panco bree crumbs for this. If you've got
some old breadline around, if you've got some sourder or
some chier barta, break it up into little pieces. Fry

(01:11:01):
that off at this point if you want, you could
add a little bit of garlic to that. Just saute
that breae crumbs off until they become nice and golden.
Take them, put them aside into a large bowl. Take
your pan, give it a clean out, put it back
onto the heat, and now take your cauliflour. And this
is where the butter component comes in. So go two
tablespoons of subflour oil into that pan, along with two

(01:11:22):
tablespoons of butter. Then goes into your cauliflower. Saute your
cauliflower until it just starts to color. That comes off
into the bowl with your bree crumbs. And now come
all the final ingredients to finish this amazing dish off.
So I've got three eggs that have been hard boiled.

Speaker 8 (01:11:37):
Peeled and chopped. They go in.

Speaker 6 (01:11:39):
I've got a cup of parsley, it could be curly
or Italian either either.

Speaker 8 (01:11:42):
Chop that up. That goes in.

Speaker 6 (01:11:44):
I've got a cup of finely grated parmesan that goes in.
A decent crack of pepper, maybe a little bit more
sea salt. And to finish the whole thing and to
bring it all together, one lemon. Cut your lemon in half.
You could put the zest in there if you want,
or just the juice. Give that a big mix and
then that is it. That's all that goes into a
cauliflower pollense.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Thank you so much, Mike, very much appreciate it. As always,
if you would like to get your hands on this recipe,
all you have to do is head to newstalk ZDB
dot co dot nz Ford slash Sunday we will get
that up there for you today or good from scratch
dot co dot nz. It is twelve to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breeds.

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
Use talk ZEDB and I'm able to keep an eye
on this rugby here for you. Argentina is now in
the lead twenty nine twenty eight against South Africa at
the seventy one minute. This is going to be very
interesting to see how this unfolds. Anyway, joining me now,
it's time to talk about this eron o'harva natural bath
joins me. Good morning, Good morning. You're talking about leaky

(01:12:52):
gut this morning. Ah, this is a real thing, isn't it.

Speaker 8 (01:12:57):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Interesting, it's been a.

Speaker 18 (01:12:58):
Real controversial thing that people doctors have gone is it
such a thing? And then also I think it's been
over talked about as well. A lot of people like, oh,
I've got digestive problems, it's leaky gat, and it's like,
is it really leaky gat?

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
Like it's just been hard to diagnose.

Speaker 18 (01:13:13):
Yes, And I think that's really what it comes down to,
is like what are the symptoms of it? And how
do you know if you've got it or not? Or
are you just making it up that you think you've
got leaky gut because you feel fatigued, And that's not
really a good enough reason to consider it to.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Be leaky gut. What are some of the symptoms.

Speaker 18 (01:13:30):
So some of the symptoms can be abdominal pain, food sensitivity, bloating, diarrhea, constipation,
sort of IBS kind of gut, but doesn't necessarily mean
that if you've got IBS you've got leaky gat either,
And I think that's where there's that misconception within the
community as people go, I've got digestive problems, it's probably
leaky gut.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
But actually without.

Speaker 18 (01:13:50):
Doing a test, you really don't know, and to do
testing is actually a little bit complicated. You kind of
need to do a still sample and to measure what
things like Zuleian. Zuleian is one of the biggest things
that you would check out for for leaky gut, So
usually you would have high Zoolian levels if you have
leaky gut, along with a low scredatory immunoglobin A, which

(01:14:14):
is an immune response. Now, if you don't know what
leaky gut is, it's literally meaning that the gut is
usually semi permeables. Everyone needs a semi permable layer than
the gut to uptake nutrients across the gut membrane.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
However, if you had leaky gut, you would have a
lot more.

Speaker 18 (01:14:31):
Gaps basically between the cells, and it's kind of like
I always call it free for all for things to
cross across the gut membrane and into the bloodstream, so
you're getting a lot more circulation of things that can
create more inflammation within the body.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
So to really get your gut.

Speaker 18 (01:14:47):
Working properly, you want to make sure you've got good
tight junctions, and that's where doing the right testing first,
because there's no point in taking you know, supplements.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
For leaky gut.

Speaker 18 (01:14:54):
If you don't have leaky gut, what a ways to
mun test for it? Yep, you can test for it,
So usually doing a still sample and check out the
particularly zoilin marker to see how you're gulating your type junctions. Also,
I would always look out for things like seliac disease
because seliac disease has one bag reason that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Would also cause a leaky gut. And you could do a.

Speaker 18 (01:15:17):
Endoscope to see what's going on and maybe biopsies, but
that's quite extreme. Like if you're going to go to
that level, I would just start with a stool sample
it's less invasive, and then picking up if you did
have a leaky gut, looking at sort of how are
you going.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
To treat that.

Speaker 18 (01:15:32):
Some of my favorites is using glutamine, and glutamine is
amino acid, so it comes from all your protein molecules.
But if you did have a leaky gut, you probably
want to higher amounts. You could dose it with a powder.

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
Now usually in.

Speaker 18 (01:15:45):
Tablets that are too lower dose, you'd have to take
ridiculous amounts of tablets, so powder usually looking at between
two and five grams twice a day. You can pick
it up at most health food chops and that's gonna
help with knitting the gut memebrane together. So it is
amino acid and it'll knit the gut memebrane together, usually
alongside some other amino acids. You may want to do
it through foods. Things like bone broth is really good

(01:16:07):
for building the gut lining. It helps with the knitting
up the gup membrane. And also looking at other nutrients
like zinc is important for gut membrane. Also probiotics a
really important for that gut function. And also looking at
your diet, so making sure you've got a good balanced diet.
If you are seedliac, obviously you need gluten free diet.

(01:16:28):
If you're not celiac, then being on a gluten free
diet necessarily it's not gonna cure a leaky gut either.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
Oh, Aaron, thank you so much for all that. I
appreciate it. Catch up next week It is a six
to eleven news talks eb Grabric cover.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of grains used talk ZEDB.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
So life gets a bit chaotic at times, doesn't it.
We're all living busy lives and we get a bit crazy.
So who doesn't want a few life hacks to help
us find some calm in the world. That is what
doctor Tony Fernando is keen to help us do. He's
a psychiatrist and a former Buddhist. Tony has written a
book called Life Hacks from the Border. I am loving it,

(01:17:11):
he joins me. Next here on news Talks MB.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads used.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
You're with the Sunday Session. I'm Francesca Budcin with you
until midday. Coming up this we're going to talk to
Jason find about the All Blacks and about Argentina who
have just beaten South Africa in a game of rugby.
Meghan checks out the new Auckland Airport outlet mall and
Joan has the latest book from Lucisinda Riley. Right, I
think most of us can relate to that need to

(01:17:58):
find calm amongst the world. We live in at the moment,
but how do we find that chilled out version of ourselves?
Doctor Tony Fernando is a psychiatrist, a sleep specialist, an
electure at Auckland University and a former ordained Buddhist monk.
He knows a thing or two about finding calm. His
new book is called Life Hacks from the Buddha and
Doctor Tony is with me in the studio.

Speaker 19 (01:18:20):
Good morning, Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
How long have you been a practicing psychiatrist?

Speaker 19 (01:18:28):
One of those questions since ninety eight?

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
Okay, for a while. Ages have you seen a difference
or a change in what people are struggling with in
life today? Or are they the same issues that humans
have always dealt with.

Speaker 19 (01:18:42):
It's interesting the core issues are the same, but it
just manifests differently. So if you really look at all
the different worries that people have, it all boils down
to a tendency to overthink, to catastrophize, to complicate the uncomplicated.

(01:19:03):
But the superficial complaints might bit different. In terms of
kids spending too much time on technology, you didn't hear
that in the late nineties, But the worrying is pretty similar.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
The other thinking and the worrying and things. Has the
world always been this chaotic?

Speaker 8 (01:19:21):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 19 (01:19:22):
Actually I haven't been around that lot. But my guess
is our current day and age has complicated it because now,
I mean, in the past twenty thirty fifty years, we've
spent more time in our heads. We're less being paying
attention to our body, and in the past probably people

(01:19:44):
spent more time with the body, working with their hands,
being with their body, like being embodied versus overthinking things.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
It's just a guess. How did you dis go a Buddhism?

Speaker 19 (01:19:56):
That's interesting story. So I grew up Catholic, never been
interested in Eastern philosophy or psychology or religion. But I
picked up the book by the Dalai Lama in two
thousand and four, which captured me. Not because it was
a Dalai Lama, but it was because another psychiatrist interviewed him.

(01:20:17):
So I'm just interested in, oh, what's his perspective on
anxiety and suffering. And at around the same time, same year,
I had patients who got better in terms of their
destructive tendencies self harm or even severe anxiety using mindfulness.
So I wasn't interested in mindfulness at all. But I

(01:20:39):
saw it improve a lot of my patients. So that
was the that caused an intellectual spark.

Speaker 8 (01:20:47):
For me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
And how has it impacted your life?

Speaker 19 (01:20:51):
Oh, it's for me. It's a game changer. Yeah, using
current technological words, it's more than a software upgrade. It's
a change of operating systems. I'm not a tech.

Speaker 6 (01:21:08):
For me.

Speaker 19 (01:21:08):
It's just a total shift and how to live life.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
It's probably worth mentioning at this point that there is
evidence that the life hecks that the border talks about,
that you speak about, there has actually been quite a
lot of scientific sort of yes, yes, studies done on that.

Speaker 8 (01:21:24):
Yes.

Speaker 19 (01:21:25):
So the past since I think mid seventies, as are
probably mid eighties, that's when the research on mindfulness started
in the US. And since then there's an explosion of
research on mindfulness and how effective it is in various
conditions stress, anxiety, depression, substance abuse. And now they're also

(01:21:46):
looking at other aspects now that's taught by the Buddha,
like compassion. So now we at Auckland University we started
the whole program and looking at compassion in healthcare, and
then people are looking at compassion therapies for people who
are very hard in themselves, people who have narratives which
are very unhelpful. I'm a loser, I'm really not a

(01:22:08):
good mom, I'm a bad doctor. So people actually have
those narratives what we call lack of self compassion. So
there's therapies now with good evidence that work on that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
So there's sort of two thousand years worth of knowledge
there which were finally rediscovering rediscovering yeah, yeah, And I
think the other important thing to say at the beginning
through this conversation is that it doesn't really matter whether
you're religious or whether you belong to another religion or not.
With your you know, an atheist, there's messages in here
that you can you can take and you can leave.

Speaker 8 (01:22:44):
Yah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
You know, we're not It's not like by picking up
this book you're going to become a Buddhist.

Speaker 19 (01:22:48):
No, And in fact, what's the definition of a Buddhist?
Even some Buddhists don't want to be called Buddhists because
if you call someone Buddhist, they're separating themselves from the
rest of humanity. So the beauty of the Buddhist teachings
is that they're universal, and if you don't like them,
you can leave them, leave them and not pay attention

(01:23:11):
to it. So he's not seeking approval at all.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
I will get to some of the hecks in the
book in just a moment, but I'm also very keen
to hear about how you became a buddhismank.

Speaker 19 (01:23:22):
Yeah, so that's interesting as well. I'm quite a weird person.
I like doing things sometimes extremely so when I started
my PhD in compassion to studying compassion in medicine around
twenty eleven twenty twelve, what sparked that was actually the

(01:23:42):
Buddha's teachings and compassion, and since I'm studying compassion from
an academic perspective, doing experiments, doing research, I also wanted
to train in a monastery in Burma that specializes in compassion.
I wanted to see how they actually do it. So

(01:24:03):
that was the first impetus to try to be a
Buddhist monk. Not to become a Buddhist monk forever, but
I just wanted to do it, and they're open to that.
So they're open to what you call temporary ordinations. So
it wasn't like a commitment for a lifetime, it's a
specific I think I've committed two weeks to dive into it,

(01:24:24):
and it was a little extreme because Buddhist mocks who
practice in that tradition have very very strict lives. It's
mind training, and it's unbelievable from a Western perspective, the
training that they do to to soften the mind, to

(01:24:44):
make the mind open, to make the mind kind. It's
very severe training.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
So what's the what's the key to being come? And
the sky also quote.

Speaker 19 (01:24:57):
There's no one key, but a common entrance to, you know,
finding the road for com is being aware that our
minds are crazy. Because a lot of us try to
find come from external sources, like we want to go

(01:25:19):
to a beach, we want to go to this nice
country club, we want to have a message, but all
of those will end. But learning to be inquisitive of
how the mind actually causes the chaos is key. And
when we were aware that actually the mind is the

(01:25:40):
major player in this, what can I do to come
the mind? And there are all sorts of approaches. Mindfulness
is a very common way to to be aware of
how the mind works and how to com it a
little bit. I wouldn't even say quiet or still it.

(01:26:00):
That's a very hard ask from the from beginners.

Speaker 7 (01:26:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:26:04):
That's a common reason people who do mindfulness practice fail
or not pursue it is they say, my mind's too busy,
I can't meditate. Well, actually, because.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
You know, you don't need to meditate for hours a day,
like you could sit and do three minutes a day
yep and benefit from us.

Speaker 8 (01:26:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:26:24):
I was teaching meditation at Mount Eden Prison for a
few years, and we would start with one breath, meaning
just being fully attentive to the breath coming in, just
noticing the breath from the moment it goes in, it reaches,
it speak, and then you breathe out. That's the meditation,

(01:26:49):
and then we discuss it what happened, Oh okay, oh yeah,
it's interesting. You know, I was thinking of it so
angry at my wife and just one breath. Okay, well,
let's do three breaths. So we gradually expanded, and some
of them picked it up to the point I was
actually threw me off the far one day. One if

(01:27:11):
the guys said, well, tony, after I sach I meditate
the whole day.

Speaker 8 (01:27:18):
I was.

Speaker 19 (01:27:19):
I wasn't expecting that. So one breath, three minutes. It's
getting to know your mind.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
In the book, you say that if Buddhism teaching was
reduced to just one phrase, it would be caused no harm. Yes,
And it's really interesting because I was having a conversation
with my eighteen year old son recently and there was
some things going on, and I just remember I just
said to him, look, I just said, all I say,
just cause no harm. Just think about people, just cause
no harm. And then then I was actually a little
disappointed in myself that I felt like that was a

(01:27:50):
very low expectation to put on someone. And he's a cautious, intelligent,
lovely young man. I thought, I could you know, I
couldn't lift the bar a little bit. But actually it's
quite hard to constantly make sure that we're causing no
harm in the way we speak people and the way
we act and the way we treat people.

Speaker 19 (01:28:09):
Yeah, so that phrase no harm sounds so simple, but
it's actually complicated. Even in medicine. I'm not sure if
you've heard that one of the key key U I
wouldn't say edict, but guidelines for doctors do no harm.
But even in day to day non doctor life, we
actually inadvertently cause a lot of harm. Not in terms

(01:28:33):
of our actions. But actually, in terms of our speech,
even the buddhast time he knew that speech causes so
much harm that when the Buddha likes lists, this is
so incredible. He likes lists, and I think he has
one list where he said ten harmful actions that humans
tend to do. Four of them are related to speech.

(01:28:56):
And what's harmful speech? Speech? That is it can be true.
People like to say, well, what I'm telling you is true.
You're such a slob.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
That's true.

Speaker 19 (01:29:08):
But is it's not just being true?

Speaker 13 (01:29:11):
Is it?

Speaker 19 (01:29:11):
Is it kind? Does it cost peace? Is it the
right time? What's your intention?

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
You can still be honest?

Speaker 8 (01:29:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 19 (01:29:20):
Just and that happens in politics.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
Do you know it's funny you should say that, because
I was going to say we should never underestimate the
power of kindness. But kindness has been sort of politicized
a little over the last few years or weaponized, weaponized,
and people aren't so fond of the word, even if
deep down they agree with the notion of it. So
how do we embrace kindness again?

Speaker 19 (01:29:40):
Yeah, so kindness of beautiful topic. So for me, kindness
it should not Well, kindness is not just focusing on actions.
We have to look at what's our motivation, and one
good motivator for kindness and compassion is to realize that

(01:30:02):
all of us, despite our external differences, all want the
same thing. We want to be able to have a peaceful,
quiet life, not necessarily quiet, but peaceful, not to problematic life.
We want to be loved, We want a safe place,

(01:30:24):
we want food, water, we want our kids.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
To be safe.

Speaker 19 (01:30:29):
All of us, regardless of political party, regardless of whether
you're for this but ideological group or the other, we're
the same.

Speaker 8 (01:30:39):
My worry.

Speaker 19 (01:30:40):
I mean, I'm not into politics, but looking at what's happening,
not just in New Zealand, but especially in the US,
we get so hang up and we grasp on ideologies,
and going back to the Buddhist teachings, it's when we
grasp at ideas and ideologies that it causes suffering. Yeah,

(01:31:05):
not just to our selves but others. And that's what's
happening now. There's I don't see an openness in holding ideas.
And what I mean by that is, for example, I'm
pro a particular philosophy instead of just grasping as if
it's the only correct thing, which is never true. Be

(01:31:28):
open handed. You're holding your ideology, but you're open to
listening to others because people actually do not come really
from a malicious perspective. They can come off maliciously, but
it's coming from a place where we just want our
people to be safe.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
And the grasping is really interesting. You talk about that
throughout the book. We're grasping, you know, for our expectations.
We're grasping for pleasure. We're grasping. We want, we want more,
we want better, we want You know that that can
be a motivation in life when I want a bit
of car and o, I want to big a house,
and I want that handbag or what it might be.

(01:32:07):
We just constantly grasp.

Speaker 19 (01:32:08):
We're a grasping species. Yeah, yeah, and it's actually helpful
to an extent. It's helpful for survival because if we're
totally ungrasping, then you'll say, well I don't need to
have food, I don't need to have a safe shelter.
Then we're dead as a species. So there's a degree
of one thing. But the problem is it's in medice

(01:32:30):
I'll use a medical term, I can't think of a
non medical term. It's hypertropheed, meaning it's so muscled up
that it's just grasping, grasping, grasping. So the Buddh's saying, well,
you know there has to be a middle way.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
Yeah, just just not holding on so tightly, right tiny, yeah.
Oh Look, it's been such a pleasure to meet you.
Thank you so much, and thank you very much for
the book. I have very I have enjoyed it and
there is an awful lot in there That're not going
to be able to put into practice and I'm looking
forward to doing so.

Speaker 19 (01:33:01):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
Life Hacks from the Buddher is in stores now, is
up next twenty two past eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
It's a Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and wood Girls
for the best selection of grape breaths used TALKSTV.

Speaker 3 (01:33:22):
Get your All Blacks jerseys ready because Cadbury are taking
the Chair on tour right now. You could be in
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(01:33:45):
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Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
With Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles
for the best selection of great Reeds.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
He's talk Sevvy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Joining me on the panel.

Speaker 8 (01:34:24):
This morning.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
We have Liam here, partner at Freebahn and Heir Lawyers.
Good morning, Liam, Good morning, and we're also joined by
a Z to B Wellington morning host Nick Mills. Welcome, Nick.

Speaker 5 (01:34:36):
Morning.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Right, Nikki did some good work this week. We're going
to celebrate that. We're going to play a little bit
of an interview you did with Tory Farno this week.

Speaker 20 (01:34:44):
Do you feel I mean, you get your salary and
you get your car, and you get all the purple.
I mean, that's fine, and that's great and you deserve it.
I'm not time to take anything away from there, but
do you actually feel what we as Wellington is a
feeling right now?

Speaker 6 (01:34:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (01:34:55):
Look, I don't want to downplay the privilege that I have,
right so, I am the mayor of the city. I
have a house and I'm very I'm very thankful for that. However,
I I've just sold my car recently to kind of
help pay the bills, and I walked to work again,
and my mortgage rates have doubled in the last few years,

(01:35:18):
so I'm feeling the crunch as well.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Gentleman, bear with me. Here is the Wellington mayor on
Q and A this morning.

Speaker 22 (01:35:27):
Did you actually sell your car to pay the bill?

Speaker 21 (01:35:30):
I think that whole thing has been well canvassed over
the last few days.

Speaker 3 (01:35:35):
It is a distraction. We should be focusing on Wellington City.

Speaker 22 (01:35:38):
Okay, I will, but just just be totally clear with
us so we understand it and then I will move on.
Because a lot of people look at them, were like,
oh to faro is one hundred and ninety grand. Does
she really need to sell her card? I mean, did
you need to actually sell a car to pay the bills?

Speaker 21 (01:35:52):
No, I actually didn't. It's a shame because it was
taken out of context. It was an hour long interview.
You get a bit relaxed. I mean the main reason
actually was because it's a walkable city.

Speaker 8 (01:36:04):
Nick.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
Was it taken out of context?

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
I asked her if she knew how tough we were
doing it. We are doing it tough and well into
and that was her answer. But I think I almost
got thrown under the bus this morning. Didn't know. I mean,
it was an hour long interview and we got relaxed.
I mean, come on, I asked a question. I said,
do you know how tart it is? That was her response.

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
I don't think you got thrown under the bus. I
think she threw herself under the bus.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
Lay in Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:36:30):
I mean, Nick Kennedy dead to rights and still does.
And actually, at the end of the Q and A interview,
Jack Tame read out a statement for the Meryoral Office
where they said that after all, in the end, she
didn't tell I car in part to help with mortgage payments,
So there's three versions of the story now and it's incredible.

(01:36:52):
It's bizarre. I mean, this is somebody who won one
point three million dollars or more than that in two
thousand and three and goes on a big salary and
can't get a story straight about whether or not she owned,
whether or not she sold a car because she ends
meet It's bizarreans feel about it.

Speaker 8 (01:37:09):
Nick.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
I think it's well documented that Valentonian's vote to her
and voted toryan. She got a big majority, but I
think they are now reeling that that maybe they've made
a mistake. I think, you know, I think there's definitely
an underground or an on ground feeling that we've got
a problem in Wellington and our council as a whole.

(01:37:32):
I mean, she's one person and the mayor. We've got
a problem, and I think it's been well documented. Also
spoke to Chrystal A Luxan during a week on the show.
He seemed very reluctant to even bring an observer. And
I think people at Wellington right now are pretty clear
that they want something done. And I think the interview
today that was supposed to clear everything up and make

(01:37:52):
everything like Crystal Clear has made it more muddy than
a mud pull and wrote a ruin right now.

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
Yeah, I mean, I really don't care why she sold
a car, if she sold a car, or what's going
on there. But it's about performance and about consistency, isn't it. Liam?

Speaker 8 (01:38:06):
Well?

Speaker 13 (01:38:06):
I mean, look, put it this way, it's not the
first time in history that a politician has embellished a
story perhaps or trying to make out that they are,
you know, have more fellow feeling or are going through
the same things as the voters. It's happened before. It's
happened with Green end peace and politicians before politicians of

(01:38:27):
war parties. I guess the thing is is that if
you don't want to say it's an issue, don't make
it an issue, right, Don't make it an issue by
bringing it into the.

Speaker 8 (01:38:36):
Story and then.

Speaker 13 (01:38:39):
Having multiple versions of the explanation for why. So it's
it's just a massive own goal. And you know, the
complain about a distraction is pretty it's pretty lame when
you've caused the distraction.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
Really, the.

Speaker 5 (01:38:55):
Other thing is true that you know what when she
told me, you know, I actually felt for her because
I probably earned more than what the average person does,
but I'm doing it really tough, really tough. And so
if she is, I don't care what she's doing and
I don't care what she's won on lot, I don't
care all she's doing it tough. She's doing it tough. Yeah,
and fir on, why can't the mayor be doing it tough?

(01:39:16):
But to keep changing it? You know, it's okay, you know,
I'm all right, but by the way, well in tones,
I'm okay, Well we're not.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
Now something. We started off the show this morning by
talking about the Prime Minister mentioning on Friday that the
Coalition government plan to propose a referendum for four year
terms in twenty twenty six, something which we could also
apply to local council as well. It's an interesting one
because you have a referendum. It might seem at first

(01:39:45):
like it's a pretty easy yes and no ligam. But
then after sort of talking to constitutional law expert this morning,
Graham Edgela, it's actually not quite as black and white
as you think it will be, and it is a
little bit of a question of how much power you
prepared to hand over, how many chicks and balances do
we have in place, how will that impact kind of

(01:40:06):
voting the laws that we could do. It's a lot
murkier than I thought it would be this topic.

Speaker 13 (01:40:11):
Yeah, it's a bad idea in a country like New Zealand.
To me, that's pretty clear. You have to remember a
couple of things about New Zealand. It's a small country
where a unitary state, which means we only have one
level of government, one parliament, and where a resments system,
which means that the government has a lot of control
over what happens. And so most countries you have multiple

(01:40:33):
checks and balances, and the Lower House, which is what
we call the House of Representatives, does tend to have
short terms. In the United States it's two years. For example,
Australia is three years. And the route here is that
if we were to if we extend the term of
government in the term of parliament, what we are doing
is we are giving our politicians more power to do

(01:40:55):
things without checks and balances, and a system where they
have pretty much the most unlimited power of any parliament
in the world. And so it's one of those things
that seems like an easy Yes. It's like, I don't
want to sound rude, but I often think it's a
dumb person's idea of a smart idea, but you've got
to you've got to think actually pretty nique.

Speaker 7 (01:41:18):
And unless we actually have more.

Speaker 13 (01:41:19):
Checks and balances against the parliaments in there, we are
actually going to create the most powerful allegislature in the
whole world.

Speaker 3 (01:41:27):
And that's where it gets complicated them because you could
put more checks and balances and but then you're really
messing with the system. Then there's a lot more work
to be done on it.

Speaker 13 (01:41:34):
Right, Well, do we need to have a Senate?

Speaker 20 (01:41:37):
Then?

Speaker 13 (01:41:37):
You know, how do we elect the Senate? You know,
like you know, you know, we actually are pretty well
governed country all things considered. And you know, you look
at other countries in the world which you have longer
terms UK parliaments five years, Do they really make better
long term decisions than we do? Is the term of
government really the difference between a good government and a

(01:41:58):
bad government? I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
So next three or four years, what do you reckon?

Speaker 5 (01:42:01):
I think, and let it go to a racial endom
I don't have. I don't have a problem with people speaking.
But I tell you what, there'd be a two hundred
and fifty thousand people in the Wellington area. That would
be differently saying three years is long enough. Thank you
very much, but I just think I just think there
were a small population, small country. Three years is fine,
and if you're doing a good job, even if you
put the plans in place and you're starting a good job,

(01:42:23):
you're going to get voted back in. So that's six years,
you know, I think refereeing them, okay, that's fine. If
the people speak and want four years, let them have it.
I don't believe that it would. I think it would
be another case of a new flag. I've really honestly
believed that it would be an overwhelming majority that would
say three years is long enough, let's keep it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:42):
Nick Mills, Liam here, thanks so much for being on
the panel this morning. Nice to catch up with the
two of you. It's twenty four to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on news talks.

Speaker 3 (01:42:55):
Be coming up at mid day is Jason Pine with
Weekend Sport and he joins me, Now, good morning.

Speaker 23 (01:43:01):
Good morning.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
That was a game of rugby was.

Speaker 23 (01:43:04):
Now it was both of them were Now you're talking
about the small on them all last night.

Speaker 3 (01:43:07):
Shoot, Yes, let's start with this morning, let's start with
the All Blacks. As I said as I started off
talking to Elliot this morning, I said, I text my mum. Well,
my mother text me and she said, isn't this this
is such much more relaxing game, Franchesca, I'm song drowing
this and list about foot minutes sat expect. I mean,
how are you doing to It's not good? This is
just terrible.

Speaker 19 (01:43:24):
This is just terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:43:26):
So yeah, a bit of a rollercoaster ride for us all.
But tym loving the entertainment.

Speaker 23 (01:43:30):
Yes, absolutely. The first fifteen minutes I was exactly the same.
I was sort of leaning back in my seat with
a contented smile.

Speaker 3 (01:43:37):
Exactly.

Speaker 23 (01:43:38):
I care how many are we going to get? Is
this going to be sixty or seventy? But no, I mean, yeah,
I think a couple of things. You have to give
credit to Australia who were abject in the first fifteen minutes.
It was like their defense was almost an after thought. Really,
but they you know, they got themselves back into But
I know the All Blacks will be frustrated by their
lack of execution, particularly in the second half. The stat

(01:44:00):
continues to become front and center. They just can't seem
to find a way to score points in the last
twenty minutes. It doesn't happen. Help when you get yellow cards,
of course two of them. At one point they're all
blacks having a crack at rugby league. Only had thirteen
on the field. But look they'll take the blader slow
cut back. But there is still a lot to work
on for this all black side.

Speaker 3 (01:44:19):
I think there's gonna be a lot of talk on
this this afternoon. And then I'm sitting here this morning
and curiously, missus Live is Argentina actually beating South Africa.
So then there was it's a good thing I can
do two things at once. Yes, a show and what
you gave for rugby.

Speaker 23 (01:44:32):
I only had to watch the rugby thing on here.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
This is crazy.

Speaker 23 (01:44:36):
Yeah, and good on Argentina two. I've really enjoyed the
way they've played this year. If they can find a
way of being consistent, they will be a force in
world rugby. You know, they beat us, let's not forget
that in Wellington, but then couldn't back it up the
following week. They've beaten South Africa this morning at home.
Got to go to South Africa next week and try
and back it up to win the Rugby Championship. But
they've given themselves a chance and I.

Speaker 8 (01:44:57):
Quite like that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:57):
So lots of rugby this afternoon, pinty lots.

Speaker 23 (01:44:59):
Of rugby this afternoon, and other bits and pieces sprinkled
in two but yes, mainly focusing on the rugby franchise game.

Speaker 3 (01:45:06):
Very much looking forward to it. Thank you. Jason Pine.
Will be back with you at mid day today. Now
look ahead. A very quick text. Somebody said, look what
is one we're talking about the life hacks? Can you
see one of your hacks from Tony's book that you
plan to put into place? Lisa text me and she
asked me that, and I said, to be honest with you, Lisa,

(01:45:26):
or most of these I could do with putting into place,
but as a host on a talkbackstation and where we
like to share opinions and ideas and things. Heck nine
struck me. Train your mind to acknowledge that your reality
is just one of eight billion other realities. That is

(01:45:47):
something I'm keeping in mind. But there is so much
in here you can't miss it. Next time you're in
a bookshop, it's the bright yellow book. Have a little
flick through. It is a nineteen to twelve News Talks
THEREB Sunday with.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Windles for
the best Election of Great Reads, US talk Zebby Travel
with Wendy wo Tours unique fully Inclusive tours around the World.

Speaker 3 (01:46:16):
And our travel expert Megan Singleton joins us. Now, good morning,
good morning. Now, not that I am grasping for material
possessions after reading my life Hacks from a Buddha, but
I am quite interested to know what you discovered at
Marnaba Bay because this is the new Auckland Airport outlet mall.
They've been promoting it for quite a long time. It
looks like it's amazing sort of shops out there and things,

(01:46:39):
and I believe you took a trip.

Speaker 24 (01:46:42):
Well, I'm actually out here as we speak.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
How's traffic? Is it really busy?

Speaker 24 (01:46:47):
Yes, it is really busy. Look, there's fourteen hundred car
parking spaces. So while I would say from where I'm
sitting in the car right now, it looks absolutely packed,
there are still some spaces around. You can't come in
from Poenoi Road even though that's where you see it.
So where it's located and it wasn't quite where I
thought it was. It's right down by the estuary of

(01:47:08):
Punui Road, past Butterfly Creek if you were leaving the airport,
so it's a bit of a hike. You wouldn't walk
here from the airport. But I do think it does
create a great layover opportunity because I don't know if
you've ever you know, well, I've certainly got friends and
family that come through and then they've got several hours
between their international fight and their domestic flights, and there's

(01:47:29):
really nothing much to do unless you go all the
way into the city or into Manacaw or something like that.
So there's a hundred shops out here. There's sort of
all the main ones that we know and love, but
including there's Tommy Hill Figure, There's Calvin Klein, Hokers Shoes, Huffa.
People are walking around, I mean, honestly, what costs living costs?

Speaker 5 (01:47:49):
Screen chesca.

Speaker 24 (01:47:50):
People are walking around with their rollin guns bags and
the cafe for Lint, the Lint Chocolate Cafe. The line
never died down. I've been out here for around an
hour and a half.

Speaker 12 (01:48:00):
They're still huge.

Speaker 24 (01:48:02):
Like I don't know, people are just keen as mustard
to be out here shopping eating.

Speaker 5 (01:48:07):
There's a food court.

Speaker 24 (01:48:09):
There's an outdoor play area as well, which would be
quite good if you've had kids on a playing for
hours an hour. Now that's diage, give them a bit.

Speaker 5 (01:48:15):
Of a run around.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
It's really interesting the way you're talking about it, because
I thought this was just another outlet like the big
Dressmart and Onni Hunger that was available for shoppers, and
I was thinking, what an interesting place to put it.
We don't want lots more traffic going towards the airport
because we want to be able to get to our flights,
you know, we want you don't want a lot of
traffic going out there. But I see what you're saying.
So many hotels out at the airport. Now, we often

(01:48:36):
have family coming up from different parts of the country.
They have a night at a hotel, then they fly
out the next day. I get that. Now, this then
provides people with something to do, somewhere to go.

Speaker 24 (01:48:47):
Yeah, but it's only open ten till seven. But it
is seven days. But I still think we're lacking out
here an evening restaurant kind of situation, like when you're
dropping people for late flights or as you say people
have got an overnight unless they're eating in their hotel restaurant,
and not all the hotels have them. We're still a
little bit lasking out here. I think somewhere you know,

(01:49:09):
to go to for dinner, there's a food court, there's
a say the More closes at seven. So yeah, but
that's what that's what I think. The whole the whole
angle is for me and for travelers and stuff. You
sort of there off and you'd come down past Jk's
Gulf World. You wouldn't go all the way into that
airport road, but you'd Yeah, you still are causing a
bit of well at the moment, you're causing a bit

(01:49:30):
of a rucket with the traffic getting here. That you know,
it's quite doable for a pleasant day, and yeah, lots
of reasons to get out here. I think.

Speaker 3 (01:49:39):
Well, I'm pleased to hear Megan that obviously it's it's
going off with the bang and that they're having a
good opening weekend. Are you just going to are you
just gonna is in the car and recover now or
are you.

Speaker 7 (01:49:51):
Going yes, no, I'm gone, I'm done.

Speaker 12 (01:49:56):
I've done.

Speaker 8 (01:49:57):
No.

Speaker 24 (01:49:57):
There's a lot of people, I mean if you don't
like crowds, you don't come today. Anyway, Wait a little,
they're actually running really especials until today.

Speaker 5 (01:50:05):
So they have sort of the soft launch from Thursday to.

Speaker 24 (01:50:08):
Sunday and then I think it sort of kicks onto
regular gears from next week. So we'll see how if
it sort of calls off a little bit. But you know,
as they'd say, with fourteen hundred car packs, they expect it.

Speaker 12 (01:50:18):
And I'll tell you what. The design of the building.
I'm looking at it right now. It's so fantastic.

Speaker 24 (01:50:22):
It looks really really good right on the edge of
the estuary. They've planted it. Well, it's just going to
be a great little spot.

Speaker 3 (01:50:29):
Mecan, thank you for heading out there and checking it
out for us. That was Manama Bay. It is twelve
to twelve News Talks eb.

Speaker 2 (01:50:37):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Greg reads.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Time to Talk Books and Joan mackenzie joins me. Now,
good morning, Hello, Liscinda Riley is back with a new book.

Speaker 25 (01:50:47):
She is now Some listeners who are big fans of
Lucindal Riley will know that she sadly is no longer
with us, but she finished her seven Sisters series which
has beloved by so many people. With the help of
his son, Harry Whittaker, and he has now gone back
to the very first book that she ever wrote, which
was called Hidden Beauty back in the day, and it

(01:51:09):
was written under a different name. I assume it was
her maiden name, and he's edited it and just brought
it more into modern consciousness. And so yes, we do
we have a new less under Riley, which is very exciting, right,
And so he doesn't get a sort of a co
authored no credit for it and I looked on the
cover specifically for that, but no, which is interesting. I
am told that this book has never been published or

(01:51:31):
available in New Zealand. So for Lucinda Riley fans, it's
a big streat and it's a story that's told essentially
in two timelines. There's a young girl called Leo who's
living in Yorkshire. She has a close but very unequal
relationship with another family in town, and it turns out
that the woman in that house was once a very
famous artist who was a real leader of her generation.

(01:51:54):
And when that woman's nephew comes to stay, he draws
a beautiful portrait of this girl, Leah and one day
a bunch of fashionistas see it hanging in a gallery
in New York and they track her down and take
her from Yorkshire to become a supermodel on the international stage. Now,
the other timeline that I referred to is World War

(01:52:14):
II related. It's about a couple of siblings who come
through the Holocaust and how their life is in some
way aligned to and integrated with the story that's going
on in the modern time with the supermodel classic LESSONDEREII.
It's you know, rags to riches, it's mean streets to Broadway,
it's got everything.

Speaker 3 (01:52:35):
Joan, I'm sure that, like me, you were a young
thing in nineteen eighty there was once was a siege
of the Iranian embassy in London. But I can still
remember the images. I know it was visceral, wasn't it. Yeah, yeah,
very much so.

Speaker 25 (01:52:50):
Yeah, So for anybody who doesn't recall that time in
nineteen eighty, there was a group of six terrorists who
went into the Iranian embassy in London and took twenty
six people hostage. And the thing about it was this
grabbed international attention because it went on for six days,
and it was the first time ever that all of
the TV cameras had turned up for such a significant

(01:53:11):
event which then played around the world. And because the
cameras were there, what the public got to see was
that when the ESAs were finally called in to try
and bring an end to this siege, they were up
on the roof of the embassy and they abseiled down
and got in through the windows, and the whole thing
was televised worldwide. I was fascinated that the group of

(01:53:31):
politicians and officials who were in the situation room at
Parliament were being feared information about what was going on
by one of their staff who was on the telephone
getting updates, and he was passing the updates to what
they called the Cobra team. But they had three televisions
in the room and they didn't realize it was on,
so they could have turned the TVs on and seeing

(01:53:52):
what the rest of the world was looking at, which
is quite extraordinary. But there's some really interesting tidbits in here.
Prince Andrew was twenty years old there was this crisis
going on. He got in touch and said that he
would really like to come and visit the site and
have lunch, and they managed to dissuade him.

Speaker 3 (01:54:07):
But there you go. So this is all being captured
by Ben McIntire in a book called The Siege. Yes,
and he's done a brilliant job. Okay, awesome, Thank you
so much. I'm very interested in that because, as I said,
I heard this very clear memory of it and just
being quite transfixed by it. The Siege by Ben McIntire
was that book we were just talking about. And also

(01:54:27):
Lis cinder Riley. Her new book was called The Hidden Girl.
Thank you so much, Joan, see you keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of a great Relis News talk.

Speaker 3 (01:54:41):
Zenby, thank you so much for joining me this morning
on the Sunday Session. Thank you to Kerry for producing
the show. Jason Pine is up next and he has
got a lot to cover, including the rugby and I
know he's very keen to hear your thoughts. A lot
of talking points from the game this morning. Hey join
me next week on a Sunday Session. My guest is
Gina Chick. She was the winner of Alone Australia. She's

(01:55:03):
releasing autobiography. She joins me to talk spending sixty seven
days in the Tasmanian Wilderness in order to win a
lone Australia. She wouldn't stayed out there for even longer
if they met her anyway, She has a remarkable story
to tell, so very much looking forward to meeting her
next Sunday. And Christine Jeff's New Zealand filmmaker is with

(01:55:25):
me to talk about her brand new film. It is
absolutely fantastic. It stars Elizabeth Banks. It's called a Mistake.
So I look forward to your company next Sunday. Have
a great afternoon, take care.

Speaker 2 (01:55:38):
Last.

Speaker 3 (01:55:40):
Ask you for lasting love.

Speaker 5 (01:56:04):
Love.

Speaker 1 (01:56:06):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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