The Sunday Panel: How will Joe Biden be remembered?

This week on the Sunday Panel, commentator, journalist and producer Irene Gardiner and partner at Freebairn and Hehir Lawyers, Liam Hehir, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the week - and more!

Prime Minister Chris Luxon's announced a surprise Cabinet reshuffle for this afternoon - and speculation indicates Shane Reti will lose his health portfolio. Are we surprised by this?

With Donald Trump's inauguration day taking place next week, we're looking back on Joe Biden's political legacy. How will he be remembered as a President? What were his best moments - and low points?  

Sail GP is taking place in Auckland this weekend - what do we make of this?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it is time now for the Sunday Session Panel.
And I'm joined by commentator, TV producer and journalist Irene Gardner. Hi, Irene, Hi, Yeah,
good to have you back with us in twenty twenty five.
And also I'm joined by partner at Freemant and Heir Lawyers,
Liam here. How are you Liam?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm very well, Thank you, good morning and having new
year both of you.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
And to you. Can we please start with the news
that doctor Shane Letty may be set to lose his
health portfolio in a reshuffle that the Prime Minister is
going to announce at three o'clock today, Liam, are you
surprised by this?

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Not really?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I think you know this portfolio is a real Alshon's
graveyard of ministers. I mean, it doesn't go well for
very many people who hold the portfolio. And whatever skills
doctor Ritty has, and presumably they're quite good skills, not
a very assertive or you know in the portfolio that

(01:11):
looks like it's going to require quite active hands on
management and strong will and a driving force that Doc
Rety just doesn't fit their bill and never has. I
suppose the thing is he was thought suitable for the
role because he is a he's a medical doctor and
he's got a background in a health administration. But being
a Minister for Health is a completely different skill set.

(01:33):
And so it's going through whoever has the job. Probably
some of you in Brown is going to find it
a tough one, but said I wouldn't be. I'm not
surprised that doctor Vicky hasn't hasn't lasted in the role.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
What are your thoughts on this, Irene? As Liam said, there,
this is his will house. He he you know, he
is a doctor. He has in depth knowledge and understanding
is the sort of the health portfolio, but he just
hasn't been up to I mean it is it is
a portfolio in very tricky situation at the moment.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Oh yes, as Liam says, I mean the health portfolio
is is is hell really and it kind of always is,
but it particularly is at the moment. I find it
quite sad in a way because he strikes me as
a very good and decent human being and a softer
style of politician, and I like that we have some

(02:24):
of those, and I think this soulition government suffers a
little from sometimes sounding really quite harsh, and I think
that's going to hurt them in the longer term. I
appreciate that people do like the fast, get things done
kind of style, but you need to have some humanity
within that, and I do think they're going to potentially

(02:45):
come acropper on that. So in a way, I mean, yes,
I guess he maybe just isn't the right person to
this gurg at this time, and they need someone who
is more of a hardliner. But it does make me
feel quite sad if he is going to see that happen,
and I hope he is still used in ways that

(03:06):
are more suitable to what he has to offer.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I mean, is it a sign of how big the
job is or his capability? Do you think?

Speaker 4 (03:16):
I mean, I think it's probably both, and possibly more
the former. It really is the hell portfolio, And yeah,
I don't know. I've also some of got the feeling
that with a government that's trying to be tough on
a lot of things and cut back on a lot
of things in many cases for good reasons, I've always

(03:40):
felt that he has sometimes appeared like he's defending things
he doesn't want to have to be defending that he
felt a little uncomfortable in the role, So I mean,
who knows, maybe he'll feel it's related.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
The problem of health in particular is that you could
always spend more on health, right, and anything you cut
from health is going to be unpopular. And you're also
going to have a lot of resistance because you've got
a lot of different moving parts, you've got a lot
of different agencies, you get a lot of different objectives
to work towards. So unless you're actually you know, and
what the problem is that if you are a conciliator,
a conciliator or a consensus seeker or someone who who's

(04:18):
going to to be quite you know, receptive for the
vested interests, you're going to end up sort of pleasing nobody, right,
And sometimes it's better to be effective and annoy people,
be effective and get things done, rather than you know,
sort of be consiliatory and also get not get much

(04:38):
done and also actually annoy everyone because you actually can't
deliver on what everyone wants. People have infinite needs when
it comes to this portfolio, and I just I'm just
not sure it's suited to somebody who's not willing to be.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Unpopular, because I was wondering Liam whether sorry, sorry, I
mean I was wondering Liam whether it was they wanted
a better political operator to communicate to the public or
to actually get things moving within the portfolio, and it
seems like it's both.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, I think I do think it's Boat. And that's
why I wouldn't be surprised if that was Simon Brown.
He's sort of he's sort of playing that Chris Hopkins
the world world that Chris Sipkins played for cinder Adur,
and he's he's also he's really some Simin Brown is
someone who's got two things going for him. First of all,
he's excellent staff. He's got excellent advisors who have been

(05:26):
with him for a long time. And secondly, something he
learned his ministerial styles from Judith Collins. And whatever you
think about Judith Collins, she's actually a very good minister
in whatever portfolio she has. And she's also popular with
officials because she makes decisions, she doesn't leave them guessing,
she doesn't leave people hanging or uncertain about what the

(05:48):
direction is. And so I think it's right to the
end of last year, we talked about her about our
politicians of the year was and I said it was
Samin Brown, and I think he's going to get another
responsibility today and for the same reason, I think look
for Judith Collins to move out the ranks as well. Ah.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Interesting, Yes, so it is suggested that one minister will
lose their ministerial position. Any idea, Ireni could you pluck?
Could you look into your crystal ball and anticipate who
that could be?

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Was the suggestion that it was a minister outside of Kebnet. Yes,
I I don't have any particular intel. They and Mike
Seeds a bit more of that world than me. I mean,
I guess the person who's had rather too many gas
and might be vulnerable is Andrew Bailey. And then I mean,
I suppose you might say that Melissa Lee hasn't really

(06:39):
bounced back from her earlier demotion. So I don't know.
Perhaps they're vulnerable, but Liam may have some inside oil
that I don't have. I tried.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
I tried, but the all the friends that I have
clammed up. They want to close it. Annoying. Yeah, but
Kenny Simmons, you know, as another possibility, maybe you Matt Doocy,
I think you know those people who just haven't made
as much of an impact. But there's a shop pole
for National last week where they actually dipped below Labor.

(07:10):
I think this was coming anyway, simply because Luxon said
at the outset that he was going to, you know,
hold quarterly reviews, he was going to have kfurs and
he was going to be pretty ruthless and getting rid
of people. He actually can only get rid of people
in his own caucus. He can't deal with and hiss
Infirst or Act ministers, so he's going to be extra
ruthless with his own people, which is a bit unfair

(07:31):
on them. But it's the break.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's a really good point we should make that
we should make that really clear. This reshuffle that's been
announced as afternoon as of national ministers only and does
not impact on coalition partners. And this is also the
first time that he has done a sort of a
proper reshuffle, so it's given everyone, you know, given them
more thirteen months or so, which I think is fair Biden.

(07:54):
President Biden. Of course, a lot of people are looking
back on his legacy at the moment, and you know,
is the transition kind of kicks off a lot of
people would say his main drole was to prevent President
Trump winning the election, and he, unfortunately, you know, wasn't
able to do that, and that has a bit of

(08:15):
an impact on his legacy. But I think there's an
awful lot more that he has accomplished in his four years,
whether it's to do with the climate, or infrastructure or
getting people into jobs. Inflation obviously a big issue, Liam,
but you know, he's managed to keep the economy kind
of keep the economy going again after COVID.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, the American economy is actually really strong. It's quite funny.
But look, look, I think what this goes to show
is something that all states people have to have sort
of set at some point, which is that they do
not control their own legacies or a great extent. If
Kamala Harris had one, Joe Biden would look like he
had accomplished his mission of keeping Trump out, Like you know,

(08:56):
he hit him out twenty twenty, so that's big. But
then the thingers Trump's come back in and with a
greater mandate than ever and more determined than ever, so
he sailed on that front. But if Harris had won,
he would have looked like the most statesman like a
far sighted, sex self sacrificing person. But unfortunately, because that's
not how the cookies crumbled, he sort of I know

(09:17):
it seems unfair, but he's just going to be remembered
for the fact that he was dotttery and old and
humiliated by his own party, and for no great purpose
given that has replaced the loss anyway, And you know
that's maybe history will be kinder in years to come,
but I think, you know, for the for the time being,
he's going to be settled with that unfortunate legacy.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I think that will change over time.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
I ring wind it, I think so. I think he'll
be remembered well with a bit more time. I've actually
had a lot of time for him. I think he's
a really good and decent human being, a good across
the aisle, you know, politician and deal maker. He came
in in an incredibly weird time. I mean, thank god
he did get him, because at least gave us a

(10:01):
four year break from the circus of Trump and looking.
He has done a good job. Economy's in good shape,
you know, post COVID, He's done all the right things.
He's tried to work across the aisle hasn't always worked.
I think Israel has really dogged him and the Democrats,
and yet it is so very complicated. I just don't

(10:22):
know how you ever do the right thing as an
American president. But yeah, so I think with time, all
the good things he's done will come to the fore.
And you never know, maybe, as he had stayed in
the race, maybe a boring old white man is actually
what it would have taken date Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
We will never know, well he thinks. So just very
quickly before you go, Irena, you and are you caught
up and got obsessed with the salgp taking place in Auckland.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Ah, what I know about sailing Franciski because right on
the back of a very small posted stamp. However, I
do have a friend and Stanley Point, who hasn't beck
with an incredible view of it all. So I'm going
over there this afternoon to have a glass with a
few people and look at the pretty yacht.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.