April 13, 2025 • 41 mins
Just when they should be at their peak, older generations are being discriminated against for their age.
Do we no longer value experience?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Weapon Classes. I wanted to let that roll for
(00:42):
a little bit, but I guess we'd better get on
and do our job. Welcome, Welcome back to the Weekend
Collective on tim beverage and by the way, a fascinating
chat in the previous hour for the Health hab with
Dr Mark Williams Neuroscience about just the effect of devices
on our on our health and actually the scariest thing
was basically the fact that we're just becoming dumber because
the devices and IQ rates of declining. So if you
(01:03):
wanted a reason to get off your phone, there's a
good one. Anyway, if you want to check out anto
the previous hours and me to chat with Peter Dunn
about the Luxeen and Winston having a crack at luxon
for talking to world leaders and getting ahead of it.
Should have talked to Winston first. And then we had
a chat with David Carter, former Speaker of the House
and Minister of Local Government about just celebrities and voting
(01:26):
for them just because we recognize the name for our mayors.
You can go and check out our podcast look for
the Weekend Collective on the News talks he Be website.
We'll go to iHeartRadio. But right now it's time for
another hour, which'll be can checking out in the podcast
if you're not listening to it live. It is smart money.
My guest is he's an employment relation expert. He doesn't
really need much of an introduction to this audience. I
(01:47):
think if you've been listening to The Weekend Collective for
a while, you'll be familiar with the tone, the dulcet
tones of Max Whitehead go a Max, how you going?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Hey, you've had an exciting build up to the show,
because really, some really good stuff's been happening. By the sound,
I wish I was there. I mean, because that your
last segment that adolescens. I just watched that segment of
Man it touched me.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It really is that that. That's a Netflix thing.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I've got children. You should see it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, they're going to.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Put it into schools.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's going to be Yeah, apparently it's quite heavy going too,
I think, isn't it? But yeah, I'll have to check
it out. I'm busy watching something light and fluffy mine.
You're also I'm enjoying the f one at the moment
you're following the F one and all the fortunes of
Liam Lawson and all that.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh well, I just followed him, of course. And then
then I think the TA B said that they put
him something special on for him and if you bet
for him, and then I realized that the odds can't
be good for him. No, I didn't expect him to win.
But you know, a bit sad he got pushed aside,
but that's life.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah. Well, now we want your calls on eight hundred
eighty ten eight. And look, if there's any issue that
you're concerned about with your either as an employer or
as an employee, give us a call. And I'm sure
maxud I love to give you the benefit of his
wisdom and experience on eight hundred eighty text nine two
(03:06):
ninety two. But we always like to kick things off
with a couple of angles of conversation for you to
digest and participate on. And the first one is is
there a stigma around age getting old? And should we
be valuing age a little more than sort of looking
(03:27):
at people and thinking, oh, they're getting towards sixty five
and start to write people off and case and point,
and the reason for this discussion is Winston Peters. Much
as you know, we might have heard some criticisms of
them before by Peter Dunn about his motives for having
a crack at Luxon and all that. And look, Winston Winston,
the wily old politician, the co Martyr of New Zealand Parliament.
(03:49):
He's he's been doing it for a long time. He's
eighty years old now. And yet who would question whether
Winston is not up to the job, Because clearly Winston
is up to the job. He's received huge plaudits for
the job that he does as Foreign Affairs Minister. I
(04:10):
would say that the average punter who follows politics with
more than a passing interest would look at Winston and think,
you know what, regardless of my opinion of him or
whether I vote for him as a foreign minister, at
the age of eighty, the guy is he's rocking and rolling.
So is that an example of why we should not
write off older people and that age is just a number.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well, you got to think about it. It's a great
discussion because we got Winston, who is wiley. I think
he really is. But by goodness, I've been around a
long time, so I remember the days when he skinned
his knees and he was an embarrassment and I remember
the time when he got throwing out of the National
Party for that particular reason. And he's made some silly
statements in the early days. But now he can read
(04:55):
politics better than anybody and he's proven that again and again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
There's also a lesson there and just persistence, isn't it,
you know, I mean he's plead Knox member. He got
I mean he got ended up out of parliament after
you know, when people decided that I had enough in
New Zealand first and he was out and then he's back.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Jim Boljas kicked him out and he's held a grudge
against the National Party for years, but he's back with
him now. But you know, the other thing is the
President of the United States is about the same age, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
He is, well, actually in the former president of the
United States is around the same age as well.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah yeah, and look at the performance difference. It's completely
you know, the previous president really struggled and his age
really showed him that last year. So he's witty, he's smart,
he's electric, but he's thinking he can actually beat the hecklers.
He really does performing well and his brain is super
sharp trumpy. Well, I don't know what goes on in
(05:52):
his brain. I don't think anyone else does. But what
we got is somebody courageous. But there's that reckless because
he's getting old as well. But he's really really doing
some changes to the world.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, let's get onto the Can you you can't discriminate
against people based on their gender? Generally, I don't think
you can, And generally I wouldn't think you can discriminate
against them on age. But can you discriminate against people
on age?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, the Human Rights ex specifies it. No, you cannot.
So if employers have problems of this, So a person's
becoming elderly, they're becoming slower, they be a bit more less,
can't respond quick quick enough and even physically.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's a performance issue, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, And that's how they've got to treat it. But
not with age.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Whereas if you turn up for a job and you
happen to be, you know, in your seventies or something,
and you demonstrate you can do the job, age shouldn't
be a barrier to you.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, it should not, And but yet it is. I
can say to you now because I'm getting into that
older age group and never I just adjust my nappy.
But just but what I was just about to say is,
you know, it definitely is a barrier out there. It's subconscient,
but right through New Zealand. You actually look at in
(07:07):
your world. You know, radio stars and things in Australia
they're much older. TV celebrities are the really good ones
are much older. There's not many older ones here compared
to what's happening in Australia. They're in New Zealand. We
do judge people on age, and we shouldn't we should
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Guess there are certain industries where age is not such
a barrier that you know, the older yet you deem
to have a bit more life experience and dealing with things.
Probably actually this this gig can talk back. If you're
you know, if you're around fifty, you're a youngster.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, well yes, well possibly, but I mean you've got
to have some intelligence for your sort of work as well,
and you've got to be quick witted, and you've got
to be able to handle, you know, situations that can
be a bit risky and do it lightning fast. What
if I mean what are diplomacy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What can are there ways that older people who still
want to continue working, Because the other reason we're talking
about this, they are an increasingly large number of people
who working beyond the age of sixty five. And I
think I saw some frightening status to what younger people
thought how long they were going to work for and
there was quite a large number. I need to find
that stat actually about how many people thought they would
(08:18):
be stopping at sixty five, and it was a minority,
I think, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, it was. And of course nowadays people are wanting
to come back. If anything, the older people are the
pension doesn't quite give you that luxurious, nice living standard
as you had before. Now there's a couple of things
that older people should do if they want to get
back in the workforce, and that is one. There's a
perception out there that you're going to want more money.
I actually talked to an HR person today just because
(08:43):
I knew this was coming up, and she said that
we actually have a feeling that people are going to
of the older generation will be expecting high money. That's
one that surprises me.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I would have thought, because.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You've been around a long time, and you do have
the experience. You've been in the industry for years and
years and years, and you've had increments every year to
take you up. And of course you will be expensive.
So older people, you've got to say that I'm at
reasonable cost. My expectations aren't beyond what's reasonable. The other
thing is technology, because that's a barrier old The people
(09:17):
that are making decisions expect you because you're older, you're
not savvy with tech. You need to get up there.
You need to keep right up to what's going on,
and particularly with AI right now, because that's going to
change the world. Now. If you're right up to date
and even ahead of some of the younger people, you're
going to be a head for that job. Interview as well,
I would say, because the employer will be looking at it.
(09:38):
So the way to actually sell it, if I was
you would say, hey, I'm very much aware of it.
I may be using AI myself, however I do it
cautiously because I don't know where it's going to go.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Actually, are people allowed to know how old you are
for a job. No, unless it's something where there's a
prescribed by law thing like I don't think there's an age,
which you can be a commercial pilot or something.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, what we advise, we've have for years and years
and years of employers, and I work for the EMA
Employees Association, do not ever ask their age because then
you're up for an allegation of discrimination.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So you actually cannot even ask someone. Look, you don't
have to tell me. Can you say, Look, you don't
have to tell me, but how old are you?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Can you say what years were you?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's not advisable.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Can you ask them what year did you go to
that school?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You could ask them that, but I mean again, they
could use that and say he knew that I was
touching on fifty nine and mine's going to get a
pension next year or whatever, and then discriminated against me.
I mean, you just don't want to get into legal
action against you because you're going to turn that that
person down. They will then claim what was the reason, Oh,
(10:50):
it's because of my age. I'll sue the buggers.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
God, we'd love your calls on this. Eight hundred and
eighty ten. Aady, are you someone who's older who's looking
at keeping working or getting a job, and how do
you handle the question of age or do you believe
that we are, that we stigmatize and look at older
people in a negative way, when in fact they might
have a lot to offer. Case in point, as I say,
(11:15):
just because he's out his eightieth birthday, Winston Peters. To
be honest, if you didn't have a Minister of Foreign
Affairs and you could just hire anyone and Winston was available,
he'd be like, let's have a chat with Whney, wouldn't
you You'd hire them, good high Whinny, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Well, yeah, I'd go to him for advice. Hey, what's
going to happen in the future. He seems to better
predict it rather well because he's how often is here
the balance of power? The whole population don't get this privilege.
He's at it so many times. He's actually told us
who we're going to have in parliament, told us what anyway?
Enough of Winston.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Hey, let's take some calls. Where are we up to?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Let's go to Tom, Hey, Tom Max waited here, it's.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Tom here. I've got a performance issue, which you just
mentioned before at my work. I just want to ask
your opinion about my situation, if that's okay.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, sure. Have you been accused of poor performance.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Yes, and so I don't want to need to be
careful about not reguining my who I work for. But
so I work for a large government department, and have.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
They given you a performance improvement plan?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
They're about two yes?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
So well, firstly, so the work I do is office based,
and we receive applications from members of the public which
we need to process and we need to evaluate the applicants,
how the applicants meets various government policies and determine various
(12:52):
risk factors. Can get very complicated, and so I've been
told that I'm about ten or twenty below the weekly output.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So Tom, the big key here for you is that
you are entitled to a lot of information which I
guarantee you haven't had. You might surprise me government departments
of HR departments that can spend all day preparing this stuff.
But anyway, what you can what you should be asking
for is what exactly have I done that I've let
you down that you think I'm not performing?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I want you to name the dates, the time, the
people involved, the conversations that actually give you that right
that evidence. Can you give me five examples please, and
then specify you want facts, not just you want you
want facts, not just opinions.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So sorry, what are the rest of the what's the
rest of the story. What's where you're at with at
the moment?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Okay, So I I've had a few meets my manager,
and I mean so our workers can be get quite
assessed as well, and so my my quity is very
good to excellent for last few months. There's no problem
my quarity. And I sit to my manager just last week,
I said, are there any other issues with my employment?
(14:09):
Which is an issue? There's no, not at all. Just
your output is below our expectations. So my question is
there's that enough for them to put me on a
performance plan? And so they he's first giving me six
weeks ago on what he calls informal performance plan. But boy,
is like five pages of documents which I need to sign,
(14:30):
and there's expectations per week for every six weeks. And
if I don't meet the expectations and that six weeks,
then I go on a formal performance plan. And I
was told that if I don't meet expectations after three
months on the formal performance plan, then I could be
down the road. I'll be down the road.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Tom can I just ask you before we get into
this further, do you know how were you set in
terms of your output with other other people?
Speaker 6 (14:59):
And asked that?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So where I worked, there is I mean, I mean nationwide,
there are thousands of employees, and where I work, there's
probably I'm not sure exactly about probably four hundred plus
employees where I work. I mean, we all do different
types of work, that's all kind of similar. And I'm
absolutely certain I'm not the only person who's not meeting
their target requirements. And I have asked that of them
(15:22):
and they say, no, we can't talk to other people
wause it's private information.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh Okay, there's a lot to dig into here, isn't there?
Max you get into it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Okay, well I go back back by the time I
go right back to where I started. What I advise
you to do is ask some questions, get some facts.
You have been accused of something, you should ask them
and put this in writing for me or for anybody
might want to represent you that you've asked them to
provide the facts to support their allegation of poor performance.
(15:52):
And look, you've just made a very good point there.
You know, where do you stand compared to your peers.
I mean that's a question you can ask, is anyone
else performing at this level? I mean those sort of
questions you've got to write to put forward. Sorry, Tom,
you spoke, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
So who's the reply to that? Was that more than
half of two teams who do the same work as
I do, more than half of the staff who do
the same week as I are meeting expectations. So I
don't know what that means. More than half is that
there's tety percent who aren't.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So in writing put it in right? So I asked
the boss, can you please give me some responses in writing?
Because I'm getting advice on this and my advisor needs
to see what you've got to help how you respond
to these questions? Ah?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
So what I do is very much computer based, so
they've got time and you know, all these apicases we get,
it's all done in the computer, so that he has
got statistics to show that on a week, on a monthly, weekly,
a monthly basis, my output is so much and so
much and I'm not meeting the expectations of Has he
given this to you?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Tom?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Can? I can? I ask Tom?
Speaker 5 (16:59):
He is?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
He not exactly? But he has got the end he
would give it to me. I know that you do.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You get a sense. I've just a couple of questions,
a bit of guess where here. But firstly I've got
a text asking have is this a new manager.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Last six months? But I think I think he might
be getting directions from higher up. I've been I've been
at this organization for like just over twenty years now
and two years from the retirement or two years from
sixty five, and I've got a good history and good
record with them. My output very goes up and down,
(17:38):
but I've got a very good attendance. I turned to
work every day I've had them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I'm just interrupted you because you know we should move on.
But I was just going to say to you that
really we've got. What you've got to do is we're
so careful, so careful that you don't sign off any
of those new rules he's putting in front of you.
He'll be even giving you some KPIs key performance issues,
(18:06):
standards to indicators that you're going to have to get
to and you might use the words back, are you
setting me up to fail? And because that's possibly what
he's trying to do, and say I'm reluctant to sign
this off until I'm satisfied that it's fear and reasonable person.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
My main question is, if I don't meet the I
don't meet the expectations after the formal performance plan and
review after several months, is that enough to dismiss someone?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, it is if you fail again right through. But
they if you challenge them, if you came to someone
like me and we challenge them, They've got to show
there was enough justification for them to dismiss you. And
that's what I'm asking you to do now, is to
ask them for that information now, to justify what their
actions are and why they're coming at you, because I
(19:00):
can sense it from you, Tom, You've bewildered at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Can I also ask Tom, do you have a sense
that they are doing in these performance reviews as a
way of reducing numbers within your workplace, and so they've
simply changed the goalposts so they can find a bunch
of people who don't quite meet what their targets are.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. I mean,
it's a speak of one as a big organization. So
we haven't had any you know, in the last year
with government cutbacks. We haven't had significant cutbacks.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I really don't know, so I'll help you there. Because
normally it's easier to make somebody redundant than it is
to actually get them for flight issues. So it's quicker.
It's a quicker way of doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Cheaper to get them for performance issue though, isn't it possibly?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah? Because I mean twenty years of service where Tom is,
he's going to be a costly person to get out
the door.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
So first long told any redundancy or know that?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, okay, hey, looks stay on the line. We'll move
on Tom. But stay listening because I just want to
ask Max, So what a Tom's just remind us. I'm
sure there are plenty of people who will have these issues.
If you suspect you're being managed out of your job.
What are his first actions?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Now?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
First thing he should do is go back and ask
for facts and ask for it in writing because he
needs to get advice, and before he signs off, and
then when he's asked again sign the document, he should
since say I don't like I don't I don't feel
comfortable signing this because you're setting me up to fail.
If he's got a good reason and six months in
(20:30):
the job, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Been twenty years there. See. That seems to me that
if someone can be successful and be in a position
for twenty years to suddenly be managed out of a job.
Because the thing that raises alarm for me is are
they shifting the goalposts from the gig that you've been
doing consistently and acceptably for twenty years? So how could
(20:53):
it have changed? He would, he'd be there must be
a way of raising that. It's like, hang on a minute,
twenty years. I've been doing fine. This has never been
raised with him before. I haven't changed my output. It's
as it has been for the last twenty years. You're
shifting the goal pace to.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Get rim what's happened? And he's already told us so.
A couple of levels up, there's been a new manager coming.
The new manager and that's what already A Texas is
mentioned to you. The new managers come in. I'm going
to make a name for myself here. I'll get rid
of the dead wood.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Tom's they But if you've been successful in a job
for twenty years, they can't suddenly go Oh, by the
way we've set these are your targets. Now, if you
don't meet them, we're going to performance manage you out.
That doesn't feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Now they want time to sign it. You've got my boat,
You've got my advice on both days. First, get the
facts and the second mine is do not sign it
until you're comfortable that you can achieve those things.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Okay, So hopefully that's good advice for your tom and
you know, otherwise, get some advice. I'm sure people want
to get it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
And Tim, I'm going to tell you that there's going
to be callers now, because this happens every day in
my world. I'll get callers from everybody and the new
managers come in and he wants to show the boss
how wonderful he is cleaning out the dude would and
get the performance back up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Gosh, that sounds like a challenging scenario, doesn't it. Right, Hey, look,
we'll be back in just a moment. It's twenty eight
and a half past five.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Sitting.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Living's welcome back to the week and collective. This is
smart money. My guess is Max Whitehead, as we all know,
an employment relations expert talking well, we've been talking about
age as well, but the last conversation has thrown up
the question around how do you how can you avoid
being performanced managed out of a job. But any questions
you've got around your employment relationship, whether it be as
(22:47):
a boss or an employee, you give us a call,
Helen Hello.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
Oh hello, Kevin Max. Now this thing about our discrimination
on age Tony Sorry. Peter Bouchi is the chief on vidsman.
He has been forced out of his job. His frames
is as good as it ever was, simply because he
turned twenty egoes, he's turned seventy two. And when they
(23:13):
did that revise the legislation to bring that in, they
didn't change that, so that the Ombuton's office, you know,
he had to go by because he was seventy two
and no other reason.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, well that's a separate that's a separate act of parliament.
I guess that's the way it is.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Tim was just telling me that during the break, because
I mean, there is a human rights tech which affects
all of us ordinary people, but that person is deemed
to be somebody pretty special, and that's so they passed
an act of parliament. He was he's gone, isn't he?
Speaker 8 (23:46):
I think? So he's yeah, sharp as attack. You know,
I doesn't want to go and doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
We get judges like that and they get right up
there in terms of age, but you know that they
can't stay too long either because of the he gets
up to that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I actually think there is another reason for that as well, though, Helen,
is that the Ombudsman is someone who reviews actions of
the government and the public service. So he has actually
a very powerful role. And so if he was if
he was getting older and hanging on to the job
even though maybe he wasn't as good as it, it's
(24:23):
very difficult for the government to say it's time for
you to go when because it looks it could look
bad that they're doing it because they don't like the
decisions he's arriving at. So the Act the Act probably
is necessary from the point of view of like it
just removes that uncomfortable issue of having to say to
(24:44):
the ombudsmen, will you're done, sunshine?
Speaker 8 (24:47):
I can see that, I could see that, but.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just you know, a lot of those senior roles have
fixed term just specifically for that, but they don't mention
age quite often, but this one they do.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, So actually it's a strange one because you think
they can amount that just by simply saying you've got
a five year term and maybe have something in there
that if somehow we've got questions around your cognitive ability,
you have to do a pass an assessment. Oh it
all gets complicated, doesn't max.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well, it does. There's so much it does. And we
see these legislations that are conflicting with each other, and
the judge, particularly in the High Court and some of
those other ones have to make a decision which which
legislation will take prison in here, and they do it
quite frequently.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Here's one I've gotten. I've been in a telco forty
nine years, very experienced up to date forced us into
owner operator. They've just offered me a contract. W's reduced
my ind come by forty percent from a year ago.
I barely survive now, so I'll be below minimum wage.
No wonder they have problems in the North Island to
the with internet outages.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Bloody hell is this chorus? I think now? It doesn't
say they went and gave them made them contractors, And
my goodness, that's that's really s And I would say
that if your skills, surely you can get another job
somewhere else. Why put up with a minimum wage or
less than even.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well's I guess as he said, because if you're.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
A contract well that's lawful. By the way, if you're
a contractor, you can be paid less than a minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That does seem pretty rapid, doesn't it. I don't know
beyond that. Well, if he could, if you've been an employee,
how do they force you to become a contractor once
you've been an employee.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
It's why you can be very cautious when you actually
do that. Flick over and agree with the boss, but
you can still challenge it and say, well, in reality,
I'm an employee. Because all these there's a heap of tests.
It's complicated, but it can get there.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Another one says. A text says experience and capability to
do jobs should be respecting the work, et cetera. For
the older age group, older people have come through the
invention and development over our time and employment. I find
young people now want others to do to work for them,
and I think technology and sorry and think technology will
do and everything doesn't work out that way. Get the job,
(27:06):
do the work, don't leave the computer us.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Well, one of the reasons we're well and very low
productivity in New Zealand is the fact that we let
our technology is not up there because ninety seven percent
of all businesses in New Zealand, not all the enterprises
are less than twenty people in there, so we're small
businesses and we haven't got that AI will the robotics particularly,
(27:30):
and these young people expect robotics to do everything. Unfortunately
a lot of businesses just can't afford that, and that's
why we're lagging behind the competitors around the globe.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Another text here from Patricia high Tim and Max. Great
call from Tom. My opinion is new manager being backed
by senior management. Therefore new manager has the confidence to
deal with Tom full stop. Stand your ground, Tom, listen
to Max. So much for the no surprises at performance
review time. This carry on is rife and government departments
cheers Patricia.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Oh go Patricia. I liked her her texts and she's
dead right. We're banks to all that. Yeah, I think
you need to challenge it, Tom and ask for more facts.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Kearencies. What's the difference between them asking your age and
asking what's wrong with you? If you have a day
off sick? Both a private.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You can answer this, you did before. Actually, well, they're
two different things. Yeah, I mean your age and your
ability to perform or having even sick. If you're not
reliably attending work, that's another matter. But you don't.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think she's saying, are they allowed to ask you
what's wrong with you if you have day off sick?
Actually I don't think you have to tell them what's
wrong with you. You just have to say I'm unwell. And
if you want, I'm not going to tell you what
it is, I'll give you a medical stuff exactly. But
you should have a trusting relationship where you go on.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You know, yeah, and you did right and do have
a trusting relationship. But employers have only thing they are
entitled to know is will you be reliably able to
tend work from hereafter? And what was the reason you're off?
And if your doctor's given you a certificate, the employe's
got no he has to accept it or she has
to accept what is.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The pragmatic way of getting a certificate from a doctor,
Because you know, going to the doctor these days, that's
not cheap.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They've got a pad right beside him because they write
so many It's just what was wrong. Three weeks ago,
I had an illness. The boss wants me to have
a certificate for that. Okay, right, what day was that?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So you just give him a call. You shouldn't have
to necessary avenue.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
But they have to go. And the doctor makes a
bit of money out of that. But then he writes
this to certificate and rips it off the pad and
gives it to the person. That's forty bucks or sixty
bucks or whatever it is for a doctor's appointment. Now, yeah, no,
that's been going on for a long time, and there's
a lot of people, like employers associations are very unhappy
with the recklessness that the medical certificates are released by retrospectively.
(29:45):
That didn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, we want your cause as well. Any questions you've
got for Max Max White, he is an employment relations expert.
If you want to get in touch with them, he's
got one of those fun numbers. It's quite easy to remember.
But for the time being, I cannot think what it
is is If people want to get in touch with
the Max.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Two one twenty four to seven, ninety three ninety three,
what did.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
You go for?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
The ninety three ninety three is of course, it's like inflation.
On our ninety two.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
When I got to the number, I didn't even I
thought one shit number because there was no two numbers
in there that were the same. So I thought, ah,
this is rubbish. And the girl that was working for me,
she said, have another look at it. It was twenty
four to seven ninety three ninety three. Well, and there
was a pizza around at the time with ninety three
ninety three at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Do you ever get called for no pizza? You know,
hold them, hold the hold the mushrooms. Anyway, Hey, look,
we'd love your cause on eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Any questions you've got for Max. We've got a few
things we can dig into here between the two of us,
but if you'd like to jump the queue and get
them with your question, then give us a call. Eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. It's twenty six news Talk, said,
(30:48):
b Yes, welcome back, this is smart money. My guess
is Max Whitehead is an employment relations expert and the
numbers is eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Taking your cause.
We started talking about whether you know age is a
big deal these days, but we're also as the conversation.
Evolve's been talking about being performance managed out of a job,
or any of questions you might have around your employment situation,
boss or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It's interesting subjects tonight. I'm really touching some buttons of
me and you and I have been having a conversations
during the breaks. You know, it's been amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Tom, your your turn? Sorry not Tom, Colin? What am
I saying? Colin? Colin?
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Colin?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Hello? Colin? Max here?
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Hello? Max? How are you very good? I have a question.
If you've got twenty sick days, right, and was the
school holidays coming up? Can you use three of those
sick days to have off as you told that on holiday.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
No, No, you're going to use them for sick reasons.
You're going to have a good reason, medical reasons to
do it. And unfortunately the answer that is no. No, Okay,
I'm sorry, that's not the answer you wanted to have.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
If you were sick, that would be different. I don't
know whether that means you cannot go for a walk
in the park with them, but if you were sick,
that's different.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But you couldn't just take three sick
days and then go with your son to wherever you
want to go.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
And I'm just wondering if Tim is actually implying maybe
you should say you're sick.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I know I'm not saying that.
Speaker 7 (32:14):
No, well, that's what it come across as.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Oh no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Actually, that's an interesting question because I do know people
who go, oh, I've got so many sick days owing
to me. It's like, well, they're available to you, but
they're not owed to you in the sense that you
can just say I'm sick today unless you can get a.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, Colin, you should say them up because you never
know what's around the corner for you.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
Well, that's true because I worked for this company and
when COVID struck, the government paid us eighty percent. Yeah,
so we had enough, We had enough sick days that
they the company paid us one hundred percent because we
had so many sick days.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Ah. Yeah, well that's interesting, and of course they do
accumulate up to twenty days. So yeah, it will over
years and years, you get to actually get quite a
you raised up. So I'm sure Colin you've done that.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Mindear Colin, would be very difficult for you to take
us sicky now, because if your boss is listening and
recognizes your voice would be like, how Colin, you've seen
your sick days to the showte thanks.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Going, he's a good sport.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Kevin.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Hello, Hello Kevin Max.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Here just a question. I'll be for a company for
on my fourth year now every year where to a
I'll call it a employment review. For now, it's called
an employment review, which is due in October every year.
(33:51):
I've got the ash for it intro of the other stuff,
and we haven't got it on on on that particular time, Kevin.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is it on the employment agreement? Is it specified that
every year they're going to do a review?
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Okay? Oh, extended a bit in my contract that says
you and you're two for a employment review in October
of your anniversary obviously, but it doesn't guarantee a pay right.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
No, no it doesn't. But the other thing is, Colin, Kevin,
if they're not giving that to you, they are in
breach of your contract. So you actually you can take
a legal action against them if they I mean it's
a petty reason, but I mean because they'll say I'll
do it next month. But I mean, you might even
say that you've been talking to this guy on the radio,
Tim beverage, No, Max Whitehead, and he's advised me that
(34:52):
you are in breach of contract by failing to give
it to me. Can I have please do a review
and give consideration to a wage rise. Probably doesn't help
you get a wage rise. But if you actually tell
him the bosses.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Bridg actually interested in a pay rise, have you one's
pay yet? But what my point is they're quite happy
to throw your concrete at you a cure and brick
of it. But their attitude is, well, you know, we
don't care that we have done that. And what to
(35:26):
me is they say it's not a pay review, but
it is a pay review. So that's at the end
on my concrete. At stage it doesn't guarantee a pay rise.
Surely that means it is a pay review because it
doesn't guarantee you pay right.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Well, no, and what they're just saying they're going to
look at your pay I mean there's probably a whole
lot of factors come into it. And you know, employers
don't always always give people a handout. In fact, some
people should take it the reduction, I don't know. But anyway, look, Kevin,
it's a good question. I think there's a lot of
people affected by it because a lot of employers get
caught up and it's such a busy time and you know,
(36:04):
I don't know what is it coming up text time
or whatever it might be. There's always a reason why
they can't do it so well.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
In this case of a jew and October and we
haven't got it in April.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Well, I think make a fuss of it, and if
you want to take it further, lodge it with the
Employment Relations Authority you can for a breach of contract.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
And I say, I'm not really worry about it. I
just wanted to see you if I had ground to
stein on. They drove something at me, So so okay,
if they threw something bash at me, could I use
that again to them?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Certainly you could. I mean if they are in breach now,
and they are in breach later on and something comes
at you, you can do it. Yeah. Hey, thanks for
the call, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yep, got on you, Kevin, Thank you for that, right,
just looking for a couple of texts here. I don't
know why more businesses and organizations aren't open to older
people working part time or job share. I'm a fifty
five year old woman having trouble funding work when I've
never had any problems funding work in the past. The
union for my profession isn't very helpful.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I see EMA are actually promoting it. They're saying, folks,
if you're you ought to be using older people more often,
but actually do it part time and get them in
for part of the hours. But use their experience and
they're actually probably more stable. But and put them in
a slot that you can fill. But actually you will
find it quite helpful, and you can negotiate with them
(37:28):
at a lower rate of pay than they were all
used to when they were employed.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right, We'll be back in just a just a minute.
This is News Talks a B. It's ten to six
News Talks a B with Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead,
employment relations consultant expert guru.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Bring it on, bloke.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
There we go, John, Hello, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:47):
How you doing John?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Max here?
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yeah, I've got a question for you, guys. I've been
with this being employed with this company for the top
months now. I haven't had my performance and everything. It's
nothing wrong with my performance at Dentist and I have
put in a lot of hours this company, including working
(38:12):
outside of the company hours that there is the weekends
or inn and public holidays with contractors and everything. So
I've actually, you know, apply myself and that part is
to spit my market.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
So what are they done to you?
Speaker 7 (38:28):
John?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
We'll have to keep it quick, joinks you've got about
a minute and a half.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Oh okay, Now what I've been that I've just been
given the notified notice about last week saying that my
role has been a step disestablished.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So that's normal, John, I'm afraid you're you're heading for redundancy.
The answer I got to that is my advice is
to what I said to the previous quarter. Because your
jobs under threat, you've got rights to some information. You've
got to ask lots of questions. You know, why my job?
Why is my my colleagues not doing it? What is
(39:05):
it that's about my role that is under threat? Is
it because it's an effective and efficient And put a
whole lot of really difficult questions to them and ask
them and ask for it in writing, please for your advisor.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Okay, Sorry, we couldn't talk to you for longer on that, John,
just because time is against us. But yeah, absolutely ask questions.
You're not just someone who gets it all dished up
to them. You're entitled to ask questions and to stand
up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
The one term.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yep, there you go. Hey, great to see Max.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Yeah you too.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I really enjoyed today, well as you do everyday.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Don't you make it sound like you make it sound
like I enjoyed myself today. But as for a couple
of weeks, a few weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Now, I've always enjoyed in here. You know that you've
got to be scrape me out of the off the
floor to get me out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And if you want to catch up with Max, he's easy.
Just google and wax Max Whitehead and Max. There's an
unfortunate for them, isn't it? Max Whiteheads on eight hundred
and twenty four seven ninety three three. Well, looking forward
to next weekend. Just a little teaser. We're looking for
the one roof radio show.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
We'll have.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Elsa Wolfo was a new guest last time. She's a
bit of a renovations expert on how to add value
to your home and for the Health Hub. On Sunday,
we've got Alex Bartle, a sleep expert, joining us and
Hannah McQueen. It's been a while since we've seen Hannah,
so she's back and we'll be chatting to Hannah on
smart Money. Hey, thanks for your company. Thanks for your
company this evening Sunday at six US next and thanks
(40:28):
to my producers Tyra and Mary, and we'll look forward
to your company again next weekend. Have a great week,
Catch you soon on the out of your Name.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
Angels up in the clouds, hi Yah, let's know We down.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The Weapon Classes. I wanted to let that roll for
(00:42):
a little bit, but I guess we'd better get on
and do our job. Welcome, Welcome back to the Weekend
Collective on tim beverage and by the way, a fascinating
chat in the previous hour for the Health hab with
Dr Mark Williams Neuroscience about just the effect of devices
on our on our health and actually the scariest thing
was basically the fact that we're just becoming dumber because
the devices and IQ rates of declining. So if you
(01:03):
wanted a reason to get off your phone, there's a
good one. Anyway, if you want to check out anto
the previous hours and me to chat with Peter Dunn
about the Luxeen and Winston having a crack at luxon
for talking to world leaders and getting ahead of it.
Should have talked to Winston first. And then we had
a chat with David Carter, former Speaker of the House
and Minister of Local Government about just celebrities and voting
(01:26):
for them just because we recognize the name for our mayors.
You can go and check out our podcast look for
the Weekend Collective on the News talks he Be website.
We'll go to iHeartRadio. But right now it's time for
another hour, which'll be can checking out in the podcast
if you're not listening to it live. It is smart money.
My guest is he's an employment relation expert. He doesn't
really need much of an introduction to this audience. I
(01:47):
think if you've been listening to The Weekend Collective for
a while, you'll be familiar with the tone, the dulcet
tones of Max Whitehead go a Max, how you going?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Hey, you've had an exciting build up to the show,
because really, some really good stuff's been happening. By the sound,
I wish I was there. I mean, because that your
last segment that adolescens. I just watched that segment of
Man it touched me.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It really is that that. That's a Netflix thing.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
I've got children. You should see it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, they're going to.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Put it into schools.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's going to be Yeah, apparently it's quite heavy going too,
I think, isn't it? But yeah, I'll have to check
it out. I'm busy watching something light and fluffy mine.
You're also I'm enjoying the f one at the moment
you're following the F one and all the fortunes of
Liam Lawson and all that.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh well, I just followed him, of course. And then
then I think the TA B said that they put
him something special on for him and if you bet
for him, and then I realized that the odds can't
be good for him. No, I didn't expect him to win.
But you know, a bit sad he got pushed aside,
but that's life.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah. Well, now we want your calls on eight hundred
eighty ten eight. And look, if there's any issue that
you're concerned about with your either as an employer or
as an employee, give us a call. And I'm sure
maxud I love to give you the benefit of his
wisdom and experience on eight hundred eighty text nine two
(03:06):
ninety two. But we always like to kick things off
with a couple of angles of conversation for you to
digest and participate on. And the first one is is
there a stigma around age getting old? And should we
be valuing age a little more than sort of looking
(03:27):
at people and thinking, oh, they're getting towards sixty five
and start to write people off and case and point,
and the reason for this discussion is Winston Peters. Much
as you know, we might have heard some criticisms of
them before by Peter Dunn about his motives for having
a crack at Luxon and all that. And look, Winston Winston,
the wily old politician, the co Martyr of New Zealand Parliament.
(03:49):
He's he's been doing it for a long time. He's
eighty years old now. And yet who would question whether
Winston is not up to the job, Because clearly Winston
is up to the job. He's received huge plaudits for
the job that he does as Foreign Affairs Minister. I
(04:10):
would say that the average punter who follows politics with
more than a passing interest would look at Winston and think,
you know what, regardless of my opinion of him or
whether I vote for him as a foreign minister, at
the age of eighty, the guy is he's rocking and rolling.
So is that an example of why we should not
write off older people and that age is just a number.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well, you got to think about it. It's a great
discussion because we got Winston, who is wiley. I think
he really is. But by goodness, I've been around a
long time, so I remember the days when he skinned
his knees and he was an embarrassment and I remember
the time when he got throwing out of the National
Party for that particular reason. And he's made some silly
statements in the early days. But now he can read
(04:55):
politics better than anybody and he's proven that again and again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
There's also a lesson there and just persistence, isn't it,
you know, I mean he's plead Knox member. He got
I mean he got ended up out of parliament after
you know, when people decided that I had enough in
New Zealand first and he was out and then he's back.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Jim Boljas kicked him out and he's held a grudge
against the National Party for years, but he's back with
him now. But you know, the other thing is the
President of the United States is about the same age, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
He is, well, actually in the former president of the
United States is around the same age as well.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah yeah, and look at the performance difference. It's completely
you know, the previous president really struggled and his age
really showed him that last year. So he's witty, he's smart,
he's electric, but he's thinking he can actually beat the hecklers.
He really does performing well and his brain is super
sharp trumpy. Well, I don't know what goes on in
(05:52):
his brain. I don't think anyone else does. But what
we got is somebody courageous. But there's that reckless because
he's getting old as well. But he's really really doing
some changes to the world.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, let's get onto the Can you you can't discriminate
against people based on their gender? Generally, I don't think
you can, And generally I wouldn't think you can discriminate
against them on age. But can you discriminate against people
on age?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, the Human Rights ex specifies it. No, you cannot.
So if employers have problems of this, So a person's
becoming elderly, they're becoming slower, they be a bit more less,
can't respond quick quick enough and even physically.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's a performance issue, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, And that's how they've got to treat it. But
not with age.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Whereas if you turn up for a job and you
happen to be, you know, in your seventies or something,
and you demonstrate you can do the job, age shouldn't
be a barrier to you.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, it should not, And but yet it is. I
can say to you now because I'm getting into that
older age group and never I just adjust my nappy.
But just but what I was just about to say is,
you know, it definitely is a barrier out there. It's subconscient,
but right through New Zealand. You actually look at in
(07:07):
your world. You know, radio stars and things in Australia
they're much older. TV celebrities are the really good ones
are much older. There's not many older ones here compared
to what's happening in Australia. They're in New Zealand. We
do judge people on age, and we shouldn't we should
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Guess there are certain industries where age is not such
a barrier that you know, the older yet you deem
to have a bit more life experience and dealing with things.
Probably actually this this gig can talk back. If you're
you know, if you're around fifty, you're a youngster.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, well yes, well possibly, but I mean you've got
to have some intelligence for your sort of work as well,
and you've got to be quick witted, and you've got
to be able to handle, you know, situations that can
be a bit risky and do it lightning fast. What
if I mean what are diplomacy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What can are there ways that older people who still
want to continue working, Because the other reason we're talking
about this, they are an increasingly large number of people
who working beyond the age of sixty five. And I
think I saw some frightening status to what younger people
thought how long they were going to work for and
there was quite a large number. I need to find
that stat actually about how many people thought they would
(08:18):
be stopping at sixty five, and it was a minority,
I think, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, it was. And of course nowadays people are wanting
to come back. If anything, the older people are the
pension doesn't quite give you that luxurious, nice living standard
as you had before. Now there's a couple of things
that older people should do if they want to get
back in the workforce, and that is one. There's a
perception out there that you're going to want more money.
I actually talked to an HR person today just because
(08:43):
I knew this was coming up, and she said that
we actually have a feeling that people are going to
of the older generation will be expecting high money. That's
one that surprises me.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I would have thought, because.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You've been around a long time, and you do have
the experience. You've been in the industry for years and
years and years, and you've had increments every year to
take you up. And of course you will be expensive.
So older people, you've got to say that I'm at
reasonable cost. My expectations aren't beyond what's reasonable. The other
thing is technology, because that's a barrier old The people
(09:17):
that are making decisions expect you because you're older, you're
not savvy with tech. You need to get up there.
You need to keep right up to what's going on,
and particularly with AI right now, because that's going to
change the world. Now. If you're right up to date
and even ahead of some of the younger people, you're
going to be a head for that job. Interview as well,
I would say, because the employer will be looking at it.
(09:38):
So the way to actually sell it, if I was
you would say, hey, I'm very much aware of it.
I may be using AI myself, however I do it
cautiously because I don't know where it's going to go.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Actually, are people allowed to know how old you are
for a job. No, unless it's something where there's a
prescribed by law thing like I don't think there's an age,
which you can be a commercial pilot or something.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, what we advise, we've have for years and years
and years of employers, and I work for the EMA
Employees Association, do not ever ask their age because then
you're up for an allegation of discrimination.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So you actually cannot even ask someone. Look, you don't
have to tell me. Can you say, Look, you don't
have to tell me, but how old are you?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Can you say what years were you?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's not advisable.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Can you ask them what year did you go to
that school?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You could ask them that, but I mean again, they
could use that and say he knew that I was
touching on fifty nine and mine's going to get a
pension next year or whatever, and then discriminated against me.
I mean, you just don't want to get into legal
action against you because you're going to turn that that
person down. They will then claim what was the reason, Oh,
(10:50):
it's because of my age. I'll sue the buggers.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
God, we'd love your calls on this. Eight hundred and
eighty ten. Aady, are you someone who's older who's looking
at keeping working or getting a job, and how do
you handle the question of age or do you believe
that we are, that we stigmatize and look at older
people in a negative way, when in fact they might
have a lot to offer. Case in point, as I say,
(11:15):
just because he's out his eightieth birthday, Winston Peters. To
be honest, if you didn't have a Minister of Foreign
Affairs and you could just hire anyone and Winston was available,
he'd be like, let's have a chat with Whney, wouldn't
you You'd hire them, good high Whinny, wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Well, yeah, I'd go to him for advice. Hey, what's
going to happen in the future. He seems to better
predict it rather well because he's how often is here
the balance of power? The whole population don't get this privilege.
He's at it so many times. He's actually told us
who we're going to have in parliament, told us what anyway?
Enough of Winston.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Hey, let's take some calls. Where are we up to?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Let's go to Tom, Hey, Tom Max waited here, it's.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Tom here. I've got a performance issue, which you just
mentioned before at my work. I just want to ask
your opinion about my situation, if that's okay.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, sure. Have you been accused of poor performance.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Yes, and so I don't want to need to be
careful about not reguining my who I work for. But
so I work for a large government department, and have.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
They given you a performance improvement plan?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
They're about two yes?
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
So well, firstly, so the work I do is office based,
and we receive applications from members of the public which
we need to process and we need to evaluate the applicants,
how the applicants meets various government policies and determine various
(12:52):
risk factors. Can get very complicated, and so I've been
told that I'm about ten or twenty below the weekly output.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So Tom, the big key here for you is that
you are entitled to a lot of information which I
guarantee you haven't had. You might surprise me government departments
of HR departments that can spend all day preparing this stuff.
But anyway, what you can what you should be asking
for is what exactly have I done that I've let
you down that you think I'm not performing?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I want you to name the dates, the time, the
people involved, the conversations that actually give you that right
that evidence. Can you give me five examples please, and
then specify you want facts, not just you want you
want facts, not just opinions.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So sorry, what are the rest of the what's the
rest of the story. What's where you're at with at
the moment?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Okay, So I I've had a few meets my manager,
and I mean so our workers can be get quite
assessed as well, and so my my quity is very
good to excellent for last few months. There's no problem
my quarity. And I sit to my manager just last week,
I said, are there any other issues with my employment?
(14:09):
Which is an issue? There's no, not at all. Just
your output is below our expectations. So my question is
there's that enough for them to put me on a
performance plan? And so they he's first giving me six
weeks ago on what he calls informal performance plan. But boy,
is like five pages of documents which I need to sign,
(14:30):
and there's expectations per week for every six weeks. And
if I don't meet the expectations and that six weeks,
then I go on a formal performance plan. And I
was told that if I don't meet expectations after three
months on the formal performance plan, then I could be
down the road. I'll be down the road.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Tom can I just ask you before we get into
this further, do you know how were you set in
terms of your output with other other people?
Speaker 6 (14:59):
And asked that?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So where I worked, there is I mean, I mean nationwide,
there are thousands of employees, and where I work, there's
probably I'm not sure exactly about probably four hundred plus
employees where I work. I mean, we all do different
types of work, that's all kind of similar. And I'm
absolutely certain I'm not the only person who's not meeting
their target requirements. And I have asked that of them
(15:22):
and they say, no, we can't talk to other people
wause it's private information.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh Okay, there's a lot to dig into here, isn't there?
Max you get into it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Okay, well I go back back by the time I
go right back to where I started. What I advise
you to do is ask some questions, get some facts.
You have been accused of something, you should ask them
and put this in writing for me or for anybody
might want to represent you that you've asked them to
provide the facts to support their allegation of poor performance.
(15:52):
And look, you've just made a very good point there.
You know, where do you stand compared to your peers.
I mean that's a question you can ask, is anyone
else performing at this level? I mean those sort of
questions you've got to write to put forward. Sorry, Tom,
you spoke, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
So who's the reply to that? Was that more than
half of two teams who do the same work as
I do, more than half of the staff who do
the same week as I are meeting expectations. So I
don't know what that means. More than half is that
there's tety percent who aren't.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
So in writing put it in right? So I asked
the boss, can you please give me some responses in writing?
Because I'm getting advice on this and my advisor needs
to see what you've got to help how you respond
to these questions? Ah?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
So what I do is very much computer based, so
they've got time and you know, all these apicases we get,
it's all done in the computer, so that he has
got statistics to show that on a week, on a monthly, weekly,
a monthly basis, my output is so much and so
much and I'm not meeting the expectations of Has he
given this to you?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Tom?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Can? I can? I ask Tom?
Speaker 5 (16:59):
He is?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
He not exactly? But he has got the end he
would give it to me. I know that you do.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You get a sense. I've just a couple of questions,
a bit of guess where here. But firstly I've got
a text asking have is this a new manager.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Last six months? But I think I think he might
be getting directions from higher up. I've been I've been
at this organization for like just over twenty years now
and two years from the retirement or two years from
sixty five, and I've got a good history and good
record with them. My output very goes up and down,
(17:38):
but I've got a very good attendance. I turned to
work every day I've had them.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I'm just interrupted you because you know we should move on.
But I was just going to say to you that
really we've got. What you've got to do is we're
so careful, so careful that you don't sign off any
of those new rules he's putting in front of you.
He'll be even giving you some KPIs key performance issues,
(18:06):
standards to indicators that you're going to have to get
to and you might use the words back, are you
setting me up to fail? And because that's possibly what
he's trying to do, and say I'm reluctant to sign
this off until I'm satisfied that it's fear and reasonable person.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
My main question is, if I don't meet the I
don't meet the expectations after the formal performance plan and
review after several months, is that enough to dismiss someone?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, it is if you fail again right through. But
they if you challenge them, if you came to someone
like me and we challenge them, They've got to show
there was enough justification for them to dismiss you. And
that's what I'm asking you to do now, is to
ask them for that information now, to justify what their
actions are and why they're coming at you, because I
(19:00):
can sense it from you, Tom, You've bewildered at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Can I also ask Tom, do you have a sense
that they are doing in these performance reviews as a
way of reducing numbers within your workplace, and so they've
simply changed the goalposts so they can find a bunch
of people who don't quite meet what their targets are.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. I mean,
it's a speak of one as a big organization. So
we haven't had any you know, in the last year
with government cutbacks. We haven't had significant cutbacks.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I really don't know, so I'll help you there. Because
normally it's easier to make somebody redundant than it is
to actually get them for flight issues. So it's quicker.
It's a quicker way of doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Cheaper to get them for performance issue though, isn't it possibly?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah? Because I mean twenty years of service where Tom is,
he's going to be a costly person to get out
the door.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
So first long told any redundancy or know that?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, okay, hey, looks stay on the line. We'll move
on Tom. But stay listening because I just want to
ask Max, So what a Tom's just remind us. I'm
sure there are plenty of people who will have these issues.
If you suspect you're being managed out of your job.
What are his first actions?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Now?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
First thing he should do is go back and ask
for facts and ask for it in writing because he
needs to get advice, and before he signs off, and
then when he's asked again sign the document, he should
since say I don't like I don't I don't feel
comfortable signing this because you're setting me up to fail.
If he's got a good reason and six months in
(20:30):
the job, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Been twenty years there. See. That seems to me that
if someone can be successful and be in a position
for twenty years to suddenly be managed out of a job.
Because the thing that raises alarm for me is are
they shifting the goalposts from the gig that you've been
doing consistently and acceptably for twenty years? So how could
(20:53):
it have changed? He would, he'd be there must be
a way of raising that. It's like, hang on a minute,
twenty years. I've been doing fine. This has never been
raised with him before. I haven't changed my output. It's
as it has been for the last twenty years. You're
shifting the goal pace to.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Get rim what's happened? And he's already told us so.
A couple of levels up, there's been a new manager coming.
The new manager and that's what already A Texas is
mentioned to you. The new managers come in. I'm going
to make a name for myself here. I'll get rid
of the dead wood.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Tom's they But if you've been successful in a job
for twenty years, they can't suddenly go Oh, by the
way we've set these are your targets. Now, if you
don't meet them, we're going to performance manage you out.
That doesn't feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Now they want time to sign it. You've got my boat,
You've got my advice on both days. First, get the
facts and the second mine is do not sign it
until you're comfortable that you can achieve those things.
Speaker 7 (21:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Okay, So hopefully that's good advice for your tom and
you know, otherwise, get some advice. I'm sure people want
to get it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
And Tim, I'm going to tell you that there's going
to be callers now, because this happens every day in
my world. I'll get callers from everybody and the new
managers come in and he wants to show the boss
how wonderful he is cleaning out the dude would and
get the performance back up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Gosh, that sounds like a challenging scenario, doesn't it. Right, Hey, look,
we'll be back in just a moment. It's twenty eight
and a half past five.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Sitting.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Living's welcome back to the week and collective. This is
smart money. My guess is Max Whitehead, as we all know,
an employment relations expert talking well, we've been talking about
age as well, but the last conversation has thrown up
the question around how do you how can you avoid
being performanced managed out of a job. But any questions
you've got around your employment relationship, whether it be as
(22:47):
a boss or an employee, you give us a call,
Helen Hello.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
Oh hello, Kevin Max. Now this thing about our discrimination
on age Tony Sorry. Peter Bouchi is the chief on vidsman.
He has been forced out of his job. His frames
is as good as it ever was, simply because he
turned twenty egoes, he's turned seventy two. And when they
(23:13):
did that revise the legislation to bring that in, they
didn't change that, so that the Ombuton's office, you know,
he had to go by because he was seventy two
and no other reason.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, well that's a separate that's a separate act of parliament.
I guess that's the way it is.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Tim was just telling me that during the break, because
I mean, there is a human rights tech which affects
all of us ordinary people, but that person is deemed
to be somebody pretty special, and that's so they passed
an act of parliament. He was he's gone, isn't he?
Speaker 8 (23:46):
I think? So he's yeah, sharp as attack. You know,
I doesn't want to go and doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
We get judges like that and they get right up
there in terms of age, but you know that they
can't stay too long either because of the he gets
up to that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I actually think there is another reason for that as well, though, Helen,
is that the Ombudsman is someone who reviews actions of
the government and the public service. So he has actually
a very powerful role. And so if he was if
he was getting older and hanging on to the job
even though maybe he wasn't as good as it, it's
(24:23):
very difficult for the government to say it's time for
you to go when because it looks it could look
bad that they're doing it because they don't like the
decisions he's arriving at. So the Act the Act probably
is necessary from the point of view of like it
just removes that uncomfortable issue of having to say to
(24:44):
the ombudsmen, will you're done, sunshine?
Speaker 8 (24:47):
I can see that, I could see that, but.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just you know, a lot of those senior roles have
fixed term just specifically for that, but they don't mention
age quite often, but this one they do.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, So actually it's a strange one because you think
they can amount that just by simply saying you've got
a five year term and maybe have something in there
that if somehow we've got questions around your cognitive ability,
you have to do a pass an assessment. Oh it
all gets complicated, doesn't max.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Well, it does. There's so much it does. And we
see these legislations that are conflicting with each other, and
the judge, particularly in the High Court and some of
those other ones have to make a decision which which
legislation will take prison in here, and they do it
quite frequently.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Here's one I've gotten. I've been in a telco forty
nine years, very experienced up to date forced us into
owner operator. They've just offered me a contract. W's reduced
my ind come by forty percent from a year ago.
I barely survive now, so I'll be below minimum wage.
No wonder they have problems in the North Island to
the with internet outages.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Bloody hell is this chorus? I think now? It doesn't
say they went and gave them made them contractors, And
my goodness, that's that's really s And I would say
that if your skills, surely you can get another job
somewhere else. Why put up with a minimum wage or
less than even.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well's I guess as he said, because if you're.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
A contract well that's lawful. By the way, if you're
a contractor, you can be paid less than a minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That does seem pretty rapid, doesn't it. I don't know
beyond that. Well, if he could, if you've been an employee,
how do they force you to become a contractor once
you've been an employee.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
It's why you can be very cautious when you actually
do that. Flick over and agree with the boss, but
you can still challenge it and say, well, in reality,
I'm an employee. Because all these there's a heap of tests.
It's complicated, but it can get there.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Another one says. A text says experience and capability to
do jobs should be respecting the work, et cetera. For
the older age group, older people have come through the
invention and development over our time and employment. I find
young people now want others to do to work for them,
and I think technology and sorry and think technology will
do and everything doesn't work out that way. Get the job,
(27:06):
do the work, don't leave the computer us.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Well, one of the reasons we're well and very low
productivity in New Zealand is the fact that we let
our technology is not up there because ninety seven percent
of all businesses in New Zealand, not all the enterprises
are less than twenty people in there, so we're small
businesses and we haven't got that AI will the robotics particularly,
(27:30):
and these young people expect robotics to do everything. Unfortunately
a lot of businesses just can't afford that, and that's
why we're lagging behind the competitors around the globe.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Another text here from Patricia high Tim and Max. Great
call from Tom. My opinion is new manager being backed
by senior management. Therefore new manager has the confidence to
deal with Tom full stop. Stand your ground, Tom, listen
to Max. So much for the no surprises at performance
review time. This carry on is rife and government departments
cheers Patricia.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Oh go Patricia. I liked her her texts and she's
dead right. We're banks to all that. Yeah, I think
you need to challenge it, Tom and ask for more facts.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Kearencies. What's the difference between them asking your age and
asking what's wrong with you? If you have a day
off sick? Both a private.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You can answer this, you did before. Actually, well, they're
two different things. Yeah, I mean your age and your
ability to perform or having even sick. If you're not
reliably attending work, that's another matter. But you don't.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I think she's saying, are they allowed to ask you
what's wrong with you if you have day off sick?
Actually I don't think you have to tell them what's
wrong with you. You just have to say I'm unwell. And
if you want, I'm not going to tell you what
it is, I'll give you a medical stuff exactly. But
you should have a trusting relationship where you go on.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You know, yeah, and you did right and do have
a trusting relationship. But employers have only thing they are
entitled to know is will you be reliably able to
tend work from hereafter? And what was the reason you're off?
And if your doctor's given you a certificate, the employe's
got no he has to accept it or she has
to accept what is.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The pragmatic way of getting a certificate from a doctor,
Because you know, going to the doctor these days, that's
not cheap.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They've got a pad right beside him because they write
so many It's just what was wrong. Three weeks ago,
I had an illness. The boss wants me to have
a certificate for that. Okay, right, what day was that?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So you just give him a call. You shouldn't have
to necessary avenue.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
But they have to go. And the doctor makes a
bit of money out of that. But then he writes
this to certificate and rips it off the pad and
gives it to the person. That's forty bucks or sixty
bucks or whatever it is for a doctor's appointment. Now, yeah, no,
that's been going on for a long time, and there's
a lot of people, like employers associations are very unhappy
with the recklessness that the medical certificates are released by retrospectively.
(29:45):
That didn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, we want your cause as well. Any questions you've
got for Max Max White, he is an employment relations expert.
If you want to get in touch with them, he's
got one of those fun numbers. It's quite easy to remember.
But for the time being, I cannot think what it
is is If people want to get in touch with
the Max.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Two one twenty four to seven, ninety three ninety three,
what did.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
You go for?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
The ninety three ninety three is of course, it's like inflation.
On our ninety two.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
When I got to the number, I didn't even I
thought one shit number because there was no two numbers
in there that were the same. So I thought, ah,
this is rubbish. And the girl that was working for me,
she said, have another look at it. It was twenty
four to seven ninety three ninety three. Well, and there
was a pizza around at the time with ninety three
ninety three at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Do you ever get called for no pizza? You know,
hold them, hold the hold the mushrooms. Anyway, Hey, look,
we'd love your cause on eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Any questions you've got for Max. We've got a few
things we can dig into here between the two of us,
but if you'd like to jump the queue and get
them with your question, then give us a call. Eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. It's twenty six news Talk, said,
(30:48):
b Yes, welcome back, this is smart money. My guess
is Max Whitehead is an employment relations expert and the
numbers is eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Taking your cause.
We started talking about whether you know age is a
big deal these days, but we're also as the conversation.
Evolve's been talking about being performance managed out of a job,
or any of questions you might have around your employment situation,
boss or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It's interesting subjects tonight. I'm really touching some buttons of
me and you and I have been having a conversations
during the breaks. You know, it's been amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Tom, your your turn? Sorry not Tom, Colin? What am
I saying? Colin? Colin?
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Colin?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Hello? Colin? Max here?
Speaker 7 (31:23):
Hello? Max? How are you very good? I have a question.
If you've got twenty sick days, right, and was the
school holidays coming up? Can you use three of those
sick days to have off as you told that on holiday.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
No, No, you're going to use them for sick reasons.
You're going to have a good reason, medical reasons to
do it. And unfortunately the answer that is no. No, Okay,
I'm sorry, that's not the answer you wanted to have.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
If you were sick, that would be different. I don't
know whether that means you cannot go for a walk
in the park with them, but if you were sick,
that's different.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But you couldn't just take three sick
days and then go with your son to wherever you
want to go.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
And I'm just wondering if Tim is actually implying maybe
you should say you're sick.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I know I'm not saying that.
Speaker 7 (32:14):
No, well, that's what it come across as.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Oh no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Actually, that's an interesting question because I do know people
who go, oh, I've got so many sick days owing
to me. It's like, well, they're available to you, but
they're not owed to you in the sense that you
can just say I'm sick today unless you can get a.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, Colin, you should say them up because you never
know what's around the corner for you.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
Well, that's true because I worked for this company and
when COVID struck, the government paid us eighty percent. Yeah,
so we had enough, We had enough sick days that
they the company paid us one hundred percent because we
had so many sick days.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Ah. Yeah, well that's interesting, and of course they do
accumulate up to twenty days. So yeah, it will over
years and years, you get to actually get quite a
you raised up. So I'm sure Colin you've done that.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Mindear Colin, would be very difficult for you to take
us sicky now, because if your boss is listening and
recognizes your voice would be like, how Colin, you've seen
your sick days to the showte thanks.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Going, he's a good sport.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Kevin.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Hello, Hello Kevin Max.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Here just a question. I'll be for a company for
on my fourth year now every year where to a
I'll call it a employment review. For now, it's called
an employment review, which is due in October every year.
(33:51):
I've got the ash for it intro of the other stuff,
and we haven't got it on on on that particular time, Kevin.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Is it on the employment agreement? Is it specified that
every year they're going to do a review?
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Okay? Oh, extended a bit in my contract that says
you and you're two for a employment review in October
of your anniversary obviously, but it doesn't guarantee a pay right.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
No, no it doesn't. But the other thing is, Colin, Kevin,
if they're not giving that to you, they are in
breach of your contract. So you actually you can take
a legal action against them if they I mean it's
a petty reason, but I mean because they'll say I'll
do it next month. But I mean, you might even
say that you've been talking to this guy on the radio,
Tim beverage, No, Max Whitehead, and he's advised me that
(34:52):
you are in breach of contract by failing to give
it to me. Can I have please do a review
and give consideration to a wage rise. Probably doesn't help
you get a wage rise. But if you actually tell
him the bosses.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
Bridg actually interested in a pay rise, have you one's
pay yet? But what my point is they're quite happy
to throw your concrete at you a cure and brick
of it. But their attitude is, well, you know, we
don't care that we have done that. And what to
(35:26):
me is they say it's not a pay review, but
it is a pay review. So that's at the end
on my concrete. At stage it doesn't guarantee a pay rise.
Surely that means it is a pay review because it
doesn't guarantee you pay right.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Well, no, and what they're just saying they're going to
look at your pay I mean there's probably a whole
lot of factors come into it. And you know, employers
don't always always give people a handout. In fact, some
people should take it the reduction, I don't know. But anyway, look, Kevin,
it's a good question. I think there's a lot of
people affected by it because a lot of employers get
caught up and it's such a busy time and you know,
(36:04):
I don't know what is it coming up text time
or whatever it might be. There's always a reason why
they can't do it so well.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
In this case of a jew and October and we
haven't got it in April.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Well, I think make a fuss of it, and if
you want to take it further, lodge it with the
Employment Relations Authority you can for a breach of contract.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
And I say, I'm not really worry about it. I
just wanted to see you if I had ground to
stein on. They drove something at me, So so okay,
if they threw something bash at me, could I use
that again to them?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Certainly you could. I mean if they are in breach now,
and they are in breach later on and something comes
at you, you can do it. Yeah. Hey, thanks for
the call, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yep, got on you, Kevin, Thank you for that, right,
just looking for a couple of texts here. I don't
know why more businesses and organizations aren't open to older
people working part time or job share. I'm a fifty
five year old woman having trouble funding work when I've
never had any problems funding work in the past. The
union for my profession isn't very helpful.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I see EMA are actually promoting it. They're saying, folks,
if you're you ought to be using older people more often,
but actually do it part time and get them in
for part of the hours. But use their experience and
they're actually probably more stable. But and put them in
a slot that you can fill. But actually you will
find it quite helpful, and you can negotiate with them
(37:28):
at a lower rate of pay than they were all
used to when they were employed.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right, We'll be back in just a just a minute.
This is News Talks a B. It's ten to six
News Talks a B with Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead,
employment relations consultant expert guru.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Bring it on, bloke.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
There we go, John, Hello, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:47):
How you doing John?
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Max here?
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yeah, I've got a question for you, guys. I've been
with this being employed with this company for the top
months now. I haven't had my performance and everything. It's
nothing wrong with my performance at Dentist and I have
put in a lot of hours this company, including working
(38:12):
outside of the company hours that there is the weekends
or inn and public holidays with contractors and everything. So
I've actually, you know, apply myself and that part is
to spit my market.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
So what are they done to you?
Speaker 7 (38:28):
John?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
We'll have to keep it quick, joinks you've got about
a minute and a half.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Oh okay, Now what I've been that I've just been
given the notified notice about last week saying that my
role has been a step disestablished.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
So that's normal, John, I'm afraid you're you're heading for redundancy.
The answer I got to that is my advice is
to what I said to the previous quarter. Because your
jobs under threat, you've got rights to some information. You've
got to ask lots of questions. You know, why my job?
Why is my my colleagues not doing it? What is
(39:05):
it that's about my role that is under threat? Is
it because it's an effective and efficient And put a
whole lot of really difficult questions to them and ask
them and ask for it in writing, please for your advisor.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Okay, Sorry, we couldn't talk to you for longer on that, John,
just because time is against us. But yeah, absolutely ask questions.
You're not just someone who gets it all dished up
to them. You're entitled to ask questions and to stand
up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
The one term.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yep, there you go. Hey, great to see Max.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Yeah you too.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I really enjoyed today, well as you do everyday.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Don't you make it sound like you make it sound
like I enjoyed myself today. But as for a couple
of weeks, a few weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Now, I've always enjoyed in here. You know that you've
got to be scrape me out of the off the
floor to get me out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And if you want to catch up with Max, he's easy.
Just google and wax Max Whitehead and Max. There's an
unfortunate for them, isn't it? Max Whiteheads on eight hundred
and twenty four seven ninety three three. Well, looking forward
to next weekend. Just a little teaser. We're looking for
the one roof radio show.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
We'll have.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Elsa Wolfo was a new guest last time. She's a
bit of a renovations expert on how to add value
to your home and for the Health Hub. On Sunday,
we've got Alex Bartle, a sleep expert, joining us and
Hannah McQueen. It's been a while since we've seen Hannah,
so she's back and we'll be chatting to Hannah on
smart Money. Hey, thanks for your company. Thanks for your
company this evening Sunday at six US next and thanks
(40:28):
to my producers Tyra and Mary, and we'll look forward
to your company again next weekend. Have a great week,
Catch you soon on the out of your Name.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
Angels up in the clouds, hi Yah, let's know We down.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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