November 22, 2024 • 10 mins
Secondary school basketball is on the rise.
Participation has jumped 61% since 2000, and if it keeps growing at its current rate it will be NZ's most-played sport in less than a year.
BBNZ CEO Dillion Boucher discusses the challenges created by the massive increase in popularity, and the reasons behind it.
“They are wanting to go out and try to get good at basketball because I think it's seen as a really cool sport," he told Piney.
“The amount of work that our young people are putting into their game is phenomenal.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
School basketball numbers are through the roof right across the country.
On current numbers and on the current trajectory, basketball will
be the number one sport in our high schools within
the next year. Participation has jumped an incredible sixty one
percent since two thousand, sixty one percent. Basketball New Zealand
(00:37):
CEO is former Toall Black's legend Dylan Boucher. He joins
US now, Dylan, I'm sure these numbers won't be a
surprise to you because you track these sorts of things.
But why do you think basketball is so attractive to
our teenagers?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's more than just
a sport for our teenagers. I think that's a real,
real cultural elements of basketball. When I say cultural, everything
from you know, it's street, it's fashion, it's music, it's
it's fashion, it's style, it's you know, the NBA is
a real big influence globally on this game, and kids
(01:14):
fall in love with it and it's easy content to consume. So,
you know, watching a highlight of a basketball game or
highlights from a basketball game are really easy to consume
and really intriguing for people because guys are doing things
that your average person can't do. And I think that's
really appealing to.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Teenagers, absolutely, And you're talking about a lot of stuff
that people can watch and wear and that sort of thing.
But how has that translated across to people wanting to
pick up a ball themselves and give it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
A crack you think? I mean, I only can think
about when I was that age and you know, falling
in love with Michael Jordan and what he was able
to do and wanting to go out in the backyard
and practice it and try and do what he was doing.
And I think it's exactly the same with their young
people here. They are wanting to go out and try
to get good at basketball because I think it's seen
as a really cool sport as well. So it's a
(02:02):
sport that day going and I really think it's a
cool sport and I want to be a part of that. So,
you know, again, the amount of work that young people
are putting into their game is phenomenal. The skill level
is higher than we've ever seen it. And you know,
from a very young age now, you've.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Been pretty proactive to a basketball news yell and hopes
and schools, hoopes and parks now hoops and Maria, you
must be seeing a flow on effect, are you from
those initiatives?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean we are. Every time we drive
past a hoop or something that's been installed in a
school or a park, it's always been used and you know,
it doesn't matter what our other day, there's always someone
on it. So we're really seeing those hoops that we're
putting in schools and in parks and in what I
now being able to be used, to be available to
people to use. And the goal is to be able
(02:49):
to make sure there's a hope accessible, you know, within
kind of like a two kilometer radius of anyone at
any time. So that would that's the goal moving forward.
And we're really seeing more and more people that are,
you know, engaging with their kids, taking their kids down
to the park and shootings and hoops with their kids.
And it's a really easy sport. Get instant gratification by
shudent and see and it go through the hoop.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, fantastic giving those available. I guess in the organized
side of things, whether it's your traditional game or three
x three, how much pressure are the growing player numbers
putting on the sport for court space.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Again, I used I've made the joke that we used
to say it's a good problem when you're busting at
the scenes, but now it's just a problem. We're seeing
every region has got either kids from a young age
playing late at night, you know, playing games as late
as nine to nine thirty at night, just to be
able to get as many teams as they have wanting
to play basketball in because because of court shortages, we're
(03:46):
seeing teams having schools having weightless of kids who want
to play that can't play because there's nowhere for them
to play. So it is becoming a real problem, and
you know, we're doing everything we can to try to
come up with creative ways to ensure that if you
want to play basketball, you should be able to and
there should be some way where you can go and
bounce the ball and have a go, whether it be
(04:07):
in a team setting or in an informal environment.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
What are some of those solutions, Dylan, that you're trying
to come up with, both creative and more traditional.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, even things like bringing some of the younger leagues
and playing them outside, playing them on outdoor courts. We're
seeing more and more schools get those covered in courts
if you like, And so how can we use those
coven in courts, you know during those winter months where
you're still going to be dry underneath it, but it
might be raining around you, but you can still be
able to run leagues. Again, changing the formats, being innovative,
(04:38):
so using the three to three solutions, so being able
to run a couple of games at the same time
on one court, and those sorts of things. So and
again trying to put as many hoops as we can
around so you can adapt the game and have a
lot of skill format things rather than just necessarily games.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So numbers at secondary school, as I say, going gangbusters.
When a teenager leaves school and they want to play
I don't know, cricket, football, rugby and nepall join a
club and play in a league. What is the pathway
for basketball players when they leave school and want to
stay involved in the sport.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, for us, that's what we're finding. There's a bit
of a gap in the market and we're really trying
to come up with how do we keep people involved
in the game. And a lot of times it may
not even necessarily be staying playing in the game. They
want to stay involved in coaching. So we have our
traditional pathways through REP programs and things like that through
our associations, and we introduced this year the Tupou League.
(05:35):
So the Tupoo League was based on like a second
division type concept where it was aimed at those that
possibly want to continue playing competitive basketball. They can play
in their a local six week competition and then the
winning teams from those competitions, depending on which region you're in,
how many qualify from each region, but come into a
(05:55):
national tournament and that was played in Dunedin this year
and actually won by Otago. So and it has minutes
restrictions on it of if you play in the Sales NBA,
it has minutes restrictions on how many minutes so you
can You're only allowed fifteen minutes of court time to
play in the Tupu League. So it was aimed at
the guys who are possibly not getting as much court
time in the NBL, and then those that are wanting
(06:16):
to inspire to be in the NBL, but those that
actually just want to play at a higher level, So
trying to create opportunities for those players to continue, But
a lot of our associations will have their own leagues
running that are aimed Taggert at those kind of athletes
that want to continue playing. Some may be just social,
but also some competitive as well.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Do you think what you said before about about what
the real attraction of the sport is to young people?
You know, it's not as as strictly organized as perhaps
you know, if you're playing one of the other sports,
do you think that's one of the attractions, you know,
so you don't actually want a traditional club set up
where people go to the club rooms after the game.
That players just want to go the court play their
game and.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
That's it, I think, to be honest, I think in
today's day and age, everyone's so busy, so you know,
like I think, I mean, I really loved the concept
of a rugby club, and you know, I played a
bit of growing up, and we'd often played at the
rugby club and going and have a beer after the
game or something like that. It was quite a social environment.
I feel like people are busier now than when I
(07:15):
was growing up, So I think, you know, the club
structure is great, and then it would be awesome. You know,
there's some great club structures in the South Island in
particular and basketball. But I think people are so busy
now and they really just want to give up their
time play a game and get back in their car
and get home and do whatever they've got to do.
So I think that informal style is playing into it.
(07:36):
And there's all different levels and it's all playing into
our favor right now.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And just back to the standard of our top secondary
schools teams. You alluded to it before. I watched a
regional tournament in Palmerston North this year and that was
just the regionals, the one below the nationals and the
standard You're right, Dylan is superb. How do you assess
where it is and how much more it might grow?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, I think again. I think because of the Internet,
I think kids are able to get hold get hold
of international players from you know, it could be twelve
year old kid and you're watching on YouTube at the
skill worked out that doing and then they going, oh,
and that twelve years old and they go, oh, I
need to go practice that. So they go on their
back out and they work on their ball handling or
work on their shooting, and you know, we're seeing some
products of kids coming through now that have really picked
(08:22):
up the ball at a young age, fallen in love
with it and then just wanted to hone their skills
and at a really high level. I mean, I'm the
same as you. I walk into a gym now and
used to walk into high school games and one or
two kids used to be able to dunk it. Now
you got, you know, nine of the twelve guys doing
dunks and in the warm up side in your game.
This is just crazy. And our kids getting bigger. Yes,
I walk in, I mean I'm six foot five, you know,
(08:43):
just under two meters and I walk into basketball stadiums
at like an under fifteen tournament and these kids walking
past bigger than me, you know, at an under fifteen tournament.
And I'm just going these kids didn't exist when we
when I was coming through, so there's real opportunities, or
they existed. They were like one roally one stood out
because it was really tall. But now there's every team
just about has a big kid. So we're seeing more
(09:03):
and more size across the board. And the skill boy,
as I say, has really improved.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Exciting times for the sports. You've mentioned the tall blacks
as well. They're in action on Monday night in christ Church,
So a chance, I guess for people in that particular
part of the country to see the very very top
New Zealand players in action this coming Monday night.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah absolutely. I mean I think if you've never been
to a game and you're wondering what the hype's about,
go along to that Toll Blecks game in christ Church
and watch them take on Chinese Taipei and the Sea
Basia Cup qualifiers and you'll understand why it's so much fun.
I mean, one basketball. The other thing about basketball, the
one thing it is is it's one of the few
sports that's actually better live. So a lot of sports
(09:44):
when you watch it on TV, you see better camera
angles and stuff like that. Basketball is one of the
few sports when you go you can there's not a
bad seat in the building and you get your value
for money you get there and it's actually better than
watching it live because of the atmosphere in the stadium.
So it's going to be a good crowd on Monday
night looking forward to being down there and watching the
Toll Blocks bounce back after a narrow loss against the
(10:04):
Philippines a couple day days ago. So should be a
good game and really looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Good man, Dylan. Exciting time for the sport at all levels.
Thanks for joining us, mate, Always a pleaser, Pony, Thank you, Dylan.
Dylan Boutcher, CEO of Basketball New Zealand, former Turbacks legend himself,
of course.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
School basketball numbers are through the roof right across the country.
On current numbers and on the current trajectory, basketball will
be the number one sport in our high schools within
the next year. Participation has jumped an incredible sixty one
percent since two thousand, sixty one percent. Basketball New Zealand
(00:37):
CEO is former Toall Black's legend Dylan Boucher. He joins
US now, Dylan, I'm sure these numbers won't be a
surprise to you because you track these sorts of things.
But why do you think basketball is so attractive to
our teenagers?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's more than just
a sport for our teenagers. I think that's a real,
real cultural elements of basketball. When I say cultural, everything
from you know, it's street, it's fashion, it's music, it's
it's fashion, it's style, it's you know, the NBA is
a real big influence globally on this game, and kids
(01:14):
fall in love with it and it's easy content to consume. So,
you know, watching a highlight of a basketball game or
highlights from a basketball game are really easy to consume
and really intriguing for people because guys are doing things
that your average person can't do. And I think that's
really appealing to.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Teenagers, absolutely, And you're talking about a lot of stuff
that people can watch and wear and that sort of thing.
But how has that translated across to people wanting to
pick up a ball themselves and give it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
A crack you think? I mean, I only can think
about when I was that age and you know, falling
in love with Michael Jordan and what he was able
to do and wanting to go out in the backyard
and practice it and try and do what he was doing.
And I think it's exactly the same with their young
people here. They are wanting to go out and try
to get good at basketball because I think it's seen
as a really cool sport as well. So it's a
(02:02):
sport that day going and I really think it's a
cool sport and I want to be a part of that. So,
you know, again, the amount of work that young people
are putting into their game is phenomenal. The skill level
is higher than we've ever seen it. And you know,
from a very young age now, you've.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Been pretty proactive to a basketball news yell and hopes
and schools, hoopes and parks now hoops and Maria, you
must be seeing a flow on effect, are you from
those initiatives?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean we are. Every time we drive
past a hoop or something that's been installed in a
school or a park, it's always been used and you know,
it doesn't matter what our other day, there's always someone
on it. So we're really seeing those hoops that we're
putting in schools and in parks and in what I
now being able to be used, to be available to
people to use. And the goal is to be able
(02:49):
to make sure there's a hope accessible, you know, within
kind of like a two kilometer radius of anyone at
any time. So that would that's the goal moving forward.
And we're really seeing more and more people that are,
you know, engaging with their kids, taking their kids down
to the park and shootings and hoops with their kids.
And it's a really easy sport. Get instant gratification by
shudent and see and it go through the hoop.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, fantastic giving those available. I guess in the organized
side of things, whether it's your traditional game or three
x three, how much pressure are the growing player numbers
putting on the sport for court space.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Again, I used I've made the joke that we used
to say it's a good problem when you're busting at
the scenes, but now it's just a problem. We're seeing
every region has got either kids from a young age
playing late at night, you know, playing games as late
as nine to nine thirty at night, just to be
able to get as many teams as they have wanting
to play basketball in because because of court shortages, we're
(03:46):
seeing teams having schools having weightless of kids who want
to play that can't play because there's nowhere for them
to play. So it is becoming a real problem, and
you know, we're doing everything we can to try to
come up with creative ways to ensure that if you
want to play basketball, you should be able to and
there should be some way where you can go and
bounce the ball and have a go, whether it be
(04:07):
in a team setting or in an informal environment.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
What are some of those solutions, Dylan, that you're trying
to come up with, both creative and more traditional.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, even things like bringing some of the younger leagues
and playing them outside, playing them on outdoor courts. We're
seeing more and more schools get those covered in courts
if you like, And so how can we use those
coven in courts, you know during those winter months where
you're still going to be dry underneath it, but it
might be raining around you, but you can still be
able to run leagues. Again, changing the formats, being innovative,
(04:38):
so using the three to three solutions, so being able
to run a couple of games at the same time
on one court, and those sorts of things. So and
again trying to put as many hoops as we can
around so you can adapt the game and have a
lot of skill format things rather than just necessarily games.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So numbers at secondary school, as I say, going gangbusters.
When a teenager leaves school and they want to play
I don't know, cricket, football, rugby and nepall join a
club and play in a league. What is the pathway
for basketball players when they leave school and want to
stay involved in the sport.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, for us, that's what we're finding. There's a bit
of a gap in the market and we're really trying
to come up with how do we keep people involved
in the game. And a lot of times it may
not even necessarily be staying playing in the game. They
want to stay involved in coaching. So we have our
traditional pathways through REP programs and things like that through
our associations, and we introduced this year the Tupou League.
(05:35):
So the Tupoo League was based on like a second
division type concept where it was aimed at those that
possibly want to continue playing competitive basketball. They can play
in their a local six week competition and then the
winning teams from those competitions, depending on which region you're in,
how many qualify from each region, but come into a
(05:55):
national tournament and that was played in Dunedin this year
and actually won by Otago. So and it has minutes
restrictions on it of if you play in the Sales NBA,
it has minutes restrictions on how many minutes so you
can You're only allowed fifteen minutes of court time to
play in the Tupu League. So it was aimed at
the guys who are possibly not getting as much court
time in the NBL, and then those that are wanting
(06:16):
to inspire to be in the NBL, but those that
actually just want to play at a higher level, So
trying to create opportunities for those players to continue, But
a lot of our associations will have their own leagues
running that are aimed Taggert at those kind of athletes
that want to continue playing. Some may be just social,
but also some competitive as well.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Do you think what you said before about about what
the real attraction of the sport is to young people?
You know, it's not as as strictly organized as perhaps
you know, if you're playing one of the other sports,
do you think that's one of the attractions, you know,
so you don't actually want a traditional club set up
where people go to the club rooms after the game.
That players just want to go the court play their
game and.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
That's it, I think, to be honest, I think in
today's day and age, everyone's so busy, so you know,
like I think, I mean, I really loved the concept
of a rugby club, and you know, I played a
bit of growing up, and we'd often played at the
rugby club and going and have a beer after the
game or something like that. It was quite a social environment.
I feel like people are busier now than when I
(07:15):
was growing up, So I think, you know, the club
structure is great, and then it would be awesome. You know,
there's some great club structures in the South Island in
particular and basketball. But I think people are so busy
now and they really just want to give up their
time play a game and get back in their car
and get home and do whatever they've got to do.
So I think that informal style is playing into it.
(07:36):
And there's all different levels and it's all playing into
our favor right now.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And just back to the standard of our top secondary
schools teams. You alluded to it before. I watched a
regional tournament in Palmerston North this year and that was
just the regionals, the one below the nationals and the
standard You're right, Dylan is superb. How do you assess
where it is and how much more it might grow?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, I think again. I think because of the Internet,
I think kids are able to get hold get hold
of international players from you know, it could be twelve
year old kid and you're watching on YouTube at the
skill worked out that doing and then they going, oh,
and that twelve years old and they go, oh, I
need to go practice that. So they go on their
back out and they work on their ball handling or
work on their shooting, and you know, we're seeing some
products of kids coming through now that have really picked
(08:22):
up the ball at a young age, fallen in love
with it and then just wanted to hone their skills
and at a really high level. I mean, I'm the
same as you. I walk into a gym now and
used to walk into high school games and one or
two kids used to be able to dunk it. Now
you got, you know, nine of the twelve guys doing
dunks and in the warm up side in your game.
This is just crazy. And our kids getting bigger. Yes,
I walk in, I mean I'm six foot five, you know,
(08:43):
just under two meters and I walk into basketball stadiums
at like an under fifteen tournament and these kids walking
past bigger than me, you know, at an under fifteen tournament.
And I'm just going these kids didn't exist when we
when I was coming through, so there's real opportunities, or
they existed. They were like one roally one stood out
because it was really tall. But now there's every team
just about has a big kid. So we're seeing more
(09:03):
and more size across the board. And the skill boy,
as I say, has really improved.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Exciting times for the sports. You've mentioned the tall blacks
as well. They're in action on Monday night in christ Church,
So a chance, I guess for people in that particular
part of the country to see the very very top
New Zealand players in action this coming Monday night.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah absolutely. I mean I think if you've never been
to a game and you're wondering what the hype's about,
go along to that Toll Blecks game in christ Church
and watch them take on Chinese Taipei and the Sea
Basia Cup qualifiers and you'll understand why it's so much fun.
I mean, one basketball. The other thing about basketball, the
one thing it is is it's one of the few
sports that's actually better live. So a lot of sports
(09:44):
when you watch it on TV, you see better camera
angles and stuff like that. Basketball is one of the
few sports when you go you can there's not a
bad seat in the building and you get your value
for money you get there and it's actually better than
watching it live because of the atmosphere in the stadium.
So it's going to be a good crowd on Monday
night looking forward to being down there and watching the
Toll Blocks bounce back after a narrow loss against the
(10:04):
Philippines a couple day days ago. So should be a
good game and really looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Good man, Dylan. Exciting time for the sport at all levels.
Thanks for joining us, mate, Always a pleaser, Pony, Thank you, Dylan.
Dylan Boutcher, CEO of Basketball New Zealand, former Turbacks legend himself,
of course.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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