October 5, 2024 • 8 mins
The All Blacks end of year tour squad is set to be announced with question marks surrounding several players including Sam Cane and TJ Perenara. Piney catches up with Sir John Kirwan to discuss who he thinks should be on the plane to the Northern hemisphere.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Fine's Mackenzie text it over the touch line, the Capital
Pairs ends and the All Blacks When Sam Kaine's one
hundredths is final on home soil, TJ Penina's final on
home soil thirty three point thirteen over the Wallabies at
sky Stadium.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The final test on home soil for samkin and for
TJ Peninata. But will that be their final test? Full Stop?
Your Black squad for the end of season two revealed
at two o'clock tomorrow for test matches against Japan, England, Ireland,
France and Italy. It's a tough tour. Scott Robertson will
name a thirty six man touring party, while a twenty
(00:52):
nine man All Blacks fifteen squad will also be named
for matches against Munster and Georgia. That side to be
coached by Clayton McMillan. There's also been word and Scott
Robertson confirmed this that there may well be movement of
player between the two squads. So what are we sixty
five players there are going to be announced in one
of those two squads tomorrow afternoon. Let's bring in sir
(01:14):
John Kerwin, ninety six match All Black former international coach,
now a major part of sky sports coverage of the
All Blacks through commentary, analysis and his role on the breakdown. JK,
thanks for joining. It's going to start with the halfbacks.
Do you think TJ Petinata will go on this Northern Tour?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
No, I don't. I think that With Rougard coming back,
I believe that it's time possibly to take some risks.
TJ's been amazing signed with Japan. I put him in
the same category as Sam Kane at some stage. I
think we've got to give some of these younger guys
a bit more of an opportunity, you know. So for me,
(01:58):
both Sam Kin and TJ Peranard just might miss out
and it might be time to move on.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So is that that's your view? What do you think
Razor will do? Because if he doesn't take TJ, he's
got Cameray Guard five Test matches, Cortes eight Test matches. No,
I hope in one game off the bench. Does he
leave himself a little bit light at half back?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah? Totally. I don't think he leaves himself light. He
leaves himself light on experience, so you know, I think
it's a massive question if he decides to take them.
I get that as well, because what he's trying to
do is, you know that by the end of the seedon,
this is an incredibly difficult northern tour. You know, you
start with Japan, which they're not going to take some
of the more experienced guys, They're going to send them
(02:38):
straight to the UK. Then you've got England, Ireland, France
and Italy. So you know, I think I would understand
if he took them. But then so you know what
did you mention roy Guard five? Yeah? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
No one?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So when they get back from Europe, what do you
want their numbers to be? You know, do you want
them to have seven? Ten? You know, they sort of
say that to win World Cups you need to have
sort of twenty eight to thirty test match is under
your belt to understand what it's all about. So, you know,
I think it's a massive call. I think it's the
most interesting part of this selection and possibly lock you know,
(03:18):
what's he going to do with Locke? Uh? You know,
I think to POI was probably my player of the series.
From an improvement point of view, you know, sort of
the line outs, you know, was great around the field,
so I think that's a real positive. But then do
you take Josh Lord, do you take Sam Dowry? You know,
what do you do at lock? Where I think there's
a little light And then the loose forwards is really interesting.
(03:40):
I don't know what happened to Dalton. I watched Counties
last night and he got injured late sort of limped off,
you know. So what are we going to do it
loose forward? Are we going to take some of the
young guys like you know, like your sir Lackey, or
are we gonna We're going to stick with Sam Kaine?
So I think it's time, mate, I think it's time.
(04:00):
You know, we're two years away from a World Cup,
so that's what i'd be doing, all right.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
SAME's an interesting one to me. With halfback. You've got
Roy garderut to my host theme. So you've got guys
queuing up who is the number seven beyond the year.
Let's say Kane goes in plays but he's not there
next year? Who is the All Blacks open side flanker
in twenty twenty five? And moving through the next World
Cup cycle.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think it's Dalton. I think it's Dulton because of
our loose forward mix, you know. I think Satiti has
come on as we all know, you know, Artie is
playing well at number eight, and I think what the seven,
how we used to have our traditional seven has now changed.
Our seven is now playing like a six, like when
(04:43):
you think about Sam Caine, incredibly defensively, incredible work late
around the ruck, but probably not a bull carrier anymore,
you know, So they're leaving the bull carrying to Satiti
and to Ardi, which makes our seven then, like our
six used to be, so a very tight you know,
(05:03):
very tight individual who's doing that hard work gives us
the balance to free up other guys. So I think
Dalton is best suited if that's the role we're going
to play. And then I think from a pressure point
of view, you know, we've got some of these these
young guys coming through Lok. I your there, guys like
that that are probably more multi talented. You know, they
can play in many positions. But I think the interesting
(05:26):
thing about the last test mench No. One really played
out of position. You know, we had Will, We had
Will at full back, we had Botin at ten, we
had you know, Antonina Brand at twelve, Rico at thirteen.
Everyone was playing in their specialist position, which I think
is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
What's happened to Mark Talaya this year?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I just think he's tired. I just think he's I
was thinking about that the other day. I wonder whether
you know, they need to have a look at it
is fitness program. I just think he looked like he's
a little bit tired and lost a little bit of
that zing. And sometimes that can be training, sometimes that
can be just tiredness. So you know, I think the
(06:05):
outside back is another real good one. You know, you
said Mark come off a little bit of form and
then Caleb come into form. So I think that's another
real interesting position out wide.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So Damien McKenzie goes, Boden Barrett goes. I want to
get to who starts at ten in a moment, but
who goes out of Stephen Petefetta and Harry Plumber.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think Stephen Pedofetta will probably go. I mean, Plumber
plays twelve whereas Parafets are fifteen ten. But I think Stephen,
you know, is probably their preferred option in that ten
fifteen cover and so I think he'll go.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Who do you think we'll start at first five against
England in four weeks time.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I think it depends on what style of rugby you
want to play. I think that Damien's done an amazing job.
I think Damien's been really, really good. Does he need
to learn to control the last twenty Probably yes, you know,
and he'll learn that. But I also loved him coming
off the bench. You know. I've always said that he
probably won't like this, but I think he's you know,
(07:07):
we've missed him coming off the bench, and he did
the same last week. So I think it'll be about
a style of play that they want, and I think
they'll be able to use that as an option, you know,
against England. What sort of ten do you want versus Ireland?
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
And just to finish Jake, let's assume the All Blacks
or should beat Japan and Italy. What's an acceptable win
loss ratio? And the other three England, Island, France and
consecutive weekends.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Oh look, I think I think for me, it's it's
coming down to the wire. Something that I don't think
Super Rugby is setting ourselves up for anymore. I think
we've got to go down to the wire and beat
these sides, you know, so for me getting down winning
a game by two or three points would be will
be ideal. I think if we can beat Ireland that's
(07:58):
going to be pretty heated, and one of England or France,
and I think France is going to be incredibly difficult
at home. So if we can come away one and
when the rest, I think that'll be outstanding. But if
we lose two, then down to the wire and it's
maybe a kick, so we know that we're there and
competing in this young sider is learning, you know, that
(08:19):
pressure game in the last fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
All right, JK, thanks for your thoughts this afternoon. Appreciate
it very much. Indeed, Sir John Kerwin there, former all
black member of the panel on the breakdown on Sky.
No doubt they'll have more to say on that tonight.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Paine, listen live
to News Talk Z'B weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Fine's Mackenzie text it over the touch line, the Capital
Pairs ends and the All Blacks When Sam Kaine's one
hundredths is final on home soil, TJ Penina's final on
home soil thirty three point thirteen over the Wallabies at
sky Stadium.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The final test on home soil for samkin and for
TJ Peninata. But will that be their final test? Full Stop?
Your Black squad for the end of season two revealed
at two o'clock tomorrow for test matches against Japan, England, Ireland,
France and Italy. It's a tough tour. Scott Robertson will
name a thirty six man touring party, while a twenty
(00:52):
nine man All Blacks fifteen squad will also be named
for matches against Munster and Georgia. That side to be
coached by Clayton McMillan. There's also been word and Scott
Robertson confirmed this that there may well be movement of
player between the two squads. So what are we sixty
five players there are going to be announced in one
of those two squads tomorrow afternoon. Let's bring in sir
(01:14):
John Kerwin, ninety six match All Black former international coach,
now a major part of sky sports coverage of the
All Blacks through commentary, analysis and his role on the breakdown. JK,
thanks for joining. It's going to start with the halfbacks.
Do you think TJ Petinata will go on this Northern Tour?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
No, I don't. I think that With Rougard coming back,
I believe that it's time possibly to take some risks.
TJ's been amazing signed with Japan. I put him in
the same category as Sam Kane at some stage. I
think we've got to give some of these younger guys
a bit more of an opportunity, you know. So for me,
(01:58):
both Sam Kin and TJ Peranard just might miss out
and it might be time to move on.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So is that that's your view? What do you think
Razor will do? Because if he doesn't take TJ, he's
got Cameray Guard five Test matches, Cortes eight Test matches. No,
I hope in one game off the bench. Does he
leave himself a little bit light at half back?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah? Totally. I don't think he leaves himself light. He
leaves himself light on experience, so you know, I think
it's a massive question if he decides to take them.
I get that as well, because what he's trying to
do is, you know that by the end of the seedon,
this is an incredibly difficult northern tour. You know, you
start with Japan, which they're not going to take some
of the more experienced guys, They're going to send them
(02:38):
straight to the UK. Then you've got England, Ireland, France
and Italy. So you know, I think I would understand
if he took them. But then so you know what
did you mention roy Guard five? Yeah? Right?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
No one?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So when they get back from Europe, what do you
want their numbers to be? You know, do you want
them to have seven? Ten? You know, they sort of
say that to win World Cups you need to have
sort of twenty eight to thirty test match is under
your belt to understand what it's all about. So, you know,
I think it's a massive call. I think it's the
most interesting part of this selection and possibly lock you know,
(03:18):
what's he going to do with Locke? Uh? You know,
I think to POI was probably my player of the series.
From an improvement point of view, you know, sort of
the line outs, you know, was great around the field,
so I think that's a real positive. But then do
you take Josh Lord, do you take Sam Dowry? You know,
what do you do at lock? Where I think there's
a little light And then the loose forwards is really interesting.
(03:40):
I don't know what happened to Dalton. I watched Counties
last night and he got injured late sort of limped off,
you know. So what are we going to do it
loose forward? Are we going to take some of the
young guys like you know, like your sir Lackey, or
are we gonna We're going to stick with Sam Kaine?
So I think it's time, mate, I think it's time.
(04:00):
You know, we're two years away from a World Cup,
so that's what i'd be doing, all right.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
SAME's an interesting one to me. With halfback. You've got
Roy garderut to my host theme. So you've got guys
queuing up who is the number seven beyond the year.
Let's say Kane goes in plays but he's not there
next year? Who is the All Blacks open side flanker
in twenty twenty five? And moving through the next World
Cup cycle.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think it's Dalton. I think it's Dulton because of
our loose forward mix, you know. I think Satiti has
come on as we all know, you know, Artie is
playing well at number eight, and I think what the seven,
how we used to have our traditional seven has now changed.
Our seven is now playing like a six, like when
(04:43):
you think about Sam Caine, incredibly defensively, incredible work late
around the ruck, but probably not a bull carrier anymore,
you know, So they're leaving the bull carrying to Satiti
and to Ardi, which makes our seven then, like our
six used to be, so a very tight you know,
(05:03):
very tight individual who's doing that hard work gives us
the balance to free up other guys. So I think
Dalton is best suited if that's the role we're going
to play. And then I think from a pressure point
of view, you know, we've got some of these these
young guys coming through Lok. I your there, guys like
that that are probably more multi talented. You know, they
can play in many positions. But I think the interesting
(05:26):
thing about the last test mench No. One really played
out of position. You know, we had Will, We had
Will at full back, we had Botin at ten, we
had you know, Antonina Brand at twelve, Rico at thirteen.
Everyone was playing in their specialist position, which I think
is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
What's happened to Mark Talaya this year?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I just think he's tired. I just think he's I
was thinking about that the other day. I wonder whether
you know, they need to have a look at it
is fitness program. I just think he looked like he's
a little bit tired and lost a little bit of
that zing. And sometimes that can be training, sometimes that
can be just tiredness. So you know, I think the
(06:05):
outside back is another real good one. You know, you
said Mark come off a little bit of form and
then Caleb come into form. So I think that's another
real interesting position out wide.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So Damien McKenzie goes, Boden Barrett goes. I want to
get to who starts at ten in a moment, but
who goes out of Stephen Petefetta and Harry Plumber.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
I think Stephen Pedofetta will probably go. I mean, Plumber
plays twelve whereas Parafets are fifteen ten. But I think Stephen,
you know, is probably their preferred option in that ten
fifteen cover and so I think he'll go.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Who do you think we'll start at first five against
England in four weeks time.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
I think it depends on what style of rugby you
want to play. I think that Damien's done an amazing job.
I think Damien's been really, really good. Does he need
to learn to control the last twenty Probably yes, you know,
and he'll learn that. But I also loved him coming
off the bench. You know. I've always said that he
probably won't like this, but I think he's you know,
(07:07):
we've missed him coming off the bench, and he did
the same last week. So I think it'll be about
a style of play that they want, and I think
they'll be able to use that as an option, you know,
against England. What sort of ten do you want versus Ireland?
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
And just to finish Jake, let's assume the All Blacks
or should beat Japan and Italy. What's an acceptable win
loss ratio? And the other three England, Island, France and
consecutive weekends.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Oh look, I think I think for me, it's it's
coming down to the wire. Something that I don't think
Super Rugby is setting ourselves up for anymore. I think
we've got to go down to the wire and beat
these sides, you know, so for me getting down winning
a game by two or three points would be will
be ideal. I think if we can beat Ireland that's
(07:58):
going to be pretty heated, and one of England or France,
and I think France is going to be incredibly difficult
at home. So if we can come away one and
when the rest, I think that'll be outstanding. But if
we lose two, then down to the wire and it's
maybe a kick, so we know that we're there and
competing in this young sider is learning, you know, that
(08:19):
pressure game in the last fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
All right, JK, thanks for your thoughts this afternoon. Appreciate
it very much. Indeed, Sir John Kerwin there, former all
black member of the panel on the breakdown on Sky.
No doubt they'll have more to say on that tonight.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Paine, listen live
to News Talk Z'B weekends from midday or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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