November 22, 2024 • 18 mins
The rugby year has nearly reached its end.
The All Blacks are capping off the year with the final match in their Northern Tour – a clash against Italy.
NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson joined Piney to review the All Blacks’ season, and take a look at the state of the game in the country as a whole.
“I know it’s been a challenging few years at times, but when you think of the journey we've worked through, and the fact that now we’re seeing a sort of culmination of a lot of hard work that’s going on at all levels of the game.”
“We’re really heartened with where we’re tracking with the game.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talks EDB. Jordan has to take the tackle.
He's hold up with the tackle's quit the it need
to get the nis to ground well Fries swallow them up,
set up the it. Ya goes out for France.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Beyond go down to fast Senus fort time in France.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Do it again over the All Blacks by one point
thirty twenty nine. Man, it was a week ago. For
the last time in twenty twenty four, It's time to
catch up with New Zealand Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, who
joins us out of Italy ahead of tomorrow morning's season
ending test. Mark, thanks for joining us. As always, let's
(00:53):
start with the All Blacks. I went over Italy tomorrow morning,
which I think we all expect will happen, would give
the All Blacks a ten win four loss record for
twenty twenty four. How would you rate the All Blacks
first year unders got robertson.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh, thanks Piney. Great to be on and hide all
the listeners out there. Look, we are overall, you know,
really positive with the general direction of the team.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I would say up.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Front, you know, we we know Italy will be a
tough test match. They've obviously just sort of warming into
their work and the November series we saw them be
very competitive in the sixth Nations, so we know that
it'll be a tough game. But yeah, you know, flipping
back to reflecting on the whole year, if we if
we think about the fact we've had a you know,
significant amount of new players into the group, a totally
(01:40):
new coaching and management team, an incredibly tough schedule. I
think it's all been acknowledged by many. You know, this
is one of the toughest schedules we've seen and longest
for some time that generally we're really really positive about,
you know, where we're heading. It's always frustrating and disappointing
Piney to drop a test, you know, for any of
(02:01):
our teams in black, So we recognize that, you know
that that's disappointing.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
The team of expressed that too.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But I think when you think of the unearthing of
the new talent, the you know, the cohesiveness building and
the group, the familiarity they're developing in the shape of
the game they're developing, I think most people would point
to that being really positive.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Overall, apart from wins and losses, what are the other
metrics or measures that you use when you sit down
to review the All Black season.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, really it's about the It's about the trajectory of
the performance environment, I think.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Piney.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So we certainly get a lot of feedback, certainly the players,
the wider management, the coaching team will all report back
through a process we traditionally run. We collate all of
that information and then have a really productive session, largely
with the coaching group and manage a portion of the
(02:59):
management group earlier next year, and that will be reflected
through the board at that time. And that covers, you know,
a really wide range of things about you know, on
field and off field issues, technical technical work.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
It might look at the week, it might look at
logistics and travel.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You know, it was really comprehensive in terms of our
entire environment as it relates to you know, what you've
referenced in the with the losses there, you know, I'd
be looking at key trends we're seeing in the game
and in our team in terms of you know, things
like how we're responding to pressure or certain situations. So
it'll uncover and and go through a range of different
(03:39):
things with with that survey data, you know, really top
of mind and available to everyone to look at, so
you know, they're always and that happens in all our environments,
be at SEVENS teams, all the Black Ferns.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's it's a very similar process.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We're just on the Black Ferns. They've got a World
Cup to defend next year. Of course, how do you
think their place to do that?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I think when you look at w x V
and the game just before that in twicker we saw
a really mixed bag, didn't we. You know, we saw
I thought some really good improvements. I was at the
game and Twickenham, and for long periods of that game
we played very well, especially the opening quarter you know,
twenty to thirty minutes, and then the closing.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Sort of quarter as well.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Clearly, you know, we were disappointed with the upcome against
Ireland and that sort of just showed, you know, it's
probably still a little bit of inconsistency in the group,
and I know Ellen and some of the senior players
pointed to the frustration around that as well. But then
again we saw a really strong finness against France, who
are certainly you know, traditionally a top two or three
team themselves. So look, with sort of eight or nine
(04:45):
months ago now or a little bit more full season
of opicking in front of us, a really good review
to go through, still a lot of time left, you know,
to to work with the team. We've still remained positive
and we've got a bit of work to do in
terms of how some of the fifteens and sevens overlapped
(05:06):
my work and what we look to draw on that
environment as well. And that's sitting with Al and his
team at the moment, but we'll be supporting any consideration
in that space that we have over the next little while.
So you know, we know this work to do, but
we think we can certainly create a lot of improvement
and a short amount of time within this group, as
we've seen happen over the last few years.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Just before we move on from our elite teams. When
we spoke last time, you were seeking some clarity from
the French rugby Union about the strength of the side
that they might send down here next year. There's talk
of a second string and even third string team coming
down for those test matches next year. Have you got
any clarity on that?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Look I've seen a bit of the French recently. They
were in Dublin obviously around the world rugby elections, and
then I had a half a day with them on
Friday before the Test match. Look, you know, things haven't
changed significantly from where they've been at.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
It will really.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Depend on how their club season finishes as to the
team that they send, so you know, it'll be largely
contingent on the finals of the top fourteen before we
know much more there. You know, they're certainly reassuring us
that outside of that consideration, will be absolutely the best
(06:18):
team they can send. And when you look at the
depth they have through under twenties in the last few years,
and you know, even on the weekend they like us,
they were without some first choice players and still got
extraordinary depth. So we're expecting a strong team and we'll
just keep communicating with them. I think it'll be helpful
Piney if they, you know, just remain talking to us
(06:41):
rather than necessarily talk more widely across public forums about
things when it's not quite established what's happening. So we're
working on from that relationships. Even though we have some
differences in our approach, there's some really good common sort
of alignment that I found.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
We had, you know, on Friday when we sat down, all.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Right, let's hope for some positive news when the new
year rolls around. Are the rugby issues around? We had
New World Rugby chair Brett Robinson, doctor Brett Robinson on
the show last weekend. He was the man of course
that New Zealand Rugby backed for the position. What will
he bring to the leadership of World Rugby.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, I think, you know, we obviously spoke about this
and the lead up to the election. We think he's
a really positive mix of you know, a fresh approach
with a relatively modern outlook, which has relevance in the
fact that he has you know, a medical background as
(07:38):
it relates to player wealth here as teenage sons that
play the game, so he understands the challenges there for participation.
And he's sort of also close to an Australian market
with an incredible amount of.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Pressure that comes from rival codes in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So need knows the you knows, the need for the
sport to evolve and be looking to change as it
relates to a range of different things for our competitions
and our fans and the overall sort of evolution of
the game into emerging markets as well, such as North
America and Japan. So he's very aligned with a lot
of the things that we're seeing in terms of the
(08:14):
need for change in the sport, but yet still brings
some good continuity from his previous time on the Border
World Rugby and his overall understanding of the game from
being involved at all levels, from playing at an international
level through to having involvement at community level and having
kids in the game. As I say so, we think
he's a great blend of experiences and insights that can
(08:35):
bring a lot to the role.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And frankly, he's also a top quality leader.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, he's had really good experience and governance and
senior executive leadership with large and complex organizations.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So all told, we think that's a great package to
bring into the role.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
When we've spoken on the show across their mark, you've
talked often about the things which are important to New
Zealand rugby, like the flow of the game, less TMO interference,
the twenty minute red card and getting that through enhancing
the entertainment spectagil of rugby. Things like that. How much
does having a southern hemisphere chair help in the progress
that you're hoping to make around those things compared to
(09:12):
you know, if there was a Northern Hemisphere chair.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh look, I think it'd be fair to say the
start point as it relates to alignment on those issues
is far stronger. But to bring about any material change
across the game requires you a high degree of consensus
right across the world Rugby Council and especially the key
leading unions who are participating in these in these competitions.
(09:38):
So so yes, yes it's a positive. But I think
the key role for Bread and all of us actually
after the election is to be able to bring the
game together quite quickly, create the forums with high degrees
of representation across you know a range of different stakeholders
in the game and arrange of different participating unions, and
really spend the time getting aligned on what we want
(09:59):
the game to look like, and aligned on on how
we work, the culture of how we work together, how
we communicate the right forums are for seeking change. That's
going to be I think the real challenge and opportunity
for Brett as he leads off over the first six
to nine months, and certainly I think most countries are
wanting to be really supportive of that. Any leadership change
(10:21):
like that as it relates to the chair of an
organization provides an opportunity to do that, and I think,
you know, everyone has a really high vested interest to
make sure that happens, because there's so much upside opportunity
for the game if we can do that.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you feel as though you're making good progress on
some of the things that I just referenced, I do?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
You know?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
There's always there's always elements of frustration, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I mean, you know, we saw the game on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We've seen other games through the year for us where
things like TMO and Intervention, where we certainly have frustrations
and we are respectful of the appropriate avenues to explore
trying to understand and resolve those matters. We we do
get frustrated that in some regards we seem to not
(11:10):
be always making the progress that we'd like. I think
if you think of the game generally, the fact that
we've got global trials now of twenty minute red Card
and I think a real positive intention that that'll be
finalized as coming into full law sometime next year. That's
definitely positive. Mass duration times have come down. I think
(11:30):
if you look at you know, club and even international level,
we're seeing that, so that signals is overall less intervention,
even though we see occasional games that we're close to
that have have have those things happen, which is frustrating.
I think overall the trend is really positive, Piney, And
if you look at our domestic rugby this year, you know,
I think, you know, the NPC and Super Rugby both
(11:53):
show you know, the benefits of those changes. I think
universally the quality of rugby we've seen in those competitions
has been recognized as fantastic and a real you know,
taking a real world leading approach and providing a real
example around the world to what the game could look like.
You know, if we're able to get more consistency about
managing the issues.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
You've asked me about a couple of other issues. I
wanted to get your view on reports of surfaced over
the last week or so of a breakaway global rugby
franchise competition, big money reportedly set to be offered to
the world's top players. Are concerned? Are you about this?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
A look?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
To be honest, a point, there's not a lot of
information about at the moment, there's a lot of speculation,
as we've seen a few times in you and I
have talked about different topics this year where there's been
lots of speculation but not necessarily a lot of substance.
So we've just got more work to do to try
and understand what might be happening. It's good to be
up here at the moment. These these things tend to
happen when the Games come together with a lot of
(12:52):
teams being in the European continent, so you know, we'll
continue to see, you know, what might be happened, but
at the moment, there's not a lot of there's not
a lot of detail around it as we speak.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
All right, Well again, keep keep tabs on that news
this week of a tour by the New Zealand under
eighty five kilogram side off to Sri Lanka next year.
Can you tell us a bit more about THO.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, I mean, we're super excited about this. I think
we've been really positive about the development of our under
eighty five club competition that we've run for the last
three or four years now, I think, and every year
we've seen increased participation in that always culminates in a
Great Final, which is a curtain raiser to an All
Blacks Test match, which is a fantastic opportunity for the
(13:38):
for not only those players but in families, but the
community game overall. And the next evolution is that we've
been sort of approached by people in New Zealand to
help support it, and then yeah, the Sri Lankan government
and Rugby Union have become really interested in this as
a as an opportunity to take take that level of
(14:01):
the game to the next level with an international component.
So look, it's a few credit to people like Steve
Lancaster and Might hessor within our organization that have done
a huge amount of work on that stand, the provinces
that have gotten behind it to support the clubs becoming involved,
and yeah, we'd like to think it's got you know, real,
real legs for the future about having more international teams participating.
(14:24):
We don't want it to become a massive, you know,
high performance area piney, but if it's if it's something
that engages with players across a range of different countries
and it feels like the Asia Pacific region, you know,
Southeast Asia, Japan, Thailand, there's a whole lot of in
Sri Lanka, obviously a whole lot of countries where rugby
(14:44):
has more of a footing than we give them credit for.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
And if this is an avenue by.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Which we can inspire people to get more involved and
compete with the likes of New Zealand and Australia and
other more established unions that might want to become involved
in this, we think it could be a really cool
initiative for the future, all.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Right, And just to bring it back to our grassroots,
I guess the rugby fan to finish somecouraging numbers released
in the last few weeks around community rugby participation, also
attendance and viewership for Super Rugby and NPC. As we
move into a new year, are you optimistic about rugby's
ongoing place at the top of our sporting landscape?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Absolutely, Piney, You know, I know it's been a challenging
few years at times, but when you think of the
journey we've worked through and the fact that now we're
seeing sort of culmination of a lot of hard work
that's gone on at at all levels of the game.
You know, if you look at the where you know
the woman's game is placed now both at a community
(15:44):
and a.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Semi professional professional area.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You know, it's an amazing trajectory that's on if you
look at the community game to see year on year
and increase of participation of teenage boys, as you know,
we've not seen that in many, many many years. So
and overall numbers back in that space back to about
almost pre COVID, given how many players lost during that time,
(16:08):
that's a fantastic result. The viewership and engagement at NPC
and Super evers is never, you know, never been high.
Certainly in recent times around NPC, there's some fantastic performances
in terms of the quality of the competition and the
uncertainy of it coming through. And and look, we we're
really encouraged with where our teams in Black are heading.
(16:29):
You know, we know what more work to do in
the with the Black Ferns leading into a Pinnacle event
next year. We've talked about the All Blacks. Our sevens
teams continue to really perform well consistently on the on
the global stage with World seven. So you know, across
the ball we're a board. Sorry, we're really really heartened
with where where we're tracking with the game, and we
(16:51):
see it, I guess as sort of something that validates
us being continue to be bold in a range of areas.
You know, we will continue to lead the conversation on
the global stage around the shape of the game. We
will continue to innovate at the community level around new law, safety,
new formats for community participants. You know, we will continue
(17:12):
to look to be innovative around the way we engage
with people that are coaching the game in our part
of the world, with the learning platforms we're developing there
and all the safety platforms that we've developed where we're
acknowledged as being world leading as well. So yeah, look,
we remain really positive. We know there's always more work
to do Piney, and we're reminded of that on a
daily basis. That's the beauty of working in my role
(17:34):
that it's a huge amount of passion and care for
the game. But I hope at the moment there's also
some recognition there's a lot of things that are really
positive in the game and tracking on an upward curve
at the moment, and we're looking forward to having a
break when the summertime allows, and then getting stuck back
into it in the new year.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
All right, Well, I know you've got places to be
in the next little while. This will probably be the
last time we get the opportunity to chat on Weekend
Sport across the year, Mark, so I appreciate your time
and your accessibility on at least half at us in
the Cave for our audience this year. I hope you
get a decent summer break and we'll look forward to
reconnecting in twenty twenty five. For the meantime, though, stay warm.
(18:14):
I know you're in Churdrin for this Test match tomorrow
morning where it's apparently going to be about zero degrees
at kickoffs. Or wrap up and enjoy the rugby. Thanks
again for your time.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, thanks Pine.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
You're right, it's a blue sky out here at the moment,
but it's getting pretty cold and evenings especially, But thanks
for all your opportunities to engage.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
And it's always great.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
To be talking directly through the fans and the supporters
through yourself too, So I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Thanks, no, thank you, Mark, Mark Robinson, there CEO of
New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talks EDB. Jordan has to take the tackle.
He's hold up with the tackle's quit the it need
to get the nis to ground well Fries swallow them up,
set up the it. Ya goes out for France.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Beyond go down to fast Senus fort time in France.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Do it again over the All Blacks by one point
thirty twenty nine. Man, it was a week ago. For
the last time in twenty twenty four, It's time to
catch up with New Zealand Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, who
joins us out of Italy ahead of tomorrow morning's season
ending test. Mark, thanks for joining us. As always, let's
(00:53):
start with the All Blacks. I went over Italy tomorrow morning,
which I think we all expect will happen, would give
the All Blacks a ten win four loss record for
twenty twenty four. How would you rate the All Blacks
first year unders got robertson.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh, thanks Piney. Great to be on and hide all
the listeners out there. Look, we are overall, you know,
really positive with the general direction of the team.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
I would say up.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Front, you know, we we know Italy will be a
tough test match. They've obviously just sort of warming into
their work and the November series we saw them be
very competitive in the sixth Nations, so we know that
it'll be a tough game. But yeah, you know, flipping
back to reflecting on the whole year, if we if
we think about the fact we've had a you know,
significant amount of new players into the group, a totally
(01:40):
new coaching and management team, an incredibly tough schedule. I
think it's all been acknowledged by many. You know, this
is one of the toughest schedules we've seen and longest
for some time that generally we're really really positive about,
you know, where we're heading. It's always frustrating and disappointing
Piney to drop a test, you know, for any of
(02:01):
our teams in black, So we recognize that, you know
that that's disappointing.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
The team of expressed that too.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But I think when you think of the unearthing of
the new talent, the you know, the cohesiveness building and
the group, the familiarity they're developing in the shape of
the game they're developing, I think most people would point
to that being really positive.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Overall, apart from wins and losses, what are the other
metrics or measures that you use when you sit down
to review the All Black season.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, really it's about the It's about the trajectory of
the performance environment, I think.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Piney.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So we certainly get a lot of feedback, certainly the players,
the wider management, the coaching team will all report back
through a process we traditionally run. We collate all of
that information and then have a really productive session, largely
with the coaching group and manage a portion of the
(02:59):
management group earlier next year, and that will be reflected
through the board at that time. And that covers, you know,
a really wide range of things about you know, on
field and off field issues, technical technical work.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
It might look at the week, it might look at
logistics and travel.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You know, it was really comprehensive in terms of our
entire environment as it relates to you know, what you've
referenced in the with the losses there, you know, I'd
be looking at key trends we're seeing in the game
and in our team in terms of you know, things
like how we're responding to pressure or certain situations. So
it'll uncover and and go through a range of different
(03:39):
things with with that survey data, you know, really top
of mind and available to everyone to look at, so
you know, they're always and that happens in all our environments,
be at SEVENS teams, all the Black Ferns.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's it's a very similar process.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We're just on the Black Ferns. They've got a World
Cup to defend next year. Of course, how do you
think their place to do that?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I think when you look at w x V
and the game just before that in twicker we saw
a really mixed bag, didn't we. You know, we saw
I thought some really good improvements. I was at the
game and Twickenham, and for long periods of that game
we played very well, especially the opening quarter you know,
twenty to thirty minutes, and then the closing.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Sort of quarter as well.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Clearly, you know, we were disappointed with the upcome against
Ireland and that sort of just showed, you know, it's
probably still a little bit of inconsistency in the group,
and I know Ellen and some of the senior players
pointed to the frustration around that as well. But then
again we saw a really strong finness against France, who
are certainly you know, traditionally a top two or three
team themselves. So look, with sort of eight or nine
(04:45):
months ago now or a little bit more full season
of opicking in front of us, a really good review
to go through, still a lot of time left, you know,
to to work with the team. We've still remained positive
and we've got a bit of work to do in
terms of how some of the fifteens and sevens overlapped
(05:06):
my work and what we look to draw on that
environment as well. And that's sitting with Al and his
team at the moment, but we'll be supporting any consideration
in that space that we have over the next little while.
So you know, we know this work to do, but
we think we can certainly create a lot of improvement
and a short amount of time within this group, as
we've seen happen over the last few years.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Just before we move on from our elite teams. When
we spoke last time, you were seeking some clarity from
the French rugby Union about the strength of the side
that they might send down here next year. There's talk
of a second string and even third string team coming
down for those test matches next year. Have you got
any clarity on that?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Look I've seen a bit of the French recently. They
were in Dublin obviously around the world rugby elections, and
then I had a half a day with them on
Friday before the Test match. Look, you know, things haven't
changed significantly from where they've been at.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
It will really.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Depend on how their club season finishes as to the
team that they send, so you know, it'll be largely
contingent on the finals of the top fourteen before we
know much more there. You know, they're certainly reassuring us
that outside of that consideration, will be absolutely the best
(06:18):
team they can send. And when you look at the
depth they have through under twenties in the last few years,
and you know, even on the weekend they like us,
they were without some first choice players and still got
extraordinary depth. So we're expecting a strong team and we'll
just keep communicating with them. I think it'll be helpful
Piney if they, you know, just remain talking to us
(06:41):
rather than necessarily talk more widely across public forums about
things when it's not quite established what's happening. So we're
working on from that relationships. Even though we have some
differences in our approach, there's some really good common sort
of alignment that I found.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
We had, you know, on Friday when we sat down, all.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Right, let's hope for some positive news when the new
year rolls around. Are the rugby issues around? We had
New World Rugby chair Brett Robinson, doctor Brett Robinson on
the show last weekend. He was the man of course
that New Zealand Rugby backed for the position. What will
he bring to the leadership of World Rugby.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, I think, you know, we obviously spoke about this
and the lead up to the election. We think he's
a really positive mix of you know, a fresh approach
with a relatively modern outlook, which has relevance in the
fact that he has you know, a medical background as
(07:38):
it relates to player wealth here as teenage sons that
play the game, so he understands the challenges there for participation.
And he's sort of also close to an Australian market
with an incredible amount of.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Pressure that comes from rival codes in that space.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So need knows the you knows, the need for the
sport to evolve and be looking to change as it
relates to a range of different things for our competitions
and our fans and the overall sort of evolution of
the game into emerging markets as well, such as North
America and Japan. So he's very aligned with a lot
of the things that we're seeing in terms of the
(08:14):
need for change in the sport, but yet still brings
some good continuity from his previous time on the Border
World Rugby and his overall understanding of the game from
being involved at all levels, from playing at an international
level through to having involvement at community level and having
kids in the game. As I say so, we think
he's a great blend of experiences and insights that can
(08:35):
bring a lot to the role.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And frankly, he's also a top quality leader.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, he's had really good experience and governance and
senior executive leadership with large and complex organizations.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So all told, we think that's a great package to
bring into the role.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
When we've spoken on the show across their mark, you've
talked often about the things which are important to New
Zealand rugby, like the flow of the game, less TMO interference,
the twenty minute red card and getting that through enhancing
the entertainment spectagil of rugby. Things like that. How much
does having a southern hemisphere chair help in the progress
that you're hoping to make around those things compared to
(09:12):
you know, if there was a Northern Hemisphere chair.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh look, I think it'd be fair to say the
start point as it relates to alignment on those issues
is far stronger. But to bring about any material change
across the game requires you a high degree of consensus
right across the world Rugby Council and especially the key
leading unions who are participating in these in these competitions.
(09:38):
So so yes, yes it's a positive. But I think
the key role for Bread and all of us actually
after the election is to be able to bring the
game together quite quickly, create the forums with high degrees
of representation across you know a range of different stakeholders
in the game and arrange of different participating unions, and
really spend the time getting aligned on what we want
(09:59):
the game to look like, and aligned on on how
we work, the culture of how we work together, how
we communicate the right forums are for seeking change. That's
going to be I think the real challenge and opportunity
for Brett as he leads off over the first six
to nine months, and certainly I think most countries are
wanting to be really supportive of that. Any leadership change
(10:21):
like that as it relates to the chair of an
organization provides an opportunity to do that, and I think,
you know, everyone has a really high vested interest to
make sure that happens, because there's so much upside opportunity
for the game if we can do that.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Do you feel as though you're making good progress on
some of the things that I just referenced, I do?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
You know?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
There's always there's always elements of frustration, aren't they.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I mean, you know, we saw the game on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
We've seen other games through the year for us where
things like TMO and Intervention, where we certainly have frustrations
and we are respectful of the appropriate avenues to explore
trying to understand and resolve those matters. We we do
get frustrated that in some regards we seem to not
(11:10):
be always making the progress that we'd like. I think
if you think of the game generally, the fact that
we've got global trials now of twenty minute red Card
and I think a real positive intention that that'll be
finalized as coming into full law sometime next year. That's
definitely positive. Mass duration times have come down. I think
(11:30):
if you look at you know, club and even international level,
we're seeing that, so that signals is overall less intervention,
even though we see occasional games that we're close to
that have have have those things happen, which is frustrating.
I think overall the trend is really positive, Piney, And
if you look at our domestic rugby this year, you know,
I think, you know, the NPC and Super Rugby both
(11:53):
show you know, the benefits of those changes. I think
universally the quality of rugby we've seen in those competitions
has been recognized as fantastic and a real you know,
taking a real world leading approach and providing a real
example around the world to what the game could look like.
You know, if we're able to get more consistency about
managing the issues.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
You've asked me about a couple of other issues. I
wanted to get your view on reports of surfaced over
the last week or so of a breakaway global rugby
franchise competition, big money reportedly set to be offered to
the world's top players. Are concerned? Are you about this?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
A look?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
To be honest, a point, there's not a lot of
information about at the moment, there's a lot of speculation,
as we've seen a few times in you and I
have talked about different topics this year where there's been
lots of speculation but not necessarily a lot of substance.
So we've just got more work to do to try
and understand what might be happening. It's good to be
up here at the moment. These these things tend to
happen when the Games come together with a lot of
(12:52):
teams being in the European continent, so you know, we'll
continue to see, you know, what might be happened, but
at the moment, there's not a lot of there's not
a lot of detail around it as we speak.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
All right, Well again, keep keep tabs on that news
this week of a tour by the New Zealand under
eighty five kilogram side off to Sri Lanka next year.
Can you tell us a bit more about THO.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, I mean, we're super excited about this. I think
we've been really positive about the development of our under
eighty five club competition that we've run for the last
three or four years now, I think, and every year
we've seen increased participation in that always culminates in a
Great Final, which is a curtain raiser to an All
Blacks Test match, which is a fantastic opportunity for the
(13:38):
for not only those players but in families, but the
community game overall. And the next evolution is that we've
been sort of approached by people in New Zealand to
help support it, and then yeah, the Sri Lankan government
and Rugby Union have become really interested in this as
a as an opportunity to take take that level of
(14:01):
the game to the next level with an international component.
So look, it's a few credit to people like Steve
Lancaster and Might hessor within our organization that have done
a huge amount of work on that stand, the provinces
that have gotten behind it to support the clubs becoming involved,
and yeah, we'd like to think it's got you know, real,
real legs for the future about having more international teams participating.
(14:24):
We don't want it to become a massive, you know,
high performance area piney, but if it's if it's something
that engages with players across a range of different countries
and it feels like the Asia Pacific region, you know,
Southeast Asia, Japan, Thailand, there's a whole lot of in
Sri Lanka, obviously a whole lot of countries where rugby
(14:44):
has more of a footing than we give them credit for.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
And if this is an avenue by.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Which we can inspire people to get more involved and
compete with the likes of New Zealand and Australia and
other more established unions that might want to become involved
in this, we think it could be a really cool
initiative for the future, all.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Right, And just to bring it back to our grassroots,
I guess the rugby fan to finish somecouraging numbers released
in the last few weeks around community rugby participation, also
attendance and viewership for Super Rugby and NPC. As we
move into a new year, are you optimistic about rugby's
ongoing place at the top of our sporting landscape?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Absolutely, Piney, You know, I know it's been a challenging
few years at times, but when you think of the
journey we've worked through and the fact that now we're
seeing sort of culmination of a lot of hard work
that's gone on at at all levels of the game.
You know, if you look at the where you know
the woman's game is placed now both at a community
(15:44):
and a.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Semi professional professional area.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You know, it's an amazing trajectory that's on if you
look at the community game to see year on year
and increase of participation of teenage boys, as you know,
we've not seen that in many, many many years. So
and overall numbers back in that space back to about
almost pre COVID, given how many players lost during that time,
(16:08):
that's a fantastic result. The viewership and engagement at NPC
and Super evers is never, you know, never been high.
Certainly in recent times around NPC, there's some fantastic performances
in terms of the quality of the competition and the
uncertainy of it coming through. And and look, we we're
really encouraged with where our teams in Black are heading.
(16:29):
You know, we know what more work to do in
the with the Black Ferns leading into a Pinnacle event
next year. We've talked about the All Blacks. Our sevens
teams continue to really perform well consistently on the on
the global stage with World seven. So you know, across
the ball we're a board. Sorry, we're really really heartened
with where where we're tracking with the game, and we
(16:51):
see it, I guess as sort of something that validates
us being continue to be bold in a range of areas.
You know, we will continue to lead the conversation on
the global stage around the shape of the game. We
will continue to innovate at the community level around new law, safety,
new formats for community participants. You know, we will continue
(17:12):
to look to be innovative around the way we engage
with people that are coaching the game in our part
of the world, with the learning platforms we're developing there
and all the safety platforms that we've developed where we're
acknowledged as being world leading as well. So yeah, look,
we remain really positive. We know there's always more work
to do Piney, and we're reminded of that on a
daily basis. That's the beauty of working in my role
(17:34):
that it's a huge amount of passion and care for
the game. But I hope at the moment there's also
some recognition there's a lot of things that are really
positive in the game and tracking on an upward curve
at the moment, and we're looking forward to having a
break when the summertime allows, and then getting stuck back
into it in the new year.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
All right, Well, I know you've got places to be
in the next little while. This will probably be the
last time we get the opportunity to chat on Weekend
Sport across the year, Mark, so I appreciate your time
and your accessibility on at least half at us in
the Cave for our audience this year. I hope you
get a decent summer break and we'll look forward to
reconnecting in twenty twenty five. For the meantime, though, stay warm.
(18:14):
I know you're in Churdrin for this Test match tomorrow
morning where it's apparently going to be about zero degrees
at kickoffs. Or wrap up and enjoy the rugby. Thanks
again for your time.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, thanks Pine.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
You're right, it's a blue sky out here at the moment,
but it's getting pretty cold and evenings especially, But thanks
for all your opportunities to engage.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
And it's always great.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
To be talking directly through the fans and the supporters
through yourself too, So I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Thanks, no, thank you, Mark, Mark Robinson, there CEO of
New Zealand Rugby.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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