April 19, 2025 • 20 mins
Octagon's Phillip Parun joined Piney to discuss his role within the agency - and what it represents in the world of sport.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Eleven past two New Zealand tennis fans will remember well,
I'm sure the name Honie Paren one of our best
ever players, former top twenty player. He made the Australian
Open final in nineteen seventy three, Wimbledon quarter finalist in
nineteen seventy one and again in nineteen seventy two, US
Open quarter finalist nineteen seventy three, French Open doubles champion
(00:34):
nineteen seventy four and French Open singles quarterfinal in nineteen
seventy five. And the main character Honie Paren in some
memorable Davis Cup battles in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Now,
his son, Philip Paren is deeply involved in professional sport.
He is senior director of Global Operations with Octagon, a
(00:57):
leading global agency in sports, entertainment and culture with a
focus on basketball. Philip Paren is back home for Easter
and joins us Now. Philip, thanks for taking the time,
so I'm tell us first of all about Octagon and
the scale of operations that your your company is involved in.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Jason, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm
very happy to be on your show and to get
to talk a little bit about basketball. So Octagon is
one of the leading sports agencies in the world with
a variety of athletes across the board that are being represented.
(01:35):
Basketball is the division where where I operate. We represent
global superstars like Janni Santotokumpo, like Steph Curry, and you know,
due to basketball being a global sports, I think we
represent players all over the world. So you know, I've
been fortunate enough after being in the business. This is
going to be my twenty fifth year this year, you know,
(01:58):
to have worked my way, you know, into into a
wonderful agency and a group of people that I work with.
And you know, I've been there since twoenty and eighteen,
when I move from Europe to the to Chicago to
the United States, and so that's what I do. I
help players move all around the world.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Tell us about your day to day specific spell up
what a And I'm sure this is a silly question
when I say the word typical, but what would a
typical wake look like for you?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Depends if we're in transfer season or out of transfer season.
So right now, there's something called the transfer portal in
American college. So to be honest, also here with the
time change, I get up every morning at at four
point thirty. To be able to field the calls. I
have to work with a lot of time zones around
the world. I would say that during the transfer process,
(02:52):
I'm probably fielding something around one hundred calls a day.
So you know, you have to get the word out
around the players. You have to communicate back to them.
So that's what goes on during the transfer process. Then
when the transfer portal closes down and the other ones
start opening up, so this is right now happening in college.
Then you have the professional basketball players. You know, players
(03:14):
in the NBA, so there's always rules and regulations and
windows when people move. And then the other side is
basically managing the player's careers. I like to use the
word managing instead of agentcing agency is moving a player
from A to B. My philosophy is a little different.
(03:35):
I like to manage the players careers to try to
ensure their success as they move along. So I would
say it's a variety of things ranging from off court practice,
on court marketing, deals, finances, logistics, moving the player, and
just being a good advisor on the side, being always
(03:58):
there when the players need you the most and hopefully
setting them up for future success.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Can I ask you about both of those and I'll
get to the managing part of the moment, but the
agency and part find you know, finding a new home
for a player when you're fielding so many phone calls,
as you outlined before, how do you work out where
the best place for one of your players is.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I would say that I'm a big fan of teamwork.
So where I grew up in Europe, I don't think
there's a there's an all knowing agent that can switch
hats and be an expert in all fields. So my
strategy has always been to surround myself with people that
know more than me, which I've been very lucky to have,
(04:43):
you know, very knowledgeable colleagues. And so it's a variety
of ways we watch the way the team plays. We
have a lot of computer programs if you like Synergy. Instead,
we try to find what we say is a right fit.
You know, the player's role, what is the player developments
inside the team, and all of these things have to match.
(05:04):
And for me, it's like stairs. You know, before you
can run, you have to walk. So it's also trying
to figure out, like what is the ideal placement of
the player, so that the player then moves vertically not laterally.
When I say laterally, if a player is not playing
in a team, the question is, you know, whether it's
the fault of the team and the coach or whether
it's the fault of the player. I believe that when
(05:26):
players don't play in teams that the player is lacking
a skill set. So that's you know, it's a group
of things. We look at patterns, we look at statistics,
and we see, you know, whether the player moving into
a new situation is going to have team success. And
I think that's the most important component. If we can
(05:46):
prove that thanks to the player's transition to that team,
the team has more success than that's a fantastic start
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
How do you find in general terms, the teams to
deal with?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So in an octagon, we have a very wide network
of directors in Europe. We have a lot of colleagues
and NBA agents in the United States, so we all
work together as a team. We share ideas, we share contacts.
One cannot be one cannot have excellent relationships with all teams.
(06:22):
So you know, we work in partnerships all across the board,
but there's always a designated agents of the player who's
the one you know, who consults with the player and
they really decide, you know, which way they want to go,
and then we employ the entire network to help us
buy that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And when you're dealing with the teams themselves, what are
those dealings typically like? They are they business like? Can
I get you know, can there be some sticking points
when it comes to contracts that sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh? Absolutely, But this is why I consider myself a
problem solver. So just by principle, just by principal, the
team is usually trying to sign, especially goes on in Europe,
for the longest amount of time and ideally for the
least amount of money. The agent's job is exactly the opposite,
so we try to go for the shortest amount of
(07:15):
time for the most amount of money. So that I
think is the reason that agents exist in the business,
because we're here to negotiate oversee the terms, make sure
that the money gets to the player, that the contracts
are fulfilled, and also at the same time to deal
with issues inside the team that can happen because one
thing is planning it, the second thing is actually reality.
(07:38):
So I would say each country, and I've been very fortunate.
I mean, I probably travel half of the year around
the globe, you know, meeting teams, talking with players. There's
a lot of cultural differences if you're dealing with teams
in Germany, in Japan, in the United States on the
West coast, east coast, but you just have to understand
(08:02):
a little bit of the culture, be respectful to the culture,
to the community where you're sending the player. And that's
how we try to ideally prepare you know, what we
call a good fit for the player when he gets
to the situation. Nothing is random, nothing is done without
a lot of work. I believe if you put in
the work in the preparation, then the result is going
(08:23):
to be better.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
You mentioned the philip that ideally for the agent and
for the player, a shorter contract length so that you
can renegotiate or you know, as opposed to giving the
player some long term certainty.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I think, like everything in today's day and age is
becoming much faster. When I started being an agent, we
would send out vhs, the videotapes in the beginning. Then
we move into burning it out on CDs, and teams
would get probably four or five shoe boxes at the
(08:57):
end of the summer full of CDs, hundreds of CDs.
So it's kind of our job to make sure that
the team is looking at our players because we feel
that it's a good fit for the team. But in
today's world of digiti and everything is speeding up very much.
So I would also say that where we started twenty
years ago, there was more longevity. It wasn't as speeding
(09:21):
up as possible. And when I started twenty years ago,
if I would move a player to three teams in
three years, that would be considered bad. Whereas today that
that's that's that's more. That happens more than it used to.
Everything is speeding up, players are moving around, and you know,
(09:41):
thanks to some markets disappearing in new markets emerging, like
for example, Russia used to be a top top basketball
market with top EuroLeague teams, a lot of powerhouses. Right
now because of the conflict, that market has has closed down.
So as agents, we have to constantly react to changes
(10:01):
in the markets, geopolical changes in the markets, new regulations.
For example, what's happening right now in the United States
and college basketball.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, let's talk about the managing of pliers then and
the stuff that you mentioned before. It strikes me would
need to, you know, to rest on a Philly solid base.
In terms of a relationship between agent and player, how
long typically does it take to build that relationship and
how do you best go about it.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
That's a great question, Jason, It's for me. I think
a lot of players think that the agent needs to
be their friend. I feel that friendship needs to be earned.
But at the end of the day, and this is
a professional relationship, the player needs to have his success
on the courts and the agent needs to do what
(10:51):
he pledged for the player. So at the end of
the day, the player is here and we're here to
grow his assets. We're here to ensure that he has
a successful career. So we're both professionals on each side.
But I would say that I'm proud of one thing.
I probably have one of the longest retention rates of
(11:12):
players in the business because I have me personally. I
surround them with a lot of professionals. Whereas every agent
has a different style. Some agents work by themselves. We
call them lone wolves. Some work in a group. So
I think it really comes up to the player what
he likes to do or you know, what he thinks
(11:34):
is the best for his career. But we start very early,
so when we start building relationships with players. One of
my players who's now in the Atlanta Hawks, we started
working with him when he was thirteen years old. So
you're resolving other issues when a player is fifteen, sixteen,
and it's different when he's twenty five, and it's different
(11:54):
when he's thirty five and we're preparing for post career planning.
So I would say that the age is a pretty
key determinant. Usually you know what we're solving with the
players as the player grows and evolves as a professional
and a human.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
How do you typically acquire new clients. I'm sure they're
not all thirteen. How would you typically you know, build
or start a relationship with a new player.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So we have a very very good scouting system as
a part of our agency. So it's about identifying the
talent at an early age. The good agents they know
who the talents are, and then at the end of
the day, the player will get courted by a lot
(12:38):
of agencies and agents they interview the agents. Some of
them do it once and they disappear, and the ones
that stick around the players will see that they're very
interested in their careers. So I think over time, players see,
you know, who's really vetted into their careers and who isn't.
At the same time, Like in any business, players if
(13:01):
they're not satisfied, they will choose another agent. So you know,
players switch agents, agents switch players just depend on where
they are in the career. But I've been very, very fortunate,
you know, to be working with players who have entrusted
me with their careers, and I always make sure that
I'm on top of everything that they need. And I think,
(13:24):
you know, that's what has helped me, you know, grow
in this business.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I was really interested in what you said before about
friendship as opposed to a professional relationship. Surely working with
these players so closely, though, Philip, you must develop friendships
or do you intentionally keep them at arm's length if
you like?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I so again, when players ask me about this, I said, listen,
if your son has a life threatening heart operation coming up,
is it important for you to be friends with a
surgeon or are you going to look for the best
one in the world that's very proficient at his job.
It's a little bit of an unusual approach, but I
(14:07):
believe that mentions and being experts and being there when
the player needs you. But on the flip side, when
the player is successful, then we're all kind of doing
our jobs. So if we set them up well and
there's success coming his way, then for me, I also
take a lot of pride in mentoring the player, educating
the player, making the player understand how the world rolls,
(14:29):
how the business roles, how statistics will affect his future career,
because it's never anything personal. A lot of players have
a tendency to blame the coach early in their career
when they're not playing, but they forget to praise the
coach when the coach is playing him thirty minutes. So
I said, if we're going to move on both spectrums
of this, we should praise him when he's playing you
(14:51):
thirty minutes, but we shouldn't blame him when he's playing
you one. So again, that's the philosophy that I ride
with with my players, is to say, listen, if you're
going to be a successful player, you're going to switch
seven to eight coaches in your career if you don't
move a lot, that I would say is a very
low number. So if you're gonna if your career is
(15:12):
defined by the coach that you have or God forbid sympathies,
then I think you know, that's all we're going to
be solving, is whether the coach likes you or not.
But coach, all the coaches in the world are the same,
from the NBA down to the juniors. They want to
win those games on the weekends, and I believe they
will always play with the ones who will help them
(15:33):
win that and that's the golden rule of the sports
and players who understand this, then they will have successful
careers instead of trying to use the blame game.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
It's the business of sports agency sports management at times
pretty cut throat, at times even brutal.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
I would say, in any business, it's like this. If
you're if you're in top finance, if you're a top surgeon,
and you're surrounded with a lot of talent, and you
have to work really hard, you have to keep educating yourself.
So I believe in in in in any business, you
have the stars in those businesses because they work hard,
(16:17):
which I think is the key derivative and hopefully you know,
have some talents on the way. That's always what I
tell the players. I look for high character guys. I
look for guys that that work off the charts and
you know, hopefully that have some talent. Just talents itself
isn't going to get you anywhere. You really have to
(16:37):
become in a good way, in a good sense, a psycho,
and you just have to want to prove that you
want to be the best in the world in your field.
And once you get that sort of a mentality, then
I think you know that success is insured.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They often say, and it's a phrase I've heard the
all blacks shoes, but I'm sure it's universal that that
good people might good all blacks. Good people might good
sports people. Is that your experience that that a good
person is more likely to be successful in their sporting career.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I would agree with you, but we have to have
a definition of good. What I have seen as one
of the common traits of the most successful players that
I've had the opportunity to work with, they want to
prove that they're the best players on their position in
the world. They don't care about money, they don't care
(17:33):
about awards. They care about being the best definition of
the player that they can become. And inadvertently, these players
they also put in the most work. So it's like
the tip of the iceberg. People see that they're playing
in the NBA, they're playing in the EuroLeague, they are
playing for the national team. What a lot of people
(17:54):
don't see is the amount of work that goes into
attaining that position and holding on to it, because if
you think you know all of the limited roster spaces
in the NBA, it's a true feat for a player
to get there, and I think it's one of the
hardest things that an athlete can do in our sports
(18:15):
is to get to the top of that pyramid. One
thing is getting there, the second one is staying there.
So there's a different there's a different cycle, it's a
different culture, and a lot of players have a hard
time adjusting and understanding what is expected of them. And
that's where I take a lot of pride as as
a as a as a check and as a Kiwi
(18:39):
to be able to explain to them what are the
rules of engagement and what they have to be prepared
for for their first preseason practice.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Philip, that's been deeply interesting listening to you talk about
your life, your career. I can see why you've been
so successful. Just before you go, how's Dad getting on?
I started the chat talking about talking about on a y.
How's it getting on?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
This is? This is It's been great. You know, in tennis,
when I was growing up, I was always known as
only Son. I thought that was my name, and I
never realized, you know, what it's like to live, you know,
with a great athlete and a great tennis player and
above all a great human being. So you know, it's
(19:23):
been fantastic for me to come back after all of
these years to New Zealand. I really cherish it. I
embrace it. It's been a part of my heritage and
you know, as Dad gets older, we celebrated his birthday
this week. My brother flew in from Asia, so we
both traveled about twenty three hours to come and see him.
And it's just been a week full of laughs, memories,
(19:46):
going over pictures and really enjoy you know, spending time
with him. And like he told me in the past,
when I was playing tennis, he saw my backhand, which
I thought was pretty good, but he kissed me on
my forehead and he said, son, choose another sports. So
that was the beginning of my basketball career.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh, honesty is often the best policy. As they say, Philip, again,
thank you so much for taking time out of you
stay here in New Zealand to join us. Our listeners
remember your dad fondly and I'm sure they will have
enjoyed listening to you as well. Enjoy the rest of
you stay and all the best for what lies ahead
for you.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Thank you very much, Jason, and thank you very much
for having me today.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
No, thank you for joining us, Philip. Really really interesting
chat Philip paren Son of Honi paren But not just
on his son. He's blazing his own trail as senior
director of Global Operations with leading global agency Octagon. Great
to get the chance to chat to Philip.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Paren For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk zed B weekends from midday or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Eleven past two New Zealand tennis fans will remember well,
I'm sure the name Honie Paren one of our best
ever players, former top twenty player. He made the Australian
Open final in nineteen seventy three, Wimbledon quarter finalist in
nineteen seventy one and again in nineteen seventy two, US
Open quarter finalist nineteen seventy three, French Open doubles champion
(00:34):
nineteen seventy four and French Open singles quarterfinal in nineteen
seventy five. And the main character Honie Paren in some
memorable Davis Cup battles in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Now,
his son, Philip Paren is deeply involved in professional sport.
He is senior director of Global Operations with Octagon, a
(00:57):
leading global agency in sports, entertainment and culture with a
focus on basketball. Philip Paren is back home for Easter
and joins us Now. Philip, thanks for taking the time,
so I'm tell us first of all about Octagon and
the scale of operations that your your company is involved in.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Jason, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm
very happy to be on your show and to get
to talk a little bit about basketball. So Octagon is
one of the leading sports agencies in the world with
a variety of athletes across the board that are being represented.
(01:35):
Basketball is the division where where I operate. We represent
global superstars like Janni Santotokumpo, like Steph Curry, and you know,
due to basketball being a global sports, I think we
represent players all over the world. So you know, I've
been fortunate enough after being in the business. This is
going to be my twenty fifth year this year, you know,
(01:58):
to have worked my way, you know, into into a
wonderful agency and a group of people that I work with.
And you know, I've been there since twoenty and eighteen,
when I move from Europe to the to Chicago to
the United States, and so that's what I do. I
help players move all around the world.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Tell us about your day to day specific spell up
what a And I'm sure this is a silly question
when I say the word typical, but what would a
typical wake look like for you?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Depends if we're in transfer season or out of transfer season.
So right now, there's something called the transfer portal in
American college. So to be honest, also here with the
time change, I get up every morning at at four
point thirty. To be able to field the calls. I
have to work with a lot of time zones around
the world. I would say that during the transfer process,
(02:52):
I'm probably fielding something around one hundred calls a day.
So you know, you have to get the word out
around the players. You have to communicate back to them.
So that's what goes on during the transfer process. Then
when the transfer portal closes down and the other ones
start opening up, so this is right now happening in college.
Then you have the professional basketball players. You know, players
(03:14):
in the NBA, so there's always rules and regulations and
windows when people move. And then the other side is
basically managing the player's careers. I like to use the
word managing instead of agentcing agency is moving a player
from A to B. My philosophy is a little different.
(03:35):
I like to manage the players careers to try to
ensure their success as they move along. So I would
say it's a variety of things ranging from off court practice,
on court marketing, deals, finances, logistics, moving the player, and
just being a good advisor on the side, being always
(03:58):
there when the players need you the most and hopefully
setting them up for future success.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Can I ask you about both of those and I'll
get to the managing part of the moment, but the
agency and part find you know, finding a new home
for a player when you're fielding so many phone calls,
as you outlined before, how do you work out where
the best place for one of your players is.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I would say that I'm a big fan of teamwork.
So where I grew up in Europe, I don't think
there's a there's an all knowing agent that can switch
hats and be an expert in all fields. So my
strategy has always been to surround myself with people that
know more than me, which I've been very lucky to have,
(04:43):
you know, very knowledgeable colleagues. And so it's a variety
of ways we watch the way the team plays. We
have a lot of computer programs if you like Synergy. Instead,
we try to find what we say is a right fit.
You know, the player's role, what is the player developments
inside the team, and all of these things have to match.
(05:04):
And for me, it's like stairs. You know, before you
can run, you have to walk. So it's also trying
to figure out, like what is the ideal placement of
the player, so that the player then moves vertically not laterally.
When I say laterally, if a player is not playing
in a team, the question is, you know, whether it's
the fault of the team and the coach or whether
it's the fault of the player. I believe that when
(05:26):
players don't play in teams that the player is lacking
a skill set. So that's you know, it's a group
of things. We look at patterns, we look at statistics,
and we see, you know, whether the player moving into
a new situation is going to have team success. And
I think that's the most important component. If we can
(05:46):
prove that thanks to the player's transition to that team,
the team has more success than that's a fantastic start
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
How do you find in general terms, the teams to
deal with?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So in an octagon, we have a very wide network
of directors in Europe. We have a lot of colleagues
and NBA agents in the United States, so we all
work together as a team. We share ideas, we share contacts.
One cannot be one cannot have excellent relationships with all teams.
(06:22):
So you know, we work in partnerships all across the board,
but there's always a designated agents of the player who's
the one you know, who consults with the player and
they really decide, you know, which way they want to go,
and then we employ the entire network to help us
buy that.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And when you're dealing with the teams themselves, what are
those dealings typically like? They are they business like? Can
I get you know, can there be some sticking points
when it comes to contracts that sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh? Absolutely, But this is why I consider myself a
problem solver. So just by principle, just by principal, the
team is usually trying to sign, especially goes on in Europe,
for the longest amount of time and ideally for the
least amount of money. The agent's job is exactly the opposite,
so we try to go for the shortest amount of
(07:15):
time for the most amount of money. So that I
think is the reason that agents exist in the business,
because we're here to negotiate oversee the terms, make sure
that the money gets to the player, that the contracts
are fulfilled, and also at the same time to deal
with issues inside the team that can happen because one
thing is planning it, the second thing is actually reality.
(07:38):
So I would say each country, and I've been very fortunate.
I mean, I probably travel half of the year around
the globe, you know, meeting teams, talking with players. There's
a lot of cultural differences if you're dealing with teams
in Germany, in Japan, in the United States on the
West coast, east coast, but you just have to understand
(08:02):
a little bit of the culture, be respectful to the culture,
to the community where you're sending the player. And that's
how we try to ideally prepare you know, what we
call a good fit for the player when he gets
to the situation. Nothing is random, nothing is done without
a lot of work. I believe if you put in
the work in the preparation, then the result is going
(08:23):
to be better.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
You mentioned the philip that ideally for the agent and
for the player, a shorter contract length so that you
can renegotiate or you know, as opposed to giving the
player some long term certainty.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I think, like everything in today's day and age is
becoming much faster. When I started being an agent, we
would send out vhs, the videotapes in the beginning. Then
we move into burning it out on CDs, and teams
would get probably four or five shoe boxes at the
(08:57):
end of the summer full of CDs, hundreds of CDs.
So it's kind of our job to make sure that
the team is looking at our players because we feel
that it's a good fit for the team. But in
today's world of digiti and everything is speeding up very much.
So I would also say that where we started twenty
years ago, there was more longevity. It wasn't as speeding
(09:21):
up as possible. And when I started twenty years ago,
if I would move a player to three teams in
three years, that would be considered bad. Whereas today that
that's that's that's more. That happens more than it used to.
Everything is speeding up, players are moving around, and you know,
(09:41):
thanks to some markets disappearing in new markets emerging, like
for example, Russia used to be a top top basketball
market with top EuroLeague teams, a lot of powerhouses. Right
now because of the conflict, that market has has closed down.
So as agents, we have to constantly react to changes
(10:01):
in the markets, geopolical changes in the markets, new regulations.
For example, what's happening right now in the United States
and college basketball.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, let's talk about the managing of pliers then and
the stuff that you mentioned before. It strikes me would
need to, you know, to rest on a Philly solid base.
In terms of a relationship between agent and player, how
long typically does it take to build that relationship and
how do you best go about it.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
That's a great question, Jason, It's for me. I think
a lot of players think that the agent needs to
be their friend. I feel that friendship needs to be earned.
But at the end of the day, and this is
a professional relationship, the player needs to have his success
on the courts and the agent needs to do what
(10:51):
he pledged for the player. So at the end of
the day, the player is here and we're here to
grow his assets. We're here to ensure that he has
a successful career. So we're both professionals on each side.
But I would say that I'm proud of one thing.
I probably have one of the longest retention rates of
(11:12):
players in the business because I have me personally. I
surround them with a lot of professionals. Whereas every agent
has a different style. Some agents work by themselves. We
call them lone wolves. Some work in a group. So
I think it really comes up to the player what
he likes to do or you know, what he thinks
(11:34):
is the best for his career. But we start very early,
so when we start building relationships with players. One of
my players who's now in the Atlanta Hawks, we started
working with him when he was thirteen years old. So
you're resolving other issues when a player is fifteen, sixteen,
and it's different when he's twenty five, and it's different
(11:54):
when he's thirty five and we're preparing for post career planning.
So I would say that the age is a pretty
key determinant. Usually you know what we're solving with the
players as the player grows and evolves as a professional
and a human.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
How do you typically acquire new clients. I'm sure they're
not all thirteen. How would you typically you know, build
or start a relationship with a new player.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So we have a very very good scouting system as
a part of our agency. So it's about identifying the
talent at an early age. The good agents they know
who the talents are, and then at the end of
the day, the player will get courted by a lot
(12:38):
of agencies and agents they interview the agents. Some of
them do it once and they disappear, and the ones
that stick around the players will see that they're very
interested in their careers. So I think over time, players see,
you know, who's really vetted into their careers and who isn't.
At the same time, Like in any business, players if
(13:01):
they're not satisfied, they will choose another agent. So you know,
players switch agents, agents switch players just depend on where
they are in the career. But I've been very, very fortunate,
you know, to be working with players who have entrusted
me with their careers, and I always make sure that
I'm on top of everything that they need. And I think,
(13:24):
you know, that's what has helped me, you know, grow
in this business.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I was really interested in what you said before about
friendship as opposed to a professional relationship. Surely working with
these players so closely, though, Philip, you must develop friendships
or do you intentionally keep them at arm's length if
you like?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I so again, when players ask me about this, I said, listen,
if your son has a life threatening heart operation coming up,
is it important for you to be friends with a
surgeon or are you going to look for the best
one in the world that's very proficient at his job.
It's a little bit of an unusual approach, but I
(14:07):
believe that mentions and being experts and being there when
the player needs you. But on the flip side, when
the player is successful, then we're all kind of doing
our jobs. So if we set them up well and
there's success coming his way, then for me, I also
take a lot of pride in mentoring the player, educating
the player, making the player understand how the world rolls,
(14:29):
how the business roles, how statistics will affect his future career,
because it's never anything personal. A lot of players have
a tendency to blame the coach early in their career
when they're not playing, but they forget to praise the
coach when the coach is playing him thirty minutes. So
I said, if we're going to move on both spectrums
of this, we should praise him when he's playing you
(14:51):
thirty minutes, but we shouldn't blame him when he's playing
you one. So again, that's the philosophy that I ride
with with my players, is to say, listen, if you're
going to be a successful player, you're going to switch
seven to eight coaches in your career if you don't
move a lot, that I would say is a very
low number. So if you're gonna if your career is
(15:12):
defined by the coach that you have or God forbid sympathies,
then I think you know, that's all we're going to
be solving, is whether the coach likes you or not.
But coach, all the coaches in the world are the same,
from the NBA down to the juniors. They want to
win those games on the weekends, and I believe they
will always play with the ones who will help them
(15:33):
win that and that's the golden rule of the sports
and players who understand this, then they will have successful
careers instead of trying to use the blame game.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
It's the business of sports agency sports management at times
pretty cut throat, at times even brutal.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
I would say, in any business, it's like this. If
you're if you're in top finance, if you're a top surgeon,
and you're surrounded with a lot of talent, and you
have to work really hard, you have to keep educating yourself.
So I believe in in in in any business, you
have the stars in those businesses because they work hard,
(16:17):
which I think is the key derivative and hopefully you know,
have some talents on the way. That's always what I
tell the players. I look for high character guys. I
look for guys that that work off the charts and
you know, hopefully that have some talent. Just talents itself
isn't going to get you anywhere. You really have to
(16:37):
become in a good way, in a good sense, a psycho,
and you just have to want to prove that you
want to be the best in the world in your field.
And once you get that sort of a mentality, then
I think you know that success is insured.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
They often say, and it's a phrase I've heard the
all blacks shoes, but I'm sure it's universal that that
good people might good all blacks. Good people might good
sports people. Is that your experience that that a good
person is more likely to be successful in their sporting career.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I would agree with you, but we have to have
a definition of good. What I have seen as one
of the common traits of the most successful players that
I've had the opportunity to work with, they want to
prove that they're the best players on their position in
the world. They don't care about money, they don't care
(17:33):
about awards. They care about being the best definition of
the player that they can become. And inadvertently, these players
they also put in the most work. So it's like
the tip of the iceberg. People see that they're playing
in the NBA, they're playing in the EuroLeague, they are
playing for the national team. What a lot of people
(17:54):
don't see is the amount of work that goes into
attaining that position and holding on to it, because if
you think you know all of the limited roster spaces
in the NBA, it's a true feat for a player
to get there, and I think it's one of the
hardest things that an athlete can do in our sports
(18:15):
is to get to the top of that pyramid. One
thing is getting there, the second one is staying there.
So there's a different there's a different cycle, it's a
different culture, and a lot of players have a hard
time adjusting and understanding what is expected of them. And
that's where I take a lot of pride as as
a as a as a check and as a Kiwi
(18:39):
to be able to explain to them what are the
rules of engagement and what they have to be prepared
for for their first preseason practice.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Philip, that's been deeply interesting listening to you talk about
your life, your career. I can see why you've been
so successful. Just before you go, how's Dad getting on?
I started the chat talking about talking about on a y.
How's it getting on?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
This is? This is It's been great. You know, in tennis,
when I was growing up, I was always known as
only Son. I thought that was my name, and I
never realized, you know, what it's like to live, you know,
with a great athlete and a great tennis player and
above all a great human being. So you know, it's
(19:23):
been fantastic for me to come back after all of
these years to New Zealand. I really cherish it. I
embrace it. It's been a part of my heritage and
you know, as Dad gets older, we celebrated his birthday
this week. My brother flew in from Asia, so we
both traveled about twenty three hours to come and see him.
And it's just been a week full of laughs, memories,
(19:46):
going over pictures and really enjoy you know, spending time
with him. And like he told me in the past,
when I was playing tennis, he saw my backhand, which
I thought was pretty good, but he kissed me on
my forehead and he said, son, choose another sports. So
that was the beginning of my basketball career.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh, honesty is often the best policy. As they say, Philip, again,
thank you so much for taking time out of you
stay here in New Zealand to join us. Our listeners
remember your dad fondly and I'm sure they will have
enjoyed listening to you as well. Enjoy the rest of
you stay and all the best for what lies ahead
for you.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Thank you very much, Jason, and thank you very much
for having me today.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
No, thank you for joining us, Philip. Really really interesting
chat Philip paren Son of Honi paren But not just
on his son. He's blazing his own trail as senior
director of Global Operations with leading global agency Octagon. Great
to get the chance to chat to Philip.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Paren For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk zed B weekends from midday or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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