October 4, 2024 • 14 mins
What’s the point of an “end of season review”?
Our Coaching Guru Wayne Goldsmith joined Piney to explain exactly what happens in an end of season review, and what they’re meant to achieve.
“All I'm doing is pointing out what's right in front of you that you can't see.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A month or so, we get the benefit of the
wisdom and expertise of coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith on a
range of different coaching and widest sporting issues. Wayne Welcoman,
I want to talk today about reviews, end of season
reviews in the Olympic campaign, reviews, that sort of thing.
You've done dozens and dozens of these, So where do
you start and what are the things that you look at?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, that's a really good question, Piney, because I'm in
the middle of two or three now. I'm in the
middle of two from in Australian football codes and different
codes and a couple in Olympic sports. And I know
when they ring me and they say how would you
go about doing a review? I always think of the
Liam Neeson line from Taking where he says I've developed
(00:56):
a very special set of skills, skills that make me
a nightmare for people like you. Because what I say
to people is they say, what are you going to
look at? And I saying and nothing. And I'm becoming
very zen, I think as I get older, because I
think if you go in your start a review with
a preconceived notion of saying I think from a distant
(01:19):
it looks like this, you'll end up only looking at
one thing, whereas quite often what's required as you come
in and you've got to look at everything, and so
often say to pet, I'll look at things like the
culture and coaches and the players, and your roster and
your budget and facilities and importantly the interaction between all
(01:42):
those things. So, like I said, we look at everything
and we look at nothing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So then when you've established you know a bit of
understanding about the different parts of the organization, the different
parts of the campaign, players, coaches, culture, leadership, all those
things you've mentioned, and more then what wayne.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, it's a matter of coming in and spending time
talk to people about what their views are. I actually
say two clubs, the best time to do a review
is about six weeks from the end of the year
because people are doing what they do the danger in
doing and I find it all the time pioneers. I
(02:24):
come in and I do an end of season review,
and people's reflection and the stories they tell about what
they think happen is very very different maybe what actually happened.
So you've got to look at the data. If there's
data available, you've got to talk to people from different perspectives,
and so you might obviously you'll interview coaches, sports on once, sports,
(02:47):
medicine staff, medical staff, management, players of course, people around
it and develop an overall perspective of what may or
may not be happening, because people's ability to tell a
narrative of their own experience and their own contribution changes
a lot at the end of the year. But you
(03:10):
start to put everything together, and some of it is screaming.
So for example, you might go into a rugby review
and you might be looking at the fence. Well, you
can pull out so much data on tackles made, tackles missed.
You can look at so much data on it, and
that'll give you a bit of an insight into maybe
(03:31):
the way that the defensive coach is working, or maybe
their technical elements, or the skill level of the players.
So sometimes it's really easy because you've got data. Other times,
things like leadership, communication, relationships, cultures, they're hard to see,
hard to measure, particularly at the end of the season.
(03:53):
So a bit of a jigsaw puzzle. It is like
putting a puzzle together to try and find the real truth.
And you know that great phrase I use off and
is it's no good coming up with a great solution
to the wrong problem. So that quite often I'll go
in and I'll say, what do you think. I'll say, Oh,
I think it's a culture thing, and I go, thanks, Wayne,
We're going to build a new gym. And it's got
(04:16):
nothing to do with the culture. But because you can
see a gym, you can buy a gym, you can
build an extension to a part of the ground because
you can actually see those things. Quite often people do
that rather than address what the real problem might be.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You send me a neat little actually quite a few
neat little sort of things as part of your notes
for this particular segment. You're talking here about the three
S model, when you're looking at what's working and what's
not things you need to sustain, stop and start. Can
you just unpack that a bit for us.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah. I think in the end, all of the best
reviews I do come down to a very simple concept,
which is what is it that we're doing that we
should sustain keep doing? What is it we're doing that's working.
Because just because the team might have tenth. It doesn't
mean everything's wrong. I think while people make a mistake
in reviews by any they go, well, we came ten,
(05:13):
therefore everybody and everything's wrong, and let's throw it all
out and start again. It's never really the case. There's
always there's always some things that are working, and maybe
they're just not working in the right way, or maybe
they'd over the right resourcing, or they're not being used
at the right time, or there's some political roadblocks there.
(05:33):
So I say to people, there's going to be something
that's working. There'll be some things that you go, you
know what, Our defense is really good, our communication is great,
the connection between the players and the coaches is great.
All right, let's keep that. That's solid gold. And then
there'll be some really obvious things that you should stop doing.
So it'll really screwing because people are very good at
(05:55):
identifying problems much better than identifying things that are working
and going well. So overly say, guys, these are the
things we know that are impeding our progress and not
helping get better. We stop that, and then of course
everybody learns. So the third thing is so it's keep doing,
stop doing, start doing, or sustain stop and start, and
(06:16):
then there's some things that you'll learn watching the better teams,
by studying, by research, by reflecting, by looking at what
you're doing, you'll go, you know, what we learned this year,
we shouldn't do that. We should change this, we should
add that. So when I get around and reporting it
back to coaches and boards and executives, hey guys, keep
(06:36):
it simple. This is what you're doing. It's working. This
is stuff that's not working, and here's some suggestions for
how to make it better.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Do you need to challenge yourself? Will be ready to
challenge yourself as an organization because I'm sure you could
do a very good review for somebody and present it
to them all your findings, all the data that backs
it all up. But an organization still has to be
willing to be open to change, don't they.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, they've got to be. There's a great line is
when the student is ready, the teachers shall be found.
I think when they're ready to learn that it's quite easily.
It's believing or not. This job's a lot simpler than
people think. Because if you've been around a little bit
and you're open minded, and you spend time really listening
to people. The problems are only right in front of you,
(07:27):
but there's blockages either you don't like them, or you've
got a political issue or personality conflict. Quite often, if
you're immersed in the environment, you don't see the obvious.
And as a great friend of mine, Jackie, may she
rest in peace. Jackie used to say to me, Goali,
you are the master of the bloody obvious. And I said,
but jack, that's what it is. Most of the time.
(07:50):
What's not working or the problems that are holding people
back from realizing their potential are really obvious. They're right
in front of them, but they're blinded because of proximity.
They're too close to them to actually see what's screaming
out to someone independent. And that's good because that pays
my mortgage. I like coming in just pointing things out
(08:11):
the people that they already know. Pinty often say to people,
I'm not particularly clever, and I'm really not. I'm not
particularly clever, I'm not particularly brilliant. All I'm doing is
pointing out what's right in front of you that you
can't see. It's very rarely you're come in and go
I've got a revolutionary breakthrough. Idea that you've never thought of.
Most of the time you're pointing out things that they
(08:33):
already know, but they just can't see them because they're
too close to them.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Have you ever been in a situation where you've been
commissioned to conduct a review and then somebody who's in
charge at the organization has said to you, Hey, you'd
be really good if you could actually find this. You know,
almost almost, I guess trying to predetermine what you're going
to find in your.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Review, mate, it happens more than I'd like to think
about it. There was a funny story years ago, I
was asked. I got called by a CEO of one
of the Melbourne based AFL clubs and I came in.
We went through the terms of reference of the review,
talked about look and he you know, he was passionate,
(09:15):
and he talked about we want to get better, we
want to be competitive, we want to grow our fans,
you know, we want to be seen as having an
exciting type of football. You know, he's really excited. Anyway,
I go back to my hotel that night and my
phone rings. I picked it up. Wayne Goldsmith are going
and it's the chair of the board of the football club.
And he said, Wayne, look, i've heard you're in town.
(09:38):
I know you're here to do the review. I wonder
if you've got time to catch up, and turns up,
picks me up in a nice car, takes me out
to the Melbourne water of the Bayfront and we're sitting
there having a nice well, just talking footy and performance
and sport and kids and everything else. And he said
said Wayne, I want to tell you something. He said,
(09:58):
I want you to find this, and he gave me
a little piece of paper. God, I wish I kept
that piece of paper pinting. And he gave me a
little piece of paper and on it it had sax
CEO remove headchakes. And he looked me square in the
eyes of very well known media identity as well, and
he looked me square in the eyes and said, if
(10:20):
you want to get paid, that's what you're going to
find in your review. Wow. Because I was taken aback,
I was a bit waffled, a bit, I think, and said, oh,
look I want to do He said, Wayne, do whatever
you like, look at everything, come up with whatever process
you want. But if you don't find those things, you
won't get paid. And It was a challenge, mate, because
(10:42):
which you try to live a life of ethics and
business principles and someone looks at you from my eyeh
profile and says, if you don't find this, you're not
going to get paid. So I went away and I
thought about it overnight and talked a great friend of
mine also in the business, and what we ended up
doing is I did the review and I had an
(11:03):
agreement that I would give it to the chairman to
look at first, which I did, and as it turns out,
he was pretty much on the money. But yeah, you
get that from time to time. And because I think
you know that great phrase to someone with a hammer,
every problem is a nail. If you get someone to
do a review who's an attacking rugby coach, they're going
(11:26):
to come and say, you know what, you guys don't
attack as much as you should. Or if you get
someone who's a physiotherapist, they'll come in and go, you
know what, you're not doing enough in the injury management space.
Whereas the reality is it's never one thing. It's always
a blend, an integration. It's several things that are happening concurrently.
(11:47):
It's very rarely you walk in, you go, you know what, guys,
change that one thing, and I guarantee everything will be successful.
And if anyone tells you that, you know that they're alling.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Just to bring it back to the concept of reviewing
to finish, shouldn't reviewing be happening, you know, sort of
an ongoing fashion. Why you shouldn't have to wait till
a point in time, be it at the end of
the season or as you suggested, six weeks from the interview.
Shouldn't you always be looking at your performance and reviewing
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, that's and that's really the bottom point, pony. I
should actually be out of business. You know, don't tell
my wife or said that, but I should actually be
out of business. I should have no work Because when
you go into a really high performing group, at the
end of every training session, the coaches are sitting around
having a coffee saying, hey, guys, what worked, what didn't work,
(12:39):
and what should we change before the next session. They're
living a continual review process, what we call they live
a continuous improvement culture. So after every session, after everything
they do, they're continually saying, can we do better? And
they've got a culture based on honesty where they can
(12:59):
look at each other and say, you know what, Pony,
I think you could have done that better, and then you,
with trust and with connection with me, would go really, Wayne,
So instead of going waye, you'd have no idea what
you're doing. You would say if in a culture that's working,
a real performance culture, you would say, really, Wayne, what
do you think I could do better? And you've got
(13:20):
this open sharing, transparent way of growing ideas, and you're
in this continuous improvement culture. When you've got that, you're unstoppable.
And that's what you would see walking in a penate.
That's what you would see walking into I dare say
the Great All Blacks. That's what you'd see when you
walk into an environment that's really clicking. They're living an
(13:44):
environment of continuous improvement and there's no idea, no need
for knuckleheads like me.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well, they always will be on this radiotion Wayne, Your wisdom,
your experience, your expertise is greatly appreciated by me and
by our listeners as well. Always good to catch up.
Let's do it again next month.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Can't wait, mate?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Stay well, you stay well to Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith. They're
coaching Guru and regular contributor on Weekend sportwgcoaching dot com
is his website. Heaps of great articles and pieces of
advice on there and more about Wayne, but you can
hear them here on Weekend Sport once a month or so,
talking about a range of different issues.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk SEDB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A month or so, we get the benefit of the
wisdom and expertise of coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith on a
range of different coaching and widest sporting issues. Wayne Welcoman,
I want to talk today about reviews, end of season
reviews in the Olympic campaign, reviews, that sort of thing.
You've done dozens and dozens of these, So where do
you start and what are the things that you look at?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, that's a really good question, Piney, because I'm in
the middle of two or three now. I'm in the
middle of two from in Australian football codes and different
codes and a couple in Olympic sports. And I know
when they ring me and they say how would you
go about doing a review? I always think of the
Liam Neeson line from Taking where he says I've developed
(00:56):
a very special set of skills, skills that make me
a nightmare for people like you. Because what I say
to people is they say, what are you going to
look at? And I saying and nothing. And I'm becoming
very zen, I think as I get older, because I
think if you go in your start a review with
a preconceived notion of saying I think from a distant
(01:19):
it looks like this, you'll end up only looking at
one thing, whereas quite often what's required as you come
in and you've got to look at everything, and so
often say to pet, I'll look at things like the
culture and coaches and the players, and your roster and
your budget and facilities and importantly the interaction between all
(01:42):
those things. So, like I said, we look at everything
and we look at nothing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So then when you've established you know a bit of
understanding about the different parts of the organization, the different
parts of the campaign, players, coaches, culture, leadership, all those
things you've mentioned, and more then what wayne.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, it's a matter of coming in and spending time
talk to people about what their views are. I actually
say two clubs, the best time to do a review
is about six weeks from the end of the year
because people are doing what they do the danger in
doing and I find it all the time pioneers. I
(02:24):
come in and I do an end of season review,
and people's reflection and the stories they tell about what
they think happen is very very different maybe what actually happened.
So you've got to look at the data. If there's
data available, you've got to talk to people from different perspectives,
and so you might obviously you'll interview coaches, sports on once, sports,
(02:47):
medicine staff, medical staff, management, players of course, people around
it and develop an overall perspective of what may or
may not be happening, because people's ability to tell a
narrative of their own experience and their own contribution changes
a lot at the end of the year. But you
(03:10):
start to put everything together, and some of it is screaming.
So for example, you might go into a rugby review
and you might be looking at the fence. Well, you
can pull out so much data on tackles made, tackles missed.
You can look at so much data on it, and
that'll give you a bit of an insight into maybe
(03:31):
the way that the defensive coach is working, or maybe
their technical elements, or the skill level of the players.
So sometimes it's really easy because you've got data. Other times,
things like leadership, communication, relationships, cultures, they're hard to see,
hard to measure, particularly at the end of the season.
(03:53):
So a bit of a jigsaw puzzle. It is like
putting a puzzle together to try and find the real truth.
And you know that great phrase I use off and
is it's no good coming up with a great solution
to the wrong problem. So that quite often I'll go
in and I'll say, what do you think. I'll say, Oh,
I think it's a culture thing, and I go, thanks, Wayne,
We're going to build a new gym. And it's got
(04:16):
nothing to do with the culture. But because you can
see a gym, you can buy a gym, you can
build an extension to a part of the ground because
you can actually see those things. Quite often people do
that rather than address what the real problem might be.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You send me a neat little actually quite a few
neat little sort of things as part of your notes
for this particular segment. You're talking here about the three
S model, when you're looking at what's working and what's
not things you need to sustain, stop and start. Can
you just unpack that a bit for us.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah. I think in the end, all of the best
reviews I do come down to a very simple concept,
which is what is it that we're doing that we
should sustain keep doing? What is it we're doing that's working.
Because just because the team might have tenth. It doesn't
mean everything's wrong. I think while people make a mistake
in reviews by any they go, well, we came ten,
(05:13):
therefore everybody and everything's wrong, and let's throw it all
out and start again. It's never really the case. There's
always there's always some things that are working, and maybe
they're just not working in the right way, or maybe
they'd over the right resourcing, or they're not being used
at the right time, or there's some political roadblocks there.
(05:33):
So I say to people, there's going to be something
that's working. There'll be some things that you go, you
know what, Our defense is really good, our communication is great,
the connection between the players and the coaches is great.
All right, let's keep that. That's solid gold. And then
there'll be some really obvious things that you should stop doing.
So it'll really screwing because people are very good at
(05:55):
identifying problems much better than identifying things that are working
and going well. So overly say, guys, these are the
things we know that are impeding our progress and not
helping get better. We stop that, and then of course
everybody learns. So the third thing is so it's keep doing,
stop doing, start doing, or sustain stop and start, and
(06:16):
then there's some things that you'll learn watching the better teams,
by studying, by research, by reflecting, by looking at what
you're doing, you'll go, you know, what we learned this year,
we shouldn't do that. We should change this, we should
add that. So when I get around and reporting it
back to coaches and boards and executives, hey guys, keep
(06:36):
it simple. This is what you're doing. It's working. This
is stuff that's not working, and here's some suggestions for
how to make it better.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Do you need to challenge yourself? Will be ready to
challenge yourself as an organization because I'm sure you could
do a very good review for somebody and present it
to them all your findings, all the data that backs
it all up. But an organization still has to be
willing to be open to change, don't they.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, they've got to be. There's a great line is
when the student is ready, the teachers shall be found.
I think when they're ready to learn that it's quite easily.
It's believing or not. This job's a lot simpler than
people think. Because if you've been around a little bit
and you're open minded, and you spend time really listening
to people. The problems are only right in front of you,
(07:27):
but there's blockages either you don't like them, or you've
got a political issue or personality conflict. Quite often, if
you're immersed in the environment, you don't see the obvious.
And as a great friend of mine, Jackie, may she
rest in peace. Jackie used to say to me, Goali,
you are the master of the bloody obvious. And I said,
but jack, that's what it is. Most of the time.
(07:50):
What's not working or the problems that are holding people
back from realizing their potential are really obvious. They're right
in front of them, but they're blinded because of proximity.
They're too close to them to actually see what's screaming
out to someone independent. And that's good because that pays
my mortgage. I like coming in just pointing things out
(08:11):
the people that they already know. Pinty often say to people,
I'm not particularly clever, and I'm really not. I'm not
particularly clever, I'm not particularly brilliant. All I'm doing is
pointing out what's right in front of you that you
can't see. It's very rarely you're come in and go
I've got a revolutionary breakthrough. Idea that you've never thought of.
Most of the time you're pointing out things that they
(08:33):
already know, but they just can't see them because they're
too close to them.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Have you ever been in a situation where you've been
commissioned to conduct a review and then somebody who's in
charge at the organization has said to you, Hey, you'd
be really good if you could actually find this. You know,
almost almost, I guess trying to predetermine what you're going
to find in your.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Review, mate, it happens more than I'd like to think
about it. There was a funny story years ago, I
was asked. I got called by a CEO of one
of the Melbourne based AFL clubs and I came in.
We went through the terms of reference of the review,
talked about look and he you know, he was passionate,
(09:15):
and he talked about we want to get better, we
want to be competitive, we want to grow our fans,
you know, we want to be seen as having an
exciting type of football. You know, he's really excited. Anyway,
I go back to my hotel that night and my
phone rings. I picked it up. Wayne Goldsmith are going
and it's the chair of the board of the football club.
And he said, Wayne, look, i've heard you're in town.
(09:38):
I know you're here to do the review. I wonder
if you've got time to catch up, and turns up,
picks me up in a nice car, takes me out
to the Melbourne water of the Bayfront and we're sitting
there having a nice well, just talking footy and performance
and sport and kids and everything else. And he said
said Wayne, I want to tell you something. He said,
(09:58):
I want you to find this, and he gave me
a little piece of paper. God, I wish I kept
that piece of paper pinting. And he gave me a
little piece of paper and on it it had sax
CEO remove headchakes. And he looked me square in the
eyes of very well known media identity as well, and
he looked me square in the eyes and said, if
(10:20):
you want to get paid, that's what you're going to
find in your review. Wow. Because I was taken aback,
I was a bit waffled, a bit, I think, and said, oh,
look I want to do He said, Wayne, do whatever
you like, look at everything, come up with whatever process
you want. But if you don't find those things, you
won't get paid. And It was a challenge, mate, because
(10:42):
which you try to live a life of ethics and
business principles and someone looks at you from my eyeh
profile and says, if you don't find this, you're not
going to get paid. So I went away and I
thought about it overnight and talked a great friend of
mine also in the business, and what we ended up
doing is I did the review and I had an
(11:03):
agreement that I would give it to the chairman to
look at first, which I did, and as it turns out,
he was pretty much on the money. But yeah, you
get that from time to time. And because I think
you know that great phrase to someone with a hammer,
every problem is a nail. If you get someone to
do a review who's an attacking rugby coach, they're going
(11:26):
to come and say, you know what, you guys don't
attack as much as you should. Or if you get
someone who's a physiotherapist, they'll come in and go, you
know what, you're not doing enough in the injury management space.
Whereas the reality is it's never one thing. It's always
a blend, an integration. It's several things that are happening concurrently.
(11:47):
It's very rarely you walk in, you go, you know what, guys,
change that one thing, and I guarantee everything will be successful.
And if anyone tells you that, you know that they're alling.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Just to bring it back to the concept of reviewing
to finish, shouldn't reviewing be happening, you know, sort of
an ongoing fashion. Why you shouldn't have to wait till
a point in time, be it at the end of
the season or as you suggested, six weeks from the interview.
Shouldn't you always be looking at your performance and reviewing
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, that's and that's really the bottom point, pony. I
should actually be out of business. You know, don't tell
my wife or said that, but I should actually be
out of business. I should have no work Because when
you go into a really high performing group, at the
end of every training session, the coaches are sitting around
having a coffee saying, hey, guys, what worked, what didn't work,
(12:39):
and what should we change before the next session. They're
living a continual review process, what we call they live
a continuous improvement culture. So after every session, after everything
they do, they're continually saying, can we do better? And
they've got a culture based on honesty where they can
(12:59):
look at each other and say, you know what, Pony,
I think you could have done that better, and then you,
with trust and with connection with me, would go really, Wayne,
So instead of going waye, you'd have no idea what
you're doing. You would say if in a culture that's working,
a real performance culture, you would say, really, Wayne, what
do you think I could do better? And you've got
(13:20):
this open sharing, transparent way of growing ideas, and you're
in this continuous improvement culture. When you've got that, you're unstoppable.
And that's what you would see walking in a penate.
That's what you would see walking into I dare say
the Great All Blacks. That's what you'd see when you
walk into an environment that's really clicking. They're living an
(13:44):
environment of continuous improvement and there's no idea, no need
for knuckleheads like me.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well, they always will be on this radiotion Wayne, Your wisdom,
your experience, your expertise is greatly appreciated by me and
by our listeners as well. Always good to catch up.
Let's do it again next month.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Can't wait, mate?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Stay well, you stay well to Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith. They're
coaching Guru and regular contributor on Weekend sportwgcoaching dot com
is his website. Heaps of great articles and pieces of
advice on there and more about Wayne, but you can
hear them here on Weekend Sport once a month or so,
talking about a range of different issues.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk SEDB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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