February 16, 2025 • 9 mins
Act leader and associate Education minister David Seymour says he didn't overstep when he announced there would be a crackdown on teacher only days - despite comments from Education minister Erica Stanford suggesting otherwise.
“I think he knew at the time he was overstepping the mark somewhat because it is my decision – I am the Minister of Education, and when we are rolling out a new curriculum, we have to have curriculum days," Stanford told Q+A yesterday.
So who's right, and how does this reflect on the coalition?
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls joined Nick Mills for the Beehive Buzz.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said Be Direct from news Talk said
Bee's team at Parliament's the bee Hive buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi joining us for the bee hiph Buzzers news talks
hed Be's political it at the Jason Wolves Morning Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Oh, good morning, Nick. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Did you spend your weekend in Wellington over the weekend
or did you go somewhere exotic here?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
No, Wellington is exotic. What are you talking about that?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was unbelievable, wasn't it? But you know, a man
of your many talents, you could have been in Hwhite
for the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Wai.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
No, I was not. I was here. My partner did,
or my wife did round the bays, so I was
cheering her on and we did a couple of other
things that would boost the Wellington economy. I actually tried
to get a reservation at one of your restaurants on Friday,
but it was all booked up, so good for you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
About time. It was Valentine's Day. If you're not booked
up on a Valentine's Day, Jays, you're in a little
bit of trouble.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Tell me Why didn't you go for a run with
your wife? You're lazy. I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I don't know. I just like, I don't like
big crowds of people and those sorts of things. So
doing round the bays, you know, there's lots of people
on your dodging between kids on scooters and then people walking,
and then people are getting really into it. I don't know,
it's just not really my thing. I've done it a
couple of years prior and I just didn't really enjoy
it all that much. But my wife, she loves she
doesn't everywhere, oh you good job, enjoys it. So maybe
(01:32):
I'll get a bit fitter and try with her next year.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I don't like. I don't you know what. Only I
love the whole idea of it. But I live in
the Eastern Subjects like you, and basically you're in jail
for that. There's no way you go anywhere, right, So
I mean I need to clean out my garage because
I couldn't even go to a coffee. You can't go anywhere,
you can't move anyway. Yes, let's talk politics. There's been
a little bit of a rift between Education Minister Erica
(01:55):
Standford and David Seymour. Now, I watched this unfold live
on Q and A yesterday and I went, oh, oh,
there's gonna be something out of this because Ericad just
dismissed them, didn't she. I'm the Education Minister. I'll make
the decisions whether teachers can have teacher only days during
the term or not, didn't she.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, looking back on it, it is actually
quite remarkable that this happened in the first place. There
was never a time when an associate minister would ever
make an announcement of that degree and their minister not
being involved. I mean having the Associate Finance Minister, for example,
would never be as bold as to make announcements ahead
of the Finance minister. But it's a different relationship with
(02:36):
David Seymour. And we did think at the time it
was a little bit strange, but now looking back to it,
we don't think it's strange. We can say we know
it's strange because eric A Stepford came out over the
weekend on Q and A and said that quote. I
think he knew at the time he was overstepping the
mark somewhat because it is my decision. I am the minister,
of Education and when we are rolling out a new curriculum,
(02:58):
we have to have curriculum days and it makes sense, right,
But it was David Seymour who came out and said, oh,
you know, we're going to do away with teacher only
days during the term. So my colleague Cletrevett wrote at
the end of last year in a big piece about
the coalition relationship, the friction between David Seymour particularly and
the rest of the ministers, and I think this was
a particular flashpoint David Seymour and Erica Stamford and it's
(03:21):
really come to the fourth year. She was quite forthright
when talking about it on that show. There was no
ifs or butts about it. She said, it's my way
or the highway, and David Seymour overstepped the mark. Seymour
was on with Hosking this morning and said he played
it down, attempted to call it a media beat up
and all the sort of things that he does to
deflect these sorts of story, but said it was more
of an overlap. So they're clearly in damaged control mode
(03:44):
over this one. Now.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Now I can clearly remember when Seymour announced this. In fact,
he might have even said it on the show when
I've interviewed him, but I was definitely it was his
decision and it was made, wasn't it. It wasn't like, oh,
we're looking at it, or you might think about not
having teachers only days during term. He actually said that's gone.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it was. I mean, it was part
of another announcement that he was doing about absenteeism in
schools and this was sort of tacked on to the end,
and looking back to it now, you just it does
look quite fishy in hindsight, and it's good to have
that confirmation today that it wasn't something that the Education
Minister had said. Now, she said that she had spoken
(04:27):
to him after that to make sure that they're on
the same page. But it's curious because if they're on
the same page and he had made those comments that
they were wrong, why is it taken about three, four,
maybe five months for the Education Minister to come out
and publicly say that this was not the case. I
think it's probably because there was some sort of disagreement
behind the scene, and David Seymour was not happy with
(04:50):
Erica Stamford coming out in public and saying that he
was wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
H yeah, you're right. I thought exactly the same thing
when I heard her say yesterday. Why has it taken
so long before we've been talking about it? Because it's
quite a big deal. Let's talk about universities because it's
O week in Wellington this week, big, big week in
the city. Because people don't realize the impact that Victoria
University or any university in the university cities have on
(05:16):
the economy of the city. Now, I believe that the
university expect to be expecting to be in the firing
line at the budget. Can you tell us about what
this is all about?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I sure can. It comes from a story in the
Post this morning from Glenn McConnell, who's an excellent reporter,
so you can trust the information that comes out of him.
He says universities are preparing to cut courses as leaked
information from a tertiary sector budget briefing shows a quote
four percent lifeline funding boost won't be renewed. So the
(05:48):
education sectors, particularly from the tertiary education are not happy
with this at all. I mean, the Prime Minister wouldn't
say what was happening. He said he wouldn't creempt budget conversations,
Nikola Willis said the same thing. Essentially, she's due to
deliver the budget in late May, but essentially it comes
down to this sort of cost cutting mentality that all
sectors are across right now. You can't hope for any
(06:10):
sort of free money, any sort of boost to your budget,
not with this lot in charge. And it makes sense, right,
I mean, we had between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty
three we saw dramatic growth in the public service and
now this government has really nailed their colors to the
mass to say that they're going to be bringing raining
that in. But you'd have to say that, you know,
I mean, this is the comment from Glen to in stuff. Essentially,
(06:34):
it's been passed around a whole bunch of time. But
when it got to Penny Simmons, who is the she's
the tertiary education Minister or the vocational education minister rather,
she said the previous government funded a temporary four percent
increase to the tuition subsidy rates for degree levels and
above in twenty twenty four and twenty five, so it
(06:55):
was always going to be temporary. So it's less that
it's being cut and it's more that it's running out.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I would say I started thinking it might be an
extremist saying they're going to cut the free year out.
I think they do anything as a stream as that.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
No, I don't. I don't think so. I mean I
think that what they've done is they changed the free
year from the first year of university to the last
year of university, which makes sense that after doing that
and cutting at a year later probably wouldn't make too
much sense.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Now, I started the show by talking about the Destiny Church.
Now Aukland me or Wayne Brown came out and said
it was stuggery. He really came out hard against them. Well,
i'd felt and I'd love to get your thoughts on
this that David Christopher Luckson sorry didn't come out hard
enough against it. What are your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean he did condemn it to some sense
and said that they went too far, But you know,
I don't think that is strong enough by him. I mean,
at the end of the day, they raided a library,
and no matter what you think about the content of
what was being read to the kids, the parents made
the decision for the kids to be there. So it's
very much just sort of a conversation between the parents
and the teachers. I mean, obviously Destiny Church and they
(08:05):
do these sorts of things us everybody knows that, but
just Destiny Church and the Prime Minister would have lost
zero political capital by coming out and saying that they
are a bunch of bugs and what they did was
ridiculous and people should stop listening to them and stop
reporting on them because they just simply don't matter. However,
he didn't do that. He did a very softly, softly approach.
And it's sort of like you wouldn't ever imagine Jacinda Ardern,
(08:27):
for example, coming out this softly on something like that.
She would have really really hammered them on it. I
think the Prime Minister does need to use a little
more of his political capitals in times like this where
he knows that he probably have the vast majority of
Huwis on his side.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Do you think that he might not have been well
enough informed because he was. There was a throw not
a throwaway line, but a throwaway question when he was
talking about, you know, getting the Australians to come out
here on holidays, So do you think it might have
been should we give them cut them some slack? Because
it might have been that he wanted to concentrate on that.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
No. No, the Prime Minister's office has an army of
media people. The government ministries have an army of media people.
There's no used to the Prime Minister not being informed
on something, especially when it's a big story. You don't
need to have a degree in journalism to look at
Destiny Church at Pride Parade, the content of what was
being read to think, oh, this might be a big
(09:20):
news story.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I was trying to be too nice, Jason, but maybe
I agree with you. I thought he was far too soft.
But anyway, Jason Wall was always a pleasure chadding a
pity you didn't go on that run, but I'm glad
that your wife did. Be High Buzz we bring it
to you every week News Talks. There'd be Political editor
Jason Walls.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to News Talks. He'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said Be Direct from news Talk said
Bee's team at Parliament's the bee Hive buzz.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi joining us for the bee hiph Buzzers news talks
hed Be's political it at the Jason Wolves Morning Jason.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Oh, good morning, Nick. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Did you spend your weekend in Wellington over the weekend
or did you go somewhere exotic here?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
No, Wellington is exotic. What are you talking about that?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I was unbelievable, wasn't it? But you know, a man
of your many talents, you could have been in Hwhite
for the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Wai.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
No, I was not. I was here. My partner did,
or my wife did round the bays, so I was
cheering her on and we did a couple of other
things that would boost the Wellington economy. I actually tried
to get a reservation at one of your restaurants on Friday,
but it was all booked up, so good for you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
About time. It was Valentine's Day. If you're not booked
up on a Valentine's Day, Jays, you're in a little
bit of trouble.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Tell me Why didn't you go for a run with
your wife? You're lazy. I didn't say that.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I don't know. I just like, I don't like
big crowds of people and those sorts of things. So
doing round the bays, you know, there's lots of people
on your dodging between kids on scooters and then people walking,
and then people are getting really into it. I don't know,
it's just not really my thing. I've done it a
couple of years prior and I just didn't really enjoy
it all that much. But my wife, she loves she
doesn't everywhere, oh you good job, enjoys it. So maybe
(01:32):
I'll get a bit fitter and try with her next year.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I don't like. I don't you know what. Only I
love the whole idea of it. But I live in
the Eastern Subjects like you, and basically you're in jail
for that. There's no way you go anywhere, right, So
I mean I need to clean out my garage because
I couldn't even go to a coffee. You can't go anywhere,
you can't move anyway. Yes, let's talk politics. There's been
a little bit of a rift between Education Minister Erica
(01:55):
Standford and David Seymour. Now, I watched this unfold live
on Q and A yesterday and I went, oh, oh,
there's gonna be something out of this because Ericad just
dismissed them, didn't she. I'm the Education Minister. I'll make
the decisions whether teachers can have teacher only days during
the term or not, didn't she.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, looking back on it, it is actually
quite remarkable that this happened in the first place. There
was never a time when an associate minister would ever
make an announcement of that degree and their minister not
being involved. I mean having the Associate Finance Minister, for example,
would never be as bold as to make announcements ahead
of the Finance minister. But it's a different relationship with
(02:36):
David Seymour. And we did think at the time it
was a little bit strange, but now looking back to it,
we don't think it's strange. We can say we know
it's strange because eric A Stepford came out over the
weekend on Q and A and said that quote. I
think he knew at the time he was overstepping the
mark somewhat because it is my decision. I am the minister,
of Education and when we are rolling out a new curriculum,
(02:58):
we have to have curriculum days and it makes sense, right,
But it was David Seymour who came out and said, oh,
you know, we're going to do away with teacher only
days during the term. So my colleague Cletrevett wrote at
the end of last year in a big piece about
the coalition relationship, the friction between David Seymour particularly and
the rest of the ministers, and I think this was
a particular flashpoint David Seymour and Erica Stamford and it's
(03:21):
really come to the fourth year. She was quite forthright
when talking about it on that show. There was no
ifs or butts about it. She said, it's my way
or the highway, and David Seymour overstepped the mark. Seymour
was on with Hosking this morning and said he played
it down, attempted to call it a media beat up
and all the sort of things that he does to
deflect these sorts of story, but said it was more
of an overlap. So they're clearly in damaged control mode
(03:44):
over this one. Now.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Now I can clearly remember when Seymour announced this. In fact,
he might have even said it on the show when
I've interviewed him, but I was definitely it was his
decision and it was made, wasn't it. It wasn't like, oh,
we're looking at it, or you might think about not
having teachers only days during term. He actually said that's gone.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah, yeah, and it was. I mean, it was part
of another announcement that he was doing about absenteeism in
schools and this was sort of tacked on to the end,
and looking back to it now, you just it does
look quite fishy in hindsight, and it's good to have
that confirmation today that it wasn't something that the Education
Minister had said. Now, she said that she had spoken
(04:27):
to him after that to make sure that they're on
the same page. But it's curious because if they're on
the same page and he had made those comments that
they were wrong, why is it taken about three, four,
maybe five months for the Education Minister to come out
and publicly say that this was not the case. I
think it's probably because there was some sort of disagreement
behind the scene, and David Seymour was not happy with
(04:50):
Erica Stamford coming out in public and saying that he
was wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
H yeah, you're right. I thought exactly the same thing
when I heard her say yesterday. Why has it taken
so long before we've been talking about it? Because it's
quite a big deal. Let's talk about universities because it's
O week in Wellington this week, big, big week in
the city. Because people don't realize the impact that Victoria
University or any university in the university cities have on
(05:16):
the economy of the city. Now, I believe that the
university expect to be expecting to be in the firing
line at the budget. Can you tell us about what
this is all about?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I sure can. It comes from a story in the
Post this morning from Glenn McConnell, who's an excellent reporter,
so you can trust the information that comes out of him.
He says universities are preparing to cut courses as leaked
information from a tertiary sector budget briefing shows a quote
four percent lifeline funding boost won't be renewed. So the
(05:48):
education sectors, particularly from the tertiary education are not happy
with this at all. I mean, the Prime Minister wouldn't
say what was happening. He said he wouldn't creempt budget conversations,
Nikola Willis said the same thing. Essentially, she's due to
deliver the budget in late May, but essentially it comes
down to this sort of cost cutting mentality that all
sectors are across right now. You can't hope for any
(06:10):
sort of free money, any sort of boost to your budget,
not with this lot in charge. And it makes sense, right,
I mean, we had between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty
three we saw dramatic growth in the public service and
now this government has really nailed their colors to the
mass to say that they're going to be bringing raining
that in. But you'd have to say that, you know,
I mean, this is the comment from Glen to in stuff. Essentially,
(06:34):
it's been passed around a whole bunch of time. But
when it got to Penny Simmons, who is the she's
the tertiary education Minister or the vocational education minister rather,
she said the previous government funded a temporary four percent
increase to the tuition subsidy rates for degree levels and
above in twenty twenty four and twenty five, so it
(06:55):
was always going to be temporary. So it's less that
it's being cut and it's more that it's running out.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I would say I started thinking it might be an
extremist saying they're going to cut the free year out.
I think they do anything as a stream as that.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
No, I don't. I don't think so. I mean I
think that what they've done is they changed the free
year from the first year of university to the last
year of university, which makes sense that after doing that
and cutting at a year later probably wouldn't make too
much sense.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Now, I started the show by talking about the Destiny Church.
Now Aukland me or Wayne Brown came out and said
it was stuggery. He really came out hard against them. Well,
i'd felt and I'd love to get your thoughts on
this that David Christopher Luckson sorry didn't come out hard
enough against it. What are your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean he did condemn it to some sense
and said that they went too far, But you know,
I don't think that is strong enough by him. I mean,
at the end of the day, they raided a library,
and no matter what you think about the content of
what was being read to the kids, the parents made
the decision for the kids to be there. So it's
very much just sort of a conversation between the parents
and the teachers. I mean, obviously Destiny Church and they
(08:05):
do these sorts of things us everybody knows that, but
just Destiny Church and the Prime Minister would have lost
zero political capital by coming out and saying that they
are a bunch of bugs and what they did was
ridiculous and people should stop listening to them and stop
reporting on them because they just simply don't matter. However,
he didn't do that. He did a very softly, softly approach.
And it's sort of like you wouldn't ever imagine Jacinda Ardern,
(08:27):
for example, coming out this softly on something like that.
She would have really really hammered them on it. I
think the Prime Minister does need to use a little
more of his political capitals in times like this where
he knows that he probably have the vast majority of
Huwis on his side.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Do you think that he might not have been well
enough informed because he was. There was a throw not
a throwaway line, but a throwaway question when he was
talking about, you know, getting the Australians to come out
here on holidays, So do you think it might have
been should we give them cut them some slack? Because
it might have been that he wanted to concentrate on that.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
No. No, the Prime Minister's office has an army of
media people. The government ministries have an army of media people.
There's no used to the Prime Minister not being informed
on something, especially when it's a big story. You don't
need to have a degree in journalism to look at
Destiny Church at Pride Parade, the content of what was
being read to think, oh, this might be a big
(09:20):
news story.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I was trying to be too nice, Jason, but maybe
I agree with you. I thought he was far too soft.
But anyway, Jason Wall was always a pleasure chadding a
pity you didn't go on that run, but I'm glad
that your wife did. Be High Buzz we bring it
to you every week News Talks. There'd be Political editor
Jason Walls.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to News Talks. He'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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