November 28, 2024 • 32 mins
The first phase of the inquiry into the government's response to Covid-19 is out - and it's critical of vaccine mandates, saying they caused social harm to a significant minority of New Zealanders. Were vaccine mandates the biggest mistake of the Covid-19 response?
Also, the Labour Party is holding its annual conference this weekend. How have they performed in opposition, and how do they become more relevant?
To talk through those issues, as well as reflect on the tragic death of former National MP Nikki Kaye, broadcaster Grant Walker and Curia pollster David Farrar joined Nick for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SEDB dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovic.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thursday dozen starts by joining us for Friday face Off.
This week is Courier Polster David Farrell, Good morning, David,
Good morning. Did I pronounce your name right? You did
very good. We've got an.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
NCAA achieved level one not today.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And a voice the voice of New Zealand. Most would
say Grant Walker speaking, I got total for us of
debt this morning. But that's what I remember you by
Grant Walker speaking.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Well, yes, if it just shows you how old you are,
because most people when they ring up and they sawt
email you know something to do like that, and they
go that's long and they go why and I go, oh,
it's a long old story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, we're not going to talk about size on the show,
but let's say let's move on quickly. Yeah. The first
phase of the Royal Commission into COVID nineteen response has
been released. It comes after the chair chair, Professor Tony Blakely,
made comments this morning criticizing aspects of the vaccine mandates.
I'll start with you on this one, David, with the
benefits of hightsight, what was the biggest mistake of the
(01:39):
response in your view?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
The biggest would probably actually be the spending you had
to spend to keep some businesses open. But they threw
eighty billion dollars at everything, and then we had two
years of high inflation which crashed the economy and we're
paying for it today. So I think the economic thing,
but the vaccine mandates come close second. And it's not
(02:02):
that they went a good idea at the beginning, but
the science changed the early versions of COVID. This is
all in the report. Vaccines were effective at stopping transmission,
but the science changed the omicron one it didn't stop transmission.
So the vaccines went from something that stopped other people
getting infected to something that just protected yourself. And that
(02:25):
changed everything. Because when it's protecting other people, you can
justify mandates, you can justify that, but when it's about
protecting yourself, that's actually a personal decision. I think the
government just got into this corner where because they started
off saying you have to do this when the science changed,
they refused to back down. Even years later. The Defense
(02:47):
Force is still in court today fighting for vaccine mandates.
Is absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Grant, do you agree that the mandates went too far?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Look, I think the mandates did, but also to for me,
it was the vaccinations and the Auckland lockdown. I think
the Ukland lockdown was the big thing. But I hear
Jennie Anderson saying that they built the pl as they
went along, and I think that that is fully understandable.
We just simply didn't know. We can say hide insight
is a fine thing, but that's exactly what it is.
You know, after every big event, what you have to
(03:18):
do is you have to go back. You have to
look at what you've done well, you have to look
at what you do better next time. And I think
we've done that. Chris Hipkins has already said that there
were a few things he would have changed, like, for example,
quarantine and hotels. I mean, that was just ludicrous. I
I just come through COVID now, and from the first
time I had it, it's oh my god, don't come
in here. I'm going to sleep in another room. And
(03:40):
now it's like, oh, no, you can go it after
five days now. I didn't leave home until I tested
negative because that's I just think that's the right thing
to do. But it's such a change from the first
time when the first time we got COVID, we sit
there and go, am I even going to survive this?
At what point do I go to the hospital? It's
a big scare thing. So were this whole behind thing
(04:00):
which played into everyone's psyche, which is, oh, yeah, let's
just do that. We'll go with a flow and trust.
Everybody only lasts so long. And I think the government,
and I'll use this several times today, probably they didn't
read the room and they didn't know where to go.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Enough is enough, and they weren't kind. This was I
think what has led to now a huge problem where
now kids are not getting vaccinated because lot grew of
New Zealanders didn't want to be vaccinated. I'm not one
of them. I've had four boosters. I love it because
you know, I want to do it just that well
plus the original, so five in total.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But it doesn't concern you, Oh no, not all.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But for those who didn't, they were forced out of
their jobs. Nurses, teachers, face losing their entire occupations. Now
you can't say it was for a justify war, public
policy position to protect people. But when they then protested,
the government didn't say, look, we understand the impact on you.
(04:57):
They called them scum. They said yo, Michael Wood in
the house got up and called them terrible names. If Jacinda,
who was so so good at kindness and everything else,
had gone up and said, lock, we know it's terrible
what we're putting you through. It's only for three or
four months and then we can relax them, you wouldn't
(05:18):
have had the anger. You wouldn't now have vaccination rates
for two year olds down to sixty five percent because
people didn't like the government saying you must have this injection,
or you can't go into a shop, you can't have
a job, you can't leave your house.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Basically, we hate being told, yeah, what to do. But
it's interesting. Many years ago along Lampton Key, people used
to put some road cones on the footpath with a
sign that said walk through here, just to see who
would do what they were told, and about eighty percent
of people went in between them. It's stupid, but for
some reason, we want to feel protected. We want to
(05:55):
feel safe and we rely on the government to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So what are we going to learn out of this
inquiry and how much it cost us? And is it
will worth it? I know we need to have some
sort of inquiry, but to me this is a little
bit ott and I don't think we're going to gain
anything out of it, are we?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
David, No, I think we will because it costs seventy
billion dollars in direct spending, let alone the costs and
seventy billion we spent. How instinctively we knew some of
the stuff. We'd have to do it differently next time.
The biggest mistake, apart from the others we've talked about,
(06:32):
is also closing the schools around the world. Kids have
got out of the education system. In the US, they
had some great studies for Some states did close and
some didn't, and five years on you now see massive things.
So next time we do have a pandemic, we will
now know don't close the schools. We will know don't
(06:54):
overspend the economy. We will also know that vaccine mandates
will get too much of a backlash. We'll still need
to do lockdowns. Possibly we might still need to do
mass mandates etcepta there, but we will now know what
not to do. And I do think that has.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Veguable and how far you can push people before they say, actually, no,
I lent last time. This time, I'm not going to
do what you say. I'm going to go to work.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think the school things. I think the school thing's
pretty big because I mean, it wasn't it was the
older you were, the more risky at risk you were,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So I wasn't protecting the kids. No, this was not
about protecting the kids.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
But we didn't. Also got to remember, we didn't know
what COVID was going to do to us. Now it's
like a bad cold.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It's the flu.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
That's a bad Philly fair.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Wasn't At the beginning, the very first variants were more lethal.
We were fortunate that the closing the borders kept us
protected until one it was a less lethal variant, and
we did have the vaccinations too. And you know, there
were millions who died around the world from us. So
at the beginning it was much worse from the flu.
(08:02):
We didn't know if this was going to be a
black eubonic plague type death basically, But the science soon
caught up, but the government policy that's correct.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Did you ever get I mean, that's a good question,
because I never got scared. Now. I had to work
right through it. I was on this job and I
worked right through it, and you got the leave to
come to it. I never ever was concerned about my
own health during COVID. Well, either of you concerned with
your own health.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I think everybody has this concern. The first time you
get it, when you sit there and you go, oh, gosh,
I've got this. Am I going to survive? I said
that before. It's that big scare thing you don't You
simply don't know. It's like, for example, now I had
cancer twelve to thirteen years ago. When you're diagnosed, I
remember I go to the doctor and within three minutes
he said it's bad. It's not good. And the first
(08:51):
thing that goes through your mind is I don't know
whether I'm going to survive. So it's scary. It's the
first time, and then you start looking at things, and
then you start trusting people, and then you start thinking
the health system will look after me, or it will
or it won't. But you become you look at your
life and you start thinking, I don't know what's going
to happen next. It's the same thing with COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
David, did you have ever get scared?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Not really. I was worried for my ninety four year
old father because much much more valuable. But I smell
a lot of time looking at the data long before
it gone to the community, and I knew.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
What the risk was through analytical man I.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So I was like, nope, I'm fifty seven, I have
this said. I was fifty two at the time, no worrying,
And when I did catch it, my then partner and
my kids and my ex partner's parents all caught. So
I was actually too busy trying to look after everyone
else to be worried about myself.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Can I tell you my COVID story when I've only
got it once? Sat goodness and touchwood and all that stuff.
I was busy working away. My producer Jack at the time,
got COVID and he was quite sacked, and I said,
you're right, this is no I think I've got COVID.
So he went home carried on. During the show, I
think Coops jumped in and produced the show, and then
a couple of days later, I said, I it was
a Friday, and I went to to one of our
(10:07):
places and I said I'm not going to go into
the restaurant because I said I actually feel about cro
went home tested I had COVID, so I rang Jason
went standing and said, I think well. Our boss at
the was all our boss. I said, I think I've
got COVID. I've tested positive. So I'm in trouble. Next thing,
you know, he said, oh, fine, we'll just take it easy.
Next thing, you know, there's an hour later or two
hours later, I have Adam Cooper bringing me and say
(10:30):
where are you? And I said I'm at home and
he said, oh, can I drop you a OB unit off?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And I said you know what's that for? He said, oh,
so you can broadcast from Ham. You've got COVID. So
I had two days as sick as a dog. But
you know, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then back on Tuesday,
I was on here.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
That's what you paid the big buck for.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
God, there you go.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
No seven days off for me, No luck, you're an
essential service.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
No, it was stuff he could do with it. But
you were absolutely stay at HOVID with COVID and do
the shows. Now I know This is going to be
hard on you, David, because I know you're a personal friend.
That's why we had we had to discuss it in Wearrington,
because she spent a lot of time in Wearrington. There's
a lot of people that respect and loved her and Wellington.
The former MP and minister and deputy leader of the
National Party died this week. Nicky Kaye aged forty four,
(11:16):
which even saying died age forty four is pretty tough
for anywhere anytime, isn't it really? And now I know
that you flatted with her in England, you spent time
with her. She was a very dear friend of yours. Tough,
tough week for you.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
It's been a tough week for everyone. I'm probably slightly
more privileged in that I knew how sick she was,
so I've had time to get to get used to this.
But Nicky was incredibly private about her health, so two
three weeks ago still she was on the phone to
people organizing things. Chloe Swarbrick spoke about how they were
talking about infrastructure for her love of Great Bear Arlan
(11:53):
just three weeks ago. So I think that's why there's
been such an outbreak, because easy say, forty four is
so young, but right up to the very end she
was so active and organized and still setting up and
by and mental organizations, et cetera. Uh, the tributes that
have come out, you know, normally when a former MP
(12:14):
dies is about what they did politically, it's they held
this role, the policies they brought in. What I've loved
about the tributes to Niki is they've all been about
her impact as a person. People she's helped are other
MP's with cancer, people in her electorate PPTA who don't
generally agree with national education in this and they always
(12:35):
found so great to work with, etcetera. So I think
Nicky's legacy is that you can be an amazing, warm
human being, regardless of politicals.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Can I ask you when you last time?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
He swa it. I stayed with her on Great Barrier Island,
which was the love of her life, a few months
ago and talked to her a few weeks was she c.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, see we didn't we didn't see that, did we.
That's WYB. Why with such a shock? I mean I
was doing a show and then someone suddenly Ethan says, oh,
look I've got you know, a new Nicky Cas. I
didn't even know she was ill. No, I mean I
knew she We all knew she had cancer.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, when I stayed with her, she launched her Blue
Nature organization the night before, I spoke to a large
crowd in order and she was Nicki as former Minister
inspirational power dress, and no one in that room would
have thought she was in anything but perfect health, etc.
(13:32):
Because she was just such a good when I say
performer there, et c. But yeah, Niki didn't want people
to be being sad, and in fact, we've had very
very strict instructions. That's why she didn't want a funeral.
She doesn't want people being said, we are going to
have a couple of social gatherings, but the rules are
(13:53):
going to be only funny or happy stories about because
apart from also, I have to say, all the wonderful
stuff she did those of us who were personal prayers
with her is oh my god, she was just so
hilarious in so many ways. In terms of like the
messiest person you've ever met. Well, I think she went
through eighty two swipe cards at Parliament. She lost everything,
(14:15):
She lost her credit cards to swipe cards on such
a regular basis I d when John Key made him
Ministery of Food Safety. Anyone who'd ever lived with Dicky
had hit her, tried and cook a meal for you
probably thought this was the most inappropriate ministerial appointment ever, etc.
(14:37):
So there was the one thing about Nicky is she
was so human and had all the floors that make
someone an individual and that, but also this empathy and determination.
You know, because I've told the story. When she stood
for Parliament, she said I'm thinking of Auckland Central and
I laughed, Yeah, Labor's held that for ninety years. Havebout
(14:59):
wrote her row, No, no, I think I can win
Auckland Central. And then I said, no, no, you probably won't.
You're just like everyone else in my life who's underestimated me.
And she gave me a long list, cluding her pe
coach at school who said, oh, I don't really think
you're made for running. Now, Nikki, if you don't know,
did round ten marathons, five coast to coast, two of
them after her cancer diagnosis. So telling Nikki I don't
(15:23):
think you can do something was always the way to
make sure she did good.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Heavens, I was just thinking, you actually telling someone that
they won't win. Is normally you're normally right, so that
probably would be one of the few times that you
would have been wrong, I imagine. I think with Nikki
told I didn't really know her like you. So I'm
going to keep this very very brief. But she defied politics,
and by that either side of politics. When you listen
to her, you just want it didn't matter if she
(15:48):
was right or left. It didn't matter. You just wanted
to hear what she had to say. But if you
really want to know what sort of woman she is,
and I did this yesterday. I looked up on Wikipedia
and her list of accomplishments at the age of forty
four is outstanding and unbelievable, and I think if you
just do that, you'll find out what sort of woman
she was.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The Golden Mile read of and it's safe, but Bogonia
House is set to be demolished. After a seven hour
Mammoth Council meeting on Tuesday, councilors were forced to cut
projects to meet a five hundred million dollar short for
after earlier voting not to sell the council's share in
Willington Airport grant. I'm going to start with you on
(16:25):
this one. What do you make of the cuts and
what about the projects that are saved?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Bigonia House will not be pulled down, that is
my view. I think that. I mean, it's I think dying.
Calvert put something forward saying it's going to be delayed,
so they're gonna have another look at it. I think
there's going to be and there's already a lot of
pushback on it. I think they will end up saving that.
I don't think it'll be pulled down. And the interesting
thing is that, I mean, who can even see it
(16:51):
these days. I went to look at the Tulips earlier
in the spring and I went to drive up Lemore
Street and there's no to park. I couldn't find a park.
So I just carried on, didn't bother and that was that.
You know, don't even get me started on the car back. Think.
I think they should do Courtney Place. I think they
should leave Lampton Key. And I think some of those
smaller things can be covered by not doing Lampton Key.
(17:14):
There's nothing wrong with Lampton Key. But this cycleway stuff, Yes,
everyone's going to do it. I think right now what's
happening is that Tory wants a legacy. This is her
legacy and she's determined to get it through. That's short,
sweet and simple. But the Beginal do you think the
gold gold it should be the Golden half mile? Yeah,
I mean, I'm sorry. If you walk around Courtney Place,
(17:36):
which I've done, in fact, I did it yesterday, it's
just some of it is just where the ridding cinema
complexes just looks disgraceful, it looks dirty, it looks horrible.
I can understand you want to do that, but I
worked most of this year along Lambton Key. It's fine,
it's great. It doesn't need an upgrade that can be
put off. You can save money. This is just a
(17:58):
pure banty project.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Well do you think do you think Bigonia House would
be a huge loss for Wilmington.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
It would be a loss. But I think actually does
have to go. Why I've been the we kids. I
love it, But twenty five million dollars for a glasshouse
either ten years yeah, even then, look if it's a
cup of million, but twenty five million dollars. Rates have
gone up twenty percent. You have to make some hard calls.
So on that one, I think it's good. The council
(18:25):
might make the hard call. What the Golden mar though,
I find it quite fascinating because lot most of the
projects are supported by locals, so obviously people generally want them. Kid,
if you're in Candara or of course you'd rather the
council keeps your stone pool open. Of course, if you're
on Tuhim part, you'd like your playground upgrade. But the
(18:46):
one thing that they've deemed untouchable, the Golden Marle upgrade upgrade,
I use their term if you pole businesses, ninety percent
of them hate it. They do not want it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Well, they know they're going to go broke. Well I
build it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah. So you've got all these community projects being x
which the locals do want, correct, and the one project
that the locals most affected, the business owners say please
do not do this. They're determined to go ahead with
so good that they're doing a bit of a school
discipline with that. But the Golden Mile one, especially with
(19:22):
the impact that's going, I mean, haven't we closed enough?
Haven't you know? Are there any cafes left to close? There?
Probably are, But.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Why don't we put it, as you know, to the vote.
You've got the vote next year, and the problem, of
course is that forty five percent of us voted eligible
and then of those only a percentage voted of c
Story and her team. They claim me a mandate. Yes,
but people a mandate.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
People don't vote for you on one issue. If you
want mandate, an uholster, have a referendum.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So I'm going to ask you that. Can I ask you?
You just said it, you're a polster. There's been a
little bit of rumors floating around about Tori Faro going
to polsters to find out whether she should stand again.
I don't know whether you read it or seen it.
Of course you have that's your job. If you were
polling for Tory right now, what would your gut tell you?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
My gap would tell me she's very vulnerable. In fact,
I do monthly polling across the country of all mirror approval,
so we published them every few months. Tories is underwater.
It has the lowest I think in the country. But
I think she could well one. Do you know why?
Never underestimate the ability of the center right and Wellington too?
(20:31):
Can I say, if you see it to suck things up?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I probably could use that other word. They will be divided.
They will not select one unity candidate, etc. So I
think she could well get re elected because there won't
be one clear candidate. You get one good person one
on one, she's toast. Four on one, five on one
(20:57):
will come through the middle.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And of course at the same number of people voted
and the same people vote, you're going to get the
same result.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
But watch out for what Labor does have. Labor thinks
she's toast and they want to send to left maor
which of course they do.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
If they select who are they going to select?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Well, I don't Flir Simmons that should be her and
she threw something at me.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Several times on the show. She's not interested.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
There's been some talk of Jill Day. Ben McNulty has
said he won't do it, but Ben is campaigning for Sufi.
I don't know if it's part. He goes on to
social media with fifty thousand word essays about why he
voted the way he is.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You only do that if I don't think would be
too bad. I like Ben, agree with him on everything,
do I But I don't think he'd be a bad
But this will be it.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They won't want to center right mayor if they think
there's going to be a center right mayor, they'll stand
someone against Tory. I Tory would probably stand down. I
think if there's a labor, a serious labor, that has
to be a strong one. So so labor won't decide
till probably early next year if they game.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can I ask you if you think Jill Day's strong enough.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Former deputy mayor, she's got profile, you don't probably need
to be too strong. Wellington is a very left wing city.
Forty nine percent Willingtonians are aged under forty and they
all vote percentage that's exactly forty nine percent.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
We need a Mahu Drysdale. We need someone with a
famous name who comes in here, who's more who's more centrist,
to say I'm here hello, because any existing council members,
for example, people just go, oh yeah, here we go,
same old, same old, yet again. We need someone who's
come through with star quality, who's going to go I'm here,
thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah. I mean's an all but chnic business person who's
well known, successful, no political baggage, basically and there's no
one else standing. They could do very very well. As
you say, they have to already be that. They can't
be a nobody.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
They have to be a somebody that's and that's the problem,
and it also has to be somebody who's quite prepared
to put up with the backlash. No matter what you do,
you're going to be attacked on social media, left, right
and center, and that is a very very tough call.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And I've talked to a few people interested too, and
my advice is always been you need to get team
together to It doesn't have to be a party, it
doesn't have to be you agree on everything, but you
need to make sure there's going to be enough people
on council that you can get most of the things
you want done done. Otherwise you'll be like poor Andy Foster.
Good guy. But Flu was the real mayor. Flu had
(23:35):
the numbers and she decided what would happen.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And that's the whole point. It's one vote.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Let's move on to something that's happening this weekend. The
Labor Party has had the their annual conference this weekend,
exactly a year after entering opposition. New tax policy will
be discussed, as well as policy to ban Captain's calls,
which saw Chris Hipkins rule out wealth or capital tax
before the last election. Grant Walker I started to show
(24:01):
this morning we're talking about one word, relevance. Labour needs
to get its relevance back. Now Am I right or
my wrong? Or have I got met something wrong here?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I mean David is the political poster, and of course
me talking about politics is ridiculous while he's in the room.
But I have to say this. This has got Michael
Wood all over it. It's very very simple. This captain's cores,
which they've always had the right to do. Just Cinder,
I doned it do the same thing now the minute
you take that away, what it means is there's a
certain group that want they want a capital gains tax,
they want other taxes, and in fact they want a
(24:29):
lot more tax, more than likely, and they want to
control it and they do not want someone turning around
and changing things when they don't want it changed. Now,
it's very simple that if Labour want to be relevant again,
don't go talking to the people who are already voting
for you, because that's not going to do anything. And
the last thing, and time and time again, everyone who
brings up the capital gains tax and they say, oh no,
(24:52):
now it's right. Now we're all discussing it. It's not right.
It's never going to be right. We're not going to change.
We don't want to change, and you want to try,
you want to get empowered. Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Right, David, This is.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
You're the choir And now the real thing. Yeah, here's
the thing we talked earlier about COVID. How you need
to be able to change policy is the facts change.
If you are Prime Minister of New Zealand, you need
to be able to make decisions and the thought that
whoever is the next labor prime minister has to go
scurrying off to Michael Wood and the CTU economist and
(25:26):
go excuse me, lads, but in ladies, but is it
okay if I do this? So this unelected group of
five people prime ministers have to be able to govern.
If you don't like the job that the leaders doing,
role the leader, but let them lead. So I think
it's an answered.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Buy first a question how they can become relevant again?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, the problem for them is the phones off the hock.
That's the term we use in polymic what is it
called the phone that's off the hock? It means people
do not want to hear from you when you lose
an election. They don't want to hear you defend everything
you did that got your throne out, and Labour still
in that mode where they're defending everything they did rather
than going quiet talking to people think about what they
(26:10):
have to do differently, and if they think their problem
is that they didn't come up with enough new taxes,
rather than they left the country with a recession, with
high inflation, a structural deficit, a crumbling health system, they're
not going to be relevant to gain. So to be fair,
most oppositions to this, when National went into opposition, they
(26:33):
often did the same etc. You generally need a change
of leader and someone not associated with the previous government.
Chris Luxon was one, Jacinda was one. She'd never been
a minister. John Key was one. In fact, the last
elected prime minister who had been a previous minister was
Helen Clark.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Let me ask you, and I'm glad I was on
with you because I wanted your opinion on this. You said,
the next Labor leader. Okay, let's assume it's not Hipkins,
all right. Is it mcinalty or is it Edmunds?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Neither.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I think it's Carmel sep Alone, whoa Edmunds is She's
probably more valuable to them as finance minister to be.
She's very impressive. I've very so many people rave about
her and she could be a very very good labor
finance minister. When I say labor finance minister. Though if
(27:25):
I go back to Dicky, it's a but. Like when
Nicky won Hottest MP one year, her comment was being
the hotes MP is a bit like being skinniest kid
at that camp. Being the best labor finance minister the
same as being the best finance minister.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
In my book, well that was set baloney. Because I
saw her on that Island program that she was on
the Treasure Island of what it was, I thought she
was very good. In fact, I thought she was better
there than eything she's had done, and she.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Was a solid minister. She's Auckland based, which helped Karen.
His big thing was electability. They lost a seat by
six seven thousand votes. You got to be someone if
the leader has to be someone who's at But she
was the health minister in the last government. I don't
think people's memories are that short, so I think I
think it will probably be calm or not nearsy for
(28:13):
a long time. But at least is the one to
solidify the base to perhaps the younger generation.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
All right, before we go to hots and knots, which
we're going to go to very shortly, I want to
ask a like question of you both, because I brought
up that I went to Bunning's last week and to
do some shopping, and all I saw was a whole
lot of people with a whole lot of dogs. Are
we brant Walker starting to treat dogs like people.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And everywhere you go dogs are people?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
No, Look, let me explain.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Look, just shut me out.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Sorry, sorry, but you know you did say that we could.
We put our dog down six weeks ago, and it
was thirteen years old. It was like it was part
of the family. It's a really hard decision to do.
The dog was blind and deaf, took thirty pills a day.
It sounds like it's owner was Actually, yeah, although my
eyesight is probably okay, my hearings averange and ruts a day.
(29:09):
But you're quite right. I think I might send myself
to the to thed. But here's the thing. I was
going to say that that I love seeing the dogs
in there. I think it's fantastic. The only thing I
don't like seeing is people walking their dogs and letting
them crap on someone else's lawn, or leaving put them
in a bag and then leaving the bag on a
post or whatever it is. Take it with you. I
(29:30):
had someone walking the dog past my lawn last year
and every day there was dog do on the lawn.
I camp doubt trying to find who it was, because
it's just not on. You don't let did you find them?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I knew you would. Come on, David, you have your
say before Grant keeps on walker speaking.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Also loved dogs, not quite as much as my four
now five year old. He turned five years say he
will go up and ask permission to pet every dog
as as you should. In Parliament they now allow dogs.
That's wonderful thing dogs in the corridors of Parliament. And
I eachally attempt to do a dog myself, mainly because
I went out for a walk with a friend with
(30:10):
his dog, and then we went to a cafe and
the dog was on the leash outside. A dozen women
came up hat the dog go over the and somebody
who's now separated. I think be able to go around
it out with your dog with the best possible.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Here is a great idea. That's the best reason for
getting a dog I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Well, that's that's the oldest one in the world. And
if you are single, walk down Ora into Bay with
a dog and you'll be all right. Might you might
walk home with someone else.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
That's the dog saying, don't pick me David the.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Friday face.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right, Hots and Knots of the week, David Pharaoh, give
us your hots and knots for the week.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Lo the hots and easy one. It's the tributes to Nicky.
It was just beautiful from just sing the helen every
side of the house. And that's was That's a lovely
reminder about.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
John Key was the key to me on those. I mean,
he told some great stories he did there.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Not is why I call corporate welfare. This week we've
read about us the tax par per one hundred and
sixty million dollars into our solar panel company that's just
gone bust, and we put fifty two million dollars into
a muscle farm. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I've got a policy I'd like to propose. Any minister
who puts tax par money in has to match it
zero point one percent got from their own pocket. So
if we put ten million dollars in, they have to
put ten thousand dollars in. That would make them think, Yo,
do we really need to do this? Because there's so
many companies out there that want to invest in green energy?
(31:48):
Why is it left to.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
The tax Although that's not working well at the moment.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
As a dude, right, give me grand he give me
your hots and notts.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Okay, the court for seventy one percent increase in public
transport fares, which is absolutely blooming and ludicrous, and say advertising, well,
that's not going to work. Read the room. If you
want us to pay more, get good, reliable, on time
modern service like Auckland and christ Church and you might
have some luck. And the other thing I wanted to
talk about was quickly the Johnsonville more Stride properties and
the other group which I and it is my more
I go there all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
What do you go there for? There's nothing in the
damn I've got.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
There's a nice coffee in there.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You just walk around there and say this is my shops.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Good.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
But it should be they should be told use or lose.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You should know no way. They should control ninety percent
of that entire area. The hot that this year will
be over, very very soon, and I can't wait because
my life this year has been like a country song,
which is the dog died, my mom died, and I've
been sick, So bring it on and I can't wait
for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Grant, great to see you again. We haven't seen each
other for a while, but it's really lovely, a long
time lovely to see you, David. Always a pleas to
have you in the studio and all that information. Thank
you both so much of a great weekend and we'll
catch you again on Friday, facebooks sometime.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SEDB dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday faceoff with Quinovic Property Management a better rental experience
for all. Call on eight hundred Quinovic.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thursday dozen starts by joining us for Friday face Off.
This week is Courier Polster David Farrell, Good morning, David,
Good morning. Did I pronounce your name right? You did
very good. We've got an.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
NCAA achieved level one not today.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And a voice the voice of New Zealand. Most would
say Grant Walker speaking, I got total for us of
debt this morning. But that's what I remember you by
Grant Walker speaking.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Well, yes, if it just shows you how old you are,
because most people when they ring up and they sawt
email you know something to do like that, and they
go that's long and they go why and I go, oh,
it's a long old story.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, we're not going to talk about size on the show,
but let's say let's move on quickly. Yeah. The first
phase of the Royal Commission into COVID nineteen response has
been released. It comes after the chair chair, Professor Tony Blakely,
made comments this morning criticizing aspects of the vaccine mandates.
I'll start with you on this one, David, with the
benefits of hightsight, what was the biggest mistake of the
(01:39):
response in your view?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
The biggest would probably actually be the spending you had
to spend to keep some businesses open. But they threw
eighty billion dollars at everything, and then we had two
years of high inflation which crashed the economy and we're
paying for it today. So I think the economic thing,
but the vaccine mandates come close second. And it's not
(02:02):
that they went a good idea at the beginning, but
the science changed the early versions of COVID. This is
all in the report. Vaccines were effective at stopping transmission,
but the science changed the omicron one it didn't stop transmission.
So the vaccines went from something that stopped other people
getting infected to something that just protected yourself. And that
(02:25):
changed everything. Because when it's protecting other people, you can
justify mandates, you can justify that, but when it's about
protecting yourself, that's actually a personal decision. I think the
government just got into this corner where because they started
off saying you have to do this when the science changed,
they refused to back down. Even years later. The Defense
(02:47):
Force is still in court today fighting for vaccine mandates.
Is absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Grant, do you agree that the mandates went too far?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Look, I think the mandates did, but also to for me,
it was the vaccinations and the Auckland lockdown. I think
the Ukland lockdown was the big thing. But I hear
Jennie Anderson saying that they built the pl as they
went along, and I think that that is fully understandable.
We just simply didn't know. We can say hide insight
is a fine thing, but that's exactly what it is.
You know, after every big event, what you have to
(03:18):
do is you have to go back. You have to
look at what you've done well, you have to look
at what you do better next time. And I think
we've done that. Chris Hipkins has already said that there
were a few things he would have changed, like, for example,
quarantine and hotels. I mean, that was just ludicrous. I
I just come through COVID now, and from the first
time I had it, it's oh my god, don't come
in here. I'm going to sleep in another room. And
(03:40):
now it's like, oh, no, you can go it after
five days now. I didn't leave home until I tested
negative because that's I just think that's the right thing
to do. But it's such a change from the first
time when the first time we got COVID, we sit
there and go, am I even going to survive this?
At what point do I go to the hospital? It's
a big scare thing. So were this whole behind thing
(04:00):
which played into everyone's psyche, which is, oh, yeah, let's
just do that. We'll go with a flow and trust.
Everybody only lasts so long. And I think the government,
and I'll use this several times today, probably they didn't
read the room and they didn't know where to go.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Enough is enough, and they weren't kind. This was I
think what has led to now a huge problem where
now kids are not getting vaccinated because lot grew of
New Zealanders didn't want to be vaccinated. I'm not one
of them. I've had four boosters. I love it because
you know, I want to do it just that well
plus the original, so five in total.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But it doesn't concern you, Oh no, not all.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
But for those who didn't, they were forced out of
their jobs. Nurses, teachers, face losing their entire occupations. Now
you can't say it was for a justify war, public
policy position to protect people. But when they then protested,
the government didn't say, look, we understand the impact on you.
(04:57):
They called them scum. They said yo, Michael Wood in
the house got up and called them terrible names. If Jacinda,
who was so so good at kindness and everything else,
had gone up and said, lock, we know it's terrible
what we're putting you through. It's only for three or
four months and then we can relax them, you wouldn't
(05:18):
have had the anger. You wouldn't now have vaccination rates
for two year olds down to sixty five percent because
people didn't like the government saying you must have this injection,
or you can't go into a shop, you can't have
a job, you can't leave your house.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Basically, we hate being told, yeah, what to do. But
it's interesting. Many years ago along Lampton Key, people used
to put some road cones on the footpath with a
sign that said walk through here, just to see who
would do what they were told, and about eighty percent
of people went in between them. It's stupid, but for
some reason, we want to feel protected. We want to
(05:55):
feel safe and we rely on the government to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So what are we going to learn out of this
inquiry and how much it cost us? And is it
will worth it? I know we need to have some
sort of inquiry, but to me this is a little
bit ott and I don't think we're going to gain
anything out of it, are we?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
David, No, I think we will because it costs seventy
billion dollars in direct spending, let alone the costs and
seventy billion we spent. How instinctively we knew some of
the stuff. We'd have to do it differently next time.
The biggest mistake, apart from the others we've talked about,
(06:32):
is also closing the schools around the world. Kids have
got out of the education system. In the US, they
had some great studies for Some states did close and
some didn't, and five years on you now see massive things.
So next time we do have a pandemic, we will
now know don't close the schools. We will know don't
(06:54):
overspend the economy. We will also know that vaccine mandates
will get too much of a backlash. We'll still need
to do lockdowns. Possibly we might still need to do
mass mandates etcepta there, but we will now know what
not to do. And I do think that has.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Veguable and how far you can push people before they say, actually, no,
I lent last time. This time, I'm not going to
do what you say. I'm going to go to work.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think the school things. I think the school thing's
pretty big because I mean, it wasn't it was the
older you were, the more risky at risk you were,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So I wasn't protecting the kids. No, this was not
about protecting the kids.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
But we didn't. Also got to remember, we didn't know
what COVID was going to do to us. Now it's
like a bad cold.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It's the flu.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
That's a bad Philly fair.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Wasn't At the beginning, the very first variants were more lethal.
We were fortunate that the closing the borders kept us
protected until one it was a less lethal variant, and
we did have the vaccinations too. And you know, there
were millions who died around the world from us. So
at the beginning it was much worse from the flu.
(08:02):
We didn't know if this was going to be a
black eubonic plague type death basically, But the science soon
caught up, but the government policy that's correct.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Did you ever get I mean, that's a good question,
because I never got scared. Now. I had to work
right through it. I was on this job and I
worked right through it, and you got the leave to
come to it. I never ever was concerned about my
own health during COVID. Well, either of you concerned with
your own health.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I think everybody has this concern. The first time you
get it, when you sit there and you go, oh, gosh,
I've got this. Am I going to survive? I said
that before. It's that big scare thing you don't You
simply don't know. It's like, for example, now I had
cancer twelve to thirteen years ago. When you're diagnosed, I
remember I go to the doctor and within three minutes
he said it's bad. It's not good. And the first
(08:51):
thing that goes through your mind is I don't know
whether I'm going to survive. So it's scary. It's the
first time, and then you start looking at things, and
then you start trusting people, and then you start thinking
the health system will look after me, or it will
or it won't. But you become you look at your
life and you start thinking, I don't know what's going
to happen next. It's the same thing with COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
David, did you have ever get scared?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Not really. I was worried for my ninety four year
old father because much much more valuable. But I smell
a lot of time looking at the data long before
it gone to the community, and I knew.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
What the risk was through analytical man I.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So I was like, nope, I'm fifty seven, I have
this said. I was fifty two at the time, no worrying,
And when I did catch it, my then partner and
my kids and my ex partner's parents all caught. So
I was actually too busy trying to look after everyone
else to be worried about myself.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Can I tell you my COVID story when I've only
got it once? Sat goodness and touchwood and all that stuff.
I was busy working away. My producer Jack at the time,
got COVID and he was quite sacked, and I said,
you're right, this is no I think I've got COVID.
So he went home carried on. During the show, I
think Coops jumped in and produced the show, and then
a couple of days later, I said, I it was
a Friday, and I went to to one of our
(10:07):
places and I said I'm not going to go into
the restaurant because I said I actually feel about cro
went home tested I had COVID, so I rang Jason
went standing and said, I think well. Our boss at
the was all our boss. I said, I think I've
got COVID. I've tested positive. So I'm in trouble. Next thing,
you know, he said, oh, fine, we'll just take it easy.
Next thing, you know, there's an hour later or two
hours later, I have Adam Cooper bringing me and say
(10:30):
where are you? And I said I'm at home and
he said, oh, can I drop you a OB unit off?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And I said you know what's that for? He said, oh,
so you can broadcast from Ham. You've got COVID. So
I had two days as sick as a dog. But
you know, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then back on Tuesday,
I was on here.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
That's what you paid the big buck for.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
God, there you go.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
No seven days off for me, No luck, you're an
essential service.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
No, it was stuff he could do with it. But
you were absolutely stay at HOVID with COVID and do
the shows. Now I know This is going to be
hard on you, David, because I know you're a personal friend.
That's why we had we had to discuss it in Wearrington,
because she spent a lot of time in Wearrington. There's
a lot of people that respect and loved her and Wellington.
The former MP and minister and deputy leader of the
National Party died this week. Nicky Kaye aged forty four,
(11:16):
which even saying died age forty four is pretty tough
for anywhere anytime, isn't it really? And now I know
that you flatted with her in England, you spent time
with her. She was a very dear friend of yours. Tough,
tough week for you.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
It's been a tough week for everyone. I'm probably slightly
more privileged in that I knew how sick she was,
so I've had time to get to get used to this.
But Nicky was incredibly private about her health, so two
three weeks ago still she was on the phone to
people organizing things. Chloe Swarbrick spoke about how they were
talking about infrastructure for her love of Great Bear Arlan
(11:53):
just three weeks ago. So I think that's why there's
been such an outbreak, because easy say, forty four is
so young, but right up to the very end she
was so active and organized and still setting up and
by and mental organizations, et cetera. Uh, the tributes that
have come out, you know, normally when a former MP
(12:14):
dies is about what they did politically, it's they held
this role, the policies they brought in. What I've loved
about the tributes to Niki is they've all been about
her impact as a person. People she's helped are other
MP's with cancer, people in her electorate PPTA who don't
generally agree with national education in this and they always
(12:35):
found so great to work with, etcetera. So I think
Nicky's legacy is that you can be an amazing, warm
human being, regardless of politicals.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Can I ask you when you last time?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
He swa it. I stayed with her on Great Barrier Island,
which was the love of her life, a few months
ago and talked to her a few weeks was she c.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, yeah, see we didn't we didn't see that, did we.
That's WYB. Why with such a shock? I mean I
was doing a show and then someone suddenly Ethan says, oh,
look I've got you know, a new Nicky Cas. I
didn't even know she was ill. No, I mean I
knew she We all knew she had cancer.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, when I stayed with her, she launched her Blue
Nature organization the night before, I spoke to a large
crowd in order and she was Nicki as former Minister
inspirational power dress, and no one in that room would
have thought she was in anything but perfect health, etc.
(13:32):
Because she was just such a good when I say
performer there, et c. But yeah, Niki didn't want people
to be being sad, and in fact, we've had very
very strict instructions. That's why she didn't want a funeral.
She doesn't want people being said, we are going to
have a couple of social gatherings, but the rules are
(13:53):
going to be only funny or happy stories about because
apart from also, I have to say, all the wonderful
stuff she did those of us who were personal prayers
with her is oh my god, she was just so
hilarious in so many ways. In terms of like the
messiest person you've ever met. Well, I think she went
through eighty two swipe cards at Parliament. She lost everything,
(14:15):
She lost her credit cards to swipe cards on such
a regular basis I d when John Key made him
Ministery of Food Safety. Anyone who'd ever lived with Dicky
had hit her, tried and cook a meal for you
probably thought this was the most inappropriate ministerial appointment ever, etc.
(14:37):
So there was the one thing about Nicky is she
was so human and had all the floors that make
someone an individual and that, but also this empathy and determination.
You know, because I've told the story. When she stood
for Parliament, she said I'm thinking of Auckland Central and
I laughed, Yeah, Labor's held that for ninety years. Havebout
(14:59):
wrote her row, No, no, I think I can win
Auckland Central. And then I said, no, no, you probably won't.
You're just like everyone else in my life who's underestimated me.
And she gave me a long list, cluding her pe
coach at school who said, oh, I don't really think
you're made for running. Now, Nikki, if you don't know,
did round ten marathons, five coast to coast, two of
them after her cancer diagnosis. So telling Nikki I don't
(15:23):
think you can do something was always the way to
make sure she did good.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Heavens, I was just thinking, you actually telling someone that
they won't win. Is normally you're normally right, so that
probably would be one of the few times that you
would have been wrong, I imagine. I think with Nikki
told I didn't really know her like you. So I'm
going to keep this very very brief. But she defied politics,
and by that either side of politics. When you listen
to her, you just want it didn't matter if she
(15:48):
was right or left. It didn't matter. You just wanted
to hear what she had to say. But if you
really want to know what sort of woman she is,
and I did this yesterday. I looked up on Wikipedia
and her list of accomplishments at the age of forty
four is outstanding and unbelievable, and I think if you
just do that, you'll find out what sort of woman
she was.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The Golden Mile read of and it's safe, but Bogonia
House is set to be demolished. After a seven hour
Mammoth Council meeting on Tuesday, councilors were forced to cut
projects to meet a five hundred million dollar short for
after earlier voting not to sell the council's share in
Willington Airport grant. I'm going to start with you on
(16:25):
this one. What do you make of the cuts and
what about the projects that are saved?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Bigonia House will not be pulled down, that is
my view. I think that. I mean, it's I think dying.
Calvert put something forward saying it's going to be delayed,
so they're gonna have another look at it. I think
there's going to be and there's already a lot of
pushback on it. I think they will end up saving that.
I don't think it'll be pulled down. And the interesting
thing is that, I mean, who can even see it
(16:51):
these days. I went to look at the Tulips earlier
in the spring and I went to drive up Lemore
Street and there's no to park. I couldn't find a park.
So I just carried on, didn't bother and that was that.
You know, don't even get me started on the car back. Think.
I think they should do Courtney Place. I think they
should leave Lampton Key. And I think some of those
smaller things can be covered by not doing Lampton Key.
(17:14):
There's nothing wrong with Lampton Key. But this cycleway stuff, Yes,
everyone's going to do it. I think right now what's
happening is that Tory wants a legacy. This is her
legacy and she's determined to get it through. That's short,
sweet and simple. But the Beginal do you think the
gold gold it should be the Golden half mile? Yeah,
I mean, I'm sorry. If you walk around Courtney Place,
(17:36):
which I've done, in fact, I did it yesterday, it's
just some of it is just where the ridding cinema
complexes just looks disgraceful, it looks dirty, it looks horrible.
I can understand you want to do that, but I
worked most of this year along Lambton Key. It's fine,
it's great. It doesn't need an upgrade that can be
put off. You can save money. This is just a
(17:58):
pure banty project.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Well do you think do you think Bigonia House would
be a huge loss for Wilmington.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
It would be a loss. But I think actually does
have to go. Why I've been the we kids. I
love it, But twenty five million dollars for a glasshouse
either ten years yeah, even then, look if it's a
cup of million, but twenty five million dollars. Rates have
gone up twenty percent. You have to make some hard calls.
So on that one, I think it's good. The council
(18:25):
might make the hard call. What the Golden mar though,
I find it quite fascinating because lot most of the
projects are supported by locals, so obviously people generally want them. Kid,
if you're in Candara or of course you'd rather the
council keeps your stone pool open. Of course, if you're
on Tuhim part, you'd like your playground upgrade. But the
(18:46):
one thing that they've deemed untouchable, the Golden Marle upgrade upgrade,
I use their term if you pole businesses, ninety percent
of them hate it. They do not want it.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Well, they know they're going to go broke. Well I
build it.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah. So you've got all these community projects being x
which the locals do want, correct, and the one project
that the locals most affected, the business owners say please
do not do this. They're determined to go ahead with
so good that they're doing a bit of a school
discipline with that. But the Golden Mile one, especially with
(19:22):
the impact that's going, I mean, haven't we closed enough?
Haven't you know? Are there any cafes left to close? There?
Probably are, But.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Why don't we put it, as you know, to the vote.
You've got the vote next year, and the problem, of
course is that forty five percent of us voted eligible
and then of those only a percentage voted of c
Story and her team. They claim me a mandate. Yes,
but people a mandate.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
People don't vote for you on one issue. If you
want mandate, an uholster, have a referendum.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So I'm going to ask you that. Can I ask you?
You just said it, you're a polster. There's been a
little bit of rumors floating around about Tori Faro going
to polsters to find out whether she should stand again.
I don't know whether you read it or seen it.
Of course you have that's your job. If you were
polling for Tory right now, what would your gut tell you?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
My gap would tell me she's very vulnerable. In fact,
I do monthly polling across the country of all mirror approval,
so we published them every few months. Tories is underwater.
It has the lowest I think in the country. But
I think she could well one. Do you know why?
Never underestimate the ability of the center right and Wellington too?
(20:31):
Can I say, if you see it to suck things up?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I probably could use that other word. They will be divided.
They will not select one unity candidate, etc. So I
think she could well get re elected because there won't
be one clear candidate. You get one good person one
on one, she's toast. Four on one, five on one
(20:57):
will come through the middle.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And of course at the same number of people voted
and the same people vote, you're going to get the
same result.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
But watch out for what Labor does have. Labor thinks
she's toast and they want to send to left maor
which of course they do.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
If they select who are they going to select?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Well, I don't Flir Simmons that should be her and
she threw something at me.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Several times on the show. She's not interested.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
There's been some talk of Jill Day. Ben McNulty has
said he won't do it, but Ben is campaigning for Sufi.
I don't know if it's part. He goes on to
social media with fifty thousand word essays about why he
voted the way he is.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You only do that if I don't think would be
too bad. I like Ben, agree with him on everything,
do I But I don't think he'd be a bad
But this will be it.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
They won't want to center right mayor if they think
there's going to be a center right mayor, they'll stand
someone against Tory. I Tory would probably stand down. I
think if there's a labor, a serious labor, that has
to be a strong one. So so labor won't decide
till probably early next year if they game.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can I ask you if you think Jill Day's strong enough.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Former deputy mayor, she's got profile, you don't probably need
to be too strong. Wellington is a very left wing city.
Forty nine percent Willingtonians are aged under forty and they
all vote percentage that's exactly forty nine percent.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
We need a Mahu Drysdale. We need someone with a
famous name who comes in here, who's more who's more centrist,
to say I'm here hello, because any existing council members,
for example, people just go, oh yeah, here we go,
same old, same old, yet again. We need someone who's
come through with star quality, who's going to go I'm here,
thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah. I mean's an all but chnic business person who's
well known, successful, no political baggage, basically and there's no
one else standing. They could do very very well. As
you say, they have to already be that. They can't
be a nobody.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
They have to be a somebody that's and that's the problem,
and it also has to be somebody who's quite prepared
to put up with the backlash. No matter what you do,
you're going to be attacked on social media, left, right
and center, and that is a very very tough call.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And I've talked to a few people interested too, and
my advice is always been you need to get team
together to It doesn't have to be a party, it
doesn't have to be you agree on everything, but you
need to make sure there's going to be enough people
on council that you can get most of the things
you want done done. Otherwise you'll be like poor Andy Foster.
Good guy. But Flu was the real mayor. Flu had
(23:35):
the numbers and she decided what would happen.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
And that's the whole point. It's one vote.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Let's move on to something that's happening this weekend. The
Labor Party has had the their annual conference this weekend,
exactly a year after entering opposition. New tax policy will
be discussed, as well as policy to ban Captain's calls,
which saw Chris Hipkins rule out wealth or capital tax
before the last election. Grant Walker I started to show
(24:01):
this morning we're talking about one word, relevance. Labour needs
to get its relevance back. Now Am I right or
my wrong? Or have I got met something wrong here?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Well?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I mean David is the political poster, and of course
me talking about politics is ridiculous while he's in the room.
But I have to say this. This has got Michael
Wood all over it. It's very very simple. This captain's cores,
which they've always had the right to do. Just Cinder,
I doned it do the same thing now the minute
you take that away, what it means is there's a
certain group that want they want a capital gains tax,
they want other taxes, and in fact they want a
(24:29):
lot more tax, more than likely, and they want to
control it and they do not want someone turning around
and changing things when they don't want it changed. Now,
it's very simple that if Labour want to be relevant again,
don't go talking to the people who are already voting
for you, because that's not going to do anything. And
the last thing, and time and time again, everyone who
brings up the capital gains tax and they say, oh no,
(24:52):
now it's right. Now we're all discussing it. It's not right.
It's never going to be right. We're not going to change.
We don't want to change, and you want to try,
you want to get empowered. Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Right, David, This is.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
You're the choir And now the real thing. Yeah, here's
the thing we talked earlier about COVID. How you need
to be able to change policy is the facts change.
If you are Prime Minister of New Zealand, you need
to be able to make decisions and the thought that
whoever is the next labor prime minister has to go
scurrying off to Michael Wood and the CTU economist and
(25:26):
go excuse me, lads, but in ladies, but is it
okay if I do this? So this unelected group of
five people prime ministers have to be able to govern.
If you don't like the job that the leaders doing,
role the leader, but let them lead. So I think
it's an answered.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Buy first a question how they can become relevant again?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, the problem for them is the phones off the hock.
That's the term we use in polymic what is it
called the phone that's off the hock? It means people
do not want to hear from you when you lose
an election. They don't want to hear you defend everything
you did that got your throne out, and Labour still
in that mode where they're defending everything they did rather
than going quiet talking to people think about what they
(26:10):
have to do differently, and if they think their problem
is that they didn't come up with enough new taxes,
rather than they left the country with a recession, with
high inflation, a structural deficit, a crumbling health system, they're
not going to be relevant to gain. So to be fair,
most oppositions to this, when National went into opposition, they
(26:33):
often did the same etc. You generally need a change
of leader and someone not associated with the previous government.
Chris Luxon was one, Jacinda was one. She'd never been
a minister. John Key was one. In fact, the last
elected prime minister who had been a previous minister was
Helen Clark.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Let me ask you, and I'm glad I was on
with you because I wanted your opinion on this. You said,
the next Labor leader. Okay, let's assume it's not Hipkins,
all right. Is it mcinalty or is it Edmunds?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Neither.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I think it's Carmel sep Alone, whoa Edmunds is She's
probably more valuable to them as finance minister to be.
She's very impressive. I've very so many people rave about
her and she could be a very very good labor
finance minister. When I say labor finance minister. Though if
(27:25):
I go back to Dicky, it's a but. Like when
Nicky won Hottest MP one year, her comment was being
the hotes MP is a bit like being skinniest kid
at that camp. Being the best labor finance minister the
same as being the best finance minister.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
In my book, well that was set baloney. Because I
saw her on that Island program that she was on
the Treasure Island of what it was, I thought she
was very good. In fact, I thought she was better
there than eything she's had done, and she.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Was a solid minister. She's Auckland based, which helped Karen.
His big thing was electability. They lost a seat by
six seven thousand votes. You got to be someone if
the leader has to be someone who's at But she
was the health minister in the last government. I don't
think people's memories are that short, so I think I
think it will probably be calm or not nearsy for
(28:13):
a long time. But at least is the one to
solidify the base to perhaps the younger generation.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
All right, before we go to hots and knots, which
we're going to go to very shortly, I want to
ask a like question of you both, because I brought
up that I went to Bunning's last week and to
do some shopping, and all I saw was a whole
lot of people with a whole lot of dogs. Are
we brant Walker starting to treat dogs like people.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And everywhere you go dogs are people?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
No, Look, let me explain.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Look, just shut me out.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Sorry, sorry, but you know you did say that we could.
We put our dog down six weeks ago, and it
was thirteen years old. It was like it was part
of the family. It's a really hard decision to do.
The dog was blind and deaf, took thirty pills a day.
It sounds like it's owner was Actually, yeah, although my
eyesight is probably okay, my hearings averange and ruts a day.
(29:09):
But you're quite right. I think I might send myself
to the to thed. But here's the thing. I was
going to say that that I love seeing the dogs
in there. I think it's fantastic. The only thing I
don't like seeing is people walking their dogs and letting
them crap on someone else's lawn, or leaving put them
in a bag and then leaving the bag on a
post or whatever it is. Take it with you. I
(29:30):
had someone walking the dog past my lawn last year
and every day there was dog do on the lawn.
I camp doubt trying to find who it was, because
it's just not on. You don't let did you find them?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
I knew you would. Come on, David, you have your
say before Grant keeps on walker speaking.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Also loved dogs, not quite as much as my four
now five year old. He turned five years say he
will go up and ask permission to pet every dog
as as you should. In Parliament they now allow dogs.
That's wonderful thing dogs in the corridors of Parliament. And
I eachally attempt to do a dog myself, mainly because
I went out for a walk with a friend with
(30:10):
his dog, and then we went to a cafe and
the dog was on the leash outside. A dozen women
came up hat the dog go over the and somebody
who's now separated. I think be able to go around
it out with your dog with the best possible.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Here is a great idea. That's the best reason for
getting a dog I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Well, that's that's the oldest one in the world. And
if you are single, walk down Ora into Bay with
a dog and you'll be all right. Might you might
walk home with someone else.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
That's the dog saying, don't pick me David the.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Friday face.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right, Hots and Knots of the week, David Pharaoh, give
us your hots and knots for the week.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Lo the hots and easy one. It's the tributes to Nicky.
It was just beautiful from just sing the helen every
side of the house. And that's was That's a lovely
reminder about.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
John Key was the key to me on those. I mean,
he told some great stories he did there.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Not is why I call corporate welfare. This week we've
read about us the tax par per one hundred and
sixty million dollars into our solar panel company that's just
gone bust, and we put fifty two million dollars into
a muscle farm. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I've got a policy I'd like to propose. Any minister
who puts tax par money in has to match it
zero point one percent got from their own pocket. So
if we put ten million dollars in, they have to
put ten thousand dollars in. That would make them think, Yo,
do we really need to do this? Because there's so
many companies out there that want to invest in green energy?
(31:48):
Why is it left to.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
The tax Although that's not working well at the moment.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
As a dude, right, give me grand he give me
your hots and notts.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Okay, the court for seventy one percent increase in public
transport fares, which is absolutely blooming and ludicrous, and say advertising, well,
that's not going to work. Read the room. If you
want us to pay more, get good, reliable, on time
modern service like Auckland and christ Church and you might
have some luck. And the other thing I wanted to
talk about was quickly the Johnsonville more Stride properties and
the other group which I and it is my more
I go there all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
What do you go there for? There's nothing in the
damn I've got.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
There's a nice coffee in there.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You just walk around there and say this is my shops.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Good.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
But it should be they should be told use or lose.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
You should know no way. They should control ninety percent
of that entire area. The hot that this year will
be over, very very soon, and I can't wait because
my life this year has been like a country song,
which is the dog died, my mom died, and I've
been sick, So bring it on and I can't wait
for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Grant, great to see you again. We haven't seen each
other for a while, but it's really lovely, a long
time lovely to see you, David. Always a pleas to
have you in the studio and all that information. Thank
you both so much of a great weekend and we'll
catch you again on Friday, facebooks sometime.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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