David Seymour's Treaty Principles Bill is dead and buried - but was it worth having the conversation as a country?
Also, former Labour leader Andrew Little says he is considering running to be Wellington's next mayor. Would he be right for the job?
And TVNZ has confirmed production of a four-episode New Zealand version of The Chase. Who should host it?
To answer those questions, Integrity Institute director Dr Bryce Edwards and broadcaster Mark Sainsbury joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Face Off with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental
experience for all. Visit Quovi dot code on its head.
Thursday Doesn't started.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Care Friday face Off.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Joining us for Friday Face Off This week is legitly broadcast.
The Mark sainsbe I don't like the way they say
legendary broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And it sounds prefer victory. It sounds like you're about
to die it does.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It sounds very old.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And of course Bryce Edwards now Bryce has kind of
got his new Integrity Institute founder. I want you to
give me thirty seconds on what is it called Integrity Institute?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Yeah, So I've been an academic for the last couple
of decades. I'm still part time at the Victoria University
of Wellington, but as of this year, I'm now the
director of the Integrity Institute. We're a new research and
advocacy body focused on i know, wealthy vested interests, et cetera,
and the political process. So we're a.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Watchdog, okay, a new watchdog, A new watchdog.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
On government these things, yep, absolutely very much.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
On the political process.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So the big corporates aren't lining up the fund it then.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Afraid not.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Very nice, very nice classes.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Oh thank you. We're not live streamed here with no video.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But that's next year, that's next funancial year.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Okay, but yes, new glasses. That's my hot for the week.
Probably it's my hot for the week. Very thanks.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Right, let's start with David Seymour's Treaties bill. It's dead gone,
failed second reading last night.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Bryce, I'm going to start with you.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
How much damage is this whole exercise done to us
as a country?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Look, I think it's probably been positive for the country.
I think it's you know, regardless of what you think
of the particular bill, this has been a conversation that's
been needed the gist of it, and so we have
had people talking about it, debating it, and so I
think there's all sorts of problems with David Seymour's bill,
but no, we can't suppress these debates. It's broadly tapping
(02:39):
into big issues about race relations, constitutional issues, and if
you don't discuss these things, you end up having an explosion,
you know, things just breaking out from under. So no,
I think it's been very useful for the health of democracy.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Really. That surprises me. Mark. Do you reckoon this is
a waste of time or do you agree with Bryce?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, I'm going to have a sort of a bet
each way on this one. I actually do agree to
a certain agree with you Bryce that, Yeah, there's a
conversation need to have in that Hiccoy. It brought out
so many people and got people involved who probably would
never have been involved in issues like that before.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But the whole po was a waste of all races too.
To be fair on the h it was.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I mean, I'm down. I went on down to the
Hiccou went down to Parliament that day and it was
amazing looking at the people who standing there. It was
the day before they got rid of the gang patches
and it was so you're standing there, it was like
an historic moment standing around there, surrounded by various king
Cobras and Mungrol and various other people. But it brought
this broad spectrum of people. But politically the thing was
(03:40):
just such an absolute mess. Because yes, it's good to
have those discussions and we should be able to discuss anything,
but it just created such a climate. It was sort
of the hostility and then you had you know, Luxon
in the middle of it, sort of saying, oh, well,
you know this is you know, we didn't never wanted it,
but they got hammered for doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It wasn't it was more than a discussion. It was
a bill, so it wasn't just discussing.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
It was so but it's always government and that bring
out you know, agreement and disagreement and counterpoints, and that's
good for that. So yes, it has been ugly at times,
and I think we've learned to New Zealand that we're
not particularly good at some of these debates. But maybe
we'll be better next time. And you know, this bill
rarely probably isn't going away. It will resurface in different forms.
(04:25):
And you know, let's not forget that there's a lot
of people that did support it. A lot of the
public did support it, and so the participation at the
select committees, the Hecoy I just think was wonderful to
have people debating, disagreeing. We don't do that well enough
in New Zealand. We're a bit too English, I would say.
We don't like to talk about sex, politics and religion
at the dining table, but you need to.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Right and of course this thing, would it happened? I mean,
Luxon was saying, look, we don't support the bill, this
is part of the agreement. We're going to let it
go through. David Seymour, when he was asked directly was
this bottom line in the coalition agreement? Said no, we
didn't make this a b.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I think he said that after the point though, yeah,
I know, so it's pretty easy to say that after
well is he lying yeah. I'm not accusing him for lyne,
but I say that he made that comment after you know,
he didn't say, look, I would like this to happen,
and you know did it?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
And you're thinking, because if they believe in it so
strongly that they'd have no problem of fronting up and saying, well, yeah,
we made this as a as a tenant of the
coalition agreement because we believe in it. But he said no,
and that just came back to the raised more questions
about Christopher Luxon's political judgment, because if they it, it was
just a price of the coalition. And then we had
the dirt and knew they're going to get a whole
(05:40):
lot of flat but didn't support it. What was the point,
and especially what was the point?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
That's my point.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
If it wasn't the bottom line, that's my point.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Why do we waste our time, our energy, our money?
I mean, Bryce, you're four it.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Oh Look, I disagree that it was a large amount
of money or wasted time. I mean I certainly haven't
paid that much attention to it because I found it
got quite boring after a while. So I'm not all
gunn home in terms of this debate. I got I
thought it became pretty tired. But the money element is
pretty man a skill. It's what you have with democracy.
(06:11):
You know, when a bill's into into parliament, you've got
to have the procedures. It's pretty man a skill. No,
I think we're still the better for having that debate.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Really, Okay, Mark, you want to add anything, do you? No?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Look, I think yeah, I mean we shouldn't be frightened
of having a debate on these issues.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well let's let's be let's be real.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
We're going to have debates over the treaty long after
all of us are on this earth. I mean, it's
going to be debates every couple of years. It's going
to get bigger and stronger. But we're going to have debates.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And by the sounds of David Seymour, he wants instead
of he's going to do a reboot for the general election.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Yeah, he's already saying.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, he's saying that, he's what he's saying. To be
up front.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
What he said yesterday was that he's going to make
it a part of his election, isn't it. So he
thinks he's going to get extra votes out of it.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, and it's it's a core issue for a lot
of New Zealanders. So you know, so why not?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Something that really upset me during the week as we
dissect the week on Friday, Face Office, It's been eighteen
months since Baby rou died after suffering a blunt force
trauma to his head in low heartened No charges have
been laid and the three people that are in the
house at the time had you know, they haven't said anything.
(07:27):
They've taken the code of silence, really, haven't they. Bryce
is the time that we looked at whether witnesses to
things like child murders they should have the right to silence.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Are we looking at that?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I think we already are, and politicians are grappling with
us all over the world, And in New Zealand, the
last government had to decide on whether to get rid
of that right of silence. They decided not to. And
there's always pressure to do reforms and it's a good
debate to have, but there are problems with getting rid
(08:01):
of the right to silence. I think it is a
kind of course of all liberty in our justice system
that is worth worth preserving, and trying to implement abolishing
of it I think would be problematic. I'm just not
sure how it would work that you are forced to
say something you're not willing to say. I mean, it's
I'm not sure it's something to proceed with very carefully
(08:25):
if you're going to do that.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And thing, Nick, here's the thing, and you can understand
it because I watch that, you get upset, you get angry,
all those just it is a shocking situation. And people
are in the house, no one else, police saying no
one else involved.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
No one else went into the house.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
No one is in the house. One of them went
back and cleaned up afterwards, and they discovered that. But
they didn't have enough to sort of charge it has.
It brought back memories of the Carhoe Twins for me,
and that whole sort of same issue. But that right
to silence, which is a fundamental tenet of our legal system.
But do you know the only thing that doesn't have
a right to silence in this country the Serious Fraud Office.
(09:02):
You know, so, yes, you have a right to silence.
If you've suspected of murdering a kid or doing something
like that, you don't have a right to silence of
this if the Serious Fraud Office comes knocking on your door.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I find that I find that disbelieving.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
It is it is, it is. You cannot refuse to
discuss things with the Serious Fraud Office.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can't take the Fifth Amendment with them, but you can.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But you can, but you can if yous aspective of
killing it.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Look, that makes it pretty a strong point, doesn't it.
I wasn't aware of that, But you are right. And
I think we're all disgusted by what's going on here.
But I just think we have to be careful about
kind of knee jerk reactions of reforming things without thinking
about what the consequences of how these things would work,
and in other countries they also haven't quite managed to
(09:47):
fix this.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think it's time the time we did something about it.
Whether it's changing, whether we change the law or not,
I don't I'm not committed to either. But I just
can't get it that we've got this eighty months later
and three people in the house. No one's been charged,
no one can be questioned anymore because they don't want
to say anything.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
They don't have to say anything. That to me is
just not right.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
And the saying is still doing forensics.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So the saying they found some more that year, the
latter statement came out that they found some more evidence
and are doing forensics. So Friday face off with Bryce Doctor,
Bryce Edwards, and Mark Sainsbury Andrew Little. There's been talk
more than talk. There's been lots of talk over the
past few days. Ethan Minera, our young reporter, shouldn't say
(10:34):
young reporter, Our excellent reporter went fishing for a story
and got a story. Mark Sainsley, what are your thoughts?
What did you What were your thoughts when you first
heard it?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah? Look I thought, yeah, I mean he's an extremely
competent person. Andrew Little, you know, and he has a
he's quite an interesting politician. I did something some years ago,
a forum down here on the Terrace on prison reform,
and he was the Justice minister there, and he turned
up and he said, look, the big problem with politics
is that Evan's got an agendas and he've been looking
(11:05):
at the next election and knowing what to do. Anything
you don't see immediate results, I don't care. I believe
that this needs to happen and I'm going to do
it whether people like it or not. He then got
put into the health portfolio and all that to sappeared
out the window. But he's quite a principled person. Angry
Andy used to call him aunt the time, didn't They
get a bit grumpy at times? But look on certainly
(11:26):
if you look at at his record, his ability, he
can negotiate with government, all those sort of things. You know,
he's not the most sort of people person. I mean,
that's why he's sort of hestad aside for East, aside
for just Cinda. But yeah, but extremely competent, great background,
you know.
Speaker 5 (11:43):
Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. He really is
the anti Tory candidate, and by that I don't mean
left wing against the conservatives. He's the opposite of Torri
fart out and you know, she was always going to
have a hard task getting re elected, I believe, but
now her chances are pretty pretty zlch. I think Andrew
Little is standing. It's not just rumors. You don't put
(12:04):
those things.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Out in lesson and you've denied him pretty yah.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Yeah, it's a way of creating a story. He's a
master at that. So he is running.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He will win it down a solid as I think.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
So yeah, yeah, right, you don't let something like that
slip out. You don't be because you're you're open your door.
You either shut it straight away or your whatever. So
he's let it out there, which means it's almost.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
And I just think he's from casting Central for this race.
He's someone that is not heavily associated with kind of
what some people might see the current mayor as being
from a sort of fringe progressive sort of background. He's
seen as kind of a centrist.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Though, I mean, come on, let's cut to the chase
on this one. You say he's a centrist, right, his
background is heavily into unions, right, that's not centrist in
my world.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Well, I think in terms of the culture wars in particular,
which is what Tory Farno has sort of made her name,
and now it's all about race, gender, sexuality, Palestinian causes
things like that. On those issues, he is quite centrist.
He doesn't really associate himself with them. He's more about
(13:22):
let's fix things. Let's focus on what the you know,
the general public, the ordinary person is interested in. And
I think being a unionist fits in with that quite well.
Of his background, he was of course a student politician
as well.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But would he walk into that office and taking and
look around, so, gosh, we've got too many staff here.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I need to cut five hundred staff. Is he that guy, Mike?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Would he cut five hundred staffer?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Look? I think, Look, he's a union guy. Of course
he's not going yeah, but hang.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
On, he's also he's also an experienced politician. He's experienced
it sort in terms of organizations. Yes, he's not going
to just be stuck on the ideology of it, whatever
things think. I think he's a sort of person of
things need to be done. He's willing to do it.
What is interesting with this is there's been such an
end the politics thing around the whole election, which is
sort of somewhat, somewhat, sort of odd in many ways,
(14:12):
but just wonder whether that would be the only negative
in terms of he represents a party and there seems
a real feeling around it at the moment people are
sort of sick of party politics sort of dominating the
disrupting the council.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I doubt he would run as a labor candidate. I
presume he will run as an independent.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I think he'll be run.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And he'll separate himself and he'll make lots of centrist
sort of sounding campaign, no promises and statements and things,
and he'll be someone that, yeah, he will well, he
will position himself as a fix it man, someone who
will straighten out the Wellington City Council, not all this
touchy feely stuff. You know, he will go for you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Let's could he be a Wayne Brown.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yeah, I think that's yeah. I think he will be
pretty much the Wellington Wayne Brown. That's how he'll position himself.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That should excite everyone, shouldn't it.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Well, Wayne Brown is not that exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, I mean well, I mean the way that the
Auckland is progressing at the moment's exciting compared to Wellington.
I mean they get things done up there.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
So I remember talking to one of the posters that
was working for Wayne Brown after his campaign and they said,
look for Wayne Brown's campaign, we didn't try and make
him likable, we didn't try and make him colorful, we
didn't try and make him anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
We positioned him that he would get things done and
that he was a fix it man. And that's really
resonated with the Auckland voters. And I think the same
thing will be with Andrew Little. Just let's get things fixed.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Okay, I'm going to ask you both if the election
was tomorrow Saturday, Mark Sainsbury, who will win it?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right now? Putting Andrew Little in there, Little.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
I think it would be Little. But of course he
hasn't had much time to campaign, so there's you know,
some current incumbents in the race already that couldn't be
quite ruled out.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And he also has the advantage of name recognition, which
is a huge it's a massive factor in local body elections.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Are we underestimating And I'm just asking you both this
the power of the right wing in ray Chung, because
I mean, I'm only seeing secondhand, but I'm seeing that
there's a bit of poll in going on, and right
now Ray Chung's leading the pole.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, but it's still I mean that was and no
disrespect to Ray, but that was sort of you know,
there were there were a few other sort of real contenders,
were there. I mean, if you look at it, who's
up for it? You know, well, it's probably no surprise
you people might But this changes everything.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
I think it is the game changer and we'll see.
I mean, Ray Hung might be able to argue that
Little is someone that's trying to come in with no
background in local body politics and be a bit of
a carpetbacker, and that's what we had last time. Would
be the argument that Tory Farner came in pretending that
she knew how to do everything but had no experience
(17:03):
in local government politics and has been therefore a bit
of a mess. Could say the same about that.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Would be a long boat. No political experience would be
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes, but he doesn't know anything about local government is
probably the argument.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That I think he probably does. But yeah, absolutely, I
think he probably has.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think, you know, I don't think we ever want
to underestimate Andrew Little's intelligence. I think that would do
that all at our peril. I for one thing, it's
you know, an exciting move that if he is going
to stand.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
But I'll just quickly point out that although you might
find the right, whether it's voters on the right or
institutions of the right in Wellington backing rach Hung, at
the moment, I think they will find Andrew Little to
be an adequate, satisfactory candidate. He won't be a left
wing looney. He will be a centrist candidate that the
that the right can be happy with.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And you know what, I haven't spoken to a single person,
not a single person that has actually not said exactly
what you said. You know, at least he's got intelligence.
Least he's smart. He'll get things done, he'll do all
those things. No one is saying, oh he's a bit left.
So Friday face off with doctor Bryce Edwards and Mark Sainsbury.
Let's talk Winston Peters. For let's lighten it up a
(18:19):
little bit and talk Winston Peters. Mark Sainsbury, I don't
know whether you're you or not, but Winston turns as
it's his birthday today. Now, if anyone's got a great
Winston story to tell, I'm not downgrading your story bros.
But Mark Sainsbury would have spent many a long late
night with Winston Peter.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's been down at the Green Parrot, and of course
back in those days were where even with smoking, you know,
and of course he was a great butt. It was Winston.
He sort of claims he's given up. I died. I
honestly don't know. But we always used at We had
a saying in politics that if Winston Peters didn't exist,
you'd have to invent him.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
He he's been such a it's mind boggling when you
just look back at his career and both sides and
he's one side there and the next side he's switched over.
He's an incredible political survivor. And boy oh boy, he
try arguing with him, you know. That's in Sainsbury. I'll
give you the facts. And the one thing about Winston
was you could have professionally, you guld have a real
(19:16):
stand up blue over something. You have a go at
you but.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Would if you goes because you're not the guy.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
You're not a confrontation no no, but but you don't
have to be confrontational to upset Winston. You might just
say something that he doesn't sort of agree with all
the things that you're putting it the wrong way. But
he could have a real go at you in that context,
you know, and then you could be outside, you know,
down the side of the building, having a fag and
carrying on with whatever. You know. As I said, times
of times have changed a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
How does he keep doing what he's doing? I mean,
he looks I said earlier on the show. He looks immaculate.
He looked, you know. I mean, he got the body
in the mind of a fifty eight sixty year old.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
He puts it down. The diet, he had this big
change so many many years ago and sort of was
cut back on carbs and a lot of fish and
things so that he actually he actually does take care
of himself and he's got jan his partner is sort
of is really good for him. But yeah, eighty years
old and he's you just think you compare him to Biden.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Wow, you know, look, I think it's worth paying tribute
to his age. Whatever you think of his politics, the
fact that he's there as Deputy Prime Minister for a
wee bit longer, not much longer, at the age of
eighty is just an incredible personal triumph and I think
it's something we need more of in New Zealand politics.
To be honest, we used to have in New Zealand
(20:34):
a lot of older politicians, people in their sixties, seventies
and eighties, and New Zealand, along with the rest of
the world, has kind of shifted to this cult of
youth and so our average age of our parliamentarian has
dropped quite considerably and now you have a lot more
people coming in in their twenties thirties, rarely as career politicians,
(20:55):
if you like. I think it's a shame that the
diversity is being lost. We don't have those older politicians anymore.
It's yeah, it's we're having Is it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That we're just Is it just that you've got older
and when you look at them, you know it's not.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
I'm talking about the stats here, Okay, the actual stats
show that Winston Peters is the absolute aberration. You don't
have people people generally retire from politics in their sixties now.
It didn't used to be that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Because it's a lot tougher world mark.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I mean, you know, let's be honest with with all
the you know, social media and attention, it's a tougher job.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
The scrutiny that you're I mean, once upon a time
you got elected as an MP, it was sort of
it was almost like a job for life, you know,
if you just sort of, you know, played everything sort
of the right way. Now you know your past, whatever
you did. I mean, just look at the events of
the last couple of weeks. You know, everything comes back
to haunt you and and Winston. And because he first
he said haneure, I think he way back he did
(21:57):
an electoral recount and then he was out of parliament,
then back and again. In many ways, you could look
at it in his totality, he's almost like a career politician,
but you don't actually think of him as like a
career politician.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well you've got to, because that's what he is.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, I know, and he'd he'd been a lawyer beforehand,
but he's still he just doesn't have that same sort
of reek in some in some sort of ways, however,
he's done it and he just has some incredible ability
to reinvent himself exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
He surprises us. And he has had different identities over
the decades.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
So yeah, can I tell quickly while I've got on
where we're talking politicians. And I'm sorry to interrupt you there, Bryce,
but I just want to quickly ask you, there's many
of you report out about the suffering that the female
politicians are being put under it through social media and
abuse and you know, threatened with rape and all that stuff. Rice,
what's wrong with our society when we can't, you know,
(22:51):
we have to resort to horrible actions like this.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
This is an important topic and I think we do
have trouble in New Zealand with the way we treat politicians,
especially female politicians. There's misogyny, there's a polar going on
out there, there's a lack of civility and all of that,
and we've got to take these things very seriously, and
(23:15):
especially in terms of any threats of violence to politicians
or anyone in fact, and we don't want to go
down that route that we're seeing a bit in other countries.
On the other hand, you've got to I think that
report that came out probably needs a bit more critique.
It had a very small sample size, it didn't compare
it to male politicians. So if you want to know,
you know, how a female politicians are getting at worse,
(23:37):
which I think they are it compared to male you
still have to sort of do a proper comparison, and
I'm not sure that was there, And so I do
wonder whether we need a more nuanced debate on the sort.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Of the comparison.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, the threats, I think it's happening to all politicians
and all a lot of public figures and things.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Mark, can I just go to you on this one,
because I mean, you've got history on your side. Was
it like this twenty years ago? Did the female politicians,
you know, in your heyday, did they still cop it
as much as as what they're doing now?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Did you get much talk.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Probably said well, don't forget in social media? Wasn't didn't
have the same thing. I wonder too whether this is
reflective of women in any area, you know, the sort
of stuff that they're getting, the misogyny and the sexism.
You know, you take any industry you might find similar
similar things. I mean, I remember James Shaw, remember he
got attacked on the street. I mean, it goes against
(24:34):
politicians are there to serve us and it should be protected.
It's a vital part of the whole of the whole system.
But yeah, this and I can remember it at the
time when Jacinda R durn was Prime Ministers. I was
at a function of talking to Grant Robinson, whom saying, oh,
the DPS have told him not to leave the house
for four days. What this is the Prime Minister of you?
Because that hold the misogyny and the hate that sort
(24:55):
of managed to find a focus with her. So I
think the female politicians certly probably get it worse. But
I think women in all sectors of society are facing
this and you get that that's the same degrees of
misogyny and sexism.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I think. I think you're absolutely right. You're listening to
Friday Face Off.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
When we have Mark Sainsbury and Bryce Edwards and doctor
Bryce Edwards in the studio with us, we do a
brap of the week. If you never listened to Face Off,
of course you've listened to Face Off before we do
a rap of the stuff we've talked about and one
of the stories that went a bit crazy, and I
can see that one of the other our sister stations
is doing a story on it right now and the
text machine is going lighting up the Chase. Television and
(25:33):
New Zealand are producing four episodes of a New Zealand
version of the Chase. It's going to be held in Australia.
You've got to pay for your own trip over. You've
got to pay for your own accommodation. If you want
to compete in it, they can call.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
It the Dodge then Dodge. Wow. TVNS is not even
paying up for an airfare. That's pretty bad, that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It's a costing Mark Mark.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You're married to television, Yea, Zellen. You know you've had
a couple of divorces, but you're married to them. You're
in bed with them. Who's going to host it for
a start, Well, I'd like it to be me. I'd
love to do that show. I watched The Chaser. I
love the Chase. It's a great show.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, it's because of Brad, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Brad? He's such looking. That guy is just amazing. But
you watch it's interesting watching red So do them all
shoot the whole light in one big block?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You know how many would they do in a day?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I think it was something like seven. I think they
might have got through in a day. It just it
just fairies. I know, no, wouldn't be they would get
through seven. But there was I remember reading something about this,
and you can see sometimes all of them Brad gets
really grumpy, so it's obviously being the end of a
long shooting session. He gets a bit short with some
of them. You know another Edwards, he's already quite warm,
engaging host.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I mean, that's that's he's amazing. That's that's the thing
about him.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So come on, apart from you, and I think you
your name when we did it yesterday on the show,
all the day before in the show, your name did
pop up a couple of times, so well that was me.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So you named it pop up.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I mean, I can tell you that the Herald has
done a poll, and only because I was listening to
to Mike this morning.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And Mike was he was putting him east and he
wants to have another crack.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Well, he was leading the pole. He wouldn't have done
the story if he wasn't number one on the pole.
You can guarantee that if he was number two or
number three, we wouldn't have heard about it this morning.
But he was number one on the pole. So who's
who's your person? Apart from yourself?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Well, I can't see past myself be perfectly, to be
perfectly honest. It's all about being honest when you come
on here with you next.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
There's also there's also ideas of grandeur on when you
come on with the show.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You can't push that too.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
So, I mean, the problem is it seems to be
a tendency, especially with TV and Z, you get one
presenter and then they do everything. I mean Jerry Wells,
who's a good mate of mine, I think is a
fantastic presenter, but he does task last. He does seven sharp,
you know, like it sort of once once you get going.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I think he's a bit cold for the show. I
think he's a bit cold for the chase.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't think he's got the empathy.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I mean the Jason Gunn.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
You know what, Jason Gunn can't be serious about anything.
That's Jason Gunn's fault in my part. Come on, Bryce,
you give me, I'll come back.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Oh look, I think Jeremy well is the no brainer.
I think he can be warm, he can be funny.
I think it will be him probably Paul Henry, Yeah,
he could do it as well, actually, but I don't
think he wants it anymore. He's he's basically retired and
only comes in for really things he'd love to do.
(28:24):
I'm not sure he'd love to do that off the
pension exactly. If it was my choice, it would be
Guy Williams. He's funny.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Oh my god, this crowd goes silent. Yeah, he used
to play for the Saints. I know him reasonably well.
I don't think he'd be the right guy. He's got
some of the qualities. He's bright enough, and.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Mike Hosking would be the right guy either. He's got
his talents, his own strengths, but not for and how.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Serious about this thing they're doing four reps? I mean,
And the reason that's happening is that they did exactly
the same thing with Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
The Ausies have already built the set and got all
the infrastructure in place, and so when they did that show,
they'd fly all the contestants and Mike Hosking over and
they'd used a downtime on the set and it was
a cheap way to sort of do it this thoughbviously,
just tipping their dough dough their toe in the water
(29:11):
to see where.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
They're going to sit enough.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
So they'll see how this goes and and sort of
work from that as to whether they you know, whether
they invest, but you've got to sort of build them,
you know, you've got to build the set and you
do the whole thing there, and there's the licensing.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I mean, I've seen the Australian one and I don't
like it. God, Australia.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Look, the proposal should be that we do it here
in Wellington and we do it for Australia and we
bring over a few Australians into a trans tantment and chase.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
See the hardest thing it's the it's it's the chases themselves.
It's getting was that the Aussie one used sort of
local AUSSI Aussie chases and it was just wasn't the same.
And they almost try and copy, don't they the sort
of the same sort of character types as.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Who would they do?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It? Is the chasers, I mean would have to find
I mean, you know, find four or three I don't
know they made and they.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Didn't recognize any of them. Didn't know when I watched it,
and it's just yeah, it's just it's like the Aussies
did top Gear and that was the same thing. It
was just dreadful.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
So Mark Sainsbury's our vote well into the mornings, will
vote to be the host, and don't tell Mike Costking that.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
We did that.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Email TV ands it immediately.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Please, otherwise I'd lose my gold pretty quickly. Mike's Mike's
got a bit of influence on this company, so I
don't want to not say him.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I I'd say you'd be second choice to Mike's. Good
on you, Mike Costing, so right, hots and that's Mark Sainsbury,
come on, can be with your hot to not?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Okay, I'll stay up with a knot and that's Eunich.
You're mine not hot. Because when I heard there was
again suddenly, oh Nick Mills might be standing for me,
I thought, yes, our problem is sold. You listened to
here this morning and you you're sort of hosing that
down quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So that was my Can I just say on that quickly?
And I'm not hosing it down because Andrew Little, because
all my news room comrades.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Have said, well, he's not.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
He's pulled his name out because he's got opposition. I
would love if I was going to go for it.
I'd love to go against Andrew Little. Not scare me
at all.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
You're not hot, good it's on. You're HoTT.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
I only want your job, that's all. Hey, look but
my het. I'm going to a shout out to the guys.
There's two blokes he turned up from animal control, the
one in city council that you've heard about my travails
or the whippet. Yesterday, these two guys turned up to
the door and said you lost the dog. I said,
I know, I don't think so. And then discover it's
not there. I'd found it, brought it back. They were saying,
(31:30):
here's a fine, we're gonna do this. They took the
trouble to track me down, turned up and got the
dog back to us. And I thought, good on you,
that's what we want to see it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Because Mark says favourus of was anyone ouse old bloody.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Then I was coming on with you the next day.
That was probably fifty three year old coming into the door.
They would have gone, come on, Bryce, give me your
hots and knots.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
Not is the resignation of David Parker, Labor MP. He's
announced he's going. Whatever you think of his politics, he
added real heft to the Labor Party and I think
they actually need that heft at the moment. So I'm
sort of worried for any political party that loses the
kind of intellectual powerhouse.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I agree with you, complee.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
And my hot is the announcement that Lord is releasing
her new album today. Yeah, and she dropped fifteen seconds
of it and it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I love Lord. My hot, I've got a hot today.
Your glasses I am thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Yeah, cheers.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
It's like a psychadelic herohotter.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Not hot.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
That was my not hot, wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
I have it not hot. I do not have it
not hot. I'm missed a positive today. Thank you my
guest Mark Sainsbury and Bryce Edwards. Doctor Bryce Edwards, thanks
for coming in on the show. I know it takes
time out of you both very busy schedules, but we
appreciate and Wellington people appreciate having people's opinion.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's a good build up to the Hurricanes win.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
It is a good build up for the Hurricanes win.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Bryce and who are here with Mark, Thank you very much.
I've had I should have stopped by now.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks. It'd be Wellington from ninety
eight in weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday Face Off with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental
experience for all. Visit Quovi dot code on its head.
Thursday Doesn't started.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Care Friday face Off.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Joining us for Friday Face Off This week is legitly broadcast.
The Mark sainsbe I don't like the way they say
legendary broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And it sounds prefer victory. It sounds like you're about
to die it does.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It sounds very old.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
And of course Bryce Edwards now Bryce has kind of
got his new Integrity Institute founder. I want you to
give me thirty seconds on what is it called Integrity Institute?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Yeah, So I've been an academic for the last couple
of decades. I'm still part time at the Victoria University
of Wellington, but as of this year, I'm now the
director of the Integrity Institute. We're a new research and
advocacy body focused on i know, wealthy vested interests, et cetera,
and the political process. So we're a.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Watchdog, okay, a new watchdog, A new watchdog.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
On government these things, yep, absolutely very much.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
On the political process.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So the big corporates aren't lining up the fund it then.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Afraid not.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Very nice, very nice classes.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Oh thank you. We're not live streamed here with no video.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But that's next year, that's next funancial year.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Okay, but yes, new glasses. That's my hot for the week.
Probably it's my hot for the week. Very thanks.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Right, let's start with David Seymour's Treaties bill. It's dead gone,
failed second reading last night.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Bryce, I'm going to start with you.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
How much damage is this whole exercise done to us
as a country?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Look, I think it's probably been positive for the country.
I think it's you know, regardless of what you think
of the particular bill, this has been a conversation that's
been needed the gist of it, and so we have
had people talking about it, debating it, and so I
think there's all sorts of problems with David Seymour's bill,
but no, we can't suppress these debates. It's broadly tapping
(02:39):
into big issues about race relations, constitutional issues, and if
you don't discuss these things, you end up having an explosion,
you know, things just breaking out from under. So no,
I think it's been very useful for the health of democracy.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Really. That surprises me. Mark. Do you reckoon this is
a waste of time or do you agree with Bryce?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, I'm going to have a sort of a bet
each way on this one. I actually do agree to
a certain agree with you Bryce that, Yeah, there's a
conversation need to have in that Hiccoy. It brought out
so many people and got people involved who probably would
never have been involved in issues like that before.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But the whole po was a waste of all races too.
To be fair on the h it was.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I mean, I'm down. I went on down to the
Hiccou went down to Parliament that day and it was
amazing looking at the people who standing there. It was
the day before they got rid of the gang patches
and it was so you're standing there, it was like
an historic moment standing around there, surrounded by various king
Cobras and Mungrol and various other people. But it brought
this broad spectrum of people. But politically the thing was
(03:40):
just such an absolute mess. Because yes, it's good to
have those discussions and we should be able to discuss anything,
but it just created such a climate. It was sort
of the hostility and then you had you know, Luxon
in the middle of it, sort of saying, oh, well,
you know this is you know, we didn't never wanted it,
but they got hammered for doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It wasn't it was more than a discussion. It was
a bill, so it wasn't just discussing.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
It was so but it's always government and that bring
out you know, agreement and disagreement and counterpoints, and that's
good for that. So yes, it has been ugly at times,
and I think we've learned to New Zealand that we're
not particularly good at some of these debates. But maybe
we'll be better next time. And you know, this bill
rarely probably isn't going away. It will resurface in different forms.
(04:25):
And you know, let's not forget that there's a lot
of people that did support it. A lot of the
public did support it, and so the participation at the
select committees, the Hecoy I just think was wonderful to
have people debating, disagreeing. We don't do that well enough
in New Zealand. We're a bit too English, I would say.
We don't like to talk about sex, politics and religion
at the dining table, but you need to.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Right and of course this thing, would it happened? I mean,
Luxon was saying, look, we don't support the bill, this
is part of the agreement. We're going to let it
go through. David Seymour, when he was asked directly was
this bottom line in the coalition agreement? Said no, we
didn't make this a b.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I think he said that after the point though, yeah,
I know, so it's pretty easy to say that after
well is he lying yeah. I'm not accusing him for lyne,
but I say that he made that comment after you know,
he didn't say, look, I would like this to happen,
and you know did it?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
And you're thinking, because if they believe in it so
strongly that they'd have no problem of fronting up and saying, well, yeah,
we made this as a as a tenant of the
coalition agreement because we believe in it. But he said no,
and that just came back to the raised more questions
about Christopher Luxon's political judgment, because if they it, it was
just a price of the coalition. And then we had
the dirt and knew they're going to get a whole
(05:40):
lot of flat but didn't support it. What was the point,
and especially what was the point?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
That's my point.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
If it wasn't the bottom line, that's my point.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Why do we waste our time, our energy, our money?
I mean, Bryce, you're four it.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Oh Look, I disagree that it was a large amount
of money or wasted time. I mean I certainly haven't
paid that much attention to it because I found it
got quite boring after a while. So I'm not all
gunn home in terms of this debate. I got I
thought it became pretty tired. But the money element is
pretty man a skill. It's what you have with democracy.
(06:11):
You know, when a bill's into into parliament, you've got
to have the procedures. It's pretty man a skill. No,
I think we're still the better for having that debate.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Really, Okay, Mark, you want to add anything, do you? No?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
No?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Look, I think yeah, I mean we shouldn't be frightened
of having a debate on these issues.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well let's let's be let's be real.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
We're going to have debates over the treaty long after
all of us are on this earth. I mean, it's
going to be debates every couple of years. It's going
to get bigger and stronger. But we're going to have debates.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And by the sounds of David Seymour, he wants instead
of he's going to do a reboot for the general election.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Yeah, he's already saying.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, he's saying that, he's what he's saying. To be
up front.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
What he said yesterday was that he's going to make
it a part of his election, isn't it. So he
thinks he's going to get extra votes out of it.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yeah, and it's it's a core issue for a lot
of New Zealanders. So you know, so why not?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Something that really upset me during the week as we
dissect the week on Friday, Face Office, It's been eighteen
months since Baby rou died after suffering a blunt force
trauma to his head in low heartened No charges have
been laid and the three people that are in the
house at the time had you know, they haven't said anything.
(07:27):
They've taken the code of silence, really, haven't they. Bryce
is the time that we looked at whether witnesses to
things like child murders they should have the right to silence.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Are we looking at that?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
I think we already are, and politicians are grappling with
us all over the world, And in New Zealand, the
last government had to decide on whether to get rid
of that right of silence. They decided not to. And
there's always pressure to do reforms and it's a good
debate to have, but there are problems with getting rid
(08:01):
of the right to silence. I think it is a
kind of course of all liberty in our justice system
that is worth worth preserving, and trying to implement abolishing
of it I think would be problematic. I'm just not
sure how it would work that you are forced to
say something you're not willing to say. I mean, it's
I'm not sure it's something to proceed with very carefully
(08:25):
if you're going to do that.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
And thing, Nick, here's the thing, and you can understand
it because I watch that, you get upset, you get angry,
all those just it is a shocking situation. And people
are in the house, no one else, police saying no
one else involved.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
No one else went into the house.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
No one is in the house. One of them went
back and cleaned up afterwards, and they discovered that. But
they didn't have enough to sort of charge it has.
It brought back memories of the Carhoe Twins for me,
and that whole sort of same issue. But that right
to silence, which is a fundamental tenet of our legal system.
But do you know the only thing that doesn't have
a right to silence in this country the Serious Fraud Office.
(09:02):
You know, so, yes, you have a right to silence.
If you've suspected of murdering a kid or doing something
like that, you don't have a right to silence of
this if the Serious Fraud Office comes knocking on your door.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I find that I find that disbelieving.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
It is it is, it is. You cannot refuse to
discuss things with the Serious Fraud Office.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can't take the Fifth Amendment with them, but you can.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But you can, but you can if yous aspective of
killing it.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Look, that makes it pretty a strong point, doesn't it.
I wasn't aware of that, But you are right. And
I think we're all disgusted by what's going on here.
But I just think we have to be careful about
kind of knee jerk reactions of reforming things without thinking
about what the consequences of how these things would work,
and in other countries they also haven't quite managed to
(09:47):
fix this.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think it's time the time we did something about it.
Whether it's changing, whether we change the law or not,
I don't I'm not committed to either. But I just
can't get it that we've got this eighty months later
and three people in the house. No one's been charged,
no one can be questioned anymore because they don't want
to say anything.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
They don't have to say anything. That to me is
just not right.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
And the saying is still doing forensics.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So the saying they found some more that year, the
latter statement came out that they found some more evidence
and are doing forensics. So Friday face off with Bryce Doctor,
Bryce Edwards, and Mark Sainsbury Andrew Little. There's been talk
more than talk. There's been lots of talk over the
past few days. Ethan Minera, our young reporter, shouldn't say
(10:34):
young reporter, Our excellent reporter went fishing for a story
and got a story. Mark Sainsley, what are your thoughts?
What did you What were your thoughts when you first
heard it?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah? Look I thought, yeah, I mean he's an extremely
competent person. Andrew Little, you know, and he has a
he's quite an interesting politician. I did something some years ago,
a forum down here on the Terrace on prison reform,
and he was the Justice minister there, and he turned
up and he said, look, the big problem with politics
is that Evan's got an agendas and he've been looking
(11:05):
at the next election and knowing what to do. Anything
you don't see immediate results, I don't care. I believe
that this needs to happen and I'm going to do
it whether people like it or not. He then got
put into the health portfolio and all that to sappeared
out the window. But he's quite a principled person. Angry
Andy used to call him aunt the time, didn't They
get a bit grumpy at times? But look on certainly
(11:26):
if you look at at his record, his ability, he
can negotiate with government, all those sort of things. You know,
he's not the most sort of people person. I mean,
that's why he's sort of hestad aside for East, aside
for just Cinda. But yeah, but extremely competent, great background,
you know.
Speaker 5 (11:43):
Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. He really is
the anti Tory candidate, and by that I don't mean
left wing against the conservatives. He's the opposite of Torri
fart out and you know, she was always going to
have a hard task getting re elected, I believe, but
now her chances are pretty pretty zlch. I think Andrew
Little is standing. It's not just rumors. You don't put
(12:04):
those things.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Out in lesson and you've denied him pretty yah.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Yeah, it's a way of creating a story. He's a
master at that. So he is running.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He will win it down a solid as I think.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
So yeah, yeah, right, you don't let something like that
slip out. You don't be because you're you're open your door.
You either shut it straight away or your whatever. So
he's let it out there, which means it's almost.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
And I just think he's from casting Central for this race.
He's someone that is not heavily associated with kind of
what some people might see the current mayor as being
from a sort of fringe progressive sort of background. He's
seen as kind of a centrist.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Though, I mean, come on, let's cut to the chase
on this one. You say he's a centrist, right, his
background is heavily into unions, right, that's not centrist in
my world.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Well, I think in terms of the culture wars in particular,
which is what Tory Farno has sort of made her name,
and now it's all about race, gender, sexuality, Palestinian causes
things like that. On those issues, he is quite centrist.
He doesn't really associate himself with them. He's more about
(13:22):
let's fix things. Let's focus on what the you know,
the general public, the ordinary person is interested in. And
I think being a unionist fits in with that quite well.
Of his background, he was of course a student politician
as well.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But would he walk into that office and taking and
look around, so, gosh, we've got too many staff here.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I need to cut five hundred staff. Is he that guy, Mike?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Would he cut five hundred staffer?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Look? I think, Look, he's a union guy. Of course
he's not going yeah, but hang.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
On, he's also he's also an experienced politician. He's experienced
it sort in terms of organizations. Yes, he's not going
to just be stuck on the ideology of it, whatever
things think. I think he's a sort of person of
things need to be done. He's willing to do it.
What is interesting with this is there's been such an
end the politics thing around the whole election, which is
sort of somewhat, somewhat, sort of odd in many ways,
(14:12):
but just wonder whether that would be the only negative
in terms of he represents a party and there seems
a real feeling around it at the moment people are
sort of sick of party politics sort of dominating the
disrupting the council.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I doubt he would run as a labor candidate. I
presume he will run as an independent.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I think he'll be run.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And he'll separate himself and he'll make lots of centrist
sort of sounding campaign, no promises and statements and things,
and he'll be someone that, yeah, he will well, he
will position himself as a fix it man, someone who
will straighten out the Wellington City Council, not all this
touchy feely stuff. You know, he will go for you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Let's could he be a Wayne Brown.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yeah, I think that's yeah. I think he will be
pretty much the Wellington Wayne Brown. That's how he'll position himself.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That should excite everyone, shouldn't it.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Well, Wayne Brown is not that exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, I mean well, I mean the way that the
Auckland is progressing at the moment's exciting compared to Wellington.
I mean they get things done up there.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
So I remember talking to one of the posters that
was working for Wayne Brown after his campaign and they said,
look for Wayne Brown's campaign, we didn't try and make
him likable, we didn't try and make him colorful, we
didn't try and make him anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
We positioned him that he would get things done and
that he was a fix it man. And that's really
resonated with the Auckland voters. And I think the same
thing will be with Andrew Little. Just let's get things fixed.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Okay, I'm going to ask you both if the election
was tomorrow Saturday, Mark Sainsbury, who will win it?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right now? Putting Andrew Little in there, Little.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
I think it would be Little. But of course he
hasn't had much time to campaign, so there's you know,
some current incumbents in the race already that couldn't be
quite ruled out.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And he also has the advantage of name recognition, which
is a huge it's a massive factor in local body elections.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Are we underestimating And I'm just asking you both this
the power of the right wing in ray Chung, because
I mean, I'm only seeing secondhand, but I'm seeing that
there's a bit of poll in going on, and right
now Ray Chung's leading the pole.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, but it's still I mean that was and no
disrespect to Ray, but that was sort of you know,
there were there were a few other sort of real contenders,
were there. I mean, if you look at it, who's
up for it? You know, well, it's probably no surprise
you people might But this changes everything.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
I think it is the game changer and we'll see.
I mean, Ray Hung might be able to argue that
Little is someone that's trying to come in with no
background in local body politics and be a bit of
a carpetbacker, and that's what we had last time. Would
be the argument that Tory Farner came in pretending that
she knew how to do everything but had no experience
(17:03):
in local government politics and has been therefore a bit
of a mess. Could say the same about that.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Would be a long boat. No political experience would be
a little bit.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes, but he doesn't know anything about local government is
probably the argument.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
That I think he probably does. But yeah, absolutely, I
think he probably has.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think, you know, I don't think we ever want
to underestimate Andrew Little's intelligence. I think that would do
that all at our peril. I for one thing, it's
you know, an exciting move that if he is going
to stand.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
But I'll just quickly point out that although you might
find the right, whether it's voters on the right or
institutions of the right in Wellington backing rach Hung, at
the moment, I think they will find Andrew Little to
be an adequate, satisfactory candidate. He won't be a left
wing looney. He will be a centrist candidate that the
that the right can be happy with.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
And you know what, I haven't spoken to a single person,
not a single person that has actually not said exactly
what you said. You know, at least he's got intelligence.
Least he's smart. He'll get things done, he'll do all
those things. No one is saying, oh he's a bit left.
So Friday face off with doctor Bryce Edwards and Mark Sainsbury.
Let's talk Winston Peters. For let's lighten it up a
(18:19):
little bit and talk Winston Peters. Mark Sainsbury, I don't
know whether you're you or not, but Winston turns as
it's his birthday today. Now, if anyone's got a great
Winston story to tell, I'm not downgrading your story bros.
But Mark Sainsbury would have spent many a long late
night with Winston Peter.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
It's been down at the Green Parrot, and of course
back in those days were where even with smoking, you know,
and of course he was a great butt. It was Winston.
He sort of claims he's given up. I died. I
honestly don't know. But we always used at We had
a saying in politics that if Winston Peters didn't exist,
you'd have to invent him.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
He he's been such a it's mind boggling when you
just look back at his career and both sides and
he's one side there and the next side he's switched over.
He's an incredible political survivor. And boy oh boy, he
try arguing with him, you know. That's in Sainsbury. I'll
give you the facts. And the one thing about Winston
was you could have professionally, you guld have a real
(19:16):
stand up blue over something. You have a go at
you but.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Would if you goes because you're not the guy.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
You're not a confrontation no no, but but you don't
have to be confrontational to upset Winston. You might just
say something that he doesn't sort of agree with all
the things that you're putting it the wrong way. But
he could have a real go at you in that context,
you know, and then you could be outside, you know,
down the side of the building, having a fag and
carrying on with whatever. You know. As I said, times
of times have changed a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
How does he keep doing what he's doing? I mean,
he looks I said earlier on the show. He looks immaculate.
He looked, you know. I mean, he got the body
in the mind of a fifty eight sixty year old.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
He puts it down. The diet, he had this big
change so many many years ago and sort of was
cut back on carbs and a lot of fish and
things so that he actually he actually does take care
of himself and he's got jan his partner is sort
of is really good for him. But yeah, eighty years
old and he's you just think you compare him to Biden.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Wow, you know, look, I think it's worth paying tribute
to his age. Whatever you think of his politics, the
fact that he's there as Deputy Prime Minister for a
wee bit longer, not much longer, at the age of
eighty is just an incredible personal triumph and I think
it's something we need more of in New Zealand politics.
To be honest, we used to have in New Zealand
(20:34):
a lot of older politicians, people in their sixties, seventies
and eighties, and New Zealand, along with the rest of
the world, has kind of shifted to this cult of
youth and so our average age of our parliamentarian has
dropped quite considerably and now you have a lot more
people coming in in their twenties thirties, rarely as career politicians,
(20:55):
if you like. I think it's a shame that the
diversity is being lost. We don't have those older politicians anymore.
It's yeah, it's we're having Is it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That we're just Is it just that you've got older
and when you look at them, you know it's not.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
I'm talking about the stats here, Okay, the actual stats
show that Winston Peters is the absolute aberration. You don't
have people people generally retire from politics in their sixties now.
It didn't used to be that.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Because it's a lot tougher world mark.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I mean, you know, let's be honest with with all
the you know, social media and attention, it's a tougher job.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
The scrutiny that you're I mean, once upon a time
you got elected as an MP, it was sort of
it was almost like a job for life, you know,
if you just sort of, you know, played everything sort
of the right way. Now you know your past, whatever
you did. I mean, just look at the events of
the last couple of weeks. You know, everything comes back
to haunt you and and Winston. And because he first
he said haneure, I think he way back he did
(21:57):
an electoral recount and then he was out of parliament,
then back and again. In many ways, you could look
at it in his totality, he's almost like a career politician,
but you don't actually think of him as like a
career politician.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well you've got to, because that's what he is.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Well, I know, and he'd he'd been a lawyer beforehand,
but he's still he just doesn't have that same sort
of reek in some in some sort of ways, however,
he's done it and he just has some incredible ability
to reinvent himself exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
He surprises us. And he has had different identities over
the decades.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
So yeah, can I tell quickly while I've got on
where we're talking politicians. And I'm sorry to interrupt you there, Bryce,
but I just want to quickly ask you, there's many
of you report out about the suffering that the female
politicians are being put under it through social media and
abuse and you know, threatened with rape and all that stuff. Rice,
what's wrong with our society when we can't, you know,
(22:51):
we have to resort to horrible actions like this.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
This is an important topic and I think we do
have trouble in New Zealand with the way we treat politicians,
especially female politicians. There's misogyny, there's a polar going on
out there, there's a lack of civility and all of that,
and we've got to take these things very seriously, and
(23:15):
especially in terms of any threats of violence to politicians
or anyone in fact, and we don't want to go
down that route that we're seeing a bit in other countries.
On the other hand, you've got to I think that
report that came out probably needs a bit more critique.
It had a very small sample size, it didn't compare
it to male politicians. So if you want to know,
you know, how a female politicians are getting at worse,
(23:37):
which I think they are it compared to male you
still have to sort of do a proper comparison, and
I'm not sure that was there, And so I do
wonder whether we need a more nuanced debate on the sort.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Of the comparison.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, the threats, I think it's happening to all politicians
and all a lot of public figures and things.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Mark, can I just go to you on this one,
because I mean, you've got history on your side. Was
it like this twenty years ago? Did the female politicians,
you know, in your heyday, did they still cop it
as much as as what they're doing now?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Did you get much talk.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Probably said well, don't forget in social media? Wasn't didn't
have the same thing. I wonder too whether this is
reflective of women in any area, you know, the sort
of stuff that they're getting, the misogyny and the sexism.
You know, you take any industry you might find similar
similar things. I mean, I remember James Shaw, remember he
got attacked on the street. I mean, it goes against
(24:34):
politicians are there to serve us and it should be protected.
It's a vital part of the whole of the whole system.
But yeah, this and I can remember it at the
time when Jacinda R durn was Prime Ministers. I was
at a function of talking to Grant Robinson, whom saying, oh,
the DPS have told him not to leave the house
for four days. What this is the Prime Minister of you?
Because that hold the misogyny and the hate that sort
(24:55):
of managed to find a focus with her. So I
think the female politicians certly probably get it worse. But
I think women in all sectors of society are facing
this and you get that that's the same degrees of
misogyny and sexism.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I think. I think you're absolutely right. You're listening to
Friday Face Off.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
When we have Mark Sainsbury and Bryce Edwards and doctor
Bryce Edwards in the studio with us, we do a
brap of the week. If you never listened to Face Off,
of course you've listened to Face Off before we do
a rap of the stuff we've talked about and one
of the stories that went a bit crazy, and I
can see that one of the other our sister stations
is doing a story on it right now and the
text machine is going lighting up the Chase. Television and
(25:33):
New Zealand are producing four episodes of a New Zealand
version of the Chase. It's going to be held in Australia.
You've got to pay for your own trip over. You've
got to pay for your own accommodation. If you want
to compete in it, they can call.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
It the Dodge then Dodge. Wow. TVNS is not even
paying up for an airfare. That's pretty bad, that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It's a costing Mark Mark.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You're married to television, Yea, Zellen. You know you've had
a couple of divorces, but you're married to them. You're
in bed with them. Who's going to host it for
a start, Well, I'd like it to be me. I'd
love to do that show. I watched The Chaser. I
love the Chase. It's a great show.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, it's because of Brad, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Brad? He's such looking. That guy is just amazing. But
you watch it's interesting watching red So do them all
shoot the whole light in one big block?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You know how many would they do in a day?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I think it was something like seven. I think they
might have got through in a day. It just it
just fairies. I know, no, wouldn't be they would get
through seven. But there was I remember reading something about this,
and you can see sometimes all of them Brad gets
really grumpy, so it's obviously being the end of a
long shooting session. He gets a bit short with some
of them. You know another Edwards, he's already quite warm,
engaging host.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I mean, that's that's he's amazing. That's that's the thing
about him.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
So come on, apart from you, and I think you
your name when we did it yesterday on the show,
all the day before in the show, your name did
pop up a couple of times, so well that was me.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So you named it pop up.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I mean, I can tell you that the Herald has
done a poll, and only because I was listening to
to Mike this morning.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And Mike was he was putting him east and he
wants to have another crack.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Well, he was leading the pole. He wouldn't have done
the story if he wasn't number one on the pole.
You can guarantee that if he was number two or
number three, we wouldn't have heard about it this morning.
But he was number one on the pole. So who's
who's your person? Apart from yourself?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Well, I can't see past myself be perfectly, to be
perfectly honest. It's all about being honest when you come
on here with you next.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
There's also there's also ideas of grandeur on when you
come on with the show.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You can't push that too.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
So, I mean, the problem is it seems to be
a tendency, especially with TV and Z, you get one
presenter and then they do everything. I mean Jerry Wells,
who's a good mate of mine, I think is a
fantastic presenter, but he does task last. He does seven sharp,
you know, like it sort of once once you get going.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I think he's a bit cold for the show. I
think he's a bit cold for the chase.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I don't think he's got the empathy.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I mean the Jason Gunn.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
You know what, Jason Gunn can't be serious about anything.
That's Jason Gunn's fault in my part. Come on, Bryce,
you give me, I'll come back.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Oh look, I think Jeremy well is the no brainer.
I think he can be warm, he can be funny.
I think it will be him probably Paul Henry, Yeah,
he could do it as well, actually, but I don't
think he wants it anymore. He's he's basically retired and
only comes in for really things he'd love to do.
(28:24):
I'm not sure he'd love to do that off the
pension exactly. If it was my choice, it would be
Guy Williams. He's funny.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Oh my god, this crowd goes silent. Yeah, he used
to play for the Saints. I know him reasonably well.
I don't think he'd be the right guy. He's got
some of the qualities. He's bright enough, and.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Mike Hosking would be the right guy either. He's got
his talents, his own strengths, but not for and how.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Serious about this thing they're doing four reps? I mean,
And the reason that's happening is that they did exactly
the same thing with Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?
The Ausies have already built the set and got all
the infrastructure in place, and so when they did that show,
they'd fly all the contestants and Mike Hosking over and
they'd used a downtime on the set and it was
a cheap way to sort of do it this thoughbviously,
just tipping their dough dough their toe in the water
(29:11):
to see where.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
They're going to sit enough.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
So they'll see how this goes and and sort of
work from that as to whether they you know, whether
they invest, but you've got to sort of build them,
you know, you've got to build the set and you
do the whole thing there, and there's the licensing.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I mean, I've seen the Australian one and I don't
like it. God, Australia.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Look, the proposal should be that we do it here
in Wellington and we do it for Australia and we
bring over a few Australians into a trans tantment and chase.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
See the hardest thing it's the it's it's the chases themselves.
It's getting was that the Aussie one used sort of
local AUSSI Aussie chases and it was just wasn't the same.
And they almost try and copy, don't they the sort
of the same sort of character types as.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Who would they do?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It? Is the chasers, I mean would have to find
I mean, you know, find four or three I don't
know they made and they.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Didn't recognize any of them. Didn't know when I watched it,
and it's just yeah, it's just it's like the Aussies
did top Gear and that was the same thing. It
was just dreadful.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
So Mark Sainsbury's our vote well into the mornings, will
vote to be the host, and don't tell Mike Costking that.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
We did that.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Email TV ands it immediately.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Please, otherwise I'd lose my gold pretty quickly. Mike's Mike's
got a bit of influence on this company, so I
don't want to not say him.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I I'd say you'd be second choice to Mike's. Good
on you, Mike Costing, so right, hots and that's Mark Sainsbury,
come on, can be with your hot to not?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Okay, I'll stay up with a knot and that's Eunich.
You're mine not hot. Because when I heard there was
again suddenly, oh Nick Mills might be standing for me,
I thought, yes, our problem is sold. You listened to
here this morning and you you're sort of hosing that
down quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So that was my Can I just say on that quickly?
And I'm not hosing it down because Andrew Little, because
all my news room comrades.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Have said, well, he's not.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
He's pulled his name out because he's got opposition. I
would love if I was going to go for it.
I'd love to go against Andrew Little. Not scare me
at all.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
You're not hot, good it's on. You're HoTT.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
I only want your job, that's all. Hey, look but
my het. I'm going to a shout out to the guys.
There's two blokes he turned up from animal control, the
one in city council that you've heard about my travails
or the whippet. Yesterday, these two guys turned up to
the door and said you lost the dog. I said,
I know, I don't think so. And then discover it's
not there. I'd found it, brought it back. They were saying,
(31:30):
here's a fine, we're gonna do this. They took the
trouble to track me down, turned up and got the
dog back to us. And I thought, good on you,
that's what we want to see it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Because Mark says favourus of was anyone ouse old bloody.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Then I was coming on with you the next day.
That was probably fifty three year old coming into the door.
They would have gone, come on, Bryce, give me your
hots and knots.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
Not is the resignation of David Parker, Labor MP. He's
announced he's going. Whatever you think of his politics, he
added real heft to the Labor Party and I think
they actually need that heft at the moment. So I'm
sort of worried for any political party that loses the
kind of intellectual powerhouse.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I agree with you, complee.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
And my hot is the announcement that Lord is releasing
her new album today. Yeah, and she dropped fifteen seconds
of it and it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I love Lord. My hot, I've got a hot today.
Your glasses I am thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Yeah, cheers.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
It's like a psychadelic herohotter.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Not hot.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
That was my not hot, wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
I have it not hot. I do not have it
not hot. I'm missed a positive today. Thank you my
guest Mark Sainsbury and Bryce Edwards. Doctor Bryce Edwards, thanks
for coming in on the show. I know it takes
time out of you both very busy schedules, but we
appreciate and Wellington people appreciate having people's opinion.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's a good build up to the Hurricanes win.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
It is a good build up for the Hurricanes win.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Bryce and who are here with Mark, Thank you very much.
I've had I should have stopped by now.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Thank you for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills.
Listen live to news talks. It'd be Wellington from ninety
eight in weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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