January 30, 2025 • 32 mins
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has floated the idea of campaigning on asset sales at the next election - but what does the government have to sell?
Also, a three-day police operation that saw 14 people arrested for being in possession of stolen trolleys has drawn criticism from some local leaders, alleging its an attack on the poor. Is this an appropriate use of police resources?
To answer those questions, former Minister and Ohariu MP Peter Dunne and Silvereye managing director Jo Coughlan joined Nick Mills for Friday Faceoff.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday face off with quinovat Property Management a better rental
experience for all Call oh eight hundred. Quinovic starts Friday
(00:31):
face Off.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's our opportunity to look back at the week it was.
It's our opportunity to bring a couple of well known
Wellingtonians and to get dear view, to get dear ideas,
to get dear thoughts of what has happened in the
last week and come up with new new ideas. Joining
us today is former Minister in Ohario MP Peter Dunkom.
(00:54):
Morning Peter, Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You're well, I'm well famous.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You had a good break, had a good brain. You're
on holiday. You're on you're retired, so you've always on
a permanent holiday.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
But it's funny. You still get the thing about the
holiday scenes, do you?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Is it change?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's sure, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There you go. And Silver I Managing director Joe Coglan, Joe,
do you give a break? You've got so many kids,
you probably had All you did was look after kids
and grandkids.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
We did have a great break actually went to Tapo
and then up to the Corimandel and then up to
Mitty Mitty on the wild West coast of Northland, which
was pretty amazing with wild horses and all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Any of the kids come back from overseas.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yep, they did. Prior to that though, because we had
a family wedding, so had two family weddings on each
side of the family, so it was all go for us.
So yeah, a great time.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Good to get back to workh Yes. Prime Minister Christopher
Luxan has suggested National may run on a platform of
asset sales at the next election, and Finance Minister Nichola
Willis is already having a deep dive into what could
possibly be sold. Joe Cogland, is this a good idea?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Well, I think, you know, you've got to look at
all your options and try and be pragmatic about these things.
And I guess ask the question, you know, why would
you sell If it's an issue of sort of governance.
You can always transfer assets to another entity. I go,
you know, the super fund or something like that to
get those investments to perform better. But I think you know,
when you are selling anything, you need to have a
(02:22):
clear purpose and need to really think through the benefit
of that and be thoughtful and analytical and strategic and
not ideological. So I guess, you know, just look at
the risk in return and the capital required relative to
what the benefits might be for selling those assets, and
if it stecks up as a good idea, then I
go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Peter Dunn, can you think back, I mean when you've
been in politic do you mean in all your life
think back to when a time when we needed to
sell stuff? Do we need to sell stuff now? And
what have we got to sell?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well about two points. I don't think we need to
be selling stuff now for the reason that Sir John
keemad the other day, there's not much left to sell.
It's going to raise a lot of value. There was
a time previously, in the later eight early nineties when
the government had taken on historically a lot of ill
performing companies had been sort of picked up by the
government's blanket if you like, to be looked after, and
(03:15):
they didn't do any better under government control. You know,
we had a tourism agency, we had printing works, we
had all sorts of things government print, Yeah, they would.
The Crown divested itself of those, with mixed results. I
have to say some went quite well, some went pretty poorly.
I mean the government then had to buy back rollways
and airways a decade later because they were in danger
of collapse. Altogether, I think the real issue here, and
(03:37):
Joe touched on it, and I think Nicola Willis did
the other day as well. It's not actually necessarily about
divesting ownership. It's about improving performance. What's the best way
of improving performance in the Crown's assets. I just wrote
a piece this morning about housing and how I think
this huge scope for a better approach to the provision
(03:58):
of public housing than there is at the moment, without
actually selling the stock, but certainly improving the management, bringing
in more private sector property management schools, et cetera, et cetera.
And I think are you talking state housing? Basically I'm
talking about state housing and I'm talking about council housing.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, there shouldn't be a separation exet between.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
There's seventy two thousand state houses fourteen thousand council houses
around the country, but them under one heading. I'm a
great fan for the GJ gardeners and all these companies
that are on TV every night telling you they can
build you the home of their dreams, utilizing their professional
skills in running and designing the future States housing system. Now,
it's not a fanciful idea because it's what the labor
(04:37):
government did in the nineteen thirties when they got fletchers
and to build the first center of state houses. Anyway,
So let's just have that sort of thing. And I
think that's far more relevant than the privatization debate.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, And I mean you've got to remember that those
kind of air sets like Housing New Zealand or whatever,
you know, has sold houses over the years all the
time to reconfigured its portfolio. It's upgraded, it's sold, it's
moved on, it's bought better stock, you know, all of
that kind of thing. So things shift around. So I
think this sort of ideology of selling or not selling
is not that helpful. And whatever you do, you don't
(05:09):
want to be doing things sort of for a quick
sugar hit. I mean, you know, thinking about Wellington's car parks,
you know, would have been quite good probably if they
hadn't all been sold a while ago. Yes, I think
case By case basis is the way to go and
look at who can best managed these assets and how
we can get the most out of them.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I see, I love your idea too, P. But I
mean the whole thing we're encompassing a little bit more
but Kiwi Bank, right, So we give Kiwi Bank more money.
We help fund those houses, those state houses to people
that actually will make them their own. It will make
them better people when they own their own homes and
they've got something to look after. Makes it The whole
(05:47):
thing works, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
But I go further. You look at the other big
building assets that the Crown's got, schools and hospitals. Now
I'm not talking about privatizing the services at all, but
I am saying we need a better system for managing
those assets. You know, schools that are empty for large
tracks of the in different maintenance programs, schools can't meet them.
(06:09):
You know, there are all sorts of things. I think
went doing an even hospital as a classic example, and
I think we could adopt a much more business like
approach to the management of the assets. I'm not talking
about the delivery of the services, but the physical assets
in which those services are provided, which would return a
better amount to the government each year.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You like it? Do you agree with it? Jo?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Definitely?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
YEA Friday face off with Peter Dunn and Joe Coglan,
the government has revealed a visa change for things that
they're calling if they're calling it a digital nomad's allowing
people visitors to come into New Zealand and stay here.
I think it's up to nine months and work remotely
for offshore companies. I mean, firstly, I love the idea
of being able to have a job where you could
(06:53):
earn money by working anywhere in the world. I know
a couple of people. I know a very high flying
American that lives in Willington, lives down the road from me,
that looks after high end recruitment for an American company.
Doesn't have to ever be there. Is it all from
his computer and everything? Joe COGNI, is this a good
idea and is it going to actually, you know, help
(07:13):
us as much as what the Finance Minister believes it will.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, you know, I think it's a good idea, but
it's not like a new idea. You know, lots of
other countries do this, and so I guess we're just
now putting ourselves in the market for the people that
might have gone to Croatia or Costa Rica or Indonesia
or Greece or Malta or wherever else. You can already
get one of these visas. So it's not like it's
a whole new, new innovative concept really, And I think
(07:39):
you know there was that case, wasn't there of speed God,
I'm probably going to get the name wrong now. The
YouTube bloggo us YouTube blogger guy who came out and
you know, he's got thirty million or thirty five million
followers or something like that, and it was like speak yeah,
busily streaming all his videos and making all this money.
And then you know, Immigration got onto him and said
(08:02):
you're working, said you're working from New Zealand data da
you know, get said home. Whatever happens, he goes home,
and you know, then all of a sudden all his
comies negative about New Zealand, and you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Know, so actually get home.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
I don't know, I don't think I was seen home.
But he couldn't work here like he was to do
it anyway, The point was that he made what turned
into what should have been positive, you know, videos about
New Zealand turned into getting a whole lot of negative feedback,
you know, and for other reasons as well. But so
I think if these people are going to come, we've
got to look after them.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It makes sense that you know, we're in the you know,
modern day. I mean, my kids come from New York.
They two of them work for Uber, big tech company.
They can come and work you know, at home, and
you know, I'd be very happy if they came from.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But did they work when they came out and holiday?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah they did.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
But I mean, obviously the New Zealander is but yeah,
it's totally possible for people to do it, so they
should be allowed to do it, and you know, hopefully
it'll be good for good for the economy.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's not a big deal though, Peter, I don't think.
I don't disagree with I think it's quite a sensible move.
But I'm not sure is going to be the big
item that is being portrayed as the only little nigga
I've got about it, and it's a very small one.
Is it's the sort of the bolt whole concept, you
know that there are a lot of said after the
(09:20):
American and Ectrian American people looking to escape to New
Zealand to avoid the excesses of Trumpism. You've got a
great little country down here enough to come and live there.
That's my only concern that we get a lot of
people who see this as a way of getting backdoor
residents in New Zealand longer term. And I just was
thinking this morning about the whole experience we had some
(09:41):
years ago. You may recall with Peter Teel who was
granted citizenship of New Zealand. It'd only been to the
country a couple of times, but he had property and
stuff like that. Now, I don't find that sort of
thing particularly desirable, and I think we've just got to
be a wee bit careful that we don't end up
opening the door to this. But in the meantime, people
coming here for nine months, being able to work while
(10:02):
they're here, presuming that have to be some sort of
tax arrangement about means.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I'll probably paid their tax in America they come from.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
We won't cut the ticket, make sure we don't have
the idea on their backs. But fine, And it might
be a good way of encouraging people to come back
as visitors in their own right.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
But it does make you think about, you know, what
else could we be doing. And I mean, I look
at the Chinese tourism situation. So I just took a
group to China end of last year, ten young people,
and you know we didn't have to get a visa
fifteen day visa three amazing, Like just was so easy.
And then I think it's by the time you get
documents translated and do everything else for them to come
(10:40):
the other way, you know, it's about five hundred dollars.
So I mean, it doesn't really seem fear, does it.
And that's a huge, huge tourism that you know, we
could be attracting.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I don't know, why are we not opening it
up and making it like some hell of a lot easier.
We've just put up all the prices that make it
less desirable, Peter done. Why are we not saying, you know,
apart from this digital nomad stuff, saying we just want
you to come?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And yeah, look, I think there's been an element for
too long of seeing visitors to New Zealand as potential
cash cows. You know, it's the same way again. We
could argue this separately and probably not disagree that it's
a good idea, but the idea of charging overseas visitors
to visit national parks, for instance, which we've done, but
(11:25):
it's all because they've got money and we could take
it off them. Now, that's fine up to a point,
but I think in some cases, and the sort of
instance Joe's talking about, you know, the bureaucracy has gone
too far. We should have people able to come here
for a short term visit, come and get out, enjoy
what they want to enjoy while they're in New Zealand
and go home with positive memories.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah, and just make sure that you know that, yeah,
they have a good experience.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I want to move on to speed limits. A couple
of days ago we got the announcement that came out
that thirty eight sections of road around the country will
have their speed limits reverted to what they were before
the previous government reduced them. A lot of them were
in our area and the wire wrapper, Joe, your four
lanes to the planes got lifted back to seventy You'll
be very placed. You'll be very pleased about that they have.
They haven't changed the street name to Joe Conglan Drive yet, oh,
(12:15):
but one day they will. Is this a smart idea, Joe,
or what do you when you first read this, what
do you think? Like you come a little bit close
to your mind?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, look, I mean I was watching the news last night.
Lots of people are very happy about those speeds speed
limits being reversed, and that's all good, But I don't know.
One of the things that it's a bit annoying is,
you know, the cost of just signage and wasteful cost
that goes into a change like that. You know that
all adds up across the country again for local government
(12:46):
and lots of cases, and what a pity, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So so are you for the idea of them speeding
them up?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Look, I'm fine on most of the roads. I mean,
if there are a couple of roads that really, you know,
the speeds shouldn't be lifted on, then I think that
probably that'll come through. There's another consultation on it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Isn't there another forty nine different ones?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, you know, that'll that'll come out in the wash,
hopefully and hopefully, you know, we'll get the right outcome.
But I do feel that some of the you know,
some of the roads, probably it wasn't necessary to reduce
the speeds. Having said that. You know, when I think
about Wellington as a whole, I do remember being on
the council and one of the ideas at the time
(13:25):
was to reduce speed limits pretty much across the city
to forty and you know, we all thought that was
not a great idea necessarily, but maybe if we had
been more open to some of that, we wouldn't have
had to have the over engineering of all of the
cycle ways and everything else that we have had. So
it's sort of an interesting conundrum. But yeah, they've done
(13:45):
it now, so I just think it, you know, we
move on. I'd rather that the Minister of Transport was
focusing on other things, building tunnels.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And getting it started. Yeah, right, what are you thinking people.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, I think it's horses, of course. I think some
roads the speed limits were reduced to artificially low. In
other cases you'd probably want to keep them low or
reduce And I think that the idea of a sort
of a blanket reduction as the way this has been presented,
as we're sort of overturning everything that went before, I
think is unwise.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I'm just do you think they're just doing it for
the sake of doing it? In some cases.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I think it's an element of that. But here's the thing.
I just noted that in Ireland, from the seventh to February,
following a Road Safety Authority report, rural roads will be
reduced from eighty k to sixty, urban roads will be
down to thirty. National secondary roads will go down from
one hundred to eighty. And why they're doing this They
want a curb road deaths. And you know, you think
(14:40):
of our road toll in New Zealand. What was the
road toll in Ireland nineteen and twenty twenty four similar
sized population one hundred and seventy four people?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What was our howses?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Ours was well over two hundred.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, but it was the lowest lost over I mean,
just put that into eighty four. I'm getting to do so,
just put.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That into some sort of context. It's about safety and
it's about doing the right thing for the right roads.
I mean, I think that the extension on the Covered
Expressway and potentially in time transmission Gully to one hundred
and ten and somebody the Hamilton one that's worked well,
there haven't been incidents there on other road should probably
run a bit more circumstanced.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I mean, if you really want to put a flag
up and say a success as Transmission Gully. I mean,
touch would touch my brain, touch anything. There's not been
a death since it opened. Now we're all well in
Tony and so we all know how many deaths it's
on that stretch of road. Beforehand, that was like, you know,
every time you drove down there was a new white cross,
wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
But I mean the reality is most of our a
lot of our roads are not fit for purpose. And
you know, once you get past Tapo and you know
you're getting up to Auckland, it's absolutely fantastic. I mean,
we're doing better now we've got Transmission Gully. We've got
these four lanes. You know that's great. But really, you
drive around a lot of New Zealand and you just think,
holy heck, you know these these roads are not good.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You just you say, you no, wonder every time we
turn TV on we see an accident of potholes and
windy roads. I'm going to put this out there. I'm
going to say thanks to the Childs again for the
fireworks tomorrow. Because it's not been paid for by the
city council. It's been paid by a private enterprise business
that said, you know that they want to support the
city and celebrate the Chinese year. Joe, you're nodding your
(16:22):
head that. I mean, that's a good thing. Isn't it
the week?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
That's fantastic And actually we should really be saying Happy
New Year of the snake.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's a snake, is it?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Apparently? And you can say to your family and friends
shiny and hull. So I don't know how well it
was pronounced, but anyway, apparently you cared. So I think
that's great and that's wonderful that there will be a
wonderful celebration and.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Good to have fireworks. I mean, this is the sort
of thing that the council should be doing.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Peter.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But isn't it great that private enterprise. You know, these
guys started by making burgers. I mean I remember the
I and Burger making burgers on Courty Place late at night.
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No, it's good and it's good that that tom the weather,
it seems as it's going to behave so that it
can be a great display. And the idea that tens
of thousands people will line in the waterfront, I think
it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and it doesn't cost.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
No, we should be encouraging more of this and so
the enterprise instead of taking the grim view that this
is all frivolous stuff that we don't need. We do
need to be up lifted occasionally.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Right, Let's talk about woke banks. Shane Jones is on
the warpath criticizing banks climate policies which have seen some
banks calling and loans for the likes of petrol stations
and mining companies. B and Z article this morning b
and Z tells coal miner will shut the accounts by
two thousand and thirty. Shane Jones wants some intervention here,
(17:42):
Peter Dunne, Are we starting to get into a wo
a wokeness that's even driving me not?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I always shudder when I hear Saint Shane Jones speak
because there's often a lot of rhetoric and very little substance.
But I think there is a point here, and it
is dangerous that banks and other business institutions are sort
of prejudging what the policy outcome should be. If economic
conditions change such that mining or running petrol stations or
(18:13):
whatever are not profitable businesses and the way they used
to be, then I think it's a different story for
the banks to say, well, maybe that you know, you're
not the best people to be lending money.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
To realistically, this is not profit lot.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
No, but making the judgment first that this is something
we disapprove of. I mean, where do you stop. We
disapprove of fast food manufacturers, we disapprove of you know,
you knowed any set of other activities, and we're going
to stop making finance available to them. I think there's
a very dangerous point here.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, Joe, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I mean, I just think, you know, I mean a
lot of I mean, sentiment has changed, isn't it. You know,
sort of in the back In twenty twenty one, you know,
there was the UN Climate someone in Glasgow and banks
signed up to a pledge to drive emissions to net zero.
So fast forward to twenty twenty five and the world's
a different place, lill different thinking, and some of the
(19:07):
banks now that signed up to that and now leaving.
So I guess the thing is that there's just this
you know, backlash really against ESG and inclusion if it's
made by sort of businesses to achieve social aims, and
I mean, you know it's.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
But should it be up to a bank to make
that decision.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Well, I mean, they have to do what their bosses
tell them. And if they're you know, foreign owned and
they've signed up for some accord you know, and you
know some other part of the world, then well the
banks here don't really have much choice. So that's that's
just how that rolls. But but you know, I mean
I think it's a bigger picture really of things like
you know, capital flows and where is the money coming from,
(19:46):
and you know, banking competition and regulation, and you know,
you've just got to sort of look at, you know,
how can we get these businesses supported and being able
to get the loans they need to be productive and
to grow the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Can realistically Peter done the government do anything.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I think the government can see the overall policy and
and the announcements today about encouraging more mining a part
of that. Now, whatever your view on them, they are
setting a direction they want to pursue that should guide
some of the decisions that banks and others might make
in response to that. If the government's said to be
take the complete flip side that we're going to ban
all mining immediately, We're going to ban all use of
(20:27):
fossil fuels immediately or within a short pace of time.
That would obviously have an impact as well. But I
think really, you know, it's for the governments of the
world to set the overall environment and for the financial
institutions to work within that to support whatever the industries
are that are seeking support. The danger is if people
(20:49):
start to go and think, you know, we'll just push
the policy out here because it suits us to do so.
I think that's where you get into trouble and distortions.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Creeping Joe, isn't it more proof that we need Kiwi
Bank to be a lot more of a game player
than they are at the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Well, I mean that'll be good because you know, there'll
just be more capital flowing around if they can get
more more capital coming through, so that that's all good.
But I mean I think at the end of the day,
I mean, banks are there to make profit, and you
know they're like to be they should be just looking
at their clients on a case by case basis, so
they're not ending on a case by case space as well.
That's because they have you know, policy settings and directions
(21:26):
that come from on high. So yeah, that's the that's
the quandary.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Peter, I'll come to you on that one. Do you
think that by having Kiwibank a more dominant factor in
the marketplace and not have these policies of where they
whether they will or not open a bank account for you,
I don't make a difference.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It would have an influence, but I'm not sure that
the difference will be substantial because Kiwibank to compete with
the foreign banks in New Zealand would need a massive
capital boost. I think the government's open to the idea
of a greater capital injection to Qiwi Bank, but I'm
not sure it will be of the size that will
sort of put it right up there on a scale
the multinational banks.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You don't think they could.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I just don't think that Mu's got the capacity to
fund there all.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Would you be open to outside you know, like a
Chinese bank.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Joining We already have these banks in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Ronnie, I'll assume another one. We're getting fund for the
funding aspect of Kiwi Bank, keep it as a government
owned thing.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I'm open to a very competitive banking sector where where
you know, those pressures help regulate behavior, and I think
that Kiwi Bank has a role to play, and that,
in fact, over the last twenty odd years, has played
a role. But it's just not big enough, that's the
point I'm making.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Or strong enough. Oh my gosh, I was just showing
off my tattoo to Peter Dunn and Joey Coglan. But
we'll talk about tattoo shortly. I want to talk about
Operation Trolley first, wrote a Police have arrested thirteen people
and seized forty five trolleys in a three day operation
this week, sparking criticism from departy Mari Go leader Rawi
(23:01):
Rawiri Watiti on the poor being targeted. Really gone at Joe,
what do you think about this? I mean, do we
really need Operation Trolley and do we need targeting these
poor people?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Well, you know, I was pretty shocked really to think
that it was three days of police time. I think
that's what it was, wasn't it. And you know, really,
if we need to just get all those trolleys back,
couldn't we just put some school kids that are on
detention out to the streets and perhaps they could gather
them up. I mean, it did seem ridiculous, But then
when I actually read the story, in more detail. You know, Look,
(23:39):
a lot of the people that have these trolleys clearly
have some complex mental health issues, and there are cases
of sort of you know, safety and whatnot, and the
police probably do need to become involved in those cases.
But yeah, I mean, I think it's good to do
something about that. Certainly, the mayor of Rhoda Rail was
(24:02):
very enthusiastic about it, and Tom McLay they much closer
to the X and they know what the problem is
up there. But honestly, I don't think police should buy
and large be returning trolleys unless they're full of you know,
contraband or something stole. Look, let's get the kids out
there undertention. Well yeah, I mean some of them look
pretty empty from the photos. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Peter Dunn, what did you first think when you read
Operation trop.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Look, I thought what on earth is this all about?
When I looked at it, and I thought this is
a bit of an overreaction. But what really annoyed me
about it wasn't the particulars of the police activity or
the numbers of trolleys being chased, but it was robbery
writing these comments that the poor were being intentionally targeted.
There seems to be an implicit attitude here that if
(24:47):
you are poor and deprived, things like not stealing property
from others, whether it be food or shopping trolleys or whatever,
doesn't apply to you. And that's the bit I found
a politician, a national politician, almost saying, well, leave off
these people because they're poor and deprived, the law doesn't
apply to them. I found that quite disturbing because it's
not the shopping trolleys, it's the next thing will be well,
(25:10):
the ram raids are only occurring because they're hungry, So
don't you know. Now, there are biggest social issues here
that need to be addressed, but I don't think one
of the ways of addressing them the saying, well, the
law doesn't apply to you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right. Have you any trouble with your Sky TV? Both
of you have Sky TV? Because we did a story
during the week based on my own personal story of
having a terrible time over the holidays of not being
able to get my Sky going. Then I find out
by doing having a chat about it on the show
that there's thousands of people around New Zealand getting really
(25:43):
bad service from Sky and they've got a bit of
a problem. TV wanted a story a couple of days ago.
I mean, it's just been a media crack up, or
not a crackup, a media golden point. It's been really
working for them, Joe Coglin, do you reckon Sky service
and Sky's up to what it used to be.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Well, look, I'm not a big user of Sky services,
to be honest, and in fact we downgraded subscription and now
we can only get I don't know, some sport or something.
But in fact we hardly watch any television over the
whole summer, apart from a bit of Australian Open and
a bit of sport. But well, I mean, you know
it'll come out in the wash win it. If they're
(26:21):
not providing a good enough service, they'll just lose subscribers
in their in their business will you know, be on
the downturn. So it's not been a big issue for me. Actually,
we just don't watch the same amount of TV that
we used to.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Since my Sky went off. You know, it changed my
whole viewing as well. Peter Dunn have you you're retired, Peter,
so you Sky is very important to as I thought.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I had a problem until yesterday because my Sky was
coming up with saying it was shutting down with a
big sign saying waiting for updates and when you're pushed
on the button, okay, nothing ever happened, And I thought
when I heard about this wider story, I thought, I'm
obviously part of the same thing. And then I decided, well,
I'll just have a go at rebooting it. In surprise, surprise,
(27:05):
downloaded the updates and everything's been perfect. So I don't
think I'm part of the problem. But what I do
think about this is we had someone come around before
Christmas who was updating our satellite for the switch to
the new one. I think the information from Sky about
what's going on, how people will be affected, what they
need to do, has been extraordinarily poor or non existent.
(27:26):
People are being left literally in the dark, and you
are concerned about what's going on, they don't know. I
think that the sort of casual observation idea the existing
satellite's wearing out more quickly than we thought was almost
like a throwaway line. Subscribers need to be given this information,
and they need to be given clear steps if there
(27:47):
are any, that they can take to get over it.
Otherwise they'll vote with their feet absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Another story that we did this week that Gaya gathered
a little bit of attention to us was tattoos. Now,
we are all of a group of people that probably
never ever dreamed of having a tattoo or thought about
having a tattoo. Joe Coglan, is it acceptable now someone
came to work for you and they walked in and
they had tattoos on their necks and their fingers and
(28:13):
their hands. What would what would your first indication? What
would your first thought be? Stop laughing?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
My first thought now is are my kids listening to this?
Because they will be laughing. It's kind of well known
in my household that I'm not a big fan myself
of tattoos. Actually, that's just the reality. And it's not
that I don't necessarily like them. It's just that I
feel like they are quite a permanent fixture, and you sad,
(28:41):
like my mother, you know, if you could just if
you could have them for a while and then and
then get rid of them, you know, like you can
you know, you paint your nails and you get sick
of it, and you know you can you can change
it up or your look, you know. Then I think
that would be different so I just worry sometimes that people,
you know, it's a very long term thing, a tattoo,
and it's obviously a very personal choice, and I think
(29:02):
it is pretty acceptable now. I mean a lot of
people have tattoos.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
All for the world.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
You know, we've just been to an Ibetha it recently,
and you know there's no shortage I think there. So
I mean I would, I mean, I would never, you know,
I mean, I think it's just each to their own really,
but you know, for me personally, TETs are not the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Peter Dunn. And I'm going to come back to you
if I've got a chance, because I want to ask
you to the two views.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I quite like I'm getting to like the full pace
Molko that you know, the traditional Maori Pacific Island tattoos
you're seeing, they're genuine. What I'm still struggling to accept
is the other forms of artwork that people are parading
around the place, because I don't think they've got the
same genuine cultural base. And I take Joe's point about
the long term nature, but as a society we're probably
(29:48):
becoming more tolerant, if not getting used to them. We're
seeing them a bit more and probably just a bit
more tolerant about the idea. But I'm sure deep down
we're still a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Joe, one of your daughter's boyfriend, I've got to be
very very quick. So I mean, told to go to
an air break, turned up with her new boyfriend and
he's got tats all over his neck and everything. Would
you be quietly whispering in her air that's a note?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
No, of course I wouldn't. I mean, if she thought
he was great, you know, I'd absolutely one hundred percent
be giving him a chance, and I'd be basing my
decisions on a lot of other things apart from that,
the Friday faceidet.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Okay, we're only got a couple of minutes's going to
be quick, Come on, and who's going to Who wants
to go first? Go? Joe?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You go?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
All right, Well I'm going to start with the knots
because i want to finish on a positive note. I
think just you know, the ongoing sort of wasteful spending
that you see around the traps, and you know, I'm
not looking forward to the one hundred and fifty million
that's going to go down the Google, at least on
lemblin Key went through the town belt the other day
and there was a little bridge being built in Otarry
Bush and I thought, great to have that bridge, but
(30:56):
honestly it looked like it could take a head of
elephants and I thought, really it needs to take one
runner at a time, probably a bit overspect the hots
actually the town about Oriental Bay. Been spending a lot
of time in there doing some running and stuff in
swimming in Oriental Bay. So lucky to have Orangele Bay.
It is amazing, so lucky to have just so many
(31:19):
trails all around the place that we can go and enjoy.
And just to finish off a few cool businesses actually
in Wellington, like Regular Roast there's just a queue out
the door all the time on the terrace working Styler
reinvesting in Wellington, going into where Creamfield's were, which is
pretty cool. Eighty eight years in Wellington Backhouse have got
a new big store down off Courtney Place, So look,
(31:43):
you know it's not all bad. There's some really good
stuff going on.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Well for me that I suppose this is a hot
on the way. I was really impressed with Dame Sophie
Pasco yesterday the way in which she announced her retirement.
I mean her achievements are phenomenal. I thought the dignity
and the grace, and the really positive way in which
she said this chapter's closed, I'm moving on to a
new one I thought was admirable. I thought was listen
to a number of other people in sports and public
(32:09):
life who don't quite know when the right time is
to quit.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Good on, why are you looking at me when you
say that?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Written in my line, I'm now going to talk about
the Notts and I'm also going to be looking at you.
But that doesn't mean anything. I'm just sick and tired
of what I think is going to be a trend
over the next two years that started this week, the
name calling and abuse between New Zealand first, the Maori
Party and the Greens. It's all as bad as each other,
and we've got two years to put up with us
as they gear up for the election. Just give us
(32:39):
a break.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Thank you both so much, Joe Cogglin and Peter Done.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B dissecting the week sublime and ridiculous.
Friday face off with quinovat Property Management a better rental
experience for all Call oh eight hundred. Quinovic starts Friday
(00:31):
face Off.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's our opportunity to look back at the week it was.
It's our opportunity to bring a couple of well known
Wellingtonians and to get dear view, to get dear ideas,
to get dear thoughts of what has happened in the
last week and come up with new new ideas. Joining
us today is former Minister in Ohario MP Peter Dunkom.
(00:54):
Morning Peter, Good morning Nick.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
You're well, I'm well famous.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You had a good break, had a good brain. You're
on holiday. You're on you're retired, so you've always on
a permanent holiday.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
But it's funny. You still get the thing about the
holiday scenes, do you?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Is it change?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's sure, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeh.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There you go. And Silver I Managing director Joe Coglan, Joe,
do you give a break? You've got so many kids,
you probably had All you did was look after kids
and grandkids.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
We did have a great break actually went to Tapo
and then up to the Corimandel and then up to
Mitty Mitty on the wild West coast of Northland, which
was pretty amazing with wild horses and all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Any of the kids come back from overseas.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yep, they did. Prior to that though, because we had
a family wedding, so had two family weddings on each
side of the family, so it was all go for us.
So yeah, a great time.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Good to get back to workh Yes. Prime Minister Christopher
Luxan has suggested National may run on a platform of
asset sales at the next election, and Finance Minister Nichola
Willis is already having a deep dive into what could
possibly be sold. Joe Cogland, is this a good idea?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Well, I think, you know, you've got to look at
all your options and try and be pragmatic about these things.
And I guess ask the question, you know, why would
you sell If it's an issue of sort of governance.
You can always transfer assets to another entity. I go,
you know, the super fund or something like that to
get those investments to perform better. But I think you know,
when you are selling anything, you need to have a
(02:22):
clear purpose and need to really think through the benefit
of that and be thoughtful and analytical and strategic and
not ideological. So I guess, you know, just look at
the risk in return and the capital required relative to
what the benefits might be for selling those assets, and
if it stecks up as a good idea, then I
go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Peter Dunn, can you think back, I mean when you've
been in politic do you mean in all your life
think back to when a time when we needed to
sell stuff? Do we need to sell stuff now? And
what have we got to sell?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well about two points. I don't think we need to
be selling stuff now for the reason that Sir John
keemad the other day, there's not much left to sell.
It's going to raise a lot of value. There was
a time previously, in the later eight early nineties when
the government had taken on historically a lot of ill
performing companies had been sort of picked up by the
government's blanket if you like, to be looked after, and
(03:15):
they didn't do any better under government control. You know,
we had a tourism agency, we had printing works, we
had all sorts of things government print, Yeah, they would.
The Crown divested itself of those, with mixed results. I
have to say some went quite well, some went pretty poorly.
I mean the government then had to buy back rollways
and airways a decade later because they were in danger
of collapse. Altogether, I think the real issue here, and
(03:37):
Joe touched on it, and I think Nicola Willis did
the other day as well. It's not actually necessarily about
divesting ownership. It's about improving performance. What's the best way
of improving performance in the Crown's assets. I just wrote
a piece this morning about housing and how I think
this huge scope for a better approach to the provision
(03:58):
of public housing than there is at the moment, without
actually selling the stock, but certainly improving the management, bringing
in more private sector property management schools, et cetera, et cetera.
And I think are you talking state housing? Basically I'm
talking about state housing and I'm talking about council housing.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, there shouldn't be a separation exet between.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
There's seventy two thousand state houses fourteen thousand council houses
around the country, but them under one heading. I'm a
great fan for the GJ gardeners and all these companies
that are on TV every night telling you they can
build you the home of their dreams, utilizing their professional
skills in running and designing the future States housing system. Now,
it's not a fanciful idea because it's what the labor
(04:37):
government did in the nineteen thirties when they got fletchers
and to build the first center of state houses. Anyway,
So let's just have that sort of thing. And I
think that's far more relevant than the privatization debate.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, And I mean you've got to remember that those
kind of air sets like Housing New Zealand or whatever,
you know, has sold houses over the years all the
time to reconfigured its portfolio. It's upgraded, it's sold, it's
moved on, it's bought better stock, you know, all of
that kind of thing. So things shift around. So I
think this sort of ideology of selling or not selling
is not that helpful. And whatever you do, you don't
(05:09):
want to be doing things sort of for a quick
sugar hit. I mean, you know, thinking about Wellington's car parks,
you know, would have been quite good probably if they
hadn't all been sold a while ago. Yes, I think
case By case basis is the way to go and
look at who can best managed these assets and how
we can get the most out of them.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I see, I love your idea too, P. But I
mean the whole thing we're encompassing a little bit more
but Kiwi Bank, right, So we give Kiwi Bank more money.
We help fund those houses, those state houses to people
that actually will make them their own. It will make
them better people when they own their own homes and
they've got something to look after. Makes it The whole
(05:47):
thing works, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
But I go further. You look at the other big
building assets that the Crown's got, schools and hospitals. Now
I'm not talking about privatizing the services at all, but
I am saying we need a better system for managing
those assets. You know, schools that are empty for large
tracks of the in different maintenance programs, schools can't meet them.
(06:09):
You know, there are all sorts of things. I think
went doing an even hospital as a classic example, and
I think we could adopt a much more business like
approach to the management of the assets. I'm not talking
about the delivery of the services, but the physical assets
in which those services are provided, which would return a
better amount to the government each year.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You like it? Do you agree with it? Jo?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Definitely?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
YEA Friday face off with Peter Dunn and Joe Coglan,
the government has revealed a visa change for things that
they're calling if they're calling it a digital nomad's allowing
people visitors to come into New Zealand and stay here.
I think it's up to nine months and work remotely
for offshore companies. I mean, firstly, I love the idea
of being able to have a job where you could
(06:53):
earn money by working anywhere in the world. I know
a couple of people. I know a very high flying
American that lives in Willington, lives down the road from me,
that looks after high end recruitment for an American company.
Doesn't have to ever be there. Is it all from
his computer and everything? Joe COGNI, is this a good
idea and is it going to actually, you know, help
(07:13):
us as much as what the Finance Minister believes it will.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, you know, I think it's a good idea, but
it's not like a new idea. You know, lots of
other countries do this, and so I guess we're just
now putting ourselves in the market for the people that
might have gone to Croatia or Costa Rica or Indonesia
or Greece or Malta or wherever else. You can already
get one of these visas. So it's not like it's
a whole new, new innovative concept really, And I think
(07:39):
you know there was that case, wasn't there of speed God,
I'm probably going to get the name wrong now. The
YouTube bloggo us YouTube blogger guy who came out and
you know, he's got thirty million or thirty five million
followers or something like that, and it was like speak yeah,
busily streaming all his videos and making all this money.
And then you know, Immigration got onto him and said
(08:02):
you're working, said you're working from New Zealand data da
you know, get said home. Whatever happens, he goes home,
and you know, then all of a sudden all his
comies negative about New Zealand, and you.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Know, so actually get home.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
I don't know, I don't think I was seen home.
But he couldn't work here like he was to do
it anyway, The point was that he made what turned
into what should have been positive, you know, videos about
New Zealand turned into getting a whole lot of negative feedback,
you know, and for other reasons as well. But so
I think if these people are going to come, we've
got to look after them.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
It makes sense that you know, we're in the you know,
modern day. I mean, my kids come from New York.
They two of them work for Uber, big tech company.
They can come and work you know, at home, and
you know, I'd be very happy if they came from.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But did they work when they came out and holiday?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah they did.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
But I mean, obviously the New Zealander is but yeah,
it's totally possible for people to do it, so they
should be allowed to do it, and you know, hopefully
it'll be good for good for the economy.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's not a big deal though, Peter, I don't think.
I don't disagree with I think it's quite a sensible move.
But I'm not sure is going to be the big
item that is being portrayed as the only little nigga
I've got about it, and it's a very small one.
Is it's the sort of the bolt whole concept, you
know that there are a lot of said after the
(09:20):
American and Ectrian American people looking to escape to New
Zealand to avoid the excesses of Trumpism. You've got a
great little country down here enough to come and live there.
That's my only concern that we get a lot of
people who see this as a way of getting backdoor
residents in New Zealand longer term. And I just was
thinking this morning about the whole experience we had some
(09:41):
years ago. You may recall with Peter Teel who was
granted citizenship of New Zealand. It'd only been to the
country a couple of times, but he had property and
stuff like that. Now, I don't find that sort of
thing particularly desirable, and I think we've just got to
be a wee bit careful that we don't end up
opening the door to this. But in the meantime, people
coming here for nine months, being able to work while
(10:02):
they're here, presuming that have to be some sort of
tax arrangement about means.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I'll probably paid their tax in America they come from.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
We won't cut the ticket, make sure we don't have
the idea on their backs. But fine, And it might
be a good way of encouraging people to come back
as visitors in their own right.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
But it does make you think about, you know, what
else could we be doing. And I mean, I look
at the Chinese tourism situation. So I just took a
group to China end of last year, ten young people,
and you know we didn't have to get a visa
fifteen day visa three amazing, Like just was so easy.
And then I think it's by the time you get
documents translated and do everything else for them to come
(10:40):
the other way, you know, it's about five hundred dollars.
So I mean, it doesn't really seem fear, does it.
And that's a huge, huge tourism that you know, we
could be attracting.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So I don't know, why are we not opening it
up and making it like some hell of a lot easier.
We've just put up all the prices that make it
less desirable, Peter done. Why are we not saying, you know,
apart from this digital nomad stuff, saying we just want
you to come?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And yeah, look, I think there's been an element for
too long of seeing visitors to New Zealand as potential
cash cows. You know, it's the same way again. We
could argue this separately and probably not disagree that it's
a good idea, but the idea of charging overseas visitors
to visit national parks, for instance, which we've done, but
(11:25):
it's all because they've got money and we could take
it off them. Now, that's fine up to a point,
but I think in some cases, and the sort of
instance Joe's talking about, you know, the bureaucracy has gone
too far. We should have people able to come here
for a short term visit, come and get out, enjoy
what they want to enjoy while they're in New Zealand
and go home with positive memories.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah, and just make sure that you know that, yeah,
they have a good experience.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I want to move on to speed limits. A couple
of days ago we got the announcement that came out
that thirty eight sections of road around the country will
have their speed limits reverted to what they were before
the previous government reduced them. A lot of them were
in our area and the wire wrapper, Joe, your four
lanes to the planes got lifted back to seventy You'll
be very placed. You'll be very pleased about that they have.
They haven't changed the street name to Joe Conglan Drive yet, oh,
(12:15):
but one day they will. Is this a smart idea, Joe,
or what do you when you first read this, what
do you think? Like you come a little bit close
to your mind?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, look, I mean I was watching the news last night.
Lots of people are very happy about those speeds speed
limits being reversed, and that's all good, But I don't know.
One of the things that it's a bit annoying is,
you know, the cost of just signage and wasteful cost
that goes into a change like that. You know that
all adds up across the country again for local government
(12:46):
and lots of cases, and what a pity, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So so are you for the idea of them speeding
them up?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Look, I'm fine on most of the roads. I mean,
if there are a couple of roads that really, you know,
the speeds shouldn't be lifted on, then I think that
probably that'll come through. There's another consultation on it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Isn't there another forty nine different ones?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yeah, you know, that'll that'll come out in the wash,
hopefully and hopefully, you know, we'll get the right outcome.
But I do feel that some of the you know,
some of the roads, probably it wasn't necessary to reduce
the speeds. Having said that. You know, when I think
about Wellington as a whole, I do remember being on
the council and one of the ideas at the time
(13:25):
was to reduce speed limits pretty much across the city
to forty and you know, we all thought that was
not a great idea necessarily, but maybe if we had
been more open to some of that, we wouldn't have
had to have the over engineering of all of the
cycle ways and everything else that we have had. So
it's sort of an interesting conundrum. But yeah, they've done
(13:45):
it now, so I just think it, you know, we
move on. I'd rather that the Minister of Transport was
focusing on other things, building tunnels.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And getting it started. Yeah, right, what are you thinking people.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, I think it's horses, of course. I think some
roads the speed limits were reduced to artificially low. In
other cases you'd probably want to keep them low or
reduce And I think that the idea of a sort
of a blanket reduction as the way this has been presented,
as we're sort of overturning everything that went before, I
think is unwise.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I'm just do you think they're just doing it for
the sake of doing it? In some cases.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I think it's an element of that. But here's the thing.
I just noted that in Ireland, from the seventh to February,
following a Road Safety Authority report, rural roads will be
reduced from eighty k to sixty, urban roads will be
down to thirty. National secondary roads will go down from
one hundred to eighty. And why they're doing this They
want a curb road deaths. And you know, you think
(14:40):
of our road toll in New Zealand. What was the
road toll in Ireland nineteen and twenty twenty four similar
sized population one hundred and seventy four people?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What was our howses?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Ours was well over two hundred.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, but it was the lowest lost over I mean,
just put that into eighty four. I'm getting to do so,
just put.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That into some sort of context. It's about safety and
it's about doing the right thing for the right roads.
I mean, I think that the extension on the Covered
Expressway and potentially in time transmission Gully to one hundred
and ten and somebody the Hamilton one that's worked well,
there haven't been incidents there on other road should probably
run a bit more circumstanced.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I mean, if you really want to put a flag
up and say a success as Transmission Gully. I mean,
touch would touch my brain, touch anything. There's not been
a death since it opened. Now we're all well in
Tony and so we all know how many deaths it's
on that stretch of road. Beforehand, that was like, you know,
every time you drove down there was a new white cross,
wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
But I mean the reality is most of our a
lot of our roads are not fit for purpose. And
you know, once you get past Tapo and you know
you're getting up to Auckland, it's absolutely fantastic. I mean,
we're doing better now we've got Transmission Gully. We've got
these four lanes. You know that's great. But really, you
drive around a lot of New Zealand and you just think,
holy heck, you know these these roads are not good.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You just you say, you no, wonder every time we
turn TV on we see an accident of potholes and
windy roads. I'm going to put this out there. I'm
going to say thanks to the Childs again for the
fireworks tomorrow. Because it's not been paid for by the
city council. It's been paid by a private enterprise business
that said, you know that they want to support the
city and celebrate the Chinese year. Joe, you're nodding your
(16:22):
head that. I mean, that's a good thing. Isn't it
the week?
Speaker 4 (16:24):
That's fantastic And actually we should really be saying Happy
New Year of the snake.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's a snake, is it?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Apparently? And you can say to your family and friends
shiny and hull. So I don't know how well it
was pronounced, but anyway, apparently you cared. So I think
that's great and that's wonderful that there will be a
wonderful celebration and.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Good to have fireworks. I mean, this is the sort
of thing that the council should be doing.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Peter.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
But isn't it great that private enterprise. You know, these
guys started by making burgers. I mean I remember the
I and Burger making burgers on Courty Place late at night.
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
No, it's good and it's good that that tom the weather,
it seems as it's going to behave so that it
can be a great display. And the idea that tens
of thousands people will line in the waterfront, I think
it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and it doesn't cost.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
No, we should be encouraging more of this and so
the enterprise instead of taking the grim view that this
is all frivolous stuff that we don't need. We do
need to be up lifted occasionally.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Right, Let's talk about woke banks. Shane Jones is on
the warpath criticizing banks climate policies which have seen some
banks calling and loans for the likes of petrol stations
and mining companies. B and Z article this morning b
and Z tells coal miner will shut the accounts by
two thousand and thirty. Shane Jones wants some intervention here,
(17:42):
Peter Dunne, Are we starting to get into a wo
a wokeness that's even driving me not?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I always shudder when I hear Saint Shane Jones speak
because there's often a lot of rhetoric and very little substance.
But I think there is a point here, and it
is dangerous that banks and other business institutions are sort
of prejudging what the policy outcome should be. If economic
conditions change such that mining or running petrol stations or
(18:13):
whatever are not profitable businesses and the way they used
to be, then I think it's a different story for
the banks to say, well, maybe that you know, you're
not the best people to be lending money.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
To realistically, this is not profit lot.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
No, but making the judgment first that this is something
we disapprove of. I mean, where do you stop. We
disapprove of fast food manufacturers, we disapprove of you know,
you knowed any set of other activities, and we're going
to stop making finance available to them. I think there's
a very dangerous point here.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, Joe, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I mean, I just think, you know, I mean a
lot of I mean, sentiment has changed, isn't it. You know,
sort of in the back In twenty twenty one, you know,
there was the UN Climate someone in Glasgow and banks
signed up to a pledge to drive emissions to net zero.
So fast forward to twenty twenty five and the world's
a different place, lill different thinking, and some of the
(19:07):
banks now that signed up to that and now leaving.
So I guess the thing is that there's just this
you know, backlash really against ESG and inclusion if it's
made by sort of businesses to achieve social aims, and
I mean, you know it's.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
But should it be up to a bank to make
that decision.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Well, I mean, they have to do what their bosses
tell them. And if they're you know, foreign owned and
they've signed up for some accord you know, and you
know some other part of the world, then well the
banks here don't really have much choice. So that's that's
just how that rolls. But but you know, I mean
I think it's a bigger picture really of things like
you know, capital flows and where is the money coming from,
(19:46):
and you know, banking competition and regulation, and you know,
you've just got to sort of look at, you know,
how can we get these businesses supported and being able
to get the loans they need to be productive and
to grow the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Can realistically Peter done the government do anything.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I think the government can see the overall policy and
and the announcements today about encouraging more mining a part
of that. Now, whatever your view on them, they are
setting a direction they want to pursue that should guide
some of the decisions that banks and others might make
in response to that. If the government's said to be
take the complete flip side that we're going to ban
all mining immediately, We're going to ban all use of
(20:27):
fossil fuels immediately or within a short pace of time.
That would obviously have an impact as well. But I
think really, you know, it's for the governments of the
world to set the overall environment and for the financial
institutions to work within that to support whatever the industries
are that are seeking support. The danger is if people
(20:49):
start to go and think, you know, we'll just push
the policy out here because it suits us to do so.
I think that's where you get into trouble and distortions.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Creeping Joe, isn't it more proof that we need Kiwi
Bank to be a lot more of a game player
than they are at the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Well, I mean that'll be good because you know, there'll
just be more capital flowing around if they can get
more more capital coming through, so that that's all good.
But I mean I think at the end of the day,
I mean, banks are there to make profit, and you
know they're like to be they should be just looking
at their clients on a case by case basis, so
they're not ending on a case by case space as well.
That's because they have you know, policy settings and directions
(21:26):
that come from on high. So yeah, that's the that's
the quandary.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Peter, I'll come to you on that one. Do you
think that by having Kiwibank a more dominant factor in
the marketplace and not have these policies of where they
whether they will or not open a bank account for you,
I don't make a difference.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It would have an influence, but I'm not sure that
the difference will be substantial because Kiwibank to compete with
the foreign banks in New Zealand would need a massive
capital boost. I think the government's open to the idea
of a greater capital injection to Qiwi Bank, but I'm
not sure it will be of the size that will
sort of put it right up there on a scale
the multinational banks.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
You don't think they could.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I just don't think that Mu's got the capacity to
fund there all.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Would you be open to outside you know, like a
Chinese bank.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Joining We already have these banks in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Ronnie, I'll assume another one. We're getting fund for the
funding aspect of Kiwi Bank, keep it as a government
owned thing.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I'm open to a very competitive banking sector where where
you know, those pressures help regulate behavior, and I think
that Kiwi Bank has a role to play, and that,
in fact, over the last twenty odd years, has played
a role. But it's just not big enough, that's the
point I'm making.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Or strong enough. Oh my gosh, I was just showing
off my tattoo to Peter Dunn and Joey Coglan. But
we'll talk about tattoo shortly. I want to talk about
Operation Trolley first, wrote a Police have arrested thirteen people
and seized forty five trolleys in a three day operation
this week, sparking criticism from departy Mari Go leader Rawi
(23:01):
Rawiri Watiti on the poor being targeted. Really gone at Joe,
what do you think about this? I mean, do we
really need Operation Trolley and do we need targeting these
poor people?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Well, you know, I was pretty shocked really to think
that it was three days of police time. I think
that's what it was, wasn't it. And you know, really,
if we need to just get all those trolleys back,
couldn't we just put some school kids that are on
detention out to the streets and perhaps they could gather
them up. I mean, it did seem ridiculous, But then
when I actually read the story, in more detail. You know, Look,
(23:39):
a lot of the people that have these trolleys clearly
have some complex mental health issues, and there are cases
of sort of you know, safety and whatnot, and the
police probably do need to become involved in those cases.
But yeah, I mean, I think it's good to do
something about that. Certainly, the mayor of Rhoda Rail was
(24:02):
very enthusiastic about it, and Tom McLay they much closer
to the X and they know what the problem is
up there. But honestly, I don't think police should buy
and large be returning trolleys unless they're full of you know,
contraband or something stole. Look, let's get the kids out
there undertention. Well yeah, I mean some of them look
pretty empty from the photos. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Peter Dunn, what did you first think when you read
Operation trop.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Look, I thought what on earth is this all about?
When I looked at it, and I thought this is
a bit of an overreaction. But what really annoyed me
about it wasn't the particulars of the police activity or
the numbers of trolleys being chased, but it was robbery
writing these comments that the poor were being intentionally targeted.
There seems to be an implicit attitude here that if
(24:47):
you are poor and deprived, things like not stealing property
from others, whether it be food or shopping trolleys or whatever,
doesn't apply to you. And that's the bit I found
a politician, a national politician, almost saying, well, leave off
these people because they're poor and deprived, the law doesn't
apply to them. I found that quite disturbing because it's
not the shopping trolleys, it's the next thing will be well,
(25:10):
the ram raids are only occurring because they're hungry, So
don't you know. Now, there are biggest social issues here
that need to be addressed, but I don't think one
of the ways of addressing them the saying, well, the
law doesn't apply to you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right. Have you any trouble with your Sky TV? Both
of you have Sky TV? Because we did a story
during the week based on my own personal story of
having a terrible time over the holidays of not being
able to get my Sky going. Then I find out
by doing having a chat about it on the show
that there's thousands of people around New Zealand getting really
(25:43):
bad service from Sky and they've got a bit of
a problem. TV wanted a story a couple of days ago.
I mean, it's just been a media crack up, or
not a crackup, a media golden point. It's been really
working for them, Joe Coglin, do you reckon Sky service
and Sky's up to what it used to be.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Well, look, I'm not a big user of Sky services,
to be honest, and in fact we downgraded subscription and now
we can only get I don't know, some sport or something.
But in fact we hardly watch any television over the
whole summer, apart from a bit of Australian Open and
a bit of sport. But well, I mean, you know
it'll come out in the wash win it. If they're
(26:21):
not providing a good enough service, they'll just lose subscribers
in their in their business will you know, be on
the downturn. So it's not been a big issue for me. Actually,
we just don't watch the same amount of TV that
we used to.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Since my Sky went off. You know, it changed my
whole viewing as well. Peter Dunn have you you're retired, Peter,
so you Sky is very important to as I thought.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I had a problem until yesterday because my Sky was
coming up with saying it was shutting down with a
big sign saying waiting for updates and when you're pushed
on the button, okay, nothing ever happened, And I thought
when I heard about this wider story, I thought, I'm
obviously part of the same thing. And then I decided, well,
I'll just have a go at rebooting it. In surprise, surprise,
(27:05):
downloaded the updates and everything's been perfect. So I don't
think I'm part of the problem. But what I do
think about this is we had someone come around before
Christmas who was updating our satellite for the switch to
the new one. I think the information from Sky about
what's going on, how people will be affected, what they
need to do, has been extraordinarily poor or non existent.
(27:26):
People are being left literally in the dark, and you
are concerned about what's going on, they don't know. I
think that the sort of casual observation idea the existing
satellite's wearing out more quickly than we thought was almost
like a throwaway line. Subscribers need to be given this information,
and they need to be given clear steps if there
(27:47):
are any, that they can take to get over it.
Otherwise they'll vote with their feet absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Another story that we did this week that Gaya gathered
a little bit of attention to us was tattoos. Now,
we are all of a group of people that probably
never ever dreamed of having a tattoo or thought about
having a tattoo. Joe Coglan, is it acceptable now someone
came to work for you and they walked in and
they had tattoos on their necks and their fingers and
(28:13):
their hands. What would what would your first indication? What
would your first thought be? Stop laughing?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
My first thought now is are my kids listening to this?
Because they will be laughing. It's kind of well known
in my household that I'm not a big fan myself
of tattoos. Actually, that's just the reality. And it's not
that I don't necessarily like them. It's just that I
feel like they are quite a permanent fixture, and you sad,
(28:41):
like my mother, you know, if you could just if
you could have them for a while and then and
then get rid of them, you know, like you can
you know, you paint your nails and you get sick
of it, and you know you can you can change
it up or your look, you know. Then I think
that would be different so I just worry sometimes that people,
you know, it's a very long term thing, a tattoo,
and it's obviously a very personal choice, and I think
(29:02):
it is pretty acceptable now. I mean a lot of
people have tattoos.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
All for the world.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
You know, we've just been to an Ibetha it recently,
and you know there's no shortage I think there. So
I mean I would, I mean, I would never, you know,
I mean, I think it's just each to their own really,
but you know, for me personally, TETs are not the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Peter Dunn. And I'm going to come back to you
if I've got a chance, because I want to ask
you to the two views.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I quite like I'm getting to like the full pace
Molko that you know, the traditional Maori Pacific Island tattoos
you're seeing, they're genuine. What I'm still struggling to accept
is the other forms of artwork that people are parading
around the place, because I don't think they've got the
same genuine cultural base. And I take Joe's point about
the long term nature, but as a society we're probably
(29:48):
becoming more tolerant, if not getting used to them. We're
seeing them a bit more and probably just a bit
more tolerant about the idea. But I'm sure deep down
we're still a bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Joe, one of your daughter's boyfriend, I've got to be
very very quick. So I mean, told to go to
an air break, turned up with her new boyfriend and
he's got tats all over his neck and everything. Would
you be quietly whispering in her air that's a note?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
No, of course I wouldn't. I mean, if she thought
he was great, you know, I'd absolutely one hundred percent
be giving him a chance, and I'd be basing my
decisions on a lot of other things apart from that,
the Friday faceidet.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Okay, we're only got a couple of minutes's going to
be quick, Come on, and who's going to Who wants
to go first? Go? Joe?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You go?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
All right, Well I'm going to start with the knots
because i want to finish on a positive note. I
think just you know, the ongoing sort of wasteful spending
that you see around the traps, and you know, I'm
not looking forward to the one hundred and fifty million
that's going to go down the Google, at least on
lemblin Key went through the town belt the other day
and there was a little bridge being built in Otarry
Bush and I thought, great to have that bridge, but
(30:56):
honestly it looked like it could take a head of
elephants and I thought, really it needs to take one
runner at a time, probably a bit overspect the hots
actually the town about Oriental Bay. Been spending a lot
of time in there doing some running and stuff in
swimming in Oriental Bay. So lucky to have Orangele Bay.
It is amazing, so lucky to have just so many
(31:19):
trails all around the place that we can go and enjoy.
And just to finish off a few cool businesses actually
in Wellington, like Regular Roast there's just a queue out
the door all the time on the terrace working Styler
reinvesting in Wellington, going into where Creamfield's were, which is
pretty cool. Eighty eight years in Wellington Backhouse have got
a new big store down off Courtney Place, So look,
(31:43):
you know it's not all bad. There's some really good
stuff going on.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Well for me that I suppose this is a hot
on the way. I was really impressed with Dame Sophie
Pasco yesterday the way in which she announced her retirement.
I mean her achievements are phenomenal. I thought the dignity
and the grace, and the really positive way in which
she said this chapter's closed, I'm moving on to a
new one I thought was admirable. I thought was listen
to a number of other people in sports and public
(32:09):
life who don't quite know when the right time is
to quit.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Good on, why are you looking at me when you
say that?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Written in my line, I'm now going to talk about
the Notts and I'm also going to be looking at you.
But that doesn't mean anything. I'm just sick and tired
of what I think is going to be a trend
over the next two years that started this week, the
name calling and abuse between New Zealand first, the Maori
Party and the Greens. It's all as bad as each other,
and we've got two years to put up with us
as they gear up for the election. Just give us
(32:39):
a break.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Thank you both so much, Joe Cogglin and Peter Done.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, Listen live
to news Talks It'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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