March 19, 2025 • 22 mins
Nick was joined by National's MP for the Wairarapa Mike Butterick and Labour's Police spokesperson Ginny Andersen for Politics Thursday.
They discussed the gross domestic product (GDP) rise of 0.7% in the December 2024 quarter, following a 1.1% decrease in the September 2024 quarter.
They also looked at Health Minister Simeon Brown's spat with public health workers, the Prime Minister's trip to India, a 12% rise in Jobseeker benefit numbers and ACT's plans to enter candidates in local body elections this year.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's politics Thursday. Joining us today we have National MP
for the Wire Wrapper, Mike Butterick, Good morning, Mike. Are
you good? Thank you yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah? Good, thank you good.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And Labor spokesperson Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Morning, Jinny, how would good morning?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Nice to have you back. And I haven't seen you
for a while. You've been hiding from us.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I thought I better show my face.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah yeah, you thought, oh well, there's no parliament on here.
I've got I probably could come along and turn up
to the show and have a chat. Keep it, keep
my profile out there. Right. Just start with the GDP figure.
You would have heard it. It's gone up one point
one percent. We're all a little bit excited. Sorry, it
grew by zero point seven percent. Obviously contracted down before
(00:58):
one point one percent and one percent in the previous
two quarters, but we grew by zero point seven percent. Jenny,
what did you make of it?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Well, it's good, it's an improvement, and people desperately want
some hope right now, but it doesn't change the fact
that people are still struggling. People are doing it really hard.
I was out talking to people in the community yesterday,
and we know that there's still a lot of people unemployed,
looking for work and very much struggling to be able
to pay for those food bills, rent bells, mortgage payments.
(01:27):
So yep, it's some relief, but it doesn't stop the
fact that can I just.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Ask you how I mean? We had a business panel
on Monday, a couple of very very successful people in
the studio, and they were saying how tough it was,
and you know, the economy hasn't grown and it's quite tough.
How tough really is it out there in the marketplace?
I mean, what are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When you talk about people or businesses?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I want to talk about people, because people create businesses.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Then I met a woman yesterday who was who had
a severe disability and required care and her services have
been cut and so her eighty three year old father
has to shower her once a week because she doesn't
get support services. But I met two older people who
both have had their surgeries canceled, being told that they're
(02:12):
no longer urgent. They believe it's because they're over eighty.
They're not being prioritized. And we continually see people being
taken out of emergency housing, that the housing in the
hut is a real problem. They have a thirteen week
stand down period if they cause their own tendency to
be terminated. But that includes things like family violence. So
people have been kicked out of social housing for family
(02:34):
violence and then having a thirteen week stand down period.
So the social services in the cut and dealing with
these people in the hut who have got nowhere else
to go are the most vulnerable. That's where it's hurting
people the most in New Zealand right now, Mike.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But I mean this comes after the consumer confidence index
took a tumble with uncertainty in the local and global outlook.
Wellington had the worst consumer confidence in the country. How
close are we actually now we hear this is a
good result. I mean, how close are we to getting
things right? I mean, when are they going to come right?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I guess. Look, it's good news, right, and it's a
it's a baby smeet step small step in the right direction.
But you know it's the first rise in two years,
and you know there is there are a lot of
cream shoots, and particularly in the in the wider Apple electorate.
You know, that's a large rural provincial area of New Zealand.
You know there's some there's a there's a lot of
confidence starting to sneak in there, and you know, the
(03:28):
conversations are very different than what they were six months
twelve months ago. Yeah, so I think I think it's
great news and it just shows that we're heading in
the right direction.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But when you're walking down the streets, if you're going
through Masterton or going through Continental Great Town, do you
actually feel it? Because you can feel that stuff, can't you.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, look you can. And I go in and call
in a lot of businesses and just ask them how
they're going, how they're feeling, and you know one to
ten one being you know, not very confident, ten going gangbusters,
And you know there's there's quite a bit of quiet
optimism there now. And you know, a lot of the
support businesses, you know, for the rule sector, you know
(04:07):
they're seen, you know, was tire kicking six months ago,
it's seen a lot of that's leading into sales now.
So yeah, I've certainly seen a bit of a positive swing.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I do think though, Nick, and I think you know
this as well through your hospitality background, that Wellington has
felt really sharply, particularly over the last six to twelve months,
that when you have a construction sector folding with thirteen
thousand out of there, and the public service on top
of that with significant cuts. We know that there's just
fewer people around the Wellington area with money in their pockets.
(04:40):
And it's shops, small businesses, restaurants, cafes, all of those
ones feel that punch because people are just looking for
any opportunity they can to save money and it's those
extra things that suffer the most at a time like that.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, I spoke to someone Mike on you know,
Tuesday night was Monday night was Saint Patrick's night. Tuesday
night was a day after Saint Patrick's. That's traditionally a
little bit quieter. I spoke to a local restaurant here
yesterday and he said that on Tuesday when Tuesday night, sorry,
I'm going to get my nights right. Tuesday night he
(05:13):
spent half an hour at his front door of his
place that's normally very busy, and never saw a single person.
We are still in tough times, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh, look absolutely, and I don't think anyone would dispute that.
But I think the point being is you know, we're
starting to come out of it. And I would make
the observation too, as you know, I think the recovery
will a lot of it will be led by the
primary sector. We've got four and a half billion extra
coming in from the dairy sector, one point two billion
extra coming in fro sheet and BF sector. The Eppel
(05:43):
and Pears have actually just surpassed the billion dollar export
revenue for the first time ever. And then all start
filtering through into our towns and then ultimately all start
filtering into our cities too. But it does take time.
There's no it's never going to be an instant fixed
nack jinny.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I've got to ask you because I was a little
bit confused hearing you with Mike Coscin yesterday over charter
skills labor, which I thought was pretty impressive. Turned around
and said, we're not going to change things if we
get back into Parliament, We're going to go with what's said.
We're not going to go through this whole period of
time of changing things and changing things back. But I
got very confused. What's the story with charter schools? Are
(06:19):
you going to change them back if you get become
part of government next election or are you going to
close them?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
We have been really clear that charter schools are something
that we don't support. So well. Yes, on big infrastructure
and PPP, we've been clear and said that if something's
in the ground and it's working well, we're not going
to unearth it like the government did with a construction
sector and that resulted in thirteen thousand workers leaving the country.
But with charter schools, we don't like those fundamentally and
(06:47):
we have said that we won't keep those them.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Sorry, I'm still confused because you know I and I
had your leader in the studio looked to my eye
two weeks ago. He said that, he looked at me
and he said, this is not going to happen. We
are going to go with the situation that whatever the
situation we're handed, we're going to go with it. To
be chopping and changing, We're going to go for it.
Now you're chopping and changing.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
With big infrastructure projects like roading in those big builds
that take decades to do, we have said and sent
MPs to that forum on the PPPs and the Infrastructure
Investment Summit, we will continue projects if they're in the ground.
And they're working well for Kiwis. We're getting good wages,
we're getting good outcomes for our people. But on the
separate issue of charter schools, which are small independent private schools,
(07:33):
we do not support charter schools, so they're gone if.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We vote for you and Labour get in.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Ares the majority part of the new fact that we
don't support charter schools in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
What do you make of that, Mike? I mean, were you,
like me, thought that they weren't going to change the stuff?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm just as confused as you.
And you know, we've had Barbara Edmonds say they don't
want public private partnerships for the housing, so I mean,
keep me Sayer fund and come to the government and said, hey, lot,
we're really keen on building some social housing. I mean,
as later are going to oppose that. I mean that
they're a bit like a cat on hot bricks. They're
jumping all over the show.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, I think Mike's the one is getting confused because
charter schools are quite different from the investment summit that
you just attend, what everyone attended. Those are for those
significant big builds like Transmission Gully, like hospitals like massive builds.
So if we're wanting long term investment and development New Zealand,
if we flick back and forwards every three years, then
(08:29):
we'll never get progress as a country. And so we've
committed to making sure those big projects, if they're going
well and serving our people well, we will continue. But
we do not support small, independent private schools when we
should be investing in state education, good quality schools that
give kids who are hungry good quality meals, not the
slop they're being served up now by your government.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Mike, I want to start with you on this one.
The Health Minister sim And Brown is fired back at
public health servants, wanting them to focus on the basics
rather than using their resources to fight causes like fizzy
drinks stalled Fizzy Drinks and Palmerstan North and stalls Nelson
and McDonald's and Wanica. Health workers are saying that the
government's overreaching on their on their expertise and they are
(09:14):
being suppressed. What are you thought your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, I mean, you know, should they be in based
in a war over McDonald's and Wannaker or should they
just step out of there and let the people want
to decide whether they want and you know, I guess
look at the end of the day, what what what's
their purpose and they should be focusing on where the immunization,
providing national level advice, those core things, because that's that's
actually what their role is.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, Genny, I have an issue with us too. Do
public health officer officials really have the wrong priorities when
they are doing that sort of stuff like going to
putting a paper in for the for the Palmerston North
City Council about not having fizzy drinks in their stadiums,
going down and supporting the local Wonica people about not
having a McDonald's there. Is that their their priorities. Should
(09:58):
they be doing that?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Well, I guess it comes down to those decision makers
and it's I think it's an issue for this government
too that we often hear of minister's boasting they just
don't take advice they get there their reckons from life experience.
I've always been of the view that good advice is great.
You need all sources. You need it from private, from public,
from health and then it's for those decision makers to
(10:20):
make the right call. But of course they need good
information before them. In order to be able to make
an informed decision for the benefit of everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But getting involved in the nitty gritty at a council
level or a local level. Should that be Health New
Zealand's responsibility.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, that's the council. The council chooses to take advice
if they're getting some help.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
No, no, no, hold hold on, let's let's let's signal
in on the McDonald's and Wonica. They did it themselves.
Health New Zealand made enough obsen you know, you know,
it came down, went hard at them, said they didn't
want it. It was their objection, no one else's.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Right, I will, I need to read the detail of
that story. I thought it was that the council had
had advice that they were looking at in terms of
deciding where to grant someone a permit or not. So
you were saying that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
They went in they were part of the objection. We're
part of the objection. Have I got that wrong, Mike, No.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
That's great, that's right. And again you stay in their wheelhouse,
stay in the lane. They should be focused on immunization campaigns,
national level advice, not making detailed submissions over whether they
should there shouldn't be a McDonald's and Wonica for goodness sake,
or putting.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A paper together for the Parmeston North City Council to
stop them selling fizzy drinks at their venues. Exactly is
that what Health New Zealand should be doing either of you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
No? Absolutely not No, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Still kind of think that if they're giving advice that's
good health advice, why would you not want to know that?
And then they make the call whether they like it
or not. I mean, they're not forcing the council to
make a decision. They're providing them with some health advice
and it's in every right for the council to go.
Thanks for your views, but we're not going to take
more on board.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
But what surely that would be better spent that money
spent with their advice to be spent on actual getting
people into hospitals and getting operations.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Would be I think so, yeah, I would agree with
you in that right.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Thank you, thank you. We've got somewhere with politics Thursday
with Mike Butterick and Ginny Anderson. Jobs seeker benefit numbers
rose by twelve percent between February twenty four and February
twenty twenty four. In February this year. Ginny, you're the
labor spokesperson for jobs and incomes. What did you make
of this twenty two thousand extra now the numbers up
(12:25):
to two hundred and ten thousand people.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, it's really concerning, and it's concerning when you see
whole areas one work, for example, it be callahen innovation.
There's a whole lot of jobs gone out of the air,
which seems crazy for Wellington region in terms of how
much jobs those would mean to our economy. And then
you see instances where you had Kinleith closing with a
(12:48):
whole bunch of manufacturing jobs have really suffered as well
with the downturn. So it is a real worry that
not only are we losing jobs more, but it's some
of those really skilled, high wage jobs that are going
and we need a plan in place to think about
how we're training people but enabling those jobs which pay
(13:09):
higher wages. And that's good for families because you get
more in your pocket, more on the table, but it's
also good for the economy when you're generating those jobs
that are bigger and earn more for our country.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Mike, this is actually almost embarrassing for your government, because
remember your plan was, what was it, fifty thousand less
on the less than five years. Wasn't that the goal?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It was, yep, yep, it was over six years, I think, but.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Still fifty thousand up and we've gone fifty thousand down
and we got twenty two thousand up in one year.
We're hitting in the direction, buddy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
But look that we always knew that that was going
to happen. And you know that the forecast for the
number of people on job seeker pre election, we're pretty
much being on that was where labor was in government.
We're pretty much being on the where the forecast was.
So it shouldn't really be any great surprise, not saying
that's straight for anybody at all, but you know, there's
(14:08):
there's some of these green shoots. There is starting to
we're starting to see a few people to stop using.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That green shoots when you're talking about unemployment when it
droves down that much, Come on, there's no shook.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
The point being is, you know those forecasts well where
we are, they were actually pretty much being on with
the forecasts from officials when Labor was in government, So
it shouldn't be any great supplies to anybody you know,
and it is tough, right, and it's they're not great numbers,
but they were pretty much where they were forecast to be.
But there are and I won't use the term, but
there are opportunities starting to come up now, which you
(14:42):
know last month, I think we saw six and a
half thousand people come off job seeker benefit in the work.
So it is happening. But you know, we've talked about
it at the start of the show. There's no magic,
but it's not going to happen overnight. I think it is.
We're certainly hitting in a different direction.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Okay. Christopher Luxan, the Prime Minister, will soon wrap up
his week long trip to India. He's led ministers and
senior business leaders on a trip and the two countries
will now start negotiating on a free trade agreement. This
is a very big entourage, as big as I can remember,
two planeloads. It's a big entourage, costing us a lot
(15:18):
of money. Ginny, has this trip been a success in
your eyes?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
When we find out if Deiry is included in that
free trade agreement? So if light's great, you know, shaking hands,
photo opportunities, playing cricket, All those things are lovely, but
what we really need to know is is dairy included
in that free trade agreement?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well it's not going to be, is it.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, what's the point of it then, because I can't
see because that's the critical factor that we want to know.
And that was always the issue right back when John
Key was negotiating, is that that was a market We
wanted to have an agreement that included deary and so
we're waiting to see that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Now. I've been told bike, and I'm not going to
be quoted on this, but I've been told that the
Indian population of Auckland is ten percent, right, so that's
a very big still going to take two more years
before we can get an airline to fly direct from
Auckland to India. Surely that would be something that would
be done a lot quicker than that. Now long do
you really think this trade deal is going to take?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Look at I mean, there's real crystal ball stuff. But
in terms of look, I think it's.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Said ninety days. He's put a time on it as well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I'll tell you what. Let's focus on the positive stuff here.
I mean, it's the fifth biggest economy in the world.
I've got one point four billion people, We're an exporting nation,
We're really good at growing stuff, and I think it's
a great success story. And you look at you know,
we've been got deals with Vietnam, UAE, GCC. Those are
the opportunities they're going to create, opportunities in all New
(16:47):
Zealand is going to benefit. I think it's a fantastic
story and it's all on the back of a lot
of hard work, you know, multiple trips from our minister
over there and developing those relationships and so there will
be huge opportunities. I can't preent how long it may take,
but you know, the conversations are great, the relationships are great,
and you know that's going to go a long way
(17:08):
to helping double our aspirations. You know, we've got aspirations
to double our export value within ten years. That's going
to go a long way to contributing to that, and
of course all New Zealanders benefits. So what I's like
about it, I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Mike. There's been a lot of talk about the numbers,
the sheer numbers of Indian people moving to New Zealand.
Has this been including any of the conversations because I
mean that's something that's probably a bit of a concern
just on a numbers basis, if we're already ten percent
of the population of Auckland.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, I couldn't comment on whether that's been part of
the conversations or not look at all, but you know,
we're a very diverse society there, multicultural society, and you
know we welcome people from that can come and contribute
to our country.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So we want dary if we're going to make some
concessions in and around education and training numbers. That's the
biggest migrant group we've had in New Zealand in the
past months has been from India and it's been I
think fifty thousand in one year. And so we need
to just make sure that if we're making additional concessions
(18:17):
for immigration, that there's economic benefits in it for New Zealand,
and that would include dairy. The other thing to keep
in mind. The other thing to keep in mind, and
this has kind of been under the radar. It's this
nuclear agreement that they're very keen on getting us agreeing.
So it does appear that Luxon might be up for
trading that off the New Zealand's that the Nuclear Suppliers Group,
(18:40):
which is enabling India to have more nuclear capability. If
New Zealand supports that in exchange for dairy, that'll be
something to keep your eyes on.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, we'll keep our eyes on that. A leader David
Seymour says local body body teics needs a shake up
and they will support candidates and this year's local body election, Ginny.
Something that really frustrates me is why do we have
to have party politics and local city councils. I don't
think we need it. What are your your own personal
(19:08):
thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Look I have I think there are some great independent
candidates who do a great job, and we do see that.
But we've also seen some awesome people. I mean our
local mayor, Campbell Barry. He stood on a labor ticket.
He's done a great job as mere for for a
while now, and he does an awesome job. So I've
seen both work really well. Some people like it, some don't.
(19:29):
There are some real benefits to knowing what someone's principles are,
what they stand for. It gives people a clear understanding.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And he said, but do we really might want to have, say,
for instance, just imagine if we had like a Green
MP somewhere and the Green Party we're telling them what
to do. Would we want that in local government?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
No? Look, I mean, you know, in terms of it
got on them, but National Party we're not. We're not
going to be running local government candidates, you know. I
think they should be a clear the marcation between the two.
You know, one has you know, one's government that's political,
but local councils it is a right power, you're a
(20:08):
right partner. I mean, we just want the councils doing
their course services and doing them as well as they
possibly can and delivering those key services for right pars.
And I don't think there's much of a place, or
there should be much of a place for party politics
to come into that at all.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I just really, really quickly, because I know you can,
I just say one thing.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I think David seymore, she'd sort out the school lunches
before he starts worrying about local body elections.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh oh blow, low blow. To finish off with, let's
quickly go to something that I actually liked. The idea.
The New Zealand Initiative says there's not enough young people
going into trades and schools need to do more to
help trades people get ready for post school similar to
university entrance, but call it trades entrance or something similar
to that. I love that idea and no one's ever
(20:53):
talked about it before. Ginny, what do you think.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
We love the idea. We want to see more young
people getting into trades. It's a great career and I'm
really proud of the fact that sixty two thousand apprenticeships
were supported when we're in government. That was a big
push for us to people into trade training. It's great
for the economy, it's good for young people. We should
be doing more of it now, and it's really sad
the apprenticeship boast has been kenned by the government.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Mike Butterick, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I agreed completely that, And you know, we had twenty
years ago, we had a conversation. Everyone was being channeled
off they should go to university, and no one was
sort of putting the trades up as a viable prayer option.
And you know, then we woke up one day and
when said, no, we've got no builders and plumbers and
Sparkys and the like, and you know, there's a big
hole and you know, one of our daughters's she's doing
(21:38):
a building apprenticeship now absolutely loves But I think, look,
I completely agree, there's some really good initiatives being done
from by schools. I've actually been having a bit of
a school week this week around Electric and there are
some really good initiatives getting some kids into going out
and doing gateways type programs, going out and spending part
of their week learning the trades, and of course most
(22:00):
of the time that transpires into a job. And so yeah,
I think there's some really good stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Great thank you and shout out to nine I College.
Apparently they've got a really good system and it works
really well. But with getting people into trades a couple
of days a week. Jinny Anderson, Mike Bagler, thank you
very much for joining us this morning on the show.
Have a great recess week. That's kind of like a
holiday week, isn't it. No, you're on holiday holiday week
for politicians.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
We're not on holiday.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Of course. You are not working. You're not you're not
in parliament, you're not working. Take a short break and
be back. I want to talk about duty free. When
was the last time you bought anything in a Judy
Free shot. Is Judy Free still a big thing?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Still?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You still get it? What do you get a bottle
of perfume?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I had to get my mum's some perfume and sometimes
like a bottle of Journey or something.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Oh you were going to but that were you?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's politics Thursday. Joining us today we have National MP
for the Wire Wrapper, Mike Butterick, Good morning, Mike. Are
you good? Thank you yourself?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah? Good, thank you good.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And Labor spokesperson Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Morning, Jinny, how would good morning?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Nice to have you back. And I haven't seen you
for a while. You've been hiding from us.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I thought I better show my face.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah yeah, you thought, oh well, there's no parliament on here.
I've got I probably could come along and turn up
to the show and have a chat. Keep it, keep
my profile out there. Right. Just start with the GDP figure.
You would have heard it. It's gone up one point
one percent. We're all a little bit excited. Sorry, it
grew by zero point seven percent. Obviously contracted down before
(00:58):
one point one percent and one percent in the previous
two quarters, but we grew by zero point seven percent. Jenny,
what did you make of it?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Well, it's good, it's an improvement, and people desperately want
some hope right now, but it doesn't change the fact
that people are still struggling. People are doing it really hard.
I was out talking to people in the community yesterday,
and we know that there's still a lot of people unemployed,
looking for work and very much struggling to be able
to pay for those food bills, rent bells, mortgage payments.
(01:27):
So yep, it's some relief, but it doesn't stop the
fact that can I just.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Ask you how I mean? We had a business panel
on Monday, a couple of very very successful people in
the studio, and they were saying how tough it was,
and you know, the economy hasn't grown and it's quite tough.
How tough really is it out there in the marketplace?
I mean, what are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
When you talk about people or businesses?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I want to talk about people, because people create businesses.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Then I met a woman yesterday who was who had
a severe disability and required care and her services have
been cut and so her eighty three year old father
has to shower her once a week because she doesn't
get support services. But I met two older people who
both have had their surgeries canceled, being told that they're
(02:12):
no longer urgent. They believe it's because they're over eighty.
They're not being prioritized. And we continually see people being
taken out of emergency housing, that the housing in the
hut is a real problem. They have a thirteen week
stand down period if they cause their own tendency to
be terminated. But that includes things like family violence. So
people have been kicked out of social housing for family
(02:34):
violence and then having a thirteen week stand down period.
So the social services in the cut and dealing with
these people in the hut who have got nowhere else
to go are the most vulnerable. That's where it's hurting
people the most in New Zealand right now, Mike.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
But I mean this comes after the consumer confidence index
took a tumble with uncertainty in the local and global outlook.
Wellington had the worst consumer confidence in the country. How
close are we actually now we hear this is a
good result. I mean, how close are we to getting
things right? I mean, when are they going to come right?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I guess. Look, it's good news, right, and it's a
it's a baby smeet step small step in the right direction.
But you know it's the first rise in two years,
and you know there is there are a lot of
cream shoots, and particularly in the in the wider Apple electorate.
You know, that's a large rural provincial area of New Zealand.
You know there's some there's a there's a lot of
confidence starting to sneak in there, and you know, the
(03:28):
conversations are very different than what they were six months
twelve months ago. Yeah, so I think I think it's
great news and it just shows that we're heading in
the right direction.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But when you're walking down the streets, if you're going
through Masterton or going through Continental Great Town, do you
actually feel it? Because you can feel that stuff, can't you.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, look you can. And I go in and call
in a lot of businesses and just ask them how
they're going, how they're feeling, and you know one to
ten one being you know, not very confident, ten going gangbusters,
And you know there's there's quite a bit of quiet
optimism there now. And you know, a lot of the
support businesses, you know, for the rule sector, you know
(04:07):
they're seen, you know, was tire kicking six months ago,
it's seen a lot of that's leading into sales now.
So yeah, I've certainly seen a bit of a positive swing.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I do think though, Nick, and I think you know
this as well through your hospitality background, that Wellington has
felt really sharply, particularly over the last six to twelve months,
that when you have a construction sector folding with thirteen
thousand out of there, and the public service on top
of that with significant cuts. We know that there's just
fewer people around the Wellington area with money in their pockets.
(04:40):
And it's shops, small businesses, restaurants, cafes, all of those
ones feel that punch because people are just looking for
any opportunity they can to save money and it's those
extra things that suffer the most at a time like that.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, I spoke to someone Mike on you know,
Tuesday night was Monday night was Saint Patrick's night. Tuesday
night was a day after Saint Patrick's. That's traditionally a
little bit quieter. I spoke to a local restaurant here
yesterday and he said that on Tuesday when Tuesday night, sorry,
I'm going to get my nights right. Tuesday night he
(05:13):
spent half an hour at his front door of his
place that's normally very busy, and never saw a single person.
We are still in tough times, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Oh, look absolutely, and I don't think anyone would dispute that.
But I think the point being is you know, we're
starting to come out of it. And I would make
the observation too, as you know, I think the recovery
will a lot of it will be led by the
primary sector. We've got four and a half billion extra
coming in from the dairy sector, one point two billion
extra coming in fro sheet and BF sector. The Eppel
(05:43):
and Pears have actually just surpassed the billion dollar export
revenue for the first time ever. And then all start
filtering through into our towns and then ultimately all start
filtering into our cities too. But it does take time.
There's no it's never going to be an instant fixed
nack jinny.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I've got to ask you because I was a little
bit confused hearing you with Mike Coscin yesterday over charter
skills labor, which I thought was pretty impressive. Turned around
and said, we're not going to change things if we
get back into Parliament, We're going to go with what's said.
We're not going to go through this whole period of
time of changing things and changing things back. But I
got very confused. What's the story with charter schools? Are
(06:19):
you going to change them back if you get become
part of government next election or are you going to
close them?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
We have been really clear that charter schools are something
that we don't support. So well. Yes, on big infrastructure
and PPP, we've been clear and said that if something's
in the ground and it's working well, we're not going
to unearth it like the government did with a construction
sector and that resulted in thirteen thousand workers leaving the country.
But with charter schools, we don't like those fundamentally and
(06:47):
we have said that we won't keep those them.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Sorry, I'm still confused because you know I and I
had your leader in the studio looked to my eye
two weeks ago. He said that, he looked at me
and he said, this is not going to happen. We
are going to go with the situation that whatever the
situation we're handed, we're going to go with it. To
be chopping and changing, We're going to go for it.
Now you're chopping and changing.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
With big infrastructure projects like roading in those big builds
that take decades to do, we have said and sent
MPs to that forum on the PPPs and the Infrastructure
Investment Summit, we will continue projects if they're in the ground.
And they're working well for Kiwis. We're getting good wages,
we're getting good outcomes for our people. But on the
separate issue of charter schools, which are small independent private schools,
(07:33):
we do not support charter schools, so they're gone if.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
We vote for you and Labour get in.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Ares the majority part of the new fact that we
don't support charter schools in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
What do you make of that, Mike? I mean, were you,
like me, thought that they weren't going to change the stuff?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm just as confused as you.
And you know, we've had Barbara Edmonds say they don't
want public private partnerships for the housing, so I mean,
keep me Sayer fund and come to the government and said, hey, lot,
we're really keen on building some social housing. I mean,
as later are going to oppose that. I mean that
they're a bit like a cat on hot bricks. They're
jumping all over the show.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, I think Mike's the one is getting confused because
charter schools are quite different from the investment summit that
you just attend, what everyone attended. Those are for those
significant big builds like Transmission Gully, like hospitals like massive builds.
So if we're wanting long term investment and development New Zealand,
if we flick back and forwards every three years, then
(08:29):
we'll never get progress as a country. And so we've
committed to making sure those big projects, if they're going
well and serving our people well, we will continue. But
we do not support small, independent private schools when we
should be investing in state education, good quality schools that
give kids who are hungry good quality meals, not the
slop they're being served up now by your government.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Mike, I want to start with you on this one.
The Health Minister sim And Brown is fired back at
public health servants, wanting them to focus on the basics
rather than using their resources to fight causes like fizzy
drinks stalled Fizzy Drinks and Palmerstan North and stalls Nelson
and McDonald's and Wanica. Health workers are saying that the
government's overreaching on their on their expertise and they are
(09:14):
being suppressed. What are you thought your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Well, I mean, you know, should they be in based
in a war over McDonald's and Wannaker or should they
just step out of there and let the people want
to decide whether they want and you know, I guess
look at the end of the day, what what what's
their purpose and they should be focusing on where the immunization,
providing national level advice, those core things, because that's that's
actually what their role is.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, Genny, I have an issue with us too. Do
public health officer officials really have the wrong priorities when
they are doing that sort of stuff like going to
putting a paper in for the for the Palmerston North
City Council about not having fizzy drinks in their stadiums,
going down and supporting the local Wonica people about not
having a McDonald's there. Is that their their priorities. Should
(09:58):
they be doing that?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Well, I guess it comes down to those decision makers
and it's I think it's an issue for this government
too that we often hear of minister's boasting they just
don't take advice they get there their reckons from life experience.
I've always been of the view that good advice is great.
You need all sources. You need it from private, from public,
from health and then it's for those decision makers to
(10:20):
make the right call. But of course they need good
information before them. In order to be able to make
an informed decision for the benefit of everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
But getting involved in the nitty gritty at a council
level or a local level. Should that be Health New
Zealand's responsibility.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, that's the council. The council chooses to take advice
if they're getting some help.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
No, no, no, hold hold on, let's let's let's signal
in on the McDonald's and Wonica. They did it themselves.
Health New Zealand made enough obsen you know, you know,
it came down, went hard at them, said they didn't
want it. It was their objection, no one else's.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Right, I will, I need to read the detail of
that story. I thought it was that the council had
had advice that they were looking at in terms of
deciding where to grant someone a permit or not. So
you were saying that.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
They went in they were part of the objection. We're
part of the objection. Have I got that wrong, Mike, No.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
That's great, that's right. And again you stay in their wheelhouse,
stay in the lane. They should be focused on immunization campaigns,
national level advice, not making detailed submissions over whether they
should there shouldn't be a McDonald's and Wonica for goodness sake,
or putting.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A paper together for the Parmeston North City Council to
stop them selling fizzy drinks at their venues. Exactly is
that what Health New Zealand should be doing either of you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
No? Absolutely not No, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Still kind of think that if they're giving advice that's
good health advice, why would you not want to know that?
And then they make the call whether they like it
or not. I mean, they're not forcing the council to
make a decision. They're providing them with some health advice
and it's in every right for the council to go.
Thanks for your views, but we're not going to take
more on board.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
But what surely that would be better spent that money
spent with their advice to be spent on actual getting
people into hospitals and getting operations.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Would be I think so, yeah, I would agree with
you in that right.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Thank you, thank you. We've got somewhere with politics Thursday
with Mike Butterick and Ginny Anderson. Jobs seeker benefit numbers
rose by twelve percent between February twenty four and February
twenty twenty four. In February this year. Ginny, you're the
labor spokesperson for jobs and incomes. What did you make
of this twenty two thousand extra now the numbers up
(12:25):
to two hundred and ten thousand people.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, it's really concerning, and it's concerning when you see
whole areas one work, for example, it be callahen innovation.
There's a whole lot of jobs gone out of the air,
which seems crazy for Wellington region in terms of how
much jobs those would mean to our economy. And then
you see instances where you had Kinleith closing with a
(12:48):
whole bunch of manufacturing jobs have really suffered as well
with the downturn. So it is a real worry that
not only are we losing jobs more, but it's some
of those really skilled, high wage jobs that are going
and we need a plan in place to think about
how we're training people but enabling those jobs which pay
(13:09):
higher wages. And that's good for families because you get
more in your pocket, more on the table, but it's
also good for the economy when you're generating those jobs
that are bigger and earn more for our country.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Mike, this is actually almost embarrassing for your government, because
remember your plan was, what was it, fifty thousand less
on the less than five years. Wasn't that the goal?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
It was, yep, yep, it was over six years, I think, but.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Still fifty thousand up and we've gone fifty thousand down
and we got twenty two thousand up in one year.
We're hitting in the direction, buddy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
But look that we always knew that that was going
to happen. And you know that the forecast for the
number of people on job seeker pre election, we're pretty
much being on that was where labor was in government.
We're pretty much being on the where the forecast was.
So it shouldn't really be any great surprise, not saying
that's straight for anybody at all, but you know, there's
(14:08):
there's some of these green shoots. There is starting to
we're starting to see a few people to stop using.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That green shoots when you're talking about unemployment when it
droves down that much, Come on, there's no shook.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
The point being is, you know those forecasts well where
we are, they were actually pretty much being on with
the forecasts from officials when Labor was in government, So
it shouldn't be any great supplies to anybody you know,
and it is tough, right, and it's they're not great numbers,
but they were pretty much where they were forecast to be.
But there are and I won't use the term, but
there are opportunities starting to come up now, which you
(14:42):
know last month, I think we saw six and a
half thousand people come off job seeker benefit in the work.
So it is happening. But you know, we've talked about
it at the start of the show. There's no magic,
but it's not going to happen overnight. I think it is.
We're certainly hitting in a different direction.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Okay. Christopher Luxan, the Prime Minister, will soon wrap up
his week long trip to India. He's led ministers and
senior business leaders on a trip and the two countries
will now start negotiating on a free trade agreement. This
is a very big entourage, as big as I can remember,
two planeloads. It's a big entourage, costing us a lot
(15:18):
of money. Ginny, has this trip been a success in
your eyes?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
When we find out if Deiry is included in that
free trade agreement? So if light's great, you know, shaking hands,
photo opportunities, playing cricket, All those things are lovely, but
what we really need to know is is dairy included
in that free trade agreement?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well it's not going to be, is it.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, what's the point of it then, because I can't
see because that's the critical factor that we want to know.
And that was always the issue right back when John
Key was negotiating, is that that was a market We
wanted to have an agreement that included deary and so
we're waiting to see that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Now. I've been told bike, and I'm not going to
be quoted on this, but I've been told that the
Indian population of Auckland is ten percent, right, so that's
a very big still going to take two more years
before we can get an airline to fly direct from
Auckland to India. Surely that would be something that would
be done a lot quicker than that. Now long do
you really think this trade deal is going to take?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Look at I mean, there's real crystal ball stuff. But
in terms of look, I think it's.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Said ninety days. He's put a time on it as well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I'll tell you what. Let's focus on the positive stuff here.
I mean, it's the fifth biggest economy in the world.
I've got one point four billion people, We're an exporting nation,
We're really good at growing stuff, and I think it's
a great success story. And you look at you know,
we've been got deals with Vietnam, UAE, GCC. Those are
the opportunities they're going to create, opportunities in all New
(16:47):
Zealand is going to benefit. I think it's a fantastic
story and it's all on the back of a lot
of hard work, you know, multiple trips from our minister
over there and developing those relationships and so there will
be huge opportunities. I can't preent how long it may take,
but you know, the conversations are great, the relationships are great,
and you know that's going to go a long way
(17:08):
to helping double our aspirations. You know, we've got aspirations
to double our export value within ten years. That's going
to go a long way to contributing to that, and
of course all New Zealanders benefits. So what I's like
about it, I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Mike. There's been a lot of talk about the numbers,
the sheer numbers of Indian people moving to New Zealand.
Has this been including any of the conversations because I
mean that's something that's probably a bit of a concern
just on a numbers basis, if we're already ten percent
of the population of Auckland.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, I couldn't comment on whether that's been part of
the conversations or not look at all, but you know,
we're a very diverse society there, multicultural society, and you
know we welcome people from that can come and contribute
to our country.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So we want dary if we're going to make some
concessions in and around education and training numbers. That's the
biggest migrant group we've had in New Zealand in the
past months has been from India and it's been I
think fifty thousand in one year. And so we need
to just make sure that if we're making additional concessions
(18:17):
for immigration, that there's economic benefits in it for New Zealand,
and that would include dairy. The other thing to keep
in mind. The other thing to keep in mind, and
this has kind of been under the radar. It's this
nuclear agreement that they're very keen on getting us agreeing.
So it does appear that Luxon might be up for
trading that off the New Zealand's that the Nuclear Suppliers Group,
(18:40):
which is enabling India to have more nuclear capability. If
New Zealand supports that in exchange for dairy, that'll be
something to keep your eyes on.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, we'll keep our eyes on that. A leader David
Seymour says local body body teics needs a shake up
and they will support candidates and this year's local body election, Ginny.
Something that really frustrates me is why do we have
to have party politics and local city councils. I don't
think we need it. What are your your own personal
(19:08):
thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Look I have I think there are some great independent
candidates who do a great job, and we do see that.
But we've also seen some awesome people. I mean our
local mayor, Campbell Barry. He stood on a labor ticket.
He's done a great job as mere for for a
while now, and he does an awesome job. So I've
seen both work really well. Some people like it, some don't.
(19:29):
There are some real benefits to knowing what someone's principles are,
what they stand for. It gives people a clear understanding.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And he said, but do we really might want to have, say,
for instance, just imagine if we had like a Green
MP somewhere and the Green Party we're telling them what
to do. Would we want that in local government?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
No? Look, I mean, you know, in terms of it
got on them, but National Party we're not. We're not
going to be running local government candidates, you know. I
think they should be a clear the marcation between the two.
You know, one has you know, one's government that's political,
but local councils it is a right power, you're a
(20:08):
right partner. I mean, we just want the councils doing
their course services and doing them as well as they
possibly can and delivering those key services for right pars.
And I don't think there's much of a place, or
there should be much of a place for party politics
to come into that at all.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I just really, really quickly, because I know you can,
I just say one thing.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I think David seymore, she'd sort out the school lunches
before he starts worrying about local body elections.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh oh blow, low blow. To finish off with, let's
quickly go to something that I actually liked. The idea.
The New Zealand Initiative says there's not enough young people
going into trades and schools need to do more to
help trades people get ready for post school similar to
university entrance, but call it trades entrance or something similar
to that. I love that idea and no one's ever
(20:53):
talked about it before. Ginny, what do you think.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
We love the idea. We want to see more young
people getting into trades. It's a great career and I'm
really proud of the fact that sixty two thousand apprenticeships
were supported when we're in government. That was a big
push for us to people into trade training. It's great
for the economy, it's good for young people. We should
be doing more of it now, and it's really sad
the apprenticeship boast has been kenned by the government.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Mike Butterick, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I agreed completely that, And you know, we had twenty
years ago, we had a conversation. Everyone was being channeled
off they should go to university, and no one was
sort of putting the trades up as a viable prayer option.
And you know, then we woke up one day and
when said, no, we've got no builders and plumbers and
Sparkys and the like, and you know, there's a big
hole and you know, one of our daughters's she's doing
(21:38):
a building apprenticeship now absolutely loves But I think, look,
I completely agree, there's some really good initiatives being done
from by schools. I've actually been having a bit of
a school week this week around Electric and there are
some really good initiatives getting some kids into going out
and doing gateways type programs, going out and spending part
of their week learning the trades, and of course most
(22:00):
of the time that transpires into a job. And so yeah,
I think there's some really good stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Great thank you and shout out to nine I College.
Apparently they've got a really good system and it works
really well. But with getting people into trades a couple
of days a week. Jinny Anderson, Mike Bagler, thank you
very much for joining us this morning on the show.
Have a great recess week. That's kind of like a
holiday week, isn't it. No, you're on holiday holiday week
for politicians.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
We're not on holiday.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Of course. You are not working. You're not you're not
in parliament, you're not working. Take a short break and
be back. I want to talk about duty free. When
was the last time you bought anything in a Judy
Free shot. Is Judy Free still a big thing?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Still?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
You still get it? What do you get a bottle
of perfume?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I had to get my mum's some perfume and sometimes
like a bottle of Journey or something.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Oh you were going to but that were you?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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