April 8, 2025 • 8 mins
A new report from the Ministerial advisory group on organised crime says New Zealand is losing the fight, with Customs "swimming against the tide" and some stakeholders raising concerns about people in influential positions being corrupted.
How bad really is organised crime in New Zealand - and what can be down to crack down on it?
NZ Herald investigative reporter and bestselling author Jared Savage joined Nick Mills to discuss the issue.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SIB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us now is Jared Savage. He's an investigative reporter
at the New Zealand Herald and author of best selling
books Gangland and Gangster's Paradise. Good morning, Jared.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm great, thanks and good to talk to you again. Look,
we're doing an hour on the show based on your
article about organized crime in New Zealand worse than it's
ever been.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I grew up and was you know in that scene
when the Mister Asia stuff was carrying on. I know
that you're an expert on all things to do with that.
Do you really think that crime in New Zealand right
now is worse than it was organized crime was worse
than it was in the eighties.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think obviously the Mister Asia sort of symmicate was
a huge story at the time, but in many ways
it's kind of Tiddley winks to what we're seeing now.
It's bar Secondly, the last sort of five years, this
has been a huge upswing in not only the scale
of what we're seeing in terms of drug imports coming in,
(01:17):
but just the frequency of it. And also the consumption
of the drugs as well. So it's it's definitely on
another level completely to what we've seen before.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What do you put it down to? What is the
one thing or two things that you think, because I
mean you're writing about it, you understand it, you know it.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What do you? What do you?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What's what's making it happen?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
We've you know, New Zealand's always had particularly with well
mess has been an episode of twenty five close to
thirty years now, and it's always been a lucrative market
here in New Zealand. We've always had the street price
of it has always commanded a good price for it.
But what we're seeing in recent years is essentially the
supplies of those drugs are the sis organized crimes and
(02:00):
to get you Mixican katols, for example, they've kind of
noticed the other than supplying the distributors here in New Zealand,
they kind of realizing, well, we can make a lot
of money for this ourselves. So a kilo of myth
in Mexico might be hovering around one thousand dollar mark,
well that same kilo and New Zealand is worth in
thewhere between eighty two one hundred and eighty thousand dollars
(02:22):
depending on the market at the time. So this huge
money to be made here. These big organized kind groups
overseas have taken an interest, and this is a supply
driven market, so they're sending more here and we're consuming
more because it's becoming cheaper. And that ties in with
sort of the advent of the sort of Australian five
(02:43):
one D fourte gangs coming over, the Commoneros and the Mongols,
and they've sort of taken the sophistication of you know,
they've got these international connections, they can make it happen
on a far bigger scale of the monk seen before.
And it's all kind of happened all at once, and
it's pumping a lot more drugs into the market, most
mostly mess but also the cocaine and Indian a market
(03:05):
is also bigger than it's ever been.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So can I quickly just talk to you about cocaine,
because I come from a background of entertainment and clubs
and bars and stuff. Right now I've never known, ever
known cocaine is available as it is now. I mean,
you can walk down the road and buy cocaine where
you had to be very connected twenty years ago to
(03:27):
have cocaine and very rich.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's right, and I think again it comes from the
same reason as I just mentioned before. They're sort of
the Aussie gangs having these have you know, they've been
deported from Australia that they're here, they've got these international
connections with the cartels that you know, they're bringing their
sort of bringing bringing cocaine to sort of expand the
(03:50):
market because it's never really been like you say, it's
been difficult to get in the past, not so anymore.
And while it's still a relatively small market you compare
the mess, it is growing. I think it's partly down
to you know, there's a bit of a stigma around
the end. It's a bit of a dirty drug perhaps
in some people's minds, whereas cocaine is a bit more
(04:11):
of a sex years for a party drug. So yeah,
we're definitely seen an upswing of that in the lasting
years as well, and that's tied into the same of
the phenomenon that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I think I think the whole cocaine thing is
it's almost cool. You know, if you're using cocaine, you're
rich and you're famous, and you're cool. Isn't it. It's horrible,
but a true.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, I think I think that's I think it's definitely
definitely part of it. It's got that sort of a
lure and like I said, it's not a sort of
stigmatized as much as mess. So yeah, we're definitely seeing
up sing of that. I mean, we never used to
see it, and now we're seeing you know, large shipment's
getting getting seased here and it's also reflected in the
(04:51):
waist sport of data as well.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Tell us your thoughts about the underworld that's not getting
connected is there? I feel I feel that that's starting
to happen a bit now that I haven't seen for
a long time. But I feel that there's you know,
I don't want to call it mafia, that would be
pushing the barrow way too far out, but like organized
(05:14):
crime that's not getting associated associated do you reckon that's
prevalent at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, that's I mean that is when we talk about
sort of transnational organized crime, we're talking about you know,
Asian crime syndicate sort of largely based instead of the
sort of Memm Boomer kind of Golden Triangle area that's
with the production the large super lab production.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Of myth, anthetamine and other synthetic drugs. That is their
ultimate source of the myth coming coming into New Zealand
as well as sort of sort of the Mexican labs
as well. So you know, these are these are cartels,
these are serious organized crime. They are they're coming here.
They're setting up shop and selling myths by drugs through
(05:58):
the through distribution channels that are often gangs or gang
connected as well. So I mean a lot of people
think about gangs and organized that they think of They
think of just our motorcycle gangs or move or whatever.
But you know, the gangs is part of the ecosystem
of organized crime and an important part, I might add,
But there are definitely you know, there is a definitely
(06:21):
other sort of parts of that ecosystem which are equally
important that don't get the same sort of attention. And
you know, part of that was also be sort of
professional money waundering as well. Organized crime is all about
money and cash and getting it basically trying to hide it.
So you need these sort of money launderings from the
kits to help get it overseas or are potentially using
(06:44):
accountants or lawyers or other professionals to sort of purchase assets.
You so, turning your money wandering is sending good the
cash into legitimate looking assets, and that's a huge part
of what we're seeing as well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
This Ministerial Advisory Group identified corruption, which is basically what
you're talking about right now, people in high places working
with these organized criminals. How big of an issue is
corruption in New Zealand? Do you really think that's happening?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Absolutely? I mean, we're you know, we're seeing New Zealand
likes to see itself as a largely corruption free society
and you know, to many extents that is that is
still true. But you know, what we're seeing with a
lot of these groups is particularly in the sort of
the you know, obviously there's the odd case of a
(07:33):
police officer has been found to be corrupt, you know,
leaking information to gangs, other organized crime figures or potentially
other sort of government agencies. But we're also seeing in
the private sectors. So a good example of this is
there's lots of baggage handlers at Auckland the airport, found
to be sort of working hand in glove with was
(07:54):
ducting the sets to get get large shipments through without
it going to the borders. The same with our issues
and our ports, with the same sort of thing happening,
So we're diffy see more of it. And you know,
there's you know, there's a lot of money to be made.
So if you're if you're a worker somewhere struggling with
(08:16):
a cost of living crisis, not paid particularly well, and
someone's offering you ten twenty thirty thousand dollars to do
something the ten look the other way, well you're probably
going to take that, take that risk.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Jared, thank you very much for all that information and
joining us this morning. I read Gang Leans, as I said,
and I thought it was an incredible book. I couldn't
put it down. And you're a braver man to meet
than me to write all that stuff. So I appreciate
what you're doing. I appreciate your working in the same
organization that I do and all the work you do.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Cheers.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I appreciate it, Jared Savage.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
There for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news Talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SIB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining us now is Jared Savage. He's an investigative reporter
at the New Zealand Herald and author of best selling
books Gangland and Gangster's Paradise. Good morning, Jared.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning Neck.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm great, thanks and good to talk to you again. Look,
we're doing an hour on the show based on your
article about organized crime in New Zealand worse than it's
ever been.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I grew up and was you know in that scene
when the Mister Asia stuff was carrying on. I know
that you're an expert on all things to do with that.
Do you really think that crime in New Zealand right
now is worse than it was organized crime was worse
than it was in the eighties.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think obviously the Mister Asia sort of symmicate was
a huge story at the time, but in many ways
it's kind of Tiddley winks to what we're seeing now.
It's bar Secondly, the last sort of five years, this
has been a huge upswing in not only the scale
of what we're seeing in terms of drug imports coming in,
(01:17):
but just the frequency of it. And also the consumption
of the drugs as well. So it's it's definitely on
another level completely to what we've seen before.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What do you put it down to? What is the
one thing or two things that you think, because I
mean you're writing about it, you understand it, you know it.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What do you? What do you?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What's what's making it happen?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
We've you know, New Zealand's always had particularly with well
mess has been an episode of twenty five close to
thirty years now, and it's always been a lucrative market
here in New Zealand. We've always had the street price
of it has always commanded a good price for it.
But what we're seeing in recent years is essentially the
supplies of those drugs are the sis organized crimes and
(02:00):
to get you Mixican katols, for example, they've kind of
noticed the other than supplying the distributors here in New Zealand,
they kind of realizing, well, we can make a lot
of money for this ourselves. So a kilo of myth
in Mexico might be hovering around one thousand dollar mark,
well that same kilo and New Zealand is worth in
thewhere between eighty two one hundred and eighty thousand dollars
(02:22):
depending on the market at the time. So this huge
money to be made here. These big organized kind groups
overseas have taken an interest, and this is a supply
driven market, so they're sending more here and we're consuming
more because it's becoming cheaper. And that ties in with
sort of the advent of the sort of Australian five
(02:43):
one D fourte gangs coming over, the Commoneros and the Mongols,
and they've sort of taken the sophistication of you know,
they've got these international connections, they can make it happen
on a far bigger scale of the monk seen before.
And it's all kind of happened all at once, and
it's pumping a lot more drugs into the market, most
mostly mess but also the cocaine and Indian a market
(03:05):
is also bigger than it's ever been.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So can I quickly just talk to you about cocaine,
because I come from a background of entertainment and clubs
and bars and stuff. Right now I've never known, ever
known cocaine is available as it is now. I mean,
you can walk down the road and buy cocaine where
you had to be very connected twenty years ago to
(03:27):
have cocaine and very rich.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's right, and I think again it comes from the
same reason as I just mentioned before. They're sort of
the Aussie gangs having these have you know, they've been
deported from Australia that they're here, they've got these international
connections with the cartels that you know, they're bringing their
sort of bringing bringing cocaine to sort of expand the
(03:50):
market because it's never really been like you say, it's
been difficult to get in the past, not so anymore.
And while it's still a relatively small market you compare
the mess, it is growing. I think it's partly down
to you know, there's a bit of a stigma around
the end. It's a bit of a dirty drug perhaps
in some people's minds, whereas cocaine is a bit more
(04:11):
of a sex years for a party drug. So yeah,
we're definitely seen an upswing of that in the lasting
years as well, and that's tied into the same of
the phenomenon that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I think I think the whole cocaine thing is
it's almost cool. You know, if you're using cocaine, you're
rich and you're famous, and you're cool. Isn't it. It's horrible,
but a true.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, I think I think that's I think it's definitely
definitely part of it. It's got that sort of a
lure and like I said, it's not a sort of
stigmatized as much as mess. So yeah, we're definitely seeing
up sing of that. I mean, we never used to
see it, and now we're seeing you know, large shipment's
getting getting seased here and it's also reflected in the
(04:51):
waist sport of data as well.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Tell us your thoughts about the underworld that's not getting
connected is there? I feel I feel that that's starting
to happen a bit now that I haven't seen for
a long time. But I feel that there's you know,
I don't want to call it mafia, that would be
pushing the barrow way too far out, but like organized
(05:14):
crime that's not getting associated associated do you reckon that's
prevalent at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, that's I mean that is when we talk about
sort of transnational organized crime, we're talking about you know,
Asian crime syndicate sort of largely based instead of the
sort of Memm Boomer kind of Golden Triangle area that's
with the production the large super lab production.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Of myth, anthetamine and other synthetic drugs. That is their
ultimate source of the myth coming coming into New Zealand
as well as sort of sort of the Mexican labs
as well. So you know, these are these are cartels,
these are serious organized crime. They are they're coming here.
They're setting up shop and selling myths by drugs through
(05:58):
the through distribution channels that are often gangs or gang
connected as well. So I mean a lot of people
think about gangs and organized that they think of They
think of just our motorcycle gangs or move or whatever.
But you know, the gangs is part of the ecosystem
of organized crime and an important part, I might add,
But there are definitely you know, there is a definitely
(06:21):
other sort of parts of that ecosystem which are equally
important that don't get the same sort of attention. And
you know, part of that was also be sort of
professional money waundering as well. Organized crime is all about
money and cash and getting it basically trying to hide it.
So you need these sort of money launderings from the
kits to help get it overseas or are potentially using
(06:44):
accountants or lawyers or other professionals to sort of purchase assets.
You so, turning your money wandering is sending good the
cash into legitimate looking assets, and that's a huge part
of what we're seeing as well.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
This Ministerial Advisory Group identified corruption, which is basically what
you're talking about right now, people in high places working
with these organized criminals. How big of an issue is
corruption in New Zealand? Do you really think that's happening?
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Absolutely? I mean, we're you know, we're seeing New Zealand
likes to see itself as a largely corruption free society
and you know, to many extents that is that is
still true. But you know, what we're seeing with a
lot of these groups is particularly in the sort of
the you know, obviously there's the odd case of a
(07:33):
police officer has been found to be corrupt, you know,
leaking information to gangs, other organized crime figures or potentially
other sort of government agencies. But we're also seeing in
the private sectors. So a good example of this is
there's lots of baggage handlers at Auckland the airport, found
to be sort of working hand in glove with was
(07:54):
ducting the sets to get get large shipments through without
it going to the borders. The same with our issues
and our ports, with the same sort of thing happening,
So we're diffy see more of it. And you know,
there's you know, there's a lot of money to be made.
So if you're if you're a worker somewhere struggling with
(08:16):
a cost of living crisis, not paid particularly well, and
someone's offering you ten twenty thirty thousand dollars to do
something the ten look the other way, well you're probably
going to take that, take that risk.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Jared, thank you very much for all that information and
joining us this morning. I read Gang Leans, as I said,
and I thought it was an incredible book. I couldn't
put it down. And you're a braver man to meet
than me to write all that stuff. So I appreciate
what you're doing. I appreciate your working in the same
organization that I do and all the work you do.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Cheers.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I appreciate it, Jared Savage.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
There for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen
live to news Talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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