The latest Taxpayers Union Curia Poll shows Labour ahead of National and Chris Hipkins is now marginally more popular than Prime Minister Christopher Luxon. What does this poll result tell us, and will Labour's support hold?
Also New Zealand First have introduced a members bill to take 'woke' diversity equity and inclusion practices out of the public service. Currently the public service has to “promote a diverse workforce”. Is this bill the answer to a serious issue, or is this just culture war politics?
To answer those questions, Labour's health and Wellington issues spokeswoman Ayesha Verrall and National's Otaki MP Tim Costley joined Nick Mills for Politics Thursday.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk saied Ban.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make your.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Lover joining us for politics Thursday. This week is Labour's
Health and Wellington's Issues. Spokeswoman II Shaviral, Good morning. How
are you? Can you bring your microphone a little bit
closer please? Thank you? And National's o Techi mpad costly. Yes,
good morning, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm very well.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Did you go to that big launch last night of
the Saints at Mills Albert.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, I'm going to watch them on Sunday, So you
didn't go? They didn't get no local MP. I'm in Parliament,
I'm working hard. I did. I did manage to make
it up to the Business breakfist this morning with Penny Gower,
but had to be bat down for Selectmney. So I'm
ass the second half. But I'll be at the game
on Sunday supporting the local team and a great company
like middles Albert.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I'm blooming disappointed that the local MP where they took
the big effort to take it all out to the
Kapiti Coast and the MP wasn't there, and I was
watching parliament, so don't tell me you a parliament because
there was seven people in Parliament yesterday afternoon, none of
which I recognized. Not a single person apart from the
green guy with and the ponytail.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
You know, Steve abel Steve Abel Well.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I recognized him because it's hard not to recognize him.
Didn't recognize a single person in parliament.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You didn't watch my speech?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Did you have the speech?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What time?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Jesus crushing me?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
What type?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
What time?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was watching it?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
There's about five fifty answer. That was the if the
debate on the budget statement.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
But then after that, No, no, it was a debate
on some old place in Auckland that they were going
to try and.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Get the bill I was speaking on. Are you If
you hung on for another ten minutes I was there.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I would have been able to recognize somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You've got to let them sell ice creams. They haven't
been selling ice creams in Auckland. They want to sell
ice creams. This's the big issues.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You know what I said to myself, that's in half
an hour. I'll never get back in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't waste Arlington in Auckland, I promise you, my god.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I was watching it thinking there's more empty seats there
in a bloomen You know, I don't know what you described.
There was no one there was he had when you spoke?
Was there only one to you speak?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Do you in Phenis? I would say up our end
of the house where National Labour said that there was
a little more populus than it was down in Green Spots.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And Mary, one of the things is when when you
vote along party lines on a bill, of course, it's
not a surprise where it's going to go, which way
it's going to go. You know, the government usually has
numbers the opposition don't. We are there, impis are working
elsewhere and the house is empty. But we did have
a member's bill pass last night, the wage theft Bill,
(02:57):
Camilla Balicher's bill, where we had Greens to party, Mary,
Labor and New Zealand first voting to make it illegal
for employers to hold wages withhold wages from from staff.
And that is when you really are biting your fingernails,
wondering which way of ice.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And you got that over. Yeah, we got over the
line without the government Yeah, what do you look at
me like that? For you didn't you couldn't you weren't government.
You didn't get it. They got it through.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well this is the thing about members bill and another
one to get drawn today, hopefully hopefully my one. But
but this is every every batman MP gets to actually
come and bring one idea and put your idea up
and it relies on working clab. What's yours the House?
It's got sixty name it's the Administrative Areas Bill. But
it's all about untangling this messy web of over overlapping
boundaries for government agencies. It really impacts regional New Zealand,
(03:45):
places like Autucky on the outskirts of Wellington really hard
to get access.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm sorry but that sounds almost as boring as watching
Parliament as it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Makes a difference. And that's that's you. Don't you don't
have to listen to me talk about it, but trust me,
if you're an Awtucky you'd love this.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Okay, right, let's talk about the pole. Let's start with
the poll. Latest taxpayer Union Securier poll shows late very
ahead of national four to thirty three percent and Chris
Hipkins is now marginally more popular than the Prime Minister
Christopher Luxean Labor could form a government on these numbers. Tim,
(04:18):
I feel I've got to ask you, why is the
government struggling so much in a popularity.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, look, I mean they post come and go. You know,
I've never really got hung up on them. What I
would say is, you know the other poles that the
other questions they ask that come out with it. It's
really clear that what people are focused on the biggest
issue is how expensive it is in New Zealand to live,
whether that's paying for your groceries, whether that's feeding your family,
whether that is paying for energy for electricity, And that's
(04:50):
the thing that we are focused on. And look, it
is tough. This We're coming out of a really tough recession,
the worst economic conditions in thirty years, and honestly, that
takes time. It takes time until your mortgage refixes. It's
great that the average mortgage now is almost two hundred
bucks a week cheaper, but until you refix your more
because you don't see the different. But I am just
so confident that come the election next year, Keys are
(05:11):
going to be in a much better place than they're
worth three years earlier and that will be the thing
that drives the election result next year.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I sure it's just just a protest folk, given how
tough the economy is and things aren't improving as quickly
as what we want we all want to happen. Do
you reckon you can hold the support to the next election.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think there's a trend there, and of course a
lot can happen in eighteen months, so there's certainly no
no one in labor is counting any chickens. But I
think I probably agree with the sentiment that Tim's mentioned
that people aren't convinced that the economy is turning around
for them for them at this stage, and in Labor
(05:52):
we've thought about that, and we've thought about now, fifteen
months into this government, we need to move beyond just criticizing.
So we're starting to put up our priorities. Jobs, health,
and homes are those key issues that we think the
country wants to see change and that we'll be pushing
on now.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Be fear, I've got to ask you the same question
that I asked your leader yesterday on the same thing.
I mean, you had six years to bring those things
under control and you didn't, So why suddenly are you
becoming popular for saying the same things you said you
were going to do and didn't do again.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Well, we know people voted for a change at the
last election, and that's why we spent a year listening
to what people have to say precisely about that question, Nick,
and I think the thing is they voted for a change,
but this isn't the change they voted for. And I
think about obviously think a lot about the health system,
(06:49):
and I think we need to that's one of the
top two issues that comes up in these polling of
what people are upset about, alongside the economy obviously number
number one. And we need to reflect on the things
we got right. But it's quite clear this isn't the
change people voted for. They didn't vote for their GP
fees to go up, for it to get harder to
(07:09):
see and after ours doctor and so on. So that
is the point of difference. This is a different government
from what we were doing, and we need to offer
New Zealand as a choice in terms of the health
system they need and deserve, in terms of jobs and
access to being able to start on home ownership as well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and look at the point is as you said,
they had six years and coming out and saying jobs
at house health, sort of bingo of what was at
the top of the last poll, when they got worse
under the last under the labor government for years with
a complete majority to do whatever they want the way
they want to do it, and it got de monstrably worse.
(07:47):
That's actually not going to sway people. I'm not focused
on what people are saying about nationally. I'm focused on
the people themselves on what is going to make life better.
And I am just so confident that come the election
next year, you know the cost of living is under control,
that the economy is better. People have a few extra
dollars and their pocket at the end of the week,
(08:07):
they get a few choices, they get some opportunity, and
and the and the direction we're going, and yes it's
been really tough, but we are tracking the right direction.
Think this is what people want.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Do you think Tim that anyone in your organization is
going to take heed to what Rod Juke, the owner
of Briscoe's and Rebel said yesterday on one of our
shows on Ryan's show, that you know it's time now
that you get off your ass. What do you think
that anyone will take any you know, notice of that.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Oh look, I haven't seen those comments, but what you
must have seen in those comments, genuinely have What you've
seen from the from the PM from the start of
the year is that we have to be a country
that stops saying no. This is why we're out in
Auckland and the investment summit today because we have to hustle.
We need more money coming in because yes, healthcare is expensive,
education is expensive. We have to go for growth this year,
(08:52):
so we are off our ars. I mean, look at
what the Trade Minister is doing out there on the
world stage. A free trade agreement in four months. That's
that's amazingly quick. Look at how how focused we are.
And the one thing the Prime Minister brings in particular
is that la to focus on what we're trying to do.
So I can assure you we're hustling because you're right,
we need to make a difference for Kiwis and we
(09:13):
need to keep delivering on that.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
What did you think I show when Rod Duke came out.
I mean I was quite surprised that he was quite
so harsh on them, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I mean I think you see that I didn't. But
there has been a threat of negative commentary from business
as well, which the government has sought to respond to.
But back to the original issue of the poles for
the polls to turn around, it's not just the business
community that needs to feel better. Ordinary New Zealanders need
to feel that they're got more money than they did
(09:45):
earlier in the cycle. And I know the government has
given a tax cut twenty bucks, but people are seeing
that outweighed by the costs that they face. We've just
heard that some of the workers in jobs like cleaning
security will no longer be supported by a living wage.
Those sorts of things also.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I want to I want to talk about that. Let
me let me let me ask you some questions on that.
Because Finance Minister Nichola Willis has announced changes to the
procurement rules. They wanted to give Kiwi companies more contracts.
That might mean government pays more, but they also want
to do away with living wage for all people working
within the government contractors. I love this idea personally. I
love the idea that we are looking within New Zealand
(10:29):
before we look at big multinational international companies. Tim, do
you think that this is actually going to help. And
would you feel happy if we had to secure a
New Zealand company to build a new motorway and o
tacking and pay more than would if we could get
it internationally.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, I mean there's some great local companies that are
contributing to I mean you took about Mills Albertts before
that sponsor the Saints, look at Goodman Contractors up and
why can I as well? There are great local companies
that are part of it. What we want to see
is local New Zealand businesses thriving because they employ kiwis,
because they contribute directly to our economy. Of course, we
want money to be coming and staying within our local
(11:08):
economies and not going overseas, but there are also times
when you need either investment from overseas or particular skill
sets and connections that come from that. So of course
there's got to be a bit of a balanced view here.
But I think the right direction to be looking at
is going, how are we making sure that we're really
considering kiwi companies And when we consider them, it might
be a little bit more expensive, but as the greater
(11:29):
economic fly and effect.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Hell of a lot more has to be, doesn't it nice?
I mean, if you're getting like a Mills album, which
we're giving too many plugs to a contract to do
the roading, rather than a Chinese company. You know, they've
got Kiwi's working for them. It's all the money filters
back to New Zealand. I should that can't be a
bad thinking.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
It Well, the procurement rules are the rules of the
road for those government contracts and they set a floor
in terms of wages for people like security guards, people
like cleaners who are working in public services.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Why should they be the living Why should they be
the living age when they're not good?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
New Zealand firm offering good wages can't be outbid by
another firm that's racing to the bottom. That's all it means.
And that is not to the disadvantage of New Zealanders.
It helps many New Zealanders who are on the breadline,
struggling to put you know, take care of their own healthcare,
get their kids to school and so on while working
(12:27):
for the government. I mean, that just seems wrong to me.
So to be able to set a rule to say, yep,
these companies should compete. New Zealand companies can be preferred
in this but in any case, this is a minimum
for the wages. Seems an absolutely important thing that the
government should set out. Well.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I mean, look, if jobs is one of the top three,
then surely jobs for Keywis is a great thing, right,
so we've I think it's reasonable to have this new
economic benefit test in there. The other great thing, of
course about what we're doing is culling more than a
third twenty four of the regulations because it can be
really hard for small local businesses to bid for some
of these contracts because there were seventy one d regulation
(13:07):
and they don't rule.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
They didn't have a hybrid card, they didn't have electric card.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
We've got to be a bit pragmatic, you know, we've
got to get our economy pumping. And the more that
we do that, of course, the more incomes are going
to left. Of course, we'll have people that can afford
you know, electric cars and things in due course. But
let's get our economy cranking. Let's make sure we're supporting
Keywis into work and able to pay the bills, and
we're going to be in a better place.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Politics Thursday with Aishaviri and Tim Costly, shall I want
to start with you on this one. I wanted to
ask about the regional deals. Councils across Wellington Region have
chosen not to apply for a regional deal from the government,
basically free money for an infrastructure project that could make
a real big difference to our greater Wellington area. Wellington,
(13:48):
you know, you're Wellington spokesperson. What do you think, what
do you say? What do you feel?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Well, firstly, I think everyone expects counselors to be working
regionally together for the best interests of the region across
the councils and potty in Wellington City for our infrastructure needs,
which are substantial. I'm not sure how much money was
really on the table though. In this you know, the
(14:15):
government has hasn't offered a lot of money to councils,
so it's not clear to me that a good deal
has gone begging here. In this instance, the Government's been
pretty clear it doesn't have a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
But they surely should have put something forwards, thinking that,
you know, there might have been something there. Even if
the money wasn't there, there was an opportunity to show
the government what needs to happen in the city.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well I think It's pretty important to know how much
money is on the table, to be honest, because that's
what's overseas. These city deals have unlocked a lot of
infrastructure development and growth, particularly in the United Kingdom. So
they're a good thing to do. You can't do it
out of nothing. These things are expensive.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Was there money on the table? Tom as well as
then drop the ball on this one. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I think it's really disappointed, like we are doing everything
we can as a government to go for growth this year,
to attract capital. We talked about the investment summit that's
on today, earlier infrastructures, right, so here's an opportunity and
eighteen other regions got together, councils combined around the country
and put a bit in because if you don't have
one and there's nothing there and I look at what
(15:22):
is a good question?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It is a good question. Was do we know how
much the pot of gold was? Was were a pot
of gold?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But this is the point right that, yes, we are
going to sign a regional deal this year. There will
be more regional deals next year, but.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
We have to look at what was there a pot
of gold?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, there is money to go with this region.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We know do we know how much?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
No, that's a budget thing and I'll let them you know,
appropriate minister.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And at this budget coming up, we will hear that
there is twenty nine million dollars that are going into
this funt.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You'll hear how much is going to it when it's
announced which ones are successful, because they are all slightly.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So we won't hear it in this budget, or we
will hear it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, I'm clearly not announcing happening in the budget to day,
but are.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You just said that we'll hear in the budget how
much money is in there for this Well.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You'll see big picture ones, but for specific persent a deal.
I just look at what's happening at the next one up.
The other half of my elector and Jude Fenowa working
with one or two, working with Palmerston North. They called
it going for growth from coast to coast. It's about
building on our existing strength. It's transport, its logistics, it's agriculture,
it's innovation, electrifying some of our horticulture industries. Things like that.
It is fantastic, it's exciting. I want to see that
(16:22):
one get over the line. I'm working really hard to
try and advocate for that, but I've got nothing to
work with at the Wellington then because they couldn't get together.
So it's really hard if they won't meet us halfway.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Can I just ask you personally a personal question to you,
what is it with your leaders that wants to have
a crack at Wellington? John Key firstly said we're dead.
I mean he was right, but he was the wrong decade.
Now we've got you know, your current Prime Minister, Christopher
Luxan is calling us lame.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh well, and I think it's calling new lamo.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I think I took a person.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think every Wellington right paw will be really disappointed
that that their councils across the region couldn't get together
and at least put something in and say well, this
is what we'd like to have a conversation about, this
is what we'd like. We couldn't even get to step
one and I think that is this. I don't think
that's an unfair criticism Ashure.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Do you believe that Wellington didn't put a submission in
or didn't put a plan in because they thought there
was no money there? Is that what you're saying, Well, that's.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
What I understand, But for the Council to speak about
how it made that decision. But look, I think it's
is this where we're at with a prime minister calling
a group of elected officials elected by our city laime
o like, at least Wellington is dying that John Key
when he said that lest there's an economic argument in
(17:34):
there just calling people names. It's a bit disappointing and sad.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
New Zealand First have introduced a members bill to take
DEI Diversity, Equity and Inclusion practices out of public service.
Currently the public service has to promote a diverse workforce. Aisher,
Is this just culture war politics? Is this really a problem?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah? I don't think it's a problem. I think it
is trying to generate a little bit of differentiation for
New Zealand First, a little bit of crumpiness to be
able to generate some excitement about among their voters. But
really it's a bit of a non issue. And I
thought the thing that made the cynicism of this pretty
clear is that when journalists Winston Peters yesterday, why is
(18:18):
it that the New Zealand First Constitution says that you
have to have a representation of genders and regions and
ethnicities and so on. So it looks like one rule
for the goose and one for the gander in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First Tim Trump's doing this in the years, say, is
this just Winston Peter's following his lead? Is it him
trying to be New Zealand's version of Trump.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Look, I don't know. I haven't actually seen the bill.
If it gets drawn out, I'll have a read. But
I do think public service there is room for improvement.
And the bill that needs to get drawn out at
twelve o'clock today is my Minister of Area's bill.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Getting tired. I don't need something to put me to.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's where my focus is. That's what I think we
could do with members bill to really improve public service quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Because I know we've all got to go shortly. How
important is diversity in politics?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Is shad well in politics? Remember that our house in
Parliament is a house of representatives. Our job is to
represent the people. Now, part of that is representing them geographically,
but it's also you know, making sure our democracy is
stronger when all voices are heard in Parliament. So I
think it's important.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Tim. What do you think? Because you know, watching my
half an hour of a dead empty Parliament chambers yesterday.
There was a lot of diversity in there and there
wasn't much question about that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, and look, I think you know, when we think diversity,
it's really easy to look at things that you can
see from the outside. But let's not forget diversity of
thought and diversity of experience. There are some things that
people look, I'm here, I am a forty five year
old white male, but actually I bring some pretty unique
experiences that not many people, if any, in that house have,
So I think we want to you know, there is
a broad range when we look at diversity.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well, because you're a helicopter pilot and being in the
Air Force and you've been, is that that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We all mention it?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I mean no, no, I'm just asking because I mean,
I think that's I think that's right. I think you've
actually been in the military. I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
There's only two of us that probably served overseas on operations.
But also some of the places that my career has
been have been really different to where ICE's career have gone.
We need we need all of it, right, we need
all of the breadth of experience that that people.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Can You tell us who the other one that's served over.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Vanessa Weenak, National MP for Banks Pininsula and she was
a doctor in the Army but served in Afghanistian and
the Steamore.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Oh well, I mean, I think that's fabulous.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I agree that's diversity. I actually agree that's diversity.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Do you Yeah, I do. And I also think, you
know one of the things. But we're not perfect on
diversity in many respects. In Parliament, would be great to
see more working class voices, for instance, and also in
the in the public service. I know Asian New Zealanders
feel like the services that they need are often not
led by people who understand their community, and I think
(20:51):
that's something we can do better on. So it's currently
a law in the public The Public Service Act says
that the public service should reflect all of New Zealand.
That's all it says. It doesn't have doesn't say why
being more sinister than that.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Now are you the Labor Party? Now? If you try
to tell me that there's not work class people in government,
that's really I mean when I grew up the Labor Party,
ninety percent of them would have been working class New Zealanders.
Are you is there something going wrong.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, I think I think there is, and I think
that I think that that's in part because of the
changing nature of class in our in our country, but
also because of people's perception about how Parliament is and
it's this place that you, you know, you need to
be a really accomplished person to be able to go.
It's not it's not true. It really is something that
(21:38):
should be there for everyone to feels like they want
to represent their community.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Thank you both so much. I know you've got to go,
so I appreciate you taking the time out to coming
to the studio. It's lovely to have you both here.
Aishaviri and Tim Costly have a great afternoon. Please get
into the chambers and make the numbers up so that
when I watched this after.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, you watch my next speech. I'll let you know
what I'm on.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And you text me and let me know so i'll
watch it. I'll watch it with Beta Bridge so I
don't fall asleep. Not you.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It wasn't personal, Steve Abele, I'm going to let them know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks. It'd be Wellington from nine a m
week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said B focusing in on the issues
that matter Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings News Talk saied Ban.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can you make your.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Lover joining us for politics Thursday. This week is Labour's
Health and Wellington's Issues. Spokeswoman II Shaviral, Good morning. How
are you? Can you bring your microphone a little bit
closer please? Thank you? And National's o Techi mpad costly. Yes,
good morning, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm very well.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Did you go to that big launch last night of
the Saints at Mills Albert.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, I'm going to watch them on Sunday, So you
didn't go? They didn't get no local MP. I'm in Parliament,
I'm working hard. I did. I did manage to make
it up to the Business breakfist this morning with Penny Gower,
but had to be bat down for Selectmney. So I'm
ass the second half. But I'll be at the game
on Sunday supporting the local team and a great company
like middles Albert.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I'm blooming disappointed that the local MP where they took
the big effort to take it all out to the
Kapiti Coast and the MP wasn't there, and I was
watching parliament, so don't tell me you a parliament because
there was seven people in Parliament yesterday afternoon, none of
which I recognized. Not a single person apart from the
green guy with and the ponytail.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
You know, Steve abel Steve Abel Well.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I recognized him because it's hard not to recognize him.
Didn't recognize a single person in parliament.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You didn't watch my speech?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Did you have the speech?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Ah?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What time?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Jesus crushing me?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
What type?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
What time?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I was watching it?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
There's about five fifty answer. That was the if the
debate on the budget statement.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
But then after that, No, no, it was a debate
on some old place in Auckland that they were going
to try and.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Get the bill I was speaking on. Are you If
you hung on for another ten minutes I was there.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I would have been able to recognize somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You've got to let them sell ice creams. They haven't
been selling ice creams in Auckland. They want to sell
ice creams. This's the big issues.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You know what I said to myself, that's in half
an hour. I'll never get back in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't waste Arlington in Auckland, I promise you, my god.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I was watching it thinking there's more empty seats there
in a bloomen You know, I don't know what you described.
There was no one there was he had when you spoke?
Was there only one to you speak?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Do you in Phenis? I would say up our end
of the house where National Labour said that there was
a little more populus than it was down in Green Spots.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
And Mary, one of the things is when when you
vote along party lines on a bill, of course, it's
not a surprise where it's going to go, which way
it's going to go. You know, the government usually has
numbers the opposition don't. We are there, impis are working
elsewhere and the house is empty. But we did have
a member's bill pass last night, the wage theft Bill,
(02:57):
Camilla Balicher's bill, where we had Greens to party, Mary,
Labor and New Zealand first voting to make it illegal
for employers to hold wages withhold wages from from staff.
And that is when you really are biting your fingernails,
wondering which way of ice.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And you got that over. Yeah, we got over the
line without the government Yeah, what do you look at
me like that? For you didn't you couldn't you weren't government.
You didn't get it. They got it through.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well this is the thing about members bill and another
one to get drawn today, hopefully hopefully my one. But
but this is every every batman MP gets to actually
come and bring one idea and put your idea up
and it relies on working clab. What's yours the House?
It's got sixty name it's the Administrative Areas Bill. But
it's all about untangling this messy web of over overlapping
boundaries for government agencies. It really impacts regional New Zealand,
(03:45):
places like Autucky on the outskirts of Wellington really hard
to get access.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm sorry but that sounds almost as boring as watching
Parliament as it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Makes a difference. And that's that's you. Don't you don't
have to listen to me talk about it, but trust me,
if you're an Awtucky you'd love this.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Okay, right, let's talk about the pole. Let's start with
the poll. Latest taxpayer Union Securier poll shows late very
ahead of national four to thirty three percent and Chris
Hipkins is now marginally more popular than the Prime Minister
Christopher Luxean Labor could form a government on these numbers. Tim,
(04:18):
I feel I've got to ask you, why is the
government struggling so much in a popularity.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, look, I mean they post come and go. You know,
I've never really got hung up on them. What I
would say is, you know the other poles that the
other questions they ask that come out with it. It's
really clear that what people are focused on the biggest
issue is how expensive it is in New Zealand to live,
whether that's paying for your groceries, whether that's feeding your family,
whether that is paying for energy for electricity, And that's
(04:50):
the thing that we are focused on. And look, it
is tough. This We're coming out of a really tough recession,
the worst economic conditions in thirty years, and honestly, that
takes time. It takes time until your mortgage refixes. It's
great that the average mortgage now is almost two hundred
bucks a week cheaper, but until you refix your more
because you don't see the different. But I am just
so confident that come the election next year, Keys are
(05:11):
going to be in a much better place than they're
worth three years earlier and that will be the thing
that drives the election result next year.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I sure it's just just a protest folk, given how
tough the economy is and things aren't improving as quickly
as what we want we all want to happen. Do
you reckon you can hold the support to the next election.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think there's a trend there, and of course a
lot can happen in eighteen months, so there's certainly no
no one in labor is counting any chickens. But I
think I probably agree with the sentiment that Tim's mentioned
that people aren't convinced that the economy is turning around
for them for them at this stage, and in Labor
(05:52):
we've thought about that, and we've thought about now, fifteen
months into this government, we need to move beyond just criticizing.
So we're starting to put up our priorities. Jobs, health,
and homes are those key issues that we think the
country wants to see change and that we'll be pushing
on now.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Be fear, I've got to ask you the same question
that I asked your leader yesterday on the same thing.
I mean, you had six years to bring those things
under control and you didn't, So why suddenly are you
becoming popular for saying the same things you said you
were going to do and didn't do again.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Well, we know people voted for a change at the
last election, and that's why we spent a year listening
to what people have to say precisely about that question, Nick,
and I think the thing is they voted for a change,
but this isn't the change they voted for. And I
think about obviously think a lot about the health system,
(06:49):
and I think we need to that's one of the
top two issues that comes up in these polling of
what people are upset about, alongside the economy obviously number
number one. And we need to reflect on the things
we got right. But it's quite clear this isn't the
change people voted for. They didn't vote for their GP
fees to go up, for it to get harder to
(07:09):
see and after ours doctor and so on. So that
is the point of difference. This is a different government
from what we were doing, and we need to offer
New Zealand as a choice in terms of the health
system they need and deserve, in terms of jobs and
access to being able to start on home ownership as well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and look at the point is as you said,
they had six years and coming out and saying jobs
at house health, sort of bingo of what was at
the top of the last poll, when they got worse
under the last under the labor government for years with
a complete majority to do whatever they want the way
they want to do it, and it got de monstrably worse.
(07:47):
That's actually not going to sway people. I'm not focused
on what people are saying about nationally. I'm focused on
the people themselves on what is going to make life better.
And I am just so confident that come the election
next year, you know the cost of living is under control,
that the economy is better. People have a few extra
dollars and their pocket at the end of the week,
(08:07):
they get a few choices, they get some opportunity, and
and the and the direction we're going, and yes it's
been really tough, but we are tracking the right direction.
Think this is what people want.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Do you think Tim that anyone in your organization is
going to take heed to what Rod Juke, the owner
of Briscoe's and Rebel said yesterday on one of our
shows on Ryan's show, that you know it's time now
that you get off your ass. What do you think
that anyone will take any you know, notice of that.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Oh look, I haven't seen those comments, but what you
must have seen in those comments, genuinely have What you've
seen from the from the PM from the start of
the year is that we have to be a country
that stops saying no. This is why we're out in
Auckland and the investment summit today because we have to hustle.
We need more money coming in because yes, healthcare is expensive,
education is expensive. We have to go for growth this year,
(08:52):
so we are off our ars. I mean, look at
what the Trade Minister is doing out there on the
world stage. A free trade agreement in four months. That's
that's amazingly quick. Look at how how focused we are.
And the one thing the Prime Minister brings in particular
is that la to focus on what we're trying to do.
So I can assure you we're hustling because you're right,
we need to make a difference for Kiwis and we
(09:13):
need to keep delivering on that.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
What did you think I show when Rod Duke came out.
I mean I was quite surprised that he was quite
so harsh on them, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I mean I think you see that I didn't. But
there has been a threat of negative commentary from business
as well, which the government has sought to respond to.
But back to the original issue of the poles for
the polls to turn around, it's not just the business
community that needs to feel better. Ordinary New Zealanders need
to feel that they're got more money than they did
(09:45):
earlier in the cycle. And I know the government has
given a tax cut twenty bucks, but people are seeing
that outweighed by the costs that they face. We've just
heard that some of the workers in jobs like cleaning
security will no longer be supported by a living wage.
Those sorts of things also.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I want to I want to talk about that. Let
me let me let me ask you some questions on that.
Because Finance Minister Nichola Willis has announced changes to the
procurement rules. They wanted to give Kiwi companies more contracts.
That might mean government pays more, but they also want
to do away with living wage for all people working
within the government contractors. I love this idea personally. I
love the idea that we are looking within New Zealand
(10:29):
before we look at big multinational international companies. Tim, do
you think that this is actually going to help. And
would you feel happy if we had to secure a
New Zealand company to build a new motorway and o
tacking and pay more than would if we could get
it internationally.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Well, I mean there's some great local companies that are
contributing to I mean you took about Mills Albertts before
that sponsor the Saints, look at Goodman Contractors up and
why can I as well? There are great local companies
that are part of it. What we want to see
is local New Zealand businesses thriving because they employ kiwis,
because they contribute directly to our economy. Of course, we
want money to be coming and staying within our local
(11:08):
economies and not going overseas, but there are also times
when you need either investment from overseas or particular skill
sets and connections that come from that. So of course
there's got to be a bit of a balanced view here.
But I think the right direction to be looking at
is going, how are we making sure that we're really
considering kiwi companies And when we consider them, it might
be a little bit more expensive, but as the greater
(11:29):
economic fly and effect.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Hell of a lot more has to be, doesn't it nice?
I mean, if you're getting like a Mills album, which
we're giving too many plugs to a contract to do
the roading, rather than a Chinese company. You know, they've
got Kiwi's working for them. It's all the money filters
back to New Zealand. I should that can't be a
bad thinking.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
It Well, the procurement rules are the rules of the
road for those government contracts and they set a floor
in terms of wages for people like security guards, people
like cleaners who are working in public services.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Why should they be the living Why should they be
the living age when they're not good?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
New Zealand firm offering good wages can't be outbid by
another firm that's racing to the bottom. That's all it means.
And that is not to the disadvantage of New Zealanders.
It helps many New Zealanders who are on the breadline,
struggling to put you know, take care of their own healthcare,
get their kids to school and so on while working
(12:27):
for the government. I mean, that just seems wrong to me.
So to be able to set a rule to say, yep,
these companies should compete. New Zealand companies can be preferred
in this but in any case, this is a minimum
for the wages. Seems an absolutely important thing that the
government should set out. Well.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I mean, look, if jobs is one of the top three,
then surely jobs for Keywis is a great thing, right,
so we've I think it's reasonable to have this new
economic benefit test in there. The other great thing, of
course about what we're doing is culling more than a
third twenty four of the regulations because it can be
really hard for small local businesses to bid for some
of these contracts because there were seventy one d regulation
(13:07):
and they don't rule.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
They didn't have a hybrid card, they didn't have electric card.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
We've got to be a bit pragmatic, you know, we've
got to get our economy pumping. And the more that
we do that, of course, the more incomes are going
to left. Of course, we'll have people that can afford
you know, electric cars and things in due course. But
let's get our economy cranking. Let's make sure we're supporting
Keywis into work and able to pay the bills, and
we're going to be in a better place.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Politics Thursday with Aishaviri and Tim Costly, shall I want
to start with you on this one. I wanted to
ask about the regional deals. Councils across Wellington Region have
chosen not to apply for a regional deal from the government,
basically free money for an infrastructure project that could make
a real big difference to our greater Wellington area. Wellington,
(13:48):
you know, you're Wellington spokesperson. What do you think, what
do you say? What do you feel?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Well, firstly, I think everyone expects counselors to be working
regionally together for the best interests of the region across
the councils and potty in Wellington City for our infrastructure needs,
which are substantial. I'm not sure how much money was
really on the table though. In this you know, the
(14:15):
government has hasn't offered a lot of money to councils,
so it's not clear to me that a good deal
has gone begging here. In this instance, the Government's been
pretty clear it doesn't have a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
But they surely should have put something forwards, thinking that,
you know, there might have been something there. Even if
the money wasn't there, there was an opportunity to show
the government what needs to happen in the city.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well I think It's pretty important to know how much
money is on the table, to be honest, because that's
what's overseas. These city deals have unlocked a lot of
infrastructure development and growth, particularly in the United Kingdom. So
they're a good thing to do. You can't do it
out of nothing. These things are expensive.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Was there money on the table? Tom as well as
then drop the ball on this one. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I think it's really disappointed, like we are doing everything
we can as a government to go for growth this year,
to attract capital. We talked about the investment summit that's
on today, earlier infrastructures, right, so here's an opportunity and
eighteen other regions got together, councils combined around the country
and put a bit in because if you don't have
one and there's nothing there and I look at what
(15:22):
is a good question?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It is a good question. Was do we know how
much the pot of gold was? Was were a pot
of gold?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But this is the point right that, yes, we are
going to sign a regional deal this year. There will
be more regional deals next year, but.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
We have to look at what was there a pot
of gold?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes, there is money to go with this region.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
We know do we know how much?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
No, that's a budget thing and I'll let them you know,
appropriate minister.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And at this budget coming up, we will hear that
there is twenty nine million dollars that are going into
this funt.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You'll hear how much is going to it when it's
announced which ones are successful, because they are all slightly.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
So we won't hear it in this budget, or we
will hear it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, I'm clearly not announcing happening in the budget to day,
but are.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You just said that we'll hear in the budget how
much money is in there for this Well.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You'll see big picture ones, but for specific persent a deal.
I just look at what's happening at the next one up.
The other half of my elector and Jude Fenowa working
with one or two, working with Palmerston North. They called
it going for growth from coast to coast. It's about
building on our existing strength. It's transport, its logistics, it's agriculture,
it's innovation, electrifying some of our horticulture industries. Things like that.
It is fantastic, it's exciting. I want to see that
(16:22):
one get over the line. I'm working really hard to
try and advocate for that, but I've got nothing to
work with at the Wellington then because they couldn't get together.
So it's really hard if they won't meet us halfway.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Can I just ask you personally a personal question to you,
what is it with your leaders that wants to have
a crack at Wellington? John Key firstly said we're dead.
I mean he was right, but he was the wrong decade.
Now we've got you know, your current Prime Minister, Christopher
Luxan is calling us lame.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh well, and I think it's calling new lamo.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I think I took a person.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think every Wellington right paw will be really disappointed
that that their councils across the region couldn't get together
and at least put something in and say well, this
is what we'd like to have a conversation about, this
is what we'd like. We couldn't even get to step
one and I think that is this. I don't think
that's an unfair criticism Ashure.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Do you believe that Wellington didn't put a submission in
or didn't put a plan in because they thought there
was no money there? Is that what you're saying, Well, that's.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
What I understand, But for the Council to speak about
how it made that decision. But look, I think it's
is this where we're at with a prime minister calling
a group of elected officials elected by our city laime
o like, at least Wellington is dying that John Key
when he said that lest there's an economic argument in
(17:34):
there just calling people names. It's a bit disappointing and sad.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
New Zealand First have introduced a members bill to take
DEI Diversity, Equity and Inclusion practices out of public service.
Currently the public service has to promote a diverse workforce. Aisher,
Is this just culture war politics? Is this really a problem?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah? I don't think it's a problem. I think it
is trying to generate a little bit of differentiation for
New Zealand First, a little bit of crumpiness to be
able to generate some excitement about among their voters. But
really it's a bit of a non issue. And I
thought the thing that made the cynicism of this pretty
clear is that when journalists Winston Peters yesterday, why is
(18:18):
it that the New Zealand First Constitution says that you
have to have a representation of genders and regions and
ethnicities and so on. So it looks like one rule
for the goose and one for the gander in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
First Tim Trump's doing this in the years, say, is
this just Winston Peter's following his lead? Is it him
trying to be New Zealand's version of Trump.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Look, I don't know. I haven't actually seen the bill.
If it gets drawn out, I'll have a read. But
I do think public service there is room for improvement.
And the bill that needs to get drawn out at
twelve o'clock today is my Minister of Area's bill.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Getting tired. I don't need something to put me to.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's where my focus is. That's what I think we
could do with members bill to really improve public service quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Because I know we've all got to go shortly. How
important is diversity in politics?
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Is shad well in politics? Remember that our house in
Parliament is a house of representatives. Our job is to
represent the people. Now, part of that is representing them geographically,
but it's also you know, making sure our democracy is
stronger when all voices are heard in Parliament. So I
think it's important.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Tim. What do you think? Because you know, watching my
half an hour of a dead empty Parliament chambers yesterday.
There was a lot of diversity in there and there
wasn't much question about that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, and look, I think you know, when we think diversity,
it's really easy to look at things that you can
see from the outside. But let's not forget diversity of
thought and diversity of experience. There are some things that
people look, I'm here, I am a forty five year
old white male, but actually I bring some pretty unique
experiences that not many people, if any, in that house have,
So I think we want to you know, there is
a broad range when we look at diversity.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well, because you're a helicopter pilot and being in the
Air Force and you've been, is that that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We all mention it?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I mean no, no, I'm just asking because I mean,
I think that's I think that's right. I think you've
actually been in the military. I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
There's only two of us that probably served overseas on operations.
But also some of the places that my career has
been have been really different to where ICE's career have gone.
We need we need all of it, right, we need
all of the breadth of experience that that people.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Can You tell us who the other one that's served over.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Vanessa Weenak, National MP for Banks Pininsula and she was
a doctor in the Army but served in Afghanistian and
the Steamore.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Oh well, I mean, I think that's fabulous.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I agree that's diversity. I actually agree that's diversity.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Do you Yeah, I do. And I also think, you
know one of the things. But we're not perfect on
diversity in many respects. In Parliament, would be great to
see more working class voices, for instance, and also in
the in the public service. I know Asian New Zealanders
feel like the services that they need are often not
led by people who understand their community, and I think
(20:51):
that's something we can do better on. So it's currently
a law in the public The Public Service Act says
that the public service should reflect all of New Zealand.
That's all it says. It doesn't have doesn't say why
being more sinister than that.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Now are you the Labor Party? Now? If you try
to tell me that there's not work class people in government,
that's really I mean when I grew up the Labor Party,
ninety percent of them would have been working class New Zealanders.
Are you is there something going wrong.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, I think I think there is, and I think
that I think that that's in part because of the
changing nature of class in our in our country, but
also because of people's perception about how Parliament is and
it's this place that you, you know, you need to
be a really accomplished person to be able to go.
It's not it's not true. It really is something that
(21:38):
should be there for everyone to feels like they want
to represent their community.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Thank you both so much. I know you've got to go,
so I appreciate you taking the time out to coming
to the studio. It's lovely to have you both here.
Aishaviri and Tim Costly have a great afternoon. Please get
into the chambers and make the numbers up so that
when I watched this after.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Okay, you watch my next speech. I'll let you know
what I'm on.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And you text me and let me know so i'll
watch it. I'll watch it with Beta Bridge so I
don't fall asleep. Not you.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It wasn't personal, Steve Abele, I'm going to let them know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks. It'd be Wellington from nine a m
week days, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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