New Zealand First has introduced a member's bill to Parliament which would define in law what a woman is - but is this really necessary?
Also, Pope Francis has died at the age of 88. What's his legacy, and what do you hope to see in the next Pope?
To answer those questions, PSA national secretary and former Wellington City Councillor Fleur Fitzsimons and Franks Ogilvie director and political commentator Brigitte Morten joined Nick Mills for Thursday Faceoff - moved forward due to ANZAC Day.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all visits here on Thursday. Starts by.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sunday. Fay.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I don't care if Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday hearts it Thursday,
never back Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Ye, we're right, it's Friday face off. Oh my gosh.
You know what if I could sell the stories that
we tell in the ad breaks or before we go
to air, I could be a very wealthy man, couldn't.
I just think about what we've discussed this morning. Friday
face off on a Thursday flur for Simons, Oh my gosh, flur,
good morning and welcome, Good morning man. You've given me
(01:16):
some stories this morning. And Bridget Morton, who is from
Frank's Ogilvy which is a law firm. And I don't
think of you as a lawyer. I think of you
as a political commentator. I don't know why they put
down that you're a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I mean, well, that is how I am going to
make my money my day job.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yeah, this is fun, this commentary stuff, but it's the
lauring that pays the mortgage, and.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Of course those who don't recognize Fleur's name, which should do.
You always need to have one name mate like Madonna
or all Prince, so that people who are automatically know
is from the PSA's national secretary and also an ex
Wellington City councilor I'm going to ask you. I mean,
it's not on our list. I don't think it's on
our list, but I'm going to ask you about what
you think of your comrade standing for mayoralty as well.
(02:00):
I'll ask you as well. Right, let's start with something
that I'm feeling pretty uncomfortable about talking about it, but
hopefully you guys will make me feel at ease and
we'll be able to talk about it. New Zealand versus
lodged A members build to define what a woman is
in law and it's had a lot of attention after
Winston's absolutely crazy, fiery interview on Ora and Z Yes yesterday.
(02:25):
I'm going to start with you on this one flirt.
Is this necessary or is it another example of the
Trump style political speak of Winston Peters Well, First.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Of all, I want to say that it is a
cruel and nasty attack on trans people and it won't work.
What I would say is that it says more about
Winston Peters and his own insecurities and his weaknesses, and
the fact that New Zealand First have nothing to say
about important issues like the cost of living, poverty. They've
(03:01):
run out of ideas. But I also think they're looking
to America and borrow talking points from there. Where actually
those politics of punching down, if you like, has really
had its moment. If you look at what's happening to
Trump and Musk, the really overreached, look at Canada, look
at Australia, progressives are doing better. This kind of distraction
(03:25):
will cause harm, and it's deliberately done for political gain,
to drive division, and it will do some of that.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Do we have to come up with I mean, do
we have to work out what a woman really is?
I mean, is that something that we I mean, have
we now gone past that and say, well, now we
live in a society where where do we just need
to have freedom?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
It's a weak, pathetic approach by a generation of men
who grew up in the nineteen fifties with gender norms
about women that are completely out of touch with twenty
twenty five. Why would a grown man like Winston Peters
feel the need to define the identity of anybody else.
It's pathetic and it's none of his business and he
should stay out of.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Bridget your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think I agree in terms of this spell, I
think is unworkable and will achieve division rather than actually
looking at the questions we need to answer. Because there
is no doubt that it is not a black and
white issue. There is many many people that are concerned
about the I'm going to call the erasing of this
the woman identity, so being called a person with a cervix,
(04:31):
or that people are pregnant people as intended to pregnant women.
I know many of my friends swing voters across this
political section who do not like that part of the
identity being reversed or being raised as such. But the
problem is when you take a bill like this, is
that it actually does the same thing. Because what he
is saying is that my essence of being a woman
(04:52):
is reduced to what my biological parts are. That's not
who I am.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
As a woman.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You've got two women sitting in front of you, we
would have different definitions about what makes us feminine or
less feminine, or what's important to us about being a
woman and therefore this is not a space where it
needs to be defined. Is going off the back of
that UK case which I think you can over egg
(05:16):
it was a classic you know, statutor interpretation. This is
me with my lawyer hat on about what it means
to be a woman in this particular.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Piece of legislation.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
And I think those are the questions we actually need
to ask because in some areas, and I think sport's
one of them, that we need to look carefully at
about whether or not we're making sure that sport is
still going to be encouraging to women, particularly at an
elite level, when there's people able to compete against them
that may not have come in with that biology. So
(05:46):
those are the questions that need to be answered. Those
are the things that people are actually concerned about. Let's
have that discussion rather than trying to do this sort
of whitewash across the top.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Can I ask you about the actual interview. I mean,
it's the more people have seemed to be wanting to
talk about the interview, which is a good thing than
the Bill.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Fleur.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
What do you think I mean I think that, like you,
Nick Corndan is a professional New Zealand broadcaster. He is
well regarded, he is fair. I've been interviewed by him
many times. He does not take a political position on issues.
And it was an unjustified personal attack by Winston Peters that,
given the legislative role of radio and New Zealand and
its public funding, was not only unlawful but deeply inappropriate,
(06:29):
and he should apologize. Willie Jackson and Kitty Allen, when
they did similar things with Radio New Zealand and TV
and said were actually much less in terms of what
they did. Both apologize, They fronted up, they apologize. That's
what a decent person should do, and that's what Winston
Peters should do. I bet he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
What did you say about those people born in the
fifties and forties and thirties, I mean they don't forties
and thirties, fifties probably maybe do apologize, but the forties
and thirties don't apologize. Briget bridget your thoughts on the interview.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I mean it's perfect political play from Winston Peters. His
audience is grumpy about what they see is Wellington centric
left wing media, not telling their voices and making them
be heard. So he is completely outly paying to his audience,
which is why is Fleur is right. He will never
apologize because he has got the value out of it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I apologized.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Taking credit.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Older men don't like apologizing. Did you not know that?
Speaker 5 (07:27):
I'm aware of this? Most mean to be honest, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
That's going to become like a David Cunliff, you know,
I'm sorry for bigger man moment. So yeah, So I
think he's absolutely played the politics perfectly to his base.
And ultimately that's a discussion to be held about We
know anyone who's worked in politics that there is a
discussion between the press secretaries and those producers about who's
(07:52):
coming on and when they're coming on and getting them on,
and it's always a bargain and there's always, you know,
a social contract that exists.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So that's exactly what's happened to here.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
They both had to get value out of that interview.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's probably not done that badly for corn Down either.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, for sure, I said this morning, and I kind
of wanted to get your view on this side. I
think he's Winston at the moment. It's almost I don't
know carbon copying what Trump's doing. You know, Trump's getting
a whole lot of coverage on stuff. I'll do the
same woman. You know, immigration hasn't done Winston hasn't done
the immigration thing yet. But you can guarantee that it's
(08:24):
almost like, Sis, this is working. I think I might
make it my stand your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
On that Winston wins when Winston is able to be
himself like that is his brand through and through, and
he speaks to a particular group in our community and
a group of voters, and they are really invited to
their views and their votes, and so he only needs
to talk to that group. Of course he's going to
He's looking ahead. He's got eighteen months well basically six
(08:48):
months really until the election campaign, you know, starts off.
He's got to get that vote up to make sure
that he can be a coalition partner again. There's just
no way that he's going todal from being Winston.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I'm personally loving it because it brings some excitement to
It's pretty boring coalition without him, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I think what it does is it drives division and
hate within the community, and it gives permission to people
to be violent and nasty, to marginalize communities in New Zealand.
And that's the risk of it. Really Trump needed to
get the you know, a large portion of the public
to vote for him. Winston Peter's under our electoral system
only needs five percent. But look at Georgina Bayer elected
(09:28):
in the wided Upper a trans woman. Yep, I know
how New Zealanders feel about these issues. I don't think
it's a long term strategy for Winston Peter's in New Zealand. First,
I think they will run out of steam on this.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think we've sort of also all as a nation,
grown up a bit with that, haven't we. We just said, well,
it is what it is, you know. Yeah, pretty simplified
to me. Right, let's keep going with Friday Face Off
on a Thursday. I've got a couple of text from
people saying, get my days right. I know it's Thursday,
but it's Friday face Off. The show still gets called
Friday face Off. I made that executive decision, might get
(10:01):
told off by the executive producer after the show, but
let's go with it. Friday face on our Thursday. Everybody,
it's a Thursday. We got that right. We have political
commentator Bridget Morton on the show and Flurford Simon's from
she's the PSA National secretary and ex Wellington City Council.
I don't know why I throw that ex Wellington City councilor.
(10:23):
Pope Francis has died at the age of eighty eight,
with his funeral to be held on Saturday. I'm going
to start with you on this. I mean, it's very sad,
and I get all the Catholic stuff, but I thought
eighteen minutes on television New Zealand yesterday, the day before yesterday,
and and then about another ten minutes, they're overdoing it
(10:44):
a little bit. Tell me what his legacy is.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Look, I think that he was a different kind of
moral leader. He really redirected the Catholic Church back to
its core role as a voice for the poor, for
the dispossessed. He took a firm stand against the war
in Palestine. He called the situation in Gaza an extremely
grave humanitarian situation. He's been an unflinching global champion on
(11:12):
the climate crisis. According to the Guardian, he's challenged the
worst aspects of capitalism, but he's really brought the Catholic
Church back to its core, and I think that will
be his legacy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we
see a replacement who also carries on that legacy.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
See, I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure. I mean,
I know that the liberal people think he didn't do enough,
and the conservative cy think he did too much. I mean,
he didn't, but he really didn't do for me, bridget
anything really concrete. Didn't say yes that priest King Mary.
He didn't say yes, we will accept the trans people.
(11:48):
He didn't say you know, he just sort of put
his toes in the water.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, as anyone has seen contlact like I have, I
do see myself as an.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Expert in Catholic Church politics. And if you've seen.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
That movie, it's exactly this point that you've got these
blocks of conservatism and liberalism, and they both think that
that the pope who died in that circumstance hadn't gone
as far enough to those edges as possible. And I
think there is always a risk of that. I think
you've got to be careful here about just how conservative
the Catholic Church is as an entity. So for anyone
(12:24):
to basically make that giantly towards you know, say marriage
of priests or something like that would be an extreme position.
You have to do it slowly and slowly and bring
that culture along. And I think some of those things
is what you've seen. I think one of the biggest
ones to me was actually the fact that he's sort
of brought in instead of division with other religions, really
bought in Judaism and Islam as as. You know that
(12:44):
that actually brothers sort of in that area, and you
saw that. You know, he was highly critical of what
was happening in Gaza, but he was also highly critical
of the rise of antisemitism and the fact that Judaism
needed to be able to exist and that we couldn't
allow that to happen again.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So I think that's the real power.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He was big on global warming as well, which is
not something that popes normally have got involved.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
In with that's right. And concern for refugees, yes, he
had a very deep concern for the dispossessed in the world,
poor people exactly, and that's the Catholic Church at its best.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Do you think he might have been a unionist at heart?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Of course, yes, I really think he would it be well,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Once going to go back to conclave with my reference
for everything to the Catholic Church and the treatment of
the nuns, I just think that they could probably they
may need a union representative flour.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
There are problematic aspects of it, but redirecting the church
back to that core about being about the poor, the dispossessed.
And even in the way he lived, he was like that, Well, we.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Had an old car, didn't he When he wanted to
drive around, he got an old car, an old bomb,
put him in the back seat and away he went.
He was about the people. You know, Ford focus was it?
I mean, you know was a pretty old Ford focus too.
It wasn't a brand new Ford focus. Let's be honest
about that. I want to also ask you, guys, I'm
just looking to see what time I got to break.
Wellington City Council Chief Executive Matt Prosser, the new guy.
(14:01):
Have you met him?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I haven't anyone met him. No, We've tried to meet him.
I doesn't want to know about us anyway. We've got
a new chief executive, Matt Prosser is his name. He's
been paid five hundred and fifty thousand a year, alongside
nearly fifty thousand and moving cost after relocating from his
previous job as the council Chief Executive for Dorset Doorshit Dorset, Dorset,
(14:24):
Dorset and UK. I've got to start with you on
this one, Flew. I mean, you know what the old
one was getting, and you know everything about it as
a salary too high, especially something coming into New Zealand,
you and not knowing that you know the surrounds, not
knowing the situation.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Well, to me, it's unfeathomably high five hundred thousand dollars
a year, as I don't think anybody is worth that
much money. It's just so much money. But actually when
you compare it with the private sector, it's probably below
what what those kind of roles get in the privacy.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
But let's argue this point a little bit. He's not
in the private set.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
No, I agree, And.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Like in the private sector, if I'm not doing my
job tomorrow, I get fired. He ain't getting fired the city,
you know, the chief executive of warning City Council and fight.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
No, I think it's excessive. I think it's too much money.
And if you compare it to what the previous chief executive,
Barbara Mkira got, it is more than her. I don't
think that's a good precedent to have a woman who
was on less than a man coming in from the
United Kingdom to do the same job.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Right, I never even thought of that point, But that
was a negotiation that his people must have done. I mean, Bridget,
what are your thoughts. I mean, you know you dealing
with these high rollers and you know what sort of
money they're earning through your profession. Profession, so do you
feel as high I.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Do think it is what the private market, you know, demands,
and I think that's possibly the situation they were in.
What concerns me though, and this may be an unpopular opinion,
but you compare it to what counselors get. It's almost
about four to five times what a counselor gets paid.
And for counselors, they are way more publicly accountable. They
have to publicly audition for their jobs every few years,
(15:58):
in which they have to put themselves up. They get
a lot more flak in the media than any of
the chief executives do. And we always bemoan the fact
that you don't get high quality counselors. You know, we
look at that in Wellington at the moment we say
we've got this highly educated, highly engaged politically base of people,
but we still struggle to get a lot of people
(16:18):
putting their hands up for counsel And I know that
pay is not the only factor, but it is a
big factor for some people in terms of if they've
got a family, they're not going to go to something.
So I do think that the balance has gotten off
and it's kind of got to a real extreme when
you look at those sort of two figures that actually
they should be much more comparable than what we've currently got.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I'd argue with you on that that the talent of
the people around the table are most of the majority
of them would be extremely overpaid for the talent that
they bring us. And the other thing You've got to
remember us and I'm getting a veal. We stared out
here for Fleur what's lucky.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
We're not on to name names. Did you want to
go that far?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
No, but I'm saying and the CEO, I mean he
or she is responsible for a billion dollars, it's at
a billion dollar company. Now, the counselors don't have to
be responsible for that. They they're the people around the
table that make them decisions, but they're not.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I don't have a problem with the Sea getting paid
what they are worth, or the fact that they could
get they're paid more than the counselors. But what I'm
saying is you've got this extreme at the moment where
it's it's four to five times yeap. So the balance
has got off there and it comes down to this
political public debate that we think that politicians, we demand
a lot of them, but we don't want to pay
(17:32):
for that talent, and then we don't understand why we
haven't got that talent around the table.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
But it's deeper at Wellington City Council as well, because
there actually is a massive power and balance between the
executive Leadership team and the chief executives and the counselors
because it operates in a deeply undemocratic way. So yes,
it's the money, but it's also the culture there and
I'm really hopeful the CEE will reverse that culture and
actually take the mayor and counselors seriously, and which means
also taking the public seriously, because for too long Wellington
(17:58):
City Council has written off residents and democratically elected counselors
and it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Can I just really quickly because I've got to go
to an ambrak, but I I want you to. I
want to ask you about Andrew Little. Obviously you'll be
supportive because he eats on the same plate that you
eat on, so you'll be supportive, but quickly your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
He's a great guy. The thing I would say about
Andrew Little two observations. First of all, very serious person
but also self deprecating. The other thing is, unlike many
politicians and political leaders, when you speak to him, he
genuinely listens. You can tell he's listening. He's not on
his phone, he's not distracted. He's listening to understand. And
I think that sets him up well to be a
good mayor.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is he exciting enough for us? Bridget I want an exciting.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I don't want an exciting mayor. I want a competent mayor.
And I want someone that's going to do the jobs
that we need to. And just look at the pollingers
out there, everyone's back to base.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Are you running neck?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
No?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Well, I'm yawning. I'm yawning out.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You wouldn't be yawning.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
If you were running neck like you would be highly energized.
So you know, put your money when your mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Is told off, told off, Time to go to a
news break. Then we can have this discussion off air.
I'll be told off. Yeah, we'll leave it at that.
We now have an adult in the room. Is what
a lot of people are saying. That's what I'm getting
a lot and we'll go with that. We now have
an adult in the room. Friday face off with Bridget
(19:19):
Morton and Flurford Simon's are the Wellington City Council in
their wisdom we've seen we're talking about the council are
trying to charge commercial rates for Airbnb people that use
who supply Airbnb. So Wellington Pension has taken a part
time job as a teacher aide fearing that he couldn't
(19:41):
afford to live in Wellington. Of the council. Actually their
proposal comes to fruition. It's pretty damn bad out there. Bridget.
I want to know whether you think that if someone
that's got a little you know, using their house as
an Airbnb and got a bedroom out there should be
charged commercial rates, which by the way, are three point
seven times what yours mine and FLIR's rates aren't.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Generally, I think this is lazy, dumb policy. And often
I find counsels apply these commercial differential rates in this
way where they just see commercial businesses as a money
pot that they can go after them, because honestly, if
they went after every household with that kind of increase
in rates, they would have an uproar. But so they
(20:25):
offload some of that onto the commercial entities.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I think this is a classic one.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I actually in that nerd that went and went and
looked at what information they put out as part of
the consultation on this. They have done no proper cost
benefit analysis. They have not gone Okay, so if we
increase what that differential rate is, what is that likely
to do to the availability of commodation in Wellington? And
b what is the benefit actually of getting these people
(20:49):
in to Wellington? Because we know if people come visit Wellington,
they spend money Wellington that in the cafes, they you know,
going to events, they're going to bars, and none of
that exists, which is why I call it lazy dumb policy.
They've just seen another money pot out there. The compliance
costs on this will just be ridiculous. I just think
that they just need to actually do some simplification and
(21:11):
actually concentrate more on bringing expenditure down rather than wasting
time on trying to pick off some widowers and teachers
who are trying to earn additional money in a costal
in christ Fleur.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We had a caller, amazing caller on the show when
we discussed it, saying that they had a B and
B and very successful and you know, I had a
lot people staying and just in their home. Just you
come and stay with them and they'll cook your breakfast
and you go about it. They were in the top
one percent of you know, people's approval rate, doing really
really well. Council knocked on their door twenty five thousand
(21:46):
extra a year in rates. They basically fought the council
then ended up selling their property, selling their Airbnb and
moving out. I mean, this is rubbish, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
I think it is. I think it's really a silly
way to go forward. But I do think there is
an issue that people are using empty property for Airbnb
instead of adding to the rental market, and that is
a problem for Wellington, particularly when we've got a housing shortage,
So I understand the council wanting to incentivize that, but
(22:18):
I think rooms within houses are different, and I understand
that they are going to treat them as different. I
guess I would say there's also an issue around affordability
for people on fixed incomes and rates, and an idea
that I know put into a city council has advanced
is that you can make the rates a debt against
your estate if you're a homeowner on a fixed income
and nothing is paid in rates until you pass away
(22:40):
or until your.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
House is sold.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And I think those kind of ideas do allow people
a bit more flexibility and freedom because.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I was going to do that because that's their inheritance
they're giving away, and now it might.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
It will be a small portion of any inheritance on
the average value of a house in Wellington, So it
may well be that those people can have a slightly
better life while they're alive and their children have a
slightly smaller inheritance. It could actually work quite well. It
won't be for everyone, but at the end of the day,
Wellington has a lot of infrastructure issues that we need
to fund and we can't fund them through constant rates.
(23:10):
Increases and the way that we're doing it now, So
let's think about some other options for how we can
meet the city's costs.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Gosh, I hate that idea of that's like that reverse
mortgage stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Really what sort of But.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's a very small portion of your overall value of
your home. So say your rates were four thousand dollars
a year for ten years. If you look at that
and your house sales for five hundred thousand, then it's
actually a small portion that your children would then have
to cover when they can sell the house, and do
sell the house so you.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Could work for't Obviously you haven't looked at your rate
rates bill lately because it's you know, it's bloom and high,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
Mine is on the higher side.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, well so it's mine. I hate them. I hate them.
It's twenty two minutes to twelve. Don't start me up
on rates. You were part of that problem. You started it.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Well, we've got to fix the water infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, gosh, let's have a discussion when there's an ad
break about that. You've abuse me. I'll abuse you back
twenty two minutes to twelve. Flir Fit Simon, Gosh, she
was on the council. What's her fault?
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Well, I will not shy away from the fact that
we needed to increase rates. But what also local government
needs are better tools for collecting funding. It shouldn't just
be all about rates.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, it's Wellington Mornings, as you just heard, and it's
Friday face off on a Thursday because it's a long weekend. Flurford,
Simon and Bridget Morton in the studio. For me, they
must be the two only other people apart from me
and Ethan that are working in Wellington over this period
of day. Are you?
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I mean as your office for empty, pretty empty and
there's no cues in the cafes.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
We're about half full. But they're working pretty hard back
in my office. So you don't say that they're not working.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You said you've got a phone call that you didn't
have before and because so you've been pretty excited by
it all the break. Anyway, let's talk about our Prime
Minister being in Europe and he's extending its deployment of
one hundred New Zealand Defense for staff training Ukraine troops
in the UK, bringing the total contribution to Ukraine to
one hundred and fifty two million dollars. It comes at
(25:13):
a time where Christopher Luxm meets with Sir Kia Starma
Bridget What do you think of the trip so far
and what about this money? Can we afford this sort
of money?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, I think there's two things.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
One is that we've got an international obligation and I
think you can see that coming quite strongly from this
government in this time of uncertainty, that these international trips
and these relationship building and basically putting our money where
our mouth is is really really important. Also, don't interestimate
how much of our defense force. We know we've got
(25:45):
a recruitment issue. They've put the big spend in terms
of the equipment and infrastructure, but ultimately our defense force
is there because they want to serve. So this is
the type of thing that they do want to do,
They want to be deployed. This is a good way
of making sure that our military is kept current. So
it's not just a pure numbers and money game. It's
also about our skill development and our recruitment as well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Fliff Simers, do do we actually put a point where
we say enough is enough, we can't afford anymore? I
you know, I know, I simplify it, But I say,
how many hip replacements could we do for one hundred
and fifty two. I understand we've got to be part
of and I understand, but if it keeps on going
and going and going, we're not in the financial situation
to keep supporting it.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
No, I wouldn't fault the government on this. I disagree
with you. I think that it is the price you
pay for being a democratic nation in this world, and
I think we've done the right thing by aligning ourselves
with the United Kingdom and Europe on this. I just
think it's disappointing to see the government showing off about
its defense commitment at the very same time as they're
cutting civilian defense personnel. And these are personnel who do
(26:45):
absolutely critical work in supporting our combat ready military. So
the government can put say all it likes about how
much money it's putting into defense equipment, but if they're
doing so at the same time, is dismissing these absolutely
critical civilian personnel. It just won't work.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You just got to put your union cap on all
the time. Don't you just got to come every time
you're going to give us that, you know, I couldn't
look after my comrades. Yeah, I got I get it,
I get it. I support you, I support you changing careers. Now,
Nelson woman at fifty two change decided that she wanted
to be a tyler, you know, and actually started an apprenticeship.
(27:27):
Now she's fully qualified at fifty two years old as
a tyler. Bridget I think that it's amazing. She's fifty six,
not fifty two. Sorry, I'm looking at the clock thinking
he's telling me fifty. She's fifty six years old, not
fifty two. I mean the photos of her, she looks
like an incredible woman. What do you think about people
changing their careers. I mean a lot of people I
(27:47):
know who have changed to being a lawyer later in life.
I mean, you know, they seeing how much money you
guys make.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I wouldn't say that me changing to be a lawyer,
you know, in my thirties was later in life.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Neik, But no, no, I said, I know a lot
of But.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That is essentially what I did.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I worked in politics for a decade and then decided
that actually, I know, I wanted to go into private
sector law. And I know because you joked about the
fact that me being a political commentator obviously still got
my toe in the water about politics, but my day
to day job as a lawyer, I had to upscale
fast across all the legal procedures about court, about litigation.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It was a steep learning curve.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And I think that's the bit that people miss in
terms of changing careers, is actually taking that leap that
you have to go from being someone that's kind of
an expert or high up in a particular career and
go back to being the novice, and that you.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Have to put the work in.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
So I think it's absolutely admirable that she's done this.
I do think, you know, there's a bit of focus
on her being fifty six. She's got at least ten
years in her career. She's got a long time to
be a titler. It's not like she's kind of, you know,
making a very late minute and maybe getting out.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Of let's be I mean, let's let's be cut to
the chase on this, because you know, you're a very
young woman, fifty six year old knocking on knocking on
doors looking for a job. She'd have no hope finding
you know, I mean, that's pretty hard to find it
at fifty six without a trade or without a profession.
Let's really cut to and people would just look at
her and six she's two.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
But I think, I mean, we've got a current environment.
We're coming out of a recession. We have got a
number of people unemployed. This is exactly what people need
to be thinking about, is whether or not they have
got their ability to retrain. And this seems like she's
seen this is something that people need. You know, she's
gone into an industry where there is still a need
for and you can see that need being for the
(29:33):
next years. I can't see AI being able to tie
my bathroom for me, So you know, she's made a
smart career move.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There may it could maybe it could. Have you ever
flu have you ever thought about changing your career? I mean,
once you're a union person, you can't you know, you
can't change that, can you? You can't cut? What else
can you do?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Now?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Totally?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
I actually wish I'd trained as a teacher. My mum
was an English teacher for forty years.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Young enough to do that.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
And I have thought about it and I would consider
doing it. You have to do a year, so yeah,
definitely would consider being a teacher. I think making a
contribution to young people every day is an incredible to
change the world, and I think teachers do an incredible job.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Imagine having to live on that salary compared to the
salary you got. Now, now, before you start coming back
at that, I'm going to take a break.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The Friday face of.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Hot.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh my god, I could make some money or what
we talk about in the air break. I even told
two of my guests, No I won't say that on air,
but I'll tell you later. Yeah, gosh, what we talk
about hots and knots. Let's go bridget mooton what's your hots?
A notts?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
My heart?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Are going to give credit whr creditors due and as
to the people managing the Melling Interchange roadworks over the
last like week or so.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I know this is very boring, very.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
You know, local, but you know they did they had
to do some emergency works. They've done it well, managered,
They've done it over quiet traffic period. It's very clear
what is happening for somebody who dries through that area.
I just think we need credit to some of the
road cones sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And you're not hot, might not just wake me up with.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Being boring.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well, I'm going to keep on this rund because it's
about the Privileges Committee that I am not on. I
am frustrated that party MALDI has got a real opportunity
here to actually change some of the teacunger and the
cultural practices of our House of Parliament to reflect the
diversity of our community. And instead they won't even turn
out to the Privileges Committee and try and fight that.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
They're all about the protest right.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Flur fors Simons, you'r hots and not to please start
with your hot.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
The beginning of the Nepal season with the Pulse launching
their campaign in Wellington, I'm very excited about the team
they've got. I'm very excited about all the games that
are coming up, and I am very proud to be
a strong Polese supporter and I'm hoping for a great season.
Mi not is the millipede infestation, it'll feudal Bay and
(31:51):
the international coverage that it's got. And I want to
commend the local ward Council in eurroed In abdu Ahman
for standing up for the community. He was on heather
Dy Plicellen last night talking about what a horrible issue
this is for people.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
To deal with.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
They have to sweep them out of their house rest.
They are awful. They come on people's faces. It is
a disgusting issue.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
And I think they got introduced to Wellington. When you're
on the council.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
It's bound to be my fault.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
They need a targeted rate and we would get rid
of them.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I reckon that. Ethan told you to say that, because
Ethan's been odd to be about doing it all week.
I said, who cares about a few little nig blitz
And you would.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Care if you lived in a fidal bay.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'd have to be out spraying them. I spray them.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
It's constant. You can't get rid of them. They breed
by the hundred.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I do feel for you people. Where is it again.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
In surrounding suburbs? They are on the crawl?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I called it Ohariobay the other day to radio. That's bad,
that's bad, but me fired, that's me fired. Thank you
both very much. Have a Hopefully you're going to do
something with ANZAC data tomorrow. You're going to flourish.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Nodding your head, She'll always go to a service.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Good on you, well well done both of you. I'm
very proud of both of you. Thank you very much.
Have a great day tomorrow and let's commemorate the people
that have done wonderful things for New Zealand to make
us live the way we do. Thank you both, lady.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b Wellington's official week interview. It's
Friday face with Kudovic Property Management, a better rental experience
for all visits here on Thursday. Starts by.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sunday. Fay.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I don't care if Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday hearts it Thursday,
never back Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Ye, we're right, it's Friday face off. Oh my gosh.
You know what if I could sell the stories that
we tell in the ad breaks or before we go
to air, I could be a very wealthy man, couldn't.
I just think about what we've discussed this morning. Friday
face off on a Thursday flur for Simons, Oh my gosh, flur,
good morning and welcome, Good morning man. You've given me
(01:16):
some stories this morning. And Bridget Morton, who is from
Frank's Ogilvy which is a law firm. And I don't
think of you as a lawyer. I think of you
as a political commentator. I don't know why they put
down that you're a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I mean, well, that is how I am going to
make my money my day job.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yeah, this is fun, this commentary stuff, but it's the
lauring that pays the mortgage, and.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Of course those who don't recognize Fleur's name, which should do.
You always need to have one name mate like Madonna
or all Prince, so that people who are automatically know
is from the PSA's national secretary and also an ex
Wellington City councilor I'm going to ask you. I mean,
it's not on our list. I don't think it's on
our list, but I'm going to ask you about what
you think of your comrade standing for mayoralty as well.
(02:00):
I'll ask you as well. Right, let's start with something
that I'm feeling pretty uncomfortable about talking about it, but
hopefully you guys will make me feel at ease and
we'll be able to talk about it. New Zealand versus
lodged A members build to define what a woman is
in law and it's had a lot of attention after
Winston's absolutely crazy, fiery interview on Ora and Z Yes yesterday.
(02:25):
I'm going to start with you on this one flirt.
Is this necessary or is it another example of the
Trump style political speak of Winston Peters Well, First.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Of all, I want to say that it is a
cruel and nasty attack on trans people and it won't work.
What I would say is that it says more about
Winston Peters and his own insecurities and his weaknesses, and
the fact that New Zealand First have nothing to say
about important issues like the cost of living, poverty. They've
(03:01):
run out of ideas. But I also think they're looking
to America and borrow talking points from there. Where actually
those politics of punching down, if you like, has really
had its moment. If you look at what's happening to
Trump and Musk, the really overreached, look at Canada, look
at Australia, progressives are doing better. This kind of distraction
(03:25):
will cause harm, and it's deliberately done for political gain,
to drive division, and it will do some of that.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Do we have to come up with I mean, do
we have to work out what a woman really is?
I mean, is that something that we I mean, have
we now gone past that and say, well, now we
live in a society where where do we just need
to have freedom?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
It's a weak, pathetic approach by a generation of men
who grew up in the nineteen fifties with gender norms
about women that are completely out of touch with twenty
twenty five. Why would a grown man like Winston Peters
feel the need to define the identity of anybody else.
It's pathetic and it's none of his business and he
should stay out of.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Bridget your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I think I agree in terms of this spell, I
think is unworkable and will achieve division rather than actually
looking at the questions we need to answer. Because there
is no doubt that it is not a black and
white issue. There is many many people that are concerned
about the I'm going to call the erasing of this
the woman identity, so being called a person with a cervix,
(04:31):
or that people are pregnant people as intended to pregnant women.
I know many of my friends swing voters across this
political section who do not like that part of the
identity being reversed or being raised as such. But the
problem is when you take a bill like this, is
that it actually does the same thing. Because what he
is saying is that my essence of being a woman
(04:52):
is reduced to what my biological parts are. That's not
who I am.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
As a woman.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You've got two women sitting in front of you, we
would have different definitions about what makes us feminine or
less feminine, or what's important to us about being a
woman and therefore this is not a space where it
needs to be defined. Is going off the back of
that UK case which I think you can over egg
(05:16):
it was a classic you know, statutor interpretation. This is
me with my lawyer hat on about what it means
to be a woman in this particular.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Piece of legislation.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
And I think those are the questions we actually need
to ask because in some areas, and I think sport's
one of them, that we need to look carefully at
about whether or not we're making sure that sport is
still going to be encouraging to women, particularly at an
elite level, when there's people able to compete against them
that may not have come in with that biology. So
(05:46):
those are the questions that need to be answered. Those
are the things that people are actually concerned about. Let's
have that discussion rather than trying to do this sort
of whitewash across the top.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Can I ask you about the actual interview. I mean,
it's the more people have seemed to be wanting to
talk about the interview, which is a good thing than
the Bill.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Fleur.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
What do you think I mean I think that, like you,
Nick Corndan is a professional New Zealand broadcaster. He is
well regarded, he is fair. I've been interviewed by him
many times. He does not take a political position on issues.
And it was an unjustified personal attack by Winston Peters that,
given the legislative role of radio and New Zealand and
its public funding, was not only unlawful but deeply inappropriate,
(06:29):
and he should apologize. Willie Jackson and Kitty Allen, when
they did similar things with Radio New Zealand and TV
and said were actually much less in terms of what
they did. Both apologize, They fronted up, they apologize. That's
what a decent person should do, and that's what Winston
Peters should do. I bet he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
What did you say about those people born in the
fifties and forties and thirties, I mean they don't forties
and thirties, fifties probably maybe do apologize, but the forties
and thirties don't apologize. Briget bridget your thoughts on the interview.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I mean it's perfect political play from Winston Peters. His
audience is grumpy about what they see is Wellington centric
left wing media, not telling their voices and making them
be heard. So he is completely outly paying to his audience,
which is why is Fleur is right. He will never
apologize because he has got the value out of it.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I apologized.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Taking credit.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Older men don't like apologizing. Did you not know that?
Speaker 5 (07:27):
I'm aware of this? Most mean to be honest, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
That's going to become like a David Cunliff, you know,
I'm sorry for bigger man moment. So yeah, So I
think he's absolutely played the politics perfectly to his base.
And ultimately that's a discussion to be held about We
know anyone who's worked in politics that there is a
discussion between the press secretaries and those producers about who's
(07:52):
coming on and when they're coming on and getting them on,
and it's always a bargain and there's always, you know,
a social contract that exists.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So that's exactly what's happened to here.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
They both had to get value out of that interview.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's probably not done that badly for corn Down either.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, for sure, I said this morning, and I kind
of wanted to get your view on this side. I
think he's Winston at the moment. It's almost I don't
know carbon copying what Trump's doing. You know, Trump's getting
a whole lot of coverage on stuff. I'll do the
same woman. You know, immigration hasn't done Winston hasn't done
the immigration thing yet. But you can guarantee that it's
(08:24):
almost like, Sis, this is working. I think I might
make it my stand your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
On that Winston wins when Winston is able to be
himself like that is his brand through and through, and
he speaks to a particular group in our community and
a group of voters, and they are really invited to
their views and their votes, and so he only needs
to talk to that group. Of course he's going to
He's looking ahead. He's got eighteen months well basically six
(08:48):
months really until the election campaign, you know, starts off.
He's got to get that vote up to make sure
that he can be a coalition partner again. There's just
no way that he's going todal from being Winston.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I'm personally loving it because it brings some excitement to
It's pretty boring coalition without him, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I think what it does is it drives division and
hate within the community, and it gives permission to people
to be violent and nasty, to marginalize communities in New Zealand.
And that's the risk of it. Really Trump needed to
get the you know, a large portion of the public
to vote for him. Winston Peter's under our electoral system
only needs five percent. But look at Georgina Bayer elected
(09:28):
in the wided Upper a trans woman. Yep, I know
how New Zealanders feel about these issues. I don't think
it's a long term strategy for Winston Peter's in New Zealand. First,
I think they will run out of steam on this.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think we've sort of also all as a nation,
grown up a bit with that, haven't we. We just said, well,
it is what it is, you know. Yeah, pretty simplified
to me. Right, let's keep going with Friday Face Off
on a Thursday. I've got a couple of text from
people saying, get my days right. I know it's Thursday,
but it's Friday face Off. The show still gets called
Friday face Off. I made that executive decision, might get
(10:01):
told off by the executive producer after the show, but
let's go with it. Friday face on our Thursday. Everybody,
it's a Thursday. We got that right. We have political
commentator Bridget Morton on the show and Flurford Simon's from
she's the PSA National secretary and ex Wellington City Council.
I don't know why I throw that ex Wellington City councilor.
(10:23):
Pope Francis has died at the age of eighty eight,
with his funeral to be held on Saturday. I'm going
to start with you on this. I mean, it's very sad,
and I get all the Catholic stuff, but I thought
eighteen minutes on television New Zealand yesterday, the day before yesterday,
and and then about another ten minutes, they're overdoing it
(10:44):
a little bit. Tell me what his legacy is.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Look, I think that he was a different kind of
moral leader. He really redirected the Catholic Church back to
its core role as a voice for the poor, for
the dispossessed. He took a firm stand against the war
in Palestine. He called the situation in Gaza an extremely
grave humanitarian situation. He's been an unflinching global champion on
(11:12):
the climate crisis. According to the Guardian, he's challenged the
worst aspects of capitalism, but he's really brought the Catholic
Church back to its core, and I think that will
be his legacy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we
see a replacement who also carries on that legacy.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
See, I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure. I mean,
I know that the liberal people think he didn't do enough,
and the conservative cy think he did too much. I mean,
he didn't, but he really didn't do for me, bridget
anything really concrete. Didn't say yes that priest King Mary.
He didn't say yes, we will accept the trans people.
(11:48):
He didn't say you know, he just sort of put
his toes in the water.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, as anyone has seen contlact like I have, I
do see myself as an.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Expert in Catholic Church politics. And if you've seen.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
That movie, it's exactly this point that you've got these
blocks of conservatism and liberalism, and they both think that
that the pope who died in that circumstance hadn't gone
as far enough to those edges as possible. And I
think there is always a risk of that. I think
you've got to be careful here about just how conservative
the Catholic Church is as an entity. So for anyone
(12:24):
to basically make that giantly towards you know, say marriage
of priests or something like that would be an extreme position.
You have to do it slowly and slowly and bring
that culture along. And I think some of those things
is what you've seen. I think one of the biggest
ones to me was actually the fact that he's sort
of brought in instead of division with other religions, really
bought in Judaism and Islam as as. You know that
(12:44):
that actually brothers sort of in that area, and you
saw that. You know, he was highly critical of what
was happening in Gaza, but he was also highly critical
of the rise of antisemitism and the fact that Judaism
needed to be able to exist and that we couldn't
allow that to happen again.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So I think that's the real power.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
He was big on global warming as well, which is
not something that popes normally have got involved.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
In with that's right. And concern for refugees, yes, he
had a very deep concern for the dispossessed in the world,
poor people exactly, and that's the Catholic Church at its best.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Do you think he might have been a unionist at heart?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Of course, yes, I really think he would it be well,
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Once going to go back to conclave with my reference
for everything to the Catholic Church and the treatment of
the nuns, I just think that they could probably they
may need a union representative flour.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
There are problematic aspects of it, but redirecting the church
back to that core about being about the poor, the dispossessed.
And even in the way he lived, he was like that, Well, we.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Had an old car, didn't he When he wanted to
drive around, he got an old car, an old bomb,
put him in the back seat and away he went.
He was about the people. You know, Ford focus was it?
I mean, you know was a pretty old Ford focus too.
It wasn't a brand new Ford focus. Let's be honest
about that. I want to also ask you, guys, I'm
just looking to see what time I got to break.
Wellington City Council Chief Executive Matt Prosser, the new guy.
(14:01):
Have you met him?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I haven't anyone met him. No, We've tried to meet him.
I doesn't want to know about us anyway. We've got
a new chief executive, Matt Prosser is his name. He's
been paid five hundred and fifty thousand a year, alongside
nearly fifty thousand and moving cost after relocating from his
previous job as the council Chief Executive for Dorset Doorshit Dorset, Dorset,
(14:24):
Dorset and UK. I've got to start with you on
this one, Flew. I mean, you know what the old
one was getting, and you know everything about it as
a salary too high, especially something coming into New Zealand,
you and not knowing that you know the surrounds, not
knowing the situation.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Well, to me, it's unfeathomably high five hundred thousand dollars
a year, as I don't think anybody is worth that
much money. It's just so much money. But actually when
you compare it with the private sector, it's probably below
what what those kind of roles get in the privacy.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
But let's argue this point a little bit. He's not
in the private set.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
No, I agree, And.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Like in the private sector, if I'm not doing my
job tomorrow, I get fired. He ain't getting fired the city,
you know, the chief executive of warning City Council and fight.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
No, I think it's excessive. I think it's too much money.
And if you compare it to what the previous chief executive,
Barbara Mkira got, it is more than her. I don't
think that's a good precedent to have a woman who
was on less than a man coming in from the
United Kingdom to do the same job.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Right, I never even thought of that point, But that
was a negotiation that his people must have done. I mean, Bridget,
what are your thoughts. I mean, you know you dealing
with these high rollers and you know what sort of
money they're earning through your profession. Profession, so do you
feel as high I.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Do think it is what the private market, you know, demands,
and I think that's possibly the situation they were in.
What concerns me though, and this may be an unpopular opinion,
but you compare it to what counselors get. It's almost
about four to five times what a counselor gets paid.
And for counselors, they are way more publicly accountable. They
have to publicly audition for their jobs every few years,
(15:58):
in which they have to put themselves up. They get
a lot more flak in the media than any of
the chief executives do. And we always bemoan the fact
that you don't get high quality counselors. You know, we
look at that in Wellington at the moment we say
we've got this highly educated, highly engaged politically base of people,
but we still struggle to get a lot of people
(16:18):
putting their hands up for counsel And I know that
pay is not the only factor, but it is a
big factor for some people in terms of if they've
got a family, they're not going to go to something.
So I do think that the balance has gotten off
and it's kind of got to a real extreme when
you look at those sort of two figures that actually
they should be much more comparable than what we've currently got.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I'd argue with you on that that the talent of
the people around the table are most of the majority
of them would be extremely overpaid for the talent that
they bring us. And the other thing You've got to
remember us and I'm getting a veal. We stared out
here for Fleur what's lucky.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
We're not on to name names. Did you want to
go that far?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
No, but I'm saying and the CEO, I mean he
or she is responsible for a billion dollars, it's at
a billion dollar company. Now, the counselors don't have to
be responsible for that. They they're the people around the
table that make them decisions, but they're not.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I don't have a problem with the Sea getting paid
what they are worth, or the fact that they could
get they're paid more than the counselors. But what I'm
saying is you've got this extreme at the moment where
it's it's four to five times yeap. So the balance
has got off there and it comes down to this
political public debate that we think that politicians, we demand
a lot of them, but we don't want to pay
(17:32):
for that talent, and then we don't understand why we
haven't got that talent around the table.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
But it's deeper at Wellington City Council as well, because
there actually is a massive power and balance between the
executive Leadership team and the chief executives and the counselors
because it operates in a deeply undemocratic way. So yes,
it's the money, but it's also the culture there and
I'm really hopeful the CEE will reverse that culture and
actually take the mayor and counselors seriously, and which means
also taking the public seriously, because for too long Wellington
(17:58):
City Council has written off residents and democratically elected counselors
and it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Can I just really quickly because I've got to go
to an ambrak, but I I want you to. I
want to ask you about Andrew Little. Obviously you'll be
supportive because he eats on the same plate that you
eat on, so you'll be supportive, but quickly your thoughts.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
He's a great guy. The thing I would say about
Andrew Little two observations. First of all, very serious person
but also self deprecating. The other thing is, unlike many
politicians and political leaders, when you speak to him, he
genuinely listens. You can tell he's listening. He's not on
his phone, he's not distracted. He's listening to understand. And
I think that sets him up well to be a
good mayor.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Is he exciting enough for us? Bridget I want an exciting.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I don't want an exciting mayor. I want a competent mayor.
And I want someone that's going to do the jobs
that we need to. And just look at the pollingers
out there, everyone's back to base.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Are you running neck?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
No?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Well, I'm yawning. I'm yawning out.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You wouldn't be yawning.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
If you were running neck like you would be highly energized.
So you know, put your money when your mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Is told off, told off, Time to go to a
news break. Then we can have this discussion off air.
I'll be told off. Yeah, we'll leave it at that.
We now have an adult in the room. Is what
a lot of people are saying. That's what I'm getting
a lot and we'll go with that. We now have
an adult in the room. Friday face off with Bridget
(19:19):
Morton and Flurford Simon's are the Wellington City Council in
their wisdom we've seen we're talking about the council are
trying to charge commercial rates for Airbnb people that use
who supply Airbnb. So Wellington Pension has taken a part
time job as a teacher aide fearing that he couldn't
(19:41):
afford to live in Wellington. Of the council. Actually their
proposal comes to fruition. It's pretty damn bad out there. Bridget.
I want to know whether you think that if someone
that's got a little you know, using their house as
an Airbnb and got a bedroom out there should be
charged commercial rates, which by the way, are three point
seven times what yours mine and FLIR's rates aren't.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Generally, I think this is lazy, dumb policy. And often
I find counsels apply these commercial differential rates in this
way where they just see commercial businesses as a money
pot that they can go after them, because honestly, if
they went after every household with that kind of increase
in rates, they would have an uproar. But so they
(20:25):
offload some of that onto the commercial entities.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And I think this is a classic one.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I actually in that nerd that went and went and
looked at what information they put out as part of
the consultation on this. They have done no proper cost
benefit analysis. They have not gone Okay, so if we
increase what that differential rate is, what is that likely
to do to the availability of commodation in Wellington? And
b what is the benefit actually of getting these people
(20:49):
in to Wellington? Because we know if people come visit Wellington,
they spend money Wellington that in the cafes, they you know,
going to events, they're going to bars, and none of
that exists, which is why I call it lazy dumb policy.
They've just seen another money pot out there. The compliance
costs on this will just be ridiculous. I just think
that they just need to actually do some simplification and
(21:11):
actually concentrate more on bringing expenditure down rather than wasting
time on trying to pick off some widowers and teachers
who are trying to earn additional money in a costal
in christ Fleur.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
We had a caller, amazing caller on the show when
we discussed it, saying that they had a B and
B and very successful and you know, I had a
lot people staying and just in their home. Just you
come and stay with them and they'll cook your breakfast
and you go about it. They were in the top
one percent of you know, people's approval rate, doing really
really well. Council knocked on their door twenty five thousand
(21:46):
extra a year in rates. They basically fought the council
then ended up selling their property, selling their Airbnb and
moving out. I mean, this is rubbish, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
I think it is. I think it's really a silly
way to go forward. But I do think there is
an issue that people are using empty property for Airbnb
instead of adding to the rental market, and that is
a problem for Wellington, particularly when we've got a housing shortage,
So I understand the council wanting to incentivize that, but
(22:18):
I think rooms within houses are different, and I understand
that they are going to treat them as different. I
guess I would say there's also an issue around affordability
for people on fixed incomes and rates, and an idea
that I know put into a city council has advanced
is that you can make the rates a debt against
your estate if you're a homeowner on a fixed income
and nothing is paid in rates until you pass away
(22:40):
or until your.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
House is sold.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And I think those kind of ideas do allow people
a bit more flexibility and freedom because.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I was going to do that because that's their inheritance
they're giving away, and now it might.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
It will be a small portion of any inheritance on
the average value of a house in Wellington, So it
may well be that those people can have a slightly
better life while they're alive and their children have a
slightly smaller inheritance. It could actually work quite well. It
won't be for everyone, but at the end of the day,
Wellington has a lot of infrastructure issues that we need
to fund and we can't fund them through constant rates.
(23:10):
Increases and the way that we're doing it now, So
let's think about some other options for how we can
meet the city's costs.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Gosh, I hate that idea of that's like that reverse
mortgage stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Really what sort of But.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's a very small portion of your overall value of
your home. So say your rates were four thousand dollars
a year for ten years. If you look at that
and your house sales for five hundred thousand, then it's
actually a small portion that your children would then have
to cover when they can sell the house, and do
sell the house so you.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Could work for't Obviously you haven't looked at your rate
rates bill lately because it's you know, it's bloom and high,
isn't it.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
Mine is on the higher side.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, well so it's mine. I hate them. I hate them.
It's twenty two minutes to twelve. Don't start me up
on rates. You were part of that problem. You started it.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Well, we've got to fix the water infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, gosh, let's have a discussion when there's an ad
break about that. You've abuse me. I'll abuse you back
twenty two minutes to twelve. Flir Fit Simon, Gosh, she
was on the council. What's her fault?
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Well, I will not shy away from the fact that
we needed to increase rates. But what also local government
needs are better tools for collecting funding. It shouldn't just
be all about rates.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, it's Wellington Mornings, as you just heard, and it's
Friday face off on a Thursday because it's a long weekend. Flurford,
Simon and Bridget Morton in the studio. For me, they
must be the two only other people apart from me
and Ethan that are working in Wellington over this period
of day. Are you?
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I mean as your office for empty, pretty empty and
there's no cues in the cafes.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
We're about half full. But they're working pretty hard back
in my office. So you don't say that they're not working.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You said you've got a phone call that you didn't
have before and because so you've been pretty excited by
it all the break. Anyway, let's talk about our Prime
Minister being in Europe and he's extending its deployment of
one hundred New Zealand Defense for staff training Ukraine troops
in the UK, bringing the total contribution to Ukraine to
one hundred and fifty two million dollars. It comes at
(25:13):
a time where Christopher Luxm meets with Sir Kia Starma
Bridget What do you think of the trip so far
and what about this money? Can we afford this sort
of money?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, I think there's two things.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
One is that we've got an international obligation and I
think you can see that coming quite strongly from this
government in this time of uncertainty, that these international trips
and these relationship building and basically putting our money where
our mouth is is really really important. Also, don't interestimate
how much of our defense force. We know we've got
(25:45):
a recruitment issue. They've put the big spend in terms
of the equipment and infrastructure, but ultimately our defense force
is there because they want to serve. So this is
the type of thing that they do want to do,
They want to be deployed. This is a good way
of making sure that our military is kept current. So
it's not just a pure numbers and money game. It's
also about our skill development and our recruitment as well.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Fliff Simers, do do we actually put a point where
we say enough is enough, we can't afford anymore? I
you know, I know, I simplify it, But I say,
how many hip replacements could we do for one hundred
and fifty two. I understand we've got to be part
of and I understand, but if it keeps on going
and going and going, we're not in the financial situation
to keep supporting it.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
No, I wouldn't fault the government on this. I disagree
with you. I think that it is the price you
pay for being a democratic nation in this world, and
I think we've done the right thing by aligning ourselves
with the United Kingdom and Europe on this. I just
think it's disappointing to see the government showing off about
its defense commitment at the very same time as they're
cutting civilian defense personnel. And these are personnel who do
(26:45):
absolutely critical work in supporting our combat ready military. So
the government can put say all it likes about how
much money it's putting into defense equipment, but if they're
doing so at the same time, is dismissing these absolutely
critical civilian personnel. It just won't work.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You just got to put your union cap on all
the time. Don't you just got to come every time
you're going to give us that, you know, I couldn't
look after my comrades. Yeah, I got I get it,
I get it. I support you, I support you changing careers. Now,
Nelson woman at fifty two change decided that she wanted
to be a tyler, you know, and actually started an apprenticeship.
(27:27):
Now she's fully qualified at fifty two years old as
a tyler. Bridget I think that it's amazing. She's fifty six,
not fifty two. Sorry, I'm looking at the clock thinking
he's telling me fifty. She's fifty six years old, not
fifty two. I mean the photos of her, she looks
like an incredible woman. What do you think about people
changing their careers. I mean a lot of people I
(27:47):
know who have changed to being a lawyer later in life.
I mean, you know, they seeing how much money you
guys make.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I wouldn't say that me changing to be a lawyer,
you know, in my thirties was later in life.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Neik, But no, no, I said, I know a lot
of But.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That is essentially what I did.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I worked in politics for a decade and then decided
that actually, I know, I wanted to go into private
sector law. And I know because you joked about the
fact that me being a political commentator obviously still got
my toe in the water about politics, but my day
to day job as a lawyer, I had to upscale
fast across all the legal procedures about court, about litigation.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
It was a steep learning curve.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And I think that's the bit that people miss in
terms of changing careers, is actually taking that leap that
you have to go from being someone that's kind of
an expert or high up in a particular career and
go back to being the novice, and that you.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Have to put the work in.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
So I think it's absolutely admirable that she's done this.
I do think, you know, there's a bit of focus
on her being fifty six. She's got at least ten
years in her career. She's got a long time to
be a titler. It's not like she's kind of, you know,
making a very late minute and maybe getting out.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Of let's be I mean, let's let's be cut to
the chase on this, because you know, you're a very
young woman, fifty six year old knocking on knocking on
doors looking for a job. She'd have no hope finding
you know, I mean, that's pretty hard to find it
at fifty six without a trade or without a profession.
Let's really cut to and people would just look at
her and six she's two.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
But I think, I mean, we've got a current environment.
We're coming out of a recession. We have got a
number of people unemployed. This is exactly what people need
to be thinking about, is whether or not they have
got their ability to retrain. And this seems like she's
seen this is something that people need. You know, she's
gone into an industry where there is still a need
for and you can see that need being for the
(29:33):
next years. I can't see AI being able to tie
my bathroom for me, So you know, she's made a
smart career move.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
There may it could maybe it could. Have you ever
flu have you ever thought about changing your career? I mean,
once you're a union person, you can't you know, you
can't change that, can you? You can't cut? What else
can you do?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Now?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Totally?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
I actually wish I'd trained as a teacher. My mum
was an English teacher for forty years.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Young enough to do that.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
And I have thought about it and I would consider
doing it. You have to do a year, so yeah,
definitely would consider being a teacher. I think making a
contribution to young people every day is an incredible to
change the world, and I think teachers do an incredible job.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Imagine having to live on that salary compared to the
salary you got. Now, now, before you start coming back
at that, I'm going to take a break.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The Friday face of.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Hot.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh my god, I could make some money or what
we talk about in the air break. I even told
two of my guests, No I won't say that on air,
but I'll tell you later. Yeah, gosh, what we talk
about hots and knots. Let's go bridget mooton what's your hots?
A notts?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
My heart?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Are going to give credit whr creditors due and as
to the people managing the Melling Interchange roadworks over the
last like week or so.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I know this is very boring, very.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
You know, local, but you know they did they had
to do some emergency works. They've done it well, managered,
They've done it over quiet traffic period. It's very clear
what is happening for somebody who dries through that area.
I just think we need credit to some of the
road cones sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And you're not hot, might not just wake me up with.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Being boring.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Well, I'm going to keep on this rund because it's
about the Privileges Committee that I am not on. I
am frustrated that party MALDI has got a real opportunity
here to actually change some of the teacunger and the
cultural practices of our House of Parliament to reflect the
diversity of our community. And instead they won't even turn
out to the Privileges Committee and try and fight that.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
They're all about the protest right.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Flur fors Simons, you'r hots and not to please start
with your hot.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
The beginning of the Nepal season with the Pulse launching
their campaign in Wellington, I'm very excited about the team
they've got. I'm very excited about all the games that
are coming up, and I am very proud to be
a strong Polese supporter and I'm hoping for a great season.
Mi not is the millipede infestation, it'll feudal Bay and
(31:51):
the international coverage that it's got. And I want to
commend the local ward Council in eurroed In abdu Ahman
for standing up for the community. He was on heather
Dy Plicellen last night talking about what a horrible issue
this is for people.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
To deal with.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
They have to sweep them out of their house rest.
They are awful. They come on people's faces. It is
a disgusting issue.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
And I think they got introduced to Wellington. When you're
on the council.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
It's bound to be my fault.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
They need a targeted rate and we would get rid
of them.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I reckon that. Ethan told you to say that, because
Ethan's been odd to be about doing it all week.
I said, who cares about a few little nig blitz
And you would.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Care if you lived in a fidal bay.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'd have to be out spraying them. I spray them.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
It's constant. You can't get rid of them. They breed
by the hundred.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I do feel for you people. Where is it again.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
In surrounding suburbs? They are on the crawl?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I called it Ohariobay the other day to radio. That's bad,
that's bad, but me fired, that's me fired. Thank you
both very much. Have a Hopefully you're going to do
something with ANZAC data tomorrow. You're going to flourish.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Nodding your head, She'll always go to a service.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Good on you, well well done both of you. I'm
very proud of both of you. Thank you very much.
Have a great day tomorrow and let's commemorate the people
that have done wonderful things for New Zealand to make
us live the way we do. Thank you both, lady.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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