CZM Rewind: Hitler's Sex Life: The Whole Sad Story

Original Air Date: February 26, 2019

Robert is joined by comedian Brandie Posey to discus Hitler's sex life!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, Robert Evans here, and this is the week
we take off for all of wool Zone Media, so
we do not put out new episodes this week, so
everyone can actually get a break at the company. Takes
some time. We've done this before. We decided this year
that we would actually put out reruns of old episodes,
you know, with little introductions from us that we recorded

(00:20):
more recently. This is largely stuff that we thought should
have gotten more attention, you know, maybe it came out
when we were smaller, and we want to put it
back in front of folks again. So there will be episodes,
you know, reruns of it could happen here, reruns of politics,
runs of everything that we do. And this is the
rerun of Behind the Bastards. And you know, we love

(00:40):
talking about guys like Hitler, specifically Hitler over here, you know,
like like the History Channel of old He's always an
entertaining fellow. And I did an episode a few years
back back when we were still working out of la
still recording from the studio about his sexuality, right, because
there's a lot of myths and a lot of just
like bullshit that comes out about you know, Hitler's relationships

(01:01):
his romantic life, all that kind of stuff. It's usually
you know, nonsense that's kind of deliberately exaggerated to try
and get eyeballs on something in order to, you know,
for somebody's financial bottom line. So I did a really
deep dive into like what we know about his actual
sex life, about his actual like how he was as

(01:22):
a romantic partner, all that good stuff. And it's both
very different from the story that I think people tend
to get in popular media, and I think more interesting,
more more useful in understanding the man as a human
being and like why he was the kind of guy
that he was. So without further ado, here's how Hitler fucked.

(01:43):
A serious title that they would not let me actually
use for these episodes. Introduction, I'm Robert Evans. This is
Behind the Bastards, the podcast we tell you everything you
don't know about the very worst people in all of history.
With me today is Brandy Posey. Hell. Hello, are you
doing Brandy?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm doing pretty great. I'm excited to get into this.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Brandy. You are a stand up comedian. Get any pluggables
to kick off at the start here? Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, I tore around quite a bit. You can go
to Brandyposey dot com Brandy with an Ie Posey with
an Ey for all of my tour dates. I also
have a podcast called Lady to Lady that is very,
very fun. We've had a lot of really awesome past guests,
like Margaret trow On French Stewart, So come check that
out too.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Normally we work all that out ahead of time and
I introduce it. But Sophie isn't here, and as you
can tell, like everything, everything's a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
It's okay, you you have like a terror in your eyes.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh, it's it's horrifying. The thought of not knowing what
to do. I don't know how to do. I don't
know what we're gonna do. Ad breaks, this is this
is the end for all of us.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Do you want me to count something down for you?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
No? No, I should I put it.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
On a Sophie wig of some kind. That what will
calm your nerves properly for this recording.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
The only possible thing to do in the face of
chaos is to just completely yield to the chaos and
give up even trying to structure the show perfect. Sounds great, Yeah,
I think that's I think that's the plan.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Okay, explains why you're standing on the table.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Great, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Now, Brandy, Yes, today we
have a subject that is near and dear to no
one's hearts, but more important than I think a lot
of people give it credit to. Today we're talking about
how Hitler fucked Ooh, so.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Glad you called me for this? Yeah, I'm flattered.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
You want to talk about Stalin and his his love
of pranks and uh DJing and drinking more than anyone
else now and.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Fucking Hitler feels like a prank?

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, well maybe.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Or maybe not. I can't my my predictions out of
the gate. Can I give a prediction?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh yeah, I'm very curious for that.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Not a generous lover, okay, And also gonna say this,
not going to shame somebody for having a small penis
because that is outside of your control. But real angry guy.
I have a feeling he probably has a little guy.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
The funny thing about Hitler because Hitler, Hitler's like the
one person people have talked about more than any other
single person. Yes, story, I've always be written about him
and whatnot. Everything you just talked about, the possibility had
a micro penis, the possibility he was not a generous lover.
This has all been debated by like elderly scholars from
Stanford and Cambridge at link, Like that's one of the
fun things about Hitler studies is that, like that question

(04:26):
about whether or not he had a micro penis, like
the CIA's weighed in, like it's a thing, of course.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Imagine dedicating your career to that, Like, mom, dad, I'm
majoring in Hitler Dick.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, just Hitler studies in general. If you're going to
be into Hitler studies, you're gonna have some questions about
his dick. Yeah, pH dick, pH dick in Hitler's fucking
This is not going to be the most adult episode
in certain points, but uh, I'm good with that. I
think you'll be surprised where it goes.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Every pretty well, I do like that in front of
me on the table while recording. We do have a
product called a Purina busy bone, which is just right
on the table in front of me.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, speaking of busy bones, yes, Hitler's it's debatable. It's
all very very heavily.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
His bone didn't get very busy, lazy bone.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
It's possible his bone got a lot busier than people
give him credit for There's a lot of debate around
this topic. There's even a lot of debate about the
nature of his genitals. In addition to the question that
like the OSS, the precursor of the CIA, talked a
lot about like whether or not get a micro penis.
Based on some interviews with some people, there's a hypothesis
that a goat bit off his dick when he was

(05:31):
very young, and that that was the secret of his madness,
that he a goat bit his dick.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
You want that to be true.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
That a lot of people did like you again, where's
that under statue? I mean, we don't want to we
don't want to celebrate that goat if it's the secret
to Hitler's madness.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean that's true.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's true now, and we're not going to get into
much of that. There's also a theory that he had
one ball and there was like a song during the
war Hitler has only got one ball, Goerring has two
but very small Nana Nana Nana. That was like a
British ditty. But there were real rumors about it.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Is that where that that melody comes from?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
No?

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Or is that a weird al parody about it.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Was, I mean, weird al hadn't been conceived of yet. Yeah,
like it was a it was a parody of that
like tune. It's just an easy tune to mix a
song too about Shitler's testicles.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I just wanted to make sure that that wasn't like
what that original song was, because it was like, how
is that not a fact in my lexicon?

Speaker 1 (06:29):
At this point, we have interviews with a couple of
different doctors who, you know, pile paid Hitler's genitals because
that's what doctors do, and they all say perfectly normal.
So there's no hard evidence of that, but it has
been debated a lot, and I do think it's important
that people know for historical context that when bombs were
raining down on London, yes, people were comforting themselves with
songs about Hitler and Gerring's genitalia.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yes, yeah, I'm pretty into that for sure.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's great. It's great.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Nothing cuts to the core quite like a parody song.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
No it doesn't. Let's uh, I've deeper into this.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Well, let's get in there. Let's just get on in there.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
So, as you might guess by the fact that I
wasn't even holding up my notes for that whole discussion
about Hitler's genitalia and the rumors about it. I am
what you might call a Hitler nerd. I've read enough
biographies of the man that I've started reading books about Hitler,
biographies that are essentially comparing all of the different biographies
of Hitler, and like like biographies about writing biographies about Hitler.
It's a problem. Yeah, yeah, it's not good.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Do you have like a shell, is it like a
shelf in your house or do you have like a
cloth in front of it?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
You know, I own a couple of physical copies, but
for the show, I get too many books, Like I
just have everything i'd kindle, like I usually am buying
sometimes two or three in a week, Like, it just
take too long.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's better to have that all digital. Well, although I
think if you were to actually see the titles laid
out in front of you physically, you'd be like.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Oh, there's things that would be that would be nicer,
but it would I think it would take a lot
longer to put together episodes. Fair, Okay, Well, the point
of this is that I tend to be on the
cutting edge of new Hitler recis in terms of like
what I'm reading. I'm not doing new Hitler research, but
I so speaking of that. A couple of days ago,

(08:12):
I was actively looking for a new Hitler fact to
just see if any had come out in the last
couple of months since I'd checked that, and I came
across an article in The Independent called Hitler was a
sexually confused serial killer, psychologist claims in new book. So
that's quite a claim.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
So I think you can also probably just say serial killer,
because I think most serial killers have got, you know,
their wires crossed.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah. I mean it's interesting the term confused for serial
killer because I wonder if like a guy like Ted
Bundy probably wouldn't be Like, No, I wasn't confused. I
just this is what I wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, the confusion came from wherever
the wiring crossed in the first place. Yeah. He's very
matter of fact about Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
And the book that apparently makes these claims is titled
Hitler Won and Hitler Two, The Sexual No Man's Land.
It's by a best selling German author and psychiatry christ
named Vulcar Ellis Pilgrim.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
And is that like a new like it's a very
dark cat in the hat Hitler one and Hitler two. Ye,
the cat and the hat go and they.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Just Hitler won and Hitler two. Yeah, they can do
anything anything. Oh no, don't do the.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Sun and rad It's a white supremacist parody right there.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah for sure. Yeah, some some Nazi listening in is
already hard at work on that.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Not the Doctor SEUs version.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I haven't gotten to read that book because it's only
in German and I do not read German, which is
almost the title of a great podcast. There's a podcast
called I Don't Speak German about the alt right that
people should listen to if they want. It's kind of
like my show, but way more focused on that one
narrow group of people. Great podcasts anyway, I don't read German. Yeah,
I don't read German. Podcast is called I don't Speak German.

(09:52):
Cool Anyway. I couldn't find the book, but I did
find some claims that are in the book In this article,
Hitler was a Adolf Hitler was a actually confused serial
killer whose violence was driven by lust. In his new book,
mister Volker claims the Nazi leader had an orgasm while
watching a film in which Austrian soldiers massacre French troops.
Now this kind of story is a treat for me

(10:13):
because I'd never heard of this particular Hitler story before.
I'm always I'm always looking out for some new h facts.
So quote, he quotes Mary Anne Hopp, an actress who
was an acquaintance of Hitler, describing a time that she went
to the cinema in the Dictator's Berlin palace to watch
a film called The Rebel. It featured Austrian troops hurling
boulders from a mountain onto the French below. Hitler got

(10:35):
some kind of thrill and rubbed his knees at this
event as the stones rolled down on the French and groaned.
I don't know if he was crazy, but he got
some kind of orgasm. She said, I wanted to leave
during the show. The man was creepy.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah. People gave pee Wee Herman a hard time.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
People gave Pee Wee Herman a hard time. You know
Hitler in perspective.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, if you compare the two pee we should get
the statue.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
I feel like Pee Wee should have just left to
masturbate in that theater. But that's what that theater was for.
It's what the theater was for its not like he
was showing up at the cinemark to like showing anyway. Yeah, yeah,
I'd been unable to yeah, find an English translation. But
in this article mister would apparently talk to the author.
Pilgrim talks about how he suspects there's a connection between
sexuality and violence and Hitler, and that his sexual excitement

(11:22):
at the thought of violence gave him the desire to
force men into killing. He says, however, since this lust
for killing is the decisive feature of serial killers, the
question inevitably arises. Was Hitler a serial killer who murdered
for the purpose of his gratification? Hitler's sexuality, I believe
drove the dictator into the most colossal annihilation that man
has witnessed. Now that's that's this guy's claims and uh,

(11:44):
interesting premise. I can see why a lot of people
would want to believe that. Yeah. Mister Pilgrim also speculates
about Hitler's sex life, claiming he abstained from sexual relations
with his mistress and then wife, Eva Brown. Now this
all sounds I think to a lot of people. They
might read this and be like, Okay, well this seems
you know, of course, he was crazy. Maybe that makes
him he was just a serial killer who wound up
in charge of the country. Yeah, I get why people

(12:05):
would want to believe that. I think what most people
looking at that wouldn't dig into is kind of where
the guy is basing his claims on. And most of
them come from a dude called Ernst han Stangle. Another
nickname was Putsi, and Ernst was a classic classic Putsy.
Ernst was a friend of Hitler's back in the day
who then started hating him.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
And I'm sure that happened with a lot of Hitler's friend.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
That happened were not great at keeping friends, not super
good at friends.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I'll be like, oh God, just do I have to
answer keep answering this call.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
I think that might surprise a lot of people. Not
a good friend, yeah, not dictators in general. Not great friends,
no not.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
They just take and they take and they take.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
They take and they take and they take. Some of
them are fun to drink with, yeah, once or twice.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Like, if I could go back in time and just
see Stalin and all of his buddies, how drunk they,
of course I would want to try. I wouldn't want
to be drunk around Hitler. No, but Hitler didn't get drunk.
He was a teetotler, right, he was a t totally yeah.
I mean he was on meth a lot, but that
was a doctor giving it to him.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, so he yeah, so he thought that he was
being medicated.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
He thought that, and that was you know that when
we talk about that, and there's a great book called
Blitz about that. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about it someday,
but like that was mostly later in the war, during
his rise to power. He's sober, Like every now and
then you'll hear a story of him drinking like part
of a glass of champagne. But he was like yeah, yeah,
which is you know, control freaks and whatnot. So I
get the the desire to like psycho analyze Hitler, but

(13:30):
going to Homstangle for like advice, because hams Stangle has
a long time been claiming that Hitler was basically a newter,
was like couldn't get off. Yah, yeah, it had like
no sexual life. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, and that is a thing with a lot of
seri killers, where like they just can't come until they
find the thing that makes them right.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah. That and if you think of Hitler as a
serial killer. A lot of this stuff makes sense. But
I think what most people don't realize when they hear
stories like this about every year or two, there will
be a new rash of Hitler's sex life stories that yeah,
little hit like kind of shadier but not entirely bullshit
outlets and stuff, and then every now and then someone
like The New York will give it a write up
or whatnot. None of this is new in the field

(14:08):
of hitlerology. And in fact, like all of these claims,
any claim that you like read about and like a
modern paper about, like Hitler liking to poop on people,
or the possibility that Hitler was gay, all that stuff
was kicking around in the nineteen thirties. Yeah, so there's
a lot of myths around this guy. And so what
I want to kind of do today is first give

(14:29):
kind of an overview of the myths that people are
still telling about Hitler and kind of the latest couple
of waves of this, and then we're gonna do a
really deep dive into his whole sexual history, his relationships,
everything that there is about him in like reputable like scholarship.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
So jeez, so if you and Hitler matched on tender
and you wanted to google him to find out what
was really going on. This would be the episode to
listen to.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
This would be the episode to listen to. And spoiler alert,
don't date Hitler. No, don't date Hitler, No, don't Probably
not going to go well. Yeah. So, back in like
March of twenty sixteen, I came across an article in
the Daily Star with the title Adolf Hitler was gay
and loved teenage boys. CIA files claim. There was also
a New York Post article around the same time with

(15:16):
the title Adolf Hitler had a truly discussing sexual fetish.
It's equally emblematic of like those types of articles. Yeah,
these were all like spring of twenty sixteen wave articles,
and they were all based on a dossier the OSS,
which is like a precursor of the CIA put together
quote from the New York Post. The Nazi leader's bedroom
habits included a love of Pooh sex, claims the dossier

(15:38):
from the office of Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Which is was shit not dressing up like Winnie.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
The Pooh, not dressing up like Winnie the Pooh and
looking for honey. Yeah. The intelligence document says that he
liked women to stand over him and defecate because he
was turned on by Pooh. This is the New York
Post keeps using the word pooh instead of feces, which
just doesn't seem like great journalism. It also revealed the
fur had a micro penis, and, as the famous song suggests,
only one test. It also revealed he liked to be
brutally kicked by women as part of his sex games.

(16:04):
So again, this is always presented whenever it comes up
in the media. Is new. This is all older than
your grandparents.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, this has been around forever.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's been around forever.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
This is Yeah. So the root of most of the
salacious Hitler fuck myths is that infamous oss report titled
The Mind of Adolf Hitler, was compiled by a doctor
named Langer and was initially a secret thing that was
written up as a brief for FDR at the start
of World War Two. It's based on a lot of
interviews and original documents and the source book behind the paper,

(16:34):
which is like all of the raw sources that they
compiled to write This is a gold mine of info.
But we should be really critical about the dossier itself.
It has to be taken with as much salt as
you'd prescribe something written by a psychologist in the nineteen forties,
because it's filled with really debatable conclusions based on bad
psychoanalytic theory. I'm going to read you one excerpt where
doctor Langer tries to explain why Hitler always carried around

(16:56):
a whip as a young man. Quote. Anyone who has
ever seeing Hitler talking in a bashful and puerile way
to a woman would easily be led to believe that
in marriage he would be the underdog. But that is
manifestly wrong. It would seem that the whip plays some
mysterious role in his relationship to women. In doctor Sedgwick's opinion,
during the almost fifteen years of association with Hitler, the
whip with which Hitler loves to gesticulate figures as a

(17:17):
kind of substitute or auxiliary symbol for his missing sexual potency.
All this wielding of the whip seems to be connected
with a hidden desire on the part of Hitler for
some state of erection which would overcome his fundamental sexual
inferiority complex. The truth is that Hitler is, in all probabilities,
still in the stage of puberty and still in the
essential meaning of the word a virgin.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I want to take that guy to a renfest. Yeah,
just take a look around.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
What do you make of this?

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, what do you think is going on here?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
And when he references doctor Sedgwick, that's Hans Schnangle. Yeah,
so this is again all based on that guy. A
lot of this is based on that guy stuff. But
like Hitler, Hitler was definitely not a virgin in nineteen
forty two.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, no, no, no, no whip for sure. How old was
he when he into World War One? Do you know?

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Because he was in his mid twenties. He was in
the trenches the whole time.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I gotcha. So probably not even a
virgin at that point.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
It's debatable. We'll get into that a little bit. So. Uh,
just as we kind of criticized that whips were really
common among German fascists to be used as weapons and
street fights at this time, and Hitler used his whip
in street fights a lot. He also used it to
flirt with girls a lot. So we'll talk about that some.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
I that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It was pretty hardcore, like.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
The idea of like a drive by whipping back of
the day.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It was more like a bunch of guys they would
give speeches in these like beer halls because it's a
big thing in German culture, and like a bunch of
anti fascists would crowd around them, and like they would
start throwing bottles and fighting, and like fucking Hitler would
pull out his whip and start like swinging whips and
people and stuff. And you can fuck a dude up
with Yeah, you can decent with it.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Holy shit.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
It's a good weapon if you're gonna like beat on
somebody in a bar. Yeah, And it worked for that purpose.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
And give Antifa all the whips now.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean they take a lot of training,
but yeaheah, yeah yeah. I like Indiana Jones reclaiming the
whip for the not fascist side of things.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Appreciate that I've never heard the Hitler whip thing.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Hitler loved Whitz. You're going to be hearing a lot
about Hitler's whip today. Yeah. So, anyway, because of all
of this misinformation, because of all of these like conclusions
that people still tried out based on like fucking nineteen
forty psychoanalytic theory, I have gone through two different Hitler biographies,
the ones I considered probably the two best, John Totlan's

(19:29):
and Ian Kershaw's, as well as a great book called
Explaining Hitler. That's like a synthesis of a bunch of
different biographies, and I've tried to present what I think
is the most complete picture of the verifiable facts of
Hitler's sex life. So, anyway, if we're going to understand
how Hitler fucked and how people talk about how Hitler fucked,

(19:49):
we have to start with Hitler's sexual prehistory. What we
know about how his dad fucked. Oh, or to be
more precise, who his dad fucked?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Ooh, well, his mom at.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Least definitely his mom, that's a given.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
At least at least twice, right, because he had a sister,
you younger sister.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Or something, right, Yeah, I think she was a half sister.
You know, I don't remember that off the top of
my head. His genealogy is very complicated.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, so there was a younger girl. There was a
girl in a room in his house.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Girl. Yeah, Paula Hitler. He had a sister, and he
actually like one of the nice things Hitler did in
his life is that, as a younger man, he gave
her his inheritance and like wound up kind of on
the street as a result of that because she had
a kid and stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Got it okay.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
So one thing we leave out a lot when we
talk about Hitler's rise to power is the army of
crusading journalists who fought a desperate battle to stop him
from taking control. They failed, obviously, and a lot of
them died. But for a while, their investigation scared Hitler
more than anything. He was frightened that his family history
would be exposed. When he learned about one of the
first of these investigations, he allegedly told a party member,
people must not know who I am. They must not

(20:52):
know where I come from. WHOA Now. There are a
lot of different rumors as to why. The most salacious
rumors that Hitler secretly had a Jewish background. We don't
know for certain who his father's father was. His grandmother,
Maria Schickelgruber, was a forty two year old, unmarried serving
woman when she gave birth to his father, A Lois
in eighteen thirty six. Some legends say a wealthy Jewish

(21:13):
man or a nobleman impregnated her. We don't know. The
Church she was baptized in and the entire town where
she was born, Dollarsheim, was obliterated by German artillery, probably
on Hitler's orders in order to conceal his background, which
is serious warlord. Move right there, Yeah, I'll give it
to you.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Erase the skel rovers, yeah yeah, get rid of that shit, Grandma.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
One of those things. One of those few places you'll catch,
like a lot of really serious historians speculating, is like,
would it have even been possible for a guy with
the last name Schickel Gruber to have done the things
that Hitler did, because it was kind of like chance
that he wound up with the last name Hitler, like
his dad adopted it from another guy who probably wasn't
his dad. It's a messy case. Heidler was the original name,

(21:55):
and then they changed it to Hitler. I say, okay,
and I have trouble imagining Hyle Schickel Grueber.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
No, because people will keep stumbling over it.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, Chicl Gruber. It'd be like if Google had if
their name had been like question, ask, yeah, exactly, it
just probably wouldn't have worked as well.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
No, No, no, it definitely would not.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, So historians debate over the exact nature of the
genealogy further back than Hitler's dad, but the dad was
a bastard that at least maybe we don't even know
that much. All of this is still debated. The odds
that Hitler was ashamed of a secret Jewish person in
his past, though, are lower than the odds that he

(22:35):
was just worried people would find out his dad was gross.
Alois Hitler was a mid level customs official in brown Ow, Austria.
He'd been respected in the local community, but his middle
management image belied the reality of a man who repeatedly
married children. Alois's cool swere it is?

Speaker 2 (22:52):
So it's wondering when pedophiles are going to be a
part of the story.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
They will be a part of this story all the
way through. Well, great, nazi'sn't gross sexuals wo wow. Yeah,
everybody focuses on the possibility that there was pooh sex.
The stuff that we know is so much grosser than pooping,
Like that's whatever. People who are perfectly fine can enjoy
that sort of thing. What we're talking about with Hitler

(23:18):
and his dad, both cases fucked up objectively.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, you can, you can have consensual pooh sex whatever,
it's whatever.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Just clean your own sheets, clean your own sheets, or
pay your cleaning lady incredibly. Well, yes, you know, I'm
sure there's some people who take that job. So Alois's
first wife was much much older than him, and she
died after a few years of marriage. Some of the
rumors or that he married her for her money, which whatever.
While Alois was married, but while his first wife was sick,

(23:47):
he moved a sixteen year old girl into their home
to be his serving maid. This girl, Clara, was his niece.
Now cool cool a loser now. John Toland, who's one
of the preminent Hitler biographers of all times, says that
Clara was hot, quote with abundant dark hair. He claims
that she was quote installed with the Hitler's at an

(24:09):
end where Aloys was already carrying on an affair with
the kitchen maid Francisca. So, when Alois's first wife is alive,
he's got this sixteen year old niece who he's hitting on,
and also this like seventeen year old kitchen maid named Francisca,
both of whom he's like starting up a thing with
while his first wife is alive and dying, so when

(24:30):
his first wife died, Alois got her money and married Francisca.
I'm going to quote now from the fantastic book explaining Hitler.
After his first wife died, developments in the Alois Hitler
household began to take on the appearance of a maimed
French farce. After a period of living conjugally but without
the benefit of clergy and with the kitchen maid, while
simultaneously enjoying the services of the even younger maid and niece, Clara,

(24:50):
he married the older one.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, good for.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Him, Good for him picking that seventeen year old, not
the sixteen year old. I guess how old is he
at this point? He is in his forties now. According
to John Toland, Francisca was quote only too aware of
how tempting a pretty maid could be to the success
to the susceptible Alois. After the wedding, the first thing
she did was get rid of Clara. Luckily, for Alois,

(25:15):
his second wife soon died, allowing him to finally realize
his true dream of marrying his teenage niece.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Wow, do you know how how did Francesca?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
It was cancer? It was a lot of cancer. In
the Hitler family tree. He was kind of scared about
his whole enough not enough, not enough cancer among the Hitlers.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Some juvenile leukemia would have really dealt with some problems
for the world would be pretty great. Not often I
stand for juvenile leukemia, but for Hitler.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Get up in them bones.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Get up in them bones. Oh so uh. The only
thing getting in the way of Alois Hitler and his
true love with his teenage niece was the fact that
they were very close relatives. They officially share the same
grand uncle, Johann George Heidler. Now, even in the late
eighteen hundreds, marrying your teenage niece was sort of frowned upon.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, I did see that.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
This is not one of those things where, no, it
was normal at the time, everybody's marrying their sixteen year
old serving girl niece. No, alloys had to get special
dispensation from the pope to marry and continue fucking his niece.
He wanted to fuck his niece so bad he got
pappal approval. Oh my god, that's that's Hitler's dad.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Just dear Pope, dear.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Pope, I got my niece. You gotta see this girl.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, let me send you a couple of pictures.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I drew some creatures.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, just because you chose to be a celibate, it
doesn't mean I need to be a celibate. And I'd
like to break that with a child with.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
A child related to, related to and kind of morally
responsible to.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Can I give a thumb Can I get a thumbs up?

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Thumbs up? Thumbs down? What's Catholicism say? And the pope
just said go for it, go for it. Yeahler's dad
had every official papal permission to fuck his niece.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
All popes are great? Anything wrong?

Speaker 1 (27:08):
What a great thing to exist a pope? Cool?

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Hitler's Catholic?

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Oh yeah, I mean Hitler didn't really give a shit. Well,
I mean he was a Hitlerist.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, yeah, I like technically I guess on on the
on paper.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah. And at that point in Austria, you're not gonna
not you got to be straight with the Catholic Church. Yeah,
it's Austria. It's Austrian in the late eighteen hundreds.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
How did this guy not get like the sin guilt
ship worked into him?

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I mean he might have. I assumed there were a lot.
I assume there was talk. I assume people were like,
it's kind of fucked up, right.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, but I feel so bad about sucking my niece child.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Well, I don't know if he did, but I'm gonna
I'm gonna guess people in town there were some like
but you know, those people all died of typhus, you know,
so we don't know what they were talking about. Not enough,
just give you all the Austrians, okay, So to make
things even creepier. According to Ron Rosenbaum's explaining Hitler quote,

(28:03):
even after the Vatican granted the dispensation, Clara continued to
call her new husband what she called him when she
was still his maid mistress uncle. So Hitler's mom called
his dad uncle the whole time Hitler was a kid.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
That's worse than when parents call each other mother and father.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, that's grosser. Then that's like Mike Pince shit on
another one.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, my uncle.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, it's gross. It's really gross, it's really nasty. Yeah,
this is the relationship Adolf Hitler was born into. So
I'm not gonna say in fairness to Hitler, because you
don't give Hitler credit for anything because he's Hitler. Yeah,
but as a baby, that's a rough situation to land in.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah. Yeah, Also, this is some classic uncle bullshit.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, you always got a.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Good uncle on a bad on. It's always liked when
you got a bad uncle. It's nothing worse than a
bad uncle.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Hitler's dad was like the platonic ideal of a bad uncle, like.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
The uncle that everyone's like, can he not come here?

Speaker 1 (28:57):
And he can maynot have him around?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Please, it's just cut that uncle out of everything.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Okay. So, uh, Hitler's dad marries two women that Uh
Hitler biographer Ian Kershaw describes as young enough to be
his children. As a dad, he's remembered generally as a
strict authoritarian figure, but most people who knew the family
when his dad was alive say that Alois wasn't, you know,
particularly violent or bad by the standards of the time
towards his kid or his wife. We would probably almost

(29:23):
certainly call the discipline that Hitler endured child abuse today,
but it was not out of the norm for the area,
and most of the boys in Austria who grew up
around Hitler didn't grow up to be Hitler. So you
don't want to put too much influence on the fact
that his dad was an authoritarian. But a lot of
the boys around Hitler did grow up to be Nazis,
so let's not discount the impact of authoritarian parenting either.
Yeah yeah, but it's probably not what we're looking for

(29:46):
for looking for the whole reason Hitler went all crazy,
the fact that his dad hit him sometimes.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, exactly, it's like, that's not going to be that
doesn't that's a real age.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Z Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You're you're leaving out some
stuff if you if you drop it down to that
uncle father, my uncle father, uncle, my uncle daddy, Jesus
oh Hitler.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
So we're gonna dig into Hitler as a young man
in his early love affairs. Great and spoilers. They're as
creepy as everything else in this podcast is gonna be.
I'm not surprised if you thought Hitler the dad was bad.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
No, Yeah, there's no way like Hitler Adolph is like
a lothario coming from this place at all.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
No, what's surprising is how much like Elliott Roger he is.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh, I'm not surprised by that. Fucking losersss God.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
And of course that is the overwhelming thing that you
say to yourself when you get into some real deep
study of the Nazis is these fucking losers.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
All you can say fucking losers.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know who's not losers though, Brandy? Who the wonderful
sponsors who support this show and or program with their
products and or services and or add petro dollar, add money.
I'm spinning out of control here. Products We're back, boy.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Love those products.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Hate Hitler exactly, And there's nothing that's a squeegey for
your brain as well as a solid product or just
a nice service, especially on like a hot Hitler ful day.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Just like being told the possibilities.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
The possibilities, you know what. Nazis didn't like possibilities, of
course not, but that's what you get with products and
services as possibilities. Yes, a lot of good economic discourse
coming out of this episode. We should write a book.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Let's write another Hitler book.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
There enough there, there should be a couple more Hitler books. Okay,
so most of our what.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Hitler think about square space?

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Why would Hitler think about square space?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I don't like the free speech of the internet.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
You know, I hate to say this because it's what
I do to make my living. But Hitler would a
thousand percent be a podcaster if he were around the day.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
I mean, he like wrote at length about how the
best way, the only real way to convince anyone of
anything was with the human voice. Yeah, and like the
power of like radio to isolate someone with a voice
and to really influence their thought, which is one of
the things that scares me about the podcast era. But
we're getting.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
A whole supper converse. Yeah, he would be like an
Alex Jones type, but like with his own show.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, but like, yeah, he would be a lot more
popular than Alex ja. Yeah he would because I don't
think Alex has a problem saying the quiet part's loud,
and Hitler was, up until the point where he took power,
usually pretty good about quietly saying the loud parts. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean that's why he won.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah. So most of our evidence for young Hitler's early
love affairs comes from a dude named August Kubazek. Now.
Kubazek is a heavily debated figure amongst Hitler scholars. He
wrote a book about his childhood with Hitler after the war.
It apparently started during the Third Reich as a pro
Hitler like Nazi biography, and then after the war, he
was like, well, I mean, I've already got this stuff down.

(33:06):
People are gonna want to know what Hitler was like
as a kid, so I'm gonna write this book. Some
of what he says is definitely either a lie or
stretching the truth. There's a lot of debate over how
much to trust him, but it's also incontrovertible that he
grew up with Hitler, that he was Hitler's really only
friend as a kid, and that they lived together. They
were essentially like freshman college roommates in the big city.

(33:26):
Like so he no one else has this perspective. So
kubaz X's book is an irreplaceable source for the early
years of Hitler's life. You can't under like you have
to be critically read him. You have to read him.
I've read kubaz X's book, of course, and it's really interesting.
If you do take it well, I would recommend reading
like a John Toland or an Ian Kershaw biography first
and then go into kubaz X so you've got some

(33:48):
sort of context for it. I'm going to be quoting
from all three of these sources in the next little
bit here, because it provides a good synthesis, and I
trust those guys to separate probable truth from probable live
better than I trust myself, because they're elderly Hitler scholars
and I'm just a Hitler nerd Anyway, Kubazek recalls exactly
one romantic focus for Hitler in his young years, a

(34:09):
girl named Stephanie who lived in Lynz. That was the
small town that he grew up in. Now. Hitler was
madly in love with Stephanie, and we have no evidence
that she ever knew anything about him. In fact, later
in life after the war, when she was told that
Adolf Hitler had been in love with her, she was
shocked and horrified, which is it's a dick move to
tell any what that Yeah, oh man, what.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
A bummer, because you're just like, am I responsible for you? Like?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
You get through this horrible war. She was an austri
She saw some shit. It would have been a nightmare
for anyone living in that region. You get through this
horrible war, and then like years later, someone's like, by
the way, Hitler wanted to fuck you?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
What would you ever tell anybody that process that baby
Hitler popping boners to you? Don't tell her that yeah,
because then that just makes you just rethink everything.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
About is this my fault? No, Stephanie, you didn't definitely not.
You didn't do anything wrong. I mean, you've been dead
for decades, but you seem fine.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
You're listening somewhere.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, we get a medium.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
You should be doing this podcast with a medium to
contact some of these people and be like, hey, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be fine. Yeah. That's actually similar
to another podcast idea I have, which is using a
medium to sexually harass dead bastards. I really just want
to like see how uncomfortable I can make chairman now.
Oh yeah, yeah, like really really get in there and
like Locke his ghost in a room. Yes, yeah, see
where it goes.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I am on board for that.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
I think we all are. So if you want to,
So Hitler was in love with this girl who knew
nothing about him. He became convinced. And this is while
they're in like elementary school essentially like early high school era,
that kind of thing. Like he's a teenager, young teenager.
So during this, oh yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
In marching band. I had one of these kids know
exactly who this is.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
I don't know if there's a woman I've met who
didn't have one of these kids in they're life. That's
one of the ski Yeah. Anyway, so Hitler became convinced
that Stephanie was sending him secret signals and messages only
he could see, and he would yeah, yeah, they were
destined to be together. He would rant about all this
to Kubazek, and Kubazek claims he was pretty like questioning
of all this stuff to Hitler, but like only to

(36:17):
an extent. Kubazeck did try to convince Hitler that if
he needed to at least talk to this girl, if
there's gonna be any hope of her liking him, at
the very least, he suggested that Hitler should learn to dance,
because he knew that Stephanie liked dancing, which is like
solid advice, like, okay, get interested in something this girl's
interested in, have a similar interest. Pretty solid advice today.

(36:39):
So here's Kubazek quote, all this is no good, adolph
I replied, Stephanie is fond of dancing. If you want
to conquer her, you will have to dance around just
as aimlessly and idiotically as the others. That was all
that was needed to set him off raving. No, no, never,
he screamed at me, I shall never dance. Do you
understand Stephanie only dances because she is forced to by society,
on which she unfortunately depends. Once she is my wife,

(37:00):
she won't have the slightest desire to dance. That is
and Kopa's X books a generally pretty pro Hitler book,
Like not pro the stuff Hitler did is like he's
obviously against the third Reich, but like he presents a
sympathetic view of Hitler. And this is how he describes it. Wow,
what a I mean, what a little maniac?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Isn't the sores for the word loser? It's truly insane, Like, no,
I'll never dance, She'll stop dancing.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
She'll stop dancing too.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
She'sn't even dancing because she wants to society.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
It sounds like a Reddit post.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
It sounds like a Reddit post. He'd be top, he
would be he would be so addicted to slash Pole,
like he would never get off of that fucking ship.
He'd be an eight chan like he'd be deep into
this ship. Dance Never, I shall never dance, Adolf Hitler,

(37:58):
there's your fucking t.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Shirt, guilty feet, ain't got no rhythm?

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Oh shit, yes nice? Oh boy? What are the good songs?
They always they always get it right, So exactly obvious.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Actually about Hitler.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
It is about all music is about Hitler, one way
or the other. YEP, that's my theory. We'll talk about
Toto's Africa. It's it's a it's a stretch. But I'll
get you there now, I get I got a diagram,
I got a diagram. It's about the desert fox. And now, obviously,
waiting around and being an insane person did not woo Stephanie. Gradually,

(38:34):
Hitler started to realize that she wasn't going to fall
to him. According to Koubazak, Hitler reacted like you'd expect
a modern day insult to react with threats of violence.
Of course, quote Stephanie was at that time in an
unfriendly mood. She would pass the basically nearby road with
her face averted, as though Hitler did not exist at all.
This bought brought him to the verge of despair. I
can't stand it any longer, he exclaimed. I will make

(38:55):
an end of it. It was the first and as
far as I know, the last time that Adolf contemplated
suite A side seriously. It was not. He would jump
into the river from the Danube Bridge, he told me,
and then it would be over and done with. But
Stephanie would have to die with him. He insisted on that.
Once more, a plan was thought up in all its details.
Every single phase of the horrifying tragedy was minutely described,
including the part I would have to play. Even my

(39:18):
conduct of this as the sole survivor was ordained. The
somber scene was with me even in my dreams.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Young Hitler, oh God, just the most emo little shit want.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
To kill himself and a girl he doesn't know him. God,
had he even talked to her at this point, well,
as far as we know they he never said a
word to her.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh my god. I just you can't hate him more.
But you find new depths.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
You find new depths of Yeah, like, yeah, Hitler, oh.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Here's a new cavity of hate haven't filled for you.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
I didn't expect this fucking loser so out you know.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
That he's a loser. And then it's just like from
this age too, you're like, oh God, just go to
a toastmaster's class or something, you piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
This is part of why I get all frustrated when
people are like, he was a sexual serial killer and
that's why. No, dude, he was just a lame ass dude.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
He's for sure like an Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am old.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
I am old this woman and she doesn't deserve to
live if she doesn't like me, even though I've never
even talked to her.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Like, there were his parents together, his entires.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
His dad died when he was, you know, in his teens,
and his mom died not all that, I mean, his
dad died when he was pretty young, and his mom
died also when he was pretty young, like again an adult,
So his I don't think he had His dad was
pretty authoritarian, but once his dad kicked off, it was
kind of just his mom, and she was sort of
he was a mama's boy. She was sort of a
doting mom. So was that Clara, Yeah, Clara Hitler, Clara Hitler, Yeah,

(40:44):
yeah Hitler. Adolf Hitler's mom was Clara.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Okay, okay, I see gotcha. Yeah, So it's he's born
in incest and then yeah, his dad dies and then
he's raised way okay, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah. Yeah, So outside of his obsession with Stephanie kubaz
X says he doesn't know if any individual women in
Hitler's life in this period, certainly no one he might
have fucked. When they became young adults and moved to
Vienna together, Hitler remained unlate. Here's John Toland's coverage of
Kubuzek's recollection quote. On promenades, girls and women would often
slightly glance at them. At first, Kubazek thought their interest

(41:16):
was directed to him, but it soon became apparent that
the reserved Adolph was the object. He coldly ignored their
silent invitations if the two did nothing about sex. They
spent hours at night discussing women, love and marriage, with Adolph,
as usual, dominating the conversation. Over and over. He insisted
that he must keep the flame of life pure. That is,
he believed, in accordance with his Catholic upbringing, a man

(41:36):
and a woman should keep themselves chaste in body and
soul until Mary's and just thus be worthy of producing
healthy children for the nation. But the dark side of
sex also haunted him, and he talked by the hour
about depraved sexual customs. He railed against prostitution, condemning not
only the whoors and their customers, but society. His condemnation
approached obsession, and one night, after attending a performance of

(41:56):
Weddikin's Spring Awakening, he took Gustell's arm and said, we
must see the sink of iniquity. Once they turned down
a small, dark alley it was the Spittelberg Gusa, and
walked past a row of small hostels so brightly lit
that they could see the girls inside in their scanty
and slovenly attire. They sat there, recalled Kubazek, making up
their faces and combing their hair and looking at themselves
in the mirror, without, however, for one moment, losing sight

(42:19):
of the men strolling by. Occasionally a man would stop
in front of a house converse with a girl, and
the light would go out. When the two youths reached
the end of the alley, Adolf maneuvered them in an
about face, and they took another long look at the
appalling site. Back in their room, Adolf went into a
lengthy tirade on the evils of prostitution, with quote a
cold objectivity, as though it were a question of his
attitude towards the fight against tuberculosis or towards cremation. Wow,

(42:42):
so this is young Hitler, celibate, wo angry about other
people not being celibate, and a real thought audit level
hatred of sex workers.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
He is gallons of come and his sleep hm at
this point in his life. I mean, every fucking night,
what a what a.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Shitty little his socks shatter when they're tried.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Seriously, I cannot imagine, like how many fucking wet dreams a.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Dude happened, and they're all about the stuff that he
says is terrible. Yeah, because that's why you rant about
this for hours to your best friend. You're concealing an
erection as he yells about prostitution out there trying.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
To make a living of any kind in this world.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Again, we all knew a Hitler. Oh yeah, we've all
known this kid.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Oh god, no, absolutely, oh god, yeah, he is the
one that he's like, that's like one of the names
that you text the other people you went to high
school with that you just laugh about when you hear
their name. Ye remember that guy?

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Oh fuck yeah, oh that guy. Yeah yeah. So Hitler's
mom died like right before this point of like a
really really horrifying cancer. Uh, and then you know, he
wound up in with Kubazek, which is where that happened.
They lived together for a while, but Kubazek was successful,
like he was a really good musician, and Hitler, you know,
didn't get into art school. That's a pretty famous story.

(44:06):
He eventually ran out of money and wound up living
in a men's home, which was essentially like a homeless
shelter for vagrants. According to Ian Kershaw, being homeless did
not improve Hitler's game.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, I can't imagine that it would.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Quote should be fair.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
A home wouldn't have improved his game.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
It seems like he was kind of hopeless either way.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I don't would help. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Quote. When his circle of acquaintances got round to discussing
women and doubtless their own former girlfriends and sexual experiences,
the best Hitler could come up with was a veiled
reference to Stephanie, who had been his first love, though
she never knew it because he never told her. The
impression left with Reinhold Hainisch was that Hitler had very
little respect for the female sex but very austere ideas
about relations between men and women. Hainish recalled Hitler telling

(44:49):
him of a brief encounter with a milkmaid while he
was still at school, ending abruptly when she made advances
and he ran away, knocking over a churn of milk
in his haste. This was probably a lie by Hitler.
Hitler described his own eye deal woman is cuddle. Is
a cute, cuddly, naive little thing, tender, sweet and stupid. Cool.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Cool, that's great. You want a baby? Peace? Well, I mean, yeah,
it runs in his blood.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Does run in his blood?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Oh god, it's gonna be weird how much it runs
in his blood. But first we're back, okay, so uh.
Hitler also claimed during this period that women would inherently

(45:38):
quote rather bow to a strong man than dominate a weakling.
Even for the time, young Hitler was seen as a
bit of a prude. This meant he didn't fit in
super well in Turn of the century Enna, where erotic
art was in vogue and people were starting to do
the nineteen oh nine version of opening up a little bit.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
What's because he's just like popping boners all over them,
just popping Everyone could see him.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
His leader hosenes just like an arrow.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, it's just like constantly, just like very sweaty and pink,
with like a.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Giant, angry direct terrible artists screaming at everybody and talking
about how it's bad to come instantly Hitler, Oh, god nerd.
So one of the things that was happening in Vienna
this time, in the turn of the century is that
rules about women's modesty had started to change and women

(46:28):
were allowed to I mean, we're not talking like woke
by our standards, but things are improving, you know, things
are improving, and some women are pushing the envelope, both
professionally and then just how they present themselves to the world.
Young Hitler did not like that, of course. Here's an
excerpt from Kershaw's book again quote where decency demanded that
women were scarcely allowed to even show an ankle. Hitler's

(46:49):
embarrassment and the rapidity with which he fled with his
friend when a prospective landlady, during a search for a
room for Kubazek, let her silk dressing gown fall open
to reveal that she was wearing nothing but a pair
of knickers. But his brittishness went far beyond this. It amounted,
according to kubaz x account, to a deep disgust and
repugnance at sexual activity. Hitler avoided contact with women, meeting
with cold indifference during visits to the opera alleged attempts

(47:10):
by young women, probably seeing him as something of an oddity,
to flirt with or tease him. He was repelled by homosexuality.
He refrained from masturbation. Prostitution horrified but fascinated him. He
associated it with venereal disease, which petrified him. So it
is again hard to say how much of Kuba's x
account is true. If Hitler was originally super anti gay,

(47:31):
for example, he definitely got over that shit by the
time he was out of the army. Ernst Rome, the
head of the Brown Shirts, was a flamboyantly gay man
who was flagrant about his love life. Hitler did eventually
kill Rome, but only after he was in power, and
some accounts say he resisted doing so for a very
long time and expressed angst over the decision. Basically, Rome
wanted to replace the German Army with the Brown Shirts,
and that's why Hitler had to get rid of him,

(47:52):
and there was definitely like he was willing to kill
him because he was gay and he was seen as
like a liability, but Hitler wasn't inherently against the idea
of working with like It seems like he moderated on
that as during his time in the army, at least
from like a one point of view or another. There's
debate about how much. But one thing that didn't change
from Kubas X's memory of him was Hitler's obsession with

(48:13):
venereal disease. The subject came up frequently in mind camp
and in Hitler's early speeches. He generally like would compare
the Jewish refugees immigrating to the country as like a
form of venereal disease. And there was a lot of
anti Semitic claims that Jewish prostitutes were spreading typhus. And
there's actually a rumor that Hitler himself got syphilis from
a prostitute sometime and like when he was a young adult.

(48:35):
Some in Wisenthal, the fame Nazi Hunter, went to his
grave believing this, even though there's no good evidence about it.
There's a lot of weird questions as to why people
is someone like Wisenthal who's a Holocaust however himself would
be so much like into wanting to believe this, Yeah
a reason. It's also there's like some weird A lot

(48:56):
of the attempts to explain Hitler kind of come across
as blaming a Jewish person for his hatred of Jewish people,
which is really problematic.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, that's an issue.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Kubuzek, for his part, always claimed that Hitler was,
to the best of his knowledge, a normal dude, sexually
not homosexual, not into anything weird, just like kind of
a sexually frustrated young man. Kubuzek was so emphatic about
that because by the nineteen fifties, when he was working
on his book, there were numerous rumors that Hitler had

(49:26):
been gay. This conspiracy theory is best embodied by the
book The Pink Swastika from nineteen ninety five. That book
was a major source for Denish Desso's a documentary where
Denish claims that Democrats are the modern Nazis and that
gay people are Nazis and Hitler was gay, as a
regular headline in far right publications. I found one on
Breitbart from twenty sixteen that just said, new evidence from

(49:47):
his doctors shows Hitler was gay. Obviously, it's not new evidence,
it's it's the old OSS reports that suggested Hitler was homosexual.
Of course, in the OSS document, doctor Langer wrote, quote,
his sex life is as dual as plitical outlook. He
is both a homosexual and heterosexual, both socialist and fervent nationalists,
both man and woman. Again, that's just like psychoanalytic bullshit.

(50:08):
There's there's no evidence that he was homosexual. He was
okay with working with gay men, yeah, but like there's
no evidence beyond that. It's like, yeah, one of the
things that's interesting to me is when you read a
lot of like the old nineteen thirties and late twenties
news articles criticizing Hitler. A lot of these like nineteen
twenties German journalists, some of whom are conservative, when they're

(50:29):
talking about like homosexuality with the Nazi Party go out
of their way to not condemn homosexuality, to just be
like that, we're condemning the Nazis because their attitudes on
homosexuality are so negative, but they have all these gay members. Yeah,
which is more nuanced than I expected out of like
nineteen twenties journalists in Germany.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Very interesting. Well, yeah, it does make a lot of
sense though, because it's like I mean, coming after World
War One, you're in the trenches with men, and you
need some kind of comfort.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
To probably a lot of dudes fucking in World War One. Share.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Yeah, yeah, just to feel like you're a person and
not just part of a meat grinder. Yeah, you know,
so it's like, I'm sure that definitely.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
You know, it was part of why attitudes started to
open up, right until the Nazis clammed them shut again.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Now, Just so we covered the basics of Hitler's life here,
Hitler served in World War One. Obviously, he was at
the front basically the entire war. There are rumors, as
we covered in our Children of Dictators episode, that he
fathered a son with a French woman during this time.
This is very much doubted by historians, the kind of
thing you can't debunk. But for what it's worth, the
son of the guy who thought he was Hitler's son

(51:33):
says that Hitler was a gentle lover to his grandma.
I don't know what that's based on. Seems like a reach.
It seems like a weird flex too.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a gentle love. Here's the thing. I
don't even know. I feel like he would be just
like a petrified guy that would like come really quickly.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
I'm gonna guess that is more accurate.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, that feels way like yeah, he's probably all fucking
talk and then he's just like, oh okay, sorry, yeah,
oh no, he says I'm sorry when he comes.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, that's the Hitler.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Now, when Hitler got back from World War One, he
was sent by his military superiors to infiltrate a meeting
of the National Socialist Political Party. And yet, you know
the rest, more or less, he started giving speeches there,
became a figure in the National Socialist Party, consolidated power,
and plotted his you know, not quite meteoric, but eventually
total rise to power. Now, we don't have a whole

(52:28):
lot on Hitler's sexuality during the early nineteen twenties or
his relationships. Hanschtangele is one of the main sources for
the claims that Hitler might have been gay, and he
said stuff like this quote. Obvious prostitutes barely admitted to
the Kaiserhoff hotel were fervently admired by him, provided that
they appeared in couples or with a man. A solitary
woman is usually ignored by him, unless he is in

(52:49):
a large crowd and can send in someone to find
out her identity. He always wishes to be a spectator,
do you know, he once said to doctor Sedgwick in
nineteen twenty three, the audience at the circus is just
like a woman. Someone who does not understand that intrinsically
feminine character of the mass will never be an effective speaker.
Ask yourself, what does a woman expect from a man? Clearness,
decision power, action Like a woman, the masses fluctuate between extremes.

(53:12):
What we want is to get the masses to act.
This can obviously not be done with an appeal to
their selfishness, nor to their cowardice, but by an appeal
to their idealism, their courage, and their spirit of sacrifice.
Who has more the spirit of sacrifice than a woman?
If she has talked too properly, she will be proud
to sacrifice, because no woman will ever feel that her
life sacrifices have received their duel fulfillment. It's Hitler analyzing

(53:33):
the German people and interesting.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, you know, just what a first date?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
What a first date? Hans Stangele claims to have asked
him once, why don't you marry, and he says. Hitler answered, quote,
marriage is not for me and never will be. My
only bride is my motherland. Then, seemingly with no sequence
of ideas, he added, there are two ways in which
a man's character may be judged by the woman he
marries and by the way he dies. In nineteen twenty three,
when Hanstangle once playfully six, if not a bride, you

(54:01):
ought to have a mistress, Hitler replied, politics is a woman.
He who loves her unhappily bites off his head. So
this is one of the versions of Hitler. You get
that he's just too busy being the embodiment of Germany
to flirt with ladies.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
What a piece of I.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Think he continues that line the rest of his life.
I think in this stage it's not true. But he's
not actually dating around that much, and in this stage
he's still too awkward. He starts to have success with
women when he gets popular, Yeah, when.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
He starts getting some power, because then it's not about him,
it's about the mythic thing that he's created.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
And in that case, he keeps saying that out loud
and hiding his relationships with women. But he's also fucking
some people. So anyway, that's the way this goes. So
it's hard, basically impossible to say when Hitler lost his virginity.
We do have one spectacular example of Hitler striking out
with a lady. It happened in nineteen twenty three, right
before Hitler's famous beer hall push, when they were at

(54:57):
Burkdis Garden. Now the story is related by Honchstangle, who
had come to visit Hitler in Burkedus Garden on invitation,
but like Hitler, didn't like own a house there or anything.
At that point, they were all staying in a hotel.
The manager of the hotel was a guy named her Buckner,
who was a German flying ace in World War One
and who had, according to Honstangle, a quote strikingly buxom,

(55:17):
six foot tall blonde wife, which made her taller than Hitler.
This rather vulgar, sensuous, blue eyed woman had manifestly succeeded
in completely inflaming Hitler to a degree that made him
seem entirely beyond himself. His breath was short, his cheeks feverish,
his eyes filled with exaltation. In a swashbuckling manner, Hitler
was strutting up and down the large veranda and garden,
swinging his whip. He would stop now and again to

(55:39):
talk to Frau Buckner, whip in hand, punctuating his sentences
with the whip in a schoolboy fashion. He was obviously
showing off talking at Frau Buckner in the numerous gallery
of admiring females, all party adherents he made, However, no
impression on Frau Buckner. On and on he went through
the whole afternoon, acting the desperado, the wild man, the
man of destiny. The whole performance seemed hopefully pubescent and empty.

(56:01):
Oh god, Hitler just just whacking swinging a whip, trying
to flirt with a girl.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Check out my whip.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Check the shit out? How good I am with his whip?
Are you impressed?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Think I look good?

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Oh that's like the nineteen twenties version of just like yeah,
watching somebody play video games? Check it out?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
No, check out out good I am? So we get
this headshot.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Have so many potions. Think of how many potions I have.
It's not real no now.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Hitler also had a gigantic crush on his friend Putsy's wife,
Helen A. Hompstangle. Ian Kershaw writes quote, on one occasion,
he took advantage of Putsy Hompstangle's brief absence from the
room to fall on his knees in front of Helen
a Hompstangle, describing himself as her slave and bemoaning the
faith that had led him to her too late. When
Helen had told him of the incident, puts he put
it down to Hitler's need to play the role of

(56:49):
the languishing troubadour from time to time.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
This guy just like needed to be like that. He's
a cuck, is what he actually is. That I think
is what he would have preferred.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
He needed a good sex therapist, say no, dude, just
do this.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah yeah, yeah exactly, just like ask like, watch some
of your friend's bone. That's why I think you that's.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Why I think you'd be happiest with Hitler. Maybe give
up politics and just watch your friend's bone. Yeah, be
that guy, Be that guy that's so yeah compared to Hitler,
that's a great guy to be.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah. Well, and especially like that is the child of
a dad uncle. Yeah, I mean, like that's what your
kid becomes.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah. So when Putsy later expressed the worry that Hitler
was essentially trying to steal his wife's affections. Helena told
Putsy not to worry. Hitler was quote an absolute neuter,
so that was Helena's attitude towards him. Now, Hitler would
later prove them in the oss wrong. Actually, in the
early autumn of nineteen twenty six, when the rising fascist

(57:46):
political star I met a girl named Mimi Writer. We
will talk about her Hitler's courtship process and his preferences
in fucking in part two of this podcast, But right now,
it's the end of the episode till Thursday when we
talk about the rest of this stuff. I see, Yeah, that.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Was just that's just getting us to this, to me me.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
That's just getting us to me, me, giving us to
me me. Maybe the first girl, it's really well, not
the first girl he fucks, but like the first girl,
we have a lot of detail on how he courted her.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
I see.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
So we're gonna be talking a lot about how Hitler
flirted with girls.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Was finally moving on from his fucking hand.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
His fucking hand, his leader hos.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Yeah, exactly. That he's such a he's such a.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Loser, he's such a loser.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
I just wish ick beennign loser. There needs to be
like what is the.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
People need to know? How lame we we always do,
Like it's either like Hitler at the end of the war,
where he's like a sick old man, or like Hitler
is this terrifying warlord. Yeah, and we miss out on
in Cell Hitler.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
You definitely nail the Elliott Rogers perspective for sure. Like,
and it's so interesting too, because it seems like he
skipped right to in cell, Like he didn't have this
like game phase where he was even trying to make
it work. He just immediately knew that he needed power
of any kind to get anybody because he was such a.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Zero because he yeah, there was otherwise no chance.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, the entitlement, all of it.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Yeah, it's uh hate it. It's gross. You know. I
try not to like psychoanalyze how much of this was,
like did he get into power because he went Like
I think it was probably ancillary and everyone does things
for a lot of reasons. But like you can't look
at his backstory and not see that like frustrated kid
who just like, yeah, doesn't understand why some people are
good at that And he's not, and like he's pissed

(59:31):
because of it.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Well, and it's just like the entitlement as opposed to
like growing yourself and making yourself a more rounded learning
to dance. Yes exactly, I mean that, that's exactly. It's
all these kind of guys. It's just like, just get
a hobby that isn't just like trying to fuck somebody.
It's like not just be a well rounded person in
your own regard, and then people will be interesting for
people to be interested in you.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, because his whole thing, And like in koubas X's book,
it becomes like the way he portrays Hitler's like he
loves talking about his opinions on everything, of course, but
he's not good at much. No, he just loves to
talk about what he thinks about things. Yeah, of course,
And like learn to dance, man, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Kind of self important with nothing to back it up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
It's just we don't care. Learn to dance.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah, like life's not that serious. Just like, learn to
dance a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Go do something besides yell at people. Hitler, Yeah, get
a fucking dog, yeah, get a fucking dog. Well he
did do that, and we will talk about how dogs
play into his flirtation style soon, of course they do.
It's gonna be gross. Brandy, you got some pluggables to plug.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Yeah. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at
brand Dazzle b r A n d A z z
l E. I have a podcast called Lady to Lady
that's very fun every Wednesday me Barbara Gray Test Barker
with a fourth guest every week. And then if you
were in Los Angeles, I have a monthly show every
second Saturday called Picture This that is it's the Virgil.

(01:00:56):
It's a ten dollars show. It's a comedians paired up
with animators, my live anime, your jokes during your set.
It's very, very fun. We just had Pendleton Ward, the
creator punch Time on the Last Last One.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Craig Bartlett does our show a lot. He's the creator,
Hey Arnold, and we have people from like BoJack and
thick Mouth and like all sorts of awesome cartoon shows.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
It's super smp oh man, it's crazy. Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yeah, it's really fun. And second Saturday every month it's
my favorite thing to do. And then I tour like
half the year. So Brandy Posey dot com and yeah,
that sounds.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
So much more gratifying than just talking about hitler sex life.
It is, but if you're into Hitler's sex life, you
should follow my Twitter. Yeah I met I right, Okay,
you should follow this show's Twitter. At Bastards Pod. You
find the sources for this episode and every episode on
behind the Bastards dot com. Look us up on Tea Public,
Behind the Bastards Tea Public, buy a shirt, wear it.

(01:01:49):
Fight Hitler even though he's dead and you're not actually
fighting him. Just buy a shirt and feel better. Yeah, ibitalism.
You can find us on Twitter and on Instagram and
at Bastards Pod. Sophie's in here, and this is a
goddamn train wreck. Play me out, Johnny, We're back. Wait,

(01:02:14):
I mean, I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastard Podcast.
Bad people talk about Brandy Posey.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
That's me. We are here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
It's part two, Part two. Hitler focks, Hitler fucks Boogoloo,
Hitler dick. Everybody's thinking about it, and everybody's thinking about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
It, everybody but Hitler's stupid dick.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Hitler STUDI and I'm gonna guess you know he doesn't
seem like a guy who did a lot of core
strengthening exercises. So I'm going to guess a little little
low energy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
No, Yeah, Hitler is like, uh, like a like a
like a five pump kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
I know, I know what his hair would do because
I can imagine like a sweat drenched fucking Hitler with
just like that little thing flipping down on the front
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
He's just constantly just yeah, so mad, Like every organizasm
makes him mad because it makes him happy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
It just gets angrier and angrier the more he comes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Yeah, exactly like Hitler. Why does it make me feel good?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I don't understand is bad Hitler? That was going a
little Russian there, a little a little yeah, I'm not
great at accents. It's okay anyway, Uh, the podcast The Hitler.
When we left off, we had just sort of established
Hitler's youth in his young adulthood, the way his best
friends talked about him and his sexual life, although after

(01:03:32):
they were no longer his best friends. So again, I'll
take everything you hear about Hitler with a little bit
of salt.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
One thing we know about the guy for sure is
that burkedis Goden was his happy place. It's basically a
quiet mountain town where he had eventually built a giant
fortress up there. But it was he had like a
room on to the top of the mountain where he
could stare pensively at it the skyline and contemplate being Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
He just needed Emo.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
I think he just needed like Elliot Smith would have
saved the world lot of problems.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yeah, exactly, I feel so seen, I feel so seen.
He is also right life his pain. I understand him
becoming a Transylvanian.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
So the accidents are going to be all over the
fucking place. Well, oh boy. Now, in autumn of nineteen
twenty six, Hitler took a trip to burke has Gotten
in order to relax and plot the Nazi Party's next
series of electoral coups. Well, he was staying at a
fancy hotel.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Oh writer's retreat.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Yeah, basically a writer's retreat. Yeah, he was going up
to Big Bear to like write, get his tight five down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Wonder if he also took a bunch of spinach with
him that he didn't end up eating.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Almost certainly, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Every writer's retreat I've ever gone on. I'm just like,
I'm bringing nothing, but kale gets eaten. I just go
to Taco Bell instead.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Hitler had that experience.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Too, Oh yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah. Now, while he was staying in a fancy hotel,
Hitler metal lady named Maria writer Mimi to her friends. Now,
young Mimi was in a rough spot in life. Her
mom had died of cancer two weeks earlier. Her dad,
a member of the Social Democratic Party, had pulled her
out of her Catholic boarding school to help run the
family clothing store. Now, the store was located in the
bottom floor of the hotel where Hitler was staying, and

(01:05:17):
Hitler saw her as soon as he arrived. Seemingly at once,
this thirty seven year old politician saw a grieving sixteen
year old girl and was like, I gotta give me
some of that, Hitler, It's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
The only moment his dad's ever been proud of him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Like, hell, there's one more. Okay, great, of course, probably
a couple.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Like father, uncle, like son and cousin uncle.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Now, even at the time, sixteen was a bit young
for a middle aged man to date. A yeah, yeah, yeah.
That became a pattern with Hitler. The older he grew
the age of the girls he flirted with state the
same yep yep tracks.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Yeah, no, I here's the thing. Nothing you've said is
surprising to me. You're just like, yeah, no, I that
fills in that part of the puzzles.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
In that part of the puzzle, it's just like picking
up little pieces. This guy's not such a mystery. Yeah,
I feel like I've known a.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Few of him. It's mostly it's one of those like
it's a puzzle of just like a piece of shit,
but with no borders, so the puzzle just keeps expanding
in every direction.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Not only do I feel like I know this guy,
I feel like I've stood in a police station with
several friends and tried to warn the police about this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Oh yeah, absolutely, it's yeah. It's one of those guys
that you're like, just get out of there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Yeah, just maybe I should just duck and roll.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Yeah, you just gotta you just gotta go. God, I
hit on sixteen year old.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
That was one of the most like I was. I was.
I've definitely told some gross jokes about women in my time,
especially when I was like seventeen, eighteen years old. Like
I grew up with the same toxic bullshit as everything else.
One of the big things in my like change of
mind state around this was just the fact that like
coming to a realization throughout my twenties that like, well,
every woman I know has been scared for her life
at some point during a date. I'm just worried about like,
am I tipping enough? Like is she gonna judge?

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Yeah? I like the stakes are very very different different, Yeah, like,
oh I get it. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Hitler's one of those guys today who would have made
a lot of women scared.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah exactly, and then been like, oh, it's
your problem, it's your problem.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
It's like, no, man, I'm not sure what the accents are.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Going to have a little bit of empathy the situation
that might be different from yours.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Yeah, uh so. Ian Kershaw notes quote Hitler preferred women
much younger than himself, girls he could dominate who would
be obedient, playthings but not get in his way. I
guess he seems pretty accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Yeah. Hitler waited until he saw Mimi out of work,
sitting on a bench in a nearby park with her
sister playing with their dog, which, okay, better move than
flirtin are at work? Wait till she's out and you know,
a social public situation or whatever. She's not alone, so
you're not like, you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Know, you could not with the work.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Yeah, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if
you're gonna like game like question Hitler so far solve
of the opening moves you could not not terrible and
in the fact that she's a literal teenager. So he
goes up to this girl.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
What is this guy? A Republican potentially a senator from Louisiana.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
I was basically, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Yeah, that's not like this happens today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
So he's a pretty big name in Germany in nineteen
twenty six, and Mimi recognizes him immediately. Not a lot
of guys look like Hitler. Yeah, yeah, that is one
of he's Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Yeah, it's recognizable.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
He pretty much like that's a Hitler right there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Did he have a mustache at this point?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Oh yeah, we're about to talk about that. So Mimi
later talked to interviewers and I'm going to quote the
book explaining Hitler's kind of the way it put together
her recollection of how Hitler flirted with her during this period. Quote,
she describes the affair. In the language of a Harlequin
romance novel, Hitler is the stiff, somewhat ruthless stranger who
first appears with a dog and a whip, but is

(01:08:50):
later melted into a schoolgirl fantasy lover by her charms.
Quote from Mimi there is the famous Hitler, recently released
from prison. She's told He was wearing breeches, a light
vlure hat, she recalls, and his hand was a writing whip.
He had warm, light gray stockings and a windbreaker that
was held together by a leather belt. Beside him walked
a beautiful shepherd. He sees her too, and is theatrically captivated.

(01:09:11):
He asks Mimi's sister, could you introduce me to this bliss?
Mimi is brought over. He transferred his writing whip from
his right hand to his left, gave me his hand
and looked at me with a piercing gaze, and praised
her dog. The dog is really beautiful and well trained.
You are really good at that. They talked about dogs
for an hour. Hitler quote did not take his eyes
off of Mimi. Then he very formally asked her sister

(01:09:32):
Annie whether she would permit him to take Mimi for
a walk. Sometime at that she Mimi got up and
ran away. So this is the first meeting. Still she
was fascinated in a starstrke way. He looks quite dashing
with his breeches and his writing whip. There is one
note that spoils the picture, his mustache, the funny flies
she calls the black hairy growths between beneath Hitler's nose.

(01:09:53):
He was still figuring out the mustache at this point.
So she's I mean, she's a literal child, but isn't
an entirely against it at first, but runs off when
she's flirted with which again, this is fucking nineteen twenty six.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, And it's also like, at
a certain point, having been like a young gal, that
you kind of have to endure those things. You you're
polite until you see an exit, and then you're like, okay,
time to go. I'm not gonna Also, I'm not going
to like outright rebuke you because you're in a position
of power.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah. Well, it's weird because she recalls this as like
a positive thing, Okay, see, but it's also like, yeah,
she's recalling this years later, and like when she realizes
that she essentially hooked up with the most famous man
of the twentieth century. Yeah, so like some of this
is going to be retroactively, she's going to make it
like a thing. I don't know. I can't imagine being

(01:10:43):
that position. So I'm not gonna judge Memi writer.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
No, no, no, no, she's a child.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Also, she's sixteen. Yeah, yeah, he's the thirty seven year
old approaching her. So Pitler invited Mimi and her sister
to a Nazi party meeting where he was giving a speech.
He wasn't allowed to give public speeches in nineteen twenty
six condition of his parole. So he's an older man
with a parole history. Like, who's on parole? Hit not
a sixteen year old?

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
What he is? What is he a what is he
a line chef at a rib place?

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
That's exactly how he mixed his money, fucking courtsy. He's
got a tramsand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Oh god off, oh I know these guys.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
I've bought coke from Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Oh man, yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's totally who Hitler is.
Oh god, Oh, I remember working in a in a
rib place when I was when I was a teenager
in high school, Like this, I know this guy exactly.
And there's this one chef that didn't talk to me
at all until on on Valentine's Day he brought me
a candy heart that had a picture of a moose

(01:11:47):
on it and it said you a moose me okay.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
And I remember just being like, thanks, that's a move.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
I And then he had like a child, he had
like a baby that he brought to one of my
ship I was like, cool, glad, you're introduced me to
your baby. I don't give a shit about this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
So how long have you all been married?

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
He's probably dead.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
I hope he is in a healthy society. That's what happens. Yeah,
the Hitler like guide dies of a coke overdose in
his car and at age thirty four.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Yeah, no, exactly, I just remember, man, No, that's who
Hitler was, for sure. That's fucking fry cook.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Was fry cook. In a healthy society, all our Hitlers
are fry cooks. Yeah, and some of our fry cooks
become Anthony Bourdaines, but none of our Anthony Boardines become Hitler's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
No, none, no, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yeah, that's that's a healthy society.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Yeah, anyway, uh so, yeah, Hitler since that this teenager
was attracted to his fame, so he like really played
that up. After this big event, he put her and
her sister at the head table for dinner and sat
them right next to him, so they felt like they
were at the center of this big, important political meeting.
I mean, it was a big important political the nts'
woun up a charge.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
But it's funny like thinking about like from the perspective
of the other Nazis in the room, just like, Oh,
and Hitler has.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Two children with the boss is hitting on a teenager.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Cool this, We're on the right side of it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
We're the right ones.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
We're the good guys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
We're doing great.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Yeah, we had a fucking cook, pedophile boss running a party.
We're on the right side of history.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
I feel like we're the good guys. Yeah, which totally are.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
God.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
She later recalled, and I have to remind you she's
talking about Hitler here. Quote. I was very embarrassed and blushed.
It was as if he had organized the meeting just
for me, as if all that counted for him now
was to just conquer me. She was apparently feeling that
during dinner, Hitler quote fed her pieces of cake like
a little child. He treated her like a child, and
then again like a grown woman. After dinner, he talked

(01:13:49):
about her dead mom and told her that she had
the same eyes as his dead mom. Hitler's game is
pretty weird.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Wow, god, oh, there's just so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Many lot of dead moms coming into how Hitler flirts.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Oh, ma'am, show me a picture of your dead mom.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
I hear your Masa is dead.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Show me mine. I'll show you your.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Tragically dead mas off.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Yeah, exactly. Let's put their pictures together and make them kiss.
Does this do anything for you? Just sixty nine are
dead mom's faces. Is that what you like? Little child?

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
This is how fuck? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just whipping photos of somebody else's dead mother.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Throw your mother's photo.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Yeah, it watched me cut it and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Oh boy, god, oh boy. Yeah. So uh he followed
that with uh or he followed with what Mimi described
as a coarse sexual advance, although she unfortunately does not
give the exact details of that. Yeah, give him the twenties.
It might have been him complimenting her hands or something.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Completely innocent like that, well, not completely innocent. She was sixteen,
he was thirty seven. But yeah, you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Uh. Later in the dinner, a guest asked Hitler why
he wasn't married yet. This was a pretty common question
for Hitler to get. He answered that, of course, he
had to save Germany first. According to Mimi, though at
the exact same time, quote Hitler touched my legs with
his knee and heavily stepped on my toes with his shoe,
a funny and rude hint at what he wanted to say.

(01:15:13):
This works, This works on Memy, She says, it does
at least you know, who knows how accurate her recollections.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
I mean, I get it because also, like being a
sixteen year old girl at that point, it's this is like,
this is all intoxicating, This is all very uh, it's
all very complimentary.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
And not that the two men are similar, but he's
like a similar level in national politics of someone like
Beto overwork, where people are seriously talking this guy might
be in charge soon. So there's that there's that dimension
of this.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
YEA, yeah for sure. Well, and it's also like, you know,
you've been forced to drop out of school by your dad,
like your own mind's dead. Yeah, you're only way to
a better life at this point is probably through a
man to another situation, like you aren't really probably you
aren't being primed to take.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Over a business of your Your dad's a member of
like the opposite political party, so maybe there's a little
bit of that going on too, where my dad's gonna
really hate this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
But I'm bringing home the ultimate bad boy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Yeah, there's no better date than a bad boy than
literally Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Yeah seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Okay, So, based on what you know about Hitler's game
so far, what would you expect his next step was
after talking about his dead mom and then stomping on
a girl's foot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
I mean, maybe just like putting some of his dad's
ashes on like lipstick and I'm asking for a kiss.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
Is that that would actually be less creepy? He chose
animal abuse. Oh great, here's MEMI reader quote. We went
out into the night. Hitler was about to put his
arm around my shoulders and pull me towards him, when
the two dogs suddenly attacked each other. Hitler suddenly intervened
like a maniac. He hit his dog with his writing
whip and shook him violently by the collar. He was
very excited. I did not expect that he could hit

(01:16:54):
his dog so brutally and ruthlessly, the dog which he
had said he could not live without. Yet he beat
up his loyal companion. How can you be so brutal
and beat your dog like that? I asked, it was necessary,
Hitler said, tenderly. He touched my shoulders. His mouth changed,
His voice sounded sad. Don't you want to kiss me?
He asked. She forces herself to say no, that they
shouldn't see each other again. Hitler takes the reaction badly.

(01:17:17):
He turned cold. Kindness disappeared from his face. Abruptly. He
turned away, said Hyle and left. Yeah. I mean pro tip, Hitler,
don't beat dogs on a first date.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
I shouldn't have to say that. Yeah, I shouldn't have
to say don't beat dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
No, no, no, I shouldn't have to say it anyway. Maybe
not on the first you know, you don't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Most experts say animal abuse is like a third date.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Thanks you exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
That's when you get that dog whip out. Yeah, ok, man,
you and your goddamn whip.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
He spooned that dog that night and just whispered sweetenoughing
to that poor dog's.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Ear Oh, I really feel for that dog.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Have all a Hitler's dogs, They just saw so many
sad masturbations. Yeah, absolutely did.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
We don't think enough about the suffering dog kind went
through during those years. No, it was it was rough,
I know. Yeah, poor babes. Yeah. Now, Hitler, once rejected,
was not about to give up on his dreams of
conquering this girl, literally less than half of his age.
He sent one of his men to Mimi's store the
next day. This guy told Mimi that he'd never seen
the boss so filled with love. Believe me, the man

(01:18:20):
is on fire. Now. This got me me to give
Hitler a second chance. Yeah, she agreed to a second
and it wasn't quite a date, but she agreed to
hang out with him again. He picked her up at
work and took her in a ride in his Mercedes.
He didn't drive, of course, his man Maurice handled the driving.
Hitler couldn't drive. He sat next to Mimi in the back.
Quote he took my hand and put it into his lap.

(01:18:42):
Then he took my other hand as well and pressed it.
Now I have your hands, and I have you, and
I will keep you now, you know. Yeah, A big
fan of Hitler's Hitler's Hitler's moves.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
I don't like his moves.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Okay, I don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
What Mimi needed, Like she needed like a Wilson through
the fence advice.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
You had an older man going like, oh, you shouldn't
be dating thirty seven year old Nazis. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Yeah, she needed somebody to be on her side.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Here some good adult advice. Oh god, I guess dad
was grieving. I'm not gonna hit on him too hard,
but it is kind of a failure of parenting if
your daughter dates Hitler. Yeah, when she's sixteen. You know,
adult kids can date Hitler. That's their mistake to make exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
There's a couple of lessons that should have been taught better.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Parenting at a few levels in this story would have
really really helped with some problems. Yeah so uh. For
their next date, Hitler took her to a graveyard to
see her mom's grave. What happened next is just so
strange that I I'm gonna read explaining Hitler's description because
it's it's it's weird. Quote. Hitler's overcome thinking of his

(01:19:48):
own mother, moved by something he did not want to
tell me. What he said sounded very grave and utmost distress.
I am not ready yet. Hitler, holding onto his writing whip,
comforts as sobbing Mimi, and strangely chooses that moment to
tell her, I you to call me Wolf. That was
his preferred nickname Wolf. So he takes her to his
mom's grave or her mom's grave, says he's not ready

(01:20:08):
to fuck, and then asks her to call him Wolf.
That was his favorite nickname. He thought it sounded cool.
He made all his friends call him Wolf. Secret headquarters
during the invasion of Russia was the wolf's lair. I'm
just saying he would have been one of those guys
with an unironic wolf howling at the moon shirt.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
You can't tell people your nickname.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
No, then it's not a nickname. Then it's narcissism. Yes,
if you get a cool nickname, congratulations. Yeah, but you
gotta earn it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Yes, you won't get to pick your own. Yeah, it's bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
You know what you do get to pick of your
own is the products and services that you spend your
money and or commerce units to purchase. ADS. We're back, A,
we're back. We just enjoyed the freedom of choice that
Hitler would not have approved of. Although, actually, if we're

(01:20:59):
gonna be really honest, the Nazi regime was seriously in
bed with the capitalist interest in Germany at the time
and phrased a lot of what they were doing as
a defense of free trade against unionism.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
But yeah, that's a whole that's another podcast product.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
Owners talking about his dick to day god, not the
entanglements of fascism and capitalism throughout history, his little modern day. Yeah,
it's a little little wolf wolfy, wolf Wolfy. So on
their fourth date, Hitler decided to make his move on
Mimi Reader. He took her out for a walk in

(01:21:34):
the woods and said romantic things to her and then
asked her to kiss him, which is, you know, a
pretty timeless move.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
That's a pretty classic date. I mean, to be fair,
we're going we're going.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
From mom's grave.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Mom's grave. Well, no, we're going from a from like
a dinner where he's given a step.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
From fascist political meeting. Date one where he beats a
dog at the end. Two, middle aged guy takes you
on a ride in his Mercedes. Date three, Mom's grave. Yeah,
it tells you to call him wolf wow. And then
Date four walk in the woods, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
I mean the most normal of the dates so.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Far is the walk in the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
It's solid fourth date. It's a decent time to make
that move if you're you know, she's sixteen, Jesus Hitler. Okay,
so here's mamie quote. I could feel how he clenched
his fists. I could see how he was fighting with himself,
my child, I could squash you in my arms at
this very moment, I did not resist any longer. His
true self had come out.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Yeah, this is what Hitler says in this first kiss,
maybe his first kiss ever. Yeah, maybe not. Hitler told
her that he wanted her to have his blonde Airyan babies,
but wind that he didn't have the time right now,
what with his mission to save Germany. How many times
have you just told me? I mean, speaking as a man,
we've all used that line. Oh yeah, I gotta save Germany, baby,
I just can't help it. I just Germany.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
You know you're gonna last thirty seconds a piece of
shit like please, you've got the time now.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Hitler promised to buy an apartment in Berlin for them once.
You know, he was more successful with you know, He
made promises about the kind of the furniture they'd buy
and all this stuff. He told her they'd be together forever,
but then he left burkedis gotten and ignored her for months.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
This is the worst Springsteen song.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Yeah, he just ghosts her, Yeah, ghost her for a
long time. When he returned to the mountains, finally he
didn't visit her. Being a teenager, Mimi did not take
this very well. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
It's okay, buddy, if you're gonna we're gonna go here.
Let's do this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
Let's do this. I mean, all sorts of pictures appeared
in my mind, faces of other women and Hitler smiling
at them. I did not want to go on living. Yeah,
So she attempted suicide, trying to hang herself on a
door handle with a clothesline.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Damn, Memi.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Yeah, yeah, she went for it. Her brother in law
came in at the last minute and saved her. And
according to Mimi, her brother in law had came to
save her after he had gotten a message from Hitler
that Hitler had just sent to him, explaining that he
hadn't been seeing Mimi recently because he'd been black man
by someone who'd sent a letter to the Nazi Party
office claiming that Hitler was seducing underage girls. So basically

(01:24:06):
months later, Hitler comes in and is like, uh, you know,
somebody was talking about us, and I had to like
go dark because it would have hurt the success of
my political party. Yeah. If like we'd kept our thing up,
so that's his.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Excuse, the truth would have come out. Yeah, and oh
so it's like he knows it's not supposed to be
doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Yes, and this is not a lot of times when
you talk about people dating teenagers whatever in the past.
He was definitely more normal back then.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
Again, this was a political liability for a thirty seven
year old. It wouldn't have been weird if he'd been
twenty five and dating a sixteen year old, that would
have been pretty normal for Austria in nineteen twenty six. Over
twenty years, this is weird. Yeah, Yeah, what he's doing
is weird and he knows it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Yeah. So Mimi claims that she found out later that
the letters you know, sent into the Nazi Party office
were actually written by a woman who was close to
Hitler and jealous of his relationship with Mimi. It was
possibly this lady who was like his bodyguard slash chauffeur,
who was like in love with him. He may have
also fucked. We don't really know that much about that relationship.

(01:25:04):
There's a lot of rumored relationships that we don't have
confirmation of, but one thing that is confirmed is that
the Nazis were unbelievably catty bitches. There was tons of drops,
tons of blackmail within the Nazis. Oh yeah, gross, and
they were all fucking with each other.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Yeah, and they're all fucking messy. Just a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Messy bitches, messy messy bitches. Yeah, yeah, that's the Nazis.
So Mimi and Hitler drifted apart for a while. The
whole relationship was a huge deal for her, but it
seems to have been more of a bump on the
road for Hitler. During this time, he repeatedly flirted with
his best friend, Honstegele's wife, as well as Henrietta Hoffman,
the daughter of his photographer and fiance of Balder von Shirock,

(01:25:40):
one of his top Nazis. Hitler dated or at least
made moves on, Jenny Howe, one of his drivers, and
the bodyguard lady had talked about maybe the woman who
sent the letter. It's hard to tell how true all
the different rumors about women Hitler might have been with was,
But it seems like by the mid twenties he's famous
enough that like a lot of people are falling for
his charms. Yeah, yeah, largely for his fame. To Ian

(01:26:00):
Kershaw quote, None of his liaisons, it seems, had been
more than superficial. No deep feelings were ever stirred. Women
were for Hitler a sport, an adornment in a men's world,
whether in the men's home in Vienna, the regiment during
the war, the Munich barracks until his discharge, and his
regular gatherings of party cronies in Cafe Neumau or a
cafe Heck in the nineteen twenties. Hitler's environment had always
been overwhelmingly male. Very occasionally a woman would be admitted

(01:26:23):
into our intimate circle recalled Heinrik Kaufman, but she never
was allowed to become the center of it, and had
to remain seen but not heard. She could occasionally take
a small part in the conversation, but never was she
allowed to hold forth or to contradict Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
Oh, I love a silent wife.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Silent and dumb. That's the way Hitler likes him. A silent, sorry,
quiet woman who's barely alive. God Hitler. Now. Hitler's next
confirmed flame was with Gelly Raubel, his half niece. Oh, sick, sick,
here we go. You can't stop a Hitler male from
fucking his own niece. He cannot stay away from blood.

(01:27:01):
It's the thing. What a two generations, the guys fucking.
There's the same age when they start to So he
met her when she was fourteen years old. Her father
had died when she was young, and her mother worked
as a housekeeper. They were poor. Hitler did wait until
she was sixteen. Oh well, what a gentleman, What a gentleman.
And that's the age when Uncle Alf, as she called him,

(01:27:23):
asked her and her mom to move to Munich and
become his housekeepers. Now for them, it would have seemed
like a real upgrade, because he was a very powerful
man by this point. He set Gilly and Angela up
in an apartment, and while her mom cleaned house, Hitler
took his teenage niece out on the town. He found
out she wanted to be a singer and r Kelly
like started paying for music lessons and promising to make
her famous. Yeah, like it's all tracks, it's all tracks.

(01:27:47):
It's not just he was just one of these guys,
he was all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
Yeah, he's the prototype for I mean before him too,
but it's like he really is just greatest hits all around.
How many was he into?

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Jello? What's he was he druggon lady?

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Yes, you look super Innogella at any.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
Point, yeah, I mean credit where it's due. That might
be an area where Cosby innovated on Hitler. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, although, yeah,
there's some other crimes coming up hereself. Over the next
year or so, Hitler fell increasingly in love with his
teenage niece. This did not go over well with his
inner circle. Han Stangle hated Gelly, calling her an empty
headed slut with the coarse sort of bloom of a

(01:28:25):
servant girl, which is some real sexist rich guys.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Shit. Yeah, please blame the child that was brought here
by the adult man in power.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Yeah, please please please. Yeah. Also, if he'd known Hitler's
family history, he would have known servants were sort of
the family thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Yeah, that's kind of how it works out for them.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Weird that he and his dad both not only sleep
with their nieces but both bring them in as like
serving girls.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
How aware do you think Hitler was of that relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
I don't know, Okay, there's a lot of rumors that
he was to an extent and he was trying to
keep it from people.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Because I'm just wondering if that's like him trying to
like normalize how his parents got together in some way.
Maybe he even was thinking that consciously.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
I'm certain it wasn't conscious, but that may that may
have been a factor, yes, and being like wanting to
sort of be like, well, no, you know, if I'm
like the biggest man in Germany and this is what
I do, then it wasn't messed up how I grew up. Yeah, fine,
and I don't have to think about it that much.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Yeah, exactly. No. My mother, aunt.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
Wife, my mother aunt wife, cousin. Yeah, that's great. So
Putsy had to admit still that the infatuation his furre
had with this teenage girl was pretty significant. He said
that she quote had the effect of making him behave
like a man in love. He hovered at her elbow
in a very plausible imitation of adolescent infatuation, so Gilly
wound up having an affair with Hitler's longtime show for

(01:29:47):
Emil Maurice forgave her but fired Maurice Ye. When a
local Nazi party leader named munder Wind that Gelly was
distracting Hitler from politics, Hitler fired munder Yeah. For a while,
Gilly Rabble threatened to derail the coming of the Third Reich,
and tie Hitler started canceling plans for speeches and meetings
to take her on picnics. Now, Gelly's probably the single
most controversial piece of Hitler's backstory. Off the top of

(01:30:09):
my head, the only thing historians debate more vociferously about
Hitler is whether or not he was like an active
or passive participant in the Holocaust. Like, those are like
two of the things that are most questioned about this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
The relationship is, among other things, the origin of the
Hitler liked poop myth. So that's where we're going next.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Oh hell yeah, yeah, you know. It's just sometimes you
think you're just gonna have a Friday, and here it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Is, and here it is, here it is. It does
feel great. So in nineteen twenty nine, Hitler bought the
gigantic apartment that he'd first promised Mimi Reader, but he
was over her, so he moved his seventeen year old niece,
and Glly's mother was sent off to Burkedis Goden to
keep Hitler's holiday at home claim and to keep her
away from Hitler and her daughter. So Gelly and Hitler
lived in separate bedrooms but on the same floor. And
now our main sources for this particular story about the

(01:30:56):
relationship come from a journalist named Conrad Heyden and our
old pal Honstangle. They also come from Gregor Strasser, a
former Nazi who fell out with Hitler. So all these
stories are from very anti Hitler people who have reason
to exaggerate things, which is the way I bring that up.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
Yeah, so I just like that they've got a real
like I love Lucy's set up in their house.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's very much that, but with poop.
So Vanity Fair quotes all of these sources, and I'm
going to read their kind of recollection of events, starting
with Heiden quote, Hitler wrote the young girl a letter
couched in the most unmistakable terms. It was a letter
in which the uncle and lover gave himself completely away.
It expressed feelings which could be expected from a man
with masochistic copprofile inclinations, bordering on what Havelock Ellis calls undinism.

(01:31:38):
The letter probably would have been repulsive to Gelly if
she had received it, but she never did. Hitler left
the letter lying around, and it fell into the hands
of his landlady's son, a certain doctor Rudolph. The letter
was bound to debase Hitler and make him ridiculous in
the eyes of anyone who might see it. Hitler seems
to have feared that it was Rudolph's intention to make
it public. So co profile is obviously loving poop, and
udinism is loving to be urinated on. So that's that's

(01:32:01):
how this journalist sort of describes this mythical letter. Yeah,
Hitler almost sends Gelly, but it gets intercepted, and then
another Nazi is like threatening the blackmail Hitler with it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
I see again, that's an intense letter. How many rough
drafts you go do you go through?

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Before you were telling your niece you want to poop
in her? Yeah? Or be pooped in by her?

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
Yeah, I don't know, man, we'd have to ask John
McAfee that so putsi. Honpstangle told a pretty similar story
in his biography, but he claims that the pornographic content
was different. Rather than a letter about his desire to
be pooped in by Gelly, Honstangle claims that the thing
that got intercepted was Hitler's nude sketches of his niece.

(01:32:42):
He describes the drawings as depraved, intimate sketches of Gelly
rabble with every anatomical detail, which could have meant that
it was something we'd consider really weird to be on
the pale, or could have meant that he was just
drawing porn of a girl. He thought it was his girlfriend,
I mean s gross because she's his seventeen year old niece.
But it might not have been a poo thing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Yeah, it could just be like a nude photos or yeah,
new drawings.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
Now, the most direct story we have, or most direct
evidence we have of the Hitler liked poop myth, comes
from Otto Strasser. Now, Otto was a leading figure in
the Nazi Party for a while and then fell a
foul of the party. His brother, who was also a Nazi,
was murdered, and Otto became like a critic of the regime,
and he wrote about this in a nineteen forty book
that he published after he had fallen out with the party.

(01:33:26):
So again grain assault. Here otto Strasser claims that basically,
after a period of excitement, Gilly got bored of being
Hitler's girlfriend, since Hitler believed he had to present an
image of being available and married to Germany. Hitler's handler's
like kind of thought that hitler sex appeal was a
big part of Nazism's draw and if it was known
that he had a girlfriend, like women wouldn't vote for
him and then he wouldn't be able to win election,
which they may have been right about.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
There's something, I mean, there's something there, I guess, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
It's hard to say. This was like pretty soon after
women got the vote too, so like people were, I mean,
people were sexist for a lotteries of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
Got to vote for an available.

Speaker 1 (01:33:59):
Mass sexy Hitler and if she.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Sees my ballad, I'll get to be missus Hitler. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
missus Hitler.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
So basically Strausser claimed that, like Gelly was really bored
all the time, and it was like really frustrated and
depressed at not being able to go out with her boyfriend,
and finally Hitler like allowed him Strasser to take Gelly
out to a Marty Gral party because he was like, Okay,
I'll let you do something, but I can't go with
you because it'll look bad, So you go with my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
So. Strausser claims that during this party, they were sitting
down at a table and talking and she opened up
to him with a very emotional horror story. Quote from Strausser.
Hitler made her undress while he would lie out on
the floor. Then she would have to squat down over
his face where he could examine her at close range,
and this made him very excited. When the excitement reached
its peak, he demanded that she urinate on him, and

(01:34:45):
that gave him his sexual pleasure. Gilly said the whole
performance was extremely disgusting to her, and although it was
sexually stimulating, it gave her no gratification. So cool, Cool,
what a party, What a party?

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
The German party? Pties man? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Yeah, and again Strasser hated Hitler by that point and
may have just been trying to slander his name. Other
reports of Gelly and Hitler's relationship say that it was
about as normal as a sexual liaison between a niece
and her uncle could be. We don't know what they
got up to. What we do know is that in
nineteen thirty one, at the cusp of Hitler reaching power,
Mimi Reader came back into his life. Oh, this is

(01:35:21):
while he's living with Gelly.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
She's like a legal age at this time and not
even related to him.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
Yeah, she's like eighteen now wow, yeah, okay, So while
Hitler's living with and banging his niece, Mimi Reader comes
into town. She'd married a guy in the intervening years,
but dumped him, you know, a little bit in and
basically traveled to Munich for a Hitler booty call. So
this is her version of events as described by the
book Explaining Hitler. She quote calls Hitler's adjutant, Julia Shaub,

(01:35:49):
informed that Mimi is in town. Hitler tells Shaub bring
her over. Mimi places the episode that follows in the
summer of nineteen thirty one, when Hitler was living in
his big new apartment with Gilly Rabble. Now, Mimi claims
that during this visit, I let everything happen, So they
had sex. This is like one of the first confirmations
we have, and she doesn't give us a lot of
detail about this. We know that Hitler has a booty
call with Mimi in early summer or whatever nineteen thirty one,

(01:36:13):
and then not a whole long while later, maybe just
a couple of weeks, maybe a few days, Kelly Rabble
commits suicide. No yeahikes. Now. There are a number of
theories as to why. One says she was jealous that
Hitler had slept with Mimi, and being nineteen at the time,
took the most dramatic revenge she could imagine. Another theory
says she started an affair with a Jewish dance teacher
in Vienna and was about to leave Hitler, and so

(01:36:35):
he had her murdered. Some of the versions say that
he murdered her himself. Yet another variant is that she
wanted to leave for Vienna because she was just bored,
but Hilly refused to let her go, and she killed
herself in protest, because again, she was nineteen. Either way,
one detail is consistent across all these stories. Kelly Rabble
entered Hitler's room, found his six point five millimeter Mouser handgun,
and shot herself dead through the chest. Wow, which again

(01:36:57):
is part of why people think it might have been
a murder because she shot herself off.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
That's a hard shot to take.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
But it's also not uncommon for women who commit suicide
with guns to avoid shooting themselves in the head.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:37:07):
Yeah, wow, so huh, nobody knows. This is debated to
this day. There are people right now who are trying
to have her body exhumed in order to like to
and like think that they found out. Like it's a
big controversy and stuff. Still, we don't really know what happened. Yeah,
it was a massive scandal at the time. People thought
it was going to derail Hitler's political career, right on

(01:37:28):
the cusp of Rice into power. The Nazi Party immediately
responded with like basically claiming that she'd killed herself because
she was nervous over an upcoming music recital. Yeah, the
body was taken away courtesy of the Bavarian Minister of Justice,
who was a Nazi sympathizer. Her death was declared a
suicide after a quick inquest. It was all clearly shushed
up by the Nazis in the government, and like the

(01:37:49):
fact that law enforcement was fans with the Nazis. The
whole story is it's really hard to like grasp exactly
what happened here. There's certainly a good chance she was murdered,
but there's at least an equally good chance that she
was just driven to suicide by her relationship with Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Well, and she'd also been like so isolated at this point,
like your whole world is this guy, and it doesn't
let you leave anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
And it's like, yeah, I can see learning about him
screwing Mimi when she's living with him could have made
her commit suicide. I can see how she might not
have known that at all and just been fed up
by it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
Uh yeah, driving women to suicide, along with flirting via
whip was sort of Hitler's thing. Robert Waite, a psychologist,
wrote a psychoanalytical biography of Hitler titled The Psychopathic God. Now,
wait is like the first guy who got Langer's oss
report to classified, and he's definitely a member of the
Hitler was into weird shit sexually camp. So a lot
of his conclusions are really debatable, but he makes a

(01:38:42):
decent case to suggest that Hitler was doing something fucked
up to the girls he liked. Quote the idea that
Hitler had a sexual perversion particularly abhorrent to women is
further supported by a statistic. Of the seven women who
we can be reasonably sure had intimate relations with Hitler,
six committed suicide are seriously attempted. So damn, oh so
something something, something fucked up?

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
God damn. Yeah, he's up in some bad business.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Doesn't have to be kinky sex. Even more likely, maybe
that he's just really emotionally abusive being Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something about you know, he doesn't seem
like a supportive boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Does not seem like a supportive boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
No, no, no, no, this is a he's yeah, he's
weaving some bullshit in your ears.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
Suicide is the single biggest through line, rather than poop,
of Hitler's sex life.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
Ava Brown, who was Hitler's wife eventually, who Hitler met
in nineteen twenty nine while she was seventeen years old
and he was in his forties, attempted suicide in nineteen
thirty two and again in nineteen thirty five, and then
obviously committed suicide with him in nineteen forty five. Yeah,
there were two attempts before that point.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
Wow, while they were still together.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Yeah. Wow, well, well ish, we'll see we'll talk about that. Yeah.
Frau Inga Leh, another possible Hitler lover, successfully committed suicide.
So did Renat Muller and Susie Liptauer. We don't know
a lot about most of these relationships. Gelly, Mimi, and
Eva are the only women we get a lot of
detail about, and Mimi is the only lover who survived
fucking Hitler long enough to give a detailed interview. It

(01:40:08):
turns out that being in love with the leader of
the German Reich was even more dangerous than fighting in Stalingrad.
So we're gonna talk about why that may have been
and about some of the things that we do know
about his sex life from some of these women the
other details. But first is an ad transition.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
Yeah, let's do some ads.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Let's do some ads. Don't think about Hitler's sweaty balls. Well,
you think about these products. Damn it, that's a really
bad ad pivot. I'm glad Sophie's not here. She's gonna
be really pissed at that products.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
We're back, all right, Okay, what a nice break from
thinking about his shitty sweaty balls.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
He shitty sweaty balls or ball or ball who knows
who knows well? As doctor said, not but okay, I
don't know. It's a good song. So one of the
women who committed suicide and is believed to have been
a lover of Hitler was a Renaatee Muller. She was
an actress, and she got to tell a little bit
of her story before leaping out of a window and
falling to her death in nineteen thirty seven. Damn yeah,

(01:41:16):
so I'll quote Vanity Fair. These stories came from the
guy who was her director, so we don't have heard
directly being quoted on this. A guy who worked with
her later told the OSS about like what had gone
down between them? Quote her director. One A. Zeisler later
told the OSS that she had confided in him shortly
after spending a night with Hitler in the Reich's Chancellery,
how distress she was that the nature of the sexual

(01:41:38):
practices Hitler demanded of her, of which, to her mortification,
she complied. She claimed Hitler fell on the floor and
begged her to kick him, condemned himself as unworthy, and
just groveled in an agonizing manner. The scene became intolerable
to her, and finally she acceded to his wishes. As
she continued to kick him, he became more and more excited.
So that's a really different one. That's like Hitler liked

(01:41:58):
being and that's to me more belie than some of
the like a lot of powerful men they want to
be talking about sex workers like that's what these guys
go in for.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, like they want to be they want
to be the sub.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
I don't have any trouble imagining Hitler wanting a woman
to just kick him a bunch. No, he like masturbates
on the floor. That's yeah, Yeah, that's that kind of
sounds like the Hitler we know. Yeah, No, that's that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
That definitely sounds way more because it's like there's a
lot of self hate going on, so it's like being
able to actually like exercise that party yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
Yeah, that seems for sure. Yeah, I can see how
that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:42:30):
Yeah, and that also just makes a lot of sense
with like it would be very difficult to reconcile those
two things if you were a woman that like knew
that versus the image of the world that yeah Hitler,
that you knew, So that would be. I mean, I
can see how that would help with the suicide, or.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
It's it's there's also a lot of people who suspect
that she did not commit suicide, that she was murdered
because she knew about Hitler's sexual preferences, because she was
kind of you know, dropped out a window in nineteen
five thirty seven, might have been thrown. Yeah, we'll never know.
This whole state was controlled by the Nazis by that point,
so you're not getting a good in quest or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
Well, it's like, how many of these women, Like, was
it actually suicide versus murder?

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
Well, that's that every nobody knows. With Gelly either, Like,
it's possible they were all murdered and none of them
killed themselves. A man with Hitler, I don't have trouble believing,
like Eva Brown definitely tried to kill herself beforehand. So
I also I suspect it's a mix. I suspect one
or two of these women were murdered. Yeah, some of
them committed suicide. Whatever the case, being with Hitler is
not great for her long term SERVI what good again?

(01:43:32):
Mimi Readers the only one we get along, which you know,
she's kind of Hitler is the romance character in her
recollection of things, but like she lived through it. Yeah,
if that seems to be pretty hard, Yeah, damn really
dodged a bullet there. Bullet Eva Brown did not dodge.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
I think people who focus too much on the possibility
of sexual deviance and Hitler kind of might have some
kind of bad intentions under the surface. I feel like
focusing on that on like the weird sex aspect of things, yeah,
is a way to make him seem less scary. Like
calling him a sexual serial killer. Oh h actually makes
him less scary because if Hitler's like a serial killer

(01:44:12):
doing all of these things because he's just Jeffrey Dahmer
in charge of a nation, or if he'n some poop
fiending sex monster, then he's not a normal human being
like all of us.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Yeah, exactly. Well, And it's also like that's also demonizing
those sexual practices where it's like, you know, your king's
to your kinks as long as they're consensual, there's something
the matter with them.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Whether or not Hitler was poopin in people's mouths, A
lot of people who didn't become Hitler were pooping in
each other's mouth. Yes, and it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:35):
Yeah. Now, Martin Amos, best selling English author, is very
much a proponent of the weird sex view of Hitler.
He was behind one of these recent waves of Hitler
kink's stories, one that hit back in twenty fourteen because
during a speech he started making claims that he believed.
He basically claimed that this was a typical sexual encounter
in the life of Adolf Hitler. Quote, he would fortify

(01:44:56):
his underpants with clean serviettes and napkins, and then he
would go into some sort of excitation with Ava Brown,
staying at a safe distance. So Amos believes that, and
I'm going to quote from an article about him. There
are three schools of thought when it comes to Hitler's sexuality.
One is normality, which Amos says that he can be
immediately thrown out because it is impossible to see Hitler
as a considerate and energetic lover. The next one is

(01:45:17):
a sexuality, and the third ist perversion. Now, this belief
is in line with what spurned Nazis like han Stangle
and Strasser claim, and is also in line with the
Languer report, but very much out of line with the
recollections of Mimi Reader, who probably did fuck him, and
says that he was pretty normal outside, like he was
a weird guy, but like in terms of the way
he fucked nothing that crazy. Yeah, yeah, Hitler Sixter Paula

(01:45:39):
does believe Mimi Reader was like the love of Hitler's life,
and a lot of other people will say that Gelly
was the love of his life. It's impossible to know.
Maybe he never cared that much about any of them.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
I don't know if he's actually capable of love.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
That's a great question. In one of the reasons that,
like Herman Gerring is one of the people who's like
he was different after Gelly, Like a lot of people
who wound up in trial after World War Two were
the biggest proponent of the Hitler totally changed after his
niece killed herself. And there's some suspicion among historians that like, well,
you're just trying to like make it seem make yourself

(01:46:09):
seem less complicit, and that like, no, when I got
involved with this guy, he was a normal dude and
then he went crazy, and I, you know it wasn't
I I did, you know? It was out of my hands.

Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
Also, what a way to blame it on the woman.
I mean, the the somersaults that people will pull to
blame everything on a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:46:30):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
And it comes down to like the ultimate example of
that is not to throw a shade on Simon Wisenthal
because he's a hero, but like the Hitler got syphilis
from a Jewish prostitute, it's like both blame it on
a Jewish person and on a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
There we go, yeah, oh cool, that just a what
a neat little bottle bow. We wrapped that up in
He couldn't help it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
Yeah. So this like the attitude that Hitler was just
like sort of irredeemably weird and couldn't possibly have attracted
a woman naturally, there was always strange. It's not only
out of line with what, like Mimi Reader reported, it's
out of line with what his friends who didn't go
on trial for war crimes reported from this stage of
his life. I found an interview in Time with a
Carl Wilhelm Kraus, who worked as Hitler's valet for five

(01:47:13):
years from thirty four to thirty nine. They were like
friendly and here's what Kraus reported. Quote. What I can
state here is that Hitler certainly did not hate women.
Proof of this are the many actresses who were invited
along during the early years to afternoon and evening performances.
Often during our travels, he would suddenly be totally enchanted, exclaiming,
My God, isn't that a beautiful girl? He then turned around,

(01:47:34):
making me, who was behind him, moved to the side
so that he had an unrestricted view behind him and
could follow the lady with his gaze. If in any
given place an exceptionally beautiful woman would catch his eye,
Bruckner more often than not had to find out her address.
After that, the lady was invited for coffee, either to
Munich Berlin or the ober Saltzburg, just so Hitler could
have a chat with her. That sounds like normal famous
guy famous. That sounds like fucking any rich famous guy

(01:47:56):
in la seeing a girl who thinks he's cute and
having someone from his entourage go down there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's classic.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
Sounds like normal famous dude behavior. Ye. John Tolan talked
to Emil Maurice, Hitler's long time chauffeur, and uh, this
is the guy who made love to Gelly and then
got fired. But he and Hitler were close for a
long time, and despite being exiled by Hitler for fucking
his niece, Emil Maurice gave a pretty reasonable appraisal of
his old boss's sex life, quote, we chased girls together

(01:48:22):
and I used to follow him like a shadow. The
two would spend time at the art academy and an
artist's studios, admiring models posing in the nude. Calling himself
heir Wolf, Hitler would occasionally pass an evening with Maurice
roaming the night spots and streets for girls. Since the
latter was attractive to women, he would act as a
go between every so often. According to Maurice, Hitler would
entertain one of these conquests by proxy in his little room.
He always offered flowers, even when he was penniless, and

(01:48:44):
we used to go out and admire the ballet dancers.
Sounds again normal, No, that's yeah, it's all as his
hot friend wingman.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
For him, Like, yeah, that's all standard.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Yeah again, these are like that, and this is a
guy you'd expect. Emil Maurice would have bad shit to
say about Hitler, but like, there's nothing about that. I
don't believe that's sounds like a million guys.

Speaker 2 (01:49:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's nothing. Ultimately, there's nothing special about
Hitler whatsoever. Like it's like there's.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
That's the conclusion you're drawn to. Now. The last destination
on our tour to Hitler's love life is, of course,
his relationship with Eva Brown or Braun. Eva was, as
I stated, seventeen when they met. She had been educated
in a convent like Mimi Reader and worked at Heinrich Hoffman,
his photographer's shop. You know, she was working there when
Hitler met her in nineteen twenty nine. Now, this is

(01:49:29):
during the same year that Gelly and Hitler were supposedly
in the midst of the greatest romance of his life.
So they were living together in a relationship at this
point when he meets and invites Eva Brown out to
the opera, he probably started fucking her on the side
while he was still with his niece, and then at
one point fooling around with Mimi. So there's a point
in time when Hitler's like fooling around with three ladies,
one of whom lives with him. Yeah, and not telling
any of them about this.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
I mean that's also standard standard rich guy. Yeah, that's
standard rich Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:49:54):
None of this is weird.

Speaker 2 (01:49:55):
Yeah yeah, you're in the like you're you're in the
power that you've craved for so long, so you're going to.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
Like, you know, fuck a bunch of ladies.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
And like the the Eva Brown's two suicide attempts, one
of them coincides with like when Mimi would have come over,
and when like Gelly would have killed herself, and one
of them coincides with another potential person that we think
Hitler might have been fucking around with. So it's very
possible that Eva Brown's early suicide attempts in thirty two
and thirty five were because she was a teenager hooking
up in an angry man in his forties who played

(01:50:22):
mind games with her and fucked around on the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Sly Yeah no, I mean not all about that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
Tracks tracks so much better than Sexual serial Killer. Yeah
yeah yeah. Now, Eva Brown makes is someone who I'd
never really had made sense to me as a historical
character before, But she makes so much sense if you
think of her as a sensitive, artistic young woman dating
a really really abusive dude that she's in love with.

(01:50:48):
Eric Kempa, another Hitler chauffeur, called her the unhappiest woman
in Germany. I really like Eva Brown as portrayed by
the offer Jane Tyne. Now. Jane is a romance writer,
mostly romantic historic fiction from what I can tell, but
she's also written some serious historic essays, and the one
of hers that I read was pretty good. I like
the way she presents Eva because, as a general rule,

(01:51:08):
brilliant as they are, most of the great Hitler biographers
are male and kind at getting into Ava Brown's head
even a little bit. So I'm going to read a
quote from Jane kind of describing Ava Brown a little
differently than I'd heard her describe before. Quote from Eva's letters.
We learned that her parents disapproved and that Hitler would
frequently ignore her in public, merely passing her an envelope
of money, until at the end of the evening, when

(01:51:30):
she was finally allotted a room in the Berlin Chancellery.
She was forced to use a back entrance in case
anyone saw her. Hitler and his henchmen tried their hardest
to keep Ava out of the spotlight and forbade any
picture of her to be published, because they were keen
to project the idea that he was married to Germany,
yet Ava herself ensured the opposite for posterity. She was
an early adopter of Senafilm and made endless home movies. Today,

(01:51:50):
she would have been constantly on Facebook, instagramming her meals
and taking selfies at the Berghoff. One of her more
astonishing ambitions was to star one day in a biopic
of her life with the man he always called Wolf.
So yeah, she's yeah, sounds like a pretty normal teenager, Yeah,
dating a famous guy.

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
I also like what Jane has to say about the
Hitler is weird at sex myths because I think what
she says rings true with an awful lot of the
other research I've read quote it is impossible to peer
behind the bedroom door. But suggestions that Hitler was sexually
avoid because of his obsession with hygiene is contradicted by
observers of the time, who suggest that Hitler and Ava
did share a bed as a couple. They had interconnecting

(01:52:28):
bedrooms at the Berghoff, and Hitler's ballet heinz Ling attests
that they would go to bed together, while Hitler's maid
Pauline Kohler wrote that Hitler is not strongly sexed Ava
Brown's correspondence reveals nothing unusual, certainly not on the lines
of fully clothed sex, except that once war had broken out,
Hitler was unable to get interested. She used to show
her friends a nineteen thirty eight photograph of Neville Chamberlain

(01:52:49):
on a sofa in Hitler's Munich flat, saying, if only
he knew what goings on that sofa has seen like
we fucked on the sofa, and then the Prime Minister
of England said on that ha ha, like a normal teenager.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
Yeah, like yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53:05):
So if you're still on the fence, if you're still
on team Hitler was a kind of demonic sexual force
rather than just a gross shitty dude who wound up
in power through cunning and luck and the cowardice of
arrogant men. Well, I'd like to read one more Hitler story, Okay,
Mimi Reader came back to Hitler after their nineteen thirty
one liaison. This was in nineteen thirty four, when Hitler
was in power. Gilly had been dead for three years,
her room had been turned into a shrine, and Hitler

(01:53:27):
was unofficially with Ava Brown. Now Ava doesn't live with
him at this point, because of course he's got to
appear married to Germany. That old is that old ball
and Germany. This gave der Feury the ability to invite
Mimi in when she knocked on his door. I'm going
to quote from explaining Hitler's write up of Mimi's recollections. Quote,
once again, the relationship came to life. Once again. He

(01:53:50):
asked her to stay with him as his lover. She
insists she will not be part of an illicit relationship.
She wanted to be married and to have children. Suddenly
Hitler had a fit of rage. She shouted, why do
you women only think of how having children? He kept shouting.
It was around three am that he could not take
care of a woman. He shouted that he had a
big mission to fulfill. They argued for two more hours
than they departed, never to see each other again.

Speaker 2 (01:54:11):
Whoo, yeah, dodged several bullets, Mimi.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
You really did. And yeah, it's also.

Speaker 2 (01:54:19):
So crazy because it's like, Okay, you're going after women
that are raised in convents, motherfucker, Like the only purpose
for sex in the Catholic Church is procreation. Yeah, and
then you're mad at them, like you're taught all the
same shit.

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
Oh god, Yeah, I think what like maybe Hitler was
in the poop and pee and maybe he liked sex
with clothes on. Maybe not. At the end of the day,
the overwhelming picture I'm left with of Hitler is that
he was the same Like every woman has dated a
shitty guy. Oh, just like Hitler. They just didn't wind

(01:54:54):
up in charge of the country.

Speaker 2 (01:54:55):
Yeah, exactly. He's like a selfish, fucking idiot dude that
needs to go to therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
He's selfish. He's famous, and he's gonna take as much
advantage of that as he can.

Speaker 2 (01:55:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:05):
He's a habitual liar because he's fucking Hitler. Yeah, and
he's emotionally abusive and he screams when he doesn't get
his way. Yeah, Like yeah, he's a gaslighting piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
Yeah, yeah, he's a Yeah, Hitler turns out piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
Hitler turns out piece of shit, but not like, of
course he's a bad person, but he's not. Like what's
scarier to me about this is that, like there's nothing
special about him.

Speaker 2 (01:55:33):
Yeah, he's just classic piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
It's just a normal piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
Yeah, it's nothing out of the ordinary.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
And that means like the good thing that means is
that like we we as human beings, will never deal
with supernatural evil settling down upon the world and forcing
a nightmare regime on us. Yeah, but it also means
that there's millions of guys like this walking around, who
if they ever got into power. Yeah, this is that
kind of potential.

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Oh exactly, this is the this is the blueprint for
those kind of guys.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's why when you look at the
fucking evolution of in cell culture on the Internet, they're
really in the Nazis, yeah they and they're really into
Isis too. They love them both. No, yeah, they love
the murder and the hatred and like the ability to
do violence on like a world you feel is wrong
to you. And yeah, they all have issues with women,
and none of them fuck yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (01:56:22):
None of them like ask why a woman might not
be into them immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
They all have that reaction when like a buddy's like,
maybe just learn to dance or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:56:32):
You learn to dance to dance.

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
That's the fucking hitler. I want people to like think
about when they imagine what kind of man could do
the things he did, The kind of guy whose friend
is like, well, maybe learn to dance and that girl
who likes dancing will be interested in you. And he
just starts screaming, Yeah, like there's if I could improve.

Speaker 2 (01:56:50):
Yeah exactly, I'm already a perfect being.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
I am a perfect being me fourteen year old Horny
Hitler is Oh god, yeah no, that's Hitler. Yeah, I mean,
fucking Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
He's the worst. I mean, but he's not, is.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
The thing exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
Yeah, he's not. He's like he's perfectly average.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
Yeah, he's He's a perfectly average, shitty person who wound
up in a position of power and did the kind
of things that like, comparing him to a serial killer
is wrong. Comparing him to one of these in cel
kids who goes on a mass shooting rampage or drives
a van into a sorority house or whatever to kill.
That's who to compare him to.

Speaker 2 (01:57:28):
Yeah, that's much more accurate.

Speaker 1 (01:57:29):
Yeah, for sure. And he I think that that is
one way to look at sort of the Holocaust, is
that like it was a reaction of like anger at
not winning this war and wanting to do as much
damage as you could. And there's like an attitude of
that about like the destruction of Berlin, that like the
reason he didn't pull out of Berlin, or the reason
he didn't surrender and just shoot himself that way and

(01:57:49):
spare the city and people is he was like, no,
if we're going to lose, all of us are going
to die.

Speaker 2 (01:57:53):
Yeah, fuck Germany, taken everybody with me. You didn't play hard.

Speaker 1 (01:57:56):
Enough for me exactly. Like that was literally like some
of the shit he was saying is that, like, if
Germany doesn't win, we deserve to be destroyed. Like he's
just a shitty, angry, little prick with a temper who
you know if if I mean fuck it man like
to get really dark on you. Maybe in a society
where young men like that go on mass shooting sprees,
they're less likely to become hitler. Like I don't know

(01:58:18):
if that's like good or whatever, but like doesn't have
that option and just becomes hitler. Like we're in dark
territory here. But I do think he's that kind of guy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
Well, and it's also like it's being raised to think
that you were special and then having the having that lie. Yeah,
because nobody's special.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
Nobody's special. There's a lot of people out there hndler.

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
Well, and like that's That's the big thing about some
of these in cel guys is like they're raised to
think that they are like the princes of their own
little kingdom.

Speaker 1 (01:58:47):
Lot of Mama's boys, a lot of Mama's boy Bruce
V that pick up artists guy living in his mom's
basement talking about how the Jews are behind everything, like
it just keeps happening.

Speaker 2 (01:58:58):
Well, and then they're mad at they desperately need a woman,
but they're mad at a woman because they think a
woman sees them as weak, because they need them to
feel special.

Speaker 1 (01:59:07):
Yeah, the idea that like a relationship would have given
take and that you both have things to teach each other. Yeah,
Like he doesn't want to be taught anything.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
No, no, no, no, no, he just wants pure allegiance.

Speaker 1 (01:59:17):
Yeah, which is why he goes after sixteen year olds. Yeah,
probably why his dad went after sixteen year olds. Absolutely repeatedly.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
Yeah, it's a power trip.

Speaker 1 (01:59:24):
It's a power trip.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
Yeah, you don't want an equal of any.

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
Kind, no fucking ca that's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
Yeah uh yeah yeah no, just a real piece shit.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
So if you've ever wondered what happens if you give
one of those in cells on Reddit the most powerful
military force in continental Europe. It was World War Two. Yeah,
that's what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
Yeah, no, exactly, they'll just keep pushing.

Speaker 1 (01:59:51):
Boy Hattie Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
Yeah, so teach your sons to dance.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
Teach your sons to dance. And that's the only thing
we've learned today. Yes, teach your sons to dance.

Speaker 2 (02:00:02):
You can dance if you want to.

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
Yeah. Make make sure if you vote for someone, they
don't date teenagers at the very least, at the very least,
at the very least.

Speaker 2 (02:00:12):
I'm not dating teenagers.

Speaker 1 (02:00:13):
Because that's how you get Hitler's. Yeah, that's how you
get Hitler's. Don't let them fuck their niece.

Speaker 2 (02:00:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:19):
Can you make eye contact with a woman of your
age without being filled with rage?

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
Yeah? Yeah? Are you Are you capable of, like having
a conversation with a woman without screaming?

Speaker 2 (02:00:32):
Like, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:00:34):
So it's also are you capable of like seeing your
dog misbehave without beating it and choking it and scaring
a teenager?

Speaker 2 (02:00:40):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (02:00:40):
Pitler, God just.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Kind of Metho's his German shepherd didn't finish the job early.

Speaker 1 (02:00:48):
Yeah, No, I mean it was a goat that supposedly
bit off his dick.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
I wish that goat just.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
Hitler.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
Yeah, exactly chew that tin can up.

Speaker 1 (02:00:58):
How different the world would be if just had like
a weird did you know that back in like the
nineteen oh nine a goat ate a boy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:07):
What if like in the future, the only animals that
can time travel or goats. So we did try to
kill Hitler, Yeah, but he only bit his dick.

Speaker 1 (02:01:14):
The goat only just just got part of his dick.

Speaker 2 (02:01:16):
It was, Yeah, and we actually just really made it
worse than it was in the first place.

Speaker 1 (02:01:20):
Yeah, it would have been fine. Otherwise he would have
just went on to become a i don't know, like
a like a sub and a dungeon.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
I feel like that's the thing Hitler might have been
happy with. Yeah, I've really gotten in touch with his demons.

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
Yeah, for sure. He just wanted to be whipped. That's
why he carried a whip with him everywhere.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
Yeah. Yeah, somebody whipped me. Admitting that takes some courage
though it does.

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
It does, I mean it still does in twenty nineteen.
You know, like it's the more open people can be
about the kings and stuff like that, and the more
open sexually. The world can be more accepting than I
think the less.

Speaker 1 (02:01:55):
That's why I say this every day. I say it
a lot to my roommates, to police officers during traffic stops.
More dominatrixes. Yeah, the only thing that will protect us
from more Hitler's truly absolutely, that's I think the note.
We're gonna end on, Brandy, We're gonna pluggables.

Speaker 2 (02:02:11):
Yeah. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at
brand Dazzle. My website is Brandyposey dot com Brandy with
an Ie Posey with Ey. I have an album available
wherever you listen to albums. It's called Opinion Cave. It's
very funny. Feel free to buy it. And then I
have a podcast called Lady to Lady to Me Barbara
Gray and Test Barker, and then we have a fourth

(02:02:32):
guest on every week. Past guests have included people like
Karen co Gariff or French Stewart or Margaret Show. It's
really really fun podcast. And then I have a monthly
show here in Los Angeles on the second Saturday every
month called Picture This. And that's a show that I've
hosted for six years where we pair up comedians with animators.
Well ive animate your jokes behind you during your set.

(02:02:53):
It's like you riffing within your own bits. And we
get like really insane artists to come do the show
all the time. Look, we've had Pendleton Ward from Advent
Your Time, Craig Bartlett, the creator of Hey Arnold has
been on recently, and then we have people from amazing
shows like Budgick, Horsemen and Big Mouth and mister Pickles,
and it's it's a real, real great fun time. That's
the second Saturday. And that's a music.

Speaker 1 (02:03:15):
It's my alarm that's set at four point thirty for
no good reason. Oh boy, but yeah, those are my plugs.

Speaker 2 (02:03:22):
Come see me and all the shit. Guys.

Speaker 1 (02:03:24):
Well, if you if you currently know a young man
who you're worried is going down a hitlerypath, yeah, tune
him into those shows. Maybe you open up his mind
a little bit. Listen to some progressive comedy, get him.

Speaker 2 (02:03:34):
Some dance lessons to listen to my podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
Have a couple of men. I me, hear a couple
of men laugh at themselves and you know, realize that
it's okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:03:45):
Yeah, Like get him out there, just get him a hug.

Speaker 1 (02:03:49):
Or hire a goat to bite his dick off. Yeah.
Either way, you know it's up to you to fight
the Hitler's in your life. We all encounter a couple
of hitlers out there.

Speaker 2 (02:03:56):
Hey, time traveling goats listening them out there and finish
the jack. Next time, I.

Speaker 1 (02:04:00):
Finish the job and retroactively render this episode's pointless. I
am Robert Evans. You can find us online at behind
Themastards dot com. You can find me on Twitter at
I write Okay. The book called A Brief History of
Vice where I do drugs, which if Hitler had done
more of when he was young and that when he
was old, he might have also come to some better
conclusions about because ego, I'm the podcast with the ad Bastard.

(02:04:25):
Spot on Twitter and Instagram. Buy a T shirt Behind
the Bastards tea public fuck Hitler, I Love forty percent
of you.

Speaker 2 (02:04:32):
Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia
dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.