Part One: Jeffrey Epstein: Pimp to the Powerful

In Episode 52, Robert is joined by Daniel O’Brien to discuss the story of pimp to the stars, Jeffrey Epstein. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Hey, everybody, I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards,
the podcast where we tell you everything you don't know
about the very worst people in all of history. And today,
as a guest on my show, I have one of
the best people in comedy history, Daniel O'Brien, my once
and perhaps future boss guy who I was the intern

(00:21):
for and uh mentor all those things. Daniel. Yeah, that's
a that's quite an intro. Thank you for for all
of that. I will uh just so there are no
dangling cliffhangers or anything like that once in future. I
don't think I'm never gonna be a boss again for
the rest of my life. Having been a boss and
having now like not be a boss anymore, it's better

(00:43):
this way. It's way better not being a boss. It's
pretty great. I mean, I'm I'm I'm talking about more.
When the Civil War gets sparked off and you wind
up leading a leading a crude militia in Hell's kitchen,
uh to fight for the liberation of the East coast
from the tyrannical Midwest, that's a fair I think. Whenever
a revolution happens, it seems likely that I'll find myself
somewhere in middle management feels right. Well, Dan, speaking of

(01:10):
middle management, that's not what we're talking about today. But
we are talking about a really famous child molester. I
knew I was going to have my friend and uh
and former colleague, expert on many different presidents, author of
the book How to Fight Presidents, so many exciting people
we could have talked about, and I picked Jeffrey Epstein, Okay,

(01:32):
soon to be president, soon to be president, very closely
tied to two presidents at least. Yeah, So are you
are you? You're ready? You're ready for this, Dan, I'm ready.
I got a slight heads up on who the top,
who the person was, and it was one of those
names that I knew very little about, just enough to
know that they were bad, and UH deliberately shows not

(01:56):
to do any research on it so I could be
surprised and horrified and and hopefully ask you questions that
your dumbest listeners will have. That is what I what
I want from my guests is for them to be
surprised and horrified. So I'm gonna I'm gonna get into
this story because well, I didn't know anything about this
guy either other than, like you know, you hear the
odd story here and there about him. You know he's

(02:17):
a creep. He's way more than just a creep. So
let's let's strap in and and tell this tale. On
December four, two sixteen, Edgar Madison Welch, a year old
man from Madison, North Carolina, walked into Washington, d C's
Comment Ping Pong Pizza parlor with an a R fifteen.
He fired three shots into the restaurant as part of

(02:37):
a poorly conceived scheme too. In his own words, self
investigate the Pizza Gate conspiracy theory. That conspiracy theory, which
had its origins in the two thus sixteen election, states
that the Clintons and their longtime supporter John Podesta were
at the center of a giant child rape and sex
slave ring. Comment Ping Pong was believed to be a
nexus point of this international child slave trade. The theories

(02:57):
evolved and merged with other conspiracy theories and is now
part of the orbit of the Q and on conspiracy theory.
There's a general sense among many in the far right
that global elites are part of a gigantic, satanic, pedophilic conspiracy.
They are wrong about that, but they aren't a hundred
percent wrong about the idea that an alliance of powerful
people are having sex with underaged individuals, because that totally happened.

(03:18):
And today we're going to talk about the man who's
at the nexus of a real, honest to god, global
child molesting conspiracy. He has nothing to do with comment
Ping Pong or John Podesta, and his victims were teenagers
and not the little kids that the Peto Gate conspiracy
theories tend to focus on. But yeah, today we're talking
about Jeff Epstein. So okay, that is that's that's a

(03:38):
journey of an introduction the Yeah, I yeah, this. I
found a Q and on flyer on my run today
this before coming in this morning. So I've I've had
this conspiracy theory about child molesting global elites on the brain. Sure,
I mean, that's that's bound to Happencember four? Good day.
What else happened out December four? Is that are up question? Yes? You,

(04:01):
me and of our closest friends and co workers. Oh
my god, I mean not as bad as the shooting
the pizza place. Yeah, thing, but but m fourth, no
one died in that shooting, So I'm gonna say is bad. Okay,
we all lost healthcare. It's good to laugh now. It's

(04:27):
good to laugh now. I had forgotten the date because
of all of the drinking. So Jeffrey Edward Epstein was
born on January three in Brooklyn, New York. Brook then, Yeah,
not the proudest son of Brooklyn Um. His wiki currently

(04:48):
describes him as an American financier, science and research, philanthropist,
and registered sex offender. His I have some notes on
how Wikipedia orders things sex offender in the middle or first,
I wanted first? I think I wanted first. I think
you start with research, philanthropist, sex offender, financier, science, philanthropist. Yeah,

(05:10):
that's that's my order. I don't want them trying to
like pre make me like him, you know, like the
sex metter thing. People are gonna get there. They're not
gonna like that. So how can we soften this blow
before they get there? Oh? Philanthropist that's a broadly good word, right,
philanthropist and rapist. So Epstein was raised in Coney Island.

(05:32):
The Guardian describes him coming up in a tough Brooklyn neighborhood.
I'm not sure if that's how you described Coney Island now,
but that's that's how it was at the time. Apparently,
according to a Vanity Fair article I read, he and
his family were kind of solidly middle class. His father
worked for the city's parks department. His parents saw education
as the way out for Jeffrey and his brother. They
put him in piano classes at age five. He was

(05:54):
a bright student, graduating from Brooklyn's Lafayette High School with
fantastic grades and mathematics and science. From nineteen sixty nine
to nineteen seventy one, Cohen started taking college courses at
Cooper Union, focusing mostly on physics. He left for n
y u. S. Corn Institute after that and took classes
on the mathematical physiology of the heart. Epstein was clearly
smart and very interested in a variety of obscure scientific

(06:15):
and mathematical disciplines. He never quite found a subject he
could focus on for more than a year or two
at a time, though, and he left Corn Institute without
getting a degree. So so far I'm on board, So
so far, pretty good, Although I questioned his parents because
I agree that on education being the way out of
poverty and into a better life, or one of the ways,
but still question, like you're on that track. Education is

(06:36):
gonna save our son. Let's also throwing in piano lessons
like that, Like how many famous rich piano players are there?
Still just the three? It's still just Elton, John and
two guys I can't name, Yeah, Billy Joel and Marshall.
Elli's character from Greenbook is that I feel bad that
I forgot Billy Joel. You should feel ironically loved Billy Joel. No,

(06:59):
I mean so do I Man, it's a good night.
Saigon is a great aass song. You should get him
as a guest on this show. I would love to
have Billy Joel as a guest on He's Antifa. Now,
if you didn't hear the interview, is that really? Yeah?
He did an interview with Vice after the Charlottesville march
where he was like, I don't understand why more people
aren't hitting Nazis. Oh yeah Joel, Yeah, he's great. Okay,

(07:28):
so uh. In his early twenties, Epstein got a job
teaching physics at the Dalton School, a Manhattan private school.
He taught physics and math to the children of the
rich and powerful. A number of fawning articles from before
Epstein's Crimes Republic Knowledge gave glowing accounts of his mysterious backstory.
One of those fawning articles was published by New York
Magazine in two thousand two. It's title, The International money

(07:50):
Man of Mystery gets across how Epstein was generally viewed.
Here's how it described his transition from high school teacher
to finance here. By most accounts, he was something of
a Robin Williams and Dead Poet society type figure, wowing
his high school classes with passionate mathematical riffs. So impressed
was one Wall Street father of a student that he
said to Epstein point blank, what are you doing teaching

(08:10):
math at Dalton? You should be working on Wall Street.
Why don't you give my friend A. S. Greenberg a call? So?
What what year do you say? This was? This is, uh,
it's kind of unclear, but it's like nineteen seventy seventy
six when this has happened. Yeah. So Ace Greenberg was
a senior partner at bear Stearns who you may remember
from the whole that time the economy collapsed. Yeah, that

(08:32):
they were. They were pretty big part of that. Uh. Now,
Greenberg was a legendary trader in his own right and
has long made it clear that the basically famous for
picking out what he described as like hungry and brilliant guys. Um.
So he liked finding like poor smart people and then
giving them jobs in trading because he figured that they
do better than like rich kids, which is probably a

(08:53):
good strategy, and it worked out for Epstein Uh. In
nineteen seventy six, he joined the firm UH. He started
off as a junior assist into the floor trader at
the American Stock Exchange, and according to most accounts, his
ascent was rapid. UH. Newark Magazine quoted former bear Sterns
CEO Jimmy Caine as saying of Epstein, he was not
your conventional broker, saying by IBM or Sell Xerox. Given

(09:15):
his mathematical background, we put him in our special products division,
where he would advise our wealthier clients on the tax
implications of their portfolios. He would recommend certain tax advantageous transactions.
He's a very smart guy and has become a very
important client for the firm as well. So most coverage
of Epstein's rise to power and wealth are vague about
his time at bear Sterns. They just say he rose
quickly and then left suddenly. A couple of years later

(09:36):
to found his own company now. Vanity Fair published a
much better article on Epstein in two thousand three, which
did a more thorough job of investigating his backstory. According
to that reporting, his rise at bear Sterns was literally
the opposite of mediorc. It looks like Epstein was forced
out of the company as part of an insider trading
scandal in March of nineteen eighty one. Several Italian and

(09:58):
Swiss investors were found guilty in the s you see
questioned Epstein over the matter. It's kind of unclear exactly
how he's involved, but he resigned one day after the
violation occurred. So yeah, that's that's the real story of
his time in bear Stearns. Um. That's good. I like
when crimes sort of line up with my level of
understanding them, where everyone's like, we're not exactly we can't
figure out what kind of crime you did, but it's

(10:20):
bad and you have to go away now. Yeah, he
got certainly you're guilty of something with money, Get out
of here. You did something you shouldn't have. He had
to pay a fine, and it's really unclear to me
exactly what he did. It's one of those things where
I've read like three explanations of it and I'm like, okay,
finance crime, lame finance crime, Okay, got it? Uh now.

(10:42):
For years, up until about two thousand five, the reporting
on Epstein mostly focused on his utter brilliance as a financier.
That Vanity Fair article was titled the Talented Mr. Epstein.
The introduction to the New York Magazine article was even
more fawning. So this is the introduction to Jeffrey Epstein,
international money man of mystery. He's pals with a passle
of Nobel Prize winning scientists, CEO is like Leslie Wexler,

(11:04):
have limited socialite Gassain Maxwell, and even Donald Trump. But
it wasn't until he flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and
Chris Tucker to Africa on his private Boeing seven seven
but the world began to wonder who he is. So,
so do we need to just by association, do we

(11:25):
need to look into Chris Tucker or something we might
We might need to look into Chris Tucker. We definitely
need to look into Kevin Spacey. Yeah, I mean, that's
like I know right now that that plane is full
of mostly monsters. And Chris Tucker, and so I just
just is poor Chris Tucker just some guy who got
caught up with some bad people? Or is he like
this is my crew of this is we I write

(11:47):
a plane with my buddies and we all do the
same terrible stuff. See that's one of the terrifying things
of the Jeff Epstein story because no matter who you are,
someone you think is awesome has wound up in close
proximity to him, and it's impossible to know if they
did something terrible. Oh that's not great, No, it's it's
really bad. So no one really seems to know how

(12:08):
Epstein went from the guy who got forced out of
bear Sterns for insider trading to the billionaire who flew
Bill Clinton and Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker to Africa
as part of a charity in two thousand two. Um,
we don't really know how that happened. It's kind of
a mystery. Epstein's became famous starting in the nineteen nineties
as a man who would only work for rich people
whose assets were worth more than a billion dollars. So

(12:30):
he basically jumped right from or at least his claim
is that he jumped right from you know, bear Stearns too,
I only manage the finances of billionaires, and like did
that in the space of less than a decade and
nobody really knows how. So that's that's the basics of it.
When journalists would write articles about him during this period,
they would interview people who would tell stories about unnamed

(12:51):
plutocrats worth five million or seven hundred million who supposedly
reached out to Epstein and gotten turned down for being
too small beans when asked. Also, when you say he
went from bear Stearns to billionaires and no one knows
how it happened, this is I know you're a factual show.
I feel like I can say this. There's a zero
chance that it was for good reasons, right, There's a

(13:12):
zero chance that was zero chance that people are just
like he's just the sweetest. He remembers my kid's birthday.
I kind of feel like that might be the case
with anyone who manages the money of billionaires, Like I
feel like no billionaires, Like I love my tax guy
because he's so fair. I love my tax guy because
he overthrew the government of that one country that I
was using as a tax shelter. He blew up the

(13:33):
journalist who wrote the Panama Papers with a car bomb. Now,
when he was reached out to like asked about how
he had sort of turned into the guy who only
works for billionaires and made that into a business, Epstein
would say stuff like quote, I was the only person
crazy enough or arrogant enough, or misplaced enough to make
my limit a billion dollars or more. So he would

(13:55):
just claim it is like I was so bold that
it like impressed people, and that's why they started giving
me their business, which is again, it's remarkable how many
journalists just ran with this story for like twenty years
and we're just like, I guess that's what happened. Uh.
He was said in the nineties to manage more than
fifteen billion dollars in assets, which would mean he was

(14:16):
taking in close to a hundred million a year just
in commissions. He described his job as being like an architect,
helping the very wealthy maintain the stability of their portfolio
so they would never wind up not rich ever. Again. Now,
Epstein's claims about how he got to this point are
that in nineteen eighty two, after leaving bear Sterns, he
opened his own company, Jay Epstein and Company, and somehow,

(14:36):
despite being new to the industry, he immediately amassed a
stable of billionaire clients. According to New York Magazine quote,
there were no road shows, no whiz bang marketing demos,
just this Jeff Epstein was open for business with those
one billion dollar plus. I want people to understand the power,
the responsibility, and the burden of their money, he said
to a colleague at the time. As a teacher at Dalton,
he had witnessed firsthand the troubled attitudes of some of

(14:56):
the poor, little rich kids under his charge at Bear.
He had come to the realization that counterintuitively, the more
money you had, the more anxious you became. For a
middle class kid from Brooklyn, it just didn't make sense.
So podcast listeners can't tell because this is an audio format.
But you're listening at home. My dog is sitting in
my lap and he just did a huge jerk off

(15:17):
motion with his paw for a while at the sound
of poor little rich kids. And also the burden of
lots of money. The burden of lots of money. Uh,
what what a great burden that would be? The burden
of going to the doctor regularly. Yeah, let me let
me check in with those guys. You're tired. You need
some help with your burden. You need someone to lighten
that load for you. I have some suggestions. Now. The

(15:42):
first journalists who actually do a not completely garbage job
of writing about Jeffrey Epstein where they just repeated all
of his his his bullshit and talked about how nice
his house was, and we will talk about his house
a little bit. But the first journalist who actually dig
into it was a reporter named Vicky Ward with Vanity Fair.
She actually dug into his finances and found evidence that,

(16:03):
for one, Epstein worked with a ton of non billionaire
clients during the nineteen eighties and nineties. She found a
nineteen eight and nine deposition in which he testified under
oath that of his business was not helping billionaires, but
helping people find money that had been stolen by fraudulent
brokers and lawyers. They also found a lawsuit against him
in nineteen eighty two which said that he received four
hundred and fifty thousand dollars from a client worth four

(16:24):
point five million dollars to invest in oil and promptly
lost all of it. May recognize four and a half
million dollars as less than a billion dollars. So I
do want you guys, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Math is nobody's strong suit. On this podcast, I run
the numbers twice. Uh Now. Vanity Fair writer Vicky Ward
interviewed some people who had been friends with Epstein during
since the nineteen eighties. These people recalled that after his

(16:47):
Bear Stearns period, rather than jumping right into billionaire money management,
Epstein was a self described bounty hunter, recovering lost and
stolen money for a variety of clients. He had a
license to carry a handgun in New York City, which
is a really hard thing to do, like the hardest
gun related license to get in this country. But yeah, yeah,
it's you don't get a carry license in New York

(17:08):
City unless you're really rich or the governor okay, or
the or the or the really rich governor that currently
Yeah anyway, now, uh, can I just ask what the
what the name of the article that was the Big Lord? Yeah,
her article was the talented Mr Epstein. Okay, it was
a play on the talented Mr. Right. It's it's continuing

(17:31):
the theme of late nineties movies about Jeff Epstein for
some reason that was that was the only way to
rate a title back then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm looking
forward to Epstein Love been Red Epstein, Epstein to when
Nature Calls. Yeah yeah, that's the story about that flight
to Africa. Bam brought it, brought it around. So it's

(17:54):
clear that Epstein's rise to billionaire financier was not as
smooth as he presents it. It's almost impossible to unwrap
exactly how Epstein got so rich and precisely what he did,
but we do know that either in nine or nineteen
eighty six, he started up a friendship with Lex Wexler,
the billionaire founder of Victoria's Secret, among other retail companies.
By the time people started writing about Epstein, he managed
virtually all of Wexler's money. Now, most coverage at this

(18:16):
time focused on his connection to Wexler as an explanation
for how Epstein rose to prominence. Taken that way, his
rises the story of a brilliant and an orthodox funds
manager who proved himself so invaluable to one billionaire that
he soon became the go to money guy of the
incredibly rich. But there is no hard evidence that this
is the case either. Even Epstein's friends at the time,
including Tiffany and Company CEO Rosa Moncton, admitted that there

(18:38):
was something strange about Jeffrey's background. So this is what
she told Vanity fair quote. He's very enigmatic. You think
you know him, and the new peel off another ring
of the onion skin and there's something else extraordinary underneath.
He never reveals his hand. He's a classic Iceberg. What
you see is not what you get. So can we
talk about um, this can't be an original thought. When

(18:59):
you peel back a layer of an onion, it's more onion.
It is more onion. It's never like you don't peel
an onion. It's like there's seeds and fruit in here.
It's just more on you. Well, Daniel, Sometimes you peel
back an onion and you find an Iceberg. Okay, yes,
and then behind with Iceberg is a different hand of poker, right, yeah,
this is this, This horse is just the tip of

(19:20):
the onion. Part of why Epstein was able to remain
so enigmatic may have been the fact that he threatened
the journalists who wrote about him. That is, at least
the allegation made in Vicky Ward's Vanity Fair article, She
notes that a reporter she talked to told her that
they were threatened three times during the preparation of a piece.
The threats quote were delivered in a jocular tone, but

(19:40):
the message was clear, there will be trouble for your
family if I don't like the article. I'm not really
sure how you deliver that in a jocular tone. Yeah,
slap on the back and I'm gonna kill your wife.
Your daughter's name Susan, right, How I know that I'm
not trying to get these pictures of her school. People

(20:02):
who view Epstein as a financial genius tend to say
that he was made by Wexler. Epstein, for his part,
is too prideful to give any one person credit for
his rise. He claims he had other rich accounts that
he managed before being put in charge of Wexley's fortune.
But Vanity Fair found another Epstein connection that suggests a
somewhat less savory jump start to his fortune. Stephen Jude
Hoffenberg met Jeffrey Epstein in London at some point in

(20:23):
the nineteen eighties. Hoffenburg was the head of the Towers
Financial Corporation, which was on paper, a collection agency that
bought debts people owed to hospitals, banks, and other institutions.
In reality, the company was a gigantic ponzi scheme. Hoffenberg
used the company funds to pay off early investors and
by himself mansions and homes, as well as a small
fleet of jet planes. When Epstein and Hoffenberg met, the
former had been running a small consulting company out of

(20:45):
his apartment. He'd just been ousted from bear Stearns, and,
in Hoffenberg's words, was getting into trouble. Uh Hoffenberg hired
Epstein on as a consultant. At the time the Vanity
Fair article was published two thousand three, It was unclear
exactly what Epstein did for Tower Financial, but it is
clear is that the sec came down on the company.
Hard Hoffenburg was charged with running a four d and

(21:06):
fifty million dollar ponzi scheme, one of the largest in
American history, and was sentenced to twenty years in prison.
He has more recently claimed that Epstein was behind the
entire ponzi scheme and was in fact the architect of it,
but somehow managed to escape prosecution. But that's only in
the last year or two. Okay, seems like he made
his money from a pyramid scheme. Yeah, that's fine at

(21:27):
a certain point, when you're dealing with lots and lots
of money and people with no conscience, I can't even
understand the crimes that they're doing anymore. I just like,
this person took a lot of money from a lot
of other people and lied to people, and there were
jets and planes and consulting, and I was like, okay, yeah, money, money,
money only crime, crime, crime, that's fine. I I I

(21:49):
will never make enough money to either commit one of
these schemes or um be taken in by one of them,
so I I feel I'm protected there. But it's just
again the same thing with like Bernie made off or
I'm just dimly aware that he did a bad thing,
but I can't, like if you put a gun to
my head right now. I was like, we'll give me
a five pterograph essay. Yeah, crimes. And if if this

(22:12):
was he was just a guy who became a billionaire
because he did some insider training and ran a Ponzi
scheme and then uh lied about how he became a billionaire,
he wouldn't be interesting. Um. But the fact of the
matter is that Epstein there was something else going on
in this entire period, um that maybe are we going
to get into this philanthropy now or what? Yeah, we're

(22:35):
talking philanthropy. So we're gonna talk about Jeffrey Epstein's sexual crimes,
uh and how they may be tied to the gigantic
and possibly inexhaustible fortune that he still maintains to this day.
But first is an ad pivot dance. Oh yeah, yeah.
Some of those some of those tasty, tasty ads which

(22:56):
I can promise all our listeners are are not Ponzi schemes,
although I don't know what a Ponzi scheme is. U. Yeah,
they could be. That feels like a crazy thing to
promise your listeners. You're right, uh, yep. Like I believe
that you spent two weeks reading International Money, Man of
Mystery and uh doing lots of research for this episode.

(23:19):
I don't believe that you thoroughly vetted like a belt
company that's gonna advertise on the podcast. So that's not
attactive belt companies, Daniel. No, I mean, I don't know
what a Ponzi scheme is. That's all I can say.
Oh boy, this this ad pivot has gone off the rails.

(23:40):
Stand Yeah, products we're back. We still don't know what
a Ponzi scheme is or what a belt is because
I have worn nothing but sweatpants for the last six months.
Uh that's true. Yeah, Sophie's Sophie shaking her head because

(24:02):
she has not seen me in another pair of pants.
Every year or so, I find a pair of sweatpants
that looks just enough like real pants that I feel
like I can get away with wearing them every day,
and then I do. They don't. I know, everyone knows
I'm wearing pajamas, but yeah, I don't think I've seen
you in sweatpants. I've seen you in pajama pants, and

(24:23):
I've seen like different weird pants. You. You've got a
bunch of weird pants. I do that that that I
find alienating, that eccentric pants. I've had a number of those. Yeah, well,
we all go through stages in our lives. Nope, you
had that whole sleeveless shirt period. Yeah, it was hot.
It did give me the courage to to to go

(24:43):
sons out, guns out, So I thank you for that. Dan.
Let's talk about horrible sex crimes. Jeff Epstein's sex crimes
were not public knowledge until two five, but he spent
the entirety of the yearly two thousands, and probably the
nineteen nineties as well, committing them, maybe even further back.
We don't really know how far back crimes go, but
I think now is a prudent time to get into
some detail about what exactly jeff Epstein was up to.

(25:06):
The Miami Herald, which published a massive investigation at Epstein
just this year, describes his activities as a sort of
sexual pyramid scheme. And I do know what a pyramid
scheme is, Okay? Is that not a Ponzi scheme? I
don't think so, Dan, But I don't know. I did.
I didn't do that research. I know it's I know
it's it's shady. Now. Epstein had a team of helpers,

(25:28):
primarily in Palm Springs, but all around the world, everywhere
he had residences, which included New York City and New Mexico. Uh.
These helpers would find young women that they could bring
back to one of Jeffrey's various mansions, and then, while
here's a helpful summary of the scheme by the Washington
Post quote, Epstein would the help from several female assistants
would recruit underage females to travel to his home in
Palm Beach to engage in lewd conduct in exchange for money.

(25:51):
Some went there as many as a hundred times or more.
Some of the women's conduct was limited to performing a
toplesser nude massage, while Mr Epstein masturbated himself. For other
women that escalated to full sexual intercourse. Now that's a decent,
high level overview, but I want to correct one thing,
which is that most of these people were not women.
They were girls. The majority of them were under eighteen

(26:12):
at least that's what it seems. We don't have, you know,
exact evidence, but most of the people that the police
and the FBI later talked to were like between twelve
and sixteen when he started. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I
do think it's important that we bring in some of
the human stories of the individual young girls who got
caught up in this mess. The story of Virginia Roberts

(26:32):
is a good case study. Like many of the literal
children that Jeffrey Epstein targeted, she had a hard childhood.
At age eleven, she had been molested by a family friend.
By age twelve, she was by her own recollection, smoking
weed and skipping school. By age fourteen, she was living
on the street. Her family was ship and she had
very little support. She wound up in the clutches of
a sixty five year old sex trafficker named Ron Eppinger.

(26:54):
She was abused and pimped out for months until Eppinger
was indicted in two thousand. Virginia traveled back to West
Palm Beach reconnected with her father, who worked as a
maintenance man at Donald Trump's Mara Lago resort. He got
her a job as a locker room attendant at the spot.
That very summer, sixteen year old Virginia Roberts met Gilsain Maxwell,
a British socialite and heiress to one of Britain's great fortunes.

(27:15):
Gilsain happened to be a longtime friend of Jeffrey Epstein.
Hilsain offered Roberts the opportunity of a lifetime get paid
to learn to become a massage therapist at the home
of a wealthy billionaire, Jeffrey Epstein. That Vanity Fair article
that about Epstein, written the same year all of this happened,
but way before his sexual crimes were public knowledge, described
the relationship between Epstein and Gilsain Maxwell this way quote.

(27:37):
Epstein is known about town as a man who loves women,
lots of them, mostly young model types, have been heard
saying they are full of gratitude to Epstein for flying
them around, and he is a familiar face to many
of the victorious Secret girls. One young woman recalls being
summoned by Gilsain Maxwell to a concert at Epstein's townhouse,
where the women seemed to outnumber them in by far.
These were not women you'd see at Upper east Side dinners,
the woman recalls, many seemed foreign and dressed a little bizarrely.

(28:00):
The same guest also attended a cocktail party thrown by
Maxwell that Prince Andrew attended, which was filled, she says,
with young Russian models. Some of the guests were horrified.
The women says, so that's what people knew before the
sex crimes were common knowledge. Jeff Epstein likes really young girls.
There's always a out of young women at his parties. Um,
now's a certain kind of money or status or whatever

(28:23):
it is that like people can be that public about. Yeah,
he's known for liking women, a lot of them young.
The fact that he is fine with that a with
that reputation existing and be the people who are saying
it fine with saying it, just like broadcasting this this
this common supert Like I don't even understand people. Is

(28:44):
that it I don't understand rich people aren't like I
would not like to have a reputation like even like
if they're like the young part out of it, you
were like, oh, Dan, I know, here's what he's known
for love and women like now, I'd rather not be known.
I a much of like Dan Glasses runs a lot.
Glasses and runs a lot you don't want to be

(29:06):
known for. Like every time I go over to his house,
there's a bunch of different strange women in weird outfits
hanging around, right enough enough of a reputation that it's
the first thing people think of about you. Is it
is bad to me, but everyone there is fine with it.
I don't know. And that's part of why this is
like a bit of a leap of a conclusion on
my apartment. This is part of why I suspect all

(29:26):
of this stuff. Even though every everything we have details
on of his sex crimes dates back to the early
two thousand's, I suspect it goes back to the nineties
and probably the eighties, because that's everyone who talked to
him and those periods of time or talked about him
was like, yeah, he really likes his young ladies hanging around,
which is like, okay, so this has been going on
for a long time. Yeah, and we're this is the

(29:48):
timeline on. This is a little wonky. So we're switching
around a little bit, but we're building to something weird here.
So cool now. Virginia Roberts, again sixteen at that time,
started off giving Epstein massages, and those massages inevitably progressed
to blow jobs and other sexual stuff that we're not
going to cover into tail he raped her because the
age of consent in Florida is eighteen. So any sex

(30:10):
that Jeffrey Epstein had with Virginia Roberts was by definition rape.
I just want to be very clear about that. Epstein's
pattern was remarkably consistent among the dozens and dozens of
girls he abused. According to the Miami Herald quote, most
of the girls said they arrived by car or taxi
and entered the side door, where they were led into
a kitchen by a female staff assistant named Sarah Kellen.
The report said, a chef might prepare them a meal

(30:32):
or offer them serial. The girls, most from local schools,
would then ascend a staircase off of the kitchen and
up to a master bedroom and bath. They were met
by Epstein. Clad in a towel. He would select a
lotion from an array lined up on a table, then
life faced down on a massage table and struck the
girl to strip partially or fully and direct them to
massages feet and backside. Then he would turn over and
have the massages chest, often instructing them to pinch his

(30:53):
nipples while he masturbated. According to the police report, again,
the youngest girls brought in on this were like twelve,
So Jesus yeah Christ yeah. Photos of the young girls
were allegedly taken and displayed around Epstein's home. At least
one victim accused him of penetrating her with his penis
after she explicitly said no. He apologized afterwards and gave
her a thousand dollars. So two hundred dollars if he

(31:16):
just masturbated him, if he like, not just statutorily raped you,
but other type raped you, raped you, he'd give you
a thousand dollars. That's that that's Epstein's price sheet. Like
many of his victims. After her first encounter with Epstein,
Virginia was asked to help in essentially feeding more young
girls into Epstein's well oiled rape machine. Virginia believes she

(31:36):
eventually became one of his top recruiters. Here's what she
said later in a court affidavit quote. Epstein and Maxwell
also got girls for Epstein's friends and acquaintances. Epstein specifically
told me that the reason for him doing this was
so that they would owe him. They would be in
his pocket and he would have something on them. I
understood him to mean that when someone was in his pocket,

(31:57):
they owed him favors. He Epstein would tell the girls, hey,
I will give you a modeling contract if you go
have sex with this man. So you see what we're
building two here a little bit. Yeah, I'm starting to
put the pieces together. I know a lot of my
role on as a guest on your show is to
is to ask questions and jump in with with jokes,

(32:19):
not not really loving the setups. Not like in the
raw materials. I'm getting to spin into comedy. Gold Bro. Yeah,
it's it's it's more like it's more like I've given
you comedy copper, and I we can keep the rust
off of it. When Virginia Roberts turned nineteen, she was
officially too old for Jeffrey Epstein. She asked him to

(32:41):
fly her to Thailand so that she could take massage
training classes and you know, move on with her life now.
A man who was actually as smart as Epstein likes
to think he is would probably have just given her
some of his unlimited money to set this woman with
incriminating information about him up in a comfortable new life.
But he only agreed to pay for her to Thailand
if she'd agreed to pick up a teenage tie girl

(33:02):
that he'd basically arranged to buy an import into the
United States. Um. Yeah, Roberts did not do this. She
apparently met a guy while she was in Thailand. They
fell in love and ran away to Australia together. She
kept the paperwork that Epstein had given her, though, including
instructions for how to bring this literal child into the
United States so he could pass her around to his
rich friends, which is again some of the mountain of

(33:24):
evidence that was collected by the prosecutors when this finally
got investigated. Now, It's impossible again for us to know
how much of this was going on in the late
eighties and the nineteen nineties during Epstein's rise to power
and prominence. But if you assume it goes back a
long way, well, a lot of awful things Vanity Fair
found that we're just sort of baffling at the time,
make an awful lot of sense. Now. Jeffrey Epstein was

(33:44):
pimping out children to their rich and powerful. If he
didn't directly profit from that by charging them, it got
him favors and access that were crucial to the building
of his vast fortune. Many of the lines from that
Vanity Fair article and other articles written about Epstein in
the early two thousand's sound down rite sinister with the
knowledge that when they were written, he was actively importing
teenagers from foreign countries and recruiting disadvantaged teenagers here in America,

(34:08):
raping them himself, and then lending them out to his wealthy,
powerful friends. Quote from the Fanity Fair article. Some of
the business men who dined with him at his home.
They include newspaper publisher Mort Zuckerman, banker Lewis Ranieri, Revlon
chairman Ronald Perlman, real estate tycoon Leon Black, former Microsoft
executive Nathan Meyer, old Tom Pritzker of Hyatt Hotels, and
real estate personality Donald Trump sometimes seem not president the president.

(34:34):
Weird sex stuff that's probably illegal. That guy who just
sucked a flag, And I hate to say this, but
I don't think that flag was eighteen Dan damn it. Yeah.
I wish he'd done it to a statue because then
we could then we could have had a good statutory
rate joke. Yeah, but just another tragedy of this. It's

(35:03):
I'm sorry I took the wind out of your sales
if you were ramping up to something. Can I ask
a question now? No, No, it's it's it's basically people
back then. Uh, I know, it's it's I'm trying not
to get too conspiracy theory here because we just don't
know that much that's solid before the early two thousand's.
But we do know that for decades before it was

(35:24):
public knowledge that he was a child rape rapist, everyone
in the finance industry was baffled by how Jeffrey Epstein
got his money. Um, there's yeah, here's a quote from
New York Magazine. Quote. My belief is that Jeff maintains
some sort of money management firm that you won't get
a straight answer from him, says what one well known investor.
He once told me he had three people working for him,
and I've also heard that he manages Rockefeller money, but
one never knows. It's like looking at the Wizard of Oz.

(35:45):
There may be less there than meets the eye, or
a giant child rate machine, which I think is what
was actually there. I think I can take comfort and
the fact that no one will ever about me say
we didn't know where he got his money from or
what he spent it on, because it was like in
two thousands nine, I could tell he got a bonus
at work because he bought an iPad and that's it,

(36:09):
and then he paid his bills and groceries. Everyone can
see where all of my money went. In the tape
covered Toyota prius uh, I drive to Hollywood to record
this show kind of quickly. I don't know if there
if there's been a study on this, or if you
have any kind of fringe theory the relationship between being

(36:33):
rich and powerful and having disgusting sexual tastes is that
can you even like guess any kind of connection for them.
Like I don't want to say, oh, BILLI eaters do
this because like it seems hard for me to buy
that maybe Bill Gates is getting on a plane and
trying to have sex with a fourteen year old child.
But if there's enough of them that Epstein knows that

(36:57):
there is a business in specifically connecting rich people with children,
I don't know why does that market exist? You know,
what is the relationship therein? Yeah? I mean I think
for a guy like Epstein, it's simple enough. I think
he's he's a predator, and I think, like whether or
not he get rich, he would have preyed on people.
But I think maybe for maybe one reason why so

(37:18):
many really rich people uh wind up in doing this
is because like and I think you could see it's
starting almost innocuously where just or not innocuously, but without
any sort of predatory behavior on their behalf, just because
money and power are so like valuable in our society.
If someone has the ability to get you roles in Hollywood,

(37:40):
or someone has the ability to get you a job
that can set you up for life, then maybe you'll
sleep with that person and like not even sort of
question it. So they get used to that sort of thing,
and it kind of spirals out from there, like, Oh,
I just get whatever I want because I have all
this money, And that goes from like what I want
is having sex with these twenty year old models to
like they get younger and younger and younger, and you

(38:01):
just stop, like taking account of the ages and stuff
you assume you're above. Like I don't know, um, I
could see it. It's just so confusing to me as
someone who grew up lower middle class and has since
gotten more money and the end, like I still don't
even fly first class. That even feels like an extravagance
to me, like the things that I would consider like, oh, yeah,

(38:23):
I have this amount of money, so I deserve like
a nice meal at a nice restaurant every once in
a while. I can't imagine. By some strange sis to fate,
we decide comedy is the most important thing in the world,
and then I become a billionaire ten years from now,
is a switch going to flip in my brain that like,
now that I have a billion dollars, you know, I've
always wanted to try, like, like, how is it that

(38:45):
so many billionaires want to have want to get on
a plane and have sex with children with their fucking
psychopath predator friend Jeffrey. Well, I'll say this, and I
didn't prepare the information for this podcast, but it's something
I've been researching for another project. There is some sign
entific evidence on how both wealth and power affect the brain,
and it's been described as similar to a head injury.

(39:06):
Um So, one of the things that happens when you
have an elevated position of wealth and power, uh, is
that you become separated from the consequences of your actions,
which leads to an increase in impulsive behavior. And again,
like that increase and impulsive behavior has been compared by
the scientists doing the neurological research to some of the
things that happen when you have a head injury. Um so,

(39:28):
that's could Probably part of it is that like you,
just like like you and I have gotten lucky enough
that we've gotten like book deals and stuff and jobs
that paid us better than we expected to be paid,
but we still didn't like fly first class because you
look at that and it's like, well, that's I could
buy a new laptop, and I want that more than
I want to be more comfortable for seven hours or whatever.

(39:49):
Someone who has billions of dollars, then money is not
a thing, and so like that, it just sort of
like I think it just warps your perspective on everything
over a time, as does power, and so like you
don't like, I'm gonna guess a lot of these people.
This is one of the things where like one of
the many things where like the Q and on people
and the Peto gate people get it wrong. Is they

(40:11):
assume all these people want to funck literal children. I
don't think that's it. And from what I've heard, age
never came up with the people that like the kid,
the young women that like, and the girls that Jeffrey
was basically handing out to his friends. They weren't even
checking on the age. They weren't saying I want an
underage girl. He was just finding girls he found attractive
and handing them off to his rich friends, and nobody

(40:32):
questioned what age they were because they were usually on
his plane or on his island in international water, So
why would they ask, Like, I think that's what it
is more than anything, is this like knowledge that you'll
never be accountable for your actions whatever they are. And
also because you're so rich, and powerful, Like nobody asks you,
they just bring you things, right, Like that's kind of

(40:54):
how it is. It's like at the Oscars you get
a box of fucking iPads or whatever that you don't
even give a it about because it's like, well, it's
thirty thou dollars with the free stuff, because that's what
everyone gets at the Oscars. But like we're all rich,
nobody cares like, yeah, it's it's it's a different world,
and it's a world where it's easy to accidentally or

(41:15):
maybe not accidentally. Maybe a lot of these people were like, hey, Jeffrey,
do you have any twelve year olds? I don't know, Um,
I mean, I guess was probably a mix of the two,
depending on who you're talking about. So hopefully Chris Tucker
and they weren't all children. So even if Chris Tucker
had sex on Epstein's creepy plain, maybe it was with
an adult trying to give Chris Tucker the benefit of
the uh the doubt here, I am too, just because

(41:37):
I don't Yeah, I've heard nothing bad about him, Yeah, exactly,
And that was a charity, So maybe that one was
one where he didn't do anything shady. But we will
talk about that. It could have been a case where
like he got he got there and did charity. Yeah,
it was like Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey. Why are you
guys so disappointed? We were here for charity? Was great? Oh,

(42:02):
speaking of Champagne, Daniel Lobrien, it's time for an ad
break and maybe that ad will be for Champagne. And
I don't know about it. I bet it's sucking Mario
Lopez talking to you about weird stuff. Mario Lopez with
his dead eyes? Can we say that, Sophie, she's saying,
we can't talk about Mario Lopez's dead eyes. Mario Lopez
is lively, lust filled heart add We're back and we're

(42:35):
talking about how De Rito's hasn't wised up yet. Yeah,
I can't understand it. I mean, I just just do it. Deritos,
What the fuck? They're rich in? Wealth warps your perceptions?
How out of touch with with the real world? The
mighty are you know, mighty like Dorito's. But back before
he got rich, John Dorito probably would have recognized what

(42:56):
an opportunity this podcast is. Oh my god, back when
we used to call him Johnny Johnny d Johnny from
up the street for whatever. He just show up at
punk shows with a homemade bag of Doritos and hand
them out. I remember seeing him at Chateau Marmont and
I was like Johnny D from up the street, and
he was like, it's john Now. I was like, holy shit, Yeah,

(43:18):
that's when the time's changed. Now he won't even give
this humble podcast a couple small midsize sedan's worth of
of advertising dollars. Heartbreaking fools. Okay, so I do want
to read one other quote from one of one of
Jeffrey Epstein's famous friends, from that New York Magazine article

(43:39):
back before anyone knew he was a child molester, or
at least back before the public knew he was a
child molest quote. If you talk to Donald Trump, a
different Epstein emerges. I've known jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,
Trump booms from a speaker phone. He's a lot of
fun to be with. It is even said that he
likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many
of them are on the younger side, No doubt about it.

(44:01):
Jeffrey enjoys his social life. The president the president of
a whole last country too, Yeah, of a whole last
country talking at a time when we know for a
fact Jeff Epstein was essentially pimping out teenagers. Yeah and
uh and forgive me again, when when was that interview too? Okay?

(44:23):
So even that is is is strange to me that
that anyone listening to him when he's like rumor has it, uh,
he likes women as much as I do, and sell
of them young, that no one jumps into be like,
I mean, what do you mean some of them young?
Why instead of me just passively writing down what you're

(44:45):
saying and be like he boomed from a spigger phone,
just like a single follow up question of like how young? Yeahy.
Given our society's focus for like men on being like
smooth and good with them, and I could see something
like oh, yeah, Jeff, he loves the ladies, but then
like saying not just he loves the ladies, but and
they're really young. Yeah. Just googling like two thousand two

(45:12):
movies to see what we were talking about or thinking
about at the time, to see if there was any
like teachable moments like oh, it's two blank movie came
out and we all learned that it's bad for old
men to creep on young women. That was the message
of the first Spider Man movie, Right, yeah, yeah, More

(45:33):
or less, Donald Trump is not the only president of
the United States who spent a lot of time with
Jeffrey Epstein. Bill Clinton spent at least as much time
and logged even more flights with Epstein on his private plane,
which some have dubbed the Lowly to express Epstein's hold
on googling to find out if there's another low leader
who's famous, then maybe it was like Nope, just the one,

(45:54):
just one famous, just the one famous. It's not based
on anything, just a fun nickname. Now. Epstein's pilots log
books are public domain now thanks to some of the
many many civil lawsuits around his crimes. Gawker put together
a pretty good write up over how slick Willie fits
into all of this. They note that Clinton rode on
Epstein's plane at least eleven times between two thousand two

(46:15):
and two thousand three. Okay, what are the on paper
reasons for writing on Epstein's plane? Oh? Is it always
going somewhere for charity? Or is it? Or it's sure not, Dan,
It's sure not? Like what is he telling people? I'm
I'm getting on this plane. Again, what is his outloud reason.
He's he's not giving an out loud reason. So here's
what we have. Quote. In January two tho, for instance,

(46:38):
Clinton and his a Doug Band and Clinton's secret service
detail are listed on a flight from Japan to Hong
Kong with Epstein, Maxwell, Kellen, and two women described only
as Janice and Jessica. One month later, records show Clinton
hopped a ride from Miami to Westchester on a flight
that included Epstein, Maxwell, Kellen, and a woman described only
as one female. Okay, now I should like like, hey, Bill,

(47:02):
how was Japan? What what did you get into there?
And he scraps I found. He just he just flies
around on this plane and doesn't explain it. He flies
around on this plane with Jeffrey Epstein, the two people
who are named in multiple court documents as procuring women
for jeff Epstein, and the people that he pimped those
women out to our girls out to uh sorry and
uh and unnamed women. Okay, yeah, yeah, it seems pretty bad.

(47:25):
Seems seems pretty bad. Seems like a real bummer evans
Bill Clinton might have done something really bad. Uh. Now
that two thousand to New York Magazine article we've been
quoting from was written because again, you know, Epstein had
just made the news for flying Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey,
Chris Tucker, Gayls, and Gail Smith, who wound up on
Obama's National Security Council to Africa. Now, on that two
thousand to flight, Epstein's guests were all accompanied by Chaunte Davis.

(47:49):
She's one of the twenty seven women listed in Epstein's
Black Book, which also got out through a court case
under the heading Massage California. He had a hundred and
sixty names listed as massage artists in six different locations.
Many of those women were under age, but for Chris
Tucker's sake, Shante was not. She was twenty three at
the time of the flight, So it is possible that

(48:10):
even if some prostitution went down on that flight, it
was not necessarily anything terrible on that specific flight. When contacted,
Shanta did not have much to say. So it's possible
that Chris Tucker, Gaylee, and Kevin Spacey were just using
this plane because Epstein offered it very publicly to help
out a charity. It's possible that if they did have
any sex, it was with you know, an adult prostitute.

(48:30):
But when it comes to the case of Bill Clinton,
it's a lot harder to exonerate him because eleven times
is a lot of times to fly on Jeffrey Epstein's
playing with unnamed women. Yes, yes, it's uh, it's I mean,
I don't I don't even really think we need to
know the game. No, Clinton, he sucks. Did you do
a book Clinton episode yet? No? No, but he sucks.
You should do a Bill Clinton. Well, well, we'll get

(48:52):
to it. There's a long list now. The one upside
to the whole horrible Jeffrey Epstein saga is that he
might actually be something we can unite the country behind.
Because no matter who you are, and no matter how
you identify politically, someone you admire wrote on Jeffrey Epstein's
plane and may have raped a traffic child on it.
Other Epstein frequent flyers include Alan Dershowitz, the lawyer who

(49:14):
regularly defends Trump on TV, defended Epstein in court, and
is accused by name of having sex with an underaged
child prostitute. Naomi, if you're trying to like prove that
one of my heroes wrote on this plane and you
started with Alan Dershwitz. He was just an named Dan.
Give me a second. Naomi Campbell, the former supermodel and businesswoman,
former Treasury secretary and Harvard President, Larry Summers, Stephen Pinker,

(49:38):
the Canadian popular psychologist and author of such best selling
books as Enlightenment Now and How the Mind Works? And
Stephen Hawking. What Yeah, Stephen Hawking. See. It turns out
that Jeffrey Epstein had what the Telegraph called an island
of sin. It's an island he owns in the Virgin Islands.
Little St. James, unofficially known to his friends as Little
Saint jeff Hawking actually travel they're in two thousands. Yeah,

(50:02):
it's a terrible name. Uh. And the women who have
accused him of sexual trafficking say that a lot of
the sexual trafficking happened on that island, and that they
were passed around on that island, and Hawking traveled there
in two thousand six, a year after the first allegations
against Epstein were made public. Uh. Epstein apparently paid to

(50:22):
modify a ship so the sixty one year old physicist
could take partner cruise. Hawking is pictured on the island
with several young but presumably adult women enjoying a barbecue.
So again, it's really hard to say. Maybe nothing bad
went down with Hawking. Uh, it was really common for
Epstein to hang out with physicists. He put tens of
millions of dollars into research projects around the world. He

(50:44):
also hung out and flew with luminaries in the field
like Murray Gellman. Uh. He was close to Martin Novak,
a mathematical biologist and professor at Harvard University. Epstein put
twenty million dollars into Harvard University, much of it to
support Novak's work. Vanity Fair talked to both of these
guys back into thousand three quote. When these men describe Epstein,
they talk about the energy and curiosity, as well as

(51:05):
a love for theoretical physics that they don't ordinarily find
the layman. Gelman rather sweetly mentions that there are always
pretty ladies around when he goes to dinner at Shaye Epstein. So,
I feel like if Hawking didn't, a lot of famous
physicists probably had sex with underage people and Epstein's Yeah,
and even if Hawking didn't and had no interest in it,

(51:28):
if a couple of punks like you and me know
these stories about Epstein. Stephen Hawking probably did. It was
probably in the air at that point. And it's very
easy to say, you're sucking into type. No, I don't
want to go on on your plane. You can you
you don't have to go on the Lolita Express to

(51:49):
Little Sat Jeff like, it's very easy to not do that.
Didn't say it that way. I'm gonna do it again tomorrow.
You're not going to get on the Lolita Express to
Little Sat Jeff to row every single day, I make
that choice. That's good to know. That's good to know. Now.
One of the things that's like most common in all
of his pre sex offender interviews is that Epstein would

(52:10):
brag about his contributions to science, or at least the
contributions of his money to science. Most of the reporting
during the pre sexual crime allegations period tended to portray
him as an eccentric, mysterious genius. He's another exerpt from
that New York Magazine article quote, but it is his
COVID of scientists that inspires Epstein's true rapture. Epstein spends
twenty million a year on them, encouraging them to engage

(52:31):
in whatever kind of cutting edge research might attract their fancy.
There of course quite lavish in their praise in return.
Gerald Edelman won the Nobel Prize for Physiology and Medicine
in nineteen seventy two and now presides over the Neurosciences
Institute at Le Yalah. Jeff is so extraordinary and his
ability to pick up on quantitative relations, says Edelman. He
came to see us recently. He's concerned with this basic question.

(52:52):
Is it true that the brain is not a computer?
He is very quick. I found that really funny for
some reason. Now, as smart as he may be, and
that may be pretty smart, Jeffrey Epstein is not as
smart as he thinks he is. It seems like after
who knows how many years of going after impoverished girls,
foreigners and previously trafficked kids, Epstein got lazy. He started

(53:15):
targeting more and more girls from local high schools in
Palm Beach, Florida. In two thousand four, sixteen year old
Michelle Locata still had braces. She was brought into Jeffrey
Epstein's mansion to give him a massage in exchange for
a couple of hundred dollars he immediately asked her to strip.
Of course, according to the Miami Herald, quote Lacada had
never been naked in front of anyone else before, but

(53:37):
she did what he said. Epstein put out a timer,
set it for thirty minutes, and started fondling her while
he masturbated. She later recalled, I kept looking at the
timer because I didn't want to have this mental image
of what he was doing. He kept trying to put
his fingers inside me and told me to pinch his nipples.
He was mostly saying, just do that harder, harder, and
do this. Eventually, Epstein ejaculated, got up and went to
the shower. Leocada was sent away, but Epstein's people continued

(53:59):
to trawl her high school, Royal Palm Beach High. Before long,
students were talking about quote a creepy old guy named
Jeffrey who was paying between two hundred and three hundred
dollars apiece for massages that inevitably turned sexual. Not long
after her afternoon with Epstein, the Palm Beach police wound
up at Locata's front door. They'd started an investigation into
Epstein that year two thousand five, when a fourteen year

(54:20):
old girl prompted by her parents alleged that Epstein had
molested her in his mansion. This is what led to
the trial that ended with Epstein branded a sex offender
and sentenced to more than a year of prison. The
story of that trial, of epstein sentence, and of everything
that came next is arguably even more horrifying than what
we've discussed today. But you the listener will have to
wait until Thursday to hear that. In Part two of
the Epstein Saga, Jeffrey Epstein pimped to the Powerful. But first,

(54:44):
it's the end of the first episode. So you got
any plug double as you're gonna plug? Oh? Yeah, the
only thing that I want to plug relevant to my interests.
And also this episode of this organization called Children of
the Night that I used to volunteer with back in
Los Angeles. It's a privately funded nonprofit organization dedicated to
rescuing children and young people from prostitution worldwide. You can

(55:06):
find the Children of the Night dot org. If you
have some money to kick their way, they will always
take it for if you yourself are in danger. They
have a twenty four hour hotline and you can reach
out to them and they will find you and they
will save you from your situation. If you have to
find yourself in a particular situation. Uh. And if you're
not in this situation and you don't have any extra
money to spend, but you do happen to live in

(55:26):
the Los Angeles area, you can volunteer with Children of
the Night through a company called l A Works and
just show up there once a week to meet these amazing, wonderful,
brilliant survivors and just play games here their stories, do
arson crafts, whatever you want. It's a great organization. You
should do it. You should support them. You should. We

(55:47):
all should. Children of the Night. That's great. That's a
great plug. Dan Uh you know, I I pride myself
on my plugsman ship. But that was that was the
finest plug of the episode by far. Oh thank you. Well.
I feel weird saying you should look up our t
shirts online. But if you go to T Public and

(56:09):
look up Behind the Bastards you can also buy a shirt.
But you should, you should, You should done it your
shirt money to That's just sorry, Sophie. All right, Um,
I've been Robert Evans has been Behind the Bastards. You
can find us on social media at at Bastard's pod

(56:30):
on Twitter and Instagram. You can find all the sources
for this episode on Behind the Bastards dot com. Um,
that's all the plugs I got for the end of
this episode. Uh check back in Thursday where we will
have even more horrifying things to tell you I love
about