Part One: Josef Mengele & The Nazi Doctors

Robert is joined by Matt Lieb to begin our series on Nazi Doctor, Josef Mengele.

(4 Part Series)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Uh, who, what's Joseph my note? All right, it's coming
in hot. Yeah, yeah, what's Joseph my Nope? Take two,

(00:25):
Take two, everybody, This is Behind the Bastard's a podcast
about the worst people in all of history. And let's
just rip off that band aid. We're talking about Joseph
Mangela for the next four episodes. Yeah, the working title
of the doc is just Joseph Mangela Jesus Christ. Yeah,

(00:45):
so stoke, Stoke can be here. How you doing, Matt,
I'm doing good. You know, I've been I've been stoked
to come back on the show. Um, and I've I've
had this bit, you know, ready to go for a while.
Oh yeah, for I knew we're going to talk about
Joseph Manglo. I switched to the soundboard and it's all

(01:06):
it's a jar Binks. Great, and I now I'm realizing
the jar jar soundboard's not going to work from this
particular episode. Well, you know, a lot of people will
say this is actually an argument historians will make all
the time that oh no, I love it personally. A

(01:27):
lot of historians will argue that Mangelow was the jar
Jar Binks of the Nazi regime in that in that
he was an embarrassing and kind of sad character who
nonetheless had an almost Forrest Gump like availability around many
of the most significant moments in the history of the
Third Reich. Yeah, he was just around inventing has smiley

(01:49):
faced T shirts and seeing what what what? What will
happen if twins put together? He also he was also
briefly friends with Qui Gonjin. But that's a separate separate matter,
separate matter, separate matter, very very bad. So this is
I'm probably not gonna do much charge this episode just

(02:09):
based on subject matter alone. Oh boy. Yeah, but I'm enjoying. Yeah. Good. Look,
there's a lot we can say about the wisdom of
that particular decision, but what I respect is that you
made a choice. Mat Yeah, A lot of people in
this life, you know, never have the courage to choose,
and you did, so thank you. Yeah. I'm unfortunately, I'm

(02:31):
someone who I like to commit to a bit um,
you know, subject matter be damned. I'm like, you know,
even if people don't so much enjoy jar Jar coming
in out in out of an episode with a evil
Nazi doctor, It's like, Hey, at least he's committed right, yeah, exactly,
exactly not Mangla. Yeah, well he he was committed to.

(02:54):
You got to give that to the man. So m
we have you know, we have like we do and
go like, let's talk about I don't know, fucking something
fun cats. Yeah, so no, we're not going to do that.
We're gonna talk although josephs or cats as in James

(03:15):
Gordon in a bad costume. That's a bastard. We should
talk about. That is a bastard. We should talk about.
Joseph Mangela also liked cats, so there you go. Um, yeah,
he had a few. So here's the thing. You know,
we do a history podcast here where we talk about
the worst people ever, um, and we have a lot
of different subjects, and because you know we've been doing

(03:36):
this for so long, we'll alternate between, oh, this week
we're talking about a dictator. This week we're just talking
about a fascist who was pretty good at chess, or
we're making fun of Ben Shapiro's book. And whenever we
do those kind of like less in tense episodes, we
get a message from We get messages from people being like,
how dare you cover this guy who's not as bad

(03:56):
when you haven't done this. Other worst guy yet used
to be it used to be the person that we
would get most often for that was was Kissinger. Right.
People would be like, how how dare you talk about
I don't know so and so when you haven't taught
you Jordan Peterson when you haven't done Kissingers, Like, well,
Jordan Peterson was a little more fun than kissing Jerry right. Um,
since we've done the Kissinger episodes, now it's Joseph mangela um,

(04:21):
and all I have to say to the people who
have been messaging me about him is be careful what
you wish for shit birds, because here he fucking is,
so use have shit birds. By the way, one of
my favorite words that was synergistic to you know, can
I do my plug up top just in manga? Absolutely,
this is the time to do the plug man. Okay?

(04:42):
Uh So it's I have a why Are and Sopranos
rewatch podcast. It's called pod Yourself a gun. That's that's
what you look for on the iTunes store. You guys
have lots of reviews, like so many reviews. I feel
like people listen to your podcast. So I'm gonna say, hey,
sure you don't even have to listen a pod yourself
a gun. Just give us five stars in review and

(05:05):
you know, and a George or a quote and I'll
be happy. Dog Yeah, review bomb them, yeah, positively please. Yeah,
there's other wire podcasts. Sabotage them, cut their break lines,
you know, go out, go out there and do good. Yeah, Matt, Well,
first off, I want to ask what do you know
about Joseph Mangela? Like if a caveman got thought out

(05:27):
of ice and wanted you to explain the Holocaust to him,
how would you explain who Joseph Mangola was? Um, all
of my knowledge of Joseph Mangela comes from the Slayer
song Angel of Death, which doesn't tell you much, but
it's that. And I saw an info like one of

(05:49):
those like infographic you know, like kurtzcause it's like a
YouTube channel that has like what if, you know, an
asteroid hit the Earth and it's like a scientific yeah
yeah yeah. So some weird like off brand channel tried
to do the same thing with Mangola and it's terrible,
like because the person who's like narrating it is still
trying to do like a happy, engaging voice and you

(06:11):
can't really do that. Yeah, when you're talking about sewing
twins together. So, um, I know that he did that.
I know that he was I know how it ends.
I know, um that he's I know he's bad and
I know he was evil doctor. Also, the video ends

(06:33):
with sound off in the comments if you agree with
doctor Mangola's experiments, and I was like, that's not what's
for serious. That's how it ends. Yeah, that's how it ends.
And I was like, that's a mistake. That is a weird,
weird shit some unhinged. No, that's unhinged. Yeah, it's interesting

(06:53):
that you bring up because you you've brought up a
couple of times the sewing twins together stuff. There's a
lot of stories about Mangola. First off, your basic contention
he was an evil doctor, absolutely accurate. Obviously, this is
behind the bastards. We're covering him. A lot of the
stories about stuff Mangola did at Auschwitz are not entirely accurate,

(07:15):
in that they are things that happened, but they're not
necessarily things that Mangola did, and we're going to talk
about that. The actual the story of Manglo that has
kind of emerged is more robust historiography has come out
is a lot worse, I think than the stories that
we're coming out in the seventy The Boys from Brazil
era sort of like a depiction of him. I think

(07:37):
it's worse than you know, but it's also different in
some important ways. So I do want to let people know,
up top, this is going to be maybe not the
series you're expecting. We're going to spend all this week
actually talking about as much as we talk about Mangola's
early life, we're going to be talking about the birth
of the Nazi racial science medical community, because you cannot

(08:00):
extracate Mangola's acts from that larger medical apparatus. Um So,
without further ado, Joseph Rudolph the Red Nose Mangola, Why
did I do that? Was born on March sixteenth, nineteen eleven,
in a little I mean I like that. You were
just like, hey, you know what, why not from Christmas? Yeah,

(08:24):
he's a March baby, He's not that far off, And
you were like, he got what as say? Okay, I'm sorry,
go ahead, good god, I can the ADL is preparing
to fire bomb us both out of our homes. I
just up top, I am Jewish, and I also get

(08:46):
constantly brigaded by Nazis online. So yeah, and up top,
I did not ask you to put in the jar
Jar Binks soundbox. I was a peer peer you. I
did make the Rudolf the red Nose. I don't know
why anyway. He was born in a town called Gunsberg
on March sixteenth, nineteen eleven, in southern Germany. His father,
Carl Mangola, was an engineer who designed farming equipment and

(09:09):
owned a small manufacturing firm that produced it. If you
are particularly in Europe and in Latin America, if you're
like hang out on farms, you will see equipment often,
that says Mangola on it still yeah, yeah, no, there's
still a thing utty recently. It definitely had an impact

(09:30):
on the brand. I mean, I'm not going to say
you have to respect them for continuing the name. It's
like if Hitler had a cousin who made calculators and
in like nineteen forty six he was like, look, man,
I was like, fuck that guy, but I'm not changing
the name. Yeah, it's the t I eighty eight m

(09:51):
So Carl started his small manufacturing firm repairing farm equipment.
He had a little business partner for a while. They
had a foundry where they would produce you know, tool pieces.
But the foundry burnt down and it might have been
a little bit sketchy. I don't know. This happens to
Karl like two or three times, Like his factory will
burn down and he'll get a bunch of insurance money
and make a better factory. But also this is night

(10:15):
like the early nineteen hundreds, so I'm not surprised that
a bunch of German foundries are burning down. It's yeah,
ship burned down a lot back in those days. Yeah,
they didn't have fire extinguishers, they didn't believe in wind.
You know, it was a different time. Um. So at
the time that Joseph was born, Carl employed seven workers
and was probably what you'd call upper middle class, starting

(10:35):
to verge on wealthy. Joseph's mother was the formidably named
while Burga Mangola. And with a name like that, you
know you're talking about a tough customer. Well, yeah, oh
for sure. Now she was three years older than her
husband and from a well off family in Gunsberg, and

(10:56):
as a result of being rich and very very ang
grief she had kind of no fucks to give. Decades later,
Joseph would describe his father as good natured and soft hearted,
but his mother as determined and forceful. And you know,
periodically she would have to come in and like work
the factory when her husband wasn't there or whatever, and
like biographers will note, like all of his employees were

(11:18):
fucking terrified of her. I don't think this has any
bearing on the man Mangela becomes, but it's fun context.
So Carl and Walburga's firstborn baby had died a couple
of days after being born, and so when Joseph came out,
I think a year or so later and was healthy,
he was celebrated by his whole family. In writings years later,
Joseph would describe his early childhood as a secure, full home,

(11:42):
surrounded by extended family and hired help who all nourished
and obsessed over him. During the first three years of
his life, he was joined by two younger brothers, Carl
and Aloise. Just you know, whenever you I come on
this show and you talk about like Nazis, I'm always
waiting for like more of the like at home, like trauma,

(12:03):
like you know, early childhood trauma to like explain stuff,
and I think consistently that's almost never been the case. Yeah,
and that just that bums me out more than Yeah,
it's interesting. We just did Coco Chanelle, who came from
like a nightmare background, maybe like the most difficult childhood
of any person we've ever talked about on this show.

(12:23):
And we were talking during that about like, how often
is it with these monsters that they have like some horrible,
horrible childhood versus you know not And honestly, I think
the worst of them tend to grow up and reasonably
secure homes. You know Hitler. Hitler's dad was kind of
a dick, although I don't think exceptionally for the age.
They were very poor though his mom was sick, but

(12:44):
she loved him, like he grew up with like love
and a family who cared about him. That's just night
not a not that doesn't seem to have much of
a protective effect from being one of history's greatest monsters.
A lot of loving homes produce war criminals. I'm just
trying to figure out how to raise my daughter. Yeah,
you know, whatever I need to do to make her

(13:05):
not do race science, I'll do it, and if it
means being more strict, I guess I'll have to do it.
Oh no, no, I mean the answer is I think
nobody knows. Nobody knows how to not make war criminals,
which is why we have so many of them. Yeah, um,
I don't. Maybe like if she ever considers doing a
war criminal, like get one of those like little little

(13:26):
spray bottles and like right in the knees, like like
a cat. Like. No, yeah, exactly, don't do that. No,
no ethnic cleansing her as she's trying to measure a skull. No, no, no.
So Joseph's family was conservative and Catholic, so that may
be a bit of a red flag. Though um Norman Stone,
who's an Oxford professor who analyzed Joseph's memoirs on his

(13:49):
own life, later has claimed that quote respect rather than affection,
seems to have ruled the household. M and Gerald Posner,
who wrote an early positive, entertailed biography of Mangla, to
embrace this view of Mangola's early life that like the
family was secure but not warm. He wrote, the relationship
between his parents did not improve the emotional austerity of

(14:11):
the Mangola home. They were known as a quarrelsome pair.
Joseph wrote bitterly of his father as a cold figure
and of his mother as not much better at loving,
although he came to admire her energy and decisive nature
for the early parts of his life. And Nanny, called Monica,
fulfilled the dominant maternal role, coaxing it at times, intimidating
Joseph into holding fast the Catholic faith for his parental legacy.

(14:31):
At last, Mangola was grateful. In his autobiography, he wrote,
one could feel flattered that the family tradition going back
generations was continued with the name of the father of Christ, Joseph.
And this is you know, it's weird, because that seems
to be like him saying, well, it was kind of
a cold relationship. It wasn't very loving. Some of Mangola's
own writings contradicts that, and David Marwell, who wrote a

(14:53):
better biography of Mangola, I think than Posner, tempers this
attitude because he really does emphasize he has a big family.
He seems to be very much wanted as a kid um,
he has a lot of resources poured into him. Obviously,
no childhood is perfect. The fact that he's deeply cared for,
and that his parents could be distant and stern can
both coexist. You know, they're fucking German. Yeah, they're they're German,

(15:15):
right Like, yeah, this sounds like default German parents. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and it's like that's how you say I
love you? Yeah, way, yeah, I remember talk I brought that.
Bring this guy up. One of the Nazis that i've
one of the old school Nazis, former Nazis that I
talked to, you know earlier in my life was a

(15:36):
guy who'd been in the Hitler youth as a kid,
Warranted when he was fourteen, and he would talk about
like his family life, and one of the stories he
would tell is that like and he's he framed. This
is a pretty common kind of thing, is you know,
the father in Prussian culture in particular, was like the
dictator of the family. This was actually a big aspect
of kind of the way the Nazis talked about how
the state should work. The father is the dictator of

(15:58):
the family, and the father follows the fearer in a
way that's very much like that, right, right, this is
the Fatherland, I get it. Yeah, And so he was like, well,
a couple of times a week when we would have
an egg, because eggs were hard to come by, we
would all sit around the table and watch us my
father ate the entire egg. And that was like a
thing we did as a family. You're going to watch

(16:22):
me eats a hard boiled egg alone. Imagine less salt.
Imagine this egg is the frontier of Poland and we
must crack it. Friends of West Jesus, I love I
love like dogging your family like that, just like watch

(16:44):
me eat the egg. You gotta watch me eat this egg.
You gotta learn respect. You know, one day you'll be
the father eating the eggs, not sharing eggs and your
family incredible stuff. You want some say, are you kidding
biens America. We are coming back around to the age
of eggs and short supply. So the same year that

(17:07):
Joseph was born, Carl bought his first Bins automobile. He
was well respected as a boss due to the fact
that he was willing to get his hands dirty. He
put in long hours. He seems to have been like
a reasonably like easygoing guy, so I think his workers
generally liked him. In nineteen fourteen, when Carl was or
when Joseph was just three. A disastrous sandwich run ended

(17:28):
with a habsburg and shortly dying, and shortly thereafter a
war that destroyed much of Western Europe. Carl's workforce had
ballooned to about thirty men by this point, but the
war takes Carl away from his child in business, and
he spends the next two years serving at the front.
Joseph's mother had to take over for her husband, but
that actually did not go badly for the family. World

(17:49):
War One is terrible for everyone else in Germany, but
the the mangel Is kind of do great because under
her leadership, their firm gets awarded a bunch of government contracts.
They're making military vehicles and carts and ship for the army.
Carl returns after two years at the front because the
firm has gotten so much bigger that like the government's like,

(18:10):
we need you running your company rather than fighting. Um.
Over the course of the warriors, the Mangela family business
triples in size and becomes one of the largest employers
in the city of Gunsberg. Um. So everyone else spins
World War One starving and uh desperate, but the Mangels
get rich. Um, Yeah, that's that's good. He ate. Oh

(18:32):
he was having. He was having three four eggs a week,
sometimes matt making making, all the goons of Gunsberg watching.
When the fighting stopped, Carl led a seamless pivot for
his company back to the production of farming equipment, and
by the early nineteen twenties it was the third largest
threshing company in Germany. Um and if you know Germans,

(18:52):
they loved a thresh, big thresh colture, thistles, thistle threshles.
Absolutely so Mangola was now Gunsberg's largest employer, and Joseph's
family was the first family in a growing city. Of course,
the twenties were good for more than just threshing. They
also yielded a bumper crop of fascists. Karl was not

(19:14):
quite a fascist early on, but he was a wealthy conservative,
and so he was not very far from the fascist
side there canabis maybe Yeah, he was fash curious, you know.
And I'm gonna quote now from mar Well's Unmasking The
Angel of Death. Mangela's father was at least at some
point a member of the German National People's Party. He

(19:37):
was not then a supporter of the Nazi Party, as
suggested by some whose site his having made one of
his factory buildings available to Hitler for a campaign event
in October thirty two. In fact, Carl first joined the
Nazi Party in May of nineteen thirty three, only after
it gained power in connection with his own bid for
a seat on the city council, which had eluded his
prior attempts in nineteen twenty four and nineteen twenty nine.
According to historian Znezoff Uh, Carl Mangela's political aspirations were

(20:02):
less ideological than grounded in his desire to influence the
local business climate and the local Gunsberg. Nazi Party officials
accused him of purchasing his seat through a generous contribution,
so he is he is not an ideological Nazi. He's like,
I want to have Hitler speak at my factory because
it will help me like get a tax break later on,
Like I can I can work my way into the

(20:23):
city council. No, yeah, it is kind of insane to
me to like go Nazi just to be like the
president of the Chamber of Commerce, you know what I mean.
I mean, that's that's like twenty percent of the Nazi Party. Yeah,
Like it's a city and it's the twenty percent who
had all the money. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, you could.

(20:43):
We can say something about the way various business associations
and special economic districts are kind of like uh, reservoirs
for fascism in the modern American context. These are the
people pushing to put a lot of homeless folks in
camps and stuff. Um. And how a lot of Carl
Mengelas are still out there. Um, so that's good stuff anyway. Yeah,

(21:05):
the Nazis. The Nazis get electoral power in Weimar thanks
in large part to the fact that people like Carl
are there to help fund them. Um. And also people
like Carl, these upright businessmen who are not like wild
eyed Nazi mystics, right, they're not shouting all of the
crazy shit. So normal conservatives are like, well, Carl's now
with the Nazis. So I guess maybe they're okay, you

(21:27):
know he's yeah, Um, look at all the eggs he eats. Yeah,
so he's this guy's got money, he's eating all the eggs.
Maybe there's something maybe this Hitler guys gonna take us
some good places. Um. So for his part, Joseph's affluence
allowed him to avoid all of the traumas of the
era he was raised in. You know, the Wimar years

(21:49):
are a tumultuous period for most Germans. He is not
ever starving, His family is not ever dealing with like
the inflation hits them too, but it's not causing them
to be unable to pay for things that they need. Um, yeah,
like eggs and so he has a happy childhood. His
family tends to recall him as a sunny and fun
loving child. Um. He liked to ride horses. His favorite

(22:10):
way to help out the family business was to pull
company transports away from the railroad on his draft horse.
Very early, he's he's doing railroad shit, which is unfortunate. Yeah,
he was just like, you know, I don't know what
it is about trains, but I just just feel drawn
to him. Yeah. So, Matt, this is gonna be a

(22:33):
bleak story, but I have some good news for you.
I have some really good news for you. This is
gonna make everything a lot easier for us because it no,
it's it's a nickname. Joseph Mengela has a nickname, and
his nickname is Beppo, which is Italian for Giuseppe or
Joseph and also is why the Bucca to Beppo chain

(22:57):
of Italian restaurants, which is part of A proud Ash's
culinary conditioner, is named that they're named in his honor.
You can look it up. Yeah, well, Buca Beppo literally
means Beppo's hole, which is referring to Joseph Mangela's throat
because he loved pasta so much. Look it up. Look
it up. Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. Yeah,

(23:19):
he was a throat coat, you know, proto throat Buca
de Beppo. When you're here, you're a Nazi. A lot
of people don't know this. Every thousand dollars you spend
at Bucca de Beppo restaurants buys a sea mine to
blow up a transport taking migrants from the north coast
of Africa to Italy. I think guarantee. Yeah, so did

(23:42):
we did we succeed in getting that big, big Beppo
sponsorship Yet for some reason I haven't heard back. Well,
maybe Olive Garden will take us one. I mean, we go.
You gotta keep trying. I mean, they have such big
plates of pasta, massive flots of bust, but do it

(24:05):
in front of the jewel So Bepo was a gifted student.
He was never quite top of his class, which is
also a thing you see with a lot of these
like Nazi functionaries, where like they do okay in school,
but they're never quite the best. That's one of the
things Nazism offers people who feel like they should have Yeah,
I feel I did okay, but I feel like i

(24:27):
should have done better based on the fact that I'm white.
The Nazis will make me feel special exactly. Yeah, these students,
people think you all, I don't know, seconds tier joins
the Nazis, and we'll convince you that. Nah, you deserve
to be in the first tier. Yeah, well we'll give

(24:47):
you a chance to conduct the invasion of Russia and yeah,
because you deserve to get better grades. So he was
a he likes music. One of the things he does
when he's a little kid is he writes a airy
tale to put on for the benefit of a local orphanage. Yeah,
he's going to have a lot of stories that involve
orphanages over the next few years. Yeah. Yeah, less nice

(25:09):
than others mostly, Yeah, a couple. So he was as
community oriented as was pretty normal for a German kid
from his class. In those days, he joins the Red
Cross as a volunteer. He's in the gross Deutsche Jugenbund,
which is a boy Scouts analog that was pretty fascist.
He eventually becomes the leader of his town's Yugenbund chapter,

(25:29):
which consisted of sixty boys and thirty girls. So, hey,
you know they're at least a mixed gender. That's good.
Look at that. Yeah, you know, good for you, Yugen Boond. Yeah,
maybe they'll be all right. Yeah. So Joseph would later
reminisce over one of the Solstice celebrations that he organized
for the Yugen Boond and oh boy, Matt quote, we

(25:50):
were proud of our big solstice fire, which blazed into
the heavens on a ridge opposite the hometown, announcing that
a small group of boys and girls today celebrated the
Solstice with fervent thoughts and desires in their hearts to
awaken and arouse the people of their homeland to the
holy struggle of liberation from the shackles of the nefarious
Versailles Treaty. The fame should the flames should liberate us

(26:10):
and illuminate our way. They should warm us with the
love of our great people. And of its high culture,
and they should incinerate all discord among us Germans. Look,
I brought punch speaking like this, people going to make smalls.
But now things have gotten died. So this was a
bun file by this guy talking about it dest So yeah,

(26:36):
I should note that the hugen Bound did not accept Jews, because,
as Joseph would explain later in his diary, the quote
characteristic qualities of the German people could not be expressed
if there was alien incrustation allowed to flourish. Yeah, they
can't say the K word. Yeah, that's literally just like,
oh she's a Jews came. Also, we can't tell our

(26:59):
killer Joe. Yeah. Now you could look at this and say, like, ah,
obviously he was going to grow into a Nazi, but
historians will note that, like this is pretty normal German
anti Semitism, Like this, this is pretty normal for the
people who don't become Nazis. Like the fact that this
is a part of his his upbringing. Obviously it influences
the Nazi he becomes. But we shouldn't pretend like he

(27:20):
was being directed into fascism. It was more that like
this was like all over the fucking place, people were
racist as out right. Yeah, you can't just look at Yeah,
it was just part of the norm. It was the normal.
Everyone was. There's communists who have this childhood right in
this period, people who grow up to be communist who
who have experiences like this. It's not uncommon. Um. Obviously

(27:43):
those people often did a much better job of getting
past it. But like he has a pretty normal upbringing
racism wise, Um, you hand to Jews the normal amount
just hate Jews, normal amount. Yeah, yeah, fine, I can
live with the normal amount. Well yeah, maybe put a

(28:05):
pin in that one man. So, given that this was
the very early nineteen hundreds, Joseph's young life also had
its requisite brushes with death. When he was six, Beppo
fell into a rain barrel and very nearly drowned. Um, comrade, comrade,
anti fascist rain barrel. Tried it shried. How do you

(28:27):
fall into a rain barrel? Beppo? Just a flag with
a rain barrel that says, I tried the fascist rain.
It did its best. It did more than us, you know,
it did more to try to stop Mangola. Um. And
it's going to this rain barrel Incident's gonna linger with

(28:48):
him for a while because he gets a case of rain. Yeah.
So he winds up sick after this and kind of
like a long series of illnesses leads him to getting
steel myelitis, which is a bone marrow inflammation. Yeah, and
so he's going to be after this rain barrel incident,
and like some incidents that come after it, he's going

(29:10):
to be like a really sick kid all told. Though
he's on what you might call the precocious gifted kid
track in school. He earns really good grades in primary school,
kind of average grage, and his secondary school because he's
absent so often because he's sick, he gets kidney infections
all because of the barrel. And anyway, all of the

(29:32):
health problems leads to his family sitting down and being like, well,
we wanted him to run the company, but he's kind
of like always dying, So maybe maybe we give his
little brother the company and he can just figure his
own shit out if he ever stops dying. That's the
decision his very German family makes, and so Aloys is

(29:53):
groomed to lead the family firm, and Joseph, as he
nears graduation, is forced to find something new to do
with his life. It isn't right about this in detail.
He seems to have been kind of ashamed of this.
I think this really fucked him up, and to be honest,
it fucked a lot of us up because we would
all prefer Joseph Mangola Farming Machine manufacturiously dude on one
of the greatest mistakes ever is now just giving him

(30:16):
control of the company. Yeah, let me invented some nice
combination have tractors or shit, you know, yeah, yeah, it
would have been fine. Questions and at plants at the
same time. The combination machine you need. Um, speaking of
combination machines, you know, Mangola Machine Works makes an incredible

(30:39):
range of domestic plows, of threshing machines, of mowers. Um,
you know, why don't we why don't we have our
sponsors at Mangola just kind of cut in here and
throwing ahead. They get a promo code for you. Um,
so if you want twenty percent off of Mangola products,
just enter promo code. Not that Mangola. Wow, ah, we're back,

(31:09):
so good stuff. So, as he's kind of nearing graduation
and trying to figure out what he's going to do
with his life now that the thing he'd prepared for
as a child was not a possibility for him anymore.
Joseph thought back off into his favorite high school teacher, Uri,
a gifted educator who, to the detriment of all mankind,

(31:29):
succeeded in sparking in Joseph a lifelong love of the sciences. Um, again,
never teach children. It's a horrible idea. This is this
is why I'm against women in stem because I don't
want them to become Mangolas. It's that simple that it, Um,

(31:50):
and no one in science know. This is why we
need to put more lead in the gasoline. Yeah, make
it impossible for people to do science, and we'll solve
all of our problems. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you know, we'll
just have plagues every now and then. But a plague's
nobody's fault, you know. Yeah, that's God. Yeah, that's God.

(32:13):
He's probably angry at us because we didn't pray enough
for rain or something. You know, who knows. Maybe we
gotta up now, yea, Now we're sacrificing people again. It
all comes back to child sacrifice, one way or the other.
So Yuri teaches him to love science, which would prove
to be a horrible mistake, and as he ends the
nears the end of his primary school days, which the
Germans called gymnasium um. Joseph's favorite subjects are all hard science.

(32:38):
He especially loved zoology and biology, but his favorite course
of study was the budding new discipline of anthropology. Oh boy, yeah,
I'm gonna quote now from David Marwell's Mangola. In April
nineteen thirty, he passed his abatur the high school exams
with a promising but an exceptional grade. His father had

(32:59):
counseled him that counted was what one achieved, not what
one set out to achieve. Initially, Joseph considered becoming a dentist,
since he was convinced it would be very profitable. There
was not even one dentist in my native town. But
after discussions with his school friend Julius Diceback, a young Mangelt,
decided dentistry was too specialized. He opted instead from medicine,
with an emphasis on anthropology and human genetics. So I

(33:22):
can study the whole range of medicine. Thus, Joseph, Yeah, yeah,
that's good. That. Yeah, don't go specific. You don't want
to be a specialist. You want to get real broad.
And yeah, you want to get so broad that you're
just taking wild guesses based on Yeah, you want to
convince yourself that you have a much deeper understanding than
you do, because you you skimmed a couple of textbooks

(33:45):
about like very history and race and ear shape. That's
going to be good for you. So part of why
he's drawn to this so much is that no one
in his family had done anything like this. There weren't
any PhDs in his family. There weren't any scientists in
his family. He brags to his friend des Back. My
family will be very impressed when I become the very

(34:06):
first Mangelis scientist. Yes, people will remember the name doctor Mangela.
He's not wrong. There is a bunch of shit he
writes when he's young about how I want people to
remember my name and mission accomplished. He didn't, buddy. So
this is where we're going to have to have the
first of a couple of detours, because you can't tell

(34:27):
the story of Joey Mang's properly without telling the story
of anthropological sciences in the late eighteen hundreds in early
nineteen hundreds and how they became wedded to nationalist politics
in the post war German state. The origins of race science,
as Mangela came to do, it actually start back in
like the seventeen hundreds. One of the earliest developments in

(34:49):
what will become Mangalis field happened in seventeen twenty seven
when the Earl of Boulanvillier attempted to make a scientific
argument that the French nobility were descended from a superior race,
some long headed Nordics. The French peasantry, he argued, were
just descended from the Gaulls that Caesar had beaten, and
thus the rule of the French royal family was enshrined

(35:09):
in immutable biological law. Wait, hold on, are you trying
to tell me that science was just used in order
to justify royal nobility and king's rules. Yeah. Yeah, it's
kind of like the root of a lot of genetics science.
In addition to the stuff that was like I want

(35:31):
to see if we can crossbreed peas, which is you know,
groundbreaking work, was also like, oh maybe this will allow
us to find another reason why we should never, never
not be in charge. Well, you gotta take you good
with the bad. Yeah, yeah, that's really the history of
genetics in a nutshell. Yeah, you gotta take good with
the bad. I mean, you know, you gotta assure genocides

(35:52):
here and there. But also seedless watermelon, also seedless watermelons. Exact. Look,
you get some seedless watermelons, you get you know, hundreds
of thousands of people being burnt to a crisp and Auschwitz.
Who's to say, you know, who's to say? And if
you know, if you think and dwell on that and
you feel bad, smoke some sense, Amelia, dude. Yeahs. Seedless

(36:15):
weed also bred using the great science of Galton or Lynette,
yeah whatever. I think it was Galton who did that shit.
So his argument the Earl of Boulognevillier or whatever did
not spread that far beyond France, but the work of
early naturalists would provide a shot in the arm for
future rich assholes looking to make similar arguments to justify subjugation.

(36:37):
One of the first scientists in this field who's not
a bastard, was the father of modern taxonomy and binomial nomenclature,
Careless Linnaeus, who you probably heard about in middle school
or high school. Careless obviously not a Nazi, he saw,
you know. And in fact, there's some really progressive attitudes
towards what he thought about the world. He saw humanity
as another species in the animal kingdom, which, given the

(36:58):
way Christians talked about animals in this period of time,
was a pretty noteworthy belief. Um Linnaeus noted that there
were many subspecies of other mammals, like dogs and cats.
You know, you've got wolves, and you've got coyotes, and
you've got all these different an I don't know if
he used that specific example, but that kind of stuff,
and he was like, well, you should probably categorize humans
the same way, which, given the era of science he's in,

(37:21):
is not a bad thing, but it's gonna cause some
problems later because he divides the human race into four
subspecies European, American, Asiatic, and African. Um. I don't think
careless means much by it, but it's gonna become a problem. Yeah.
I mean, you know, he tried his best, but I
gotta say that classification is a bit careless. Oh oh sorry, Wow,

(37:49):
sounds like all right, move on, No, you know what,
that's a T shirt right there. Um, yeah, we'll figure
it out all of that, put it all in a shirt.
So Linnaeus is a Swede, and one of his most
influential colleagues is a dutch Man, the anatomy professor Petrus Camper.
Camper spent way too much time and Linnaeus again groundbreaking scientist.

(38:10):
Uh Camper is a little sillier because one of the
things this guy does is he spends a shitload of
time looking at old statues like that the Greeks had
made and being like, God, why are these people so hot?
They must this must be this must be evidence that
they are like the master race and we've all we're
all like like descendants of them whose blood has been

(38:33):
dirtied by race mixing. Is kind of just described the
mindset of like so many times it's it's all it's yeah, exactly,
all of these like traditional vibes, Twitter accounts, They're like,
look at the statue, Why do we look like this anymore?
It's just what that's a normal penis side. It's very

(38:55):
funny because like a thousand years from now, after you know,
the nuclear or the mushroom plague or whatever gets us,
some scientist is going to find old copies of US
magazine and start doing a racial taxonomy. There's four subspecies.
There's the Beyonce, there's the Pascal, there's the Cruise, and
there's like yeah, no, seriously, they're just going to be

(39:19):
like there were no flaws anywhere in their skin. Sometimes
they had no belly button, which may have been a
rush mistake. I'm just I'm just imagining, like year four thousand,
Nazis like marching half naked under a banner of post malone,
just looking at a bunch of fucking like old vines,

(39:44):
being like you know, Zimaster race of z time sometimes
had this, Uh, they had dog ears and when they
would open their mouth a tongue would roll out. Yeah,
and as they would have zipuch of flies around their eyes.
So future mixing has destroyed us future Catholic stained glass release.
Instead of like having the halos above their head, they're

(40:05):
just all yasified, salsified Jesus. It was seventeen ninety five
that we first get the term Caucasian, coined by Johann Blumenbach,
who was, of course a German. Blumenbach used the term
to quote describe the variety of mankind that originated on

(40:28):
the southern slopes of Mount Caucasus along eastern Europe's eastern border.
He described Caucasians as the original race and the most beautiful.
Now okay, well yeah, here we go. Yep, we're off
to the races now, man, let's do it. None of
this can be separated by from the Atlantic slave trade,
which is starting to roar at the time, or from

(40:48):
the ongoing genocides in the Americas, both of which cry
out for a scientific, rational explanation that lets enlightenment Europeans
feel good about the crimes against humanity there committee right,
It would be one thing to be like, I don't know, man,
look back at the Romans, look back at like fucking Hanschi,
look at people forever. We always are murdering and raping
and and slaving each other. We're just like that. But

(41:10):
Europeans don't want to do that. They want to be
like no, but we're liberals. Yeah, we want to there's
a scientific reason we should be doing. Yeah, we read
philosophy and we understand, you know, how precious the human
soul is. Yeah, but I think science as those guys
are not humans. So yeah, kill yeah. Yeah. It's really
easier for someone else to make my drinks for me.

(41:32):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna write a lot of books exactly, dude,
that's why you is just to justify exploiting every person.
This is like fully half of genetic science. Yes, um so.
In the eighteen hundreds a generation of scientists arose that
took the start Bloominbach and Camper and Linaeus had made

(41:54):
and extended their conclusions much further. Samuel Morton theorized in
the mid eighteen hundreds that intelligent was linked to brain size,
declaring that white people had larger skulls and with a
superior yeah this is okay, He's like, this is like
one of the one of the precursors to phrenology for sure. Yea.
Morton's work is quoted and shared extensively by journalists and

(42:17):
teachers in the era, and it becomes accepted as settled
science by a lot of white people. Now, there was
disagreement even in this period by principled men of science
like Friedrich Tiedeman, who is also a German. To be fair, like,
the Germans are on both sides of this fighting against
it as well, and Teteman, using the very best scientific
methods of the day, tries to replicate Morton's research about

(42:40):
like you know, well, obviously white people have the biggest brains,
and he can't repeat it. Repeatability as a cornerstone of
the scientific method, the whole thing, Yes, it's a big
part of it. Yeah, and he can't do it. So
he's like, I'm gonna quote actually from a write up
and facing history that kind of summarizes this. He also
found no evidence for the racial hierarchy, a kind of
racial lad on which Caucasians always stood at the top

(43:02):
and Africans at the bottom, that Morton had claimed to uncover.
Tetaman's work did not attract much attention. It was largely
ignored or dismissed as unscientific. Um. But I don't think
we should I think, like, as much shit as we're
going to rightfully give the German scientific establishment this episodes,
we should note there are always guys like Teetaman being like,

(43:22):
fuck this shit, what are you talking about? People are
like idiots, like not true, and he's not right, yeah,
and he's not the whole idea of like, you know,
on its face, it is just the dumbest, funniest thing
that these guys are scientists and they're going, oh, the
bigger brain may make more smart and I'm just like,

(43:43):
what the fuck are you? Like, it's like the same
reason that people, you know, green like movies like The
Meg where they're like, what if shark big? Yeah, your
shark better shark. It's like very stupid. You gotta be
kind of you gotta you gotta be kind of a
dumb guy to be like yeah, big brain. Yeah. A
lot of it's just like you know, the the under

(44:06):
like this kind of belief that I think a lot
of people, particularly people who are kind of inherently conservative,
have that, Like it's uncomfortable thinking that there might be
other equally valid ways to live that are also require
an equal but different level of development and scientific understanding.
One of my favorite examples of this, there's a great story.
There's this place in God it's somewhere in the Amazon.
I forget exactly which modern day country it's in, but

(44:29):
it's generally known to anthropologists archaeologists. Is the lost city
of z that like they were in like the late
eighteen hundreds, I think early nineteen hundreds, a bunch of
these you know, exploration age Western scientists are always trying
to find because I think they're supposed to be gold
there or some shit. And one of the guys who's
who's looking for at the most, does like three trips there,

(44:50):
and every one of them goes the same way. He
enters the Amazon with like one hundred men and like
six of them come out a year and a half later,
and everyone else has died horribly and I'll like his
third t been there. They're all starving, they're on the
edge of death, they're sick, and they finally run into
a group of natives who are like willing to talk
with them. And the natives are like, you guys, look
like shit, what's going on? And they're like this this

(45:12):
jungle is a green desert. There's no food at all,
and they like break like this. They've grabbed this plant
and break it in half and like toss it in
a pond and a bunch of fish float up to
the top because the plant was full of a nurotoxin
that they knew. You just dumped this in the water,
stunts the fish. Then you just grab them. They're like, look,
there's all sorts of food around here. What's wrong with
you guys? Have you all just been dying and not

(45:35):
not knowing this? Oh? Yeah, yeah, because yeah, I mean yeah,
they had spent all of their time writing books about
skull shape, whereas these people had spent their time figuring
out how to turn their home into a fucking giant
grocery store. Um. I don't know, I know what I
find more impressive, but um, I mean Europeans do other

(45:59):
stuff too, right, They make they make boats so that
those are cool. Um. So that's how we get the
movie master and commanders. So who's to say, right, you know, true,
who's to say discount that that was a triumph? That
was a triumph? Um that's occurring around this period of time. Um.
And also, unfortunately, the scientists on that boat, the doctor

(46:20):
guy probably had some race science books on that boat
with him. Like, I mean, I'm afraid it's unavoidable. They
have all sorts of books you can't so yeah, you
can't fall to them. Um, I don't know, I've I've
only read one of the books that that movie is
based on. Good movie though, So Teetaman is not the
only guy who's pushing back scientifically on the arguments of

(46:40):
kind of scientific bigots in his period. Um. Now to
be noteworthy the guys who are like arguing against some
of this early race science. Their science is often bad too, right,
the fact that they are like see properly, that their
colleagues are making bad arguments doesn't mean their arguments are
scientifically flawless. A good example of this is the seventh

(47:01):
President of Princeton, Samuel Smith, who speculated that black people
were human beings just like white people, and they were
just black because a large freckle had spread over their
entire body due to sun exposure. It's close, Okay, it's melanie.
His heart is in the right place. Yeah, I get

(47:24):
where he's yeah, yeah, he's not almost there. Yeah, he's
got pieces of it. So doctor Benjamin Rush meanwhile argued
that all babies are born white and that black skin
was the result of mild leprosy. Now this kind of
shows how sloppy the scientific method is because, like, I
don't know, you can just look at a baby, Like

(47:46):
that's pretty easy to disprove. You can just look at
a baby, but you know whatever, as a general rule,
the scientists arguing that they were perceived. So basically you
have kind of two groups here. You have the scientists
arguing there is a racial hierarchy and these are different subspecies, right,
and you have the scientists are arguing that like all
of the differences that we see are the result of

(48:06):
either nurture or environmental exposure, not immutable characteristics. And the
ones who are making that argument, even when their science
is bad, are at least less likely to espouse racism
to justify entrenched power structures. Now that doesn't mean it
doesn't happen, because a decent chunk of like the people
arguing for slavery and the eighteen hundreds are being like, oh, eventually,
will you raise them up to be our equals. It's

(48:28):
just we have to keep them enslaved until then. So
that is like, you know, there's a lot of different
things being said in this period. Yeah, so there's a
lot of cool stuff happening in early race science. One
of my favorite guys here is Lord Munbado, a Scottish
philosopher who believed that he's one of these guys who

(48:49):
it's all about environmental exposure and what like nurture and stuff.
And his big argument is that like, one day we
will train chimpanzees to be integrated into society, like we'll
have chimpanzees in parliaments. Like God, I wish he'd been right, honestly,
I like where his brain's gone with that. I wish
he'd been right, Yeah, because I mean, they do a

(49:11):
better job than those clowns and Congress, that's right, I
mean I would, I would. I would vote for any
living chimpanzee over almost any living Congress. Probably don't have
to ask the CEO of TikTok if their phones connect
to Wi Fi. No, they're just happy to look at
the dancing lights, you know exactly, they don't. They don't

(49:34):
care about Wi Fi. They're they're chimpanzees and they're not cowards,
and if they really disagree with someone, they will tear
them limb from Oh man, can you imagine if we
had like Congress fights like we had in the eighteen hundreds,
but with a bunch of chimps, would be the number
one that's all I watch. I would just go into
Congress and like, toss a bunch of bananas in the

(49:55):
middle of the floor. Let's get them fighting. I feel
like the champanzees wouldn't go, what are you going to
do about fin stuff? Yeah? Right? Embarrassing? No, no, it
is embarrassing. We would have a lot more land devoted
to banana cultivation. Um. I feel like they don't actually
eat bananas and I heard that at some point, but

(50:16):
fuck it. Like, look, whenever we get something like this wrong,
it gives some beautiful redator a chance to be like, well, actually,
and God, God bless you. I just want to make
you people happy. So yeah, you should do all of
these scientists now though, you know, Sophie Robert, Yes, we're back.

(50:45):
Oh sorry, I was waiting for a speaking of bananas
or something. Yeah. So there's a lot of scientists in
this period, the kind of anti race science, guys who
believe that all of the differences between men and women
in between different races that they believe existed would be
reduced by social reform and legislation. And you can see
kind of evidence of this in the French Revolution, these

(51:07):
ideas of liberty, egality, and fraternity, the fact that it
comes to like increased civil rights to Jewish people in
the French Empire. These are all results of that intellectual tradition.
But progressive ideals like this always have their limits, and again,
slave owners would use versions of this argument to justify
aspects of what they were doing. Once slavery falls in

(51:27):
the United States, there's kind of a panic among a
lot of people that race mixing is going to occur
and thus would disastrously water down the potential of the species.
Racial hygiene became a common topic of discussion among medical
professionals in the late eighteen hundreds, and the two countries
most associated with this movement are the United States and Germany. Wow,

(51:48):
that's so shocking. Oh my god. Yeah, and I think, yeah, yeah,
that's not my America. Guy, My Americas and made up
of all of the things, yeah, of my morals. So
my America, you know, doesn't have stockrooms full of skulls
of people that came from somewhere. Not in my America's

(52:13):
end of milk and honey. You know, we'll talk. We
have talked about race science in the United States and
number of times. But right now we're getting back to Germany.
So the Kaiser's Germany had started to invest in research
on racial heredity a few years prior to World War One.
Actually the year before Joseph Mengela is born, the Reich
Health Office puts together a file on russ and hygiene,

(52:35):
which actually sounds more racist than race hygiene. Yeah, it's
it's much worse than the German Yeah, it's so. It
included studies on population control and papers on racial differences
between Germans and Jews. Now, the kaiser Reich very racist.
This is evidence of that. But when the war comes,

(52:58):
all of this kind of talk of differences it doesn't
go away, but it fades a lot because the Germans
are suddenly like, you know, who dies exactly the same
in front of a machine gun, Jews and Germans, and
we need a lot more of both. If we've got
to get rid of all these allied boets, we'll have
opposable thumbs and a little index finger. They go pp

(53:18):
the Jews and the Germans. We could all do it.
Let's table the racing for a second for a little bit,
figure out how to you know, take over Europe, I
mean kind of Famously, Hitler gets awarded his Iron Cross
in part due to the intervention of his officer, who's
a Jewish Man. Like this is a the kaiser Reich.

(53:39):
A lot of this stuff still exists. It's budding, it's building,
but it's also not like the same as it's going
to be. So as a result, it's during the Weimar
years that things really take a leap forward. In nineteen twenty,
the Prussian Interior Council creates a Council on Racial Hygiene
to discuss how to grow the German population and halt

(54:00):
illegal abortion. While such work always had support from the
right initially at least, there is significant interest among scientists
across the ideological spectrum. And to make that point, I'm
going to quote now from Robert Proctor's book Racial Hygiene Medicine.
Under the Nazis, many racial hygienists supported a kind of
state socialism, whereby a strong central government would direct social

(54:22):
policy towards programs to improve the race. The Society for
Racial Hygiene allied itself with a number of groups advocating
social reform. Conversely, many of those today remembered as progressives
were attracted by the movement to improve the health of
the race. Alfred Grotjohn, for example, today considered the father
of German social medicine and one of the leading architects

(54:42):
of Imar Germany's progressive health reforms, saw racial hygiene as
a legitimate concern of medicine. He was one of those
who defended the use of the term eugenics rather than
racial hygiene, in order to avoid confusion with racist notions
of the political anthropological variety. According to Grotjhon. Racial hygiene
would provide long range preventative medicine for the germ plasm

(55:03):
of humanity that would complement both traditional curative medical care
and concerns for the human physical and social environment provided
by public health and social medicine. Racial hygiene, along with
social hygiene and personal hygiene, was simply one element in
a larger, more comprehensive program of human healthcare. Grow John's
views earned him the respect of more devout Rachel hygienasists.

(55:24):
He was one of the few social hygiensists in the
Weimar Republic willing to advocate compulsory sterilization. He also advocated
for increased powers to commit upwards of a million defective
A socials to psychiatric institutions. After nineteen thirty three, German
theorists there are Nazi racial theorists were able to turn
to grow John as an example of a socialist who
supported strong measures in the field of racial hygiene. So

(55:48):
this is a thing that doesn't get talked about enough.
That is the father of the German welfare state. In
a lot of ways, grow John, and at least in
the healthcare portion of it. He is a social democrat
and he is in favor of committing a million a
social people involuntarily to institutions and sterilizing in mass people
head of views as defective. The same thing as brushing

(56:10):
your teeth. Yeah, it's the same. It's the same as
any kind of hygiene. It's like taking a shower, you know, Yeah,
take a shower, and then you you know, you round
up people. Yeah, you start putting them in buses, camps, trains,
and a lot of it's worth we taught when we
talk about race science because of what happens, and because
of all of the worst crimes are in fact committed
by the Nazis when the right is in power, we

(56:32):
do tend to ignore the fact that eugenics and race
science in Germany are popular everywhere, including with communists. The
idea of a planned genetic future is something that German
communists are going to embrace as well for at least
a period of time. And it's not just a German
help themselves. No, well, it's not just the Germans either.
In nineteen twenty five, the leadings there's a Soviet leading

(56:53):
eugenics journal that publishes translations of German articles on racial
hygiene with positive remarks and partly as a result of this,
Wimar Germany and the Soviet Union establish a joint Institute
for Racial Biology in Moscow between nineteen thirty one and
nineteen thirty eight. There's overlap there with the Nazi years.
There's a period of time and the point that, yeah,

(57:14):
there's some sort of racial element for white people where
they love race science. Yeah, I know how to work
that into my worldview. And it's interesting. I mean, this
is part of there's a bigger story here, which is
like during the thirties, because both are kind of pariah nations,
the Soviet Union and Weimar and the Nazi Germany actually
have a lot going on together. Their militaries trained together,

(57:36):
they do all sorts of like have all sorts of
I mean, this is part of what kind of lays
some of the bones for the Molotov ribbon trop packed.
But race science is not absent from the Soviet Union
in this period. Many people know that the Third reichs
genocidal efforts began with the T four euthanasia program, in
which people who were physically handicapped or seen as feeble

(57:56):
minded were put to death in traveling gas vans. Less
is known that in nineteen twenty eight. It was socialist
doctor Ranier Fetcher who carried out some of the first
sterilizations in German history. He is doing eugenic sterilizations on
his own without any permission. He's like breaking the law
to do this, and he's like a socialist activist. Now,

(58:17):
the point here is not that socialists and Nazis had
the same attitude towards eugenics. It's just that eugenics beliefs
were popular even among socialists and communists. Yeah, obviously the
Nazis are the ones who use these ideas to massacre
twelve million people in the service of race science. I'm
bringing this up because you have to note that when
you're talking about the origins of these ideas that are

(58:38):
accelerated by the Nazis and adopted by them, they are
not controversial among a lot of science scientists, even scientists
who find fascism abhorrent. There's a lot of anti fascist
scientists who nonetheless believe the Nazis are not entirely wrong
about race science. That's the period that we're in. So
probably the most significant development in the early history of

(59:00):
German race science is the establishment of the kaiser Villehelm
Institute for Anthropology, Human Genetics and Eugenics Day Kaiser Permanente,
Kaiser permanente. Yeah, yeah, that's what Kaiser permanente stands for,
the permanent Kaiser. Actually, if they are responsible for your healthcare,
you are legally a servant of the Kaiser. That's how

(59:22):
it works. That's my insurience. Yeah. The Kaiser, by the way,
now is an AI generated creature, because that AI is
really able to go to I was going to do
a hand I was going to do a hand joke,
but you know what, that's not appropriate. Yeah, So that
Kaiser Villehelm Institute gets started in nineteen twenty seven, also
in Prussia, which is kind of the stronghold of militarist

(59:45):
conservatism in Germany. Support for the institute came from the
very top of the Weimar State, though, including the president
of the State Health Office and its chief medical statistician,
Emil Russell, who argued in favor of preventing marriage of
the mentally ill to healthy Germans. This did not occur
in a vacuum. Russell noted that England, Sweden, the United States,
and Norway all had similar institutes doing similar things. When

(01:00:09):
the Kaiser Villehelm Institute opened its doors. Eugene Fisher was
appointed director. He was a nationalist Catholic, but not a
Nazi early on, and in fact, a lot of his
early research is kind of contra to the conclusions the
Nazis are making. One of the things he'll argue is
that hybridization leads to better health in European races. Like
he does a bunch of studies about oh, actually, when

(01:00:31):
you're like when you've got Germans and you know, Slavs
and English and we're all breeding, everything turns out better.
That's one of the things this guy argues. He's kind
of an interesting guy. He One of the things he
notes is that like where it has remained the most pure,
the Nordic race has brought forth no great cultural achievements,
which is very much not a Nazi attitude. Yeah, I

(01:00:52):
love it. Yeah. And that said, he's going to once
the Nazis take power, he's going to stop saying this
ship and start pushing hard, hard core Nazi dogma. And
he's going to bring in a lot of scientists who
are just straight up Nazis. And the most influential of
these is a guy named Otmar von Verschure, who is
a war veteran and a member of the right wing
fry Core paramilitary. He is also a scientist studying genetics

(01:01:16):
and race who is particularly fascinated with twins. Oh boy,
bom bom bomb. Oh god, yeah no, that's not Look,
there's very rarely. Does it end well when people are
fascinated with twins? Yeah, one way or the other. A
lot of fucked up ship comes from that. Yeah, well,

(01:01:36):
Nazi experiments or being weirdly attracted to those beer commercials
exactly good. Yeah, or the double mint ones. So why
people want to fuck twins? It's the it's the it's
incest is going on. So now I'm not into it.
I'm on record. Wow, that's a that's another T shirt.
Yeah yeah, just a picture of your face. I'm not

(01:01:58):
into twins. I'm not into twins, males, mad leam a
statue of you breaking a packet of doublement gum in half.
I'm a big guy. Now, Big reds that's an anti fascist,
it really is. Big Red is literally Stalin's gum of choice.
Now the anarchist gum is, of course, big league chew um. Yeah,

(01:02:23):
look it up. Look it up. So after Hitler takes power,
Fisher you know, starts going hardcore into the Nazi stuff.
He praises the Nazis is the first political movement to
recognize that culture is the product of quote the qualities
of the race that has given rise to and carry
it on that culture. Fisher draws a line between the
Marxists and men of natural science and national socialism when

(01:02:45):
he says the Marxist socialist view concerns itself with the
single individual. We national Socialists, in contrast, concern ourselves with
the family. Now go, there's a there's a Margaret Thatcher
quote that all makes me think about, which is, there's
no such thing as society. There are men and women,
and there are families. But there's probably nothing to that.

(01:03:08):
Probably nothing to that. He's a really relevant Margaret Thatcher
quote when they about Nazi stuff. There really is. But
that's a subject for another day. Let us return to
our buddy, Joe Joe Mingie Pooh, so Joejoe Mengi ming Yeah, yeah,
Joe Joe the Mangola. So the Nazis are not in

(01:03:30):
power when he joins Munich University as a student in
philosophy and the medical schools, but they he's like doing
an anthropology medical kind of thing where he's getting like
his PhD and his MD kind of at the same time.
It's easier to get both back then. So while the
Nazis are not yet in power, race science is humming
right along. When Joseph starts school, the Nazis are the
second largest party in the reich Stock. He would later

(01:03:52):
write about his early impressions of the National Socialist Party.
I was not then old enough to vote. My political
leanings were then, I think, for reasons of family tradition,
national conservative. I had not joined any political organization, though
indeed I was strongly attracted by the program and the
whole organization of the National Socialists. But for the time
being I remained an unorganized private person. But in the

(01:04:14):
long run, it was impossible to stand aside in these
politically stirring times. Should our fatherland not succumb to the
Marxist Bolshevist attack, This simple political concept finally became the
decisive factor in my life. So yeah, it all always
starts with an obsession with anti communism with these guys
really does, and of course Communism is Jewish in their eyes.

(01:04:38):
So wow, one thing leads to another. Oh wow, wow,
good God. Um, yes, jar jar, some people gonna die. Um,
good God, good, good, good God. Matt, why pluggables to plug? Oh,

(01:04:59):
you know the same stuff. You know, if you like
the Sopranos or the Wire and you want to you know,
rewatch it or just listen to guys you know, talk
about it, pod yourself a gun. It is the world's
only the Wire and uh, you know Sopranos podcast. Um, yeah,
so I plug that and um, you know, uh, I'll

(01:05:22):
be all right, this is gonna be a fun one.
I'm very excited, you know, I'm very excited for what's coming.
And uh, I'm gonna just pet my child for a
little bit. Yeah, I'm gonna pet a child too. I'll
go find one. Yeah. I don't know how that wording
is really good for you, buddy. No, So if I
got a net it's fine. Um all right, Well that's

(01:05:44):
gonna do it for us here at at Behind the Bastards.
Um until next time, you know, um, there is it
next time After that comment, fishing net works just as
well on kids. Um. Anyway, repeating it really helps, it
always does. God bless you all. Behind the Bastards is

(01:06:07):
a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool
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