Part One: The Birth of American Fascism

In episode 30, Robert is joined again by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to discuss how fascism started in America. It is a well-established fact that fascism can rise to dominate a democratic nation from relatively humble beginnings. Keep that in mind as we talk about the birth of the American Fascist movement in the United States. Because, more than anything, this is a story about how close the USA came to going down Germany’s path. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello friends, I'm Robert Evans, and this is once again
Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you everything
you don't know about the very worst people in all
of history. Today we're talking about the worst people in
all of history, the Nazis, or rather, we're talking about
how Nazism and fascism got started in America way way
back in the day. And my guests with me for

(00:24):
this debatable topical podcast episode, Cody Johnson, Katie Stole. How
are y'all doing today? You know, living in a fascist country?
You know? Well, I mean of the way they're getting there.
It's like we've got time. It's the national equivalent of
when I was a kid and I would get a

(00:44):
new video game and I would start installing it. I
would know it's going to take like three hours because
my computer wasn't that great, But it's like it's on
its way, right. You find something else to do, sort
of distract. You also keep going into check in is
it done yet? Is it done yet? Exactly? We're doing
the national equivalent of watching Starship Troopers for the thirty
seventh time while we wait for Age of Empires three

(01:05):
to down, and then half the country watch the Starship
Troopers too, and it's like, this is a good idea
for society. I like this. I really like that you
picked Starship Troopers too. I'm sorry you were saying t
o O. I was thinking about the classic sequel to
Starship Troopers. Also, Starship Troopers. Fine film, Fine film. Yeah,

(01:26):
so that's what it's like. Yeah, So have you all
ever wondered what the very first American fascism was, like
how it got here, Like was it a kind of
thing of like you know, got imported from Europe or
like did it it boil up naturally? Like I assumed
just like I mean, the KKK was one of the first.
It's probably proto fascist group. Always just assumed it was
a natural evolution of our shittiness. And I know, like

(01:48):
the Nazis crafted a lot of the policies on some
American policies. Uh yeah, I mean that was more like
they got the idea for how to set up the
zekeland b gas chambers from like you know, Passo we
have for people coming in from Mexico is stationed to
delouse them, and the Nazis were like, oh, with a
couple of modifications, what if. Yeah, so this is more

(02:13):
about ideology and sort of how how fascism? Yeah, it
first crept up in America, So y'all will indulge me,
yea fascism to creep up? Yeah, it's all right, I'm
gonna read you, guys, twenty pages awesome stuff, A horror story.
Twelve years before Adolph Hitler would become Germany's all powerful fewer,
the National Socialist German Workers Party had roughly two thousand members.

(02:37):
So it's a well established fact that fascism can rise
to dominate a democratic nation from relatively humble beginnings. Keep
that in mind as we talked about the birth of
the American fascist movement in the United States, because more
than anything, this is a story about how close the
USA came to going down Germany's path. The first fascist
government on Earth was formed in late nineteen twenty two
when Benito Mussolini and his Black Shirts marched on Rome
with the stated goal of bringing order to an Italy

(02:59):
that seemed on the verge of political chaos and collapse.
Interesting King Victor Emmanuel allowed the needed to form a government,
and fascists around the world were electrified by the seeming
endorsement of their quirky little belief system. And you got
to remember, when we talked about this fascism wasn't like
now seventy million people died, and so we're like, oh boy,
that point they're like fascist fascist, Maybe this works. I

(03:23):
feel I feel these thinks. It would be nice if
just one angry guy we could do everything I can
hurt all the people I hate. That seems efficient. Yeah,
I will not bother imagining the logical conclusion of these beliefs,
but I'm into it. So like Pizza and the Chef
kiss Jessy. Fascism first came to America courtesy of the Italians,

(03:43):
or at least the first fascist group in America was
formed by Italian Americans. They started organizing in New York
and Philadelphia mainly in nineteen one, which is, you know,
when Mussolini's party had started to gain power in Italy,
but before they were totally in charge. Mussolini's government was
instantly more interested in using the fascist movement in the
Amica to further Italian foreign policy goals. He didn't seem
to care much about actually bringing up fascism in the USA.

(04:06):
Dogs get angry when you talk about fashion because they're good. Uh.
In nineteen Mussolini sent Count Ignazio theyon de ravel to
the United States to organize several disparate and quarrelsome groups
of Italo fascists into the Fascist League of North America.
Yeah cool, this is the first American fascist organization. These
guys primarily positioned themselves as against quote atheism, internationalism, free love, communism,

(04:30):
and class hatred. Ok. Yeah, I will not comment on
any similarities. Yeah, we'll do that again. So now was
a kind of a banner year in fascism. It was
also the year Hitler spent in prison putting the finishing
touches on mind camp. And it was the year that
the National Socialist Twutnia Association was founded in Detroit, Michigan.

(04:54):
So the first American Nazis Detroit, shout out to Detroit.
Not positive, like a Detroit like that, Detroit. Not super surprising, No, no,
nothing superio. Now, the n s t A pledged open
support of the German Nazi Party. Most of its members

(05:16):
were recent immigrants to America from Germany, actual Nazis who
had fled in the wake of the Beer Hall putch.
So they wouldn't go to prison for trying to overthrow
the German government. Uh huh. The n s t A
was mainly a way to raise funds for Hitler's Nazi
Party from sympathetic German Americans, so at this point, neither
of the actual growing fascist movements in Germany or Italy
was interested in trying to convert Americans to fascism. When

(05:37):
the Italian f l n A proved troublesome, Mussolini's government
ordered it disbanded in ninety nine, leaving its twelve thousand
five members and a d branch offices to find some
other reactionary political organization. Good news, it was about to
be a ton Yeah. I know you. I could see
you were worried about the wide eyed waiting for that.
Now European fascists were actually something of a hindrance the

(06:00):
early efforts of American fascist thinkers and activists to organize.
In nineteen thirty one, is the Nazi Party crept into
power in Germany, their foreign office formed an official Nazi
Party branch in New York City and at the same
time dissolved the n s t A in order to
create gal Light Tongue USA or District Headquarters USA. So
the Teutonia Association folded and gal Usa was briefly the

(06:20):
home of American Nazism, but it hit their gained absolute power.
It became clear to the Nazis that the existence of
an American Nazi Party was not helpful to their goals.
It kind of made them look like an evil empire based,
you know, on the doomination. When you put it like that,
I can see why they'd be concerned about sus. The Nazis, Yeah, yeah,

(06:44):
they weren't dumb. They were about some things about like
giving coats to their soldiers. The effective they were good
at nineteen thirty three, they were firing on all cylinders.
We all have our strengths now. In ninety three, the
German Nazi Party he had gal Usa, declared defunct and
opened up the Friends of Germany. Its goals would be

(07:04):
to build support for the Third Reich in the U
s and to spread Nazi propaganda, but not to bring
Nazism to the United States in any organized way. The
Worldwide Depression is often credited with the rise of the
Nazi Party in Germany, although the extent to which that's
true is kind of debatable. Definitely had an impact on
the spread of fascist thought in Europe and in the
United States. The first truly American fascist intellectual was a
man named Lawrence Dennis Now. He started out as a

(07:26):
child evangelist who attended Harvard as a young man and
worked briefly in the Foreign Service before working as a
journalist for the New Republic and the Nation. In nineteen
thirty two, in the depth of the depression, he wrote
his first book, Is Capitalism Doomed? Lawrence worried that it was,
and that the void left by its absence would be
filled by something tremendously destructive like communism. Readers of Dennis's

(07:47):
first book walked away with the distinct impression that fascism
would be preferable to communism since the choice was inevitable. Yeah,
I love how, especially today you talked to when you
hear people to discuss these things, like if you had
to choose between fascism and socialism, you choose fascism. But
you can't say it out loud, but it's true, you would. No,

(08:10):
you can look at like USSR versus Zarist Russia. Obviously
a lot of horrible things done by the U. S SR,
but also for most of the people in it, probably
better than life in Czarist Russia. Then you look at
Nazi Germany versus the Weimar republics. Okay, So the Friends

(08:31):
of Germany recruited five thousand members from between nineteen thirty
three and nineteen thirty five. This made them comparable in
size to the American Communist Party at the same time,
but the Friends of Germany also drew negative attention from
US Congress for its armed division, the o D and
for the fact that many of its members were German
nationals living in the United States. The German government quickly
folded and ordered all its citizens to leave the Friends

(08:52):
of New Germany. The organization was dissolved in nineteen thirty
six and absorbed by another organization, the German American Booned.
This is the people have heard of. Yes, I have
heard of the Boond. Yeah. Now. The boond was led
by Fritz Julius Kuhn, a German born Man who had
fought for the Kaiser in World War One and fought
for the Nazis in the streets prior to Hitler's rise
to power. He moved to Mexico in nine and then

(09:13):
moved to the United States. Fritz Kuhn had joined the
Friends of New Germany and nineteen three and become a
citizen in thirty four, So the BOOND was not officially
a fascist organization. Their stated purpose was to build support
for Nazi Germany in the USA. A description for a
pro America rally they hosted notes that quote, the BOOND
is opposed to all isms in American public life, including
Nazism and fascism, regarding these political systems as affairs of

(09:35):
the people who live under them, supported as they are
by upward of the electors and nation white plebiscites, but
impracticable and inexpedient innovations the American system of government. People
really love fascism, but we're not fans of We're not advocating,
but people are happy with a lot of people are saying.
A lot of people are saying it's the best kind

(09:56):
of government. Not us, but a lot of people. And
there are fine people on all side. You didn't have
to squint hard to see Nazism in the Bund's messaging quote.
The BUND opposes Zionism as an infectious disease gnawing at
the core of American political, social, and economic life, covering
an ever widening field of activities which have already developed
a power of American life which cannot be shaken off

(10:17):
as long as Jews control to press the radio. The
screen in the skate feels pretty. It feels a little Nazi,
doesn't it. Um. Yeah, that's I would say, that's more
than a little smidge fashion. Yeah. Now. Nineteen thirty six,
the year The boond was founded, was the year of
another American fascist landmark. Lawrence Dennis published his second book,

(10:39):
The Coming American Fascism. His basic argument was that fascism
was preferable to communism, and the Depression had proved that
capitalism could not possibly continue. Most of his arguments had
to do with economics and the fact that he felt
the current debt based state of the global economy was unsustainable.
A founder review of his book published in Foreign Affairs magazine,
it stated, simply, the author of his Capitalism Doomed repeats

(11:00):
his conviction that fascism is coming and that it will
do good. Not a great prediction historically didn't didn't quite
work out that way, but definitely a prediction, but a prediction.
Let's give him credit for he did say some words
just you know, just tossing things on the wall, and
if they stick, well, a lot of people are going
to die, will be burned alive. Lawrence grew more and

(11:24):
more renown. He booked speaking engagements all around the country,
talked to colleges, and published journals advocating and into capitalist democracy.
One left wing paper at the time described him as
quote the tall, swarthy prophet of intellectual fascism. As Lawrence
Dennis's example shows, American fascism was not exported by foreign powers.
It actually grew far too quickly for the Italian fascist

(11:45):
and Nazi parties to even manage. In nineteen thirty three,
a former Hollywood screenwriter named William Dudley Pelly founded the
Silver Legion of America, the first explicitly fascist and truly
American organization. Yeah, Pell he was a pretty good pick
for an American hitler. If you're looking for a guy
who's kind of similar and tries to do the same thing,

(12:07):
he's a pretty solid pick. He had been a moderately
successful screenwriter in Hollywood and made the modern equivalent of
about one and a half million dollars for the various
films that he had written. He'd earlier spent time as
a war correspondent in Russia, and had developed a tremendous
fear of the Bolsheviks, along with a profoundly anti Semitic worldview.
All this made him feel guilty about his life of
excess in Hollywood's golden era. On May, he had a

(12:31):
profound religious experience. Here's a quote from the wonderful book
Hitler's American Friends that inspired part of this podcast quote.
He experienced a vision of being whisked away through a
bluish mist. He regained consciousness laying on a marble slab
next to two men who began to reveal the secrets
of the universe. Among these was the revelation that death
was only temporary and that all human beings are reincarnated

(12:51):
to proceed up a ladder to higher existence. Even more important,
Pelly reported, the men told him that he would receive
additional revelations in the future. Claiming himself to have been reborn,
Pelly declared that when he woke up the next morning,
his physical appearance had changed. Lions had disappeared from his face,
and he appeared more relaxed. Their great release, as Pelly
called it, put his life on a new course. I

(13:12):
mean that sounds like Buddhist or something like having some
sort of an epiphany where Yeah, I'm excited for him.
I'm excited for that inner piece that he's he's found.
I feel like it's going to go good directions. Yeah,
let's read the next paragraph. Okay, Yeah. He opened a
spiritualist journal and gained more than ten thousand subscribers, eager
to read his opinions on automatic writing and clairvoyance. Most

(13:33):
of his followers at this point, where women in their donations,
supported the opening of Galahad Press in ninety one. His
anti semitism and paranormal beliefs gradually coalesced into a thoroughly
American kind of fascism. The Silver Legion was formed in
the hopes that it would sweep American politics. And they
were called the Silver Legion because they wore silver shirts
with a big L on them that stood for I think,
loyalty and life and legion. And here's here's a picture

(13:56):
of these guys. They all look like Gavin McGinnis. It's
just replaced the L with a pocket protection. Nothing ever changes,
nothing ever, nothing ever changes, my goodness. Pelly's goal was
a new fascist state where all property was held by
the government and every citizen was a stockholder in the nation.

(14:17):
This would guarantee everyone a healthy basic income that would
rise if they did things to help the state, like
serve in the military. Only white citizens could own stock
in the United States, Black Americans would be re enslaved
in order to provide the free labor Pelly system immediate.
How does he not realize that's taking him down the letter,

(14:39):
He's going away from his growth. It's like, oh, yeah,
basic income, that's a thing that might be. Oh no,
he's slow, creeps slow throughout the three sentences in that paragraph.
Man re enslaved is not such a matter of fact
tossing that out there. Oh, we're not done. Pelly called

(15:03):
his dream of a new nation the Christian Commonwealth, and
he described its financial system as Christian economics. He saw
Jewish people as the main obstacle to this dream. When
the Commonwealth was established, Pelly said, a Secretary of Jewelry
would be appointed to restrict Jewish people to a single
city per state. Very this is a very American. It's fascism,

(15:24):
but it's very clearly on similar lines to what Hitler
is saying. But it is also in a lot always
very different and much more Americans sort of and very
much based around white identity kind of fascism. So this
is the first auto cathonic fascism that we have in
the United States, the first time it arises from within
US as opposed to just Germans. And it's important. Like
someone's like, I like this, I'm going to start on whatever.

(15:49):
It's funky. Yeah, it's like the Taco Bell of fascism.
So American was like, this is cool. What if I
make it terrible and easily spread herble? Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
But also like the original taco is like a pilot
ship as well, the original taco is massacring millions. Yea,
not a great taco, not a great thing to take

(16:11):
inspiration from. It's a bacism talking. Yeah, tacal is m
now Taco Bell. We are looking for someone else to
plug for no money, Yes, please don't if you want
us to stop making references to bauchoism and your products,
because we're going to do it a lot more. Yeah
we will. So Pelly knew the chief marketing level he

(16:32):
had to pull to sell his brand of Yege Doodle fascism,
this fear of Marxism. That was nice, Thank you, we go. Finally,
like when are we gonna talk about Marxism Marxism right now?
I found a copy of one of the recruiting pamphlets,
The Reds Are upon Us. It's a guide for how
sponsors of the Silver Shirt movement can create new fascist
celts within the United States. So it was meant to

(16:53):
be read out to groups of people to convert them.
And this will be on our site if you've been
like I could stand to read some like nineteen thirties
honest American fascism propaganda for pleasure, just for fun. I
was gonna do some canvassing, but maybe you'll canvass about this.
I'll take his literature. It's what I did instead of
right Christmas cards this year. Okay, yeah, good use of time.

(17:15):
So it's actually really cleverly organized. It starts off by
harping on the dangers of communism, but then a couple
of pages in it portrays communism as a fundamentally different
from not capitalism or from Americans, but gentiles. So it
starts just talking about communism, and then it introduces the
idea that communism is something fundamentally opposed to being a gentile.

(17:36):
So it makes that clever little shift before it starts
talking about Jewish people in any way. Yeah, so here's
a quote pamphlet. The gentile says to himself, there are,
by known public account, less than a hundred registered communist
right here in my own city. Why should I get
excited about a number so silly? That is precisely why
the Communist Party is out in the open, to make

(17:57):
the average gentile think there is really nothing to get
excited about. Now, the pamphlet continues to state that the
real work of Communism is promoted in ways quote gullible
Christian Americans won't recognize. According to the Silver Legion, communism
is not a small movement in the US at all.
Quote Chief Pelly's personal estimate is that there are something
like twenty two million, or one fifth of our whole population,

(18:18):
It continues. After researching the matter for ten or more years,
he finds that, first of all, we must take our
total Jewish population into account. Our Jewish population constitutes the
main backbone of communism secretly or in the open mine.
Does it make you feel better? No, he doesn't think
that all Jewish people are fundamentally communists. He just thinks

(18:40):
that they are required by their religion to do whatever
their rabbi says, and all rabbis are communism. You know,
it doesn't make me feel better. Actually, I appreciate the rephrasing,
but you know, that's a nice attempt. I agree, I don't.
It doesn't make me feel super great. It's putting a
bow on the fascism. Get You get a taco and

(19:02):
it's based on ship, and you put a bow on it,
and that bow is maybe made of ship. Maybe the
bows made of ship. Maybe it's really just a pile
of ship on top of it, a ship a dog
that ate a bow and then pooped it out. That's
exactly what it is. So it is partially intact. There's
a bow there, it's covered and digested food stuff and bacteria.

(19:24):
Also spray painted silver. So yeah, well it is the
silver shirts exactly. Oh what a fun we have fun
mystery is a hoot in a holler dislike. So, people
who spent some time reading their Hitler will notice that
this is, yeah, a pretty similar thought process to what
led him to invade the USSR at the idea that
Bolshevism and Judaism are like inherent together. That kind of

(19:47):
thinking found a warm home in parts of the United States.
Pelly was most popular in the Pacific Northwest, particularly Washington
and Oregon, and the Midwest. Police said he had fifty
thou followers within a few months of starting. The Silver
Shirts is almost certainly an ext adjuration, but it's likely
the organization had about fifteen thousand members at any point
in time during its height, so not tiny, but not

(20:07):
giant in the count of the whole country. In ninety seven,
the Nazi Party's World Service sent Hitler and memo informing
him that Pelly had risen to become one of the
quote national men of American politics and one of the
first native fascists in the country. It was noted that
his movement might even be a better way to gain
u s support for Nazi policies than the bund The
Nazis pushed a little bit of money Pelly's way. It's

(20:30):
possible that Hitler's house up in the Pacific Palisades that
like Nazi compound that is a graffiti sanctuary and now
beautiful hiking that was the Silver Shirts. They're the guys
who bought it, and it's very possible, although not confirmed,
that that was bought with money that was sent by
the German Nazi Party. We don't know. It was registered
in the name of someone who probably didn't exist. It's all.

(20:51):
It's a big mess. I forgot that that's out there. Yeah,
it's a really beautiful hike. Check out the house that
this American It adds a twenty gallon fuel tank. I
wonder what they were planning. Remember that really neat? Yeah,
huh okay. So when we get back, we're going to

(21:11):
talk about how talk radio helped inculcate fascism in America
something years ago. But before we do that, we should
talk about products and services. I would like those services,
both of them. And we're back, and I just want

(21:35):
to shame our producer, Sophie throwing out a couple of
mini mini pizza bagels just because they weren't just because
they weren't to frosted. Tossed out a salad recently, shameful, shameful.
We're gonna food waste. Shame. You get frost and if
you're a listener at home, throw some food in the
trash and you can feel more of what it's like

(21:56):
to be in this room. Also have Lysol scrubbing wipes.
The only scrub and wipes on the table in front
of us. Some star magazines, some in touch magazine is
just audience interaction advertising by default. Whatever's around us are
the products who tape Hio microphone stands. That's a concerning

(22:17):
name for a microphone is microphones are kind of always
sig hiling. They are salting it bears looking into why
they are named Hyle And maybe you should put a
picture of these stands up so the listeners know what
we're talking about. Shots fired at the company who provides
our microphone stands. Okay. So yet another source of native Nazism,

(22:39):
or at least fascism in the United States was the
famed radio priest Father Charles Coughlin. Coughlin had been born
in Canada in one and wound up in America on
assignment from the Catholic Church. He started his radio career
in ninety six speaking out against a rash of cross
burnings by the KKK. He was actually victimized himself by
the clan shortly after he moved to Michigan. His radio
show proved riotously pop in. By nineteen thirty one, he

(23:01):
was probably the largest radio star in the world and
maybe the largest radio star in history. At his peak,
Coughlan was reaching roughly twenty nine million American listeners per broadcast.
The only other broadcaster has ever come close as Russia
Limbaugh at twenty million. So still yeah, and there was
a hundred million Americans. Yeah, a third of the country

(23:23):
is like again, it's probably the most popular any single
radio personality ever been. Now Coughlin started out angrily to
crying the KKK and moved on to attacking the banks
as the Great Depression kicked off. He railed against both
capitalist excess and godless communism. By one the focus of
most of his ire were the international bankers who had

(23:43):
started World War One. The term international bankers was, of
course seen by many as a synonym for the term
could we put some parentheses around that? They are there?
They're there every time. I can't type international bankers and
not put parentheses around it. It's just your computer doesn't
automatically we know what's going on. That's the clippy clippy

(24:04):
just seems like wis Semitism? Would you like to add?
If you like to add some priphesy cipp He just
starts shouting all over my document here. Now CBS wind
up kicking Father Coughlin off the air after his jubating

(24:27):
got a little bit too hardcore. NBC refused to pick
up his show, so Father Coughlin created the Radio League
of the Little Flower, where for the cost of one
dollar a year, users could support Coughlin in his screaming
at the people they hated. This allowed him to buy
time on eleven and eventually twenty seven stations across the country.
He was paying something like a quarter of a million
dollars a week to run his radio stations. That's how

(24:48):
much money is coming into this fucking radio pries and
so they were paying for it to be everywhere. It's
so like a little Patreon, Yeah, like it is, it is.
It's exactly that he was ahead of his time. He
was basically, you sing, Patreon to fund his radio show
so that he could say what he wanted with no restrictions.
And I'm gonna give you one guess as to where
he turns when there's no restrictions, towards the light like

(25:13):
a pyre, maybe furnace, like a burning cross or well.
He was against the KA at least each other, at
least he was against the k K. Now. In nineteen
thirty two, Father Coughlin endorsed Franklin Delano Roosevelt at the
d n C. He did this because he was essentially

(25:34):
trying to push FDR to fix the depression, and he
was very vocal about this. He wanted FDR to fix
the depression by minting gold and silver coins in order
to create inflation, which would reduce debt and unemployment. So
Coughlin turned on FDR when he became present because FDR
didn't do any of this. UH. In nineteen thirty four,
the Treasury Department announced that Coughlin's secretary owned five hundred

(25:54):
thousand ounces of silver and was the largest silver holder
in the state of Michigan. The purchase of all this
silver paid for in part by donations to the Radio
League of the Little Flower. Some people allege that coughlin
support of SDR was basically a scheme to make a
shipload of money off of silver, saying that also weird,
how nothing has changed about radio like I'm waiting for

(26:17):
you to be like oh. And then he started selling
brain to that's an innovation from Alex Jones, but very
proud spread that to UH, putting sawdust in capsules and
selling it to people to fix their brains. The Times. Also, well,

(26:39):
that's how you keep them coming back, that razor razor blade,
both of which cut the customer philosophy. Yeah, so, whatever
the case, Coughlin was piste at the Democrats and announced
the start of his own political party, the National Union
for Social Justice. Now. The n U s J was
open to people of all religions as long as that
religion was Christianity, and it called upon Americans to resist

(27:02):
communism and socialism. Coughlin also urged the abolition of the
Federal Reserve. Near the end of the year, during one
of his wildly popular radio broadcasts, Coughlin announced that there
was no longer any hope for capitalism or democracy in
the United States of America. It's democracy, some sort of
dictatorship might be preferable to the current conditions. Baby. By

(27:27):
the end of nineteen thirty five, membership and Coughlin's Union
was somewhere between one and eight point five million people.
The radio priests teamed up with Kenneth Smith, a Midwestern
preacher who had worked with Huey Long, and Frances Townsend,
a political fire brand who wanted to solve the depression
by giving old people huge pensions that they would then
be required to support every month. So he gets up
with these other two populist politicians, and together there are

(27:47):
alliances believed to be as good for as many as
twenty million votes. They represent a lot of people, so
they begin to campaign around the country, laying the ground
for a vast Union Party ticket. In the nineteen thirty
six elections. They had great early success. And now that
he was addressing crowds of cheering supporters, father Coughland really
turned up the anti Semitism. I'm gonna play a short
segment from a speech he gave in Cleveland, Cleveland, Cleveland.

(28:11):
Whenever something that happens in American history one fourth at
the time, it will be in Cleveland, Land of the Cleveland,
Land of burning rivers, Cleveland. Everything terrible in America starts there,
or at least goes through Cleveland at some point, like
a body of water in flames. Is the perfect. Here's

(28:35):
a short segment from a speech in Cleveland. We are
Christianian soul father, as we believe in christ principle of
long young neighbor, as yourself principle. My challenge have read
you in this name. You tell me that he does
not believing why that was once soon one hell of

(29:02):
a synthesis was a sentence with an arc there's a
whole heroes journey, and completely cancels out the first part
of the sentence. Oh that, well, that's your low pointing
to go oh dear God, stunning ra though. I mean,

(29:22):
you can see why people listen to that. Yeah, absolutely,
that's a voice you can trust. So Unfortunately for the
Union for Social Justice, but fortunately for the country and world,
Coughlin and Smith were a couple of messy bitches who
couldn't keep their ship together. Coughlin got jealous of the
fact that Smith was a better public speaker than him
and refused to share the stage at any events. Kenneth
Smith went bug fuck nuts shortly if thereafter, declared on

(29:45):
stage that quote the lunatic fringe is about to take
over the government, and then decided that the Union Party
was too moderate for him, and now his goal was
to seize control of the government. This happens October of
ninety six. That was the October Surprise. It is one
you know, it's not like a tape of admitting to
like sexual assault. It's just I want to take over

(30:05):
the I want to be the dictator. You know what
I've been talking about, how democracy is bad. Well surprised,
I'm a fascist. The Union Party was resoundingly defeated in
the election. Coughlin disbanded the party and announced his retirement
from broadcasting. This lasted until January of the next year,

(30:25):
when he said, in essence, Okay, if y'all want me
back that bad I'll come back now. I had a
lot of trouble deciding how to organize this episode. Bradley Heart,
the author of Hitler's American Friends, separates Father Coughlin and
the Silver Shirts and the Boon into different chapters. I
made a decision to try to do all this chronologically
because I think it's important to really get a sense
for the pace at which fascism bubbled up in American politics.

(30:47):
Cropped up all over the country in a bunch of
different locations and among different sections of American society, and
at this point in the story there was fairly little
convergence between the soundary fascist groups. So the Silver Shirts
were active in the nineteen thirty six election as well.
Pell Either founder had just recovered from a minor scandal
he basically defrauded shareholders. In his book production company Galahad Press,
and used it to fund his fascist militia. Fraud shameless fraud,

(31:11):
another strong American tradition. He'd been indicted in North Carolina,
arrested and convicted, but he was out of jail and
back in politics by five. He announced his thousands of
followers that God had sent him a message another economic
crash was coming. He formed the Christian Party, essentially the
political wing of the Silver Shirts, in order to rescue
America from disaster. Now President Roosevelt, according to Pelly, was

(31:32):
a secret surprise Jew whose real name was Rosenfeld. God
Alf Landon, the Republican candidate, was conspiring with FDR to
destroy the Christian Party by hosting his campaign events in
the same cities that Pelly was. Since the conspiracy against
him was clearly so far reaching and powerful, Pelly had
to get creative in order to build support. I'm going
to read a quote from Hitler's American Friends, and y'all

(31:54):
are gonna like this part. I want you all to
think there was a proud boy recently who was exposed
one of the violent people, I think in the Portland rallies,
and it might have been in New York. There were
pictures of him with his I guess wife girlfriend who
was a black woman in there and their children just
started as trial, So keep that in mind as I

(32:15):
read this next point. One of his more bizarre ploys
involved an effort to convert Native Americans to the silver
Shired cause. Pelly's sudden interest in Native Americans stemmed from
a supposed divine realization that the Bureau of Indian Affairs
had been taken over by Bolsheviks. Native Americans were therefore
natural allies for his political movement because they too were
supposedly victims of the Jewish conspiracy Pelly saw everywhere. Among

(32:36):
the many problems with this eccentric plan was the fact
that Pelly did not actually know many Native Americans. His
efforts to reach out by referring to himself as Chief
Pelly of the Tribe of Silver and writing articles in
pros that could have been lifted from stock characters of
Hollywood Westerns gained few supporters, but Pelly did succeed in
getting one actual Native American supporter, a Portland attorney named
Elwood Towner. Now Towner was part Native American, but he

(32:59):
saw a money make opportunity in budding American fascism. He
started calling himself Chief Red Cloud and began touring booned
and silver shirt meetings across the West Coast. Thousands of
people who probably wouldn't have shown up to a lecture
on fascism showed up to see Chief Red Cloud for
the same reason. Certain white people today wear featherhead dresses
at music festivals. Here's how one attendee at a speech
described Elwood dressed in full Indian costume. Beautiful head dress

(33:22):
of white, green and lavender feathers, a thunderbird design in
the center of his headband with a swastika on each side,
pants of buckskin trimmed with fringing beads, a beatd vest,
and arm bands beaded in swastika and thunderbird design. I
found a picture of the guy and it is this
is cringe worthy, pretty special. Oh you can make out
those swastikas on the top, can You don't even have

(33:45):
to squint? Um surrounding himself by with frauds. And so
I found a fun article on Chief Red Cloud on
the website cross pet. They noted that he was famous
for calling FDRs New Deal the jew deal. Of course,
why it's right there. It's right there. You're just leaving

(34:08):
racism on the table, not to snatch that exactly, thank you. Furthermore,
quote Towner also began preaching a false history of America,
saying that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin had
been warned to keep Jews out of America, but were
thwarted in getting that provision in the US Constitution, a
native American inspired document, he said, by none other than
Alexander Hamilton's Townter lectures sometimes included readings from an infamously

(34:31):
debunk track embraced by violin andy Semites even today. The
protocols of the elders of his Zion. Chief Red Cloud
claimed that the coming of Germans to the Americas had
been quote glowingly prophesied by his ancestors Jews work quote
the gold worshippers who would corrupt the Aryan Indians and
put them in concentration camps. He would often close a
speech by saying, quote, our people admire Hitler for this

(34:53):
reason that he adopted for his symbol to swastika. It
means prosperity, good luck, and Christian government. Hitler also adopted
our salut, which means peace be unto you, advanced friend.
So that's what these mic stands are saying, exactly, advanced friend,
advanced friends, old worshippers, unlike us silver worshippers. And it's

(35:14):
important to note that Chief Red Clown went around to
all the different He was at the Bond, he was
with the Silver Shirts, he hung out an Italian Fascist meetings,
I think, and he made a lot of money during
these years doing this like this seems to have been
a grift. I don't know. Maybe he also believed all
of this. I mean, YEA half of it's usually a grift, right,
I mean a lot of it is. He's putting on
a performance here. His name is Elwood and he was

(35:34):
a lawyer before this, which didn't even a good name. No,
it's not el would l Wood makes me think of
the Reds exactly. Trust this guy. There you go. You
might be a secret communist, which is the same thing
as fascism according to fascist today. It's the same thing
and one's worse. Who can keeping. I do love it

(35:57):
when you get the Nazis who will both simultaneously, didn't
I Nazi crimes and also point out the socialist part
of yes It's like, what is even the argument you're making.
It didn't happen. Also, they were communists. My favorite thing.
I was also like, oh, the you know, the nuts
socialists right there in the name the healthcare and all
that stuff. And the second the president says he's a nationalist,

(36:18):
they're like, oh, that's good. That's the good part. The
good part of the nutsies was the nationalist part. If
they just hadn't had that socialism, it would have been fine.
Fun fact they did kill all of the socialists. That
was what The Night Long Knives was interesting. Fun facts there,
that's fact that everyone should know but doesn'tism and rejected

(36:41):
the very idea of like class conflict. Ye oh history
hierarchies need to look too closely ato history because history
is boring and no one learns anything from it. Ever,
why would you not to happen again? It was such
a ride the last time, right, but maybe this time

(37:03):
it will be different. So, in spite of Chief Red
Cloud's endorsement, Pelly's Christian Party did not do well in
the nineteen thirty six elections. They only made it on
the balant in Washington State and they didn't even rack
up two thousand votes in Washington. So the German American
boond was of course also active in the nineteen six election.
They took a different tack than their other far right compatriots.
They did not create a political party, since they were

(37:24):
explicitly not supposed to be a political party. They instead
through their support behind the party they saw as most
being supportive of Nazi Germany. So in October ninety six,
Fritz Kun announced a bund command to all his members,
ordering them to vote for alf Land and the Republican
presidential candidate. He claimed that Landing's administration would have quote
more favorable commercial relations with Germany. He also attacked Roosevelt's

(37:46):
quote preference for the Jewish element and his placing of
too many Jews in public office. Land And did not win. Sorry,
end of story of story. You're dead and forgotten now
happily ever after there, but he's got some pages in
his hand. So the party, it would have been most
beneficial to the Nazis. That's what the Nazis thought. It

(38:09):
seems to be what how the Nazis thought about Yeah, yeah,
So the six elections were kind of a defeat across
the board for the American fascist movement. But the increased
visibility they've gotten in the press and through the speaking
tours of people like Coughlin and Pelly, and of course
Chief Red Cloud had made the country meant that as
nineteen thirty seven dawned, more Americans than ever we're curious

(38:29):
about in sympathetic towards fascism. A Gallop poll taken that
year asked respondents whether they prefer to live under fascism
more communism. Of Americans picked fascism. Yeah, idiots, I feel
like this is gonna work out great for me. Oh
my gosh. So we're gonna get into what came next

(38:50):
for fascism in America, But first what comes next for
ads on this pod podcast? And we're back. We're back
when we're talking about fascism. So why because it's not

(39:11):
relevant to things happening today? Yeah? Good, Yeah, I'm tired
of things being relevant. Today is useless. So the late
thirties was a time of great growth and increasing acceptance
of fascism in America. The German American Boond opened a
network of summer camps in the United States. As an
undercover reporter in the Boond, John C. Metcalfe later testified
quote American boys and girls sing hymns to dare fewer

(39:32):
and to the Vaterland. They have never seen their youthful
feet goose step in a march of racial and religious hatred.
The minds and souls of these babes in the woods
are a fertile field for the propaganda of the boond thing. Yeah,
this part, because that's one of the most maybe not
the most chilling thing about Nazi Germany, but it is

(39:53):
chilling to me when I think about the indoctrination and
what they what they did to these kids. Yeah, it's
this gariest part. And now it's unclear how many total
American children went through boon to training camps and received
Nazi indoctrination. Bradley Heart, author of Hitler's American Friends, estimates
around seventy two hundred per year, so God probably the

(40:13):
biggest camp. Sigfried was located in New York and turned
into something of a Nazi town right in the East Coast.
There was a small neighborhood of houses and the whole
camp was owned collectively by the homeowners on the land.
Quote Atolf Hitler Street was a major thoroughfare. Streets were
similarly named for Nazi big wigs guests from Germany were
frequently hosted at Siegfried, and during the summer, the O
D trained there with rifles and other firearms. Promising members

(40:36):
of the Youth Division from all over the country were
also sent to Sigfried. The further the education and training,
making it effectively the center of boone training operations nationwide.
Major celebrations such as the Fourth of July celebrations that
began this chapter could attract tens of thousands of people
from New York City to Sigfried's leafy surroundings. So tens
of thousands of Americans being like, I'm not on board
with the Nazis, but I want to see their firework show,

(40:59):
and thousands and thousands of kids being like a community thing. Yeah,
I bet all those little Nazis grew up to be
adult Nazis and acreated children that are now running. Maybe
not now, but I bet we'll never have an episode
where we talk about what some of the people who
went to the summer camps went on to do. I

(41:19):
will not take that now. On an interesting site, note,
the Nazi homeowners Association that owned Siegfried continue to be
a thing after the bone collapsed at the outbreak of war.
They even had rules about what races you couldn't be
to live there. The Board of Homeowners had to sign
off any new buyers met their quote racial qualifications. Do
you want to guess how long this went on? How
long this Nazi homeowners Association? That I want to guess decades?

(41:42):
A lawsuit found out in a violation of the Fair
Housing Act in two thousand fifteen. That is a way
past what I thought you were going to say. I
repaired to be shocked at goodness stuff that's now. I

(42:05):
bet you're all wondering just what the funk went on
in America's Nazi summer camps. Good News. Charles Bokowski went
to one as a kid and wrote extensively about the experience.
He became a member of the Bund in nineteen thirty
eight at age eighteen, and remained one until the outbreak
of war in nineteen forty one. Later in life, he
wrote a novel ham on Rye, where he basically fictionalized

(42:25):
his real experiences as a young Nazi and explains why
the movement was so compelling to him. Because he was
born in Germany, so he was a first generation German
American immigrant quote. I had no freedom. I had nothing.
With Hitler around, maybe I'd get a piece of ass
now and then, and more than a dollar a week allowance.
As far as I could rationalize, I had nothing to protect.
Having been born in Germany, there was a natural loyalty,

(42:46):
and I didn't like to see the whole German nation
the people depicted everywhere as monsters and idiots in the
movie theaters. They sped up the news reels to make
Hitler and Mussolini look like frenetic madman. Also, with all
the instructors being anti German, I found it personally impossible
to simply agree with him. Out of sheer alienation and
a natural contrariness, I decided to align myself against their
point of view. That's how it happens. That's exactly it.

(43:11):
I mean, that's actually very well said, like he's a
great artist, writer, yeah, and self reflective and really on
the ball in terms. That is exactly a thousand just
like yeah, but yeah, but thats just like stamp, like
that's I'm tired of you telling me that my people

(43:31):
are bad and yeah, which there was unfair demonization of
the Germans during World War One, they weren't really any
worse than any of the other sides. Everyone was garbage
in World War One, it was a garbage war. But
world wars in general, nobody comes across looking great. And
the Worldwide War, yeah, where we decide civilians and civilian

(43:52):
cities are acceptable targets. Universally, nobody's the great guy. Although
it's just really easy to look good next to the Nazis.
It is super easy, uh, natural contrarian. Yeah. Boukaski also
gives a typically blunt rundown of one of their meetings. Quote,

(44:13):
we went down into a seller. They had this great,
big American flag there. We all stepped to pledge allegiance
to the flag. Then we started talking about the communist menace.
So I want to note that I learned all about
this from a u C. Boulder undergraduate honors thesis by
Patrick Rodriguez, So thank you Patrick, probably otherwise it's very useful.
He also describes how the armed wing of the Boon
to the O D was formed and trained into something

(44:35):
approaching a militia, even while the Bond continued to maintain
a b now frame friendly exterior quote, composing roughly ten
percent of the Boons membership. The o D, despite its name,
which translates into Armed Guard, was an unarmed ceremonial organization
reserve for ambitious young men between the ages of eighteen
and twenty five. Because it offered close proximity to the boons,
fear full access to the bones recreational facilities such as

(44:57):
Camp Sigfreed and Upstate New York, and the promise of
a steady wage, young men flocked to the o D.
For support. For less athletic individuals, the BUND offered other
possibilities for economic advancement. The BUND often used its propaganda
machinery to promote the small businesses of Pro German Pro
American members, such was the case with Cafe Hendenburg, a
cocktail lounge in Manhattan named after Paul von Hendenberg. So
this is a complicated situation. There are other reasons at

(45:20):
this point other than just being an inherent monster that
people support these organizations like Kowski grew up like well.
I think that's important when you're looking at the rise
of any of these movements, and Nazi Germany is not
a lot of it because we hate Jews. It's because
we are afraid and we don't know what to do next,
And we really are in kind of dire straits, and

(45:42):
this is a different answer. Everything is fucked up and
confused every exactly, no one knows what's going to happen,
and that's why those are the environments where these things happen.
That's literally the birth of American fascism is that Lawrence
Dennis being like, capitalism seems like it's on its way out.
Something's got to great depression, right, Everyone's looking for answers,
and sometimes grifters might take advantage of that. Yeah, what's

(46:05):
your issue with Chief red Cloud? Nothing? Nothing. He sounds trustworthy.
I feel like he's the hero of this episode. You
feel like that, But just sit tight, just just so.
Hitler actually cut off funding to the German American Boon
in ninety eight. Some of that probably had to do
with the fact that John Metcalfe, that undercover reporter, started

(46:26):
publishing his articles from the inside of the Boon in
ninety seven. There's a lot to talk about. Metcalf's a
real hero and like one of these journals who gets
inside this organization and like both writes good articles about
it but also provides the government with information about the
crimes that they're committing. He's a real cool guy. Um,
big fan of John Metal, different kind of podcast, different
kind of behind the guys who weren't bad. Um. So

(46:49):
it seems like the funding to the b in front
of the bastard fists punching. Now it seems like the
bones funding was cut off because the fewer was again
were read about upsetting US public opinion. If so, that's
actually more evidence for how out of touch Hitler was
with the United States. In June of nineteen thirty eight,
Gallop asked Americans which was worse fascism or communism. Nearly

(47:11):
half of respondents didn't answer said communism. Just twenty three
found fascism more dangerous now. Ernst hm Stengel A Putsy
was a good friend of Hitler's and an American. For
some reference, Hitler was in love with his wife for
a while, and she stopped him from killing himself after
he sucked up the beer hall. Pusch had a weird
crush on her. What's wrong with you? I mean, no, yeah,

(47:33):
it's me. I'm not gonna bag on Helena. I'm gonna
bag on Putsy. I mean they all were probably pretty fashy,
I mean, right, like none of them are great people.
Putsy was later interviewed by the US government about Hitler
because he had a falling out. He wasn't around for
the whole World War two thing. Um, that whole thing,
that old chest no. Hun Stengel said that Hitler had

(47:56):
a quote wildly superficial understanding of American culture. I never
really see seated in bringing home the importance of America
as an integral factor in European politics. To Hitler, he
wanted to hear all about the skyscrapers and was fascinated
by details of technical progress, but failed utterly to draw
logical conclusions from the information. Now, Hitler did at one
point express interest in making a pact with the klu
Klux Klan, so he never really seemed all that motivated

(48:18):
to push fascism in America. But in ninety eight American
fascism seemed to be doing pretty well without Hitler's help.
Pelly published a manual take that take that Hitler believed
in US. Pelly published a manual a million Silver Shirts
by nineteen thirty nine, and announced that each state needed

(48:38):
to sign up one hundred new fascists every day. The
Silver Shirts launched a major recruitment drive exnaying the anti
Semitism and really hampering on communism. One Washington State fascist
wrote that year to a critic, the only reason we
make open opposition to the Jews is because they're the
ones who support communism, which is atheism, and are out
to destroy Christianity. We're not jew haterss reported, we are

(48:59):
only again their system. I do not hate a single Jew,
but I do feel sorry for them. I do not
hate a single person on this earth, including all Jews,
but I do feel sorry for them. You really talked
about the Jews at you really dropped, really really emphasized
they're Jewish and their atheists. Yeah, okay, okay, I just

(49:21):
want to make sure who listened unfailingly to their rabbi
because they're atheists. Totally honestly checks out. Yeah, it really
seems to hold together tight. So the mild rhetoric was
in direct contrast to their behavior. Pelly the Chief traveled

(49:42):
with a forty man bodyguard, all of whom carried pistols
openly and basically told law enforcement and soul towns, what
are you going to do about it? Also, in a
silver shirt officer told a Milwaukee reporter that all members
of the Legion had been advised to buy sought off
shotguns and two thousand rounds of AMMO in order to
protect quote white Christian America. Yeah. So President Roosevelt was
obviously not super happy with the violent Nazi rhetoric UH

(50:06):
and the MILITIAUS one. One would hope he'd have his
finger on that button. He was particularly concerned with Pelly
and asked the d o J I would be possible
to sue him for libel. They weren't able to do
that initially, but this does start a chain of reactions
that leads to prosecutions for Pelly and the gradual end
of the Silver Shirts. They don't wind up taking America
by storm. Um, But there were plenty of other American fascists,

(50:27):
don't you worry. One of them was John wyn Rod.
John wyn Rod was also a huge fan of the
Protocols of the Elders of Zion and of course of
Father Coughlin, And when Father Coughlin's Union Party fell apart
in nineteen thirties six, when Rod decided to try and
pick up the pieces. In nineteen thirty eight, one of
Kansas's Senate seats was open, and when Rod decided the
Democratic incumbent looked vulnerable John Wyn Rod's plan was to

(50:48):
win election in nineteen thirty eight and then ride this
surely forming red wave into the Republican nomination for the
nineteen forty presidential election. He started a radio show and
bought time on stations all over the country, mostly lamenting
the state of the economy and making veiled references to Jews. Quote,
perhaps you have thought the United States Congress controls the
nation's money. This most decidedly is not the case. Who

(51:10):
decided that I'll give you one guest and three letters.
So when Rod attacked Roosevelt for going after the Fascist
powers without equally criticizing the Soviet Union. When Rod harangued
voters twice a day on the air, and he gave
speeches that attracted audiences of thousands, he was only defeated
in Kansas because the state Republican Party united against him

(51:31):
and convinced former Governor Clyde Reid to want to run
an opposition. The Republicans successfully opposed him and voted not
Fascist into office when Rod still received fifty three votes,
but hey, the Republican Party, unlike the episode that will
have run like the week before this, they like three
states to stop fascists. They have their act together and

(51:52):
this they're boy don't. Yeah, we don't want people to
mistake conservatism for fascism. So we should oppose fascists refreshing
if we give it a few decades, if only Republicans
would take a leap of nineteen thirty eight Republicans. So.

(52:17):
Father Coughlin was also active in nineteen thirty eight. In
January of that year, he founded the Christian Front, a
nationwide organization dedicated to fighting communism. Jews were forbidden from joining.
Members were encouraged to arm themselves and regularly trained at
gun ranges. The Christian Front proved popular with the same
sort of people who become Proud Boys today. Soon mobs
of them were beating up Jews on the street in
various cities. Some even called themselves Father Coughlin's brown Shirts.

(52:41):
It became known that during rallies where Father Coughlin would speak,
the Christian Front members would fight with anti fascist protesters,
because again, get out of here, man, nothing ever changes
in all of history. Everything is the same. So hate this.
It's pretty wild. It's just the safe thing and it's

(53:05):
like it's just all stuff like yeah, like I see
this parallel, but then just like every single thing saying
you're a little on the nose. It's like a guy
covered in pro Trump propaganda stickers mailing bombs to all
the people Trump on the nose. That sounds yet and
yet Yet. In February nine, Fritz Kun held an event

(53:28):
that would prove to be the apex of the German
American Buns power. Twenty two thousand Buddhists and sympathetic listeners
showed up at Madison Square Garden for a gigantic America
themed Nazi rally. It was billed as a mass demonstration
for true Americanism and a celebration of George Washington's birthday
and the book Swastika Nation. Arnie Bernstein writes, quote, the

(53:49):
unprecedented event was really intended to be the German American
boons apothesis, proof positive to America and the world as
well as Berlin, that the American Nazis were here to stay.
The rally was to be a Coon's shining moment, an
elaborate pageant and vivid showcase of all he had built
in three years. Coon's dream of a Swastika nation would
be on display for the whole world, right in the
heart of what Berlin Press called the semitized metropolis of

(54:10):
New York. Nearly one hundred thousand counter protesters also showed up.
You might wait, one hundred thousand almost, you might call
them many fascists want to call that a good way
to do it. We'll figure it out, yeah, opposite of
sevent hundred police officers were deployed to keep the Nazis safe.

(54:32):
At the time, this was the largest show of force
in NYPD history. There is quite a lot of video
of this rally, and it is it is fucking chilling.
It's been cut into a short documentary called A Night
at the Garden, which you can watch online. The rally
stage has a full marching band and a giant painting
of George Washington that honestly looks exactly like a fucking
screen grab from a bioshot game like that on the

(54:53):
nose it In the addition, includes a man I can
only describe a sig hiling ted cruise because look at that.
I just look at this other dare look at that ship.
That's Nazi ted cruz. I'll put that picture up to like,
it's just it's uncanny. It's really that's got to be
a relation. It's a really close. Look right, it's really close.

(55:15):
I'll check out. So the rally opened with the pledge
of allegiance slightly notified, and I think you guys should
hear this. You do captive audience pledge allegiance to mine.
I recommend watching the documentary and seeing this because, like

(55:37):
the visuals of this are pretty pretty goddamn striking fled
on the allegiance to the flat off the United States

(55:57):
of America, Pop, we should stands one nation, indivisible with
liberty and justice fall. It's it's like a fucking screen
from an bad alternate history movie. Yeah, I pledge. What

(56:22):
did they say? I pledge undivided allegiance. Was like, that's
a that's a wrinkle on that. So Fritz Kun took
the stage next and began to deliver a speech, at
which point a Jewish American protester who worked as a
janitor in Madison Square Garden rushed onto the stage and
was horribly beaten and stripped mostly naked by the Nazis.

(56:43):
He had to be rescued by the NYPD. The whole
moment was actually filmed and we are going to watch it. Yeah,
are actively fighting for on our charter, first, our social
rust right, changed states, second Union, free from the domination. Yeah.

(57:23):
That people cheering the beating of a man. That's hard
to watch. Yeah, it's rough, it's real rough. The good
news is that this rally at Madison Square Garden would
prove to be the high water mark for the German
American Bund, but not it turned out for fascism in America.
When we come back in part two, we're going to
talk about the fall of Fritz Kun, one potential candidate

(57:44):
for American fere and the rise of a second candidate,
Charles Lindbergh. So so upset, it's really it really makes
you feel like wanting to die. It's it's bad, real bad,
and like so not far off, no, no, no, and

(58:06):
like knowing who's in charge and like what he wants
and like what he's like into and what he accepts,
and like it's it's one of the things that is
interesting to me. We will save the explicitly political stuff
in the end of part two, but this book, Hitler's
American Friends, is the second book that I've talked about
heavily on this podcast this year, the first being The

(58:26):
Death of Democracy, both of which are written by scholars
and historians who focus on the history of the Third
Reich in the end of the Vimy Republic. Multiple of
them now have all been like, I should really need
to put out a book that specifically addresses the things
that are happening now that happened because it's so similar. Now. Yeah,
this book was written and Hitler's American Friends was written

(58:48):
in reaction to so was the Death of Democracy? Really? Yeah,
they put them out because they were like, oh my god,
this is the thing I've studied my entire life and
it seems to be happy again. That's the thing that
we don't talk about or not, or we do talk
about it, but we talk We talked about it that
people don't talk about it because in many ways it's like, yeah,

(59:08):
there are similarities. Uh, there are things that hopefully aren't
going to happen, but there are things that have happened
that didn't happen, Like there are things that this is
further along then ever before here at least. Yeah, when
people were calling George W. Bush a Nazi or Hitler,
it was left wing protesters but it was not academics,

(59:30):
it was not people who would specifically spent their life
studying this period in history. They're all coming out now,
you don't find any being like, no, the comparisons to
fascism Nazism are overblown, Like they're all like, no, this
is really concerning every single one of them. And it's
always people who study the part before the stuff that
everyone before all of the killing, right, Yeah, like every

(59:53):
single person is like what like if if if you
were a fascist, could you say he was a fascist?
Well that's the second half. Like we're not yet, That's
what it's so maddening. Uh, And like self proclaimed like
intellectuals and like thought leaders who like just dismiss it
outright when like no, literally people who studied this for

(01:00:14):
a living are talking about and the guy who came
up with Godwin's Laws specifically said like no, no, no,
you do it, do it. It's this is the time,
this is the time. And like I didn't realize that
both those books were They're not the only ones written
in direct reaction to the current things happening in America
by scholars of that, but they're the two we've talked

(01:00:35):
about this. Yeah, um, and even that um, I forget
his name, came out and was like talking about the
similar between miss McConnell. Uh, and just like, yeah, he's
the guy who might have been Kurt Vuncher one of
the guys oh to Hendenburg, right, um, and just like yeah,
he literally used the phrase the grave digger of democracy
because he spent his entire career obsessed with money and

(01:00:58):
power and doing his best to suppressed democracy and go
along with whoever gives him more power, but to do
the things he wants. We have failed to not talk
about politics at the end of this. We're gonna get
into more Nazis next time on Thursday, and there's gonna
be some fun stuff in this one. I can't wait.

(01:01:18):
It's gonna it's gonna be really neat no more. Chief
red Cloud played his part, you know he did, and
there is still a surprise reveal ahead. So yeah, we're
gonna were about Lawrence founder American Fashions Up. Turns out
there's a twig. What a treat alright, plugables plug Yeah,

(01:01:42):
Patreon dot com, Slash some more news, Twitter dot com,
slash some more news, YouTube dot dot com. Let's search
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we talk about this kind of stuff and other stuff,
and check out our podcast even more news. Dr Mr
Cody is my Twitter handle, my personal thing mind Katie
Stole Katie with the Y like Katie Perry. Like Katie Perry,

(01:02:05):
I'm Robert Evans, like the guy who produced Godfather. You
can find me on Twitter at I right, okay. You
can find this podcast on the internet at behind the
Bastards dot com. You can find us on t public
Behind the Bastards buy some T shirts. I will use
the money to I don't know. Sometimes I watch a

(01:02:25):
video about a Nazi rally and Madison Square Garden and
I need to buy beer. That's what you can help with.
If you enjoy this podcasts research adjacent I would I
do write it off on my tax Sanity liquor part yeah, exactly. Medication, medication, journalism, medication. Yeah.
You can find this website on the internet at behind
the Bastards dot com, where you will find, among other things,

(01:02:46):
Nazi ted crush. It's it's uncanny, it's really surreal. It's beautiful.
You guys. Alright, this has been the podcast I have
been Robert Evans and once more, I love about four
of eight,