Part One: The Complete, Insane Story of Trump University

In Episode 50, Robert is joined by Miles Gray (The Daily Zeitgeist) and they discuss a Trump-adjacent topic: Trump University.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what's popping my bubble wraps? Nope, no, that was
another failure. It can't all be can all be? Hit, Sophie.
I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, the show
where I tell you everything you don't know about the
very worst people in all of history. And like every
third episode, I pick a really bad introduction to try out.

(00:21):
But we're going to hit a new catchphrase. Yeah, yeah,
thank you, thank you for your vot of confidence, Sophie.
She doesn't believe in me. Nobody does. But you know
who doesn't believe in me is my guest today, Miles Gray. Hello,
Miles Man. Really great to do a podcast. I gotta
tell you you love that. I'm loving it, you know,

(00:42):
I'm loving everything about today. So it's great to be here.
You don't get a lot of podcasts, and it's kind
of cool. Miles. We're talking about Trump University today. What
do you know about Trump University? I mean not that much.
I mean, I know, you know the basics. You know,
the president had a fraudulent university, and I think like
a lot, not all, but many for profit colleges and universities.

(01:05):
It's just a big graft. Yeah, it's a big con game.
I think most people know that much. That Like, he
had a for profit university and it was scammier than
full sale full sale, the one for like like the
entertainment industry or something. They'll put you you're gonna be
working on video games in a year, buddy, or yeah,
that kind of in the custodian at a developer office. Yeah,

(01:29):
it's crazy how you'll be certified to clean a server room.
It might say something dangerous about our society that one
of the most successful and profitable cons of all time
involved dozens of different people independently making fake schools to
grift people out of money. That might say something really
bad about us. Yeah, yeah, but I mean it's clever,

(01:50):
it's clever, it's smart. It's a great con. Today we're
not gonna be talking about a great con. Ah. Yeah,
but it made money. It's just a straightforward, just bullshit university.
It's not straightforward. It's just not as good a con
as the university. Now, about once a week someone on
Twitter will be like, you should do when you're Donald
Trump episode coming out And I'm never gonna do a

(02:12):
whole episode about just his life because it's been covered
too many times. Yeah, just search any other body. Yeah,
there's there's a ton of But I was always kind
of Trump University is one of those things that like
I knew something shady had gone on. I knew he'd
gotten sued and ordered to repay a bunch of money
to people who got defrauded, but I didn't really know
anything about it, and so I just kind of got

(02:32):
interested in like reading about Trump University. And so like
this weekend, I got really high and I couldn't sleep,
and I found a book called Trump You Inside Trump University,
written by a guy named Stephen Gilpin. Now Stephen builds
himself is essentially the only honest man inside Trump University.
And I think he's fudging the truth to some degree,

(02:53):
but a lot of what he says sounds credible. He's
not like totally. He definitely writes himself out of having
a role in the bad parts, right right, right, Yeah,
he's like Tiffany Trump, He's like you know where She's like, yeah,
it's my dad. But like I'm like the one who's
like wearing white at the State of the Union, talking
ship behind his back, trying to save my own rep
because I know this is a bad look. I mean yeah,

(03:14):
all the like you know, rumor stuff about her, is
that like she's just hates like what is what her
life has become, or at least likes to openly talk
to about her that I could see that being true.
That's that's a rough position as a kid. Yeah, I know,
I mean we joke. I feel like he didn't even
probably know her actual name because like in you no,
I mean, she's talked to any given New York Times

(03:36):
White House correspondent more than he has Tiffany. Seriously, Maggie Haberman,
He's like, are you Maggie. He's like, no, Dad, there's
probably the New York Times journalist. Okay, So so he
is an insiders. He's one of the sources will have
for this. He's he's well, whistleblowers the wrong word. He
got paid to write a book about it after the

(03:56):
president started running for them. So he's like four or
whistle player. He's a he's a he's a lower echelon
of grifter. Yeah right, he's it's a fair grift, Like
people want to know about this thing. You have the experience. Okay,
am I gonna call you a bad person for cashing
in on it at that point. Um, but you're not.
He's not a hero for sure, Like, yeah, he he

(04:19):
was a foot soldier in this Yeah, yeah, of course,
and he's just capitalizing on his bad deeds. But hey,
if you want to hire me for your fraudulent university,
I can be reached on Twitter at I right, Okay,
what would you teach? You know whatever? Surgery sounds? Yeah,
well yeah, teacher, this is my professor, Roberts. Tight fucking

(04:44):
we did surgery on a fucking dead cow with a
Samurai sword. He was chopping out of it. I don't know.
He said, it's like a bypass. Now we're all m
d s. His class is just forty days. Oh boy, Yeah,
when I get rich, that's my plan, fake university. And
I respect that I supported Ye tell me where to sign.

(05:06):
So the story of Trump University starts in two thousand
and four when Donald Trump, Michael Sexton, and some guy
named Jonathan formed Trump University, LLC. At this point, the
vision was that Trump You would be a long distance
web learning solution where busy housewives and people looking to
start a second career could take courses in real estate
and business management. Michael Sexton, a longtime Trump employee noted
that the company also planned to experiment with live instructional programs.

(05:29):
Trump's lawyer filed for a patent around the same time,
claiming that Trump you would provide quote educational services in
the nature of conducting online courses in the fields of
business and real estate. So he's he's it's it's it's
supposed to be like an online business. Yeah, just whatever.
It's real estate, it's business. Yeah. It's making money, baby,
It's making money baby. So the first headquarters for Trump

(05:51):
University was one of the few buildings Donald Trump actually
owns seventy two tower Trump Building in forty Wall Street
in midtown Manhattan. Now, the building is an interesting space.
It costs per square foot about half the going rate
of space and that part of Manhattan. Why would a
skyscraper in such an illustrious location be so cheap, Yeah,
Bloomberg dot com. That's a little bit of an explanation.

(06:13):
Since Donald Trump took over forty Wall Street, prosecutors have
filed criminal charges against at least twenty nine people conducted
to twelve alleged scams tied to the building. Nine other
firms have faced serious regulatory claims authorities prevailed in most
but not all of the cases. So it's a scam city,
scam city tower. Donald trump strategy with the Trump Building

(06:35):
seems to be this give shady s people an opportunity
to rent dirt cheap Wall Street real estate so they
can put that address on their documents and pretend to
be legitimate companies. Like, how could this be at York,
New York. Oh, you don't believe it. Pull up to
the thing. We got an office. It's just big enough
for a single desk. It's a single phone on the

(06:57):
floor on a milk crate. It wow. Of course, of course,
I don't know why. I'm always like surprised, but that's
kind of cool. That's like for the people who like
have those private jets that you can that are on
the tarmac, and they're like, you know, for five bucks
you can have a photo shooting here and pretend that
you are wealthy, that your wealth. Well you're still probably
wealthy if you're blowing five bucks on a photo shoot,

(07:19):
but you're not private jet. Well yeah, but they're also
I I've also seen the kind of person who is
so hell bent on, you know, boosting their Instagram visibility
that they would go, you know, well out of their
resources to do something like that. That is the dumbest
thing I can think of doing. Spending five to pretend

(07:39):
that you have access to a private jet. It's just
it's just sad. Yeah, that's it's like renting of like
a dick extension. Yeah, it's it's like, for a second,
but what good is that? You're still the weird needle
dick guy. It's like paying a guy with a giant
dick to take sex photos that you then send or

(08:00):
dick vix that you then send to people who haven't
asked for them to take. If you have a big
dick even better. Yeah, it's like it's like, yeah, it's
just an arriborous of sad and then someone who's you know,
drawn by that is gonna be like, so can I
see it in Like, oh, uh I can do this
jet though bigger? Uh. Now, there's another fun quote from

(08:21):
that Bloomberg article quote A cheap way to get a
forty Wall Street addresses to grab space on the floor,
which is broken up into small offices. The firms listed
in the lobby directory for that floor include your trading room,
a foreign exchange operation ordered shut by an Australian court
in two thousand twelve, and the Asian am Incubator Co,
which Malaysian regulators put on a list of possible scams,
Stylish and international law whose founder was banned from practicing

(08:43):
law in Virginia, an Ero Capital group run by a
man convicted of credit card fraud. So wait, what's the
incubator scam? I don't know, we're making we're making money
off I only had so many times much time incubator
this week. Yeah, it's it's so, it's it's a scam
tower and specifically has a scam floor. Um so yeah,

(09:06):
so is everyone What's on the other floors also shady business?
Legitimate businesses? We just got lucky the cheap space. Yeah,
I'm sure there's someone legitimate working out of there, but
it it has a reputation with the SEC, like one
of the biggest hosts to fraudulent scams in the country. Yeah,
Like your easiest callers are just to go, like, look
at new businesses. Okay, it's probably shady. Yeah, but you

(09:31):
know that's the kind of thing only experts are going
to notice. Joe six packs thing at home in Milwaukee
or Pasadena or Phoenix, is going to see Wall Street
on an address and assume that it's like legit because
New York's got the most expensive real estate in the world.
You know now, uh. Trump University was not the brainchild
of Donald Trump. Michael Sexton, who went on to become
the Trump You CEO, had the idea to license the
Trump name to sell for profit education. This new university

(09:54):
was announced via a Trump Tower press conference on May
two thousand five. Here's Stephen open Offer, author of Trump
You quote, with Michael Sexton and other top executives by
a side. Donald Trump outlined how Trump University would consist
of online courses cd ROMs, and other learning programs for
business professionals. Bloomberg dot Com or put it on the
Splash unveiling that Donald launches his own online self directed

(10:16):
learning courses and they differ mightily from the usual fair,
wrote Brian Hindo. With business schools around the country unit
Donald Trump's reality TV vehicle, The Apprentice, is a teaching tool.
Perhaps it was just a matter of time before the
Donald cut out the middleman. On May, the real estate
mogul formerly launched Trump University, a foray into the fast
growing field of online education. Courses are expected begin as
earliest Thursday. Yeah. I just love trying to hang your

(10:41):
hat on the fact that you have cd ROMs as
part of your curriculum. I know, it's just a similar days.
I do miss C d rams. I do miss C
d rams now. Almost as soon as that press conference
was conferenced, the New York State Department of Education sent
a letter to Trump University. They politely pointed out that
using the term university was actually a violation of state

(11:02):
law because no one involved in the project had bothered
to go about getting the kind of accreditation that's actually
necessary to call yourself a university and offer classes and training.
Turns out you can't just do that. It turns out
there's like laws about what a university is. Sexton promised
the Department of Education that Trump University would not instruct
students in New York. He also promised to remove the
forty Wall Street address from the letter head and promotional material.

(11:22):
None of this was done. Sexton, Trump and company ignored
the Department of Education and just plout ahead with their
plan to offer a basically illegal fake school. Wow. Yeah,
it's amazing. Ah the fucking balls, ye man. Yeah, just
that's admirable to be a sociopath. Yeah, it's it seems

(11:43):
it's at least I don't know, consistency is impressive a
certain extent. Yeah, I think that's the through line of
this whole series, you know, Like every time I'm here,
it's just always like the balls, the balls, the balls,
that first move or advantage. Like nobody expects you to
be the guy who's going to do something. They're shitty,

(12:04):
so if you do it, there's a good chance and
one will stop you, right, Yeah, And that's how it works.
That's like, yeah, like if you see someone, you know,
eating out of a salad bar, like at a supermarket
salad bar at first, like, h I do that all
the time. Yeah, And look, no one's probably nobody ever
says anything, just if anything, speaking hushed tones to each other.
And I buy elephant garlic at the at the grocery store,

(12:27):
but I go to the self checkout thing. I make
it look like regular garlic. Just save these tidbits for
another podcast called life Hacks Thans. This is what you do.
It's all just it's the best of scams that I've
learned from behind the bastards. But in a way, that
any person can do it. Look, you know, there's there's

(12:48):
two kinds of scams in this world. There's there's scams
that hurt good people and there's scams that hurt giant
entities who can't feel pain. Sure, yeah, and then yeah
sometimes know but unless like you know, sometimes the people
working at the store, they get in trouble because you know,
the corporations are unforgiving. Sometimes I can find a victim

(13:09):
for all my thieving. It's terrible, this empathy that I
have a screw it. I mean, this is the show.
It's it's like, it's like stealing stamps from the post office.
How do you steal stamps from the post office? Oh,
the magician never reveals steals the stamps. But I love
that that's your flex know how to steal stamps from
the post office. On my new show Life Life works

(13:32):
with Robert Evans stealing from the post office. Oh boy, okay,
so where were we? Where where are we crimes? Yes?
Uh so Donald Trump uh and Mike Sexton and company
ignore the Department of Education and just continue to offer
an illegal fake school. And it's fine. Wow, that just happens.
Uh So, it might have seemed to a lot of

(13:55):
people that Trump University was somewhat legitimate at this point, uh,
partly because Sexton actually brought on accredited human beings to
design the courses. The chief learning officer was a guy
named Roger Shank, a PhD expert and learning science and
artificial intelligence. He's the CEO of Socratic Arts, a company
that designs curriculums. Several other legitimate educational experts were brought
into design courses. So you know, you've got to think

(14:18):
back to twos and five before Donald Trump is the
guy he is. He's on The Apprentice, but like he's
just like a rich guy. It's only been like the
first one season at that point, and most yeah, this
is like in the first season, and most people don't
know that for profit universities are a scam, you know,
right like that, like it's just an alternative. So this
does look like, okay, well this is this. They've people,
but where the capital come from? They just had those people.

(14:39):
Donald Trump put in three million dollars okay money, and
I hadn't said anything. He funds this, Okay, that makes sense.
He drops in three million dollars to get this thing
off the ground. So they hire people. They put in
some resources. It looks like they're trying to make a
legitimate ish, like within the standards of the right. It's
not like on the head of curriculum Mavis beac kind

(15:00):
of like what now she only teaches typing. Three online
courses were designed at first, each available for three dollars,
so it's not like a ridiculous rate either. Uh. These
courses offered instruction in real estate marketing and entrepreneurship. Students
worked online in groups of six to twelve and had
the freedom to finish the courses on their own time frame.
Here's how Stephen Gilpin describes these early classes. Quote. Entrepreneurship

(15:21):
students would be asked to assume the role of a
venture capitalist and analyze a business plan. They would then
submit their work to classmates for a peer review. Of
course would consist of three such assignments. People learned the
hard way. Trying to replicate the Clastomer experience isn't particularly effective,
said Michael Sexton. Education is worthless without feedback. This this
system enables, however, many students we have to get live
feedback about their work. This is not for somebody who

(15:42):
wants to put a sheep skin on a wall and
think that is going to meaningfully help their career. So wait,
what's that mean? I do? I think like a like
a diploma like this isn't just call that a sheep skin.
I'd never heard that before, but I feel like everyone
who works with Donald Trump was born in the twenties, right,
it's us is weird when diploma was on a sheep skin?
Yea um. But you can also see, like already it's

(16:06):
kind of a con because you're having your work graded
by like when you put it that way, it sounds legitimate,
but your works being graded by your fellow students and
because that's cheaper, right, and then they don't give a
funk either, Like that all depends on what those other
students are putting in. If if that was me, I
wouldn't read anybody's thing, and I would be like, yeah,
it felt a little derivative, felt a little derivative, and
that would be my my feedback for everything, because I'm

(16:28):
not reading it. I'm not doing the work. No, not
if you're paying three hundred bucks to supposedly because I'm
swindling myself with my lack of effort, the scam within
the scan, Yeah, so at this stage, it's definitely a
kind of con, but it's not really much more of
a con than other for profit universities. Right, students aren't
paying insane prices for these courses, so nobody's like, nobody's

(16:51):
gonna go deep in debt paying three hundred bucks for
three courses. Yeah for nothing, that's nine hundred bucks. You know.
That sucks to lose, but it's not that bad. Yeah,
for information probably could have got from like googling, like
how do I become a business I don't have become
a businessman. Yeah, And compared to like full Sale University,
like Trump University kind of verged on legitimate, Like, like,
it seems like a pretty good deal beef with full Sale,

(17:14):
isn't that? Are they that egregious with their I remember
as a kid, all the video game magazines I would read,
like PC Gamer would always have ads for full Sale,
and one of my friends wound up paying them a
lot of money because that was his lifelong dream and
he didn't know any better, And like it's the bullshit
thing to do. Somebody wants to make video games and
you trick them into paying a bunch of money. Uh,

(17:35):
your dicks is your friend finally working in video games. No, no,
that never worked out. You know what will work out?
These fine products and possibly services uh that we advertise
on our show, although because it's randomly slotted in, it
might be an ad for another podcast, and then my
products and services line will be nonsense. But I don't know, myles,
I I don't know what explanation. I don't know what

(17:57):
else to do. Well, I'm ready. This is the world
we live in. Uh, roll the roulette dice. We're back?
Are we back? We are back? In the USSR. Well,
that would be nice. If there's one thing I know
about the U s SR, it's that they loved podcasting.

(18:19):
Big fans, big fans of the podcast. I think they
invented it. Probably that sounds right. They invented the pod
for sure. Oh yeah, because whales are all communists podcasting podcasting. Man,
do you see that documentary Icarus? Oh? Yeah, fucking amazing.
I love that Russian doctor the balls to saw out

(18:40):
of trapdoor in the wall to swap out your en samples.
I mean, you know what, maybe you do deserve it.
I I have no problem with athletes doping, Yeah, I mean, honestly,
don't I don't get the big deal. Just let them
off fucking dope and let's just let's see who's the
first person in whose heart explodes a well exactly and
that's who loses. Is Yeah, I would just have like

(19:02):
a special version of the Olympics where we do see
look if you if you can put the cheat codes on,
how far can you take this the way I think
it should work? So I've done. I have a friend
that I occasionally have drinking contests with, and the rule
is always whoever you can drink the most without vomiting,
and so we try to like finish like a like
a two liter keg of beer. Okay, so if you
finish first, but you drink so fast that you puke

(19:23):
it up, you still lose. That's how drugging yourself in
a sporting event should work. If you get away from
it for X years, you were smart enough. You know,
Lance Armstrong, you know your four years clear. Okay, you
get to keep your titles. That's how I feel, and
it should be fine for me to steal garlic from Ralph.
I mean, look, you're just you're just upgrading. I'm just

(19:43):
not gonna pay three dollars and a half dollars for
elephant garlic. It's ludicrous. Okay, look you don't. I can
see it in your eyes. Man, Yeah, you're not gonna
pay three dollars steal it from the damn farm if
I got it. Yeah, yeah, okay, let's get back to
this grift that was not kind hearted like my elephant. Yes. Yeah, yeah,
that's a healthy grift, I feel. Uh so. The first

(20:05):
major textbook for this not a university, was called Trump
one oh one The Way to Success. You can still
find the book on Amazon dot com. It's a little
over two hundred pages, which seems like a lot to
say inherit seven million dollars from your Dad. I found
a booklist review that describes the chapters, So I'm gonna
read that this might this might teach you enough to
start and realistic. Yeah, let me get it. This collection

(20:25):
of Trump's wisdom, inspiration, and advice is organized around twenty
distinctive motivational themes, including don't waste your life on work
you don't love, set the bar high, tough at out,
be persistent. The proof is in the doing, learned by
doing and taking risks. Your gut is your best advisor.
Listen to your instincts. Negotiate to win, use diplomacy, Swim

(20:46):
against the tide. The comfort zone can pull you under,
wait for the right pitch. Business success is all about
patients and timing and do more, always, do more, constantly,
try to top yourself. I feel like I understand his
tweeting strategy better after the Wow. Yeah, those are such
empty like yeah phrases. Yeah, that's like all those like

(21:08):
motivational posters from like the nineties that would just be
like a hot air balloom yeah, and be like never
stop out doing yourself. Negotiate to win higher heights. Yeah,
use diplomacy. And I'm gonna guess that chapter didn't go
go into much more detailed than use diplomacy. Yeah, yeah,
what a guy to get and that sentences used diplomacy

(21:28):
if you're a loser, If you're a loser, and next
chapter falling out of control. Okay, now, Miles, you just
did a pretty good Trump and I know you do
a fantastic Australian. Can you do Australian Trump? Oh you know,
he's a bit like this, So if you're Australian Trump,

(21:48):
that might be might smoke another blunt. Yeah, alright, alright,
we'll get another blunt in here. Uh. In promotional material
for the book, Donald Trump himself explained to the value
of the is weighty tone. Another purpose of this book
is to introduce you to Trump University, which grew out
of my desire to impart the business knowledge I accumulated
over the years and to find a practical, convenient way

(22:09):
to teach success. Trump University doesn't just bear my name.
I'm actively involved in it. I participated in just in
creating the curricula, and my words, ideas, and image have
been woven into the course as we provide. I'm deeply
inactively involved in Trump University because I firmly believe in
the power of education and its function as an engine
of success. I want to help people, and simply put
the Trump University students want to be successful. I'm on

(22:32):
their side. Wow. That's uh again, Like even if for
all the amount of words that were in there, yeah
a lot of them. Yeah, you could really just boil
that down to one sentence, is this is good and
I and I'm involved. Yeah, this is good and I'm involved.
Go to school. That's it. Yeah. All that other ship
that's just so funny is like it reminds me of

(22:53):
me when I used to write essays in high school
or like you're trying to hit that word count. Oh
my god, I would fucking have like ninety word sentences. Yeah,
you know, just to just say, like Cardinal Richelieu was
Louis the thirteenth Greatest Advisor or whatever the funk, whichever
Louis that was the fourteenth, it was one of the Louis.
You know, not enough kids named Richelieu anymore. Yeah, well,

(23:14):
you know, yeah, it's part of the pacification of this country.
I don't name. If you're out there and you've got
a child, name it, yeah, name it Ricola. Oh yeah,
those are great ments. Branded content. Yeah, Ricola. If you
want to sponsor the show, we'll find a baby to name.
Oh yeah, yeah, we can do that for exchange my name. No, Ricola,
I think we have that power. Okay. At the outset

(23:36):
Trump University, students were promised classes that would be taught
by actual business school professors would communicate with students through
an online bulletin board, so you know, like a real
online university. There would be regular Q and A sessions
where students could ask Mr Trump for advice on their businesses.
So this was build as a practical business training program
where students would receive thoughtful and semi direct advice from
one of the world's most famous businessmen. In the press

(23:58):
release for Trump University, Donald Trump claimed that his whole
goal with the project was to give back to the
world and create quote a legacy as an educator. He
even promised to hand any profits from his business over
to an unspecified charity, an unspecified Well, it's always going
to be an unspecified charity. I'm gonna start doing that.

(24:18):
That's fucking genius. All of the profits from their show
are donated to an unsci specified chair, which is me
buying uh survivalist compound and organ right that unspecified chair
specific of hiding and well, yeah you see right. Oh
my god, what a good way to just just to
wiggle your way out of anything. You know, it's amazing.
Did you do some did you clean up the house?

(24:38):
I did some unspecified specified cleaning, unspecified things, unspecified shorts, specified,
unspecified charity. Yeah, he should make a T shirt like that.
Cops pull you over, do you have a license? I
have an unspecified unspecified license of sorts. Yeah, oh boy,

(25:01):
Oh yeah, so I didn't even read the last Trump
quote about how this isn't about money. Here's Donald again.
If I had a choice of making lots of money
or imparting lots of knowledge, I think I'd be as
happy to impart knowledge is to make money. Get the
fuck out. Oh my god. He still doesn't actually say
that imparting knowledge is more important, Like he sets it
up that that's how. But then he's like, yeah, they're

(25:22):
both equal, They're both equal, and you know whatever. I
like money, but I like money. Yeah, Now, when to
say knowledge is money? Knowledge is money? That is what
they say with Betsy Betsy DeVos is the secretary of education?
Or money is knowledge? Yeah, the ability to access knowledge? Yeah,
that's probably more. That's probably more accurate. Yeah. Now, in

(25:42):
two dozen five, the Apprentice had, as we just discussed,
just finished its first season. It was one of the
most popular shows on television for reasons I will never understand.
H In addition to that, the real estate market was
in the midst of an outrageous boom cycle that would
later give way to the Great Crash of two thousand eight.
So for a year in change, Trump you existed as
a semi legit seeming adult education program for people interested

(26:03):
in dipping their toes into the booming real estate market
makes sense, But by two thousand seven, the market was
starting to look distinctly less boomy and more busty. Was
the economy started to shift, so did Trump University. Roger
Shank and all the other professional teachers and curriculum designers
who had been hired at the onset of the project
were let go. Shank was told that the school had
burnt through the three million in funding Donald Trump had

(26:25):
pumped into the venture. Shank later told The Daily Beast quote,
they put a certain amount of money into it, and
then the money stopped suddenly. I said, what happened? And
they said, well, we just don't have any more money
and we need to make money quickly in some other way.
Oh that's what you want to hear from a college. Wait,
that's what the college told him. They fired, And I

(26:47):
guess it's a person at the but like, we need
money really fast, and it ain't gonna be like you're
great at this, but now we got to make more money,
so we're gonna find some other way to do it
in our college. So wait to know what that plan was. Oh,
it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun. So. Ronald
Shackenburg was a sales manager at Trump University from late
two thousand and six to two thousand seven. He later

(27:09):
recalled this shift in a deposition that he made during
one of the numerous lawsuits as a result of this
fake college. Quote this is Shackenburg. Around February two seven,
the direction of Trump University's business drastically changed to live
events and seminars driven by high pressure front end salesman
inexperienced in real estate making high pressure sales. So these
live events were built as workshops and learning courses, but

(27:31):
there were really just excuses to upsell students on more
expensive training rather than using curriculum designed by actual experts.
In anything Trump, You've brought in a guy named Mark Dove.
Shackenburg described him as a guy who quote essentially owns
that front end, high pressure speaker scam world provided speakers, instructors, mentors,
and sales people to Trump University, and these people brought
with them their own programs, which turned into Trump University programs.

(27:54):
I was very uncomfortable with this new direction of business,
as I believed it to be very unethical. So there
were good people involved the beginning whatever. They probably don't
fully understand that kind of you know, scam artists that
the president is no nobody. I mean the two thousand
five really different times. It's yeah, it's the Apprentice guy.
Yeah he's popular on TV. Yeah. Check, we'll teach people

(28:17):
some real stuff. And then so the Mark Dove guy,
they said he owns like just sort of like the
same people who probably do like timeshare sales, the exact
same come here, and then when they'll fucking locked you
in the room. So they switch over to live events,
and these live events are administrated by people who are
billed as teachers, but who are actually saying closers. Yeah,
they're just closing exactly. It must have been so fun, Yeah,

(28:38):
it must have been great. They made a lot of money.
He's so full of ship, just go up there with
all this confidence, like I can't wait for you guys
to be flying on your own jets. Look at this rolex.
I'm gonna give someone this rolex by the end of tonight,
because guess what, by the tomorrow morning, I'm gonna have
enough for three more of these. I don't know if
you could see Miles, but I just voted for you

(28:58):
to be president. I should just I couldn't stop myself.
I'm going to start a new con Man podcast from
selling people dreams. Yeah, I mean all podcasts are at
con if they're successful. That's true. People don't even know.
It's not even a guy named Stalin. Oh yeah, I
made that up for this man's podcast. You. I'm telling you,
Alex Jones, just me in a wig, Alex Jones, my

(29:19):
friend Alex Jones. So uh, this is around the time
two seven that Stephen Gilpin, the author of that book,
got hired by the university. He had a lot of
experience in real estate and his business had fallen on
hard times as the market started to collapse. They hired
him initiatively to be a one man phone line for
Trump you students who had questions about real estate matters.
Gilpin recalled in his book being surprised to learn that

(29:42):
nobody else involved in the management or operations of Trump
University had any kind of background in real estate. It's
a real estate school run by people who had never
done real estate. Whatever do you work just for Hilton
Trump Foundation? It was the Trump Foundation. Trum found Okay,
anything else, No, no, I've just been building people out

(30:03):
of money for a while. Okay. Now. During this whole time,
Trump University ads continued to brag an official promotional material
that all the instructors at these live events were real
estate experts handpicked by Donald Trump. The Attorney General of
New York State later disputed this in a filing quote.
In fact, respondents lacked substantiation for the claims that their
instructors and mentors were successful real estate entrepreneurs. Not a

(30:25):
single one was handpicked by Donald Trump. Many it came
to Trump University from jobs having little to do with
real estate investments, and some came to Trump University shortly
after their real estate investing caused them to go into bankruptcy.
Failed real estate investors and people who don't know anything
about real estate, and if they do, they've just bankrupted themselves,

(30:45):
bankrupted themselves. And like, well, I guess I'll teach people
how to do this. Oh, it's it's the American dream, baby,
Just keep failing on up. God, this is such a
great country. We really, we really nailed a lots. You know.
It's all if you if you just lie for seventies
straight years and you're a tall, white guy. Sometimes not,

(31:08):
but always if you're a tall white guy, there's no
limit to what you can achieve. Oh no, no, no,
you could even one day be the President of the
United States. You could be. You could be. That's what
I'm going to do after I shift next year and
start writing for the Daily Wire. Uh yeah, because you
want to have that like, you want to have that
arc where you're like, oh no, I used to be

(31:28):
a leftist. I used to go, yeah, you could, and
you could probably primary Trump. Oh yeah, well I won't
be old quite old enough. Oh yeah, he'll be at
office by that time, doctor primary President Ann Coulter from
the right. From the right, it would be the evans Ingram,
the evans Ingram, Jesus Christ. Okay, so there's a video

(31:55):
produced around this time two thousand seven called Welcome to
Trump University. I want to play this video to you, Miles,
and I want you the listener to hear it, because
that way you'll get an idea of how this was
sold a perspective clients. Now, I do want to say
up front, this is the only audio of Trump we're
going to have in the episode. I had to have
a little bit of how he presented this, but we
all hear him enough. Yeah, so this is all you're
gonna have to listen to this promo video. Yeah. At

(32:26):
Trump University, we teach success. That's what it's all about. Success.
It's going to happen to you. Donald Trump is without question,
the world's most famous businessman. As a real estate developer,
he has reshaped the New York skyline with some of
that great cities, most prestigious and elegant building great la.

(32:47):
Donald Trump brings his years of experience to the world
of business education with a launch of Trump University. If
you're going to achieve anything, you have to take action,
and action what Trump University is all about. That's a
small part of Trump the University. Trump University is about
knowledge about a lot of different things. Above all, it's

(33:09):
about how to become successful. That's not enough of that.
What it was, I mean, you know it was so bad. Yeah.
I really feel bad for people who don't have the
media savvy to watch something like that. I mean they go, oh,
this stinks like ship. Now. I think some of that

(33:30):
is that, you know, we're we're this was fourteen years ago. Yeah,
but we were all a little less savvy. But hell,
but still that's bad. That fucking the voiceover was from
like a b action movie from the eighties. Yeah, just
as someone like you who reads stuff in the microphones
for a living. That was really bad voice. But also
just like the tone of his voice, it was so dated,

(33:51):
like that style of voice was like that's such a yeah,
And it was like Dean Marciano is there, you know,
disgrace detective if his family was killed. Like that's the
kind of weird tone it was. And then it was
all like not even stock video stock footage with like that.
They just animated to move like Ken Burns effect and

(34:11):
they're like, I guess that's fine. And then Trump University
was just a graphic of a door. It wasn't even
like a building. Oh I do love that like kind
of ravy music that kicked on with Donald Trump start.
We all started dancing to it a little bit. It
was bizarre. I just I've always wondered what it would
be like to run into Donald Trump at like a

(34:32):
dance club in Berlin, And that's the closest I'm ever
gonna come to knowing. Yeah, and or he's sitting on
the corner of a desk like it looked like he
was in that club. Action. What did you say? Trump?
Action is what it takes to be successful in Trump
universe is all about action again, what does that even mean?
What does that even the action of giving me a
credit card? Yeah? Sure, yeah, yeah yeah uh okay. So

(34:55):
the first Trump University live events took place in Florida
in May of two thousand seven. The second one took
place in Los Angeles around a month later. That is
where you'd want to start a scam Florida, then l
a sensible. So far, each of these live events had
about five attendees that The events were free, but attendees
were encouraged to sign up for longer paid workshops. I
see that were happening that day. No, no, no, that

(35:17):
happened later, okay, so that you'd come, okay, So that
was just to be like, oh, yeah, yeah, come, we'll
tell you about it, and they'll teach you well that
we'll teach you about real estate for free, right, and
we'll just tell you just enough vague half sentences that
you want to learn a little more. The real meat
is to take these these longer seminars. Way, will you
hear about the cost of these I gotta ask up front,

(35:38):
how how much do you think people are spending on
these seminars? So and this is what two thousand two
seven seven, Oh, people didn't know any better, and there
man maybe like two grand Okay, okay, I'm gonna just
read a little passage from Stephen Gilpin's The new business
model was designed to operate in two stages, first offering

(36:00):
aspiring real estate magnates a free ninety minute profit from
Real Estate Orientation also known as the preview, where they'd
be pressured to pay for the second stage, a three
day profit from Real Estate Workshop. During the workshop, they'd
be enticed and controlled into buying one of the Trump
Elite packages, which were offered at three price points nine thousand,
ninety five dollars Bronze, N four d ninety five dollars, Silver,

(36:22):
and then the whopper at thirty four thousand Ryde. Didn't
stop there. During the Gold Delete program, there was constant
pressure to purchase other Trump University affiliate programs and products,
varying in price from four five dollars to nine thousand,
nine five dollars. As a result, students could ultimately spend
upwards of seventy tho dollars Wait, so the the first

(36:46):
thing is free. First thing is free to get you
to the second thing, which is only to get you
to this. So how much is the second thing? Bucks?
Sometimes sometimes a thousand, Some people pay like five hundred.
It was flexible a little bit, but right, whatever it
is to get you there, because they were really going
to rip your head off next dollars. I mean, if
you're fucking losering at the bronze for ten grand and

(37:07):
if you're really trying to um and I really want to. Yeah,
they're just getting put together in there. We're gonna get
into their promotional material and not promotional, there's sales material
and a little bit here. So the first live events
were such a hit that Trump University almost immediately jettisoned
all of its actual classes. Many of the course books
continued to be sold on Amazon, and in fact you
can buy some today, but the study courses were dropped

(37:27):
in the website stopped being updated. The purpose of Trump
University from here on out was to sucker rubes into
free investment seminars to try and get them to pay
outrageous sums of money for Trump Gold Elite packages. Now,
what are the path What we don't do know, it's
in the package. Yeah. So if you're paying thirty five
thousand dollars, you're doing like a series, like a three
day series of of workshops. You're getting access to what

(37:48):
they build as like this uh like secret listing of
distressed properties that you can buy that other people don't
have access to. You get access to this hot line
and you get three days with a mentor who flies
in to help you like understand your local real estate
market and start setting up deals. They also promised that
they'll teach you how to do stuff like get your
credit rating increased, presumably so that you can buy property.

(38:10):
And they also promise you sources of hard money where
you won't have to put your own money up. We'll
we'll hook you up at our secret list of people
who are willing to invest in your put up money
in front for you. Yeah. What so that's what they're
selling people. What they're telling people is what you get,
And I'm sure what they got was something was different yea.
And what our listeners are going to get now is

(38:31):
some ads and we're back talking about Trump you true University.
I'm glad to do this, you know, with another fellow
Trump you alumna. Yeah, yeah, it's been a lot of
This is singular alumnus, alumno whatever, alumni or two of

(38:55):
us together, alumni, two of us together. Are you going
to the reunion? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's uh, well,
I forget where it is. I think the Queen Mary. Yeah.
I think it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a
great time. Although I heard it's not an open bar.
Oh that's a shame, but it's fine. I love that
Trump vodka. Yeah, man made from the finest old old

(39:18):
potatoes of all of the liquor to brand after yourself. Yeah,
Trump vodka. Only dan Ackroid has been able to get
away with that. Yeah. Well, people like to drink out
of a skull. People like to drink out of a skull.
People like to drink out of a skull more than
they like to drink out of a tower. Oh yeah,
that's the lesson of Is that the bottle first? Yeah,
it's like shaped like one of his towers. Yet. Well,

(39:39):
it didn't work out, but it's okay. I think he's
doing all right now. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see now.
During this whole time, The Apprentice continue to air, and
Trump's personal brand continue to rise among people who assume
anyone wearing a suit on TV is a successful businessman.
According to the New York Attorney General, Quote Trump University
speakers repeatedly insinuated that Donald Trump would appear at the

(39:59):
Three Days Men are claiming that he is going to
be in town and often drops by and might show
up or had just left, or bated students with the
promise of a surprise or a special guest speaker. As
students later discovered these claims were untrue, rather than being
photographed with Donald Trump, they were offered the chance to
have photos taken with a life size photo of Donald Trump.
I remember, I remember this thing. It was like a cutout, right,

(40:21):
basically it was. It's just a cut out of Trump.
I love that kind of ship. You just missed him.
He was just in here and he wanted to tell
you guys. He told me personally to tell you guys
that what you were doing is going to change your lives. Ah,
he's going to be sick that he missed you guys.
He's so bummed out. He is so bummed out. Anyway,

(40:43):
if you just sign up, Mark, let me talk to
your fucking check bounced club free knowledge asshole. Trump University was,
of course, deeply mixed up with the Trump Foundation, since
that's sort of how the now president preferred to run
all of his businesses. Every check the business issued was
signed by either Donald or one of his kids. Donald

(41:05):
didn't have much, if anything to say about the curriculum,
such as it was, but he approved every single line
of ad copy written about the business, and he testified
to this in the court, like I approved all of
the ads, all of the promotional material. That's the only
thing he did. And what were those ads? Like, Well,
I found a couple and we'll put them up on
our side behind the bastards dot com. One of them

(41:26):
features Donald Trump looking like Donald Trump in a suit
with a big quote above a bunch of small text,
and the big quote says, if you're not a millionaire
by December two thousand eight, you didn't attend by foreclosure workshop.
Another has the Trump University logo at the top, which
features like a lion like rearing like a like a
design of a lion rearing like he's a fucking British nobleman. Uh,

(41:47):
and then it says unheard of real estate market factors
have created a all Caps Bold Perfect Storm of Profit
Opportunity free introductory class. Reserve your seat now attend this
exciting introductory class and learned how you can profit all
caps from the biggest real estate cash explosion in decades.
Do you have like old ads from like snake oil

(42:08):
salesman from like the like the Wild West, Because I
feel like those ads essentially read like have this same
kind of presentation and enthusiast sort of capitalization, like you'll
never believe this thing from the Orient. It definitely looks
like some of the bottles I've seen of like children's
medicinal heroine, like Amazing Tonic. Yeah, wow, amazing, the perfect

(42:31):
storm for you to profit. Yeah. Now, when we talk
about cons like this, there's always a risk of like
coming down too hard on the people who fell for
the scam. That's something I want to try to avoid
because it is my firm belief that just about everyone
has something they will fall for in the same way
these people fell for Trump University. Gilpin does a good
job of sort of standing up for these people in
his book, which is one reason that I have some
respect for him. He's not mean about these people. Um,

(42:55):
they aren't dumb folks. Most of them were like nearing
retirement age and it's spent years as like plumbers or
like one of them worked for like an aeronautics company
and stuff. They just didn't know anything about real estate, right,
And they've saved up like a good amount, got a
nest egg money, and they can just piss it away
at this thing. Yeah, they want to, they want to
try it out. They want to like make more money
for retirement or something like that. And Donald Trump is

(43:17):
the most famous person they know in real estate because
they don't know anything about real estate. Yeah. Yeah. Vanity
Fair did a great job of collecting several of these
people's stories. I'd like to read an excerpt from their article.
It starts with the tale of June Harris from White Plains,
New York. She took a Trump real estate course and
found it valuable, so she signed up for a free
session in June two thousand nine after seeing a newspaper

(43:39):
ad quote. Participants were told to keep a thousand dollars
in their pockets at all times as a confidence builder
for wealth. Harris signed up for the three day seminar,
which cost her seven seven dollars and fifty cents. She
spent the weekend of June nineteenth at the seminar, where
she was encouraged to call her credit card company and
increase her line of credit. They said that we should
invest in property without every touching our own assets, she

(43:59):
wrote in a Septemp for two thousand twelve affidavit. The
instructor said, if we surmounted the fear of losing money,
then we would actually make money. She was then encouraged
to sign up for the Trump Gold Mentorship Program at
a cost of thirty five thou dollars, described as a
year long group of seminars and private consultations with Trump instructors.
When Harris declined, the agent was very upset and quickly
hung up on the phone with me. She wrote in

(44:19):
her affidavit. Yeah, can you uh, at least she didn't
get scammed out of the thirty five I know, but
I just like, this person is probabing so terrible on
the phone too. She's like, I don't know, it's just
a lot of money. Come on, you want to be
poor all your life? Else you want to be poor?
Come on, get it fucking together. You don't want what
Donald Trump's offering you. You're not grateful. Oh okay, so

(44:42):
you're an idiot. Yeah, okay, that's fine. Then dumbass, then
don't take up our time on our phone line. Well
I don't think. Just shut the funk up. Click. Oh
my god. Trump University. So one of the things that
was advertised about these courses was that students would be
able to learn how to increase their credit score and
boost their credit limits Jim Ablie so that they could
again buy properties to flip. Trump You employees did coach

(45:04):
students through how to get their credit limits increased, largely
through lying. Students were taught to list their expected income
as a result of the work in real estate they
hadn't done yet. They were told to tell their banks
that finding the documentation to prove any of this would
be too hard since they needed the limits increased now.
Somehow this often worked because credit card companies and banks
are grifters too. Yeah, They're like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine,

(45:27):
we'll get some money either way. It was amazing saying
fake it to you, making the sense that like, oh, well,
my projected income, and then they just right there there,
you're gonna be a millionaire projected probably I'm thinking three
to four million, Yeah, three or four million years. It's
about right, seems about right, yeah, net yeah, based on
my experience cleaning my apartment, Yeah, I think I can
make that much of real. Yeah. Yeah, that's based on

(45:50):
what I've been reading you. Yeah, that seems about right. Okay. Now,
the credit increases were actually important because they were basically
the only way normal people could hope to put together
the twenty THIRTI dollars needed to pay for gold and
silver level packages. So that this didn't seem crazy, Trump
you employees would point to the American higher education system.
University is expensive, after all. According to Time Quote, the

(46:12):
teachers were always to be called faculty. A crest that
looked like it was borrowed from Harvard or Yale was
embedded in the logo, and admissions department was listed on
the website. The marketing guidelines had sections called catch phrases, buzzwords,
and tone that encourage the use of language such as elitist,
ivy league, and think of Trump University is a real
university with a real admissions process, i e. Not everyone

(46:32):
who applies is accepted. Now. Gilpin points out that Trump
did this too in interviews and speeches where he had
to make the case that his fake university was worth
the money. Quote. Donald Trump often implied that Trump University
was somehow inhabited the same intellectual universe as Harvard University.
In terms of cost, he was not far off. According
to the Harvard website, the total two thousand, fifteen to
sixteen cost tuition at Harvard College without financial aid was

(46:54):
forty five thousand, two hundred seventy eight dollars, actually less
than the so called retail value of the Trump gold
Elete package, because he said that the thirty dollar package
was worth forty dollars. Oh wow, because of all the
savings of the savings. Hey, I'm taking a bath on this, man,
I'm taking a bath on this. I'm fucking I'm just
costing Donald Trump. Honestly, you know, if if all you
guys sign up, and I hate to say this, if

(47:16):
all of you guys sent up for the goal package,
I'm gonna be totally upside honest thing. Yeah, I'm gonna
be deep in the red. But you know what, just
to know that you guys are going to be successful,
I'm willing to take that loss. Wow. It's like I'm there.
I It's like I'm there. I wish we could get
a bunch of materials and we should just we should
rob them. Can we just do an episode where we

(47:37):
run the Trump You I have the hundred and thirty
five page Trump University playbook. You know why it's it's
public domain because of the laws, because of the loss. Yeah,
I just I would love to just like read those,
like what the style was, and just hear recordings. We're
going to pressure people. Okay, We're going to great some
of that, maybe not as much as I should have

(47:57):
included again, these poor people too to know that they
were sort of like the secret to making money is
you need to call your bank right now and get
that credit extended because you need to pay for this
because I'm a uh, it's amazing, it really is. Now.
Like most big businesses, Trump University had a company playbook,

(48:18):
which we just talked about, a hundred thirties some page
document that is now on my iPad next to five
biographies of Hitler. It included everything from how far ahead
of time employees should show up before siminar to what
they should wear in order to make the company look good.
H It also included a lot of advice on how
speakers could convince someone to drop thirty five dollars on
this bullshit. Thanks to the shameful mountain of lawsuits this

(48:38):
fake school inspired, we have access to this wonderful document.
Politico actually has it available as a PDF, so you
can download it right now on our site. Yeah yeah,
we'll put the link up there. Most of it's boring,
but the part that talked about how to sell the
workshops to reticent students is really interesting to me, especially
since one of the few things we know that Donald
Trump actually did for Trump University was approved the playbook.

(49:00):
This is all Trump and possibly Trump dictated in some case.
Do you think that's the case or like, because I
can't imagine him putting work into anything. Someone else did
it and he goes yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. But
one thing that's consistent, even when you hear about like
Roger Stone and he working on those racist ads against
the Mohawk tribe to try to like get their casinos band,
he was noted as specifically approving the ads. I think

(49:21):
that might just be something he really does care about.
Approving ad copy, add copy and anything and marketing material,
marketing material, because I mean, that's that's what he's good
at right. And I guess in a way that's the
written version of his identity being out there too, so
he wants to be careful with it. I guess I
would not surprise if that he put in legitimate work
just to make sure wouldn't be surprised if he goes,

(49:44):
oh yeah it's fine, okay, yeah yeah, if he if
he's just like, yeah, it's whatever, oh yeah, because he
would also brag he's like, yeah, I did all the work.
I actually typed everything with a typewriter, with a typewriter,
and I didn't even look at my fingers, didn't look
at my fingers. Did the home row Oh man, there
you go. I don't know if he's ever typed, you

(50:06):
know he has, but he's like for the camera and
he just uses index fingers. Yeah, he's a hunting pecker
for sure, and he only uses one fucking hand. Shots fired. Sorry.
So here's how the Trump University playbook advises an instructor
on how to deal with the student who keeps asking
what inconvenient questions? Someone who has too many questions for
the sales teacher. I'm surprised there was some derogatory nickname

(50:28):
in the manual it's like, if you get one of these,
it gets kind of main actually, okay, okay, so uh,
here's the handbook instructing the teacher. The more concerns you
have to resolve, the more power you have given the
other person, and they will begin to enjoy the power
on a subconscious level. They don't even realize it, but
having us wait on them gives them a feeling of
supremacy and they feel they are an important sale to us.

(50:49):
Do not get in conversations where you answer one question
after the other yet getting no closer to the sale whatsoever.
Irrelevant questions take too much time. You lose power by
answering them. The person asking the question always has the power.
You should only allow potential students to ask one of
these questions and then take back the power when you
answer one of these questions, give a quick answer, and
then start asking questions. Examples, I'm not sure who developed

(51:11):
the property. I think the real question we should be
asking ourselves is are you ready to change your current lifestyle? Oh?
Do not let potential students have more than one concern.
What they're like, it's my health. You know, that's money
that could be going to some medical treatments that would
allow me to extend my life to keep doing this.

(51:33):
It's remarkable because if you if you've ever bought like
a Newish car, any car, really, if you buy it
from like a lot, you're spending in that ballpark ten
to thirty five dollars, and you're you're going up against
like a salesman. But they'll always answer, They'll lie in
their answers to questions, but they'll answer a lot of questions.
Oh they know it seems shady to do anything else. Well,
but the thing is at least they know they're selling

(51:55):
you a car. Yeah, it is a thing that does it. Yeah,
and like they you can actually drive away in it
and it will do probably most of what it advertises.
Whereas this is like you gotta do this high pressure
ship to be like, look, bro, if they're if they're
asking too many questions, these are the type people we're
gonna buy who are gonna fall for it anyway. Yeah,
it's not like like fudging when someone asks if a
cars like undercoding, like how well it works? Oh yeah, yeah,

(52:17):
you're like, oh those weather mats all whether Yeah, you're
gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine. Yeah, they'll, they'll,
they'll do great. Yeah. So the playbook notes that students
should be asked what they do and how many hours
a week they are working, as well as whether or
not they love their job. The reason to ask this
is not simple human interest, But in case someone says
they don't have the time to sign up for a
three day workshop, you can come at them strongly and

(52:40):
throw this right back at them. Well, insert students name.
The only reason you don't have the time right now
is because you're working forty five hours at a job
you don't enjoy. I won't even bring up the hours
after you factor and all the time you sit in traffic,
taxes and everything else that's taken out of your paycheck.
Have you edit up what you net an hour? I
bet you wouldn't like that number. You're trying to fool yourself,
but you're not fooling me. You came down here today

(53:01):
because you're tired of killing yourself just to survive. We
will show you how to thrive in real estate and
control your own financial destiny. And the best part is
when you double your income from real estate part time,
you can quit your job work twenty five hours a
week and create more wealth than you have ever dreamed of. Now,
let's take it one step at a time. Follow me,
and let's get you enrolled. Listen closely to the orientation.
It's possible if you do exactly what we tell you,

(53:22):
we may be able to start helping you put together
a deal next Saturday. Congratulations. Oh wow, what a journey.
Just look at you make forty cents an hour? What
the fuck? Wow? The and it literally ends with congratulations. Congratulations.
Holy there's an exclamation point yeah to be like, yeah,

(53:45):
will you'll be closing a deal. Congratulations. You've decided you're
doing it, and I'm and honestly you're The future generations
of your family are also thinking to thank you. Right
this second, babies are going to be out of the
time stream and give you their things. How does that feel?
How does what feel? To start a dynasty? You really

(54:05):
should have written copy for the man I sell cars?
Oh yo. The people you learned like I wasn't really
good at closing because I couldn't lie, but I picked up.
So I'm just you know, like anything that's funny to me,
Like I'll kind of obsessed about And they were the
people around me were fucking in like they would say

(54:26):
ship like that, and they'll be like, hey, look, you
know a man or a woman come in for the truck.
Obviously gotta sell the man, okay. But here's the thing, man,
you can't ignore the wife man because guess what the
neck it fucking turns the head. Okay. And if you
don't tend to that, the sales fucking done. And you're like,
holy sh oh my god. I'm like, wow, is this
something you thought of? Like, yeah, as I live, because

(54:48):
I live in my van. Still, there's a guy who
did live in this van. He was just saving his money,
so he just it was really weird. He lived in
his van and but was like closing deals and I'm
not sure what happened to him. I mean, he's probably
like Eric Prince's weird bootleg Air Force or bootleg wall
building company. Jesus. So, I had to fight myself over

(55:12):
how exactly how much of this stuff to include. Uh.
I kind of fell down a route rabbit hole when
I started reading this play. Um, I I stepped into
this expecting to find sleeves, but I didn't anticipate just
how abusive it would all sound. So here's here's like
a chunk of a Q and a between a student
and a sales teacher objection. I like this, but I'll
do it later. And here's what the teacher's supposed to

(55:33):
say in response, I'm glad you made it down here
today and didn't procrastinate like you're doing. Now. Have you
added up how much money you have lost by procrastinating
in your life? It sounds like it's a very bad
habit for you. If I had ten thousand dollars in
my hand and I said, and I said, I'll give
it to you for two thousand dollars, would you have
to think about it or make a smart financial decision? Oh? Well,
fuck you, it's amazing. Well, congrat but it looks like

(56:02):
you're doing that thing you always do, always do you
piece of ship. Okay, loser, keep pissing the dollars away. Yeah, yeah,
enjoy living in the garbage trash man. Uh yeah, you
said your mom passed away. Huh Wow, that's a shame.
Was it from shame? Was it from shame? It was
from shame because because of your child is such a Yeah, honestly,
you make me sick. Get out of here, Get out

(56:22):
of this. Wow, that's some real gas lighty ship. It
is some really gas lighty ship. Yeah. The playbook uses
the term set the hook to describe the purpose of
those free previews, which were again build as actual informative
sessions for people interested in real estate. Set the hook
because the catching pray, pray that you're killing, and devour

(56:42):
everything and destroy take every bit of value you can
out of it. Well, only the bones, and pick your
teeth with the bones. Now, teachers were directed to pretend
they knew Donald Trump in order to make to better
make the case that students should listen to them. Here's time.
I remember one time Mr Trump head us over for dinner,
the script read, after which the instructor recounted how Trump

(57:03):
had confided some nugget of real estate wisdom to him. No,
I didn't have dinner with him, conceded Gerald Martin, when
questioned in a two thirteen deposition about a recorded presentation
which he mouths the script's dinner with Trump line. I
was just trying to be as close to the script
as possible. Wow, oh man, that's my favorite kind of bullshit.

(57:24):
You know, Um, I don't know, have you Have you
ever had a steake dinner before Okay, great. So I
was just actually with Donald Trump and at his house.
I mean, obviously this man is only any to find
a steaks. And when I was there, he brought out
this beef. It's from Japan. It's called Kobe beef. Now
you know Kobe Bryant. Yeah, he's named after this because
the beef is so good. Now it is. It's it's

(57:46):
a kind of beef that melts in your mouth. And
I'm not saying that to impress you. I'm saying that
to impress upon you that I actually have, from my
personal relation with Donald Trump, learned the kinds of skills, techniques,
strategies to be eating that kind of meal as if
it were an afterthought, as if it were your I
don't know, hot pocket, based on your body type that

(58:07):
I'm looking at. You See, there needs to be like
a government registry for people who can do what you do.
Where do we just keep tabs on them? It's just
I'm too empathetic like to like, actually, yeah, but I
love this. This is safe. Have you ever seen the
documentary Marjo. It's a it's a documentary about this kid
who was like his parents made him be a preacher.

(58:27):
This is like in like the thirties and forties when
he was like studying at like age five, he was
like marrying people as a six year old. There's video
of some of this, and as an adult, like he
couldn't do anything else about this his whole life. So
as an adult after his parents abandoned him, he got
back into basically conning people out of money as a
preacher in these like big revivals that were happening all
the way across the South. And he felt bad about
it because he had a soul, and so he took

(58:48):
a documentary film crew in with him and like the
seventies to record behind the scenes what happens in all
these scam revivals. It's an incredible movie. It's an incredible movie.
But he's got this ability to just like turn that
on and start going right right these these beautiful like
like evangelical rants, and it's the same sort of thing,
like it's just amazing to watch, you know, to impress you.

(59:10):
I'm not here to impress your impress Robins line. Oh yeah,
that sounds like a Tony Robbins line. And he says
that he's like and you know, I've got He literally
said some ship is like, and now I've got a rolex. Yeah,
And he's like, and I don't say that to impress you.
I say that to impress upon you. Like, oh wow,
slick fucking line. That is a good that. It's not

(59:31):
an unskilled job. No, not, especially when you have lines
like that that you're like, whoa Like okay, alright, alright,
weird flex but okay, you deserve something for that. Oh yes,
oh man. The time quote even continues because they asked
Donald Trump about the guy's dinner story. Uh, and he said,

(59:51):
I don't know who you're talking about, but I will
tell you that I met many of the professors, and
I also studied just about all the resumes. I'm very
much into academics. You know. I was a good student. Dude,
I met the professors. What are you talking about these
other maniacs who were just lying through their deep the president?

(01:00:13):
The president. The training was in fact bullshit. What training
there was that wasn't just upselling people. Since most instructors
had either no real estate experience or were failed real
estate investors who had gone bankrupt in the field, they
weren't exactly filled with good advice to begin with. Stephen
Gilpin who was an actual real estate expert, although that's
a pretty scammy field inherently, but he actually was had
like certifications and stuff and had done this for years.

(01:00:35):
But he said he had gone bankrupt. No, no, no,
he just like his company stopped doing as well because
the market started to cry. So he was like, well,
this is guaranteed money, got you guys. Okay, yeah, So
Stephen Gilpin, since he actually knew something about real estate
and like the laws surrounding it, was ground zero zero
for witnessing the kind of noxious nonsense that was spouted
at these uh these seminars. Quote, one day, I got

(01:00:56):
an incoming call from a student. Let's call him so Ill.
He said, I'm here at the specific Well, I mean,
I mean, I guess a lot of people who were
like recent immigrants to the country and managed to save
up some money got involved in what I'm saying, Like,
let's call him Sunil, Like, yeah, I would hate for
the guy's name to be a Nill. Yeah, it's like,
let's call him to be honest. From what I can

(01:01:16):
tell about Gilpin, that might have been Mr x X.
He said, I'm here at the Department of Records and
Deeds trying to file documents and they won't accept my paperwork. Okay,
I said, what are you trying to do. I'm filing
an affidavit to cloud a title, said Sunil, and they
won't take it. Now, Clouding a title is a real
estate term. It basically means it refers to in a

(01:01:38):
regularity in the chain of title of real estate property.
And it's one of those things you can do in
sometimes it makes it hard to for another buyer to
like go after the title essentially like that. I don't
entirely understand it, but it's a kind of shady thing
that is legal in some states. Yes, well, let me
tell you something, Robert is it is legal. Uh, And
I do have experience with that. It's actually out. I

(01:02:00):
don't know if you've seen this is an Ottomar's peg
a ristwatch anywhere. I got question, you know the name
of a nice wristwatch. Okay. So once he hears that
this guy is trying to cloud a title, the third
first thing in Stephen Gilpin's head is like he starts
thinking through the states he knows where it's illegal to
do this, to try to see like if that's what's happening.
I noticed the forty area code of his call, Phoenix, Arizona.

(01:02:21):
You've made a mistake. I have said. What you're trying
to do can't be done in the state of Arizona.
It's illegal. But this is what our mentor told us
to do. He said, Wait what I said? Where did
you learn this? At the Trump University retreat in Scottsdale.
So this kid had paid five thousand dollars to get
a step by step advice to do something that was
illegal in the state that he was trying to do
it in. Since he went ahead and signed the illegal
document before being reported, he had technically committed a crime,

(01:02:44):
one that could have resulted in a ten thousand dollar
fine in a year of jail time. Oh wow wow. So,
when you get right down to it, Trump University wasn't
just a con. It was a shockingly bad and unspeakably
lazy con. And it's about to get shocking er, lazier,
and somehow even grosser. When we return on Thursday, we'll
talk about the kind of human beings who worked as

(01:03:05):
teachers at Trump University. We'll talk about the downfall of
Trump University, and we'll talk about what it taught our
president to be about the magic of conning people out
of money. Miles plus plugables glade plug ins love them. Uh.
And also you know the I co host the Daily
Zeitgeist on this network. Uh, daily news and politics and

(01:03:28):
culture comedy. You know, have some laughs, talk about the news, laughs, think, learn, yeah,
love love, But you won't hear the kind of slick
sales should I do here? This is exclusive from Behind
the Bastards and uh yeah follow me on you know
social media, Twitter, Instagram, at Miles of grade g R
A Y M I L E S So. Uh. Enjoyed

(01:03:48):
this world exclusive Miles trying to sell you can stuff
and enjoy our episode on Thursday when we returned with
the rest of the story of Trump University. Uh. You
can find us online Behind the Bastards dot com. You
can find us on Instagram and Twitter at at Bastard's Pod.
You can buy a shirt. Uh. You could also buy
my real estate investment guide Investing with Robert. I wrote

(01:04:08):
it all myself. Now I've never invested in real estate.
Uh and in fact, one year I lost tens of
thousands of dollars by renting what was essentially a mansion
for no good reason. Uh. So yeah, flex, not a
flex almost almost made me homeless. So of thousand dollars man, Yeah,
that bit of info was there, and I call that

(01:04:30):
of lex. Yeah. I invested the money I made from
my book in living in a giant house and going
to a rack three times, two great investments called living
your best life. So if you want to buy my
book of real estate secrets, it's investing with Robert four thousand.
And I promise you less than of what is in

(01:04:51):
the book is illegal in your state. Oh, not valid
in Arizona, New York, New Mexico, New Jersey, Wrote Island, Michigan,
and the rest of the Eastern seaboard. The rest of
the Eastern Seaboard, also Atlanta, also Louisiana. Just Atlanta, the
city of Atlanta, rest of Georgia. You're fine, You're fine,
all right. This has been behind the bastards. I've been

(01:05:13):
Robert Evans hugged cat h