Part One: The Last Days of L. Ron Hubbard

In Episode 64, Robert is joined by Michael Swaim and Abe Epperson to discuss the end of L. Ron Hubbard's life. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what's l ronning my Hubbards? I'm Robert Evans. This
is Behind the Bastards, the podcast where we talked about
the very worst people in all of history, and today
is our super special conclusion episode of the life of
l Ron Hubbard. Uh And with me today to talk
about the last ten years of the craziest man in

(00:20):
histories life is Michael Swain and Abe Eperson. Thank you
for having us. I was making like cheering and crowd
sounds with my mouth. I thought it's not a mechanical.
I didn't do a good job. I thought you just
did that for every ten minutes to like seep out
all the sliva from your know, you know what I

(00:41):
do when I sucked something up like that. Though, as
I tossed my throwing bagels, Oh, I was aware of
the throwing bagel trope. I thought they were individually thrown.
This is a three pack. Yeah, he's angry, and they
bounced right off the wall and back to me. So
I'm re armed with my throwing bagel. We're also in
a home with dozens of panels. You could have targeted.

(01:02):
You targeted one right by someone's heat. Well, that's because
the nature of the bounce means it won't hit Sophie.
If I have a board to her left, it will
bounce right back to me. I'm an expert. I love
that you keep them contained in the bag though, so
your vigilante is m is at least kind didn't exactly
like you're. You get ants and rats and stuff, you know,

(01:22):
that's how you get rats. Yeah, and I don't want
rats inside the house. I only want rats in the
houses of my enemies. There's only the government acceptable level
of rats in the studio, and I appreciate that, yeah,
which is five. Yeah, that's the max, same as peanut butter,
which is why there's so many rats the open peanut
butter jars from back when I had trying to rescue

(01:44):
their rat friends, or in the peanut butter jars. You see.
I have five rats at home too, and I'm in
like a ratitude situation. So I haven't seen that movie,
but I think a guy cooks rats into food and
that serves them. The people of France apes eating rats,
that's what he's trying to is the correct one. Well,
I mean the rent is too damn high this rat Now,

(02:08):
did you all both listen to uh? The three parter
I did on the Life of of l. Ron Hubbard
or L. R. H I did. I gotta ask before
we before we get in, were you surprised to learn
that he in fact could fuck? Oh? I was ready
to immediately answer no to everything you said, because I've
done of like, he's not the most obscure bastard you've covered. No,

(02:30):
I've done my own research. But yeah, that was the
one detail you found, the one detail that was surprising.
I also, I was very pleased because I'm like, I
don't it's not like he needed a win, you know,
like he definitely didn't need a win. Kind of nailed it.
But it's just kind of one of those like just
one of those things that like life just serves up

(02:51):
to you, like reality just says and circumstance and you go, ah, yes,
back to nihilism. That's me. Like you find out Milton
Borrow had a foot long the You're like, why, but okay,
I don't know. If there's one thing that came across
in that book of a thousand Milton Borough jokes, I
had that as a kid man. You just flashed me
back to I haven't thought of it in twenty years,

(03:13):
and I remember thinking, as a seven year old reading
that I bet this guy had a fucking salami that
could have knocked it. Yeah, well it was a little
child imagining that it was dedicated to his testicles for
all the weight they bear. As a kid, I just
didn't think anything of that, you know, it just seemed
like a normal old comedian talking about the balls, speaking

(03:34):
of old comedians talking about their balls, or not speaking
of that at all. When we last left l Ron Hubbard,
he'd just come ashore in Florida after multiple years of
shirking all the laws of land and most of the
laws of c old Ill and as crazy as a
cat with an inner ear infection, Hubbard launched Operation gold Mine.
This was his plan to create the Mecca of Scientology,

(03:54):
an entire city dedicated to the religion, where scientologists could
rule one another and other people based on the principles
of their glorious religion. Now, you guys are gonna build
a mecca to your own personal religions. Where do you pick? Oh? Boy, well,
you got see this is an improv role. You know
you're on the spot. First answer, no censorship. What came

(04:16):
to mind was Portland, Oregon, No, that's a great place
to call. That's that's where I played. Because I'm seeing you,
but also because i've often that's been at the top
of my list of other places to live when I
went in if I leave l a um. But I
also heard your episode about in part the history of
Portland's so I feel bad saying that I would put
mine on top of Mount Rushmore. Way better some more

(04:39):
time to think. Yeah, yeah, I have more time to
think in general on Mount Rushmore. Question is would it
be your face? Is your mecca in the shape of
your face and be whatever funk I want? Just you
frowning down on four presidents on my ongoing battle to
beat the president. That is what we know about A.
Well Ron Hubbard was as I think we've a stabbed

(05:00):
the craziest man who ever lived. He's a contender in that.
And as the craziest man who ever lived. He picked
the craziest state. And I say this as a Texan.
Nobody beats Florida in the in the crazy State lottery.
It's it's got to be Florida. And of course l
Ron Hubbard picked the city of clear Water, Florida. Now
there was a downside of this, which is that the

(05:20):
site that l Ron Hubbard and his minions selected for
their faith's new capital was already occupied by tens of
thousands of people were not scientologists. So this was a problem,
but not an insurmountable one because l Ron Hubbard has
had as as he had you know, most of our
last Oh, it's not a theory. He's still alive. I

(05:42):
hope his head's frozen in a jar. I'd like to
see him get one more act. I'd like to see
him and Ted Williams head fight each other someday. Short
just rolling around. It's one of those things where after
everything we went through in the first three episodes, it's
it's shocking to me how much gas this guy had
left in that This is only the last decade, right,
this is the last like ten years of his life.

(06:03):
Home again. This is the Game of Thrones finale episode.
This is not the whole Most dictators get a two part,
maybe a three part, like Run Hubbard. This is a
five part. Yeah. So. Clearwater, Florida, is located west of
Tampa and north of St. Petersburg, on the far edge
of Florida's Midwest coast yep It has a fine Harbor,

(06:25):
which was good because al run Hubbard still fancied himself
a commodore. And as you you pointed out there, Michael,
the city's named clear Water made it a perfect fit
with a run Hubbard's religious cannon, because of course clear
is the state of being like, yeah, it's the whole
goal in the scientology cannon. In ninety five, when it
disguised El Ron Hubbard arrived with his retinue, Clearwater was

(06:45):
a sleepy retirement community. It went by the nickname Sparkling
clear Water, and a third of its hundred thousand citizens
were over sixty five. It was not a place that
prided itself on hustle and bustle. The town's most prominent
building was the old Fort Harrison Hotel and increasingly to
crepit monument to clear Waters glory days. The hotel was
empty and for sale. In October, the Southern Land Sales

(07:07):
and Development Corporation purchased the old hotel. The local attorney,
who represented the building's old owners, called it one of
the strangest transactions he'd ever seen. The building's new buyers
had paid two point three million dollars in cash for
the building, and the fact that they had two point
three million in cash. Was literally all he knew about them.
The buyers would not even admit to having a telephone number.
Good little almost smell a grift. It's almost impressive. They

(07:30):
didn't run a foul of Disney operatives buying land out
from Florida residence any group like crazier and wealthier than
the Disney Corporation this period of time, it's the Church
of Scientology. Now it's Disney. I mean, we all have
a lot, like humans have a long history of just like,
if you get enough people and put them in a spot,

(07:51):
you can declare that yours. Yeah, which is exactly what
I planned to do someday in Oregon, like a bunch
of people. You guys saw that documentary Wild Wild Country
like that, that literally is my goal minus poisoning that town. Probably.
I saw the first important and I was like, it's
kind of boring. They're not culty enough for my like

(08:12):
the part of me that wants to watch it. And
everyone said, something happens. So now I know that they
poisoned the town, They poisoned the ship out of a town.
Were past spoiler range. I think they were kind of
on the right though, anyway, let's move on past. Yeah.
Less than a week later, the Southern Land Development Corporation
bought another of the city's landmarks, the Bank of clear
Water Building. They paid five and fifty thousand dollars, again
in cash. Now, residents started talking after this, and they

(08:35):
talked even more when a strange old man in a
green jumpsuit showed up in town and publicly announced that
the Southern Land Company would be leasing the buildings to
a group called the United Churches of Florida. He claimed
that the United Churches would host religious meetings and seminars there.
Now this perplexed local journalists. They could find no records
anywhere of the United Churches of Florida ever existing. This

(08:55):
was because there was no United Churches of Florida or
Southern Land Development Company for that at her. Both organizations were,
of course, fronts for the Church of Scientology. December five,
I'll Run Hubbard officially announced Project Power three a k a.
Operation Normandy. I that's it gets really close. It's got
those three blades. Yeah, yeah, you say that with a

(09:16):
full beard. No one at this table shaves regular literature.
The literature they handed me made me understand that I
am clean shaven. The scienology razor works. This is just
my sin coming out of my face. I'm gonna get
it out of it away. Get you're shaved on the inside,
which is where it happens. Little hairs, little things, It's

(09:37):
all the same stuff. Now. The purpose of Operation Normandy
was quote to fully investigate the Clearwater City and County
area so we can distinguish our friends from our enemies
and handle is needed. Hubbard's overall plan to accomplish this
was quote to locate opinion leaders, then their enemies the
dirt scandal, vested interest crime of the enemies with overt
data as much as possible, then turn this over to

(10:00):
United Churches, who will approach the opinion leader and get
his agreement to look into a specific subject which will
lead to the enemy's crimes. United Churches then discovers the scandal, etcetera,
and turns it over to the opinion leader for his use.
Ops can be done as a follow up to remove
or restrain the enemy. So Wow just gets right into
it with how do we deal with our enemies that
we're gonna make That's his tool is to blackmail so

(10:22):
quick like he doesn't like someone introduces you by pointing
him across the room at a party, like, oh, yeah,
that's my friend l Ron. He's got dirt on your
Damn that was fast. Yeah yeah, I mean he's like
in his sixties at this point. He's experienced. He knows,
he doesn't pussy foot around like it's time to We're
gonna make enemies, so we need a plan to destroy it.
Our mob boat has reached land begin discovering everyone. Since

(10:45):
you know, like video games where you're supposed to like
you have like offense and defense and you have to
power them both up. He's done this enough to know
he's like, well, it's going to be ahead of the
curve on the defense. He's been playing for a long
shot exactly now. One of these enemies a reporter for
the clear Water Sun named Mark Sableman. Mark had been
sniffing around the church's operations in clear Water and revealed

(11:06):
some evidence that suggested the United Churches were really the
Church of Scientology and so on January nineteen seventy six,
a church official named Joe Liza wrote up a scheme
to get Mark fired. Quote, have a woman elderly go
into the office and grief and miss emotions, starts screaming
that she wants to see Sableman's boss. She goes in
and sees this man and screams and cries about Sableman's

(11:26):
sexually assaulting her son or grandson. The woman takes a
magazine which is lured and perverted, and throws it into
the face of the man. Woman and screams, look what
he gave my son. Not to mention what the pervert did.
Sob sob to my Johnny, I'm going to the police.
If you can't do something about that pervert Sableman, I
will see that they do something to you. So journalist
reveals the very basic detail that they're secretly buying up

(11:48):
land and that at one point in time, sob sub
to my Johnny. That's literally how it's written, subsob to
my Johnny. Yeah, that's like a song you would here
at the sap or like it's it could be kind
of like a like a greeting to like subs magenny.

(12:11):
What Sobny's there we go? Yeah. Throughout later nineteen seventy
five and early nineteen seventy six, Clearwater flooded with young
uniform scientologists. They began renovating the Church's new acquisitions downtown.
Their presence was strange and discomfanying for locals, since the
newcomers refused to answer questions on who they worked for
and what they were doing. Hubbard himself supervised the construction

(12:31):
efforts from five miles away in a condominium complex in
the nearby town of Dunedin. During his few visits into
clear Water, he posed as a photographer. His initial plan
was to sneak into a respected position in local society
by posing as a photographer, taking pictures to encourage local tourism.
In a letter to one member of the Guardian Office,
which was the chunk of the Church of Scientology aimed
at protecting Ron Hubbard, he wrote, quote, taking pictures of

(12:54):
beautiful clear Water is the local button. My portrait of
the mayor will hang in the city hall. Never fear,
okay pretentious. First of all, it's clear that he was like, well,
I'm not going to live there. Find me the nerdiest
sounding town. I gotta live in a J. R. Tolkien
named town. I am l Rond after all, he is

(13:16):
l Rond and Dounadin. Yeah, he's an elf who collided
with a space telescope. L Ron Hubble right um, which
actually just turns out to be an orc But secondly,
is he allowed back on land? I thought he was
going to get arrested. Yeah, he's not allowed. That's why
he's always in this guise. So he's like on the
I mean because I thought the boat was his sort

(13:37):
of final solved evading the law. But even in this
late stage, he's like, I'm risking it up. He's risking
it now. He's he's being hidden. At this point he
has a whole team of people. The Guardian Office is
just there to keep people off his bad which would
sound silly if you hadn't just dropped the KKK episode.
Whether they're like the Exalted Cyclone King, Oh the clay like.

(14:03):
Unfortunately for l Run Hubbard, the mayor of clear Water
had no interest in being photographed by a strange old man.
He was deeply concerned with this army of anonymous invaders.
At one point he reached out to the United Churches
and said quote, I am discomfited by the increasing visibility
of security personnel armed with billy clubs and mace employed
by the United Churches of Florida. I am unable to
understand what this degree of security is required by a

(14:24):
religious organization, you see more like ufc AM. I right,
it's like a reasonable question. It seems like you brought
an army to our sleepy retirement and a Catholic priest
walking out a cobblestone street, Like, how you doing, lads
just smacking a knight sting into his hand. That is discomfiting. Yeah,
I think that's the perfect that is that is the

(14:46):
perfect word. It became clear that the Scientologist would need
to stage reveal of their organization to the people of
clear Water. In early nineteen seventy six, they held a
meeting at the Fort Harrison Hotel, officiated by l. Run
Hubbard himself. He wore a beret CAFA, tigues and headphones,
and local religious leaders watched in wonder and confusion as
this bizarre man presided over the setup of microphones and

(15:06):
stage managed the production of the press conference down to
the tiniest detail. He was introduced as Mr Hubbard, an engineer.
We could cut him. Why didn't they get one of
the one again? One of the like can through lines
of any time you read about criminals in the seventies,
like the hap B. I really wasn't very good at
its job. I mean, you could debate whether or not
they still are. But everyone was kind of asleep at

(15:27):
the wheel until September eleven, which you know is part
of why September eleventh. It's almost as if in the
human narrative, there's incompetence has always been with us, Yes,
especially if those of power. Yeah, shouldn't have been super
hard to find out, Ron Hubert. Now five hundred local
citizens attended the meeting, where they were shown their renovations
downe to the Fort Harrison Hotel. Scientology representatives tried to

(15:49):
reassure them that the church was a fundamentally friendly force
with no nefarious aims towards their town. A spokesman for
the church told them scientologists or people who don't drink
or violate laws, they are friendly and what to contribute.
The very next day, the Church of Scientology filed a
one million dollar lawsuit against the mayor of clear Water,
Gabrielle Cazares, suing him for libel, slander, and a bevy

(16:09):
of civil rights violations. A few days after announcing his
presence in Florida and instantly suing the mayor of the town,
oh Ron Hubbard went out to get a suit tailored
near Dunedin. It turned out that the tailor was a
science fiction fan, and since Bron was a proud narcissist,
he immediately revealed his identity to the fan and told
him he was staying near by. The news percolated through
the local rumor mill, and before long it was common
knowledge that the profit of Scientology was hanging out in

(16:31):
Dunedin rather than clear Water. Now, at the time, there
were numerous pending lawsuits and investigations against the church, and
the fact that Hubbard's location had been revealed by himself
made him incredibly paranoid. Within days of revealing himself to
clear Water, he and his entourage fled twelve hundred miles
north to Georgetown. Hubbard grew a beard and bought a
new wardrobe at from a local Salvation Army store. One
of his aides, who had been with him during his
long boat journey, noted that it was strange because on

(16:54):
the ship he had all these phobias about dust and
smells and how his clothes had to be washed, but
all that vanished when we were living together in Washington.
Kind of massage arc for him, like he had like
a second religion family like secret. Yeah it man, it's
they're just pests though, right, Like they just anytime anyone

(17:16):
might be a threat, they just throw everything at him.
I'm gonna see you then. Yeah, didn't you hear they
throwing at everyone in any area there in before they
get to know anyone. Yeah, it's how you react to
threats when you have infinite money and are just a lunatic.
And I think it's a sign of your own like
I feel like from your previous episodes too. He walked

(17:37):
around with a lot of darkness inside him, like there
are some people who I think have done horrendous things
and it really goes off them like water off a
duck's back. His just sheer obsession with well, everyone's got dirt,
everyone's got skeletons. The trick in life is just to
find the skeletons first. That's the act of someone who's like, yeah,
I have the most skeletons, so many skeletons, pre empty throwing,

(18:00):
kidnapped my own baby. And if you say anything about
these skeletons, new skeletons, it's also incredible that he Uh,
I wish I could have been there in his head
in the moment he's leaving the Taylor's office, when it
turned from like that was nice meeting a fan. I

(18:22):
shouldn't have done that. Hell that was real bad. Hell
all the all the crimes you've been committed to. Wait
a minute, little ron, little rock. So he grows to
Georgetown and grows a beard like we all do at
some point. Now, well, Hubbard hit out in Georgetown. He
continued to direct a variety of clandestine operations down in
clear Water. His main goal was to unseat Gabriel Kazares,

(18:44):
who had grown into a figure of almost luciferian importance
to the scientologist portrait. He still wants that portrait. Yeah,
they were really worried about his moderate concern about them
taking over his town with a paramilitary security force. According
to the book Bear Face Messiah Quote, Scientologist had gone
back to his hometown of Alpine, Texas, tralled through public records,
nosed around the courthouse, and even checked the headstones in

(19:06):
the local graveyard without success. But then it was disclosed
that Kazars would be attending the National Mayor's Conference in
Washington from eleven or thirteen to seventeenth March, and the
Guardians Office made hasty plans to give him a welcome.
A scientologist posing as a Washington reporter sought an interview
with Kazars and introduced him to a friend, Sharon Thomas,
who offered to show the mayor the sites of Washington.
Miss Thomas was, of course working for the Guardians Office.

(19:28):
Dragging with the mayor through scenic Rock Creek Park, she
temporarily lost control of her car and ran into a pedestrian,
who crumpled dramatically. To the mayor's horror, Miss Thomas accelerated
away without stopping, leaving the injured man lying on the road.
Is the injured man also a played He's a science
everyone involved as a scientologist, but the mayor. So this
is like a play for Noah. It's like in the

(19:49):
Sensus when they put on a play to convince mister
Burns to fund the school or some ship, like yeah,
I wonder if they rehearsed. They must have, and and
it's all for his him. He had a team always
practicing to fake a hit and run, just because he
knew at some point, I'm gonna need this, so I'm
gonna want to be in those morning production meetings we're

(20:11):
just right. He was talking last night about not feeling
like so great when he's like, he's not tall, so
can we just like let's build his platform make him
taller for our shortest people. They I want to see
the scenes that they rehearsed that were cut, Like, okay,
in case the mayor gets carried off by a giant

(20:32):
bird of prey, we have this great scene worked out.
It never happened. It just like slays State on the
cutting room floor. Yeah, with the probably that's what I get.
The acting connection though, that makes sense. They had to
do a lot of improving at Thomas Cruise. Yeah, that
was his first role. Now, the plan was to use

(20:55):
this hit and run to discredit the mayor. A Guardians
office memo noted, I should think the mayor's political days
are at an end. Of course, a fake hit and
run committed by someone else did not have the derailing
effect on the mayor's career that the Guardian's office at home.
But Hubbwood was ready the same day with another plan
to try and convince Miami's Cuban population that the mayor
of Clearwater was pro castro. So like most of l.

(21:17):
Ron Hubbard's hairbrain schemes. This one did not bear fruit.
The commodore cooked up ideas like I Hop Cook's pancakes
poorly and constantly, but all of his schemes were not
half asked. And while all this was going on, the
Church of Scientology was deep in the middle of the
most ambitious scheme of its history to date, Operation snow White.
November nine, nineteen seventy five, an agent of the Church,

(21:37):
code named Silver, walked into the Internal Revenue Service headquarters
in Washington, d C. He entered the office of Attorney
Charles Zubran, although he had no legal right to be there,
and began taking documents. He made copies of hundreds of
confidential tax documents and then walked out the door with them.
Like the purchase of the Fort Harrison Hotel, this was
done under the express orders of l. Ron Hubbard. The
genesis of snow White had come in nineteen seventy three,

(22:00):
whilst Hubbard and his Sea Org were still trawling international waters.
Multiple nations refused to let the Scientologist dock at their ports,
and l. Ron Hubbard decided this was due to a
worldwide conspiracy to discredit his church, rather than its numerous
numerous crimes. He assholecy I'm gonna dress up like Spider Man,

(22:20):
and ruined his good name. Hubbard tasks Scientology's investigative arm,
the Guardian Office, with countering this false information. The name
snow White was picked because Hubbard claimed the government's case
against him was, in essence, a fable. Now call it
Operation Fable. That's way cooler. Well he went with snow White.
Under the direction of his wife, Mary Hubbard. Operations snow

(22:41):
White would grow into a sprawling infiltration of the US
federal government at every level. Agent Silver's theft of I
R S documents was just one part of the scheme.
Agent Silver was really I R S Clerk Gerald Wolfe,
and in that capacity he was able to steal more
than thirty thousand pages worth of documents. By the beginning
of nineteen seventy five, the Church had actually succeeded in
the play, seeing agents inside the I R S, the U. S.

(23:02):
Coast Guard, and the d E A. Now, this scheme
was executed entirely by agents of the Guardian Office. They
were trained to lie, or in Scientology terms, outflow false
data in order to worm their way into these federal organizations.
That's a good synonym for life, wrapping my head, synergize
the dishonesty. Also, your name is already wolf, agent Wolf,

(23:25):
was silver Wolf or I don't know silver Wolf, agent
silver Wolf? Red Fox? No, that was an agent Red Fox.
Why he's got a filthy sense of humor, but he
gets shipped done. Speaking of fables, you know what's not
a fable? Products your heart? Your heart, So in this man,

(23:49):
they're very you know what I don't need to go
to see. I throw the bagels that come right back
to me. Those are some products. Yeah, the services are real,
but we are real. The throwing bagels are real. My
current throwing bagels are everything bagels, kettle boiled and health baked,
sliced the bagel that won the West, and they're bruising badly,

(24:09):
which I didn't think bagels were supposed to do. The
bagel that won the West? Did? They did these wipe
out the Cherokee bagels? They're everything, so they're definitely genocide.
Plus I guess everything else that's not cool. Thousands of
American bison died with those bagels embedded in their skulls. Sophie,

(24:31):
I want bagels that didn't commit genocide. Yeah. Fair. Also,
these expired February, so I want fresh throwing bagels. Actually
the expired ones work a little bit better. So check
out these ads. We're back. I shouldn't have come back

(24:57):
when I was eating. Well, you fully control when you
come back, so that was your choice and you can
with it. That's number three for those keeping track. I
hit some equipment with that one, but Daniel says it's fine.
We've returned from examining the ads, examined antiquated woodworking tool,
and I, for one, will purchase one delicious products or services.

(25:21):
Now what's not delicious is the throwing bagels that apparently
are genocide bagels. I think they're genocide bagel. I would
like to apologize two genocide victims for throwing genocide bagel.
I've heard a lot of words in my time on
this earth. I've never heard the combination tasty, genocide. I mean,
I don't know. I don't eat bagels. I just throw them,
so I don't know if they're tasty. I can say

(25:43):
these are the bountiest of the bagels, So you're not
even vouching for these bagels as edible. That's why they're
throwing all right. I assume they're a throwing bagel could
sort of retire and end its life in my little mouth?
Is that not a possible I'm not gonna say you can't,
but that's not their purpose. They're everything bagel, so you
can do anything. Wisdom that's bagel is by everything now,

(26:07):
including genocide. Yes, unfortunately, I guess yeah, they really are. Well,
if the bagel's everything, it's all good and all it's
it's all on there. That bagel both invented the seat
belt and killed John bon A Ramsey and everything and
is the spirit of Christmas, and is the spirit of
Christmas as well as the spirit of St. Louis. And

(26:30):
is that right? Wayne college kid who led the campaign
against wearing seat belts and died in an accident that
he would have lived through if he had worn his seatbelt.
It's all in the bagel, people, We've gotten to invest
in the philosophy of what an everything bagel is. The
cream cheese is hitler. I don't ask why it's always
been that way. I don't. I think we can all
agree on all. Right, let's get back to Ron Hubbard's life.

(26:53):
A little bit of bagel. It's a little bit of Bagel.
So the Guardian Office agents were infiltrating, you know, all
all these federal agencies, the the i r S, the
d e A, the Coast Guard. Much of the data gathered,
like the i r S files copied by agents silver
was collected in order to help the church deal with
its mountain of pending audits. At this point, it was
not a religious institution in the legal sense of the word,

(27:14):
but it was still refusing to pay taxes, so the
I r S was not super happy. So it still
had not secured the religious exemptions. No, that wasn't until
much later. Now. The Guardians Office also used their connections
to the U. S. Government to dig up dirt on
their political enemies, particularly journalists who dared to write about them.
According to the l A Times quote, the Guardian Office
saved the worst for author Paul Atte Cooper of New

(27:36):
York City, who scathing nineteen seventy two book The Scandal
of Scientology pushed her to the top of the Church's
roster of enemies. Among other things, Cooper was framed on
criminal charges by the Guardian Office members who obtained stationary
she had touched and then use it to forge bomb
threats to the church and her name. You're like the Nazis,
are the Arabs. I'll bomb you, I'll kill you. Warn't
one of the rambling letters. The church reported these threats

(27:56):
to the FBI and sent the fury of the bureau
crashing down on poor Paul at Cooper. She was indicted
by a grand jury for making bomb threats and for
lying under oath about having made the bomb threats. The
truth did eventually come out, but it took two years
and cost Paul at twenty dollars in legal fees and
six thousand dollars in psychiatric treatment. Now Hubbard actually hated
Paul that enough that he had the Guardian's office dedicated
an entire operation to destroying her, code named freak out.

(28:19):
I found an article where she recites a small list
of the things they did before reporting those fake bomb
threats to the FBI. What are you doing today, honey?
We're destroying this one woman. We're destroying this lady. She
wrote a book. Yeah, we're in Q two. I'm hoping
by Q four she'll be comtemplating side. You know, that's
the goal. You know, we all get a bonus if
it happens before Q four. Did the agents who infiltrated

(28:40):
the I R s of the time have to just
keep up their cover by dealing in sex returns? I
want to know if a scientologist operative effort just processed
my taxes by chance. Well, now, if you were filing
taxes in the late seventies, yeah, maybe, yeah, that's I
have a very bad tax cheat, which is I've been
filing taxes since before I was born. I'm hoping it'll

(29:02):
pay off. I'm gonna stop paying taxes. H here's Paul
at Cooper quote. I soon got used to telephone death threats,
harassing calls in lawsuits, and was occasionally followed, often conspicuously,
as if to upset me, and people seemed to be
trying to gain access to my apartment. Then, in the
basement of my small building, I discovered alligator clips on

(29:23):
my phone wires, likely the remnants of a phone tap. Next,
my cousin, who was also short and slim like me,
was in my apartment alone when a man arrived with
a flower delivery for me. When she opened the door,
the intruder pulled a gun out of the flowers and
put it to her temple. Fortunately, the gun jammed misfired
or was empty. The man then began to choke her,
and then when she pulled away and screamed, he ran off.
The police said afterward that they were mystified because there

(29:43):
appeared to be no motive for the attack. I quickly
moved to a safer Dorman building, but soon afterwards three
d of my new neighbors received an anonymous smear letter
about me, outrageously described me as a part time prostitute
with thenereal disease. They really showed control with the part
time though. They're like, not a full time, Yeah, that's

(30:05):
like that. You know. The reason why they choose part
time too is that they're like, she can't even be
a full prostitute. That's a different way to take it,
but you know it's the one they took. Yeah. Yet, yeah,
she can't. She can't entirely subsist off of that, so
she's got to do the writing books about scientology. Thing
is an off game. It's just worse lies and worse lies. Yeah. Now,

(30:29):
much as I do love talking about the wacky schemes
about Run Hubbard, it's important to remember that for every botched,
fake hit and run, which is just genuinely whimsical and funny.
Someone like Paultte Cooper was subjected to insane, almost unimaginable
torment for the crime of writing a book that anger run. Well,
it seems like it might have been actually just a
torture technique, like where they were never planning to shoot her,
but like that's a thing that you'll do. Like I

(30:50):
talked to someone who was in an Iranian prison and
tortured for a while, and fake executions were a common thing.
The c I ated it too with people captured in Iraq,
where you put a gun to their head and pull
the trigger but it's not loaded, because like that just
really fucks with people, I guess because he went on
to Choker and it makes you imagine like he really
was sent a killer, but a jam is also pretty unlikely. Yeah,
like as a torture rehearsal, like like just just to

(31:13):
fuck her up. Yeah yeah, like like yeah, they'll execute
a prisoner of war with a son that has no
bullets to be psychologically now yeah. Now. Meanwhile, back in
Operation snow White, over the months and year, Scientology spies
had made their way into the Department of Justice, placing

(31:35):
an operative as the secretary to an assistant U S
attorney who handled them mountain of Foyer requests filed by
the Church Freedom of Information Act requests. This was the
surface legitimate goal of operations snow White. Hubbard framed it
as a perfectly legal blizzard of freedom of information requests
aimed to trying to figure out just why so many
people thought the Church of Scientology was an nefarious entity. Now,

(31:55):
because yeah, I'm usually pro foia like has been a
force for good mostly yep, not not in this case. So,
because many of these Foyer requests pertained to records that
were critical and ongoing investigations into the church's rampant criminal activity,
the church would be denied the right to see them,
which is, you know, part of how foy it works.
The church's man in the justice department would be able
to like know when they were like okay with the
request of this document its being denied, and so he

(32:17):
would get a copy of the document they were getting
denied and then smuggled them out to church authorities. So
this is why they were placed. Everyone was on Yeah,
exactly now. The I R. S was l Ron Hubbard's
greatest nemesis outside of the concept of psychiatry, and they
were where his guardian office focused most of its efforts.
At one point, an office operative managed to bug an
i r S conference room by wiring or a quarter

(32:38):
into a wall socket that allowed him to listen in
on agency meetings via his car's FM radio. And another
point to scientologists use their faked i RS credentials to
get inside government archives and photocopy documents related to the Church. Now,
the head of operations snow White was again Mary Sue Hubbard,
and when it all came crashing down spoiler, she is
the one who would take legal blame. But basically everyone

(32:58):
who has studied the Church or Hubbard agrees that he
was the center of the whole conspiracy. Yeah, it's almost
like people who are scared that everything is conspiracy make conspiracy,
do nothing but create conspiracies because the worldview and it's
it seems like every everything is the mafia, like like
everything works like the right, it's the same. You just

(33:22):
shift the blank to down persons sep the you know,
concept of the lieutenants or made men kind of stuff.
Avon's in the clink for a year, but we got
a stringer on the outside and he can run messages
to wive a whatever you need. Yeah, and in in
In l Ron Hubbard's case, he's he's Avon Barksdale. I
guess ever, he never spends time in a Yeah, because

(33:42):
he's a mythical. He's more of a mythic figure. Yeah.
I do think this is also the first time I've
heard of spy work that is too boring to contemplate doing.
God like, do you want to be a spy? Yeah, dude, Okay,
go into this I r S office and install a bug.
That's kind of cool. Now, sit in a van and
listen to what I r S people say all day,

(34:03):
drive around listening to the I r S radio. Are
we cops kind of the opposite of cops? New cops,
spock cops backwards? I don't know, spot cops, but that's
not how that works the cops. Yes, it is cop
cops backward. Or because there's the logical I've always said

(34:23):
that that commander spot is the opposite of a coup. Yeah,
you know why the blue uniform. No, that doesn't prosper.
I'm looking for the fun. Yeah. I really didn't have
anything there. You're just I was somebody point past that ball.

(34:44):
Somebody comedy. Now, yeah, and we failed you for your
badge and guns. Right back at my feet number four.
I you know, I hate the genocide they were complicit in,
but they're damn good to shove up. Throwing bagels really
good through the bagels, fred and slip shoving bagels, those
are different bagels. You need a little or bagel. Most

(35:07):
orifices are small bagel bites. Yea good for show. I
put bagel bites. Throwing bagels can be big. Shoving bagels
need to be small enough to fit in most holes,
to just kind of ease in there. Calling the old fashioned.
But I like just a good old fashioned walking bagel,
a little walk around town, just you can grab on it,
not got too much on the outside. That's a good

(35:29):
walking bagel. Back to evil. I was ready to shoving
bagels more because you know, if it's bagel bites, they
make their own loop, do they? Now? Back to scientology
bagel bites. Michael Meisner. Michael Meisner, who was the fake
victim of the fake hit and run aimed at destroying
the mayor of clear Water, was also a major part

(35:50):
of Operations Snow White. He personally broke into the Department
of Justice several times and organized the copying of tens
of thousands of secret files. Under Meisner's direction, decoding equipment
was installed to provide direct secure communication between church headquarters
in the clear Water and the Guardians office in Los Angeles.
After Virginia oh Ron, Hubbard himself wound up hiding next
on Overland Avenue in Culver City, California. Literally, Yeah, that

(36:13):
was about a block away from my first home in
Los Angeles. Yeah, that's where Hubbard hit after he decided
he'd spent too much time in Georgetown. He had to
get out of the East Coast. Yeah. So, in mid
nineteen seventy six, with operations snow White at its height
and Hubbard living in his third undisclosed location since returning
to dry Land a year ago, Mary Sue Hubbard finally

(36:34):
joined back up with her husband to warn him about
some major problems not related to the fact that they
were conducting the largest infiltration of the federal government in
US history. See It turns out that living on a
series of boats and searching for gold for like a
decade committing a vast and dizzy and create a financial
crime spying on the government. Living in a series of
safe houses is kind of bad for someone's family life.
He blew up those imaginary submarines. Yeah he did, he

(36:56):
did sub yeah, yeah, claiming it and then the racist
guy do it too. Yes, Yes, they made the same lie.
So it's almost like there's a it's a continuity of
liars and like be wanting to be awesome and making
your own you know that song everybody wants to rule
the world. It's like that, but with blowing up a

(37:18):
Japanese somewhere. Yeah, it's like cred in those circles. Yeah,
uh so. Yeah. The things were not great with the
Hubbard family at this point in time. His daughter Diana's
marriage was falling apart, his son Quentin was ostensibly in
the Sea York, but was constantly out of pocket and
battling crippling depression, and worst of all, l run Hubbard's
daughter Suzette was dating non scientologists. Now, Mary Sue suggested

(37:42):
that all of these problems could be solved by providing
the family with a little bit more stability. So, using
some of the church is literally infinite funds, they bought
a gigantic compound in southern California named La Quinto. The
family moved in that October. For a while, all was well.
The Commodore's messengers noted that he seemed to be much
more relaxed and happier after moving into his new ranch.
This did not last long. On Wednesday, November sevent nineteen

(38:05):
seventy six, Hubbard received dire news his son Quentin had
been found dead in his car in Las Vegas, the
victim of a successful suicide. Mary Sue wept. L Ron
Hubbard screamed, that stupid fucking kid. That's stupid fucking kid.
Look at what he's done to me. Who yeah, what
happened to blame in the Thetan's dude, Like he should
fall to his knees and go yeah yeah, according to

(38:37):
bare Face Messiah quote. The Guardians Office, meanwhile, had moved
swiftly to handle the situation. It's local representative in Las
Vegas was a pit boss at the Sands Hotel by
the name of Ed Walters. I had been working as
a covert operator for about eight years, he said. I
had secretly tape recorded a psychiatrist and got him to
talk about lobotomies to try and discredit him, and I
had bugged the meetings of the Clark County Mental Health Association,

(38:57):
things like that I worked on anything that work considered
to be a threat to the Hubbards. Who's he saying
this too? This is what he said to the author
of Bare Face Messiah. Okay, so you he presumably got
he left the church at some point. He was just
a classic casino pit boss slash spy for the Church
of Scientology right here, So what info is he getting?

(39:19):
Like stuff like this? They want dirt on a psychiatrist.
So he gets this guy drunk and bugs him talking
about committing loboties. Yeah, yes, yeah, are pretty cool. We
should do more. And another good ass day for Ed Walters.
Uh So anyway, this is Walters again. Quote. When they

(39:39):
found out Quentin was here, I was told to get
ahold of all of his medical files. There was apparently
evidence that he had had a homosexual encounter shortly before
he was found, and they didn't want anything like that
to get out. There was a girl scientologist working in
the hospital in a very secure position, and she got
all the reports on Quentin and gave them to me,
and I handed them over to the guardians office. Quentin
was cremated the next day. Those who knew him suggest
that he probably just wanted out of scientology but couldn't

(40:01):
think of a way to do so without ending his
own life. According to Ed Walters, you don't just leave
something like scientology. You quit and then instantly become an enemy.
He knew his father violently attacked anyone who betrayed him,
and he knew that the Guardian's Office would be after
him as a traitor. He had grown up in scientology
and would have been tremendously afraid of the world out there,
full of wogs and evil people. I guess he just
couldn't handle it. Now. L Ron Harvard probably would he

(40:24):
yelled the same thing if he had less scientology instead
of killing What has he done to me? Yeah? What
has he done to me? It's one of those things.
It's crazy because like, of course they have some people
in Vegas, like He's like they have this pit boss
in Vegas, and they have like a lady working at
a hospital. But like, I feel like at this point
you get the feeling that at this point in the
Church's history, they have people like that in pretty much
every city. Yeah, they've They've they've got scientologists scattered around

(40:48):
who they can trust to like, Yeah, we need you
to get some pull some medical records for us. We
need you to bug this conversation. We need you to
get this guy waste or whatever. That's almost the more
baffling part, because I can I can wrap my head
around the concept of crazy people doing crazy stuff because
they want to be awesome. Um, but the fact that
they convince in mass all these people of different walks

(41:10):
of life that are applicable in the way of like,
oh I can get I can get information from them,
Like that's just what is that demographic? Well, you've got
to keep in mind one of the things he's saying
at this point in time, this is, you know, the
Cold War is pretty ornery in like the late seventies.
This is not that long before Red Dawn comes out,
So people fears high, fear is high Outron Hubbard. One

(41:31):
of the ways he's billing scientology is like this is
the tech, which is like his term for their their
religious stuff, that this is what's going to save the world.
This is what's going to like make a nuclear war possible.
So like all of you are like as as like
the guardians of this sacred knowledge that I've brought from space.
All of you are like integral in saving the world.
So these people like view themselves as secret agents, you know,

(41:55):
for in the cause of of the salvation of humanity.
Which if you're just like a hit boss or a
lady work in mid level position at a hospital and
you want some excitement in your line, it's cool, right,
Like you get to be a secret spy bug these
evil psychiatrists or whatever. Also ironic that the only place
he didn't befoul with horrendous crimes is space. Like that

(42:17):
that's the only place he's innocent. He totally got the underground.
He did try to. He wrote letters to NASA saying
that like, you're not going to get into space without
our help. That's what I mentioned. It is, I bet
your bottom, but that this is a guy who genuinely
wanted to go to space. I mean I used to
read his sci fi books because I read it, all
sci fi books, and it was genuine. He loves space,

(42:39):
He loves him and space. We're all grateful that he
didn't make it there. No, it didn't need Ron Hubbard.
You know what else doesn't need ol Ron Hubbard. The
wonderful products and Services that supports the show with their
advertising dollars. Why would they They're fully actualized. They're fully actualized.
I've heard about these, these services and the products. All right, well,

(42:59):
let's all here about them some more. We're back. Yeah.
I want to be clear here. When I quoted a
Mr Walters earlier, he said that a Roun Hubbard's son
was scared of a world filled with wogs and evil people. Now,
my Australian listeners will note that the word wog is

(43:19):
a racial slur in that country, but it also has
a totally separate meaning in scientology, so Walters was not
being racist against anyone there. Run Hubbard used the term
woggs to refer to normal people who are not members
of his Sweet Ass Space cult. He to find a
wog as quote, yeah it is, and it's yeah, Hubbard said,
a wog is quote a common everyday garden variety humanoid.

(43:42):
He is a body, he doesn't know he's here, et cetera.
He isn't there as a spirit at all. He is
not operating as a theting. He's such a special boy.
He's not a special operating as a theme. Yeah. I
still don't even because I thought you're trying to get
rid of the theme well, but you are a thetan too, right,
I think, so you're not operating, you don't realize you're
a space ghost and try to inside a meat sock. Yeah,

(44:05):
there's good things and there's cheating things. And you're saying
they had locations all across the US at this time.
Oh yeah, they're fucking everywhere. Man. Sounds like there's space
ghost coast to coast. All right, Well, the episodes over that,
that that jokes, we needed see you guys next week.
I'm sorry we prewrote that. We're all scientology. We talked about. Hey,

(44:32):
that wasn't an actor. That might have been Tom Cruise.
Probably not, uh, definitely not. Shouldn't be slandering a rich millionaire.
He also runs too fast to ever believably be hit
by a car, as I just wouldn't buy it. I
also think if he if he came after you wanting
to kill you, he'd probably do the job. Oh yeah,

(44:53):
I feel like Tom Cruise could very easily been a
Special Forces guy or a murderer for higher. I mean,
is the kind of guy that with his off money,
he just has like a compound where he learns martial arts,
where he learns how to destroy things. So you were
worried about the legal ramifications of slandering him by saying
he might have been that guy, But you immediately also

(45:14):
want to say it's probably good at murdering. I mean,
I think I think he would be the first to
admit that he would be hypothetically a great murderer. When
you talk to guys who like do like train Hollywood
actors for gun stuff, the two people they note is
being like they these guys don't really need any help
is Tom Cruise, And he had to shoot guns. And

(45:41):
if you see him behind the scenes, he just tries hard. Yeah,
he works, really trying hard. Yeah, he's a great guy. Now,
you remember those two Scientology agents who orchestrated the Department
of Justice breaking back in seventy six. Well after eleven
months on the LAMB in early nineteen seventy seven, one
of them broke and became an informant to the FBI.
The b had been on his case for the break in,
but the full story of the church's infiltration of the U.

(46:03):
S Government was complete news to them. They opened a
massive investigation into scientology sweeping infiltration of the United States government.
The investigation would culminate In a June nineteen seventy seven
raid that is still one of the largest raids in
the history of the FBI, a hundred and thirty four
agents with crowbars and sledgehammers tour through Scientology, HQ, and
d C, as well as their offices in Los Angeles.

(46:24):
They carted away tens of thousands of documents, including the
plans for Project Normandy, revealing the church's secret goal to
establish area control in the city of clear Water. The
resulting court case led to eleven scientologists, including l Ron
Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue, being convicted and sentenced to up
to five years in federal prison. L Ron Hubbard was
named by the grand jury as an unindicted co conspirator,
a term we all know very well now, but the

(46:46):
c's files did not link him directly to any crimes.
He maintained his innocence up until the very end. According
to the Justice Department quote, the crime committed by these
defendants is of a breadth and scope previously unheard of.
No business office, desk or file was say from their
snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from
their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were
miniature transmitters, lock pick secret codes, forged credentials in any

(47:10):
other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes.
By the way, it's worth noting that while this is
happening at the height of the Cold War, the Soviet
government never managed to infiltrate the United States and nearly
as comprehensive or extensive a fashion as the Church of
Scientology did. It seems like they should have been trying
to infiltrate the Church of Science. It's like talk that

(47:30):
people who really are making progress. Now, those are the
facts of the cases. They exist in reality, but they
are not the facts of the cases admitted by the
Church of Scientology. And the immediate aftermath of the raid,
they accused the FBI of Gestapo like brutality, which should
be true if the Gestapo handed out five year sentences
from massive and sweeping infiltrations of the Third Reich. Rather

(47:50):
than just shooting people, they had crowbars. Uh. The Stand
League builds itself as an advocacy group of scientologists fighting
bigotry against their religion. The name is an acronym for
scientologists taking action against discrimination. You have to use the
inn and against for the acronym, which isn't really great acronym.

(48:11):
We all we all cut corners now and again. I
used expired throwing bagels like nobody's perfect. I found an
article published on the stand League's website about the snow
White Program. Here's how they describe it. The snow White
program refers to the program written by Scientology founder el
Ron Hubbard in nineteen seventy three for the purpose of
legally correcting and expunging the plethora of false government reports
about the Church of Scientology it's leaders and members through

(48:33):
strictly legal means. Legal twice pss. Think about the word
legal and think of me. Yeah. The stand League asserts
that el Ron Hubbard did not remotely contemplate anything illegal,
of course not who famous law follower l Ron Hubbard. Who. Yeah,

(48:56):
I gotta get back on my boat now, I'm gonna
kidnap my baby again. Oh my wife though, damn it sucks?
How she sucks? Yeah? Yeah, that's rough. Now it is
impossible to disprove that to a point of certainty, which
is why Ron Hubbard himself was never convicted of in anything.
But I want to emphasize this. Come the funk on.
We all know all of this is known information. It's true.

(49:20):
Now we're not done with the story of aut Ron
Hubbard yet. And in our next episode, which I'm very
excited for, we're going to talk about the last phase
of his life where he became an autur filmmaker and
a singer. Hell yeah, hell yeah, hell you believe l H.
It doesn't even Battlefield Earth. Oh yeah, buddy, does it

(49:41):
involve Battlefield Yeah? What a juicy treat. At the end
of so many people come on the show and at
some point in the hour ago, Yeah, this has been
really depressing. Thanks for having me. I feel like you
got all the sad stuff out of the way. I mean,
that's been sad. Ship. But man, the next one is
going to be a tree. It is to be a treat.

(50:01):
But before we closed this episode out, I'd like to
talk a little bit more about the town of Clearwater, Florida. Now,
the Fort Harrison Hotel was renamed by the Church of
Scientology to flag Land Base. After renovations were finished, it
became and is today the chief training center for scientologists
studying the highest levels of whatever the hell scientology is.
Since nineteen eighty three, Scientologists have died at Flag Base.

(50:21):
One of those dead was a young woman named Lisa McPherson,
who died of a blood clot caused by dehydration and
bedrest after seventeen days locked in Room one seventy four
of the former hotels. Josephus Hevine was found dead in
a bathtub in his room. The water was hot enough
to have burned his skin off. The official cause of
death was drowning, but the coroner noted that he was
found with his head above the waterline. Herbert Faff died
of a seizure in the hotel after he ceased taking

(50:43):
his seizure medication in favor of a Scientology approved vitamin program.
And this is the hotel from the shining you're describing
what they turned this building into. Go in room one,
don't alone. The clear Water Police received a hundred and
sixty emergency calls from Flag Base, at no point where
they allowed to enter. For most of Scientology history, the

(51:05):
church was in constant arrears for failure to pay state
and local property taxes. Scientology was brought to court numerous
times by the city and the I R S for this.
Luckily for the church, they eventually succeeded in having Scientology
to cleared a religion, which granted them tax exempt status.
The way they did this was pretty fascinating. They basically
bombarded the i r S as an organization and individual
I r S executives with lawsuits until they got their way.

(51:27):
We'll probably talk about in that in the tail in
the later episode. According to a recent report in the
Tampa Bay Times, the Church of Scientology currently owns more
than two hundred and sixty million dollars in property in
downtown clear Water. Most of these buildings are empty and undeveloped,
and many in clear Water blamed the church for the
fact that downtown clear Water has remained incredibly underdeveloped compared
to downtown St. Petersburg in Tampa. The church is able

(51:48):
to exercise a huge amount of control over the city
of clear Water due to their ownership of much of
its downtown area and then economic power of their religion.
According to f s U News quote, Scientology leader David
miss Kevige introduced a retails energy to Clearwaters Community Redevelopment Agency.
The plan requires use of not just property owned by
the church, but it also every property and a three
block by four block area that encompasses all of downtown.

(52:09):
The plan involves attracting a few major retail brands and
then filling open spaces with handpicked businesses, similar to an
outdoor mall. The proposal will give the church total control
over the downtown area in regards to development and management
of properties. The church's redevelopment plan has not yet been
made public, nor will it be subject to a vote. Cool,
why do you need that? Like? Why, I don't understand
what the area there? He's like, this church is important

(52:32):
to me. I made trillions of dollars, but I need
area control. What's area control? Well, I want to decide
if there's a Sparrows or you know, an old spahetti
factory there, and wanted to be what I wanted to be.
This is who gives a ship, dude. This is the
decision of his predecessor. Because for l Run Hubbard taking
over this town which the church controls, like forty years

(52:53):
later today, this was like a two week project for him,
like he was he was there for like a month
or so. We're on himself and ever spent more than
a couple of days actually inside the city limits of
clear Water. Like they still control this and it was
just sort of a vague plan of his for a
couple of weeks before he moved up to Georgetown. That's
I like it. Take it with these figures. Yeah, like, uh,

(53:17):
the entire sea organ is just like whatever he said,
what what beautiful drippings came out of his horrible mom
We need to make that a religion because there's only
so much that he said. I mean, he settled up,
but it's like there's still people in clear Water who
have to deal with the consequences of l Ron Hubbard's
passing fancy right every day. Well, I guess we have

(53:38):
to justify this ship. How so kind of want to
go there now because I didn't know there existed like
a company town for scientology. Yeah, where I got to
imagine because they're freaking annoying to be around. They must
have pushed out anyone who had an easy opportunity to
leave or felt like so by now forty years later.

(53:59):
I just want to go to a town where you're
like and everyone around you as a scientologist at all
time or another person gawking at all the scot I wonder,
I wonder if there's ever at the time like like
he would listen to music or like it was really
in the stand up comedian and would like watch it
and stuff. And then everyone was like, I guess that's

(54:19):
another god amongst us. You get the feeling from out
on Hubbard that he did not consume a lot of
other people's media, right, that's probably true. Yeah, we will
be talking about Star Wars a little bit in the
next time. I can't wait. This is gonna be It
is gonna be great. But first, you know what else
is going to be great? What is y'all plugging your pluggables? Yeah? Yeah,
we're in the pi zo. I thought that's the pizza zone.

(54:44):
What's the cookie with that? That's a pazuki the pi
Zone and will blast you with the pua full of Pazuki's. Alright, guys,
we have things we do throwing bagels around the table. Man,
you're under the bagels now. My associate ape here and
I have a little outfit called small Beans. It's a
podcasting network and is about to branch into web video

(55:08):
and uh, I think it's very important that you find
out more about that Patreon dot com, slash small beans,
or on the small beans YouTube channel, because we're right
now in the process of producing a little show wherefore
friends sit around analyzing pop culture, accompanied by illustrations and
clip packages. And there's a good chance that a lot
of your audience likes that show because it feels familiar

(55:30):
to that exciting. This sounds familiar to another show that
I know you were on the past. It's unlike any
other Well, this is the launch of a legally distinct
show from all other shows I called Off Hours hours
of dohen you're off Hours the analyze pop analyze pop culture. Hey,

(55:53):
this is Robert Evans cutting in from the future. When
we recorded this episode, Off Hours was was not yet done.
It was just a dream and Michael and abes beautiful
beautiful eyes. Um. But now it is in fact a
reality and you can watch it right now on the
internet if you go to YouTube, uh and look up

(56:15):
off Hours. If your life got rebooted? What kind would
it be? On these small Beans channel? Uh? Please check
it out off Hours If your life got rebooted? What
kind would it be? It's it's it's it's a fun show.
It's important to me because all of my friends are involved,
and because internet comedy, if you don't know, is having
some hard times. These Days and Michael and Abe and

(56:35):
a good group of many of my former co workers,
where all great people are trying to keep it alive,
keep it user supported. Uh you know, you know, avoid
having to do ads, avoid a lot of that mess,
and and try to make beautiful content that makes people
laugh and makes the world more bearable. So please go
to the small Beans channel on YouTube. Check out the
first episode of off Hours, share it with your friends. Uh,

(56:59):
donate to small beings and and keep the world laughing.
That's all I do. Or your research horror. The reason
we chose that name is because it's the acronym is oh,
like oh, I might want to watch this and then
have fun fun friends with oh, fun with friends, fun
with friends, And it's you know, after your work hours,

(57:19):
after hours, would have worked after hours. It's the kind
of thing I would watch when I put down my
throwing bagels for the day and I pick up my
relax in bagels. Yeah, yeah, just unwind with the soothing
dulcet tones. I am pitching a Fraser episode that I
think will convince you to throw a bagel or two
at the screen. Okay, yeah, he might be bad. Fraser

(57:40):
might be bad. Guys, so many surprises like that and
more at patreon dot com slash small beans, small beans
all right, I'm Robert Evans. Uh buy shirt te public
behind the shirts you can. You can also just buy
shirts in other places if you want a shirt. Uh,
it's legally required in many outdoor areas in the United

(58:03):
States because of the fucking president. Um. Or you can
listen to my other podcast It could happen here. If
you want to be sad, it will. It will make
your day worse with knowledge. Listen to it. And I
have a Twitter in an Instagram at Bastard's pod. Well,
Sophie runs both of those. I don't understand Instagram. It

(58:25):
frightens and confuses me. Um. But you can look at
those things. Uh, they exist there in the world. We
have a website behind the Bastard's dot com. You can
find all the sources for this, including Bare Face Messiah,
which you can find free online. I think it's out
of copyright. I don't know. I did buy a copy
of it, but you can also find it for free online.
A chance the church got a little of your money, Well,

(58:47):
no they don't. They didn't publish that book. They do
not like that book. It's a really it's a hell
of a read, though, like the speaking of cutting room
floors as we were earlier, the number of l R
H stories that I didn't include in this podcast just
because as I couldn't make a fourteen hour podcast about
all Ron Hubbard fucking wild. Anyway, I'm gonna throw some bagels. Y'all,

(59:07):
continue your commute or your poopy number five. The episode
is over. H h