Part Six: G. Gordon Liddy: The Fascist Behind Watergate

The stirring conclusion to the G. Gordon Liddy saga, featuring Fear Factor's Joe Rogan.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Who Zone Media. Oh yeah, it's Behind the Bastards, a
podcast that I open with the grunting noises that no
one really likes, no one, No one's happy when I
do this.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Really, it's got, it's got a little like we're doing this.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, it reminds me of home.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
It feels like a safe when I open up pro tools.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
It reminds me of home in a perilous way to me,
but in a way that makes you not want to return. Well,
let's all hope the audience all agrees with Ian and
we didn't. We didn't just torpedo our careers by me
making grunt noises, guttural grunts in order to Yeah, exactly,

(00:57):
good stuff, good times, welcome back to the show. We
are finishing Liddy, what I promise will be our last
episode on the g Man Mixed feelings, you know, ready
to move on to another bastard. But also we get
to listen to a lot of fear Factor today and
that's something that should make everyone happy now. Much like

(01:17):
the Catholics and g Gordon, Liddy was raised as a Catholic,
he kind of becomes agnostic later on. But the Catholics believe,
as I understand it that before getting to heaven, you
generally go through a period in purgatory. Right, Maybe that's wrong,
but let's all just pretend that the Catholics believe that right.
In a similar fashion, before we get to the heaven.
That is, watching a two thousand and six episode of

(01:40):
Fear Factor starring g. Gordon Liddy, we have to go
through the hell of listening to a bunch of clips
from G. Gordon Liddy's incredibly racist radio show. So you know,
buckle up, everybody. Hopefully the Pope will help us out
of this jam.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
It's wild that there was a good I guess the
good period of Joe Rogan is unimpeachably news radio. So
whatever this means, this is this is the purgatory of
Joe Rogan.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
This is right before he goes to hell. He doesn't
make it through the cut, right, Yeah, it's like going
to med's school and becoming a dentist. Ooh that's right,
dentist burns baby. Sorry, you know a lot of people
really enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
By whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's fine, man, it's fine. It's fine. So we ended
last episode with him finishing his book frightening his wife,
singing a Nazi songs. He's back in full He's so
back right, He's doing the full litty So he is, however,
in a pretty desperate financial situation when he gets out
of prison and it still owes about three hundred thousand dollars.

(02:43):
It's a mix of fines and legal fees. He decides
to take a spin at being a writer, because what
other paths are open to him, and in nineteen seventy
nine he writes a fiction book called Out of Control.
It is a spy thriller. The Google book summary of
it does not make it sound like a particularly good one.
Richard Rand is a CIA rogue pulled back into the

(03:04):
company for one last incredible mission. Gregory Ballinger is the
Soviet spy whose empire Rand is out to destroy. But
in a dance of deception from Washington to Switzerland and
South America, the tables are suddenly turned. Someone in Washington
wants the KG beat to wind and Richard Ran dead.
Now so pretty boring, Certainly, I have not found any

(03:27):
evidence that this was particularly good or that it had
any new ideas. Pretty I think he's his idea was
I put out a very basic pot boiler fiction and
hopefully my fame as a Watergate conspirator makes a problem,
you know, not a not a bad idea, No, And
Howard Hunt had done that because he'd been an author before,
like he immediately start and it had worked for him.

(03:49):
Kind of, so I think he's kind of cribbing from
Howard Hunt's worksheet here. We may do a book episode
on this at so at this point at some point,
but I kind of doubt it. He's He's not a
bad enough writer that I think this will be very entertaining.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, that said, his next idea is much better, which
is to write his Watergate memoir, which he publishes the
next year, nineteen eighty, and it sells like a million copies.
He makes a shitload of money off of this, and
once his book becomes a bestseller, Liddy finally finds himself
more famous than he'd ever been, and all these conservative
student associations at colleges around the country start clamoring to

(04:25):
pay him to come and speak at their universities. Now
listeners will know, I am of the opinion that college
campus speaking tours are among the chief threats of our
democracy and should be targeted via air power. However, if
anyone does want to pay me to speak at your school.
I will be happy to do so. So please, Yeah, yeah,
bring me over. I've done it a couple of times.
It's always a good fun. So. The Washington Post reports

(04:49):
on Liddy's comeback tour, and their reporter is bemused at
the popularity that this convicted felon and fascist has with
college students. Here's their article for nineteen eighty. It's incredible.
Jush is Donnie Epstein, Lyddy's New York agent. He goes
to these college campuses and draws a full house. They
start by hissing and booing it. At the end they
give him a standing ovation. He turns them completely around.

(05:10):
They love him. During his speech, Lyddy paces across the stage,
coiling his microphone cord in one hand, unraveling it with
the other. Dressed in a gray suit, wearing spit shined
black boots, he speaks in staccato style, interspersing his dialogue
with Latin phrases and quotes from Julius Caesar. Oh my gosh,
he's good at this. The demand for Lyddy is titanic.

(05:32):
He gives thirty two speeches in the first forty two
days after his booking opens. There are protests by student
groups who are angry, in particularly that their tuition money
is going to fucking g Gordon Liddy. One of the
things that's interesting to me, the Washington Post spends like
a paragraph mentioning the protests. This barely merits a mention
in nineteen eighty when in two thoson seventeen and eighteen,

(05:53):
anytime there were protests of college, there's every the Post,
in the New York Times, they were all all these
quote unquote liberal papers falling over themselves to write articles
about like, well, free speech isn't danger because students aren't
happy that they're paying these fascists to speak. Nobody gave
a shit in nineteen eighty interesting, So that whole article
is a bleak but important read. And I have trouble

(06:15):
not hearing the siren song of the apocalypse in responses
like this from dipshit college kids. He's just so intelligent,
said Jane Copp, a sophomore at Creighton, a Jesuit run
school with fifty six hundred students. Before I heard him,
I figured he was a psycho. Amy Jersik, another Creton sophomore, said,
but he is really fascinating, and he expresses himself so well.

(06:35):
He is just so pro American, such a super patriot,
that you have to admire him even if you disagree.
Aaron de Wald, who was with coppin Jersick, interjected. One
Creighton student described that he as a modern John Wayne.
And look, I know all these kids are old people now,
but listeners, if one of these former students is your relative,
pie him in the face this November, don't even explain.

(06:58):
Why get him right in the fucking kiss with like
a pecan pie. Pecan is the most aggressive pie to
get hit by. Really really bash him with it. You know,
That's that's what we're asking you all.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I mean, this is also clearly cherry picked from the
bozo's coming out.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
It's literally one group of free three friends, right, the free,
shittiest people at the school.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, it's no, I mean it's like, you know, every
college has a fucking libertarian association, Like it's it's those
fucking right wing freaks. Yeah, and like yeah you could,
and you can tell it's because they know what quote
centrist or I'm not right or left of an independent
thinker thing to say.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
But yeah, you know that is of course just code
for right wing freak. That is exactly right, and that
that's that's my take on it to Andrew. So the
next major move Liddy makes is a pretty intelligent one.
He partners up with Timothy Leary to go on a
series of debates and college campuses across the nation. And Leary,

(08:00):
you know, he's this kind of prophet of the acid age.
He becomes this figure who embodies left wing rebellion during
like the hippie period the sixties. He's in jail several
He's broken out once. In the Who's song The Seeker,
you know, I'm the Seeker. I've been searching low and high.
There's a line in there about like asking Timothy Leary
for guidance and stuff like. You know, he is very

(08:22):
famous and very famous specifically for being this like left
wing iconic last and you know he does. He is
in jail, in prison at the same time that Lyddy
is theory. Actually they wind up in the same facility
at one point, and they're both these they're both these
like iconic clasts who are seen as embodying their respective
sides of the political aisle. Right, tim Leary is this

(08:44):
embodiment of the sixties and early seventies left and Lyddy
is kind of the same thing for the right.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I don't want to know true scott'sman this, but it's
also like, yeah, this is like starts to crack into
the moral bankruptcy of the world.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
These like yes, out of here.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yes, I I don't like Tim Leary, right, I'm not.
I'm not a fan of the man particularly, so you
know That's where I'm coming from here. They they have
a lot in common and that they are both famous
and both fame hounds, and they both understand partnering with
each other will increase the appeal. It's also worth noting
that at this time, by the time Leary is partnering

(09:23):
on the speaking too, which is like the early eighties
kind of he is not really left wing anymore. He's
more of a libertarian and kind of that that early web. No,
not that not what libertarian often means today, which is
like even worse than a normal republican. But like that
that is you know, your your pro civil rights, your
you're pro pro you know, legalizing drugs, anti the state generally,

(09:47):
but still also not anti capitalists by any measure of
the imagination.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, still it's taxes. They spend way too much time
talking about taxes, and yeah, it is wild heled.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Modern libertarians are most we just known for try to
defend pedophilia.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
As far as I could tell, it's like give terrrible
heroin to the child I'm dating.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, the modern libertarian.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Giving heroin to the child I'm dating, as opposed to
what it ought to be about, which is arming drag
queens so that they can you know, carry out tactical strikes. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
So.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I found a write up of the tour they did
on reason dot com, which is a libertarian website, and
it's it's sympathetic to both people, right. Reason is the
kind of person who is going to see both tim
Leary and Gebility as like admirable people. Potentially, I'm going
to I think their description is interesting. First off, they
give it a pretty good summary, which is they describe

(10:45):
it as evidence of quote a disorienting moment in American history,
a time after the convulsions of the sixties and seventies
had ended, but while most of the giant figures of
that faded age were still around trying to find a
place for themselves in a changed world. And I do
think that's actually a pretty apt description of what's going
on here. Right quote, don't go in there's a film

(11:05):
that's made about this tour they go on that you
can watch. This is a summary of that film. Don't
go into this film expecting a conventional left versus right matchup.
By this point in his life, Timothy Leary was a
full fledged libertarian. This becomes obvious a little more than
forty minutes into the movie when he stands on stage
singing the praises of voluntary organizations. I believe in bridge clubs,
I believe in families, I believe in friends, I believe

(11:26):
in stock groups, I believe in collectives, I believe in
corporations and damning the one form of organization which is involuntary,
and that's the modern state. He goes on to declare
that every state in the world is a mafia, charging
extortion fees called taxes, but he allows that I love America.
America is the greatest mafia of the all. At another point,
after Lyddy offers a lengthy denunciation of gun control, Leary

(11:47):
doesn't reply with a liberal argument for restricting firearms. He
simply suggests that Liddy's arguments against gun laws work just
as well against drug laws. Now there's a couple things
I would note here. What is that, Like, I agree
with you all all states are mafius. The United States
is the world's largest totally agreed, no disagreement. Why your
corporation's not mafius under what like a hell a fucking

(12:10):
insurance company sticking you up with like not allowing you
to fucking get cancer treatment unless you pay ruin and
like mortgage drafts. How is that? How was that better
than a mob? Right?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Like, fuck fuck you for first off for not seeing
that it's disgusting the degree of surveillance corporation. That's fucking vile.
I think of him.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's better than a mob because any rich person could
buy shares in it, where exactly in a mob. Yeah,
at least some rich people could buy share. Yeah, this
is like like having a debate between like center right
and hard right and claiming it to be like bipartisanship,
and like is truly like presages what the contemporary conversation?

Speaker 1 (12:53):
And this is not all I know? You know, I
come from libertarians, like I come like that. Those were
the people who pulled me away from being a republic
looking and I know a lot of a lot of
republic of libertarians I know are like, well, I believe
in like markets, and I believe in people's ability to
like compete. But I think that like corporations are fundamentally
the enemy of the free market, right that like, actually
what we need to do is break up monopolies and

(13:15):
destroy the ability of And I don't have a problem
with I may not agree one hundred percent, but I
think that's an intellectually consistent point, being like, the state
is a mafia and corporations are. That's nonsense, Timothy Leary,
absolute nonsense. Also nonsense is what he's saying about gun
control here. Obviously I have a different stance on this,
I think from a lot of our particularly more liberal listeners.

(13:36):
But what I will say that doesn't make sense about
this is that the ways in which gun control and
restrictions of drugs harm people, or sorry, the ways in
which the gun issue and harms that are done by guns,
and how gun control affects that is different, Like it
relates to the way in which like drug restrictions and
the way in which that harms people, Like, they're totally different.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Arms.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
A big part of the danger of firearms. The reason
why we have mass shootings and stuff, the reasons why
we have gun crime, is that firearms are incredibly available.
If you care about reducing suicides by guns, mass shootings,
gun violence in general, you have to deal with the
fact that like, the more and firearms there are out there,

(14:21):
and the easier they are to acquire, the more people
who are dangerous will acquire them. Right, even if you
are pro gun, that is a very basic, inarguable fact
that you have to deal with if you if you
care at all about reducing the harm that guns do
in society. Right. The issue with drugs is the complete opposite,
which is that because of prohibition, drugs that are adulterated

(14:45):
show up on the market, and those kill people. The
other issue is that because it is an illegal business,
the price of drugs is artificially inflated to many times
what it ought to be, and so when people become addicted,
they are often forced to do a position where in
order to avoid withdrawal, the only way they can afford
to get high is to steal shit. Whereas if they
could get their heroin for fucking two bucks a dose

(15:07):
from a government facility like they can in a couple
of countries. They would not need to break into people's
houses to afford their fucking fix. Right, These are completely
opposite issues, and like comparing them and saying like, well,
actually the problem with you know, gun control is bad
in the same way. Don't know, they're completely different problem.
Even though I have like a lot of gun control
laws objectively are not effective, which is not to say

(15:28):
that all of them are ineffective. A number of them
do work, but it's a completely opposite issue. The issue
with drugs is that is not that like there's too
many drugs, it's that people don't know what they're buying
and the price is inflated. The issue with guns is
that any fucking asshole can get one. Like, totally different problems.
What I mean, sorry, it's the way they're consistent.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Is what you're talking to the world's dumbest right wing teenagers.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
They're both freedom issues.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I anyway, it's it's whatever. I'm I'm very frustrated
by the Although I do have to say this is
a debate occurring in the mid eighties, a lot of
these problems were not nearly Like, for one thing, mid
eighties mass shootings very uncommon compared to what they would be.
So this is we and so you know, Finanel wasn't
in the market. Both of these problems are very different

(16:17):
when these guys are arguing. So I do have to
I have to give them kind of that point.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Anyway, quite simply has to hand it to g There
we go, So.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
I don't Yeah, I don't want to go on too much.
I'm done ranting about my opinions. There. I will make
one more note, which is that while Leary, the guy
who was famous as a hippie figure, is very much
taking an individualist stance in these debates, Lyddy is the
guy who is coming at this from more of This
is something Reason notes Lyddy is actually more of a collectivist,
which is where because he's talking about like, you know,

(16:49):
because if fascists have a degree of that in them, right, sure,
you know they're like He talks a lot more about
like the community and the people and stuff, whereas Leary
is is really more of a people should be able
to like choose who they associate with. Liddy does not
really believe that. But Lyddy also critiques the prison industrial
complex pointedly in a way that Leary doesn't really spend

(17:11):
a lot of time on, which is interesting to me. Yeah,
he's not consistent about this, but it's interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
G Gordon Liddy has problems with the prison industrial complex. Yeah,
only because he was in prison. Yeah, and he's certainly
never had it before.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
He basically writes that in a column at one point.
But we'll get there. Lyddy's newfound fame earned him constant
appearances on new shows and the talk show circuit. We're
going to play you a clip of him on Letterman
from nineteen eighty two. Letterman does not give this guy
any pushback whatsoever. He does not really question him in
any meaningful way. You can see he and the audience
falling for Lyddy's routine. Lyddy during this appearance discusses the

(17:49):
time that he killed and ate that rat as a kid.
Because you know, people have read the book by this
point and are fascinated by it. He compares it to
the experiences of like guys like POW's who have to
eat rats to survive, and other heroic survivor narratives. When
he's asked to give advice on life in prison, he
goes into loving detail about all the weapons that he
supposedly had. And here I'm gonna have I and play

(18:09):
that clip. Now did you have did you have weapons
inside prison? And how does a person get a weapon?

Speaker 6 (18:16):
You can get anything you want inside of prison, anything,
if you're willing to pay for it and have the
assets to pay for it. The way I got weapons
were some I bought and some I stole, and some
I had made for me by friends, good heavens, and
we're like firearms or actual life. I had a steel
bar with sharp edges with which I could break your legs.

(18:38):
I had a pickaxe handle with a jagged punk of
rusty steel on the end of it, with which I
could make you very unhappy. And of course I had
a knife. You always have a knife, shank as it's
called me shank for.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
You kids watching at home, it's a shak. So it's
frustrated to be the degree to which Letterman and everyone
they're just like, yeah, welcome'm back. He's funny, he's our
everybody's favorite fascist. You know this other shit gets normalized. Letterman,
you were a part of that. Lyddy's book and touring
went so well that Hollywood soon came a call in.

(19:14):
In nineteen eighty five, he was hired to play a
CIA operative who'd become a heroin Smuggler on an episode
of Miami Vice. He is actually a recurring character on
the show Miami Vice. There's a lot that's interesting about
this appearance in particular, but I want to start with
playing a clip of Liddy on the show, and this
is from yeah, an episode of Miami Vice.

Speaker 6 (19:36):
You know, of course that in most parts of the world,
pain is the second language. People understand it better than
words because you can get right to the point. But
in this country we don't really have very much pain,
So the second language is money. Naturally, you'd expect to

(19:57):
receive money for what, you know, that of pain?

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh ironic, you know that's not a that's not a
badly delivered monologue. He's got some he's got Yeah, he's
got stage presence. Like he gets a lot of appearances
in a number of TV shows. And it's not just
because like that's how he gets his foot in the door,
but like he keeps getting appearances because like he's not

(20:23):
bad at that. He's actually like a decent character. Not
the only character he plays is g Gordon Lyddy.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
But yeah, just so bizarre.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
It is one of the again we keep talking about
these modern day fascist media just beIN Shapiro, Stephen Crowder,
Michael Knowles, these modern right wing ghouls that are all
propped up by Petro dollars and the Wilkes brothers and shit,
who are like spending all of their time advocating the
fucking state suppression of transgender people. Scum. These guys are
all Aping Liddy to some extent, but they all have

(20:56):
the opposite path where all of these dudes fucking Michael
Knowles was in a video we ran on Cracked. These
dudes all started out by trying to break into acting
and screenwriting, right They wanted to be Hollywood celebrities, and
they failed out of it because they had no talent. Lyddy,
on the other hand, starts as a right wing ghoul

(21:17):
in politics and then he wins his way into Hollywood
by virtue of some degree of merit.

Speaker 7 (21:22):
Like so we almost all his other Yeah, his like
what skills he has are so bizarrely misapplied at all times.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
It's like maybe if he had started trying to go
into politics, he'd be that guy. You would know him
as like, yeah, I don't know the fucking fed in
the early Avengers movies or some shit, he could have
done it.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, all those guys are kind of like, you know,
she liked your east Woods, like just kind of like
right wing bozos.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, like yeah as evil.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, Like we all more or less forgave Eastwood for
that fucking weird chair speech, not because he knew serves
to be forgiven, but because like he's in some pretty
good movies, and it's like, and he's also in some
pretty racist movies, don't get me wrong, but right, yeah,
like yeah it's fun. It's not like whatever, it's We

(22:14):
mostly ignore it because like, if someone's good at being
on camera, we'll forgive a lot about them. Perhaps we shouldn't,
but we do. Yeah, And yeah, Liddy's you know, he's
not like a fucking historic level talent, but he's not
bad at this. One fun fact about Liddy's second performance
on Miami Vice is that the episode plot is like,

(22:36):
yeah that he's like he's he's funneling. He's a drug dealer, funneling,
selling drugs to funnel money to contras in Nicaragua, which
is funny because like that's what happened, right, that's the
Iran Contra story. But this episode airs a month before
the first article exposing Iran Contra drops this episode.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
So that's fun.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
And like shit like that. You know, it adds to
the mystique of g. Gordon Liddy. Obviously, how could that
not right? That's wild that that happened. That's actually kind
of crazy. Of course that would improve his kind of reputation.
Is this shadowy figure of American politics and cultural life.
You know, it creates something out of a man who

(23:20):
should have buy all right, spent the rest of his
life living quietly in shame. In nineteen eighty seven, his
fame is close to it at its peak, and Lyddy
has what would prove to be the only legitimate and
verifiable violent encounter of his life. He finally gets into
a fight that we can prove happened. It is not
a good time for him. And I'm going to quote

(23:41):
from an article in the Washington City Paper here. The
confrontation took place at Lyddia's isolated Fort Washington home on
Christmas Eve, nineteen eighty seven. According to news reports, Lyddia
discovered a young couple sitting in a pickup truck on
his property. Armed with a billy club, he approached the
vehicle and told the mail driver to scram. Words were
exchanged and the driver at tempted to back over Lyddy.

(24:01):
When that failed, the driver whipped the truck into a
U turn and came roaring towards Gordo. Liddy stood his
ground and was knocked fifteen to twenty feet in the air.
He suffered a broken arm and rib, a ruptured kidney,
and a torn knee ligament. That is so funny, like
he gets he has one encounter. These guys are just

(24:23):
like making out fucking in a pickup truck, and he
charges at them with a stick, thinking like this, scare
him on the dangerous g Gorn Liddy with my billy
club and it just run his ass down, nearly kill
him again. Not a coward, Not a coward, not good

(24:44):
at violence, O now. The article goes on to write,
although he was not able to provide the police with
either a tag number or description of his assailants, Liddy
later began intimating in interviews that mafia friends from his
prison days had identified the couple and would take care
of of them. This never happened. Lyddy is ashamed that
he got his ass handed to him and his only

(25:05):
real fight, and he had to be like, my powerful
friends will take care of him.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
They did.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
You got run over by some teenagers.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Somewhere out there is a hero. Maybe they're dead by now,
it's been a while, but somewhere out there I still
I hope are two heroes who know, like, we hit G.
Gordon Lyddy with the truck. Yeah, right, if you hit G.
Gordon Lyddy with the truck, reach out to US's over, Yeah, exactly.
You gotta be fine. I'd argue at self defense. You know,

(25:36):
come out. We'll put you on behind the bastards. If
you ran down G. Gordon Lyddy with your truck and
have any evidence to corroborate it, come on, come on,
come on over. Folks love to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (25:49):
So.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, it's interesting to me that the fact that you
know this is kind of goes to show despite all
these claims he has about some of these fights, he's
in prison all these times we have to intimidate and
scare people down. A lot of media, basically everyone, even
in the liberal and left winging media, takes this as
red and assumes that he was to some extent a

(26:12):
dangerous man. Sure, I don't think there's any evidence of this.
And again we have this one actual piece of evidence
of how a fight went for him, and it's a disaster.
He nearly dies because he tries to fight a truck
with a stick. Right, that's the level again, these fascists
that can't threat model. You don't even fight a truck

(26:34):
with a gun if you can avoid it, that's not
an even fight. You certainly don't fight it with a stick.
But gee, Gordon Lyddy fucking tries, and all of the
fact that he is a liar, the fact that he's
so inconsistent, the fact that like he is, exaggerating and
puffing up his skills and abilities was all available and

(26:56):
easy to prove to any journalist in the nineteen eighties
who had access with the library. It was easier for
me every time I fact checked him. It was easier
for me to do it. Obviously, I've got Google, I've
got Wikipedia. All that shit makes it a lot simpler.
But that wasn't an impossible dream for a fucking reporter
back in that day. They chose not to fact check
Liddy because he was popular and writing about his antics

(27:17):
meant money. Perhaps the most upsetting example of this was
Connecticut magazine, which paid Liddy to write a column about
his time in prison. It actually starts, Okay, Liddy acknowledges
that he found out having been in prison, that the
liberals who had complained about the injustice of support and
funding for criminal defense resources were right, and that he'd
been wrong for ignoring them. But he spends most of

(27:38):
the rest of the article specifically trying to argue against
gun control by making up conversations murderers had with him,
where they're like, oh, I always vote for gun control.
I love gun control because I am a murderer. That's
my favorite thing. Which these conversations never fucking happened. Yeah,
quote to quote one of the latter. This is Liddy,
to quote one of the latter, who raised his right

(28:00):
hand in the manner of one taking an oath as
he spoke on my mother. When I go on a
piece of work, I don't look to nobody but God
forget been. Something goes wrong and I gotta do what
I gotta do, and the sucker's got a piece. I mean,
it ain't all cut and dried. You know, he can
end up whacking me out. I hope they take away
all them guns from all them legitimate schmucks. Me forget
about it. I'll always have a pistol when I need one. Yeah,

(28:22):
no way, anyone ever said that to you, Like find
murderer says, all them legitimate schmucks get the fuck out
of here. Yeah, what a what a thing to set
to put in the mouth of like your vision of
a street thug. The phrase legitimate schmucks like whacking me out?
Also like, yeah, what do you he is? He is

(28:43):
weirdly mixing like racist people's idea of like what inner
city like like diction is with like a mob movie
from the sixties, Like it's it's so strange. Yeah, if
Martin Scorsese was a bigot, Like that's how good Fellas
would sound Lyddy also argues that since criminality is inherent

(29:05):
to some people, programs that rehabilitate or educate them are valueless,
and again he puts words in them out of prisoners,
who's like, prisoners don't want to go to school, they
don't want to have any sort of like rehabilitation programs.
They just want to do their time.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
And leave.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Great guy. In nineteen ninety one, Lyddy got to have
a conversation with Jack Anderson. Now, Jack Anderson was, during
the period that Nixon was in office, an anti establishment
journalist who did some reporting very damaging to the Nixon
administration and earned their ire. Nixon's people authorized a number
of dirty tricks against Anderson. This is actually really interesting story.
They like feed him some information to get him to

(29:40):
write stories and stuff that will hurt him, and there's
a lot of plotting about like what more we could
do to stop this guy. Lyddy and Hunt actually spend
their early days as White House plumbers working up vary
assassination plots, like they are in the pay of the
White House, plotting for ways to murder a US journalist.
Now there's a lot of debate as to how much

(30:02):
they whether or not anyone else wanted them doing this.
One of the versions of events is that basically somebody
jokes kind of like, yeh'd be good if we could
get rid of that guy, and Lyddya assumes, oh, that's
an order from the White House for me to murder
this way, And when his bosses find out, they're like,
what the fuck are you no, stop like we do
not like g Gordon Liddy, do not assassinate a journalist

(30:25):
on behalf of the Nixon white House. That is not
your job. There's still a lot of argument as to
whether or not there was any serious planning beyond him
and Hunt being maniacs together. I don't want to downplay
this because this is the fact that that there were
people in the pay of the White House talking about
this is a fucking serious thing, right anyway, this is

(30:47):
an issue. Later as a celebrity, Liddy talks to Jack
Anderson and is like, oh, yeah, we were plotting to
murder you. And when when Anderson is asked, like, how
do you feel about the fact that g. Gordon Lyddy
and Howard Hunt we're plotting to kill you? His response
is great given their record, I was in no danger.
The safest place to be is a person who g.

(31:08):
Gordon Letty wants to kill I know.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
The other thing that like is pretty clear from this
is like he was like the precursor to It's okay,
these racist right wing clowns are buffoons, so they're harmless,
Like that's a you know, the whole Trump like thing,
and they're like, oh, Okay, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Don't know that. I think that's really what like Andrew,
because what do you say to like, this guy's plotting
to murder me, Like you're like, yeah, well, thank thank
god he was a dipshit. You know, I don't think that's.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
A bad receeoning. Yeah you don't think so.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I don't know, I mean not from the guy targeted, right, Yeah,
maybe I think it's bad that all these other people
downplayed him and like wrote these positive articles about it.
If you're Anderson in this just being like, yeah, well
he was moron, I don't know. I don't think as
the victim, I think that it's not a bad response.
I get what you're saying. I just don't want to, like,

(32:04):
I don't want to like put the broader media's complicity
in Liddy on this dude who was.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Like oh is no, yeah, sorry, I was trying to
say the other one, which is, yeah, the media, I mean,
like even the Letterman thing. Right, It's like it's like
the same as this Jimmy fallon with Trump, And ultimately
it's because it's like, yes, they're racist, like fas, they're
racist fascists, but at least they're harmless.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I get what you're saying, and
that is something going on here, you know, speaking of
the early nineteen nineties. You know what really became much
more of a problem starting in the early nineteen nineties
the presence of advertising, unrestricted ads. Yeah, that that really
really got a lot worse in the nineties. Ah, we're

(32:53):
back better than ever, I think so the early nineties,
and which the power of talk radio really starts to
make itself undeniable. Rush Limbaugh, who we have discussed in
detail in another series on this show, was the avatar
of this new wave of media right. Rush is really
like the big He's not the first, obviously mean that

(33:16):
guys like father Kauflin in the thirties and shit were
right wing media radio figures. Rush is the first, really
like guy to figure out, in the modern sense, how
is talk radio going to revitalize the far right. It
should not be surprising, then, that he played a crucial
role in bringing g. Gordon Lyddy to the airwaves. From
an article in the right wing paper Washington Examiner quote,

(33:38):
he was asked to fill in for a vacationing talk
show host in the New York area on the first day,
he arrived at with a cold and his voice failed him.
Down the hall, Conservative host Rush Limbaugh had just finished
broadcasting his national show and heard the g man struggling
over the nation speakers. He didn't know me from Adam,
but he came in, sat down and carried me for
the rest of the program, that he says on the

(33:58):
second day, media mobile Mel Karmezan was in his limo
listening to competing radio stations in New York and was
wowed by Liddy's blunt approach and told his Washington station, WJFK,
to give the former Nicks and ad an audition, which
quickly led to a job and a long career on
the radio. When Gordon started at WJFK in nineteen ninety two,
he tried an unusual approach. He read news stories from
the conservative press on air. I just wanted to get

(34:20):
the information out there, and it worked, he said in amazement.
So that's a very anadyninge way of describing his show
and what he does. My description would be that Lyddy's
show was one of the most hateful radio programs to
ever hit the airwaves. If you are a real head
for extremist politics. You will note that in the early

(34:41):
nineteen nineties when Liddy started, this is a period in
which the militia program in this country was supercharged, first
by Ruby Ridge than by Waco. All of this culminates
in the Oklahoma City bombings. Lyddy leans into the violence
of this era because it's anti government and there's a
and Democrats are the ones in office. Right. He makes
jokes about like using drawings of the President and the

(35:03):
First Lady for target practice because he knows that's going
to cause a hubbub. And then when it gets angry
and the White House makes a statement, you know, he
gets to respond to it. It puts his name in
the papers. He is very much playing in the same
way that like his predator or the people who follow
him will play the same playbook. When he gets questioned
about it, he says, I thought, he said, I thought

(35:24):
it might improve my aim. It didn't. Having said that,
I accept no responsibility for somebody shooting up the White House,
very very very blatantly being that kind of guy. Now
this inspires an angry response from the White House. Clinton
references Liddy when he complains about loud and angry voices
spreading hate on the airwaves in the wake of the

(35:44):
Oklahoma City bombing. While the President denied he was calling
out Lyddy in particular, the g man took it personally,
and he said this the next day on his show,
as related by The Washington Post, it's the president who
lies and is deliberately misrepresenting facts. Liddy declared it was
he Lyddy who or in last summer about the increasing
animosity towards the federal government for taking away our Second
Amendment rights. Now, Lyddy denies that his frequent manic warnings

(36:09):
that federal agents were coming to confiscate guns had any
influence on the intellectual climate that culminated in the bombing
of the Mora Building in Oklahoma City. I will say
the arguments he makes in this period are more complicated
than some of his later takes, because when he is
attacking the ATF and the FBI, those agencies have a
shitload of blood on their hands. Right, people should be

(36:29):
angry about Waco, They should be angry about Ruby Ridge.
You know, like awful things were done by incompetent and
like unaccountable federal agents. In both of those cases, and
in a number of other cases. And Lyddy. I think
part of how he builds his following is that, like,
he's not totally wrong when he says stuff like what
I'm about to read you. If they smash in un announced,

(36:52):
screaming at you and assault you with leal methal force,
you have two choices, Liddy said. You can die under
their bullets, or you can shoot back and try to
defend your wife and family. If there were ring flak jackets,
don't shoot them there, shoot them in the head. So yeah,
and this is he also tells if you're not good
enough to shoot in the head, shoot him in the groin.
What's interesting here is that like this is both like

(37:13):
I'm not I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that if
the Feds are going to kill you, you know you go
down fighting, right, not always wrong. This is also terrible
advice from like a gun standpoint, because a flak jacket
doesn't stop rifle rounds, not in any way, shape or form.
So this wouldn't really matter if you're anyway whatever.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
It's just this is a guy that just thinks movie
bulletproof vests exist. Oh yeah, he's never bet in combat.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
He doesn't know anything realistically. This is also isn't This
gets a lot of people get angry at him for
this because they're like, he's telling people to shoot cops.
I think here's usable advice. Like any untrained person if
you're like, hey, what should you do if you have
to defend yourself against a guy who has armor? Was
he like, well, I guess you try to shoo him
in the head, right, duh? Like that's not we're not

(38:03):
talking about Like, that's not that's not secret operator information
only the seals. No, Right, that's that's pretty basic shit.
I think literally one hundred percent of people could could
could guess that, right.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yea, he is not.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
He's not walking you through how to build a trip
mine or set up close circuit surveillance cameras on independent
power so you can like see when the FEDS are
coming and defend yourself. He's being like, you shoot him
in the hood if they're wearing armor. Well, fucking duh,
you know.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, Like well it's also like like this, I mean, yeah,
the way the FBI like birthed this whole movement because
they started doing the shit they've been doing to like
people of color for years, to white people and all
of a sudden, Yeah, the whole right Way movement is like, oh,
massively government now.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
And it's this also, like the fact that the media
has this like outrage over him saying this feeds into
his mystique, builds his fan base, when like, the reality is,
is he inciting violence against federal agents? I don't know,
not more than the federal agents were when they did
the shit at Waco. And realistically, nothing he's telling anyone
is creating additional danger. I don't actually think in this

(39:10):
case he really now. I think the fact that he
is continuing to try to amp people up about you know,
the new world orders coming, Your guns are getting stolen,
you know, the government's going to put you all in camps.
To that extent, yes, he is contributing to a climate
of violence that costs a lot of people their lives.
But I think that the way the media drills in
on this specific statement about shooting cops in the head,

(39:33):
oh sure when they attack you, is silly. That's not
the thing to be angry at here. The thing to
be angry at here is the broader climate of paranoia
he's stoking, not the fact that he is. Because whenever
he when he was talking about this when you're saying, like,
if the Fed's come for you, here's what you do.
He was citing real stories of federal agents busting into
people's homes and like killing their pets and shit, which
like you should be angry about anyway. I think that

(39:57):
part of the response to him, and the fact that
it never It's always the same thing with Alex Jones, right,
Alex will say something silly about like turning the fucking shit,
turning the frogs gay, and that always gets a laugh.
Or he'll talk about cannibalism, or he'll make some kind
of violent threat and that'll get in the airwaves and
it'll bring more people to him. He does this very
consciously now he knows if he says something crazy, it'll

(40:20):
get covered by a bunch of very lazy media figures
who will take it out of context and they will
not report on the act. And in fact, whenever he
winds up in actual court, they usually try to give
him the benefit of the doubt more than they ought to,
as opposed to really understanding the contexts of the actual
danger of the stuff he is inciting. And the silly
stuff is not really part of that. It's just how

(40:42):
he advertises himself, and you're helping him advertise, right. That's
that's kind of how I feel about this shit with Liddy,
so because he's not completely in the wrong when he
gets angry at the Feds. Here, I want to move ahead,
you know about fifteen years to a period in which
g Gordon there's no benefit of the doubt that you
can give the man. This is after nine to eleven.

(41:05):
And you know, nine to eleven didn't make anyone a
better person, but G Gordon Liddy becomes a full fledged
fucking bigot in public. I think this has always been
a part of him, obviously, but the shit he says
after nine to eleven is pretty vile. And here's one
clip from twenty ten.

Speaker 8 (41:23):
I've got a Jewish angle I wish to express this morning,
since you've decided to This is his co host the
first segment of this program.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Mister Liddy.

Speaker 9 (41:29):
No, I thought you're going to say I was being
casual about your religion.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
No, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 5 (41:33):
I never think you're being casual about religion of any kind,
even Islam.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
I don't think you're being terribly casual about.

Speaker 10 (41:39):
No, I'm not casual at all. About Islam. I'm I
want to go over here and take that come out.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
So that's not and this I grab these from Media Matters.
Thank you Media Matters for collecting this. It's kind of
hard with old radio broadcasts. Otherwise he's not talking there
about like terrorists. He's talking about Muslim's period. He wants
to murder Muslims period. Which again, a lot of guys
saying shit like this in the post nine to eleven era,

(42:07):
but it's important to especially as Goofy as he sounds,
listen to what a fucking vile bigoty is when he
has a platform of his own where he can say
any thing. So I want to play you another clip.
Here's him talking with a listener in Texas about the
border and all of the Third worlders who are, in
his view, repopulating.

Speaker 5 (42:25):
The country and uh, and so now we have this
huge population. But it's but the America is not being
repopulated by Americans. It's being repopulated by people who do
not share our values.

Speaker 11 (42:39):
Well, they don't share share our values or our language,
or our culture or anything like that at all. The
there was a book back then written called the Population Bomb.
And oh you're also you know, we're all supposed to
starve to death because there's going to be so many people, right,
and uh, we're getting our vast numbers. You know, people

(43:03):
see you saying, well Hispanics, Well, all that means is
Spanish speakers. You know the Conquistadores who came over from Spain,
uh into you know, the south of the border down
there and conquered it. You know, they were tall, fair people,

(43:26):
and there are still some of their descendants down there,
but the vast majority of more Indians, right, the short
squat and uh, you know, little Indians.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So that's great, Yeah, that's great. That's great replacement ship.

Speaker 9 (43:46):
Right.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
You know, this is the stuff that is now very mainstream.
Lyddy was one of the first guys who had real
Republican Party connections who was deliberately airring and repeatedly talking
this is more than a decade ago great placement narratives
on the radio in the post nine to eleven era. Right.
He is much more direct about this than even Limbaugh

(44:06):
often was, and that is very much important because that
is like the chief Nazi talking point that guys like
Stephen Miller have been very very successful at putting into
the mainstream conservatism in this point, it's to the fact
that it is now a normal stance for them. And yeah,
Lyddy is one of the guys who helped start that process.

(44:28):
So speaking of Lyddy being a literal Nazi, by now
here is him playing a fucking Nazi documentary about replacement
theory on the air during his fucking show. First, we're
going to listen just to a chunk of that documentary.

Speaker 9 (44:44):
Here's a special request research.

Speaker 8 (44:47):
In order for a culture to maintain itself for more
than twenty five years, there must be a fertility rate
of two point one point one children per vamily. With
anything less, the culture will decline. Historically, no culture has
ever reversed a one point nine fertility rate. A rate

(45:07):
of one point three impossible to reverse because it would
take eighty to one hundred years to correct itself, and
there is no economic model that can sustain a culture
during that time.

Speaker 9 (45:20):
Did my part? I had five.

Speaker 8 (45:22):
Children, sets of parents each had one christ there are
half as many children as parents. If those children have
one child, then there are one fourth as many grandchildren
as grandparents. If only a million babies are born in
two thousand and six, it's hard to have two million
adults in out course in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Again, this is all stuff that in part relies on
you don't want anyone new coming in, you want to
kick everything white, right, there's plenty of people, no shortage
of people. The fact that like, yeah, anyway, this whole
demographic decline thing very much a fucking straight up knot.
The argument based on I want everyone to look like
white people that I remember growing up next to as

(46:06):
a kid.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
The the idea.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I mean, I know, it's just like they're like shitty rhetoric,
but they're like the like alighting culture and race is
you know, clumsy, but I know it works with these people.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
So it works with these dummies. It's very bad. This
goes on that clip he's playing from that fucking literal
just Nazi shit goes on for five more minutes, and
then Lyddy comes back in and he's got he's got
something to say. It's time to wake up.

Speaker 9 (46:39):
Boy. What we need is redex I guess, g man.

Speaker 10 (46:52):
And then there's something you can sprinkle down and they
take it back into their pole and the rest of
the colony gets you know, they need it too. You're
referring to ambro antlock mister.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
So he's laughing in a grandfatherly fashion there about using
animal poison to kill non white people.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
It's also like, listen every time conservatives complain about like, oh,
we never like the liberal media won't let our comedy
shows be on the air, it's also because this is
as good as it like, you know, gut Fieled is
the new version of this, and it's like, yeah, the
other reason there's never like sustained conservative comedy is because

(47:41):
it's not funny, because.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Your only joke is what if we did what the
Nazis did?

Speaker 10 (47:46):
Ha ha ha.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
But I'm not a Nazi haha haa, but what if
we did? Like that is the whole joke. That's the
whole bit. That's all they have. So Lyddy is predictably
horrified by the campaign and presidency of Barack Obama. Not
a big surprise, but that that is also it's not
just nine to eleven. That is also part of what
makes him increasingly open about his just straight up Nazi shit.

Speaker 11 (48:09):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
He states on Twitter quote it's a dirty shame kids
in Kenya were not taught how to throw a baseball
like a man in a direct reference to the then
growing conspiracy theory about the former president's place of birth.
I should have looked up whether or not. I didn't
want to, like fact check like is, because you know,
a lot of countries weirdly are into baseball. I don't
know if Kenya is or not, because I didn't want

(48:29):
to feel like it was probably worse to just like
lend that any sort of credence.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
But whatever it wasn't Wasn't Kenya a British colony that'd
be in a cricket.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, they're probably probably more cricket.

Speaker 11 (48:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Japan was is weirdly into baseball, which is why I
say it, right, and like the best baseball player in
history now like a Japanese Yeah, guy, that's that's that's right.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Yeah, Japan's ox ox ophilia.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah. You never know when a country is gonna be weird.
I always I found you. I feel like this happened
a couple of times where you'd be like, oh, I
wouldn't have picked them as being like super into baseball
because it's our worst cultural export, right, The most boring
thing that America ever gave the world is fucking baseball. Sorry, guys, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, yes, yes, Great Britain till the sixties.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Till the sixties. Yeah, oh, I mean yeah, they did
like a genocide there, the mau Maunt Rebellion, but people
in concentration camps right in the post wood to Nightmare
Nightmare stuff doesn't really tie in other than that, I'm
sure g Gordon Lyddy thinks it was awesome. So you
know what he's doing here by bringing this up. This
is like a clear reference to the then growing conspiracy

(49:39):
theory that President Obama was secretly born in Kenya. Right.
Lyddy is a full backer of that, along with future
President Donald Trump. On an episode of the TV news
show Hardball, he makes even more direct statements on this matter.
In two thousand and nine. This one's something else. This
is all a available Gordon. Here it is He's this

(50:01):
is a picture of the actual birth certificate of the
former president.

Speaker 11 (50:05):
Well, I would like to check it out. The preponderance
of the evidence is as follows. You've got a deposition,
which is a sworn statement from the step grandmother who
says I was present and saw him born in Mombasa, Kenya.
You've got the certificate of live birth that they that

(50:32):
they have here it's not a birth certificate, says right
on a certificate of live birth.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Would you claim he was born in the Kenyan slums?
You say that as a fact on.

Speaker 9 (50:41):
The hospital in Mombasa. I didn't say Kenyan slum.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
What a difference, Chris, Chris, I mean in which hospital Mambasa?

Speaker 3 (50:52):
I mean I've been over.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
There's so many times. Where is this all this happened?

Speaker 11 (50:54):
If you have a whole history of this fell in Kenya,
do you have any evidence that ever happened.

Speaker 9 (50:59):
Whatever that he was born in Kenyona? Yeah, I've got
the deposition of the steph grandmother. He said she witnessed it.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Okay, your witness, your witness.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Now, look, there's no deposition. It doesn't exist. He is
lying about having it produced. What he was really what
he like said later is that like, well, we're working
on getting it, getting access to it, but I know
it exists. It was never real. Like it does not exist.
It's just lies. He's just a liar. In two thousand
and nine, journalists Una Lee and Laura Ling were arrested

(51:34):
by North Korean soldiers while filming a documentary on the
China North Korea border. Both women were charged with a
legal entry and sentenced to twelve years hard labor. Now
it just so happens that Laura's sister, Lisa Ling, worked
on the Oprah Winfrey Show, and understandably she used every
piece of cloud that she had to try to get
the US government to take action on saving her sister.

(51:56):
After a week's long campaign, the government succeeded in negotiating
with No Korea to get the women back. Former President
Clinton traveled to Pyongyang to do the handoff in August
of two thousand and nine, after both women had been
captive for one hundred and forty days. This is something
Clinton did before. I think he actually goes in and
helps with negotiations to free Americans North Crea. I think

(52:16):
there's a couple of situations he does that, and also
stuff like this. Former presidents in the modern era have
often kind of done stuff like this, Right, you don't
want to have the president to do it whatever, but
like there's this understanding that they are kind of representative,
that it is a way that the government cannot maybe
directly deal with a country that we have a fraught
relationship with, while also still this is a figure of respect,

(52:38):
you know, if that's important for your negotiations. Not a
really weird thing to do. It also should be pretty apolitical.
These women were not doing anything wrong. This should not
reasonably be a thing that anyone has an issue with. Right,
Someone's got to go get them, thank God. Right, Like
that should be the end of it. G Gordon Liddy,
when he covers this, decide to spend his time discussing

(53:02):
it making a very racist joke. And we're gonna play
that now.

Speaker 10 (53:07):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, those u two young girls
who may or may not have strayed into North Korea
got arrested.

Speaker 9 (53:18):
I have something like ling Lay and wee Wie whatever
their names are.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
So haha, people who aren't white have names I think
are funny. That's the bay.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yeah, it's a it's yeah again. Maybe conservative comedy would
do better if they found another joke.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah. And I'm putting all this to you like rapid
fire because I want to. I want to inoculate you
against thinking g Gordon Lyddy is anything but scum, because
you can when you follow his kind of like sillier
funnier bits, you can forget that. And this man is

(53:57):
a fucking fascist, Like he's a terrible person. He should
have never been let out of a dark hole in
the ground. Don't let's not forget that. That said, we
are going to move on now and we are going
to play a much more fun video because during you know,
g Gordon Liddy, he's one of the pioneers of right
wing media and there is you know, this is evident

(54:19):
primarily in his commitment to reaching new levels of shadiness
and advertising. While he insulted the normal station sponsors as
crafts consumerism, he was happy to become a personal pitchman
for a whole line of health supplements. He's one of
the first of these right wing guys sung like weight
loss and exercise supplements. He really pioneers that. And he
is also a pioneer in selling gold. Oh yeah, guys,

(54:43):
are you ready to watch a G. Gordon Liddy gold commercial?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I'm excited?

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Ah yeah, fuck yes, let's play it.

Speaker 10 (54:55):
You're to pick amy, she's still getting ready, come in.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
How do you plan on supporting my granddaughter? Young man?

Speaker 3 (55:05):
I'm only seventeen, sir.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
What can provide her with the brightest future home? Wrong?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Gold gold.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
It's never too early or too late to secure your
future with gold. Gold is always valuable liquid as smart
by as you might ever make. Who do your trusts
on Roslyn Capital?

Speaker 9 (55:23):
That'so. Roslyn Capital is more than just so cold.

Speaker 5 (55:26):
They give you expert advice on how to secure your.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Face is so creepy.

Speaker 5 (55:30):
Yeah, old, where I buy mine? Rosslyn Capital to the
your free guide to owning gold?

Speaker 12 (55:37):
Many young man, what's the most important thing to remember.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
To secure my future with gold through Rosin Capitol?

Speaker 12 (55:45):
No, to make sure Amy's back by eleven pll Roslin
Capital and tell them Gordon Liddy sent.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
You incredible not to kill back the curtain.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
But uh, the YouTube clip that did treads should into
the contemporary version of that bullshit? Yeah, newer go that
that's a colloidal silver ap Oh yeah, silver at the
same bullshit.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, but isn't it like you eat it or drink
it or put it up your butt for Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah, yeah, it's the same like supplement like unusable. I mean, yeah,
it's not surprising that YouTube is also just the right
wing media, but Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah it is so funny.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
She'd probably do another break.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Speaking of supplements, help help us supplement our income by
buying these products and services. We love you. I don't
actually love them. Guys, don't tell oh my god, we've
come back from break. I didn't mean that. I didn't
mean that. I didn't mean that. I didn't mean that.
Oh boy, oh fuck, oh fuck. Okay. Ian is going

(56:50):
to take a hop off right now to research whether
or not it's possible to edit audio while I guess,
I guess, Andrew you and I will just power through
the rest of this year.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Fuck yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah, good thing. Evil Robert
left because yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, it was evil. That's brilliant, brilliant. Ian, remember that
for next time. Got it?

Speaker 3 (57:10):
You got him out of the studio.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Finally, Yeah, Evil Roberts left. I would never say anything
like that to you wonderful people. So, despite being an
execrable human being, g Gordon Liddy continued to be in
demand among the Hollywood set, who were always willing to
ignore his bigotry and calls for genocide because he was
funny and always good for some buzz Lyddy acted in

(57:33):
a number of films. He is I Think He's the
villain in Camp Cuckamonga. He's in Adventures in Spying. He
makes appearances on mcguiver, Airwolf, Super Wo Force, and Al
Franken's late line to name just a few. He's in
a lot of docs too, DoD documentaries.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, this is like exhibit A on this bullshit that,
like the entertainment industry is quote liberal, like it's pluralistic
because it's profitable. But they fucking people in charge of
this industry at least love a fucking pigot.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Oh absolutely can't get enough of them. Put him on
Al Franken's show Wild Sad that he's an Airwolf, although
I take some comfort in knowing that the helicopter from
air Wolf was later bought by a pervert who had
sex with it. Heah, that makes me feel a lot better. Yeah,
So none of this comes close to Lyddy's crowning achievement

(58:23):
in Hollywood, his two thousand and six appearance on Joe
Rogan's Fear Factor. To be specific, this is celebrity Fear Factor,
and Lyddia makes his appearance here along a heavy serving
of washed up celebrities from mostly like the seventies and eighties.
His chief competition on the episode is Leif Garrett. Does

(58:44):
anyone here remember Leaf Garrett? Yeah, that's fine, because he's
not he barely I don't even know that I'd call
him a celebrity. He'd put out some albums in like
the seventies, nobody alive remembers any of them now. Visually.
The most fascinating thing about this episode is that everyone
else is like from like their twenties or so thirties
to fifty, and Lydia is seventy five years old and

(59:09):
looks looks like I mean, he doesn't aged badly. He
was always in pretty good shape, but like looks like
he's an elderly man next to everybody, which is interesting,
fascinating mix here. So I'm going to play you his
introduction from the start of this episode is when they're
all like, everybody's walking on set.

Speaker 9 (59:27):
I've lived a pretty full competitive life.

Speaker 10 (59:29):
Age has not prevented me from doing anything so far,
and you people put me through all kinds of medical
tests before you let me on the show, and I
passed him with flying color. So that's a.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Oda.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, the absolute cowardice of chiroting him with Watergate figure.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Watergate figure yeah, yeah from which side of Watergate?

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Who knows could be anyone.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Looks like if Hitler had survived and it's like World
War two figure. Yeah, notable person from a second World
War conflict, World War two veteran, Yeah, well known Nazi.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
So the basics of this show are that people are
paired up into teams, all of them celebrities in this instance,
and they have to endure a set of physically unpleasant
and at least faux dangerous challenges together. The winner gets
fifty thousand dollars. Lyddy is paired up with the actress
who played Vanessa Huxtable from The Cosby Show. It's just

(01:00:30):
a wild, wild thing to have happened in the world.
Joe Rogan, a very young Joe Rogan, is clearly in
awe of Lyddy, and he gives it. Really tells you
a lot about how much Joe Rogan understands about the world.
His every almost every word of his introduction is wrong.

(01:00:50):
He tells several lies about the man, and Lyddy does
not correct him, just smiles and nods. So here we go, Temmis.

Speaker 13 (01:00:58):
You realize who you've partnered with. He was second to
j Edgar Hoover. This guy was in the Korean War.
This is the only castrom we've ever had that's in
the encyclopedia. Yes, do you did like burn your hand
with a candle to prove that you could endure pain.

Speaker 9 (01:01:11):
Actually it was a cigarette lighter. I don't know where
the candle light from.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Yeah, yeah, the candle. A good part about him, him
and me, we've both been in jail.

Speaker 9 (01:01:20):
He was very good part about I don't know, but
you know I was. I was in jail a lot
longer than him, in jail four five years.

Speaker 13 (01:01:26):
G Gordon, Once you explained everybody, did you go to
jail four?

Speaker 10 (01:01:29):
I got nine different fellows.

Speaker 9 (01:01:32):
Let's see, there's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Burglary, all related to Watergate, related to the Watergate. Yeah, everything
were guilty.

Speaker 9 (01:01:39):
Of course it was guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
That wasn't guilty enough. I was in detention once.

Speaker 11 (01:01:44):
Did you go?

Speaker 9 (01:01:46):
She I used to be in the FBI, so I
know his rep sheet.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
You know what they got him for impersonating a human being.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
She's making jokes, joke, This is g. Gordon Seinfeld.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
So to everybody laugh and look at how funny this
fucking monster is. Also everything Joe says, there is fucking wrong.
He was never the second, He was never that high
in the FBI. He was certainly not Jay Edgar Hoover's second,
and he did not participate in any way in the
Korean War. He is he is like a he is

(01:02:23):
a Korean War era veteran in that he was around then.
But it would be like if you had an uncle
who spent his two years or whatever in military service,
like sitting at like like fucking cleaning and maintaining vehicles
at a fucking truck pool in North Dakota. But it
was during the Vietnam War. He's a Vietnam era veteran,

(01:02:45):
but that's not calling him a Saying he's a nom
vet would be like, well, no, no, he's not. He
didn't never leave the country. He did not do any
any Vietnam stuff. G. Gordon Liddy was not part of
the Korean War.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Classic right wing shit. You know, yeah, I said, Joe
Rogan's research stoke.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Joe Rogan was. He was like, he's so xightly excited.
He's so we'll talk about why, because I think it's
interesting why I believe Joe Rogan is so into this
guy and what it says about Joe and what it
says about that kind of dude who make up a
significant chunk of the male population unfortunately, but like you
see how they fall for it. Right, like instantly everyone's

(01:03:23):
on board. Liddy's a fairly charismatic guy. He understands how
to present himself around people. He's good at this. This
is a skill, right that is kind of worth noting
when we look at him. I think this episode really
does show how savvy Liddy had become by this stage
in his life. While the other male celebrities are boisterous
and kind of chauvinistic, he is quiet. He's reserved. He

(01:03:46):
feeds into his reputation by being quite saying less is more,
and he understands that. He's also supportive and kind of
fatherly to his young female partner. He's like very very
nice to her in a way that like a lot
of the they're in on the show or a lot cruder,
which I do find interesting. And he just comes from
the fact that he is. He has these He has
these more old fashioned ideas of like how you should

(01:04:07):
behave paternalistically when he wins. He wins the first challenge,
which like is this weird bungee diving game into a
pool where you have to grab objects, and it seems
to reinforce his reputation as some kind of superman, considering
how much older he is than everybody else. The second
challenge is where things get interesting. His partner quits because

(01:04:29):
everyone asks to like sit in these tiny diving bell
like compartments that are pressurized, and then first it's pumped
full of foul smelling, sulfurous odors, so it's like you're
trapped in a big ball of arts. And then it's
heated up to an uncomfortable level so that you're like sweating,
and then like they pour insects and stuff in, so
you have to deal with being covered in maggots and shit.

(01:04:50):
It's all stuff that's like gross and unsettling. It's not
really a danger, right. They do shock people with like little,
very light kind of cattle prod versions at one point.
Everyone else is miserable during this and complains constantly and
is like horrified his things get gross. Lyddy just sits
there quietly with like his legs folded and endures the

(01:05:11):
whole thing with this almost beatific smile on his face.
Here's the segment where the bug shower begins. Lyddy is
just sitting there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
No, not what please just it's John. Are you angry
with her?

Speaker 11 (01:05:45):
John?

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
But I am gus you blame it on me. I
did I quit joke.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
I'm not blaming it on you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
I'm not just because I told her I was scream
It's natural.

Speaker 13 (01:05:56):
I say the beginning said I'm gonna scream, but I'm
not gonna quit Tracy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
You know, g go.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
This is the only that I'll ever know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
We've done.

Speaker 11 (01:06:07):
Wow.

Speaker 13 (01:06:08):
Unfortunately, I know I knew I wasn't gonna get to
the next chair.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Yeah, there's wee definitely advanced. Now it's just to see
who wins the choppers.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Take care, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
There's two motorcycles for whoever wins this. Yeah, and Lyddy
wins them. By the way, shouldn't surprise you if you
know anything about him. This is another thing that he
is definitely good at, is endurance.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Right, absolutely built for this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
There's no skill that is you don't. He doesn't have
to accomplish anything. He doesn't have to like think anything through.
He just has to sit and endure an experience that
he knows is not really dangerous, right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
Like lighting his hand on fire for fun. Yeah, and
everybody already thinks he's a bad as in his mind,
the job is done.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Yeah, and he's done real prison, right, Like it's not
hard to sit in a diving bell type thing for
a few an hour or to whatever be around on
some bugs like, especially when you've had that experience in
her life. At one point, Leif Garrett tries to see
if you can talk Lyddy out of staying in the pod,
and Lyddy says one of the few wantest things he

(01:07:11):
was ever recorded saying, who.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
Gets the choppers? Hey?

Speaker 14 (01:07:15):
Gee, you know what does you don't want a chopper?
There got nothing to do with the choppers. I just
don't for that a boy. Well, we'll see you at
the end.

Speaker 9 (01:07:27):
My red. This was clearly going to be an endurance situation.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
I can endure anything.

Speaker 15 (01:07:34):
After spending one hundred and twenty six days in solitary confinement,
being in a pod was not disturbing to me. Been
covered by thousands of cockroaches when I was in a
filthy prison. So a few maggots and just brushed them away.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yeah, I don't think he's lying there. Obviously he's not
lying there. He does well at this. He wins two
very ugly motorcycles. I'm going to guess he sold them.
They're hideous.

Speaker 10 (01:08:00):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
The final stunt of the day is a driving test
with a car on a stunt track. There's they're obstacles
and stuff. It's like you knows there will be some
fire and shit. Lyddy is supposed to drive around and
through the obstacles, and he he spends a lot of
time bragging about his FBI training and action driving, like
talking about like, well, I've got FBI training, and I
think I know what I'm doing. And then this is

(01:08:22):
the truest g Gordon Liddy. He brags about his FBI
driving skills and then gets in the truck and immediately crashes,
just just instantly drives it into a building. And here's
that clip.

Speaker 5 (01:08:35):
Whoever breaks down?

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
He hate obstacle golf and completes the cars the fastest lens.

Speaker 5 (01:08:40):
And pray, who what.

Speaker 10 (01:08:44):
He's on.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
I'll see if that training helps.

Speaker 14 (01:08:50):
A long time ago man, I think he was a
faster than him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Man picking up his bead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
He lasts. All of his vaunted FBI training allows him
to stay on the stunt driving test half as long
as Leaf Garrett. That's what g Gordon Letty's real skills
bring to the table. Half as good at driving as
fucking Leaf Garrett.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Oh Man delightfully weird holy shit.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
It is very weird and this is the you know,
I don't know. I debated whether or not to go
on this little rant afterwards, but I kept thinking about
what this means, what Joe's fascination with him means, and
kind of the rest of what I know about Joe Rogan,
what he sees his masculinity as heroism. I've been thinking
about all these questions a lot as I've been going

(01:09:59):
through these the episodes, and I keep coming back to
I keep being reminded of and thinking of my grandfather
in this, because I think the difference between the two
men as I knew them says a lot about the
difference between particularly these kind of like mainstream conservative ideas
about what it means to be a man, what it

(01:10:19):
means to be brave. And these are not just conservative,
these are deeply American ideas, deeply flawed ideas versus.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
You could argue that that is that's concerned the same diff.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Right, Yeah, And I think versus what I would describe
as what actually is heroism and bravery, I think is
really worth digging into. So if you'll forgive me, I'm
going to talk about my grandpa a little bit here. Yeah,
you've all learned about g. Gordon Liddy. My grandfather was
I think about ten years older than him. Unlike Lyddy.

(01:10:50):
Lyddy even talks about who is very insulated from the
Great Depression. My grandfather was poor. He came from a
farming family. He is able to get a job with
the Civilian Conservation Corps, which is part of the deal.
FDR had established this organization to hire out of workmen
and have them do stuff like this is where a
lot of our parks come from, right is the CCC
guys build them and stuff. You know, all these young

(01:11:11):
men who didn't have anything else to keeps these guys fed,
keeps them from starving. My grandpa does this for years,
and the money he gets, you know, every paycheck he
would buy a cart and of cigarettes and he'd send
every dime outside of that back to his family to
help keep his brothers and his mom and dad fed.
Nineteen thirty nine or so rolls around. He becomes very

(01:11:32):
aware of Hitler and what's happening in Europe. He becomes
convinced that the US is going to get into the war.
He knows that his brothers will wind up fighting, and
as the oldest brother. He thinks that he should join
first in order to hopefully try and spare them from
some of that. So he joins the military a year
or so before the US gets involved. He's one of
these guys who I think people kind of naturally wanted

(01:11:55):
to follow, and so he becomes a drill sergeant. He
spends most of World War Two training other men for combat,
and repeatedly he feels that he needs to fight, especially
again one of his brothers, his younger brother, the tallest
of the family, winds up in a unit that's going
to be seeing heavy combat. He's going to be part

(01:12:16):
of the Normandy landing. So my grandfather pushes and pushes
and gets assigned to a unit that's going to be
part of the invasion. He gets pulled out of it
at the last minute. And the story I was always
told is that when they were at one of the
disembarkation points, it was really chaotic. My grandpa, being this
kind of drill sergeant dude who feels this inherent responsibility
towards other people, starts going around and like dressing everybody's lines,

(01:12:40):
sorting out their gear, organizing things. He was just kind
of that man. Compulsively, and one of the officers running
the operation sees him doing this and is like, you're
not going anywhere, Garland. We need someone like you here.
So he is forced to stay back home while his
brother and a lot of his friends go over and
a lot of them don't come back. His brother gets

(01:13:02):
shot in the head outside of Bastone, survives, but is
never really the same after this, and you know, he
stays in the army. After World War Two, he winds
up fighting in Korea. He's there, he was actually because
the unit he was with was stationed normally in Hawaii.
He was on his way with my grandma and their
kids to go live there. They were moving there, and

(01:13:24):
he gets diverted as they're heading over. My grandma's left
alone to take care of the family. He winds up
spending however long basically the extent of the Korean War
in Korea. And he starts off as he's a sergeant,
I think maybe a staff sergeant when the war begins,
and sergeants, you know, enlisted in officers are two different things.
You don't go from enlisted to an officer normally because

(01:13:47):
they're two fundamentally different career tracks. My Grandpa goes starts
the war as a sergeant and ends it as a major,
which is like a higher up officer. This normally doesn't happen.
What occurs during the war is that everyone above him
dies so consistently that he winds up taking their jobs,
and he gets given temporary rank that is then later

(01:14:07):
made confirmed as permanent because he's good at it, and
he is running field hospitals on the strength of an
eighth grade education. By the time the war ends, he won.
I think it was either bronze or a silver star.
The one thing I know that he really did specifically
was this moment where there was a bunch of guys
I think twenty or so US soldiers pinned down and

(01:14:27):
injured underneath this bridge and they were trapped. There were
two machine gun nests that had direct lines of sight
and were just firing directly into these guys. We had
very little cover. They didn't have artillery support on the line,
they didn't have air cover. There weren't really assets available
in this area of the line of contact to get
them out. So my grandpa grabs one of his friends

(01:14:49):
and they drive a jeep through two machine guns firing
at them. The jeep gets shot full of holes, they
both get injured, and then while still under fire ode
He described it as stacking them like firewood, twenty men
into the back of this jeep and then drives them
out while getting shot the entire time to rescue them. Warrens,

(01:15:11):
you know, he quits the military eventually and spends the
rest of his career he runs all of the hospitals
in Okinawa, Japan for fifteen years or so. And you know,
these are like triosh units and stuff, so a lot
of people who are really messed up wind up going there.
And again all of this on like the strength of
an eighth grade education. And the thing, you know, we
got to know a couple of the dudes who had

(01:15:32):
served with my grandpa, you know again later on when
they were all old men. There was one conversation that's
really stuck with me, which is one of my guys,
my Grandpa's, like the guys serving under him, was like,
you know, Garland, how did you you know? The thing
that was always interested it was always amazing to me,
is no matter how bad shit got, you were never scared.
And my Grandpa's response was, oh, I was shitting my pants.

(01:15:55):
The whole time. I just couldn't let any of you
know how scared I was right. And I know that
was long digression. I apologize. But the thing that makes
me think of when I think about Lyddy.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
G.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
Gordon Liddy's entire concept of courage was as an individual
doing something dangerous to prove your manhood. And he was
psyched to get a chance to go to prison for
Richard Nixon, no matter what it cost his family, because
it meant he got to prove he wasn't, in his mind,
a coward. And I contrast that with what my grandpa's

(01:16:30):
life experience tells me. He viewed as the meaning of
courage of being a man, and it was never taking
a student, it was never throwing himself into danger. It
was care. His entire life was an exercise in caring
for the people around him and the weight of responsibility

(01:16:51):
first to his brothers, to his family, to his country,
to the world. You know, when he joined for World
War Two, to the men around him. Throughout his period
of service, he was never doing anything to be a hero.
He was acting consistently and no matter what it cost him,
to save lives, to protect people. And I think that's

(01:17:14):
the difference between what heroism means to someone who has
been through some of the worst experiences. You can see
what bravery means, what doing the right thing is versus
what these children, and I include Joe Rogan as a
mental child, believe courage is. Joe Rogan is so impressed, Wow,

(01:17:34):
looked at him, me so tough. He can have bugs
poured on him, and shit, fucking Joe wouldn't know courage
if it jumped up and bit him in the fucking ass.
Courage is taking care of people, even when it means
harm and sacrifice on your own behalf. Courage is not
sitting in a fucking sphere while people pore bugs on you,

(01:17:56):
and it's not sitting in a prison to protect Dick
Nixon while you're family suffers. Anyway, that's my rant.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Yeah, wells, yeah, it's not just that, and he like doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Yeah, the whole concept of masculinity is like it's so sad,
like we just yeah, did it need any of this
to happen? And the way it harms like its worst
like perpetrators as well, is so fucked up. We're just like, guys,
none of this, none of this is necessary. None of

(01:18:29):
this has to be like this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah right. G Gordon Lyddy lived a
fifteen years after fear Factor. He lives to be ninety.
He dies in the spring of twenty twenty one in
his daughter's house after struggling for several years with Parkinson's,
which is also what got my grandfather. By the way,

(01:18:50):
he lived long enough to see the rise of Donald
Trump and January sixth, although by that point he was
mostly out of the spotlight. He also lived, interestingly enough
long enough to see one son, Raymond Liddy, sentenced to
five years probation for storing a cash of child pornography
in his Coronado home. So one of the suns he

(01:19:11):
raised is a child porn Officionado. His other son is
better Tom Liddy has a more auspicious career as a lawyer,
where he represented Mericopa County during a twenty twenty lawsuit
with the Trump campaign over what it claimed were falsified ballots.
Liddy succeeded in getting the case dismissed, which earned him
to an avalanche of death threats from Trump people. So

(01:19:31):
the Lyddies, the Liddies contain multitudes.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Yeah, although you know what the way that they don't
is like, you know, don't there's just a world where
like that was my job, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think he's a
great perer. I'm sure he's not a great I don't know. Yeah,
maybe maybe he is, right, I don't know. I don't
know specifically that he isn't either. I guess, Yes, why
am I casting dispersions?

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Why why am I shit talking? Because he can't be
he can't be held responsible for his dance sucking. So yeah,
that's me being a little bit of a dick. I
have no reason. I know nothing about him other than this,
and that was not a bad thing to do.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
So there, you know, right, holy shit, what fuck it.
I'm glad we got to finish the take.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Yeah, I think it was the right call. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
What a life?

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
What a life? What a weird fucked up what a weird,
fucked up miserable less Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
No, And I guess that's the thing. It's like none
of the lessons will ever be learned, Like even this,
no one listening to this is not no one, But
you know, they're not susceptible in the same way to
whatever the fuck he has going on. He and Joe
Rogan have going on.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Anyway, you need to plug Andrew?

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know, you know, is this racist?

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
We're not as well researched, but we're just not as
well researched.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
Kind of the same vibe though.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Yeah, so uh there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Yeah, I uh, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
I'm tired. We're done.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
We're all going to going on. We're all going to
go get into our diving bells. I just meditate for
a couple of hours.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Yeah, and Phil, Yeah, just ponder good stuff, you know,
interesting code of people might fight when I just not
long ago, and you know, when I was living in
Portland in twenty twenty during the riots, big part of
my support system was my my technically my land lady,
you know, we just kind of lived in adjacent houses,

(01:21:37):
who was a Chinese citizen about my age, and we
found out during like one of the early pandemic conversations
when we were locked in together, that her dad, who
served in the Chinese military, probably was very close to
where my grandpa was during several parts of the war.
One of the things she said was like, well, I
don't think he was a very good shot, And I

(01:21:59):
was like, well, I guess I'm buck.

Speaker 10 (01:22:00):
You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Neither of them got the other. That would have been
real bad. But I don't know. Something hopeful on that, right.
You know, that was a terrible war. A lot to
say about all of the awful things that we're done
in that war. But yeah, we wound up hanging out
during the COVID year and supporting each other. That's nice. Yeah.
So anyway, there's your moment of hope.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
Nothing about politics makes sense, right, nothing about politics, about history.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
It's all fucking yeah, yeah, yeah, shit happens anyway for real. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
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