March 14, 2019 • 50 mins
In Part Three, Robert is joined again by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to discuss George Lincoln Rockwell and how his ideas have gone on to have influence every level of the radical-right wing ecosystem.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm. What. I don't have an intro my audience because
we are like two hours and change into talking about
George Lincoln Rockwell, and I am I'm just broken. There's
only I have to fix myself somehow. I have to.
I have to get myself back in the fight. I
(00:21):
think this cathartic release of pent up information and frustration
will be good. You know what else might be good.
You know it might get me back on track. So
we could do this last part. Oh and I picked
it particularly. My mouth just started flavor is cut your
tongue up? Alright, alright, alright, mm hmm beautiful. I could
(00:45):
taste them now. I'm jealous. You can have a derrito
as many as you one cream. There are so many.
You have to listen to the last one to knowles
be okay, but you should be listening to three with that.
Don't listen to part three if you're oh, Katie, that
was a perfect crunch. I do apologize to uh, to
(01:06):
Molly and my other listeners who hate the sound of
crunching derritos. The person who's like, I don't like when
you crush she's great, yeah, but yeah, she doesn't like
the sound of crushing doritos. All right, We're done with
the crunching of derritos. If you want to crunch one cream, yeah,
rhymes better m hmm. I do keep singing out in
my head different tunes, but I'm not going to do
(01:27):
that to you guys. One crunch one cream. You cut
that crunch and cream in the night. So I kid
so I can't. IM so sorry. I brought this on tremendously. Sorry,
(01:49):
this this is terrible. It's still this cream, which needs
to be refrigerated, is still off the table. It's it's
still it was behind the sink like it was soap.
So I do wash my hands with hazelnut cream. All right,
it's today's episode of Behind the Bat, which I did
(02:10):
not even introduced, but right now you know where you are.
This is a podcast where we talk about terrible people,
and we're talking about one of the worst that there's
ever been, the the fucking J R. R. Tolking of Racism,
the What's another foundational the Bill Gates also racism, the
(02:33):
Steve Jobs of American Fashion, George Lincoln Rockwell. Now, in
episode one and two, we talked about Rockwell's life is stunning.
Variety of innovations which we're not at the bottom of
yet to be at the bottom, which you really want
(02:55):
to be at the bottom. And of course we talked
about his death where he was murdered by one of
his allowers who went on to become not a Nazi,
and his um classically handsome bones structure and his classes great,
we're not we don't hate his bones trap taller than Hitler.
Hitler too, which is which is important for America. It
(03:17):
would be amazing if that's the one that if you
transplanted Hitler in America, the only reason he did wouldn't
take off the guys. I mean, it's the thing. The
Germans are just not shallow enough so we can embrace
a short fascists like embracing that slogan vote for me
taller than today. We're talking about Rockwell's legacy. In addition
(03:46):
to obviously the legacy of trolling college campuses for the
nation's Holocaust denial and the Nazism, We're talking about a
much more complex and bloody legacy, all of that legacy
that ties in literally every act of far right violent
terror you have heard about in your entire lives. From
g l R in the early nineteen eighties, a far
(04:07):
right radical named Robert J. Matthews created what he called
an action group. Its original name was The Organization, but
eventually he settled on calling it the Order. He recruited
a small squad of other Oh just wait, it's even
losery then you understand right now? He recruited a small
squad of other like minded men. The Order was a fascist,
white supremacist terror group. Its goal was to destabilize the
(04:30):
fabric of American society through violent attacks. The Order funded
its operations by robbing banks and armored cars. They carried
out three murders, including the highly publicized assassination of Jewish
American radio host Alan Berg in nineteen four. The Order
was eventually infiltrated and wiped out by the FBI. Matthews
died fighting after a thirty six hour long standoff. Well,
(04:50):
they did not succeed in destroying the fabric of American society.
The Order did steal millions of dollars, at least a
million of which was never recovered by the authorities, and
probably went on to finance their fascist terror. Thirteen white
supremacist leaders were prosecuted for taking Matthew's money, so it's
anyone's guess as to how many other violent racists he funded.
They committed like twenty something robberies that were successful. Robert
(05:12):
met J. Matthews, never met George Lincoln Rockwell, but the
Commander had a strong impact on his life. Nonetheless, this
was thanks to a book, The Turner Diaries, written by
William Luther Pierce. Pierce had started life in nineteen thirty
three as a quiet, kind of geeky kid. He later
described himself as sort of a nerdy kid without social skills.
(05:32):
He was awkward around girls and obsessed with science fiction.
When he grew up, he became a pretty good physicist.
Pierce became aware of Rockwell in nineteen sixty three when
he saw the Commander on TV addressing a crowd of protesters.
According to one of Pierce's co workers, who was interviewed
later by the FBI, quote, he was looking for a
simple solution to the problems of the world that he
(05:54):
doesn't provided that simple solutions to complex problems. Just blame
it all on the people with three still things are
on their names. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a report,
the Turner Legacy, published by the International Center for Counter Terrorism.
Here's how it summarizes the path of Pierce's radicalization. Quote.
You can do nothing until you've reached the masses, Rockwell
(06:16):
explained in an interview. In order to reach them, without money,
without status, without a public platform, you have to become
a dramatic figure. Intrigued, Pierce wrote a letter to Rockwell,
and they struck up a correspondence. In nineteen sixty five,
Pierce moved from academia to work with a defense contractor
in Connecticut, and he began driving on weekends to the Washington,
d c. Area, where Rockwell was based. He also spent
time at the Yale University Library reading alarmist books about
(06:38):
racial trends, many dating back to the nineteen twenties and thirties.
As his relationship with Rockwell was blooming, Pierce was granted
a secret government clearance through his job. Although he never
worked on a classified project, he rarely displayed his racism
to co workers. When the FBI opened an investigation of
Rockwell's American Nazi Party agents spoke to his former colleagues.
Many found him distant and impenetrable and expressed their intent
(07:00):
dislike of him as a person. Nevertheless, they conceded he
was a first class physicist. Science It's just science. It's
just science, science, race science. In nineteen sixty six, Pierce
was responsible for launching National Socialist World, a quarterly journal
of all things Nazi. The n SW eventually attracted more
than a thousand subscribers. It was one of Rockwell's a
(07:22):
and P's few profitable endeavors. After Rockwell's assassination, Pierce went
on to found a group called the National Alliance, but
his true love was writing unspeakably racist fiction. In nineteen
seventy eight, he published his opus, The Turner Diaries. Pierce
imagined a near future world in nineteen ninety one when
a new American government called the System enforced racial integration.
(07:44):
Since Pierce was a Nazi, he imagined the System as
run by Jewish people with black people as their enforcers.
The System in The Turner Diaries is portrayed as the
ultimate far right fantasy of a far left government, tax
breaks for mixed race couples, their appeal of rape laws
because they're seen as a front to race and gender equality,
and of course, gun confiscation. The book is written as
(08:05):
a series of diary entries from a man Earl Turner
who joins a terrorist group called the Order and takes
part in a violent revolution to conquer the United States
for white people. The Order funded itself through bank and
armored car robberies. They assassinated left wing and Jewish politicians
and media personalities, and bombed government buildings. This eventually sparked
a gigantic race war, leading to a global genocide of
(08:28):
all non white people's and the establishment of a coccasoid utopia.
This was the happy ending of them. Yeah, that's the
happy ending the book. It's not explicitly Nazi through most
of it, but at the end they refer to something
happening as being a hundred and thirty years after the
birth of the Great One, which of course at all Hitler. Yeah,
he's a nerd like self, admitted, a sci fi nerd
(08:50):
who was bad with women, who went on to write
racist science fiction. Ye be a Nazi nerd. Yeah, that
keeps happening despite its terrible guy. It's a nice guy.
Girls don't like me. Physics. Nothing's wrong with physics, despite
its terrible plot, absurd racism, and clunky style. The Turner
(09:11):
Diaries include some pretty apt observances about the nature of
terrorism in one passage. Turner notes that the system furthers
its own destruction by reacting to the Order's terrorism by
instituting emergency powers and clamping down on individual liberties. Turner
also discusses the idea of propaganda of the Deed, which
started with anarchists, and like the eighteen hundreds and his wife,
(09:32):
President McKinley did not finish his term. The organization prioritize
it to tacks that do economic damage, like bank robbery,
because those things make middle class white people the most
frightened and uncomfortable. Quote. What is really precious to the
average American is not his freedom, or his honor, or
the future of his race, but his paycheck. He complained
when the system began bussing his kids to black schools
(09:54):
twenty years ago, but he was allowed to keep his
station wagon and his fiberglass speedboat, so he didn't fight
m Not surprisingly, the Turner Diaries was Robert Matthews's favorite book.
It directly inspired the creation of his own the Order.
The Turner Diaries was required reading among the terrorists Matthew recruited,
according to the Turner legacy quote, and he recruited a
(10:16):
former klansman Thomas Martinez into the group. He did so
by handing over a copy of Turner, one of the
scores that he kept in storage. Members of the group
referred to the book as their Bible. Tom In There
Is What the Future Will Be, Matthews told Martinez, you
must read it, you must, But it doesn't go much
further than that. We're done, right, We're done. That's it.
(10:39):
Your your your twitters and lovables. Yeah, let's read the
next paragraphs. Sither anything else. During his time the A
and P, Pierce had come to believe that the showy
displays of white nationalism, the swastikas and clan robes then InVogue,
alienated what he called normal people. Near the end of
his life, Rockwell had been making the exact same moves,
engaging in a process of denocification to try and appeal
(10:59):
to more mainstream white people they might call them trying
to red pill them about white power. Obviously, the Turner
Diaries did not have that much more mainstream appeal than
Rockwell's A and P, but it did succeed in appealing
to a broader base of radicals than say, Stormtrooper magazine.
One of those radicals was a young man named Timothy McVeigh.
(11:22):
The Turner Diaries was Timothy mcveigh's very favorite book. Now,
McVeigh was not an ideological racist first and foremost. He
definitely ran with and was associated with some racist groups,
but he was more of an anti government, pro gun
nut than like a specific Nazi nut or anything like that. Uh.
And he was of course a lone wolf um. But
(11:43):
he did hate the government. He viewed it as a
nightmarish monster bent on stamping out all human liberty, and
he saw the Turner Diaries as an entertaining blueprint for
how that monster might be killed. The structure of mcveigh's
attack on the Murray Building in Oklahoma City was directly
inspired by a passage from the Turner Diaries. At one point,
Earl Cell bombs the FBI headquarters, which is of course
(12:03):
the first place that tim McVeigh thought about bombing before
he decided the Murra Building would be easier. Pierce goes
into exhausted detail about the bomb that they used to
blow up the FBI building, a truck bomb made with
forty four hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate, essentially the same
advice the device McVeigh constructed. And used to destroy the
Murra building. On the day McVeigh detonated his bomb, killing
(12:24):
a hundred and sixty eight people, he put together a
manifesto in an envelope in his car and included many
photo copied pages of the Turner Diaries. McVeigh had highlighted
one passage in particular from a chunk of the book,
where Earl Turners cell carries out a mortar attack on
Washington d C. Quote. The real value of our attacks
today lies in the psychological impact, not in the immediate casualties.
(12:48):
More important, though, is what we taught the politicians in
the bureaucrats. They learned this afternoon that not one of
them is beyond our reach. They can huddle behind barbed
wire and tanks in the city, and they can hide
behind the concrete walls of their country estates, but we
can still find them and kill them. That's what McVeigh
highlighted after blowing up the Oklahoma City bombing, which included
a daycarefull of babies. Weird way to read that line,
(13:11):
but you are just like we all have different reactions
to art. That's a gracious interpretation. A year before mcveagh's attack,
the Aryan Republican Army carried out a series of bank
(13:32):
robberies inspired by both Matthews Really Order and The Order
from Pierce's book. Some of those people were later linked
to the Oklahoma City bombing. The a r A put
out a two hour video statement at one point that
urged people to read the Turner Diaries. They also stand
hard for Christian identity, which is an incredibly important ideological
movement that's also tied into all of this. And then
we'll get into more in the audio book that I'm
(13:54):
putting together. We'll talk about that something. Get the End
to Um. The Arian Republican Army carried out twenty two
operas in seven states before the FBI took them down.
They were succeeded by another terrorist group, the Aryan People's Republic,
who carried out a murder, bombing, and robbery campaign in
nineteen seven that killed five and ended in a massive
police shootout. Both groups were of course, directly inspired by
(14:14):
the Turner Diaries. On April twelfth, nineteen ninety seven, Larry
Wayne Schumach of Jackson, Mississippi, shot eleven black people, killing one.
When interviewed later, his friends and family all said he'd
undergone a sudden shift towards violent radicalism after reading the
Turner Diaries. Might be one there, you might be reading
(14:35):
into things a little bit. Yeah, you're sounding like a
conspiracy theorist. I'm just acknowledging a pattern. Three white dudes
and jasper Texas chained a black man to the back
of their pickup truck and dragged him down the road
horrifically torturing and killing him. One of the men gave
this statement to the police, we're starting the Turner Diaries early.
(14:56):
That is technically incorrect because the nine one, but you know,
racist and we're finally starting finally. That would that would
have been the right way for this murder. Technically, that
would have been one of the cops who read the
Turners in. David Copeland, a British man, set off several
(15:20):
shrapnel bombs in London. His targets were black and gay people.
He killed three and injured a hundred and forty and
his confession to the police, Copeland said, if you've read
the Turner Diaries, you know in the year two thousand
there will be the uprising and all that racial violence
on the streets. My aim was political. It was to
cause a racial war in this country your two thousand.
The list goes on and on, and on and on.
(15:43):
There have been fatal attacks in Germany, Ukraine, and many,
many more attacks in the United States by people who
claim the Turner Diaries as their direct inspiration. As of
two thousand sixteen, the book has been tied to more
than two murders and dozens upon dozens of separate attacks
and foiled attacks. Christopher Hassan, the Coast Guard lieutenant who
was cott in two thousand nineteen before he would carry
out his plan massacre, was a huge fan of the
(16:05):
Turner Diaries. William Pierce died in two thousand two of
being an old ass piece of ship. Before he died, though,
he gave interviews to a biographer and those he was
questioned about some of the attacks his book had inspired.
When he was asked about Robert Matthews, founder of the Order,
he said, this Bob was a very intense young man
and quite different from the weaklings I see so many
of in America today. Bob was obviously very much taken
(16:27):
with the Turner Diaries, and it was clear he drew
a lot of the elements from the book and the
way he did things, and the term terminology he used,
and so on and so forth and so forth. That's
not it. The Turner legacy went on to note, quote
Pierce eulogized Matthews repeatedly in interviews and on shortwave broadcast
of his National Alliances radio program with McVeigh, the calculus
was more complicated, the backlash more severe. Pierce took pains
(16:48):
to say that he had never met McVeigh and there
is no direct evidence to say otherwise. Although mcveigh's telephone
records presented in court showed that he made efforts to
contact the National Alliance prior to the bombing, Pierce was
defensive about whether and how specifically McVeigh his actions could
said to be have been inspired by the book, despite
a mountain of evidence pointing towards its relevance. Waco was
the inspiration for Oklahoma City, Pierce argue, not his book.
(17:09):
They both were Yeah, yeah, I've read your book, man,
But yeah, did he use the same bomb that you
described in Loving to Tell? You did say he had
the highlighted pages in his manifesto after the bombing. I
don't know. That seems like a pretty seems like a
big face that they were tied. Well, maybe the Blayton
racist isn't great on understanding evidence. Well, that seems weird.
(17:36):
We could talk about William Pierce in the Turner Diaries
all day. You'll get more on that in the audiobook
thing that I'm shamelessly plugging, still shamelessly. But this episode
is above all else about George Lincoln Rockwell's intellectual legacy,
and that legacy is a lot bigger than the trail
of blood Bill Pierce left behind. James Nolan Mason was
born in nineteen fifty two. He grew up in Chillakothe, Ohio,
(17:58):
and like William Pierce, he saw lurid news coverage of
Rockwell's rallies and speeches. Mason became enthralled with the American Fewer.
At age fourteen, he started sending him letters. Rockwell wrote back,
and Mason became a member of the A and P
Youth Organization when he turned eighteen, who was inducted as
a full Stormtrooper. After Rockwell died, Mason moved on to
the National Socialist Liberation Front and eventually formed a group
(18:20):
called the Universal Order. In the nineteen eighties, he started
writing a series of papers for a neo Nazi newsletter Siege.
In those articles, he advocated for what he called leaderless resistance,
autonomous terrorist action by individuals and small groups rather than coordinated,
large scale movements because the FBI kept infiltrating those. Yeah. Yeah,
(18:43):
speaking of which, on the subject of FBI infiltrading people,
you guys remember Trooper Oak. Yeah, previously Pine Broochude or
something that he was actually like a college student researching
file and extremism who went undercover in the group to
like write about them and stuff. Yeah, they got infiltrated
a number of times. Good stuff, man, because birches towards
(19:13):
it's all making sense. We guess Tree, you're an Oak
and a cop apparently, well it's counting violent extremism researcher. Yeah, good,
thanks Trooper Oak. Yeah, thank you, Thank you. Mr Burcharde.
(19:35):
Not not the ads, no, but you might be able
to buy one. Oh yeah, I don't know what these
ads are for. Maybe they're an ad for ads. Maybe
their ads for ads. Let's hear them. We're back. Yeah,
(19:56):
we were having a fun little break chat about all
the kids in cages. Not cages, you're right, areas areas
that are caged for safety, for safety, safety boxes. Safety
wouldn't use the word cage for kids. Crib cute metal crib,
(20:21):
acute little metal crib. We put them in nurseries with bars,
with bars, bar nurseries. All right, let's go. Let's get
back to talking about James Nolan Mason. So uh, Mason
started writing for after Rockwell died and he left, started
writing for a newsletter called Siege, and you know, advocated
(20:41):
for leaderless resistance and stuff like that. Many of his
writings were collected into a book, also called Siege. Here
is a quote from that book, The lone wolf cannot
be detected, cannot be prevented, and seldom can be traced.
If I were asked by anyone of my opinion on
what to look for or hope for next, I would
tell them a wave of killings or assassinations of system
(21:02):
bureaucrats by rovan gunmen who have their strategy well mapped
out in advance and well nigh impossible to stop. I
should note here that Chris Hassen's planned shooting spree of
you could call them bureaucrats, elected political officials and journalists
and the like. Uh people know it was stopped. I
think a lot of people think it was stopped because
the FBI was out looking for white nationalists, you know,
(21:25):
terrorists infiltrating these organizations. As they said, he was caught
because he was buying tramadal in his work computer. He
was illegally buying pain killers. And that's the only reason
I caught. I found out about the massacre by accident. Yeah,
that was an accident. That was a totally, totally, just
a happy accident. They were just busting him for drugs.
(21:46):
I feel safe. I feel safe. It's a real problem.
There were a lot of d s A people on
his kill list. Some people are saying, if you're in
the d s A, maybe arm yourself. I'm not saying
arm yourself. I'm saying that the police aren't really good
at catching the Nazis who want to kill you in
their old organizations, who like actively has have said in many,
(22:09):
many years that they're going to try to infiltrate law
enforcement organizations in the military for these purposes. I'll say
self defense is important for anyone, especially the politically active,
and there's a variety of pathways to self defense. So
consider how you plan to defend yourself consider consider we
love sometimes sometimes that works with my feet and my fists. Wow,
(22:33):
maybe body armor protection, a little bit of body armor
mutual aid in case I go yeah, magic magic Harry
Potter would be really useful, right like like if like
like a grand like a wizard like well no, no, no,
(22:56):
far too far to not use the words right, yeah,
well you used him that Maybe a warli maybe a
warlick like a great war, a great world, solid wizard whatever.
Still not clear why but I don't know why. But
(23:16):
just back on the subject of siege. On March one, two, eighteen,
Adam Often burst onto the American consciousness with the murder
of Blaze Bernstein, a student at the University of Pennsylvania.
Bernstein's murder was tied to a member of the group
Adam Often because Blaze was homosexual and Jewish and basically
the distillation of everything Nazis. Hey. British journalist Jake Hanrahan
did a lot of that reporting. By the way, He's
(23:38):
got a podcast, Popular Front that's really worth checking out.
He's a great guy anyway. Adam Often is a multinational
terrorist group that sprang up like mushrooms on the damp
bathroom floor of the Internet. There are somewhere around twenty cells,
perhaps more, perhaps less, mostly small groups all around the
United States and in Germany. Five deaths of so far
been tied to Adam Often. One other thing Adam Often
(23:58):
did was republished James Mason's Siege, a book they basically
consider their bible. Now. Siege has not yet inspired as
much direct violence as the Turner Diaries. That would be
hard to do. It was sort of rediscovered pretty recently,
starting on the old neo Nazi forum Iron March. Over
the last several years, a whole online subculture has spread
(24:18):
out around the book. If you spend a lot of
time reading messages from members of the Bull Patrol, for example,
they bring up Siege all the time. You guys know
about the Bull Patrol. Don't you guys know about Dylan Roof. Yeah,
the guy who in two thousand fifteen walked into a
black Churt's in Charleston and murdered nine people. He had
a bowl haircut, and so there's people online who call
him Saint Ruths. They called themselves the Bull Patrol because
(24:42):
they too would really like to uh murder a bunch
of black people. God, and they love Siege. Big fans
of Siege. Quick question, almost publishing these books still, Adam
often Adams publishing them. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that
does make sense. Um so, yeah, the Bull Patrol and
Animal often both bring up Siege a lot. There's also
(25:03):
a YouTube channel I found called read Siege. They put
up dozens of videos that have racked up more than
thirty five thousand views, which is not a lot for
a YouTube channel, but it is a lot for homicidal
Nazi propaganda. Think about people that, well, probably just a
couple of just a couple of thousands shooters, Katie, how many?
That's not that many mashoots. There's a couple of thousand
(25:25):
fans of a mass shooter. It's in the and a
Mass Shooter book, and that's your book. Um. So the
Bull Patrol is specifically Dylan Roof. There's also that in
cell from like three or four years ago, Elliot Roger Rogers, Yeah, Rogers.
And they're all kind of gradually morphine like, like congealing
(25:47):
together into the same water ecosystem of people who are
probably going to shoot up a bunch of innocent people. Right,
here's my resentment, here's your resentment. What if we are
all resentful together and what if we all convince each
other that the Jews are a part of it, which
is increasingly affect Yeah. Yeah, weird how it always gets
back to Nazis, Like it is weird. You scratch any
(26:07):
of these groups of like psychotic kids who want to
murder a bunch of strangers, and you always keep keep
finding Natzis. Yeah, they fear the same thing and they
want the same thing. Yep. Weird, weird, weird. Although all
of this news makes it way easier for me to
understand stuff like you read about the Holocaust, It's like,
how do you find all those people willing to work
at those ohio of them? Okay, okay, gotcha and easily
(26:31):
moved across. You can do a lot of stuff with them.
There's a lot of maneuvering that can be done with
those kids of people. Yea cool, cool, cool. So the
read cs YouTube channel has titles in it like the
Lost White Civilization of China and a thirty seven minute
We're going Back and a thirty seven minute video titled
(26:54):
who were the Jews? Oh? I bet you, I bet
you find out that you fund out a lot. Many
of their videos are just readings from pages of Siege.
I would like to play a chunk from one of
those videos titled what can we dispense with? President? To
dogcatch or they are all the same bureaucratic sellout swine.
No distinctions are to be drawn, meaningless considerations of parties
(27:18):
of left and right, and even individual identities names, et cetera,
are simply not to be used. To kill an ism.
You have to kill the ISTSI anti Semitism, I have
to kill anti right. I bring this up because it
(27:40):
highlights an important difference between the mentalities nurtured by Siege
and the Turner diaries. Adam. Often the most directly Siege
inspired extremist group is nihilistic, often suicidally, though their name
is the German word for atomic weapons, because their whole
deal is trying to bring about in eagerly awaiting the
destruction of all society. And they have these weird ties
now between like all these left and right wing, like
(28:02):
eco terrorist groups and like eco fascist groups, and like
these leftist groups that started us was like anarchists, like
individuals tending towards the wild, are starting to share more
neo Nazi propaganda. It's weird because they're all kind of
not the exact same goal, but they're kind of all
want to fucking kill everything, and and that's what Siege
is the book for Turner Diaries is the book for
(28:22):
people who are not nihilists. They want to build something.
They want to build something by destroying something. I want
to build something. Siege is the book of like bucket.
And I think that the reason the Turner Diaries killed
more people up until now is that now is the
time of fuckett, right right. We were yeah, like all
these stories you were telling were like, oh, yeah, nineties,
like there's a different yeah, kind of attitude about it.
(28:44):
And yeah, we were all even even the Nazi terrorists
were more optimistic. We could build something something together. Now
it's burn it all down. It's burn it all down.
The Turner Diaries was able to radicalize a guy like
Timothy McVeigh because at its core the book is not nihilistic.
The Diaries are good at inspiring want to be revolutionaries
to carry out violent actions. Siege is more suited to
(29:06):
the kind of suicidal extremists that groups like Isis also
seek to radicalize, and by the way, Adam often loves them.
Some Isis to share a lot of ices videos. Yeah,
it's basically tailor made propaganda for the kind of twenty
something young men who become mass shooters. I will talk
much more about Siege in the book I'm shamelessly plug
(29:28):
completely related to this exact topic. But let's get back
to Rockwell. Rockwell, George Lincoln did not come up with
the ideas of leaderless resistance or lone wolf terrorism himself.
Good for him. He did not write the Turner Diaries
or Siege, but he directly inspired and radicalized the men
who did. If you scratch any ideological precept of modern fascism,
you eventually wind up back at George Lincoln. Rockwell. For example,
(29:52):
you all know about eight, of course, and the significance
of those numbers of Nazis. It's basically for the listeners
who may not know. It's a way to to covert
way for Nazis to signal their Nazism without directly putting
a swastika on their clothing her body. Eight stands for
Heil Hitler because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet,
and the fourteen words are as follows. We must secure
(30:12):
the existence of our people in a future for white children.
That phrase was first written by David Lane, a member
of Robert Matthew's criminal gang The Order. Well he was
in prison, Lane also wrote a three page tract called
White Genocide Manifesto. According to the Atlantic, it argued, quote
racial integration is only an euphemism for genocide, and that
(30:33):
the white races on the averge of extinction due to
interbreeding with other races. Stupid idiots, losers and stupid dogshit
ideas about everything. Oh my god, it's a conspiracy to
get rid of It's not like the natural thing that
(30:53):
humans do. Yeah, it's all fear based. It's it's saying
like I don't want to be treated like I treat people.
It's the same feel like I'm going to get over
run and I'm not going to have my power, and
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, afraid of fraid. The next time
you hear white genocide out of the mouth of somebody
trying to claim that they're like a relatively reasonable person,
remind them. The phrase was invented by a bank robber
(31:17):
who got in prison for bank robbery because he joined
a group that was inspired by a bad science. I
will say that if someone's talking about white genocide positively.
They probably don't care. So yeah, bank robbing Nazis, congratulations
on your great idea, but stupid, stupid. There's like a
(31:38):
Holocaust historian who was talking about this and like the
like fascist of today and how like it's just like
when you talk about globalism, it's like it's like a
conspiracy to control everybody as opposed to like, well know,
like we're all connected more and like you have the
Internet and you have all these sort of ways that
we can comes from the natural progression of like a
species on a planet. Yeah, I look so forward to
(32:00):
less white faces as people like we're gonna be so
much more attractive and you have better immune basics of
diversity and evolution. It's it's these people. I M. So,
if you've ever heard the phrase white genocide or seeing
a eight tattoo, you can thank at least half of
that for David Lane. And Lane, of course was directly
(32:23):
inspired by William Luther Pierce, who was radicalized and molded
by George Lincoln Rockwell, there he is again. It always
comes back like a John Jacob Jinkle Harmer Schmidt for Nazis.
But with Nazis, you know, it's not for Nazis the
wonderful products and services of the show and her program
Sophie's checking her phone out, So I think I can
(32:44):
get away with that one and products We're bad. Yeah,
he's happy to be here. Yeah, y'all heard of Matthew Heimbach. No,
he's the founder of the now defunct Traditionalist Worker Party
(33:06):
and one of the forces behind the first deadly Unite
the Right rally. Uh. He was a lot more prominent
in the ault right until after the Unite the Right rally.
And like in two seventeen he or two than eighteen
here he got caught sleeping with the wife of his spokesman,
a guy named Matthew Harry oh Man and the nicknames
some people came up with for for that whole event
(33:28):
which led to the destruction of the t w P.
It's beautiful, the Night of Wrong Wives. Oh that's so good,
so good, well clever, you get really smart, really really
good joke. I don't know who made it. Might have
been a Nazi. Still a good joke, Still a really
(33:49):
good joke. Now, Matthew Heimbach was for a while the
most or one of the most notorious white supremacists in
the country. He gained notoriety early on in the mid
odds as the young, media savvy face of white nationalism.
One of his innovations in terms of presenting fascism to
Americans was to focus on racial separatism instead of white supremacy.
(34:09):
Heimbach went out of his way to say that whites
are not inherently superior. Richard Spencer preached a broadly similar
gospel at least two reporters. Rockwell was more openly racist
and fascist than either of those men, but he pioneered
the use of the tactic they both used. We can
see the seeds of the strategy and his support for
the Nation of Islam and black nationalism. Rockwell total reporter
at the time that his only disagreement with the Nation
(34:31):
of Islam was quote, they want a chunk of America,
and I prefer that they go to Africa. Heimbach basically
refined that too, I think they should stay in predominantly
black areas like Detroit and rural America should stay white.
In a very real way, Rockwell represents a bridge between
the original Nazis Hitler and Crew and modern neo Nazis
and fascists in America. I've spent quite a lot of
(34:53):
time reading through Unicorn riots, archives of fascist discord conversations
mostly from members of the groups that planned the first
deadly Unite the Right rally. These people talk about Rockwell
or g l R pretty regularly. Here's one quote. Today
is the birthday of Commander George Lincoln Rockwell. Honor this
man by cooking a steak, celebrating national socialism, pride and
being white and calling your neighbor and in word here
(35:14):
I have linked the playlist to a series of videos
about George Lincoln Rockwell that you can play throughout the day. Personally,
I'm having a cookout with some edgy friends and I'm
going to be blasting this ship that is so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Cody might die. Oh we have barbeque and play the
(35:42):
words of a Nazi has been dead for sixty years. Edgy,
all right, I think have fun and always remember and
he quotes from Rockwell here, life is a struggle even
to stand up, as a struggle against the law of gravity.
And I think that the joy of life the struggle itself,
(36:03):
not the victory, because if it were, we'd all lose.
We're all going to croak, we all lose the battle
of life. So if you can't find some fun in
the fight to live and live to the fullest, then
you're a failure already before you even start live life
for the fullest. Have some have some fun while you
are making racist banners to troll Martin Luther King's junior
(36:24):
with friends having fun? What's the point which your edgy
friends like the guy and the girla and the dude
who shoots you in a couple of years. Yeah, real,
real edgy, like a bunch of edge lords just killing
each other. And oh god, you had to explicitly say
like me and we're like edgy. I love it. I
(36:46):
also love that. Like there's the whole Like, I just
think that they should stay where they are. We stay,
we're in a superior that's literally Hitler quote uh of
him saying like, no, I don't think we're superior. I
think like Chinese people stay in China. You say, were
you Japanese people? Hey? The Axis was a multi racial empire.
You see, you see, you see it included all the races, Germans, Italians,
(37:11):
Japanese people. That's the whole spectrum. I edgy, Japanese friends,
Italian friends, one group of Indian soldiers Yep, there you go,
Indish legion. They were just they hated Britain. Hitler wasn't racist.
Confirmed that that is actually how that's been turned into.
Yeah yeah, oh, I also hate the Internet. Door Countercurrents
(37:35):
dot com, a Nazi website for fucking Nazis, commissioned an
article on Rockwell in honor of his birthday, written by
Gregory Hood, author of a book called Rockwell Was Right.
So Gregory hood analysis is interesting to me. Quote Rockwell's
national socialism was not an ideology so much as a tactic,
an attempt to build a fighting conservatism capable of defeating
(37:56):
the militant left. Rather than Nietzsche, Baron Evola, or even
Alfred Rosenberg, the greatest influences on George Lincoln Rockwell where
Senator Joe McCarthy, Douglas MacArthur, and even William F. Buckley.
His inability to rally the American right marks a milestone
and white political activism, as George Lincoln Rockwell is the
bridge between patriotic racial conservatism and revolutionary white nationalism. Not wrong,
(38:20):
not wrong, not relevant. Uh, didn't make you think of
a lot of stuff today. Just just a random quote
for a random Nazi website. This is why a guy
like Rockwell can influence both explicit neo Nazi terrorists and
much more moderate, less murderous groups like the Proud Boys.
(38:40):
If you spend any time hanging out with the Proud Boys,
or watching Patriot prayer rallies, or watching videos posted by
either of these groups, members of them will regularly and
proudly describe themselves as anti communist. If you go any
to any of these bloody rallies as I have, you
will see anti communist action shirts and you will hear
the phrase anti communist or ant de calm bandied about constantly.
(39:02):
In June of nineteen sixty, George Rockwell went to court
to defend his application to march at Union Square in
New York City. There were huge protests of his presence,
some of which disrupted the court proceedings. A recess was
called and Rockwell took the opportunity to go out and
speak to some of the waiting TV cameras. According to
the book for Race and Nation, Quote, Rockwell told television
(39:25):
reporters that the A and P was growing every minute,
but that his goals had been misrepresented by newspapers. Contrary
to newspaper reports. We are not trying to exterminate anybody,
but we are trying to eliminate communism. We want to
shock the American people into the awareness of the extreme
danger of what is going on. After that, he said
he only wanted to gas traders, which he expected would
(39:46):
encompass no more than eight percent of the Jewish population. Sorry,
I don't want to exterminate anybody, but the population. Communism
is the same thing as Judaism, is the same thing
as any like any art, Leftism, liberalism onto something that's
(40:09):
a sticking point with people that they're afraid of, they
don't understand, and then like milk and that unite the
right to defeat authoritarian left exactly exactly now. When Rockwell
said there's the line about gassing eighty percent of Jewish
people in America, this caused many in the crowd to
shout at him. One person tried to attack him, but
was held back. The reporter asked Rockwell how he responded
(40:31):
to such rage. Rockwell replied, quote, I'm used to it.
They never makes such a fuss over communist speaking. It's
only when someone is an anti communist. No, no, no, no,
there's more to it in life George Lincoln Rockwell was
never able to unite the right, but in death his
ideas have gone on to have influence at every level
(40:53):
of the radical right wing ecosystem. I would like to
close by quoting a paper from the University of Glasgow,
the Leaderless Resistance, George Lincoln Rockwell and the White Separatist
Movement quote. The advantage of history and political context allows
an accurate appraisal of Rockwell and American Nazism. Rockwell as
a phenomenon has never been equaled in the American far right.
(41:14):
With his panash charisma, ability to manipulate situations and gain
media exposure, Rockwell had little in common with many of
his followers, who are attracted to the Nazi philosophy he advocated.
Prior to Rockwell, the extreme right was an exclusive resort
devoted of Catholics and non Aryan whites. It was Rockwell
who ended that exclusivity. I care not what religion, club, area,
or class you come from, nor what bit of colored
(41:35):
cloth you wave as a flag. We are all under
deadly attack. Gel l r JE cheer for that guy.
That's U. I mean, every single time we're on this show. Yeah,
(41:56):
it's hard to say yeah, and they not. Like a
lot of these groups acknowledge him, and and he's very
regularly talked at. He shows up all the time. If
you go to Unicorn Riots database of discord leaks of
all these different groups from Identity Europa, the t w P,
(42:18):
it comes up constantly. Sure they love him, and he's
he's you know, there's a great book called Everything You
Love Will Burn, which is about it was about a
guy who's like for like two eleven on two sixteen,
he was just hanging out with these guys like Matthew
Heinbach in different fascist right wing guys and like decided
during the election, I gotta write a book about like
(42:39):
I'm gonna I'm gonna do this thing. And Rockwell comes
up in that like he's a lot of other people
have made this connection. He is the I mean and
and and you know, even when it's indirectly with Siege
and the Turner Diaries, He's still the guy who was
talking to the fucking author of Siege when that dude
was fucking fourteen years old. He's the guy who gave
William Pierce his first newsletter and you know started him
(42:59):
on the path writing the Turner Diaries. He is patient
zero of the fucking plague that killed eleven people in
the Tree of Life Synagogue, that led Christopher hass In
to plan a massacre, and it's going to be behind
the masker that may have happened by the time this
episode drops. So g l R lose fucker. Well know,
(43:25):
I was going I was going for it looks like
an R. We've been at this for a while. Lose,
get lost something one pump, get lost Rockwell, I don't know,
get lost Rockwell. There you know that is good? U. Yeah,
thank you. I liked his reaction. Robert's reaction was much
better than you. I'm still upset at my failure. I know. Wow.
(43:50):
I mean my brain feels a little mushy from all
of that, but also um horrified, muscified, mucified. Um. I
choose to not learn anything from this though. Yeah, this
is the right decision. All this history sort of seems relevant.
But I'm going to push out of my mind. I'm
not sure. It'll probably be fine. I think it'll be fine,
(44:13):
Probably be fine. Histories for lostens. Trying to find a quote.
My favorite quote about history is those who h learned
from history shouldn't say anything because it's not important. This
is what Lindsay from You're the Worst says about history. Okay,
whatever history you happened, already, let it go, oh twenty
(44:41):
one century right there? If you care about history. And
they're worried about all this stuff. I have an audio bookcase.
There's a lot more that I had to leave out
because I wrote thus words about George Lincoln Rockwell, there's
a whole lot more Christian identity, talking more about siege
in the Turner Diaries, and a bunch of the stuff
that we did not get to that explains Dylan Roof
(45:04):
and all these other fucking mass murderers. Uh. The audio
book that I'm working on is called The War on Everyone.
You can go to go fund me, look up the
War on Everyone. Donate. I'll make that audio book and
then I'll use the money to go stare at these
people at rallies and ask them difficult questions, and then
I'll do stuff into yet everybody's life. I really feel
(45:29):
like the Democrats are gonna get it together. Oh interesting, Interesting,
that seems historically like what they'll do. Everyone will get
behind one candidate and they'll they'll do a great job
of campaigning, the news media won't breathlessly cover the lies
that the president says about that manna uh, there will
be no more fighting in the streets. Um. And then
(45:49):
we will elect an actual being of light who descends
from the sky and it's just the reincarnated soul of Mr.
Rogers who will who will lead us into a future
of national healthcare and moderate environmental activism so that we
can stop the nightmare. Yeah. Interesting, I have to say
(46:13):
confidently that you think that Democrats will get it together.
My heart um lifted a little bit. And then you
kept talking. I mean they might know. I think what
you're saying. I mean, I'll say this in two thousand
and eight, when like before, Barack Obama was like the candidate.
(46:34):
I was looking at him and Hillary duking it out,
and I was like, Oh, the Democrats are gonna suck
it up, and after eight years of George W. Bush,
we're gonna get fucking this this mess. And then the
best political candidate of my lifetime are best at least
political campaign of my lifetime? Maybe yeah, Well then we
don't know. Everything starts so soon. Now it's March, the
(46:58):
year before this March, and by my account, a hundred
and forty six million people are running for president. Sheared
Brown just said he's not running anymore. Oh good, yeah, good,
I support I do like him. I mean I don't
like this qualities. I like he seems like an affable
man that I enjoyed dinner with. I wasn't going to
(47:19):
vote for him. Yeah, anyhow, we need more coffee billionaires. Yeah,
ah man, that coffee billionaire. Because if there's one thing
I don't have a joke, cream cream. I think we've
come up with the slogan that's gonna win into no matter,
(47:42):
no matter who is. I know, I'm imagining Cody. Picture
this in your mind's eye. Half a million people crowding
the streets of Washington, d c. Flooding the National Wall,
their hands on placard, shouting at the White House, and
one voice as one people, one pump, one cream. Oh yeah,
(48:07):
it's one pump, one cream, one cream. One Yeah. I
see that act, see that very vividly. It's it's beautiful.
I see the like a phoenix America above the powder,
the powdered cream ashes, the ted cruise. Colm, Oh, how
(48:28):
did we get here? Why? It's three hours of this?
You guys want to plug your plug doubles before we
start saying something crazy more than anything. Yeah, you know Internet, Yeah,
we do weekly uh youtubeast podcast called even more News. Um.
We do a weekly YouTube show called some More News,
(48:49):
um Google that you can supported via Patreon dot com
slash some more News. That's good job. We should just
like designate one of us to do this each opiod episode.
I like sales hierarchy as a cancer. Do it this
way Internet, Katie Stoll Katie's com Dr Mr Cody on Twitter. Also,
(49:14):
I'm Robert Evans, Am I right okay? On Twitter. You
can find this podcast behind the Bastards dot com. You
can find t shirts if you want a T shirt,
I'm sure we'll have a one. Can we get it
in the tank? Of course. We can get into tanks
out a stickers put them on everything, one like a
Rosie the riveter on there. Not her exactly, but you
(49:37):
can find all the sources for this in our website
behind the Bastards dot com. I'm Robert Evans. Until next time,
for the love of God, if you remember nothing else,
remember one pump one clean eight two
Hmm. What. I don't have an intro my audience because
we are like two hours and change into talking about
George Lincoln Rockwell, and I am I'm just broken. There's
only I have to fix myself somehow. I have to.
I have to get myself back in the fight. I
(00:21):
think this cathartic release of pent up information and frustration
will be good. You know what else might be good.
You know it might get me back on track. So
we could do this last part. Oh and I picked
it particularly. My mouth just started flavor is cut your
tongue up? Alright, alright, alright, mm hmm beautiful. I could
(00:45):
taste them now. I'm jealous. You can have a derrito
as many as you one cream. There are so many.
You have to listen to the last one to knowles
be okay, but you should be listening to three with that.
Don't listen to part three if you're oh, Katie, that
was a perfect crunch. I do apologize to uh, to
(01:06):
Molly and my other listeners who hate the sound of
crunching derritos. The person who's like, I don't like when
you crush she's great, yeah, but yeah, she doesn't like
the sound of crushing doritos. All right, We're done with
the crunching of derritos. If you want to crunch one cream, yeah,
rhymes better m hmm. I do keep singing out in
my head different tunes, but I'm not going to do
(01:27):
that to you guys. One crunch one cream. You cut
that crunch and cream in the night. So I kid
so I can't. IM so sorry. I brought this on tremendously. Sorry,
(01:49):
this this is terrible. It's still this cream, which needs
to be refrigerated, is still off the table. It's it's
still it was behind the sink like it was soap.
So I do wash my hands with hazelnut cream. All right,
it's today's episode of Behind the Bat, which I did
(02:10):
not even introduced, but right now you know where you are.
This is a podcast where we talk about terrible people,
and we're talking about one of the worst that there's
ever been, the the fucking J R. R. Tolking of Racism,
the What's another foundational the Bill Gates also racism, the
(02:33):
Steve Jobs of American Fashion, George Lincoln Rockwell. Now, in
episode one and two, we talked about Rockwell's life is stunning.
Variety of innovations which we're not at the bottom of
yet to be at the bottom, which you really want
(02:55):
to be at the bottom. And of course we talked
about his death where he was murdered by one of
his allowers who went on to become not a Nazi,
and his um classically handsome bones structure and his classes great,
we're not we don't hate his bones trap taller than Hitler.
Hitler too, which is which is important for America. It
(03:17):
would be amazing if that's the one that if you
transplanted Hitler in America, the only reason he did wouldn't
take off the guys. I mean, it's the thing. The
Germans are just not shallow enough so we can embrace
a short fascists like embracing that slogan vote for me
taller than today. We're talking about Rockwell's legacy. In addition
(03:46):
to obviously the legacy of trolling college campuses for the
nation's Holocaust denial and the Nazism, We're talking about a
much more complex and bloody legacy, all of that legacy
that ties in literally every act of far right violent
terror you have heard about in your entire lives. From
g l R in the early nineteen eighties, a far
(04:07):
right radical named Robert J. Matthews created what he called
an action group. Its original name was The Organization, but
eventually he settled on calling it the Order. He recruited
a small squad of other Oh just wait, it's even
losery then you understand right now? He recruited a small
squad of other like minded men. The Order was a fascist,
white supremacist terror group. Its goal was to destabilize the
(04:30):
fabric of American society through violent attacks. The Order funded
its operations by robbing banks and armored cars. They carried
out three murders, including the highly publicized assassination of Jewish
American radio host Alan Berg in nineteen four. The Order
was eventually infiltrated and wiped out by the FBI. Matthews
died fighting after a thirty six hour long standoff. Well,
(04:50):
they did not succeed in destroying the fabric of American society.
The Order did steal millions of dollars, at least a
million of which was never recovered by the authorities, and
probably went on to finance their fascist terror. Thirteen white
supremacist leaders were prosecuted for taking Matthew's money, so it's
anyone's guess as to how many other violent racists he funded.
They committed like twenty something robberies that were successful. Robert
(05:12):
met J. Matthews, never met George Lincoln Rockwell, but the
Commander had a strong impact on his life. Nonetheless, this
was thanks to a book, The Turner Diaries, written by
William Luther Pierce. Pierce had started life in nineteen thirty
three as a quiet, kind of geeky kid. He later
described himself as sort of a nerdy kid without social skills.
(05:32):
He was awkward around girls and obsessed with science fiction.
When he grew up, he became a pretty good physicist.
Pierce became aware of Rockwell in nineteen sixty three when
he saw the Commander on TV addressing a crowd of protesters.
According to one of Pierce's co workers, who was interviewed
later by the FBI, quote, he was looking for a
simple solution to the problems of the world that he
(05:54):
doesn't provided that simple solutions to complex problems. Just blame
it all on the people with three still things are
on their names. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a report,
the Turner Legacy, published by the International Center for Counter Terrorism.
Here's how it summarizes the path of Pierce's radicalization. Quote.
You can do nothing until you've reached the masses, Rockwell
(06:16):
explained in an interview. In order to reach them, without money,
without status, without a public platform, you have to become
a dramatic figure. Intrigued, Pierce wrote a letter to Rockwell,
and they struck up a correspondence. In nineteen sixty five,
Pierce moved from academia to work with a defense contractor
in Connecticut, and he began driving on weekends to the Washington,
d c. Area, where Rockwell was based. He also spent
time at the Yale University Library reading alarmist books about
(06:38):
racial trends, many dating back to the nineteen twenties and thirties.
As his relationship with Rockwell was blooming, Pierce was granted
a secret government clearance through his job. Although he never
worked on a classified project, he rarely displayed his racism
to co workers. When the FBI opened an investigation of
Rockwell's American Nazi Party agents spoke to his former colleagues.
Many found him distant and impenetrable and expressed their intent
(07:00):
dislike of him as a person. Nevertheless, they conceded he
was a first class physicist. Science It's just science. It's
just science, science, race science. In nineteen sixty six, Pierce
was responsible for launching National Socialist World, a quarterly journal
of all things Nazi. The n SW eventually attracted more
than a thousand subscribers. It was one of Rockwell's a
(07:22):
and P's few profitable endeavors. After Rockwell's assassination, Pierce went
on to found a group called the National Alliance, but
his true love was writing unspeakably racist fiction. In nineteen
seventy eight, he published his opus, The Turner Diaries. Pierce
imagined a near future world in nineteen ninety one when
a new American government called the System enforced racial integration.
(07:44):
Since Pierce was a Nazi, he imagined the System as
run by Jewish people with black people as their enforcers.
The System in The Turner Diaries is portrayed as the
ultimate far right fantasy of a far left government, tax
breaks for mixed race couples, their appeal of rape laws
because they're seen as a front to race and gender equality,
and of course, gun confiscation. The book is written as
(08:05):
a series of diary entries from a man Earl Turner
who joins a terrorist group called the Order and takes
part in a violent revolution to conquer the United States
for white people. The Order funded itself through bank and
armored car robberies. They assassinated left wing and Jewish politicians
and media personalities, and bombed government buildings. This eventually sparked
a gigantic race war, leading to a global genocide of
(08:28):
all non white people's and the establishment of a coccasoid utopia.
This was the happy ending of them. Yeah, that's the
happy ending the book. It's not explicitly Nazi through most
of it, but at the end they refer to something
happening as being a hundred and thirty years after the
birth of the Great One, which of course at all Hitler. Yeah,
he's a nerd like self, admitted, a sci fi nerd
(08:50):
who was bad with women, who went on to write
racist science fiction. Ye be a Nazi nerd. Yeah, that
keeps happening despite its terrible guy. It's a nice guy.
Girls don't like me. Physics. Nothing's wrong with physics, despite
its terrible plot, absurd racism, and clunky style. The Turner
(09:11):
Diaries include some pretty apt observances about the nature of
terrorism in one passage. Turner notes that the system furthers
its own destruction by reacting to the Order's terrorism by
instituting emergency powers and clamping down on individual liberties. Turner
also discusses the idea of propaganda of the Deed, which
started with anarchists, and like the eighteen hundreds and his wife,
(09:32):
President McKinley did not finish his term. The organization prioritize
it to tacks that do economic damage, like bank robbery,
because those things make middle class white people the most
frightened and uncomfortable. Quote. What is really precious to the
average American is not his freedom, or his honor, or
the future of his race, but his paycheck. He complained
when the system began bussing his kids to black schools
(09:54):
twenty years ago, but he was allowed to keep his
station wagon and his fiberglass speedboat, so he didn't fight
m Not surprisingly, the Turner Diaries was Robert Matthews's favorite book.
It directly inspired the creation of his own the Order.
The Turner Diaries was required reading among the terrorists Matthew recruited,
according to the Turner legacy quote, and he recruited a
(10:16):
former klansman Thomas Martinez into the group. He did so
by handing over a copy of Turner, one of the
scores that he kept in storage. Members of the group
referred to the book as their Bible. Tom In There
Is What the Future Will Be, Matthews told Martinez, you
must read it, you must, But it doesn't go much
further than that. We're done, right, We're done. That's it.
(10:39):
Your your your twitters and lovables. Yeah, let's read the
next paragraphs. Sither anything else. During his time the A
and P, Pierce had come to believe that the showy
displays of white nationalism, the swastikas and clan robes then InVogue,
alienated what he called normal people. Near the end of
his life, Rockwell had been making the exact same moves,
engaging in a process of denocification to try and appeal
(10:59):
to more mainstream white people they might call them trying
to red pill them about white power. Obviously, the Turner
Diaries did not have that much more mainstream appeal than
Rockwell's A and P, but it did succeed in appealing
to a broader base of radicals than say, Stormtrooper magazine.
One of those radicals was a young man named Timothy McVeigh.
(11:22):
The Turner Diaries was Timothy mcveigh's very favorite book. Now,
McVeigh was not an ideological racist first and foremost. He
definitely ran with and was associated with some racist groups,
but he was more of an anti government, pro gun
nut than like a specific Nazi nut or anything like that. Uh.
And he was of course a lone wolf um. But
(11:43):
he did hate the government. He viewed it as a
nightmarish monster bent on stamping out all human liberty, and
he saw the Turner Diaries as an entertaining blueprint for
how that monster might be killed. The structure of mcveigh's
attack on the Murray Building in Oklahoma City was directly
inspired by a passage from the Turner Diaries. At one point,
Earl Cell bombs the FBI headquarters, which is of course
(12:03):
the first place that tim McVeigh thought about bombing before
he decided the Murra Building would be easier. Pierce goes
into exhausted detail about the bomb that they used to
blow up the FBI building, a truck bomb made with
forty four hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate, essentially the same
advice the device McVeigh constructed. And used to destroy the
Murra building. On the day McVeigh detonated his bomb, killing
(12:24):
a hundred and sixty eight people, he put together a
manifesto in an envelope in his car and included many
photo copied pages of the Turner Diaries. McVeigh had highlighted
one passage in particular from a chunk of the book,
where Earl Turners cell carries out a mortar attack on
Washington d C. Quote. The real value of our attacks
today lies in the psychological impact, not in the immediate casualties.
(12:48):
More important, though, is what we taught the politicians in
the bureaucrats. They learned this afternoon that not one of
them is beyond our reach. They can huddle behind barbed
wire and tanks in the city, and they can hide
behind the concrete walls of their country estates, but we
can still find them and kill them. That's what McVeigh
highlighted after blowing up the Oklahoma City bombing, which included
a daycarefull of babies. Weird way to read that line,
(13:11):
but you are just like we all have different reactions
to art. That's a gracious interpretation. A year before mcveagh's attack,
the Aryan Republican Army carried out a series of bank
(13:32):
robberies inspired by both Matthews Really Order and The Order
from Pierce's book. Some of those people were later linked
to the Oklahoma City bombing. The a r A put
out a two hour video statement at one point that
urged people to read the Turner Diaries. They also stand
hard for Christian identity, which is an incredibly important ideological
movement that's also tied into all of this. And then
we'll get into more in the audio book that I'm
(13:54):
putting together. We'll talk about that something. Get the End
to Um. The Arian Republican Army carried out twenty two
operas in seven states before the FBI took them down.
They were succeeded by another terrorist group, the Aryan People's Republic,
who carried out a murder, bombing, and robbery campaign in
nineteen seven that killed five and ended in a massive
police shootout. Both groups were of course, directly inspired by
(14:14):
the Turner Diaries. On April twelfth, nineteen ninety seven, Larry
Wayne Schumach of Jackson, Mississippi, shot eleven black people, killing one.
When interviewed later, his friends and family all said he'd
undergone a sudden shift towards violent radicalism after reading the
Turner Diaries. Might be one there, you might be reading
(14:35):
into things a little bit. Yeah, you're sounding like a
conspiracy theorist. I'm just acknowledging a pattern. Three white dudes
and jasper Texas chained a black man to the back
of their pickup truck and dragged him down the road
horrifically torturing and killing him. One of the men gave
this statement to the police, we're starting the Turner Diaries early.
(14:56):
That is technically incorrect because the nine one, but you know,
racist and we're finally starting finally. That would that would
have been the right way for this murder. Technically, that
would have been one of the cops who read the
Turners in. David Copeland, a British man, set off several
(15:20):
shrapnel bombs in London. His targets were black and gay people.
He killed three and injured a hundred and forty and
his confession to the police, Copeland said, if you've read
the Turner Diaries, you know in the year two thousand
there will be the uprising and all that racial violence
on the streets. My aim was political. It was to
cause a racial war in this country your two thousand.
The list goes on and on, and on and on.
(15:43):
There have been fatal attacks in Germany, Ukraine, and many,
many more attacks in the United States by people who
claim the Turner Diaries as their direct inspiration. As of
two thousand sixteen, the book has been tied to more
than two murders and dozens upon dozens of separate attacks
and foiled attacks. Christopher Hassan, the Coast Guard lieutenant who
was cott in two thousand nineteen before he would carry
out his plan massacre, was a huge fan of the
(16:05):
Turner Diaries. William Pierce died in two thousand two of
being an old ass piece of ship. Before he died, though,
he gave interviews to a biographer and those he was
questioned about some of the attacks his book had inspired.
When he was asked about Robert Matthews, founder of the Order,
he said, this Bob was a very intense young man
and quite different from the weaklings I see so many
of in America today. Bob was obviously very much taken
(16:27):
with the Turner Diaries, and it was clear he drew
a lot of the elements from the book and the
way he did things, and the term terminology he used,
and so on and so forth and so forth. That's
not it. The Turner legacy went on to note, quote
Pierce eulogized Matthews repeatedly in interviews and on shortwave broadcast
of his National Alliances radio program with McVeigh, the calculus
was more complicated, the backlash more severe. Pierce took pains
(16:48):
to say that he had never met McVeigh and there
is no direct evidence to say otherwise. Although mcveigh's telephone
records presented in court showed that he made efforts to
contact the National Alliance prior to the bombing, Pierce was
defensive about whether and how specifically McVeigh his actions could
said to be have been inspired by the book, despite
a mountain of evidence pointing towards its relevance. Waco was
the inspiration for Oklahoma City, Pierce argue, not his book.
(17:09):
They both were Yeah, yeah, I've read your book, man,
But yeah, did he use the same bomb that you
described in Loving to Tell? You did say he had
the highlighted pages in his manifesto after the bombing. I
don't know. That seems like a pretty seems like a
big face that they were tied. Well, maybe the Blayton
racist isn't great on understanding evidence. Well, that seems weird.
(17:36):
We could talk about William Pierce in the Turner Diaries
all day. You'll get more on that in the audiobook
thing that I'm shamelessly plugging, still shamelessly. But this episode
is above all else about George Lincoln Rockwell's intellectual legacy,
and that legacy is a lot bigger than the trail
of blood Bill Pierce left behind. James Nolan Mason was
born in nineteen fifty two. He grew up in Chillakothe, Ohio,
(17:58):
and like William Pierce, he saw lurid news coverage of
Rockwell's rallies and speeches. Mason became enthralled with the American Fewer.
At age fourteen, he started sending him letters. Rockwell wrote back,
and Mason became a member of the A and P
Youth Organization when he turned eighteen, who was inducted as
a full Stormtrooper. After Rockwell died, Mason moved on to
the National Socialist Liberation Front and eventually formed a group
(18:20):
called the Universal Order. In the nineteen eighties, he started
writing a series of papers for a neo Nazi newsletter Siege.
In those articles, he advocated for what he called leaderless resistance,
autonomous terrorist action by individuals and small groups rather than coordinated,
large scale movements because the FBI kept infiltrating those. Yeah. Yeah,
(18:43):
speaking of which, on the subject of FBI infiltrading people,
you guys remember Trooper Oak. Yeah, previously Pine Broochude or
something that he was actually like a college student researching
file and extremism who went undercover in the group to
like write about them and stuff. Yeah, they got infiltrated
a number of times. Good stuff, man, because birches towards
(19:13):
it's all making sense. We guess Tree, you're an Oak
and a cop apparently, well it's counting violent extremism researcher. Yeah, good,
thanks Trooper Oak. Yeah, thank you, Thank you. Mr Burcharde.
(19:35):
Not not the ads, no, but you might be able
to buy one. Oh yeah, I don't know what these
ads are for. Maybe they're an ad for ads. Maybe
their ads for ads. Let's hear them. We're back. Yeah,
(19:56):
we were having a fun little break chat about all
the kids in cages. Not cages, you're right, areas areas
that are caged for safety, for safety, safety boxes. Safety
wouldn't use the word cage for kids. Crib cute metal crib,
(20:21):
acute little metal crib. We put them in nurseries with bars,
with bars, bar nurseries. All right, let's go. Let's get
back to talking about James Nolan Mason. So uh, Mason
started writing for after Rockwell died and he left, started
writing for a newsletter called Siege, and you know, advocated
(20:41):
for leaderless resistance and stuff like that. Many of his
writings were collected into a book, also called Siege. Here
is a quote from that book, The lone wolf cannot
be detected, cannot be prevented, and seldom can be traced.
If I were asked by anyone of my opinion on
what to look for or hope for next, I would
tell them a wave of killings or assassinations of system
(21:02):
bureaucrats by rovan gunmen who have their strategy well mapped
out in advance and well nigh impossible to stop. I
should note here that Chris Hassen's planned shooting spree of
you could call them bureaucrats, elected political officials and journalists
and the like. Uh people know it was stopped. I
think a lot of people think it was stopped because
the FBI was out looking for white nationalists, you know,
(21:25):
terrorists infiltrating these organizations. As they said, he was caught
because he was buying tramadal in his work computer. He
was illegally buying pain killers. And that's the only reason
I caught. I found out about the massacre by accident. Yeah,
that was an accident. That was a totally, totally, just
a happy accident. They were just busting him for drugs.
(21:46):
I feel safe. I feel safe. It's a real problem.
There were a lot of d s A people on
his kill list. Some people are saying, if you're in
the d s A, maybe arm yourself. I'm not saying
arm yourself. I'm saying that the police aren't really good
at catching the Nazis who want to kill you in
their old organizations, who like actively has have said in many,
(22:09):
many years that they're going to try to infiltrate law
enforcement organizations in the military for these purposes. I'll say
self defense is important for anyone, especially the politically active,
and there's a variety of pathways to self defense. So
consider how you plan to defend yourself consider consider we
love sometimes sometimes that works with my feet and my fists. Wow,
(22:33):
maybe body armor protection, a little bit of body armor
mutual aid in case I go yeah, magic magic Harry
Potter would be really useful, right like like if like
like a grand like a wizard like well no, no, no,
(22:56):
far too far to not use the words right, yeah,
well you used him that Maybe a warli maybe a
warlick like a great war, a great world, solid wizard whatever.
Still not clear why but I don't know why. But
(23:16):
just back on the subject of siege. On March one, two, eighteen,
Adam Often burst onto the American consciousness with the murder
of Blaze Bernstein, a student at the University of Pennsylvania.
Bernstein's murder was tied to a member of the group
Adam Often because Blaze was homosexual and Jewish and basically
the distillation of everything Nazis. Hey. British journalist Jake Hanrahan
did a lot of that reporting. By the way, He's
(23:38):
got a podcast, Popular Front that's really worth checking out.
He's a great guy anyway. Adam Often is a multinational
terrorist group that sprang up like mushrooms on the damp
bathroom floor of the Internet. There are somewhere around twenty cells,
perhaps more, perhaps less, mostly small groups all around the
United States and in Germany. Five deaths of so far
been tied to Adam Often. One other thing Adam Often
(23:58):
did was republished James Mason's Siege, a book they basically
consider their bible. Now. Siege has not yet inspired as
much direct violence as the Turner Diaries. That would be
hard to do. It was sort of rediscovered pretty recently,
starting on the old neo Nazi forum Iron March. Over
the last several years, a whole online subculture has spread
(24:18):
out around the book. If you spend a lot of
time reading messages from members of the Bull Patrol, for example,
they bring up Siege all the time. You guys know
about the Bull Patrol. Don't you guys know about Dylan Roof. Yeah,
the guy who in two thousand fifteen walked into a
black Churt's in Charleston and murdered nine people. He had
a bowl haircut, and so there's people online who call
him Saint Ruths. They called themselves the Bull Patrol because
(24:42):
they too would really like to uh murder a bunch
of black people. God, and they love Siege. Big fans
of Siege. Quick question, almost publishing these books still, Adam
often Adams publishing them. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that
does make sense. Um so, yeah, the Bull Patrol and
Animal often both bring up Siege a lot. There's also
(25:03):
a YouTube channel I found called read Siege. They put
up dozens of videos that have racked up more than
thirty five thousand views, which is not a lot for
a YouTube channel, but it is a lot for homicidal
Nazi propaganda. Think about people that, well, probably just a
couple of just a couple of thousands shooters, Katie, how many?
That's not that many mashoots. There's a couple of thousand
(25:25):
fans of a mass shooter. It's in the and a
Mass Shooter book, and that's your book. Um. So the
Bull Patrol is specifically Dylan Roof. There's also that in
cell from like three or four years ago, Elliot Roger Rogers, Yeah, Rogers.
And they're all kind of gradually morphine like, like congealing
(25:47):
together into the same water ecosystem of people who are
probably going to shoot up a bunch of innocent people. Right,
here's my resentment, here's your resentment. What if we are
all resentful together and what if we all convince each
other that the Jews are a part of it, which
is increasingly affect Yeah. Yeah, weird how it always gets
back to Nazis, Like it is weird. You scratch any
(26:07):
of these groups of like psychotic kids who want to
murder a bunch of strangers, and you always keep keep
finding Natzis. Yeah, they fear the same thing and they
want the same thing. Yep. Weird, weird, weird. Although all
of this news makes it way easier for me to
understand stuff like you read about the Holocaust, It's like,
how do you find all those people willing to work
at those ohio of them? Okay, okay, gotcha and easily
(26:31):
moved across. You can do a lot of stuff with them.
There's a lot of maneuvering that can be done with
those kids of people. Yea cool, cool, cool. So the
read cs YouTube channel has titles in it like the
Lost White Civilization of China and a thirty seven minute
We're going Back and a thirty seven minute video titled
(26:54):
who were the Jews? Oh? I bet you, I bet
you find out that you fund out a lot. Many
of their videos are just readings from pages of Siege.
I would like to play a chunk from one of
those videos titled what can we dispense with? President? To
dogcatch or they are all the same bureaucratic sellout swine.
No distinctions are to be drawn, meaningless considerations of parties
(27:18):
of left and right, and even individual identities names, et cetera,
are simply not to be used. To kill an ism.
You have to kill the ISTSI anti Semitism, I have
to kill anti right. I bring this up because it
(27:40):
highlights an important difference between the mentalities nurtured by Siege
and the Turner diaries. Adam. Often the most directly Siege
inspired extremist group is nihilistic, often suicidally, though their name
is the German word for atomic weapons, because their whole
deal is trying to bring about in eagerly awaiting the
destruction of all society. And they have these weird ties
now between like all these left and right wing, like
(28:02):
eco terrorist groups and like eco fascist groups, and like
these leftist groups that started us was like anarchists, like
individuals tending towards the wild, are starting to share more
neo Nazi propaganda. It's weird because they're all kind of
not the exact same goal, but they're kind of all
want to fucking kill everything, and and that's what Siege
is the book for Turner Diaries is the book for
(28:22):
people who are not nihilists. They want to build something.
They want to build something by destroying something. I want
to build something. Siege is the book of like bucket.
And I think that the reason the Turner Diaries killed
more people up until now is that now is the
time of fuckett, right right. We were yeah, like all
these stories you were telling were like, oh, yeah, nineties,
like there's a different yeah, kind of attitude about it.
(28:44):
And yeah, we were all even even the Nazi terrorists
were more optimistic. We could build something something together. Now
it's burn it all down. It's burn it all down.
The Turner Diaries was able to radicalize a guy like
Timothy McVeigh because at its core the book is not nihilistic.
The Diaries are good at inspiring want to be revolutionaries
to carry out violent actions. Siege is more suited to
(29:06):
the kind of suicidal extremists that groups like Isis also
seek to radicalize, and by the way, Adam often loves them.
Some Isis to share a lot of ices videos. Yeah,
it's basically tailor made propaganda for the kind of twenty
something young men who become mass shooters. I will talk
much more about Siege in the book I'm shamelessly plug
(29:28):
completely related to this exact topic. But let's get back
to Rockwell. Rockwell, George Lincoln did not come up with
the ideas of leaderless resistance or lone wolf terrorism himself.
Good for him. He did not write the Turner Diaries
or Siege, but he directly inspired and radicalized the men
who did. If you scratch any ideological precept of modern fascism,
you eventually wind up back at George Lincoln. Rockwell. For example,
(29:52):
you all know about eight, of course, and the significance
of those numbers of Nazis. It's basically for the listeners
who may not know. It's a way to to covert
way for Nazis to signal their Nazism without directly putting
a swastika on their clothing her body. Eight stands for
Heil Hitler because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet,
and the fourteen words are as follows. We must secure
(30:12):
the existence of our people in a future for white children.
That phrase was first written by David Lane, a member
of Robert Matthew's criminal gang The Order. Well he was
in prison, Lane also wrote a three page tract called
White Genocide Manifesto. According to the Atlantic, it argued, quote
racial integration is only an euphemism for genocide, and that
(30:33):
the white races on the averge of extinction due to
interbreeding with other races. Stupid idiots, losers and stupid dogshit
ideas about everything. Oh my god, it's a conspiracy to
get rid of It's not like the natural thing that
(30:53):
humans do. Yeah, it's all fear based. It's it's saying
like I don't want to be treated like I treat people.
It's the same feel like I'm going to get over
run and I'm not going to have my power, and
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, afraid of fraid. The next time
you hear white genocide out of the mouth of somebody
trying to claim that they're like a relatively reasonable person,
remind them. The phrase was invented by a bank robber
(31:17):
who got in prison for bank robbery because he joined
a group that was inspired by a bad science. I
will say that if someone's talking about white genocide positively.
They probably don't care. So yeah, bank robbing Nazis, congratulations
on your great idea, but stupid, stupid. There's like a
(31:38):
Holocaust historian who was talking about this and like the
like fascist of today and how like it's just like
when you talk about globalism, it's like it's like a
conspiracy to control everybody as opposed to like, well know,
like we're all connected more and like you have the
Internet and you have all these sort of ways that
we can comes from the natural progression of like a
species on a planet. Yeah, I look so forward to
(32:00):
less white faces as people like we're gonna be so
much more attractive and you have better immune basics of
diversity and evolution. It's it's these people. I M. So,
if you've ever heard the phrase white genocide or seeing
a eight tattoo, you can thank at least half of
that for David Lane. And Lane, of course was directly
(32:23):
inspired by William Luther Pierce, who was radicalized and molded
by George Lincoln Rockwell, there he is again. It always
comes back like a John Jacob Jinkle Harmer Schmidt for Nazis.
But with Nazis, you know, it's not for Nazis the
wonderful products and services of the show and her program
Sophie's checking her phone out, So I think I can
(32:44):
get away with that one and products We're bad. Yeah,
he's happy to be here. Yeah, y'all heard of Matthew Heimbach. No,
he's the founder of the now defunct Traditionalist Worker Party
(33:06):
and one of the forces behind the first deadly Unite
the Right rally. Uh. He was a lot more prominent
in the ault right until after the Unite the Right rally.
And like in two seventeen he or two than eighteen
here he got caught sleeping with the wife of his spokesman,
a guy named Matthew Harry oh Man and the nicknames
some people came up with for for that whole event
(33:28):
which led to the destruction of the t w P.
It's beautiful, the Night of Wrong Wives. Oh that's so good,
so good, well clever, you get really smart, really really
good joke. I don't know who made it. Might have
been a Nazi. Still a good joke, Still a really
(33:49):
good joke. Now, Matthew Heimbach was for a while the
most or one of the most notorious white supremacists in
the country. He gained notoriety early on in the mid
odds as the young, media savvy face of white nationalism.
One of his innovations in terms of presenting fascism to
Americans was to focus on racial separatism instead of white supremacy.
(34:09):
Heimbach went out of his way to say that whites
are not inherently superior. Richard Spencer preached a broadly similar
gospel at least two reporters. Rockwell was more openly racist
and fascist than either of those men, but he pioneered
the use of the tactic they both used. We can
see the seeds of the strategy and his support for
the Nation of Islam and black nationalism. Rockwell total reporter
at the time that his only disagreement with the Nation
(34:31):
of Islam was quote, they want a chunk of America,
and I prefer that they go to Africa. Heimbach basically
refined that too, I think they should stay in predominantly
black areas like Detroit and rural America should stay white.
In a very real way, Rockwell represents a bridge between
the original Nazis Hitler and Crew and modern neo Nazis
and fascists in America. I've spent quite a lot of
(34:53):
time reading through Unicorn riots, archives of fascist discord conversations
mostly from members of the groups that planned the first
deadly Unite the Right rally. These people talk about Rockwell
or g l R pretty regularly. Here's one quote. Today
is the birthday of Commander George Lincoln Rockwell. Honor this
man by cooking a steak, celebrating national socialism, pride and
being white and calling your neighbor and in word here
(35:14):
I have linked the playlist to a series of videos
about George Lincoln Rockwell that you can play throughout the day. Personally,
I'm having a cookout with some edgy friends and I'm
going to be blasting this ship that is so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Cody might die. Oh we have barbeque and play the
(35:42):
words of a Nazi has been dead for sixty years. Edgy,
all right, I think have fun and always remember and
he quotes from Rockwell here, life is a struggle even
to stand up, as a struggle against the law of gravity.
And I think that the joy of life the struggle itself,
(36:03):
not the victory, because if it were, we'd all lose.
We're all going to croak, we all lose the battle
of life. So if you can't find some fun in
the fight to live and live to the fullest, then
you're a failure already before you even start live life
for the fullest. Have some have some fun while you
are making racist banners to troll Martin Luther King's junior
(36:24):
with friends having fun? What's the point which your edgy
friends like the guy and the girla and the dude
who shoots you in a couple of years. Yeah, real,
real edgy, like a bunch of edge lords just killing
each other. And oh god, you had to explicitly say
like me and we're like edgy. I love it. I
(36:46):
also love that. Like there's the whole Like, I just
think that they should stay where they are. We stay,
we're in a superior that's literally Hitler quote uh of
him saying like, no, I don't think we're superior. I
think like Chinese people stay in China. You say, were
you Japanese people? Hey? The Axis was a multi racial empire.
You see, you see, you see it included all the races, Germans, Italians,
(37:11):
Japanese people. That's the whole spectrum. I edgy, Japanese friends,
Italian friends, one group of Indian soldiers Yep, there you go,
Indish legion. They were just they hated Britain. Hitler wasn't racist.
Confirmed that that is actually how that's been turned into.
Yeah yeah, oh, I also hate the Internet. Door Countercurrents
(37:35):
dot com, a Nazi website for fucking Nazis, commissioned an
article on Rockwell in honor of his birthday, written by
Gregory Hood, author of a book called Rockwell Was Right.
So Gregory hood analysis is interesting to me. Quote Rockwell's
national socialism was not an ideology so much as a tactic,
an attempt to build a fighting conservatism capable of defeating
(37:56):
the militant left. Rather than Nietzsche, Baron Evola, or even
Alfred Rosenberg, the greatest influences on George Lincoln Rockwell where
Senator Joe McCarthy, Douglas MacArthur, and even William F. Buckley.
His inability to rally the American right marks a milestone
and white political activism, as George Lincoln Rockwell is the
bridge between patriotic racial conservatism and revolutionary white nationalism. Not wrong,
(38:20):
not wrong, not relevant. Uh, didn't make you think of
a lot of stuff today. Just just a random quote
for a random Nazi website. This is why a guy
like Rockwell can influence both explicit neo Nazi terrorists and
much more moderate, less murderous groups like the Proud Boys.
(38:40):
If you spend any time hanging out with the Proud Boys,
or watching Patriot prayer rallies, or watching videos posted by
either of these groups, members of them will regularly and
proudly describe themselves as anti communist. If you go any
to any of these bloody rallies as I have, you
will see anti communist action shirts and you will hear
the phrase anti communist or ant de calm bandied about constantly.
(39:02):
In June of nineteen sixty, George Rockwell went to court
to defend his application to march at Union Square in
New York City. There were huge protests of his presence,
some of which disrupted the court proceedings. A recess was
called and Rockwell took the opportunity to go out and
speak to some of the waiting TV cameras. According to
the book for Race and Nation, Quote, Rockwell told television
(39:25):
reporters that the A and P was growing every minute,
but that his goals had been misrepresented by newspapers. Contrary
to newspaper reports. We are not trying to exterminate anybody,
but we are trying to eliminate communism. We want to
shock the American people into the awareness of the extreme
danger of what is going on. After that, he said
he only wanted to gas traders, which he expected would
(39:46):
encompass no more than eight percent of the Jewish population. Sorry,
I don't want to exterminate anybody, but the population. Communism
is the same thing as Judaism, is the same thing
as any like any art, Leftism, liberalism onto something that's
(40:09):
a sticking point with people that they're afraid of, they
don't understand, and then like milk and that unite the
right to defeat authoritarian left exactly exactly now. When Rockwell
said there's the line about gassing eighty percent of Jewish
people in America, this caused many in the crowd to
shout at him. One person tried to attack him, but
was held back. The reporter asked Rockwell how he responded
(40:31):
to such rage. Rockwell replied, quote, I'm used to it.
They never makes such a fuss over communist speaking. It's
only when someone is an anti communist. No, no, no, no,
there's more to it in life George Lincoln Rockwell was
never able to unite the right, but in death his
ideas have gone on to have influence at every level
(40:53):
of the radical right wing ecosystem. I would like to
close by quoting a paper from the University of Glasgow,
the Leaderless Resistance, George Lincoln Rockwell and the White Separatist
Movement quote. The advantage of history and political context allows
an accurate appraisal of Rockwell and American Nazism. Rockwell as
a phenomenon has never been equaled in the American far right.
(41:14):
With his panash charisma, ability to manipulate situations and gain
media exposure, Rockwell had little in common with many of
his followers, who are attracted to the Nazi philosophy he advocated.
Prior to Rockwell, the extreme right was an exclusive resort
devoted of Catholics and non Aryan whites. It was Rockwell
who ended that exclusivity. I care not what religion, club, area,
or class you come from, nor what bit of colored
(41:35):
cloth you wave as a flag. We are all under
deadly attack. Gel l r JE cheer for that guy.
That's U. I mean, every single time we're on this show. Yeah,
(41:56):
it's hard to say yeah, and they not. Like a
lot of these groups acknowledge him, and and he's very
regularly talked at. He shows up all the time. If
you go to Unicorn Riots database of discord leaks of
all these different groups from Identity Europa, the t w P,
(42:18):
it comes up constantly. Sure they love him, and he's
he's you know, there's a great book called Everything You
Love Will Burn, which is about it was about a
guy who's like for like two eleven on two sixteen,
he was just hanging out with these guys like Matthew
Heinbach in different fascist right wing guys and like decided
during the election, I gotta write a book about like
(42:39):
I'm gonna I'm gonna do this thing. And Rockwell comes
up in that like he's a lot of other people
have made this connection. He is the I mean and
and and you know, even when it's indirectly with Siege
and the Turner Diaries, He's still the guy who was
talking to the fucking author of Siege when that dude
was fucking fourteen years old. He's the guy who gave
William Pierce his first newsletter and you know started him
(42:59):
on the path writing the Turner Diaries. He is patient
zero of the fucking plague that killed eleven people in
the Tree of Life Synagogue, that led Christopher hass In
to plan a massacre, and it's going to be behind
the masker that may have happened by the time this
episode drops. So g l R lose fucker. Well know,
(43:25):
I was going I was going for it looks like
an R. We've been at this for a while. Lose,
get lost something one pump, get lost Rockwell, I don't know,
get lost Rockwell. There you know that is good? U. Yeah,
thank you. I liked his reaction. Robert's reaction was much
better than you. I'm still upset at my failure. I know. Wow.
(43:50):
I mean my brain feels a little mushy from all
of that, but also um horrified, muscified, mucified. Um. I
choose to not learn anything from this though. Yeah, this
is the right decision. All this history sort of seems relevant.
But I'm going to push out of my mind. I'm
not sure. It'll probably be fine. I think it'll be fine,
(44:13):
Probably be fine. Histories for lostens. Trying to find a quote.
My favorite quote about history is those who h learned
from history shouldn't say anything because it's not important. This
is what Lindsay from You're the Worst says about history. Okay,
whatever history you happened, already, let it go, oh twenty
(44:41):
one century right there? If you care about history. And
they're worried about all this stuff. I have an audio bookcase.
There's a lot more that I had to leave out
because I wrote thus words about George Lincoln Rockwell, there's
a whole lot more Christian identity, talking more about siege
in the Turner Diaries, and a bunch of the stuff
that we did not get to that explains Dylan Roof
(45:04):
and all these other fucking mass murderers. Uh. The audio
book that I'm working on is called The War on Everyone.
You can go to go fund me, look up the
War on Everyone. Donate. I'll make that audio book and
then I'll use the money to go stare at these
people at rallies and ask them difficult questions, and then
I'll do stuff into yet everybody's life. I really feel
(45:29):
like the Democrats are gonna get it together. Oh interesting, Interesting,
that seems historically like what they'll do. Everyone will get
behind one candidate and they'll they'll do a great job
of campaigning, the news media won't breathlessly cover the lies
that the president says about that manna uh, there will
be no more fighting in the streets. Um. And then
(45:49):
we will elect an actual being of light who descends
from the sky and it's just the reincarnated soul of Mr.
Rogers who will who will lead us into a future
of national healthcare and moderate environmental activism so that we
can stop the nightmare. Yeah. Interesting, I have to say
(46:13):
confidently that you think that Democrats will get it together.
My heart um lifted a little bit. And then you
kept talking. I mean they might know. I think what
you're saying. I mean, I'll say this in two thousand
and eight, when like before, Barack Obama was like the candidate.
(46:34):
I was looking at him and Hillary duking it out,
and I was like, Oh, the Democrats are gonna suck
it up, and after eight years of George W. Bush,
we're gonna get fucking this this mess. And then the
best political candidate of my lifetime are best at least
political campaign of my lifetime? Maybe yeah, Well then we
don't know. Everything starts so soon. Now it's March, the
(46:58):
year before this March, and by my account, a hundred
and forty six million people are running for president. Sheared
Brown just said he's not running anymore. Oh good, yeah, good,
I support I do like him. I mean I don't
like this qualities. I like he seems like an affable
man that I enjoyed dinner with. I wasn't going to
(47:19):
vote for him. Yeah, anyhow, we need more coffee billionaires. Yeah,
ah man, that coffee billionaire. Because if there's one thing
I don't have a joke, cream cream. I think we've
come up with the slogan that's gonna win into no matter,
(47:42):
no matter who is. I know, I'm imagining Cody. Picture
this in your mind's eye. Half a million people crowding
the streets of Washington, d c. Flooding the National Wall,
their hands on placard, shouting at the White House, and
one voice as one people, one pump, one cream. Oh yeah,
(48:07):
it's one pump, one cream, one cream. One Yeah. I
see that act, see that very vividly. It's it's beautiful.
I see the like a phoenix America above the powder,
the powdered cream ashes, the ted cruise. Colm, Oh, how
(48:28):
did we get here? Why? It's three hours of this?
You guys want to plug your plug doubles before we
start saying something crazy more than anything. Yeah, you know Internet, Yeah,
we do weekly uh youtubeast podcast called even more News. Um.
We do a weekly YouTube show called some More News,
(48:49):
um Google that you can supported via Patreon dot com
slash some more News. That's good job. We should just
like designate one of us to do this each opiod episode.
I like sales hierarchy as a cancer. Do it this
way Internet, Katie Stoll Katie's com Dr Mr Cody on Twitter. Also,
(49:14):
I'm Robert Evans, Am I right okay? On Twitter. You
can find this podcast behind the Bastards dot com. You
can find t shirts if you want a T shirt,
I'm sure we'll have a one. Can we get it
in the tank? Of course. We can get into tanks
out a stickers put them on everything, one like a
Rosie the riveter on there. Not her exactly, but you
(49:37):
can find all the sources for this in our website
behind the Bastards dot com. I'm Robert Evans. Until next time,
for the love of God, if you remember nothing else,
remember one pump one clean eight two
Behind the Bastards News
Host
Robert Evans
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