Part Three: Morton Downey Junior: The Ur-Media Grifter

Robert is again joined by Tom Reimann to discuss Morton Downey Junior.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Fall schworm Jagger. That was a German named for paratrooper.
I don't know why I started the episode saying, Tom,
how are you? How are you doing? Do you know
that the German word for paratrooper is falseh room jagger?
I did not know that. Well, now you do, thank you.
They had, you know, the Nazis had an aquatic little

(00:23):
jeep that could go on the water. They called a
schwimmin wagin. That's sweet, that's kind of funny. What do
we call it? That's our swimming wagon? Head is ye vehicle?
It does the old Tom? Yeah, how are you feeling?
Two pieces of ship into this? I'm vibing on some

(00:43):
clown shoes right now. You are vibing on some clown shoes. Well,
right now, Tom, this exact moment, the second in time
that we both inhabit, which may be eternal if if
certain philosophers are right, this very moment could go on forever,
both forwards and backwards in time, be completely encompassing, as
all moments are. This moment we're going to talk about

(01:04):
a guy you have heard of. Mr Morton Downey dances
all the way down just just my ears. Yeah, that's
a name. That's a name. Yeah, Tom, what do you
know about Morton Danny Jr. J As we call him.
He's like a pinky ring that fell into a puddle

(01:26):
of toxic waste to became a man. He's he's played.
He plays the slick, he plays the slimy journalist that
Danny Glover punches in the face and Predator to And
he sure isn't Predator to you, God damn right playing himself. Yeah,
he's absolutely playing himself in Predator to, which is incredible. Yeah,

(01:50):
easily the second best Predator movie. It's it's easily the
second Predator film. Yeah, definitely, you can't take that away
from it. It is the second one of the Insure
dobly the second Predator film. Yeah, I know, he's like,
he's he's uh. He was sort of like um the
uh the yeng to Phil Donna Hughes Yang at the time,
where Phil Donna Hue was like kind of nice and

(02:12):
personable and Morton Downey was a real son of a
bitch when he was a real piece of shit. And
the fun thing about Morton Downey Junior, Tom Uh is
that if you start researching Morton Downey Jr. The first
like Google result that tries to auto fill when you
start typing his name in is is Morton Downey Junior
related to Robert Downey Jr. And my answer to that
is it does not appear to be, so just just

(02:34):
just a fun coincidence, which is weird because he does
have a famous dad like Robert Downey Jr. Um, but
just a completely different one. I just that's that's very funny. Yeah. Um,
so uh, let's let's let's let's talk about m d j. So.
Morton Downey Jr. Was born on December nine, nineteen thirty two,

(02:55):
in Los Angeles, California. His father was obviously a guy
named Morton Downey. Two thirds of these guys are Californians.
Well that in the thirties, I'm like, funk, he's old, ancient, dusty,
old racist mummies. That's because they were established by the
time the eighties got going and they could really start
fucking some ship up for everybody. That's true. I keep
saying at the eighties was four decades ago. Yeah, it's

(03:17):
been a long time since the eighties, thank god. So. Um.
His father was obviously Morton Downey, which probably means nothing
to everyone listening, but it meant an awful lot to people.
In the nineteen twenties and early thirties. Morton Downey's nickname
was the Irish Nightingale, and he was one of the
most popular singers of his day. He had Morton Downey Jr.

(03:38):
Whose first name was Sean, with his first wife, Barbara Bennett,
and Barbara was famous because she was the sister of
two women who were famous actresses. Morton Downey Senior would
ultimately have five children, four sons and a daughter. He
was not a nice man, or at least people who
knew Morton Downey Jr. Say he did not think well
of his father. There is, in fact, significant evidence that
he despised the man. He desperately wanted to succeed as

(04:00):
a singer, and he tried repeatedly as a young man
to follow in his father's footsteps, appearing on early game shows,
where his performance was reviewed positively by guys like Dean Martin.
I thought he had an alright voice, but most experts
agree he just didn't have what his father had. There
was something lacking in his voice that like he was
just never going to have the kind of career his
dad had. The Downey family were well to do he

(04:22):
grew up, you know rich Ish. Um they lived in
I mean, if you want to know how well to
do they were, they lived in Hyannas Sport in Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
And their next door neighbors worth the Kennedy's. Yeah, yes,
it's like that's how that's how much money they got.
His kids which ish Yeah, Yeah, they're hanging there, hanging
with the Kennedy's. Morton Downey Jr. Was good friends with

(04:43):
Joe Kennedy. Well, Morton or Morton Downey Senior was good
friends with Joe Kennedy one and um as When Morton
Downy Jr. Was a child, he would hang out regularly
with the Kennedy boys, you know, like he knew Robert
and JFK when they were younger. Um, like they were
all buds together. I guess down Emmy's a bit younger.
But Downey attended New York University, and like the others

(05:03):
and like our other subjects, seems to have immediately known
he wanted a career in radio. He got a job
as the program director and announcer for a radio station
in Hartford, Connecticut, in the early nineteen fifties. Over the
next decade, and change. He was hired primarily as a DJ,
although he also sang for several pop and country records
and wrote a handful of songs that saw modest success.

(05:23):
Like Wally, George Morton Downey Jr. Bounced around various markets Phoenix, Miami,
Kansas City, San Diego, and Seattle. Also, like Wally, he
was a huge asshole and had trouble working with people.
He was forced to resign from a Miami network when
he gave the home phone number for a competing DJ
out on the air and insulted the man's wife, like

(05:44):
doc's the guy on live on the air. I want
to I want to hear I hear him croon. I
had no idea that was his background. Oh, I mean
we can he cut an album? Tom? You know what, Tom,
We'll play this right now, see it? Yeah, let's let's
do this now. I need you to hear his song
about the war on drugs? What's it called? Hey there,
Mr dealer man? Mr dealer pushes. So that's the kids

(06:17):
of America. Just make that Dyn sleeves bag country comb
a la. He's like attacking the microphone. Yeah, feel welcome
to his eternal laugh. He looks like a skeleton at

(06:42):
a costume contest, dressed his team. All right, that's probably
enough of Hey there, Mr dealer, So this will mean
more when you've had Dean Martin was too kind to him.
He was better when he was younger too, his earlier
his earlier ship is I think because he's he's he

(07:03):
was famous when he recorded, so he was like doing yeah,
but he's still like yeah, it's yeah, yeah. I don't
think he had a bad voice and the stuff you
can hear from younger. There's a good documentary about but
yeah he has he has going real agro there um.
And it's because you know, he was already a name
at that point and he was he was doing a

(07:24):
bit or maybe he just like was out of his mind,
because that's what being famous does to you after a while.
I don't know. You can see the cocaine just like
in an aura. Yeah, yeah, it followed him around. In
nineteen sixty eight, Morton took a break from his work,
his career, which was again he was kind of a
mix of a DJ and and a kind of a
pinch hitter in the music industry, coming in to do
background vocals and stuff to work on that campaign for

(07:46):
his good childhood friend Bobby Kennedy. When Kennedy was assassinated,
Morton wrote a book of poetry with the title Quiet
Thoughts Make the Loudest Noise. The book was a way
of processing grief. And you can still find a handful
of hardcover copies on Amazon for like a hundred and
forty eight dollars. I am not buying one of them,
but I did transcribe one of the poems he wrote

(08:08):
specifically about Robert Kennedy's death. Um from the documentary A
Bocketur and I'm gonna read that to you now, row
upon row of grief racked followers, sunken cheeks replacing their
years ago happy faces, saying proudly for their departed friend,
their final hope, and wondered why a man must die
to be a hero, and whether we honor only those
our own selfish hearts destroy. Yeah. I don't think sunken

(08:31):
cheeks is what he meant to say, but um, but yeah,
that's kind of you know, it's kind of profound, right, Al.
He's certainly like a man who's thinking about like the
nature of Yeah, that was it was thoughtful. You wouldn't
call him a shallow man based on that, Um, he's
a man who's trying to process complicated, in sorrowful emotions
in a in an artistic way. Clearly a person capable

(08:52):
of not just feeling grief, but of expressing it artistically. Um.
He continued to sing occasionally, and he made his living
as yet another disc jockey until in nineteen eighty three,
the same year that the Wally George TV Show starts,
a year before Rush Limbaugh gots on talk radio, he
gets a job as a talk radio host on w
d b O in Orlando, Florida. So yeah, and again

(09:15):
they're both kind of writing this wave of right wing
populism and the rise of the religious right and Ronald
Reagan like they're part of a thing. They're not starting it,
but they are also influencing the way this thing grows.
So Wally George and Morton Danny Jr. Both rode that
right wing wave and helped to shape it. Morton Danny Jr.
Was even more incendiary and control uncontrolled than Wally. He

(09:36):
lost his first talk show gig after he punched a guest,
an abortion rights activist named Bill Baird, who he then
called a son of a bitch, so how many episodes
in that? So yeah, Wally George screams at people and stuff.
Uh and I think shoved some folks a few times.

(09:57):
Or Nanny Jr. Just called Cox some motherfucker like months
into his first talk show and again a radio talk show.
I wonder if you can hear like the meat sound
on the on the microphone. I haven't found this audio,
but I bet it's great. Next. According to the New
York Times quote, Mr Downey was soon hired by kf

(10:18):
b K a M radio, a news talk station in Sacramento, California.
There he told a joke in which he used the
word Chinaman several times, angering Tom Yeah. Not that surprising,
is it, um um? So yeah, he tells a joke
in which he uses the word chinaman several times, which
pisces off Tom Chin, a Chinese American member of Sacramento

(10:39):
City Council who was listening in his car. And why
I wonder why that bothered him? Wonder why he get
angry at that? Mr Chin called the station. According to
the councilman and to Paul our errand then the station's
program director. Mr Chin was put through to Mr Downey,
who let loose a verbal tirade against him. Mr Downey
was discharged the next day. So he tells a racist

(10:59):
joke on air. It offends the member of the city
council who calls, and then he proceeds to be racist
to that guy laugh on the air and loses his job. Yeah. Yeah,
that's usually probably should be what happens. Yeah. Yeah, Now
the station had to obviously had to shoot can Morton.
Danny june I liked that. He was like, Oh, I'm sorry,
I'll just be racist to you directly then, Yeah, do
you do what would you like me to just be

(11:20):
a piece of ship to your face? I did not
mean to do it to your back on the air,
absolutely not. Forgive me. Let me be an asshole directly
to me, to be an asshole directly to you, I
don't mean to be rude. Um. So they had to
fire him. But he was also and you'll you'll hear
different things about how popular he was. By some accounts
he was he was very successful. By some accounts just

(11:42):
modestly successful. I I can't tell you which. Um, but
he did well enough that the station was like, well,
this guy's built an audience. They're very dedicated and so
when he leaves, they decide they need to replace him
with another right wing firebrand, someone who can still stir
up the same kind of populist rage, but also isn't
quite as race sist. You know, they picked Tom. I
don't wanna know who followed him into the job. You

(12:04):
might have heard of this guy, little fella. He might
know his name, Rush Limbaugh. Oh yeah, that's how Rush
gets his first big political gig. It was Morton Downey
being too racist on the air. It was too racist,
and so Rush Limbaugh came in and said, I can
be slightly less racist than that. I can for a while,

(12:24):
for a little while. Eventually I'll be much more racist
than that. I could be slightly less racist. Two people's faces.
Yeah again for a while, for a for a while.
I love like, man, that was too racist. Let's get
Rush in here. Let's get you get that Rush Limbach
hit in here. Tone things down somewhat. Tom, Where do

(12:46):
you go when you've just gotten fired from your right
wing radio job for being too much of a racist
television No? I mean, but what city do you go to?
I don't know. Cleveland? Cleveland? Yeah, you get you get
your ass on down to Cleveland. Hey, our rivers are
very rarely on fire, um, unlike Cleveland. So he gets

(13:09):
hired by W E. R. E a M. To improve
the poor ratings of its talk show department. He was
forced out there when he again hurld racial slurs at
an elected leader. This one of you municipal court judge?
Who seeing this coming? Who could have guessed? Wally George,
the man who punched an abortion rights activist and lost
his first radio show, lost his second for screaming racial

(13:33):
slurs at a city councilor would lose his third show
for screaming racial slurs at a municipal court Judgeops among us,
who among us has not on a bad day hurld
racial slurs at a circuit court judge? Or where was
those of us who have not gone to jail have
done that? Um? So while his former employer wrestled with

(13:55):
a lawsuit as a result of this, Morton Downey Jr.
Moved to Chicago to do it all over again. And
so during both of the state Yeah the strategy Chicago Yeah,
Chicago forgives all sense. During his first two dalliances with
talk radio, Morton Downey Jr. Had a regular segment on

(14:15):
his shows called the Executive Intelligence Report, which is him
reading from a magazine published by Lyndon LaRouche. We're gonna
have to do a whole episode on Lyndon LaRouche at
some point, um, but for now you'll have to be
satisfied with this quick description of Lyndon courtesy of a
New York Times obituary. And again this is the source
of of Morton Downey Junior's Executive Intelligence Report quote. Lyndon Larus,

(14:39):
the quixotic, apocalyptic leader of a cult like political organization
who ran for president eight times once more a prison cell,
died on Tuesday. He was nineties six. Defining what yeah,
all right, that's a motherfucking sentence as an entire sentence,
Defining what Mr Laruche stood for or was no easy task.

(15:01):
He began his political career on the far left and
ended it on the far right. He said he admired
Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Abraham Lincoln, and Ronald Reagan and
loathed Hitler the composure Richard Wagner and other anti Semites,
though he himself made anti Semitic statements, and boy did
he a lot of them. He was a fascist Tom
he was a fascist political cult leader, was like, we

(15:23):
don't know what the funk he believed. He believed in
Lyndon Laruge having a bunch of like he had a
bunch of followers who basically it was a cult, like
they lived for this man, and they would go out
and proselytize on the street. They would hand out papers
at college campuses. Laruche argued that environmentalists were trying to
wipe out the human race, which is a claim that
Alex Jones now parents. He believed Clean Queen Elizabeth was

(15:44):
trying to murder him personally. He argued that Jews had
founded the KKK, and he described Indigenous Americans as lower beasts.
So this is the source of Morton Downey Jr's intel
of finding a couple of consistent threads in his belief
structure that perhaps his obituary could have latched onto he
may and I think they may have gotten into that later.

(16:06):
That was like the first two paragraphs. I just read
that obituary and was like, my god, that is a sentence. Yeah,
that first sentence almost knocked me out of my chair. Yeah,
what a fucking life. The president eight times once from prison,
but it was a tax thing. I think, um again,
we'll do I'll have to read into him and we'll

(16:27):
do a whole episode on Lyndon Laruche. He's quite a character.
But yeah, the head of Morton Downey Jr's Intel program. Now,
the fact that Morton Downy Junior platform this guy is
very fucked up, and it's arguably more fucked up because
Morton Downey Jr. Did not really like him. As he
told The New York Times, I decided I was going
to be as friendly towards these people and get as
much information out of them as I could, because someday

(16:48):
I would expose them. Now that's bullshit. It's true that
he did eventually get Lyndon Laruche on his TV show
and he tore him apart like it was a very
aggressive interview with Lyndon, but he also continued to spread
Larusha's newsletter and other publications after that point, calling the
fascist cult leaders intelligence information quote the second or third
best in the world based on what Morton Downey Jr.

(17:11):
Morton Downey Junior doesn't know. Ninth build cast member of
Predator to yeah, mother, I mean he did make the
top ten. Look look in fairness, that's more than either
of us have ever done in terms of predators. But
I'm not out here saying this is the second or
third most reputable intelligence with mort in the world. No,

(17:32):
you're not. No, based on your your experience, which is
you and I both did get to look at the
predator costume. Yes, O wait, No I didn't. Well you
weren't there. That wasn't to but I saw the video.
It was radem just knowing that I was that close
to something that had touched Morton Downey Jr. Was It

(17:54):
was just powerful, Tom, really powerful. You know what else
has touched Morton Downey Jr. In a secual These products
and services Probably they fucked him. They fucked him. Products
and services have been inserted into Morton Downey Jr. Absolutely,
That is again the only promise we make about our sponsors.
So if he seems fine with us, so I'm just
going to continue. That's an ad that's an AD throw.

(18:16):
That's an AD throw. Baby. Oh we're back. So by
nine seven, Rush Limbaugh Show had exploded in popularity. Wally
George was the talk of Orange County. This is kind
of the height of the Wally George Show too, and
despite Morton's mixed success on radio a station in New

(18:38):
York slash New Jersey. I guess it covered both decided
let's give this guy a TV show. And I think
they're looking at Wally George over in OC. They're seeing
Rush Limbabo in the radio and they're like, this guy
could be a could be a hit on TV. And
in fairness, they're not wrong. He was. Yeah, he was
filmed in c Caucus. The Morton Downey Junior Show was
cut very much in the shape of Wally George his

(19:00):
hot seat. In fact, while he even had Morton on
his show in the late nineteen eighties and it was
immediately hostile. And I'm first going to play this clip
more than Daddy Jr. On the It's really a Freddie
versus Jason moment, say, two rats fighting over a dead cato.
And I have to say before if you're wondering what

(19:21):
Morton Downey Jr. Looks like, well, so if he gets
this clip together, remember Iron Giant, Remember the bad guy
from Iron Giant. He looks like Christopher's sleazy fed. Yeah,
he looks like he looks like Shooter McGavin. He looks
he does who was the same. I was blew me
away to learn that Shooter McGavin and the fed from
uh the Iron Giant are the same guy. Incredible thing

(19:45):
it he looks like he looks like Shooter McGavin with
novelty teeth, Shooter McGavin. If Shooter McGavin did like birthday
parties for children here it is. You're you're coming up
with the usual simplistic answers. Wally that conservatives who don't

(20:07):
know what the hell they're talking about. I've got an
audience out here. You've got an audience of monkeys out here.
We'll do everything that you tell them to do. He's
I'm wrong. I'm warning the next time you don't warn me.
Punk God, Wally George looks incredible a man. It looks

(20:32):
like the entertainment director and a cruise ship, like a
bad cruise ship. The cops have come on now and
they're pulling Morton Downey Jr. Off the show and tackling
he gets tackled by here, total Roger Stone vibes from
that guy. Was like yeah, And obviously all of that

(20:54):
was set up ahead of time. The plan was always
I suspect from Morton Downey Junior to get tackled by
share stepput Saw on the seat of Wally George's hot seat.
It seems so extreme and he's already so famous at
that point that they wouldn't Yeah, they would not dare
do that to him and listen to stage. Yeah, I
mean while yeah, yeah, it's it's very funny. Um and
and honestly, I can't tell you it may not have

(21:15):
been pre planned as much as both men just naturally
new going in. This is how this is going to end.
Like I'm I'm Morton Downy Jr. And the Wally George Show.
Of course I'm going to get tackled off stage during
like a nearly physical fight between the two of us.
This is just how this has to happen. I am
naturally enough of a right wing ship head firebrand that
that's just in my blood. The thing that the moment

(21:36):
we were on a camera together, this was what had
to happen. Right, whoever wins, we lose. Yeah. The real
Freddy Jason situation they stuck out to me was when
there's a scene, were not a scene. I'm talking about
this like it's a movie because it's so stage. Uh,
there's a part of the cliff where Wally George stands
up after uh, Morton Downey says, don't don't warn me.

(21:57):
He stands up like he's going to fight. But he
he says, he buttons his coat. He buttons his fucking coat.
That's the thing you do when you know you're gonna
be on camera. Do you do the opposite when you
know you're about to start throwing hands as you want
to unbutton that coat? So it's like you want to
but you might even want to take that if you're
really gonna throw hands, you take that shirt off and
you folded on the table. What you say, All right,
here's how things are gonna go, you know. So the

(22:19):
fact that he stood up and buttoned his jacket, it's like, yeah, yeah,
you know you're not gonna course of course, yeah that
it would have been very fun, but I don't think
either of well, actually, no, Morton Downy Jr. Definitely threw
a punch. He punched that guy who came on his
radio cheft to every you know, all the all the
what a terrible piece of shitty is and all the
funny things we're gonna do to to make fun of him.
On this episode, Morton Downey doesn't look like he hasn't

(22:41):
been in a fight. No, No, Morton Downy Jr. Morton
Downey Jr. Wouldn't have survived to this age if he
hadn't learned a couple of things about fighting, because that's
a man who piss his people off. Yeah, Wally George
is a man who was very careful to never piss
anyone off until he felt like he wouldn't get the
ship beating out of him, like he was an adult
and polite society. That was a kid who hide bully

(23:05):
into giving you an extra ride on the teacups at
the carnival like now moren Downy Jr. Was different from
Wally George and in fact, well he started off as
way more out of control. Again he got fired from
his first job for assaulting a guest. Um. He toned
it down for his actual TV show, Um, not much,
but in a in an intelligent way. He was actually
in a lot of ways, he was kind of a

(23:26):
mix between Wally George and and Joe pine Um because
like Wally George, he would be like a lunatic a
bunch of the time and like very loud, getting too
fights on stage and whatnot. A showman, but like Joe Pine,
he could actually sit down and have conversations with people,
even once he disagreed with about just screaming at them,
and there were actual debates on his show. Um So
he was not the same as Wally, and I think

(23:48):
that's why he was. He made more of an impact
because Wally George was never anything but just like pure
id And there was a little bit of of thinking
on the Morton Downey Junior show. Not I'm not saying
that to praise it, just to like characterized what he
was doing. It was a bit different than Wally George.
He opened his first episode with the words certain things
really burn my buns, and that more or less summed

(24:11):
up the focus. Morton was irritated by a lot of
things feminism, environmentalism, social justice, and he wanted to make
his audience angry too. Like Wally, he was happy to
platform people with differing beliefs so long as they would
get into arguments with him. That made good television. His
show was an immediate success, and it's wide audience meant
that some of his guests became stars in their own right.
One of his early interviews was a little known congressman

(24:32):
you might have heard of tom named Ron Paul. Now
Morton Downey Jr. Not a friendly introduction of Ron Paul.
Here he brings the congressman up on stage by saying,
we're going to talk to a man who could be
snorting cocaine in the Oval office. Because again, Ron Paul,
the thing that like, one of the things that made
him prominent early on is he's for the decriminalization or

(24:53):
legalization of all drugs. And Morton Downey Jr. Is, as
a Republican in this period of time, an arch drug warrior. Um.
So here's here's Ron Paul on the Morton Downey Junior Show.
You believe that the government should stay out of our
personal business altogether? What happens that's good, guys, but also
happens to be my personal business if I want to

(25:13):
kill my four year old kid. Right, No, no, no, no,
wait a minute, wait, you're giving you're giving libertarian a
distorted explanation, sir, Your people gave it to yourselves and
your platfor no. Let me explain that the answer is
that we are a lot of do what we want.
We even permit people smoke, siretutes happen that happens to
be the most deadly drug and not of states today.

(25:35):
Maybe we ought to abandoned. I wish you'd band it
right right now. You can buy it out on the street. Hey,
five dollars a pack. Do you see what a number one?
Ron Paul really comes across as a reasonable man in
that interfield? Yeah? Yeah, um, but you see that, you
see what I'm talking about. He's kind of a mix

(25:55):
of Wally George and Joe Pine because he's way more
aggressive and rude than Joe Pine. But he's also he's
not just shouting over him. Ron Paul gets he and
he'll he'll he'll quiet his audience down and whatnot. Like
he's he's he's he's found this middle level between the
two men. Um, that's certainly not like I mean, he's
a bully, he's a dick, but he's not what Wally
George was. It's not quite that same level of like

(26:18):
it's not as much of a lynch mob the audience.
Um yeah, still a lot of audience participation, but yeah,
less violently fascist, yeah, but still the bad faith arguments
still of course, in the same way that Joe Pine
was bad faith by you know, they all have this
in common. They all have this in common, and I
just think it's interesting how Morton. I think it's very

(26:39):
consciously mixing Joe Pine with Wally George in order to
kind of like Wally went way too far. Joe Pine
is not far enough for today's TV. Nobody would listen
to Joe Pine today. He's too calm, you know, he's
he's like he wants to maintain he wants the same
kind of controversy and and intense emotions of of Wally George,
but he wants to main same firm control of the show. Yeah, yeah,

(27:02):
I think that's exactly That's exactly it, um. And this
is probably why his show. And also you know the
fact that when he has people on embally disagrees with,
he does allow them more of a chance to make
their point. Ron Paul gets to say a lot in
this interview, and this is I don't want to say
this is like the reason he became prominent, but this
is a decent part of it. This is a significant
reason for his like why he started to become well known,

(27:25):
and it's in part because he does get he looks
good up there. He makes a lot of sense and
I think a lot of people like listening to Ron
Paul on the Morton Danny Junior Show, would be like, well,
this is actually a reasonable man um. I suspect, especially
considering the kind of like angry young men who would
watch the Morton Danny Junior Show. I'm sure a lot
of them got into Ron Paul watching this um in
a way that like with Wally George, that I'm sure

(27:48):
never happened because he never let people say that much.
UM and yeah. I mean it's hard to watch the
Ron Paul interview and dislike the man um where Joe
Pine was always chivalrous to his female guests, though even
though he agreed with Morton, felt no need to hold
his punches. At one point he had on a vegan,
which is again that was like the first thing we
saw Joe Pine doing is like talking to a vegan

(28:08):
so we can make fun of him. Um, which is
a big, a long reoccurring thing in like right wing politics.
Um and yeah, she made the point this vegan that
that that Morton's talking to you made the point that
vegan diets were healthier, to which Wally responded, I eat
raw hamburger, I eat raw fish. I smoked four packs
of cigarettes a day. I have about four drinks a day.
I'm fifty five years old, and I look as good

(28:29):
as you do, which is gonna be funny later, although
you do have to be fair like he looks a
lot younger than Joe Pine does. When Joe Pine was
like forty, Joe Pine looked like a pyramid, like a
pyramid made man. He says he's smoking four packs of
cigarettes a day. Joe Pine is smoking four packs of
cigarettes an hour, like he sees here. So one of

(28:55):
his most popular sparring partners was feminist lawyer Gloria Allred,
who again gained a lot of her popularity because of
the Morton Downey Junior Show. This is a big vector
for a lot of people who are who are still
prominent today. Again not the only reason, but like, this
is a big show, this is a significant cultural moment,
and she has a big role in it. She's a
regular guest um and she and Downey would like spar

(29:16):
a lot constantly. You might have expected her to hate him,
like given her politics and his politics. They certainly fought
like Hey and is on the air. But as the
documentary of Vocatur makes clear, the two got along. This
was a game and they were both happy to play
it in order to make themselves famous. And I'm gonna
have Sophie play this club. This is from the documentary
of Vocatur, which I really do recommend. Anyone who had

(29:38):
breasts was a feminist, saying almost no feminist who have
ever burned a brass So let me get that straight.
Whoever had anything that they needed to wear a bra for?
Between us, there was a certain amount of sexual attention,
likewise on your jockstrap, but in how does she know
she has a tape measure on her tongue? Like Jesus,

(30:02):
Yeah right, that's just that's just gross all around. I
feel like I need a shower. But also you you
see the difference again when Wally Wally George never had
it like it wasn't yelling at people, he was like
friendly with, Like clearly he wanted that with some of them,
Like he was willing to like talk with Blaze and
be like, hey, we could have a good thing going.
He was able to find people who were media trained,
who were talented in their own right, who could go

(30:24):
on and have show arguments with him to keep the
crowd braying. But there was nothing. He didn't. He didn't again,
he didn't believe in ship. But while Wally George like couldn't.
I guess I don't think Wally, when Morton Jenny Jr.
Was willing to do was have someone get in hits
on him verbally, like he wanted that kind of sparring,
you know, because that's good TV. I think Wally George
was just too brittle a man to accept that. Yeah, Yeah,

(30:47):
Morton Enny, I don't I think never would have taken
anything really personally because he's a showman and he gets
that like, well, I'm Evan Gloria On Like, neither of
us believe in anything. We just are using this as
a vehicle for our own personal fame and we can say,
like have whatever fights we want to have. And yeah,
they would have made a good couple because they're both
the same person more or less. Ye. So, eight months

(31:11):
into its run, the Morton Downey Junior Show was a
wildfire hit. The New York Times sent in a reporter
to watch the show as it was taped, and his
recollection does a good job of setting up the mood.
Quote Sean Morton Downey Jr. Shawn to his friends more
mort to the adoring t shirted fans crowding the New
Jersey Television studio audience, smoked in paste and spewed venom.

(31:33):
You're not licking the beauties of the boots of the bureaucracy.
That doesn't give a damn about the American people, he commanded.
Bureaucratic bitch, he shouted. As the congregation and unruly, as
unruly as any Splatter film crowd at the nearby Lows
Metal Plaza eight jumped up and loudly voiced its approval. So, yeah,
that's the it's it's combatitive. But as you saw from
that glare alrd quote, they'll cheer it like somebody getting

(31:53):
in a hit on Morton too. There's it's not the
same Springer here. We're getting closer to Springer here. It's right,
it's more about the spectacle. They just want to see him,
They just want to see fla. Yeah. Mort was separated
from later imitators, people like Jerry Springer, and from people
like Wally George, who was a little earlier by his
willingness to physically confront his guests. He came very close

(32:14):
to getting into fights on several occasions, and his studio. Yeah,
his studio was the first in television to put the
audience through a metal detector. Oh man, And I'm sure
there was a mix of that's practical because he has
somebody might get fucking stabbed, but also that's like, that's
another thing we can brag about. This TV is so hot,
we gotta have a metal detector for the audience. That's

(32:36):
how intense this show is. Yeah, it's a it's a gimmick.
As with Wally George, his live audience particularly skewed towards
young and disaffected men, a lot of the same kind
of guys who would have been in the alt right
and would have been like edgy kids online today. The
documentary of Acatur includes interviews with some of these audience members,
including Joshua Rothman, who was now a history professor who

(32:57):
was part of Wally's regular audience when he was like
fucking like, it looks like he's like sixteen in this.
I'm sure it was a little older. But here's here's
Joshua explaining the appeal of showing up to a taping
of more show. If you guys and that other gram
went over there, like you pads a kid, I shove.
It was also sort of perfect for seventeen year olds

(33:19):
because it had no nuance at all. Everything was black
or white, and seventeen year olds problem. Everything is either
totally one thing or totally the other. There is no middle.
We are we're number one. You know what I think.
I think Donald Trump should take his board game and
just go to hell. Yeah that's all that's what you got, man. Yeah,

(33:44):
it looked like he was going to say something colorful
sixteen years you know, so that that says a lot
of it right there. Um, both like we didn't have YouTube.
If you were a kid and you want to, like
you feel like you have something to say, you could
get on TV if as long as you're willing to
like shout something stupid, Morton Downey Junior will put your
ass on television as long as you're to get possibly

(34:06):
beaten up by him on the air. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah,
I know, I get I get it, I get it.
It's yeah, he's given them not only in uh, he's
giving them an outlet. Um. Yeah, and it seems like
they like we we're talking about with the crowd of
Wally's show. It's it's more that it's it's not necessarily

(34:26):
the political views. It's they're latching onto this sort of
maximum anger. Anything goes this kind of environment. It's this
space where they can let out like every seventeen year
old as angry as ship about a bunch of different things.
And you could get on Morton Downey Junior Show and
you could either express real anger with something or what's
probably more common, you could express the anger inside you

(34:47):
and just throw it at anything, like it doesn't matter.
He just wants you to be loud and yelling and
he'll be happy with you. And and there's no you
can be edgy. If you want to just say something
funked up on TV, he can. He'll let you do that.
It's like ship posting to like all of this like
four chance stuff. You can see those impulses. He's giving
people an outlet for them. Yeah, And they showed the

(35:09):
clip from their homemade video that they that they made
like a sketch that they did these kids, yeah, pretending
to be Morton Downey Jr. So it's clear that it's
it's his like bombastic, this character that he is that
they're latching onto, less than his views. It's more it's
just the way he speaks and the way he behaves
and the way he's sort of you know, it's like
when people would chant, when people would chant Jerry Jerry, Yeah, exactly,

(35:32):
people would get into fights. It's nothing to do with
Springer himself. Yeah, and it's it's nothing to do these
kids don't care about I'm sure didn't. I mean, I'm
sure at the time they agreed with whatever political ship
he was saying, but didn't think. They're fucking seventeen year
olds like they were. Just they identified with the way
that he expressed emotion and the way that he let
them do it, and they're identified with an angry white

(35:54):
man being a hungry white man on television and being
colorful about it. Yeah. Um, Morton absolutely played the role
of a religious extremist. Again, I don't think he believed
in anything, certainly not God, but he knew that fights
over religion could make good television. And I'm gonna play
an exerpt here from an episode titled God Versus Atheism. Now,

(36:14):
we don't think to pray when they don't want to.
Any child is free to praying any time that he wants.
In the public schools today, we just say we're gonna
give you a minute to pray any time you want. No,
they the government doesn't tell children when to pray, what
to pray, how to pray, or even if they don't
like you and Madam God in the and made sure

(36:38):
we can't even say in the Bredge of Allegiance the
word God anymore in a public school because of you, guys. Yeah,
it's the same ship you see in nowadays. Stupid useless
argument we're still making. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Later on in
that same interview, Downey tells his atheist guest, this is
a nation of freedom. Are you a religion? Then you
have no fucking freedom, just like like nine year old

(37:00):
old arguments. You know, yeah, I don't even know what
the funk that's supposed to be. Um. Now. While the
Morton Danny Junior Show had lots of yelling and fighting,
some of its most sinister impacts came from the segments
that were calm, thoughtful debates. In my research, I came
across a roundtable discussion from night about black crime featuring

(37:20):
Reverend Al Sharpton, who is another person who really The
Morton Downy Junior Show massively increased his his platform, his profile,
like he owes a lot of his fame to the
Morton Danny Junior show. UM. It like it. It made
him and it helped make him into like a regular
fixture on tv UM. While the authority or while the
audience does hoot and holler some the discussion is very

(37:41):
civil and it's kind of chilling because one of Morton's
guests here goes on an extended tirade about black on
white crime statistics, which is like a major argument point
for fucking neo Nazis today. So here that is, in
the United States, more murders were committed by blacks twelve

(38:02):
percent of the population, then we're committed by white of
the population. These are the numbers right here, right out
of the Justice Department figures, and you can check them
later if anyone has any doubts on that. When you
check the murder figures in inter raciel crime, now inter

(38:23):
raciel means that you have a perpetrator of one race
and another race. Figures. Yeah, you find and I'll just
get to the conclusion of it. You find that the
black was more likely to murder of white than a
white was. That's enough of this. So obviously this guy's

(38:46):
statistics are very flawed, and one of Morton's other guests, Dr.
Gloria Toot does point this out pretty much immediately. We're
going to play that clip now too. Here's her like
slapping back on this. Number one, your credit is coloneous.
Crime is being reduced in America, not justid by blacks,
but by Americans in general. We have less crime in

(39:07):
N seven than we had ten years ago. Number two,
The Justice Department and state and local government officials in
crime have admitted that the reporting statistics are an era
as it relates to the crime reported by minorities and
crimes reported about white Number three. Also, it has now

(39:29):
been acknowledged by those officials that in many instances the
white criminal is not is not convicted or even arrested,
whereas your minority is. Now, I could go on and
on and on, but the fact that he has given
are just not accurate. And we do ourselves at disservice

(39:49):
when we don't look at what the problem is. So obviously, Um,
that's a more productive debate than was ever had on
the Wally George Show. It seems more like the kind
of stuff you might have heard on Joe Pine. Um.
And in fairness, he is bringing on people to contradict
and argue with this guy talking about black on white crime.
So you could call this, on one level, a more
responsible and productive debate than a lot of what you

(40:11):
see on right wing TV today. But I can't help
but see in this echoes of the kind of fascist
platforming that would become much more common in later years
without the measured pushback that Morton Show at least gave it.
The specter of black on white crime and high crime
rates among black people are two of the most virulent
uh and productive talking points of the fascist right. I
could go on a rant about Dylan Roof here, who

(40:33):
was he claims inspired to go on his massacre by
reading about black on white crime, But this discussion has
very deep roots. And I'm kind of torn between seeing
Morton here as someone who handed it better than some
people in the right um because he did have two
very well prepared black guests to counter this line of argument,
or whether I'm just more unsettled by the fact that
he put this fucking argument on television at all. Like,

(40:55):
I don't know kind of where to land on that,
but it it leaves me feeling unsettled. Yeah, No, I
I don't trust anything that any of these people do.
So it's I he just did it for Ray. He
knew this was a hot button issue for a lot
of people, and he had a full panel so that
he could maximize the outrage and the controversy and just
you know, you you don't get one person on there

(41:17):
to talk about their views, because that's not going to
start a fight. You have to get somebody else on
there to contradict what they're saying or counter what they're saying. Yeah, yeah,
that's uh, I think, I think what's going on here.
But you know who won't platform people spreading Nazi talking
points about race related crimes, Tom Hope, hopefully the fine
people bringing us these products and services. Yeah, they absolutely

(41:42):
do not, um unless it's in which case, oh boy,
here's ads. All right, we're back. Oh yeah. So Reverend
Al Sharpton was another media figure who got a massive
lee boost to his career thanks to the Morton Downey Jr. Show.

(42:02):
I want maybe not early, but he got this really
increased a lot of his visibility. He and Morton were
regular sparring partners, and they also were clearly friends. Al
made for great television. At one point he called another
guest a punk F word in a moment of rage.
In fact, it was Al's friendship with Morton Downy Jr.
That would prove to be the downfall of the Morton

(42:22):
Downey Junior Show. From the Chicago Tribune quote, it all
came to a head when the show began focusing on
the case of Tajuana Brawley, a fifteen year old African
American girl who claimed to have been raped by six
white men, including a police officer, and had KKK and
other vile words scrawled on her body. Show after show
was devoted to this case, many featuring the Brawley adviser
and then relatively unknown Al Sharpton. Downey beat that story

(42:46):
to death, and his ratings began to plummet, especially after
Brawley's accusations were deemed false by a grand jury. So
it does seem to be a case where Brawley was lying.
I think it's because she had like stayed out late
and had to come up with an excuse, and it
just was like a kid doing a um thing, and
then it blew up and became national news. It's it's
a very sad story. I think she's still like for
the rest of her life, will oh money to one

(43:07):
of the people she accused to suit her. It's like
pretty fucked up tail and Moreton Danny Jr. Jumped on
it and took it as a crusade, not because he
cared about this woman and thought that it was true, um,
but because you know it was TV and he's more
Danny Jr. The day. It's exact same mentality behind the
debate we just listened to. Yep, yep, exactly now. The

(43:28):
Tawana Brawley case led to one of the most infamous
moments of nineteen eighties television, when Mort had al sharpened
on with a black, white right wing activist named Roy Inness.
The stated goal of the episode was to determine who
was the leader of Black America both in it's so
but um um, it's a little more complex than is

(43:48):
it Sharpen or Inness? But that's kind of like the
inference that like, yeah, um, both Inness and Sharpen received
a chorus of booze when they're introduced, because that's the
kind of show this is. Mort starts the interview by
bringing up comments Sharpton made criticizing en Us. Sharpton goes
on a rant, calling us a sellout and then this happens,
and it's in a speaking at the start of this,

(44:10):
I'm one of the few, none bigger than black leaders. Run.
I will say, let me stay now, let's deal with
the facts. Let's go to the record tonight. We want
to deal with the records and the facts. Please do
it on this program, your program. You heard me. You
have me in tape defending this man recently, even after

(44:33):
the shenanigans with him and the other is a lot
of crap. Let brother, you have your time, brother ship. Yeah,
he just pushed out, He just he just shoved his
ass down onto the stage and a bunch of dudes
rush up to start shoving ship balls. Yeah. He kissed

(44:56):
him right off the stage. He pushed him right off
the day him stage. Yeah yeah, And it went fucking viral.
This moment was huge. Every TV show, like every news
show had the clips of this fucking weeks, like in
a way that like no genocide today goes as viral.
Is this clip of ol Sharpton getting shoved off a

(45:18):
stage went um, which is not a great because yeah
because yeah, yeah, yeah, I bet yeah, but we all
do um. Yeah. After the Tawanna Brawley case fell apart.
Nothing could abait the downward slide of Morton's ratings. The
next year, in nine nine, he made a desperate stab

(45:38):
at regaining his relevance. He filed a police report claiming
three skinheads had jumped him, beaten him up, and drawn
a swastika on his forehead and an airplane bat and
an airport bathroom. The police almost immediately came forward and
said that the facts of the case as he had
reported it to them, or is he he is he
reported to the media did not align with like what
he had said. Basically said like he's fucking lying. We

(46:01):
have no evidence that any of this is true. Um
that we can't substantiate any of his claims. And it
came out later one of his friends testified, like he
faked it. He like drew a swatstika, Like the photos
that he gave the cops are different from like the
photos that he put up on TV of like the
swastika on his forehead. Like he just like faked getting
jumped by skinheads to try to drum up like a
media controversy. He's just a desperate scum bought bag. He

(46:25):
made several comeback Yeah, and Android created to be a scumback,
just a ship droid full of just spewing poop. So
he made a few different comeback attempts, and he tried
to make a living doing talk radio, and he maintained
actually surprisingly robust career in movies. You've already mentioned He's
nine Bills and Predator to He was in Revenge of

(46:47):
the Nerds three, which is really quite a film. Uh,
he was in The Silencer. He was in Tales of
the crypt to name but a few episodes, although Wally
George really should have been the one in Tales from
the Crops. Yeah. Yeah. In six he was diagnosed with
lung cancer, which was embarrassing. Yeah, how dare you really?

(47:08):
We have we we have to thank Comrades Cigarettes for
getting two thirds of these guys out of the planet
critical support to chain smoking. Um, this was embarrassing. By
the sword, you die by the sword. And he had
he made a big deal about being a smoker on
the air, kind of like the way kind of Bill

(47:29):
Hicks did. If you listen to some of like those
routines um a cigarette and like every clip we've yeah,
he would talk about like these aren't bad for me?
I look better than you. You know, we read that
clip a little bit earlier, and he does. He does,
mother looks. He doesn't look good. He doesn't look good. Um,
he's all teeth. Yeah. He had, he had, He had

(47:51):
made so much hay out of like being a smoker.
He had autographed cigarettes. Seed promised never to quit. But
then he gets lung cancer and so he immediately comes
an anti smoking activist, begging people to stop. He told
one interviewer, I used a cigarette as a combat weapon,
and I never gave much thought to the chance that
this cigarette would most likely kill me, which is very
funny or Yeah. Morton died in two thousand one, but

(48:14):
his influence lives on. When his show was canceled in
nineteen eighty nine, a TV reviewer with the Chicago Tribune
wrote that the cancelation quote removes from our lives one
of the most abrasive people ever to appear on television.
But do not think that this represents a move towards
a calmer climb Downey wetted people's appetites for confrontational TV.
There will be someone to take his place. That's a

(48:36):
that's prescient. Yeah. In an opinion column for CNN. Michael
Smerconish makes this point quote. When Fox News launched in
nineteen sixty six, it adopted the talk radio playbook, and
NBC briefly gained viewers by giving Keith Olberman a Downey
like platform for his diet tribes against President George W. Bush.

(48:56):
The model for each was a toned down version of
that which Downey had established. Entertainment masked his news constant conflict,
good guys versus bad guys, and preordained outcomes. But Downey's
influence extended beyond media outlets and should be appreciated, is
more than just another contributing factor to the decline of
America's cultural health. The media paradigm he fathered has taken

(49:18):
a toll on the way in which we are governed.
There has been a noticeable uptick and incivility and polarization
among our leaders in the exact same period in which
the media has moved to the extremes, in part because
of the power that Downey's successors exert over primary voters.
Now In this columns Mrconish sites Brian Rosenwald, a fellow
at the University of Pennsylvania who did his doctoral dissertation

(49:38):
on talk radio. Rosenwald rights Downey's heirs have fostered polarization
through their influence in primary elections. Republican members of Congress
must fear infuriating talk radio and cable news hosts because
media personalities can use their platforms to offset several major advantages,
including significantly greater fundraising and name recognition, held by incumbents

(49:59):
in primary all actions, hosts demand purity from elected officials,
label compromises treason, and glorify Congress Congress's rhetorical bomb throwers
such as Senator Ted Gruz. Yeah, um, it's pretty pretty good.
There's some quotes in this that are talking about like
polarization in Washington that notes that like as late as
the nineteen seventies, the typical member of one party voted

(50:21):
with his colleagues his party members just over sixty percent
of the time, and that those numbers have raised every decade,
and two Democrats voted together of the time Republicans of
the time. Unfortunately, uh, those able to reverse those trends
have ceded the debate to the loudest voices. A Gallop
survey released in January you found that more Republicans regard

(50:42):
themselves as independent forty three. Uh, there's more Americans regard
themselves as independent forty three than Democrat thirty or Republican.
But any ground gained by the nonpartisan ranks continues to
be offset by higher political interest resting at the political extremes.
It's all about passion. As documented by Pew Research Center
this past this past spring, liberals and conservatives exceed moderates

(51:04):
and independence and their levels of political interest, which translates
into voter participation. So it's it's got Most people have
been turned off by this, this hyperpartisanization, but those who
stay in the game just get angrier and angrier at
each other, and it it just makes for an angrier
country and moren Downey Jr. Was certainly the most successful
person on TV doing it before our modern media era

(51:28):
because moly George was kind of a marginal figure. He
was he was influential and o c and influential to
other media figures. But MORETN Danny Junior had a national
show right like because he was everywhere. Um, I knew
who he was, and I was a little kid. I
didn't even really know why I knew who he was
what people knew. Morton Downey Jr. Um, he was kind
of this perfect synthesis, and that's what it took to
really get like this kind of specific kind of right

(51:50):
wing media off the ground was a synthesis of Joe
Pine and Wally George Morton Downey Jr. Was the first
guy to do that. And you know he eventually he
flew too close to the sun and drew a swastika
on his own forehead. But you know, like the Tale
of It, just this in the Tale of It, it
did happen in an air force tom So that's true. Um,

(52:14):
what a dope, What a dope. Yeah, three people I
didn't I don't like very much. Um well, if it's
any consolation, they're all super dead. They are very dead,
two thirds of them because they smoked too much. Bam.
But it's a it's a good thing they didn't do
like irreparable damage to the country. Thankfully. We're sailing right

(52:36):
along and that's a good thing. Like the beginning, Like
the seeds they planted haven't grown at a terrifying fucking
forests of racist Oh yeah no, that never happened. Speaking
of which, I'm gonna open my news app for the
first time since nineteen see what's been happening? Oh, dear Tom,
I have some bad news about the Twin Towers. You

(52:57):
may want to sit down for this one. Damn it?
Did they smoke too many cigarettes too? In a way?
Tom in away, Tom, that that brings us to the
end of our long journey. Thanks, thanks, thanks for sitting
through this with me and a lot of clips. I
now know I have a fuller picture of Morton Downey's Jr.

(53:17):
In my mind. Glad that It's the only goal I've
ever had for this show, which is why this is
our final episode. All right, Tom, what do you gotta
I'm just I'm just just exhausted. Now, I'm just sad.
Now I'm exhausted, and I'm sad. I'm gonna get it.
I'm gonna get a Flaxen Wally George Wig. I'm gonna
get a Wally George Wig. I need to I need

(53:38):
to do something to recharge after this. Maybe I'll watch
hot Rod again or or uh watch Predator to watch
Predator too. You're right with Gary Busey. Thank god. By
the way, Lover punches Morton Downey right in the face.
The best thing about Gary Busey's rolling that is that
Wally George could absolutely have played Gary Busey's character in
that movie. He's playing George in that movie, and fucking

(54:02):
Morton Downey Jr. Is in it too. My god, what
a film. I'm gonna get this Predator because he's on
a merry. I kind of want to rewatch Revenge of
the Nerds three and see what the Danny jan Your
was doing in that ship. I wouldn't. I didn't. I
didn't really enjoy watching it the first time. At least

(54:22):
Predator to has I think the beach if I'm remembering right,
it was on it was in like the Bahamas or something.
I think it's Nerds in Para, Nerds in Paradise, that's right.
I think that's one of the samples. At least Jesus
Christ Revenge of the Nerds. That whole movie is a bastard.
That's it's the Morton Downey of film series could do
what you could do an episode on just the Revenge

(54:44):
of the Nerds Jesus Christ. All right, Well you gotta
plug anything, tom oh? Sure? Um, I have a podcast
network game an employed that I do with my partner,
my podcasting partner, David Bell, also from Cracked, um from Cracked. Yeah,
we all used to work there, we did. Um. You
can check it out gamely not game dot com, Patreon
dot com, slash gamefully Unemployed, where you can check out

(55:06):
our patreon. We got all kinds of cool stuff on their,
like exclusive podcasts and other things that we do with
our patrons. It's it's a lot of funny to check
it out. Else to do, right Aget Colleider and I
write for some more news with your friends Cody and
Katie Robert. Yeah yeah, I mean friends, enemies friend me yeah,
frien ofmies uh, eternal eternal opponents um and also right

(55:28):
for dog um. It's all kinds of that. You find me,
just google me, Google tom Ryman. Find him at his home,
you know, please do Yeah, no, docs me on attack
him in an airport bathroom and draw swastika on his
forehead to improve his career. And for unclear reason, I
really do wonder what was the what was the game
plan there? Morton? How is this going to help? He

(55:51):
was gonna he was gonna make that in like three
months of shows, hunting down the Nazis who beat him up. Yeah,
he had a whole plan. Yeah, he had a whole
pitch dick. God, I wish we'd all just agreed to, like,
see what he was going to do first before I
do want to kind of see where he's going with us.
It's obviously this is all bullshit, but let's see how

(56:12):
long he rides this. Yeah, very funny. All right, Well
that's the episode