March 13, 2019 • 48 mins
In Part Two, Robert is joined again by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to continuing discussing George Lincoln Rockwell.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M what's X in my wise? I'm Robert Evans. How
is that? Intro? Guys actually solidly thumbs up all around
the room. This is a podcast where I talk about
the worst people in all history, can tell you what
you don't know about them. Today is part two of
our epic three partner podcast on George Lincoln Rockwell, the
(00:25):
founder of the idea of neo Nazism, the inventor of
Holocaust denial, and the world's first free speech warrior. My
guest today, Godie Johnson, Katie Stole, how are you doing?
Where's so good? Now? We have a new sponsor who
has not paid us a dime, but who I will
(00:46):
be shilling for. Nonetheless, because Cody, you realized that the
tagline written on the product is hilarious hazel Nut coffee
Mate by Nestley and according to the box, one pump,
one cream, pump on cream nuts, one pump, one cream,
one love. So you heard it here on Behind the
Bastards by Nestley. Coffee Mate, hazel nut and think of
(01:09):
semen one one pump, one a hazel nut fan, neither
of mine. I don't like coffee Mate, but I think
it's funny. I really hope coffee mate had stopped listening
by that point, they check was already in the mail.
Could you not read our one pump one slogan? I
(01:31):
wonder if they use that same slogan for products other
than the hazel nut one pump one. I wonder if
they know the way they did. I mean that one
speaking of far right extremists, that could work as the
as the slogan for the Proud Boys who don't masturbate.
That's because one pump one cream, no pumps, no no
creams scream. Speaking of the Proud Boys, let's talk about
(01:57):
their ideological great grandfather, George Lincoln Rockwell, I'm gonna say upfront,
don't want him. They are going to be a number
of there were slurs in the episode at last episode,
They're going to be a number of slurs specifically directed
towards black people in this episode. I do not say
and will not say the N word, but I will
read a couple of the other slurs that are used,
(02:17):
usually just once, and then I will refer to them
youphemistically thereafter, just so that you understand what's being said,
and so I'm not unduly kind of cleaning up the
ugliness here. So it's kind of a sweet spot. We'll
try to find it, dive into it. Much of George
Lincoln Rockwell's career as America's premiere racist involved him following
in the footsteps of Martin Luther King Jr. And basically
trolling America's premier civil rights icon. On January eighth, nineteen
(02:40):
sixty five, when MLK held a voter registration drive in Selma, Alabama,
George Lincoln Rockwell was there too, in his own words,
cause agitation and run Mr Coon out of town. That
was Rockwell's nickname for Dr King. Will use Mr C
from here on out. He also called him Martin Luther.
You can guess yeah. Quote from Rockwell. Mr C is
(03:04):
a pro and I ran him out of Danville, Virginia,
and I believe I can run him out of Selma.
The only technique is to show these communist type agitators
how ridiculous they are. Now. Rockwell put together a sorry
ridiculous woman, silly rock Will put together a cunning plan
(03:24):
to ruin Dr King's voter registration drive. His first idea
was to try and convince the city fathers to declare
the day of the drive to be inward Day. Oh
my gosh, real creative. He wanted to hang banners across
the entrances of the town that said welcome inwards to
see Day in Selma. Of course he used the full
Slayers in both cases, so it's called both. It was different,
(03:46):
different two in the band. Poor branding. That's poor branding.
And I don't now, I don't know what terrible thing
it is now, I don't know. They're never gonna find
you on on Google that wall Rockwell, Jesus Christ, get
it together. For some reason, the white city fathers of
Selma did not think this was a good idea. So
I just I just have to reiterate here. This guy
(04:06):
is too racist for both the nineteen sixties FBI and
the white city fathers of nineteen sixties Selma, Alabama, the
town that shot black people with fire hoses. That's pretty intense.
They listened to rock when we're like, whoa buddy, Like
we hear you, but like it's not even like don't
(04:26):
say that stuff. Lot, it's like, don't say that, don't
say that stuff. And then she sure like we also,
we're gonna, you know, we're gonna send the letter to
try to convince him to kill himself. We're gonna have
beaten and jailed. Yeah, but that we're like the lawn
or types of racists. Okay. Next, Rockwell suggested creating a
(04:47):
special see Day in Selma menu for restaurants to give
out to JIG integrators. And that's the last time I'll
use that word either when they demanded service. It's painfully uncomfortable.
Not at all the wacky stupid racism of the second
k k K. Remember the second kk Those are the days.
Those scare people, those LARPers, those LARPers. Rockwell was whatever
(05:11):
else not a fucking LARPer. Rockwell was probably the greatest
big in America has ever seen, the patron saint of racism.
Here is part of the menu he wanted local restaurants
to adopt. Is this going to be like if you
have like a viewing party for like Breaking Bad, and
you like do puns on all the food. But yeah,
but it's with racism I sound excited about I'm really not. Okay,
(05:32):
I don't even want to read it, but I'm going to.
And again I will be euphemistically referring to hustlers and cases.
Here the restaurants of the city extended warm welcome to
all sea words, j words in words, apes, baboons, and
any other jungle life seeking to enjoy Communist race mixing
benefits promised by Martin luther S Word. In honor of
the occasion, our chef has lovingly prepared a special menu
of the favorite in word foods. We ask only that
(05:55):
our sword guests refrain from snapping at waiters are nibbling
on other guests while waiting for service. The menu he
prepared included quote hot stuffed deviled Jew, Sammy Davis Junior Special.
He thought Sammy Davis Jr. Was a Jew. I don't,
I don't, I don't know. I don't know, but that
came up a lot. But that's a terrible name. That's
not that's too many words. I mean Sammy Davis Jr.
(06:18):
But the name of Sammy Davis Jr. Like, why do
you it's called Sammy Davis Junior's let's not I don't
want to give up notes on but like, let's not
like armchair racist. That's that's fair. That's fair to improve
on this men, you know. Um. This was not popular
(06:40):
among local business owners either. He also tried to get
local businesses to print up posters to put in the
windows of every business in town, but no one was
willing to do that either. Rockwell also handed out dozens
of A and P. Hayton nanny records. These included such
hit songs as ship Those in Words Back and We's
Non Violent in Words. He hoped that local restaurants and
bars would put them in their juke boxes, but nobody
(07:01):
obliged him in this either. So that's good. It plays
racism rock and roll YEP. Of course he plays racism
rock and roll. George Lincoln Rockwell, he does, Rockwell, I
had to use it. He doesn't deserve it, but I
couldn't deserve No. No, he deserves one thing, and it
(07:22):
comes at the end of this episode. Plenty is so
Rockwell was able to get enough donations to fly Robert Lloyd,
one of his most loyal Stormtroopers, into someone with a
hideously racist ape costume. Rockwell's bull was to get Lloyd
close enough to Dr King to cause a spectacle that
would get him on TV and presumably drum up more
donations for the A and P. Tragically, for the Nazis,
(07:43):
Lloyd was caught by the police before he could find
Dr King. He was arrested. Next, according to the book
for Racing Nation, quote, Rockwell went to the courthouse to
bail Lloyd out and bumped into King, who was attempting
to register blacks to vote. Now my rate, Rockwell blasted
King with all the venom he could muster. He poked
the stem of his corn cob pipe at King's face
and asked him if he was man enough to stand
up non violently and debate him so he could prove
(08:05):
to the world that King was using the local inwards,
not helping them. We got to it, Cody. Wow, they're
doing it. Ah, They're really making it happen. Doctor King
actually agreed to let Rockwell speak at the meeting. He
rescinded the invitation after a completely different racist who actually
(08:27):
hated Rockwell to assaulted him trying to register at a hotel.
When Rockwell was turned away, he demanded entrance to the
church where Dr King was doing his meeting. The police
arrested Rockwell for disorderly conduct. Now that probably sounds like
a disaster, but it was actually totally worthwhile for Rockwell
and for the A and P The briefs face to
face confrontation he had with Dr King became national news
and earned the Nazi Party the attention and donations that
(08:49):
Rockwell craved. Debate me, coward, debate me, to debate me,
you coward, like you got to like awful sides and
then like hey, k kill yourself and the other ones
debate me, and they both mean the same thing to
destroy one. Right, let's s link for a second, just
(09:11):
to cleanse our palace. What an incredible human being Dr
Martin Luther King was and how much he achieved. That's
that's a nice thing to Yeah, like a little break,
mental break here, just like what a nice idea. But
you just changed the world in an incredible way, like
black people couldn't use water fountains, and he galvanized a movement.
And there were a lot of other people involved obviously
who sacrificed and did a lot as well. But like
(09:34):
just a great human being who will be remembered long
after Rockwell has been forgotten. It's been forgotten, beloved. Yeah,
cultural icon, people talk about not better more than any president,
more than any other figure American figure. When Peo put
him on the put him on Lincoln on the five,
but put him on the one to put on the one,
(09:55):
put him on most of the money, put him on
most of the money. A lot of people quote him incorrectly.
The yes they when they talked about free speech and
try to get people to debate. There's a lot Yeah
because also like it's good because like rockwell not maybe
people know about him or much about him, and that's
technically good. But at the same time, it's real bad
that he did. Yeah yeah, yeah, um okay, palate cleanser Okay,
(10:21):
as this want to be American fewer spat racial hatred
and lurid anti Semitic conspiracy theories. The American Jewish community
was far from silent. We're talking about twenty years after
the death camps were shut down. There were Americans in
their thirties and forties who had survived outwits. There were
thousands of Jewish American war veterans who had literally killed
Nazis with machine guns. These people were not about to
(10:43):
let this motherfucking Nazi try his fascist bullshit out in
another country. However, no one could quite agree on precisely
what should be done. Some groups, like the Jewish American
War Veterans Organization, landed solidly on the punch Nazis end
of the scale, and they did quite a bit of that,
but most Jewish people backed a completely different strategy. I'm
(11:03):
going to read a description of the evolution of that
strategy from the book American Future by Frederick Siminelli. Quote.
In the nineteen forties, Dr Solomon Antel Feinberg of the
American Jewish Committee devised a strategy of containment against that
era's most flagrant anti Semite, Gerald L. K. Smith. Feinberg
initially called that strategy dynamic silence or the Silent treatment.
He later renamed it quarantine, a term he believed more
(11:26):
accurately described the process. The quarantine strategy included two key components.
Coordination among major American Jewish community organizations to minimize public
confrontations between an anti Semite and his or her opponents,
in order to deny the anti Semite a dramatic event
that would invite publicity, and the dissemination of information on
the background and tactics of the anti Semite to the
news media, in an attempt to convince the media that
(11:47):
in the absence of a violent confrontation between an anti
Semite and his or her adversaries, there was little newsworthy
in what the anti Semite had to say. The strategy
intended to quote prevent the rabble rouser from becoming a
serious public menace by depriving him of the publicity he
needs to increase his audience. It's a good strategy, solid plan.
Feinberg advocated for this strategy heavily and succeeded in getting
(12:08):
the Jewish community to adopt his plan against Gerald Smith.
It worked splendidly, But in nineteen fifty eight, after Rockwell
created Wolfens in the National Committee to Free America from
Jewish domination, no one was quite sure what to do.
This was a new kind of racist. A trained pr
expert who knew how to work the modern TV and
radio media. Rockwell said in an interview near the end
of his life, quote, when I was in the advertising game,
(12:28):
we use nude women. Now I use the swastika, and
stormtroopers you use what brings them in yep. William Pierce,
one of Rockwell's most prominent stormtroopers and a guy we
will be talking about in Part three, described rockwell strategy
as concentrating quote the activities of his small group under
circumstances especially chosen to provoke violent opposition, anything and everything
(12:49):
to gain mass publicity to become generally recognized as the
opponent of the Jews, so he wanted them to fight him.
This was part of why he decided to turn Wolfens
into the American Nazi Party. He wanted he and his
men to wear swastika's lots of them, specifically because it
was the best way to trigger Jewish people, he believed. Quote.
Upon seeing the swastika, Jews lost their cold, calculating reasoning
(13:11):
abilities and became hysterical, screaming with fear and rage at
the American Nazi Party. This reaction led Jews to unwittingly
aid the movement while moving to stamp out Nazism. They
were forced to give the party free publicity. Some Jews,
particularly Jewish war veterans, obliged Rockwell by flipping out and
trying to crack his fucking Nazi skull, which I certainly
understand solid impulse. There were numerous brawls at various A
(13:34):
and P events, speeches, and protests over the years. Often
the Jewish veterans would wind up tangling with the police,
who tended to surround the smaller number of A and
pmen in order to protect them. Another thing that never
happened again. This worked for a while, but a little
over a year into Rockwell's career as an agent provocateur
that that Fineberg guy, the architect of the quarantine policy,
(13:55):
succeeded in getting the American Jewish Community or a j C,
to back his plan. Now, these guys were not just
saying ignore them and they'll go away. This was not
just being like, oh, just dignorm just dognor. They weren't
just saying that. These guys were activists. Representatives of Jewish
community groups would go to newspaper editors, radio and television
producers before big Nazi events. They would urge the media
not to cover the story. Letters exist to show how
(14:17):
this effort went, and they were always very cordial. The
goal was to convince the paper to stop their coverage.
It was not a threat. The Nazis did claim that
Jewish community groups threatened to boycott newspapers and the like
who reported on Nazis, but there is zero actual evidence
of this ever happening. The Washington Post, for example, broke
the quarantine and suffered no reprisals. In March of nineteen sixty,
Rockwell wrote the Post a letter saying he planned to
(14:38):
speak at the Capital Mall. He invoked the specter of
left wing violence against his totally peaceful demonstration, stating, quote,
some citizens have been threatening us with violence and forcible
suppression of our peaceful right to address our fellow Americans
according to the law. Now this was patent bullshit. Rockwell
absolutely had violent intentions. Immediately after that rally, which turned violent,
he sent a letter out to his supporters and regular
(14:59):
don't saying his goal was to quote, provoke and aggravate
the jew traders beyond endurance. We only knew they would attack,
but we sought their attack. Our activity has been successful
beyond our wildest dreams, and all of it has been
aimed not at education or waking people up, but at
gaining power. And then, and only then can we exterminate
the swarms of Jewish traders and our guest chambers. A
(15:20):
little anger you, I wanna talk about a little story
something that happened to me in December when I was
importantly watching a rally. UH called him to rally, which
what was a response to the me to move members
of Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys to great groups. So,
after their rally, which was cordoned off and heavily protected
(15:41):
by police. Uh they took a very long, circuitous route
back to their cars and were surrounded by a group
of anti fascists. Most of those people yelled, but some
of them through things, including bottles, which eventually prompted the
police to use flash band grenades on the crowd to
disperse them. After this altercation, which was heavily videotaped and photographed,
my cameraman was right behind Joey Gibson and one of
(16:01):
his right hand men as they walked away and caught
a snippet of conversation in which the guy looked to
go Joey and said that could not have gone better.
There is there is. I mean, that's what I'm thinking
the whole time you're reading this, and that is what
they want. And when we talk about how do you
deal with the Proud Boys, or deal with any of them,
you have to keep that in mind. That playing into
(16:22):
their hand. And I do want to say there is
something to be said like there. It's also worth noting
um because this is what's happening today is not entirely
the same as what was happening back then, when there
aren't large groups to confront them. We see what happens
in New York City where they start randomly assault, right, Well,
then there's that there there for protection. Yeah exactly. I'm
not saying anti fascists like street activism is useless. I
(16:45):
am saying this is part of a very old strategy, right,
just understanding, like you're playing into their plan and you
might need to. You might need to because they might
try to beat the ship out of something, but you
have to like keep it in check and have that aware.
Please understand, Yeah, that's where they're and always frame it
like that because then it's like that's actually great that
(17:06):
that is on camera. Yeah, but it's not the only
time that we've seen those sorts that that masks sort
of slip off or like even like the Proud Boys
explicitly say like, yeah, go get into fights, go provoke them.
That's how you up right exactly. Um yeah, it's uh.
I mean Patriot Prayer's model is funk around and find
out right, That's like their their goal is that, and
(17:27):
they want to they want to trigger you, they want
to make you mad so you get upset. It's almost like, um,
like fast, do you care about your feelings? What oh yeah,
oh yes, yes, it is like that. It is like
trying to trying something out and try trying to tie
a couple of things together, trying between a couple of
things like that. It took me a second, and I
like that. Now. For the fourth of July nineteen sixty,
(17:51):
Rockwell plander rally in New York City. This provoked outrage,
which of course earned Rockwell publicity and donations. The quarantine
broke down completely when Rockwell was denied a permit to march.
According to the American Fewer Quote, his cause became the
cause of free speech. His name appeared in newspapers almost daily,
and his appeal made its way through the courts. On
June twenty, nineteen sixty, an enraged mob, including many survivors
(18:12):
of Nazi concentration camps, attacked him, but he was saved
from serious injury by the quick action of the police. Now,
this was widely seen as a disaster by members of
the Jewish community. David mc renolds of The Village Voice
wrote that the violence of the crowd did more to
promote anti Semitism than anything Rockwell could himself could have
possibly said. Now, I don't know if I agree with that,
but it shows how political moderates of the nations. As
(18:33):
Rockwell's free speech case made its way through the court,
coverage continued to roll in even as corn even though
quarantine advocates continued to plead for everyone to just stop
writing about George Lincoln Rockwell. And when an appeal overturned
the band and Rockwell was actually issued his permit, he
never even bothered to pick it up. He'd gotten what
he wanted out of the whole mass publicity and a
shipload of donations for being a free speech warrior. Tony
(18:55):
Lassa Wis was a New York City police officer. He
was the guy who protected Rockwell from an attack during
that June nineteen sixty thing uh, and he wound up
regularly spending some time around them as like being part
of their escort and stuff. Uh. He later recalled seeing
quote two big mail sacks full of letters at the
A and P headquarters after that event. He said, quote
Rockwell needed the publicity to get his contributions in to
(19:17):
get around some of his financial difficulties. Rockwell described how
he randomly picked targets for his rallies once he publicly
announced he was coming the public's fur, as he put it,
would stand on end. Local newspapers, radio and television would
give him just enough publicity to guarantee the delivery of
four or five stacks of mail to his doorstep. Rock
Will said he received a lot of Ada Boy George's
letters with dollar bills folded up inside the envelope. He said,
(19:39):
just the threat of his coming was good for a
couple of grand Literally, what Joey Gibson does literally puts
a donation plea into every indo, every every single thing
about a rally. But I won't talk about Portland anymore
until we get a little bit further right, Okay, Uh,
you know what it is speaking of donations, I guess
not not right. One pump one cream is an ad
(20:05):
for nestlely coffee. Mate, the one pump one cream source
of cream pumps that your hazel nut. Uh, sex is funny.
Here's some fads. We're bad, okay, nazis okay. So Rockwell
(20:33):
was very happy with how that whole rigamarole had gone.
In one of his regular comments, he taunted Feinberg and
the a j C, saying they had quote spent millions
of dollars to spread the word among the Jews to
ignore us, but he claimed their anger in need for
revenge had gotten the best of them. The result is
the lifeblood of a political movement, publicity. This is something
Rockwell wrote about quite a lot. In he came to
(20:54):
the conclusion that quote, the problem of building a political
organization in spite of the enemy is utter mastery of
all means of communicating with the masses is first. The
problem is reaching the masses anyway at all. It does
not matter how you reach them at first, so long
as they come to know you, and the fact that
you were at the opposite pole from those in power.
It's just all It's just so familiar because everybody else
(21:19):
is ripping off George. Yep, a bunch of cheap diet
imitations of George fans that Mr pib of racism. Yeah,
but Mr pibs wish Pipper muster PIB is a better beverage. Agree.
I agree. I'm just talking remission. Yeah, I like that.
(21:42):
But I guess the real Dr Pepper would be George's dad.
Sure would be Pepper Pepper, doct Pepper. I mean, Doc
Rock is such a good name. Could that's our musical.
It's like Cop rock but with doctors and a couple
of hops, probably hot cops. Hot cops for sure. So
(22:04):
while George was busy building the playbook that every other
fascist grifter in history, which shamelessly crib from, Fineberg was
not sitting on his ass. He had supporters write articles
endorsing the content the quarantine strategy and pointing out that
publicity just got Rockwell donations. They stated that quote, the
most effective way of combating the Rockwell menaces to literally
starve him out. Quarantine can be made effective if we
deny him publicity, we deny him money. Gradually he convinced
(22:27):
people of the wisdom of his strategy. There were more fights,
largely with the Jewish war veterans, but by nineteen sixty one,
Finberg had succeeded in drastically reducing the amount of press
coverage that Rockwell received. The quarantine was never total, some
stories always came out, but Fineberg considered success to be
a measure of degree, and the summer of nineteen sixty
one saw Rockwell attract way less media attention than he
(22:48):
had gotten back in nineteen sixty. By the end of
nineteen sixty one, the commander had started to get desperate.
When some members of Congress urged a Department of Justice
investigation into the American Nazi Party, Rockwell saw this as
a huge opportunity. He welcomed the investigation because it would
give him a chance to show up in a full
Nazi uniform and spew his conspiracy theories in the halls
(23:09):
of Congress. Feinberg knew this, and he actually begged the U. S.
Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, not to investigate the American Nazi Party,
and he got his wife. In nineteen sixty two, when
Rockwell applied for a permit to march in Philadelphia, the
local Jewish community initially wanted to lobby to have his
permit denied. Finberg wrote them a letter begging them not
to interfere with rockwell speech. Quote, you risk Rockwell. Rockwell's
(23:31):
getting civil Libertarians support all the way to the Supreme
Court and the publicity and attendant thereon. Without quarantine, any
anti Semite could become a national figure in short time.
He need only be dramatic and have plenty of opposition
here too. Finberg succeeded. Rockwell got to give his speech
and no one cared. He did not make the news
from that point on, with some occasional failures and lapses
(23:52):
the quarantine against George Lincoln, Rockwell held. This prompted him
to veer towards the only reliable income stream left him,
the college lectureshires. From nineteen sixty three on, this was
his only consistent source of income. He never failed to
draw a sizeable crowd. Much of the media attention he
received for the rest of his life was for the
protests and fights that occurred outside these events. Now, Feinberg
(24:12):
did not worry as much about Rockwell's campus speeches, mainly
because he just didn't think college kids were dumb enough
to fall for the Nazi stick. This proved to be true.
College lectures were good for money, but Rockwell himself knew
that they would never get him what he wanted. He
wrote quote, you can't convert people's attitudes by lecturing and reasoning.
Attitudes can only be changed through emotional engineering. That is
the key thing. It doesn't matter what the emotion is, love, fear, hatred.
(24:37):
As long as there is an emotion in a person,
I can change him. When I agitate in uniform, I
want people to hate me. I want them emotionally worked up.
Smart man. Yep, smart smart man. Hate him, hate him,
smart guy. I'm not a fan. Smart not a fan.
And so as the nineteen sixties went on, Rockwell attempted
(24:59):
a variety of garish and bizarre stunts. He did a
cross country road trip in a converted Volkswagen he called
the hate Bus, giving speeches and harassing civil rights advocates
like the freedom writers. I gotta want to you describe
this bucket bus. Want you describe this fucking hate bus.
I mean it's it's it's hate bus several several times.
(25:20):
It's your classic VW bus. As stated that you would
associate with a hippie, a free loving protel, a bunch
of surf bums, and and then you you look closer.
I mean it says we hate race mixing. It's right there,
we do hate. What a bad bus? What a bad
what a terrible bust. It's terrible bus. You know. He
(25:42):
also had a racist dog that escaped at one point,
a racist dog. Wells when the dog was when the
dog like escaped, he tried to play it up as like, well,
now some Jewish family like has a dog and they
don't even know it's racist. But it's like dude, that
dog's not racist. Dog just didn't want to live with Nazis.
The dog was like looking for his freedom. Yeah. I
(26:02):
think it's really funny that the dog's name was gas Chamber.
Is that true? Yeah, that's true. No, I mean not
after he found a new family. Your gas Chamber hate
it do not like unsubscribed to everything you've said so far,
we're about to say about that hate bus, Joddy, I
(26:23):
think it's funny, uh that the hate bus well a
hate isn't quotes Yeah, yes, quote hate bus um, but
it says several times Lincoln Rockwell's hate bus. Yeah, he
wanted to make sure that you knew it's his hate bus,
not all the other hate bus. Lincoln Rockwell hate branding.
There's a lot going on in that hate bus. Yeah,
(26:43):
real fun time. Should he use g L R YEA.
In nineteen six, the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party held elections
for three representatives. They attempted to seat the three women
who won during the Roke Hall for that year's opening
session of Congress. It was an act of protest, basically
protesting the fact that like there isn't good Black representation
in Congress. We're gonna elect our own leaders, and we're
going to try to send him in Congress, and you
(27:04):
know they'll get kicked out, but it'll get it was.
It was a smart idea for a protest. It generated
a lot of publicity. Rockwell attempted to suckle some of
that publicity for himself by having two of his men,
including that guy Lloyd with the guerrilla suit, show up
to watch the proceedings. Lloyd managed to find an empty
room and changed into his incredibly racist costume. Yeah, there's
a picture. It's from a cover of Stormtrooper magazine where
(27:27):
this was written about. I gotta give this one to
Cody since I view the bust Katie. It's a smaller image,
but it's ghastly right. That is that is black face? Yeah,
I when I first read it was like, oh my god.
The headline though, oh no, the US Nazi in black face,
(27:49):
ridiculous Mississippi n words in Congress? Is the is the title?
It's it's the title of the article. It's a title
the article in Stormtrooper magazine and Stormtrooper magazine. I know
it's shocking to find racism and Stormtrooper magazine. D Yeah,
that'll be up on the site. Behind the bastards dot
(28:11):
com because the slur is pretty small. It's a small image,
but it's it's there. It's it's there. It's something that happened,
um So, Lloyd sprinted from his changing room directly into
the halls of Congress. I'm gonna read a quote from
four Race and Nation. Lloyd raced out of the room
and down the hall to the exclusive stairway that only
members of Congress use. He bolted up the stairs to
the lobby level, past two slouching policemen. As he knewed
(28:33):
the chamber entrance. A black doorkeeper spott at him and
moved to black his path, but Lloyd, running at top speed,
slammed a shoulder into the man, went through the door
and jumped into the well of the house. Donning his
stovepipe hat, he yelled, I'm not gonna use He yelled
this in like a racist diction, trying to like I'm
the Mississippi delegation. I demand to be seated. Members of
(28:53):
the House were stunned by the intrusions. Total silence filled
the room as Lloyd jumped and danced, making unintelligible monkey
noises sense legitimately crazy sound. I mean he was a
mentally ill man. Lloyd was a mentally ill man that
Rockwell used to do stunts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still yeah,
the thing that happened, that's the thing that happened. I'm
(29:14):
not getting into it in this because there's just so
much to cover. But the book for Racing Nation is
a good job of talking about the kind of people
who became Rockwell Stormtroopers. And they were all pretty broken
into uh not all of whom would stay Nazis their
whole lives. Yeah. Uh. The event was considered such a
propagandicoo that a picture of Lloyd made the next month's
cover of Stormtrooper magazine, which we just looked at it.
(29:34):
Stunts like these succeeded in drawing up some publicity and
some donations, but the American public short attention span ensured
their interest inevitably faded with time. Rockwell continuously searched for
a way to get people emotionally worked up. The next year,
nineteen sixty six, was a time of great unrest in
the United States. There were numerous riots across the East Coast.
Near the end of that year. In Chicago, the Housing
(29:55):
Authority made the decision to try and relieve some of
the overcrowding in their ghetto by expanding public housing to
some of the less populated parts of the city. However,
the less populated parts of the city were white. These
people were infuriated at the idea of maybe living close
to black people. Martin Luther King Jr. Showed up to
try and help the people make the world a better
place to do the things that Martin Luther King Jr. Did,
(30:17):
those classic, classic and okay things, and so Rockwell showed
up as well to try and stoke the fires of
racial resentment for power and profit. He gave a speech
at Marquette Park where he said, quote, you're working every
day to pay taxes to breed little black bastards. You're
subsidizing negro mothers who produced this little black scum for pay,
and then when they don't have any place to live,
(30:37):
they want to come and take your house and neighborhood. Yep.
Notice he did not say the N word there, He
did not use a racial slur there. Hey, this is
good for him and for him, this is part of
a tactic that works incredibly well. Now, this all came
in the middle of the schism within the American Nation
Nazi party. Rockwell had come up with a brilliant slogan,
something he thought would really take off among the American public.
(31:01):
You want, I guess what his two words slogan was
that he invented a best white power what. Yeah, he
invented white power upsetting real innovator. He's done so many,
did so many of these things. He's the guys form.
Oh like, invented neo Nazism, Holocaust denial, trolling colleges for
(31:32):
free speech purposes to raise donations, and white powers and
we're not done such a big legacy. Are you going
to add to the list? Did he start saying like
it's okay to be white and like painting that on
like college campuses too? Not quite? Not quite? This is
the seed? Yeah? Man? Did he sell brain bills? He
(31:57):
would have been selling brainforce if he could. Absolutely was
the capsules lead and lyzi Yeah that soy and oh god,
speaking of brain pills, although that's actually one of my
hardlines for advertising, as I won't sell brain, I'll sell
a lot of other kinds of pills because I love pills,
(32:19):
not brain. To understand, it's adds time products services, one pump.
We are back When we last left off, Rockwell had
(32:40):
invented a slogan called white power and he was flirting
with what with the author of Flaration Nation calls denazification
of the American Nazi Party. Would you say the notification
or demonication down? So there were two. But yeah, Brockwell's
side was basically like, we need to be a little
bit less explicit about the Nazi stuff because that's not
getting votes, and we need to pcus more on white
(33:00):
identity and getting white people behind. There also something we
see today. Yeah yeah, but wait I thought that. But okay,
but according to Jordan's B. Peterson, a doctor, a doctor, uh,
the right didn't start playing identity politics until very recently
in response to the left. Yeah, well, I got my
first question with that is was nineteen sixty six recently?
(33:23):
No really, not according as a while ago. Fascinating. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah,
so that's interesting. I'm confused. And it's possible he's disingenuous
and playing from the same handbook as the fewer of
the American Nazi Party. No, no, not Dr Jordan B. Peterson.
I suppose it's possible, but it's not probable. It's not probable,
(33:46):
not probable. Speaking of not probable George Lincoln Rockwell's incredible
success in Chicago, so he had T shirts and placards
printed up with the phrase white power on them. He
worked the phrase into his speeches in Chicago, marking the
first time the white power slogan was ever used. One
of his stormtroopers, John Padler, also coined the phrase the
(34:08):
color of your skin is your uniform, which, if you
spend a lot of time listening to Nazis talk about
their apocalyptic race war fantasies, that line comes up all
of the goddamn time to O G S. Yeah, goat
the goat. Yeah, he's he is the goat of American racism.
(34:28):
He's definitely earned that. He's earned that. We're not being
the wote WoT the wote we do we could do
go and keep it, but like gross of all time,
grossest of all time, the grossest of all time, There
we go, There we go. I don't know, I could
probably do better, but I'm on the gross old asshole. Yeah, time,
(34:55):
we'll figure it out. We'll figure out. Chicago marked the
first and only time Rockwell and his Nazis saw mainstream
penetration for their rhetoric, stoking the fires of white fear
and resentment of black people worked way better than anti
Semitic conspiracy theories. On August sixth, nineteen sixty six, Martin
Luther King Jr. Led a group of marchers through Gauge Park.
He was met by an enormous crowd of counter protesters,
(35:16):
organized and radicalized by George Lincoln Rockwell. They numbered more
than twenty five hundred. The crowd carried placards and banners
and blasted with Rockwell quotes like joined the white rebellion,
and we worked hard for what we got. Thousands of
furious voices shouted white power at King and his comrades.
They threw things, they assaulted them. It was a violent
(35:37):
attack on doctor Martin Luther King and his marchers. One
of King's comrades at the time, a guy named Andrew Young,
later recalled quote, the violence in the South always came
from a rabbel element. But these were women and children
and husbands and wives coming out of their homes and
becoming a mob, and in some ways it was far
more frightening. Doctor King himself was shocked at the ferocity
(35:57):
of the violence he and his marchers faced in Chicago,
saying quote, I've never seen anything like it. I've been
in many demonstrations all across the South, and I have
never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama mobs as hostile
in hate field. It was a huge victory for Rockwell.
White power took up as a concept and as a slogan,
and still remains popular among shitty races today. Rockwell did
(36:19):
not succeed in converting the whites of chicagoan to Nazis,
but he made powerful inroads into radicalizing them. The Chicago
open housing protests would prove to be the high water
mark of George Lincoln Rockwell's career. Almost exactly one year later,
on August nineteen sixty seven, George Lincoln Rockwell rolled down
to a laundromat in Arlington, Virginia to do a load
of laundry. He forgot his bleach, and as he headed
(36:41):
out to his car to go get it, two shots
were fired into the window of his nineteen sixty eight Chevy.
He fell out and landed face up in the parking lot,
dead from a gunshot wound to the heart at age
forty nine. The killer was not an anti Nazi activist
or an aggrieved Jewish veteran or anyone like that. It
was John Padler, former US Marie and one of Rockwell's
longest serving stormtroopers. The gun used, appropriately enough, was a
(37:05):
German Mauser piston knats again to kill the Nazi Wow.
Then Peddler and Rockwell had a somewhat contentious history. Padler
quit and rejoined the party a few times and was
distrusted by many of the movement because he was a
Greek and thus not white enough, including to some of
the Nazis. The scentages off bro Sorry. He was also
(37:27):
considered a suspected Marxist for reasons that are unclear to me.
They're always suspected Marxists. That was the best they got.
Rockwell had also recently pushed him out of the A
and p uh and so it was yeah. Padler was
convicted of murder in the first degree. Rockwell's funeral was
as controversial as his life had been. As a veteran,
he was entitled to a military funeral at a state cemetery,
(37:48):
but the military would not allow his followers to wear
Nazi uniforms or fly Nazi flags at a cemetery filled
with American war dead, many of whom had died fighting
the Nazis. Smart move smart moves. I feel like, once
you become a Nazi, you've just invalidated your time fighting Nazis.
So could not I could have done without it. But
(38:14):
at least there are no Nazi flags. Well the Nazis.
The Nazis tried, they they the Nazis with Rockwell's body
tried to show up and force their way in Regalia,
which led to a six hour standoffs of Rockwell's hearse
and military police. Eventually, the Nazis backed down and cremated
Rockwell instead. Okay, there's a not entirely heartbreaking coda to this,
(38:40):
although I guess Nazi getting shots not that bad either.
Petler got out of prison. He was only in there
for twenty some odd years, like twenty two years, and
his story is the closest thing to uplifting. You're going
to get out of this whole mess. His son actually
wrote the afterword for the book for Race and Nation.
It is a heartbreaking and compassionate essay well worth reading,
and it he talks about his father's like abusive childhood,
(39:01):
the things that a lot of the kids who became
Nazis endured, the things Rockwell had endured as a child,
and like, how these broken people came to such a
hateful It's a very insightful and compassionate look by someone
who you know, grew up with a dad who had
done all this stuff. Um. And In the essay, Patler's
son relates this story about his father from after he
(39:23):
got out of prison. Quote, one night in Richmond, Virginia,
after leaving a restaurant, my father stood silently by my car,
with his eyes frozen on the ground. In a somber tone,
he said, I should have been with them with who
I asked, I should have been with Dr King and
the civil rights people back then. He answered, they were
truly my people, not those Nazis. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking. Yeah,
(39:44):
that gave me. Yeah. For his part, George Lincoln Rockwell
did not leave much behind. His estate was just two
d and fifty seven dollars in cash, a corn cob pipe,
and a bunch of racist pamphlets. But Rockwell's real legacy
would prove to be much more extensive and much deadlier
than any fortune could ever have been. And that's what
we will be talking about in Part three of this podcast.
The sixty year long spree of murders, bombings, and hatred
(40:06):
that all sprawn sprung spawned from the mental loins of
George Lincoln Rockwell. You could say for him it was
one pump a whole lot of cream. Does not stop
from that mainstream penetration. Penetration. Yea, God, that word just
(40:28):
makes me so happy. Uh So, I mean, what do
you guys think about George Lincoln Rockwell? Not a fan,
not a fan. It is astounding to hear all laid
out like this and see how directly he is responsible. Yeah,
every every single time I come on this show, he's like,
by the way, here's history, but now his ghost is thrilled. Yea,
(40:51):
and so many things, many of them. Yeah. What do
you think he would be? He wouldn't be. Would he
be a Republican? Would he be a liberal because liberals
are the party of anti He would not be for
pro Israel? I think he Yeah, I really have trouble
telling with rock Wall. He'd be an intellectual dark webber.
(41:14):
I think that I think he would not be. I
think he would be kind of like Peterson, not explicitly political,
and that he wouldn't advocate for a party directly. I
think he would be more about trying to get an
ideology across that there were that works better now. Um, yeah,
he'd be he did, playing to the resentments and grievances
and stuff and sort of lifting up all the like
like the logical next step of like the white power stuff.
(41:38):
He'd be talking about, like white identity. He'd be a
white identity person like like a moll in you, but
more explicit Nazi stuff. Maybe. I don't know, because I
think he he really wanted he really wanted mainstream appeal,
and his his goal from the beginning, if you remember
from the episode one, was to unite conservatives. So I
think he would be explicitly political. I think he would
(41:58):
be less explicitly racist. I don't even know if he
came out around today, if he would be explicitly anti Semitic, right,
he plays that doesn't play like you have some tea
party faction within the party. He'd maybe go into politics
and think there's a good chance he'd have been elected.
Yeah I did, right, I mean, look, we've got King,
we got good speaker. He was Karissman speaker, handsome guy, guy, smart,
(42:19):
very smart, good at branding. Yeah. Um, and yeah, he'd
played he'd played it that and he wouldn't be yeah
as explicitly like, Yeah, I have a lot of questions
about what rock Wall would be if he were alive today,
But one thing I know for sure is that he
would have worked with Roger Stone. Yeah, they would. They
(42:40):
would have plans, They would have so many plans. What
you did he die again? I think it was sixty seven, right, yeah? Seven.
I think he would have um uh played up stuff
with like Milo or because Milo is technically he's technically
he's Jewish, right, Yeah, I think so like like despot
him probably. I think he probably think the thing that
(43:02):
amazed him that would have made him despise Milo was
Milo's Milo's attitude never had a chance of getting mainstream
acceptance because he's just too off putting and he doesn't care.
He like, he's very noncommittal to everything and yeah, like
kind of he's a chaos agent or whatever. Milo doesn't
believe in ship exactly. Rockwell believed he wouldn't have gone
through the ship that he did because he suffered for right, right,
(43:23):
he figured out that his pain, Yeah, his pain drove
him to Yeah, so I think he's uh, and I
don't think I think he would have been smarter than
a guy like Richard Spencer, because I don't think Richard
Spencer was very cunning. No, he didn't play it well.
He I mean, he got the platform, he got that
article about him. He was dapper, but he didn't he
didn't play it well after that, didn't play it well after.
(43:44):
Milo doesn't believe in anything. Milo does not believe in
anything except for having money. Um. And I don't think
Rockwell would have been I think he might have used
him at something, not like aligned with him, but just
sort of like using the movement and the drive. I
think Rockwell would have really gotten along with a guy
like Steve Bannon, was a clever political operator who believes
the ship out of things y um. And to be honest,
(44:04):
that's a more likely pairing than him and Roger Stone
because Roger isn't leaving ship either. I would have like
Donald Trump, Yeah, he probably would have. He probably would
have or he'd be president. He just he just would
have been the president now because they're playing, they're playing.
(44:25):
He didn't know. He didn't dodge two of them because
he got shot to death. It's all that white, the resentment,
grieving stuff and rock Will seems seems to know how
to do it and to do it on purpose, whereas
like Trump sort of like fell into it because he
just happens to be like a in the last year
of his life is when he really figured Outland And
I'm like, oh, yeah, exactly, that's that's my through line.
(44:47):
That's the thing that everybody yeah that he can get.
Steve Sailor, he's a he's like a kind of like
white nationalists kind of figure. He writes on v dare
a lot and stuff. Um. The referred to as this
Sailor strategy is an article he came out with like
two thousand five or something like that, and it literally
lays out like, here's what Republicans need to do. They
need to play to white entity politics, need to get
(45:08):
these votes. He basically lays out like and the anti immigration,
He blays out everything in Donald Trump's platform basically and
his whole ideology. Um, and it's just like, yeah, here's
what you gotta do, um uh, just to bring back
real quick. Uh. At one point, h Jordan P. Peterson,
who hates identity politics, shared an article by Steve Saylor,
who analyzed a study about diversity that cut out half
(45:31):
of the article, uh, and study that actually said diversity
is good in the long run. Well, but that sounds
like Jordan Peterson's uh, intellectually dishonest, and that can't be
the case. It can't be the case. There's there's another,
but it's not probable. If it's not probable, no, no
(45:54):
more cum jokes. It's time for plugs of the plug bowls.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna plug now. As as I
mentioned in part one, this was originally supposed to be
part of a five part audio book about where all
this fucking right wing terrorism comes from, because it's a
weird history, and like we didn't even get into Christian identity,
which rock Wall ties into, which is also tied into
(46:16):
Robert Bowers, the Trio Left synagogue shooting, a bunch of others.
All of this stuff you want it all laid out
is going to be on my audio book, The War
on Everyone, which I am backing right now on go
fund me. So go to go fund me search for
The War on Everyone. Drop a couple of bucks if
you've got them. I will put out the audio book
and I will use the money to report on fascism
and and possibly conflict abroad depending on how much we
(46:40):
get it. It's doing great so far. Also want to
thank everyone who's donated so far prior to this episode landing.
Uh it's it's been way better than I expected. And
I'm blown away and and and driven to tears by
the the generosity of my fans. So thank you all
so much. I promised to never sell brain pills. Um,
it's good promise to make. I will sell other pills
(47:02):
because I love pills love, just not some great pills.
Just not Brainforest plus. Yeah yeah, not even Brainforest like
like I don't know, maybe maybe maybe. Um. You can
check us out on online as well at our Patreon,
Patreon dot com, slash Somewhere News that's YouTube show that
(47:23):
we do, and then we also have UM a weekly
podcast where we talk about a lot of bad guys,
a lot of current and news. You know, yeah, the
news of the day, the news of the week, uh,
the news of the year, um, the news of our
flaying nightmare world. UM. So yeah, Google Google some more
news and even more news. It's all around the place.
On Twitter. Um, I'm Dr Mr Cody on Twitter dot
(47:45):
com as well. Katie Katie Stole donate to some more
news Patreon one. We're on the edge of something great
here where we're almost through the looking glass. We're straddling
the looking glass. I'm I right okay on Twitter and again.
(48:05):
My my go fund me is uh the War on Everyone,
So check that out. Check out some more news Patreon. Uh.
Go to the fucking T shirts public, God, so many plugs.
I'm so exhausted. Behind the Bastards see public. We have
a website, Behind the Bastards dot com. You can find
us on at bastards pod U, Instagram, and Twitter. I
(48:27):
love about you. D
M what's X in my wise? I'm Robert Evans. How
is that? Intro? Guys actually solidly thumbs up all around
the room. This is a podcast where I talk about
the worst people in all history, can tell you what
you don't know about them. Today is part two of
our epic three partner podcast on George Lincoln Rockwell, the
(00:25):
founder of the idea of neo Nazism, the inventor of
Holocaust denial, and the world's first free speech warrior. My
guest today, Godie Johnson, Katie Stole, how are you doing?
Where's so good? Now? We have a new sponsor who
has not paid us a dime, but who I will
(00:46):
be shilling for. Nonetheless, because Cody, you realized that the
tagline written on the product is hilarious hazel Nut coffee
Mate by Nestley and according to the box, one pump,
one cream, pump on cream nuts, one pump, one cream,
one love. So you heard it here on Behind the
Bastards by Nestley. Coffee Mate, hazel nut and think of
(01:09):
semen one one pump, one a hazel nut fan, neither
of mine. I don't like coffee Mate, but I think
it's funny. I really hope coffee mate had stopped listening
by that point, they check was already in the mail.
Could you not read our one pump one slogan? I
(01:31):
wonder if they use that same slogan for products other
than the hazel nut one pump one. I wonder if
they know the way they did. I mean that one
speaking of far right extremists, that could work as the
as the slogan for the Proud Boys who don't masturbate.
That's because one pump one cream, no pumps, no no
creams scream. Speaking of the Proud Boys, let's talk about
(01:57):
their ideological great grandfather, George Lincoln Rockwell, I'm gonna say upfront,
don't want him. They are going to be a number
of there were slurs in the episode at last episode,
They're going to be a number of slurs specifically directed
towards black people in this episode. I do not say
and will not say the N word, but I will
read a couple of the other slurs that are used,
(02:17):
usually just once, and then I will refer to them
youphemistically thereafter, just so that you understand what's being said,
and so I'm not unduly kind of cleaning up the
ugliness here. So it's kind of a sweet spot. We'll
try to find it, dive into it. Much of George
Lincoln Rockwell's career as America's premiere racist involved him following
in the footsteps of Martin Luther King Jr. And basically
trolling America's premier civil rights icon. On January eighth, nineteen
(02:40):
sixty five, when MLK held a voter registration drive in Selma, Alabama,
George Lincoln Rockwell was there too, in his own words,
cause agitation and run Mr Coon out of town. That
was Rockwell's nickname for Dr King. Will use Mr C
from here on out. He also called him Martin Luther.
You can guess yeah. Quote from Rockwell. Mr C is
(03:04):
a pro and I ran him out of Danville, Virginia,
and I believe I can run him out of Selma.
The only technique is to show these communist type agitators
how ridiculous they are. Now. Rockwell put together a sorry
ridiculous woman, silly rock Will put together a cunning plan
(03:24):
to ruin Dr King's voter registration drive. His first idea
was to try and convince the city fathers to declare
the day of the drive to be inward Day. Oh
my gosh, real creative. He wanted to hang banners across
the entrances of the town that said welcome inwards to
see Day in Selma. Of course he used the full
Slayers in both cases, so it's called both. It was different,
(03:46):
different two in the band. Poor branding. That's poor branding.
And I don't now, I don't know what terrible thing
it is now, I don't know. They're never gonna find
you on on Google that wall Rockwell, Jesus Christ, get
it together. For some reason, the white city fathers of
Selma did not think this was a good idea. So
I just I just have to reiterate here. This guy
(04:06):
is too racist for both the nineteen sixties FBI and
the white city fathers of nineteen sixties Selma, Alabama, the
town that shot black people with fire hoses. That's pretty intense.
They listened to rock when we're like, whoa buddy, Like
we hear you, but like it's not even like don't
(04:26):
say that stuff. Lot, it's like, don't say that, don't
say that stuff. And then she sure like we also,
we're gonna, you know, we're gonna send the letter to
try to convince him to kill himself. We're gonna have
beaten and jailed. Yeah, but that we're like the lawn
or types of racists. Okay. Next, Rockwell suggested creating a
(04:47):
special see Day in Selma menu for restaurants to give
out to JIG integrators. And that's the last time I'll
use that word either when they demanded service. It's painfully uncomfortable.
Not at all the wacky stupid racism of the second
k k K. Remember the second kk Those are the days.
Those scare people, those LARPers, those LARPers. Rockwell was whatever
(05:11):
else not a fucking LARPer. Rockwell was probably the greatest
big in America has ever seen, the patron saint of racism.
Here is part of the menu he wanted local restaurants
to adopt. Is this going to be like if you
have like a viewing party for like Breaking Bad, and
you like do puns on all the food. But yeah,
but it's with racism I sound excited about I'm really not. Okay,
(05:32):
I don't even want to read it, but I'm going to.
And again I will be euphemistically referring to hustlers and cases.
Here the restaurants of the city extended warm welcome to
all sea words, j words in words, apes, baboons, and
any other jungle life seeking to enjoy Communist race mixing
benefits promised by Martin luther S Word. In honor of
the occasion, our chef has lovingly prepared a special menu
of the favorite in word foods. We ask only that
(05:55):
our sword guests refrain from snapping at waiters are nibbling
on other guests while waiting for service. The menu he
prepared included quote hot stuffed deviled Jew, Sammy Davis Junior Special.
He thought Sammy Davis Jr. Was a Jew. I don't,
I don't, I don't know. I don't know, but that
came up a lot. But that's a terrible name. That's
not that's too many words. I mean Sammy Davis Jr.
(06:18):
But the name of Sammy Davis Jr. Like, why do
you it's called Sammy Davis Junior's let's not I don't
want to give up notes on but like, let's not
like armchair racist. That's that's fair. That's fair to improve
on this men, you know. Um. This was not popular
(06:40):
among local business owners either. He also tried to get
local businesses to print up posters to put in the
windows of every business in town, but no one was
willing to do that either. Rockwell also handed out dozens
of A and P. Hayton nanny records. These included such
hit songs as ship Those in Words Back and We's
Non Violent in Words. He hoped that local restaurants and
bars would put them in their juke boxes, but nobody
(07:01):
obliged him in this either. So that's good. It plays
racism rock and roll YEP. Of course he plays racism
rock and roll. George Lincoln Rockwell, he does, Rockwell, I
had to use it. He doesn't deserve it, but I
couldn't deserve No. No, he deserves one thing, and it
(07:22):
comes at the end of this episode. Plenty is so
Rockwell was able to get enough donations to fly Robert Lloyd,
one of his most loyal Stormtroopers, into someone with a
hideously racist ape costume. Rockwell's bull was to get Lloyd
close enough to Dr King to cause a spectacle that
would get him on TV and presumably drum up more
donations for the A and P. Tragically, for the Nazis,
(07:43):
Lloyd was caught by the police before he could find
Dr King. He was arrested. Next, according to the book
for Racing Nation, quote, Rockwell went to the courthouse to
bail Lloyd out and bumped into King, who was attempting
to register blacks to vote. Now my rate, Rockwell blasted
King with all the venom he could muster. He poked
the stem of his corn cob pipe at King's face
and asked him if he was man enough to stand
up non violently and debate him so he could prove
(08:05):
to the world that King was using the local inwards,
not helping them. We got to it, Cody. Wow, they're
doing it. Ah, They're really making it happen. Doctor King
actually agreed to let Rockwell speak at the meeting. He
rescinded the invitation after a completely different racist who actually
(08:27):
hated Rockwell to assaulted him trying to register at a hotel.
When Rockwell was turned away, he demanded entrance to the
church where Dr King was doing his meeting. The police
arrested Rockwell for disorderly conduct. Now that probably sounds like
a disaster, but it was actually totally worthwhile for Rockwell
and for the A and P The briefs face to
face confrontation he had with Dr King became national news
and earned the Nazi Party the attention and donations that
(08:49):
Rockwell craved. Debate me, coward, debate me, to debate me,
you coward, like you got to like awful sides and
then like hey, k kill yourself and the other ones
debate me, and they both mean the same thing to
destroy one. Right, let's s link for a second, just
(09:11):
to cleanse our palace. What an incredible human being Dr
Martin Luther King was and how much he achieved. That's
that's a nice thing to Yeah, like a little break,
mental break here, just like what a nice idea. But
you just changed the world in an incredible way, like
black people couldn't use water fountains, and he galvanized a movement.
And there were a lot of other people involved obviously
who sacrificed and did a lot as well. But like
(09:34):
just a great human being who will be remembered long
after Rockwell has been forgotten. It's been forgotten, beloved. Yeah,
cultural icon, people talk about not better more than any president,
more than any other figure American figure. When Peo put
him on the put him on Lincoln on the five,
but put him on the one to put on the one,
(09:55):
put him on most of the money, put him on
most of the money. A lot of people quote him incorrectly.
The yes they when they talked about free speech and
try to get people to debate. There's a lot Yeah
because also like it's good because like rockwell not maybe
people know about him or much about him, and that's
technically good. But at the same time, it's real bad
that he did. Yeah yeah, yeah, um okay, palate cleanser Okay,
(10:21):
as this want to be American fewer spat racial hatred
and lurid anti Semitic conspiracy theories. The American Jewish community
was far from silent. We're talking about twenty years after
the death camps were shut down. There were Americans in
their thirties and forties who had survived outwits. There were
thousands of Jewish American war veterans who had literally killed
Nazis with machine guns. These people were not about to
(10:43):
let this motherfucking Nazi try his fascist bullshit out in
another country. However, no one could quite agree on precisely
what should be done. Some groups, like the Jewish American
War Veterans Organization, landed solidly on the punch Nazis end
of the scale, and they did quite a bit of that,
but most Jewish people backed a completely different strategy. I'm
(11:03):
going to read a description of the evolution of that
strategy from the book American Future by Frederick Siminelli. Quote.
In the nineteen forties, Dr Solomon Antel Feinberg of the
American Jewish Committee devised a strategy of containment against that
era's most flagrant anti Semite, Gerald L. K. Smith. Feinberg
initially called that strategy dynamic silence or the Silent treatment.
He later renamed it quarantine, a term he believed more
(11:26):
accurately described the process. The quarantine strategy included two key components.
Coordination among major American Jewish community organizations to minimize public
confrontations between an anti Semite and his or her opponents,
in order to deny the anti Semite a dramatic event
that would invite publicity, and the dissemination of information on
the background and tactics of the anti Semite to the
news media, in an attempt to convince the media that
(11:47):
in the absence of a violent confrontation between an anti
Semite and his or her adversaries, there was little newsworthy
in what the anti Semite had to say. The strategy
intended to quote prevent the rabble rouser from becoming a
serious public menace by depriving him of the publicity he
needs to increase his audience. It's a good strategy, solid plan.
Feinberg advocated for this strategy heavily and succeeded in getting
(12:08):
the Jewish community to adopt his plan against Gerald Smith.
It worked splendidly, But in nineteen fifty eight, after Rockwell
created Wolfens in the National Committee to Free America from
Jewish domination, no one was quite sure what to do.
This was a new kind of racist. A trained pr
expert who knew how to work the modern TV and
radio media. Rockwell said in an interview near the end
of his life, quote, when I was in the advertising game,
(12:28):
we use nude women. Now I use the swastika, and
stormtroopers you use what brings them in yep. William Pierce,
one of Rockwell's most prominent stormtroopers and a guy we
will be talking about in Part three, described rockwell strategy
as concentrating quote the activities of his small group under
circumstances especially chosen to provoke violent opposition, anything and everything
(12:49):
to gain mass publicity to become generally recognized as the
opponent of the Jews, so he wanted them to fight him.
This was part of why he decided to turn Wolfens
into the American Nazi Party. He wanted he and his
men to wear swastika's lots of them, specifically because it
was the best way to trigger Jewish people, he believed. Quote.
Upon seeing the swastika, Jews lost their cold, calculating reasoning
(13:11):
abilities and became hysterical, screaming with fear and rage at
the American Nazi Party. This reaction led Jews to unwittingly
aid the movement while moving to stamp out Nazism. They
were forced to give the party free publicity. Some Jews,
particularly Jewish war veterans, obliged Rockwell by flipping out and
trying to crack his fucking Nazi skull, which I certainly
understand solid impulse. There were numerous brawls at various A
(13:34):
and P events, speeches, and protests over the years. Often
the Jewish veterans would wind up tangling with the police,
who tended to surround the smaller number of A and
pmen in order to protect them. Another thing that never
happened again. This worked for a while, but a little
over a year into Rockwell's career as an agent provocateur
that that Fineberg guy, the architect of the quarantine policy,
(13:55):
succeeded in getting the American Jewish Community or a j C,
to back his plan. Now, these guys were not just
saying ignore them and they'll go away. This was not
just being like, oh, just dignorm just dognor. They weren't
just saying that. These guys were activists. Representatives of Jewish
community groups would go to newspaper editors, radio and television
producers before big Nazi events. They would urge the media
not to cover the story. Letters exist to show how
(14:17):
this effort went, and they were always very cordial. The
goal was to convince the paper to stop their coverage.
It was not a threat. The Nazis did claim that
Jewish community groups threatened to boycott newspapers and the like
who reported on Nazis, but there is zero actual evidence
of this ever happening. The Washington Post, for example, broke
the quarantine and suffered no reprisals. In March of nineteen sixty,
Rockwell wrote the Post a letter saying he planned to
(14:38):
speak at the Capital Mall. He invoked the specter of
left wing violence against his totally peaceful demonstration, stating, quote,
some citizens have been threatening us with violence and forcible
suppression of our peaceful right to address our fellow Americans
according to the law. Now this was patent bullshit. Rockwell
absolutely had violent intentions. Immediately after that rally, which turned violent,
he sent a letter out to his supporters and regular
(14:59):
don't saying his goal was to quote, provoke and aggravate
the jew traders beyond endurance. We only knew they would attack,
but we sought their attack. Our activity has been successful
beyond our wildest dreams, and all of it has been
aimed not at education or waking people up, but at
gaining power. And then, and only then can we exterminate
the swarms of Jewish traders and our guest chambers. A
(15:20):
little anger you, I wanna talk about a little story
something that happened to me in December when I was
importantly watching a rally. UH called him to rally, which
what was a response to the me to move members
of Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys to great groups. So,
after their rally, which was cordoned off and heavily protected
(15:41):
by police. Uh they took a very long, circuitous route
back to their cars and were surrounded by a group
of anti fascists. Most of those people yelled, but some
of them through things, including bottles, which eventually prompted the
police to use flash band grenades on the crowd to
disperse them. After this altercation, which was heavily videotaped and photographed,
my cameraman was right behind Joey Gibson and one of
(16:01):
his right hand men as they walked away and caught
a snippet of conversation in which the guy looked to
go Joey and said that could not have gone better.
There is there is. I mean, that's what I'm thinking
the whole time you're reading this, and that is what
they want. And when we talk about how do you
deal with the Proud Boys, or deal with any of them,
you have to keep that in mind. That playing into
(16:22):
their hand. And I do want to say there is
something to be said like there. It's also worth noting
um because this is what's happening today is not entirely
the same as what was happening back then, when there
aren't large groups to confront them. We see what happens
in New York City where they start randomly assault, right, Well,
then there's that there there for protection. Yeah exactly. I'm
not saying anti fascists like street activism is useless. I
(16:45):
am saying this is part of a very old strategy, right,
just understanding, like you're playing into their plan and you
might need to. You might need to because they might
try to beat the ship out of something, but you
have to like keep it in check and have that aware.
Please understand, Yeah, that's where they're and always frame it
like that because then it's like that's actually great that
(17:06):
that is on camera. Yeah, but it's not the only
time that we've seen those sorts that that masks sort
of slip off or like even like the Proud Boys
explicitly say like, yeah, go get into fights, go provoke them.
That's how you up right exactly. Um yeah, it's uh.
I mean Patriot Prayer's model is funk around and find
out right, That's like their their goal is that, and
(17:27):
they want to they want to trigger you, they want
to make you mad so you get upset. It's almost like, um,
like fast, do you care about your feelings? What oh yeah,
oh yes, yes, it is like that. It is like
trying to trying something out and try trying to tie
a couple of things together, trying between a couple of
things like that. It took me a second, and I
like that. Now. For the fourth of July nineteen sixty,
(17:51):
Rockwell plander rally in New York City. This provoked outrage,
which of course earned Rockwell publicity and donations. The quarantine
broke down completely when Rockwell was denied a permit to march.
According to the American Fewer Quote, his cause became the
cause of free speech. His name appeared in newspapers almost daily,
and his appeal made its way through the courts. On
June twenty, nineteen sixty, an enraged mob, including many survivors
(18:12):
of Nazi concentration camps, attacked him, but he was saved
from serious injury by the quick action of the police. Now,
this was widely seen as a disaster by members of
the Jewish community. David mc renolds of The Village Voice
wrote that the violence of the crowd did more to
promote anti Semitism than anything Rockwell could himself could have
possibly said. Now, I don't know if I agree with that,
but it shows how political moderates of the nations. As
(18:33):
Rockwell's free speech case made its way through the court,
coverage continued to roll in even as corn even though
quarantine advocates continued to plead for everyone to just stop
writing about George Lincoln Rockwell. And when an appeal overturned
the band and Rockwell was actually issued his permit, he
never even bothered to pick it up. He'd gotten what
he wanted out of the whole mass publicity and a
shipload of donations for being a free speech warrior. Tony
(18:55):
Lassa Wis was a New York City police officer. He
was the guy who protected Rockwell from an attack during
that June nineteen sixty thing uh, and he wound up
regularly spending some time around them as like being part
of their escort and stuff. Uh. He later recalled seeing
quote two big mail sacks full of letters at the
A and P headquarters after that event. He said, quote
Rockwell needed the publicity to get his contributions in to
(19:17):
get around some of his financial difficulties. Rockwell described how
he randomly picked targets for his rallies once he publicly
announced he was coming the public's fur, as he put it,
would stand on end. Local newspapers, radio and television would
give him just enough publicity to guarantee the delivery of
four or five stacks of mail to his doorstep. Rock
Will said he received a lot of Ada Boy George's
letters with dollar bills folded up inside the envelope. He said,
(19:39):
just the threat of his coming was good for a
couple of grand Literally, what Joey Gibson does literally puts
a donation plea into every indo, every every single thing
about a rally. But I won't talk about Portland anymore
until we get a little bit further right, Okay, Uh,
you know what it is speaking of donations, I guess
not not right. One pump one cream is an ad
(20:05):
for nestlely coffee. Mate, the one pump one cream source
of cream pumps that your hazel nut. Uh, sex is funny.
Here's some fads. We're bad, okay, nazis okay. So Rockwell
(20:33):
was very happy with how that whole rigamarole had gone.
In one of his regular comments, he taunted Feinberg and
the a j C, saying they had quote spent millions
of dollars to spread the word among the Jews to
ignore us, but he claimed their anger in need for
revenge had gotten the best of them. The result is
the lifeblood of a political movement, publicity. This is something
Rockwell wrote about quite a lot. In he came to
(20:54):
the conclusion that quote, the problem of building a political
organization in spite of the enemy is utter mastery of
all means of communicating with the masses is first. The
problem is reaching the masses anyway at all. It does
not matter how you reach them at first, so long
as they come to know you, and the fact that
you were at the opposite pole from those in power.
It's just all It's just so familiar because everybody else
(21:19):
is ripping off George. Yep, a bunch of cheap diet
imitations of George fans that Mr pib of racism. Yeah,
but Mr pibs wish Pipper muster PIB is a better beverage. Agree.
I agree. I'm just talking remission. Yeah, I like that.
(21:42):
But I guess the real Dr Pepper would be George's dad.
Sure would be Pepper Pepper, doct Pepper. I mean, Doc
Rock is such a good name. Could that's our musical.
It's like Cop rock but with doctors and a couple
of hops, probably hot cops. Hot cops for sure. So
(22:04):
while George was busy building the playbook that every other
fascist grifter in history, which shamelessly crib from, Fineberg was
not sitting on his ass. He had supporters write articles
endorsing the content the quarantine strategy and pointing out that
publicity just got Rockwell donations. They stated that quote, the
most effective way of combating the Rockwell menaces to literally
starve him out. Quarantine can be made effective if we
deny him publicity, we deny him money. Gradually he convinced
(22:27):
people of the wisdom of his strategy. There were more fights,
largely with the Jewish war veterans, but by nineteen sixty one,
Finberg had succeeded in drastically reducing the amount of press
coverage that Rockwell received. The quarantine was never total, some
stories always came out, but Fineberg considered success to be
a measure of degree, and the summer of nineteen sixty
one saw Rockwell attract way less media attention than he
(22:48):
had gotten back in nineteen sixty. By the end of
nineteen sixty one, the commander had started to get desperate.
When some members of Congress urged a Department of Justice
investigation into the American Nazi Party, Rockwell saw this as
a huge opportunity. He welcomed the investigation because it would
give him a chance to show up in a full
Nazi uniform and spew his conspiracy theories in the halls
(23:09):
of Congress. Feinberg knew this, and he actually begged the U. S.
Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, not to investigate the American Nazi Party,
and he got his wife. In nineteen sixty two, when
Rockwell applied for a permit to march in Philadelphia, the
local Jewish community initially wanted to lobby to have his
permit denied. Finberg wrote them a letter begging them not
to interfere with rockwell speech. Quote, you risk Rockwell. Rockwell's
(23:31):
getting civil Libertarians support all the way to the Supreme
Court and the publicity and attendant thereon. Without quarantine, any
anti Semite could become a national figure in short time.
He need only be dramatic and have plenty of opposition
here too. Finberg succeeded. Rockwell got to give his speech
and no one cared. He did not make the news
from that point on, with some occasional failures and lapses
(23:52):
the quarantine against George Lincoln, Rockwell held. This prompted him
to veer towards the only reliable income stream left him,
the college lectureshires. From nineteen sixty three on, this was
his only consistent source of income. He never failed to
draw a sizeable crowd. Much of the media attention he
received for the rest of his life was for the
protests and fights that occurred outside these events. Now, Feinberg
(24:12):
did not worry as much about Rockwell's campus speeches, mainly
because he just didn't think college kids were dumb enough
to fall for the Nazi stick. This proved to be true.
College lectures were good for money, but Rockwell himself knew
that they would never get him what he wanted. He
wrote quote, you can't convert people's attitudes by lecturing and reasoning.
Attitudes can only be changed through emotional engineering. That is
the key thing. It doesn't matter what the emotion is, love, fear, hatred.
(24:37):
As long as there is an emotion in a person,
I can change him. When I agitate in uniform, I
want people to hate me. I want them emotionally worked up.
Smart man. Yep, smart smart man. Hate him, hate him,
smart guy. I'm not a fan. Smart not a fan.
And so as the nineteen sixties went on, Rockwell attempted
(24:59):
a variety of garish and bizarre stunts. He did a
cross country road trip in a converted Volkswagen he called
the hate Bus, giving speeches and harassing civil rights advocates
like the freedom writers. I gotta want to you describe
this bucket bus. Want you describe this fucking hate bus.
I mean it's it's it's hate bus several several times.
(25:20):
It's your classic VW bus. As stated that you would
associate with a hippie, a free loving protel, a bunch
of surf bums, and and then you you look closer.
I mean it says we hate race mixing. It's right there,
we do hate. What a bad bus? What a bad
what a terrible bust. It's terrible bus. You know. He
(25:42):
also had a racist dog that escaped at one point,
a racist dog. Wells when the dog was when the
dog like escaped, he tried to play it up as like, well,
now some Jewish family like has a dog and they
don't even know it's racist. But it's like dude, that
dog's not racist. Dog just didn't want to live with Nazis.
The dog was like looking for his freedom. Yeah. I
(26:02):
think it's really funny that the dog's name was gas Chamber.
Is that true? Yeah, that's true. No, I mean not
after he found a new family. Your gas Chamber hate
it do not like unsubscribed to everything you've said so far,
we're about to say about that hate bus, Joddy, I
(26:23):
think it's funny, uh that the hate bus well a
hate isn't quotes Yeah, yes, quote hate bus um, but
it says several times Lincoln Rockwell's hate bus. Yeah, he
wanted to make sure that you knew it's his hate bus,
not all the other hate bus. Lincoln Rockwell hate branding.
There's a lot going on in that hate bus. Yeah,
(26:43):
real fun time. Should he use g L R YEA.
In nineteen six, the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party held elections
for three representatives. They attempted to seat the three women
who won during the Roke Hall for that year's opening
session of Congress. It was an act of protest, basically
protesting the fact that like there isn't good Black representation
in Congress. We're gonna elect our own leaders, and we're
going to try to send him in Congress, and you
(27:04):
know they'll get kicked out, but it'll get it was.
It was a smart idea for a protest. It generated
a lot of publicity. Rockwell attempted to suckle some of
that publicity for himself by having two of his men,
including that guy Lloyd with the guerrilla suit, show up
to watch the proceedings. Lloyd managed to find an empty
room and changed into his incredibly racist costume. Yeah, there's
a picture. It's from a cover of Stormtrooper magazine where
(27:27):
this was written about. I gotta give this one to
Cody since I view the bust Katie. It's a smaller image,
but it's ghastly right. That is that is black face? Yeah,
I when I first read it was like, oh my god.
The headline though, oh no, the US Nazi in black face,
(27:49):
ridiculous Mississippi n words in Congress? Is the is the title?
It's it's the title of the article. It's a title
the article in Stormtrooper magazine and Stormtrooper magazine. I know
it's shocking to find racism and Stormtrooper magazine. D Yeah,
that'll be up on the site. Behind the bastards dot
(28:11):
com because the slur is pretty small. It's a small image,
but it's it's there. It's it's there. It's something that happened,
um So, Lloyd sprinted from his changing room directly into
the halls of Congress. I'm gonna read a quote from
four Race and Nation. Lloyd raced out of the room
and down the hall to the exclusive stairway that only
members of Congress use. He bolted up the stairs to
the lobby level, past two slouching policemen. As he knewed
(28:33):
the chamber entrance. A black doorkeeper spott at him and
moved to black his path, but Lloyd, running at top speed,
slammed a shoulder into the man, went through the door
and jumped into the well of the house. Donning his
stovepipe hat, he yelled, I'm not gonna use He yelled
this in like a racist diction, trying to like I'm
the Mississippi delegation. I demand to be seated. Members of
(28:53):
the House were stunned by the intrusions. Total silence filled
the room as Lloyd jumped and danced, making unintelligible monkey
noises sense legitimately crazy sound. I mean he was a
mentally ill man. Lloyd was a mentally ill man that
Rockwell used to do stunts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still yeah,
the thing that happened, that's the thing that happened. I'm
(29:14):
not getting into it in this because there's just so
much to cover. But the book for Racing Nation is
a good job of talking about the kind of people
who became Rockwell Stormtroopers. And they were all pretty broken
into uh not all of whom would stay Nazis their
whole lives. Yeah. Uh. The event was considered such a
propagandicoo that a picture of Lloyd made the next month's
cover of Stormtrooper magazine, which we just looked at it.
(29:34):
Stunts like these succeeded in drawing up some publicity and
some donations, but the American public short attention span ensured
their interest inevitably faded with time. Rockwell continuously searched for
a way to get people emotionally worked up. The next year,
nineteen sixty six, was a time of great unrest in
the United States. There were numerous riots across the East Coast.
Near the end of that year. In Chicago, the Housing
(29:55):
Authority made the decision to try and relieve some of
the overcrowding in their ghetto by expanding public housing to
some of the less populated parts of the city. However,
the less populated parts of the city were white. These
people were infuriated at the idea of maybe living close
to black people. Martin Luther King Jr. Showed up to
try and help the people make the world a better
place to do the things that Martin Luther King Jr. Did,
(30:17):
those classic, classic and okay things, and so Rockwell showed
up as well to try and stoke the fires of
racial resentment for power and profit. He gave a speech
at Marquette Park where he said, quote, you're working every
day to pay taxes to breed little black bastards. You're
subsidizing negro mothers who produced this little black scum for pay,
and then when they don't have any place to live,
(30:37):
they want to come and take your house and neighborhood. Yep.
Notice he did not say the N word there, He
did not use a racial slur there. Hey, this is
good for him and for him, this is part of
a tactic that works incredibly well. Now, this all came
in the middle of the schism within the American Nation
Nazi party. Rockwell had come up with a brilliant slogan,
something he thought would really take off among the American public.
(31:01):
You want, I guess what his two words slogan was
that he invented a best white power what. Yeah, he
invented white power upsetting real innovator. He's done so many,
did so many of these things. He's the guys form.
Oh like, invented neo Nazism, Holocaust denial, trolling colleges for
(31:32):
free speech purposes to raise donations, and white powers and
we're not done such a big legacy. Are you going
to add to the list? Did he start saying like
it's okay to be white and like painting that on
like college campuses too? Not quite? Not quite? This is
the seed? Yeah? Man? Did he sell brain bills? He
(31:57):
would have been selling brainforce if he could. Absolutely was
the capsules lead and lyzi Yeah that soy and oh god,
speaking of brain pills, although that's actually one of my
hardlines for advertising, as I won't sell brain, I'll sell
a lot of other kinds of pills because I love pills,
(32:19):
not brain. To understand, it's adds time products services, one pump.
We are back When we last left off, Rockwell had
(32:40):
invented a slogan called white power and he was flirting
with what with the author of Flaration Nation calls denazification
of the American Nazi Party. Would you say the notification
or demonication down? So there were two. But yeah, Brockwell's
side was basically like, we need to be a little
bit less explicit about the Nazi stuff because that's not
getting votes, and we need to pcus more on white
(33:00):
identity and getting white people behind. There also something we
see today. Yeah yeah, but wait I thought that. But okay,
but according to Jordan's B. Peterson, a doctor, a doctor, uh,
the right didn't start playing identity politics until very recently
in response to the left. Yeah, well, I got my
first question with that is was nineteen sixty six recently?
(33:23):
No really, not according as a while ago. Fascinating. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah,
so that's interesting. I'm confused. And it's possible he's disingenuous
and playing from the same handbook as the fewer of
the American Nazi Party. No, no, not Dr Jordan B. Peterson.
I suppose it's possible, but it's not probable. It's not probable,
(33:46):
not probable. Speaking of not probable George Lincoln Rockwell's incredible
success in Chicago, so he had T shirts and placards
printed up with the phrase white power on them. He
worked the phrase into his speeches in Chicago, marking the
first time the white power slogan was ever used. One
of his stormtroopers, John Padler, also coined the phrase the
(34:08):
color of your skin is your uniform, which, if you
spend a lot of time listening to Nazis talk about
their apocalyptic race war fantasies, that line comes up all
of the goddamn time to O G S. Yeah, goat
the goat. Yeah, he's he is the goat of American racism.
(34:28):
He's definitely earned that. He's earned that. We're not being
the wote WoT the wote we do we could do
go and keep it, but like gross of all time,
grossest of all time, the grossest of all time, There
we go, There we go. I don't know, I could
probably do better, but I'm on the gross old asshole. Yeah, time,
(34:55):
we'll figure it out. We'll figure out. Chicago marked the
first and only time Rockwell and his Nazis saw mainstream
penetration for their rhetoric, stoking the fires of white fear
and resentment of black people worked way better than anti
Semitic conspiracy theories. On August sixth, nineteen sixty six, Martin
Luther King Jr. Led a group of marchers through Gauge Park.
He was met by an enormous crowd of counter protesters,
(35:16):
organized and radicalized by George Lincoln Rockwell. They numbered more
than twenty five hundred. The crowd carried placards and banners
and blasted with Rockwell quotes like joined the white rebellion,
and we worked hard for what we got. Thousands of
furious voices shouted white power at King and his comrades.
They threw things, they assaulted them. It was a violent
(35:37):
attack on doctor Martin Luther King and his marchers. One
of King's comrades at the time, a guy named Andrew Young,
later recalled quote, the violence in the South always came
from a rabbel element. But these were women and children
and husbands and wives coming out of their homes and
becoming a mob, and in some ways it was far
more frightening. Doctor King himself was shocked at the ferocity
(35:57):
of the violence he and his marchers faced in Chicago,
saying quote, I've never seen anything like it. I've been
in many demonstrations all across the South, and I have
never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama mobs as hostile
in hate field. It was a huge victory for Rockwell.
White power took up as a concept and as a slogan,
and still remains popular among shitty races today. Rockwell did
(36:19):
not succeed in converting the whites of chicagoan to Nazis,
but he made powerful inroads into radicalizing them. The Chicago
open housing protests would prove to be the high water
mark of George Lincoln Rockwell's career. Almost exactly one year later,
on August nineteen sixty seven, George Lincoln Rockwell rolled down
to a laundromat in Arlington, Virginia to do a load
of laundry. He forgot his bleach, and as he headed
(36:41):
out to his car to go get it, two shots
were fired into the window of his nineteen sixty eight Chevy.
He fell out and landed face up in the parking lot,
dead from a gunshot wound to the heart at age
forty nine. The killer was not an anti Nazi activist
or an aggrieved Jewish veteran or anyone like that. It
was John Padler, former US Marie and one of Rockwell's
longest serving stormtroopers. The gun used, appropriately enough, was a
(37:05):
German Mauser piston knats again to kill the Nazi Wow.
Then Peddler and Rockwell had a somewhat contentious history. Padler
quit and rejoined the party a few times and was
distrusted by many of the movement because he was a
Greek and thus not white enough, including to some of
the Nazis. The scentages off bro Sorry. He was also
(37:27):
considered a suspected Marxist for reasons that are unclear to me.
They're always suspected Marxists. That was the best they got.
Rockwell had also recently pushed him out of the A
and p uh and so it was yeah. Padler was
convicted of murder in the first degree. Rockwell's funeral was
as controversial as his life had been. As a veteran,
he was entitled to a military funeral at a state cemetery,
(37:48):
but the military would not allow his followers to wear
Nazi uniforms or fly Nazi flags at a cemetery filled
with American war dead, many of whom had died fighting
the Nazis. Smart move smart moves. I feel like, once
you become a Nazi, you've just invalidated your time fighting Nazis.
So could not I could have done without it. But
(38:14):
at least there are no Nazi flags. Well the Nazis.
The Nazis tried, they they the Nazis with Rockwell's body
tried to show up and force their way in Regalia,
which led to a six hour standoffs of Rockwell's hearse
and military police. Eventually, the Nazis backed down and cremated
Rockwell instead. Okay, there's a not entirely heartbreaking coda to this,
(38:40):
although I guess Nazi getting shots not that bad either.
Petler got out of prison. He was only in there
for twenty some odd years, like twenty two years, and
his story is the closest thing to uplifting. You're going
to get out of this whole mess. His son actually
wrote the afterword for the book for Race and Nation.
It is a heartbreaking and compassionate essay well worth reading,
and it he talks about his father's like abusive childhood,
(39:01):
the things that a lot of the kids who became
Nazis endured, the things Rockwell had endured as a child,
and like, how these broken people came to such a
hateful It's a very insightful and compassionate look by someone
who you know, grew up with a dad who had
done all this stuff. Um. And In the essay, Patler's
son relates this story about his father from after he
(39:23):
got out of prison. Quote, one night in Richmond, Virginia,
after leaving a restaurant, my father stood silently by my car,
with his eyes frozen on the ground. In a somber tone,
he said, I should have been with them with who
I asked, I should have been with Dr King and
the civil rights people back then. He answered, they were
truly my people, not those Nazis. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking. Yeah,
(39:44):
that gave me. Yeah. For his part, George Lincoln Rockwell
did not leave much behind. His estate was just two
d and fifty seven dollars in cash, a corn cob pipe,
and a bunch of racist pamphlets. But Rockwell's real legacy
would prove to be much more extensive and much deadlier
than any fortune could ever have been. And that's what
we will be talking about in Part three of this podcast.
The sixty year long spree of murders, bombings, and hatred
(40:06):
that all sprawn sprung spawned from the mental loins of
George Lincoln Rockwell. You could say for him it was
one pump a whole lot of cream. Does not stop
from that mainstream penetration. Penetration. Yea, God, that word just
(40:28):
makes me so happy. Uh So, I mean, what do
you guys think about George Lincoln Rockwell? Not a fan,
not a fan. It is astounding to hear all laid
out like this and see how directly he is responsible. Yeah,
every every single time I come on this show, he's like,
by the way, here's history, but now his ghost is thrilled. Yea,
(40:51):
and so many things, many of them. Yeah. What do
you think he would be? He wouldn't be. Would he
be a Republican? Would he be a liberal because liberals
are the party of anti He would not be for
pro Israel? I think he Yeah, I really have trouble
telling with rock Wall. He'd be an intellectual dark webber.
(41:14):
I think that I think he would not be. I
think he would be kind of like Peterson, not explicitly political,
and that he wouldn't advocate for a party directly. I
think he would be more about trying to get an
ideology across that there were that works better now. Um, yeah,
he'd be he did, playing to the resentments and grievances
and stuff and sort of lifting up all the like
like the logical next step of like the white power stuff.
(41:38):
He'd be talking about, like white identity. He'd be a
white identity person like like a moll in you, but
more explicit Nazi stuff. Maybe. I don't know, because I
think he he really wanted he really wanted mainstream appeal,
and his his goal from the beginning, if you remember
from the episode one, was to unite conservatives. So I
think he would be explicitly political. I think he would
(41:58):
be less explicitly racist. I don't even know if he
came out around today, if he would be explicitly anti Semitic, right,
he plays that doesn't play like you have some tea
party faction within the party. He'd maybe go into politics
and think there's a good chance he'd have been elected.
Yeah I did, right, I mean, look, we've got King,
we got good speaker. He was Karissman speaker, handsome guy, guy, smart,
(42:19):
very smart, good at branding. Yeah. Um, and yeah, he'd
played he'd played it that and he wouldn't be yeah
as explicitly like, Yeah, I have a lot of questions
about what rock Wall would be if he were alive today,
But one thing I know for sure is that he
would have worked with Roger Stone. Yeah, they would. They
(42:40):
would have plans, They would have so many plans. What
you did he die again? I think it was sixty seven, right, yeah? Seven.
I think he would have um uh played up stuff
with like Milo or because Milo is technically he's technically
he's Jewish, right, Yeah, I think so like like despot
him probably. I think he probably think the thing that
(43:02):
amazed him that would have made him despise Milo was
Milo's Milo's attitude never had a chance of getting mainstream
acceptance because he's just too off putting and he doesn't care.
He like, he's very noncommittal to everything and yeah, like
kind of he's a chaos agent or whatever. Milo doesn't
believe in ship exactly. Rockwell believed he wouldn't have gone
through the ship that he did because he suffered for right, right,
(43:23):
he figured out that his pain, Yeah, his pain drove
him to Yeah, so I think he's uh, and I
don't think I think he would have been smarter than
a guy like Richard Spencer, because I don't think Richard
Spencer was very cunning. No, he didn't play it well.
He I mean, he got the platform, he got that
article about him. He was dapper, but he didn't he
didn't play it well after that, didn't play it well after.
(43:44):
Milo doesn't believe in anything. Milo does not believe in
anything except for having money. Um. And I don't think
Rockwell would have been I think he might have used
him at something, not like aligned with him, but just
sort of like using the movement and the drive. I
think Rockwell would have really gotten along with a guy
like Steve Bannon, was a clever political operator who believes
the ship out of things y um. And to be honest,
(44:04):
that's a more likely pairing than him and Roger Stone
because Roger isn't leaving ship either. I would have like
Donald Trump, Yeah, he probably would have. He probably would
have or he'd be president. He just he just would
have been the president now because they're playing, they're playing.
(44:25):
He didn't know. He didn't dodge two of them because
he got shot to death. It's all that white, the resentment,
grieving stuff and rock Will seems seems to know how
to do it and to do it on purpose, whereas
like Trump sort of like fell into it because he
just happens to be like a in the last year
of his life is when he really figured Outland And
I'm like, oh, yeah, exactly, that's that's my through line.
(44:47):
That's the thing that everybody yeah that he can get.
Steve Sailor, he's a he's like a kind of like
white nationalists kind of figure. He writes on v dare
a lot and stuff. Um. The referred to as this
Sailor strategy is an article he came out with like
two thousand five or something like that, and it literally
lays out like, here's what Republicans need to do. They
need to play to white entity politics, need to get
(45:08):
these votes. He basically lays out like and the anti immigration,
He blays out everything in Donald Trump's platform basically and
his whole ideology. Um, and it's just like, yeah, here's
what you gotta do, um uh, just to bring back
real quick. Uh. At one point, h Jordan P. Peterson,
who hates identity politics, shared an article by Steve Saylor,
who analyzed a study about diversity that cut out half
(45:31):
of the article, uh, and study that actually said diversity
is good in the long run. Well, but that sounds
like Jordan Peterson's uh, intellectually dishonest, and that can't be
the case. It can't be the case. There's there's another,
but it's not probable. If it's not probable, no, no
(45:54):
more cum jokes. It's time for plugs of the plug bowls.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna plug now. As as I
mentioned in part one, this was originally supposed to be
part of a five part audio book about where all
this fucking right wing terrorism comes from, because it's a
weird history, and like we didn't even get into Christian identity,
which rock Wall ties into, which is also tied into
(46:16):
Robert Bowers, the Trio Left synagogue shooting, a bunch of others.
All of this stuff you want it all laid out
is going to be on my audio book, The War
on Everyone, which I am backing right now on go
fund me. So go to go fund me search for
The War on Everyone. Drop a couple of bucks if
you've got them. I will put out the audio book
and I will use the money to report on fascism
and and possibly conflict abroad depending on how much we
(46:40):
get it. It's doing great so far. Also want to
thank everyone who's donated so far prior to this episode landing.
Uh it's it's been way better than I expected. And
I'm blown away and and and driven to tears by
the the generosity of my fans. So thank you all
so much. I promised to never sell brain pills. Um,
it's good promise to make. I will sell other pills
(47:02):
because I love pills love, just not some great pills.
Just not Brainforest plus. Yeah yeah, not even Brainforest like
like I don't know, maybe maybe maybe. Um. You can
check us out on online as well at our Patreon,
Patreon dot com, slash Somewhere News that's YouTube show that
(47:23):
we do, and then we also have UM a weekly
podcast where we talk about a lot of bad guys,
a lot of current and news. You know, yeah, the
news of the day, the news of the week, uh,
the news of the year, um, the news of our
flaying nightmare world. UM. So yeah, Google Google some more
news and even more news. It's all around the place.
On Twitter. Um, I'm Dr Mr Cody on Twitter dot
(47:45):
com as well. Katie Katie Stole donate to some more
news Patreon one. We're on the edge of something great
here where we're almost through the looking glass. We're straddling
the looking glass. I'm I right okay on Twitter and again.
(48:05):
My my go fund me is uh the War on Everyone,
So check that out. Check out some more news Patreon. Uh.
Go to the fucking T shirts public, God, so many plugs.
I'm so exhausted. Behind the Bastards see public. We have
a website, Behind the Bastards dot com. You can find
us on at bastards pod U, Instagram, and Twitter. I
(48:27):
love about you. D
Behind the Bastards News
Host
Robert Evans
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