The People Who Turned Burning Your Face Off Into A Healthcare Fad

Robert is joined by Billy Wayne Davis to discuss Black Salve.

FOOTNOTES:

1. Science or Snake Oil: what is black salve?
2. Black salve in a nutshell
3. Victorian Pharmacology V: Jesse Weldon Fell, M.D., Zinc Chloride & Furtive Medicine
4. Warning Letter to Two Feathers
5. Using Two Feathers Healing Formula
6. Black Salve Is A Dangerous Fake Cancer Cure, But It Continues To Flourish In Facebook Groups
7. Cancer 'healer' turned fake lawyer banned from Victorian courts
8. She was a nurse. So why did Helen shun conventional cancer treatment?
9. 'Spiritual healer' told dying cancer patient to stop medical treatment, authorities say
10. 'Black salve' cancer conman banned from treating patients

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmm, what's edging, my Roberts. I am on the uh.
I am on the edge of life and death right
now recording my podcast with just one pip left on
the power level of my zoom. So this is going
to be an exciting day for everyone. Robert Evans here
hosted Behind the Bastards, really frustrating my my producer Sophie

(00:24):
with my Devil may Care recklessness and here to ride
on the edge of hell and life itself with me
my motor cycle co pilot Billy Wayne Davis. Hey, guys,
come from the side car right here. Billy, I got
the goggles on you should do. How are you feeling

(00:47):
as we as we recklessly ride, ride the line and
and gamble with everything and nothing at all? These frozen
you looks angry in his frozeneness. Oh there you are.
It froze right. When Robert asked you a question and
you were like in your face was like this, you
were like this mm hmm. I had a good answer,

(01:10):
I said. I was like you said edging, my Roberts.
I was like, you don't understand what edging is in pornography? Right?
I I do? It was it was a double entendre
because that's no, because you know how everybody's like, you know,
trapped inside and being ludicrously horny on the internet. Uh yeah,

(01:30):
I figured I might as well play into that. But
you know what's not ludicrously horny for the internet, Billy,
I don't when people burn off huge chunks of their
face and other body parts with nonsense medicine from the internet.
I'm sorry, What the funk are we talking about today?
Oh yeah, it's this is not good. It's a little

(01:55):
bit of a continuation of the episode you and I did.
The two part are on Harry Haxey, the father of
the fake cancer industry. Um so we had a good
time on that one, right, Billy. You enjoyed yourself. I
do oddly enjoy ourselves on these things. Yeah. Well, that
episode was actually a little bit of an accident. See.

(02:16):
I found out about Harry in the first place because
I was doing research for an episode on this. Really,
you know how I love these little online communities that
like start as Facebook groups and wind up killing a
bunch of people, Like that's one of my favorite things
in the world. Um So, I was looking into one
of those little groups Black sav enthusiasts and like s
a l V, which is like a medicated ointment basically, Um, yeah,

(02:40):
have you heard of Black Save Billy? I've seen it, like,
you know, like on you know, just on the Yeah, yeah,
it's obvious this is bullshit that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah,
it hops around like that. So I started looking into
that and I found out about Harry Haxy and I
just wound up writing ten thousand words it's about Harry Haxey. Um,

(03:02):
when I was a little bit drunk, and uh, then
we did that episode. But now we're gonna do the
episode I originally intended, Billy, and we're going to talk
about the Black sav community. So there's a community. Yeah,
there's a whole community about burning off large chunks of
your skin with with bullshit poison. It's pretty cool, Billy.

(03:26):
It would be neat if I could, If I could go,
But people talk about like if they could go back
in time to the start of the Internet and warn people,
and they usually focus on warning them about Trump. It
would be fun to go back and be like, thousands
of people are going to convince themselves spontaneously that it's
a great idea to kill themselves with acid. Uh, and

(03:47):
they will think everyone else is dumb for not doing it.
And that is what the Internet will will create more
than anything else, and people will be like, yeah, like
tell that to you know, one of some of somebody
in like nine nine three on usenet, who's who's posting
about star Trek and really optimistic about the future of
networked information. Yeah. I always think of my seventh grade teacher, Mr. Lynn,

(04:12):
who taught us about the Internet and did the you know,
it was like I think about him like probably once
a month when I see something on the Internet, where
I just think of him being like, you guys, this
is going to change the way we share information. It's
gonna make the world. I remember so specifically how excited
he was and then it took him forty five minutes

(04:34):
to get online, and then my friend David pushed one
button and he was off in a second. And I
remember how mad our teacher got in change communication. So Billy,
now that we've now that we've talked about the Internet
in the past, let's let's talk about black Save the

(04:57):
Black sav so. To describe it in brief, black s
as an alternative topical therapy that was initially used back
in the day to treat skin cancer, and most formulations
contain two main ingredients. One of them is blood root
Sanguinaria canadensis like Canada, and the other is zinc chloride.
And it all basically works by just burning layers of

(05:18):
your skin to death at a time. Then this dead
layer of skin falls off, leaving a horrific open wound
kind of like a diabetic ulcer in terms of like
the way it looks um And yeah, that's that's what
this community is based around, is doing that to like
your face and stuff to cure cancer. That's I mean,
they've taken a step up from like, hey you can

(05:39):
burn a ward off, Yes, just just burn your face off. Yeah,
and it it is based on that logic of like,
oh this there are these chemicals that burn off layers
of your skin, and if you have a wart that's
just in a couple of layers of skin, they can
get rid of that wart. And they've taken that to like,
if you have cancer on the outside of your body,

(05:59):
you can burn it off with this stuff. But then,
because the Internet does what it does and inherently groups
online radicalize each other, everyone went from like I'm it's like, yeah,
you can burn this skin cancer off to like, if
you take these pills up your ass, it will cure
your your internal cancers and stuff. So we all made
that beautiful jump. It's great, it's really good. It's a

(06:23):
young drinker who was like, if one beer makes me
feel this good, two beers will make me feel black. Yeah,
it's exactly. Yeah, that's the alternative medicine ecosystem in a nutshell.
It's it's the logic of seventeen year old drinkers, but

(06:45):
but written by adults who are worried that they're going
to die of cancer. So I did a site colon
Facebook dot com search for black Save just to see
like what kind of groups were out there, and one
of the first pages I brought up was Naturally Healthy
Black Salve, which is a Queensland, Australia based group with

(07:07):
three thirty four followers. Now. Their explanation of black Save notes,
the reason we call a black save is because the
blood root herb used is red in color to begin with,
but in a short time after the save has made
it turns black. The reason it is also called black
drawing paste is that the blood root draws out toxins. Now,
the reality of the situation as I'm sure you're guessing, Billy,

(07:28):
is that blood root does not draw out toxics. It
just rips off layers of your skin. Um, yeah, it's
it's a little bit. You remember that bleach drinking colt,
how like kids would start pooping out their intestinal ligning
and they'd convinced themselves it was uh worms. It's kind
of like that, but with like rotting layers of your
dead skin. That's kind of the lodge. Yeah. Anything I've

(07:56):
been around, like burning hair or skin, it's just like
that aroma. That's good. Yeah, yeah, I don't know because
it's like burning. It's an acid burning. So I haven't
stuck my nose in somebody's armhole due to black salv
But yeah, I'm gonna get bet not bet not great.
I'm gonna bet none of it's very pleasant. Uh and
it certainly doesn't look pleasant as people post pictures of it. Now. Yeah,

(08:19):
the reality of the situation because like most of these
will be claimed. If you like look on these things,
they're always claimed. It's like a Native American remedy from
this tribe or that tribe, and they'll they'll include they'll
they'll really list the blood root out top because blood
root sounds like something that ought to be a medicine. Um.
The reality is that the vast majority of these salves
when they're analyzed, turn out to be majority zinc chloride,

(08:40):
which is a synthetic corrosive chemical. In an emphasis on
the word synthetic, Native American tribes were not synthesizing a
lot of zinc chloride a thousand years ago. Um yeah,
I'm reasonably, I mean, you know, not to say they
didn't have like pretty complicated understanding of chemistry, because they
were able to make d M t um Yeah. Yeah,

(09:07):
and it it's the synthetic part. The fact that they're
using synthetics inc chloride is interesting to me because every
site you'll find selling the stuff inevitably emphasizes how natural
it is. That first Facebook page from Queensland I found
notes it is important to dispel a myth about black save.
There is some opposing literature around suggesting that some black
salves are corrosive, that is, they work by corrosion, like

(09:30):
burning into the skin to burn the cancer out. Maybe
some black salves in the past were corrosive, but the
more recent black saves used, including cancima, which is the
product that is being sold here are definitely not corrosives.
The black saves we have seen used, which we now use,
do not repeat, not ever act by causing corrosion of
the tissue. So it's it's not burning you, it's just

(09:53):
pulling out toxic So they're they're just that's not fire.
They've yeah, those are those are free. That's freedom heat.
It's freedom heat, Jesus Christ, freedom heat. Yeah. And it's
like this, this community of sellers has been urging this

(10:13):
group of people who are largely self radicalizing and gradually
convinced them that, like burning off your skin is just
drawing out the toxins, and anyone who says you're not
drawing out the toxins is a liar on the other
side of the medical industrial complex. It's pretty cool. So
I think that's kind of amazing that um, because of

(10:38):
the way online communities work and with a little bit
of pushing from the company selling this stuff, hundreds and
hundreds thousands really of people around the world have convinced
themselves that a product that's literally just a type of
acid that eats away at their skin and like burns
layers of it to death is is not corrosive that
it's uh drawing out toxics. It's it's kind of it's

(11:01):
one thing to convince somebody like you, you know, those
old products were like you would you would rub this
thing on your foot that they said was like pulling
out toxins, and it was really just like scrubbing the
bottom of your foot. But then all this black stuff
gets in the water and it looks like you, well,
like the acid part like you're talking about, Like, I
get this this, I get this very painful act mee
sometimes from stress on the back of my head, and

(11:24):
it's very painful, and they don't really know how to
get rid of it. It's just like when I get
stressed out. But they put these they give me shots
to make it less painful and clear it up. And
it's I asked, I was like, why does that hurt?
Why so bad? She's like, Oh, it's just like acid
we're putting in there that kills everything. So I can
see these people being like, well, this is something they use.

(11:46):
Dermatologists used to help these cysts and things like that,
but they're still not going to the fucking doctor. No.
And it's a different, fundamentally different type of chemical and stuff,
even if like they both maybe corrosive, Like I don't know,
it's fundamentally a different thing. But it's it's amazing to
me that like these communities, with the help of some

(12:08):
of the companies selling these products, have convinced themselves that
a product that's visibly burning their skin off, um, isn't
doing that. That it that it's pulling out toxins. Like
it's one thing. You remember that they have those products
where toll it's supposed like pull the toxins out of
your feet or whatever, and it's really just like cleaning
the bottom of your feet, but it looks like you've
got a bunch of toxins coming out of you, Like

(12:29):
that's one thing and it's not. It's like, I get
why people fall for that. It's amazing that you can
have them burning holes in their body and not think
that they're doing that. Like that's that's incredible. It is incredible.
And I've followed for the feet that oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
we all fell for something. Um yeah. Now, So in

(12:53):
the interest of like dispelling all the myths about this stuff,
I decided to dig into the whole history of black
save and how are good friends at Facebook up to
spread it over the land in a manner that kind
of like resembles a cancer. Uh. Now, the use of
this stuff in kind of Western culture starts in about
eighteen forty two, when an American physician moved to New
York City and enrolled in the University Medical College. He

(13:15):
graduated with an m d In eighteen forty four, which
is a two year period of time. Because back in
those days, anyone's capable of staying conscious for forty eight
hours at a stretch could become a doctor. He began
practicing in New York City and went on to become
one of the founders of the New York Academy of
Medicine in eighteen forty seven, which is again five years
after he decided to become a doctor. So things were

(13:39):
easier back then for doctors, is the point I'm making.
They haven't changed that much. Yeah, I think you can
go from five years in five years from I think
doctor sounds like a good job to founding the New
York Academy of Medicine. Yeah. Yeah. Nowadays, Yeah, a lot
of expectancy was different. Yeah. Yeah. So he was appointed

(14:02):
temporary librarian, a position he held until his resignation for
reasons not immediately clear. The next year now his resignation
was not accepted it instantly. Instead, it was forwarded to
the Academy's Committee of Medical Ethics, and their investigation showed
that in eighteen forty seven Dr Fell had started practicing
with what the historical literature generally refers to as an

(14:23):
unregulated cancer remedy UH, and his membership in the organization
was finally terminated in eighteen fifty six when doctor Fell
fled to England to open a new clinic. So he
he joins this group, or he helps to found this group,
and then starts kind of using his position there to
stry to start selling an unregulated cancer here, and he

(14:43):
winds up getting kicked out for it, and he flees
to England, which in those days, I'm guessing was more
more like what Tijuana is today for fake doctors like
this UM. So he winds up in England and he
decides to apply for a patent for a new promising
cancer treatment he developed. The governors of Middlesex Hospital in

(15:03):
London wisely decided to conduct a scientific trial to see
if Dr Fell's cancer treatment actually did anything. And it
was at this point that Fell began claiming his treatment
was based in a Native American remedy that he discovered
in use by tribes around Lake Superior, So Minnesotan natives. Uh.
He starts like, he moves to London, starts doing this.

(15:27):
His college is like, we should see if this works,
And in order to kind of dephray suspicion, he tells
them that it's Native American magic. Basically, he was like, hey,
you guys, you know about like the shoes de moccasins.
He's like saying, people, yes, so uh yeah, he he

(15:48):
does this uh and yeah. And his his new ointment,
this cancer treatment that he had been trying to sell
sometince the start of his career was essentially just a
root astract of blood root, which the natives called pecoon uh.
And he mixed this traditional remedy with huge amounts of
zinc chloride, which is what is used in it today,
which was a well known and frequently used escaratic agent,

(16:08):
which means it it burns things off. So back before
you know, surgery was very good. Doctors would use escaratic
agents to burn off tumors um and that's all doctor
Fells using. He's taking a medicine people have used for years,
and he's sprinkling in a little bit of something he
can claim is Native American medicine and basically selling the

(16:29):
same product people have always used, but with a fun, uh,
a fun twist that makes it seem like magic to
wealthy white people at the day. He's he's very ahead
of his time. Yeah. I was going to say, it
sounds like he knew his demographic before most people did. Yeah.

(16:51):
It almost sounds like he helped bring the demographic into
being just by like boldly lying, Um, he's a cool dude. Yeah,
well he I think it sounds like he understands that
humans just want to be told what they want to hear. Yeah.
I think they all, all these fake medical grifters understand that.

(17:13):
And what people who are sick want to hear is
you're gonna be better. And if you can make them
believe that, it doesn't really matter what the treatment is,
what you all you're ever convincing them is that I
can make you better. And then, you know, whatever way
you do that as an individual grifter doesn't really matter
very much, no, because it's all placebo. Yeah, yeah, and

(17:37):
it's all based around you know, just the charisma of
of whatever dude is um is making the nonsense that
is your particular species of nonsense. And I want to
go ahead on a limb and say nine and a
half times out of ten, it's always a dude. It
almost Oh. Nowadays that's changed, um because of of Instagram. Um.

(18:02):
I don't know if it's the only reason, but it
has definitely changed because there's a lot of lady grifters.
So we've we have we have officially defeated the patriarchy
and the realm of fake medical cures. So that's good,
billy baby steps, baby steps. So uh yeah, So Dr
Fell wraps up his very old burn off cancer treatment

(18:26):
in blood root because it sounds mystical, um. And you know,
initial studies did suggest that blood root might be useful
for certain things like removing warts, but Dr Fell insisted
that it was a cancer treatment, and he decided to
go beyond just insisting that it could treat cancer, and
like really made a point of trying to inform everybody
that this was an external and internal treatment for cancer.

(18:47):
So doctors like, oh, yeah, I mean this can burn off,
this might burn off certain cancers, and he's like, yeah,
but if you take it, it'll cure your gut cancer too.
You gotta put it as much of it inside of
your body as possible. What could what could go wrong?
What could go wrong? Yeah? So doctor Fell insisted that
his brown paste was an ideal treatment for large tumors

(19:08):
uh and that it resulted in comparatively little and in
many cases no pain. He claimed that only thirty percent
of his patients suffered a recurrence of their cancer, as
opposed to eighty to nine of patients treated with a
knife alone. All of these claims were lies. Clinical trial
showed that many of doctor Fell's patients suffered a rapid
acceleration in tumor growth. The trials also showed that, contrary

(19:29):
to his claims, Fell's paste caused nightmarish, unendurable pain in
his patients. And I'm gonna quote from a write up
I found on Victorian web quote. Fell's regiment had drawn
criticism for its purported inability to control discomfort. The Middle
Sex physicians observed that the worst pain was experienced during
the treatment of epithelial cancers, especially on the face, where
the pace came into contact with ulcerated services. Some patients

(19:51):
simply could not bear it, so for them the treatment ceased.
The chloride was no doubt acutely painful, but its severity
less only minutes and could be reduced with cold. Comp
us is where large lesions had to be destroyed, Chloroform
was used and the pre operative surface was first frozen
by the application of mixed ice and salt. So these
are pretty horrific surgery. They're doing two people like they're

(20:12):
burning holes in their faces, and then when they have
to apply more burning stuff to the holes in their faces,
they're knocking them out with chloroform and freezing like the
dead skin that they have to base like knock off
so that they can knock it off when the person
is like not screaming and awake. So it's it's bad.
Do you think like the guy the first guy to

(20:32):
treating is watching it and in his roommates like, Hey,
when when it's my turn, let's do the chlorophyl first
on me? Let's first? Yeah, I definitely, I see why
the chloroform came into it. I can I can support that. Uh,
it's yeah. So years of testing eventually came to a

(20:55):
profoundly mixed conclusion about Fell's paste. There was some ths
that it might have been a little bit better than
certain older pastes had been at burning away cancers, but
even this was unclear, and Fell wasn't willing to just
be like, hey, I made a slightly better burning paste.
He insisted for years that it would treat internal cancers
and there was just no evidence of this, And Dr

(21:17):
Fell went on to make a lot of money failing
to treat people in London with his paste. But the
mainstream medical community did eventually declared humbug after extensive clinical trials,
so you know it it It picked up in popularity um,
primarily among the alternative medical set after that. And Harry Haxy,
our old friend, is the guy who first picked up

(21:37):
the torch of burning off cancer with zinc laurette and
blood root in the twenties and thirties. He was joined
by a doctor named Frederick Mose in the nineteen thirties
who formulated his own version of Fell's pace that showed
remarkable success in treating basil cell carcinoma, or at least
it looked like it might have remarkable success at that
Other researchers who looked into the matter were able to
immediately show that his paste actually had no credit on

(22:00):
the treatment, and the real credit went to the fact
that he was using a new surgical technique alongside his paste.
Despite it being proven that his paste had no curative effect,
most patented it as a standalone topical therapy that required
no cutting in order to make a bunch of money.
So these are all good people, really good people, the

(22:21):
good people that understand that by the time you figure
out them full of shit, I'll be gone, yeah, or
you'll be dead. Which is the real benefit of medical grifting,
is just the fact that people tend to die from
what you do to them. Yeah, but you know who
never dies, Billy. No, the products and services that support

(22:43):
this podcast all are eternal, written into the firmament of
the stars. Billy. You cannot kill these products and services,
and maybe, just maybe, if you buy them, you too
will become immortal. That's the f d A backed guarantee
we make on behind the bastards. Where do I sign it?

(23:06):
Right here? Billy? Perfect and we're back, so uh yeah.
In nineteen a Portuguese doctor named al Meda Guncalvez visited
Frederick Moe's clinic and observed his technique. He was able
to find it and show that when the paste was

(23:28):
used alongside a skilled surgeon with a scalpel, there might
be some minor benefit to it. However, his research showed
that when people applied the sav on their own, they
basically always fucked it up, failing to put it on
properly and leading to residual metastasized cancer in most cases.
Now blacks have languished as a treatment for years after this,
primarily because repeated research has shown that it was actually

(23:50):
a really bad way to treat cancer and at the
very most modestly useful when a skilled surgeon like used
it in combination with advanced surgical techniques. But then Billy.
Then along came the man who would save Black Save
from the dustbin of history, a myth, a legend named
greg Caton. He took one look at Black Save and

(24:13):
he saw an opportunity. Oh good, and I like this guy.
You're gonna really like meeting this guy. So Gregory James
Caton had founded a company called Consumer Express back in
nineteen eighty four. It was a garden variety MLM, manufacturing
low quality nutritional supplements and then selling them at an
outrageous markup to customers who would then sell them to

(24:34):
friends and family. After a couple of years, he changed
the name of his company to Nutrition Express, and shortly
thereafter his business was bought by a fellow you might
have heard of named Kevin Trudeau. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so uh.
In nineteen ninety three, Greg Canton was angry over the
buy out. Apparently he felt that Trudeau, and notorious fraudster

(24:56):
and scammer, had scammed him in buying his company, and
he wrote a book called mL M Fraud, which alleged
that he had been tricked by Trudeau um while tricking
customers with his shitty m l M, which is very
funny and good. That is, that's the story you want
to hear right there. Yeah, yeah, There's nothing I love
more than a scammer getting scammed by a scammer in

(25:17):
the process of committing a scam, trying to get better. Yeah,
it's great. So in the Midnight nineties, Greg had to
find a new grift and he found that grift in
black salve, and particularly a formulation of black salve known
as canciema. And the Cancima folks were the ones who
were insisting up at the top of the episode that
they're burning paste. Did not burn anything, Um, which is cool.

(25:42):
So uh yeah so canciema. Um absolutely so is okay.
My whole thing Usually in these things, like I'm trying
to get behind, like their mental motivation. Like when they
say are they just rebutting? People will be like that
ship burns people right now, they're not this one. It

(26:03):
doesn't burn because that because it's gonna burn. Yeah. Why
they say that, is it just like a rebuttal or
they just decided like I'm just not gonna say just
don't say it. Yeah. I think it's like, you know,
I don't think most of these companies have very sophisticated
pr operations, right, Like it's it's a couple of people
shipping out the poison and they also take shots at

(26:25):
it on the internet. And I think it's just one
of those things where it's like, Okay, everybody is saying
that our our death paste burns their skin off. Let's
but it's not burning their skin off. We'll tell them it's, uh,
it's sucking out the toxins. And like, I don't know,
I think they just they've kind of realized that's the
one thing they have to convince people. Um, if you
convince the people taking it, that it's gonna if they

(26:48):
if they're the people taking it, are terrified that their
body is filled with toxins and think that this will
pull the toxins out. Um, that's all you really need
to sell them on, because they already don't believe doctors,
you know. Yeah, well it sounds like a lot of
these people are just improvisers with an actual product. Yeah. Yeah,
I think a lot of these people, if they had
gotten into U C. B Um might have might have

(27:10):
scratched that which in their heads. God, but it sure is,
it sure is. But it's a scam that doesn't make
people burn their faces off. So that's that I know of.
I mean, we'll see now that the internet age has
taken over improv um in the wake of the quarantine.

(27:33):
I don't know, maybe we'll see some faces burned off.
I think, as a general rule, the community of people
who are comfortable getting up to people and saying nonsense
to them, which includes both like scam artists and stand
up comedians and improvisers and actors, they're all kind of
the same pool of people, and that the best of

(27:54):
them get careers entertaining people, and the worst of them
sell poison your exact the rat and then yeah, in
the middle they go to Washington, and in the middle
they go Yeah. When they're not good enough to do either,
they get into politics. Uh So, in the midnineteen nineties, Yeah,
Greg starts selling Cancima and he basically takes in making

(28:17):
this formulation. He takes this traditional blood root and zinc
chloride extract that Dr Fells had initially created, and he
just throws in a bunch of random herbs so he
can really lay in on the whole. This is native
American medicine aspect of it um and Cancima sells really
well and Greg makes like a million dollars in the
space of a couple of years. But the FDA grows
wise to his operation, particularly the part of it where

(28:39):
Greg starts claiming can siema has a success rate in
dealing with skin cancers regardless of the type or size
of cancer. Um. He also claims that his wonder pace
could intelligently discriminate between cancerous tissues and healthy ones, so
it only Greg is like, this only burns away cancerous tissue.
So if you put it on your skin and your

(29:01):
skin burns, that's cancer. God Jesus that terrible. He fucking
rules he does kind of. He just kept saying stuff
like you would say stuff and then read and you go, okay,
you're with me on that. It's a great solution, because, like,

(29:22):
what's the problem. This thing burns off your skin anywhere
it touches. You just make people believe that it only
burns cancer. It's like the it's like a variant of
the Emperor is wearing no clothing of that story, but
with face burning paste. I was, oh, man, you're lucky.
You're lucky that whole nose was cancer. There's a lot

(29:44):
of pictures of people who lose their entire noses to
this stuff. So that's why I said that, oh man,
horrible pictures. Be glad that this is an audio medium,
because the pictures are fucking awful. You take noses are
read to, you see somebody without one, you know what
it's you know, oddly enough, a lot of these pictures.

(30:05):
You know, you spend a lot of time in very
poor parts of the globe and refugee camps, and you
see people with like horrible ailments that are like easily
treated with access to like modern nutrition and and even
like minimal health care. So like we just don't see
them often in the United States, um, and a lot
of them are like on the face and and really

(30:25):
terrible and clearly like very very uncomfortable for the people.
And there it's just like this horrible consequence of their
the unspeakable poverty and suffering. And here when people wind
up with like giant holes on their face, it's generally
because they've decided to like they've gotta self treat their
cancer um, which is sometimes also caused by a lack

(30:47):
of resources. But the fact that this takes off like
a fucking rocket in Australia, where they have national health
care is evidence that like sometimes people just like to
do it. It's really weird. There's that are Yeah, I
know a little bit better than most people. Yeah yeah,
I'm I'm smarter enough than everyone else that I can
take I'm the right one to deal with my cancer.

(31:09):
I didn't get to upper management at McDonald's for being
a dona. Give me something black set, Yeah, right on
them testicles there might be. I want to know if
there's cancer there. And since it only burns cancer, I'm
glad it hurts like yeah, so um yeah. Caton was

(31:34):
initially hard for the FDA to track He sold Cancima
through a company called the Lumen Food Corporation, but actually
shipped Canciema through another company, Alpha Omega Labs, which was
registered in of all places, the Bahamas. Yeah. By two
thousand three, the FDA had entangled this all and tracked

(31:55):
Caton down to a residence in an industrial site in
Lake Charles, Louisiana, which is is where you want to
headquarter your fake burn people's skin off operation. Yeah, So
the FDA rated his location and they found a huge
amount of cancima as well as a giant cash of

(32:15):
miss branded and unapproved drugs. Among that cash were sixteen
fifty five gallon drums of a liquid corrosive material eventually
identified as sulfuric acid. What what I mean, Billy, That's
not a whole lot of sulfuric acid, Like there's you know,
let's see here, sixteen times fifty five. That's just eight

(32:39):
and eighty gallons of sulfuric acid, Billy. Well, and it's
not highly corrosive. So no, And in fact, Capton had
labeled the acid non corrosive, which meant that his employees
didn't use proper safety. Michael Scott it's awesome. It's it's

(33:00):
my selling face burning cream. And I one guess as
to what he was doing with the sulfuric acid. I
think this guy was watering down his blood root with
just straight up of acid. He's cool. I love him now.
In addition to the drugs in the acid, and and
I mean that in the way that is the least

(33:22):
fun way that that sentence can be read. Um. Yeah,
neither the drugs nor the acid are fun. Uh. The
FDA also turned up a small pile of weapons, three
semi automatic rifles, one bolt action rifle, two shotguns, a pistol,
several sets of body armor which had been concealed inside
a hidden compartment. Now, since Katon was already a convicted

(33:42):
felon due to prior schemes that had gotten him convicted
of felonies, uh, he was arrested on possession of firearms
because that was the most illegal part of the face
burning operation. You know, that went on the back burner
so well that you can even they're like, listen, yeah,
the face burning thing is like that's people are keep

(34:03):
david that. But the good Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's
just it's so American. It's the most American anything can
possibly be. Yeah. So he goes to prison for about
five years or so. Um, and he does his time.
He gets out and he moves immediately to Ecuador. Well

(34:25):
I will bet he is allowed to own guns again. Um. Yeah,
or at least he owns guns again. Uh. So he
continued to operate Alpha Omega Labs from Ecuador, and it
is in business to this day selling black save all
over the world with nary a care for the FDA.
Today you can buy twenty two grams of black save
for nine from Alpha Omega Labs his own website. Their

(34:48):
company tagline is the triumph of medical science over politics
and greed. Uh And while I might quibble a little
bit with that, it is probably accurate to say that
the black sav makers have triumphed over the f D
A at least, yes they have. Yeah. I'm curious who
in prison told him about Ecuadoor. Yeah, I'm gonna guess

(35:09):
a lot of people. Yeah, because that's like it's so clear,
like he went in and there and he's like, you're
the last things. It burns people, but they love it.
And Ecuador. Yeah, that is the place for you, friend.
It's a moment in blow. Tell me what do you

(35:32):
know about cocaine? Tell me what do you know about Equador?
You go on, you go on. So uh yeah, So
he gets out of jail, he starts selling this stuff
from Ecuador, and you know, the first couple of years
it's it's pretty minimal, but it gradually starts to rock
it up and rock it up in the mid odds

(35:53):
after like especially two thousand twelve or so, uh and
the cuprit As to why Black Saves started to grow
in popularity again in the last few years, uh is,
of course Facebook. Over the last decade, Black sav has
leapt out of relative obscurity and into a prominent position
within the alt medical ecosystem. Numerous Facebook groups with names

(36:14):
like Black sav Healing Support Group provide opportunities for thousands
of sick people to urge each other to burn their
problems away with poison. I'm gonna quote now from a
BuzzFeed article on the matter. A Facebook spokesperson told BuzzFeed
that these groups don't violate its community guidelines. This summer,
it launched an initiative to address exaggerated or sensational health
claims and will downrank that content in the news feed.

(36:35):
Similar to how it handles clickbait, but it's not clear
how it defines what a sensational health claim is setting
user privacy. Facebook would not say whether or not it
had downranked the black sav groups and the news feed.
Other platforms have taken a different approach. When BuzzFeed News
asked Youthtube about several videos where people discussed using black
sav YouTube said the videos were in violation and remove them. Amazon,

(36:56):
which does not sell the sav itself, removed a book
about black Save when BuzzFeed News asked about it. So
this is a case where like even normally really irresponsible people,
you can find so many books on Amazon right now
about the coronavirus um. But even they were like, we
we shouldn't let people, we shouldn't enable this, right, this
crosses a line. But fucking Facebook, they're on board with it,

(37:20):
of course, or like our community gotlines strictly said if
you get enough clicks, yeah, whatever you want exactly. And
one of the amazing things about the coronavirus outbreak, like
they just Facebook just cut um the live video stream
from the President of Brazil, Jay Bilsonaro, because he was

(37:41):
he was just lying, particularly about the same thing our
president was lying about that, um, that fucking quinine derivative
medication that that he says as a cure, and they
just cut his feed. And we're also, I'm starting to
winder one of a couple of things finally happened. One
of them is just that this was finally serious enough
that it spooked them into acting like a respectable member
of the community. The other is that the large majority

(38:03):
of Facebook employees, and I've known a number of them,
are are decent, perfectly decent, reasonable people who have a
lot of issues with certain things. Um, And maybe the
sheer fucked uppedness of the situation meant that that group
was finally able to push for some changes, and we'll

(38:24):
see more of them. I'm interested in whether or not
they change any of their other ways and get more
responsible from here on out, or if they're just panicked
about coronavirus because they're worried that a lot of them
are going to die. I don't know, we'll see. Well,
usually that should come from the top down, and I
don't see marky Mark changing his white Yeah, I mean

(38:47):
it often does, but also like it's such a big company,
like I highly doubt Mark Mark Zuckerberg never got asked
about fucking black staff. That decision was made below him.
That's because it's not we're not talking about enough of
Like I think that when you talk about like right
wing disinformation. Mark has been in a number of those
calls where they've decided, no, we leave these people who
keep lying on But um, yeah, I don't think black

(39:10):
save is something he winds up getting consulted about. You know,
it's a problem, but it's not. There's billions of Facebook users, right, Well,
I just made the cutting of the president's feet. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
that had to have been the final call. Was someone
at the top for sure? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
And I'm saying like, just letting all most of the

(39:32):
ship go is probably still going to happen because he's
just a I think at this point of mego mania. Yeah,
I mean, we're all gonna learn a lot over the
next year. Well I should let me let me rephrase that,
those of us that survive are all going to learn
a lot. So uh. In their investigation into black Save

(39:57):
on Facebook, BuzzFeed found seven different Facebook groups for black
saff discussioned visible in search results. The largest of these
groups had twenty one members, which is too many members
for a burn your own face off fan group. Now,
most of these are invite only groups, but the sort
of people who use magical good to burn away their
cancer are not super great at vetting new members. So

(40:19):
Facebook was able to get into a number of these groups,
and once they were inside, they were able to collect
horrifying stories of black sav applications gone wrong. Quote. A
woman recently posted photos to a private group of a
spot on her cheek that she had applied black sab
seven times, asking if she should keep applying after it
used pus several times. The next post was from a
man and featured photos of a large wound on his

(40:40):
ribs and the scab that had fallen off, and the
comments someone wrote, impressive, you're really burned a hole in
your side there? Good job, that's good. Yeah, I mean
it is a little bit like I've known some people
who are into like sort extreme like self torture kind

(41:03):
of stuff for erotic purposes and watched some like yeah,
I mean you are fucking you are. That's a lot
of holes in your back that you're hanging yourself. Good good.
I had a friend and good stand up. Yeah, I
mean from two hooks for fifteen minutes. Yeah. And one
of the difference is that those communities actually are incredibly

(41:23):
health and security conscious and are doing something that is
fundamentally has some dangers in the safest way possible, as
opposed to ripping holes in their side with poison to
try to cure themselves. Uh. Yeah. So in two thousands seventeen,
a woman posted on that member Facebook group that she

(41:44):
had put black staff on her breast to kill a tumor.
When she bent over, She says she heard a popping
noise and blood and puss poured out. She went to
the emergency room, where she was put on ivy antibiotics.
Three months later, she wrote an update to say that
she was now being treated for her can here by
a traditional oncologist. So these are the kind of tales
we find it popped billy fuck good stuff, awesome stuff like.

(42:11):
So she went there before and then yeah, she found
out she had cancer, decided I can take care of
this cancer, and then did not take care of this
cancer and decided I should consult a real doctor again.
I mean, she's lucky. Yes, Well, we don't know if
she lived in the long run, but yeah, that didn't

(42:34):
kill her, that's yes, yes, absolutely. To make matters worse,
recent investigations have shown that black SEV can actually make
non deadly cancers into life threatening cancers. There is evident
like basil cell carcinoma, for example, is not does not
normally metastasize, um, but it does metastasize with some regularity

(42:54):
if you put a mutagenet compound on it. And black
SEV is a mutagenet compound which can cause is it
to go rogue in the words of one oncologists and
spread to other parts of the body. So this thing
that like normally isn't going to be a life threatening cancer,
blacks have actually makes into a life threatening cancer. So
that's cool. I mean, I mean, it's just that thing

(43:16):
is like you can hear somebody sailing it and they're like, wow, man,
I don't know if that steff will work on me,
and and the salesman's like, it can't make it worse.
It made it worse. Actually, yeah, you are going to
die now, um. And it's it's awesome, billy. I mean,

(43:37):
what's good about this is that, um, you know, basil
cel carcinoma was in the old days kind of the
most common thing that black staff was applied to, but now,
thankfully because so many great grifters have put effort into
convincing people that it cures internal cancers. A lot of
people use it for internal cancers. Um, so that's good, right, Yeah,

(44:00):
people aren't Yeah yeah, water No. In a Facebook group
named blood Root discussion group, BuzzFeed found a woman who
in two thousand, fifteen and sixteen posted frequently about taking
black Saven pillform and topically to treat her ovarian cancer.

(44:21):
Her last post was in two thousand sixteen, asking if
it was normal to pass lumps vaginally. Sometime later, another
member of the group posted to inform the others that
she had died. So that's good and cool. Don't you
shouldn't pass lumps that way. Also in two thou seventeen,

(44:41):
a woman named April started documenting her self breast cancer
treatments with black Save on YouTube. She claims to have
done some chemo, but declined surgery or radiation preferring and
said to treat herself with black sav. She posted fourteen
videos of the course of nearly two years, uploading her
last video in early two thousand nineteen. Four months after
that video was uploaded, her son commented on it to

(45:03):
tell her viewers that his mother had died. Now, those
videos had not been removed as of the publication of
the BuzzFeed article. They have since been taken down by YouTube,
but YouTube was perfectly happy to leave these this this
whole trail of videos up. Um wow, so that's good.
Also taken down from YouTube in the wake of that
article was a popular video titled I Removed four breast

(45:25):
cancer tumors using black salve. So you can you can
see the pattern here pretty well. When big media companies
expose this stuff, it gets taken down. But YouTube and Facebook, no,
they're pretty safe on waiting to take action until people
get angry, since their only obligation is to their shareholders
and not the health of their users or the health
of the broader society, which is a good way for
things to work. Yeah yeah, Now, Billy, you know who

(45:52):
does have a great responsibility to broader society and it's users. Yes,
McDonald's and all of the other products and services that
support this podcast a lot of responsibility, Billy, We're back.

(46:17):
So the expansion of black saff through the well worn
tunnels of the global fake news ecosystem has opened up
a market that's now a lot larger than it was
in simpler times when Greg Katon was hoarding rifles and
sulfuric acid in Louisiana. I do miss those days. In
April of two seventeen, the FDA sent out warning letters
to a number of Black sav makers. They arrested an

(46:38):
Amish seller in Kentucky and sentenced him to six years
in prison. But companies like Alpha Omega based in countries
that don't extradite to the US keep a steady supply
flowing into the country, and Facebook groups provide a place
for users to discuss where they can still buy the
sav or make it for themselves. This is all just great,
and as awareness of black staff has spread, so too

(46:59):
have its non unprescribed prescribed uses. Black sav advocates now
used to self treat acne and moles, and they've even
formulated deluded versions to use his vaginal douches and enemas.
Because if there's anything that makes a good vaginal douche,
it's something that burns off layers of your skin. So

(47:22):
what if we made douching a worse idea? Yeah, it's awesome. God, Yeah,
I'm in pain just from here now. It's okay. I
support using this as an enema. You should all enimate
your stuff with as often as possible. That's just good
basic medical self. Yeah. It just pieces of it just

(47:46):
drop out and then you're good to go whenever. M hm.
You know. One of the best ways traditionally to lose weight, Billy,
is to have large sections of your colon and small
intestine removed surgically. Yeah. They're heavy, they're heavy exactly. Get
rid of those love handles. So uh yeah. People are

(48:09):
now selling this as douches and enemas. And one example
of how this is marketed comes from the it's awesome Sophie.
Let's not be judgmental about a healthy and good thing.
I'm somewhere in between. You good, that's good. The middle
is always where the truth lies horrible. One example of
how this is marketed is the website for Two Feathers

(48:30):
Healing Formula, a popular Black sav variant. Here's how they
sell it on their website. Two Feathers Healing Formula is
a unique American Indian herbal compound that has reached through
time over several hundred years to meet the needs of
an ailing civilization today. It is like a time capsule
sent to us from a distant past when knowledge was
more of the spirit than of the intellect. There's a

(48:52):
great sincerity in respect for this healing formula at every
stage of its preparation. That is that is impressive. Yeah,
it's awesome. Like the writer in me is like, I'm
not mad at that. That's just beautiful. That's that's the
smart way. Yeah. They go on to note those of

(49:14):
us who handle this compound, including myself, feel blessed to
be part of an age old right that is indeed
very special, still produced in the original Native American manner,
synergistically blended with spiritual intent. Wow. Native Americans big on synergy. Also, also,

(49:34):
they were healing people by the spirit, not yeah, it's like, no,
they were noticing worked and what didn't work. Yeah, they
were noticing that, boy, in this age, we don't have
any other options. Sometimes you can burn off in external cancer.
And then white people were like, what if we mix
that thing they were using with nine other stuff that

(49:56):
just burns even more And we just light a people
and say it's the same thing and it's still going
on today, and that rules Billy, Yeah, we play a
drum in the background. Yeah. Oh yeah, call it feather something. Yeah,
two feathers. Yeah, so two feathers. They have all this,
like two paragraphs talking about how special an age old

(50:18):
and and why is this formula is And immediately below
all those lines on the website are the bolded words
enema or douche. Uh. It's awesome, Billy, it is awesome.
I'm not even okay, here's I'm not mad at this

(50:41):
one because the information is there. The information is almost
always there though, and it never seems to matter. I know. Yeah,
my dad not talked about this too. He's like people
are He's like, it's a go. He's like, we have
all the answers to all our questions in our phones

(51:04):
in our pocket, and people are still walking around like
they know everything. And I was like, that's good stuff.
So um. The the article on two Feathers that talks
about how this stuff is handed out or its talks

(51:26):
about how to use this stuff as as a douche
or an enema closes that section by noting, quote, if
the wound has opened and a pus like substance is
being released, then the compound is left on the skin
until all the pus like substance has been released in
the compound falls off the skin of its own accord.
When the releasing process is complete, nanosilver or colloidal silver

(51:47):
can be sprayed over the open wound. Do not cover
an opening with compound that is releasing pus or toxins.
So that's good. I you see what they're doing there
is like, what's happening is that you've you're burning your
skin off and pus in all sorts of horrible things
are building up around it to try to protect this open,

(52:08):
burning wound and your body. And they're being like, no, no, no,
it's a releasing, it's a releasing of toxins. It's not
your body desperately trying to protect you from your own stupid,
like foolishness. Um. The only good thing about this is
that I guess spreading nano silver over a massive open
wound isn't the absolute worst thing you can do. But

(52:30):
this is all just a bad idea, um, a horrible idea.
So two Feathers goes on to advise, Yeah, it's just crazy. Yeah,
it's I think the first question they must ask any
of these people are like, did you quit school or

(52:52):
did you stop paying attention in uh in science class
around fifth or sixth grade? And if they're like yes,
they're like come in, come on in. It seems to
be like a basic misunderstanding of basic science. Yeah, I
think it's and I think it's not a misunderstanding. I
think it's that a lot of people have like a
deeply inbred hatred of if not all science, then medical

(53:15):
science because of the things they read and the communities
they're raised in. And when there is no when you
you don't trust science, you only trust individuals who have
convinced you their healers. Like those individuals can can get
you to buy into an awful lot of terrible things.
I think that really is where at all it all,

(53:37):
like all almost all of our modern problems that were
like all terrified with right now, from the reason people
aren't taking the coronavirus things seriously to fucking incipient fascism,
like they all come from this root of the fact
that there's no shared acceptance of reality anymore amongst a
large chunk of the population. And that's also kind of

(53:57):
where this comes from. It is just like this this
stuff takes root in a community of people who have
stopped believing in a baseline level of the reality the
rest of us believe in. Yeah, and on top of that,
schools stop teaching, thank you, And maybe I shouldn't have
stopped that, And we're now we're in a society that

(54:21):
requires constant critical thinking to see what the truth is
and people aren't trained to do that. Yep. So Two
Feathers goes on to advise its users that their black
Save may be used with a toothbrush for healthy teeth
and gums. I can't. It's like, it's like two guys

(54:42):
being like, let's see how far we can get people
to do this. What things can we convince them to burn?
Before the FDA came after Two Feathers in two thousand five,
they even hosted testimonials on their website where people would
tout the efficacy of black sav at treating basil carcinoma,
which you may recall is the cancer that only metastasizes
if you put something like black Save on it um

(55:04):
or not only, but is unlikely to unless. So you
can currently find Two Feathers healing formula all over Facebook.
So the FDA coming after them once again did not
stop them from doing their thing. It just cut down
on how they could advertise it. One page with the
misspelled name two Feathers Healing Formals Formulas has more than

(55:26):
six hundred followers. Another page I found held an interview
with Robert Roy, who apparently runs the company. Roy claims
to have treated more than sixty five thousand people with
his salve to date. The two Feathers website also has
links to a book, ha I Laugh in the Face
of Cancer by Susan Liberty Hall. I love the fucking

(55:48):
names man, Susan Liberty Hall. I don't. The Buddhist in
me is like, you better stop cancer. Yeah. Yes, Susan
Liberty Hall will teach you how to liberate your nose
from your face. Um. And, by the way, Susan Liberty
Hall's book, How I Laugh in the Face of Cancer
is still available on Amazon dot Com as of the

(56:09):
publication of this episode. Yeah, and Jeff Ross's grossed Cancer
Away is gonna be I mean that's just good sense.
You can burn cancer. I can cure anybody's metastasized cancer
with enough fire. There are additional consequences to the fire,
but the cancer will be dealt with. You know, some

(56:30):
side effects, Yeah, did he die of first degree burns? Yes?
Did he die of cancer? No? Nope? And you know what,
that cancer not growing no more. Didn't need to use
any chemo. So if you have any available on your
way out, yeah, you can send me right now for

(56:54):
a copy of my new book, Treat Your Cancer with
a Bonfire. There's one step jump in that bonfire, right, well,
you gotta make the bonfire. But yeah, okay, two steps. Sorry,
you're right, billy. And it's pretty handy too, because you
have books with scary knowledge, you can also get rid
of them in the same part if the FDA actually

(57:14):
does something about our treat people's cancer with Bonfire's plan.
So as dumb as all of this black sav nonsense seems,
we do live in a country where cancer forces roughly
fort of people who get it to exhaust their entire
life savings paying to treat it. And with the stakes
that high, and trust in the medical establishment and any

(57:34):
kind of establishment so low, it's no wonder that people
prefer burning themselves to death to going broke using real medicine.
And I guess this isn't so surprising in the hell
world that we Americans have decided to live in for
some reason. But outside of the US, in the lands
where medicine is socialized, black save is still really fucking popular.
It is particularly well loved in Australia, despite being very

(57:57):
much illegal there. And this brings me to the unfortunate
story of Helen Lawson. And this is not you and
I's first story of a woman dying horribly in Australia
due to a quack doctor um and it will not
be the last. Billy are you? Are you ready for
this fun tale? Sure, good, good man? All right? So

(58:17):
Helen Lawson was not, on paper, the sort of person
you'd expect to fall for a grift like this. She
was an e R nurse and a competition cyclist. But
in January of two thousand seventeen, she found a lump
on her pelvis. Unfortunately, Helen chose to ignore it and
hope for the best. By October of that year, it
had spread to her ovaries, so now she had ovarian cancer.

(58:37):
She was booked for surgery to remove it, but at
the very last minute she canceled her appointment. The reason
she canceled this appointment to get an actual doctor to
remove her cancer was that a natural medicine practitioner named
Dennis Wayne Jensen had gotten his hooks in her. Helen
had gone to him after getting diagnosed, and he'd convinced
her that the surgery would do nothing to help her. Fortunately,

(58:59):
Jin had already cured his own brain cancer and the
cancers of hundreds of other patients, and he was able
to assure Helen that he knew what she needed. Black Salve.
It's weird that you can't trust with the middle named Wayne. No,
it is. It is that never happens. I will say.

(59:20):
One of the key things to note if you're trying
to avoid grifters is anyone who says a variation of
the phrase cured my own brain and then blank, probably
something you have to back away from. Brain go on, okay,
then so um yeah yeah. Now. Helen's romantic partner of

(59:44):
twenty one years, Belenda Davis uh, claims that she was
kind of, uh really really skeptical of Jensen from the beginning,
and she later recalled this to the Age quote. She said,
Jensen said, the surgery is not going to work, and
I'm just a number to them, and the Black Save
will draw the cancer, and the Black Save will do
what the surgeons can't. I had a huge fight with her.
I was just saying, this is insane. Give yourself a chance,

(01:00:06):
for God's sake, just give yourself a chance. And uh yeah.
The the the argument that this fake doctor was making, which
was that real doctors wouldn't treat her well and that
the cancer the black sav would would would draw out
the cancer anyway, that that worked. And for weeks Belinda
would drive her partner to Jensen's home outside of Melbourne

(01:00:27):
and watches he put his hands on the gigantic sore
left on her belly by the black salve, which ate
away at her flesh every single day. Quote, he put
his hands on her stomach and he would breathe out
like he was trying to blow away to cancer, telling
us that the cancer was gone and there was only
a tiny bit still there. Belinda SAIDs and here she
was so swollen and distended and just unbelievably ill. So

(01:00:49):
Jensen eventually had his patient applied black save all over
her stomach, rotting the skin away and covering her belly
and the top part of her groin and what looked
like third degree burns. It is impossible to say for
sure if surgery would have saved Helen's life, but we
can say to a point of certainty that black SAV
did not, and because of Jensen's treatment, Helen spent the

(01:01:10):
last month of her life rotting away in unspeakable agony.
And in the true tradition of bullshit medical scam artists
the world over, Jensen refused he even pretend to have
learned a lesson from this tragedy from the age quote. Jensen, however,
insists that black SAV works and is not an improved
mainstream treatment because pharmaceutical companies can't make any money off

(01:01:31):
of it. They don't want black SAV on the market
because it cares cancer, he said. In an interview with
Fairfax Media on Monday, the self proclaimed healer said he
recently cared a man of terminal cancer in his neck
and had also healed a woman's ovaries. Actually put my
hand on her tully over the obaries, and I was
able to heal the ovaries so she could have a baby,
he said. He also said that he did not charge

(01:01:52):
for his services or ask for money, a claim disputed
by Belinda, who said he made it clear he expected
a donation once Helen recovered. So I'm angry at a
lot here. I'm angry at this guy Jensen for torturing
a sick woman to death. I'm agree at those newspapers
for just like running those quotes of his, Like I'm
sure they thought that it would sound silly enough that

(01:02:14):
people would would get that he was, but they don't.
And you shouldn't. You shouldn't just let him talk like
that without you shouldn't know, you shouldn't. And so it's
it's wild to me, and I think it just kind
of shows like what where our brains go when we're

(01:02:34):
fighting for our lives that a registered nurse and a
competitive cyclist like like those people are very aware of
their bodies and to be like nah, no, I mean
it's also that putting away. It sounds like she was
like I think I know what this is and I'm

(01:02:56):
just gonna ignore it. Yeah, it does sound like she
was like in denial about what she had and was like,
if I don't treat this normal, it's not really happening. Yeah,
And I'm sure there's some aspect of that, and like, yeah,
it's yeah, it's just a sad story and a really

(01:03:17):
infuriating story, and it's a story where the bad guy
in it uh, only gets the kind of minimal consequences
that I think we've come to expect from these guys.
And the wake of Helen's death, Jensen was temporarily forbidden
from seeing any patients in August if he has an
eighteen that was expanded to an indefinite prohibition against providing
any medical advice or treatment. Um, I'm sure he's being

(01:03:40):
more careful now, but I am a hundred percent sure
he is still giving medical advice for money to some
groups of people. Yeah, yeah, that's just what these people do.
You unless you lock this kind of person away, like
I'm sorry. There there's a tiny chunk of people who
actually do need to be restricted from being around other people.
And I don't think drug dealers and robbers, and I

(01:04:03):
don't think most people who go to prison are but
this kind of person. And it's the same kind of
person Paul Maniford is. He's just not as smart or successful. Um.
Where they will poison the people around them one way
or another, no matter what happens. If they are allowed
to circulate in society, they will. They are incapable of
doing anything but poisoning the people around them. Well, it's there.

(01:04:25):
It's like a pure sociopath. Not necessarily a psychopath, but
like a sociopath. You're right, they need to be removed
from society because they just keep you know. It's it's
it's something because there's a lot of there's a lot
of sociopaths who are perfectly capable of existing in society

(01:04:46):
and not hurting people. Um, it's something. Yeah, there's something
about this need. It's like we talked about with with
Old tree Head. Um are are essential oils doctor? This
need to be seen as a doctor without actually learning
anything about it. This like desire to practice medicine. That

(01:05:06):
seems to be the most important thing to them, even
above making money. Is they want to make medicine. I
don't describe what this is. It just hint me. Like
I've especially in Hollywood, you deal with people that have
like inherited a ton of money, so now they want
to be in this business person whatever. And they'll come

(01:05:27):
in and be like I'm a producer on this and
you're like, no, you're just a guy with a lot
of money, and they're like their whole thing is like
if you point out that they don't know what they're doing,
that's that'll route that makes them matter than not knowing
what they're doing, because pointed out that this part, like

(01:05:52):
their whole show, is like I just I need everyone
to tell me on this thing. And if you tell
me I'm not this thing, fuck, I don't care about
the results going around me that the truth is, I'm
not this thing. I just need to feel and have
this illusion that I'm a doctor or whatever, and I

(01:06:13):
will never stop no matter any facts or results. I'll
just keep going. Yeah, that is my whole thing and
it's awesome. So there's no upside to this story, Billy.
But to make it a little bit more palatable, I
do have a picture of Jensen, and it is might
be the only one of him, I guess because it's
the picture that every single news article uses of him. Sophie,

(01:06:36):
can you send it? And it's It is not the
kind of picture you normally see used as the picture
for somebody in an article, which is why I think
it might just be one of the only ones they have.
It looks like the photo he took when he was
like he had to take a photo for Skype and
he just used his phone to click a shot of himself. Um,
let me know when you get it. Oh wow, just

(01:06:59):
think that's pretty great, right, Like, it looks like he
took a picture of himself in the middle of like
looking for sasquatch. He's this like bearded guy clearly in
the woods taking a blurry picture of half of his
face with a cell phone. Yeah, it's like he just
got his phone and he's trying to figure out what
it does. It looks like it was taken on a

(01:07:21):
razor phone. Yeah. And that is the photo of record
for this man when he has covered in the news,
which I do think is a good call. I think
he's very I think he's way smarter than he's letting on.
So Black Save is still available all over the internet.
You can you can't buy it on Amazon, but you
can buy it from Alpha Omega and from two Rivers.

(01:07:42):
Amazon does, however, sell books that teach you how to
use it and make it. And of course, there are
numerous Facebook groups, closed and open, where rubes advise each
other on the best ways to permanently scar themselves and
metastasize their carcinomas. And as for Dennis Wayne Jensen, he's
still forbidden from pretending to be a doctor. But don't
you worry. By late two thousand eighteen, he'd moved on
to getting in trouble, from impersonating a doctor to impersonating

(01:08:05):
a lawyer. So he's he's he's he's still rolling right along,
and I have a feeling we'll be hearing from him
more in the future without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah, he
sounds like somebody's probably represent Carol Baskins or something. Yeah.
I think he's still looking for his real big grift

(01:08:26):
that justifies the whole episode. But I I have faith
in in him, Yeah, because they're not quitters. He doesn't. Yeah,
and he does a little bit more, and he will
be this podcast number two person with Wayne as a
middle name. Ah mm hmm. I mean I've lived that

(01:08:48):
my whole life. You're learning healing. Yeah, it's the three
names thing. That's me so billy. Yeah, how are you
feeling today? I mean this one was. Some of them
are funnier, but this one was. I don't know why.
I think it's because you can kind of understand why

(01:09:12):
all these people keep doing this. Yes, well you mean
that people who keep burning themselves, Yes, not the people
that sail it. No, I don't. I can't. I can't
keep behind. I mean I understand money, but this is
more than money because some of them aren't making that
much money at it. Yeah, but I understand that. Like

(01:09:33):
in the beginning, I was like, how are these dummies?
How could you ever get fooled like this? But then
you just think you're just like you don't want it
to be true. What's happening to you and the reality
of like, well, I'm want to try all this before
spending all my family's money. Yeah, Like cancer treatment generally

(01:09:56):
sucks and is unpleasant, and it's also expensive. And if
you can give yourself a treatment that feels like maybe
it's working because it also sucks and is unpleasant, but
it's cheaper. I yeah, you know, I I get white
people make that call, even though it's objectively the wrong
call and bad and like dumb, not in like the

(01:10:18):
flippant sense of like being insulting, but just like, no,
this is a horrible idea and a bad thing to
do to yourself. But we all it's it's like an
extension of I'm sure everybody and this happens more as
you get older, has like weird little things they notice
about their body that you're like probably out of talk
to a doctor about that. Huh, Like there's a there's

(01:10:40):
a germ of that in all of us. Um. But yeah,
boy hattie, Well it's because it's it's you're you've gotten.
They're taking advantage of people with the death sense, which
is the hardest part for me. Yeah, but like the

(01:11:00):
essential oils and all that stuff, Like it's just some
of its people being vain something, you know what I mean.
So they're taking advantage of that part of human But
this is like people who are like, you're gonna die
if you don't do something, and this is like that's
for whatever reason for me, that's like it's super fucked up. Yeah,

(01:11:23):
like almost rather you go, you're selling one bullet to
these people, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's it's
m speaking of selling a single bullet, Billy. Do you
have any things you'd like to plug? I do. I've
been working on a cannabis podcast called Grown Local that

(01:11:46):
is about the people and communities and not like you know,
like the business part of it. It's like the people
have been growing it and the community it makes up,
uh in these different The first the first place we
go to is Eugene, Oregon, and it's coming out April
which is pretty significant for we because it's Hitler's birthday.

(01:12:11):
But it is and Hitler Hitler was a famous medical
marijuana advoct. He loved it, he loved it. He was
hyped up on math. Then just come right down, you know.
Ye kind of thinking process. That's why I did make
a mistakes, um, and that's yeah, famously, that's all. I've
always loved that four twenty thing when people like you

(01:12:33):
can to celebrate for twenty and then other people are
like Hitler's birthday, and right, that is that's pretty funny.
That is the day. Yeah. Well, well, you know what
isn't Hitler's birthday is my presence on Twitter. You can
find me there at I right, Okay, you can find
this podcast in its sources behind the Bastards dot com.

(01:12:56):
You can find us on t public, where you can
buy shirts that are absolutely imp regnated with both nano
silver and acid that only burns your cancer. So if
you put on one of our shirts and it burns
your skin away, all of that skin was cancer and
you need to send us an extra ye. You can
also find our sources by scrolling down under the episode

(01:13:18):
description on all your apps. Yeah, you sure can there's
tons of ways to find our sources, and there's tons
of ways for you to stay sane well enduring the pandemic.
But the only real way is by listening to the
podcast that I produce, which are all medically guaranteed to

(01:13:40):
keep you mentally. I don't know this bit. Robert is
actually saying, it's over for this podcast. Wisten to worst
you ever listen to the Women's War and um listen
to Billy zero New Cannabis podcast when it when it
comes out. That's what he was saying. That's really what
you met, right, Robert, podcasts will say this and nothing
else will. Now the episode is over. Fine, h m

(01:14:12):
hm