Circus Trains

While it might sound strange, moving a circus via rail actually made sense. Entire towns would gather to mark the passage of cars packed with tents, animals, clowns and more. Tune in to learn more about circus trains from the golden age to the modern day.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Go behind the wheel, under the hood and beyond with
car stuff from house stuff works dot Com. Welcome aboard. No,
I'm kidding. We're not a circus train. We're car stuff.
I'm Ben Bulling and I'm Scott. Benjamin and Scott. Today
we are, however, talking about circus trains. Yeah, we've got

(00:24):
some pretty interesting stuff that we've turned up about circus trains.
I think a lot of people maybe don't even consider this.
They just don't even think about how a circus moves
from city to city really, Yeah, because we typically picture
a circus as being hauled on you know, caravans or
a convoy of buses and trucks. Yeah, you would think

(00:44):
that when the circus comes into town that it was
it would likely arrive with you know, like a like
a big rock concert tour or something, you know, with
fifteen semi trucks and um, you know, multiple busses for
the performers, and you know that they just kind of
gather up people and people arrive and leave as they want.
But that's not the case. In fact, um what they
call a circus train, as a matter of fact, is
they call it a town without a zip code. Have

(01:07):
you heard that. Yes, there's a great New York Times
article from uh I think the author's name is let
me find it here Barnard. Uh A. Barnard writes about
some families that live on these circus trains and Scott
these trains can have more than two fifty or so
people living on the train. That's pretty amazing. And the

(01:30):
thing is that they're entirely self sufficient. Now, when we
kind of started to think about this, I mean I
came to you with the idea and said we should
talk about circus trains because I don't know, I saw
a photo somewhere or something something sparked the memory that
we know we need to do this. I've never seen
one personally. Have you ever seen one? I have not
seen one in action, however, uh I have seen one

(01:52):
at a train yard outside of a circus town, like
it was part So that's pretty cool. Yeah, we were,
we were driving by, but at that Joe was much
more excited about going to the actual circus. Yeah, I
can imagine. And you know they do park, you know,
nearby the venue as close as they can. Um And
there's something kind of interesting. I want to you know what,
I'm gonna kind of tease this a little bit. Okay,
there's a there's something pretty interesting that happens just before

(02:15):
the circus when the train arrives into town. That, um,
I think people will find it interesting. I really didn't
know that it went on, but I'm gonna look for
this next time. Yeah. And with that tease, I'm going
to put in a little bit of history about circus training.
Sure is that good? Yeah? Alright? So one of the
first people who had the idea of transporting a circus

(02:37):
by rail was a guy named Dr Gilbert Spalding. Now
you found out about this guy, right, yeah, Gila, we're
talking like out of the eighteen fifties. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
in uh eighteen fifties. Six he took his circus he owned,
he owned a small circus, uh, and he took it
on nine railroad cars, uh for a tour. Now, these

(02:58):
railroad cars were built by James Gold and Sons, an
Albany company. This, um, this stuff was custom built because
the nine cars that he was taking would need to
go over rails that possibly had different gauges. See that's
the problem with these early trains, right, none of them
were consistent in size, shape, you know what they what

(03:20):
they could haul. Um so, you know, there's a lot
of obstacles I guess in the way of moving something
like this around town. They're not around town across country.
And let's also keep in mind that at the time
the roads across country were not necessarily better than the
rail no, because you're talking about wagon trails at that point, right,
because that's your choice, either have a wagon or you

(03:41):
have a train. Really and and that's about it. This
predates the automobile obviously. Um So you know, there's there's
really nothing permanent in the solution that he had in
in using a train at this point, because there was
no way to get fully across the country either at
that point, I believe in the eighteen fifties, um, because
there wasn't you know, the Golden Spike thing, you know,

(04:03):
when they joined the join the trans Continental. Yeah, exactly,
so that that that didn't happen for some time yet.
But um so there were points where you know, you
have to unload from the train, take a wagon, caravan
the rest of the way, or walk or whatever they did.
Right Like when it's it reminds me of when people
in a boating expedition, right or going down a river,

(04:24):
have to take portage and pick up their canoes and
walk su and uh what what we're trying to paint
the picture of here is a world in which rail
travel was a a an unorthodox alternative to the typical thing.
Because even the really well known circuses previous to this,

(04:47):
we're hauling their stuff town to town wagon wheel by
wagon wheel like everybody else. And can I just mention
this here? What a site that must have been, right?
I mean, can you imagine because you think about the
old old you know, the old depictions of animal wagons,
uh you know, their cages on wheels. You know, they
have wagon wheels. They're carried by you know, ox or

(05:08):
or horkings or whatever scenes the horses that are performers
in the in the show itself oftentimes. Yeah, yeah they
did at that time. I'll say it. But you know what,
later I want to get to that too, that the
animals have it actually really good now, and we'll find
out how how well they're treated in these in these
modern versions. But imagine seeing a caravan of um, you know,

(05:28):
these these old time circus wagons with animals out in
the wide open on display, headed down a trail. You
know through the woods or whatever, you know, from town
to town. This must have been really cool for you know,
youngster or even an adult to see this thing arriving
too town. Plus all of the drama and um, you know,
the pageantry and the pomp of the circus arriving. You know,

(05:51):
I'm sure that there were jugglers juggling and you know,
people balancing. Yeah, there was, there was a lot of that.
I mean, it's a it's a real show when it
came to your town. And even even the early days
of the train travel, you know, because they would just
take those wagons those again, those open wagons, load them
onto the trains, onto flatbed train cars and haul these

(06:11):
things around. So if you saw one of these things coming,
you knew that it was a circus train from far
far away. I mean you could tell, you could spot
what was happening. Yes, And I think that we're going
to get to the process of embarking and disembarking for
the for the people on the circus train. One thing
I do want to do to continue the history and

(06:32):
bring it to a bring it up to a more
modern age here. Uh. In eighteen seventy one, a fellow
named William Coope has P. T. Barnum support. Uh, and
so he puts together a traveling circus rail traveling circus. Um.
Until then, this had been moved around like the circus

(06:53):
had been moved with teams of hundreds of horses. Yeah.
And you know they had been on these these other
box cars and you know, just just you know, in
the eighteen fifties, all the way up until eighteen seventy
one or two, which her he said, it was difficult
for them to load them onto the train. It was
difficult for them to to find a permanent solution to this.
And and in eighteen seventy two, that's when this William

(07:13):
Cooper you mentioned, what really sets him apart is that
he developed this new loading system and uh, and that
set this thing into an emotion where it became a
system that we even see today. I mean, this is
something that's that's stuck around um since eighteen seventy two
right through two. Yes, and this system. Uh, it's it's

(07:34):
difficult to perhaps explain in the modern age how much
of a difference this system made. And when we when
we hear about it now, it might sound sort of
self evident, right, but we have to remember that at
the time they this had not been tried. So can
I just say one thing. It was intense in manual

(07:55):
labor because they would load the train the wagons over
the side of the cars on to these flat cars
and uh, and that proved to be very very difficult.
I mean, you can imagine loading each car individually that
way very tough. So what did William do to change
things around? Well, to change this, Uh, he had built
a system of pulling wagons up a ramp and then

(08:19):
putting them on a flat car, so as we know,
that makes it a lot less work intensive. He also
had these plates to bridge every car, so while the
while the flat cars were stationary on the train, there
would be a ramp at the end and you'd start
pulling a wagon up and then you could just pull
it down across multiple cars. So this is so easy,

(08:39):
I mean, it's so elementary when you think about it now.
But they didn't you do this prior they loaded them
one at a time over the edge. Now that now
they go to the very end of the train, the
back end of the train and loaded lengthways. I guess
you look at it as one long continuous platform, right,
what one long container if you will. Yeah, I guess
one long container if it if it was closed. But
what I'm saying is for stacking purpose, correct, correctris purpose,

(09:02):
for tetris purposes, right then, Yeah, So they would the drag,
you know, one team would would drag the wagon up
that small incline and then away for the team to
you know, disembark and head back around to pick up
another load. And another team would drag it all the way,
you know, as far as you know, teams maybe even
on the ground kind of like um almost they would
how they would pull barges down the erie canal rights, uh,

(09:25):
with you know, a team on either side pulling equally,
and they would drag it from the back of the
train to the front of the train as far as
it could go hitch it up, you know, they would
not hitch it up, but rather you know, chock it
in place and then go back to pick up the
next one, and they would load it that way. So
the train ends up being loaded again from from the back,
but it's stacked from front to back. If that makes sense.

(09:46):
It does. And here's something that we should also point out.
The big question here, The implied question is, well, why
figure out this new method of loading trains. Why why
would you mess with this in the beginning. Um, well,
the roads are inconvenient, sure, But there's another problem with
traveling on the roads at this time, and it's that

(10:06):
because these are humans and animals, because they're all living creatures,
they have to stop and sleep, they have to eat,
they have to provide for themselves, which means they have
to go to a lot of small towns that may
not necessarily be able to support a circus. So Barnum
and Coop were thinking, Oh, it makes sense. If we
can just figure out how to make the rail feasible,

(10:28):
then we'll be able to become a much more profitable enterprise. Yeah,
we can go from large town to large town and
skipping the smaller towns in between, and of course the
smaller towns in between. The residents can travel to the
larger towns in order to to you know, witness the spectacle,
I guess, you know, to see everything that goes on.
But they would set up to camp, you know, um,

(10:49):
in these in these bigger towns. I guess that the
train would be the camp. Really they would set up.
They would set up in a larger town and stay
there for longer periods of time. So instead of the
circus coming to town for one or two days, you know,
into small town, they would come to a bigger town
for a week. And uh, and of course P. T. Barnum,
you know, they were thinking that this is the uh,
this is the way to make more money as well. Right,

(11:09):
And as we know, as I guess circus historians know,
Coop and Barnum eventually parted ways. Uh. Barnum sold his
name to several other shows. Coop came back with another
railroad show and he called it the new United Monster Show.
And in eighteen eighty Barnum teamed up with a fellow

(11:29):
named James A. Bailey. Did you say Monster Show? Yeah,
that's pretty cool. United Monster Show. I would go to
see that. Well I would too, we're monster fans. That
would be really cool. Hey, you know what, Um, just
one thing though, I need, I need need to mention
this that Um, you know, it wasn't long after this
that they decided that this whole thing works right, right,
And yeah, and the cool thing and I just kind

(11:51):
of picked this out of the story, is that, Um.
And I man, I think of the year. I'm trying
to think of the year here it was. It was
not long after the the they decided that you know,
this was all gonna work. And you know they've got
the standard gage rail now and you know, I think
it's kind of working so they're able to travel. Um.
They had a brand new car, freshly painted train ordered

(12:12):
that was finally delivered to them. Um. You know it
had um, you know, of course passenger cars. It had
um flat cars for you know, the wagons and some
of the bigger items that couldn't be stacked. UM. And
had sleeping cars of course, you know, for the for
the workers. It had well cut the box cars with storage.
UM had what they called palace cars for the livestock.

(12:32):
This thing must have looked amazing the first one, because
I think about the time when this is happening, think
about how cool the trains were back. I mean, they
just looked neat back then. They did. They had they
had a distinct look that really cool steam trains of course,
And UM, I don't know, I just I wish I
could see that first circus train. There's no real of course,
there's no color photographs of this thing, right, UM, I

(12:54):
don't even know if there's any Uh, there must be
black and white photographs of this first circus train somewhere.
But to spot it and call it out at the
first I just haven't seen that done yet. I'm sure
the first few people who saw it and didn't know
what was happening just sort of stare to gate for
a while because it's it's a very very long train.
Even now we've got we've got some statistics about the

(13:15):
modern age that I guess I'll tease just like a
wake poor thing. Um. But so this takes off, this
idea takes off, and the market for circus trains explodes.
It goes from literally nothing to everyone has to have one.
So they're there are different shows that are owned by
some of the same larger circus corporations, right, and they

(13:40):
have varying, uh, they have varying numbers of cars in
their trains. So there's like Sparks Circus, which is a
little bit smaller, with twenty cars, and then it goes
all the way up to something like Barnum and Bailey
with nine cars. Well you know what they have more
than that? All they had ninety cars in um is

(14:00):
that in total? No, that's in uh, that's nine cars
in nine when they had to have some cut. Okay, okay,
I've got some new statistics. If you want to jump
right into some of these, let me tell you. I
found this information on a site, um that is I
think it's like train web dot dot org, um, train

(14:21):
web dot com. And then there's a Circus train dot Com.
There's all kinds of train sites that will track Circus
trains and they track all kinds of trains as a
matter of fact. I want to talk about that too
in a minute. But um, they had this little lot
of this fact sheet, like a fun fact sheet that
the train gives out as promotional items when they arrive
into town. You know these uh, these train spotters, these

(14:41):
people that uh that that watch trains. Um, you know that. No,
when they're coming into town, they stand by the tracks
with with cameras and video cameras and everything waiting and
they know that these people are there, so they hand
out this information for them. They have press days, they
have all kinds of cool things where you can come
on board and meet the crew and meet the people
that run the train and everything. Um. So they've got

(15:02):
this list of of fun facts of the Barney Barnman
Bailey h Circus train fun facts and um, I mean
it talks about the origin in eighteen seventy sorry, eighteen
seventy two, and it talks about the special special dispensation
that was given to uh Ringley Brothers and Barnama Bailey
in two during World War two that allowed them to

(15:24):
continue to travel on train train even though you know
there was a limitation to that or a restriction on
that at that time. UM. Talks about the nineteen sixties
when uh, this is when they created the two trains
been they have the Red line and the Blue line. Yes,
do you want to do? You want me to go
in detail on the Red and Blue line? Well, okay,

(15:44):
I'll tell you what. I'll keep going and I'll get
to the Red and Blue line numbers in just a moment.
But um, just some interesting things about these two trains
that that will come up here. Um. The train travels
and averages sixteen thousand miles each year on rail just
to get from city to city. Uh, it's between an
average between between towns is about three fifty miles. That's

(16:06):
the average between cities that they travel. So you can
see why you know, it's important to be able to
just travel through the night um, you know they can
their performers can rest comfortably. You know, it's not riding
on a bus or you know, flying or whatever. Um.
There is a someone called a trainmaster. You know, they
have a ring master. There's also a trainmaster. And the
trainmaster is the guy who's in charge of obviously everything

(16:26):
about the train. And the trainmaster has to walk a
minimum of three miles per day. As he walks, you know,
completely around the train, checks out every aspect of it,
you know, several times, several times a day. I would
say it. He probably walks more than that, I would think, yeah,
I see. That's what's difficult, because the trains themselves can

(16:47):
be There's one I'm not gonna spoil. There's one that's
close to a mile in length. Longer than a mile, yeah, barely,
like only only slightly above it, like a hundred and
twenty ft long him. But that's that train master is
doing more than three miles. Now, the maximum speed for
these trains is about sixty which is that's pretty rapid

(17:08):
to move an entire circace. And this is modern day, yeah,
modern day. Um, let's see, each year there's been about
an average about uh'll see a thousand hours traveling from
city to city. Um, okay, you want to talk about
the blue and Red train lines now, Uh, well wait
before you get to that, we just we want to
mention where modern circus cars or modern circus trains get

(17:29):
their car I jumped away ahead. I apologize. No, no,
no worries, because that's that's one of the questions. We
know that we know that from a logistical standpoint, just
the sheer length of these trains can be difficult for conductors,
for people at train yards, right, and we know that
some of the same things that work for passenger train

(17:50):
are not gonna work for a circus train. For instance,
the flatbeds have to be specially reinforced, especially if they're
carrying elephants for instance. That makes sense. Yeah, and uh
we know that those those might be called stock cars. H.
So there's a lot of customization here. But uh, one
of the big questions in the modern age would be

(18:11):
where do they get all of these cars more than
a mile in length? Man? Um. Amtrak is currently the
United States only passenger carrying train system, right, passenger carrier? Uh?
So circuses buy old cars from amtrack. Yeah, they they
recycle these cars. They're they're refurbished, recondition however you want

(18:33):
to call it. But doesn't it take It takes an
exceedingly long time, it sounded to to refurbish one of these,
something like nine thousand hours or something crazy like that.
It's a long long time to work on to get
a circus train car. That's just one car ready to go.
And they will swap in new cars as they need them.
And I found that, Um, you know, each train can

(18:55):
expect to receive one or two cars each year, new
or refurbished, new, reconditioned based on their needs. You know,
if they need a new stock car, if they need
a new uh cabin or coach car for the performers.
You know, I'm sure let's take a little bit longer.
Maybe because of the detail and they're pretty much apartment Yeah,
I was gonna say, the plumbing, the electricity and everything

(19:15):
involved in and the new layout of the way the
rooms work. And because they every year they're finding more
efficient and newer and better ways to do things. So, um,
these refurbished cars are continually being updated and and kind
of swapped in and out of the the existing train trains,
both Red and Blue Line. So that's a great point.
Let's get to the red and blue line and then

(19:39):
tell us a little bit about that, and then we'll
start talking about the process of a circus train arriving
at a town. Okay, sure you wanted to start with.
Let's start with the smaller the two. There's a red
unit and now again this is all for Ringling Brothers
in Barman Bailey. So they have two units that are
traveling the United States all the time, just constantly in motion. Uh.
So there's a red unit, blue unit. The red unit

(20:01):
has fifty nine cars been um, and that's the small one.
That's the small one. Um. Here's how breaks down. There
are four animal stock cars, thirty living quarter coaches, two
concessions or concession stock cars, so that's you know, stuff
for when they get to the the arena. UM, nineteen
flatbed cars, one pie car, which we'll talk about in

(20:21):
a minute. That's that's the same as a restaurant, and
uh two generator cars and uh one shop and repair cars,
so they have their own repair placed on on hand
all the time, so you know, fixing whatever they need to.
Because again these are like rolling cities. I mean, it's
got you know, the people, it's got their own they
bring their own food and water. Um it's it's really

(20:41):
quite a setup. And the larger the two of these,
the blue unit, uh, not a whole lot bigger. It's
sixty one cars in length. However, at sixty sixty one
cars equals, like we've mentioned before, that's greater than a mile.
That's a huge, huge train. This is one of those
trains that if you're waiting for it at a crossing,
you know the train across, good luck, you're tapping your

(21:04):
fingers on the steering wheel going when is this? Yeah,
really it's an it's an amazingly long train. Um and
that one breaks down similar and it has four animal
stock cars, thirty two living quarter coaches again, two conception
storage cars, nineteen flat big cars, one pie car and
two generated cars in one shop and repair car. So
um plus you know we got the engines that there's

(21:26):
not even counting it's not down of the engines. But
um so the red unit, the blue unit, the blue
unit is the longer of the two. And um man,
these things, I mean, it's pretty amazing what they're able
to able to do. Um they're they're really self sustaining.
I mean, you've got these generator cars that you know,
produce their own electricity. I said, they bring your own water.
They've got this pie car that that you can talk

(21:48):
about right now if you want. Now, the pie car
is the dining car, and that's located centrally in the
train so that you know, everybody can get to it easily.
So you never have to walk more than a half
mile no train, No, no, not even that, because you
don't have to walk past the past the animals. You
don't have to walk past all the um you know,

(22:08):
can I take one let's take one side trip here
and that I'm going to talk about the pike car next.
But um, the treatment of the animals. You know a
lot of people are really concerned about that, and this
a couple of places will bring us up. But um,
the animals are carried at the very front of the train,
right behind the engines. And they say that that is
the place where there's the smoothest ride, So they're they're

(22:30):
well cared for. I mean, they have misters that can
lower the temperature in the cars up to uh I
think it's twenty degrees. Misters and sprayers and you know,
fans and all that stuff. Um, I think that the
air conditioning unit units didn't They said they had air
conditioning units originally, but there was a problem with that.
So they think the fans and misters are better. Uh,
they actually lower the temperature better. That's something about humidity

(22:51):
in the air, right, there's a these these cars are
climate controlled, and I think that's a huge, huge thing
to point out. Know, Um, the ongoing debate about uh
animals in circuses and whether or not it's ethical is
not something that is not something that we are going

(23:12):
to really approach outside of saying that in a circus train, Um,
these the animals are actually sometimes I'm better living quarters
than some of the people and I don't know. I
they travel on a smoother location. They travel in a
smooth location. But Scott the the a lot of the
stuff we read about, which we'll get to about the

(23:34):
uh swank condition of some of these uh living cars.
Uh those are for the star performers. You know. Uh
Joe Schmo who just helps pitch the tent is in
a bunk with a foot locker. I think you, I
think You're right. So um, now now you do want
to make a point though, with the with the animals,
like they are. They're not necessary, they're not being tortured,

(23:57):
they're not being held in some crazy uh hot box
for uh sixteen thousand miles I don't know. In fact,
they're handlers are often with them for most of the
train ride, um, you know, making sure the conditions are right,
and they're they're you know, doing whatever they do with them.
But I just wanted to point out, um, and again,
we're not gonna turn this into an animal rights show.
All we need to do is say that you know,
they're they're loaded up at the front by the engines

(24:19):
where there is the smoothest possible ride. Then it comes,
then the people are behind that, and then all the
storage cars, so um, you know, they're given even preferential
treatment as far as placement over the humans on the train. Um.
And then you know, I've heard people, you know say
something like, you know, well, these these animals aren't working
on their own accord. You know, they don't want to
be doing this. Um. And I think I've heard the

(24:41):
responses that you know, hey, these animals work two hours
a day maybe at the most. Um, you know, the
rest of the time they're being well, you know, cared
for anyways, Well, I do want to say that the
last time I went to a circus several years back,
it was here in Atlanta, and there were animal rights
protesters outside of the circus, and um, that's of the
same thing. Yeah, it's in it's Uh. It's an interesting point, um,

(25:05):
especially when you consider how intelligent these animals are. But
we do know that at least while they're on the train.
Although it's it's certainly not their natural environment. Uh, it
is not a tortuous environment. No, no, that's correct. So yeah,
so with that sidebar back, let's go to the pike
car either I need to mean to bring it down there. Okay,
let's go back to the pie car. Because the pike
car this sounds exciting to be ben, and I'll tell

(25:28):
you why. It's a it's a restaurant that when the
train is moving it's open seven. Um, there's always something
going on in the pike car. Apparently this is like
their their social gathering place. This is like their cheers. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
This is so you know, it's it's where all the
artists and staff and everybody, they all come together. Everybody
can sit down and I've I've seen you know, images
of this during you know, media days they have, um

(25:50):
and I haven't been on one obviously, but um, they
have media days where they have people come in and
they cook them in a great, big dinner, like a
typical dinner, which, by the way, sometimes you know during
the week, they may have certain days where like, we're
gonna feature the foods of Brazil this week because we
have performers from Brazil, and you know, this night we're
gonna have French food only because you know, we have
a lot of French performers and you know, I'm going

(26:10):
to do my best to make their type of food
and they're probably like Christmas dinner, Thanksgiving that exactly. So
it's called the pie car and it's right in the
middle of the train, and there's also a pie car
Junior which serves meals when they're at the arenas. So
I don't know exactly what that's all about, but I'll
have to find more information about the Pie card Junior.
But get this, been throughout the year each pie car

(26:32):
prepares it approximately one hundred and nine thousand meals. That's
a huge number. That is huge. That's an awful lot
of people to feed throughout the year. I mean we're talking, well,
you know what I was going to say, like on
a on a cruise ship, but I think a cruise
ship would probably be more because they're constantly eating ship.
For anybody who's a little confused by that number, when
we say meal, we don't mean one meal for one person,

(26:55):
we mean we mean a meal service. Yes, yes, that's right.
So they prepare a hundred and nine thousand meals each year,
which is amazing. And again to be open seven um,
and to be the social center, it seems like that's
kind of the cool place to be on a on
a circus train really when you're traveling, right, yes, and um.
While we're talking about traveling, let's talk about how a

(27:18):
train arrives at a circus or excuse me, how how
a circus train arrives at a town? Okay, so it
starts way before the actual circus train arrives. There's, uh,
an advertising car that comes out. You read about this,
No I didn't. So an advertising car comes out and

(27:39):
somebody goes hours ahead of the circus. Yeah, two eight
hours ahead of the circus or whatever. Um. This was
in the old days, Okay, And this advanced car would
come to the town and they would have a guy
who would be called like the twenty four hour Man
or something, and him and his team would plaster the
place flyers. You know, the circus is coming, the circus

(28:01):
is coming, banner at And nowadays they have trucks, vans,
conventional vehicles that will do this work. But I thought
this was neat because they would have the UM. I
thought it was so neat to see this sort of
harbinger car coming along. Uh. They also put up billboards
and if there was a bigger show than they have
more than one car. Um. And there was the whole

(28:24):
team of people hanging canvas banners at the overpasses and
on buildings and stuff. And um, here's here's something neat.
So Scott, Not all of these cars were just straight
up advertising cars that would go ahead of their circus.
They're also what we're called opposition cars, and these would

(28:47):
go ahead of rival circuses and other towns really right, well,
if or excuse me, there were towns that might have
more than one circus circus busters kind of yeah, so
just to just to try to get the advertising edge,
you know, so that people could say, oh, well, I
was gonna go to UM to knowles fantastic Menagerie and entertainment.

(29:08):
But now I see that Scott's Emporium of Wonders is
already here. We already made plans. Oh my gosh, really
this is this is a I just hadn't even heard
about this. Uh, this whole that's pretty neat. That is
pretty neat, I guess. So, I mean it makes sense.
You have to get to get the word out early.
And I know that we've seen you know, ads put
up on you know, telephone poles pasted in windows, that

(29:29):
type of thing. You know, modern day you know that
they would do the same. You know, long long ago,
they would put a banners across main Street. Um, you know,
there'd be a lot of excitement drawn up, you know
that the circus is coming to town. So, I mean,
I guess I hadn't really given it much thought how
that arrived ahead of time. I kind of kind of
thought it arrived with the circus. But that would make
much sense because it's already there. Yeah, And uh so

(29:50):
this twenty four hour crew, Um, they're called the twenty
four hour man, right. The leader of the crew was
called that because it was typically twenty four hours before
the circus so he made sure that the contracts were
in place hugely important, that the animals were uh, that
the animals would be able to be fed, that the

(30:11):
venue where they would pitch was going to be available
and open, you know. And um, he's a problem solver. Yeah,
he's a fixer. Yeah. And then this, uh, this was
interesting to me because I had not really thought about it.
But you you have to have these people who will
prepare the way we're back to uh what where we

(30:34):
where are we at here? We're talking about that. We're
talking about the man comes out ahead of the circus
right right, and the busters that come in, you know,
and and kind of say, you don't want to go
to that crappy show. You want to go to our
show because it's so much better. And we have I
don't know, stronger faster animals, right, yes, our we have
more attractive elephants, more agile tigers. Um our clowns will

(30:59):
not scare your wildren um. That's not no way. Clowns
always scared children. You know what's weird is um A
lot of people. Now this is a total sidebar, and
it's a little bit of a dark sidebar because we're
about to go dark with this episode, right enough? Yes,
So I have a theory about why clowns became so
tremendously unpopular. Um, bear with me or Scott. So in

(31:25):
growing up, everybody that I knew around my age and
this dislikes clowns just didn't really enjoy it or get it.
You know. Bozo the Clown was on the air still,
but it was really failing in in my age. And
then when I was living in Guatemala, I realized, like
the kids, they're all loved clowns, really loved it. Man.

(31:50):
There were like there were a lot more holidays that
was cool. Um, But every time there was some kind
of event in the town I was in, it would
be different clowns and all loved it. The kids at
the kids weren't showing any kind of fear. Kids were
not afraid of the clown. And then it made me think,
what would make Americans look differently at clowns or United
States people look differently clowns. You know what I'm going

(32:11):
to say, John Wayne Gaysy, Yes exactly. And I think
maybe in the post gay Ce environment, that's why there's
this tremendous creeptitude around clowns. There has to be there,
absolutely has to be, I know, and I know that
a lot of people are going to agree with that. Um.
When I was a young, young kid, I used to
watch both of the clown out of out of Chicago
because I was near there. I lived in Indiana, so

(32:31):
we could pick up Chicago stations. And I love the show,
no problem with that. And I go to the circus
when I was a kid, and you know, kind of
iffy about the clowns, but they're okay. And uh, much
later I realized that these are kind of creeping me out.
And there was no real link that I could make
until much much later when I became a true crime fan,
and I did learn about all this, and of course,

(32:53):
you know, I knew all, you know, kind of halfway
knew about what was going on because I was pretty
young at the time, but I didn't know what was
going on. And then in high school, you know, you
kind of investigate a little more, read a little more,
see some photos. Um, and then I think, turn the
corner for me, and I'm right now, I'm you know,
I'm not a big fan of clowns. I'll tell you that.
I I will turn around and leave a room Wow. Yeah, well, um,

(33:16):
the a lot of people are probably wondering, you know,
is this is this a rambling thing? And that's my bad.
I was rambling a bit just to introduce us to
a darker side too. One fair point I should make Scott.
The clowns at these circuses are professional, uh, and they
are not in any way crazed killers. And you know what,

(33:37):
I've been to the circus recently, and while I'm up
in the stands and I'm not personally interacting with them,
it's good fun. Yeah, it's good fun. And it's really
funny if you like slapstick as well. There's some clever
jokes in there. Um. But we we introduce this darker
tone here because we're about to talk about one of
the or several of the trys involving circus trains. Yeah,

(34:01):
there have been a few, and I only want to
spend just maybe let's spend two or three minutes on this,
how about that. We'll just kind of breeze to this
real quick, because again, this is the downside of all this.
And and obviously there's you know, with that many miles traveled,
that may hours traveled, you know, yearly, there's gonna be
an accident here there, and we're talking about, you know,
a hundred plus years of train travel. Here. There's some

(34:23):
tragedies along the way. And there's three here that I
want to mention. Um there's one that's bigger than the rest.
But UM, we'll start with some of the smaller ones.
There's a there's one in Duran, Michigan, the Wallace Brothers
circus train wreck, and that involved to two trains from
the same circus company ben Um. They were traveling in tandem.
You know, they had total I'm sorry, one had sixteen

(34:44):
cars when I had twenty two cars. Um. This is
like nineteen o three, in August of nineteen o three.
It's going way back. UM, I guess the smaller trains
breaks failed one night, it was about three forty five
in the morning. Uh, slammed into the larger train. Um.
In this particular wreck, there were twenty three people that died, Uh,
three camels, one elephant, and one dog that that perished

(35:05):
as well. But these are these are tragic when they
happen because they're carrying so many people. You gotta remember
if they're carrying you know, two hundred people and all
these animals and everything, Um, you know, twenty three dead.
That's a lot of people. Um. But you know, if
if a modern train order crash, um, which thankfully it
hasn't recently. UM, you know they're caring, they're carrying now
and in the neighborhood of two or fifty three hundred people. UM,

(35:28):
So you know, twenty three people, that's a lot of people.
Don't get me wrong. But it's not the biggest tragedy
that we'll talk about. Um. The the middle one here
that I want to talk about, far fewer dead as
a matter of fact. But another circus train wreck is
the Algae Burns Circus train wreck, and that was in
nineteen thirty in July. Again, it was a twenty nine
car train, single train. This is the last eleven cars

(35:51):
derailed at some point in the mode night. Um, there
were I think they were somewhere in New Brunswick. That's
my feeling on this. The the article that I read
was a little bit sparse on you know, town information. Uh,
there were no animal animals injured, because we told you
that they travel in the front cars, and even in
nineteen thirty that was the case. They traveled up front
in the in the smoother riding cars. All the people

(36:13):
were in the back. Um. I guess there were four
circus staff, one hitcher a guy who was just hopping,
you know, right on the train. That and um, I
think it was like seventeen injured. And then uh, you know,
we moved on to we after we go back another
twelve years really for the biggest one right back to

(36:34):
right June eighteen, the Hammond Circus train wreck, uh named
because it's near Hammond, Indiana. UM So this is interesting
because an empty Michigan Central Railroad troop train hits the
rear end of the Oh here we go Scott Hoggenbach
Wallace so Soundcoacher circus train, uh eighties six people killed, Scott,

(36:58):
a hundred and twenty seven injured. That is amazing, and
you know that's that's a huge number. Um, right in
the middle of the night. So people are asleep. Of
course the problem was so was the the the driver
of the train that he collided with the circus train
of the Michigan Central exactly. They say that, you know
that the cause of this was lack of sleep. I
guess the guy they say hadn't been sleeping or hadn't

(37:21):
slept at all. The preceding twenty four hours prior, you know,
prior to this wreck. Um, something about several heavy metals
were found in a system. Yeah, he was apparently, the
story goes, he was on a medication of some sort
to uh, kidney pills at kidney because I found that
as well. Um, and these also had some sort of
narcotic effect, So he was I don't know too much

(37:45):
about yet what the heavy metals imply, but he was
definitely deprived of sleep and under the influence while he
was while he's driving. One interesting point here, um, Cecil B.
De Mill's Greatest Show on Earth, which can about ninety two,
recreated this accident. Um not accurately because it is nineteen

(38:06):
fifties Hollywood, but um, there is a this. This made
such an impression that decades later people are still talking. Yeah,
this is a big one. I mean, eighty six people
died and they were like, I think it was a
hundred and twenty seven injured in this wreck. So this
is a major major accidents in fact, in fact, this
is still one of the one of the worst train

(38:26):
wrecks in US history at this point, even now modern day. Um,
most of the people they said perished almost immediately. Um,
the problem was been Uh these are old wooden cars
and they had oil lamps on board, and the wreckage
of course instead of just you know, like well not
instead of but I know a lot of modern trains
when they crash, um, you know, it's a lot of

(38:47):
twisted metal, a lot of debris and stuff, but there's
usually not a fire. Uh. This this caught fire almost
immediately as well, so um, you know, added added another
level of an element of danger to this thing. So um,
really not a good scene at all obviously. Um. Now
that the thing is that they were buried at a
place called Showman's Rest. And this is kind of an
interesting side note. That thing is that this is a

(39:09):
plot of land that was purchased I guess just months
prior to this. And and this Showman's Rest that we're
gonna talk about is not a one of a kind.
There are other places called Showman's Rest that are set
aside in uh cemeteries for people that are entertainers and
uh and circus entertainers specifically. Um, and if you get
a chance, you know, take a look at you know,
some of the information about Showman's Rest. But this one

(39:30):
the one that they were buried at is in Woodlawn
Cemetery in Forest Park, Illinois. So it's near near the
wreck because you know, I guess Hammond is up in
the northern part. Um. But there's also another one. Oh
you know what, I'm just just a moment here on
the on the first one from Forest Lawn. Um, I
guess it's a it's a pretty big place, and there's
um elephant statues that surround this thing, and a lot

(39:51):
of the stones, you know, they're marked unknown male, unknown
female because they didn't know who they were. There was
the fire that you know, they just couldn't tell who
people right, um tread you know, some some people were
marked however, they didn't know who they were. And a
lot of those people who have very ornate stones, uh
you know, the final gravestones. And if you take a
look at some of those, they're really really interesting. Some

(40:12):
of them are shaped like big tops. Some of them
have um, you know, elephant uh etchings you know drawn
into them, fictions of their circus careers. Yeah, if they
were a ring master or whatever they happened to be.
Some of them are really really interesting to look at. Um.
So take a look at that again. There's one in uh,
you know, Forest or to say, Forest Park, Illinois. And
there's also one that I know of in Minneapolis, Minnesota. UM,

(40:34):
I think there are others scattered throughout the country. But
these showman rest places are really kind of interesting, interesting
places to check out. And that's a good point that
a showman's rest is not the showman's rest. That's a
kind of place. And uh, we're not gonna end on
a down note. Don't worry, guys. That is the probably
the last of our dark stuff and we're actually close

(40:55):
to the end here. We spent a little bit too
long on that. I didn't mean I don't want spend
like two three minutes fascinating it's fascinating. Can I at
least a couple more things here that um, you know,
we we talked about, you know how people you know
stand on the side of the rails and watch for
these trains to arrive. Now and this happens even now,
of course now, maybe more than ever really, um, and

(41:17):
that's because of the web. A lot of people are
getting this information from places like I mentioned what I trained,
web train web and um, you know circus train dot
net or whatever you know it is I'll have to
look it up. I think it's dot com. Um. But
there are people that they could. They're called rail fans
or rail buffs, train buffs, railway enthusiasts, train spotters, greysers.

(41:37):
It kind of depends on where you're from. And there
was also just a sidebar on this part. Um, there's
someone called a metro file or some group of people
called metro files, and those are people that are fascinated
with underground systems like subways kind of trams. But um
to the hobby, I guess, and in watching trains or
locating trains, and again through all those sites, you can

(41:59):
track rains across the US kind of like you would
on um, you know, a site like flight aware, where
you can track a train and see where it is. Um,
you know exactly where it's going to be arriving next,
and you know the sket the proposed schedule. I think
they're you know, plus or minus a little bit of
time so people can anticipate the passage of the train
more easily with the web. Yeah, and and the hobby
is sometimes called get this, it's called pharaoh equinology, which

(42:22):
means literally the study of iron horses, which I found
kind of fun cool. Yeah, that is pretty neat. That
far faraoh equinology, which is kind of a neat, neat
term for the hobby. But again, um, you have to
it depends on where you are. If you in the US,
the United Kingdom, in Anesia, Australia, they all have different
names for what they call these people, and sometimes they

(42:42):
have derogatory terms for them. Like here in the United States,
railway workers call them foamers, and that's because they foam
at the mouth and at the idea of you know,
some train coming. You know that they're all excited about
and everything. So you know, they have a couple of
pejorative terms for them, I guess, and that you know,
they're kind of laughed at by some. But but you know,
it's a big group and a lot of people really

(43:04):
are really serious about tracking trains and photographing them. And
that's how we got a lot of this information that
we've shared with you today is through that, you know,
people that have have tracked them and watched them arrive,
and we saw photographs of them loading and unloading and
modern versus old versions. It's really it's an interesting hobby, yes,
and it's still a continuing lifestyle. We want to outline that,

(43:26):
uh as we as we head out. But Scott, You've
got a couple more things I do. I've got, you know,
instead of how about this, I'll do to one more
things beginning with this one more thing, all right. I
want to mention animal crackers because I feel like we
have to mention animal crackers. And there's a reason, um,

(43:47):
going way back to en two um. I think the
National Biscuit Company was the company that was creating these
animal crackers at the time. Later they would be known
as Barnum's Animals, and I think they're still known as Barnum's.
And yeah, look at the box. The box looks like
what I talked about earlier. Those old time um, you know,
circus wagons with the animals in, you know, encased. They

(44:08):
have wheels, and they used to have wheels that you
could pull out from underneath and you could stand the
train up on on a table or something that looks
like a wagon, and they had a had a string
on top, you know that you could believe get this.
I thought it was always so they could link them
together and drag them like a train, you know, across
the surface of the table or whatever. Not the case.
I guess they originally thought originally thought of as being

(44:31):
a you could put them on a Christmas tree as
a Christmas tree ornament. Oh cool, Yeah, I know it's
a strange little thing. But just to give an idea
of how many of these since nineteen o three, Uh,
they've used thirty seven different animals that are featured in
the box. And this is a rotation, so there's sometimes
they're sometimes not. Is that to mean that you'll get
all thirty seven in one box? Um? I think it

(44:52):
may be limited to like maybe twenty at a time
in rotation, um, and you'll get kind of a mix
of each. But there there let's say twenty at any
given time that are rotated in and out. So there's
this huge mix. Now, thirty seven animals. That's a lot
of variety in these things, right, And get this, I
think they're built by are built by I'm used to
talking about cars. They are manufactured by Nibisco now and

(45:15):
they sell something like forty million packages every year have
animal crackers. I wonder if the circus gets any money.
I don't see how they couldn't. I mean they're called
Barnum's animals there they look like a circus train. Um.
I don't understand how they couldn't be making some kind
of money off of this thing. They must be all right,
you've got one more, one more thing. I do it.

(45:36):
One more, one more thing. All right. There's something that
I had mentioned that they ahead of this about, you know,
the treatment of the animals. You know, we talked about
that just shortly right, um, okay, And we talked about
the ringmaster get out and walking right and three miles
a day. Well, the animals also get out and walk

(45:56):
every day, regardless if they're if they're traveling or not.
They they will stop the train. They'll have a scheduled
stop for the train. We let the animals get out
and and stroll and have this uh this this recreation time.
They call it the animal walk. They call it the
animal walk. That's right. And you know, the the animal
walk is officially I think when when the circus rise
into town. And I didn't know that this is going on.

(46:18):
This is what I was mentioned to. Now. The animal
walk is when the circus train arrives into town and
they stop the train something like a mile out of
the venue, a mile away from the from the arena
or wherever they're gonna play. They unload all of the
animals right there on the street and they walk them
to the arena, to the venue, and this gives them,

(46:41):
you know, the exercise they need for that one day,
you know, because the next day they're gonna get it
some other way. They're getting back on the train and
you know, walking or just you know, walking around the arena. Um.
But they walk about a mile you know, from the
train to the arena for exercise. And the the show
also show promotion like you had talked about when they
go into town. And you know this this is why
the old time circus parade. This is exactly what this

(47:03):
is because there are additional in addition to the trainers
that that normally work with them. Uh, there's something that
they call the what do they call them the cherry
pie workers or something like that. Um, I wish I
had that note in front of you right now. I don't.
But the circus workers who wish to earn just a
little bit of extra money are allowed to lead some

(47:23):
of the animals on this on this this animal and
I think they called them cherry pie workers for some reason.
Interest Yeah, yeah, so, um, anyways, they're they're you know,
more than happy to help with it. You know, they've
all got you know, kind of a uniform. It's usually
just a T shirt or something, but you get to
see all the performers ahead of time, leading let's say

(47:43):
a team horses or you know, an elephant or whatever
happens to be the full mile from the train all
the way to the venue. So this can be kind
of an exciting thing. If you know the circus is
coming in, get to one of these sites that tracks
the train and tells you where it's going to stop
and all that information, and uh, maybe go out and
see the animal walk. I think I think for kids,
even adults, I think this would be something really cool

(48:04):
to check out. Consult your local faraoh equinologists. I love
that world. Oh my gosh, that was a lot of stuff.
Then that's a lot of stuff. But I think we
both became very fascinated with this idea because when when
we were first reading about circus trains, I thought it
would be something like an historical oddity that faded away.

(48:24):
I was very surprised, pleasantly so to find out that
the red and Blue line are still around today. I
think there's also a goldline now and um, maybe that's
for a different organization. But what what amazed me about this?
To go back to the New York Times article that
I mentioned in the very beginning here by Annie Bernard Barnard, Um,

(48:50):
this is a continuing practice and it is also like
the circus manager Mr Mr Jonathan Griggs said, uh you
said earlier, Scott, these trains are basically cities without a
zip code. And you can read some fantastic information about

(49:12):
life aboard the trains, about the logistics that they use,
uh to get from point A to point B and
to get the circus on and off um, all around
the web and on the train web forums. I'd like
to also thank those forums because they gave us some
excellent stuff. I'd like to thank everybody for listening. And

(49:32):
I guess we're gonna head out of here right, yeah,
you know what. I was just thinking about this though.
We're ready to go. But this, this almost is this
feels like an opportunity for for a new reality show,
doesn't it? Life aboard a circus train? I mean it
does follow a train for a full year and see
what happens on board one of those things. Because I
think a lot of people would be fascinated because there
there's literally everything going on. I mean, when you live

(49:54):
on a on a vehicle like this for a year
at a time, or actually two years at the time,
um you because of two year tours, um man. I mean,
it's just got to be a fascinating environment. Showdown at
the pie car. Have you, guys, ever had an experience
seeing a circus train, been aboard a circus train? Or
do you have some more information you could give us

(50:15):
about Scott and I's newest obsession. We hope so, and
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(50:37):
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