Listener Q's: Talking Mice!

Today I answer your emails! News about mice genetically modified with a candidate for the "human speech gene!" Then we discover why baby penguins are so cute, and more! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Creature Feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
and today on the show we're answering your listener questions.
That's right. You can write to me and I will
try my best to answer your questions about animals, about
evolutionary biology, about psychology, and everything in between. You could

(00:31):
write to me at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com.
Let's get right into it, Hi, Katie, listening to one
of your earlier episodes on Rats. I am reminded of
this rats news from a few days ago with a
link to a YouTube video. Enjoy I guess smiling crying
face from jessec Hi Jesse, thank you for the cool video.

(00:54):
This video is a nicely done summary by Anton Petrov,
which is is a recap of the study a humanized
Nova one splicing factor alters mouse vocal communications published this
February in Nature. So let's talk a bit about this study.

(01:16):
So mice were genetically modified to have a gene alteration
that is unique to humans, targeting a specific gene called
NOVA one, which, among other things, is a blueprint for
the development of neurons in the brain, so all mammals
have NOVA one, but there is a specific change in

(01:38):
the amino acid sequence that seems to be specific to humans,
even setting us apart from our close extinct relatives like
the Neanderthals. So researchers in the study use the Crisper
gene editing method to introduce this human amino acid sequence
change into embryonic minds, and they found that, yeah, these

(02:03):
mice started talking and walking and dancing little top hats
and singing about cheese. Well okay, so not exactly, but
the findings were pretty interesting. So the mice that were
given this humanized NOVA one gene alteration had different vocalizations

(02:24):
both as babies and as adults. They had a higher
frequency vocalizations as puffs, so higher in the frequency in
terms of higher pitched and interestingly, these higher pitched vocalizations
lessited less of a response from their mothers. So I

(02:47):
find this really important to point out because it really
shows how difficult it is for a massive brain changing
mutation to actually take hold in an animal, because it's
not always going to be beneficial in a population. It
could just as likely doom this animal that has this mutation.

(03:08):
So in this case, right, if these were natural born mice,
they might have more difficulty communicating to their own parents,
their own mothers, and so if the mother doesn't properly
respond to its calls for food or alarm calls, that
might make the baby mouse less prone to survival. And

(03:30):
so you could have a mutation that could potentially be
beneficial down the road, right, creating more intelligent mice. But
if in the shorter term it creates a situation in
which the mouse offspring are less likely to survive, that
mutation is not necessarily going to beneficial. So back to

(03:50):
the study. As adults, the mice with this humanized nova
one gene had more complex, high frequency vocalizations when attempting
to communicate, especially when the male mice would attempt to
communicate with female mice to convince them to mate. So

(04:11):
this is another interesting indication about how a mutation, where
it in natural populations, might either positively or negatively impact
the organism's chance of successful reproduction. Right. So, in birds,
for example, some species have evolved to have very complex

(04:32):
mating calls, which the females seem to appreciate because it
offers some signaling about the male's fitness mental physical fitness.
The male has the resources, the time, and the intellect
to be able to memorize really long songs. So in mice,
it could be a situation in which these more complex

(04:54):
vocalizations actually elicit a better response from mates, or it
could be a worse response. Right the the female mice
may have no idea what the males are talking about
because they've essentially started speaking a slightly different mousey language.
So the human mutation of the nova one gene did
not suddenly gift mice the ability to speak, but it

(05:18):
did alter their vocalizations, including possibly creating more complex use
of syllables in adults, which is really interesting and it
does offer more evidence that this gene sequence might be
at least in part responsible for the development of human speech.
It might also provide evidence that humans were genetically unique

(05:40):
from our Neanderthal relatives, which could mean that Neanderthals did
not use language in the same way that we did.
There are multiple theories about this. Some anthropologists and researchers
and evolutionary cologists thinks that it might be likely that
Neanderthals had some form of language, whereas others think that
the human brain probably had a change in it, a

(06:04):
structural difference that was so profound that that is what
allowed us to form our complex language that probably was
different from There was certainly communication among Neanderthals and vocalizations,
but it may have been either a proto language or
something more simple than our language. So yeah, this is

(06:25):
a really interesting addition to the evidence about how we
developed language. And I do know what you guys are thinking.
You're wondering if you could inject this gene into your
dog and get her to talk. So basically the answer
is no. First of all, it would need to be
in an embryo, so you can't inject this gene into

(06:48):
like an adult, fully developed animal and expect there to
be much of a difference. Secondly, our ability to speak
requires not just one genetic mutation, but an entire cognitive
framework that an animal like a dog most likely lacks.
So who knows exactly what this would do in say

(07:08):
a dog, It may have no effect. It may have
some effect on their ability to bark or produce sort
of different barking patterns vocalizations. It would not give the
dog the ability to speak, because a dog doesn't have
the same kind of cognitive structures that human beings have

(07:30):
that allow us to speak. So, for instance, our ability
to nest concepts is really important in our ability to
understand language, and that might be something that's a little
bit beyond a dog. Could you, though, say, edit the
genes of a more cognitively advanced animal, like say an
elephant or a chimpanzee and give them more complex vocalizations

(07:54):
and allow them to maybe eventually be able to speak
with each other over man, maybe thousands of years of evolution.
Maybe Ah, that's a solid Maybe I would say you
would just have to do some wildly unethical experimentation and
wait thousands of years. But you know what, never say never.

(08:17):
All right on to the next listener email. Hi, Katie,
just wanted to drop a note after a recent episode
which discussed different ways of managing populations of animal shelters
and possible regional differences in quote unquote no kill versus
other animals shelters. My sisters and I have both been
involved in animal rescue over the years, and my sister
has fostered numerous dogs, including a pregnant mama and assisting

(08:39):
the birth of her puppies. She kept Mama pick attached
for the tax. Thank you for that. It was very cute.
I hope it's a consolation to know that there are
many rescues in my area, the Northeast, where no kill
shelters are more common, who specialize in pulling animals from
ones that use euthanasia. There's also lots of rescues that
pull from New York City Animal Control as well. These

(09:01):
rescues find dogs who are on borrowed time and get
foster commitments. Once there's enough, though, they send vans down
to transport them up here so they can be saved
and have good homes. Most that pull from far away
have entire networks of transport drivers that travel in legs.
It's a small dent, but at least they can save
some A lot of the shelters the rescue we work
for are in the Carolinas, and we are in New York.

(09:24):
Not sure about other parts of the country, but it
seems to be the area closest to us that has
a big dog overpopulation issue in their public shelters. And
this is from Caroline H. Hi. Caroline, I really appreciate
you writing in and letting me know about these programs.
I love to hear that there's a network of limited
intake and general intake shelters, so also known as no

(09:45):
kill versus you know, euthanasia shelters. I think that's fantastic,
especially when different states can work together to get animals
to the homes that they need. It's you know, I
think that both shelters perform very important services, and the
fact that they can work together to try to get
the dogs and cats to the resources that they need

(10:07):
is wonderful, very beautiful. So just to share some stuff
that I've learned being in Italy, there's a lot of
cooperation between shelters in the South and the North to
spread out the number of animals in any given shelter.
In turn, there are huge numbers of dogs that find
their way to people's homes. And this city really loves dogs.

(10:27):
I've never been in a city that loves dogs so much,
which is great for me as a dog owner. Most
restaurants and shops allow you to bring your dog given
that they're well behaved. There are tons of pet welfare
laws on the books. It does kind of mean, actually
that there's a lot of dog poop on the streets,
even though I'd say about ninety five percent of people
clean up after their dogs. There's so many dogs that

(10:49):
even the five percent of people who are naughty and
don't clean up after their dogs means that there's a
good amount of mess for the rest of us. So
people here also really love cats, so they're generally not
allowed outside here. In turn, there are even requirements from
shelters that balconies have to be kept secured so cats
don't accidentally fall out of their apartments. I have actually

(11:12):
seen cats on leashes on a surprising number of occasions.
We've even seen a cat that was not on a
leash but was following his owner around very very dutifully
and loyally. I've never seen that before, but that was
pretty incredible. There was another one that was sitting on
its owner's shoulders while he was writing one of those

(11:33):
hoverboard thingies, so like the owner was riding the hoffboard,
not the cat, the cat was sitting on his owner's shoulders.
It was incredible to see, and I would be remiss
if I didn't mention one of the most famous cat
shelters in Italy, which is in Rome, the Lago di
Torre Argentina, which is near where Julius Caesar was assassinated.

(11:54):
These are Roman ruins and the Torre Argentina Cat Sanctuary
has about one hundred and fifty feline residents who wander
around the ruins and are fed near this shed where
archaeologists used to store their tools. It started as an
informal arrangement where cats who would congregate there because it

(12:16):
was a pleasant place for them to sun themselves or
sleep in the shade, would get fed by the locals
and by the groundskeepers, and now it's become a more
formal situation. They work with vets to make sure that
the cats are spayed and neutered, and visitors can come
donate to the shelter, buy little chotchkeys, and all the
proceeds go to benefit the cats. They can even go

(12:37):
and meet a cat and adopt ones, so it's really
really cool. I actually I have been to Rome. I
have not been to this cat sanctuary, but I have
been to other ruins, and there are cats that like
to hang out there as well. So they are just
rolling around sun bathing themselves, probably right on the spot

(12:58):
where Julius Caesar was assessed. If they fits, they sits,
even if it's the side of a historical assassination. Hi Katie,
thank you for answering my questions and responding even when
I didn't have a question. Today, I do have a question,
and it's about emperor penguin chicks. They are so adorable,
but why, specifically, what is the evolutionary advantage for them

(13:20):
to look the way they do, spinning their chick hood
in the dead of an Antarctica with no natural predators. They
have no need for camouflage, so why I certainly wouldn't
mind if they have evolved simply to be so darn cute.
A side note, I had a similar question about pandas
in general until a recent documentary revealed that wild panda
mothers would leave their babies on tree branches that perfectly

(13:41):
camouflage them to keep them away from male pandas. It's
uncanny and satisfying to see at the same time. Cheers Jesse,
Hi Jesse, this is a great question. So emperor penguin
chicks do actually have to worry a bit about predators,
though they might not be who you would expect. So
other seabirds do like to eat young chicks, like giant

(14:04):
petrels and skuas, so most likely the young penguins feathers
are designed primarily for warmth rather than swimming, so the
young penguins do not need to swim. Little babies don't
swim out, they don't go fishing. It's that's all their parents.
So their feathers are very downy. They're really fluffy, fluffy,

(14:27):
they're very fluffy. It's designed for warmth rather than being
able to swim, so that's their sort of baby down coat.
In terms of coloration, the grayish white of their coats
probably helps the grayish white of their plumage probably helps
them blend in somewhat with their environment, while the black

(14:49):
on their heads and beaks and the little patch under
their chins give their parents a good target for where
to deposit food and helps them identify them as a chick.
So the features that we find cute about the baby penguins,
like how their cheeks and eyes are surrounded by white feathers,
that little black patch under their chin allowing their faces

(15:11):
to be more recognizable, may also be in a way
cute so to speak, to the adult penguins, eliciting a
maternal or paternal response, helping them to recognize the chicks
and making them want to care for them, so similar
to how we find human babies cute and animals because

(15:31):
animals proportions can be similar to human babies and elicit
that same sort of care taking response, that may be
achieving the same thing with the adult penguins. In a way,
evolving for cuteness is not a bad idea. That may
be part of the reason they look this way. As adults,
they do need to change because they need to grow

(15:51):
in feathers that are more that are more ideal for
swimming rather than for simply one they do have a
nice downy layer underneath their sleeker swimming feathers. They also
need to advertise their sexual maturity to mates, so they
lose their baby feathers that down and they molt, and

(16:15):
then they develop that striking black, white and orange coloration
that emperor penguins are so well known for, which advertises
that they are also now sexually mature. Their little tuxedo
suits might help them evade predation in the water as
well through the lightness of their bellies and the darkness
of their backs, because there's this phenomenon where when you're

(16:37):
below something in the ocean and looking up, light is
coming down from the top, so if you're looking up,
things are light, and so if something has a light belly,
it'll blend in better with looking up through the light
filtering in through the top of the ocean, whereas if
you're looking down, it's further away from the source of light,
so it gets darker the further down you go. So

(16:58):
you're looking down something has a dark back, it's more
likely to blend in with the darkness of the ocean.
That's why things like penguins and orcas have that coloration
where it's dark on the top and then light white underbelly.
It's very striking looking to us, but it actually acts
as camouflage. The orange coloration, like along their beaks and

(17:20):
on their chests, is likely for sexual selection purposes. As
I mentioned earlier, they want to advertise that they're sexually mature,
they're ready to mate, and both males and females have
this coloration, which is typical for birds, especially who both
invest a lot in childcare. So, which is the case
for emperor penguins, both the males and the females have

(17:43):
to tend the eggs take turns getting fish sitting on
the eggs, so they both need to impress one another
in order to mate, whereas in other species of penguin
or in birds, where it's the female who primarily does
the care tape, then she needs to be choosier in

(18:03):
terms of her mate, and that's usually where you get
this larger sexual dimorphism, meaning differences between the male and
the female, where maybe the female is more optimized for
camouflage and the male's more optimized for showing off as
plumage and impressing a female. So in this case and
inmper penguins, they're both trying to impress each other while
also retaining some of that camouflage, and that's why they

(18:25):
have both the stunning orange bands near their mouths and
on their chests. But they also have the black and
white coloration that helps them camouflage while swimming, which is
where adult inmper penguins are going to find most of
their predators while they're swimming. All right, last listener question,

(18:47):
plaid frogs. These pictures look fake. The lighting is too
perfect for the wild, and they are all taken at
the same angle and distance. Are these AI generated or
are there actually a species of classy dapper frogs out there?
And then this was followed up by a quick email
that said, disregard that last email plaid frogs. I'm ninety
eight point four six seven percent sure that was an
April fool's joke. This is from JR. S. I won't

(19:12):
disregard this email because I see this all the time
where there's I mean, obviously this was an April fool's joke,
but there's so many AI images out there now of
animals that are meant to deceive rather than just be
a fun April fool's prank, and I find it frustrating
because real frogs that actually exist have incredible skin textures

(19:37):
and colorations that don't look like they should exist. So
now it feels like people may see something really incredible
or real frog and go like, ah, that might be AI.
So let me give you some examples of some frogs
that might look like they are AI creations, but they
absolutely exist. One of them is the glass frog, which

(19:59):
is found in Central America. There's a few different species
of glass frogs, but in general, they have skin that's
so transparent you can actually see their organs. The translucency
is so that they can camouflage against the leaves that
they sit on, so basically, you know, they have a

(20:20):
invisible camouflage mode, which is incredible. When they're asleep, most
of their blood is concentrated in the liver, leaving them
mostly colorless and translucent, so they can be safe from
predators while they're at rest. When they're awake and their
blood is flowing, they're a little more not I would.
They're still translucent there, but there's more color to them

(20:41):
so you can see them a little more clearly. Of course,
there's poisoned dart frogs that are absolutely beautiful, have amazing colorations.
You've probably seen these before. They're the frogs that have
the really bright coloration. Most of them are very very toxic.
Some of them are mimics of the toxic and dart
frogs so they can get some advantage. So some of

(21:04):
my favorites just by looks are Zimmerman's poison frog found
in Peru, which has these beautiful black spots and mint
green and yellow sort of reticulations. It's really really pretty.
Also in Peru is the red headed poison frog, and
I like this one not just out of solidarity as
a fellow redhead, but because it looks like half of

(21:26):
its body got dunked in sort of an orange glaze,
while the bottom half is reticulated blue and black. So
it's absolutely stunning. And something that's not a poisoned dart
frog but is really really pretty, at least during certain
periods of the season is the Indian bullfrog. The males
turn bright yellow during mating season, and their vocal sacs

(21:48):
are this bright blue, so when they're inflated, they look
like these bright blue balloons attached to this lemon yellow frog.
It's really really pretty, really cool to look at. And
then if you ever if you want to look at
online for Indian bullfrogs, you can usually find videos of
these guys in huge clusters, a bunch of them loudly

(22:11):
making their call and trying to find a mate, so
really amazing. So there are some really cool frogs out there,
and they're not AI generated, which can be frustrating, but hey,
you know what, if you ever see something and you're
because AI is getting better and better and it gets
easier and easier to be fooled bite, especially because there

(22:31):
are genuinely really cool animals out there that do look
like they might have been generated by AI and you
can't tell the difference and you want my help with it,
just go ahead and email me. You can email me
at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com and I'll
help you figure out whether an image is real or not,
or a hoax or whatever it is. And if you

(22:51):
have any questions, you can also email me and I
will do my best to answer them. Thank you guys
so much for listening. And if you're enjoying the show
and you leave a rating or a review, you know
that that helps me in that does improve the metrics
of the show. I don't know algorithms. We're all ruled
by computers. Now. Soon the AI frogs will take over,

(23:14):
and I, for one, I don't know if I welcome
them because they look too smooth. It's creepy. I don't
like it. Anyways, guys, thank you again for listening and
I'll see you next Wednesday.