October 12, 2018 • 31 mins
Melissa’s mother believes Keith wasn’t born a psychopath, but that he was raised to be that way by his father, Les.
Melissa G. Moore: IG @melissag.moore; Tik Tok @melissa.g.moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco: www.LaurenBrightPacheco.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I got a phone call and this guy says, I
know where you're at. You're in the kitchen and you're
wearing this. Keith states that he hired somewhat.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
My mom had just said that her and my dad
were separating, which I did believe.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I wanted to keep like you guys's baby pictures, and
he chucked out all up.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
He wasn't exactly a faithful lust.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Oh absolutely not tell me about your wedding day. They
were doing pictures of me, and I guess he was
outside kissing the bridesmaids, my best friend.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
After the second murder, the Happy Face killer says he
realized he liked what he was doing.
Speaker 6 (00:41):
This triggered something in me. He said, it was getting easy,
real easy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The first year with Melissa had went through two fires.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Keith Tait.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The vent I had a little toilet cover and it
caught it on fire, and the whole bathroom was in golf.
Then shortly after that we go camping and then I
heard a bear. He cleaned fish in front of the
cabin and he was sleeping in the car.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
He started killing in nineteen ninety and he stopped in
ninety five.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
The five years is not an isolated event.
Speaker 7 (01:16):
It was an escalation.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I think he was groomed to be who he is.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
In the vite, in the fight with the Sun. I
don't know, shine o.
Speaker 9 (01:32):
Shiver oh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Through.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
One of the biggest questions you're faced with when looking
at the lives of serial killers is where did it
all begin? What makes a person become a killer? Is
it something that's passed down through generations or is there
a single moment that can turn someone from a normal
human being with a job and a family into a monster?
(02:08):
Are serial killers made or are they born? I'm Lauren
brad Pacheco, and this is happy face.
Speaker 8 (02:21):
I remember the first time I saw my father in prison,
and the first thing he said to me was Missy,
do you want to know why?
Speaker 7 (02:32):
And at the time, I couldn't.
Speaker 8 (02:36):
I couldn't handle the answer, and honestly, I thought whatever
he was going to tell me would be just him
trying to justify what he's done or to minimize what
he's done, and so I didn't want some pacifying answer.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
So I said no.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
And I regretted that moment for so many years now
because I want to know why.
Speaker 9 (03:15):
Why about my father had.
Speaker 8 (03:16):
An interest in crime was because he wanted to become
a police officer in Canada. He wanted to be a Mountie,
and he was declined from becoming that because of an
injury he sustained in high school. What he told me
is that in gym class, they do this rope exercise
where they climb the rope to the ceiling of the gym,
(03:38):
which is quite high.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
They say, now when they interview killers, people who've been
perpetually in jail, they have found that a large percentage
of them had damaged their frontal lobe before they were
twenty two, changes their whole personality. Keith fell in high school.
I believe it was twenty five feet. He was on
(04:02):
the very top of the rope and I let go.
He fell to the gym floor.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
He sustained a head injury and broke his hip, and
this impacted his ability to join the force. I don't
believe my dad ever got over that. It was something
that he carried on in conversations, that there was a
sense of resentment that he was now a long haul
truck driver when he could have.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
Had this other life that was just out of his grasp.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
But as Melissa's mom, Rose told us, She really thinks
that Keith was conditioned to be a killer, groomed to
be one by his own father less, and that's something
we felt we had to explore.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen,
The Jesperson children grew up in a rural atmosphere, first
in Chiliwack, British Columbia, later two hundred and fifty miles
south in Sale, Washington, an apple scented orchard community of
ten thousand. Keith's perpetually mobile father built the family's Chiliwack
(05:23):
home on land as ancestors homestead, and in nineteen oh
nine moved the house from the city to a pastoral
area outside of town. Cleared five acres with a borrowed bulldozer,
built a barn with a loft for his children and
a wooden bridge big enough for the family horses to
cross the little creek that rose from the springs above
the property line. Later, he damned the creek and built
(05:45):
a water wheel to trap chinook and silver salmon as
they swam up from the Vetter River to spawn.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
If you read jack Olson's biography of Keith, the way
in which he describes Keith's father less It's very clear
that Less was a very resourceful, ingenious man, the kind
of guy who could build a barn from scratch or
create a water wheel to catch fish for dinner. But
(06:18):
what also is clear is that he could be a monster.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We decided that we didn't want to live near your
grandfather anymore.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
Why he was horrible. I hated him. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He would without warning, open up the door to our
house and he goes, we just sleep.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
With me to you, to me, I had no idea.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, your father in law, Yes, your father in law
hit on you, yes, more than once, Like well.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I would be I'd be sitting right next to
Keith and he would come and he'd pinch me, and
I was thinking, Keith, what are you doing? And then
I see his hand and they start giggling. I don't
know who I was more angry with Keith for not
protecting me or for Less for doing it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So you think Keith knew his father would make passes
at you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well he was right there, and they thought it was
a joke. And the only time I was saved is
when I was pregnant with Melissa. Then I was off
the tables.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Keith's attitude towards marriage very much mirrored the relationship he
saw unfold between his own father and his mother, Gladys.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Knew that last beat the kids a lot. I don't
know if he beat Gladys or not, but I know
that there was problems between Gladys and least because when
we were for married, Keith goes, I have to go
down to the house and they go okay. So he
went down to the house, came back and he was
(08:07):
really visibly upset. I said, so what went on? He goes, yeah,
mom and dad got in a fight, and I guess
dad cut every telephone wire in the house.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
Was less a drinker.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
He was a heavy alcoholic.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
One of the few people that Keith opened up to
about his childhood was a true crime author and psychologist
named al Carlyle. Melissa met him almost completely by chance.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
I was invited to go to crime con and this
gentleman approached the booth and he said, hey, you know,
I've got this author who's working on serial killers. And
he said, well, his name is al Carlyle and he
studied Ted Bundy and he's working on a chapter of
the serial killer named Keith Hunter. Jesperson so when I
(09:14):
got that calm, I called him immediately, and I loved
his perspective. He had stories that I've never even heard
of before about the man I thought I knew.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Unfortunately, the night before we were supposed to interview Al Carlyle,
he passed away in his sleep, and it was heartbreaking.
He was such a fascinating, brilliant man. But we were
able to reach out to Stephen Booth, his publisher, and
also to Carrie Ann Keller, who was his researcher and
(09:50):
writing assistant.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Keith felt that I had a real mission to understand
bylent behavior, so that was their common ground. They each
felt the other could provide valuable information. Once Al was
up there interviewing Keith, and Keith said to Al, I
could reach over this table and snap your head before
(10:13):
the guard would even notice. I don't because I don't
want to lose my privileges. He wasn't threatening Al, he
was just making a point about his size. Okay, So
that's how you have to understand how Keith could talk.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
So it's like.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Being in a room with a loaded gun.
Speaker 9 (10:31):
Oh yeah, for sure, definitely you feel it.
Speaker 11 (10:36):
My name is Stephen Booth. I have been the publisher
at Genius Book Publishing since twenty eleven. Keith Jefferson was
in a situation where he had a very manipulative father.
The father, by the way, freaks me out. He had
a very manipulative father. He was required to be obedient
at all times, he was given conflicting information about what
(10:59):
ethical standards were and how to behave, and he was
isolated from his family, even by his own siblings.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
What's incredible, though, is that Al Carlisle's family gave us
the tapes of his interviews with Jessperson in prison, and
you can hear the intimate details and how much Keith
opened up to him.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Brad the older, Brad was a younger. Bruce is the oldest.
When did they start calling you? Igor?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Was my junior high I was in eighth grade, and
then Brad was in the seventh grade and he wanted
to be big with his friends, so he started calling
me Igor because of the Monster movies, and I figured
out was his psidekick. I was big physically at the
time and slow slow physically.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Well, I was. I was. I was big, and I
was not very well co ordinated.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
No, not really intelligent. I'm very intelligent. But I just
didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 11 (12:11):
Keith was made to pay his own room and board
when the other kids were not made to do that,
so he would be an example to the other siblings.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
And this was when he was twelve thirteen years old, precisely.
Speaker 11 (12:23):
Yes, you know, the father forced him to work. He
got paid a pittance. Most of that money went back
to roomin to board, and whatever was left over the
father basically took out of the bank account. And whenever
he got into trouble, everybody pointed the finger at Keith.
His siblings did, his father did, his friends did. He
was isolated, harboring a lot of resentment, violent rage like
(12:47):
resentment towards his father. And I mean, what was that
story about him, the boy when he was about eight
years old who kept blaming him for things and then
Keith let loose and tried to beat him to death.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Oh, I have a memory that kid young.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, it was just he was every time he would say,
well Keith did this, and Keith did that, and I'd
get the belt and I'd get nailed and I'd get
punished and so forth, he'd sit back laugh hah ha ha,
this is funny. And one day, I caught him off
the back door when he was ready to scream Keith
(13:21):
did it and I was beating him, damn or to death.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
You're old when I was about eight years old at
the time, when you were eating the kid, did you
feel you're in control? Did you just lose it with
his song? I just lost it. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
I don't think they had anything to do with control,
and just had paybacks a bitch, you know. And I
just grabbed him and just started wailing him. Of course
I didn't know him to stop. I was going to
beat him to death.
Speaker 11 (13:52):
He was put in a position where he could not win,
and he could not take his rage out on his
father because father I had have dialed in. So he
took his rage out on the closest person to him,
who was embarrassing him.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
You know, I sure taught him elast him. So even
by the age of eight, it was a lot of anger.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, there was anger there, angers, Yeah you do me wrong.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
It was like, yeah, I was you doing me wrong?
I was I was gonna. I was bounding and determined
to get even from I.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
The creation of a serial killer by Jack Olsen, sometimes
the Jesperson males proud the creek banks for muskrats. I'd
yank one out of the water by its tail and
throw it up on the bank. Then Dad or one
of my brothers would club it to death. We also
killed gophers, hundreds of them. They were a farm pest
(14:54):
and nobody missed them. Dad has films of us boys
blood splattered from k killing gophers and other varmints. It
was our form of recreation. After we grew up and
got married, Dad liked to show the film to our wives.
He would joke watch my natural born killers as they
dispense of their victims. You don't want to run into
(15:16):
them in a dark alley.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
Based on their jail health interview. What did al make
of my dad's childhood.
Speaker 10 (15:41):
He was fascinated by his passivity, you know, Keith's passivity
as a child. This dichonomous behavior of a shy and
passive child who becomes fully the opposite as an adult
was very interesting to him. He understood how Keith was
bitter about the control his father had over him. He
(16:03):
knew he wasn't able to stand up to his father's dominance,
but Keith accepted it, you know, as his lot.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
In life and he kind of liked it because well
he did full trapped by his father. He was afraid
of his father. He also had a strong desire to
have his dad love him.
Speaker 8 (16:23):
I feared my grandfather like even though he never hit me,
I was terrified at my grandfather being angry with me
because I don't know what he would do.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Maybe even know about the motorcycle story.
Speaker 9 (16:36):
I do. I do. So he has this motorcycle, Keith
that he saved up money for a brand new motorcycle. Okay,
it's not a piece of junk like from cobble together Junkyard.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
And I had bought it in a seven p fifty
hand a motorcycle. It was a seventy four brand new
gold Mati orange, you know, like a bright orange colored.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
It was a beautiful bike.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
And it came hunting season and I was working for
Dad at the time, and Brad and I wanted to
go hunting over on the coast by Klama. Of course,
we need a four wheel drive and I was gonna
use the company pickup. Well, I said, Dad, can I
use the company pick up? And he says, shirkey, But
one stipulation and I knew was coming, and he says,
(17:25):
you leave me your motorcycle so I could go on
a motorcycle ride with that. And I said no, because
you're gonna get drunk and you're gonna get on it
and you're gonna wreck the bike.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Oh I am gonna drink. And I said no, I
false promises.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
You know, well, in order for me to get to
pick up, I had to give him the bike. So
I get to pick up, and I load up and
the Honting supplies and we take off over the Klama.
We have a hell of a nice time all weekend long.
(18:00):
I got in the morning on Monday morning, I go
back to the dump truck in the backyard. We have
a swimming pool to dig that day. And I walked
through the back door and I said, where the hell's
dad at? And we got this swimming pool to dig
over here, And Mom said, oh, you don't know.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
He says he wrecked the motorcycle. He's in the hospital.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And I guess Keith was on an architect trip or something.
What happened when he came back, do you know?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well, then Keith had to run the businesses. He had
to do everything. He was the sole provider for two families.
His dad and mine.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Ours, and so I call up the company there.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
The people that were going to do the swimming pool
told me I wouldn't be there. My dad's in the
hospital and I have to go take care of business.
So I go to Sainte's hospital and there he his
dad up there on the floor and he's they operated
on reports blane and his face is all bandaged up,
kind of nose and down are off.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
He hit a bob wire and I cut up his intestines.
He has a big stars. He had a big scar
in his face.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I get up there and he's like looked at me,
and I said, well, what happened?
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Daddy?
Speaker 12 (19:11):
You gotta you gotta get back that motorcycle you got.
You gotta take care of all the evidence. Keith, you
gotta take care of it. I said, what what do
you mean to take care of us? Go get rid
of it. So you've been drinkingnoyment? He said, just take
care of it way you said, we.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Don't want that insurance company knowing that I was riding drunk.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Did Keith drink No?
Speaker 8 (19:31):
No, it was absolutely like no alcohol.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
He was the only one out of all my aunts
and uncle said, didn't drink at all. I I grew
up and you didn't drink either. You and dad didn't
drink at all.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And I'm growing up no, because my father was an
alcoholic too, and so you either choose it or you don't.
And I chose not to. And that's your dad chose
not to drink either.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
But I get up to my dad and I sat
up to the hospital and my mom's there, and I said, well, Dad,
I got rid of all that. And he said, good good,
good goodness. Now, why were you drinking on my motor
my motorcycle? Says I wasn't drinking on your motorcycle. Yes,
your word, he says, prove it. You can't prove it.
So you got rid of all the evidence, so you
can't prove shit.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
I'll give you your Cota Molliqua for your lotter olive.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
You drunk of all up?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Whoa, And that's basically how it all lands up, says
everything is.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
I was covering up everything. I said. I was like
eighteen at that time.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Less basically made Keith go hide the evidence so that
he could get insurance money that it didn't know.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It wouldn't surprise me because LUs was very famous for that.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
His business ethics of that was that the boss was
always right and the employees were always wrong, which.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
Man the employee took the heat. Yes, it did, and
I'm just getting to that.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
His idea was that if there's any problems that occurred
on the job, that I would get shit on and
he would get the glory of saying I'm sorry or
whatever like that. I'll it'll never happen, you know, I'll
just make sure my son never does this stuff again.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
So I was like the blueted an idiot, you know,
and doing all that.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
And I kind of laughed one day because my dad
was on the bacco when he was digging next to
his house and he put the bucket right through the
side of the house. He has no depth perception. That
was one of his problems. That he stuck the bucket
to the side of the house. And the people were
in the house and they were looking out and they
saw him running thebacco right and they come running out
(21:51):
of the corner. But by the time they got around
to who the bacca was, he'd already stop machine.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
And he'd gotten me on that. And they were looking at.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
Him and looked at me, and I said, I did it,
and they were like, why do you put up with that?
Speaker 6 (22:06):
I said, that's the way it is. I am the
ship on.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Less told him this is the way what you're going
to say in court, and Keith did in order for
them to win a court case for the motilepart line
or absolutely did it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Seems like he wasn't the most honest man.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
No, no, he wasn't. He swindled people. I called him
a swindler, and he had a really good lawyer.
Speaker 11 (22:38):
My understanding is that, how do I say this? Left
to his own devices, Keith would have been a pretty
happy kid. He described his childhood as being fairly happy,
and he would have probably not Harvard as much rage.
He probably would have been somebody who got along with people.
(23:00):
But from al to me, from Keith to tell to me,
his childhood was more a matter of he was the target.
He was the scapegoat, for lack of a better word,
of everybody's need to avoid Less's rage or manipulation or
whatever it is. He had nobody backing him up, and
(23:23):
he didn't even know how to back himself up, so
all he could do was absorb all this negative energy
about everything that was going on.
Speaker 13 (23:46):
There's an interview with your dad about your grandfather made
him go visit a friend of your grandfather's who was dying,
and your dad was really resentful because he had to
go sit and make conversations with his dying man, because
your grandfather said nobody should have to die alone. And
your dad was talking to the guy before he realized
(24:08):
he had already passed away.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I had no idea about this.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Dad still treated me like the run of the litter,
Daddy's little helper. He dragged me to a nursing home
to visit one of his hunting buddies. He said, my
friend Smitty's not doing too good with his lung cancer. Keith,
I'm going out in the hall talk to him, son.
Nobody likes to die alone. I'm sitting there listening to
(24:40):
the rattley breathing, watching his life draane out. After a while,
Smitty goes limp. I'm holding his hand for ten or
fifteen minutes before I realize he's dead. On our way home,
he said, Keith, someday you'll thank me for putting you
through this. I never feared a dead person after that.
(25:04):
When I was killing, I'd talked to my victims as
if they were still alive. It was something to thank
to add for.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My dad was really good about telling his story, his narrative,
and he'd be everybody to the punch and it would
just when his story came forward, people always judged everybody
else's tail against what he had to say. My dad
had ownership, like the truth was his. He owned the
(25:37):
truth and it was not debatable. His air of certainty
definitely played a part in other people believing in him
and why probably his victims believed in him and trusted
him over their own voices. He exuded confidence and certainty
and whatever he said was truth and you can rely
(26:00):
upon it and you could trust it, but.
Speaker 9 (26:05):
Not really.
Speaker 11 (26:16):
May I ask a question, Yes, why is it that
when Rose left Keith and took the kids, she went
over to Lesson's house?
Speaker 9 (26:27):
What do you mean?
Speaker 11 (26:29):
The story that I got was when she left and
emptied the house, the first place she went was Less's house.
That is a direct quote from the history that I
was reading this morning, and I can share that with
you if you need me to.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
From from Keith.
Speaker 11 (26:45):
Yeah, Oh, that's that's that's the story that I got.
It could be wrong, but that's the story that that
AL got.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
That's interesting that he would say that I was there
that didn't happen. Okay, I was there the day that
they left. That would make sense that my dad was
shared that's story to shame my mother and put her
into that frame of light.
Speaker 11 (27:04):
Oh.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
I actually remember play by play, minute by minute of
that day that they separated, And there was not one
single time that we went over to my grandparents' house.
Matter of fact, they were gone, and there was not
anything that we cleaned out in that property because we
left in the four Topaz, which is just a little
family sedan. We didn't take a single item from that
house other than the clothes that we needed for like
(27:26):
a couple days. Wow.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
So that is not the story that I got from
al from Keith. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
So that's interesting that he came up with this this
new story, a new spin.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
What happened?
Speaker 11 (27:41):
Well, I'm glad I asked, because honestly, I bought the
story that Keith gave out. You know, I mean, it
seemed reasonable. She left, she took everything, whether she went
over to the father's house. Some of this is fantasy.
Some of this is making Keith feel better about himself.
So how truthful, was he without?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Now it's all right to lie, it's all right to
be gnising and so forth.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
You can. You can do that because you're an adult,
you know you can do that. But when you're a kid,
you can't lie to your parents.
Speaker 14 (28:13):
You know, because you know he called, you know he
would call on hokus And I remember you comforting me
after one particular phone call where we were living on
a street over here.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And he called and said he was suicidal because of
having paiy child support. And then he because it was
such a burden for him, and it made me upset
because I felt blamed. He's blaming me for having a
pay child support. But then it went another step further.
He said, you know, I drove past the prison today,
(28:48):
the organ State Prison. I just like chewed my horn
and said I'll be there soon, as we said in
the call. But I remember crying and going to my
room and you came after me. You're like, what's wrong, Melissa,
And I said, you know, Doug said he's going to
kill himself. And you got so mad, you got so bad,
(29:08):
you stormed out of my room. You called him back up,
and you said you you saw have a bitch I
heard you'd like. That was the first time I ever
saw you mad. You're like because I really.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Felt the whole time he was playing on us. You know,
I got pit child support, so.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
You I separated in nineteen ninety and then he how
did you find out in nineteen ninety five? Didn't you
receive a letter from him?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I received a letter maybe a week before he got arrested.
And in this letter it said, Rose, what I did
is bigger than O. J.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
Simpson.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
He said, I'll probably be in hell forever Keith, and
I thought, you are so full of crap. I mean, like,
it's what this is supposed to mean? Right, shredded a
piece through in the trash directly to you. It was
directly to me.
Speaker 7 (30:03):
I didn't say anything about us kids.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It just was like, I did something bigger than oh J.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Simpson gentle.
Speaker 8 (30:19):
So you know God is a man, gentle.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Man, so you know God is a ansome.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
I like Beddy good poet God.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's song. So gots it's back Genzl people.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Who we was.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh Happy Face is a production of how Stuff For
Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Mangesh Hatiketur
and Will Pearson. Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by
Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer.
Story editor is Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays
(31:17):
and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chicogne. Special thanks
to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper, and
the Carlisle family.
Previously on Happy Face.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I got a phone call and this guy says, I
know where you're at. You're in the kitchen and you're
wearing this. Keith states that he hired somewhat.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
My mom had just said that her and my dad
were separating, which I did believe.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I wanted to keep like you guys's baby pictures, and
he chucked out all up.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
He wasn't exactly a faithful lust.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Oh absolutely not tell me about your wedding day. They
were doing pictures of me, and I guess he was
outside kissing the bridesmaids, my best friend.
Speaker 5 (00:36):
After the second murder, the Happy Face killer says he
realized he liked what he was doing.
Speaker 6 (00:41):
This triggered something in me. He said, it was getting easy,
real easy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The first year with Melissa had went through two fires.
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Keith Tait.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The vent I had a little toilet cover and it
caught it on fire, and the whole bathroom was in golf.
Then shortly after that we go camping and then I
heard a bear. He cleaned fish in front of the
cabin and he was sleeping in the car.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
He started killing in nineteen ninety and he stopped in
ninety five.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
The five years is not an isolated event.
Speaker 7 (01:16):
It was an escalation.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I think he was groomed to be who he is.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
In the vite, in the fight with the Sun. I
don't know, shine o.
Speaker 9 (01:32):
Shiver oh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Through.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
One of the biggest questions you're faced with when looking
at the lives of serial killers is where did it
all begin? What makes a person become a killer? Is
it something that's passed down through generations or is there
a single moment that can turn someone from a normal
human being with a job and a family into a monster?
(02:08):
Are serial killers made or are they born? I'm Lauren
brad Pacheco, and this is happy face.
Speaker 8 (02:21):
I remember the first time I saw my father in prison,
and the first thing he said to me was Missy,
do you want to know why?
Speaker 7 (02:32):
And at the time, I couldn't.
Speaker 8 (02:36):
I couldn't handle the answer, and honestly, I thought whatever
he was going to tell me would be just him
trying to justify what he's done or to minimize what
he's done, and so I didn't want some pacifying answer.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
So I said no.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
And I regretted that moment for so many years now
because I want to know why.
Speaker 9 (03:15):
Why about my father had.
Speaker 8 (03:16):
An interest in crime was because he wanted to become
a police officer in Canada. He wanted to be a Mountie,
and he was declined from becoming that because of an
injury he sustained in high school. What he told me
is that in gym class, they do this rope exercise
where they climb the rope to the ceiling of the gym,
(03:38):
which is quite high.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
They say, now when they interview killers, people who've been
perpetually in jail, they have found that a large percentage
of them had damaged their frontal lobe before they were
twenty two, changes their whole personality. Keith fell in high school.
I believe it was twenty five feet. He was on
(04:02):
the very top of the rope and I let go.
He fell to the gym floor.
Speaker 8 (04:10):
He sustained a head injury and broke his hip, and
this impacted his ability to join the force. I don't
believe my dad ever got over that. It was something
that he carried on in conversations, that there was a
sense of resentment that he was now a long haul
truck driver when he could have.
Speaker 7 (04:31):
Had this other life that was just out of his grasp.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
But as Melissa's mom, Rose told us, She really thinks
that Keith was conditioned to be a killer, groomed to
be one by his own father less, and that's something
we felt we had to explore.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olsen,
The Jesperson children grew up in a rural atmosphere, first
in Chiliwack, British Columbia, later two hundred and fifty miles
south in Sale, Washington, an apple scented orchard community of
ten thousand. Keith's perpetually mobile father built the family's Chiliwack
(05:23):
home on land as ancestors homestead, and in nineteen oh
nine moved the house from the city to a pastoral
area outside of town. Cleared five acres with a borrowed bulldozer,
built a barn with a loft for his children and
a wooden bridge big enough for the family horses to
cross the little creek that rose from the springs above
the property line. Later, he damned the creek and built
(05:45):
a water wheel to trap chinook and silver salmon as
they swam up from the Vetter River to spawn.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
If you read jack Olson's biography of Keith, the way
in which he describes Keith's father less It's very clear
that Less was a very resourceful, ingenious man, the kind
of guy who could build a barn from scratch or
create a water wheel to catch fish for dinner. But
(06:18):
what also is clear is that he could be a monster.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We decided that we didn't want to live near your
grandfather anymore.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
Why he was horrible. I hated him. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He would without warning, open up the door to our
house and he goes, we just sleep.
Speaker 8 (06:39):
With me to you, to me, I had no idea.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, your father in law, Yes, your father in law
hit on you, yes, more than once, Like well.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I would be I'd be sitting right next to
Keith and he would come and he'd pinch me, and
I was thinking, Keith, what are you doing? And then
I see his hand and they start giggling. I don't
know who I was more angry with Keith for not
protecting me or for Less for doing it.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So you think Keith knew his father would make passes
at you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well he was right there, and they thought it was
a joke. And the only time I was saved is
when I was pregnant with Melissa. Then I was off
the tables.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Keith's attitude towards marriage very much mirrored the relationship he
saw unfold between his own father and his mother, Gladys.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Knew that last beat the kids a lot. I don't
know if he beat Gladys or not, but I know
that there was problems between Gladys and least because when
we were for married, Keith goes, I have to go
down to the house and they go okay. So he
went down to the house, came back and he was
(08:07):
really visibly upset. I said, so what went on? He goes, yeah,
mom and dad got in a fight, and I guess
dad cut every telephone wire in the house.
Speaker 7 (08:17):
Was less a drinker.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
He was a heavy alcoholic.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
One of the few people that Keith opened up to
about his childhood was a true crime author and psychologist
named al Carlyle. Melissa met him almost completely by chance.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
I was invited to go to crime con and this
gentleman approached the booth and he said, hey, you know,
I've got this author who's working on serial killers. And
he said, well, his name is al Carlyle and he
studied Ted Bundy and he's working on a chapter of
the serial killer named Keith Hunter. Jesperson so when I
(09:14):
got that calm, I called him immediately, and I loved
his perspective. He had stories that I've never even heard
of before about the man I thought I knew.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Unfortunately, the night before we were supposed to interview Al Carlyle,
he passed away in his sleep, and it was heartbreaking.
He was such a fascinating, brilliant man. But we were
able to reach out to Stephen Booth, his publisher, and
also to Carrie Ann Keller, who was his researcher and
(09:50):
writing assistant.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Keith felt that I had a real mission to understand
bylent behavior, so that was their common ground. They each
felt the other could provide valuable information. Once Al was
up there interviewing Keith, and Keith said to Al, I
could reach over this table and snap your head before
(10:13):
the guard would even notice. I don't because I don't
want to lose my privileges. He wasn't threatening Al, he
was just making a point about his size. Okay, So
that's how you have to understand how Keith could talk.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
So it's like.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Being in a room with a loaded gun.
Speaker 9 (10:31):
Oh yeah, for sure, definitely you feel it.
Speaker 11 (10:36):
My name is Stephen Booth. I have been the publisher
at Genius Book Publishing since twenty eleven. Keith Jefferson was
in a situation where he had a very manipulative father.
The father, by the way, freaks me out. He had
a very manipulative father. He was required to be obedient
at all times, he was given conflicting information about what
(10:59):
ethical standards were and how to behave, and he was
isolated from his family, even by his own siblings.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
What's incredible, though, is that Al Carlisle's family gave us
the tapes of his interviews with Jessperson in prison, and
you can hear the intimate details and how much Keith
opened up to him.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Brad the older, Brad was a younger. Bruce is the oldest.
When did they start calling you? Igor?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Was my junior high I was in eighth grade, and
then Brad was in the seventh grade and he wanted
to be big with his friends, so he started calling
me Igor because of the Monster movies, and I figured
out was his psidekick. I was big physically at the
time and slow slow physically.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
Well, I was. I was. I was big, and I
was not very well co ordinated.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
No, not really intelligent. I'm very intelligent. But I just
didn't adapt myself to it.
Speaker 11 (12:11):
Keith was made to pay his own room and board
when the other kids were not made to do that,
so he would be an example to the other siblings.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
And this was when he was twelve thirteen years old, precisely.
Speaker 11 (12:23):
Yes, you know, the father forced him to work. He
got paid a pittance. Most of that money went back
to roomin to board, and whatever was left over the
father basically took out of the bank account. And whenever
he got into trouble, everybody pointed the finger at Keith.
His siblings did, his father did, his friends did. He
was isolated, harboring a lot of resentment, violent rage like
(12:47):
resentment towards his father. And I mean, what was that
story about him, the boy when he was about eight
years old who kept blaming him for things and then
Keith let loose and tried to beat him to death.
Speaker 6 (12:59):
Oh, I have a memory that kid young.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, it was just he was every time he would say,
well Keith did this, and Keith did that, and I'd
get the belt and I'd get nailed and I'd get
punished and so forth, he'd sit back laugh hah ha ha,
this is funny. And one day, I caught him off
the back door when he was ready to scream Keith
(13:21):
did it and I was beating him, damn or to death.
Speaker 6 (13:24):
You're old when I was about eight years old at
the time, when you were eating the kid, did you
feel you're in control? Did you just lose it with
his song? I just lost it. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
I don't think they had anything to do with control,
and just had paybacks a bitch, you know. And I
just grabbed him and just started wailing him. Of course
I didn't know him to stop. I was going to
beat him to death.
Speaker 11 (13:52):
He was put in a position where he could not win,
and he could not take his rage out on his
father because father I had have dialed in. So he
took his rage out on the closest person to him,
who was embarrassing him.
Speaker 6 (14:07):
You know, I sure taught him elast him. So even
by the age of eight, it was a lot of anger.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, there was anger there, angers, Yeah you do me wrong.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
It was like, yeah, I was you doing me wrong?
I was I was gonna. I was bounding and determined
to get even from I.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
The creation of a serial killer by Jack Olsen, sometimes
the Jesperson males proud the creek banks for muskrats. I'd
yank one out of the water by its tail and
throw it up on the bank. Then Dad or one
of my brothers would club it to death. We also
killed gophers, hundreds of them. They were a farm pest
(14:54):
and nobody missed them. Dad has films of us boys
blood splattered from k killing gophers and other varmints. It
was our form of recreation. After we grew up and
got married, Dad liked to show the film to our wives.
He would joke watch my natural born killers as they
dispense of their victims. You don't want to run into
(15:16):
them in a dark alley.
Speaker 7 (15:35):
Based on their jail health interview. What did al make
of my dad's childhood.
Speaker 10 (15:41):
He was fascinated by his passivity, you know, Keith's passivity
as a child. This dichonomous behavior of a shy and
passive child who becomes fully the opposite as an adult
was very interesting to him. He understood how Keith was
bitter about the control his father had over him. He
(16:03):
knew he wasn't able to stand up to his father's dominance,
but Keith accepted it, you know, as his lot.
Speaker 9 (16:09):
In life and he kind of liked it because well
he did full trapped by his father. He was afraid
of his father. He also had a strong desire to
have his dad love him.
Speaker 8 (16:23):
I feared my grandfather like even though he never hit me,
I was terrified at my grandfather being angry with me
because I don't know what he would do.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Maybe even know about the motorcycle story.
Speaker 9 (16:36):
I do. I do. So he has this motorcycle, Keith
that he saved up money for a brand new motorcycle. Okay,
it's not a piece of junk like from cobble together Junkyard.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
And I had bought it in a seven p fifty
hand a motorcycle. It was a seventy four brand new
gold Mati orange, you know, like a bright orange colored.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
It was a beautiful bike.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
And it came hunting season and I was working for
Dad at the time, and Brad and I wanted to
go hunting over on the coast by Klama. Of course,
we need a four wheel drive and I was gonna
use the company pickup. Well, I said, Dad, can I
use the company pick up? And he says, shirkey, But
one stipulation and I knew was coming, and he says,
(17:25):
you leave me your motorcycle so I could go on
a motorcycle ride with that. And I said no, because
you're gonna get drunk and you're gonna get on it
and you're gonna wreck the bike.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
Oh I am gonna drink. And I said no, I
false promises.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
You know, well, in order for me to get to
pick up, I had to give him the bike. So
I get to pick up, and I load up and
the Honting supplies and we take off over the Klama.
We have a hell of a nice time all weekend long.
(18:00):
I got in the morning on Monday morning, I go
back to the dump truck in the backyard. We have
a swimming pool to dig that day. And I walked
through the back door and I said, where the hell's
dad at? And we got this swimming pool to dig
over here, And Mom said, oh, you don't know.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
He says he wrecked the motorcycle. He's in the hospital.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And I guess Keith was on an architect trip or something.
What happened when he came back, do you know?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well, then Keith had to run the businesses. He had
to do everything. He was the sole provider for two families.
His dad and mine.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Ours, and so I call up the company there.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
The people that were going to do the swimming pool
told me I wouldn't be there. My dad's in the
hospital and I have to go take care of business.
So I go to Sainte's hospital and there he his
dad up there on the floor and he's they operated
on reports blane and his face is all bandaged up,
kind of nose and down are off.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
He hit a bob wire and I cut up his intestines.
He has a big stars. He had a big scar
in his face.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I get up there and he's like looked at me,
and I said, well, what happened?
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Daddy?
Speaker 12 (19:11):
You gotta you gotta get back that motorcycle you got.
You gotta take care of all the evidence. Keith, you
gotta take care of it. I said, what what do
you mean to take care of us? Go get rid
of it. So you've been drinkingnoyment? He said, just take
care of it way you said, we.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Don't want that insurance company knowing that I was riding drunk.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Did Keith drink No?
Speaker 8 (19:31):
No, it was absolutely like no alcohol.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
He was the only one out of all my aunts
and uncle said, didn't drink at all. I I grew
up and you didn't drink either. You and dad didn't
drink at all.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And I'm growing up no, because my father was an
alcoholic too, and so you either choose it or you don't.
And I chose not to. And that's your dad chose
not to drink either.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
But I get up to my dad and I sat
up to the hospital and my mom's there, and I said, well, Dad,
I got rid of all that. And he said, good good,
good goodness. Now, why were you drinking on my motor
my motorcycle? Says I wasn't drinking on your motorcycle. Yes,
your word, he says, prove it. You can't prove it.
So you got rid of all the evidence, so you
can't prove shit.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
I'll give you your Cota Molliqua for your lotter olive.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
You drunk of all up?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Whoa, And that's basically how it all lands up, says
everything is.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
I was covering up everything. I said. I was like
eighteen at that time.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Less basically made Keith go hide the evidence so that
he could get insurance money that it didn't know.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It wouldn't surprise me because LUs was very famous for that.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
His business ethics of that was that the boss was
always right and the employees were always wrong, which.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
Man the employee took the heat. Yes, it did, and
I'm just getting to that.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
His idea was that if there's any problems that occurred
on the job, that I would get shit on and
he would get the glory of saying I'm sorry or
whatever like that. I'll it'll never happen, you know, I'll
just make sure my son never does this stuff again.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
So I was like the blueted an idiot, you know,
and doing all that.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
And I kind of laughed one day because my dad
was on the bacco when he was digging next to
his house and he put the bucket right through the
side of the house. He has no depth perception. That
was one of his problems. That he stuck the bucket
to the side of the house. And the people were
in the house and they were looking out and they
saw him running thebacco right and they come running out
(21:51):
of the corner. But by the time they got around
to who the bacca was, he'd already stop machine.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
And he'd gotten me on that. And they were looking at.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
Him and looked at me, and I said, I did it,
and they were like, why do you put up with that?
Speaker 6 (22:06):
I said, that's the way it is. I am the
ship on.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Less told him this is the way what you're going
to say in court, and Keith did in order for
them to win a court case for the motilepart line
or absolutely did it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Seems like he wasn't the most honest man.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
No, no, he wasn't. He swindled people. I called him
a swindler, and he had a really good lawyer.
Speaker 11 (22:38):
My understanding is that, how do I say this? Left
to his own devices, Keith would have been a pretty
happy kid. He described his childhood as being fairly happy,
and he would have probably not Harvard as much rage.
He probably would have been somebody who got along with people.
(23:00):
But from al to me, from Keith to tell to me,
his childhood was more a matter of he was the target.
He was the scapegoat, for lack of a better word,
of everybody's need to avoid Less's rage or manipulation or
whatever it is. He had nobody backing him up, and
(23:23):
he didn't even know how to back himself up, so
all he could do was absorb all this negative energy
about everything that was going on.
Speaker 13 (23:46):
There's an interview with your dad about your grandfather made
him go visit a friend of your grandfather's who was dying,
and your dad was really resentful because he had to
go sit and make conversations with his dying man, because
your grandfather said nobody should have to die alone. And
your dad was talking to the guy before he realized
(24:08):
he had already passed away.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I had no idea about this.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Dad still treated me like the run of the litter,
Daddy's little helper. He dragged me to a nursing home
to visit one of his hunting buddies. He said, my
friend Smitty's not doing too good with his lung cancer. Keith,
I'm going out in the hall talk to him, son.
Nobody likes to die alone. I'm sitting there listening to
(24:40):
the rattley breathing, watching his life draane out. After a while,
Smitty goes limp. I'm holding his hand for ten or
fifteen minutes before I realize he's dead. On our way home,
he said, Keith, someday you'll thank me for putting you
through this. I never feared a dead person after that.
(25:04):
When I was killing, I'd talked to my victims as
if they were still alive. It was something to thank
to add for.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My dad was really good about telling his story, his narrative,
and he'd be everybody to the punch and it would
just when his story came forward, people always judged everybody
else's tail against what he had to say. My dad
had ownership, like the truth was his. He owned the
(25:37):
truth and it was not debatable. His air of certainty
definitely played a part in other people believing in him
and why probably his victims believed in him and trusted
him over their own voices. He exuded confidence and certainty
and whatever he said was truth and you can rely
(26:00):
upon it and you could trust it, but.
Speaker 9 (26:05):
Not really.
Speaker 11 (26:16):
May I ask a question, Yes, why is it that
when Rose left Keith and took the kids, she went
over to Lesson's house?
Speaker 9 (26:27):
What do you mean?
Speaker 11 (26:29):
The story that I got was when she left and
emptied the house, the first place she went was Less's house.
That is a direct quote from the history that I
was reading this morning, and I can share that with
you if you need me to.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
From from Keith.
Speaker 11 (26:45):
Yeah, Oh, that's that's that's the story that I got.
It could be wrong, but that's the story that that
AL got.
Speaker 7 (26:51):
That's interesting that he would say that I was there
that didn't happen. Okay, I was there the day that
they left. That would make sense that my dad was
shared that's story to shame my mother and put her
into that frame of light.
Speaker 11 (27:04):
Oh.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
I actually remember play by play, minute by minute of
that day that they separated, And there was not one
single time that we went over to my grandparents' house.
Matter of fact, they were gone, and there was not
anything that we cleaned out in that property because we
left in the four Topaz, which is just a little
family sedan. We didn't take a single item from that
house other than the clothes that we needed for like
(27:26):
a couple days. Wow.
Speaker 11 (27:29):
So that is not the story that I got from
al from Keith. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
So that's interesting that he came up with this this
new story, a new spin.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
What happened?
Speaker 11 (27:41):
Well, I'm glad I asked, because honestly, I bought the
story that Keith gave out. You know, I mean, it
seemed reasonable. She left, she took everything, whether she went
over to the father's house. Some of this is fantasy.
Some of this is making Keith feel better about himself.
So how truthful, was he without?
Speaker 5 (28:02):
Now it's all right to lie, it's all right to
be gnising and so forth.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
You can. You can do that because you're an adult,
you know you can do that. But when you're a kid,
you can't lie to your parents.
Speaker 14 (28:13):
You know, because you know he called, you know he
would call on hokus And I remember you comforting me
after one particular phone call where we were living on
a street over here.
Speaker 7 (28:27):
And he called and said he was suicidal because of
having paiy child support. And then he because it was
such a burden for him, and it made me upset
because I felt blamed. He's blaming me for having a
pay child support. But then it went another step further.
He said, you know, I drove past the prison today,
(28:48):
the organ State Prison. I just like chewed my horn
and said I'll be there soon, as we said in
the call. But I remember crying and going to my
room and you came after me. You're like, what's wrong, Melissa,
And I said, you know, Doug said he's going to
kill himself. And you got so mad, you got so bad,
(29:08):
you stormed out of my room. You called him back up,
and you said you you saw have a bitch I
heard you'd like. That was the first time I ever
saw you mad. You're like because I really.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Felt the whole time he was playing on us. You know,
I got pit child support, so.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
You I separated in nineteen ninety and then he how
did you find out in nineteen ninety five? Didn't you
receive a letter from him?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I received a letter maybe a week before he got arrested.
And in this letter it said, Rose, what I did
is bigger than O. J.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
Simpson.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
He said, I'll probably be in hell forever Keith, and
I thought, you are so full of crap. I mean, like,
it's what this is supposed to mean? Right, shredded a
piece through in the trash directly to you. It was
directly to me.
Speaker 7 (30:03):
I didn't say anything about us kids.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It just was like, I did something bigger than oh J.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Simpson gentle.
Speaker 8 (30:19):
So you know God is a man, gentle.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Man, so you know God is a ansome.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
I like Beddy good poet God.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's song. So gots it's back Genzl people.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Who we was.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh Happy Face is a production of how Stuff For
Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Mangesh Hatiketur
and Will Pearson. Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by
Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer.
Story editor is Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays
(31:17):
and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chicogne. Special thanks
to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper, and
the Carlisle family.
Happy Face News
Hosts And Creators
Melissa Moore
Lauren Bright Pacheco
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