Anti-Racist Hoods Fighting in Ukraine (with Jake Hanrahan)

We sit down with Jake Hanrahan to talk about his new documentary.

 

Ukraine's Anti-Fascist Football Hooligans Fighting the Russian Invasion: https://youtu.be/nsodbPkjO3c

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh it could happen here. UM is the podcast. We're
talking about things falling apart, and you know a place
where things have fallen apart a bit is large chunks
of Ukraine due to a Russian invasion. UM. And you
know we've chatted about this a bit on the show.
We've had some interviews with some folks who are living

(00:26):
and fighting over there, and today we're going to talk
with Jake Hanrahan a friend of the pod UM who
has been over a couple of times this year, including
since the more expanded conflict began. It has just released
a new documentary on the popular front YouTube called Ukraine's
Anti Fascist Football Hooligans Fighting the Russian Invasion. Jake, how

(00:47):
you doing, Thanks for having me back, Thanks for being
on now. Jake. First off, I guess we can get
into YouTube censorship stuff, but UM, I want to chat
about like how this story came about and when you
kind of got in contact with these people, because kind
of in brief, what you have, you know, the clips

(01:09):
notes that you hear from like folks who have kind
of an ax to grind is that like you know,
Ukraine is all neo Nazis and the government's all run
by neo Nazis. And the reality is that Ukraine obviously
has a substantial Nazi problem. And as with any country
where you have a substantial Nazi problem and some degree
of freedom in terms of you know, your ability to

(01:30):
organize for other political purposes, you also have a shipload
of people who are anti fascists and who have been
fighting those fascists in the street, um, often with intense
levels of violence. UM. And this is a story about
a group of those people, UM, who have now kind
of retooled their organization and capacity towards fighting the Russian invasion. Yeah, man, exactly, No,

(01:51):
I mean, so what I wanted to do with Popular fund.
You know, I've been reporting from Ukraine since and I've
been there more than ten times on the ground in
the dombas like way before you know, people were focused
on the area and before the invasion, so I was
very aware of. Yeah, there is a significant fascist element
to the militias out there, but it's the same Any

(02:13):
country in Europe that would have a war would have
the exact same thing. Trust me, if we had it
in Britain, we would have a similar issue. You know,
Eastern Europe obviously, it's a little bit more hardcore. Um,
but that's the way it is. That's Eastern Europe for you,
and I will mention just at the top as well,
I would argue that Russia has a much worse neo
Nazi problem. They had more than fifteen people were killed

(02:33):
between by an actual neo Nazi serial killer gang in
Moscow that filmed these attacks. They have a massive neo
Nazi party. Um, you know, they're they're they're exporting Nazis
all across Europe, and we know there is several, um,
you know, well trained neo Nazi battalions fighting for the
pro Russian So it's neither here nor there. Yes, there's

(02:54):
Nazi problems in the region, but I didn't want to
constantly be on this back foot like you know, actually,
yes there's a Nazi problem, but not there's not that.
I was like, how can we do a documentary that's
kind of a positive way to be like, well, instead
of saying no, not everyone is this, or having to
film with a unit and then being like, actually, these
guys are fascists. How can I show you know, like
they're uncomfortable. Yeah, right, like oh a total cough again,

(03:17):
Like it was like, how how can I kind of
put a doc out there where it's like, oh no, actually,
like here's a different side to it, and you know,
this group obviously as soon as the war started again.
Ukraine is a country of forty four million people and
it's a very diverse, a very smart, very open country
in terms of people tell you what they think and

(03:40):
they will argue with you and you won't be you know,
you can have like really serious discussions with people about
politics there and not fall out. You know. Um, so
they're very I think, like a very clever people, are
really nice people. I love Ukraine, I love Ukrainians. So
so it's to me it was I knew about the players, Like, yeah,
of course there's a massive anti fascist element in Ukraine. Okay,

(04:00):
it's definitely smaller than the fascist element, but already since
the war started with there's Eco platform, there's Harky hardcore,
there's the Resistance Committee, Let's hold towards Klan. There's operational solidarity,
like there's a Nestor mac No machine gun repair unit. Like,
there's so many different anti fascist left wing elements to
the conflict. They just get a lot less attention because

(04:23):
the fascists have got really good at propaganda over the years,
and and let's be honest, a lot of the fascist
groups are fighting in the East and right now it's
kind of well, it all hands on deck, right It's
like everyone's like, yeah, okay, we don't really care, like
we just want to not die, which is understandable. So
my point is, um, I looked at this this group,

(04:45):
the Resistance Committee, which is this kind of anti authoritarian
um you know, coalition of various different units. They have
um Red Deer under their wing, which is an anarchist
group in Ukraine that I made a documentary with a
few years ago. So I was looking at maybe we'll
do a dock of Deer again now that they're fighting
on the front. But then I see this other group
with them, hood towards Clan and it's like what who Like, Firstly,

(05:08):
the name is kind of weird in the US. That
brings up some unpleasant connotation in the US. Yeah, I
mean it didn't really click to me. But what does
what does like hoods? Hoods mean? So basically, when they
would go and do you know, when they would go
and beat up fascists, they'll be like, right, hood's up
because you're you're like putting your hoodie app so you

(05:29):
don't get like sparted, right, exactly true. The bards up, um,
there's totage of them beating up Nazis as well chanting.
They had a chance towards like, you know, to put
the fucking fear into them, like as hell yeah yeah.
And then Clan, I mean the Ukrainian translation of clan.
It's with the k. It's not about the you know,
it's just as Anglicization can lead to some unfortunate things,

(05:52):
right right. But also you know, they're smart guys and
at first I thought this wasn't true, but then I
spoke to me it was true. They were kind of aware.
They're like yeah, HHK who tolds Klan. They're kind of
trolling KKK, like it's like a second meaning because in Ukraine,
you know, they've got that culture. They're very cheeky. They
think it's very funny to be like ha ha, you know,
fuck you. Um, So for them, they were like, yeah,

(06:14):
we're basically trolling the fascists, like they hear who towards
Clan and they're like surprised, Sorry, we're anti fascists, you
know what I mean, your head's broken so it was
kind of that vibe, and you know, they didn't really
think about it. And when I asked Anton, you know,
he's like the kind of the fact old leader. He
was like he told me this, and then he was like,
I just kind of wanted to piss people off as well. Um.
And you you gotta remember, these guys started over ten

(06:36):
years ago, before you know, politics was as online as
it is, um, and they started off in the hardcore
punk scene. Now you know, I'm sure you know, like
you know, hardcore punk, especially in Europe is like a
very very exciting, very fun, very happy and like Gnali
fucking scene. So for them, it was like yeah, with
a who towards clan, like you know what I mean.
But but unfortunately some people in America are like why

(06:58):
they go to hood to clan? I don't believe they're
anti fast. It's just like, mate, there's olvers seventy videos
of them beating up Nazis. Successfully. It's a whole continent
that doesn't have the same history as the United States, right.
You can't mean yeah, yeah, I mean even if you
said in England like KKK, like now, people would be
like who oh yeah, Like yeah, I've heard of that.

(07:19):
It's not like we didn't have it here like that.
You know, yeah, it's one of those. So, I mean
one of the things that's um, that's interesting here that
you you hit on in your documentary is like these folks,
the that that these are not just like um, anti
authoritarian folks, They're they're very much committed to anti racism,
which is um, you know a place like Ukraine where uh,

(07:40):
the history of their being you know, folks who are
not white is not quite as extensive as it is
in a lot of places. It's really interesting to me
to have people who are kind of organizing specifically for
that purpose. Um, and I think, really cool. Yeah, yeah,
it is really cool. And it's for them what I
found very fascinating is it's just natural. So you know,
I said, know their political I geology. Some of them

(08:01):
are like, well, some of us are anarchists, some of
us are kind of anti fascists, but otherwise kind of
a political and you know, when it's very simple for them,
it's like why are you I asked, how come you
guys are anti fascists? And they're like, well, we just
see life differently, Like you know, it's like obviously like
there was no big political theory. It was just like, no,
it's just basically they were like it's just wrong, you know,

(08:23):
like fascism is just wrong, and we're tough guys, you know,
and we joined. We were we wanted to be the
ones that said no, we're not the fascists were the
anti fascists, and luckily for them, they had a really
good friendship group and a very solid group who were
all very good at combat sports, and like in the dock,
you know, Anton says, our enemies is almost every other

(08:43):
Ukrainian football firm in the whole of the country. You
will ask even their enemies, they will tell you like, yeah, unfortunately,
those guys are tough. You know, they can fight, you know,
they have to be, so yeah, exactly, they had to be.
They were like we had to be, you know. So
I mean, I do my research. I've found um kind
of a fascist football ultras forum in Eastern Europe that

(09:05):
banned any mention of Hoodswood's Klan, And it kind of
boiled down to the fact they were just so embarrassed
that so many of the fascist groups were getting beaten
up like by by anti fascists and often outnumbered. You know,
it even got to a point where Hudswards Clan weren't
allowed to They wouldn't even talk to them to do
like arranged fights anymore in the field. So instead of quitting,

(09:26):
Hudson's Clan said, okay, then when we see you, we'll
just beat you up in the subway, We'll beat you
up in the street like you know. And a lot
of people might say, oh, well, this is violent. So
for me, the football Holuganism side of it, I don't
see an issue with it personally. I mean, they're not
attacking anyone innocent, they're not attacking by standards. It was
all very contained. It was all very you know, it
was that was their thing, you know, so that that

(09:47):
to me is whatever. And when you're talking about neo
Nazi groups that were i mean in Ukraine that they've
stabbed up the Roma community, they're destroying LGBT events, and
you know, hu Clan were just like, no, we're not
about that. We don't I think you should do that.
And so they formed and for ten years they were fighting.
But now they have called a truth because they're like

(10:07):
you know, Anton explains in the dock, he says, look,
there's a bigger problem now because Ukraine is actually not
a Nazi junta, as the Kremlin says, it's actually quite
easy to kind of you know, it's a very small
subset in the in the relative size of the actual military,
so you know, it's actually for them, they said, well, yeah,
it makes sense we put all our other political differences
aside because this is way bigger. You're talking about one

(10:29):
of the most powerful militaries on earth invading our country
and killing our people. I mean, we've seen the massacres
in Boucher and up in Um. You know, people killed civilians,
hands behind their back, executed in the street. Um. Thirty
of the people killed in Butcher with children. But you know,
this is just insane. So for them they were like, yeah,
we we can, we can call the truth. You know,

(10:50):
we don't like them, but right now we're not going
to beat each other up on the front line. Um.
But I think it really kind of shows the testament
of how serious for towards Clara about fascism that even
whilst in the truth, most of them actually still joined
the resistance committee, the anti authoritarian groups, so they're not
just directly next to fascist battalions. But again you know,

(11:13):
a lot is changing out there on the front now.
I think, yeah, I don't know. Anton said to me,
he was like, I'll be honest with you, like we
didn't put this in the DOT said, to be honest,
I think after this war a lot of these far
right guys might change their minds because now we see
what totalitarianism brings death, you know what I mean. Whether
that whether however that's which we'll thinking or not, I'm
not sure, but you know what I'm saying, because obviously,

(11:33):
like the I mean, I I would obviously I would
hope that that's that's what happens, but I tend to
do it. But yeah, the thing that scares me, of course,
is there's just as at least as much a chance
that you know, they get more powerful. Um, which is
again part of why it's important for folks like Hudson's
plan to be organizing and getting weapons and being prepared

(11:54):
because like, yes, that if that conflict comes after the war,
you know, you don't want the fascist militias to be
the best armed and most organized. Yeah, and this is
the issue. No, but I think for them it's like, Okay,
we'll deal with that when it comes. You know, like,
I think they're very aware that this war is going nowhere,

(12:14):
you know, and you know they say and our dog, Oh,
we just want to go and kill Russian pigs. I mean,
you know what they mean is I mean some people
are like, ooh, that's really bad. I was like, mate,
you're talking about there. There they were. It's a war, right,
they were. They were guarding the areas where the massacres happened,
you know, to client got shelled, trying to get civilians
out of Boradanka when Russians were shelling. You're talking women

(12:38):
and children. Yeah, I'm surprised they said that mildly, you know,
like yeah, like you know, it's a woman, it is
what it is. And also their football holligans they're wild people,
you know. Yeah, it's it's um. I mean that is
kind of interesting though. I'm curious, Um, do you have
kind of a an assessment of what kind of numbers
they're looking at, like how many folks they've actually got

(13:00):
in the field on a regular basis. Yeah, so the
Resistance Committee is I don't know, like fifty hundred right now.
Hoodswoods Clan they have like maybe twenty to thirty year
their guys in that group. But then they also have
other people, um that join different units in the East.
So they were like already military so they didn't have
to go you know, former militia. They just joined the military.

(13:21):
So there's like quite a strong Hoodswoods Clan um mortar
group um. And I know that. So so one of
the footage we included in our documentary where a Russian
tank gets blown up, like very close courters, he gets
hit with the javelin, he's like a hundred feet away.
That was a Hood towards Clan attack. That was one
of their guys doing it, you know. So yeah, so
that there's they're all over the place. Um. Unfortunately, due

(13:44):
to various bureaucracy within the Territorial Defense, I do think
that the resistance Committee might have to split up to
actually get to the front, you know what I mean,
Like they're they're probably gonna have to join other units
because there's some issues that the you know, various people
they're just not sending them out there. It's not because
they're anti fascist or I think there's nothing to do that.
It's it's because you know, it's corruption, man, There's there's

(14:04):
some corruption emerging some some commanders just want to sit,
sit around and not actually have to go to the
front um, Whereas you know, the fighters themselves are desperate
because they're like, you know, our people are dying. We
want to avenge them and we want to stop it.
So you know, right nowhoods have planned essentially on their way.
They're doing a lot more training right now. They've been
given the go ahead. Yeah, they're going to the east

(14:25):
um and as far as I know, they're they're kind
of on route obviously stopping off doing training. I think
they have an up. They're going to be an RPG unit,
so they'll be a very close quarters you know what
I'm saying. So there's going to be Narlie for them.

(14:45):
These guys, as you stated, all kind of started out
as a friend group, right Like they weren't. This isn't
a political party, these aren't like these guys didn't start
as ideological cameras. They were like buddies who were into
the same team and into the same kind of combat sports.
Now they're you know, they're going to be some of
them are going to be dying in front of the others,
which is like a difficulty I think. Um, I'm interested

(15:09):
in kind of how how are they actually organizing sort
of in the field or is it just as I've
heard of a number of like militia units kind of
along the lines of the Ukrainian military, or have they
have they kind of adopted different organizational styles in their
their hoods hoods units as befits sort of their unique
kind of origins. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I

(15:29):
mean it's kind of tricky because essentially there, you know,
I guess, I guess they formed as a militia. You know,
as soon as they were stired, they got guns. But
then you know, Anton was like, we have everything from
the anti fascist networks, everything we need apart from the weapons.
So they had to sign up as a part of
the territorial defense the weapons. So they're under the territorial defense,

(15:50):
as are you know, a hundreds of different people that
did the same thing. Um, so luckily forward towards clan,
I think because they're so close friends. I mean, you
can see it in the dock, you know. I even
the subtitle of our Dock is like, you know, this
is a film about friendship, m violence and resistance, because
that's essentially what it is, you know, So they're very
close friends. So commanders have recognized that that, yeah, this

(16:11):
is a group that is disciplined as well. A lot
of them are straight edge, which is actually a discipline
in itself, you know what I mean. So they're very
well disciplined. They're very good. You know, the training is
very good. They know what they're doing. But they have
like a commander that is from the Territorial Defense if
you like, it's not he's not hood towards clan. He's
ever been assigned a commander sort of thing. Um. So

(16:32):
they're being taught just the same kind of tactics as
anybody else. As they're an RPG unit, I think, you know,
there will be a lot of close quarters stuff, but
they're just doing a lot of a lot of arms training.
There's you know, Constantine and the dock. One of them
is like, I just want to get better faster. They're
just they're very they're very focused on being like not
an elite unit, but they want to get it perfect.

(16:53):
They're not just like, yeah, let's go and kill. They're like,
now we have to be good, you know what I mean.
We have to go in there and have the same
discipline and organization and as we had in the streets
when we were fighting. There was a reason that they
were renowned as being a good street fight in football,
looking firm despite being completely outnumbered. It's because they had
good discipline. Um, they're tough, they trained, and also because

(17:13):
they're good friends. They will have each other's back. It's
it's not hobby for them as a lifestyle, you know. Um. Yeah,
it's just so much went into it. You know. Husklan
started off the back of um anti fascist punk punk
hardcore in Ukraine, and then that itself was a scene,
and then the football organism and then yeah, and now
it's it's crazy, really, it's it's honestly one of the
most fascinating stories I've covered. Now they're fucking frontline unit.

(17:37):
You know. It's it's sad and I hope to guard
nothing happens to any of them. Probably the nicest guys
are filled with you know, um, but yeah, it's it's
it's it's it's a good question, man, and it's very
tricky to know how it's going to happen for them
once they're on the front. I mean, Anton, the main guy,
he has served before he joined the militia to fight
in the Dombas, so they do have some experience, you know,

(17:58):
and it does seem like um kind of their natural
the skills that they've been developing because there's there's, broadly
speaking from my understanding, kind of two main types of
combat going on in Ukraine. There's the what you're seeing
a lot in you know, the down boss, which is
this kind of like meat grinder like frontline ship, and

(18:19):
then there's sort of the seek and destroy kind of stuff,
where you've got people sort of hunting convoys and and
doing ambushes. And it does strike me like these guys
talents would lend themselves more to the ambushes than I mean,
there's not really any talent that helps you in the
in the sitting in a trench meat grinder kind of ship,
but obviously you don't have that choice when you're when
you're serving under you know, the national military. Yeah, yeah,

(18:43):
it's I think you're right, Like they would be much
better um placed as like you know, I guess like
a kind of shooting scoop kind of unit exactly. Yeah,
And I think they will be because you know, the
train with RPG UM some of their fighters already have
javelins on the front um and and laws. So yeah,
I think that's where it will be if they just

(19:05):
put them in some kind of meat grind of position,
which very much could happen, you know. I mean it's
bad for anybody. Let's be realistic. It's getting very bad
in the Don Boss right tonight, man, Yeah, yeah, yeah, um,
I mean, and that's one of the there's been posts
and stuff from people talking about like, um, you know,
the a lot of the funk ups that are happening
because you know, Ukraine started this war with everyone being

(19:27):
kind of overwhelmed by the competence of their military effort,
and now that things in in the Don Boss have
turned into this kind of ugly slog Um, there's been
some you know, oh the you know units getting hit
by their own artillery fire, the kind of messy stuff
that happens when you have a fight like this, right
like it is it is unavoidable, um, when you have

(19:48):
like a situation like has developed in the Don Boss.
But that doesn't make it any less unpleasant, uh, to
endure as an actual soldier, Like It's just it's one
of those I mean, the there's only so much that
like competence and training can do if you wind up
getting squeezed into that kind of position. Yeah, and there's
this is why at a lot of people are even

(20:10):
Ukrainian has actually had a conversation with Ukrainian friend yesterday
that was saying, like, you know, the situation is so
bad in the East. We really need to be honest
about this because you know, if people think it's going
better than it is, okay, it's good for morale, but
it's not good for the guys on the ground, like
they're not going to get what they need. And the
reality is that it's getting really bad and it's not

(20:30):
anything to do with incompetence from the fighters. It's just
the war. The level is being so hot, and you know,
Russia has learned from its mistakes unfortunately from the start
where they completely fucked up. But now you know, things
are getting a little bit hairy. Um, Ukrainians are doing
like an incredible effort. But again it's like, yeah, you're
talking about decades and decades of armor and you know,

(20:55):
um weapons that Russia has and it's all very well,
us being like oh their armories blah blah. I doubt it,
you know, I very much doubt that. Um, it doesn't
look like that, certainly from when people I'm talking to
in the East, you know, so I think again, when
when you know Ukrainians are like, well we do need
more weapons, it's because they need more weapons, you know
what I mean, they really do. Well, this is like

(21:17):
one of the this is uh one of the things
that's that's difficult to I think get across to people, um,
because there is such a you know that we are
dealing with the legacy of decades of shipping weapons places, um,
and not having that helped the conflict in a lot
of in a lot of ways, um, and decades of
stories like you know, all the weapons that got sent

(21:38):
to the Iraqi government and then wound up in isis
is armory and ship um. Which creates kind of an
easy narrative for folks who are like, well, you know,
you're just trying to prolong the conflict in making it
worse by shipping and weapons. But the reality is one
side of this war has a substantial percentage of all
of the artillery that exists on the planet and the

(21:58):
other side does not. Yeah, I do understand the argument,
or like, I totally get it, but it's it's I
lived through the early two thousand's as well. I understand it. Yeah,
It's like war isn't a template. It's not like does
this happened there, this will happened there or whatever, And
it's like you have to weigh it up no matter
what bad is going to come from this. Do you

(22:18):
want the bad to be Okay, there's a problem with
arms in Eastern Ukraine, which the Eastern Europe, which there
already is and it gets worse, or do you want
the bad problem to be Russia has taken over the
whole country, massacred everybody and is unlike undoubtly going to
try and move into other countries. So do you want
aids or do you want cancer? I don't know, you

(22:40):
know what I mean? Do you want the Do you
want the lesson from this to be that if you're
just willing to burn a couple of hundred thousand human
lives as a state like Russia or any other state,
you can easily gain access to, you know, a pile
of wealth right in the shape of a country, um,
which is into positive It's not like a good lesson

(23:02):
for anyone to take out of this, but like if
if that's a lesson, right, yeah, yeah, no, that's the reality.
Like it's all very nice having a fifty tweet Twitter
threat about why this that and aferred should or shouldn't happen.
But that's just completely removed from real life. I mean
a real life is it's going to be very bad,
very nasty no matter what happens, and you just have
to weigh it. Oh, I don't like natal. Oh I

(23:24):
don't like this. Yeah, I mean either, but I care
about people that die for no reason, you know, Like
I think that's the real issue. Um. I think people
need to stand with the people, you know, and if
that means okay, use the tools that you have, Okay, Like,
oh I don't like natal. We Yeah, but they're going
to give them weapons. Do you think that Ukrainians like
having Russian firearms? Probably not. But they also don't give

(23:45):
a ship because they shoot. It's it's that simple, you know.
End up coming back to the subject of your dak menorate. Um,
if weapons are going to be going over there, and
by God they are, um, I would hope that as

(24:07):
many of them as possible are going into the hands
of people like the Hood's Hood's client, right, yeah, um, yeah,
I mean that is that is a yeah, a lot.
There's definitely this isn't from them telling me, but it's
just from research I've done. There's definitely a discrepancy in
terms of which groups get what weapons. And it's not

(24:29):
based on ideology, but it's definitely based on some serious
buoxy that needs to be sorted out. You know. I
have some some Western volunteers that I know that are
on the front right now, and they're saying, like, for
some reason, you know, one unit that is not an
RPG unit, for example, will have more rockets than the
RPG unit, you know, And it's like, what like, And

(24:49):
that's not because they've used them all. It's it's it's
supply lines are again. It's it's not even corruption often
it's just supply lines are wrecked or whatever. But it
has to be addressed as to be looked at. I mean,
I'm no tactician. I don't know anything of all that
side of things. I'm just based on what you know,
people are telling me, because you know, I like to
talk to them and hear what's happening. Yeah, um, I
think we should move into you know, when I when

(25:10):
I pull up your documentary on YouTube, which is again
for folks at home titled Ukraine's anti fascist football hooligans
fighting the Russian Invasion. The first thing that I see
is this video maybe inappropriate for some users. Um yeah, flash, yeah, well,
and it's we've talked a lot on our various shows
on this network about all of the fascist propaganda that

(25:31):
you can find and not even find on YouTube that
will be like spoon fed. Do you if you wind
up like watching a video game review or something. Um, yeah,
this is something that you've been dealing with. Unpopular front
somebody seems to have like an ax to grind with
you guys. I don't know. Maybe it's just the algorithm,
but I'll be honest, I felt like it was just
the algorithm until this recent one. Right, So so yeah,

(25:53):
like you said, if people want to fight, I mean
the docs called front Line Huligan, but yeah the for
s c O. Um yeah, it's it's Ukraine's anti fascists
fighting Russian invasion. But yeah, the second it was uploaded,
it got age restricted. Now that to me is very odd.
I don't get why there's no gore in it. Um Okay, yeah,
there's violence, but there's a guideline where you can show

(26:14):
violence in if it's relative to report in which obviously
it is because it's an anti fascist football looking firm
fighting Russia. So of course we're going to show what
that looks like. But there's there's no there's no gore. Um,
there's no there's there's just it's just lads hanging out
talking about their lives now they've been tipped upside down
and how they really dislike the far right. Now, to

(26:36):
give you an idea of how messed up this is, um,
there's a real, a real parasite YouTuber is called Danny
Mullen and he has a video on YouTube where him
and his his friend both for them scoundrels, go to
the Mexican border and the whole video is trying to
get with quote like hot Ukrainian refugees. Now, it's the

(26:58):
most disgusting thing you've ever seen. They're praying on young girls,
some of them are very clearly underage. Um. And that
is monetized. That is monetized, and it is even on
the algorithm. I found it because I was watching Ukraine
war stuff and it was put onto my recommended Now,
these are the biggest parasites you've ever seen in your life, um,
And they have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers

(27:20):
and they're making money from content like that that is
not age restricted. There is no censorship thing. There is
no message saying this might be offensive. But a documentary
which is one journalistic covering anti fascists fighting one of
the worst invasions we've seen in Europe, is suddenly deemed
inappropriate and his age restricted on YouTube. Tell me what's

(27:41):
going on there that doesn't seem right to me. So
basically YouTube by doing that as saying we're actually happy
to make money off of people that exploit underage Ukrainian refugees,
but we're not happy for people showing the world a
different side to the war. That to me is madness,
Like it doesn't make any sense to me, you know,
And it's nothing but soft censorship. Some people are tell
me it's not it's not censorship. Of course, it is censorship.

(28:03):
This is the way the world works now, Yeah, Because
I mean a huge chunk of the success or the
visibility of anything that you're putting on YouTube is whether
or not the algorithm is going to like suggest it
to people, even people who have watched you or other
like that, not even talking about like suggesting it to
somebody who's never heard of popular front, but like people
who have watched multiple things that you've done and are

(28:24):
just on YouTube. The thing that would make sense is
for when you put out a new thing, them to
get like YouTube and be like, hey, we know you've
watched the ship, check out this. But that's not going
to happen for a lot of folks because of this
kind of thing, which is yeah fucked up, yeah yeah right.
And it's like it's not just me that like, I mean,
it's other people it's happening as well. And basically what

(28:44):
it is is if we wanted somebody the doc somehow
be allowed to be monetized or not even monetored. I
don't even want the monetization. The whole channel is demonetized.
I just want it to not be a restricted because
that is an algorithm torpedo. And you know, it's like
I would have to red the whole documentary. I say, actually,
sense of myself, my own journalism, make you excuse me,
make the integrity of the doc weaker just to be

(29:06):
able people to see it like this is war, this
is real life. I just it's just really depressing, you know,
and this is something I mean, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook have
all been guilty of degrees of this, but there's this
of all of the things that don't that that are
allowed to spread unchecked on those platforms, they have this
consistent maybe because it's it's easier to algorithmically go after,

(29:28):
but this, this consistent pattern of going after war journalism. Um.
And like your you know what's happening to your documentary
is a piece of this, but like the much scarier pieces,
a tremendous amount of documentation of war crimes in places
like Syria have been deleted um kind of automatically over
the years, which means that like again, evidence of crimes
against humanity has been lost forever because of these kind

(29:51):
of like purges of of war content that um, I
don't think are actually protecting anybody from anything, but are
are perhaps even making things worse. Yeah, of course, and
it and it allows um look Russian propaganda or whatever like,
people are going to seek that out and they're going
to digest it whatever way they can. So then surely

(30:14):
you should say, okay, take the breaks off. Let's you know,
if you care, which I mean YouTube is a media platform,
you would think that they would say, Okay, well, this
is kind of our duty to balance it out, to
allow all the free information. And I'm not even saying,
oh yeah, throttle Russian propaganda. I think people have a
choice to see whatever they want to see, even if
it is completely ridiculous. But the fact that they're they're

(30:35):
censoring the stuff that you you would think is okay
to see because for for for I know, you know
our content that you won't find a lie in that documentary.
You know, we're very honest, very frank with the situation.
We're not white washing fascism in Ukraine. Um, and we're
certainly not putting out Russian propaganda. We're just telling an
interesting journalistic story. So you would think as a media

(30:56):
platform that would be like yeah, right up their street.
But it's not really a media I mean some money
making platform and you know, they just they just survived
for adverts yep, um. And I think that is kind
of where we're gonna. We're gonna leave off for the
day unless you have do you have anything else you
wanted to get into on your documentary, Jake, no, man,
I just I guess the last thing I would say
is I want people to kind of know that there

(31:18):
are many different factions out there. This isn't you know.
I saw some comment being like, oh, you found the
only fascists and anti fascists in Ukraine. It's like, no,
there's there's literally I've been documenting them. There's thousands. There's
so many, you know, and not just like oh anti fascists. Yeah,
we this is what we believe, like people forming units.
There's a whole pipeline of um anti authoritarian activists there,

(31:41):
there's loads and generally like Ukrainians um happy. You know,
they'll they'll take that out they can get. It's not
like Ukrainians are like god damn those anti fascists. Not
they love them. They love them the same way they
love anybody that's defending the country. You know. It's it's
just normal and I think people should really, you know,
if they want to watch our doc as well, like
if they can share it, that would be great because
it's just very it's a struggle to get people to

(32:03):
watch it now because of because if it's been torpedo
on the algorithm, so if they go to YouTube dot
com slash popular front, they'll find it's the first top there.
But yeah, if people can share it. I'll be great,
all right, Well check it out again. The title is
Ukraine's anti fascist football Julians fighting the Russian Invasion on
the Popular Front YouTube channel. We're also going to have
a link in the bio if you are someone who

(32:25):
doesn't like the type things. Yeah, thank you, Jake. All right, everybody,
that's the episode It Could Happen Here as a production
of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

(32:48):
for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone
Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.