December 2, 2024 • 28 mins
Garrison and Robert discuss the fascist rhetoric of the 2024 Trump campaign.
Sources:
https://apnews.com/article/turning-point-election-2024-donald-trump-2b3580134a6b19dff18771c3fdb0f11a
https://www.denver7.com/follow-up/aurora-pauses-closure-plans-of-apartments-at-center-of-venezuelan-gang-claims-after-court-appoints-caretaker
https://sentinelcolorado.com/metro/aurora-police-id-more-armed-men-in-viral-video-no-venezuelan-gang-ties-reported/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-trump-holds-campaign-rally-in-aurora-colorado
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/06/politics/trump-anti-immigrant-comments/index.html
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to it could happen here, a show about things
falling apart. We are back from our little break, and
today I'm joined with Robert Evans to discuss fascism.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I guess, yeah, yeah, I'm here. We're talking fascism. Listeners,
excuse me. I have a sinus infection. So that's why
it sound this way.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh that's why you sound like that.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Uh huh that sucks life.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, well, it might not suck as much as what
I had to do last week, which is uh, watch
this six part documentary about the twenty twenty four Trump
election campaign. God, well, the art of the surge, I
don't know. Overall, it was actually pretty boring. They were
obviously trying to edit it like a succession episode. Oh
my god, really obnoxious. There is some insight into like
(00:54):
the inner workings of the Trump team, like watching him
and his team react to the Kamala Harris, D and
C speech like workshop counter messaging was actually interesting, and
the doc does show kind of Musk's influence steadily ramping
up starting in July. The only time you see Trump
and Vance together is after Trump's ABC debate, when JD
(01:15):
Like preps him for the spin room. That's the only time, Wow,
we see them at a act.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I mean, yeah, that makes sense, Like I wouldn't want
to be in a room with JD Vans more than
I had to be, although the fact that he does
want to be in a room with Musk is baff lit.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, and actually Musk and JD get along quite well
in the interactions that are seeing in the documentary Milania.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Trump never appears once, not a single time. Well, it's
good to know that they've they've managed to put together
a functional thrupple.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Ooh, don't like that. Don't like that at all, first, buddy,
the yikes. My biggest takeaway from this documentary is that
it just showed how much his rallies are a religious
experience for his supporters, deeply deeply religious, especially the Butler
Pennsylvania rallies, where everyone talks about it like they would
(02:07):
like like a genuine like limit experience or religious experience.
Right now, this episode, I actually I want to focus
on the rhetoric employed at these rallies in attempts to
label Trump a fascists. There's been a lot of discussion
on like Trump's authoritarian and dictatorial desires and tendencies and
expressions of those fears, in particular, were not enough to
(02:30):
persuade the majority of voters against Trump, let alone safe
and Republican support towards Harris and we on this show
have not talked much about the escalation of rhetoric used
by Trump and his allies this campaign cycle, with the
Biden administration's horrific border policies and the enabling of Israel's
genocidal actions in Gaza drawing a great deal of our
attention in the past few months, But now I do
(02:52):
want to draw attention to the ethno nationalist framing that
has become all too common, especially with the Democrats just
complete submission to try Trump and the GOP's distinct focus
on immigration as the top issue facing America. So part
of what I'm gonna do here is I've outlined a
few clips and some quotes I'm trying. I tried to
limit the clips because I know no one wants to
(03:13):
hear Trump and these guys talk for too long, but
I will play some.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
And Robert, We've spent.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
A lot of your time thinking about fascism in the
past few years and reading about fascism, so I'm certainly
curious on your thoughts on some of these clips and quotes,
as we'll kind of go through like three specific rallies,
mostly great and outline what type of rhetoric they are
using and what it kind of points to historically. Now,
one of the reoccurring phrases at Trump rallies this cycle
(03:41):
was that the United States has become an occupied territory.
Here's Trump invoking that language at a rally in Atlanta
a week before the election.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
But it will soon be an occupied country no longer.
November fifth, twenty twenty four, will be Liberation Day in America,
and during day one, I will launch the largest deportation
program in American history. We're going to get these criminals out.
(04:11):
I will rescue every city in town that has been
invaded and conquered.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
These towns have been conquered, you know, they have been invaded.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
And can you imagine, just as though a foreign enemy
was invading, a military was invading.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Okay, I will rescue every city in town that has
been invaded and.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Conquered, conquered.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, just as though an enemy, a foreign enemy was invading.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah. I mean that's I don't even know what to
say about that. It's like that's textbook fascist shit, right, Like,
I mean, among other things, ramping everyone up to justify,
you know, at least the potential for violence against migrants.
You know, it's self defense, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Now, I like to focus first on the Medison Square
Garden rally. Certainly the put floating island of garbage comments
from the roast comedian got a lot of media attention,
but what got less coverage was the much more historically
worrying statements made by those within Trump's circle. Let's start
with Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
America is for Americans and Americans only.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So, Robert, does that phrase remind you of any other
phrases that have been used over time?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, I mean like one people, one vulc one Reich, right,
I guess yeah, I mean again, Like I don't even
know what to say at this point, right, Like, we're
it's so obvious. When I started in the warning people
about fascism game, you had to like explain a lot
of history and then sort of like walk in, here's
how you know what this is a sign post? I mean,
(05:46):
when someone doesn't eighty eight this is what it means
or whatever, And we're so far past that like.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, and and specifically this one invokes the Germany is
for the Germans, which is a phrase that is banned
in Germany now due to its use during.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Not the era.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
That gives us something to look forward to now.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
In a rant advocating for election denial in the case
of Trump losing the election, Tucker Carlson referred to Kamala
Harris as a Samoan Malaysian low IQ. This is just
kind of baffling old school racism. Yeah, I honestly didn't
expect this type of thing to have such a resurgence
(06:25):
the past year.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
More esoteric than I expected.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it's frankly odd now that Tucker also spoke about
how the elites are trying to replace the population and
the culture and customs of this country, just clearly invoking
the white nationalists, a great replacement ideology that he kind
of previously spread on his Fox show.
Speaker 7 (06:46):
In a country that has been taken over by a
leadership class that actually despises them and their values and
their history and their culture and their customs, really hates
them to the point that it's trying to replace them.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Very clear stuff. And Don Junior invoked very similar rhetoric,
saying that the government no longer puts Americans first and
that the Democratic Party would rather quote replace Americans with
people who will be reliable voters on Club Wow. And again,
this is types of stuff that we talked about in
like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. It's like like Laurens Southern
(07:21):
YouTube videos.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And like, if there's one thing that dims are bad at,
it's getting reliable voters.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, Like, this is the type of stuff that was
so that was much more niche. And then you had
a few like four chan guys start like doing a
writing on Tucker's show, and now it's being used at
a disappoint the president's rallies.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah. Now, when Trump finally.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Took the stage, he mirrored Tucker's Kamala Harris IQ comments,
saying everyone knows she's a very low IQ individual. Like usual,
he called the press the enemy of the people, uh huh,
But he went on to describe the true enemy masterminding
the fall of America, the quote radical left machine that
has taken control of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
It's just this a morphous group of people, but they're
smart and they're vicious, and we have to defeat them.
And when I say the enemy from within, the other
side goes crazy, becomes a sound the hole. How can
he say, no, they've done very bad things to this country.
They are indeed the enemy from within.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I do find interesting the way he describes them
as like a morphous Yeah, it's not like a distinct sect.
It's not like a fuss of people. It's this like
a MorphOS almost like like a like like ethereal force
that can like inhabit people.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Well, you need that because, that, among other things, allows
you to refocus the lens on anyone. Yeah, right, Like
you need the opportunity to keep shifting because eventually, if
you're just actually focusing on a real, discreete group of
human beings, you get rid of those people, you throw
them in prison or whatever, and then you don't have
(09:02):
an enemy anymore. And you always need that.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
And do you know what we need right.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Now, Robert Products and Services.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, we do need to go on a quick break,
and then I come back to talk about Dluth, Georgia.
So not good, great, all right, we are back. I'm
gonna now turn to a Turning Point action event on
(09:32):
October twenty third in Dluth, Georgia, which I actually just
visited for the first time. I went ice skating in Duluth, Georgia,
and to kind of get a sense of what this town.
It's not even really a suburb of Atlanta, it's it's
so far north. As I was, ice is skating there,
I'm pretty sure like a Christian cult showed up and
they had all their members also ice skated, because they're
(09:52):
all wearing like the same outfits. They hold like very
specific like headscarves. A few of like the more like
youth pastory types had like like you know, like christ
As King Taype puddies. But it definitely wasn't like a
regular church it was. It was more of some kind
of like evangelical like cultish formation based on like the
uniform clothing. So that's deLuce Georgia.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Now, Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Gave a fifteen minute speech which he closed with a
spiritual appeal, saying, quote, you have a biblical obligation to
engage in this election and to fight evil. The Democratic
Party supports everything God hates unquote. Kirk then called this
election a quote unquote spiritual battle, and finally he said,
(10:39):
quote this is a Christian state. I want to see
that continue. So none of this is like new right.
This is kind of at this point bog standard Christian nationalism.
But this is a rally of about ten thousand people.
It's not an official Trump rally. It is a turning
point action rally that Trump did speak at. But I
like to hone in once again on Tucker Carlson's comments. Now,
(11:02):
he called this the first speech he's ever given at
a political rally. Now, both me and you saw Tucker
speak at the RNC. I guess he kind of views
the R and C is a little bit different from
like a standard like kind of more like a campaign
rally type event. But Tucker called Trump a triumph of
the human spirit, christ a triumph of the will. You
(11:23):
could say, yeah, yes, like what's another word for the
human spirit. But now I'm going to play Actually, this
is the longest clip we have, just because it's so fascinating,
and I have a lot that kind have written on
this already. I'm just going to play this clip.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
There has to be a point at which Dad comes home. Yeah,
that's right, Dad comes home and he's pefted.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Dad is pissed.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
He's not vengeful.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
He loves his children, disobedient as they may be. He
loves them because there's children, they live in his house,
but he's very disappointed in their behavior and he's gonna
have to let them know.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
He's gonna have to get.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
To your room right now and think about what you did.
And when dad gets home, you know what he says.
You've been a bad girl. You've been a bad little girl,
and you're getting a vigorous spanking right now. And no,
it's not gonna hurt me more than it hurts you.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
No, it's not. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
That's gonna hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
And you earn this.
Speaker 7 (12:45):
You're getting a vigorous spanking because.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You've been a bad girl. Well that's just real sick
and deranged. I mean you can tell he really gets
off on spanking little girls.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I mean, like beyond like Tucker's like shown depravity here,
I also just find like the willingness of the audience
just to eat this stuff up and like really enjoy
it to like similarly be be like both like fascinating
and like a show of like a certain level of
a depravement.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well it's this, it's leaning into what has always been
the core of like the most militant conservatism, which is
the like strict Christian conservative parents rights people sure be
like my children are my property, and also the right
way to parent is like a dictator.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I mean, this is like the most like openly Freudian
display of American fascism that I've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, It's amazing, this.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Idea of like a harsh father whose love is replaced
with fearful authority. It's really important that like America is
framed as a bad girl. There's this like feminizing of them, right,
America is not like a bad little boy. A bad
Girl's like really important. Carlson's almost invoking like an incestuous
like domination. Yeah, it's it's quite sick, and like I
(14:10):
had to actually like like look up stuff on this
because I'm like, I know, Freud and a few others
have like written about this type of thing before, and
specifically Adorno has written about this in an essay called
Freudian Theory and the Pattern of Fascist Propaganda that I'd
like to read just a few brief quotes.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
From Oh I love some Adorno, Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Quote There is either no mention of love whatsoever between members,
or it's expressed only in a sublimated and indirect way
through the mediation of some religious image. In the love
of whom the members unite and who's all embracing love
they're supposed to imitate in their attitude towards each other.
It seems significant that in today's society, with its artificially
(14:47):
integrated fascist masses, reference to love is almost completely excluded.
Hitler shunned the traditional role of the loving father and
replaced it entirely by the negative one of threatening authority.
I'm going to pivot to Freud here, specifically his essay
on group behavior and how individuals regressed become a part
(15:07):
of masses. He writes about how a leader of a
cult can exploit psychological shortcuts in its followers to embody
this like group ideal that governs their ego as a
substitution quote, the leader of the group is the dreaded
primal father. The group still wishes to be governed by
unrestricted force. It has an extreme passion for authority, It
(15:31):
has a thirst for obedience. The primal father is the
group ideal. This is like so displayed on what Tucker
is doing. Like this is just exactly what it is.
I mean, it reminds me of the other quote about
how people seek out salvation in subjugation. And I'll leave
just one more quote from Adorno here.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Fascist agitation is centered in the idea of the leader,
no matter whether he actually leads or is only the
mandatory of group interests, because only the psychological image of
the leader is apt to reanimate the idea of the
all powerful and threatening primal father. The formation of the
imagery of an omnipotent and unbridled father figure, by far
(16:11):
transcending the individual father and therefore apt to be enlargened
into a group ego, is the only way to promulgate
the passive masochistic attitude to whoms one's will has to
be surrendered, an attitude required of the fascist follower the
more his political behavior becomes irreconcilable with his own rational
interests as a private person, as well as those of
(16:34):
the group or class to which he actually belongs. The
follower's reawakened irrationality is therefore quite rational from the leader's
point of view. It necessarily has to be a conviction
which is not based on perception and reasoning, but on
an erotic tie. I'm sure someone more skilled than me
could write like a whole dissertation just on Tucker's speech here,
(16:57):
because it invokes so many of these ideas, and like
without trying to this is always like subconscious on their part,
like they're pulling on these things like specifically, like like
the passive masochistic attitude. It's like their submission to Trump
is like this deep masochistic urge.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There's another thing in there that I think is important,
especially because I'm hearing a lot of people talking about like, well,
once Trump pushes through his tariffs or does this or
does that, the horrible negative consequences of this will like
absolutely destroy the GOP right. That'll finally bring them down
to me let them, you know. No. And one of
the things that Dorno says there is that like the
(17:37):
leader doesn't even need to be pro and that's an
underdiscussed aspect of psychology and fascist states. One of the
phenomenons within Nazi Germany was, you know, there were a
number of Nazi policies, Hitler's policies that had serious negative
effects on people in Germany, and one of the most
common phrases that you would hear from them was if
(17:59):
only hit new right, you know, you usually deployed when
like you were dealing with a government agency that was
headed by just like an absolute criminal that you know,
Hitler had appointed that Like, Oh, well, Hitler doesn't know
that the Gestapo are doing this, right, you know, he
would stop this, he'd put a stop to this if
he knew, he wouldn't let this happen, Right, That's what
That's what Trump's believers. I don't know if that's what
(18:21):
the American people writ large may never buy into Trump
the way that the Germans bought into Hitler, but Trump's
supporters are certainly already there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And this is something that Tucker saw in the audience
when he started on this rant. He started repeating certain
phrases because it got such a good reaction from the crowd.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Like this wasn't like planned.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It was it was him reading the crowd and realizing, oh,
they really like this. I'm going to keep doing it
and specifically this. This is also how he closed his speech.
And I don't believe this was this was planned. I
believe this was because of the reaction that the crowd
had previously. I'm going to play the very end of
his speech where he basically endorses like a coup. If
Harris actually wins.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
If they do all of that, they need to lose.
And at the end of all of it, when they
tell you they've won, no, you can look them straight
in the face and say I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Dad's home and he's pissed.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They love it.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, of course, of course, all they have ever wanted
is to be forced to be right, you know, and
to the extent that reality disagrees with their beliefs, which
it usually does, to be able to beat reality into
place and at least continue to trick themselves until they die, right, Like,
(19:43):
that's all the fascists I know, you know, the older people,
many of whom raised me. That's what it really was
about for them, was never having to acknowledge the mistakes
that they had made, the things that they had supported
that didn't work out. Like it was a rage at
the peopleeople who insisted on pointing out, Hey, you said
this was going to happen, and the opposite happened. So
(20:05):
that promise of like, even if they win, Dad's going
to come home and beat them into submission is deeply attractive, I.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Mean, and even if it hurts your own like self interests,
your only class interests, right, And it's like replacing all
of the anguish you have as like an individual person
and like replacing your own ego with the embodiment of
this group ideal that is just someone else. Like this
is why so many people have like dedicated their lives
to Trump. Like you look at all these like like
boomers and even some like gen X people at these
(20:38):
Trump rallies who like Trump has like become like their personality.
He's fully occupied their life. And yeah, like that's it's
similar into the way that like occult leader has like
how Freud wrote about it. Freud wrote all that stuff
like in the nineteen twenties before before like Hitler really
rose to power, but he could like sense what was
like coming in Germany. He could he could feel. Yeah,
(21:01):
and what I'm gonna feel right now is the products
and services that support this podcast.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Huzzah, All right, we are back.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I like to close by talking about Aurora, Colorado. Now,
a tactic the Trump campaign consistently used this past year
is to hone in on particular small communities as being
taken over by immigrants who they would call like criminal migrants.
The best known example of this is what happened in Springfield, Ohio,
but this also happened in the Denver suburb Aurora, Colorado,
(21:42):
after a video went viral showing men walking through an
apartment complex holding firearms. A false claim then spread that
a Venezuelan gang was forcibly taking over entire buildings in
this city. At a Trump rally in Aurora on October eleventh,
massive banners on both sides of the stage read Deport
illegals now and end Migrant crime. On either side of
(22:07):
the podium there were large mugshots of Latino men with
text that reads occupied America. Steven Miller, now like Chief
Advisor for Immigration Policy, takes the stage and says that
the patriots gathered at this event can quote end the
invasion and end the occupation by voting for Trump.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Look at all these photos around me. Are these the
kids you grew up with? Are these the neighbors you
were raised with? Are these the neighbors that you want
in your city? No, these are the criminal migrants the
Kamala Harris brought into your community.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Again, It's all pretty brazen stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yep. Yeah, I mean we call that brazen. But like
that's just mainstream now. Yes, Like the fight to look
at migrants as human beings and have any kind of
samee justice you know for undocumented migrants in this country
has been completely botched.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's something about like the suburban neighborhood idea that is
more like disturbing to me, like pointing to actual pictures
of people being Are these the kids you grew up with?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And like the fight to like preserve this nostalgic idea
of like your childhood neighborhood, it's just so dark to
me now. Invoking great replacement framing, Miller says that Kamala
Harris was bringing these immigrants into your communities and that
they are now taking over America.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
We don't need in this country homeless migrants, criminal migrants.
We don't need migrants consuming and depleting our public resources,
overwhelming our public schools, overwhelming our hospitals, taking over our
apartment buildings, and yes, murdering innocent Americans. You have a
right to love the community you grew up in. You
(23:58):
have a right to love your neighbors as they are.
You have a right to want a country that is of, by,
and for Americans and only.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Americans again with that, like you have a right to
love the community you grew up in, and then of
course like Americans for Americans, and Miller later closed his
speech by yelling, America will be reclaimed for Americans.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh gosh, yep. I mean, look, these people suffered no
consequences for what they did the last time, so they're
going to keep pushing further. It's done nothing but work
for them. No one has ever taught them any lesson that, like, hey,
you've gone too far and now there are going to
be negative consequences. That hasn't happened. So yeah, they're just
going to keep getting more and more masked off. This
(24:50):
is where they've wanted to be, Miller, certainly from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And they've used these past four years as prep work
to build them to this point. Of course, none of
what they're saying is like real in terms of like,
you know, buildings being taken over the famously pro Harris
liberal extremist group. The Aurora Police Department have continued to
clarify that no apartment buildings have been taken over by
any gangs, nor have tenants been paying gang members rent money.
(25:17):
According to the police, none of the armed men seen
in that viral video who have all been since identified
or arrested. None of them have any ties to Venezuelan
gangs or organized crime. What happened was slum lords spread
a false story about their apartment complex being taken over
by a gang as a way to get out of
doing repairs on the property, saying it was too dangerous
(25:38):
to enter the premises. Jesus, it was all like a
fucking scam by slum lords so that they wouldn't have
to fix their own apartment building. Denver seven found code
enforcement and inspection records dating back to twenty twenty that
show numerous violations prior to the influx of Venezuelan immigrants
in the Denver metro area. The complex is now under
new care, but a similar false tale of an apartment
(25:59):
building in Chicago being taken over by immigrant gangs went
viral in September due to the efforts of libs of
TikTok and Elon Musk, with libs of TikTok saying quote,
first they did this in Aurora, Colorado, and now Chicago,
which city will be next? This invasion happened on Kamala's
watch unquote. The last thing I will mention here is
(26:21):
all of the blood comments that Trump has been making
the past year. In interview last year, Trump said that
immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country. It's so bad,
and people are coming in with disease, people are coming
in with every possible thing that you could have unquote.
This clearly invokes like blood framing used by Hitler and Nazis,
(26:42):
and like eugenics in general. Yeah, and this is rhetoric
that he's continuing to use for the present. In an
interview last month, Trump say that immigrants are naturally murderers
because quote, it's in their genes. We've got a lot
of bad genes in our country right now.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I mean a lot of what this comes down to
is that after World War Two, we really needed to
execute a lot more people, you know, like you could
have quashed the eugenics movement. We needed to go after
a lot of people in the US. There were a
lot of American fascists involved in eugenics, and after Treblinka
and Auschwitz, we really just should have cleaned house, and
(27:20):
instead we let all of these people get into think tanks.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm going to close with a quote from the Atlantic
here quote. When Trump was swaying to music at a
surreal rally, he did so in front of a huge slogan,
trump was right about everything. This is the language borrow
directly from Mussolini, the Italian fascist. Soon after the rally,
the scholar Ruth ben Gate posted a photograph of a
building in Mussolini's Italy displaying the slogan Mussolini is always right.
(27:50):
Uh huh, And that reminded me of what you said
earlier about how these people just always wanted to be right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah. Yeah, that's the that's the core of it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Similarly, like people can surrender their own individual ego and
substitute it with this image of Trump right, Trump was
right about everything.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Anyway, this is kind of what I wanted to put together,
just focusing on on all of these things, because I mean,
as much as you know, foreign policy in America is
always kind of fucked. Domestic policy, I think, does often
get changed based on who is in office. And this
is what we're going to be dealing with these four years,
especially with Miller taking a larger and larger role inside
the White House.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We sure are, so everybody, buckle up.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
It could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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Cool media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to it could happen here, a show about things
falling apart. We are back from our little break, and
today I'm joined with Robert Evans to discuss fascism.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I guess, yeah, yeah, I'm here. We're talking fascism. Listeners,
excuse me. I have a sinus infection. So that's why
it sound this way.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh that's why you sound like that.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Uh huh that sucks life.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, well, it might not suck as much as what
I had to do last week, which is uh, watch
this six part documentary about the twenty twenty four Trump
election campaign. God, well, the art of the surge, I
don't know. Overall, it was actually pretty boring. They were
obviously trying to edit it like a succession episode. Oh
my god, really obnoxious. There is some insight into like
(00:54):
the inner workings of the Trump team, like watching him
and his team react to the Kamala Harris, D and
C speech like workshop counter messaging was actually interesting, and
the doc does show kind of Musk's influence steadily ramping
up starting in July. The only time you see Trump
and Vance together is after Trump's ABC debate, when JD
(01:15):
Like preps him for the spin room. That's the only time, Wow,
we see them at a act.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I mean, yeah, that makes sense, Like I wouldn't want
to be in a room with JD Vans more than
I had to be, although the fact that he does
want to be in a room with Musk is baff lit.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, and actually Musk and JD get along quite well
in the interactions that are seeing in the documentary Milania.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Trump never appears once, not a single time. Well, it's
good to know that they've they've managed to put together
a functional thrupple.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Ooh, don't like that. Don't like that at all, first, buddy,
the yikes. My biggest takeaway from this documentary is that
it just showed how much his rallies are a religious
experience for his supporters, deeply deeply religious, especially the Butler
Pennsylvania rallies, where everyone talks about it like they would
(02:07):
like like a genuine like limit experience or religious experience.
Right now, this episode, I actually I want to focus
on the rhetoric employed at these rallies in attempts to
label Trump a fascists. There's been a lot of discussion
on like Trump's authoritarian and dictatorial desires and tendencies and
expressions of those fears, in particular, were not enough to
(02:30):
persuade the majority of voters against Trump, let alone safe
and Republican support towards Harris and we on this show
have not talked much about the escalation of rhetoric used
by Trump and his allies this campaign cycle, with the
Biden administration's horrific border policies and the enabling of Israel's
genocidal actions in Gaza drawing a great deal of our
attention in the past few months, But now I do
(02:52):
want to draw attention to the ethno nationalist framing that
has become all too common, especially with the Democrats just
complete submission to try Trump and the GOP's distinct focus
on immigration as the top issue facing America. So part
of what I'm gonna do here is I've outlined a
few clips and some quotes I'm trying. I tried to
limit the clips because I know no one wants to
(03:13):
hear Trump and these guys talk for too long, but
I will play some.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
And Robert, We've spent.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
A lot of your time thinking about fascism in the
past few years and reading about fascism, so I'm certainly
curious on your thoughts on some of these clips and quotes,
as we'll kind of go through like three specific rallies,
mostly great and outline what type of rhetoric they are
using and what it kind of points to historically. Now,
one of the reoccurring phrases at Trump rallies this cycle
(03:41):
was that the United States has become an occupied territory.
Here's Trump invoking that language at a rally in Atlanta
a week before the election.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
But it will soon be an occupied country no longer.
November fifth, twenty twenty four, will be Liberation Day in America,
and during day one, I will launch the largest deportation
program in American history. We're going to get these criminals out.
(04:11):
I will rescue every city in town that has been
invaded and conquered.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
These towns have been conquered, you know, they have been invaded.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
And can you imagine, just as though a foreign enemy
was invading, a military was invading.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Okay, I will rescue every city in town that has
been invaded and.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Conquered, conquered.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, just as though an enemy, a foreign enemy was invading.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah. I mean that's I don't even know what to
say about that. It's like that's textbook fascist shit, right, Like,
I mean, among other things, ramping everyone up to justify,
you know, at least the potential for violence against migrants.
You know, it's self defense, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Now, I like to focus first on the Medison Square
Garden rally. Certainly the put floating island of garbage comments
from the roast comedian got a lot of media attention,
but what got less coverage was the much more historically
worrying statements made by those within Trump's circle. Let's start
with Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
America is for Americans and Americans only.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So, Robert, does that phrase remind you of any other
phrases that have been used over time?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, I mean like one people, one vulc one Reich, right,
I guess yeah, I mean again, Like I don't even
know what to say at this point, right, Like, we're
it's so obvious. When I started in the warning people
about fascism game, you had to like explain a lot
of history and then sort of like walk in, here's
how you know what this is a sign post? I mean,
(05:46):
when someone doesn't eighty eight this is what it means
or whatever, And we're so far past that like.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, and and specifically this one invokes the Germany is
for the Germans, which is a phrase that is banned
in Germany now due to its use during.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Not the era.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
That gives us something to look forward to now.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
In a rant advocating for election denial in the case
of Trump losing the election, Tucker Carlson referred to Kamala
Harris as a Samoan Malaysian low IQ. This is just
kind of baffling old school racism. Yeah, I honestly didn't
expect this type of thing to have such a resurgence
(06:25):
the past year.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
More esoteric than I expected.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it's frankly odd now that Tucker also spoke about
how the elites are trying to replace the population and
the culture and customs of this country, just clearly invoking
the white nationalists, a great replacement ideology that he kind
of previously spread on his Fox show.
Speaker 7 (06:46):
In a country that has been taken over by a
leadership class that actually despises them and their values and
their history and their culture and their customs, really hates
them to the point that it's trying to replace them.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Very clear stuff. And Don Junior invoked very similar rhetoric,
saying that the government no longer puts Americans first and
that the Democratic Party would rather quote replace Americans with
people who will be reliable voters on Club Wow. And again,
this is types of stuff that we talked about in
like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. It's like like Laurens Southern
(07:21):
YouTube videos.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And like, if there's one thing that dims are bad at,
it's getting reliable voters.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yes, Like, this is the type of stuff that was
so that was much more niche. And then you had
a few like four chan guys start like doing a
writing on Tucker's show, and now it's being used at
a disappoint the president's rallies.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah. Now, when Trump finally.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Took the stage, he mirrored Tucker's Kamala Harris IQ comments,
saying everyone knows she's a very low IQ individual. Like usual,
he called the press the enemy of the people, uh huh,
But he went on to describe the true enemy masterminding
the fall of America, the quote radical left machine that
has taken control of the Democratic Party.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
It's just this a morphous group of people, but they're
smart and they're vicious, and we have to defeat them.
And when I say the enemy from within, the other
side goes crazy, becomes a sound the hole. How can
he say, no, they've done very bad things to this country.
They are indeed the enemy from within.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I do find interesting the way he describes them
as like a morphous Yeah, it's not like a distinct sect.
It's not like a fuss of people. It's this like
a MorphOS almost like like a like like ethereal force
that can like inhabit people.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Well, you need that because, that, among other things, allows
you to refocus the lens on anyone. Yeah, right, Like
you need the opportunity to keep shifting because eventually, if
you're just actually focusing on a real, discreete group of
human beings, you get rid of those people, you throw
them in prison or whatever, and then you don't have
(09:02):
an enemy anymore. And you always need that.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
And do you know what we need right.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Now, Robert Products and Services.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, we do need to go on a quick break,
and then I come back to talk about Dluth, Georgia.
So not good, great, all right, we are back. I'm
gonna now turn to a Turning Point action event on
(09:32):
October twenty third in Dluth, Georgia, which I actually just
visited for the first time. I went ice skating in Duluth, Georgia,
and to kind of get a sense of what this town.
It's not even really a suburb of Atlanta, it's it's
so far north. As I was, ice is skating there,
I'm pretty sure like a Christian cult showed up and
they had all their members also ice skated, because they're
(09:52):
all wearing like the same outfits. They hold like very
specific like headscarves. A few of like the more like
youth pastory types had like like you know, like christ
As King Taype puddies. But it definitely wasn't like a
regular church it was. It was more of some kind
of like evangelical like cultish formation based on like the
uniform clothing. So that's deLuce Georgia.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Now, Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Gave a fifteen minute speech which he closed with a
spiritual appeal, saying, quote, you have a biblical obligation to
engage in this election and to fight evil. The Democratic
Party supports everything God hates unquote. Kirk then called this
election a quote unquote spiritual battle, and finally he said,
(10:39):
quote this is a Christian state. I want to see
that continue. So none of this is like new right.
This is kind of at this point bog standard Christian nationalism.
But this is a rally of about ten thousand people.
It's not an official Trump rally. It is a turning
point action rally that Trump did speak at. But I
like to hone in once again on Tucker Carlson's comments. Now,
(11:02):
he called this the first speech he's ever given at
a political rally. Now, both me and you saw Tucker
speak at the RNC. I guess he kind of views
the R and C is a little bit different from
like a standard like kind of more like a campaign
rally type event. But Tucker called Trump a triumph of
the human spirit, christ a triumph of the will. You
(11:23):
could say, yeah, yes, like what's another word for the
human spirit. But now I'm going to play Actually, this
is the longest clip we have, just because it's so fascinating,
and I have a lot that kind have written on
this already. I'm just going to play this clip.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
There has to be a point at which Dad comes home. Yeah,
that's right, Dad comes home and he's pefted.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Dad is pissed.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
He's not vengeful.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
He loves his children, disobedient as they may be. He
loves them because there's children, they live in his house,
but he's very disappointed in their behavior and he's gonna
have to let them know.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
He's gonna have to get.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
To your room right now and think about what you did.
And when dad gets home, you know what he says.
You've been a bad girl. You've been a bad little girl,
and you're getting a vigorous spanking right now. And no,
it's not gonna hurt me more than it hurts you.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
No, it's not. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
That's gonna hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
And you earn this.
Speaker 7 (12:45):
You're getting a vigorous spanking because.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You've been a bad girl. Well that's just real sick
and deranged. I mean you can tell he really gets
off on spanking little girls.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I mean, like beyond like Tucker's like shown depravity here,
I also just find like the willingness of the audience
just to eat this stuff up and like really enjoy
it to like similarly be be like both like fascinating
and like a show of like a certain level of
a depravement.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well it's this, it's leaning into what has always been
the core of like the most militant conservatism, which is
the like strict Christian conservative parents rights people sure be
like my children are my property, and also the right
way to parent is like a dictator.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I mean, this is like the most like openly Freudian
display of American fascism that I've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, It's amazing, this.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Idea of like a harsh father whose love is replaced
with fearful authority. It's really important that like America is
framed as a bad girl. There's this like feminizing of them, right,
America is not like a bad little boy. A bad
Girl's like really important. Carlson's almost invoking like an incestuous
like domination. Yeah, it's it's quite sick, and like I
(14:10):
had to actually like like look up stuff on this
because I'm like, I know, Freud and a few others
have like written about this type of thing before, and
specifically Adorno has written about this in an essay called
Freudian Theory and the Pattern of Fascist Propaganda that I'd
like to read just a few brief quotes.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
From Oh I love some Adorno, Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Quote There is either no mention of love whatsoever between members,
or it's expressed only in a sublimated and indirect way
through the mediation of some religious image. In the love
of whom the members unite and who's all embracing love
they're supposed to imitate in their attitude towards each other.
It seems significant that in today's society, with its artificially
(14:47):
integrated fascist masses, reference to love is almost completely excluded.
Hitler shunned the traditional role of the loving father and
replaced it entirely by the negative one of threatening authority.
I'm going to pivot to Freud here, specifically his essay
on group behavior and how individuals regressed become a part
(15:07):
of masses. He writes about how a leader of a
cult can exploit psychological shortcuts in its followers to embody
this like group ideal that governs their ego as a
substitution quote, the leader of the group is the dreaded
primal father. The group still wishes to be governed by
unrestricted force. It has an extreme passion for authority, It
(15:31):
has a thirst for obedience. The primal father is the
group ideal. This is like so displayed on what Tucker
is doing. Like this is just exactly what it is.
I mean, it reminds me of the other quote about
how people seek out salvation in subjugation. And I'll leave
just one more quote from Adorno here.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Fascist agitation is centered in the idea of the leader,
no matter whether he actually leads or is only the
mandatory of group interests, because only the psychological image of
the leader is apt to reanimate the idea of the
all powerful and threatening primal father. The formation of the
imagery of an omnipotent and unbridled father figure, by far
(16:11):
transcending the individual father and therefore apt to be enlargened
into a group ego, is the only way to promulgate
the passive masochistic attitude to whoms one's will has to
be surrendered, an attitude required of the fascist follower the
more his political behavior becomes irreconcilable with his own rational
interests as a private person, as well as those of
(16:34):
the group or class to which he actually belongs. The
follower's reawakened irrationality is therefore quite rational from the leader's
point of view. It necessarily has to be a conviction
which is not based on perception and reasoning, but on
an erotic tie. I'm sure someone more skilled than me
could write like a whole dissertation just on Tucker's speech here,
(16:57):
because it invokes so many of these ideas, and like
without trying to this is always like subconscious on their part,
like they're pulling on these things like specifically, like like
the passive masochistic attitude. It's like their submission to Trump
is like this deep masochistic urge.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There's another thing in there that I think is important,
especially because I'm hearing a lot of people talking about like, well,
once Trump pushes through his tariffs or does this or
does that, the horrible negative consequences of this will like
absolutely destroy the GOP right. That'll finally bring them down
to me let them, you know. No. And one of
the things that Dorno says there is that like the
(17:37):
leader doesn't even need to be pro and that's an
underdiscussed aspect of psychology and fascist states. One of the
phenomenons within Nazi Germany was, you know, there were a
number of Nazi policies, Hitler's policies that had serious negative
effects on people in Germany, and one of the most
common phrases that you would hear from them was if
(17:59):
only hit new right, you know, you usually deployed when
like you were dealing with a government agency that was
headed by just like an absolute criminal that you know,
Hitler had appointed that Like, Oh, well, Hitler doesn't know
that the Gestapo are doing this, right, you know, he
would stop this, he'd put a stop to this if
he knew, he wouldn't let this happen, Right, That's what
That's what Trump's believers. I don't know if that's what
(18:21):
the American people writ large may never buy into Trump
the way that the Germans bought into Hitler, but Trump's
supporters are certainly already there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And this is something that Tucker saw in the audience
when he started on this rant. He started repeating certain
phrases because it got such a good reaction from the crowd.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Like this wasn't like planned.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It was it was him reading the crowd and realizing, oh,
they really like this. I'm going to keep doing it
and specifically this. This is also how he closed his speech.
And I don't believe this was this was planned. I
believe this was because of the reaction that the crowd
had previously. I'm going to play the very end of
his speech where he basically endorses like a coup. If
Harris actually wins.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
If they do all of that, they need to lose.
And at the end of all of it, when they
tell you they've won, no, you can look them straight
in the face and say I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Dad's home and he's pissed.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
They love it.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, of course, of course, all they have ever wanted
is to be forced to be right, you know, and
to the extent that reality disagrees with their beliefs, which
it usually does, to be able to beat reality into
place and at least continue to trick themselves until they die, right, Like,
(19:43):
that's all the fascists I know, you know, the older people,
many of whom raised me. That's what it really was
about for them, was never having to acknowledge the mistakes
that they had made, the things that they had supported
that didn't work out. Like it was a rage at
the peopleeople who insisted on pointing out, Hey, you said
this was going to happen, and the opposite happened. So
(20:05):
that promise of like, even if they win, Dad's going
to come home and beat them into submission is deeply attractive, I.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Mean, and even if it hurts your own like self interests,
your only class interests, right, And it's like replacing all
of the anguish you have as like an individual person
and like replacing your own ego with the embodiment of
this group ideal that is just someone else. Like this
is why so many people have like dedicated their lives
to Trump. Like you look at all these like like
boomers and even some like gen X people at these
(20:38):
Trump rallies who like Trump has like become like their personality.
He's fully occupied their life. And yeah, like that's it's
similar into the way that like occult leader has like
how Freud wrote about it. Freud wrote all that stuff
like in the nineteen twenties before before like Hitler really
rose to power, but he could like sense what was
like coming in Germany. He could he could feel. Yeah,
(21:01):
and what I'm gonna feel right now is the products
and services that support this podcast.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Huzzah, All right, we are back.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I like to close by talking about Aurora, Colorado. Now,
a tactic the Trump campaign consistently used this past year
is to hone in on particular small communities as being
taken over by immigrants who they would call like criminal migrants.
The best known example of this is what happened in Springfield, Ohio,
but this also happened in the Denver suburb Aurora, Colorado,
(21:42):
after a video went viral showing men walking through an
apartment complex holding firearms. A false claim then spread that
a Venezuelan gang was forcibly taking over entire buildings in
this city. At a Trump rally in Aurora on October eleventh,
massive banners on both sides of the stage read Deport
illegals now and end Migrant crime. On either side of
(22:07):
the podium there were large mugshots of Latino men with
text that reads occupied America. Steven Miller, now like Chief
Advisor for Immigration Policy, takes the stage and says that
the patriots gathered at this event can quote end the
invasion and end the occupation by voting for Trump.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Look at all these photos around me. Are these the
kids you grew up with? Are these the neighbors you
were raised with? Are these the neighbors that you want
in your city? No, these are the criminal migrants the
Kamala Harris brought into your community.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Again, It's all pretty brazen stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yep. Yeah, I mean we call that brazen. But like
that's just mainstream now. Yes, Like the fight to look
at migrants as human beings and have any kind of
samee justice you know for undocumented migrants in this country
has been completely botched.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's something about like the suburban neighborhood idea that is
more like disturbing to me, like pointing to actual pictures
of people being Are these the kids you grew up with?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And like the fight to like preserve this nostalgic idea
of like your childhood neighborhood, it's just so dark to
me now. Invoking great replacement framing, Miller says that Kamala
Harris was bringing these immigrants into your communities and that
they are now taking over America.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
We don't need in this country homeless migrants, criminal migrants.
We don't need migrants consuming and depleting our public resources,
overwhelming our public schools, overwhelming our hospitals, taking over our
apartment buildings, and yes, murdering innocent Americans. You have a
right to love the community you grew up in. You
(23:58):
have a right to love your neighbors as they are.
You have a right to want a country that is of, by,
and for Americans and only.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Americans again with that, like you have a right to
love the community you grew up in, and then of
course like Americans for Americans, and Miller later closed his
speech by yelling, America will be reclaimed for Americans.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh gosh, yep. I mean, look, these people suffered no
consequences for what they did the last time, so they're
going to keep pushing further. It's done nothing but work
for them. No one has ever taught them any lesson that, like, hey,
you've gone too far and now there are going to
be negative consequences. That hasn't happened. So yeah, they're just
going to keep getting more and more masked off. This
(24:50):
is where they've wanted to be, Miller, certainly from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And they've used these past four years as prep work
to build them to this point. Of course, none of
what they're saying is like real in terms of like,
you know, buildings being taken over the famously pro Harris
liberal extremist group. The Aurora Police Department have continued to
clarify that no apartment buildings have been taken over by
any gangs, nor have tenants been paying gang members rent money.
(25:17):
According to the police, none of the armed men seen
in that viral video who have all been since identified
or arrested. None of them have any ties to Venezuelan
gangs or organized crime. What happened was slum lords spread
a false story about their apartment complex being taken over
by a gang as a way to get out of
doing repairs on the property, saying it was too dangerous
(25:38):
to enter the premises. Jesus, it was all like a
fucking scam by slum lords so that they wouldn't have
to fix their own apartment building. Denver seven found code
enforcement and inspection records dating back to twenty twenty that
show numerous violations prior to the influx of Venezuelan immigrants
in the Denver metro area. The complex is now under
new care, but a similar false tale of an apartment
(25:59):
building in Chicago being taken over by immigrant gangs went
viral in September due to the efforts of libs of
TikTok and Elon Musk, with libs of TikTok saying quote,
first they did this in Aurora, Colorado, and now Chicago,
which city will be next? This invasion happened on Kamala's
watch unquote. The last thing I will mention here is
(26:21):
all of the blood comments that Trump has been making
the past year. In interview last year, Trump said that
immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country. It's so bad,
and people are coming in with disease, people are coming
in with every possible thing that you could have unquote.
This clearly invokes like blood framing used by Hitler and Nazis,
(26:42):
and like eugenics in general. Yeah, and this is rhetoric
that he's continuing to use for the present. In an
interview last month, Trump say that immigrants are naturally murderers
because quote, it's in their genes. We've got a lot
of bad genes in our country right now.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I mean a lot of what this comes down to
is that after World War Two, we really needed to
execute a lot more people, you know, like you could
have quashed the eugenics movement. We needed to go after
a lot of people in the US. There were a
lot of American fascists involved in eugenics, and after Treblinka
and Auschwitz, we really just should have cleaned house, and
(27:20):
instead we let all of these people get into think tanks.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm going to close with a quote from the Atlantic
here quote. When Trump was swaying to music at a
surreal rally, he did so in front of a huge slogan,
trump was right about everything. This is the language borrow
directly from Mussolini, the Italian fascist. Soon after the rally,
the scholar Ruth ben Gate posted a photograph of a
building in Mussolini's Italy displaying the slogan Mussolini is always right.
(27:50):
Uh huh, And that reminded me of what you said
earlier about how these people just always wanted to be right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah. Yeah, that's the that's the core of it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Similarly, like people can surrender their own individual ego and
substitute it with this image of Trump right, Trump was
right about everything.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Anyway, this is kind of what I wanted to put together,
just focusing on on all of these things, because I mean,
as much as you know, foreign policy in America is
always kind of fucked. Domestic policy, I think, does often
get changed based on who is in office. And this
is what we're going to be dealing with these four years,
especially with Miller taking a larger and larger role inside
the White House.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We sure are, so everybody, buckle up.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
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