February 22, 2022 • 46 mins
Fundraiser for the victims of the mass shooting attack on the Portland BLM gathering- https://gofund.me/67b0f85b
We chat with a Starbucks barista and union organizer in Boston about the Starbucks Unionization efforts.
Starbucks Workers United- https://sbworkersunited.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody. Uh, Robert Evans here along with Garrison and Chris. Um,
we are pre empting the episode that will be airing
after this because UM of events that happened in Portland,
Oregon this weekend. On Saturday the nineteen there was a
weekly racial justice march UM. The march again it occurred.
(00:21):
It's occurred every week for a couple of years now. UM.
It is instensibly led by the mother of a Patrick Kimmins,
who is a Portland a young black Portland man who
was killed by the police a couple of years ago. UM.
This is a regular thing. As a general rule, you'll
see a lot of folks in the right talking about
this march is like an ANTIFA gathering. UM. This almost
(00:44):
never gets any coverage whatsoever because as a general rule, UM,
it's it's just a march where people, you know, protest
police violence. It's not something that that tends to to
draw much attention. UM, even within Portland's UM. This Saturday,
a person who lived in the neighborhood where people were
assembling for the march UM left their home confronted a
(01:07):
group of women who were acting as corkers. Corking is
a job at protests. It's a traffic safety thing. It's
people on a mix of usually bikes, motorcycle scooters every
now and you see like a one wheel and their
job is to kind of route traffic around the march
in order to keep people from getting hit by cars. Um.
(01:27):
It is a safety thing. UM. These folks were confronted
by this person. Reports on the ground that have been
covered in local news from people who were there say
that he started out yelling at them, calling them terrorists
and UM. According to one person who was on the scene,
within about ninety seconds began firing. Uh. He hit and
(01:48):
killed one woman, UM, and he wounded four others. UM.
And he himself was shot by a protester who was nearby,
who was, to all everything we know so far, legally
open carrying a rifle. UM. He is the shooter. UM
is in critical condition in the hospital. UM. One of
(02:11):
the people who was doing traffic security that night is dead. UM.
I believe at least one is still in the hospital.
The others have been released. UH. That's that's the the
actual like, that's those are the facts of the situation
as they're known. The protester who returned fire quickly afterwards
turned themselves and their rifle into the police. Um, you know,
the police to the stuff that they do in these instances,
(02:33):
and then released the person who had responded defensively to
the shooting. And that's where we are right now. UM.
Portland police have been very cag and saying anything about this.
They have framed it as a clash between a homeowner
and protesters. UM. One thing we can say, based on
where this person came out of it does not appear
that they were a homeowner. Looks like they left a
(02:55):
would have been like a rental thing. Not that that
particularly matters, but it's interesting the framing with the police
are choosing to use here. UM. And yeah, there's there's
fairly little information as of right now. The name of
the shooter has not been released by the police. UM.
Neither has the name of the protester who responded um
to the gunfire. But we do know, you know a
(03:18):
number of the people who were hit. We know the
person who is deceased. There is a go fund me
up right now for the people who were injured in
the people who were killed in the shooting. If you
go type up stand with Portland and to go fund me,
you will find the go fund me. Um, it's raised
a significant amount of money already, but obviously people are
going to have huge medical expenses. Yeah, there's a group
(03:42):
of two. There were two of the people who were
there were shot eleven times together. Um, it's a mess.
It's just a horrible, horrible situation. So you know, certainly
they could use your support. It's to cover like funeral expenses,
medical expenses, and then you know, helping with the overall
healing process of people are gonna miss work, people may
want to quit their jobs and stuff in the wake
(04:03):
of something like this because how could you go in
and do pretty much anything after this, you know, Um, yeah, yeah,
so please please please go set them help, Yeah, send
them help. Avoid kind of spreading anything more specific than
that until there's there's evidence. There's not yet video of this,
(04:24):
although one of the people who was there says they
have a go pro that was taken by the police
that may have something. I don't know the extent to
which we will get that information. Again, the police have
been acting to uh kind of make this look like
a clash rather than what the evidence that Like reporters
at OPB in the Portlands, Mercury and even the Times
(04:45):
have have found the interviews they've conducted. Um, it seems
fair to say that this was a mass shooting, UM
that was stopped by a protester, as opposed to what
I would call a clash. Ya. But that's that's obvious.
Portland police aren't going to want that narrative to come
out very telling. Lee. The mayor of Portland, Ted Wheeler,
(05:05):
issued a statement where he talked about the shooting as
a piece of the city's ongoing gun crime, did not
mention the woman who was killed, did not mention the injured,
but expressed his sympathy with the police for being so tired. Um.
So you know that's Portland's. Yeah, I mean it's pretty
sick and like you shouldn't like it's not like it's
(05:26):
not like dismissing it by saying it's Portland's saying like
this is like, no, there's there's been growing rather right
from the city and people the past few years that
have basically been encouraging something like this to happen. Um,
And now that it has, it is also pretty sick
looking at different like media framing and police framing and
talking about it's a homeowner and how it was like, yeah,
it was like a clash, not like an outright attack
(05:47):
on people. Um. Yeah, so it's it's it's bad, it's
it's pretty gross. But what we can do right now
is support the people who were there. Yeah, go fund
me for medical expences and you know, mental health effects
in the Yeah, because just a bit, some of the
(06:07):
wounded were themselves plugging up the bullet holes of other
wounded while they had also been shot. Because it was
a lot of the people doubled as medics or had
some sort of medical training. Um, there were medics who
were like threatened by police when they arrived on scene
for not being willing to stop providing um pressure to
a gunshot wound. Like a bunch of ugly stuff happened.
(06:28):
There's a mix of ugly stuff and like stuff that
seems ugly but it's pretty normal. Like the ambulance did
not move in immediately, which obviously people on scene were
very angry about. That is standard everywhere for like ambulances
at active shootings, and it's just I mean, it's not pleasant,
but it's also like they're not ever acting from as
much information as the people who were there maybe have.
(06:49):
I'm not I'm not gonna blame you know e M
T S or whatnot for following s OP in this situation.
I will blame the police for their responses to stuff
like this, obviously, and the fact that, um, you know it,
it's it's unlikely that a satisfying police investigation will be conducted.
That said, it does seem like we already based on
the early reporting that exists from again a number of
(07:10):
different news organizations, number of different local journalists, that we
have a pretty good idea of the basics of what happened. UM. Obviously,
more will come out in addition to you know nothing
but respect to the medics who responded. UM. I think
it's worth acknowledging that the protester who shot the shooter
(07:32):
UM seems to have from the evidence we have handled
themselves as close to perfectly as you can in a
defensive shooting. UM. They stopped the threat, UM, they went
to the police, they turned in the rifle. They did not.
And there's a number of reasons for this, including the
fact that, like the last time there was a shooting
(07:53):
that was involved a left wing demonstrator, that person was
hunted down and killed by U. S. Marshals. UM. But
it also, I think helps when it comes to the
legal stuff that's going to wash out on this the investigation.
It really helps that this person dotted their eyes and
crossed their ties to make it very clear that this
was a um A very like legal self defense situation. Obviously,
(08:19):
I think a lot of the folks who participate in
these things don't particularly care about the law one way
or the other. But in terms of how other people
see what has happened and what the fallout to this is,
and maybe the degree to which people properly put some
blame on the city for this, I think it is
helpful that the person who responded UM with their rifle
(08:40):
to the shooting conducted themselves so carefully. So, I mean,
I have I have a lot of respect for everybody
on the ground. A lot of hard decisions had to
be made UM, and it seems like in a the
worst case scenario situation, the people who were on the
ground handled themselves UM with a tremendous amount of thoughtfulness
(09:00):
and encourage. I think that's everything. Yeah, I don't think
there's not nothing much else to say at this moment
right now, Too safe, be careful, and again to go
fund me, just type type go fund me stand with
Portland into Google. It will take you to the go
fund me um and you can help folks out there. Hello,
(09:25):
welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison, and today
we're talking about two of my favorite things, which is
unions and coffee. UM. Joining me as a usual is
Chris and Sophie. What do you guys think about about
coffee and unions and the combination thereof big on unions
(09:48):
like that, like like making them, like having them not
big on coffee. It's it's too bitter. I can't do it. Unbelievable.
Union's great coffee, great, Cris ad Chris gets the wall.
It's the ultimate canceling that we are coming down all
(10:08):
the coffee issue. I don't ever tell prop that. Don't
ever talk prop. You don't like coffee. Um, and anyway
to join us to discuss coffee and unions is a
union organizer and uh also someone with a podcast, so
that's fun. Uh. But Kayleie Schuler, Hello, Hello, thank you
(10:32):
so much for having me. You know what they say
about unioniced coffee, that's better, it tastes better. That's yeah,
that is that is That is what I have heard
much better quality. That is true. Maybe that's the problem
that Chris has been having. Yess here, Yeah, that's the
that's the thing that's a Chris jumped to jump to conclusions.
(10:54):
But you failed. You failed to consider the coffee question. Um. Anyway,
we're gonna be talking about unions and coffee and Starbucks
today because there's been a massive wave of Starbucks uh
location unionizations around the country, and I like to start
by kind of discussing the origin of this like wave
(11:17):
of unionization efforts all across the states. Yeah. So, um,
you know, I'll just stay right off the bat like, um, legalities, logistics,
the nitty gritty is still not my forte and all
of this. Um, So I might not do the best
job explaining it, but I'm going to do my best, um,
(11:37):
and to get into the origin story of the whole movement.
I'm just going to get into my origin story a
little bit um with this effort. So um. I started
working at Starbucks last year, and uh, not long after,
I was approached by uh my fellow partner, my friend
Tyler Deger, and he's also one of our committee members here,
(11:59):
and he was like, hey, did you hear about what
has happened in Buffalo, and as you guys probably know,
Buffalo was the first to unionize UM, and so he
was really excited about it. I was like, yeah, sounds cool.
Probably not my thing though, UM, and he was like, no,
it's it is, like, just let's talk about it. I
(12:19):
was like, all right, fine, we talked about it. I
was like, oh, this makes so much sense, we should
definitely do this. So UM, as far as I know,
this uh started in Buffalo. They reached out to Workers
United because they knew that this was something they needed
and wanted. UM. And then when they successfully unionized, I mean,
it just sparked so much inspiration across the country and
(12:43):
we hopped on really quick. UM. Other locations in Boston
also hopped on not long after, and uh yeah, it
kind of spread like wildfire. Yeah, it's been wonderful to
watch the of wave of of of attempts and in
(13:04):
some cases, like in a lot of cases of like
successful attempts just kind of take you know, just go
all like it's how fast they've been happening in so
many different places around around the country. UM. I'd like
to talk I like to talk about like why the
Starbucks unionization kind of effort is so important? Like why
(13:25):
why this is? Like, of course, like unions are obviously
like generally a net good, but like why specifically is
it's is it important to unionize these Starbucks locations? Like
what types of like um issues is the unization trying
to kind of solve and give you know, workers better
conditions at these at these stores and cafes. So this
(13:49):
great question. And first I want to start by saying
Starbucks is a great place to work. I say that
all the time I read the benefits. There are benefits,
good ones. They pay minimum wage or whatever, Like the
pay is decent, we have benefits. It's really a lot
(14:09):
of people who work at our Starbucks say it's one
of the better jobs they've had, and we deserve a
union for It's I mean really, in my brain, it's
kind of akin to insurance. Right, you have it in
case you need it. If an emergency happens, you don't
have to pay the whole um e er bill out
of pocket. You've got some coverage coming from somewhere. Right, That,
(14:33):
at least in my mind, is what this union is for. Um.
That being said, we also just want to obviously democratize
our workplace. We want to have a spot at the
bargaining table because we you know, we have HR, we
have people to go to. But unions are partners looking
out for partners, and that's it. Starbucks looks out for
(14:56):
partners and profit. You know, it's a business, it's a
huge business. UM. So this would just give us UM
a stronger sense of empowerment. And uh again, I really
think of it kind of like insurance. It's just us
making sure we're taken care of at all times. Yeah,
(15:18):
what what type of kind of you know, whenever the
discussion of union's kind of starts at workplaces, there's always
like an element of like secrecy and you know, being
worried about you know, different types of suppression. So what
types of kind of things have people been doing when
the when the union is like trying to get is
trying to get trying to get off the ground to organize,
Like like are people using like signal chats? Like what
(15:41):
what is what is like in this in these stores?
How is how are we trying to get more people
to like be comfortable with this idea and get like
get started with the organizing process. That's a really good question.
And we're still doing that work all the time. That
work doesn't really end, especially because um, it's commonly known
(16:06):
now so I don't feel scared to say it. But
there are being there is union busting happening. It's happening
all the time. UM, and it's scary and it's intimidating,
and it's meant to be and it's effective, you know. So, Um,
we have a majority yes vote in my store. I
already know that. But it also takes upkeep. It takes maintenance. Um.
(16:29):
It takes checking in with people and you know, for
my money, checking in and saying, hey, how are you
feeling about this? Are you doing okay? Like I know
that this is scary. I know that you're hearing things
like do you have any questions? Um. It takes us
doing our due diligence and researching the things that they're saying. Um.
And yeah, I mean it's it's kind of a constant
(16:51):
thing as far as like technically how it's done. I
mean lots of group chats, just like, way too many
group chats. That that is been most of my experience
with most most political organizing. A general is just way
way too many group chats. Yeah, in terms of like
what Starbucks is doing to start there like union busting response?
(17:15):
Is this website that they have launched. Yeah, I I
know you've I know you've tweeted about this, uh about
this site, So I would love to love to discuss it. Yeah,
I mean I just went off. I didn't really think
much of it, you know, I just I saw it
on there and just was like, this is lies. Um.
I mean, well, for one, I'm trying to remember everything
(17:39):
I've read and tweeted. But the one that's coming to
mind is when they say this may affect your relationship
with your store manager and it may make it difficult
for to me, that is that may depends entirely on
how much um, union bustings are about wants to do.
(18:01):
If you want to tell our store managers that this
will negatively impact our relationship with them, if that's how
you want to frame it, then yeah, I probably will. Um.
If you if you want to make it more difficult
by not negotiating the contract easily with us, um, yeah,
(18:21):
then that might happen. It's not that's not a union problem.
That's a Starbucks problem that they are framing as a
union problem. Um. Yeah, I can't what were the other
things that I id just like to also explain, like
what the site is and what it's like trying to do.
(18:42):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean it's it's um, it's union investing.
It's uh, it's giving it's giving partners the facts that
they need to know, you know, like it's it's we
want to make sure that you are informed before you vote. Know, Um,
that's what that is. It's this like sleekily designed page
(19:03):
that has the list of facts about about organizing and
all the reasons why it's going to negatively represent, negatively
affect your relationship with the Starbucks Corporation. Oh, this was
one of the points said, Um, the union may not
negotiate for some things you are hoping for, and some
things you value now might go away. That is so ridiculous.
(19:27):
That's a threat. Yeah, that's a threat that your well
being will be changed, Like we might not negotiate this
contract very nicely with you. That the union is us.
They love to talk about the third party and oh,
your your store manager is gonna have to work with
a steward. The steward is going to be someone who
(19:47):
already works in the store. Yes, the steward is us.
The union is us. Why would we negotiate a contract
that doesn't benefit us. That's so silly, It's it's it's
it's very typical union busting kind of behavior. And if
you know, if they can just if this type of
(20:08):
propagandic you know, can just convince a few people and
and and scare and scare only only a couple of
the people, that will be enough to kind of cause
division and shutdown efforts in the store. Right, So that's
that's that's all that their goal is is to prevent
you know, at least one more store from not doing it.
That's like, as long as they do that, then it's
then then then it's like successful. Um. Absolutely, And you know,
(20:29):
based on how many people work at an individual, individual store,
that's not entirely unlikely, right is it? Will? You know
it will? Like you you, union busting efforts do work
in a lot of cases, and that's why they still
do them. Like that's absolutely absolutely yeah, And that's why
it's it's really important for um, you know, if there
(20:51):
are any partners listening to this, um. And partners, by
the way, is what you know we call ourselves at Starbucks. Yes,
the the social aspect of this within your store. The
checking in with your partners and seeing how they're feeling
about it and having UM as many face to face
(21:13):
conversations as you can have and really really sticking by
each other is really important because Yeah, like I said,
these UM tactics are tried and true, they're effective, they're intimidating, UM,
and so you have to really supporting each other through
that and keep reminding each other like, no, there's a
reason we're doing this this, this is actually still a
(21:35):
good thing, you know, because on top of our jobs,
and then a lot of partners are in school or
they have families, like we already have a lot going on,
and then we have to go into work and be
reminded that our desire for a union is not valuable
to Starbucks, and so they're gonna make things harder by
(21:58):
doing all the things they're doing. Um. You have to
really really be there for each other through this process. Yeah,
I mean, that's, you know, solidarity one of the key
of the key tenants of this type of you know,
the type of organizing. Absolutely. I know Chris is a
(22:23):
pretty big union appreciator. I mean, I I like unions,
but but Chris, Chris really really really really enjoy. So
I'm wondering if you if you have anything, he likes
them so much, he'll he'll even like unionized coffee. He'll
be like this coffee still, it will it will good work, Chris.
(22:45):
Some of the some of the there's some storts in
Chicago that are unionizing, and I'm like, hmm, maybe maybe
you should check them out. Yeah, you should at least
at least check about and say like hi, it'd be like, yeah, great,
what's a great thing to do. Um, definitely go to
those stores, go up to the counter and offer you
or um order your coffee, and then ask them to
(23:06):
write like unions strong or we love unions as your name. Um,
because when the barisas are making the coffee and they
still like see that sticker come through, it's we really
love that, Chris. They have great tea there too, ice cream, Yeah,
the honey tea, it's really good. Or the chie likes
(23:29):
saying information though about like yeah we have there's finally
a store that's like somewhat near Los Angeles where I
am that that is announced they're unionizing, which is exciting, Like, okay, California,
way to join the party. Late but you know, it's
it's cool, go ahead. Yeah. One thing I'm interested in
(23:50):
is how how big is the shop, Like how many
people are sort of like, well, I'm not not in
the like, just how many people there like could potentially
join the union. I mean, anyone could. I think we
have about twenty. I could be so wrong, but I
(24:11):
think we have around twenty partners in our store right now. Um,
and yeah, any well, yeah, just about anybody could join that.
Not anyone who's salaried. Yeah, okay, but I mean that
seems that seems pretty common across all the different stores.
Is around that it's around like twenty union eligible people
(24:31):
per location. Seems roughly accurate based on the stuff I've
seen from you know, Seattle to Philadelphia to Boston to
Buffalo too, you know, all all places in between. And yeah,
so part part of part of like the actual more
organizational structure is a linked to Work as United. Yes,
part of the part of the Service Employees International Union
(24:53):
UM affiliate kind of a family of unions UM who's
kind of led the lad the campaign or you know,
has been part of the campaign UM to unionize the
you know, thousands of locations through the States and yeah.
I think around like eighty locations, including two of the
company's flagship ones inside Seattle and New York, have have
(25:16):
joined this this effort, and it does seem like every
day there's like more stores popping up. Who are who
are who are saying yeah, this is a good idea.
This is whether it be to you know, be like, yeah,
some of our equipment is old, and it's like, you know,
it causes like keep burns because it's not like maintenance properly,
(25:36):
or being like yeah, there's a lot of like sexual
harassment caused by like some like some like patrons that
never gets addressed by management um and or you know
saying like yeah, I may be deserved to be paid
more than fifteen dollars an hour um. With rent being
you know as high as as high as it is,
maybe we should be paying over twenty bucks an hour.
(25:57):
I don't know how everybody else is doing, but my
rent situation is interesting. So rent has been ballooning in
recent in recent months, even it's been it's been really
going up, which I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about
it at some point on the show here, but yeah,
like there's a lot of there's a lot of issues
that are being like, yeah, maybe people should be paid more,
(26:18):
people should be at the bargaining table. There's a lot
of things to address to make it a safer workplace,
to make it a workplace where you're more respected. Um.
And it's uh, it's really nice to see people saying, yeah,
I'm not gonna put up with the city more and
we can do something about it, because like there are
mechanisms to to do this, right, that's why it's happening.
(26:39):
So that's that's very uh, very exciting to see taking place.
It really is. And it you know, you make a
lot of great points and bring up a lot of
the benefits of having a union, and it just like
it just surprises me how anti union Starbucks is is
(27:00):
period um, because it's just it's like, I don't know, you, yeah,
you paint such a beautiful picture, because it is a
beautiful picture to have autonomy and um, respect and empowerment
in the workplace. You know, they they train us to
work through the lens of humanity, you know, by their words,
and uh, it's pretty humane to let people have a say,
(27:23):
a real stay in the workplace. You know. Yeah, I
think it kind of exposes that type of you know,
pretty pretty corporate language that formative. Yeah exactly, it's, um,
I am interested in like the other like kind of
union busting or soft union busting kind of stuff going
on even like before this website in terms of how
(27:45):
like manage like how like management has been responding, um,
and how more like like what like what like the
local responses to wind stores start talking about this. Yeah,
And and another fall up to that is I noticed
that COVID was mytioned on this on this website. Is
that being brought up within union busting at all? Or
(28:06):
is that brought I just it was like a huge
red flag for me that they used like well, we
helped your during COVID we were there for you, which
really did not. That's like that's like that's like that's
like abusive terminology. That is pretty manipulative to be like
we we helped you during a pandemic. It's it's like, well, yes,
(28:31):
as you should. Yeah, you're the place where I was employed.
I give something to you, you give something to me.
And yeah, and as I Twitter ranted in the comment,
you know, like with peace and love, we had to
beg to get our cafe closed, you know, like we
we like, it wasn't like we just uh cases rose
and they came in and said, hey, guys, we're gonna
(28:52):
close it. Like we had. We were calling and um
making a stink and I mean we were talking about striking,
but then remembered we're not unionized yet. We didn't but
uh yeah, I mean it was we Yeah, we were
really fed up. UM people sitting in there for hours
with their faces out, you know, as cases were rising.
(29:14):
So UM yeah, great point. That's really pretty manipulative because
like you should be helping us through covid. UM. That's
not like a that's not a benefit, that's just that's like, yeah,
it's not killing people. It's like should should be something
(29:36):
that's just kind of always there. UM, shouldn't shouldn't be
an extra, you know. Yeah. And I mean as far
as UM, you know, sort of local UM interference, I
guess I'll say UM. I do want to say UM.
In my case, our store manager, UM, I really care
(29:57):
about her. UM. I have a great working relationship with her.
I really respect her. She's done a lot of good
for our store. UM, and she's really just doing the
best she can having conversations with us. UM. She has
her opinions and feelings about it, and I just try
to listen to them, and she listens to mine. Um.
(30:21):
But there definitely Yeah, I mean as soon as we
filed for an election, we started actually as soon as
we started organizing, and they sort of caught wind. Um.
We started having barista meetings, which are as vague as
they sound, um, And people who had worked there longer
than me said, we've never had these before. Um, maybe once,
(30:45):
you know, in a few years. Um. So we started
having all these meetings and not even talking about the
union at first, but all of a sudden they wanted
to hear from us and fix things in the store
and and all this stuff and be super helpful and present.
And then there definitely just was a heightened corporate presence
(31:06):
in the store. Um, people we've never seen before coming
in like, hey, how are you doing? Want to talk?
It's like, no, you're a stranger, like all low to
talk to you. Um. So that was weird. Um. But yeah, yeah,
there's there's definitely definitely just a shift in presence. Um again,
any of these meetings and um, yeah, it's been interesting.
(31:30):
What what do you kind of how do you see
like the situation resolving like do you do you like
how how like do you have has also like, yeah,
what's like the state of of of your stores specifically? Yeah,
so we are on our way to an election. Um,
(31:51):
we've requested an election. Uh so we're really just like
in a waiting period for that. We don't know exactly
when it's gonna be. We've heard soon, um, but who
knows when that is? Um? We yeah, we have some
(32:12):
we we had to do a zoom hearing for some
of the legalities for things here in Massachusetts. That was interesting.
But yeah, so we're we're just waiting for the election
at this point. And the election is what will uh
you know, that's when we're going to cast our yes
or no vote, um, and we will find out whether
or not we're gonna unionize. And I think we will unionize.
(32:35):
It's looking that way. I'm confident, um, and I really
look forward to that. What do you think, um, Like,
what do you see is happening after the vote is done? Like, like,
assuming it is a vote yes, Like, how do you
think this will impact um working at the store going forward?
(32:58):
It's gonna be interesting and it's going to be an adjustment,
right because from the time that we vote and we
vote yes. Let's say we vote yes and we're going
to unionize. There is it could take a long time.
It could take a year. We don't know. It could
take more and less UM to get from that vote
(33:18):
to you know, what we refer to as the bargaining
table UM to negotiating a contract with Starbucks. UM. And
in that time there are things UM. And again, if
partners are listening, you can do your research on this
on the n l r B website. UM. There, you know,
there are things that will be UM different in that
(33:42):
waiting period. Right, So if if Starbucks decides to release
UM a nationwide UM spring raise, because why not we
love giving you raises, UM, we would be exempt from
that because we're in negotiations. Because we're in this sort
of in between spot. UM there there are little weird
(34:03):
things that we might have to just be aware of
no going in UM in that sort of interim uh yeah,
and then eventually, you know, those raises and any other
things that we've sort of been waiting on get brought
to the bargaining table. Yeah. I think this is an
important thing for people to understand when when you're doing
(34:24):
union organizing right is you know, you have this giant
push and you have like you have to have the
push to get to get either recognition or to get
this the National Labor Relations Board vote. But most unions
that go under go under in like before the first contract,
and you have to like that's that's something that you
know when when you when you talk to people who
(34:45):
who are the professionally you need organizers, they talked, they
talked about this constantly, just like you have to hold
it together during during that period between your first like
betwetween when you when your when when you get recognized
it when your vote ends that first contract. And it's
hard in a lot of ways, Yeah, because they thinks
we're talking about like management will do you know, they'll
(35:05):
they'll intensify the union busting because they're hoping the union
will still fall apart. But if you hold it together
and if you get that first contract your union, like
you know, you now have a union and you've basically
stabilized and at that point, like you now have a
seat at the table and you have to take your
seat the table and fight. Yeah, but it's a big
responsibility when when you say hold it together during that time,
(35:30):
do you do. You mean, like, um, just through those
changes and that interim and that sort of weird awkward phase,
like you have to like just hold it together like
mentally and just kind of power through it. Yeah. Well also,
I mean you have to, like you have to just
keep making sure everyone's involved, which is something that's difficult because, Yeah,
(35:51):
especially after sort of the initially because people have also
had like a job to do it in this entire time, right,
they're still they're still make and coffee, they're still making
a podcast, they're still doing whatever. Sover. Have you ever done?
This is sort of beside the point, but it's fun.
Have you guys ever done like the sixteen personalities personality assessment?
(36:14):
At some point? I've never done it. It's really fun.
I just did it for school, and it's the thing
that tells you, like, I'm an i n f J
TV and my thing is the advocate Sophie. What's yours?
You look like you had one ready to go. I
don't remember what it was, but I remember having to
do it like fifteen times in school. Yeah. I also
(36:38):
I also forget what I the one that I did
for when I was in school as well, But I
I brought it up because I'm thinking I want to
send it to my fellow organizers and be like, do
this and we can sort of highlight what each other's
strengths are, um and start playing into those because like
you were saying, Chris, like it really is a team effort,
(37:00):
and I think it only really works if you are
utilizing people and respecting people's strengths, you know, because not
everyone has the same strengths. Like, yeah, you might be
a kick as graphic designer, but like not everyone can
do that. You know, maybe they're better at hosting get togethers,
or they're better at writing emails or whatever. You know.
(37:24):
I think, yeah, playing to strengths is so important in
the long run because yeah, it can take a year
to get to the negotiating table, which which like is horrible,
Like that shouldn't be like it should it shouldn't be
that long. Um. And you know, tactics such as like specifically,
you know, raising wages around a unionization effort so that
(37:44):
people in the union don't get it. That is like
another form of union investing. Like that is like, don't
think they haven't thought that through, Like that is that
is part of that whole process. Being like, oh, yeah,
you could have a union or you can get higher
wages out Like that's like, that's that is part of
what's going on. It's because they want people to not
(38:04):
sign on to have long term benefits, so they're going
to offer these short term benefits. So like it really
is like because of how elongated the unionization process can be,
it gives a lot of time for people to get
burnt out. Um, and and combating that, like combating being
burnt out is one of the most important parts. And yeah,
it's it's really it's really challenging sometimes. Oh my gosh, absolutely,
(38:28):
I mean I love that conversation. I'm like a mental
health dweeb. Um, it's it's my it's what my my
podcast is called Your Messy Friend, and that's basically all
I talk about is mental health. And yeah, the burnout.
I mean, I'm recovering from burnout right now. You know, Um,
(38:48):
it's very real. You have to make sure that you know,
while you're taking care of everybody else and making these efforts,
like you have to make sure that you are checking
with yourself every a and making sure your needs are
being met because giving from an empty tank does not
last long. As I'm sure you guys know, yeah, if
(39:11):
you uh, if if you're, if you're, if the water
in your espresso machine is out, then nothing can flow
through to make the exactly see. It was what an
amazingly crafted metaphor. I just not tortured it at all anyway.
(39:41):
So what is the like turnover rate at the store? Like,
like how how quickly are people coming in and out
of jobs? And how has that been affecting organizing? The
cool question. Um, we haven't had a ton of people
leave since I got there, I mean, and I definitely
(40:03):
I can pretty confidently say none of those had to
do with unionizing. Um, it was all for just like
different reasons. Um, we've had quite a few more people
come in recently, and I would say that, Um, I mean,
it's it's weird because our current store manager, uh was great.
(40:23):
She was hired around the same time that we really
started amping up union stuff. And you know, it's almost
unfortunate because I think she thought it was it was
about her, and it just so wasn't you know. Um,
but yeah, so it's who knows if it was just
(40:44):
because she was there now or because of the union
stuff or both. But uh, they did start hiring quite
a few more people, um around the time that we
started organizing, And yeah, I mean it's you have to
walk this fine line when you have new people coming in.
Of course, you want to get to them and give
them your info um or at least give them resources
(41:05):
to look into before corporate gets to them. UM. But
then you also they're they're learning a new job. It's
really fast paced and overwhelming, Like you have to be
careful not to totally overwhelm them either. I mean that
that's really something I've just tried to keep in mind
(41:26):
throughout the whole process. Is like when my friend Tyler
approached me, I was like, I don't know what this is.
I don't I don't know if this is necessary for me.
And now I'm on the committee, you know, so you
know what I mean. Like, it's that thing where I'm like, Okay,
if I could be convinced, maybe anyone can. All right,
(41:54):
is there um any direct action that people who are listening,
or any called action you have for us that we
can to our listeners or links or anything that you
think would be useful for our people to know. That's
a cool idea. Yeah, thanks, Um, Like we mentioned before
if you want to just like stop by your local
(42:15):
unionizing Starbucks and get a coffee with the name you know,
unionized or union strong. That like that in person support,
especially when your first organizing, is really really helpful. Even
just stopping by to drop off a card or say hey,
good luck with unionizing. UM, that really means a lot. UM.
(42:38):
You can follow SB Workers United on Instagram and Twitter
and just engage with us, UM reach out if you
need info about how to organize. The people on Instagram
or so, I mean on all the platforms are just
like so on top of responding UM and uh, website,
(43:02):
I think we have a website? Would I would assume so,
I would assume at this point. Yeah, I mean we
have a pretty pop in Instagram and Twitter. But UM, yeah,
I don't. I don't think I'm forgetting anything. I think
that's that's about it. UM and just making noise on
online is also really helpful. You know, I love when
(43:24):
people comment on Starbucks posts and they're like, yeah, how
about unions though, yeah, nion. The website is s B
Workers United dot org, affiliated with the Workers United and
the Starbucks know. I think Effort, which has ways to
donate or by by merch in support of the union
(43:47):
and that kind of stuff, which funds I'll go to
the go to the campaign and you know, just in
case it wasn't clear, Like and this is something you'll
hear from Starbucks. Is all of this about the third
party and Workers United is going to do this us
and that, blah blah blah. We essentially, you know, we
work with that. They promote our cause, you know what
(44:08):
I mean, they're here to support our mission and our goals.
I mean, you'd be amazed by how much partners do
for this, you know, so much. But we we do
the nitty gritty every day, communicating with each other. We're
communicating nationally now we have a platform for that. UM
(44:29):
and yeah, it's really cool. And so like they are,
they're kind of like, I don't know, the supporting beams
of of everything we're doing. You know, it's us, yeah,
but like the actual makeup of it definitely is with
Starbucks employees, you know, and all the people I've been
in like Twitter conversations with our d m s who
are involved. It's like, yeah, like everyone who's like actively
(44:50):
involved in doing it all has worked at Starbucks before.
Um and still and still are like it is. It
is definitely being led by the workers. Um and yeah
that's really great and really crucial. UM. Do you have
any do you have any other plugables either for yourself
or for yeah anything else plug your pod? Yeah? Thanks guys, UM,
(45:13):
this was really fun. Thank you for having me on.
I love podcasting. UM, so yeah, I mentioned sp Workers
United on Instagram and Twitter. Make sure you give them
a follow, follow Barista's you find along the way. Who
are you know speaking up about this? Show them your support. UM.
My podcast is called your Messy Friend. You can find me.
(45:37):
I think wherever you get your podcasts definitely Spotify That's
what I use. UM and yeah that's about it. Well,
thank you so much Kayleie for joining us today. You
talked about Starbucks and unions. UM can follow us online
on Twitter, Instagram, at Happened Here pod and cool Zone
Media and I think that does it? Does it for us?
(45:59):
Can't wait for y'all to win? Yeah, absolutely can't. Can't
can't wait for you guys to win. As soon as
as soon as Portland locations start going, I'll definitely go
in and support, But until then I will make coffee
alone in my my my my lonely, my, my lonely
espresso machine. Um, but yeah, thank you, thank you so
(46:20):
much for for coming on to talk. Thank you, thank
you so much. It could Happen here as a production
of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool zone Media,
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources
(46:42):
for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone
media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
Hey everybody. Uh, Robert Evans here along with Garrison and Chris. Um,
we are pre empting the episode that will be airing
after this because UM of events that happened in Portland,
Oregon this weekend. On Saturday the nineteen there was a
weekly racial justice march UM. The march again it occurred.
(00:21):
It's occurred every week for a couple of years now. UM.
It is instensibly led by the mother of a Patrick Kimmins,
who is a Portland a young black Portland man who
was killed by the police a couple of years ago. UM.
This is a regular thing. As a general rule, you'll
see a lot of folks in the right talking about
this march is like an ANTIFA gathering. UM. This almost
(00:44):
never gets any coverage whatsoever because as a general rule, UM,
it's it's just a march where people, you know, protest
police violence. It's not something that that tends to to
draw much attention. UM, even within Portland's UM. This Saturday,
a person who lived in the neighborhood where people were
assembling for the march UM left their home confronted a
(01:07):
group of women who were acting as corkers. Corking is
a job at protests. It's a traffic safety thing. It's
people on a mix of usually bikes, motorcycle scooters every
now and you see like a one wheel and their
job is to kind of route traffic around the march
in order to keep people from getting hit by cars. Um.
(01:27):
It is a safety thing. UM. These folks were confronted
by this person. Reports on the ground that have been
covered in local news from people who were there say
that he started out yelling at them, calling them terrorists
and UM. According to one person who was on the scene,
within about ninety seconds began firing. Uh. He hit and
(01:48):
killed one woman, UM, and he wounded four others. UM.
And he himself was shot by a protester who was nearby,
who was, to all everything we know so far, legally
open carrying a rifle. UM. He is the shooter. UM
is in critical condition in the hospital. UM. One of
(02:11):
the people who was doing traffic security that night is dead. UM.
I believe at least one is still in the hospital.
The others have been released. UH. That's that's the the
actual like, that's those are the facts of the situation
as they're known. The protester who returned fire quickly afterwards
turned themselves and their rifle into the police. Um, you know,
the police to the stuff that they do in these instances,
(02:33):
and then released the person who had responded defensively to
the shooting. And that's where we are right now. UM.
Portland police have been very cag and saying anything about this.
They have framed it as a clash between a homeowner
and protesters. UM. One thing we can say, based on
where this person came out of it does not appear
that they were a homeowner. Looks like they left a
(02:55):
would have been like a rental thing. Not that that
particularly matters, but it's interesting the framing with the police
are choosing to use here. UM. And yeah, there's there's
fairly little information as of right now. The name of
the shooter has not been released by the police. UM.
Neither has the name of the protester who responded um
to the gunfire. But we do know, you know a
(03:18):
number of the people who were hit. We know the
person who is deceased. There is a go fund me
up right now for the people who were injured in
the people who were killed in the shooting. If you
go type up stand with Portland and to go fund me,
you will find the go fund me. Um, it's raised
a significant amount of money already, but obviously people are
going to have huge medical expenses. Yeah, there's a group
(03:42):
of two. There were two of the people who were
there were shot eleven times together. Um, it's a mess.
It's just a horrible, horrible situation. So you know, certainly
they could use your support. It's to cover like funeral expenses,
medical expenses, and then you know, helping with the overall
healing process of people are gonna miss work, people may
want to quit their jobs and stuff in the wake
(04:03):
of something like this because how could you go in
and do pretty much anything after this, you know, Um, yeah, yeah,
so please please please go set them help, Yeah, send
them help. Avoid kind of spreading anything more specific than
that until there's there's evidence. There's not yet video of this,
(04:24):
although one of the people who was there says they
have a go pro that was taken by the police
that may have something. I don't know the extent to
which we will get that information. Again, the police have
been acting to uh kind of make this look like
a clash rather than what the evidence that Like reporters
at OPB in the Portlands, Mercury and even the Times
(04:45):
have have found the interviews they've conducted. Um, it seems
fair to say that this was a mass shooting, UM
that was stopped by a protester, as opposed to what
I would call a clash. Ya. But that's that's obvious.
Portland police aren't going to want that narrative to come
out very telling. Lee. The mayor of Portland, Ted Wheeler,
(05:05):
issued a statement where he talked about the shooting as
a piece of the city's ongoing gun crime, did not
mention the woman who was killed, did not mention the injured,
but expressed his sympathy with the police for being so tired. Um.
So you know that's Portland's. Yeah, I mean it's pretty
sick and like you shouldn't like it's not like it's
(05:26):
not like dismissing it by saying it's Portland's saying like
this is like, no, there's there's been growing rather right
from the city and people the past few years that
have basically been encouraging something like this to happen. Um,
And now that it has, it is also pretty sick
looking at different like media framing and police framing and
talking about it's a homeowner and how it was like, yeah,
it was like a clash, not like an outright attack
(05:47):
on people. Um. Yeah, so it's it's it's bad, it's
it's pretty gross. But what we can do right now
is support the people who were there. Yeah, go fund
me for medical expences and you know, mental health effects
in the Yeah, because just a bit, some of the
(06:07):
wounded were themselves plugging up the bullet holes of other
wounded while they had also been shot. Because it was
a lot of the people doubled as medics or had
some sort of medical training. Um, there were medics who
were like threatened by police when they arrived on scene
for not being willing to stop providing um pressure to
a gunshot wound. Like a bunch of ugly stuff happened.
(06:28):
There's a mix of ugly stuff and like stuff that
seems ugly but it's pretty normal. Like the ambulance did
not move in immediately, which obviously people on scene were
very angry about. That is standard everywhere for like ambulances
at active shootings, and it's just I mean, it's not pleasant,
but it's also like they're not ever acting from as
much information as the people who were there maybe have.
(06:49):
I'm not I'm not gonna blame you know e M
T S or whatnot for following s OP in this situation.
I will blame the police for their responses to stuff
like this, obviously, and the fact that, um, you know it,
it's it's unlikely that a satisfying police investigation will be conducted.
That said, it does seem like we already based on
the early reporting that exists from again a number of
(07:10):
different news organizations, number of different local journalists, that we
have a pretty good idea of the basics of what happened. UM. Obviously,
more will come out in addition to you know nothing
but respect to the medics who responded. UM. I think
it's worth acknowledging that the protester who shot the shooter
(07:32):
UM seems to have from the evidence we have handled
themselves as close to perfectly as you can in a
defensive shooting. UM. They stopped the threat, UM, they went
to the police, they turned in the rifle. They did not.
And there's a number of reasons for this, including the
fact that, like the last time there was a shooting
(07:53):
that was involved a left wing demonstrator, that person was
hunted down and killed by U. S. Marshals. UM. But
it also, I think helps when it comes to the
legal stuff that's going to wash out on this the investigation.
It really helps that this person dotted their eyes and
crossed their ties to make it very clear that this
was a um A very like legal self defense situation. Obviously,
(08:19):
I think a lot of the folks who participate in
these things don't particularly care about the law one way
or the other. But in terms of how other people
see what has happened and what the fallout to this is,
and maybe the degree to which people properly put some
blame on the city for this, I think it is
helpful that the person who responded UM with their rifle
(08:40):
to the shooting conducted themselves so carefully. So, I mean,
I have I have a lot of respect for everybody
on the ground. A lot of hard decisions had to
be made UM, and it seems like in a the
worst case scenario situation, the people who were on the
ground handled themselves UM with a tremendous amount of thoughtfulness
(09:00):
and encourage. I think that's everything. Yeah, I don't think
there's not nothing much else to say at this moment
right now, Too safe, be careful, and again to go
fund me, just type type go fund me stand with
Portland into Google. It will take you to the go
fund me um and you can help folks out there. Hello,
(09:25):
welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison, and today
we're talking about two of my favorite things, which is
unions and coffee. UM. Joining me as a usual is
Chris and Sophie. What do you guys think about about
coffee and unions and the combination thereof big on unions
(09:48):
like that, like like making them, like having them not
big on coffee. It's it's too bitter. I can't do it. Unbelievable.
Union's great coffee, great, Cris ad Chris gets the wall.
It's the ultimate canceling that we are coming down all
(10:08):
the coffee issue. I don't ever tell prop that. Don't
ever talk prop. You don't like coffee. Um, and anyway
to join us to discuss coffee and unions is a
union organizer and uh also someone with a podcast, so
that's fun. Uh. But Kayleie Schuler, Hello, Hello, thank you
(10:32):
so much for having me. You know what they say
about unioniced coffee, that's better, it tastes better. That's yeah,
that is that is That is what I have heard
much better quality. That is true. Maybe that's the problem
that Chris has been having. Yess here, Yeah, that's the
that's the thing that's a Chris jumped to jump to conclusions.
(10:54):
But you failed. You failed to consider the coffee question. Um. Anyway,
we're gonna be talking about unions and coffee and Starbucks
today because there's been a massive wave of Starbucks uh
location unionizations around the country, and I like to start
by kind of discussing the origin of this like wave
(11:17):
of unionization efforts all across the states. Yeah. So, um,
you know, I'll just stay right off the bat like, um, legalities, logistics,
the nitty gritty is still not my forte and all
of this. Um, So I might not do the best
job explaining it, but I'm going to do my best, um,
(11:37):
and to get into the origin story of the whole movement.
I'm just going to get into my origin story a
little bit um with this effort. So um. I started
working at Starbucks last year, and uh, not long after,
I was approached by uh my fellow partner, my friend
Tyler Deger, and he's also one of our committee members here,
(11:59):
and he was like, hey, did you hear about what
has happened in Buffalo, and as you guys probably know,
Buffalo was the first to unionize UM, and so he
was really excited about it. I was like, yeah, sounds cool.
Probably not my thing though, UM, and he was like, no,
it's it is, like, just let's talk about it. I
(12:19):
was like, all right, fine, we talked about it. I
was like, oh, this makes so much sense, we should
definitely do this. So UM, as far as I know,
this uh started in Buffalo. They reached out to Workers
United because they knew that this was something they needed
and wanted. UM. And then when they successfully unionized, I mean,
it just sparked so much inspiration across the country and
(12:43):
we hopped on really quick. UM. Other locations in Boston
also hopped on not long after, and uh yeah, it
kind of spread like wildfire. Yeah, it's been wonderful to
watch the of wave of of of attempts and in
(13:04):
some cases, like in a lot of cases of like
successful attempts just kind of take you know, just go
all like it's how fast they've been happening in so
many different places around around the country. UM. I'd like
to talk I like to talk about like why the
Starbucks unionization kind of effort is so important? Like why
(13:25):
why this is? Like, of course, like unions are obviously
like generally a net good, but like why specifically is
it's is it important to unionize these Starbucks locations? Like
what types of like um issues is the unization trying
to kind of solve and give you know, workers better
conditions at these at these stores and cafes. So this
(13:49):
great question. And first I want to start by saying
Starbucks is a great place to work. I say that
all the time I read the benefits. There are benefits,
good ones. They pay minimum wage or whatever, Like the
pay is decent, we have benefits. It's really a lot
(14:09):
of people who work at our Starbucks say it's one
of the better jobs they've had, and we deserve a
union for It's I mean really, in my brain, it's
kind of akin to insurance. Right, you have it in
case you need it. If an emergency happens, you don't
have to pay the whole um e er bill out
of pocket. You've got some coverage coming from somewhere. Right, That,
(14:33):
at least in my mind, is what this union is for. Um.
That being said, we also just want to obviously democratize
our workplace. We want to have a spot at the
bargaining table because we you know, we have HR, we
have people to go to. But unions are partners looking
out for partners, and that's it. Starbucks looks out for
(14:56):
partners and profit. You know, it's a business, it's a
huge business. UM. So this would just give us UM
a stronger sense of empowerment. And uh again, I really
think of it kind of like insurance. It's just us
making sure we're taken care of at all times. Yeah,
(15:18):
what what type of kind of you know, whenever the
discussion of union's kind of starts at workplaces, there's always
like an element of like secrecy and you know, being
worried about you know, different types of suppression. So what
types of kind of things have people been doing when
the when the union is like trying to get is
trying to get trying to get off the ground to organize,
Like like are people using like signal chats? Like what
(15:41):
what is what is like in this in these stores?
How is how are we trying to get more people
to like be comfortable with this idea and get like
get started with the organizing process. That's a really good question.
And we're still doing that work all the time. That
work doesn't really end, especially because um, it's commonly known
(16:06):
now so I don't feel scared to say it. But
there are being there is union busting happening. It's happening
all the time. UM, and it's scary and it's intimidating,
and it's meant to be and it's effective, you know. So, Um,
we have a majority yes vote in my store. I
already know that. But it also takes upkeep. It takes maintenance. Um.
(16:29):
It takes checking in with people and you know, for
my money, checking in and saying, hey, how are you
feeling about this? Are you doing okay? Like I know
that this is scary. I know that you're hearing things
like do you have any questions? Um. It takes us
doing our due diligence and researching the things that they're saying. Um.
And yeah, I mean it's it's kind of a constant
(16:51):
thing as far as like technically how it's done. I
mean lots of group chats, just like, way too many
group chats. That that is been most of my experience
with most most political organizing. A general is just way
way too many group chats. Yeah, in terms of like
what Starbucks is doing to start there like union busting response?
(17:15):
Is this website that they have launched. Yeah, I I
know you've I know you've tweeted about this, uh about
this site, So I would love to love to discuss it. Yeah,
I mean I just went off. I didn't really think
much of it, you know, I just I saw it
on there and just was like, this is lies. Um.
I mean, well, for one, I'm trying to remember everything
(17:39):
I've read and tweeted. But the one that's coming to
mind is when they say this may affect your relationship
with your store manager and it may make it difficult
for to me, that is that may depends entirely on
how much um, union bustings are about wants to do.
(18:01):
If you want to tell our store managers that this
will negatively impact our relationship with them, if that's how
you want to frame it, then yeah, I probably will. Um.
If you if you want to make it more difficult
by not negotiating the contract easily with us, um, yeah,
(18:21):
then that might happen. It's not that's not a union problem.
That's a Starbucks problem that they are framing as a
union problem. Um. Yeah, I can't what were the other
things that I id just like to also explain, like
what the site is and what it's like trying to do.
(18:42):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean it's it's um, it's union investing.
It's uh, it's giving it's giving partners the facts that
they need to know, you know, like it's it's we
want to make sure that you are informed before you vote. Know, Um,
that's what that is. It's this like sleekily designed page
(19:03):
that has the list of facts about about organizing and
all the reasons why it's going to negatively represent, negatively
affect your relationship with the Starbucks Corporation. Oh, this was
one of the points said, Um, the union may not
negotiate for some things you are hoping for, and some
things you value now might go away. That is so ridiculous.
(19:27):
That's a threat. Yeah, that's a threat that your well
being will be changed, Like we might not negotiate this
contract very nicely with you. That the union is us.
They love to talk about the third party and oh,
your your store manager is gonna have to work with
a steward. The steward is going to be someone who
(19:47):
already works in the store. Yes, the steward is us.
The union is us. Why would we negotiate a contract
that doesn't benefit us. That's so silly, It's it's it's
it's very typical union busting kind of behavior. And if
you know, if they can just if this type of
(20:08):
propagandic you know, can just convince a few people and
and and scare and scare only only a couple of
the people, that will be enough to kind of cause
division and shutdown efforts in the store. Right, So that's
that's that's all that their goal is is to prevent
you know, at least one more store from not doing it.
That's like, as long as they do that, then it's
then then then it's like successful. Um. Absolutely, And you know,
(20:29):
based on how many people work at an individual, individual store,
that's not entirely unlikely, right is it? Will? You know
it will? Like you you, union busting efforts do work
in a lot of cases, and that's why they still
do them. Like that's absolutely absolutely yeah, And that's why
it's it's really important for um, you know, if there
(20:51):
are any partners listening to this, um. And partners, by
the way, is what you know we call ourselves at Starbucks. Yes,
the the social aspect of this within your store. The
checking in with your partners and seeing how they're feeling
about it and having UM as many face to face
(21:13):
conversations as you can have and really really sticking by
each other is really important because Yeah, like I said,
these UM tactics are tried and true, they're effective, they're intimidating, UM,
and so you have to really supporting each other through
that and keep reminding each other like, no, there's a
reason we're doing this this, this is actually still a
(21:35):
good thing, you know, because on top of our jobs,
and then a lot of partners are in school or
they have families, like we already have a lot going on,
and then we have to go into work and be
reminded that our desire for a union is not valuable
to Starbucks, and so they're gonna make things harder by
(21:58):
doing all the things they're doing. Um. You have to
really really be there for each other through this process. Yeah,
I mean, that's, you know, solidarity one of the key
of the key tenants of this type of you know,
the type of organizing. Absolutely. I know Chris is a
(22:23):
pretty big union appreciator. I mean, I I like unions,
but but Chris, Chris really really really really enjoy. So
I'm wondering if you if you have anything, he likes
them so much, he'll he'll even like unionized coffee. He'll
be like this coffee still, it will it will good work, Chris.
(22:45):
Some of the some of the there's some storts in
Chicago that are unionizing, and I'm like, hmm, maybe maybe
you should check them out. Yeah, you should at least
at least check about and say like hi, it'd be like, yeah, great,
what's a great thing to do. Um, definitely go to
those stores, go up to the counter and offer you
or um order your coffee, and then ask them to
(23:06):
write like unions strong or we love unions as your name. Um,
because when the barisas are making the coffee and they
still like see that sticker come through, it's we really
love that, Chris. They have great tea there too, ice cream, Yeah,
the honey tea, it's really good. Or the chie likes
(23:29):
saying information though about like yeah we have there's finally
a store that's like somewhat near Los Angeles where I
am that that is announced they're unionizing, which is exciting, Like, okay, California,
way to join the party. Late but you know, it's
it's cool, go ahead. Yeah. One thing I'm interested in
(23:50):
is how how big is the shop, Like how many
people are sort of like, well, I'm not not in
the like, just how many people there like could potentially
join the union. I mean, anyone could. I think we
have about twenty. I could be so wrong, but I
(24:11):
think we have around twenty partners in our store right now. Um,
and yeah, any well, yeah, just about anybody could join that.
Not anyone who's salaried. Yeah, okay, but I mean that
seems that seems pretty common across all the different stores.
Is around that it's around like twenty union eligible people
(24:31):
per location. Seems roughly accurate based on the stuff I've
seen from you know, Seattle to Philadelphia to Boston to
Buffalo too, you know, all all places in between. And yeah,
so part part of part of like the actual more
organizational structure is a linked to Work as United. Yes,
part of the part of the Service Employees International Union
(24:53):
UM affiliate kind of a family of unions UM who's
kind of led the lad the campaign or you know,
has been part of the campaign UM to unionize the
you know, thousands of locations through the States and yeah.
I think around like eighty locations, including two of the
company's flagship ones inside Seattle and New York, have have
(25:16):
joined this this effort, and it does seem like every
day there's like more stores popping up. Who are who
are who are saying yeah, this is a good idea.
This is whether it be to you know, be like, yeah,
some of our equipment is old, and it's like, you know,
it causes like keep burns because it's not like maintenance properly,
(25:36):
or being like yeah, there's a lot of like sexual
harassment caused by like some like some like patrons that
never gets addressed by management um and or you know
saying like yeah, I may be deserved to be paid
more than fifteen dollars an hour um. With rent being
you know as high as as high as it is,
maybe we should be paying over twenty bucks an hour.
(25:57):
I don't know how everybody else is doing, but my
rent situation is interesting. So rent has been ballooning in
recent in recent months, even it's been it's been really
going up, which I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about
it at some point on the show here, but yeah,
like there's a lot of there's a lot of issues
that are being like, yeah, maybe people should be paid more,
(26:18):
people should be at the bargaining table. There's a lot
of things to address to make it a safer workplace,
to make it a workplace where you're more respected. Um.
And it's uh, it's really nice to see people saying, yeah,
I'm not gonna put up with the city more and
we can do something about it, because like there are
mechanisms to to do this, right, that's why it's happening.
(26:39):
So that's that's very uh, very exciting to see taking place.
It really is. And it you know, you make a
lot of great points and bring up a lot of
the benefits of having a union, and it just like
it just surprises me how anti union Starbucks is is
(27:00):
period um, because it's just it's like, I don't know, you, yeah,
you paint such a beautiful picture, because it is a
beautiful picture to have autonomy and um, respect and empowerment
in the workplace. You know, they they train us to
work through the lens of humanity, you know, by their words,
and uh, it's pretty humane to let people have a say,
(27:23):
a real stay in the workplace. You know. Yeah, I
think it kind of exposes that type of you know,
pretty pretty corporate language that formative. Yeah exactly, it's, um,
I am interested in like the other like kind of
union busting or soft union busting kind of stuff going
on even like before this website in terms of how
(27:45):
like manage like how like management has been responding, um,
and how more like like what like what like the
local responses to wind stores start talking about this. Yeah,
And and another fall up to that is I noticed
that COVID was mytioned on this on this website. Is
that being brought up within union busting at all? Or
(28:06):
is that brought I just it was like a huge
red flag for me that they used like well, we
helped your during COVID we were there for you, which
really did not. That's like that's like that's like that's
like abusive terminology. That is pretty manipulative to be like
we we helped you during a pandemic. It's it's like, well, yes,
(28:31):
as you should. Yeah, you're the place where I was employed.
I give something to you, you give something to me.
And yeah, and as I Twitter ranted in the comment,
you know, like with peace and love, we had to
beg to get our cafe closed, you know, like we
we like, it wasn't like we just uh cases rose
and they came in and said, hey, guys, we're gonna
(28:52):
close it. Like we had. We were calling and um
making a stink and I mean we were talking about striking,
but then remembered we're not unionized yet. We didn't but
uh yeah, I mean it was we Yeah, we were
really fed up. UM people sitting in there for hours
with their faces out, you know, as cases were rising.
(29:14):
So UM yeah, great point. That's really pretty manipulative because
like you should be helping us through covid. UM. That's
not like a that's not a benefit, that's just that's like, yeah,
it's not killing people. It's like should should be something
(29:36):
that's just kind of always there. UM, shouldn't shouldn't be
an extra, you know. Yeah. And I mean as far
as UM, you know, sort of local UM interference, I
guess I'll say UM. I do want to say UM.
In my case, our store manager, UM, I really care
(29:57):
about her. UM. I have a great working relationship with her.
I really respect her. She's done a lot of good
for our store. UM, and she's really just doing the
best she can having conversations with us. UM. She has
her opinions and feelings about it, and I just try
to listen to them, and she listens to mine. Um.
(30:21):
But there definitely Yeah, I mean as soon as we
filed for an election, we started actually as soon as
we started organizing, and they sort of caught wind. Um.
We started having barista meetings, which are as vague as
they sound, um, And people who had worked there longer
than me said, we've never had these before. Um, maybe once,
(30:45):
you know, in a few years. Um. So we started
having all these meetings and not even talking about the
union at first, but all of a sudden they wanted
to hear from us and fix things in the store
and and all this stuff and be super helpful and present.
And then there definitely just was a heightened corporate presence
(31:06):
in the store. Um, people we've never seen before coming
in like, hey, how are you doing? Want to talk?
It's like, no, you're a stranger, like all low to
talk to you. Um. So that was weird. Um. But yeah, yeah,
there's there's definitely definitely just a shift in presence. Um again,
any of these meetings and um, yeah, it's been interesting.
(31:30):
What what do you kind of how do you see
like the situation resolving like do you do you like
how how like do you have has also like, yeah,
what's like the state of of of your stores specifically? Yeah,
so we are on our way to an election. Um,
(31:51):
we've requested an election. Uh so we're really just like
in a waiting period for that. We don't know exactly
when it's gonna be. We've heard soon, um, but who
knows when that is? Um? We yeah, we have some
(32:12):
we we had to do a zoom hearing for some
of the legalities for things here in Massachusetts. That was interesting.
But yeah, so we're we're just waiting for the election
at this point. And the election is what will uh
you know, that's when we're going to cast our yes
or no vote, um, and we will find out whether
or not we're gonna unionize. And I think we will unionize.
(32:35):
It's looking that way. I'm confident, um, and I really
look forward to that. What do you think, um, Like,
what do you see is happening after the vote is done? Like, like,
assuming it is a vote yes, Like, how do you
think this will impact um working at the store going forward?
(32:58):
It's gonna be interesting and it's going to be an adjustment,
right because from the time that we vote and we
vote yes. Let's say we vote yes and we're going
to unionize. There is it could take a long time.
It could take a year. We don't know. It could
take more and less UM to get from that vote
(33:18):
to you know, what we refer to as the bargaining
table UM to negotiating a contract with Starbucks. UM. And
in that time there are things UM. And again, if
partners are listening, you can do your research on this
on the n l r B website. UM. There, you know,
there are things that will be UM different in that
(33:42):
waiting period. Right, So if if Starbucks decides to release
UM a nationwide UM spring raise, because why not we
love giving you raises, UM, we would be exempt from
that because we're in negotiations. Because we're in this sort
of in between spot. UM there there are little weird
(34:03):
things that we might have to just be aware of
no going in UM in that sort of interim uh yeah,
and then eventually, you know, those raises and any other
things that we've sort of been waiting on get brought
to the bargaining table. Yeah. I think this is an
important thing for people to understand when when you're doing
(34:24):
union organizing right is you know, you have this giant
push and you have like you have to have the
push to get to get either recognition or to get
this the National Labor Relations Board vote. But most unions
that go under go under in like before the first contract,
and you have to like that's that's something that you
know when when you when you talk to people who
(34:45):
who are the professionally you need organizers, they talked, they
talked about this constantly, just like you have to hold
it together during during that period between your first like
betwetween when you when your when when you get recognized
it when your vote ends that first contract. And it's
hard in a lot of ways, Yeah, because they thinks
we're talking about like management will do you know, they'll
(35:05):
they'll intensify the union busting because they're hoping the union
will still fall apart. But if you hold it together
and if you get that first contract your union, like
you know, you now have a union and you've basically
stabilized and at that point, like you now have a
seat at the table and you have to take your
seat the table and fight. Yeah, but it's a big
responsibility when when you say hold it together during that time,
(35:30):
do you do. You mean, like, um, just through those
changes and that interim and that sort of weird awkward phase,
like you have to like just hold it together like
mentally and just kind of power through it. Yeah. Well also,
I mean you have to, like you have to just
keep making sure everyone's involved, which is something that's difficult because, Yeah,
(35:51):
especially after sort of the initially because people have also
had like a job to do it in this entire time, right,
they're still they're still make and coffee, they're still making
a podcast, they're still doing whatever. Sover. Have you ever done?
This is sort of beside the point, but it's fun.
Have you guys ever done like the sixteen personalities personality assessment?
(36:14):
At some point? I've never done it. It's really fun.
I just did it for school, and it's the thing
that tells you, like, I'm an i n f J
TV and my thing is the advocate Sophie. What's yours?
You look like you had one ready to go. I
don't remember what it was, but I remember having to
do it like fifteen times in school. Yeah. I also
(36:38):
I also forget what I the one that I did
for when I was in school as well, But I
I brought it up because I'm thinking I want to
send it to my fellow organizers and be like, do
this and we can sort of highlight what each other's
strengths are, um and start playing into those because like
you were saying, Chris, like it really is a team effort,
(37:00):
and I think it only really works if you are
utilizing people and respecting people's strengths, you know, because not
everyone has the same strengths. Like, yeah, you might be
a kick as graphic designer, but like not everyone can
do that. You know, maybe they're better at hosting get togethers,
or they're better at writing emails or whatever. You know.
(37:24):
I think, yeah, playing to strengths is so important in
the long run because yeah, it can take a year
to get to the negotiating table, which which like is horrible,
Like that shouldn't be like it should it shouldn't be
that long. Um. And you know, tactics such as like specifically,
you know, raising wages around a unionization effort so that
(37:44):
people in the union don't get it. That is like
another form of union investing. Like that is like, don't
think they haven't thought that through, Like that is that
is part of that whole process. Being like, oh, yeah,
you could have a union or you can get higher
wages out Like that's like, that's that is part of
what's going on. It's because they want people to not
(38:04):
sign on to have long term benefits, so they're going
to offer these short term benefits. So like it really
is like because of how elongated the unionization process can be,
it gives a lot of time for people to get
burnt out. Um, and and combating that, like combating being
burnt out is one of the most important parts. And yeah,
it's it's really it's really challenging sometimes. Oh my gosh, absolutely,
(38:28):
I mean I love that conversation. I'm like a mental
health dweeb. Um, it's it's my it's what my my
podcast is called Your Messy Friend, and that's basically all
I talk about is mental health. And yeah, the burnout.
I mean, I'm recovering from burnout right now. You know, Um,
(38:48):
it's very real. You have to make sure that you know,
while you're taking care of everybody else and making these efforts,
like you have to make sure that you are checking
with yourself every a and making sure your needs are
being met because giving from an empty tank does not
last long. As I'm sure you guys know, yeah, if
(39:11):
you uh, if if you're, if you're, if the water
in your espresso machine is out, then nothing can flow
through to make the exactly see. It was what an
amazingly crafted metaphor. I just not tortured it at all anyway.
(39:41):
So what is the like turnover rate at the store? Like,
like how how quickly are people coming in and out
of jobs? And how has that been affecting organizing? The
cool question. Um, we haven't had a ton of people
leave since I got there, I mean, and I definitely
(40:03):
I can pretty confidently say none of those had to
do with unionizing. Um, it was all for just like
different reasons. Um, we've had quite a few more people
come in recently, and I would say that, Um, I mean,
it's it's weird because our current store manager, uh was great.
(40:23):
She was hired around the same time that we really
started amping up union stuff. And you know, it's almost
unfortunate because I think she thought it was it was
about her, and it just so wasn't you know. Um,
but yeah, so it's who knows if it was just
(40:44):
because she was there now or because of the union
stuff or both. But uh, they did start hiring quite
a few more people, um around the time that we
started organizing, And yeah, I mean it's you have to
walk this fine line when you have new people coming in.
Of course, you want to get to them and give
them your info um or at least give them resources
(41:05):
to look into before corporate gets to them. UM. But
then you also they're they're learning a new job. It's
really fast paced and overwhelming, Like you have to be
careful not to totally overwhelm them either. I mean that
that's really something I've just tried to keep in mind
(41:26):
throughout the whole process. Is like when my friend Tyler
approached me, I was like, I don't know what this is.
I don't I don't know if this is necessary for me.
And now I'm on the committee, you know, so you
know what I mean. Like, it's that thing where I'm like, Okay,
if I could be convinced, maybe anyone can. All right,
(41:54):
is there um any direct action that people who are listening,
or any called action you have for us that we
can to our listeners or links or anything that you
think would be useful for our people to know. That's
a cool idea. Yeah, thanks, Um, Like we mentioned before
if you want to just like stop by your local
(42:15):
unionizing Starbucks and get a coffee with the name you know,
unionized or union strong. That like that in person support,
especially when your first organizing, is really really helpful. Even
just stopping by to drop off a card or say hey,
good luck with unionizing. UM, that really means a lot. UM.
(42:38):
You can follow SB Workers United on Instagram and Twitter
and just engage with us, UM reach out if you
need info about how to organize. The people on Instagram
or so, I mean on all the platforms are just
like so on top of responding UM and uh, website,
(43:02):
I think we have a website? Would I would assume so,
I would assume at this point. Yeah, I mean we
have a pretty pop in Instagram and Twitter. But UM, yeah,
I don't. I don't think I'm forgetting anything. I think
that's that's about it. UM and just making noise on
online is also really helpful. You know, I love when
(43:24):
people comment on Starbucks posts and they're like, yeah, how
about unions though, yeah, nion. The website is s B
Workers United dot org, affiliated with the Workers United and
the Starbucks know. I think Effort, which has ways to
donate or by by merch in support of the union
(43:47):
and that kind of stuff, which funds I'll go to
the go to the campaign and you know, just in
case it wasn't clear, Like and this is something you'll
hear from Starbucks. Is all of this about the third
party and Workers United is going to do this us
and that, blah blah blah. We essentially, you know, we
work with that. They promote our cause, you know what
(44:08):
I mean, they're here to support our mission and our goals.
I mean, you'd be amazed by how much partners do
for this, you know, so much. But we we do
the nitty gritty every day, communicating with each other. We're
communicating nationally now we have a platform for that. UM
(44:29):
and yeah, it's really cool. And so like they are,
they're kind of like, I don't know, the supporting beams
of of everything we're doing. You know, it's us, yeah,
but like the actual makeup of it definitely is with
Starbucks employees, you know, and all the people I've been
in like Twitter conversations with our d m s who
are involved. It's like, yeah, like everyone who's like actively
(44:50):
involved in doing it all has worked at Starbucks before.
Um and still and still are like it is. It
is definitely being led by the workers. Um and yeah
that's really great and really crucial. UM. Do you have
any do you have any other plugables either for yourself
or for yeah anything else plug your pod? Yeah? Thanks guys, UM,
(45:13):
this was really fun. Thank you for having me on.
I love podcasting. UM, so yeah, I mentioned sp Workers
United on Instagram and Twitter. Make sure you give them
a follow, follow Barista's you find along the way. Who
are you know speaking up about this? Show them your support. UM.
My podcast is called your Messy Friend. You can find me.
(45:37):
I think wherever you get your podcasts definitely Spotify That's
what I use. UM and yeah that's about it. Well,
thank you so much Kayleie for joining us today. You
talked about Starbucks and unions. UM can follow us online
on Twitter, Instagram, at Happened Here pod and cool Zone
Media and I think that does it? Does it for us?
(45:59):
Can't wait for y'all to win? Yeah, absolutely can't. Can't
can't wait for you guys to win. As soon as
as soon as Portland locations start going, I'll definitely go
in and support, But until then I will make coffee
alone in my my my my lonely, my, my lonely
espresso machine. Um, but yeah, thank you, thank you so
(46:20):
much for for coming on to talk. Thank you, thank
you so much. It could Happen here as a production
of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool zone Media,
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources
(46:42):
for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone
media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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