April 16, 2025 • 40 mins
Gare and James discuss a meeting between Trump and El Salvador President Nayib Bukele on expanding CECOT style prisons to hold US citizens and immigrants.
Sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogLw7I2BWO0
https://documentedny.com/2025/04/14/ice-bukele-cecot-tren-de-aragua-el-salvador-new-york-deported/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is it could happen here. I am not going
to El Salvador. It's not gonna happen, no way, No,
thank you, mister President. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by
James Stout.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
Garrison.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're here to talk about possibly the most upsetting thing
I've seen in American politics in like the past six
months to maybe even I don't know viscerally had hit
me for like the past few years. Like yet what
happened on Monday in the Oval Office was is kind
of the most black pilt I've ever been, which is
not a great way to start an episode.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah, it like it made me feel like I found
twenty twenty three very hard, like going out and seeing
people freezing in the desert and then coming home and
some by knee ice cream on the on the timeline,
but like this was different. This was so like blatant.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
There's like a level of like intentional depravity that you're
reminded of or more blatantly so and.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Like Bukes trolling of yes everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So we're gonna be talking about an Oval Office meeting
between President Trump and El Salvador President Bukelea. I guess
I could learn his first name, Naive Buke. There you go.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
You know he's Palestinian Salvadorre.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
No, that's an emam.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I don't even have time for that.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
It's just just fucking I'm sorry. If anyone's driving it
has had an accident upon hearing that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So, as you probably know, recently, the United States government
has sent upwards of three hundred people immigrants to the
L Salvador Terrorism Confinement Center, This prison black site that
people never return from. I guess I could point to
(01:54):
for a pop culture reference, which feels a little bit
in bad taste, but you can point to like the
prison in the TV show and Or as being a
very comparable facility, frankly, except they turn off the lights
in and Or they do not turn off the lights
in Seacott lights around all the time. They put ten
to twenty people per sell. It's pretty bad. Jameson has
(02:15):
done episodes on Seacott in the past, will probably keep
doing more.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
The lights thing, by the way, was a specific policy
change by Bouquele. There was a particularly violent weekend in
El Salvador, and as a result, he stopped letting people
who were detained for gang crimes go outside and stopped
building windows into the prison and just put the lights
on because a way of punishing, I guess the gangs
(02:39):
by punishing the people who are detained there.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, they can't go outside. They stay in their cell
for almost twenty four hours a day. They might occasionally
get thirty minutes outside, but that's not even confirmed because
no one's even allowed inside to see what's going on
in there. And we've sent upwards of three hundred immigrants there,
the majority, vast majority of which have no criminal record.
Even if you do have a criminal record, being renditioned
(03:03):
to a foreign a foreign prison camp is still bad.
But this is something that Trump hopes to expand on greatly,
and they are currently defending their ability to do so
in the court since it has been learned that a
few people sent there may have been partially sent by accident,
but the Trump administration is refusing to return these people
(03:26):
and is instead still trying to convince the public that
these are dangerous terrorists that deserve to be disappeared. So
let's kind of start with that main case. The case
that's receiving the most public attention right now is of
a Maryland man named Kilmayor Abrego Garcia, who's a subject
of a district court case that has been sent up
(03:48):
to the Supreme Court and then sent back to the
district court on whether this man can be returned home
to his US citizen wife and child. And then on
Monday April fourteenth, the Oval Office, meeting President Boukela said
that he will not return this Maryland immigrant with protected
legal status back to the United States, who Ice admits
(04:10):
was sent to Seacot based on a quote unquote administrative error, said, quote,
how can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?
Of course I'm not going to do it. The question
is preposterous unquote. The Al Salvador president also balked at
the idea of releasing Garcia from Seacott since he can't
have a quote unquote terrorist free in his country, lying
(04:32):
about Garcia being a criminal. I am going to play
a few clips in this episode because I think it
is necessary to listen to these people actually say the
words that they are saying, in the tone that they're
saying them, and the exact phrasing on these I think
is actually pretty important right now. So unfortunately, you are
gonna have to hear the voices of a few people
who you might not rather hear from, including the president
(04:55):
of El Salvador. So I'll play this first.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Clips can President big on this?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Do you plan to return him?
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Well? Yeah, I'm suppose you're suggested that a smuggle terrorist
in today United States?
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right?
Speaker 6 (05:09):
How can I smuggle How can I return him to
the latter It's like I smuggle him into the United
States or whether you do, of course.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I'm not gonna do it. It's like, let mean that
the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle the terrorist
in today United States?
Speaker 6 (05:23):
I don't have the power to return him to the
United States inside. Yeah, but I'm not releasing I mean,
we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country.
We just turned the murder capital of the world to
the safest country of the Western hemisphere, and he want
us to go back into the releasing criminals so we
can go back to being the murder capital of the world.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And that's good. That's not going to be happened. But
they'd love to have a criminal, you know, with schedule.
I mean, I mean there's there's a fascination. Yeah, these
are chick people.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
It's just insane, Like the whole pretend any serious engagement
with reality there, it's just gone yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And they're both like miming that neither of them have
the ability to make any kind of deal between each
other to send people back, even though they have the
ability to make a deal to send people there.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, as they sit in the same room.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
The whole time Bekayley's talking, Trump has like this, like
a growing smirk on his face. As Bekayley's talking about
this preposterous notion of smuggling a US immigrant back into
the United States despite the Supreme Court order to facilitate
the return of this immigrant back into the country. The
whole smuggling framing is obviously absurd, with him saying like
(06:37):
I don't have the power to return him to the
United States. All he needs to do is release him
from Seacott and the US can fly him back right
just as we flew him to El Salvador. Like the
two heads of state are sitting right next to each other.
They could agree to do this at any time, But
now everyone's pretending that that suddenly they don't have the
power to undo what they seemingly had the power to
(06:59):
do in the first place.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like Bookeley has ruled and we're going to do a
whole episode of and like his rise to power and
then his use of power. But like he's ruled under
a state of exception for years in Elsabador, which allows
him to detain people without warrants, without trials, right, and
like it's that state of exception that is now the
norm there. And that's kind of what he seems to
(07:21):
be referring to, right, Like like we just get to
lock people up. Why would I not do that?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
In effect, they are arguing that every single human being
that is sent to Seacot by the United States is
unable to ever leave the prison alive. Yeah, Like that's
basically they're saying, because they're saying both both parties, both
Trump and Bukel, are unable to have someone who's been
sent there returned. So they're just they're just saying like
no one's able to do anything, Like they're just stuck
(07:48):
there until they die, and like this is part of
the design of Seacot. Uh, the person who runs like
the Seacot like security has said that they do not
intend in any person ever being released from cat. You
are not designed to get out. You are stuck there forever.
No one's ever left there. Yeah, it's just where you
get disappeared, and that's that's all. That's all that it is.
(08:10):
And I think part of why they're so unwilling to
send Garcia back is because then you have someone like
the first person who's ever like gotten out and can
talk about what it's actually like in there, when you
don't have like Christinome and like propaganda cameras pointed at
at the prison bars.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, Bukela is very redicent to really to anyone for
that reason, and like there are plenty of valigations and
like I think looks like Time magazine has publicist is
not huguely controversial that he made deals with gangs in
the past in elsabul or right to get them to
reduce the murder rate, and like he certainly wouldn't like
to hear that testify to certainly not in the United
(08:46):
States court, right, So, like he doesn't want people to
be released from there either, Like you said, they don't
want anyone to be able to go to any international
human rights courts and testify as to what happened to
them there. So it's kind of in his interest to
never have anyone be released. It's not just also, I
guess like in his interest, he's also being paid right
(09:06):
twenty thousand dollars per detainee per year by the United
States right now, so he also has a financial interest
in keeping people in there.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Even this per year deal makes now kind of makes
the zero sense because both of them are arguing that
there's no way to send anyone back, right, So, like
it's not that it's even like, oh, they're only going
to be there for one year. It's like they're just
they're just there, and like who knows if they're gonna
like still be alive by the time that some of
these people would be able to get out, whether that's
(09:36):
through the miraculous Donald trumpetpeachment of twenty twenty six which
will never happen, or like however, like these people are
just they are to stuck there because he's not going
to release them into his country. We are seemingly unable
to take anyone back from there, I think.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I mean unwilling right, Like the US is theoretically able.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's argued that we're unable. As people get into more Yeah,
after this at break.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Okay, we are back.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
One thing that we've seen across the Trump administration the
past eighty days or so. Something that we saw very
evident in this meeting is that whenever a single person
is asked a question about the outrageous, possibly illegal, possibly not,
but just immoral or evil things that are being done,
the first instinct is always to pass the buck onto
(10:35):
someone else. We saw this a lot with Signalgate, how
it was always someone else's faults. No single person could
get like hammered down of being like, okay, you are
the person that's going to be like accountable for this.
And throughout this Oval Office meeting, eventually they started taking
questions from journalists and reporters and propagandists who are in
the room. And you saw this trend of you know,
if someone asks Trump about what's going on, he passes
(10:57):
the buck to Stephen Miller, who passes the buck to
who then passes the buck to Mark Rubio. And it's
like this big circle of like everyone's just talking around
each other because no one really has the authority to
speak on what's going on or how to fix this
problem because they don't see it as a problem. So
instead they just talk in a circle. And I think
Miller was one of the most effective at this and unfortunately,
(11:19):
we're going to play the longest clip in this episode,
just under two minutes from Stephen Miller, where he lays
out the Trump admins thought process and strategy behind what
they are doing. And I apologize for this, but it
is useful to hear from Himmler two.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
So here here we go, with respect to you.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
He's a citizen of El Salvador, so it's very arrogant,
even for American media to suggest that we would even
tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizens as
a starting point. As two immigration courts found that he
was a member of Mster Tank. When President Trump declared
MS thir Team to be a foreign terrorist organization, that
meant that he was no longer eligible under federal law,
(12:03):
which I'm sure you know you're very familiar with, the
iona that he was no longer eligible for any form
of immigration relief in the United States. So he had
a deportation order that was valid, which meant that under
our law he's not even allowed to be present in
the United States and had to be returned because of
the foreign terrorist designation. This issue was then by district
(12:25):
court judge completely inverted and a district court judge tried
to tell the administration that they had to kidnap a
citizen of El.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Salvador and fly back here.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
That issue was raised to the Supreme Court, and the
Supreme Court said the District court order was unlawful and
its main components were reversed nine zero, unanimously stating clearly
that neither Secretary of State nor the President could be
compelled by anybody to forcibly retrieve a citizen of El
Salvador from Al Salvador, who again is a member of
(12:56):
MS thirteen, which is I'm sure you understand, rapes, little girl, girls, murders,
woman murder's children, is engaged in the most barbaric activities
in the world. And I can promise you if he
was your neighbor, you wouldn't move right away, So you
don't think.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And what was r and the Supreme coach safe was
at nine to nothing. Yes, it was a nine zero
in our favor, in our favor against.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
The Juici Court ruling saying that no court has the
power to the telele foreign policy function of the United States.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
As PAM said, the rulers solely stated that if this individual.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
El Salvador sole distress was set back.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
To our country that we could deport him a set
in the top.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
No version of this.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Legally ends up with an ever living.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Here because he is a citizen of Al Savador, that
is the president of Al Sadidor.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
Your question about for the court can only.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Be directed to Tennant.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So there's a lot there. Yeah, I think I'm going
to start with I can promise you if he was
your neighbor, you would move right away. And I think
that is really the heart of what the Strump administration
is is doing, Like it's appealing to this most basic
like suburban crime, panic, fear, racism of well, if he
(14:09):
was your neighbor, you wouldn't want him living next to.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
You, Yeah, like a vagos neighborhood kind of.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Well, just completely lying about like the context of this
case with you Miller saying it's arrogant suggest that we,
the most powerful country in the world, are used to
be before the tariffs can tell El Salvador how to
handle its citizens, falsely claiming that immigration courts deemed him
a member of MS thirteen, which just is not true,
(14:36):
talking about kidnapping him from Seacott to return him to
the United States, as if Ice didn't just kidnap hundreds
of people with no criminal records and send them to
a foreign goo lug and then also lied about about
the Supreme Court ruling, saying they found the district court
order to return to Garcia unlawfel and grossly mischaracterizing the
scope of what the Supreme Court ruling was and how
(14:56):
it was sent back to the district court to work
with the details on facilitate the return actually means. And again,
I think like the one of the most telling parts
is how he ends by saying, quote, no version of
this ever ends up with him living here, And yeah,
like they're gonna look for any any way to like
(15:17):
make this test case to work, right and if and
if they if they can do this to someone with
protected legal status, who is not a who's not a terrorist,
who is not an actual MS thirteen gang member, right,
this is this is kind of ideal for them because
that means they can paint anybody as as a foreign
policy threat enough to be sent to a foreign goolag.
Then at the very end of the clip, he passes
the buck off to to Bouquetlight to have to have
(15:40):
him answer this question again perfectly laying out their strategy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
There's a lot to break down in what military It's
also just kind of interesting cambillary is like amongst the press,
He's not one of the people like sat on the
couch is supposed to be giving the press conference. Right,
he just kind of wades in too. I guess like
like offer this opinion and kind kind of like be
the kind of embassy of this of their response, I
guess in a sense, I think crucially, like Abergo Garcia's
(16:08):
protection was from being returned to El Salvador, right, because
he had been harassed by gang members when leaving El
Salvador and when living in El Salvador.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
He's lived in the States since twenty eleven, and he
left El Salvador to flee harassment and abuse from gang members.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah, the gangs that he's been accused of being a
part of. But like it then follows that, like it
would be legal for them to deport him to a
third country, right, and that is the path that they've
followed with all the Venezuelan migrants. Right, They've accused him
of being members of Trend de Ragua. I have not
seen a compelling case made that any of them are yet.
(16:45):
I'm sure people from Trend de Ragua have come to
this country, but they have not provided any evidence that
the people they have sent to say God, are those people.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No, Like we've had like fourteen people are like accused
of some kind of like violent crime like murder or rape,
and in the other like two hundred and seventy five
do not have a criminal record whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Yeah, and the bulk of this is relying on some
kind of idea that they have entirely created from fiction,
that they are tattooing practices when one entered the raga.
And for them, right, even if they can't be returned
to Venezuela, they feel that they have this endraum which
is okay, we'll send them to a Salvador. But for
the Salbadarians, that's a different question, right, And that is
what they're trying to find here, And that is worrying
(17:25):
because the case here that is getting the most publicity,
that seems to be the one that the Supreme Court
has taken up is about the Salbadaran man. And I
hope that doesn't mean that like the ship has sailed
for the Venezuelans, right that essentially, Yeah, No, like they
don't have a case because that was the vast bulk
of them. I think there was only like sixty Salbadrean
(17:45):
citizens and the rest Venezuelans, no one.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Hundreds of people have been like forgotten in this After
Miller's rant there, Mark Rubio jumped in to state that, quote,
no court in the United States has the right to
conduct the foreign policy of the United stins States unquote.
And Steven Miller hopped back in to talk about this
Supreme Court case that they're falsely saying they won nine
(18:08):
to zero, which is not how that case went, and
they start talking more broadly about what can be allowed
if it has to do with the foreign policy of
the United States, and how the courts don't have the
ability to intervene in that process.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
No, the foreign policy of the United States is conducted
by the President of the United States, not by a court,
and no court in the United States has.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
A right to conduct the foreign policy of the United States.
It's that simple end of story. And that's what mister
Preme Court held.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
By the way, has Barbara fort the Suterpeini Court said
exactly what Marco said, that no court has the authority
to compel the foreign policy function the United States. We
want a case nine zero, and people like CNN are
portraying it as a loss as usual because they want
foreign terrorists in the country who kidnap women and children.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Part of what I find so disturbing about this idea
of you know, no habeas corpus, no due process if
you aren't on foreign soil is that like this idea
of the courts having no jurisdiction over foreign policy decisions
means that as long as you whether you're a citizen,
whether you're a permanent resident to document or undocumented immigrant,
(19:12):
as long as you are forcedly removed from the United
States soil, your rights and your due process has been forfeit,
and the US has neither the obligation nor sometimes the
ability to return you to US soil if that is
their foreign policy interest. And this is such a troubling
broad concept that the portions of the courts are kind
(19:32):
of allowing them to claim right now, and the complete
removal of due process is like slowly getting encroached upon
at first with undocumented immigrants and green card holders, but
as we will see in the next section, they are
also absolutely going to be targeting US citizens.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Yeah, I think like we should just point out obviously
the court is not conducting the foreign policy of the
United States. It's ruling on the legality of the action
taken by the press, which is exactly what it's supposed
to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And as it relates to your rights for due process
if you are in the United States.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, Like every single US person, right, US person
would be anybody who resides in the US, be they
documented or done, documented, migrant, citizen, what have you like,
has a stake in this.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We're gonna go on break and then come back to
discuss the expansion of the sea Cott detention program and
the possible targeting of US citizens.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So on April seventh, a few weeks ago, while on
Air Force One, President Trump fild reporters that he would
be quote unquote honored for the President of Al Salvador
to take a US citizens quote unquote American grown and
born criminals and put them in sea Cott, the Terrorism
Confinement Center prison black Site, saying quote why should it
(21:01):
stop just at people that cross the border illegally unquote.
A few days later, the White House Presecretary reiterated that
this is something that Trump is discussing both publicly and privately,
and later during the April fourteenth Oval Office meeting, Trump
said that if Salvador was to build more of these
torture mega prisons, the United States would quote unquote help
(21:23):
them out. If the Trump administration could disappear more American
immigrants and US citizens to these prison black sites, well, I.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Pay for those facieties to be opened a few once
we're going to be built, I'd do something. We'd help
them out.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
We help them think great facilities, very strong facilities, and.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
They don't play games. I'd like to go step further.
I mean, I say I said it to Pam. I
don't know what the laws are. We always have to
obey the laws. But we also have homegrown criminals that
push people into.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the
head with a baseball bat when they're not looking.
Speaker 8 (22:01):
That are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in
the group of people to get them out of the country.
But you'll have to be looking at the laws on
that state.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So this is just the start of a long process
that is going to be deeply troublesome and worrying. And
again like this is something that they keep talking about.
I think they're still looking for some kind of legal justification,
or they're looking for something that maybe, if not allows
for this, explicitly prohibits this in a way that they
(22:36):
can't get around.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, did you notice he called out Miller. He said,
you have to look at the laws and the Steve
obviously Miller is not the attorney general.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
He also did mention Attorney General Pambondi. Pambondi, Yeah, who's
also looking into this option right now?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
But Miller is often credited with being the kind of
mastermind between behind Title forty two, right, which was an
extremely obscure piece of public health law that was them
mobile by the first Trump administration to immediately return migrants
to Mexico without giving them their right to it an
asylum hearing, right, And like that's what I'm wondering if
they're going for again, Like Steve Miller has been very
(23:12):
good at this, at finding obscure justifications in the United
States federal law for shit that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think this is why they're definitely trying to stretch
this foreign policy claim as far as they can that
if it's if it's outside US soil, there's a limited
way US courts can actually interfere or undo things that
have already been done. And again, like the idea that
we're going to like fund the construction of even more
of these El Salvador mega prisons just to house American
(23:41):
grown and born criminals as well as immigrants, like we're
just funding like goolog camps on foreign soil to send
the undesirables to. And no matter how much Trump talks
about how we're oldly going to send quote unquote like
American criminals there, as we've seen with seacots so far. Like, no,
(24:01):
like the majority of people they are sending do not
have criminal criminal histories. I don't think anyone can trust
the Trump administration's definition of what isn't isn't criminal to
this extent anymore. Later in the same meeting, Trump reiterated
the same idea about sending you a citizens who his
administration deems criminals to this foreign black site. Here's another clip.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
This is all question on a clarification.
Speaker 9 (24:28):
You mentioned that you're open to supporting individuals that aren't
foreign aliens for our criminals.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
To Al Salvador. Does that include potentially US citizens?
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Fully naturalized immrated if they're criminals, and if they hit
people with baseball bats over the head that happened to
be ninety years old, and if if they rape eighty
seven year.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Old women in Coney Island, Brooklyn, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Why do you think there's a special category of person.
They're as bad as anybody that comes in. We have
bad ones too, and I'm all for it. We have
others sort of negotiating with two. But no, it's if
it's if it's a home grown criminal, I have no problem.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
He's really obsessed with baseball bats thing. I don't quite
know what that's about.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It seems like a specific case that he's referring to.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Maybe it's something he remembers like thirty years ago that
it really got stuck in his head. Right, But also
later he says that they're negotiating with other countries to
send US citizens to not just El Salvador.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, I mean they've sent migrants, third country migrant to
Panama before, right, and detain them there. Honduras I believe
is building like a prison that's not dissimilar to Secord.
Like I'm be guessing this will be their sort of
way of courting allies in the hemisphere because they'll sort
of pay them a relatively large amount in order to
(25:54):
attempt to offshore people they don't like.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, and again, like as we've seen the past few
years and increasingly so now, the effort to label like
activists or people who are vocally opposed to the United
States foreign policy, the United States and the State of
Israel deeming them terrorists and then by extension, if you
charge them with the crime, then criminals. The idea that
(26:17):
they can be housed in a place like Sea cot
now with very very limited to no due process. The
whole due process question is still very up in the
air for how they're going to handle that aspect. But
you can't just take this as like, oh, you know
that that's just Trump talking, like, no, this is this
is something they really want to do. And it's like
(26:38):
one of the freakiest things that I've seen in like
domestic US politics in a long time. Earlier, Trump was
recorded half whispering to Makayla telling him that El Salvador
needs to build five more Sea Cought style torture prisons
to house US citizens, as Trump says homegrown criminals. Bukeley
(26:58):
replies that they will have enough room, and then the
entire Oval office laughs.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, they said homegrowns.
Speaker 8 (27:07):
Next, the home growns, you get a build about five
more places.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen before. Yeah, talking
about homegrowns. Their next got to build five more places. Oh,
we have enough space. Everyone laughs. And then Trump shows
off the new gold frames for the portraits in the
Oval Office.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Yeah, it's like a dinner party joke for them. It
might just be worth noting that, like every totalitarian regime
has housed its dissidents outside of the imperial core. Right,
like like Germany totally did this in the East, right,
Russia sent people to Siberia for Russia, so sobet Union.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Creating creating these like stateless zones where like the regular
laws of your of your like fatherland state do not apply, right.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And where the horrors are so far from the populace
that the populist can't really grasp them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
No, this is like elementary school stuff. It says like
like the first thing you learn about is concentration camps
and gulags, and how that's like this symbol of evil
and now it's something you laugh about in the Oval
Office to send home growns to five disappearing torture camps.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Yeah, and like, just to be like even clear, I
guess what distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison is
that there is no due process right. People are sent
there because of who they are, not because of what
they did.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Like if you're a Venezuelan man who may or may
not have a tattoo.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, like the way are I don't know what it
will take for some people to realize what's happening here.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And like the president of El Salvador is so on
board for this.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean he doesn't hide from that reputation, right,
he embraces it. His Twitter for a while had world's
Coolest dictator in the bio. I don't know if it
still does, like.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And like both him and Trump have openly aligned themselves
with quote unquote nationalism and nationalists. They're openly saying this.
Trump said dictator on day one. That wasn't just a
rhetorical device, that was literal. This is what he's doing.
The Alabita president told Trump, you have three hundred and
fifty million people to liberate, but to liberate three hundred
and fifty million people, you have to imprison some. And
(29:16):
you follow that up by saying that he is eager
to help with that, And I fat.
Speaker 10 (29:21):
Mister President, you have three hundred and fifty million people
to liberate it. But to liberate three hundred and fifty
million people, you have to prison some.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
That's the way it works, right. You cannot just you know,
free the.
Speaker 10 (29:33):
Criminals and think.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Crimes are going to go down magically. Have to imprisoned them.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
So you can liberate three hundred and fifty million Americans
that are asking for the end of crime and the
end of terrorists.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Many can be done, I mean, if you're doing it already.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
So I'm really happy to be here, honored any anger
to help this whole.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like liberation through imprisonment thing is elementary school stuff here.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
You don't have to have a pH in the history
of the nineteen thirties to have someone tell you that,
like liberation of the chosen nation by purging of the
undesirables is fascist shit. But like I'm here with one
to tell you if that's what you need, you know,
like this is textbook stuff, like Garrison's saying, like this
is not debatable, Like I know, we spent the last
four years debating is Trump a fascist or not? I
(30:20):
don't think that matters hugely, right, like this is a
fascist thing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's so much more disturbing that now, according to like polls,
like half around half the population maybe a little bit
less just agree with the current way that deportations are
happening and Trump's immigration policy like on a completely like
flat basis. And if you spend any time on on
X the everything app, watching videos of of these press conferences,
it's full of people just like cheering this on completely,
(30:46):
like completely blankly.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I think that's a very skewed sample of people who
totally paid for Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Of course, of course, but like the number.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Of people, Yeah, it's real humans saying like these are.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Real people who just just completely completely blankly think this
is a this is this is a net good and
like this is those people are unreachable. You cannot come
back from that, like you is, there is no coming
back from that if you believe that the way depretations
are currently happening is fair, just and right, Like I
cannot understand you as a human anymore. That is so
(31:19):
like divorced and like alien.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah, you've gone past the point of no return, right like.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Liberals who like shield the who like shield their eyes
from like the horrors at the border. Like, I don't
agree with that, but in some ways I can understand it.
The open like cheering on of this right is like
a whole it's a whole other level.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Yeah, it's not like I can't bear to see it.
I'm gonna ignore it so it will cause me to
confront the no the contradictions. It's I'm seeing it and
watch again, and I think it's fucking great.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The last thing I'm gonna I'm gonna play here a
scene and reporter asked Trump if he would obey a
Supreme Court order to return someone to the United States.
Instead of answering this question, Trump attacked the reporter and
complained about how she wasn't praising him for deporting criminals.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
You said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed
to be returned, that you would abide by that. You
said that on Air Force one just a few days ago,
and they said that it must facilitating.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Why didn't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're
keeping criminals out of our country?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Why can't you just say that, why do you.
Speaker 8 (32:18):
Go over and over and that's why nobody watches you anymore?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You know you have no credibility.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Please go ahead, Yeah, mad, very textbook authoritarian like blanket
stuff like there's there's nothing to like commentate about that.
It just is what it is. I guess we do
have some breaking news because we're recordings on Tuesday. James
wanna want to, impossibly five minutes or less, fill us
(32:43):
in about the the update from the from the District
Court on Garcia's case since it was sent back to
the to the District Court from the Supreme Court last
week regarding his possible facilitated return to the United States.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Right, so much of this has hinged over what facies means. Right, Like,
they found the legal concept that they can argue ad
nauseum and in this case it's the word facilitate. The
DOJ didn't present a new information today, but we see
that there's some hopeful things on a district court judge
and then it kind of all goes up in flames.
But I think genius is x I and I S
(33:20):
is how the name is spelled. I believe it's genius
said that every day that he's there is a day
of further irreparable harm. And she talks about the process
being at the roots of the constitution. Right, She's ordered
for like two weeks more of discovery, which is going
to mean that both sides have more time to repair
their cases. Right. She wants people to testify in front
(33:40):
of the court. She is so the administration has argued
that facilitating his return would consist of them allowing him
to enter the United States if Buke released him, and
possibly providing a flight for that to happen, but not
crucially ensuring his release from SECOD. Right, and so anything
else going to that doesn't matter. Ginis said that like
(34:03):
their interpretation of the word flies in the face of
the plain meaning of the word. Quote, when a wrong
fear removed individual is uh. And then I'm adding to
the quote here I guess or context. She means, when
a wrong fe remove individual is taken outside the US,
it's not so cut and dried that all you have
to do is remove obstacles domestically. She also said, quote
to the Department of Justice here, you made your jurisdictional arguments,
(34:25):
you made your venue arguments, you made your arguments on
the merits you lost This is now about the scope
of the remedy. Right, this is a case that Miller
is claiming they want that's pretty unequivocal for a justice. However,
she does not seem to think that it is within
her power to request his return from El Salvador. So
(34:46):
she's calling for things to move quickly. Right, they want
to conduct depositions about twenty third of April, she said,
quote council vacations, council over appointments. I'm usually pretty good
about it. Not this time. I'm going to be available
if you need to do it odd hours or weekends.
That's what I'm talking about. Like anything short of a
(35:07):
judge saying you have to go to SECOT, remove him
from the cell, put him on the plane, and bring
him back to America is going to be interpreted by
the Trump administration to mean that they don't have to
do that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, they're going to weasel their way around it, the
same way you heard Steven Miller weasel his way around
every question, and with with truth being used as a
as a flexible medium. Yeah, to shape a sculpture of
their choosing. And like they've done that, right, the word facilitate.
I think most people who are first language English speakers
have a fairly good grasp with what that means, and
it doesn't mean like remove barriers domestically, that's what they've
(35:39):
gone for. The only way that he is getting out
it's a majority Supreme Court decision that is extremely explicit
that directs the Trump administration to go to El Salvadore
and remove him from that prison. I haven't seen anything
to indicate that we're getting that anytime soon. And as
the judge said, right every day he's there, he's a
(36:00):
reparable harm is done to him. And that's where we're
at right now, right with people arguing over the definition
of a word, as hundreds of people are locked up
having done nothing wrong in a giant torture prison. And
this is not the only person who we believe was
quote unquote mistakenly sent other supporting today coming out of
(36:20):
documented New York.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Yeah, good outlet.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
By the way, a father of a nineteen year old
legal legal immigrant from Brooklyn. This nineteen year old with
no tattoos, was kidnapped off the streets of New York.
The quote from his father reads, quote the officers grabbed
him and two other boys right at the entrance to
our building. One said, no, he's not the one, like
(36:46):
they were looking for someone else.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
One officer to be clear, correct, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
The other officer said take him anyway, unquote. And now
this father, exactly a month later, is still looking for
his miss son, who is disappeared into a Nel Salvador
torture prison.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, Jesus. Like I've said before on this show, like
one of the things that I learned in the Darien
Gap was how much people can care about their kids,
and like this shit that I saw people do to
ensure that kids had a better life, like broke my
heart in a way. That war hasn't that like anything
else I've seen in my life hasn't. And it's like
(37:26):
honestly really hard for me to hear stuff like that
and and like not react just being really sad or
really angry, like it's fucking brutal.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Things are looking a lot more grim in my mind
than they were when we recorded that Should You Leave
the United States episode. I still think the things I
said there I stand by, and I stand by the
only recommendation I have is to create options for yourself,
and I think those options should be created as soon
(37:56):
as possible, especially if you're sittingship is a topic of
debate according to the United States government, But even that
will not keep you safe, as we've as we've talked
about it today.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
And your options include creating networks to take care of
one another. Right, Like, the things that will probably affect
more of you than direct state violence are economic downturns,
are recessions, right, things like this, like those are things
that you can take care of one another through, and
like you should plan to do that too. You should
(38:28):
you should think about how you're going to pay your bills,
how you're going to feed each other, how you're going
to take care of your medical needs. Because I don't
think that the world is going to want to keep
doing business with the country that acts like this, and
both economically and in terms of its conduct towards migrants.
So like, your plans don't have to be to leave,
(38:51):
like your plans should also include what to do if
things get really bad, like in an economic sense. I'm
not going to tell you what that means, but it's
all we've already talked about, raids, mutual aid, It's all
the basic preparedness stuff that is not as big and
scary as leaving the country, but is nonetheless like vital.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
We will continue to report on the Garcia case other
court cases regarding these three hundred people renditioned to El
Salvador and Seacat in the next few weeks.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Yeah, just to finish up. As things continue to get worse,
people keep reaching out to us, which we appreciate. If
you would like to, you can email us cool Zone
Tips at proton dot me. We will read it. We
might not get back to you. Your email is not
end to end encrypted unless the email that you're sending
from is also encrypted that you can reach out to
(39:47):
us there.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
See you on the other side.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It can happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can now find sources for it could happen here
listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
Cool Zone media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is it could happen here. I am not going
to El Salvador. It's not gonna happen, no way, No,
thank you, mister President. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by
James Stout.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
Garrison.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're here to talk about possibly the most upsetting thing
I've seen in American politics in like the past six
months to maybe even I don't know viscerally had hit
me for like the past few years. Like yet what
happened on Monday in the Oval Office was is kind
of the most black pilt I've ever been, which is
not a great way to start an episode.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah, it like it made me feel like I found
twenty twenty three very hard, like going out and seeing
people freezing in the desert and then coming home and
some by knee ice cream on the on the timeline,
but like this was different. This was so like blatant.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
There's like a level of like intentional depravity that you're
reminded of or more blatantly so and.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Like Bukes trolling of yes everyone.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So we're gonna be talking about an Oval Office meeting
between President Trump and El Salvador President Bukelea. I guess
I could learn his first name, Naive Buke. There you go.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
You know he's Palestinian Salvadorre.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Are you fucking serious?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
No, that's an emam.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I don't even have time for that.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
It's just just fucking I'm sorry. If anyone's driving it
has had an accident upon hearing that.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
So, as you probably know, recently, the United States government
has sent upwards of three hundred people immigrants to the
L Salvador Terrorism Confinement Center, This prison black site that
people never return from. I guess I could point to
(01:54):
for a pop culture reference, which feels a little bit
in bad taste, but you can point to like the
prison in the TV show and Or as being a
very comparable facility, frankly, except they turn off the lights
in and Or they do not turn off the lights
in Seacott lights around all the time. They put ten
to twenty people per sell. It's pretty bad. Jameson has
(02:15):
done episodes on Seacott in the past, will probably keep
doing more.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
The lights thing, by the way, was a specific policy
change by Bouquele. There was a particularly violent weekend in
El Salvador, and as a result, he stopped letting people
who were detained for gang crimes go outside and stopped
building windows into the prison and just put the lights
on because a way of punishing, I guess the gangs
(02:39):
by punishing the people who are detained there.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, they can't go outside. They stay in their cell
for almost twenty four hours a day. They might occasionally
get thirty minutes outside, but that's not even confirmed because
no one's even allowed inside to see what's going on
in there. And we've sent upwards of three hundred immigrants there,
the majority, vast majority of which have no criminal record.
Even if you do have a criminal record, being renditioned
(03:03):
to a foreign a foreign prison camp is still bad.
But this is something that Trump hopes to expand on greatly,
and they are currently defending their ability to do so
in the court since it has been learned that a
few people sent there may have been partially sent by accident,
but the Trump administration is refusing to return these people
(03:26):
and is instead still trying to convince the public that
these are dangerous terrorists that deserve to be disappeared. So
let's kind of start with that main case. The case
that's receiving the most public attention right now is of
a Maryland man named Kilmayor Abrego Garcia, who's a subject
of a district court case that has been sent up
(03:48):
to the Supreme Court and then sent back to the
district court on whether this man can be returned home
to his US citizen wife and child. And then on
Monday April fourteenth, the Oval Office, meeting President Boukela said
that he will not return this Maryland immigrant with protected
legal status back to the United States, who Ice admits
(04:10):
was sent to Seacot based on a quote unquote administrative error, said, quote,
how can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?
Of course I'm not going to do it. The question
is preposterous unquote. The Al Salvador president also balked at
the idea of releasing Garcia from Seacott since he can't
have a quote unquote terrorist free in his country, lying
(04:32):
about Garcia being a criminal. I am going to play
a few clips in this episode because I think it
is necessary to listen to these people actually say the
words that they are saying, in the tone that they're
saying them, and the exact phrasing on these I think
is actually pretty important right now. So unfortunately, you are
gonna have to hear the voices of a few people
who you might not rather hear from, including the president
(04:55):
of El Salvador. So I'll play this first.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Clips can President big on this?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Do you plan to return him?
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Well? Yeah, I'm suppose you're suggested that a smuggle terrorist
in today United States?
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Right?
Speaker 6 (05:09):
How can I smuggle How can I return him to
the latter It's like I smuggle him into the United
States or whether you do, of course.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I'm not gonna do it. It's like, let mean that
the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle the terrorist
in today United States?
Speaker 6 (05:23):
I don't have the power to return him to the
United States inside. Yeah, but I'm not releasing I mean,
we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country.
We just turned the murder capital of the world to
the safest country of the Western hemisphere, and he want
us to go back into the releasing criminals so we
can go back to being the murder capital of the world.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And that's good. That's not going to be happened. But
they'd love to have a criminal, you know, with schedule.
I mean, I mean there's there's a fascination. Yeah, these
are chick people.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
It's just insane, Like the whole pretend any serious engagement
with reality there, it's just gone yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And they're both like miming that neither of them have
the ability to make any kind of deal between each
other to send people back, even though they have the
ability to make a deal to send people there.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, as they sit in the same room.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
The whole time Bekayley's talking, Trump has like this, like
a growing smirk on his face. As Bekayley's talking about
this preposterous notion of smuggling a US immigrant back into
the United States despite the Supreme Court order to facilitate
the return of this immigrant back into the country. The
whole smuggling framing is obviously absurd, with him saying like
(06:37):
I don't have the power to return him to the
United States. All he needs to do is release him
from Seacott and the US can fly him back right
just as we flew him to El Salvador. Like the
two heads of state are sitting right next to each other.
They could agree to do this at any time, But
now everyone's pretending that that suddenly they don't have the
power to undo what they seemingly had the power to
(06:59):
do in the first place.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like Bookeley has ruled and we're going to do a
whole episode of and like his rise to power and
then his use of power. But like he's ruled under
a state of exception for years in Elsabador, which allows
him to detain people without warrants, without trials, right, and
like it's that state of exception that is now the
norm there. And that's kind of what he seems to
(07:21):
be referring to, right, Like like we just get to
lock people up. Why would I not do that?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
In effect, they are arguing that every single human being
that is sent to Seacot by the United States is
unable to ever leave the prison alive. Yeah, Like that's
basically they're saying, because they're saying both both parties, both
Trump and Bukel, are unable to have someone who's been
sent there returned. So they're just they're just saying like
no one's able to do anything, Like they're just stuck
(07:48):
there until they die, and like this is part of
the design of Seacot. Uh, the person who runs like
the Seacot like security has said that they do not
intend in any person ever being released from cat. You
are not designed to get out. You are stuck there forever.
No one's ever left there. Yeah, it's just where you
get disappeared, and that's that's all. That's all that it is.
(08:10):
And I think part of why they're so unwilling to
send Garcia back is because then you have someone like
the first person who's ever like gotten out and can
talk about what it's actually like in there, when you
don't have like Christinome and like propaganda cameras pointed at
at the prison bars.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, Bukela is very redicent to really to anyone for
that reason, and like there are plenty of valigations and
like I think looks like Time magazine has publicist is
not huguely controversial that he made deals with gangs in
the past in elsabul or right to get them to
reduce the murder rate, and like he certainly wouldn't like
to hear that testify to certainly not in the United
(08:46):
States court, right, So, like he doesn't want people to
be released from there either, Like you said, they don't
want anyone to be able to go to any international
human rights courts and testify as to what happened to
them there. So it's kind of in his interest to
never have anyone be released. It's not just also, I
guess like in his interest, he's also being paid right
(09:06):
twenty thousand dollars per detainee per year by the United
States right now, so he also has a financial interest
in keeping people in there.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Even this per year deal makes now kind of makes
the zero sense because both of them are arguing that
there's no way to send anyone back, right, So, like
it's not that it's even like, oh, they're only going
to be there for one year. It's like they're just
they're just there, and like who knows if they're gonna
like still be alive by the time that some of
these people would be able to get out, whether that's
(09:36):
through the miraculous Donald trumpetpeachment of twenty twenty six which
will never happen, or like however, like these people are
just they are to stuck there because he's not going
to release them into his country. We are seemingly unable
to take anyone back from there, I think.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
I mean unwilling right, Like the US is theoretically able.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's argued that we're unable. As people get into more Yeah,
after this at break.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Okay, we are back.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
One thing that we've seen across the Trump administration the
past eighty days or so. Something that we saw very
evident in this meeting is that whenever a single person
is asked a question about the outrageous, possibly illegal, possibly not,
but just immoral or evil things that are being done,
the first instinct is always to pass the buck onto
(10:35):
someone else. We saw this a lot with Signalgate, how
it was always someone else's faults. No single person could
get like hammered down of being like, okay, you are
the person that's going to be like accountable for this.
And throughout this Oval Office meeting, eventually they started taking
questions from journalists and reporters and propagandists who are in
the room. And you saw this trend of you know,
if someone asks Trump about what's going on, he passes
(10:57):
the buck to Stephen Miller, who passes the buck to
who then passes the buck to Mark Rubio. And it's
like this big circle of like everyone's just talking around
each other because no one really has the authority to
speak on what's going on or how to fix this
problem because they don't see it as a problem. So
instead they just talk in a circle. And I think
Miller was one of the most effective at this and unfortunately,
(11:19):
we're going to play the longest clip in this episode,
just under two minutes from Stephen Miller, where he lays
out the Trump admins thought process and strategy behind what
they are doing. And I apologize for this, but it
is useful to hear from Himmler two.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
So here here we go, with respect to you.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
He's a citizen of El Salvador, so it's very arrogant,
even for American media to suggest that we would even
tell El Salvador how to handle their own citizens as
a starting point. As two immigration courts found that he
was a member of Mster Tank. When President Trump declared
MS thir Team to be a foreign terrorist organization, that
meant that he was no longer eligible under federal law,
(12:03):
which I'm sure you know you're very familiar with, the
iona that he was no longer eligible for any form
of immigration relief in the United States. So he had
a deportation order that was valid, which meant that under
our law he's not even allowed to be present in
the United States and had to be returned because of
the foreign terrorist designation. This issue was then by district
(12:25):
court judge completely inverted and a district court judge tried
to tell the administration that they had to kidnap a
citizen of El.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Salvador and fly back here.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
That issue was raised to the Supreme Court, and the
Supreme Court said the District court order was unlawful and
its main components were reversed nine zero, unanimously stating clearly
that neither Secretary of State nor the President could be
compelled by anybody to forcibly retrieve a citizen of El
Salvador from Al Salvador, who again is a member of
(12:56):
MS thirteen, which is I'm sure you understand, rapes, little girl, girls, murders,
woman murder's children, is engaged in the most barbaric activities
in the world. And I can promise you if he
was your neighbor, you wouldn't move right away, So you
don't think.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And what was r and the Supreme coach safe was
at nine to nothing. Yes, it was a nine zero
in our favor, in our favor against.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
The Juici Court ruling saying that no court has the
power to the telele foreign policy function of the United States.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
As PAM said, the rulers solely stated that if this individual.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
El Salvador sole distress was set back.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
To our country that we could deport him a set
in the top.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
No version of this.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Legally ends up with an ever living.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
Here because he is a citizen of Al Savador, that
is the president of Al Sadidor.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
Your question about for the court can only.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Be directed to Tennant.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So there's a lot there. Yeah, I think I'm going
to start with I can promise you if he was
your neighbor, you would move right away. And I think
that is really the heart of what the Strump administration
is is doing, Like it's appealing to this most basic
like suburban crime, panic, fear, racism of well, if he
(14:09):
was your neighbor, you wouldn't want him living next to.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
You, Yeah, like a vagos neighborhood kind of.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Well, just completely lying about like the context of this
case with you Miller saying it's arrogant suggest that we,
the most powerful country in the world, are used to
be before the tariffs can tell El Salvador how to
handle its citizens, falsely claiming that immigration courts deemed him
a member of MS thirteen, which just is not true,
(14:36):
talking about kidnapping him from Seacott to return him to
the United States, as if Ice didn't just kidnap hundreds
of people with no criminal records and send them to
a foreign goo lug and then also lied about about
the Supreme Court ruling, saying they found the district court
order to return to Garcia unlawfel and grossly mischaracterizing the
scope of what the Supreme Court ruling was and how
(14:56):
it was sent back to the district court to work
with the details on facilitate the return actually means. And again,
I think like the one of the most telling parts
is how he ends by saying, quote, no version of
this ever ends up with him living here, And yeah,
like they're gonna look for any any way to like
(15:17):
make this test case to work, right and if and
if they if they can do this to someone with
protected legal status, who is not a who's not a terrorist,
who is not an actual MS thirteen gang member, right,
this is this is kind of ideal for them because
that means they can paint anybody as as a foreign
policy threat enough to be sent to a foreign goolag.
Then at the very end of the clip, he passes
the buck off to to Bouquetlight to have to have
(15:40):
him answer this question again perfectly laying out their strategy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
There's a lot to break down in what military It's
also just kind of interesting cambillary is like amongst the press,
He's not one of the people like sat on the
couch is supposed to be giving the press conference. Right,
he just kind of wades in too. I guess like
like offer this opinion and kind kind of like be
the kind of embassy of this of their response, I
guess in a sense, I think crucially, like Abergo Garcia's
(16:08):
protection was from being returned to El Salvador, right, because
he had been harassed by gang members when leaving El
Salvador and when living in El Salvador.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
He's lived in the States since twenty eleven, and he
left El Salvador to flee harassment and abuse from gang members.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah, the gangs that he's been accused of being a
part of. But like it then follows that, like it
would be legal for them to deport him to a
third country, right, and that is the path that they've
followed with all the Venezuelan migrants. Right, They've accused him
of being members of Trend de Ragua. I have not
seen a compelling case made that any of them are yet.
(16:45):
I'm sure people from Trend de Ragua have come to
this country, but they have not provided any evidence that
the people they have sent to say God, are those people.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No, Like we've had like fourteen people are like accused
of some kind of like violent crime like murder or rape,
and in the other like two hundred and seventy five
do not have a criminal record whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Yeah, and the bulk of this is relying on some
kind of idea that they have entirely created from fiction,
that they are tattooing practices when one entered the raga.
And for them, right, even if they can't be returned
to Venezuela, they feel that they have this endraum which
is okay, we'll send them to a Salvador. But for
the Salbadarians, that's a different question, right, And that is
what they're trying to find here, And that is worrying
(17:25):
because the case here that is getting the most publicity,
that seems to be the one that the Supreme Court
has taken up is about the Salbadaran man. And I
hope that doesn't mean that like the ship has sailed
for the Venezuelans, right that essentially, Yeah, No, like they
don't have a case because that was the vast bulk
of them. I think there was only like sixty Salbadrean
(17:45):
citizens and the rest Venezuelans, no one.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Hundreds of people have been like forgotten in this After
Miller's rant there, Mark Rubio jumped in to state that, quote,
no court in the United States has the right to
conduct the foreign policy of the United stins States unquote.
And Steven Miller hopped back in to talk about this
Supreme Court case that they're falsely saying they won nine
(18:08):
to zero, which is not how that case went, and
they start talking more broadly about what can be allowed
if it has to do with the foreign policy of
the United States, and how the courts don't have the
ability to intervene in that process.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
No, the foreign policy of the United States is conducted
by the President of the United States, not by a court,
and no court in the United States has.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
A right to conduct the foreign policy of the United States.
It's that simple end of story. And that's what mister
Preme Court held.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
By the way, has Barbara fort the Suterpeini Court said
exactly what Marco said, that no court has the authority
to compel the foreign policy function the United States. We
want a case nine zero, and people like CNN are
portraying it as a loss as usual because they want
foreign terrorists in the country who kidnap women and children.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Part of what I find so disturbing about this idea
of you know, no habeas corpus, no due process if
you aren't on foreign soil is that like this idea
of the courts having no jurisdiction over foreign policy decisions
means that as long as you whether you're a citizen,
whether you're a permanent resident to document or undocumented immigrant,
(19:12):
as long as you are forcedly removed from the United
States soil, your rights and your due process has been forfeit,
and the US has neither the obligation nor sometimes the
ability to return you to US soil if that is
their foreign policy interest. And this is such a troubling
broad concept that the portions of the courts are kind
(19:32):
of allowing them to claim right now, and the complete
removal of due process is like slowly getting encroached upon
at first with undocumented immigrants and green card holders, but
as we will see in the next section, they are
also absolutely going to be targeting US citizens.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Yeah, I think like we should just point out obviously
the court is not conducting the foreign policy of the
United States. It's ruling on the legality of the action
taken by the press, which is exactly what it's supposed
to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And as it relates to your rights for due process
if you are in the United States.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, Like every single US person, right, US person
would be anybody who resides in the US, be they
documented or done, documented, migrant, citizen, what have you like,
has a stake in this.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
We're gonna go on break and then come back to
discuss the expansion of the sea Cott detention program and
the possible targeting of US citizens.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Okay, we're back.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So on April seventh, a few weeks ago, while on
Air Force One, President Trump fild reporters that he would
be quote unquote honored for the President of Al Salvador
to take a US citizens quote unquote American grown and
born criminals and put them in sea Cott, the Terrorism
Confinement Center prison black Site, saying quote why should it
(21:01):
stop just at people that cross the border illegally unquote.
A few days later, the White House Presecretary reiterated that
this is something that Trump is discussing both publicly and privately,
and later during the April fourteenth Oval Office meeting, Trump
said that if Salvador was to build more of these
torture mega prisons, the United States would quote unquote help
(21:23):
them out. If the Trump administration could disappear more American
immigrants and US citizens to these prison black sites, well, I.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Pay for those facieties to be opened a few once
we're going to be built, I'd do something. We'd help
them out.
Speaker 7 (21:37):
We help them think great facilities, very strong facilities, and.
Speaker 8 (21:42):
They don't play games. I'd like to go step further.
I mean, I say I said it to Pam. I
don't know what the laws are. We always have to
obey the laws. But we also have homegrown criminals that
push people into.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the
head with a baseball bat when they're not looking.
Speaker 8 (22:01):
That are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in
the group of people to get them out of the country.
But you'll have to be looking at the laws on
that state.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So this is just the start of a long process
that is going to be deeply troublesome and worrying. And
again like this is something that they keep talking about.
I think they're still looking for some kind of legal justification,
or they're looking for something that maybe, if not allows
for this, explicitly prohibits this in a way that they
(22:36):
can't get around.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, did you notice he called out Miller. He said,
you have to look at the laws and the Steve
obviously Miller is not the attorney general.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
He also did mention Attorney General Pambondi. Pambondi, Yeah, who's
also looking into this option right now?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
But Miller is often credited with being the kind of
mastermind between behind Title forty two, right, which was an
extremely obscure piece of public health law that was them
mobile by the first Trump administration to immediately return migrants
to Mexico without giving them their right to it an
asylum hearing, right, And like that's what I'm wondering if
they're going for again, Like Steve Miller has been very
(23:12):
good at this, at finding obscure justifications in the United
States federal law for shit that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think this is why they're definitely trying to stretch
this foreign policy claim as far as they can that
if it's if it's outside US soil, there's a limited
way US courts can actually interfere or undo things that
have already been done. And again, like the idea that
we're going to like fund the construction of even more
of these El Salvador mega prisons just to house American
(23:41):
grown and born criminals as well as immigrants, like we're
just funding like goolog camps on foreign soil to send
the undesirables to. And no matter how much Trump talks
about how we're oldly going to send quote unquote like
American criminals there, as we've seen with seacots so far. Like, no,
(24:01):
like the majority of people they are sending do not
have criminal criminal histories. I don't think anyone can trust
the Trump administration's definition of what isn't isn't criminal to
this extent anymore. Later in the same meeting, Trump reiterated
the same idea about sending you a citizens who his
administration deems criminals to this foreign black site. Here's another clip.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
This is all question on a clarification.
Speaker 9 (24:28):
You mentioned that you're open to supporting individuals that aren't
foreign aliens for our criminals.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
To Al Salvador. Does that include potentially US citizens?
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Fully naturalized immrated if they're criminals, and if they hit
people with baseball bats over the head that happened to
be ninety years old, and if if they rape eighty
seven year.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Old women in Coney Island, Brooklyn, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 7 (24:54):
Why do you think there's a special category of person.
They're as bad as anybody that comes in. We have
bad ones too, and I'm all for it. We have
others sort of negotiating with two. But no, it's if
it's if it's a home grown criminal, I have no problem.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
He's really obsessed with baseball bats thing. I don't quite
know what that's about.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It seems like a specific case that he's referring to.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Maybe it's something he remembers like thirty years ago that
it really got stuck in his head. Right, But also
later he says that they're negotiating with other countries to
send US citizens to not just El Salvador.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, I mean they've sent migrants, third country migrant to
Panama before, right, and detain them there. Honduras I believe
is building like a prison that's not dissimilar to Secord.
Like I'm be guessing this will be their sort of
way of courting allies in the hemisphere because they'll sort
of pay them a relatively large amount in order to
(25:54):
attempt to offshore people they don't like.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, and again, like as we've seen the past few
years and increasingly so now, the effort to label like
activists or people who are vocally opposed to the United
States foreign policy, the United States and the State of
Israel deeming them terrorists and then by extension, if you
charge them with the crime, then criminals. The idea that
(26:17):
they can be housed in a place like Sea cot
now with very very limited to no due process. The
whole due process question is still very up in the
air for how they're going to handle that aspect. But
you can't just take this as like, oh, you know
that that's just Trump talking, like, no, this is this
is something they really want to do. And it's like
(26:38):
one of the freakiest things that I've seen in like
domestic US politics in a long time. Earlier, Trump was
recorded half whispering to Makayla telling him that El Salvador
needs to build five more Sea Cought style torture prisons
to house US citizens, as Trump says homegrown criminals. Bukeley
(26:58):
replies that they will have enough room, and then the
entire Oval office laughs.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, they said homegrowns.
Speaker 8 (27:07):
Next, the home growns, you get a build about five
more places.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen before. Yeah, talking
about homegrowns. Their next got to build five more places. Oh,
we have enough space. Everyone laughs. And then Trump shows
off the new gold frames for the portraits in the
Oval Office.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Yeah, it's like a dinner party joke for them. It
might just be worth noting that, like every totalitarian regime
has housed its dissidents outside of the imperial core. Right,
like like Germany totally did this in the East, right,
Russia sent people to Siberia for Russia, so sobet Union.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Creating creating these like stateless zones where like the regular
laws of your of your like fatherland state do not apply, right.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And where the horrors are so far from the populace
that the populist can't really grasp them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
No, this is like elementary school stuff. It says like
like the first thing you learn about is concentration camps
and gulags, and how that's like this symbol of evil
and now it's something you laugh about in the Oval
Office to send home growns to five disappearing torture camps.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Yeah, and like, just to be like even clear, I
guess what distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison is
that there is no due process right. People are sent
there because of who they are, not because of what
they did.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Like if you're a Venezuelan man who may or may
not have a tattoo.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, like the way are I don't know what it
will take for some people to realize what's happening here.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And like the president of El Salvador is so on
board for this.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yeah, I mean he doesn't hide from that reputation, right,
he embraces it. His Twitter for a while had world's
Coolest dictator in the bio. I don't know if it
still does, like.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And like both him and Trump have openly aligned themselves
with quote unquote nationalism and nationalists. They're openly saying this.
Trump said dictator on day one. That wasn't just a
rhetorical device, that was literal. This is what he's doing.
The Alabita president told Trump, you have three hundred and
fifty million people to liberate, but to liberate three hundred
and fifty million people, you have to imprison some. And
(29:16):
you follow that up by saying that he is eager
to help with that, And I fat.
Speaker 10 (29:21):
Mister President, you have three hundred and fifty million people
to liberate it. But to liberate three hundred and fifty
million people, you have to prison some.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
That's the way it works, right. You cannot just you know,
free the.
Speaker 10 (29:33):
Criminals and think.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Crimes are going to go down magically. Have to imprisoned them.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
So you can liberate three hundred and fifty million Americans
that are asking for the end of crime and the
end of terrorists.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Many can be done, I mean, if you're doing it already.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
So I'm really happy to be here, honored any anger
to help this whole.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like liberation through imprisonment thing is elementary school stuff here.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
You don't have to have a pH in the history
of the nineteen thirties to have someone tell you that,
like liberation of the chosen nation by purging of the
undesirables is fascist shit. But like I'm here with one
to tell you if that's what you need, you know,
like this is textbook stuff, like Garrison's saying, like this
is not debatable, Like I know, we spent the last
four years debating is Trump a fascist or not? I
(30:20):
don't think that matters hugely, right, like this is a
fascist thing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's so much more disturbing that now, according to like polls,
like half around half the population maybe a little bit
less just agree with the current way that deportations are
happening and Trump's immigration policy like on a completely like
flat basis. And if you spend any time on on
X the everything app, watching videos of of these press conferences,
it's full of people just like cheering this on completely,
(30:46):
like completely blankly.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I think that's a very skewed sample of people who
totally paid for Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Of course, of course, but like the number.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Of people, Yeah, it's real humans saying like these are.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Real people who just just completely completely blankly think this
is a this is this is a net good and
like this is those people are unreachable. You cannot come
back from that, like you is, there is no coming
back from that if you believe that the way depretations
are currently happening is fair, just and right, Like I
cannot understand you as a human anymore. That is so
(31:19):
like divorced and like alien.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah, you've gone past the point of no return, right like.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Liberals who like shield the who like shield their eyes
from like the horrors at the border. Like, I don't
agree with that, but in some ways I can understand it.
The open like cheering on of this right is like
a whole it's a whole other level.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Yeah, it's not like I can't bear to see it.
I'm gonna ignore it so it will cause me to
confront the no the contradictions. It's I'm seeing it and
watch again, and I think it's fucking great.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
The last thing I'm gonna I'm gonna play here a
scene and reporter asked Trump if he would obey a
Supreme Court order to return someone to the United States.
Instead of answering this question, Trump attacked the reporter and
complained about how she wasn't praising him for deporting criminals.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
You said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed
to be returned, that you would abide by that. You
said that on Air Force one just a few days ago,
and they said that it must facilitating.
Speaker 8 (32:11):
Why didn't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're
keeping criminals out of our country?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Why can't you just say that, why do you.
Speaker 8 (32:18):
Go over and over and that's why nobody watches you anymore?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
You know you have no credibility.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Please go ahead, Yeah, mad, very textbook authoritarian like blanket
stuff like there's there's nothing to like commentate about that.
It just is what it is. I guess we do
have some breaking news because we're recordings on Tuesday. James
wanna want to, impossibly five minutes or less, fill us
(32:43):
in about the the update from the from the District
Court on Garcia's case since it was sent back to
the to the District Court from the Supreme Court last
week regarding his possible facilitated return to the United States.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Right, so much of this has hinged over what facies means. Right, Like,
they found the legal concept that they can argue ad
nauseum and in this case it's the word facilitate. The
DOJ didn't present a new information today, but we see
that there's some hopeful things on a district court judge
and then it kind of all goes up in flames.
But I think genius is x I and I S
(33:20):
is how the name is spelled. I believe it's genius
said that every day that he's there is a day
of further irreparable harm. And she talks about the process
being at the roots of the constitution. Right, She's ordered
for like two weeks more of discovery, which is going
to mean that both sides have more time to repair
their cases. Right. She wants people to testify in front
(33:40):
of the court. She is so the administration has argued
that facilitating his return would consist of them allowing him
to enter the United States if Buke released him, and
possibly providing a flight for that to happen, but not
crucially ensuring his release from SECOD. Right, and so anything
else going to that doesn't matter. Ginis said that like
(34:03):
their interpretation of the word flies in the face of
the plain meaning of the word. Quote, when a wrong
fear removed individual is uh. And then I'm adding to
the quote here I guess or context. She means, when
a wrong fe remove individual is taken outside the US,
it's not so cut and dried that all you have
to do is remove obstacles domestically. She also said, quote
to the Department of Justice here, you made your jurisdictional arguments,
(34:25):
you made your venue arguments, you made your arguments on
the merits you lost This is now about the scope
of the remedy. Right, this is a case that Miller
is claiming they want that's pretty unequivocal for a justice. However,
she does not seem to think that it is within
her power to request his return from El Salvador. So
(34:46):
she's calling for things to move quickly. Right, they want
to conduct depositions about twenty third of April, she said,
quote council vacations, council over appointments. I'm usually pretty good
about it. Not this time. I'm going to be available
if you need to do it odd hours or weekends.
That's what I'm talking about. Like anything short of a
(35:07):
judge saying you have to go to SECOT, remove him
from the cell, put him on the plane, and bring
him back to America is going to be interpreted by
the Trump administration to mean that they don't have to
do that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, they're going to weasel their way around it, the
same way you heard Steven Miller weasel his way around
every question, and with with truth being used as a
as a flexible medium. Yeah, to shape a sculpture of
their choosing. And like they've done that, right, the word facilitate.
I think most people who are first language English speakers
have a fairly good grasp with what that means, and
it doesn't mean like remove barriers domestically, that's what they've
(35:39):
gone for. The only way that he is getting out
it's a majority Supreme Court decision that is extremely explicit
that directs the Trump administration to go to El Salvadore
and remove him from that prison. I haven't seen anything
to indicate that we're getting that anytime soon. And as
the judge said, right every day he's there, he's a
(36:00):
reparable harm is done to him. And that's where we're
at right now, right with people arguing over the definition
of a word, as hundreds of people are locked up
having done nothing wrong in a giant torture prison. And
this is not the only person who we believe was
quote unquote mistakenly sent other supporting today coming out of
(36:20):
documented New York.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Yeah, good outlet.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
By the way, a father of a nineteen year old
legal legal immigrant from Brooklyn. This nineteen year old with
no tattoos, was kidnapped off the streets of New York.
The quote from his father reads, quote the officers grabbed
him and two other boys right at the entrance to
our building. One said, no, he's not the one, like
(36:46):
they were looking for someone else.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
One officer to be clear, correct, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
The other officer said take him anyway, unquote. And now
this father, exactly a month later, is still looking for
his miss son, who is disappeared into a Nel Salvador
torture prison.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, Jesus. Like I've said before on this show, like
one of the things that I learned in the Darien
Gap was how much people can care about their kids,
and like this shit that I saw people do to
ensure that kids had a better life, like broke my
heart in a way. That war hasn't that like anything
else I've seen in my life hasn't. And it's like
(37:26):
honestly really hard for me to hear stuff like that
and and like not react just being really sad or
really angry, like it's fucking brutal.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Things are looking a lot more grim in my mind
than they were when we recorded that Should You Leave
the United States episode. I still think the things I
said there I stand by, and I stand by the
only recommendation I have is to create options for yourself,
and I think those options should be created as soon
(37:56):
as possible, especially if you're sittingship is a topic of
debate according to the United States government, But even that
will not keep you safe, as we've as we've talked
about it today.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
And your options include creating networks to take care of
one another. Right, Like, the things that will probably affect
more of you than direct state violence are economic downturns,
are recessions, right, things like this, like those are things
that you can take care of one another through, and
like you should plan to do that too. You should
(38:28):
you should think about how you're going to pay your bills,
how you're going to feed each other, how you're going
to take care of your medical needs. Because I don't
think that the world is going to want to keep
doing business with the country that acts like this, and
both economically and in terms of its conduct towards migrants.
So like, your plans don't have to be to leave,
(38:51):
like your plans should also include what to do if
things get really bad, like in an economic sense. I'm
not going to tell you what that means, but it's
all we've already talked about, raids, mutual aid, It's all
the basic preparedness stuff that is not as big and
scary as leaving the country, but is nonetheless like vital.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
We will continue to report on the Garcia case other
court cases regarding these three hundred people renditioned to El
Salvador and Seacat in the next few weeks.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Yeah, just to finish up. As things continue to get worse,
people keep reaching out to us, which we appreciate. If
you would like to, you can email us cool Zone
Tips at proton dot me. We will read it. We
might not get back to you. Your email is not
end to end encrypted unless the email that you're sending
from is also encrypted that you can reach out to
(39:47):
us there.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
See you on the other side.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It can happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
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You can now find sources for it could happen here
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It Could Happen Here News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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