January 23, 2024 • 55 mins
James and Shereen discuss how to stay warm in the coldest winter yet and the warmest winter of the rest of our lives, because it will only get worse with Climate Change.
Clothing in the cold
Overall principles - cotton kills, it gets wet and stays wet and can freeze you
- It is not so much about staying dry as making sure you can dry off quickly
- Based on Mark Twight’s system , you essentially want to create a warm microclimate around your body which is warmer than the microclimate and will encourage and allow vapour transfer out into the world, not keep vapour around you
Base layer
Here you’re looking to wick moisture away from the skin and insulate while you’re warm. You want something that fits and allows you to move
Consider that wool can get misshapen and has to be treated with care but it doesn’t small like synthetic and it won’t melt and stick to you. Wool drys slower as well .
Don’t go too thick here, if it heats up or you heat up it really sucks to be locked into a thick warm base layer, I’d rather have a warmer active insulation layer and be able to strip down to a light base layer, for example when xc skiing uphill
Right now I am using a Black Diamond Rhythm which is a blend called Nuyarn, https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/m-ls-rhythm-tee/
when things get colder I have a 1/4 zip Artilect base 125gsm layer which I love. https://www.artilect.studio/us/m-boulder-125-1-4-zip-2211121-db-bk-1223#selection.color=6584
If you’re looking for value, I think Helly Hansen synthetic base layers are great, I have some that I got when I was 18. https://www.amazon.com/Helly-Hansen-Lightweight-Breathable-Baselayer/dp/B001N2MLYC/ref=asc_df_B001N2MLYC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312128224504&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3455986774775180687&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031340&hvtargid=pla-559593705576&psc=1&mcid=c1a5450b28a23d6ba978cf0b812277bb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI69D566vlgwMViNLCBB1ofw77EAQYAiABEgLFGPD_BwE
For legs I really like the kuiu base layer underwear with side zips and sized tk not overlap with socks
https://www.kuiu.com/products/ultra-merino-145-zip-off-bottom-charcoal?variant=40340172701854
Wind layer
This takes the bite out of the wind while remaining breathable . It needs to be cut big enough to move around in and go over your active insulation , and possibly your parka for protecting it in camp. For this reason some people advocate for a thing wind shirt which you can wear UNDER layers and a soft-shell which provides abrasion tresistance and is sized to go over layers
I love the mountain hardware kor air shell . The Pertex quantum air fabric is incredible and it’s very small and light https://www.mountainhardwear.com/p/mens-kor-airshell-hoody-1985031.html?dwvar_1985031_color=357
A more robus
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media. Hi have once James, future James, and I'm
coming to you to add a little message to this
podcast that was recorded by past James last week. I
just wanted to know that I have included a record
setting podcast description with links to lots of the products
we spoke about a little bit more information and on
all the different metrics that I included for choosing things.
(00:23):
And so you should be able to find that whatever
podcast downloader that you're using, if you just look at
the description of this podcast. It is very long, but
you should be able to find links to lots of
the things I spoke about there and a few other
products which I think are good value if you are
interested in getting yourself some clothing. All right, enjoy, Hi everyone,
(00:44):
Welcome to it could Happen here podcast that I'm enthusiastically
introducing for the third time because I've just sounded so
half fast the first two times that I've made myself
do it again. I'm joined by my friend and your friend,
Lanny Unis. Hi, Serene, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
That was lovely to witness.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, it wasn't it great? That's I really put on
my podcasting boots and you know, went back to the
podcasting face to do another day in the podcast minds,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Beautiful, beautiful, Thank you for having me, happy to be here. Yeah,
that's that's all I have to say.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
As you can tell, it's too content creators. You're excited
to create content. I'm glad we're not on Twitch. We
would we would be uh, we'd be in the poorhouse.
Oh yeah, it's like eight hour streams can't do it
all right, So when I here to to talk about
how how have we been in the podcast minds for
too long? Today we are here to talk about clothing
in the cold. Why are we talking about this? Because
(01:44):
right now it's it's record cold all across the US.
It's very, very cold. Because I've been spending a lot
of time outside both helping drop water for migrants crossing
the border, helping out in cucumber, and a lot of
days just like doing my recreation stuff in the mountains.
So I like to do and I think that, like
(02:06):
I guess education, I guess a lot of people have
been aggressively marketed at about what to wear when their outdoors,
be that people who are working or people who are recreating.
And I think it's good to have a little bit
of clarity around it, especially as we're entering like this
might be the worst winter of our lives, it might
also be the best winter of the rest of our lives. Right.
(02:28):
Climate change is making more and more people exposed to
more and more extreme weather all over the world. So
I want to talk a little bit about the stuff
I've learned in thirty something years of playing outside about
how to stay warm in the cold. So that's what
I'm going to do. I've got it's broken down. Like
I think, the really important thing to think about when
you are picking your outfit is obviously having all your
(02:51):
colors match. It's very important. But more than that, it's
like thinking about thinking about outfit as a system rather
than as a series of individual things. And I think
this is where like the way outdoor companies market is
really bad. They'll be like, oh, yeah, this jacket is badass,
and it's warm, and it's waterproof and it's wind proof
and it's also breathable, and like that's you probably would
(03:14):
be much better off with three cheaper jackets and one
very very expensive jacket. Interesting, specifically, I guess I've seen
a lot of people come a cropper when their very
single jacket gets wet, right, and then you're either got
one layer or you commit to wearing a wet jacket.
So we're going to talk about the different parts of
your clothing system, what you should look for and why
(03:37):
you should pick certain things. I'll try and recommend things
that are cheap as well, because I know that money
is hard to come by and the world seems to
be constantly trying to extract money from us. So this
system's based on Do you know who Mark Twite is, Serene.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, I don't know who Mark Twite is. But I'm
looking at the same document you are, and I read
his name maybe six times, and every time it was
Mark Twain and I was so confused.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
But it's marked legendary mountaineer. Mark Twain is equally good
for you know, if you're going on a boat down
the Mississippi River or climbing a mountain exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
But no, I don't know who mister Twight is.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Mister Twitt's a famous mountaineer. He's good at climbing mountains.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Oh that's cool, that's cool to be famous for that.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, A boy can dream, like maybe
maybe in another life I'll not have to podcast. I'll
just be able to raise fluffy animals and climb climbing
the mountain sheep. Yeah, that is the dream, you know,
every year, every time I don't want to sit down
and write my book and think about the amount of
livestock I could possibly purchase it. But lots of lots
(04:43):
of books dream. Yeah, Well, one day talking me sheep, Actually,
let's talk about basse layers because one of the things
they could be made out of, showing is wool from sheep.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Nice, that was good.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, I know. Ye I am a professional podcast guy.
So you basically there's the thing unx your skin right,
and a lot of people I think this is where
like people say, have you heard the phrase cotton kills? No? No,
yeah you've not heard that. Okay, I have not heard that.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I mean, I'm glad you're making an episode about this,
cause like most of the things I've learned about keeping
warm have just been like things I've heard, you know
what I mean. I've never like researched what actually will
help me or what will help other people, because I
think like even like when you provide, when you are
going to provide or like cheaper options, that's a good
thing to like donate to people too, now you know
(05:37):
what will actually help them versus like something else.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But yeah, totally, Like I know, like for a lot
of un housed people for instance, like you'll get donated
a lot of crappy cotton t shirts, but those are terrible,
right that the little gaps in the cotton, they get
wet and they stay wet, and it's much worse to
be cold and wet than it is just to be cold, right,
And these the whole system of clothing designed by Mark Twite,
(06:05):
Mark Twain's brother Mark White. The idea is not to
keep you dry. The idea is to let you dry
off quickly. Right, So you can get wet, you can sweat,
but it's much more preferential to be able to dry
off quickly. And that's all cotton doesn't do. And so
that's why cotton is considered to be like your worst
choice here. So if your base layer, you want to
(06:26):
go with the two options, I guess well, it's it's
like many things, it's a continuum, not a binary. And
so you've got wool on one end and you've got
synthetic on the other end. Wool is really nice because
it doesn't smell right, Like if you have like athletic clothing,
that synthetic can get really stinky. If you wear it
(06:46):
for a few days, it only gets stinkier. Wool tends
to be much better for that. It also doesn't catch
fire and melt to you, which if that's important in
your line of work, then then that's useful. Wool is
naturally fire retardant. Really where it's like, yeah, yeah, does
everyone know this? Clearly? No, charene, but.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Sheep are sheep fire proof? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I mean I think obviously high enough temperature would still
be fatal for them. But yeah, take yeah, yeah, yeah,
when we don't respect the sheep enough.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Very powerful ability.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah yeah, there's not even a sheep Pokemon that could
like Pokemon. As you said that, I was like, what
a good defense? Well yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone send me
a picture of a sheep Pokemon that you've designed, and
I will describe it on the podcast. It's unfortunately not
a visual medium, but I'd still like to see your
sheep yours, all right, so will it's flame retarding. It's
very useful in certain lines of work. It's not so
(07:52):
important for other people. But I will say that, like
even sitting around the campfire. It is actually really shitty
if your clothes melt to you. I've had gloves melt
on my hands and it was unpleasant. Wow, that was
only like a little bit. But again I can I
can assure you that people sitting around campfires do have
their clothing catch on fire. This is not like a thing.
(08:14):
It's why all your tents have to be treated with
a flame retardant treatment. It's that stuff that makes when
you're tent. You know, if you put a tent away
where it's wet and hot, you leave it at the
back of your truck, it gets really sticky when you
when you get out. That's a frame retardant treatment on
your tent. Oh, then lot about fire today. So the
the problem with will though, is that you have to
(08:35):
treat it with care, like you don't want to be
tumble drying wool right, and it can kind of get misshapen.
There are like hybrids, the thing called new yarn, which
I like a lot, which is like a wall synthetic hybrid.
I have lots of clus stuff made of that, and
then there are full synthetic things like have a little
(08:56):
base layer here. Again this being mainly a podcast. Scharene
can see this.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Describing a piece of clothing. It looks like cloth.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
All right, we're going to be fucked for the next
hour or so.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But what am I looking at it? It's like it
look kind of like textured or something.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So it's like this, yes, yes, it's ribbed. I'll try
to sleeve. We've just move right past that. It's it's ribbed,
and that's to allow like the little bits that touch
your skin keep you warm, but then the channels allow
for it to breathe right from monaster, to move away
and wik away from your body.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So that's that's the synthetic hybrid or.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This is synthetic. It's spandex and polyester. It's got this
like it's very thin, you can see through it, but
it's also very warm by company called Beyond Clothing. I
would caution people against having too thick if you're planning
on actually hiking or being active or like, you know,
let's say you work in construction, you work in agriculture,
(09:59):
maybe just have a job you have to go to
remote places. You're a doctor who has to treat people
at remote places, or you win turbine engineer, or you
work on the railway lines or something. You know, if
you're going to be active, having too thick of a
base layer could be really annoying because if it heats up,
that's kind of your last option. And if it's really
thick and you try to rely on that for most
of your warmth, then you're going to overheat. And then
(10:21):
when you overheat, you're going to sweat a lot. Or
when you sweat a lot, that sweat is saying going
to soak your layer right, and then when it gets cold,
you're going to be wet and cold, and that is bad.
So consider if your base layer like a lightweight or
a midlight thing, and try and get your warmth from
something else. It's whatever suggest. I really like the new
yarm ones. Like I said, there's one made by Black
(10:43):
Diamond called a Rhythm T shirt, which I really like.
I've loaded those. They are often on sale. You can
get them really cheap. If you're looking for something really cheap,
I would say to just avoid cotton, so you can
look for things which are polyester or nylon, and those
are going to be a lot better than just your
T shirt. They are going to smell, they're going to
get pretty stinky. But you can often find them for
(11:05):
around the same price. Right, and if it's very cold,
you may want basic layers your legs as well. Good
ones for those are hard to get cheap. I like
ones that zip all the way off, like like like
you know, like like Chipendale style. Yeah, but you want
zips all the way down the side, Oh, zippers, so
they're up pull on no, yeah, but because then you
(11:27):
have to take your boots off.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, So if you're well, I think of everything.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Drop your trousers, put those on, because taking your boots
off in the snow and then hopping around, no.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I mean it sounds very impractical. So that's cool they
thought of that. That's very smart.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's a nice it's a nice.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Technology has to give less many things. There's a company
called cou who's chiefly hunting company, but they make a
really nice like side zip leg bas layer, which I
think I would recommend for a lot of people if
it's really cold where you are with I guess trousers generally,
it's they're a lot less complicated than upper layers. But
the things you want in the cold really are again
(12:10):
something that's not going to like cause you to sweat
a lot, so I wouldn't suggest everyone like going around
in waterproof trailers. I really like ones that have vents,
like mechanical vents, so you can open up so you
can cool off these guys. Right, Like, the pockets are mesh,
so if you open the pocket, not only can you
(12:32):
get your accessories out, but you can also like vent
off the heat that way, and so that way you
don't soak them out with sweat. Right. There's a company
called Beyond who makes every possible weight and size of trouser.
I really like their stuff. I use this stuff a lot.
You can get kneepad pockets as well, which are super useful,
not only if you're like like you see them in
(12:54):
military gear a lot, but if you're working, saying, construction
or carpentry or something that you have to kneel a lot.
It's a really nice table on kneepad, So those get
a recommendation for that. For a cheap one, the Proana
make a parent called the stretch Zion, which I think
is really nice. Climb in them all the time. They
can often be found really cheap. Your next thing is
(13:16):
your active insulation, so that's you need to warm yourself
when you're active, right, So there's two types of insulation.
The system is active and static. One is for when
you're moving and the other is for where you're stationary,
and your active insulation is People used to call this
a mid layer, but that was back when people wore
like wool jumpers and you kind of had to keep
(13:38):
it covered from the world or it will get wet
and stretched out and very very heavy. But sometimes this
will actually be outer layer, So I don't think mid
layer is a great term. That's what they used to
call it. People used to use fleeces a lot. Fleeces
are fine, but again they can get very very heavy
if they get wet. Some of them don't breathe very well,
and they can sort of very quickly become too hot
(13:59):
of your exercising, and they're not very wind proof. They
don't block the wind at all, so much better choice
is something called a grid fleece. So like the base
layer was talking to you about, it has like a
little grid pattern that allows for moisture and air to
move away from your body, so like you're less likely
to overheat. There's a really cool fabric called Polo Tech Alpha,
(14:23):
which you should look for rather than like looking for
a specific item. If you look for Polartech Alpha or
Polotech Alpha direct, then you can scat around for stuff
that's some sale and find something that's really nice. It
kind of looks a bit fleecy, but it's also a
grid pattern. It's really warm and it's very small. I
have a few things that are like made of that.
(14:43):
I have one from a moot called the Alpha sixty.
So there are different weights, right, sixty ninety one twenty
sixty is the least. I think ninety it's grams for
square meter, but ninety grams for square meter is pretty
much a good mid zone for almost everyone. So that's
what to look for in those if you're looking for
a cheap midless or a cheap way to stay warm
while you're moving around. The US military has this thing
(15:06):
called a waffle top because inside of it looks like
a waffle right, I guess grid was. They like to
give things baby names in the US Army. Oh LUKX,
suren's got one. Yeah like that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I love waffle top. I'm always pulled all the time, so.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm also a cold person. Yeah, I do love a waffletop. Yeah,
but yeah, those waffletops. You can get them super cheap
everywhere online. I would caution people against getting it can
be easy to find, like a thing where it's got
like a waffle back ere and a soft shell front
and it's like your windshll your rain shell. But those
are really warm, and they're really big and bulky, and
(15:43):
it's quite hard to wear them if you're actually moving
with any sort of intention. So that's where you want
to keep your things separate, so you can choose choose what,
like exactly how warm you are where then being forced
to be like a certain level of warm. Talking of
forcing people to do things, Charene, Wow, it's time for
(16:04):
us to force them to listen to some adverts.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We're back, so Charene's voice, and we are talking now
about the other part of keeping yourself warm, which is
static insulation. This is the big warm jacket. Everyone likes,
your happy jacket, the one that makes the cold go away. Right.
The deal here is that like a big puffy jacket
(16:39):
is pretty crappy to war again, if you're moving with
any intention, right, like, unless it's seriously like arctic cold,
then it's hard to hike or climb in a big
puffy jacket. So what this guy is for is for
when you stop moving. So if you're hiking, that would
mean when you stop to regrow, you stop to have
(17:00):
a snack or to put your camp together or whatever.
It's good to have like a really big jacket that
is warm that you can toss on immediately. Putting clothes
on once you are cold is generally not the deal.
The deal that is putting them on so you don't
get cold, because all you're doing with all these layers, right,
(17:23):
is trapping air against your body that is warm. That's
what the little the grid parts and the grid fleece do,
and that's what all the little feathers in the down
jacket do, right. They're just trapping pockets of air that
you heat up. So if you wait till you're really cold,
it's going to take you a lot longer to get
to get warm. The thing to do is once when
you're moving you're nice and warm, you stop, you're gonna
(17:44):
get cold. So if you toss on that jacket then
you can stay cold. I say warm down jackets are
really complicated. If there are a couple of issues with
like cheap down jackets that make them probably best avoided.
One is the but if you're not using ethically sourced down,
that the industry can be pretty abusive, right. That down
(18:08):
is comprised of feathers that come from ducks and geese.
It's not very nice to ducks and geese to kill
them and steal their feathers. And if you're going to
do it at all, if that's something that you choose
to do, you should at least try and find ethically
sourced down, in my opinion. The other thing is that
down natural down, when it gets wet, it clumps up
(18:29):
and it doesn't work anymore. It doesn't insulate you, right,
no like nicer downs modern more like modern downs are
treated with water repellent coating, so they don't tend to
do that as much. But the other thing was down
is that like a lot of numbers get thrown at
(18:51):
you when you're looking at a down jacket, Like if
you look at the money Internet, it's all kinds of information.
Some of that stuff is bullshit. The things that are
important are the fill power and the fill weight. The
fill power is it tells you how many cubic inches
of loft one ounce of that down will fill, So
a higher number is better, right, a higher number is
more puffy, And then your feel weight tells you how
(19:14):
much of that down is used in a jacket. So
a higher fill power jacket with a lower let's say,
a four hundred four power jacket with sixty grams of
feel weight would be as warm as an eight hundred
fold power jacket with thirty grams of feel weight. So
once you get your phil power and your feel weight,
then you get a pretty good idea of how warm
(19:36):
a jacket is going to be. So the other alternative
to natural down is synthetic down. Right. Where that stands
out is like it can get wet, and you can
generally like baby it a bit less, but it doesn't
pack down as well, and it is tends to be heavier,
and you don't get feel power, but you do get
(19:57):
feel weight. So if you're the jacket I use is
synthetic because like I like to shovel in my bag
and sometimes it's wet, or like sometimes it gets a
bit wet, right, I just I don't like to have
to like try and baby it so much. I also,
for ethical reasons, prefer that. There's a company called Prima
Loft p R. I m A. They make synthetic insulation
(20:21):
sort of very good, and they say make some from
post consume recycled plastics and they have something that to
buy degradable as well, so I really like cool. Yeah,
it's cool, right, Like I saw something a while ago
and how ducks and geese are treated pelic down and
it may be very I was like, I.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Didn't really want to ask because I don't really need
to know more than I already do because I don't
buy that stuff anyway. But do they are there birds
that die exclusively for their feathers or at least do
they die for meat and their feathers?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I think they die exclusively. I'm sure they are eaten,
but they are raise like the commercial product is the
feathers basically because they kill them much younger. Yeah, it's shitty.
There are like ethically sourced downs, which I think if
you know, if if you're a consumer of animal products.
(21:15):
For the most part, I avoid than most of my
wall stuff I got before I was vegan. But I
think if you're picking between wall and down, I think
the down industry is it's hard to be mean to
sheep in a way that people are mean to a
poultry because sheep just aren't having it. They'll die.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Also, you're not like shearing wools different than plucking feathers.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, well yeah then killing an animal to Yeah, there's
a distinct thing going on there. So yeah, I prefer
not to have. I have a few down jackets that
you know, but I keep them baby and look after,
but for the most part, I use the generally, these
are called ballet parkers, the sort of static insulation layer
because when you're balleting, when you're climbing, right, you don't
(21:58):
put them all for climbing, but then when you're on blet,
you're stationary, so you put them on. And it's nice
to have a hood on these two, right, because you
don't want to be like, oh, I've got to get
my beanie out, get my jacket on. You want to
just be able to put your one big warm jacket
on and then you're warm.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So is it true that you can lose like heat
from your head and you're or like I've always heard
that like if you wear a beanie you can stay
warm better. Is that not true?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean you can lose heat from your head,
and so it's a part of your body.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I mean, okay, I know technically that makes sense. Yeah,
but yeah, it's like you lose a mom thing to
say to their kids where it's just like cover your head,
don't go out when your hairs wor.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, you can lose heat from any sort of exposed
surface area right and insulated part of your body. I
think sometimes people overestimate their role played by your head.
Like you know, people say you lose ninety percent of
your heat from your head. This isn't true, right, Okay,
this is why we don't climb mountain into like fur
hats and speedos. Like you you do want to cover
(23:00):
your head when it's cold, and it can make a
big difference, especially like your ears. You know, where the
circulation is close to the skin, they can get cold
your nose, right, you can get frost nip your nose
and your ears. So like you do want to cover
those things, having like a kafa or snowed is that
what it's called.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I don't know. Okay, but that's enough.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, okay, a buff is a trade name a buffoble thunder. Yeah,
a caf is a great suggestion.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, I have a kafa that I've worn up
and down many mountains. It's really nice because if you
tuck it into the neck of your jacket kind of
blocks or the wind gaps, and then it's already warm
because it's it's been inside there. So when you go
from jacket to sleeping bag, you just wrap that guy
around your shoulders and then it's you're warm. Multi purpose
(24:01):
I love. And also if you have a kafa, you
can use it to prefilter water, right because you want
to get rid of the turbidity. So like if you
if you're filtering from buddy water, you can put your
kafa over the lid of your bottom and then rub
a band down scoop. Yeah. Yeah, many used to make
a sling out of it. I won't use it to
hold gauze on a leg wound that I had. Well,
(24:24):
people lived a wife, Yeah, many of mycrofias lived a life.
Just I'm just here for the ride. So yeah, that's
your your down jack if you do want like a
down animal down duck down jacket. The cataline ones are
really good for the money. The cathline is a French
sports It's like French ARII or European ari It's huge
(24:44):
in Europe, not so big in America, but there's stuffs
excellent value. Also, if you want to get really dorky
about down jackets and warm jackets, the ultra light subreddit
a place where I definitely go sometimes more time than
I should, is you you can find like someone has
made a spread cheet ranking like the fill power, fill weight,
(25:04):
and price of different down jackets. So if you want
to get into it, you can get really into it there.
You can spend a lot of your life on that
subreddit if you want to. So the next layer, and
it kind of plays into the the two insulation things.
It's your wind layer. So a lot of the way
we experience cold as humans is through wind, right because
(25:27):
of the way, that's why we have the concept of
wind chill right, or the air rushing past you, cause
you a lot more than that same temperature without the
air rushing past you. And this is often how we
experience cold and the outdoors especially right. So having something
like active insulation is great, but often like that alpha
(25:47):
fabric for instance, it's you can see through it. It
can be very warm, but it doesn't do anything to
bluck the wind, and that's sort of by design, right,
because it's allowing vapor to move out, which is what
you want, but you do sometimes, especially in windy conditions,
need a layer to block the wind. That's your wind layer.
It also helps a lot in not trashing your expensive
(26:07):
insulation layers, like a very nice down jacket will sometimes
have a very low the Denny account is like the
thickness of the fabric, So a nice down jacket will
still can often have a low Denny account. It's not
really designed to be like it's not like recently, I've
been out in cucumber building shelters for people, right, so
I'm constantly carrying lumber and you know, using tools and
(26:29):
cutting stuff. And if you wear your fancy, expensive, super
light down jacket, you're going to shred it and then
you're going to end up with little patches of duct
tape all over it. And now you're expensive down jacket's
not as warm as it used to be. Well, yeah,
sad time for you. So you can avoid this by
either just not wearing it for that or covering it
(26:52):
with a wind layer, which also helps because even those
down jackets often like the wind can get right through them.
A wind layer is is a really nice option for
a number of those reasons. Also, you can often just
worry about your base lay and even down to pretty
cold when you're moving trail running, like people trail run,
I'm sure they'll have have already know this, but if
(27:14):
you're hiking, your trail running, if you're climbing, a wind
layer can really like increase the range of temperatures which
you can work in without getting too cold. And like
a very small mind is like the size of maybe
a tennis ball when I pack it down, but it
makes you a lot warmer. And you don't want one
that blocks all of the wind because then you won't
(27:36):
be able to it won't be breathable. Right, Oh, you
want something that's a little bit breathable. The one I have,
I looked up the one I like. It's called a
mouth in hardware core air shell, but core is spelled
with a K. How you know it's cool? Yeah, you
got to you got to get it in, got to
get it in this and where, and then wear is
(27:57):
spelled like you know, like like wearing clothes, so double
puns on their spellings. It's made of the stuff called
pertext quantum air, which is really cool. It feels like
silky but it's a synthetic fabric and it's really nice
and it's very small, and it's very light, and you
could put it in and if you had, like if
you're wearing like cargo trousers, you know you can put
(28:19):
it in the side pocket or cargo short if you're
that kind of person. So those If you're looking for
a cheaper thing to block the wind, like you can
find pretty cheap wind cheaters right out there. You don't
want something that's very plastic key and then kind of
clammy you're going to sweat up in. You can get
surplus British wind proof smocks that are really nice. I
(28:40):
use those all the time when I'm working outside because
I uploads of pockets. They're nylon cotton blends, so they're
not all cotton, and they they're very like robust. You know,
they're not going to wear wear down or like get destroyed.
If you're carrying lumber or rock climbing, right, if you're
into clam like a lot of this stuff, will you
(29:02):
need something with a thicker face fabric otherwise you're going
to destroy it when you're climbing, especially if you're climbing
somewhere like Joshua Tree where like the rock is like
sandpaper and it eats your clothing. The final layer is
your waterproof, right, It's a final one because like you
want to avoid wearing your waterproof really, Like I think
(29:25):
far too many people where like they rely on waterproof
coats when it's not raining enough to need one. The
problem with waterproofs is if rain can't come in, moisture
can't really come out. Even fabrics like gortex per text
and that they say that they're breathable, but I think
anybody who's tried to exercise hard in a gortex jacket
will tell you that they're not. Like, if you're hiking
(29:49):
with a group and you'll put on your gortex, then
you need to move slower because you're going to overheat,
and then you're going to get wet from the inside
because you're sweating, and that's not what you want. So
waterproof is important because when it's really wet and you're outside,
you don't want to get soaked, right, But it's also
(30:09):
not something you should be wearing most of the time.
What you want to look for in a waterproof again,
there are like statistics numbers. One of them is the
it's the pressure resistance of the fabric. Like it's expressed
in the as the height of a water column in
millimeters until it can push through the water resistance of
(30:31):
the fabric. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you for beet honesty. That's good if you imagine
like that, Like I have a tube, right, it's a
linear tube like a cylinder, and then I put it
on my waterproof fabric. Right, I put my waterproof fabric
at the bottom of the tube, and then I put
one milimeters of water. It doesn't do anything. Two mil
three meals for keep adding until until it pushes through
(30:56):
the fabric.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So that's that's called like a pressure.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What do you get, Yeah, that's a pressure. It's sometimes
expressed in pounds per square inch as well.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
It's useful if you're like skiing or snowboarding, like sifety
of your skiing or snowboarding badly and you're going to
spend a lot of time like sat in your ass
then or you know, otherwise working in snow, like kneeling
in snow. That's very handy. There's also a statistic which
is probably more useful. It's the millimeters of rain in
twenty four hours before it like wets out and becomes permeable.
(31:27):
So if you live somewhere really wet, like Belgium or
the UK, Belgium just sticks out in my head as
a place where it rained all the time, but maybe
that's just my bitterness. You're looking for, like something in
the twenty thousand range. That's a jacket that you can
pretty much wear all day in the wet and be fine.
Gortex Pro Fabric, I know it's twenty eight thousand, so
that's kind of your gold standard, but anything over twenty
(31:51):
thousand it is fine. And then breatheability is the last one.
Moisture vapor transfer rate, and again anything over twenty thousand
is good. The other thing to look for in a
waterproof is taped seams, like you know, the bits where
it stitch together. If there isn't tape behind those seams,
then water can get in through that stitching. And like
(32:11):
I've seen people get very expensive jackets which in explicably
don't have tape seams. I think it's like maybe a
fashion jacket or something, but I have like wet like
down every seam, Like they take off their jacket.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
With a group of like people just that are wearing
these kinds of clothing and just like you judging them.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Quietly, that's me every day, serene every day when you
see me, I'm judging people for their outdoor clothing. It
just it just happens inside my head. It's my inside ways.
I'm happy that people are outside and I just want
them to have a comfortable and enjoyable experience.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
That's a good like thing to focus on if you
want to, like make sure it's like not a fashion
jacket versus like utilitary and whatever. You know, like is
it going to actually be helpful or are you just
going to look cool or is it.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Going to do Yeah, you can do both, Like you
should feel good in what you're wearing and wear things
that make you feel happy about yourself and your body.
And however you want to appear is fine. Like I
don't give a fuck, just want you to be comfortable
and safe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But he will judge you.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That won't judge you. I would judge you if you're
doing something that might put you in danger or someone
more accually, like you can put yourself in danger in it,
and I don't care. Like, if you want a free solo,
fucking have it, but don't put other people in danger
without their consent. I guess which you're doing if you
go outside, because someone has to come get you if
you get in trouble out there, and that's not at
(33:37):
risk free endeavor. Right, returning from my judgmental character to
waterproof jackets, you know, te you know what else, I
am judging how my voice out. I'm remaining a loop
from judgment. I would never but but I am judging
your products and services and support this show, and I'm
(33:59):
judging them or because gold is not a good way
to spend your money.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But we still love our jobs.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
We do love our jobs, Yeah we do. I do
enjoy my job. I like my job. I just I
want you to have nice jackets and not Runald Reagan
commemorative coins. So here's some adverts. We're back, and yeah,
(34:31):
we're going to talk a little bit more about waterprop jackets.
I think it's important. The other thing you want to
look for, right, So your your tape seems are good.
And then I like to have mechanical venting, which.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Is yeah you mentioned that earlier.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What does that mean? So this is these events that
I can open, where as opposed to venting through the fabric,
I want to vent through a zip that I can
open up, right, So, like I'm wearing a puffy jacket
right now, that's a mechanical vent right. Why am I
saying that jacket? Yeah, Charene can see me. No one
(35:07):
else can. It's like the sixth sense. I'm a dead
person and Scharen is the only person who can see
me that is.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Can I just get that straight? So just unzipping your
jacket counts as mechanical venting.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, So like if you have a nice waterproof jacket,
it will have pit zips.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Okay, got it? Just want a spot a fancy waight,
just to say unzipping some.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well yeah yeah, okay, well because you but you want
like this, This is not right. If I unzip and
it's a pocket inside, that's not mechanical venting because zipped.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
A chest pocket. For those listening, everyone.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, welcome to the podcast. But I do stuff, and
Charene tells you what I do. Yes, pockets are not
mechanical events, right, but you went away. So you've got
pit zips. Some of them will have chest zips. Okay,
waves to force that hot air out and allow breathe
ability to happen. Right, So I like that in in
(36:00):
Raine jackets. And then I also like a hood right
because it's having a wet head isn't fun. And so
this is this one. I liked to have a hood,
and the Bellot Parker, I like to have ahood sometimes
the wind jacket. I like toberhood if you're doing climbing
and you're doing I never really wear a hood when
I'm cycling, but other helmet actively if you're caving or canyoneering,
(36:22):
might be a good idea to check the hood situation
with the helmet that you wear for that activity. So
like for climbing, you know, you lots of people will
say they have a helmet compatible hood, but I don't
know what helmet those people are wearing because they don't
fell over like even a pretty low profile climbing helmet.
So if you know, if you can go to your
loco outdoor shop, take take your helmet, you know, don't
(36:44):
don't be afraid of trying on with a helmet on.
And you want these all really to be cut to
allow you to move right. A lot of modern outdoor
gear it looks really nice like when you're going about town,
but it's cut kind of too tight in there. It
looks very trendy. It can inhibit your movement, right, and
so you want to be aware of that. You may
(37:05):
have to size up. And it's not because you've got bigger,
it's because close I've got smaller.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Also, if you're layering, that would make sense anyway, right.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, definitely. And you want to have your water proof
cut so it can go over your stuff, right, because
if it rains, you just want to chuck that thing on.
And likewise, you want to have that big ballet Parker
cut so that it can fit over your other layers, right,
because again you want to be able to chuck it
on as soon as you stop. And your windproof jacket too,
so you can use it to protect your more expensive
(37:36):
you can even I know people who do the windproof
jacket over the gortex just to protect it. Right. I
have two gortexs that like, I have one that's very
small and very thin, and that I like keep as
an emergency, like if I don't expect it to rain
or expect for it, but I'm going on a week
long trip, I'm not gonna you know, want to be
(37:58):
completely fucked if it rains, So I bring a little one.
It's called the Mountain Hardware minimizer. Kind of the name
gives away, but it's just very small. It's made of
gortex pack light, which is like the lower tier of
acceptable gortex. It's fine, you know, like a go outside
a lot and I use it and it's fine. It
doesn't breathe quite as well, but you can again overcome
(38:21):
that rete with some with them zips that don't zip.
And then if it's going to be red all day,
I have a jacket that's a bit heavier, thicker, packs bigger,
but the one I have is from a hunting company
called four Low lo h. It's really nice. Often, for
some reason, hunting stuff in recent years has got a
lot better, and outdoor stuff kind of has used to.
(38:42):
Hunting stuff used to be shitty, but it's kind of
overtaken it for some reason. And sometimes it's also nice
to have stuff that isn't bright orange and it isn't
like you have a theory of why that is because
people have a metrics shit ton of money and wealthy
people have got into backgoundry hunting because they were I
have a big dead thing, but these are not people
(39:03):
who maybe some people, some people are sending it really
fucking hard doing hunting and doing like ten twelve day hunts.
And they're hardcore out doors people as well, and they're
very wealthy people. They like to be uncomfortable and they
will spend a lot of money on expensive jackets. That's
my theory. Yeah, thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Those are the two things that you really want with
any waterproof you do need to take care of them.
(39:27):
I think with gor Tex that everyone should be aware of.
It has what are called forever plastics in it, and
they are really not good for the environment. And not
only are they not good for the environment when it's made.
And this isn't just Gortex, right, I'm not. Gortex is
a brand. They make fabrics, and I'm not just saying
it's with all those like those those kinds of multi
(39:48):
layer laminate waterproofs. And it's not just when they're made,
it's also when water sloughs off them. Right, So when
it rains on you and then that the rain you know,
the rain drop goes into the three and the stream
goes into the river, and the river goes into the ocean,
that little forever plastics are still there, and that's not good.
I would imagine as with many things, it's more not
(40:09):
good than we know right now. So some brands like
fiol Ravan won't use gortex and this stuff for that reason,
they don't have any forever plastics. Instead they use waxes.
I think people are kind of maybe have forgotten or
like you don't see as much of it as you
used to. But wax jackets are really good if it's
going to rain all day, if you're not so concerned
(40:29):
about weight, you can get like a waxed cotton jacket
or waxed canvas jacket like car Heart makes some right
or Filson have a nice Filson jacket that they were
a lot and it's way less fragile, but it is
much heavier, but it's also better for the planet. So
that's something If you do have a goratex jacket, like
it's not something that I feel good like having five
(40:51):
gortex jackets, you know, and like buying new ones every year,
like you should try and take care of them. And
there's a product called nick Wax which is really good.
You should use nick waxsuff when you're watching any of
your outdoor. If you're washing down, you should use nick
Wax down wash or you're really fuck up your expensive
down jacket. So I think that's a good thing. And
then yeah, wax, Like, consider how often you're really out
(41:13):
in an absolute downpour and if that's not very often,
like maybe you're okay with a wind layer or like
just waxing the shoulders of of your like have a
cotton jacket behind me that I just wax the shoulders off,
but like it's like a smock with lots of pockets
and I just put wax. I bought some Greenland wax,
which is which is a fear ratheran thing, and wax
(41:35):
the shoulders so the shoulders are impermeable to water.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Does it look different like the does it look like shiny?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, it looks a little bit shiny, but like it's
not bad and if you do it like better than me,
then then it won't look as shiny. But can you
can see that? No, it's not that bad. It's not.
It's kind of fun And maybe other people do other
things for fun, but I kind of like it. You
get a head and you grab the wax on and
then you melt it in with the head ryer. That's
(42:03):
what I do on Saturday nights. Insight into my life.
So the last thing that I wanted to talk about
was extremities. Right, I have rainos where like to really? Yeah?
Really rainos at hand?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Someone else that has it? No, Yeah, like yellow right now,
I mean not yellow if I press them yellow, but
like it's well, my feet and hands are always cold
all the time.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah yeah, yeah, same, and it's miserable. I hate having
cold hands.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Literally look at this. Wait, I just bought these recently.
These are electric hand warmers. Oh wow, trouble and I
keep them now. I just walk around with these all
the time.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's great. Yeah, it is nice to have warm hands.
And if you too, if you're a fellow hands colder,
there are some things you can do. I think sometimes
people wear really thick gloves that that stop the hands moving,
that doesn't really increase circulation, or they'll have cold wrists
and then it's kind of there's like a temperature. You
know that blood's getting cold or it's in your hands.
(43:09):
So I found like having a base layer or a midle,
a active insulation lare with thumb loops really helps because
then thumb loops make sure that the sleeve goes all
the way into the glove, and I would encourage you,
rather than wearing one big ass pair of gloves, to
have like a glove. I know this sounds really dorky,
but like a glove system. So like a thin lacy
(43:30):
glove and then a shell glove which is either waterproof
or wind proof, and then if you want to, you
can then stack that with a mitten on top of that. Right. Yeah,
I love emittletons are so cute. Yeah, get your person
who sews in your life to so your par emittans.
Have them join with a little string so you can
(43:51):
run that through the sleeves of your jacket. You don't
lose them. I used to have those.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, me too. I feel like or maybe I just
imagined having one. Can't figure out what our memories and
what are memories anymore, but I love those kinds of mittens.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, maybe I'll make gum that you so shreen James. Yeah,
I can't believe you have.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
How did you say in British boys mittens no renown
rains rainers.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
How you're saying so reino they're French? Ye guessing? Yeah? Yeah,
I think mine. Maybe I don't know, maybe it's just
from being naturally cold, but holding onto the handlebars of
a bicycle. Racing over cobbles has really fucked the circulation
and sensation in my hands. Yeah, the same thing that
happens if you work a jackhammer. Wow, hands get cold. Yeah,
(44:47):
it's good, not good, not good for the human and
body to do anything that much out of research. Make
a good glove system, but they only make it for
the military and they won't sell it to you, which
is lame. Yeah, there's a lot of like so one
of the reasons that some of this surtplus clothing comes
up is because it's designed as a system, which is good. Right,
(45:09):
it's one piece designed to work with another piece. And like,
for instance, Patagonia makes a protective combat uniform for the army.
As much as it would like to not talk about it,
it's still true and I've written about it before. But
they make a really good system and it's great and
scuffs got like. They actually have like this little graphic
(45:29):
that's like if it's this cold, where this, If it's
this cold and wet, where this, If it's this cold
and windy, where this. And it's very handy for people,
especially people who may not have grown up or had
that kind of experience or just had the chance to
try different products because they're very expensive. Right, It's very
handy to be like, Okay, this is and this, and
then you only need these five or six pieces that way,
as opposed to having dozens of jackets and dozens of
(45:50):
different things for different weathers. So like it. It works
very well, and it frustrates me that they don't do
the same thing when selling to people who are not
in the military. So the other things I wanted to
do with extremity is real quick socks, socks. It goes
the same way as gloves that you don't want to
(46:11):
a sock system. Yeah, I'm glad that you're picking up
when I'm picking down a Serene.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I have a sock system, but it's not you're It's
not anything about this. Yeah, well, my feet are always
called this is not a sock. But I do wear
this in my house.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Oh wow, Charene is showing me. Uh it looks like uh,
it's kind of a moon boot but made a fluff.
It looks like a yetty's foot.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
It's very warm. I don't wear shoes in my house,
so I either always have those slippers on or socks.
But my sock system is these socks can never mingle.
I have outside socks, I have house socks, and I
have bed socks, and those socks remain in their sections.
An outdoor sock cannot come in my bed. Does that
(47:02):
make sense? It does.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I'm fascinated to learn more about this when we start recording.
I'm going to inquire more about charines sock collection. Yeah,
very interesting to be anyway.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, that's eroticism. But I think so the same thing
with gloves. You're saying like they should be layered.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, I mean with socks, I think the big thing
is to like not always be trying to I think
people want to wear like a big thick wall sock
because it's cold, and then if you're kind of crammed
that into your same boot, you're going to restrict circulation.
You're not gonna be able to move your feet right.
So what I would do instead is either have a
(47:40):
couple of pairs of thin socks or use a warmer
fabric so like our paka wool is very warm for
its weight. The other nice thing about woll socks is
again the insulate when they're wet, right, so your feet
are going to sweat you're moving and so you want
something that's not going to get your feet cold, especially
(48:00):
your person who already gets cold feet. So Marina wool
is good, our packer wool is very good. But yeah,
you don't want to restrict with like one big fluffy sock.
You can get insulated boots if it's really cold, I
right down until below freezing. I don't like insulated boots
because again I don't like my feet to get sweaty.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
And well, you wear on your feet for that kind
of weather.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
They get really cold. Just gortex boots, and I wear
the same boots for almost everything unless it's like jungle.
If you're going to get wet, like goratex boots suck,
right because I take forever to dry. So like, if
you're in the jungle and the water is going to
come over your boots, then you shouldn't wear gortex boots.
If you're not, I have some. You like to know
(48:44):
exactly what boots I have? Sure?
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I mean we're not sponsored though, maybe no?
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did get some of this shit
for free when I was working in the outdoor industry,
but no one's paying us to say this. I have
Solomon Quest four D. I think I have of.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Wait, I have those?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Which ones do I have? I did like a bunch
of research a couple years ago when I got my
new hiking boots. I feel like I have the Solomons
or are those were the ones? I? No, no, no,
I do have the Solomons because I returned the other
one that everyone likes, the witches. What's it called hokahs
the whole focus.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Oh yeah, no, hogas make lovely running shoes. I'm not.
I don't have a preference for that.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I think there were. I mean, I just didn't understand
the hype. So I remember switching over to or returning
those and getting the Solomons. Wow, look at us.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah yeah, Team Solomon over here. They're vegan too.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, that's fun. If you have leather boots, you can
snow seal them around this time of year, but then
there'll be a bit less breathe will with a bit
more waterproof. But yeah, consider not overcramming, like thick socks
into boots are the same size. If you if you're
going to get a specific pair of winter boots, get
the massage bigger, and then you could wear a thicker
sock I would probably do that before I went to
(49:55):
an insulated boot until it was really cold, like arctic stuff,
you don't need an insulated boot. Maask makes some nice
insulated boots that I've used. And then hats is the
last one. Hats again, like it depends a little bit
on the temperature. But I have a couple of wool
beanies that I got years and years and years ago,
and they're very good and they're very warm, and the
(50:17):
only thing is when they get wet, they kind of
stretch out a bit, so they don't love getting wet.
You might want to put a hood over yourself. Otherwise.
A flee speanie is really good. People are sleeping on
the flea speanie, but like a micro flee stretchy beanie,
it's very nice. I tend to take them when I
travel because I'm a cold person and planes are cold.
(50:39):
So if I have that and my little Kafa in
my bag, then I can kind of wrap myself up
on the plane and I probably look a bit weird
to everyone else, but I don't care because I am
warm and planes are cold. I think that it's the
end of my ted talk on warm clothing. I talked
for an hour about cold Cusherine, I didn't think we
(51:00):
keep it under an hour? Really yeah, No, I've been
draining my whole life for this shit. Like I love,
I used to like my whole job used to be
to tell people what to wear and take with them
when they go outside. Wait really so yeah? Outdoor industry
journalists who are years That was how I started my
little when I was little baby journals. The expert here,
(51:22):
a little baby journalist, I wrote, I don't think I'm
an expert, but I will say, well, I'll tell you what.
There's my other little soapbox. You will read a lot
of reviews, and sometimes, like the reviews for Boots, did
they did Sharen in a good direction. Not everyone who's
writing those reviews is going outside very much, is what
I will say, or sending it very hard. Some of
(51:42):
them are, doubtedly are, but a lot of them are
trying to get you to click a link which will
return a certain percentage to the website that you're clicking
the link from, so four or five percent back right,
And you may, for instance, some of the brands I
mentioned here don't have that. It's called affiliate marketing. And
if brands don't have affiliate marketing, you generally can't put
(52:03):
it in articles for lots of magazines about the outdoors.
This is something that I fucking loathe, and you can't
be honest and say this is my favorite thing. Everything's
designed to be seoed and to get you to click
something and to return some affiliate revenue to the website.
So it would take a lot of those reviews with
a pinch of salt. And also just small brands struggle
(52:26):
to get into a lot of into a lot of
magazines because they don't have the marketing money to send
piles and piles of free stuff. So yeah, be cautious
about what you read. And if you look around, you know,
if you're looking at this shit like like I absolutely
have jackets that got several hundred dollars that I got
for free or I made some employer pay for because
(52:49):
I was going somewhere horrifically in hospitable as a human
life like Alaska, or Alaska's actually lovely. I'd like to
live there, That's the dream. Right, one day, I'll podcast
my way to a million dollars raise sheep in Alaska.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
I was looking for tickets to Alaska yesterday.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Actually show we're talking about Alaska. Yeah yeah, those lights,
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, go get after it. But I
don't really support moving to Alaska and colonizing people's land
because you shouldn't do that. Don't do extra colonizing. I'm
already doing enough. I feel bad about it, but so yeah,
(53:25):
I would suggest people take those reviews with a pinch
of salt. There are websites like gear Trade where you
can find new stuff. eBay offer up a lot of
people buy outdoor stuff, go camping, wants, get cold, get wet,
get sad, slap it on the internet and sell it
for pennies versus what it's worth, so you don't have
to buy any of this stuff new. Most of these
(53:45):
companies also have bomber warranties, and I'm just going to
leave that there as to the combination of second hand
purchasing a warranties. But you can probably join the dots.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Well, yeah, thanks for having me for this. I learned
a lot.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Thanks for joining Michriine and sharing with me your sock system.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
I mean, yeah, that was really intimate. No, I think
this stuff is like underrated how important it is I
feel like, I mean, like, unless you're always outdoors and
you're like, you're an outdoorsy person, I think you wouldn't
know exactly the best way to keep warm, And it's
good to know, Like what will actually help someone if
you want to, I don't know, donate stuff to them.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
So yeah, we have been plagued with donations of really
shitty blankets for instance. It's no one's fault. I generally
understand that people care and like it. I'm so proud
that people want to help and it makes me so
happy to see people taking the money that I know
none of us have enough of and buying stuff. But like,
for instance, a thick wall blanket is going to do
so much more than two or three very thin micro
(54:47):
flease blankets. You know, if you're looking towards your local
unhoused community, right again, like think about things that are
durable and that will still insulate when they're wet. Well
if you if you do well, then then that's a
great choice for a lot of those things. And perhaps
we can have one of my own house friends on
to talk about like effective donations. The best way to
(55:09):
help people who are unhoused is to give them money
and that they can buy the things that they need.
Because they know about the things that a good point
and so yeah, yeah, that's my last thing for today.
Give people who need things money so they can buy them.
All right, bye, every one Bye. It could Happen here
(55:33):
as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts
and cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com,
or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
You listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It
could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com
slash sources. Thanks for listening.
Also media. Hi have once James, future James, and I'm
coming to you to add a little message to this
podcast that was recorded by past James last week. I
just wanted to know that I have included a record
setting podcast description with links to lots of the products
we spoke about a little bit more information and on
all the different metrics that I included for choosing things.
(00:23):
And so you should be able to find that whatever
podcast downloader that you're using, if you just look at
the description of this podcast. It is very long, but
you should be able to find links to lots of
the things I spoke about there and a few other
products which I think are good value if you are
interested in getting yourself some clothing. All right, enjoy, Hi everyone,
(00:44):
Welcome to it could Happen here podcast that I'm enthusiastically
introducing for the third time because I've just sounded so
half fast the first two times that I've made myself
do it again. I'm joined by my friend and your friend,
Lanny Unis. Hi, Serene, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
That was lovely to witness.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, it wasn't it great? That's I really put on
my podcasting boots and you know, went back to the
podcasting face to do another day in the podcast minds,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Beautiful, beautiful, Thank you for having me, happy to be here. Yeah,
that's that's all I have to say.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
As you can tell, it's too content creators. You're excited
to create content. I'm glad we're not on Twitch. We
would we would be uh, we'd be in the poorhouse.
Oh yeah, it's like eight hour streams can't do it
all right, So when I here to to talk about
how how have we been in the podcast minds for
too long? Today we are here to talk about clothing
in the cold. Why are we talking about this? Because
(01:44):
right now it's it's record cold all across the US.
It's very, very cold. Because I've been spending a lot
of time outside both helping drop water for migrants crossing
the border, helping out in cucumber, and a lot of
days just like doing my recreation stuff in the mountains.
So I like to do and I think that, like
(02:06):
I guess education, I guess a lot of people have
been aggressively marketed at about what to wear when their outdoors,
be that people who are working or people who are recreating.
And I think it's good to have a little bit
of clarity around it, especially as we're entering like this
might be the worst winter of our lives, it might
also be the best winter of the rest of our lives. Right.
(02:28):
Climate change is making more and more people exposed to
more and more extreme weather all over the world. So
I want to talk a little bit about the stuff
I've learned in thirty something years of playing outside about
how to stay warm in the cold. So that's what
I'm going to do. I've got it's broken down. Like
I think, the really important thing to think about when
you are picking your outfit is obviously having all your
(02:51):
colors match. It's very important. But more than that, it's
like thinking about thinking about outfit as a system rather
than as a series of individual things. And I think
this is where like the way outdoor companies market is
really bad. They'll be like, oh, yeah, this jacket is badass,
and it's warm, and it's waterproof and it's wind proof
and it's also breathable, and like that's you probably would
(03:14):
be much better off with three cheaper jackets and one
very very expensive jacket. Interesting, specifically, I guess I've seen
a lot of people come a cropper when their very
single jacket gets wet, right, and then you're either got
one layer or you commit to wearing a wet jacket.
So we're going to talk about the different parts of
your clothing system, what you should look for and why
(03:37):
you should pick certain things. I'll try and recommend things
that are cheap as well, because I know that money
is hard to come by and the world seems to
be constantly trying to extract money from us. So this
system's based on Do you know who Mark Twite is, Serene.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, I don't know who Mark Twite is. But I'm
looking at the same document you are, and I read
his name maybe six times, and every time it was
Mark Twain and I was so confused.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
But it's marked legendary mountaineer. Mark Twain is equally good
for you know, if you're going on a boat down
the Mississippi River or climbing a mountain exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
But no, I don't know who mister Twight is.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Mister Twitt's a famous mountaineer. He's good at climbing mountains.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Oh that's cool, that's cool to be famous for that.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, A boy can dream, like maybe
maybe in another life I'll not have to podcast. I'll
just be able to raise fluffy animals and climb climbing
the mountain sheep. Yeah, that is the dream, you know,
every year, every time I don't want to sit down
and write my book and think about the amount of
livestock I could possibly purchase it. But lots of lots
(04:43):
of books dream. Yeah, Well, one day talking me sheep, Actually,
let's talk about basse layers because one of the things
they could be made out of, showing is wool from sheep.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Nice, that was good.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, I know. Ye I am a professional podcast guy.
So you basically there's the thing unx your skin right,
and a lot of people I think this is where
like people say, have you heard the phrase cotton kills? No? No,
yeah you've not heard that. Okay, I have not heard that.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I mean, I'm glad you're making an episode about this,
cause like most of the things I've learned about keeping
warm have just been like things I've heard, you know
what I mean. I've never like researched what actually will
help me or what will help other people, because I
think like even like when you provide, when you are
going to provide or like cheaper options, that's a good
thing to like donate to people too, now you know
(05:37):
what will actually help them versus like something else.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
But yeah, totally, Like I know, like for a lot
of un housed people for instance, like you'll get donated
a lot of crappy cotton t shirts, but those are terrible,
right that the little gaps in the cotton, they get
wet and they stay wet, and it's much worse to
be cold and wet than it is just to be cold, right,
And these the whole system of clothing designed by Mark Twite,
(06:05):
Mark Twain's brother Mark White. The idea is not to
keep you dry. The idea is to let you dry
off quickly. Right, So you can get wet, you can sweat,
but it's much more preferential to be able to dry
off quickly. And that's all cotton doesn't do. And so
that's why cotton is considered to be like your worst
choice here. So if your base layer, you want to
(06:26):
go with the two options, I guess well, it's it's
like many things, it's a continuum, not a binary. And
so you've got wool on one end and you've got
synthetic on the other end. Wool is really nice because
it doesn't smell right, Like if you have like athletic clothing,
that synthetic can get really stinky. If you wear it
(06:46):
for a few days, it only gets stinkier. Wool tends
to be much better for that. It also doesn't catch
fire and melt to you, which if that's important in
your line of work, then then that's useful. Wool is
naturally fire retardant. Really where it's like, yeah, yeah, does
everyone know this? Clearly? No, charene, but.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Sheep are sheep fire proof? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I mean I think obviously high enough temperature would still
be fatal for them. But yeah, take yeah, yeah, yeah,
when we don't respect the sheep enough.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Very powerful ability.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah yeah, there's not even a sheep Pokemon that could
like Pokemon. As you said that, I was like, what
a good defense? Well yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone send me
a picture of a sheep Pokemon that you've designed, and
I will describe it on the podcast. It's unfortunately not
a visual medium, but I'd still like to see your
sheep yours, all right, so will it's flame retarding. It's
very useful in certain lines of work. It's not so
(07:52):
important for other people. But I will say that, like
even sitting around the campfire. It is actually really shitty
if your clothes melt to you. I've had gloves melt
on my hands and it was unpleasant. Wow, that was
only like a little bit. But again I can I
can assure you that people sitting around campfires do have
their clothing catch on fire. This is not like a thing.
(08:14):
It's why all your tents have to be treated with
a flame retardant treatment. It's that stuff that makes when
you're tent. You know, if you put a tent away
where it's wet and hot, you leave it at the
back of your truck, it gets really sticky when you
when you get out. That's a frame retardant treatment on
your tent. Oh, then lot about fire today. So the
the problem with will though, is that you have to
(08:35):
treat it with care, like you don't want to be
tumble drying wool right, and it can kind of get misshapen.
There are like hybrids, the thing called new yarn, which
I like a lot, which is like a wall synthetic hybrid.
I have lots of clus stuff made of that, and
then there are full synthetic things like have a little
(08:56):
base layer here. Again this being mainly a podcast. Scharene
can see this.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Describing a piece of clothing. It looks like cloth.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
All right, we're going to be fucked for the next
hour or so.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But what am I looking at it? It's like it
look kind of like textured or something.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So it's like this, yes, yes, it's ribbed. I'll try
to sleeve. We've just move right past that. It's it's ribbed,
and that's to allow like the little bits that touch
your skin keep you warm, but then the channels allow
for it to breathe right from monaster, to move away
and wik away from your body.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So that's that's the synthetic hybrid or.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This is synthetic. It's spandex and polyester. It's got this
like it's very thin, you can see through it, but
it's also very warm by company called Beyond Clothing. I
would caution people against having too thick if you're planning
on actually hiking or being active or like, you know,
let's say you work in construction, you work in agriculture,
(09:59):
maybe just have a job you have to go to
remote places. You're a doctor who has to treat people
at remote places, or you win turbine engineer, or you
work on the railway lines or something. You know, if
you're going to be active, having too thick of a
base layer could be really annoying because if it heats up,
that's kind of your last option. And if it's really
thick and you try to rely on that for most
of your warmth, then you're going to overheat. And then
(10:21):
when you overheat, you're going to sweat a lot. Or
when you sweat a lot, that sweat is saying going
to soak your layer right, and then when it gets cold,
you're going to be wet and cold, and that is bad.
So consider if your base layer like a lightweight or
a midlight thing, and try and get your warmth from
something else. It's whatever suggest. I really like the new
yarm ones. Like I said, there's one made by Black
(10:43):
Diamond called a Rhythm T shirt, which I really like.
I've loaded those. They are often on sale. You can
get them really cheap. If you're looking for something really cheap,
I would say to just avoid cotton, so you can
look for things which are polyester or nylon, and those
are going to be a lot better than just your
T shirt. They are going to smell, they're going to
get pretty stinky. But you can often find them for
(11:05):
around the same price. Right, and if it's very cold,
you may want basic layers your legs as well. Good
ones for those are hard to get cheap. I like
ones that zip all the way off, like like like
you know, like like Chipendale style. Yeah, but you want
zips all the way down the side, Oh, zippers, so
they're up pull on no, yeah, but because then you
(11:27):
have to take your boots off.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, So if you're well, I think of everything.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Drop your trousers, put those on, because taking your boots
off in the snow and then hopping around, no.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I mean it sounds very impractical. So that's cool they
thought of that. That's very smart.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, it's a nice it's a nice.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Technology has to give less many things. There's a company
called cou who's chiefly hunting company, but they make a
really nice like side zip leg bas layer, which I
think I would recommend for a lot of people if
it's really cold where you are with I guess trousers generally,
it's they're a lot less complicated than upper layers. But
the things you want in the cold really are again
(12:10):
something that's not going to like cause you to sweat
a lot, so I wouldn't suggest everyone like going around
in waterproof trailers. I really like ones that have vents,
like mechanical vents, so you can open up so you
can cool off these guys. Right, Like, the pockets are mesh,
so if you open the pocket, not only can you
(12:32):
get your accessories out, but you can also like vent
off the heat that way, and so that way you
don't soak them out with sweat. Right. There's a company
called Beyond who makes every possible weight and size of trouser.
I really like their stuff. I use this stuff a lot.
You can get kneepad pockets as well, which are super useful,
not only if you're like like you see them in
(12:54):
military gear a lot, but if you're working, saying, construction
or carpentry or something that you have to kneel a lot.
It's a really nice table on kneepad, So those get
a recommendation for that. For a cheap one, the Proana
make a parent called the stretch Zion, which I think
is really nice. Climb in them all the time. They
can often be found really cheap. Your next thing is
(13:16):
your active insulation, so that's you need to warm yourself
when you're active, right, So there's two types of insulation.
The system is active and static. One is for when
you're moving and the other is for where you're stationary,
and your active insulation is People used to call this
a mid layer, but that was back when people wore
like wool jumpers and you kind of had to keep
(13:38):
it covered from the world or it will get wet
and stretched out and very very heavy. But sometimes this
will actually be outer layer, So I don't think mid
layer is a great term. That's what they used to
call it. People used to use fleeces a lot. Fleeces
are fine, but again they can get very very heavy
if they get wet. Some of them don't breathe very well,
and they can sort of very quickly become too hot
(13:59):
of your exercising, and they're not very wind proof. They
don't block the wind at all, so much better choice
is something called a grid fleece. So like the base
layer was talking to you about, it has like a
little grid pattern that allows for moisture and air to
move away from your body, so like you're less likely
to overheat. There's a really cool fabric called Polo Tech Alpha,
(14:23):
which you should look for rather than like looking for
a specific item. If you look for Polartech Alpha or
Polotech Alpha direct, then you can scat around for stuff
that's some sale and find something that's really nice. It
kind of looks a bit fleecy, but it's also a
grid pattern. It's really warm and it's very small. I
have a few things that are like made of that.
(14:43):
I have one from a moot called the Alpha sixty.
So there are different weights, right, sixty ninety one twenty
sixty is the least. I think ninety it's grams for
square meter, but ninety grams for square meter is pretty
much a good mid zone for almost everyone. So that's
what to look for in those if you're looking for
a cheap midless or a cheap way to stay warm
while you're moving around. The US military has this thing
(15:06):
called a waffle top because inside of it looks like
a waffle right, I guess grid was. They like to
give things baby names in the US Army. Oh LUKX,
suren's got one. Yeah like that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I love waffle top. I'm always pulled all the time, so.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'm also a cold person. Yeah, I do love a waffletop. Yeah,
but yeah, those waffletops. You can get them super cheap
everywhere online. I would caution people against getting it can
be easy to find, like a thing where it's got
like a waffle back ere and a soft shell front
and it's like your windshll your rain shell. But those
are really warm, and they're really big and bulky, and
(15:43):
it's quite hard to wear them if you're actually moving
with any sort of intention. So that's where you want
to keep your things separate, so you can choose choose what,
like exactly how warm you are where then being forced
to be like a certain level of warm. Talking of
forcing people to do things, Charene, Wow, it's time for
(16:04):
us to force them to listen to some adverts.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We're back, so Charene's voice, and we are talking now
about the other part of keeping yourself warm, which is
static insulation. This is the big warm jacket. Everyone likes,
your happy jacket, the one that makes the cold go away. Right.
The deal here is that like a big puffy jacket
(16:39):
is pretty crappy to war again, if you're moving with
any intention, right, like, unless it's seriously like arctic cold,
then it's hard to hike or climb in a big
puffy jacket. So what this guy is for is for
when you stop moving. So if you're hiking, that would
mean when you stop to regrow, you stop to have
(17:00):
a snack or to put your camp together or whatever.
It's good to have like a really big jacket that
is warm that you can toss on immediately. Putting clothes
on once you are cold is generally not the deal.
The deal that is putting them on so you don't
get cold, because all you're doing with all these layers, right,
(17:23):
is trapping air against your body that is warm. That's
what the little the grid parts and the grid fleece do,
and that's what all the little feathers in the down
jacket do, right. They're just trapping pockets of air that
you heat up. So if you wait till you're really cold,
it's going to take you a lot longer to get
to get warm. The thing to do is once when
you're moving you're nice and warm, you stop, you're gonna
(17:44):
get cold. So if you toss on that jacket then
you can stay cold. I say warm down jackets are
really complicated. If there are a couple of issues with
like cheap down jackets that make them probably best avoided.
One is the but if you're not using ethically sourced down,
that the industry can be pretty abusive, right. That down
(18:08):
is comprised of feathers that come from ducks and geese.
It's not very nice to ducks and geese to kill
them and steal their feathers. And if you're going to
do it at all, if that's something that you choose
to do, you should at least try and find ethically
sourced down, in my opinion. The other thing is that
down natural down, when it gets wet, it clumps up
(18:29):
and it doesn't work anymore. It doesn't insulate you, right,
no like nicer downs modern more like modern downs are
treated with water repellent coating, so they don't tend to
do that as much. But the other thing was down
is that like a lot of numbers get thrown at
(18:51):
you when you're looking at a down jacket, Like if
you look at the money Internet, it's all kinds of information.
Some of that stuff is bullshit. The things that are
important are the fill power and the fill weight. The
fill power is it tells you how many cubic inches
of loft one ounce of that down will fill, So
a higher number is better, right, a higher number is
more puffy, And then your feel weight tells you how
(19:14):
much of that down is used in a jacket. So
a higher fill power jacket with a lower let's say,
a four hundred four power jacket with sixty grams of
feel weight would be as warm as an eight hundred
fold power jacket with thirty grams of feel weight. So
once you get your phil power and your feel weight,
then you get a pretty good idea of how warm
(19:36):
a jacket is going to be. So the other alternative
to natural down is synthetic down. Right. Where that stands
out is like it can get wet, and you can
generally like baby it a bit less, but it doesn't
pack down as well, and it is tends to be heavier,
and you don't get feel power, but you do get
(19:57):
feel weight. So if you're the jacket I use is
synthetic because like I like to shovel in my bag
and sometimes it's wet, or like sometimes it gets a
bit wet, right, I just I don't like to have
to like try and baby it so much. I also,
for ethical reasons, prefer that. There's a company called Prima
Loft p R. I m A. They make synthetic insulation
(20:21):
sort of very good, and they say make some from
post consume recycled plastics and they have something that to
buy degradable as well, so I really like cool. Yeah,
it's cool, right, Like I saw something a while ago
and how ducks and geese are treated pelic down and
it may be very I was like, I.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Didn't really want to ask because I don't really need
to know more than I already do because I don't
buy that stuff anyway. But do they are there birds
that die exclusively for their feathers or at least do
they die for meat and their feathers?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I think they die exclusively. I'm sure they are eaten,
but they are raise like the commercial product is the
feathers basically because they kill them much younger. Yeah, it's shitty.
There are like ethically sourced downs, which I think if
you know, if if you're a consumer of animal products.
(21:15):
For the most part, I avoid than most of my
wall stuff I got before I was vegan. But I
think if you're picking between wall and down, I think
the down industry is it's hard to be mean to
sheep in a way that people are mean to a
poultry because sheep just aren't having it. They'll die.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Also, you're not like shearing wools different than plucking feathers.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, well yeah then killing an animal to Yeah, there's
a distinct thing going on there. So yeah, I prefer
not to have. I have a few down jackets that
you know, but I keep them baby and look after,
but for the most part, I use the generally, these
are called ballet parkers, the sort of static insulation layer
because when you're balleting, when you're climbing, right, you don't
(21:58):
put them all for climbing, but then when you're on blet,
you're stationary, so you put them on. And it's nice
to have a hood on these two, right, because you
don't want to be like, oh, I've got to get
my beanie out, get my jacket on. You want to
just be able to put your one big warm jacket
on and then you're warm.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So is it true that you can lose like heat
from your head and you're or like I've always heard
that like if you wear a beanie you can stay
warm better. Is that not true?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean you can lose heat from your head,
and so it's a part of your body.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I mean, okay, I know technically that makes sense. Yeah,
but yeah, it's like you lose a mom thing to
say to their kids where it's just like cover your head,
don't go out when your hairs wor.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, you can lose heat from any sort of exposed
surface area right and insulated part of your body. I
think sometimes people overestimate their role played by your head.
Like you know, people say you lose ninety percent of
your heat from your head. This isn't true, right, Okay,
this is why we don't climb mountain into like fur
hats and speedos. Like you you do want to cover
(23:00):
your head when it's cold, and it can make a
big difference, especially like your ears. You know, where the
circulation is close to the skin, they can get cold
your nose, right, you can get frost nip your nose
and your ears. So like you do want to cover
those things, having like a kafa or snowed is that
what it's called.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I don't know. Okay, but that's enough.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, okay, a buff is a trade name a buffoble thunder. Yeah,
a caf is a great suggestion.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, I have a kafa that I've worn up
and down many mountains. It's really nice because if you
tuck it into the neck of your jacket kind of
blocks or the wind gaps, and then it's already warm
because it's it's been inside there. So when you go
from jacket to sleeping bag, you just wrap that guy
around your shoulders and then it's you're warm. Multi purpose
(24:01):
I love. And also if you have a kafa, you
can use it to prefilter water, right because you want
to get rid of the turbidity. So like if you
if you're filtering from buddy water, you can put your
kafa over the lid of your bottom and then rub
a band down scoop. Yeah. Yeah, many used to make
a sling out of it. I won't use it to
hold gauze on a leg wound that I had. Well,
(24:24):
people lived a wife, Yeah, many of mycrofias lived a life.
Just I'm just here for the ride. So yeah, that's
your your down jack if you do want like a
down animal down duck down jacket. The cataline ones are
really good for the money. The cathline is a French
sports It's like French ARII or European ari It's huge
(24:44):
in Europe, not so big in America, but there's stuffs
excellent value. Also, if you want to get really dorky
about down jackets and warm jackets, the ultra light subreddit
a place where I definitely go sometimes more time than
I should, is you you can find like someone has
made a spread cheet ranking like the fill power, fill weight,
(25:04):
and price of different down jackets. So if you want
to get into it, you can get really into it there.
You can spend a lot of your life on that
subreddit if you want to. So the next layer, and
it kind of plays into the the two insulation things.
It's your wind layer. So a lot of the way
we experience cold as humans is through wind, right because
(25:27):
of the way, that's why we have the concept of
wind chill right, or the air rushing past you, cause
you a lot more than that same temperature without the
air rushing past you. And this is often how we
experience cold and the outdoors especially right. So having something
like active insulation is great, but often like that alpha
(25:47):
fabric for instance, it's you can see through it. It
can be very warm, but it doesn't do anything to
bluck the wind, and that's sort of by design, right,
because it's allowing vapor to move out, which is what
you want, but you do sometimes, especially in windy conditions,
need a layer to block the wind. That's your wind layer.
It also helps a lot in not trashing your expensive
(26:07):
insulation layers, like a very nice down jacket will sometimes
have a very low the Denny account is like the
thickness of the fabric, So a nice down jacket will
still can often have a low Denny account. It's not
really designed to be like it's not like recently, I've
been out in cucumber building shelters for people, right, so
I'm constantly carrying lumber and you know, using tools and
(26:29):
cutting stuff. And if you wear your fancy, expensive, super
light down jacket, you're going to shred it and then
you're going to end up with little patches of duct
tape all over it. And now you're expensive down jacket's
not as warm as it used to be. Well, yeah,
sad time for you. So you can avoid this by
either just not wearing it for that or covering it
(26:52):
with a wind layer, which also helps because even those
down jackets often like the wind can get right through them.
A wind layer is is a really nice option for
a number of those reasons. Also, you can often just
worry about your base lay and even down to pretty
cold when you're moving trail running, like people trail run,
I'm sure they'll have have already know this, but if
(27:14):
you're hiking, your trail running, if you're climbing, a wind
layer can really like increase the range of temperatures which
you can work in without getting too cold. And like
a very small mind is like the size of maybe
a tennis ball when I pack it down, but it
makes you a lot warmer. And you don't want one
that blocks all of the wind because then you won't
(27:36):
be able to it won't be breathable. Right, Oh, you
want something that's a little bit breathable. The one I have,
I looked up the one I like. It's called a
mouth in hardware core air shell, but core is spelled
with a K. How you know it's cool? Yeah, you
got to you got to get it in, got to
get it in this and where, and then wear is
(27:57):
spelled like you know, like like wearing clothes, so double
puns on their spellings. It's made of the stuff called
pertext quantum air, which is really cool. It feels like
silky but it's a synthetic fabric and it's really nice
and it's very small, and it's very light, and you
could put it in and if you had, like if
you're wearing like cargo trousers, you know you can put
(28:19):
it in the side pocket or cargo short if you're
that kind of person. So those If you're looking for
a cheaper thing to block the wind, like you can
find pretty cheap wind cheaters right out there. You don't
want something that's very plastic key and then kind of
clammy you're going to sweat up in. You can get
surplus British wind proof smocks that are really nice. I
(28:40):
use those all the time when I'm working outside because
I uploads of pockets. They're nylon cotton blends, so they're
not all cotton, and they they're very like robust. You know,
they're not going to wear wear down or like get destroyed.
If you're carrying lumber or rock climbing, right, if you're
into clam like a lot of this stuff, will you
(29:02):
need something with a thicker face fabric otherwise you're going
to destroy it when you're climbing, especially if you're climbing
somewhere like Joshua Tree where like the rock is like
sandpaper and it eats your clothing. The final layer is
your waterproof, right, It's a final one because like you
want to avoid wearing your waterproof really, Like I think
(29:25):
far too many people where like they rely on waterproof
coats when it's not raining enough to need one. The
problem with waterproofs is if rain can't come in, moisture
can't really come out. Even fabrics like gortex per text
and that they say that they're breathable, but I think
anybody who's tried to exercise hard in a gortex jacket
will tell you that they're not. Like, if you're hiking
(29:49):
with a group and you'll put on your gortex, then
you need to move slower because you're going to overheat,
and then you're going to get wet from the inside
because you're sweating, and that's not what you want. So
waterproof is important because when it's really wet and you're outside,
you don't want to get soaked, right, But it's also
(30:09):
not something you should be wearing most of the time.
What you want to look for in a waterproof again,
there are like statistics numbers. One of them is the
it's the pressure resistance of the fabric. Like it's expressed
in the as the height of a water column in
millimeters until it can push through the water resistance of
(30:31):
the fabric. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
No, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you for beet honesty. That's good if you imagine
like that, Like I have a tube, right, it's a
linear tube like a cylinder, and then I put it
on my waterproof fabric. Right, I put my waterproof fabric
at the bottom of the tube, and then I put
one milimeters of water. It doesn't do anything. Two mil
three meals for keep adding until until it pushes through
(30:56):
the fabric.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So that's that's called like a pressure.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
What do you get, Yeah, that's a pressure. It's sometimes
expressed in pounds per square inch as well.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
It's useful if you're like skiing or snowboarding, like sifety
of your skiing or snowboarding badly and you're going to
spend a lot of time like sat in your ass
then or you know, otherwise working in snow, like kneeling
in snow. That's very handy. There's also a statistic which
is probably more useful. It's the millimeters of rain in
twenty four hours before it like wets out and becomes permeable.
(31:27):
So if you live somewhere really wet, like Belgium or
the UK, Belgium just sticks out in my head as
a place where it rained all the time, but maybe
that's just my bitterness. You're looking for, like something in
the twenty thousand range. That's a jacket that you can
pretty much wear all day in the wet and be fine.
Gortex Pro Fabric, I know it's twenty eight thousand, so
that's kind of your gold standard, but anything over twenty
(31:51):
thousand it is fine. And then breatheability is the last one.
Moisture vapor transfer rate, and again anything over twenty thousand
is good. The other thing to look for in a
waterproof is taped seams, like you know, the bits where
it stitch together. If there isn't tape behind those seams,
then water can get in through that stitching. And like
(32:11):
I've seen people get very expensive jackets which in explicably
don't have tape seams. I think it's like maybe a
fashion jacket or something, but I have like wet like
down every seam, Like they take off their jacket.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
With a group of like people just that are wearing
these kinds of clothing and just like you judging them.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Quietly, that's me every day, serene every day when you
see me, I'm judging people for their outdoor clothing. It
just it just happens inside my head. It's my inside ways.
I'm happy that people are outside and I just want
them to have a comfortable and enjoyable experience.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
That's a good like thing to focus on if you
want to, like make sure it's like not a fashion
jacket versus like utilitary and whatever. You know, like is
it going to actually be helpful or are you just
going to look cool or is it.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Going to do Yeah, you can do both, Like you
should feel good in what you're wearing and wear things
that make you feel happy about yourself and your body.
And however you want to appear is fine. Like I
don't give a fuck, just want you to be comfortable
and safe.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
But he will judge you.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That won't judge you. I would judge you if you're
doing something that might put you in danger or someone
more accually, like you can put yourself in danger in it,
and I don't care. Like, if you want a free solo,
fucking have it, but don't put other people in danger
without their consent. I guess which you're doing if you
go outside, because someone has to come get you if
you get in trouble out there, and that's not at
(33:37):
risk free endeavor. Right, returning from my judgmental character to
waterproof jackets, you know, te you know what else, I
am judging how my voice out. I'm remaining a loop
from judgment. I would never but but I am judging
your products and services and support this show, and I'm
(33:59):
judging them or because gold is not a good way
to spend your money.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But we still love our jobs.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
We do love our jobs, Yeah we do. I do
enjoy my job. I like my job. I just I
want you to have nice jackets and not Runald Reagan
commemorative coins. So here's some adverts. We're back, and yeah,
(34:31):
we're going to talk a little bit more about waterprop jackets.
I think it's important. The other thing you want to
look for, right, So your your tape seems are good.
And then I like to have mechanical venting, which.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Is yeah you mentioned that earlier.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What does that mean? So this is these events that
I can open, where as opposed to venting through the fabric,
I want to vent through a zip that I can
open up, right, So, like I'm wearing a puffy jacket
right now, that's a mechanical vent right. Why am I
saying that jacket? Yeah, Charene can see me. No one
(35:07):
else can. It's like the sixth sense. I'm a dead
person and Scharen is the only person who can see
me that is.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Can I just get that straight? So just unzipping your
jacket counts as mechanical venting.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, So like if you have a nice waterproof jacket,
it will have pit zips.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Okay, got it? Just want a spot a fancy waight,
just to say unzipping some.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well yeah yeah, okay, well because you but you want
like this, This is not right. If I unzip and
it's a pocket inside, that's not mechanical venting because zipped.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
A chest pocket. For those listening, everyone.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, welcome to the podcast. But I do stuff, and
Charene tells you what I do. Yes, pockets are not
mechanical events, right, but you went away. So you've got
pit zips. Some of them will have chest zips. Okay,
waves to force that hot air out and allow breathe
ability to happen. Right, So I like that in in
(36:00):
Raine jackets. And then I also like a hood right
because it's having a wet head isn't fun. And so
this is this one. I liked to have a hood,
and the Bellot Parker, I like to have ahood sometimes
the wind jacket. I like toberhood if you're doing climbing
and you're doing I never really wear a hood when
I'm cycling, but other helmet actively if you're caving or canyoneering,
(36:22):
might be a good idea to check the hood situation
with the helmet that you wear for that activity. So
like for climbing, you know, you lots of people will
say they have a helmet compatible hood, but I don't
know what helmet those people are wearing because they don't
fell over like even a pretty low profile climbing helmet.
So if you know, if you can go to your
loco outdoor shop, take take your helmet, you know, don't
(36:44):
don't be afraid of trying on with a helmet on.
And you want these all really to be cut to
allow you to move right. A lot of modern outdoor
gear it looks really nice like when you're going about town,
but it's cut kind of too tight in there. It
looks very trendy. It can inhibit your movement, right, and
so you want to be aware of that. You may
(37:05):
have to size up. And it's not because you've got bigger,
it's because close I've got smaller.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Also, if you're layering, that would make sense anyway, right.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, definitely. And you want to have your water proof
cut so it can go over your stuff, right, because
if it rains, you just want to chuck that thing on.
And likewise, you want to have that big ballet Parker
cut so that it can fit over your other layers, right,
because again you want to be able to chuck it
on as soon as you stop. And your windproof jacket too,
so you can use it to protect your more expensive
(37:36):
you can even I know people who do the windproof
jacket over the gortex just to protect it. Right. I
have two gortexs that like, I have one that's very
small and very thin, and that I like keep as
an emergency, like if I don't expect it to rain
or expect for it, but I'm going on a week
long trip, I'm not gonna you know, want to be
(37:58):
completely fucked if it rains, So I bring a little one.
It's called the Mountain Hardware minimizer. Kind of the name
gives away, but it's just very small. It's made of
gortex pack light, which is like the lower tier of
acceptable gortex. It's fine, you know, like a go outside
a lot and I use it and it's fine. It
doesn't breathe quite as well, but you can again overcome
(38:21):
that rete with some with them zips that don't zip.
And then if it's going to be red all day,
I have a jacket that's a bit heavier, thicker, packs bigger,
but the one I have is from a hunting company
called four Low lo h. It's really nice. Often, for
some reason, hunting stuff in recent years has got a
lot better, and outdoor stuff kind of has used to.
(38:42):
Hunting stuff used to be shitty, but it's kind of
overtaken it for some reason. And sometimes it's also nice
to have stuff that isn't bright orange and it isn't
like you have a theory of why that is because
people have a metrics shit ton of money and wealthy
people have got into backgoundry hunting because they were I
have a big dead thing, but these are not people
(39:03):
who maybe some people, some people are sending it really
fucking hard doing hunting and doing like ten twelve day hunts.
And they're hardcore out doors people as well, and they're
very wealthy people. They like to be uncomfortable and they
will spend a lot of money on expensive jackets. That's
my theory. Yeah, thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Those are the two things that you really want with
any waterproof you do need to take care of them.
(39:27):
I think with gor Tex that everyone should be aware of.
It has what are called forever plastics in it, and
they are really not good for the environment. And not
only are they not good for the environment when it's made.
And this isn't just Gortex, right, I'm not. Gortex is
a brand. They make fabrics, and I'm not just saying
it's with all those like those those kinds of multi
(39:48):
layer laminate waterproofs. And it's not just when they're made,
it's also when water sloughs off them. Right, So when
it rains on you and then that the rain you know,
the rain drop goes into the three and the stream
goes into the river, and the river goes into the ocean,
that little forever plastics are still there, and that's not good.
I would imagine as with many things, it's more not
(40:09):
good than we know right now. So some brands like
fiol Ravan won't use gortex and this stuff for that reason,
they don't have any forever plastics. Instead they use waxes.
I think people are kind of maybe have forgotten or
like you don't see as much of it as you
used to. But wax jackets are really good if it's
going to rain all day, if you're not so concerned
(40:29):
about weight, you can get like a waxed cotton jacket
or waxed canvas jacket like car Heart makes some right
or Filson have a nice Filson jacket that they were
a lot and it's way less fragile, but it is
much heavier, but it's also better for the planet. So
that's something If you do have a goratex jacket, like
it's not something that I feel good like having five
(40:51):
gortex jackets, you know, and like buying new ones every year,
like you should try and take care of them. And
there's a product called nick Wax which is really good.
You should use nick waxsuff when you're watching any of
your outdoor. If you're washing down, you should use nick
Wax down wash or you're really fuck up your expensive
down jacket. So I think that's a good thing. And
then yeah, wax, Like, consider how often you're really out
(41:13):
in an absolute downpour and if that's not very often,
like maybe you're okay with a wind layer or like
just waxing the shoulders of of your like have a
cotton jacket behind me that I just wax the shoulders off,
but like it's like a smock with lots of pockets
and I just put wax. I bought some Greenland wax,
which is which is a fear ratheran thing, and wax
(41:35):
the shoulders so the shoulders are impermeable to water.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Does it look different like the does it look like shiny?
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, it looks a little bit shiny, but like it's
not bad and if you do it like better than me,
then then it won't look as shiny. But can you
can see that? No, it's not that bad. It's not.
It's kind of fun And maybe other people do other
things for fun, but I kind of like it. You
get a head and you grab the wax on and
then you melt it in with the head ryer. That's
(42:03):
what I do on Saturday nights. Insight into my life.
So the last thing that I wanted to talk about
was extremities. Right, I have rainos where like to really? Yeah?
Really rainos at hand?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Someone else that has it? No, Yeah, like yellow right now,
I mean not yellow if I press them yellow, but
like it's well, my feet and hands are always cold
all the time.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah yeah, yeah, same, and it's miserable. I hate having
cold hands.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Literally look at this. Wait, I just bought these recently.
These are electric hand warmers. Oh wow, trouble and I
keep them now. I just walk around with these all
the time.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's great. Yeah, it is nice to have warm hands.
And if you too, if you're a fellow hands colder,
there are some things you can do. I think sometimes
people wear really thick gloves that that stop the hands moving,
that doesn't really increase circulation, or they'll have cold wrists
and then it's kind of there's like a temperature. You
know that blood's getting cold or it's in your hands.
(43:09):
So I found like having a base layer or a midle,
a active insulation lare with thumb loops really helps because
then thumb loops make sure that the sleeve goes all
the way into the glove, and I would encourage you,
rather than wearing one big ass pair of gloves, to
have like a glove. I know this sounds really dorky,
but like a glove system. So like a thin lacy
(43:30):
glove and then a shell glove which is either waterproof
or wind proof, and then if you want to, you
can then stack that with a mitten on top of that. Right. Yeah,
I love emittletons are so cute. Yeah, get your person
who sews in your life to so your par emittans.
Have them join with a little string so you can
(43:51):
run that through the sleeves of your jacket. You don't
lose them. I used to have those.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, me too. I feel like or maybe I just
imagined having one. Can't figure out what our memories and
what are memories anymore, but I love those kinds of mittens.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, maybe I'll make gum that you so shreen James. Yeah,
I can't believe you have.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
How did you say in British boys mittens no renown
rains rainers.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
How you're saying so reino they're French? Ye guessing? Yeah? Yeah,
I think mine. Maybe I don't know, maybe it's just
from being naturally cold, but holding onto the handlebars of
a bicycle. Racing over cobbles has really fucked the circulation
and sensation in my hands. Yeah, the same thing that
happens if you work a jackhammer. Wow, hands get cold. Yeah,
(44:47):
it's good, not good, not good for the human and
body to do anything that much out of research. Make
a good glove system, but they only make it for
the military and they won't sell it to you, which
is lame. Yeah, there's a lot of like so one
of the reasons that some of this surtplus clothing comes
up is because it's designed as a system, which is good. Right,
(45:09):
it's one piece designed to work with another piece. And like,
for instance, Patagonia makes a protective combat uniform for the army.
As much as it would like to not talk about it,
it's still true and I've written about it before. But
they make a really good system and it's great and
scuffs got like. They actually have like this little graphic
(45:29):
that's like if it's this cold, where this, If it's
this cold and wet, where this, If it's this cold
and windy, where this. And it's very handy for people,
especially people who may not have grown up or had
that kind of experience or just had the chance to
try different products because they're very expensive. Right, It's very
handy to be like, Okay, this is and this, and
then you only need these five or six pieces that way,
as opposed to having dozens of jackets and dozens of
(45:50):
different things for different weathers. So like it. It works
very well, and it frustrates me that they don't do
the same thing when selling to people who are not
in the military. So the other things I wanted to
do with extremity is real quick socks, socks. It goes
the same way as gloves that you don't want to
(46:11):
a sock system. Yeah, I'm glad that you're picking up
when I'm picking down a Serene.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I have a sock system, but it's not you're It's
not anything about this. Yeah, well, my feet are always
called this is not a sock. But I do wear
this in my house.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Oh wow, Charene is showing me. Uh it looks like uh,
it's kind of a moon boot but made a fluff.
It looks like a yetty's foot.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
It's very warm. I don't wear shoes in my house,
so I either always have those slippers on or socks.
But my sock system is these socks can never mingle.
I have outside socks, I have house socks, and I
have bed socks, and those socks remain in their sections.
An outdoor sock cannot come in my bed. Does that
(47:02):
make sense? It does.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I'm fascinated to learn more about this when we start recording.
I'm going to inquire more about charines sock collection. Yeah,
very interesting to be anyway.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, that's eroticism. But I think so the same thing
with gloves. You're saying like they should be layered.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, I mean with socks, I think the big thing
is to like not always be trying to I think
people want to wear like a big thick wall sock
because it's cold, and then if you're kind of crammed
that into your same boot, you're going to restrict circulation.
You're not gonna be able to move your feet right.
So what I would do instead is either have a
(47:40):
couple of pairs of thin socks or use a warmer
fabric so like our paka wool is very warm for
its weight. The other nice thing about woll socks is
again the insulate when they're wet, right, so your feet
are going to sweat you're moving and so you want
something that's not going to get your feet cold, especially
(48:00):
your person who already gets cold feet. So Marina wool
is good, our packer wool is very good. But yeah,
you don't want to restrict with like one big fluffy sock.
You can get insulated boots if it's really cold, I
right down until below freezing. I don't like insulated boots
because again I don't like my feet to get sweaty.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
And well, you wear on your feet for that kind
of weather.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
They get really cold. Just gortex boots, and I wear
the same boots for almost everything unless it's like jungle.
If you're going to get wet, like goratex boots suck,
right because I take forever to dry. So like, if
you're in the jungle and the water is going to
come over your boots, then you shouldn't wear gortex boots.
If you're not, I have some. You like to know
(48:44):
exactly what boots I have? Sure?
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I mean we're not sponsored though, maybe no?
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did get some of this shit
for free when I was working in the outdoor industry,
but no one's paying us to say this. I have
Solomon Quest four D. I think I have of.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Wait, I have those?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Which ones do I have? I did like a bunch
of research a couple years ago when I got my
new hiking boots. I feel like I have the Solomons
or are those were the ones? I? No, no, no,
I do have the Solomons because I returned the other
one that everyone likes, the witches. What's it called hokahs
the whole focus.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Oh yeah, no, hogas make lovely running shoes. I'm not.
I don't have a preference for that.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I think there were. I mean, I just didn't understand
the hype. So I remember switching over to or returning
those and getting the Solomons. Wow, look at us.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah yeah, Team Solomon over here. They're vegan too.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, that's fun. If you have leather boots, you can
snow seal them around this time of year, but then
there'll be a bit less breathe will with a bit
more waterproof. But yeah, consider not overcramming, like thick socks
into boots are the same size. If you if you're
going to get a specific pair of winter boots, get
the massage bigger, and then you could wear a thicker
sock I would probably do that before I went to
(49:55):
an insulated boot until it was really cold, like arctic stuff,
you don't need an insulated boot. Maask makes some nice
insulated boots that I've used. And then hats is the
last one. Hats again, like it depends a little bit
on the temperature. But I have a couple of wool
beanies that I got years and years and years ago,
and they're very good and they're very warm, and the
(50:17):
only thing is when they get wet, they kind of
stretch out a bit, so they don't love getting wet.
You might want to put a hood over yourself. Otherwise.
A flee speanie is really good. People are sleeping on
the flea speanie, but like a micro flee stretchy beanie,
it's very nice. I tend to take them when I
travel because I'm a cold person and planes are cold.
(50:39):
So if I have that and my little Kafa in
my bag, then I can kind of wrap myself up
on the plane and I probably look a bit weird
to everyone else, but I don't care because I am
warm and planes are cold. I think that it's the
end of my ted talk on warm clothing. I talked
for an hour about cold Cusherine, I didn't think we
(51:00):
keep it under an hour? Really yeah, No, I've been
draining my whole life for this shit. Like I love,
I used to like my whole job used to be
to tell people what to wear and take with them
when they go outside. Wait really so yeah? Outdoor industry
journalists who are years That was how I started my
little when I was little baby journals. The expert here,
(51:22):
a little baby journalist, I wrote, I don't think I'm
an expert, but I will say, well, I'll tell you what.
There's my other little soapbox. You will read a lot
of reviews, and sometimes, like the reviews for Boots, did
they did Sharen in a good direction. Not everyone who's
writing those reviews is going outside very much, is what
I will say, or sending it very hard. Some of
(51:42):
them are, doubtedly are, but a lot of them are
trying to get you to click a link which will
return a certain percentage to the website that you're clicking
the link from, so four or five percent back right,
And you may, for instance, some of the brands I
mentioned here don't have that. It's called affiliate marketing. And
if brands don't have affiliate marketing, you generally can't put
(52:03):
it in articles for lots of magazines about the outdoors.
This is something that I fucking loathe, and you can't
be honest and say this is my favorite thing. Everything's
designed to be seoed and to get you to click
something and to return some affiliate revenue to the website.
So it would take a lot of those reviews with
a pinch of salt. And also just small brands struggle
(52:26):
to get into a lot of into a lot of
magazines because they don't have the marketing money to send
piles and piles of free stuff. So yeah, be cautious
about what you read. And if you look around, you know,
if you're looking at this shit like like I absolutely
have jackets that got several hundred dollars that I got
for free or I made some employer pay for because
(52:49):
I was going somewhere horrifically in hospitable as a human
life like Alaska, or Alaska's actually lovely. I'd like to
live there, That's the dream. Right, one day, I'll podcast
my way to a million dollars raise sheep in Alaska.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
I was looking for tickets to Alaska yesterday.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Actually show we're talking about Alaska. Yeah yeah, those lights,
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, go get after it. But I
don't really support moving to Alaska and colonizing people's land
because you shouldn't do that. Don't do extra colonizing. I'm
already doing enough. I feel bad about it, but so yeah,
(53:25):
I would suggest people take those reviews with a pinch
of salt. There are websites like gear Trade where you
can find new stuff. eBay offer up a lot of
people buy outdoor stuff, go camping, wants, get cold, get wet,
get sad, slap it on the internet and sell it
for pennies versus what it's worth, so you don't have
to buy any of this stuff new. Most of these
(53:45):
companies also have bomber warranties, and I'm just going to
leave that there as to the combination of second hand
purchasing a warranties. But you can probably join the dots.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Well, yeah, thanks for having me for this. I learned
a lot.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Thanks for joining Michriine and sharing with me your sock system.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
I mean, yeah, that was really intimate. No, I think
this stuff is like underrated how important it is I
feel like, I mean, like, unless you're always outdoors and
you're like, you're an outdoorsy person, I think you wouldn't
know exactly the best way to keep warm, And it's
good to know, Like what will actually help someone if
you want to, I don't know, donate stuff to them.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
So yeah, we have been plagued with donations of really
shitty blankets for instance. It's no one's fault. I generally
understand that people care and like it. I'm so proud
that people want to help and it makes me so
happy to see people taking the money that I know
none of us have enough of and buying stuff. But like,
for instance, a thick wall blanket is going to do
so much more than two or three very thin micro
(54:47):
flease blankets. You know, if you're looking towards your local
unhoused community, right again, like think about things that are
durable and that will still insulate when they're wet. Well
if you if you do well, then then that's a
great choice for a lot of those things. And perhaps
we can have one of my own house friends on
to talk about like effective donations. The best way to
(55:09):
help people who are unhoused is to give them money
and that they can buy the things that they need.
Because they know about the things that a good point
and so yeah, yeah, that's my last thing for today.
Give people who need things money so they can buy them.
All right, bye, every one Bye. It could Happen here
(55:33):
as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts
and cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com,
or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
You listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It
could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com
slash sources. Thanks for listening.
It Could Happen Here News
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Robert Evans
Garrison Davis
James Stout
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