Ben Acker on Miller's Crossing

One of Chuck's best industry pals is writer Ben Acker, the man behind Thrilling Adventure Hour and some of your favorite Marvel Comics. Ben and Chuck had a nice, long talk about their shared movie crush, Miller's Crossing. The only reason they quit talking is because they wanted to go get dinner.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Charles W. Chuck
Bryant here right now for this intro piece at the
Pont Studio here in Atlanta, Georgia. But as you will
soon learn, this episode was recorded at our Hollywood studios,
very fancy Hollywood studios. Actually they're not fancy at all,
but they're great right there in the heart of Hollywood.

(00:46):
I went out to l A and got a few
episodes in the can and this one is with Mr
Ben Acker. And Ben, if you don't know his work, uh,
was the co creator and writer of the wonderful live
show Thrilling It Inture Hour that ran for years in
Los Angeles. UM kind of like an old time radio show,
just really really great stuff. Uh. And it was also

(01:07):
released as a podcast you can still get. Ben is
a writer for Marvel Comics. He is a writer of screenplays.
He has written uh Star Wars books. Ben basically is
good with his fingers on the keyboard and is one
of my great great pals. That's why this episode on

(01:28):
Miller's crossing the excellent, excellent Cohen Brothers gangster movie starring
Gabriel Byrne and John Tuturo. That's why this one went
so long because we dived deep into one of my
favorite movies. And uh, if you're a fan of the
Cohen brothers in Miller's Crossing, I get ready for a
Roman Mars Jaws like experience with this as we kind

(01:48):
of go through the entire movie and really geek out
and walk out on what a great, great picture this is. So,
without any further ado, I'm laughing because I just listen
to this one yesterday and to make sure it was
all good, and it was just so much fun for
me to even listen to it because Ben is so funny.
I've often said that if you're in a room full

(02:09):
of comedian types that are all joking and ripping back
and forth, if you just quietly pay attention to Ben
Acker sitting there making his subtle jokes, he's the funniest
person in the room. So, without further ado, here we
go with Ben Acker on Miller's Crossing. All right, well,

(02:30):
let's let's start. I don't do a formal intro. We'll
just like kind of keep rapping. You're gonna do a
formal intro or you no, no, no, I don't, all right,
but we'll just keep talking about stuff right now. Yeah,
the show is going on, So starting now with the show, Yeah,
I mean I'll find an entry point, all right, that
bet it might actually be a funny entry point. I
was gonna say, I don't know how shows work, but um,

(02:54):
I have heard other episodes of this show. Uh, particularly
the Tig episode. Man, that was crazy. That was crazy.
But also then like the Hodgman episode where it's like,
I mean like Tig had a earth shaking experience that
day in a good way, and so there was this
base of the humanity of her as a as an ingredient.

(03:17):
And then Hodgeman has is a conversations I want to say,
where it's like, well, here's the time I spent working
in the video store and what that means like the
I was I was talking to a friend today and
I was, and he has this ability that Hodgeman has
and that Roderick has to the classification in the conversation,

(03:38):
like here's the personal anecdote and then let's zoom out
and see how that represents all of humanity and we
connect to the people. And like I was like, all right, well,
Chuck's doing this show. He's gonna hone his is interviewing skills.
So let's hope that someone in this conversation because I'm
a big like and then I go and then he
goes in a funny punch line, and we're done right

(03:59):
like to this, and then that you didn't see that
kind of took your left, and then we go right,
and then that's it. Is it about something I don't know?
Let history tell us. So hopefully between the two of
us will be able to find I don't know, some
some of the ethereal quality of some of your better guests.
No yet, Well it's just us having a good acker
and the chuck conversation. Wait, I'm the last name in

(04:20):
your first name, all right. I don't know if that's
if that if that's unfair in your direction or my direction.
I don't think I've ever called you've been though, have I?
I don't know. Coming out of it out then probably
you haven't. There are people who don't call people by
their names ever, and then they do and it's not

(04:41):
a big deal, but it sounds like one because the
word is new in their mouth or the person is
new to hearing that version of their name. Yeah, that
was hodgment right, Yeah, Paul, Tompkins was just in here,
but some people call him Paul F. Yeah, sure know
the F stands for I meant to ask him, hansis
I want to say that was gonna be my guests? Yeah,

(05:02):
because he seems like that kind of guy. Totally, He's
a Francis um and he was gonna Actually his first
pick was Topsy Turvy, but that movie is impossible to
find on demand or streaming or iTunes or YouTube, Like
I literally would have to buy it in downtown from
a guy find a TVD player, and I just didn't

(05:23):
have time. So he went up. He said, what about
Miller's Crossing? Was like, yeah, he loves this movie. Um,
did you do it? Did you? Is there gonna be
two Miller's Crossing the comment movie? I told him that
this podcast movie time with chucking Nobody. I guess that's
what it's called. What it called movie crush movie crush? Yeah,

(05:44):
it's good, right, So Paul went and we started. Yeah,
we started. So Paul went with butch casting in this
and nance kid is this third pick? Wow, I can't
believe I scooped Paul. Yeah, he scooped the heck out
of him. We can curse too, though if you want,
you don't need to worry about that. Uh. So you
grew up in why do I want to say Baltimore,

(06:05):
but I know it's the DC area. But was it
DC proper? No? It was Northern Virginia. Oh okay, I'm
well clan, you're not way off. We had the same
radio stations. Okay, he shared. What were the l DC stations? Um? Yeah, probably,
well no Baltimore like hfsc are you from You're not
from around there? You have a twa Yeah, Atlanta, you
know that. Uh, but you had a knowledge of it

(06:29):
that maybe you spent some time. There was a radio
station called w HFS that if you ever, like, if
you live there before a certain point, you would that's
how you Um, that's the shivals For other people that
live there, you're like HFS and they're like, yeah, that
was the cool indie alternative station that had once a year,
I think maybe twice a year the HF festival. That
was the big like, um, Fugazi and they might be

(06:51):
giants are gonna be on on the bill no matter
what or whatever. Like it was the cool place. And
then one day, with no warning and no internet, um boom,
it was it changed formats and you didn't know what
happened here. But that was out of Baltimore. Yah, I'm
pretty sure, but you're from northern Virginia. What's the town? McLean?
What's that like? Suburbs? It was like pretty standard suburbs.

(07:15):
We um. I went back recently for the first time
in a while to find that the ray Rogers became
a McDonald's, and I felt like, that's that's about it.
That figures U. And now there's like yoga and stuff like,
I don't know, it was suburbs. It was. It was
straight like I went to school with politicians kids. Chris
Scalia and I went to our first weird al concert together. Yeah,

(07:39):
good dude, Chris. Wow. So that's that's the son of
An and ben Quail played on like basketball and soccer,
like we were in elementary school together. So when his
father announced, like they announced that he was going to
be the vice presidential candidate, the difference in my life
was going to the gym for basketball practice and the

(08:00):
teams before that we're practicing had secret service dudes around.
That is it? Yeah, where you get a basketball? No,
but I was tall at basketball um six six now
and I was six five two years ago. Like I've
been six five forever. But I went to the doctor
in this past year and they were like, you're six six,
and I'm like, no, yeah, you're six six, which is
crazy in my adult life to like gain it and

(08:22):
che I've got reverse osteoporosis. Not to brag, you goddamn face,
but my bones are getting better. Um I'm taller, but yeah,
I know I was. I was finite basketball sometimes and
up I was like post under the under the hoop
and get the ball to that guy. You're I was
all like people talk about growing pains. I didn't know
until recently that it wasn't a pretty metaphor for you know,

(08:45):
growing up or whatever, that it was a thing that
people who got tall all at once had No I've
been I was always the tallest one. Um. So I
recently picked up basketball again for the first time in
a long time, and I couldn't be more herman monster. Yeah,
it's funny because I used to play basketball and I

(09:06):
was okay, I believe it or not, and um, I
believe it. You're good. But then I like spent many
many years without playing at all. After playing just recreationally
for fun forever, and I was amazed at how you
lose it, Like I just I felt clumsy. It's not
like riding a bike. Yeah, but it came back though.

(09:28):
Well but not to brag, but I've been on a
bike here and there over the time and that sticks
with you. Yeah, that expressionist Dixie and that expression well,
I can't even go from there. Um. So do you
have siblings? Have one? Not again? My brother? Uhhuh? Are

(09:49):
you guys pals? All right? All right? But I mean
we're not Yeah, we're not. Um well, I mean I'm
not getting into family therapy. For Christ's sake, You're certain
not questions I'm trying to get of, like you're you're
growing up As it relates to movies, ben right, Okay,
so I had a brother. We did not watch a

(10:10):
lot of movies together. We were four years apart, so
our tastes were Um, but were you into it? Was
I into having a brother or movies? This is going
I love this. This is gonna be my favorite one,
I think because I'm like you, this is the one
where you don't have to like talk up to a guy.

(10:31):
You're like talking to a mirror. Um what, but we
are kind of like this weird h what do you
want to do? Like I'm like a smaller version um,
Like going to movies were like I wasn't just being
confrontational going to movie stuff was like was that a
big passion of yours early on? Yeah? It must have been,
Like I can tell you, oh, I feel like we

(10:53):
feel like there's a bonus round at the end with
quiz questions that I don't want to inadvertently answer in advance.
But I remember like early movies, going to like Ghostbusters
and and like the Ferrell's next to it, like the
experience of going like Ferrels to Yeah, yeah we had
a Ferrels. Yeah there's like one left in southern California. Yeah,
for those of you don't know, Ferrells was an ice

(11:14):
cream parlor with like the vests, like the traditional old school.
It might as well have been like a nineteenth century
ice cream parlor, right, but like but also like very
seventies ice cream parlor or like if you order the
matter horn or whatever, there's whistles and bells like literal
ones as they bring it out to your table, maybe sparklers,
Like I don't know what is my memory and what

(11:35):
is like uh p j O Putter to Ben still
show parody of that style of ice cream established. Yeah,
so you would go to matter Her and I think
it's Ben and Jerry's, was it. I don't know. Do
you go to movies and go to Ferrels? No, But
I like that the experience of going to this one
particular movie, Like I would occasionally go to Ferrell's, but

(11:57):
it was right next to the movie theater in Tyson's
corner of them all near my house where we'd go
see movies. So it was a mall theater, which were
the best. And then but then growing up in like
in high school, then we've got we got that theater
I think went away the mall renovated and there were
other movie theaters in the neighborhood or close enough that
we were like choosing about it. My friends and I were. Yeah,

(12:17):
we were the kind of people that would like spend
too long in tower records and video like choosing one
to rent because it was important, yeah, you know, and
like going to the movies when they came out and
that kind of thing. Man, I wonder how much time
we spent because that was the same way walking around
video stores reading boxes. Man, in college there was a

(12:38):
movie a rental place that was Chimneys. It was five movies,
five days, five bucks, and I had a pal with
two VCRs and it was like, let's have all the movies.
And I remember throwing away, like when DVDs became a
thing and Netflix especially became a thing, just throwing away,

(13:00):
like I think we probably did SLP, so like three
movies per tape, per videotape and just going never watched that,
never watched those goodbye videotapes. I can get any of
these on Netflix. Yeah, it was a good feeling not
having to like knowing the next time you move you
don't have these big cases of videotapes of movies you've

(13:22):
never That's kind of the big digitization is when we move.
That's really the only change as well. It's also in
your house you don't have clutter. Yeah, well now you
have other clutter, do you? Yeah? Sure, what do you
got where the video tapes used to be? What do
you have? That's a good question, Like I realized the

(13:42):
last move that I did. Books aren't trophies. You can
keep the books that you might reread or lend or
have of value to you, but if you haven't read
the thing and you've had it on your show. That's
not a brag. That's like if someone might read it,
give it to that person. You know, books is something
books or something that's still sort of hold on to. Yeah,

(14:03):
I do too, but not as many. Like I've got
my favorite book series you know that I you know,
I collected before they they re issued them and you
can get them all easily, you know. Um, but yeah,
the ones that are like, yeah, this would feel good
to have read this book, but it's it had a chance.

(14:26):
Do you do books? Yeah, now the books for comics.
I read comics still, and comics oology has obviated the
need to have a lung box. It's the it's a
kindle for comics. Um, you made the leap in full
and the resolution is better for the part. And like
they're easy to find once you have them, you can

(14:46):
find them and reread them or whatever. But they don't
take up space on your thing. You don't take up
space in your house, right, Yeah, I think you've sold me.
I'm gonna get burned on my books. Yeah, that's the No,
here's the thing, Like, I mean your thing was, Um,
a friend of mine, do you know Brian Whalen. I
know him through Paul. He's he was a comedian that
came up in Philadelphia with Paul and he works at St.

(15:09):
Vincent de Paul. And so when I would give away,
like when I would be put in boxes of books
like I don't need these, who'd be like, let me
take them because the homeless have literally very little to read. Uh?
And then another friend of mine sends his stuff to soldiers,
like comics, getting rid of boxes of comics, sending the
soldiers it's great, there's there's good places to put your

(15:32):
books that you're not using. What about those vhs? I
wonder if they will bust you for throwing Like I
got a replacement for my TiVo, my my DVR box.
That's the fast market. Um when how long ago, like
the thing was frizzing, So they sent me a replacement
and they were like, here put this, but you still
have no it's a DVR. But like you call everything

(15:54):
a tvo right, like it's it's the cleanex, it's the
cleenex of Uh. Really do you know? I called it
tibo in a long time, all right? Uh? Marini partner
calls everything a t bow like he calls his iPhone
a TBO, like, let's getting the TV and go to
the store. Um, but you're supposed to throw away one
of these things in a in a specific way. Yeah,

(16:16):
electronic recycling, right yeah? Uh? And is it the same
for video tapes or there's no actual chemistry circuitry in them.
Oh no, they won't bust you. I don't think you
just throw them in a regular ordinary trash. Can just
throw the river like everything else. Yeah, the river videotapes,
but so many that it's surging sea of videotapes of vhs.

(16:38):
Is it smells plastically in that way that takes you back.
It smells like cartridges. That's why people of the l
a river. Um. All right, So you are going to
movies with your pals, then it's not your brother because
you you hate each other. It's not that we hate
each other so that we hated each other and will again. Okay,
But you and your buddies you had, you had a

(16:59):
gang of dudes, not just dudes. There were some ladies
in the mix. I remember vividly seeing true romance with
with like I remember the people I was with that
when train Spotting was another one that like I remember
the the day of that, uh, seeing that in the
room and that kind of thing. Like but yeah, growing up, Yeah,
movies were were a thing. Um, I've got a true

(17:21):
romance saying that you might know so you can just go.
Of course I knew that, um later with the yeah
I know that. Do you know the movie theater where
they see them? Do you know where that is? That's
the Vista? That makes sense? It does. No, it's Detroit.

(17:42):
Oh no, that's what I'm saying, Like it totally like Detroit.
Did they know? That's what I'm saying. Like when I
lived in Los Felis and I saw the Vista and
then went to the Vista a lot because that's the best. Yeah,
it's the best theater because what they do is they
take out every other row so you leg room for days,
for days, and it's a it's a fancy theater too,

(18:04):
like it's an Egyptian. Yeah, scored the people. You can
see it in Trumans probably people can get up and
go pee and walk down the aisle and no one
has to move a muscle and say, oh excuse me,
can I get by? It's wonderful. But anyway, I was rewatched,
I was rewatching it, and it's the fucking Vista and
they put um, you know how they fool you is

(18:24):
they put a fog machine under a man hole cover
and steam rises out and they put coats on the
actors and then well that's Detroit. You know what I
watched it recently, was on TV and I watched it
from the scene after that, like getting pie after Well,
you might have seen it and go, oh man, this
is the Vista. I'm saying if I had seen, if

(18:45):
I had tuned in one scene earlier, I would have
been like, oh, the Vista, and I would have liked
your trivia would have been ho ass hum. Uh. That's
such a good movie, though, it's really I think it's
his best, Tarantino's best script, Tony Scott's best movie. You
look back at Tarantino's career, it's his best movie. I'm
not saying it's his best script whatever. I'm saying, this

(19:06):
is best movie. Yeah. Probably, Let's let's say this. It's
the one I like the best. No, no, no, I'm
with you there for sure. Um it's the one who
can revisit and you public got a little tired. But
I'm not against pulp fiction. But like, I don't know
if pulp fiction feels like an exercise in storytelling and

(19:27):
this is just a like this is a pulp fiction story,
like a story out of a pulp fiction true romances,
and like everyone's so good in it, everyone's so good,
and watching it again and I don't think we're talking
about it today, this isn't the movie we're focusing on
true but watching it again, it was like, man, that's

(19:48):
Christians Later, Like that's the same guy that was in
the West Wing and pump up the volume like that's
but like if you think of Christians Later in the
abstract true Romance, I don't think pops up. Like if
you were playing a movie trivia game with the films
of Christians Later and you said true Romance, I think
the audience would be like, oh yeah, even though he's
the star of the movie, right like And it was

(20:11):
like that with it, like, um, what is her name? Parquet?
That's that lady from a procedural right, but man's that's
Albama Worley. And to this day, you're so cool is
the best compliment anyone can give anyone, right, Like I
have said you're so cool and meant it and it's

(20:33):
been like I am in a moment where I where
I thought that about a person and said, like it's
like I love you as fine, like say that if
you mean it, but you're so cool. That's a rarefied
version of that, Like there's no way that somebody can
tell you that, And that just doesn't make you feel
like the best you've ever found. You're winning in a
drug deal you shouldn't be in like you're dominating. Yeah, man,

(21:00):
So like everybody every inch of like that casting and
then you even like like a Rapp report in this
when's the last time you've like, man, he's great, He's great.
Reggie huh forever and Gary Oldman just choose that scene
but not like he does in Fifth Element where you're
like I get it, You're you're doing something to this,

(21:23):
but like yeah, where it's and of course the hopper
walking scene. Yeah, but like Brad Pitt, Yeah, condescend me. Man.
I went and made a honey bear ball after I
saw that movie and I watched and when I watched
it recently, I mean, let's give that at a moment
because that's great. Um, but I watched that movie and
Gandolfini wasn't really condescending to him very hard, like it

(21:46):
wasn't God. Gandalfinia forget about that kind of send me
suggests that in the script and in Tarantino's head the
lines that Gendalfini was saying, we're much more oily and
manappeal to. But gandel Phenie plays it so like just
I'm looking for these guys. Do you know where they are?
And it makes the condescension of paranoia to do with

(22:07):
the drugs that Brad Pitt is on right, Like, I
don't know, it's not it's he's not kind of sending
you man, not at all, right, But I feel like
when I saw it as a teenager, I was like, yeah,
fucking grown up is kind of sending to that person.
That is the me equivalent of this movie. Not that

(22:29):
I was smoking pot in high school riting, but like,
the guy with the power is really, by dint of
the power structure set up in this movie, the standing
guy is really dominating the laying down guy. That's what
it comes down to. Oh man, that's great. It's all
power dynamics everything visually. Um, all right, well we should

(22:54):
get into millage crossing them because I've never seen it.
I the this is long been well. I love the
Cohens so much. It's hard to say my favorite, but
Miller's Crossing was always up there to me. Pre far ago.
I would say Miller's Crossing and Barton Fink were probably
my two favorites, but um they every I love everything,

(23:17):
so it's like picking your babies, you know. I came
late to Miller's Crossing, which is why I think I
love it so much. Interesting, like, it wasn't one that
I saw at the time. It was one that like
it was one of those alright, most crossing is one
by them, okay, uh like recently, like in my thirties,
probably is when you first saw it, and it knocked

(23:39):
me out right. And then the second time I saw it,
I didn't remember anything about it other than I really
liked it. Was the second time. Today this is probably
the fourth or fifth time. Okay. And recently I was
on a podcast talking about Barton Fink, which I rewatched,
and I loved Barton Fink and watching it, I really

(24:01):
like Barton finkerdld up as well. It didn't hold up
as well because I feel like I was it watched
over me the first time. The first bunch of times
I saw it and now I'm watching it to talk
about it specifically on a podcast, and this doesn't makes sense,
and maybe it does, and like, let me try an
interpretation of what this is about because of this and

(24:23):
that and visually this and the other thing, and like
that's interesting, but it's not the narrative that I thought
it was. And it's it's repetitive in a way. That's like,
but I don't like Barton Fink as a guy, Like
I sympathized with him the last time, and this time
I'm like, just let John Goodman finish, right, like, and

(24:43):
that's what it's about or whatever. But like I was
worried going into this viewing of Miller Miller's Crossing that
I did today that like maybe the spell would be broken,
and it wasn't. This movie is phenomenal. Uh So I
saw this. I saw this in the theater. Um do
you remember that experience? Yeah? I mean I was early

(25:05):
to the Cohens because I happened upon raising Arizona at
the Dollar Theater when I was in high school. Um,
because we would just go to the Dollar Theater after
church on Sunday nights a lot. Um, you just had
a look. No, I was just like I did never
I'm not a church person. Yeah, the idea of but
the idea of going to church and getting out at

(25:27):
nighttime as a guy who only knows about church from
like movies and and shows about it, I thought it
was a daytime thing or like a midnight mass thing. No.
No, no no, the idea that like, you go to church
and I'm like, the look that you saw was me
going Did church last all day? Or was there like
a late shift to church? There? There's there's two shows.

(25:48):
There's the matinee, which is the one that conventional wisdoms like,
if you don't know about church, that's the one you
just to think about. Okay, So there's a casual Friday
late shift. There's a casual Friday late show on Sunday evening. Um,
it's kind of funny to think back that after supper
church was twice a day on Sundays. Yeah, so weird.
Was it after dinner? Um? Cheez. That's a good question, dude.

(26:13):
I went to church on Sunday morning, Sunday night and
Wednesday night. So you did both shows? Yeah, and oh
you know what it was? I think Sunday night was
Sunday night was like youth group mainly it's it's hazy,
it's been a while, but it's so. It might have
been like, you're not going in for the full there's
not a sermon, there's not more. I know what it was,

(26:34):
all right, this is very important. I'm trying not to
hold your feet to the fire. Sunday morning was formal
church with the adult choir in their choir robes and
all that whole, the whole deal, adult choir, the sex
after a church, do you want to have adult sex?
And then the night church was casual night church. That

(27:00):
night churchy schedule and um we sang that the youth
choir sang, but we didn't wear robes. It was just
like T shirts and gean and um yeah. And then
there would be like the youth group would always go
out and do stuff afterwards. That was mainly church friends
would go. Not you and your family, Me and my
church friends would go to the dollar movie quite often

(27:20):
after night church. Would you like take a buck out
of the collection plate for your movie? No? I did
tell this other story that was the nine nineths, that movie,
and it was it was kind of adorable looking back,
as had they took it seriously. That a big stack
of pennies and when you bought the ticket, they would
slide a penny in your ticket across the thing, which
is kind of neat. And it was just like a
county fair ticket. It wasn't like here's the movie you're

(27:41):
seeing that just said you know, admit one. So anyway,
that's a long way of getting around to the fact
that I saw Raising Arizona by chance. I was We
just went and it blew me away and I had
never seen anything like it before and it was a
really kind of monumental. It was just kind of a
sea change movie for me as far as like, wow,

(28:04):
this is different than anything I've seen and this is
what movies can be from. I had that same experience.
But for Hudsucker Proxy, Okay, well that you're younger than me,
so that that makes sense, you know, like that's your
Raising Arizona. Yes, and it really is like Raising Arizona
doesn't do it for me. And I got into this

(28:25):
on the other podcast. But what what show is it? Uh?
It doesn't come out until January, right, it's a Craigslist
Oh and it hasn't even debuted yet. No, it comes
it's out. My episode doesn't come out in January. I
don't want to spoil that. They're going to do Barton
Fink with me and Gen Well, no, this will probably
be after that even Okay, great because I got a

(28:46):
big I got a big kiddy built up. That's because
you're a professional Craigslist Craig Kikowski um watches. He's the
kind of guy. He's an improviser and a thorough genius. Uh.
And like a thing in improv is like I know
everything about everything, and Craig like was already doing that,
so improv was a great home for him, and he

(29:08):
would make lists of his favorite everything. So he's going
through his top one hundred favorite movies in order and
subjecting his wife Carla to them. So, uh, they're watching
together and she they do not share a taste. So
it is fun at tension to like, will this podcast
to shore their marriage is the implicit question. And then
they have guests to talk about movies from and they're

(29:30):
both in there, yes, Craig and Carla and there with
a guest sometimes and sometimes just the two of them.
It's a great podcast that's really fun. Check that out
if you like movies or Craig or Carla. Well, I
don't know them, but yeah, but you will, oh man,
you'll get insight into them. Yeah that sounds like fun.
I know Emily would love to do a podcast with me,
and I'm like, no, we can't do that because you

(29:50):
have a marriage. That's right. Uh. So that was Hudsucker
Proxy was your raising Arizona. Absolutely. I walked out of
that theater into Circle, going, that's what they can do.
And like I was reading, I was reading up about
Cohen Brothers movies today because I have to prepare as
a guest. Uh. And the reviewer, this guy for The Atlantic,

(30:11):
did this for the anniversary of Blood Simple. Yeah, He's like,
here's all the Cohen Brothers movies in order, and like
what I think of them, and and stray notes in
that kind of thing. I got to check that and
he was like, Hudsucker Practice is the almost the worst one.
And I couldn't disagree more. It's great and but like
you can see in the stuff that I've done, it's influenced,

(30:33):
Like you can see you know, the old timing of
it um and the like. But but it's not about
the old time. It's about character. Like that's just a
sheen on it, and the characters get to be eloquent
or be hokey or be whatever they are, like you can.
There are a couple of things that like now that
I've done the show that I've done. I did a
show for a while called The Thrilling Adventure Hour, which

(30:55):
is a stageho in the style time radio. If you're
unfamiliar with me as a person, I don't know why
you're listening to this, but I did that thing, and
it's available on iTunes forever. But the I can see
now that I've stopped doing that show every month all
the time, and it's uh as a thing that I've done,
I can look at it and go, oh, the tick
was an influence. Oh um hudsucker proxy. Like the things

(31:15):
that I like that come back up to me at times,
I can go, oh that really I internalized that in
a way that I wasn't aware of that I was
doing that. Like comics that my my grandmother kept that
were my father and uncle's old comics. The looking at
culture as a as a way to look at history,
you know, like a different time and place. A culture

(31:36):
is a thing that, among other things that it did
transport you which is part of what I love about
Miller's Crossing, and doesn't resonate with me in Raising Arizona,
not because it doesn't take place in another time, but
for some reason, the um dialogue in it takes me
out of it. I don't know if it's the dialogue
or the delivery or what, but the the even more

(31:58):
ludicrous turns of phrase in Miller's Crossing make me want
to hug this movie, and and Raising Arizona, I'm like,
I see the seams of it. I don't know, maybe
the South is a the South of Arizona. Okay, Yeah,
that makes sense. That tracks, But like that kind of

(32:20):
like hay CD character right, like feels like a specific
choice that is like not playing to the top of
the intelligence of characters. Although I'm sure the Cohens don't
do that necessarily or they do it universally and so
it should be a complaint across the board, but generally
that that accent makes me suspect of the thing I'm
gonna watch. Is it going to be Um smoking the

(32:42):
Bandit time? No offense to you, I hear You're a
lovely Southern drawl, And all I want to do I
have a southern draw Yeah, a little bit, yeah, no, no, somewhat.
Come on, yeah, you do know that's an impression of me. Oh,
come on out, Oh, come on? How to how you

(33:05):
put two syllables in chuck every time you say it?
So Miller's crossing. Uh, we're having fun, audience. I hope
you're having fun, Chuck. I also hope you're having fun. Um.
That very first scene in the movie what struck me

(33:27):
and I've seen this movie a bunch of times, but
watch it again in the night. Took my notes and
I never really noticed just how quickly it's It picks
up a story already in progress. Basically. The thing about
this Yeah, one of the things I love about the
movie is how dense every line is. It's so there

(33:48):
are certain movies that make you like they they're not subtitled,
but they may as well be. For how the specific
kind of attention you have to pay to follow along
because it's there, it's in there, It's in the dialogue,
but it's not it's it's not simple, but it's not hidden.
You just have to be with it. Um, you can

(34:08):
really pay attention to this movie to get it by
Ran Johnson, Yeah, is one Um, that's that springs instantly
to mind. To have that same quality that this has,
where it's like there's stuff going on and you don't
have to scratch it, you just have to be with it. Um,
and this is yeah, this is that. This is It's
such an engaging movie because you have to engage with it. Yeah,
for sure, you can't casually watch Miller's Crossing and follow

(34:32):
all the characters and what's going on. But it's right there.
But if the second you pay attention, you don't have
to work hard. You don't have to excuse me, you
don't have to decipher. Yeah, it's not confusing. You just
have to pay attention, and the performances are right there
with it. Man. Yeah, yeah, I mean that Polido yet
away recently. Yeah, man, man, I mean he's a dude

(34:56):
that's in a bunch of Cohen Brothers movies. But this
Cormans so good, Like he's just I love a movie
where you know how everybody smells. You know, Godfather is
one of those, like a good and the Godfather is
the most I know how he smells. I know that
I know that guy, like he smells like my grandpa.

(35:20):
But with this liquor and this aftershave and that suit
right and an old cigar. But like this movie, man
Polito his this peptic shit so good. Oh yeah, when
he's just yeah yeah, I mean, I don't know, how
do you what do you think? What what you were

(35:41):
about to say? The opening of this movie well just
I mean the whole first scene. It picks up a
story already in progress. It's immediately establishes it is having
like just and I'll get to the criticism later about
some people think it's too scripty, but I think it's
just right on the money, and like so many classic lines,
just from the beginning with with Leo saying, you know,

(36:04):
you're as big as big as I let you get
and never any bigger and don't ever forget it. And
then uh, in that same scene when Tom has the
he owes all the money too to the guy I
can't think of the name right now, yeah, to the Russian,
and Leo offers to pay off his gambling debt, and
Tom says, I'll square it myself. That's why I got

(36:26):
invented cards. And it's just such good There were I
took note of. There were a few expressions that they
used in this movie that if you use them today
there they mean nothing. We said dangle earlier, which is great,
said but before I think we started the podcast. Yeah,
but but dangles great like dangles like the catchphrase you

(36:48):
get from this movie, and dangle for those of you
that haven't seen it, dangle means leave right, yeah, go
ahead and leave. But there were And the reason I
mentioned now is it started in this The end of
that scene is something I don't know exactly the line,
but it's something the effective use all a bunch of
fancy pants. Fancy pants, right, and fancy pants. That was

(37:11):
the first. That was what made me notice this throughout
the movie is stuff that you would say now and
people would be like, I don't even care, Like it's
it doesn't even make a dent, it's not a blip.
That was a big insult though. It was like, that's
the thing is they were a handful that we're just
giant burns in this movie. It's uh, like the hell
with You is like you know, you'd toss it off now,

(37:33):
but the hell with it was like a condemnation in
this movie, kiss off and nuts to you, like these
are these are moments in this movie like these are
big moments where some it's like nuts to you, It's
like it's the right, like yeah and uh, and no
one would say no one's saying or a twist, which

(37:54):
is something you don't even hear anymore, calling a woman
a twist, which a derogatory thing. Imagine. Oh sure, because
Taturo as this brother to Bernie Barnbaum, as a brother
to the great Marsha gay Harden even said she's a
sick twist because you know, she even tried to teach
me a thing or two. Yeah, and the yeah in

(38:15):
the sack what they're talking about, Um, we're gonna bounce
all around here. But I have to mention the score
by Carter Burwell, just one of the great great movie
scores of all variations on a traditional Irish song. Yeah, yeah,
for sure. It wasn't a specific song. Yeah, it was
in the reading that I did today. I couldn't tell
you the name of it, but I could tell you

(38:36):
that Gabriel Burne pitched it to the Colhen Brothers during
shooting and they listened to it their own. Yeah, Like
I bought the soundtrack on CD. Uh And I didn't
do that a lot when it was just purely score. Um,
but this was one I bet I would listen to this. Yeah.
In writing things so great? Um, and Gabriel Burne originally
supposed to be uh acclamated, Like, what's the word naturalized?

(39:00):
It's not the word when you when you have no
trace of the old accent, you've become like, oh uh yeah,
like me with my southern accent, like you with your
southern accent. Gabriel burn was like, let me keep my
original accent. Yeah. I mean, has he ever been better
than in this movie? Not according to the Internet that

(39:22):
I read today and not according to things I've seen
him in. I mean he was a good usual suspect. Yeah,
but he was great in this Yeah. Great. And like
like if Gabriel Burne, I don't know how he feels
about his career, but he did, he would be like
Tom Reagan and Miller's Crossing and like he can sleep
at night knowing that I was fucking Tom Reagan and

(39:45):
Miller's Crossing one of the great great parts of all time.
It's so good, it's so good. He's uh that's I
feel like I'm going to not offer insights so much.
It's just be like this part was so good. Well,
it was really good. I liked it. I like watching
it and listening to it. Um, here's something I don't
know if you try, I just don't know. Well, first
of all, he gets his ass kicked through the entire movie.

(40:07):
I lost everybody that they don't break any bones. Yeah, yeah,
but every like I lost count how many people punch
him in the face. Uh. And then I noticed, and
I've seen this movie so many times, I've never noticed this.
He doesn't hit anyone in the entire movie all he
he just accepts the beating from whoever is giving it

(40:28):
to him, whether it's Marsha gay Harden or or the uh,
the the toughts that come to you know, the Loan
Shark guys. Like everyone in the movie kicks his ass.
To the entire movie, Leo kicks his ass. And that
great scene all the way down the hall and down
the stairs, that woman that he falls into, she kicks
his ass. Him walking out the door, and the Loan
Sharks like hitting him like out of nowhere. It's so good,

(40:51):
like my insight, it's so good. No, I mean, but
that's what this movie is like, is totally geeking out
of this uh. And lines like, Uh, if I hadn't
known we were going to be cast in our feelings
into words, I would have memorized the song of Solomon
so great, Like how do you write a line like that?

(41:11):
You gotta be the going brothers or nothing more foolish
than a man chase in his hat, Like I should
say that, apparently this movie is that, Like this movie
is about a hat about a hat. Yeah, I mean
it's definitely just track. You just track his hat and
he's not if he's not wearing it, you're not sure.
But he is, uh control the whole time, Like I

(41:33):
don't know, it's great because it's they don't really A
case can be made that this is a movie about
a guy who loves a girl, right, Yeah, the very
last thing I have on my notes is when it
boils down to it, it's a it's a movie about
Verna and Tom, but it might not. A case could
also be made that it's not that at all, that

(41:54):
it's about him and Albert the character. Yeah, it's a
love story, love story between those two guys. Like he
sees he sees Leo making a mistake, and he does
his best to unmake that mistake for Leo and show
him to the point that he throws himself on the bomb,

(42:15):
like tells him the thing. And in the end when
Leo wants him back, he's ruined. He's ruined the perfection
of their relationship and like and if that's what the
movie is about, to you, hey, that's a valid read
him be What a sad thing that we never got
to see the relationship because the opening scene is is

(42:36):
poleto pleading for burn bombs, Burnie boom burn bomb's head. Like,
everything is so personally motivated in this movie that I mean,
that's one of the reasons that I love it. I
a thing that I respond to and try and do
in my own work. Is as much a genre as
you put on it, It's not going to be as

(42:57):
compelling a story if there's not a personal human reason
to it. And everything in this thing is motivated by
love or affection or desire or I had the best
teacher I ever had high school English. Dave Shared is
his name, and he taught Macbeth line by line to
a full class of students and everybody got everything. You know.

(43:19):
He we had to write a paper correlating Michael Corleone
with Macbeth. You know and the way into that paper
is was his thesis for the class. And I was
watching this movie and it it echoed in my head.
I was like, Oh, this is Dave Shared's thesis at large.
When your reason is overcome by your desire, there's trouble.
When your reason is overcome by your desire, there's trouble, right,

(43:42):
And that's every character in this movie is defying what
they know to be the right course of action because
they because of their desire. Like if if Tom didn't
love the woman or love Albert Finney, he could, he
could let he could figure it out, like he wouldn't
get behind the Every character was like, Nope, I want

(44:03):
more power than I been given. Nope, I want to
help out this girl's brother because she's nice to me.
Like every character, every character's doomed because of this thing. Yeah,
because Tom, um, you you kind of get the sense
early on, even though the character of Tom would never
show it, and he never does show it that of
course he loves right because believe him. Yeah, Like well

(44:30):
yeah exactly, And just like you said, with a with
overcoming desire, like if that wasn't there, then it would
just be an easy solve, right, there would be no
movie he could. She would just be a twist that
he had a fling with and he could tell her
to dangle. But she had his hat started. Yeah, that's
when he started here, because as far as we know,
that might have started before that. Oh, I think I

(44:52):
got the always had the impression that they had already
had a thing going. Did you think that that was
her first thing? I thought that I had that impression
that they had a thing going, as you did. But
then the internet that the article that I read interesting
thought about this was this was how she had him?
Was she had his hat? It's all about hats. Well,
it is all about hats, but I never considered that

(45:13):
that's an interesting take. Um well, we got to talk
about the Danny Boy scene because it's one of the
best scenes ever. And I saw a bit of trivia
today that apparently the Commins had that song um custom recorded, Yes,
so it would time out. I didn't know that. That's
so great, It's really great. That's what I was watching

(45:35):
it today. What struck me about that scene was the
sound mix was the idea that he put on this record.
So it's what is it esogetic or diagetic? Yeah, I
don't know, it's motivated within the movie, right, but it's
louder than the guns. So at a certain point it's soundtrack.

(45:56):
It's not. Uh, it's not a sourced within the movie anymore.
Like he's outside the house. You wouldn't hear it from
the phonograph that he put on. It's the movie trick,
and probably that's the thing in movies all the time.
But because this scene is unique, it felt like a

(46:17):
real specific choice to make, as opposed to like, we'll
do the movie thing of like then it's overwhelming, it
becomes the soundtrack Like this didn't feel like. This felt
like there's a reason why the Coen Brothers we saw
the needle drop, you know, and then it it overwhelms
the it's not it's no longer motivated by that. Um,

(46:39):
it's a choice more than a movie that just does
that too, because that's how you do it. I don't know, uh,
And maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm reading into it. That's
just that's how movies work. But it felt like an
interesting thing of like, so what does that say about
this character who's unkillable because he's so badass and tough
and like sees things like it's the godlike quality of

(47:02):
this character, the reason that he is where he is,
that he sees stuff coming and that he's so he's
so strong that it works as a metaphor for this
guy who like, yeah, I'm gonna put this on and
it's not just gonna come from It's gonna come from everywhere.
It's going to come from above because because I, as
a character, am am God here. Yeah, yeah, you can
burn down my house, but I'm gonna burn down your
car with you in it. Well, a few things about

(47:25):
that scene that get me every time, or um, just
the how he how he notices with the smoke coming
up to the cracks in the floor, and just the
time he takes. Isn't that this movie, Like, isn't that
what's great about the Cohn Brothers is the cracks on
the floor, the smoke comes through that a character notices,
like it's so intricate, it's it's so it's so intricate,

(47:48):
Like it's so it's wonderful that they like like he
would think of I would never think of that in
a million years, that that would be be a not
a plot point, but whatever, a device to to move.
How's he gonna know, well, he's smart enough to see
the thing. Well, anyone else would say like, oh, here's
the gun shot you know, sure, I guess, but Danny

(48:11):
Boy's too loud. It's coming from on high. Well, but
that's the whole point though, It's like, it's so much
more riches with the fact that he sees the smoke
coming there was, I mean not to you're talking about
this scene and we'll get back to the scene the
where we find out that Rug is dead. Yeah, Rugg
Daniel is that his name. I don't remember the last name,
which is why I just said rugged. But the private
detective that was sent to higher sent to follow verna

(48:34):
that might have incriminating uh detail, is dead. And the
way that we see he's dead, we know his name
is Rugg. And there's just it's it's a shot of
a dog than a child, a dead fat man in
an alley, and then the kid leans forward, and then
it's a three shot of them and the dog has
that inquisitive look on his face, and the kid reaches

(48:56):
forward and takes the to pay off and it's like,
oh that's rugged. Yeah, But and then and then as
a kid would do, like runs down the alley like
I've just done something with it. Yeah, but the way
that that just the way that they parcel out that
scene visually, like here's a dog. What like it's a
BuzzFeed article. I'm gonna show you a shot of a
dog a kid in the dude, what happens next may

(49:18):
surprise you how relevant this scene is to the whole
movie that you're watching. Man, that's such a great scene. Um,
but back to the Oh yeah, but Danny boy, just
the the I mean, I know it's obvious that he
would not rush around, but just the time he takes
and putting out that cigar, he puts on his slippers

(49:39):
and like he knows, he knows how much time he has,
even though he doesn't know. There is to two of
the wonderful things in this scene. In the sequence, uh,
he goes under the bed. These two guys with Tommy
guns bust in the room, and he's got like a
revolver and he goes under the bed and these guys
methodically shoot like straightforward and they're they're basically strafing the

(50:02):
bed in like straight line on either side, but like
they'll hit him. Their plan is like we just keep going.
So if he scatters out like we're gonna hit him
on the way sometimes we're gonna hit him. And he
just shoots one in the leg in the foot right
because that's the level that he's not like, and that
drops him and you think, like, okay, so onto the
next guy. No, he puts a bullet in the brain
of that guy whose head is facing him, Like it's

(50:24):
just such a such a wonderful detail. And then the
other thing that I love is his stunt man. He
this down sixty years old, seventy years old, and he
exits out the window and then just like it's like
a rightly gymnast makes his way from the top floor
of the bottom floor, and it is like it's at once,

(50:47):
uh like the stuntman who's dressed the same like that,
it's not if you live in Hollywood, right you get
to know somebody. And then you watch the Buffy episode
that they were on, and you see that the stunt
man looks nothing like the first him. Right this at once,
this stuntman was like fine and totally proportioned well and
dressed the same, like they spared no expense on an

(51:08):
Albert Finney double of a stuntman. And on the other
just the fact that he's doing stunts is the joke right,
like for sure, but it doesn't take you out of
the movie. But it kind of does, but it doesn't,
and it's great. Yeah, I kind of I buy it
every time. And then of course how he ends it.
He gets the tommy gun from the guy he just

(51:29):
brained um very calmly through the whole thing, walks out
in the street the car is going away, shoots up
the car. But first he does, yeah, it's the guy
shoots the guy in the house and shoots and shoots
and shoots and shoots and bullets in him. And he's shooting,
and he's shooting the guy who's being shot is his

(51:51):
finger goes tight on the trigger and he shoots up
the house his feet. He just shoots a ram and
a ram and around and then uh, and he goes
out to the middle of the street. Leo goes out
in the middle of the street, shoots the car till
it's dead and explodes in a ball of flame. And
then in history, what does he do. He takes the
cigar out of the past that he does finishes with

(52:13):
that Tommy guns still smoking, and Danny Boy fades out
it's just it's a gift, a little like chicken skin
right now, so great after the movies chicken skins. All right,
So Tom Reagan commits one act of violence in the
movie that I can that I tracked, and it was
in the last ten minutes. Um again, he just gets

(52:33):
his ass kicked through the whole thing. And I can
fleet this movie with sometimes do you ever see My
Blue Heaven? Yeah? Have you seen it lately? Now? I
thought lately. And it's really weird. It's from a weird
time in movies where like, yeah, I don't know that
eighties thing of what a woman is is just a
little like yeah, and Rick moranis is a hero type, right,

(52:57):
like when he kicks the ex husband out because she
can't do it, like like, don't do that in your movie.
Don't don't make her swoon over that thing. But in
the end there's such a great turn. Steve Martin plays
this mob guy who's relocated into um the suburbs, the suburbs,
and and it's really just an excuse to trot out

(53:19):
like this weird Italian character that he's doing, who like
really misses actual Italian food in the suburbs and the
whole time, like there's all this the threat of violence,
he's he's a rat, He's gonna get whacked and all
this stuff, and his thing is he doesn't believe in guns.
And at the end he's making some point that he
wants to make that he's turned stuff around and is

(53:39):
the hero now and cares about community and country and
and people in his life or whatever. And a mobster
that we thought was done for pops back up. He
shoots him. Well, like he he has a gun. He
takes a gun and shoots the guy and then throws
the gun away to keep making his point. And Marana says, uh,

(54:00):
I thought you uh didn't You've never fired a gun,
And he just goes I allied and keeps talking. And
for some reason I put that on Tom in this movie,
was like because a big such a big deal of
him not not being a guy who shoots people. He
uses his mind. Uh that in the end, I just
put a little bit of my Blue Heaven right in

(54:21):
my memory on it, which is disrespectful to the Miller's Crossing.
And I'm sorry, it's just movie. I apologize to the
movie Miller's Crossing. Well, I mean, of course that first
act of violence he commits is the great scene where
Bernie finally gets whacked Bernie who holds him a chance?
You know, the whole movie is about Bernie burn Bumball

(54:41):
than Bernie Burnbaum, Like he says everything Bernie Burnbaum didn't
spoil the odds that gamblers have, then none of it
would have happened. Yeah, that's true. He was the original one, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The the opening scene with Polito is is not begging
is as a courtesy? Yeah, I want to whack Bernie
Bernie Burnbaum, And no, I can't extend you that courtesy

(55:03):
because I'm sleeping with his sister. Yeah. Uh. And and
he's just such a scumbag when he shows up and says,
you know, I thought, you know, you let me go,
but if it might not be very good for you,
and then he says basically what he wants or or
I started eating in restaurants. I started eating in restaurants.
It's such a great threat is Oh man, there's so

(55:24):
many good scenes to like. Um, that's the thing is,
as the movie lays out, you're like this that like,
it's great scenes, it's great lines and scenes. Everything is
it all weaves together so perfectly together. I love Mike Starr,
who is that that's his name. I think he's the
heavy that is left to beat Gabriel Burne. And Gabriel
Burns gives him a second and puts his coat on

(55:48):
the chair, and then it's the dude. It's this dude
that's just one and a half size bigger, like he's
half again as big as as Gabriel burn and so
burn hits him with the chair and there's just this
moment because cheez Tom. Yeah, it's like he's he's his manners.
It's a it's a manners thing, like you don't do
that to the guy that's supposed to be Yeah, he

(56:08):
got his feelings hurt. So he walks out and comes
back with some more guys. Well yeah, but he comes back.
The funny thing is he comes back with that little
old guy who he's just like, you know, he fucking
means business and he kicks his ask. Yeah, he grabs
the chair. That's actually I have under the the trivia
here the line Jesus Tom has said eight times in

(56:28):
the movie. Yes, three times by Leo, one each by
Frankie Mink, Bernie chief o'douel. Oh my god, and Mayor Levender.
Can we talk about how great Mink is. Yeah, like
Steve Shimmy has one scene right, one scene, Yeah, the
fast talking. I think that was the first maybe the
first time I saw Steve shim No. But Barton Fink,

(56:51):
Oh yeah, I did come out before this, because they
famously got writer's block on Miller's Crossing and wrote in
like three weeks. They go, oh, yeah, that's right, that right. Yeah, yeah,
maybe this did come out before. No, I think that's
what happened. And I think because I don't want to
look it up because they were right, because I did
look it up for the last podcast. Yeah, they wrote
they wrote Barton Fink while they had writer's block for

(57:12):
Millage Crossing. But they would have shot Millers Crossing before
Barton Fink. Okay, is that how it came up? Yeah?
I think that's right. Right anyway, Colleen if you disagree. Um,
but yeah, is so good, Like he's a mile a
minute talking in twitchy and like nervous. He's doing he's

(57:32):
doing a lot of good acting. Yeah he is. Um
but yeah, the speed at which Jesus Tom and this
is like it gets like the the amount of information
they get out gets less as as the movie goes on. Um,
but there's still like here's ten things you gotta know
and thirty seconds to know it and all the stylized

(57:53):
dialogue with curly cues and corners going around beautiful. So
Bernie finally gets in the end, like there's never been
in a movie character that deserves to die more than
Bernie Burnebon, Like he had all the opportunities to do
it right, and just that great uh last when he
finally gets it, when you know, yeah, he tries that
same stick again that worked the first time. We already

(58:15):
made fun of it. To him, all I gotta do
is turn on the waterworks. Yeah, exactly good. And then
what's the line what heart? Yeah? Yeah, then you get
the bullet uh? And then you know that last, that
last final scene where they bury him out it I
guess at Miller's crossing him. It's in the same woods,

(58:35):
and that's when Verna leaves and and uh and uh,
Leo has a great line, well, I guess we're walking
out in the middle of nowhere and they just start
to sort of walking through the woods and you get
the sense that like these these are two old friends
again kind of Yeah, everything is because they're getting married.
Because he's marrying Verna. That's right, she asked him. Yeah,

(58:58):
and it's like the death of their that like, here's
my question, if that if he wasn't, if Leo wasn't
marrying Verna, and then he asked Tom to come back
to work for him. Do you think Tom would come
back to work for him. Do you think it's spoiled
from the events of the movie that he's never gonna
work for him again, or do you think that it's
because he's marrying the woman that Tom loves he can't

(59:18):
be around it. I feel like something changed in Tom.
That's what I think. What was it? Um? I almost
get the feeling that Tom is angry at himself for
in love one of them or both of them, or

(59:39):
for letting his feelings like get in the way of
business and his career. Think he's punishing himself not coming
back to work. Yeah, it's almost like I get the
feeling that after this movie ended, Tom was like, well,
I gotta where does this take place. Where's Miller's crossing?
What city is this? Like, let's say it's it's Illinois

(01:00:00):
or something, right, I think it's New Orleans. They shot
at New Orleans. Let's say Chicago. Let's say Chicago. Um,
I'm just you know, I'm not saying in Chicago, but
let's say it Chicago. I get the feeling that after
this movie ends, he walks back into town, gets his hat,
backs a small suitcase, and moves to New York. He
just like gets he leaves. I would watch that, Yeah,

(01:00:22):
Like I was watching this going as much as I
love the TV show Fargo, Yeah, and as much as
the second season Fargo was a lot to this movie.
There's so much to do, like Millage Crossing being a
place that they take people to go and put a
bullet in them, Like, I will watch the hell out

(01:00:42):
of a Millage Crossing TV show by the people who
brought you Fargo to man, like you can make that happen. Yeah,
two phone calls. What did you think about Tom at
the end? I thought it was that it was interesting
that it's that that is this a movie about Tom's

(01:01:05):
relationship with Verna or Tom's relationship with Leo? And I
think it is. I thought it was that Leo ruined
it by not trusting Tom when Tom said, I never
asked you to do this. You just have to trust
me and he didn't. I think that was that was
Tom going, I'm gonna do right by my friend. But

(01:01:25):
that's it. Then I'm out, like you gotta give me
this one. No like him going, I'm not going to
like that guy's my friend and I owe him everything.
So I'm going to fix the problem that he has
right now. But after that, I'm done with him because
he didn't trust me. He trusted this woman that's playing him.
But but also the principle of yes, I love yes,

(01:01:49):
and so that's gonna be a hard thing to reconcile.
But that's not the important thing. That this guy who's
trusted me said that he trusts this woman as the
only one that he trusts as much as me is
her and her as me, And that's the moment where
he knows that she's playing him, that we can't will
never have this bond because you just told me that

(01:02:10):
the person you trust, the person lying to you as
much as you trust me, who's only after us what
we had. So that's what it is to me, is
like that that moment is the death of that possible
friendship forever. So great, alright, but I love that I
could be totally wrong. Well, no, I mean this is uh,

(01:02:32):
but they very much leave it up to the audience,
you know. And and but they spell everything out in
just what the movie, like the the stuff of the plot,
the story, Um, so well and so like that's the
dazzling thing is like how the how much information you're
getting about the world in every line in the first
two thirds two thirds of this movie. Um, but yeah,

(01:02:56):
it's why is maybe unknown to the Karens, but it
feels totally known to the Cohen brothers. You know. It's
an interesting thing as Um, I'm working on a thing.
I'm writing a thing with some people, and like we're
figuring out pilot stuff, you know, and the instinct once

(01:03:19):
you figure it out, once you figure out like why
a character or what a character or who a character
or a thing about a character, the instinct is so
we need to establish that and and the strength of going, well,
we can save that for a revelation somewhere down the line.
It doesn't matter why. We don't need to shoehorn that
in if it comes out, because it needs to come out,
that's one thing. But holding it back and knowing the

(01:03:43):
answer is gonna give you such a richer it's going
to engage the audience too, speculate on their own and go, Okay,
that's a specific behavior. It's motivated, motivated by something, and
won't that be compelling to know why? You know, there's
mystery to a character. Yeah, but you know, and so like,

(01:04:05):
it's not whatever, we'll figure it out. It's no, there's
a reason, and we'll get to that is interesting because
that's this whole thing, all right. We finished up with
two segments, the segment and you segmenting the ground. The
favorite joke structure well documented, my favorite joke structure. Um,

(01:04:27):
what Ebert said, this movie is a complete disappointment. This
was a little disappointing. Ebert gave this three stars. I
read about that he thought it looked like a commercial
for the kind of movie that it was. Yeah, so
I'll read the poll quote here. Miller's Crossing seems like
a movie that is constantly aware of itself instead of
a movie that gets on with the business. I'm also

(01:04:48):
not sure that the other characters in the movie would
inhabit quite the same clothing, accents, haircuts, and dwellings we
see them in Because he's talking in the review about
the Albert Finne Leo's office and how he would never
in an office like that, which Subert like, what you
gotta get yourself an office that you like, you can
stop being mad at will pretend characters, pretend office. He

(01:05:10):
would never in fans that I Ebert wrote about Leo,
this doesn't look like a gangster movie. Looks like a
commercial intended to look like a gangster movie. Everything is
too designed. That goes for the plot and dialogue to
the dialogue is well written, but it is indeed written.
Don't get me wrong. There's a lot here to admire.
Albert Finney is especially good as Leo the crime boss,
and John Polido is wonderful as Johnny Casper, his rival.

(01:05:34):
But the pleasures of this film are largely technical. Disagree,
which is weird, Like I don't know all that's movies,
Like the artifice he's describing is movies and decide whether
And it's the problem that I had with Raising Zone
is that they don't have with this And I don't
know why one makes engages me on the other doesn't.

(01:05:57):
But like one was about Haysey Hicks and this was right,
but like the like the dialogue is just as written.
You know, it's just as removed from that's what's so
great about the Cohen Brothers. No one talks like that
in real life, right, but also all movies, right or whatever? Arguably, Um,
I don't know, but like so Eberts saying like, I

(01:06:19):
just didn't. It just didn't, which is hard for a
guy whose job is to be objective and go this
and then this and also subjective and go, I felt this,
and I felt that to go it felt like this
doesn't feel phonier than The Godfather, certainly, right, but the
Godfather was probably more naturalistic at the time. Uh, and
probably not in conversation about this movie, like it wasn't

(01:06:41):
compared to although I did read a thing that Tom
Hagan is one letter away from Tom Reagan. Reagan interesting,
you know, there's there's echoes in Apparently there was a
lot of the Third Man in this movie. But I've
never seen the Third Man. But it ends at a
funeral in the woods and somebody taking a car. I
don't know. It's Hodgman's favorite movie. Supposedly he went with Avengers,

(01:07:02):
but went with Avengers to watch The Third Man together. Yeah,
and tell Hodgment about it. Uh. In five Questions, Ben.
First movie you remember seeing in the theater? Did Ghostbusters
come out before ET? No? ET was earlier, you know what? Vaguely?
I don't know. I remember Ghostbusters more. But the thing is,

(01:07:24):
I remember seeing a preview for Ghostbusters. So there was
a movie that I saw before Ghostbusters where I saw
the preview for Ghostbusters and like that preview owned me.
It was like spooky card catalog coming out and like
it was building a case for like ghosts scariest ship
in the world. And I was in it. I was
seven or eight, going, yeah, no, I agree, scared like

(01:07:45):
I have had namares. I know what that is, Like,
I know that ghost thing and I am not interested
in this movie. And then the turn of who you're
gonna call bump Bump, Yeah, like those guys, I am
seeing this movie. Um. So whatever the movie was that
had the trailer for Ghostbusters is kind of the first.
But I don't remember what that movie was, So Ghostbuster okay,
first R raded movie. Oh, the first R rated movie

(01:08:07):
I saw was a movie called Police Academy and I
was nine years old and I saw it at Brian
Rothstein's birthday and he was turning ten. Uh, and my
parents were livid. A nine year old saw Booms movie
and so early in my living in Hollywood, I happened
to meet uh David Graff, who played Tackleberry in The

(01:08:30):
Police Academy, and I told him. We had a small
conversation about a local taco restaurant, Henry's Tacos in the Valley,
and then I was like, look, I gotta tell you
because I was young, and that's when you have to
tell somebody something about that they're not a part of
the story. I told him, like Bran Rosty's birthday, I
got a lot of trouble. And David Graff, a very

(01:08:52):
nice man, said to me at one so he said,
there's a certain part of you, like act in the
in the in the backmost section of your brain that
correlates me with your burgeoning sexuality. And I said, yeah,
I guess, and he's like, that's great, that's nice to me.

(01:09:13):
Like it was just a weird like let me, let
me be, let me make myself a part of this
story that we're in, and let me be genteel about it,
and and funny, it was such a warm dumb like, hey,
we're strangers, but let's do a bit together. You know,
it was the bonding of a bit between strangers, and
I remember him while he died in the in the
early aunts, I think, but remembered by me as a

(01:09:35):
nice guy and not as a like part of my
burgeoning sexuality as much as like my burgeoning Hollywood celebrity. Uh,
it's just people and that's a nice guy. That's awesome. Yeah. Uh.
Will you walk out of a bad movie? Yes? I
love it. That reclaimed time is magic. Paul tom Can
talked about how empowering that is. He and I have

(01:09:56):
walked out of movies together. Yes, which one? We two?
We walked out of Intolerable Cruelty by the Cohen Brothers.
You mentioned that, but he didn't say anything about. You know,
when I tell a story and Paul's there, I will
mention Paul it's not necessarily always reciprocated. Um, and I
don't begrudging. Man, If you're listening, Paul, cut this out. Um, Yeah,
we walked out the the I don't know if he said,

(01:10:18):
but when uh, an argument between two lawyers goes poorly
for George Clooney and then Catherine data Jones walks out
with our client and George Clooney turns to his client
and said that went well. Paul and I looked at
each other and went, shall we And we walked the
hell out of that movie. Well that's fine for you. Um,
the it probably turned around after that that dumb scene.

(01:10:40):
But that's one of the Brian Grazer Cohen Brothers movies,
so lesser cohins. But the other movie that we walked
out of was Kung Fu Hustle. He did not mention that. Well,
then you've got an exclusive on your heads. Okay, we
walked out of Kung Fu Hustle after so long in

(01:11:00):
it that neither of us had a sense of whether
that movie had an hour to go or thirty seconds
to go. We were just done. We were just exhausted
by it. Like the stuff of it, the fun of
like exaggerated stuff because it's a kung fu movie. Never

(01:11:21):
took off like it should have been clips that you
send around on YouTube, like isn't that funny? Not a movie.
But we walked out of there, and it was that
thing when you walk out of a bad movie reclaiming
your time, like this is time that you have given over.
You have already seated this time to the movie, so

(01:11:42):
you get it back. Everything you do in that is
special and glorious, like I advocate for it, for it.
Number four, do you do you have a guilty pleasure movie?
Um into reclaiming your time? I'm not, Like, here's the
closest I get to that. One time I was really

(01:12:03):
like food poisoning or viral episode or something like really
really sick and turned on the modern remake of the
movie Hairspray, and in my delirium, I was like, this
is the best movie of all And I still have
like a soft spot for this movie. I think that

(01:12:24):
some of the songs are catchy, Like I would never
sit and watch the whole thing like what I've watched,
I'm like, Okay, some of it is all right and
some of it is not. Um, but like I thank
that movie for getting me through like the fever, the
peak fever moment of like everything's I'm gonna die here
but no no if and the turn Blatt does dances

(01:12:47):
the dance or whatever, and and also like that there's
a big final number in that movie that may as
well be Ferrell sung Happy like they are in my
mind identical songs and maybe it's again the fever Sick
as close as I get to like a guilty pleasure
is like there's some good songs in hair Spray. Yeah. Uh.

(01:13:09):
And then finally movie going one oh one with Ben?
What's your ritual at the movie theater? Uh? It depends
on um, the movie and the company. Like I tend
to be a good um uh what do you feel like?
I'm fine with that? But if i'm yeah, And it
depends on you know, am I having dinner after? Have
I had? Is this my dinner? But like I know,

(01:13:32):
like one friend of mine is like I gotta get
popcorn and put milk duds in it and that like
that kind of ritual thing. Uh. I like to go
to a theater with a sign seating. I like to
sit two thirds of the the way back in the middle.
I like to I like a popcorn. I like a
Barx root beer because it has caffeine in it. Um
d yeah I heard that on the take. Episode was

(01:13:53):
like yeah, good one, smart smart tig Um. We have
something in common. If we ever go see a movie,
we're both gonna have the barks, right. Um. I don't.
I don't like I'm I'm averse to sitting in like
on the sides of the thing like the Way Way,
having an immersive experience if you're gonna be aware of

(01:14:13):
the fact that you're getting an angle on the screen. Um,
I'm with you there, Uh if I'm if I'm candy,
which I tend not to be. I think in the
modern iteration, I want peanut m and M's gentleman. But
as a kid, it was junior mints, all the junior
men raising its ten percent of the time. Like my
brother was a snow Cavs guy, which is like, that's
why we're not close. All right, thanks buddy, there's a

(01:14:37):
lot of fun. Thank you. This was a lot of fun.
How how can we zoom out and our glass this thing?
And like what have we learned? Alright? Alright? It ended

(01:14:58):
all right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed that one. If
you are a Cohen Brothers fan and a Miller's Crossing fan,
I can't imagine that you wanted any more on that movie,
because we really got into it, and the discussion continued
after we left. We went and had some great Chinese
food in Eagle Rock and kept talking about Miller's Crossing
kind of for the rest of the night, because that's

(01:15:18):
what Ben and I do we uh. We we get
into some great conversations together and he's uh, he's one
of my best industry pals. Can't wait to see him again.
I hope you guys enjoyed it. Follow him on Twitter
at b in acker a c k e er uh.
He's always doling out the funnies there. And go check
out Thrilling Adventure Hour if you haven't listened to that yet.

(01:15:39):
It's really great and features to some of the best
coolest actors and comedians and in Los Angeles. So that
is it for this week. Look forward to many Crush
coming up on Monday, and until next time, why don't
you check out a foreign film for a change, because
reading is fundamental. Movie Crush is produced, edited, engineered, and

(01:16:10):
scored by Noel Brown from our podcast studio at Pond
City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.