Dax Shepard on Raising Arizona

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to Movie Crush. Charles W. Chuck Bryant
here once again one of our l A shows out
here in the l A Studio guest producer Doug and
uh I had Deak Sheppard in, which was a real
treat because Dax and his lovely wife Kristen Bell have
been kind enough to tweet about stuff you should know

(00:45):
over the years, and I know we mentioned on stuff
you should know, but they're they're fans of the show
and they've been listening for a long time and have
sent out random little tweets here and there about listening
to stuff you should know, which we always appreciated. And
uh as they were sort of the biggest and still
probably our biggest legit movie stars to kind of voice
their support for the show, and it always meant a

(01:07):
lot to us. And so I reached out to his
people and uh he I think he may have even
rearranged a thing or two to come into our l
A studio and uh and sit down with me to
talk about raising Arizona. So we ended up having a
very good talk about movies and about his life and cars.

(01:30):
Of course, he's a he's a car guy. He's a
gear Head and um a really good conversation. It was
cool to talk to a guy who was an actor
and a writer and a director, and he's spent in
so many good movies over the years, and obviously Parenthood,
the great TV show um Idiocracy is one of the
all time faves UH for for me and a lot

(01:50):
of people. And it was cool to get his perspective
as a as an actor and a director and as
a writer on stuff. And we had a good time
talking about raising Arizona and Smoking the Bandit and Burt Reynolds.
He has some good insider stories about Bert because he
worked with him, and it was just a real treat,
So big thanks to Dax for coming in. And we
also got to talk about podcasting because he has dipped

(02:11):
his toe in the pond in a big way with
his h newish show Armchair Expert, which he launched to
great success kind of recently, whereas he's these great deep
dive conversations with people about the difficulties of being a
human in the world. It's a really good show and

(02:32):
it's very substantive and I think does a lot of
good good for people out there to show the warts
and all of of the difficulties of just kind of
knocking around in day to day life as a person.
So um, checkout Armchair Expert for sure. But here we
go with Dak Shepherd and raising Arizona. Now you're your

(02:55):
own enterprise though, right? Are you with the network or
our own thing? And you launched? I mean that was
super impressive, man, congratulation. Had zero success in my life.
I mean I've had obviously it's a ton of success
in that we're talking, yes, but I have most often
put a ton of labor into things and they underperform.
Let's just say that I've never been I've never been
in Frozen. You know what I'm saying. Like my wife is,

(03:17):
she's come in first place many times between you know,
uh Bad Moms and Frozen. Uh So I'm used to
like work two years on, a movie comes out super disappointing,
depression for eight months, and then keep moving. And this
thing launched like Gangbusters. Yeah yeah, like the fucking Apollo thirteam.

(03:40):
That one blow up, one blew up. You shouldn't know this, actually,
I'm sure you've done an episode on and you've forgotten.
But at any rate, yes, I was quite shocked that
it it um, yeah, way to go, man. Yeah, it's
a really good show. Oh, thank you. I've listened to
about half of them so far. Oh you have. Well,
first off, how do you find time to listen to
podcasts when you're so busy producing them? Well, I'm also

(04:01):
ahead of content for our network, so that's kind of
part of the job, is just like out there and
try and try and get people over with this if
we can. And yeah, well I had I had wanted
to do one for a long time because I've been
guests on many of them, and you know, part of
me was the self loathing part of me was like,
oh jeez, you're so late to the party. Everyone already

(04:23):
has one. What are you going to do differently? Well,
it's a little scary these days, I would I could
not imagine trying to launch one. Yeah, there's a lot
of products on the shelf. I don't know how one
stands out. But um, once I started doing it, it
Actually I didn't even know what I was trying to
do until I started doing it, and then I realized like,

(04:45):
oh there is there was a niche for me to
be asking specifically, like what's going on with people's egos
and their emotions and all these things like that. That's
what I'm most interested in, And it's just by accident
that it happened to be something I think that was
unique or is unique resonating with people for sure, Yeah, yeah, um.

(05:06):
I think it's kind of cool to listen to people
you know or you believe you know a lot about
and you have an idea in your mind of how
they live and what they feel like today. I certainly
had it. That's why I moved out here. I'm like, oh,
I've been Nick Cage wakes up and does a backflip
out of bed, hobbs in a Ferrari, meets the hottest
girl in town and goes to lunch like they're probably
be anything, you know, any strife in his life? Uh?

(05:31):
And nor is it a woe is me poor me?
I'm famous and rich. It's not that either. It's just like, oh,
do these things, these accomplishments that we buy into that
if we accomplish them, we will love ourselves in wake
up without that voice in our head that tells us
we're a piece of ship, and generally speaking doesn't go away.
There isn't really anything you can accomplish that's going to

(05:52):
fix that stuff, and I find that, oddly, um comforting
to people and unifying. Yeah, it's comforting to sure. I
far prefer when I hear someone on a talk show,
you know, share a failing of theirs or a character defect,
I'm like, oh, good, good, I'm not as bad as
I think I am, Because if I'm just looking at
Tom Cruise, I'm like, well, I don't know, I guess

(06:13):
he's doing it perfect and I'm not. How where there? Yeah,
So it's been fun and then we just um, today
was our first episode of this thing I'm kind of
trying to spin off called Experts on Experts, where we
actually talked to doctors and professors. Yes, so today we
kind of launched on our platform, and that I hope
to kind of spin it off kind of the way

(06:35):
I guess Um Radio Left did more Perfect. Yeah, do
you listen to more Perfect? It's good, It's so tasty,
Holy smokes, it's the The whole show is about kind
of landmark uh Supreme Court decisions historically, you know, times
where they actually ended up taking power, you know, as

(06:56):
that leg they were really neutered for so long they
were I think they were in the basement of some building, uh,
you know, at the beginning of our country. And um,
just how they've slowly become a much more powerful force
and they do guide policy now and just you know,
it's it's a really fascinating road and they kind of

(07:16):
they go through these different cases and there's some of
the craziest cases you can imagine that actually overturned laws
or made the There's one in particular where they have
all these sodomy laws on the books and states. Yeah,
and um, they're they're really hard to get off the
books legislatively, Like no no local elected politician even wants

(07:40):
to take that on. Really. Yeah. Uh, just so casodomy
in their name in a headline. I'm sure that that's
not the pairing they were looking for. But just they
just don't want to they don't want to touch it.
And and then and then and generally they go, you know,
these aren't being enforced, so why you even deal with it? Uh.
And then there was this crazy case of these two

(08:01):
guys that were uh you know, they it was said
that they were in a fight upstairs and there was
a gun involved, blah blah blah from someone who called, Well,
that wasn't the case. But anyways, the cops show up
and there's two guys kind of engaged and you know,
some kind of activity that would violate the sodomy law.
And they're both belligerent. They're drunk and they're on drugs
and they won't cooperate. And the guy, the cop thinks,

(08:22):
I need to separate these two and I don't really
know what I can charge them with to get them
in the car and separate because they're gonna kill each other.
And so he charges them with sodomy and so they
end up in jail. And then a civil rights attorney
finds out about this case, someone who's been trying to
get the sodomy law off the books forever, and it's like,
finally we have a sodomy charge and we can fight this.

(08:44):
And these two guys, who now become the you know,
the the mascot of this movement, they want nothing to
do with it. Hey, they weren't having sex. And then
when you really go through the account of the different officers,
there in five seconds you recognize. So they could easily
defend this plead innocent and there there would be no conviction,

(09:06):
but they're urging them to plead guilty and to say
they work just so they can get it up to
the Supreme Court. So if these two guys that want
nothing to do with this case that the attorney has
to find them at different bars, they're always hammered, And
you're like, wow, that's that's how the sodomy laws were
struck down, you know, federally. You know that was on
the Radio Lab show that was a More Perfect, which

(09:29):
is a spinoff of It's a show that Radio Lab,
I guess produces. Oh so it's not the it's not
Jet and U. It's not Jet Apple, Rod Apple, Jad Apple,
Mamrod and Robert. Yeah. Yeah, those guys. That's in my

(09:50):
top three podcasts. But you know it's really funny. I'm
gonna share something with you that you wouldn't have known
about our our our relationship. Well May okay, So years
ago I was going to Atlanta to visit my wife
who was filming down there, and I was like, oh, stuff,
you should know guys are down there. And I tweeted
you and said like, I'll be in town. I want

(10:11):
to be on your show. I remember that, yes, And
you responded, And this is just so telling of how
fragile my self esteem. Is you tweeted back something. I
can't remember the details, but what I interpreted, well, that
was Josh. First of all, he does twitter, Oh he
does Okay, Okay, So Josh, I guess tweeted back something
and I forget the details, but what I what I

(10:32):
heard was, Ah, you're crazy if you think we're just
gonna let you come on the show. Yes. So that's
that's what I heard. Okay. So for the last couple
of years, I've been like, oh, those guys are real, Braddy.
They didn't want anything to do with me. I offered
to come down to Atlanta under their show. All this
goes on and then you maybe start but maybe it's Josh,

(10:52):
you start reaching out about doing this podcast, and I'm like,
I can't believe now that they've got the goal to
asked me to do this podcast. But let me just
tell you this, this is all going in your this
ultimately and embarrassment for you, for me, and and applaud
to you. I just I decide I think they couldn't
be this blatant about now inviting me on this other
podcast and are so rude to me about the other one.
And I actually took the time to search the tweet

(11:15):
and I found it. It wasn't offensive at all. Again,
I can't even remember, but I reread it probably on
that day. I was feeling better about myself, and I
was like, there's nothing offensive about this at all. Do
you remember what I didn't know? I wish I could
tell you the exact sentence, but but it just goes
to show there's nothing objective about a sentence. For me.
I read it one time two years ago and I

(11:35):
was like, you guys are mean. And then I read
it like a month ago and I was like, no,
they were nice, and the door was probably open. I
remember Josh saying that you tweeted, and I was like,
I was. We were trying to think of like, man,
let's do a show on muscle cars and get him.
We were brainstorming on what we could do. Uh, so
I have no idea what he would have. Still was
hoping to do something like anthropologically related or something. But

(11:58):
I love that show so much. I've I've steered as
many people as I can to like the Celiacs episode
was really fascinating, Like appreciate a three of the corn production.
How that changed? Yeah, yeah, well, we've know, we've we've
noticed you and your wife tweeting over the years here
and there. We've always appreciated it, um and I actually
met her. I don't know if she even told you
this in New Orleans. Did she tell you that? I

(12:20):
probably not. It was I was in New Orleans talk
very much, really talking commercials. Well, it was not a
big deal to her. It's probably why, Um. But we
were doing a live show in New Orleans and my
wife and I have almost three year old now, but
she was like eighteen months at the time, and they
came to New Orleans because we had friends there. We
were walking around. Emily comes out of a bakery and says,

(12:42):
Kristen Bell is in there. Ah, And I was I'm
not usually the kind of got a bug people, but
I know that you guys have been kind to tweet
about us. It was like, you know, I feel like
I should go in and say hi. Yeah, And she
sees me coming over, you know, lumbering over like a
big monster, Harry. And she's probably with Umur at that time,
three year old than six months your two daughters, and
then her assistant, her friend, and I could see it

(13:06):
on her face. I know that look like oh, Jesus,
what's what is this guy? Well, this interaction be like
so immediately, very quickly, it's like I'm just chuck from stuff.
You should know. I just want to say thanks for
for tweeting out support over the years. And she was
so sweet and even insisted that we change our daughter
in her booth because she was like, you can't go

(13:26):
in that bathroom. It's terrible. She was like, sit down
right here, change her right here. And she just could
not have been kind of that's very much my wife.
That was very fired to be as kind as she
is to everybody. Was delightful interaction. I doubt she was
thinking as you walked up anything negative now, because this
is the difference. I say, this is perfectly uh details

(13:49):
the difference between Bell and I. If we're walking down
the street and we see you walking at us, my
first thought is like, this guy is gonna go from
my wallet, and her first thought is like that guy
might your cancer? Like so you really is expecting yeah,
this is the best out everyone, Yeah, I'm expecting the worst.
Well that's a good match. And I listened to the
episode with you guys on your show, which was really great.

(14:12):
Oh thank you, and just good. As I said in
the entry, I really debated even putting it out. I'm like,
man is bicker for I think it's relatable, and like
I think everyone, especially if you're married, Um, you want
to hear real people talking about real life and marriage
is no picnic and it's tough. Well, and the reason

(14:32):
I so wanted to put it out was that I
feel like we can be a part of the problem
very easily. You know this problem I I would say,
with Instagram and Twitter and Facebook, where you're you're seeing
a very curated version of other people's lives and you're
starting to feel like you don't go on vacation and
you don't have barbecues. Life's not fun. And then you
look at us and it seems like our our day,

(14:54):
our day to day is me getting her a swath
or you know. And so I just worry that we're
setting some kind of example that's really fairy tally and
not realistic. And so the more I guess we can
be honest about that we go to therapy or that
we fight over stupid ship like going to Michael's, uh
you know, I mean maybe it's helpful. It is, it

(15:16):
is helpful, Yeah, And that that was great because I
had a buddy from Detroit. You said to me, it
was like, after this the sloth video had gone viral,
and if you don't know about that, I rented one
for the day for her birthday, right and I was
filming her and she was bawling. She was so excited.
There was a slot at the house and then she
showed it on Allen and then it became a really
viral video and my body from Detroit coast. You know what,

(15:40):
what you've just started, there's guys are going to be
trying to steal slows out of zoos to like make
their girlfriends happy. Like you've created. You're probably going to
be responsible for like twelve sloth desk this year. Someone
who thinks just like me, like the worst thing possible.
These are your old Detroit boys. Yeah, that always check
in with me to mind me I wear too much,

(16:01):
you know, moisturizer and stuff. So you grew up in Michigan, Um,
what was your How did movie spector into your life
growing up? Did you know you wanted to do this?
I had no idea. It did not seem even conceivable

(16:22):
being in Michigan. You know, we were all immersed in
the auto industry, and I loved cars and racing and
all that stuff, So that seemed like like the pipe
dream was like, oh, I want to be a race
card ever. But I think the reason movies became such
a um an important part of my childhood is that
it was something I did with my brother and nice

(16:43):
Papa Bob my dad's dad, and we generally went to
his house all summerks. My mom worked a ton and
she was a single mother. Um. So, Papa Bob was
just a great name and he lives up to the Yeah.
He he worked, He was a Golden Gloves boxer, heavyweight.
He looked at Wonderbread break Ery for forty years, and
he carried eighty pound bags of flowers. So his biceps

(17:06):
they look like Haul Colgan. So he's like he was
just a badass, larger than larger than life, so kind,
so loving, and he would take us to the movies
a couple of times a week all summer, And um,
I think this is actually one of your questions. I saw.
So I have a couple of first memories of movies,
but one of them was seeing Conan the Barbarians at

(17:29):
the drive in and being too young for that, because
you know there's a part where they dip this huge
cauldron over and bones are like rolling down the stairs
and stuff. Yeah, there's a pretty explicit sex scene in
that too, if I remember correctly, Yeah, yeah, that there is.
Um So that was one of my first movies, and
then the other two I really remember being My first
was ten with Bow Derek, which again was fully adult movie.

(17:52):
And here's the worst is my grandpa took me to
see Scarface when I was five or six. It came
out when I was five or six, and I was
pretty on board with the movie until they get to
the scene where they cut the guy up in a
tub with a saw, and at six years old, I
was like, Oh, my goodness, that's the world we live in,
Like this, this kind of thing happens in the world. Uh.

(18:13):
And then he took us to all the Porky's. It
was just he never crossed his mind what was age
appropriate or anything, so we were just seeing whatever he
wanted to see all summer long. And uh yeah. And
then I think, if I had to say what was
my first favorite movie, the one I just I couldn't
stop watching was Smoking the Bandit like once I discovered
that movie and we got it, you know. Uh, I

(18:35):
think I think we recorded it on VHS at my
dad's house. He had on TV and we recorded it
and we just watched that every single weekend. And when
we wrote Big Wheels, we were playing Bandit and Snowman
and everything. Um. I got a pretty good smoking in
the Bandit story. I would love to They shot that
a lot of that near our house and in Georgia

(18:57):
and around you know, Atlanta, like urban Atlanta, and uh,
A couple of things happened. One is Bert had a
signing one day that my mom drugged me down there
when I was jeez, I don't know how that would
have been, like what, you know, what year that movie?
I think? All right, so I would have been like
five or six five when they were making it. Just
remember standing line for a couple of hours. Yeah. Well,

(19:22):
I was like, all right, I got that he was
a movie star. My mom met him. Um are my
elementary school in our station Wagon is in one scene
right before they jump into the football field that was
like our little league, local little league football field. Really yeah,
and which is a kid? You know, It's like, oh
my god, wagon. Yeah, and here's you're gonna love this part.

(19:43):
For probably ten years after that movie, in our garage,
we had Jackie Gleeson's card door that got not the
kids a shareff store that somehow my dad came across
it really and eventually literally fucking threw it in the trash. Yeah,

(20:03):
that's what happens to these things. And I would buy
that right now, and I would hang in my living room.
My wife would kill me, but yeah, I would not crazy. Yeah,
the thing that I so, I did a movie with
Burt Reynolds, which one um without a Paddle. He was
in without a paddle and um, and we were New Zealand,
so he was kind of captive audience. There wasn't much

(20:24):
to do. And I would go to his trailer every
day at lunch and just thank him for details, you know,
which he was the perfect guy for that because he
loved telling story. I'm not just referring to him so
if he's passed, but um, he loves telling stories. He's
very gracious, I'm sure, and I think he enjoyed that.
They're like, you know, many generations after his was still obsessed.

(20:46):
He told me so many amazing things about that movie
and I and we got pretty close by the end
of it, and the whole time in my head, I
didn't out write asked for it, but I just asked
him like, hey, you still got that trans am jacket
you had in the movie, you know, because I was like,
if I could somehow get you know, willed that, I
would just wear that every single day. Um did have it,

(21:09):
He said he has, He said, he's, he said he
has everything rightly that he's ever And then I think
there's some big auction years ago, right in some financial trouble,
and I think a lot of that stuff got auctioned.
What a shame? Yeah, yeah, that and Hooper was my
big one. Can I sell you two great things about
Oh yeah, Hooper with you all the way? Yeah? Hell
need him? Plus Burt Reynolds. You're not gonna top that

(21:31):
Cannibal run, of course. But a couple of things about that.
He told me about um smoking the bandit and I'm
sure that you already know these, but Um, one of
the things was we were talking about Jackie Gleese and
you know, and he he just has so much reverie
for Jackie, and he said, you know, he's like I
had to fly down in New Orleans. I think he
lived there or something. I had to fly down and

(21:52):
convinced Jackie Gleason to do this movie. And the script
was never more than a forty page outline. There was
not there was no dialogue. It was just like an
outline for a movie. And he had to like say
to Jackie, like, it's gonna be great. You can say
whatever you want and let's do it. And he got
him to do it. And so just I love the

(22:13):
notion that everything Jackie Gleeson saying it's just coming out
every time. Yes, he's just and he said, you know,
he drank heavily on set, Jackie Gleason and uh, and
he and he had an assistant, Uh, James. And he
would say to James, James hamburger, and he'd hold his
hand out and James would but a glass of vodka

(22:35):
in his hand, and then he'd go, James, cheeseburger, and
he put his fingers out and James will put a
lit cigarette and his fingers And then Rental said, why
do you call it hamburger and cheeseburger? He goes, I
can't have anyone know when I'm drinking on set, So
what's so great? When you watched the movie knowing Matt
thinking about how much how many scenes they have with him,

(22:57):
like hauling nasked down the road, big Pontiac, Cataline or
Bonnaville or whatever, driving at speed, full speed stes knowing
that Jackie is probably half in the bag. What a
different era. Yeah, that's great. Cheetsburger, James cheeseburger, like anybody
I know. Yeah, he's just having a tall glass of

(23:18):
ice water three times. Was just like he was the
coolest dude. Absolutely, there was no one bigger. No, he
was the biggest um. I was corrected about this. I
made this claim on my show, but he was the
biggest box office straw for like seven out of the
ten years or something. He has some incredible record that
no one's really ever topped. And the thing that is

(23:40):
so impressive about him is exactly that you could send
him somewhere with no script and just cameras in a device,
be it a boat for Gator or or a trans
am for this, or a hooper another transam, you know,
and he could make something amazing on nothing, which I
just I don't think you could send too many movie
stars away and just go good luck. I hope you

(24:04):
make it. There's no script, figure it out. Yeah, and uh,
it's it's just really impressive because I think Smoking the
Band was the second biggest movie of that year, second
or third made like a hundred and eight million dollars
and stunt savage back then, this crazy money, yeah, gigantic. Yeah, yeah, man,
I love that movie and Hooper just I was really
sort of obsessed with stuntmen and stunts and to see

(24:27):
a movie about only that was for a little whatever
twelve year old me or however old I was, was
like just the best. Yeah. Yeah, that informed fantasy of
what a stunt man's life was, you know, Like I
saw that movie and I'm like, oh, that's how it is.
They have sweet ranches, their horses been down and open
their beer for them. They getting fist fights, they're fighting

(24:48):
every night. Yeah, they're banging Sally Field, Like what what
what could be a better occupation? Yeah? Yeah, and they're
doing stuff and their buddies are patent him on the
back and stuff. Yeah. Those dark side too, though, Like
I remember even as a kid seeing like him taking
those bills and yes, like put together with duct tape
and spit and yeah. Yeah, And I think especially during

(25:10):
that period. Um, you know, the notion of opioid addiction
and all that was really on the front anyone's mind.
So yeah, he was. He was also pretty honest about
that stuff. I was really curious about all the addiction
in that circle. And it's pretty it was pretty high.
Like you find in the you know, X game athletes.
These guys are living in tremendous pain and just beating

(25:32):
their bodies up. It's pretty hard to just moderately take
opiates for a decade, I imagine. Yeah, it just kind
of you eventually start having to ramp up. Well, I
imagine even just and this is something you've done, like
jumping a car, Yeah, probably takes a toll on your body. Well,
especially back then. I will say I had the great

(25:52):
luxury of when I jumped a car in a movie,
I had thirty inches of suspension trial. You know they
were jumping, you know, they were jumping set and D's
full size colors that way, it's six thousand pounds, no
suspension modification, and they're just landing, bottoming out, breaking seats
and that's what they did. And then yeah, it's nuts.

(26:12):
Well the craziest have you ever watched um Road Warrior
with the commentary on no, no, it's pretty enlightening. Uh.
If you remember at the end of Road Warrior, there's
a huge stunt with a semi truck and they were
shooting that movie in the dead middle of Australia, right,
so they were out in the middle of nowhere, and

(26:33):
they knew that that stunt was had such a high
probability of the stunt man getting hurt that they made
him prep for surgery before the stunt. You know how
you have you can't eat for whatever it is. And yeah,
so he was fully prepped to go straight to surgery
after that accident. And then they also say, and we
went through it frame by frame, as that truck is

(26:56):
crashing a guy on a motorcycle like t bones something,
he's supposed to fly over that, and they miscalculated that,
and the guy just flew full body legs into the
side of the semi And if you go frame by frame,
you just watch this guy guy's legs just break. Yeah. Yeah,
they were doing things. In fact, I watched this Hell

(27:18):
Need Him documentary ones and uh, I haven't heard of that.
It was a real cheap one. It was like twenty
best stunts and you know, it's like a real shifty one.
That was like it was not an HBO documentary, but
they were talking about the stunt and cannonball run where
the duly pickup truck jumps over the train like so

(27:39):
trains flying down the tracks and then as luck would
have it, there's a couple of the cars that are
not full box cars and flatbed train cars and this
they jump a dually over this moving train in that
little gap. Remember that and their interview and hell need
him and they said, like, you know, what was the
preparation for that. He goes, well, we just saw new

(28:00):
we had to get it right, or the next day
we were going to be walking with our heads hung
low at a funeral. And I was like, wait, that
those are the options, like we get it right or
we're going to this guy's funeral and you guys then
did it. I think it's changed so much because I'm
really involved with the stunt team when I'm driving a
movie and all those guys are my friends. That's how

(28:21):
they we even kind of came to do the movies together.
Um yeah, and they're just they're crazy safe. Now. Yeah,
imagine so much preparation goes into everything, yes, and even
you know, I think I know that stuff, but I'll
be about to do something and they'll come over and
they'll like check my harness and they're like, hey, dumb, dumb,
you can since the bottom leave the top loose. That's
how you break your back, you know, Like just they

(28:43):
know they know what they're doing. Now. Is jumping a
card one of the most fun things ever? Um, it's
pretty awesome. It's definitely awesome. But I hate to go
ten year old kid on you, but yeah, there was
so much like that. That movie Hit and Run was
just me living out my smoking demand in fantasy. That's
all it was. It was like a sun Dance version
of smoking in the band. And what was a really

(29:06):
stupid decision I made h before that stunt happened, was, Uh,
we're in a barn in my off road race car,
and then we drive through the barn door and on
the other side we jumped these cars. And I was like, listen,
I don't want to cheat. I want to be able
to show this whole thing in one take. In my stunt.

(29:28):
Corners like you're never going to use this whole thing
in one take, blahlah, And I'm like no, I want
to use it in one take. So my wife and
I are and Christians really in the car too. I
had hired her stunt, her stunt double that day, and
she goes, why is why is my stunt double here.
I'm like, because we're doing the car jump today. She
was into it and she goes, why can't I be
in the car And I'm like, I don't know if

(29:48):
it goes wrong, I don't want you to break I
don't want to, you know, be on my shoulders that
your back's broken. And she goes, well, that means your
back could break two and I don't want to push
you around a wheelchair the rest of my life. Like,
if you're you're I want to break mine, We'll just
get pushed around the wheels like sound logic. So she
was in the car too. So we're in the in
the barn and you have to imagine the difference in

(30:10):
light inside the barn. The barn is dark, and then
as soon as we crashed through this real barn door,
it's just bright high dune sun. And then the ramps
are you know, eighteen inches wide, So I got to
hit those ramps. It was very stressful because of my
my my eyes having to adjust within twenty ft, so

(30:34):
I make sure I hit those ramps. I didn't need
to do any of that. I could have just started
with the barn door open. We could have filmed the jump.
Then we could have film me, you know, driving through
the barn door. I didn't end up using it all
in one take. My Sardar was completely right. Yeah. Uh
and so that was a total waste of time and risks.
And how fast were you going? Not that fast, I

(30:55):
bet Yeah, the ramp was quite yeah. Yeah. And I
had jumped that car like that for fun many times,
just there were never any cars underneath. And have you
um done like legit car racing and stuff too? Yes? Yes,
that that that car, that that off road car in
that movie was my real off road race car that

(31:16):
I raced, okay in desert racing, like you know, a
few hundred miles on a racing uh. Yeah. And then
I also raced in this um series called the Super
Trefao Series where it's all dead equal Lamborghinis and it's
in the American Lamon's series. And I did that for
a season. Yeah, so you're in. I love it. I

(31:40):
love it so much. I had I stopped that after
the year on the Super Trefao because my daughter was
I want to say, like two was the first time
she had ever gotten really um sick or she had
like the flu or she you know, she had a temperature.
She just really snuggling. And it was the day of
a race in Fontana, and I was like snuggling her,
and I'm like, I get on the road to go

(32:00):
to Fontana, but she really wants to snuggle the whole
ride to Fontana. I'm like feeling, how many trophies do
you need? Like what's the number your egos? After? When
do we know we're done with this? Because you at
least need to know because this is could just go
on forever. What are you chasing exactly? Like, what is
it twenty trophies that will that make you feel like

(32:22):
a man? So I decided that I was done with it.
And but now that was three years ago and I'm
now recently feeling like I'm I'm ready to race. Well,
and there's a race. Um. I raced a month and
a half ago in the UTV World Championship in Lafla, Nevada. Uh.
It was very violent, Yeah, it was, it was It

(32:44):
was it was incredibly rough off road course and I
was used to racing a full size like one car,
the car that was in the movie, and this was
in a Plari's Razor, which is indestructible. They're awesome, but
it was just a lot more violent inside than and
it's a hundred and fifty mile race. So my neck
was just shot. Yeah, by the end of it, again,

(33:06):
it was my eagle need this because the recovery, you know,
it was a few days. Do you have to train
for that? I did not train for them, but you should, Yeah,
you should probably, Yeah, a little bit, just like physically
had shot the night before till ten thirty at night,
right like two blocks over on this Netflix show. Then
got in the car, then drove to Laughlin, Nevada. Then

(33:29):
had to check into a hotel that had no clean rooms.
So by the time I got into my hotel room
was four am. And then I had to wake up
at eight am and Gold Race and it was a
hundred degrees in the desert. There's a lot of things
variables that made it. Yeah, it could have been set
up to enjoy it more than I did. Yeah, I see,
I'm not a car guy. No, even even having loved
smoking the bandit. Yeah, I mean, trust me, if I

(33:51):
saw like that trans am right down the street, I would,
you know, things would happen in my body. Absolutely, cortisoles
and you'd have a real dump. But I've never been
into um, although it did have a Plymouth Valiant style
wise that was a cool car. But I was never
into like driving fast, probably because yeah, I've never done it.

(34:15):
Imagine if someone ever took me out to the Porsche
track in Atlanta. Yeah, probably. Well you have one of
the best tracks in the world, Road Atlanta's and amazing
race track at the country. Yeah. Um. You know, I
worked for General Motors for years too, for fourteen years,
and I used we used to do a lot of
car shows at Rood Atlanta, and so we would stay
around Lake Lanier and so a lot of my or

(34:38):
you know, my teenage years in early twenties were spent
around there. Yeah, what did you do for them? We
would throw these gigantic events for journalists. So let's say
the new Corvette came out six months before it hit
the show rooms, We'd invite everyone to road you know, Atlanta,
put them up for a week. They'd have meals, they'd
have transportation and during the day they'd be on the track.

(35:00):
There'd be the full track and there'd be autocross track,
and then you would have like an off road event
in the infield and just let all the automotive journalists
drive everything, and then they write stories about it and
GM gets a bunch of free press. Basically, it's a
cool gig for you at the time. I guess dream
job from fourteen to twenty eight, that's I just that's great. Yeah,
we're you're on the road NonStop all my friends, um,

(35:22):
and you're driving super cool cars on racetracks. So you
didn't get into acting until after that? Well no, Um.
I moved to l A when I was twenty, So
from twenty to eight I was pursuing acting. Also went
to u C. L A and was going through the
ground lanes and becoming a ground lane. I was doing
all that stuff. Uh, And then I would go away

(35:42):
for like ten days at a time to show, come
back and it was a great way for me to
kind of not have to have a day to day job.
I would just work a ton in these very concise
periods of time, you know, because I do we show.
You'd work like add ten hours a week. Yeah, so
that was interesting. So you had your your feet in
two pools. I did, and I'm not a very spiritual

(36:07):
person or the secret person, but I will say I
decided to quit doing that for whatever reason. I was
just like, this is making it too easy for me.
I'm going to quit doing this. And right as I
was running completely out of money to force your hand
as an actor, you think, I mean, now, in retrospect,
I think maybe that was it. But yeah, maybe once

(36:27):
or twice I had been out on a car show
and some opportunity had come up that I was out
of town for. I think that's what motivated it. But yeah,
I quit that, and then I was it was right
leading up to Christmas and I actually had no money
to buy Christmas presents for anyone. I was like, okay,
we're at zero. It's getting serious. And then I got
punked like that week maybe, And that was the first

(36:49):
was the first yeah kind of acting job I ever
got after eight years of auditioning. And so once I
got that, then you know, I've worked pretty consistently for
the last I guess fifteen years or some things. Men,
When what did um? How did acting come about? Like? You.
Then when Michigan, you didn't seem like am possibility. Where
was that born? I wanted to do comedy, I wanted

(37:09):
to do stand up. I was like, I think I'm funny. Uh,
I'm certainly in trouble a lot at school. I think
I could parlay this and out stand up. Yeah. And
I was a writer. I always wrote. I wanted to,
you know, I wrote a book of short stories. But
when I was nineteen, I tried to get published. Like
I also very much wanted to be a writer. So
the idea of of writing a stand up routine appealed

(37:30):
to me and all this, and I just was too
scared to do it. In Detroit, I'm like, I can't
do it. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't end up
doing stand up until way later. So I I go,
if I move all the way to California, there's no
way I'm gonna push out and not do this. And
then I got out here and I was like, no,
still too scary. So I knew the groundlings did sketch

(37:53):
comedy and improv, and I thought, well, God, if I
could be up there on stage with other people, that
might lessen the fear of it all. And so I
did that. And then once I started doing that, I
just loved sketch comedy, I loved improv and I really
fell in love with acting like I started. You know,
I went from having never acted to having act often
and I really liked it. And then uh, and then

(38:15):
punked happened. Yeah, and I would be auditioning for like
commercials and stuff that whole eight years. But I was
quite bad at that. Um. But what's funny is about
I don't know, maybe six years ago, I go, oh
my god, you still never did it. You didn't do
stand up. You came all the way out here some
I thought you had no no, and I'm like, I'm
gonna go do it. No, I did it. Did about

(38:37):
six years ago I started doing stand up and I
did it for maybe two years. Yeah, and it's probably
a lot around l A and I did shows in
Vegas and stuff, and um, I did end up really
loving it. But it's it's crazy how scary it still remained.
And in fact, that story I just told you about
the jump in the car out of the barn, my
stunt Cortnaner Steve de Castro, who's a great friend of my.

(39:00):
Right before action, he dips his head in the car
and he's like, how are you feeling? And I go good.
He goes but like, out of ten, what's your fear level?
And I go, okay, out of ten. If stand up
is a ten, I feel like I'm at a four
right now. Like that's the disparaging between. I'd rather jump
a car over cars all day long and have to
walk out on a stage and you gotta stay there

(39:22):
for twenty minutes whether it goes good or bad. Yeah,
just by far, the scariest thing for me is that
is stand up. Yeah. It's funny because when Josh and
I do our live shows now we get up in
front of a thousand people. In the first ten or
fifteen minutes, is us almost doing like a dual stand
up just city stuff and local flavor stuff and doing

(39:43):
the room work and um. But there there are people
that love us and would laugh at anything that we say. Um,
not anything we say, but it's a it's a rabbit audience. Yeah, yeah,
but I can't imagine. I don't get nervous to say
the least there or they cleared their fans right, and
that is a completely different thing. Like I don't get

(40:03):
nervous at all about doing that. But I cannot imagine,
and I've been writing at stand aback for fifteen years,
but I can't imagine going up in front of a
room full of strangers and doing that. Well. I have
a similar experience as you, which is I started going
around a lot to do Q and a s for
movies I was in, and I found that I loved that.
There's nothing I enjoy more than sitting, like in a

(40:23):
movie theater with people doing a Q and a two hours.
I did love just talking to people and hearing questions
and stuff, and that is that's not as scary for me,
and I just love it. So I'd have those experiences
and I would think, oh, no, you can entertain a
group of a hundred people for a while. But yes,
something clicks when you go out there and you're like,
I'm gonna move through this beat, this beat right, and

(40:44):
if and if that beat doesn't work, then I really
I don't have a foundation for the rest of this thing. Yeah,
I can't imagine that. It's got to get in your
head if something bombs, the joke bombs. But you can't
you can't do that right right, and you can't get
in your head about you gotta go out there and
got to go this is the story I would like
to hear as an audience member, and just I'm going

(41:05):
to tell that, and you know, if it goes my way, great,
If it doesn't, it's still the story I wanted to
tell you. Or whatever. However we trick your brain into
not being so nervous about it. Um. But yeah, those
um to your point about people they're gonna laugh at
you because they like you. I think it's maybe Seinfeld.
I heard on Howard Stern saying it's a double edged

(41:25):
sword as a comedian to walk out there, Like when
Seinfeld walks out there, he's gonna get three minutes of laughing, laughing,
and that's the residual, Hey, we love you. But then
it's gonna flip, and it's like when that passes, you've
gotta deliver. You almost got to deliver more so, I
think in a weird way, when I started doing it
around l A, I think a lot of or maybe

(41:47):
this is in my head again. I already proved that
I'm not a very objective evaluator of how people feel
about me. But I I'd go out there and sometimes
I would feel like people would be thinking, wait, this
dude got to get on a show with Sarah Silverman,
but he's not even a comic, you know. I felt

(42:07):
like the comedy snobs in l A, at least half
of them, were definitely gutting for me to eat ship.
I think it was like, sure, you're right. Some some
were excited I was there, and others were like, this
is bullshit. He didn't earn this. Yeah, there's a bit
of a I've met a lot of the comedy types
out here, and most of them are great people, but
I have noticed a bit of like stay in your

(42:28):
lane ya type of thing, like I've been trying to
do this, and especially as you like someone with so
much notoriety, like hey, I'm going to do stand up now.
I'm sure there was a lot of cynicism, and again
maybe it was just completely in my head, but you know,
I guess you can only see the world as good
as you see the world. So I'm a dick. Sometimes
I'm cynical. I'm like, why is this guy doing this?

(42:50):
Or why you know? So? Because I'm guilty of that.
Of course, I assume other people that way, because I
assume that everyone's kind of the same scumbag I am
on some level, you know. Like my example had just
occurred to me the other day was I'm regularly getting
frustrated in traffic when someone cuts me off. I go
straight to this guy is selfish, he's arrogant, he's blah

(43:12):
blah blah. Kristen goes straight to which is correct, is
it's probably situational. Either he wasn't paying attention, he ran
out of lane, or he's on his way to help
his kid at school, whatever it is, right, And I
realized the reason she does that is that she's never
cut anyone off trying to get ahead, So how could
she even conceive that someone is doing it? Well, I
have I'm a dick. I've tried to take what's not mine,

(43:33):
you know, I tried to get more than I'm entitled to.
So of course I assume the guy who just cut
me I was doing the same thing I'm doing, because
you know, I don't think I'm a monster, but I
do it. Yeah, one thing that I try to do now,
as far as day to day goes, is I'm a
little bit like you as far as um you know what,
an asshole like that person even not even traffic, just

(43:55):
day to day, and I try and think of now
as an adult with a child. I try and think
what what's happened to them that day, Like there's probably
a story behind why that person was so rude or
what happened, and they're just not like just wired that way. Yes,
but some people are wired that way. Sure, I think
everyone's were half right half the time, both Christen and I. Yeah,

(44:17):
but it's a better way to go through life, assuming
the best. Because by the way, and this is what
kind of got me off of my road rage, is
that the only person losing in the scenarios me. I'm
the one with the adrenaline dump and the cortisol dump,
and I'm the one that's mad for nine minutes after
that interaction, not the other person's like I'm drinking that mad. Yes,

(44:40):
so I'm losing, you know. Yeah, the dots of like, oh,
even if I got out and beat this guy to
death on the side of the road, I'm gonna pay
a heavy price for that, just biologically, you know, it's
not you have to have a system though. You can't
just turn that off, that's right, And I have a system,
So I'll start paying attention to a guy who I

(45:02):
think is driving like an asshole. Again, I'm probably the
worst offender of this. I'm sure if I was running
behind myself, I would want to run me off the road.
So I acknowledge that. But I start monitoring some guy
right because I know switching lanes behind and now I said,
I'm gonna block this lane actively police seeing the roadway,

(45:24):
and I'll feel myself start to do all that. And
I forced myself to read the license plate number of
the car in front of me, and so I read
that license plate number, and then I forced myself to
try to find another license plate number, and I just
try to I try to redirect my focus because I
just started obsessing about this guy behind me. And by
the way, it's at the time a guy and not

(45:46):
a woman. Says a lot already we're the worst. Um
so yeah, if I can, I can, I just force
myself to concentrate on something else, it will go away.
There's a science to that. I would imagine, did you
create that or did someone that was something I came
up with? You interesting? And that little redirect is what
kind of gets off that. Yes, and so now again
all these things and this is something I learned through

(46:09):
sobriety is a lot of these things that feel very
unnatural when you take contrary action. They are unnatural for
a while, but your your brain is habitual by nature.
So the more you do things, you can make things
instinctual to yourself, just through repetition. So now when I
I just every time that happens, I'm getting quicker and

(46:29):
quicker and quicker at just looking at a license plate
and making myself read the numbers out allowed, And it's
just now getting more effortless. Yeah, good for you. Good good.
That's what you're doing on your show too. I think, yeah,
I think it's like you're making a difference. I can't not, Uh, yeah,
I can't. I'm only so interested in someone winning ANEMI
or something, yeah, you know, which is very little. Yeah,

(46:52):
all right, well we need to get into Raising Arizona. Yeah,
let's do that. Um, when I asked you about doing this,
you you sent along h Thief or Raising Arizona at
the Great James con movie. You've seen it? Yeah, yeah,
not a lot of people have seen it. Yeah, I
mean it was I think I saw it, not when
it came out, because it's one or something. Yeah, I

(47:13):
would have been like ten years old. But um, I
saw it later on, like I think, like in college.
Really good movie, but since you were kind enough to
give me the choice. Raising Arizona is a movie that
is part of my dna U. I have seen it
so many times. It's almost like that movie is almost
like um being into apple before there was an apple.

(47:34):
You know, It's like an identity to love to love
that movie when I was younger, Like I could I
feel like I could separate the wheat from the chaff.
Isn't the expression like I if I met a group
of ten people and I could isolate the three that
love it's Raising Arizona. I knew we would be good. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Before we move on from Thief, I just want to
ask people to see it. It's it's one of Michael

(47:55):
Mann's first movies, if not his first movie, and it's
where he established that crazy, weird genre that's onto himself
with this really surreal music and this beautifully shot like
crime sequences. It's it's just it's one of the most
unique movie, especially in the context of what was being
made in at that time. That opening scene where he's

(48:15):
cracking that safe, I'm just like in the in Its
Tangerine Dream, they did the soundtrack. It's so I I
just nothing no, no moment in the movie makes me
feel like that opening. Yeah, yeah, it's just so great. Okay.
So that's enough about Thief movie too. And if you
love Heat, Heat is almost the exact same movie as Thief.

(48:35):
It truly is the same movie, down to the cars
they drive. James Cohn drives in eighty two Cadillac El Dorado,
which was the coolest Cadillac you could drive in eighty two.
That the sedans weren't cool, that two door was cool. Um.
And then our hero and Heat drives a ninety two
or three Cadillac Sts, which was the coolest Cadillac. Both Black,
his partner James Blushi or John Belushi, James Blushi and

(49:00):
in Thief was driving or eight two Corvette, and then
Val Kilmer was driving nine Corvette. It's like even the
cars were the same. Yeah, that had to be intentional.
I wonder he's a big car nut. Michael Man. Yeah,
he's a big gear ahead Yeah. Yeah, okay, sorry, alright,
So raising Arizona, my first experience seeing this movie was

(49:21):
in the theater. We had a theater near us that
we would go to UM after church a group a
little church boy, so after like youth group, we would
all like pile in and go to these ninety nine
cent movies, just no matter what was playing. And I
had not heard of the Cohen Brothers at the time,
of course UM because Blood Simple was their only other film.

(49:41):
And this movie changed the way, literally changed the way
I looked at movies and comedy especially. I had never
seen anything like it, and it just blew me away
at sixteen years old, just a big sea change for me. Yeah,
I did not see it in the theater. I wish

(50:03):
I had UM. I discovered it later on TV, and
in fact, I was flicking through the stations and it
started the moment Hi goes into the grocery store or
goes into the convenience store to steal the Huggies. So
I don't know what this movie is, but I love
Nick Cage as a kid, and so I started watching.
And that sequence, to this day is the best set

(50:25):
piece I've ever seen in my life, where it goes
to steal the Huggies and the guy pulls the gun
on him, then she picks him up and they've run
through a grocery store and they're chased by the dogs
and exactly what you're saying. It was the first time
where I thought, this is really different, this is not
something is different here about this movie and what is it?

(50:47):
And that's the first time I got kind of aware
of the mechanics of making a movie, you know, Like
I didn't know it at the time. But they shot
that whole movie I think on like eight team mill
lens or some some super wide lens. They never had
a long lens, and they always brought the camera close
to everybody, moved the camera back and uh, by the way,
on Miller's Crossing, there's a great extra on the DVD

(51:08):
where Barry Sanenfeld, who shot that movie, he was a
tutorial on being a DP. He was like a twenty
minute explanation of how you shoot movies. It's invaluable for you,
I want to watch movies. But he goes a lot
into how they decided to shoot raising Arizona, and it
points out these different scenes in there that are are
pretty unique. But yeah, I just I started thinking, huh,

(51:31):
this is very mindful, Like this whole thing is is
very specific, and and they've they've um constructed this movie
differently than any movie I've ever seen, and it got
me thinking about that stuff. Yeah, I mean I had
never seen comedy like this, um, and it really part
of it was like it was it was screwball in
a lot of ways. But then the dialogue was so

(51:52):
different than anything I had heard, which apparently they used
the Bible as a big reference, like that makes sense,
you know this to these and owls and this sort
of flowery uh, even though like he's literally lives in
a trailer like an airstream. Yeah, yeah, um, congruity with
the way they all spoke. With John Goodman's character, the

(52:13):
way he spoke, he was so lofty, yeah, which was great.
They literally bust out through like a sewer pipe, I guess, yes.
And everyone's so polite right there. He's calling her mam
the whole time. Why don't you breastfeeding him? But yeah,
I think the first thing that kind of ropes unless
you saw in the order right it, which is I
just saw that sequence and I'm like, what movie is this?
And then I later figured out what that movie was called,

(52:35):
and then I watched it from beginning, and I do
think the first bit of bait is the dialogue like
right out of the gates, right there's when he's sitting
in the jail cell and the guy's explaining how he
made Crawdad. Man, it's just what a bizarre conversation was,
so weird. Yeah, you ate Sand? What we ate Sand?
He ate Sand? Well, it just starts out the energy. Um,

(52:59):
I mean that whole opening sequences eleven minutes before they
get to that title sequence, and you hear the tickling
of the banjo throughout and then the yodel comes in
at eleven minutes in, which is I mean it's only
a ninety four minute movie, so that's a big chunk
of the movie. Is just that big long opening sequence
to establish everything. Yeah, so right away they're like breaking

(53:19):
the structure that you're so used. Yeah, it's like it's
already you're trying to file this thing into your head.
Is it? You know, is it Caddy Shack? Is it?
You're comparing to other comedies and like it's just not fitting.
I can't find a category for this movie. Yeah, especially Yeah,
the state of comedy and where it was it was
nothing like this, and it just starts with so much momentum. Yeah,

(53:40):
that eleven minutes you know, just this long montage where
you're learning everything about them, and they're perfectly establishing the
tone right from the very beginning. Holly Hunter so the
unbrilliant great yeah. Yeah. One of the interview after this
is a broadcast news great movie and Holly Hunter just
she's flawless. Yeah. And Nick Cage he was twenty three

(54:03):
years old he made this movie. I mean it's just
so funny now in my mid to late forties, like
it's just like a child Yes, it seems like yes,
And you know, the like kind of Hollywood lore of
that whole thing is that they did not get along,
you know that part of it. I think I read
the Coen Brothers bad fit, Yeah, because they're very specific,

(54:28):
Like every every you Know and you Bet You and
Fargo is written right, very specifically, yeah, and they knew
exactly how they wanted to shoot it right, so that
when when a director has that specific of a game plan,
visually your options as an actor start diminishing, because you're
going to have to stand here, then you're gonna to
jump there, then you gotta turn eighty degrees, you're gonna

(54:48):
look at this camera. Right, It starts getting really mechanical,
and I think Nick Cage was fighting that. Um but
I've known for years that that they had not gotten along.
He's want of the guys to never reappear in one
of their movies. Um. But I heard later, I don't
know where I heard him interviewed, but he said he
made a pretty good point, which is, yes, I was

(55:10):
really difficult on that movie. But what everyone after me
had the advantage of that I didn't have the advantage
of is they hadn't made Raising Arizona yet. They had
made Blood Simple and which it was a good movie,
but it wasn't like, oh, here's the new cecil b
de Mill. So they were asking me to do a

(55:30):
lot of weird stuff that felt, you know, not instinctual
to me, and I fought it. These guys that no
one's heard of. Yes, but everyone since that movie you
go there and you go, yeah, tell me where to
stand and tell me where to look. I trust you.
I know this is going to be the best thing
I'm ever in. That's a very good point. Actually. Yeah,
so I totally can sympathize with why it wasn't It
didn't go well. What about I mean, I guess he

(55:51):
also and you can kind of see bits of it
still in the movie. But he wanted his character to
have this huge preoccupation with time, so he had a watch,
and I guess he was constantly checking his watch every
single scene. This is just what I've heard. I mean,
this is true enough, um, but it was just driving
them nuts that he couldn't get off this whole his
whole preoccupation with time. But there's a couple. Once I

(56:14):
heard that and I watched, I was like, oh, there's
still some snug looking for it. Yeah, that they didn't
cut out. In fact, m I I blatantly stole from
that movie. My favorite fight scene is them in the trailer.
It's the best fight scene. And our chips schedule when
we shot that it was very running gun. We didn't

(56:34):
have as many days as you would normally have for
an action movie, but as Luckwood had it, we had
this rain cover set and I knew I was going
to be in this house for two days, which was
way more time than we ever got, and it was
just supposed to be a fight. And I said, wait,
we actually have some time here, Like, let's all watch
that fight scene about forty times this weekend. And then
let's let's really map out one that's on par with that.

(56:57):
And so I did my best to do that in
one of these fight scenes and ships. It's really fun
to try to think of it. They're the way they
thought of it. Well, it's in that fight scene is
between John Goodman and Nick Cage is uh, it's so
like I remember seeing when I was sixteen. It's so bananas,
so many little things with like him scraping the knuckles

(57:20):
on the scene popcorn ceiling, which trailers don't even have
popcorn ceiling. Well, yeah, they have the cardboard that's painted. Yeah,
and then and then like ramming his elbow through the
window and then punching through the dry walls. It's just
like nothing I've ever seen before. He picks throw some
through the wall. Oh yeah, it's it's the funnest fight

(57:41):
scene ever. And all those great, uh first person perspective shots,
like when he's spinning him around the room. Yes, it's
just it's just off the hook crazy, yeah, really really inventive.
I would like to know if they were had they
seen a fight scene they were trying to vision number
or something, because it really not They're hadn't and I
had never seen one like that. No, actually, I mean

(58:04):
it seems like you can only think of as pure
Cohen brothers now. But at the time, yeah, they were.
They were young. And when you're watching a movie, isn't
it funny When I when I watch a movie, I'm like,
right out of the gates, probably I've seen too many movies.
Now I'm basically as the movie starting, I'm starting to
compile one of two things, either red flags or oh

(58:27):
that was original. And to me, the movie I just
evaluated by like how many red flags versus how how
many really original things did I see? Which is hard
these days, it is. But when they show the ward
Hog from Hell and they say he was particularly hard
on the little er things and he just shoots up
like an iguana, just a lizard off of a rock

(58:50):
for no reason and somehow saw it on his own
recycle decided to kill it while driving by, Yeah, and
he hand grinades a bunny, And that that start I
believe the Cohen's trend, which is why my wife doesn't
love their movies. Of animal cruelty and so many of
their movies. If you notice there's little things while they
were they will kill an animal, Uh, huh. Yeah. Well,

(59:12):
they do a great job of exploiting violence for comedy, yeah,
which is not a lot of people that do it well,
like I think Martin Scorsese obviously. So many of those
gruesomely violent scenes are really hysterical. Yeah, mean streets. I
remember I had a pretty funny pool room beat down scene. Yeah,
and my I remember my dad and I scene because

(59:34):
uh not Cassino goodfellas together in the movie theater And
when they grabbed the poor mail man and just started
beating the ship out of the guy and they slam
his head in the pizza oven. They're slamming the door
and said, don't you bring any more male to this
kid's house? Na were billy laughing, screaming, right, It was
very polarizing. Half the audience was like mortified, and half
us were dying laughing. Another one of my favorite scenes

(59:57):
earlier in Raising Arizona Too, is the great scene with
Trey Wilson after the baby is kidnapped. Um, when he's
talking to the Yeah, when he's talking to the cops,
just such a classic scene. I don't know him. I
thought that was like I'd never heard dialogue like that.
It was the funniest scene to me, furniture, I mean,

(01:00:19):
one of the great lines. And he's just so so
great in that movie. Yes, and you know, Christian Dior
just like so many little lines like that peppered throughout
Uh huh and and yeah, I guess now when you
say that, it does make me think that that is
where I've stole it from. When I've made movies, I've tried,
like my, just my, my, My guideline is everyone's gonna

(01:00:42):
play this fucking dead sincere like that from the bottom
of your heart is the most serious thing. And yeah,
him in that scene, he's playing it like his kid
was really abductive. There's no comedy in it and it's hysterical. Yeah. Yeah, No,
Lead so great And I didn't see him a whole lot.
I know he's a character actor that's done some other stuff,

(01:01:02):
but to me, he exists as as Nathan Arizona. Yeah,
he also was an admiral in the movie. He's played
maybe a lot of or something. Is that maybe he
seems like a general type Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.
Uh and then um, one of my other favorite sequences
is with the when Francis mcdormant and uh dot and

(01:01:26):
Glenn show up, such a great that whole sequence is great,
all those crazy kids and yeah, as in what does
he say that when they're out by the whole they're
they're out in the barbecue, I guess. And he's like, uh,
as in to swing as in Doton swingers. And then
he punches um and then he's clearly punched him, like

(01:01:47):
forty away. It's from the camerangle. He's like, keep yours off,
montagn wife, Well you little kids writing fart on the wall. Yeah,
and Holly huh and uh. Francis mcdormant is so great
in that too. Yeah, and that's I know. She was
in Blood Simple, which I saw later, but that was
my introduction to Holly Hunter as dot and she's just

(01:02:07):
so great, Yes, so funny. Yeah, did you get your
dip shot? Gotta get your dip shot? Have you worked?
He was always say, Buford smartest, hell, he knows his A,
B season everything. And then he just he goes hit
the duck and he chucks a handful of Eminem's across
someone's living room and it hits the walls. And that guy, um,

(01:02:28):
what's his name, Oh yeah, he's h Sam McMurray. He's
so good in that. I'm so glad you printed out
all the names. Yeah, because people like that, don't they
don't get their due. Yeah, of course William forsythe is
the other, uh, the other bad Gail and uh I
can't remember the other. You know, the brothers. Yeah, um,
awfully good corn flights Mrs mc so. We finally get

(01:02:54):
to the robbery sequence that I guess was the first
thing that he walked in on. Yeah, the first time
you saw it, Just it seems longer. I timed it out.
It's only six minutes, but I remember being in the
theater and literally I think it was the first time
I had ever hurt from laughing so consistently for so long.

(01:03:14):
I never laughed harder longer, I don't think in my
life up until that point. Yeah, I would agree. The
only thing I can think of ever seeing that Rivals
that is, Um, there was that Tarantino thing, the four
rooms and Rodriguez at a room and yeah yeah, uh
Rodriguez's room. Uh. If you remember, it's I think, no misbehaving. Yeah,

(01:03:38):
little kids get left in the hotel room behind like
a dead hooker under the bed with a syringe heart.
I remember laughing. So I was with my brother and
we were both laughing so hard that we we had
we were screaming at this point. And then my only
thing I could do is I just stood up and
I sat down. I stood up to him. I didn't
know what I was doing, but I couldn't let enough

(01:03:58):
out by just laughing. I found myself standing and my
brother was also standing in city like we couldn't contain
what was happening. That's great, your body just had to move. Yeah.
But again, like um Todd Phillips's take, I heard a
great interview with him, and he was talking about in
his in his mind, you can't have comedy without danger.

(01:04:19):
That's just his own point of view on comedy. And
that's why I think that Rodriguez Room saying to me
so much. It's just like these two cute little kids
in the worst scenario possible. There's just all this inherent danger.
And this movie too, raising Arizona's got like a lot
of danger. There's steaks, jail time. You actually love these
two as a couple, Yeah, yeah, and that constant threat

(01:04:40):
just elevates everything. Yeah, I think the I mean in
that sequence alone, the robbery sequence when he finally, you know,
goes back to the dark side or whatever. I think
they're I lost count. There's like probably a hundred or
more gunshots, and the cops, you know, they're in the
grocery store, just randomly firing down the aisles. It's just

(01:05:00):
he's unloading everywhere in public places, and it just keeps
ramping up, it keeps building. Uh Like there's dogs, fifteen
dogs at one point, and a dog point of view exactly.
And then finally, the the funniest part of that whole
thing still to me and I laughed the other day
when I watched it like it was the first time,

(01:05:21):
is when he gets in the truck with the old
guy you got a penny on your head. But when
he jams on the brakes and he goes flying through
the windows, already shot out, flying through the front of
the truck, lands in the grass and like in his fingers,
and then he gets up and says, thank you. I
have thought so many times about how they actually shot

(01:05:43):
that scene, what the mechanics of that scene were. That
it looks great. Gave me that visceral feeling that I
flew through a window like, it's just they did it perfect. Yeah,
I think part of it had to do with the
sound design, because it's so loud, and then as soon
as he flies through the window, you just hear like
a just like this dead quiet sort of wind rushing. Yes,

(01:06:04):
but in my mind I can see him absolutely leaving
the truck, going through the whole window and landing. Of
course that I couldn't have seen that. That can't be
really shot, yeah, but I guess now would be done digitally.
But yeah, of course, such an incredible job of with
their point of view shots and everything to make you
feel like you watched you saw that well and so
many real people. That also also mark sort of the

(01:06:26):
beginning of the Cohen's use of non actors, which they're
very famous for now in the little small roles like um.
Another line that just always killed me was the old timer,
um circular is funny? Yeah? Do these flow up into
funny shapes at all? No? And let's around his and

(01:06:46):
that line is a perfectly written joke. Well, which is it,
young failer? If I free? If I drop that guy too,
like these are not? Maybe that guy was. There was
the point in my life where I knew these actually
verbe disappointed in myself, right, now that I've forgotten. No,
I mean, I'm sure if you sat down like you

(01:07:07):
and I could probably recite them. I mean, it's just
such a good line. And and just that Cohen brothers
um that thing of going into a bank, everybody freeze,
everybody dropped, and like instead of just playing it straight
like they had this whole other layer of comedy. Yes,
and it just if I drop, I'm gonna be in motion. Well,

(01:07:32):
and then and then you know, where'd all the tellers
go like we're down here like you commanded him to drop? Uh?
And then we get to Randall Cobb is sort of
peppered through, and finally that sort of third act is
when he comes in as Randall text Cob. Yeah, who
was Some people don't know this about him, but he

(01:07:53):
was a prize fighter. Yeah, he was a boxer. He
was a boxer. And when he was most known for
is he's kind of the guy they'd hired to build
another rising star career. But because he wouldn't go down, right,
he never won. But he did an iron chin. Yes,
And I remember watching a little one hour thing about
him and they were saying sometimes the fights like he
would sleep in the lawn next to the sign of

(01:08:16):
the arena he was fighting in, Like, Yeah, he was
just a real rag tag. Yeah, they'd have to like
go find him, and that's a weird thing to do. Yeah.
I can't imagine you're in your best fighting shape after
you've slept on the wall of the lawn of MGM Graham.
But I mean, I think he went very famously. I
think he went twelve rounds with Larry Holmes at one
point earlier in his career. Yeah, and it was just

(01:08:38):
known as a guy who could take any amount of
punches through his way. Yeah. Very scary dude. Great casting. Yeah,
and I think the Cohen Brothers did not enjoy working
with him. Yeah, that's the thing the other day that
said it was from back then, but they said, yeah,
I don't know if you know he's going to be
on the call sheet anymore moving forward. I wonder if

(01:08:58):
drinking was involved with I don't know, So what's your taking. Yeah,
there are a lot of interpretations of that of who
he is in this movie, whether or not he is
a representation of the other side of Nick Cage's character,
or whether or not he is his father because they

(01:09:18):
have the same tattoo that is weird. Yeah, that's the
thing I guess that makes it worth exploring. But you know,
in general, I don't believe people know why they make
the choices they make. I wish I did. Yeah, like
you know, Bob Dylan, I think admitted you know, or
maybe even John Bias said she'd read these lines of

(01:09:42):
his and go, oh my god, this most beautiful thing
ever be writing a song. What does it mean? I
don't know. So maybe they know. I don't know they know. Yeah,
I don't think their own record like it. Maybe, like
does Tarantino really know what's in that soup suitcase? He
says he does? Does he? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know.
A good point. So I don't know when I when.
I don't think that the real answers out there. I

(01:10:02):
don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Yeah,
is that a letdown? No, not that character represents I
think I thought about it more when I was younger
and watching this movie a lot, and I thought they
were brothers that had been split apart at birth or something.
But the age, does it would be more likely that
he's his father. Yeah, By the way, it blows my mind.

(01:10:25):
You say he was twenty three during that because in
my mind, he's like thirty five yeah, you know, yeah,
for sure. I always just took that moment where he
pulls his collar to the side and he sees that
tattoo that it was just, um, a humanizing moment, Like
I didn't think of it anything as more than just
like in this crazy, gnarly impossible scenario, he just witnesses

(01:10:51):
something that makes him realize like, oh, we're not too different.
We're both you know, like this is this weirdly humanizing
moment and it's crazy the sequence which defies all explanation. Uh.
And he says he's sorry after he pulls the pin
right right, because because they both clearly love what he
would Pecker yeah, yeah, yeah, and he I think it's

(01:11:13):
just weird. I just thought of it as like a
weird moment to recognize, Uh, somebody who's trying to murder
you has the same favorite thing as you. That's just
I can see myself writing it just being pumped on
that and maybe it not being any deeper than that,
Like you know what if a guy was strangling me
and the last thing he says is like, no, not

(01:11:33):
that mother scratcher, Bill Park, Oh that's weird the same
favorite movie I normally maybe along with this guy. Oh yeah,
the great m M and Wall. So I'm glad you
mentioned that. One of the great legendary character actors. Yes,
and their ability to like just keep paying things off,

(01:11:54):
you know, every time they go to that machine shop.
He's saying another crazy thing. He's walking back off nine
Mile with a sandwich in one hand and a fucking
head and the other Like, what story is he telling him? Yeah? Yeah,
I love them, just dropping in on conversations in the
middle of them. It's great, and he was great and
Blood Simple he has. It's one of the best last

(01:12:16):
lines of a movie ever to me. At the end
of Blood Simple, what is he saying? It's um? You know.
It ends with he's on the other side of the
door and get shot and so you don't see they
don't know who has been shot, and he thinks it's
it's the other guy. Um. The I can only think
him as Nick Boncani from Cheers, Uh Dan, what's his

(01:12:37):
face from Flueless Too? You're finding my big weakness. Remember
remember my own name. But he says something about and
he calls out the guy's name and says something to
him and in fact, it's mm at Walsh and he goes,
if I see him, I'll give him the message. Then
he slumps on the floor and dies, and that's the
end of the movie. Yeah, which is just a great
last line. Yeah. I'd be curious of those guys when

(01:12:59):
they write Joel Nathan if they take ownership of one
of the characters, like, oh, interesting, I feel like that'd
be a fun way to write. I don't enjoy writing
with other people, but if it seems like if you
were that simpatico with your everything like they, that you
could enter writing these scenes going I'll be I'll be

(01:13:20):
you know, I'll be that character, you be Nick Cage,
I'll focus on that voice, and every time we go
to him, I'll do that, you know, So you kind
of have like a real time dialogue if you both
owned one of the two characters. I think they kind of.
I've heard stories about them directing that they sort of
divide and conquered that way. Yes, I've auditioned for them

(01:13:41):
for what uh for the Caesar how Caesar Um, which
I was so scared to do because the character was
Swedish uh, and I had never done a Swedish accent
or anything. So I like went on YouTube and learned
one that's got to be intimidating. Yeah, at first I
just read for the casting director and then I'm assuming
I did bad. It's a big swing Swedish accent. I

(01:14:03):
don't know how I did. And then I get called
back and I had auditioned for them Joel and Ethan,
and uh, you know, as I'm preparing to go in there,
I'm I'm just going, do not bring up raising Arizona.
They already know it's a good movie. You do not
have to do that. And I don't think they're like that.
I don't think they're they like talking a lot about

(01:14:25):
that stuff from what I've heard, Yeah, I I think
they would find it to be self indulgent or you know, like, yeah,
they didn't strike me as the kind that needed my
approval whatever. So I'm just going, don't do that, don't
try to tell them, don't try to show them you're funny,
you know, all these different things. And then on accident,
I said something funny, just got out of nervousness, like

(01:14:47):
while talking to them, and then one of them said,
and they laughed at you. They laughed and one of
them said, well, you clearly know comedy, and I was like,
is that good or bad? Like I can see that
going either way. Anyways, I auditioned for them. I left,
I felt pretty good, and then I didn't hear anything
for a long time, and then I got called back

(01:15:07):
to read for them again, and now I had new sides.
They sent out new new material for the audition. I'm like, oh,
that's interesting. I got there and by the way, I
don't know which one of them is the one that speaks,
but basically one of them speaks. It deals with the actor.
So he was talking to me and he said, he said,
we brought you back because after your first audition, we

(01:15:29):
realized that scene wasn't as funny as it should be
because you know comedy and it should have been funnier,
and so thank you for pointing that out. We rewrote it,
and I said, thank you. Well, my acting tends to
be a magnifying glass for bad writing, so I'm glad
I could assist. And then I read again and that
went fine. And then they hired someone much bigger than me,

(01:15:51):
which fine. It was such a I don't even know.
I saw that Channing Tatum was the guy who was
he was directing. The Swedish guy was directing. Oh they
hired a real Swedish guys. Okay, I don't know. Yeah, regardless,
that was pumped that they called me back twice. That's
a big victory. Yeah. And then in fact, the other

(01:16:13):
day I was thinking, because I have this, you know,
I have occasionally have low self esteem, and I'm like,
if I had been in that movie, that movie didn't
do so hot financially, I would have actually thought it
was my friend. I would have said, like, God, you
even have the ability to like take movies. So it's
almost like grateful that I couldn't put that in the
I hate myself filing cabinets and drawing. That's funny. Um.

(01:16:38):
So the movie Raising Arizona ends with that great extended
voiceover sequence, that dream sequence where he looks into the
future he sees himself his sons are football players, right, Yeah,
and uh ends with that great line. I don't know,
maybe it was Utah, but just just such a funny
Cohen Brothers e way to end a movie. Yeah, it's

(01:17:00):
so great, But we skipped over one scene that I
also think is just outrageously which one when John Goodman, Uh,
and you just said his name and you know, Foresight,
Sorry about that, Yeah, William Foresy William Foresight. When they
forgot the baby on the roof of the car and

(01:17:20):
they're punching, like John Goodman's punching the dashboard and they're screaming.
I don't think I'd ever seen a scene like that either.
I just could not stop laughing. I have to say,
if I have a single favorite moment in all Coen
Brothers movies that made me laugh, the very hardest is
when I'm in in Um Dude big Lebowski when they're

(01:17:45):
driving down the road and Goodman jumps out of the
car out of nowhere and he starts and he's rolling
and he's got a machine gun. It just starts firing
by accident. I oh my god, I mean, what a moment.
You don't see him magazining the car like you're seeing
that coming, and then you're not even thinking about the bag.
The guys holding a machine just started firing randomly. Again,

(01:18:06):
it's that danger or anything like a gun just going
out off without anyone's permission is so funny to make. Yeah,
they're twisted guys. Uh And my my friend worked on
UM maybe it was Hail Caesar. He worked on one
of the more recent ones, and he said, they're just
very serious guys on set. And I was like, what
was it, Like, was it the best? And he was like,

(01:18:28):
it was kind of a bummer because they're just really
they're not super talkative. They sort of eat lunch by themselves,
and I think they're so in their little bubble. Yeah,
which is you know, that's an artist at work. Yeah,
I'm sure you have to be to create that world
and stay in it. And because what I don't I
don't know if people who have never made a movie
or not acting in movies. You know, the single hardest

(01:18:49):
thing to achieve for most directors is a consistent tone
because real life is happening. So day one you're shooting,
don't know most of the people you're working with, right,
and people have your nervous everyone's the actors are nervous,
the director's nervous, the studios nervous, and then it finds
this rhythm in the middle, right, and then towards the end,

(01:19:10):
now now, now real life also saying like this is
gonna be over soon. I'm gonna miss these people. So
all this stuff is happening, you're developing, all the relationships
are all evolving really quickly. So it's very hard to
shoot the last scene in your movie and have it
have the same tone as the first scene in your movie.
And the thing that the Calin brothers are the very,

(01:19:32):
very best at is that their their movies have this
consistent tone no matter how crazy they get, whether it's
an action sequence or a sweet scene or this or that.
They're just the masters of tone. And I have to
imagine they have to police each other on that or
just stay really focused on what that tone is. As
a director, do you want to um when you finish

(01:19:52):
your movie or you ever like I'm in I wish
I could go back and shoot that first week again
because now we're at like we're humming, we're all cruising together.
I haven't had that experience. What I usually what I've had,
I keep learning over and over again. I'll probably never
figure it out. Is um. I feel like the tone
thing comes easy to me because I'm an actor that

(01:20:14):
has a certain tone. So I just I've I've also
written the script, so I said it in my voice,
and I feel like I know how I would play
each of the characters before I start shooting. And it's
just because I'm the tone, you know, it makes it
easier for me. Like when I'm watching the performance, I'm like,
that's not how I would want to see it, or
that's not how I would deliver it. It just makes

(01:20:35):
my more It's clear for me. What I do NonStop
is I over write the first act so much, and
then I deal with it for the next six months,
Like I shoot it as written, and then in editing,
I have to get it tighter, entire tighter, entire tire tighter,
and it's just so hard, and I just keep making
the same mistake. That's interesting because usually, or traditionally in

(01:20:58):
the second act is most people have problems with their
their endings. Endings are real bad, you know. That seems
to be where most people stumble. But I really stumble
in the first act. Yeah, I want to tell too
much story. I just have a hard time getting out
of the gates. I usually when I'm writing a script,
when I hit that halfway point, I'm off to the

(01:21:21):
racist Like then it's just it's a it's a blast.
I know exactly where it's ending, and I know and
I know I'm running out of space, and I know
I like pages is approaching quickly, so I just get
way more economical with my writing, and the pace just
picks up and I can barely fit in what I
know needs to fit. And there's something about just starting
with a blank piece of paper now when you have

(01:21:43):
some wiggle room with HUNTERD twenty pages, not to go
down the rabbit hole of writing, but do you um,
kind of hammer it out and then go back and
do rewrite it, or do you rewrite kind of every
day as you go. Yeah, And this kind of ends

(01:22:04):
up being my singular tip I have if whenever people
A few people have asked me for writing advice. Um,
my trick is, I give myself permission to write something terrible.
So I go sit down, write eight pages. It can suck,
It's all right, it's all right to suck. It doesn't
have to be good. The only person who's seeing it

(01:22:24):
is you. Yeah, And then tomorrow I'll start my writing
day by rereading the eight pages I wrote the day before,
and then I will refine those and I'll make them better.
By the way, if you're a good writer, you're a
good writer. You're not going to write something shitty it's
just the barrier of thinking, funk, I got to write
a perfect scene. It's got to perfectly fit into this
jigsaw puzzle that can get overwhelming for me and daunting.

(01:22:45):
And that's that's actually what prevents me for wanting to write,
is just the expectation of it being great. So once
I give myself permission to write something terrible, like just
puke out these three scenes. You know it's going to
be setting a bowling ally, then you know you're going
to a corn field, and then you can end up wherever.
Just at least get that down the architecture of it,
and then you can work on the dialogue and everything later.

(01:23:07):
So yeah, I'm a big What I like to do
is I go away for like week bursts or ten
day burse Uh. It's much harder now that I have
two kids, but my wife's generally helpful, and this now
it's like four day burse But every day I gotta
write eight pages and then I'm just in a cycle
of rereading them, rewriting them. Then then that juice is
flowing and throughout the week it gets easier and easier.

(01:23:28):
And that's kind of my approach. Are you. I'm not
someone that could sit down and write two pages a
day for six months. How my brain works. Is Kristen
a sounding board for you as you go? Or do
you kind of say here it is at the end.
Let me know what you think. I generally say here
it is at the end, unless I've written a scene
I think is so funny that I'm excited about and

(01:23:50):
I might want to you know that's nice. Yeah, Like
I had this crazy scene and hit and run about
finding out Bradley Cooper's character had been raped in al
and I'm trying to comfort him, but my approach to
comforting him just gets more and more racist and more
and more inappropriate, and I'm just that deeper and deeper
hole and he's getting more and more offended. And when

(01:24:11):
I wrote that, I just thought I just felt good, Like,
oh my god, I found the line. I feel like
I walked it for like six minutes of arguing where
it's like it's obvious enough that I'm trying my hardest
to comfort him and that's why I'm being such it,
you know, insensitive idiot. All right, Well, we finish up
here with a couple of quick segments. What Ebert said

(01:24:32):
in five questions, do you have time. Absolutely, what is
the what is the What's Ebert said? I just read
a little bit from his review because almost curious, and
this is one of the rare ones where Roger Ebert
didn't get it. He got it wrong. He got it wrong,
one and a half stars. She really didn't like this movie.
By the way, what could be Oh my god, thank you?

(01:24:53):
What could be more comforting to know if you've ever
had a movie reviewed that Raising Arizona got one and
a half stars. That's just fantastic. Yeah, for real, So
he says. One of the problems with Raising Arizona. The
movie is narrated by its hero, a man who specializes
in robbing convenience stores, but it sounds as as he
has just graduated from the Rooster Cogburn school of Uh.

(01:25:14):
I don't even know this word elocution. Uh. Since the
basic idea of the movie is a good one, and
they're talented people in the cast, what we have as
a film shut down by its own forced, a mannered style.
The movie cannot decide if it exists in the real
world of trailer parks and seven elevens or in a
fantasy world of characters from another dimension. Cannot decide if
it's about real people or comic exaggerations. It moves so

(01:25:37):
uneasily from one level of reality to another that we're
finally just baffled. So I read that and I think,
so good. You just didn't get it. Yeah, because it
was all those things on purpose, yes, intentionally and perfectly executed.
And you're right, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. Yeah,
and then they created a genre, their own paradigm, and yeah,

(01:25:58):
for sure, so and sometimes that he would even because
certainly now he'd admit that was wrong. He has done
that in years later and said, hey, it turns out
I got this wrong. Yeah, that's cool. But I bet
not only has he admitted he got it wrong, but
I bet he's actually judged subsequent Coen Brothers movies against
that movie, a perfect template of the you know, because

(01:26:21):
it's weird that that's I think that's still their best
movie for me. I mean, I'm a ton of the
Miller's Crossing is up there for me, and of course
far Ago, but I like them all. Yeah I did too.
You know what, when I absolutely love that everyone hates
his intolerable cruelty. I love that movie, the dialogue, and
that is as on points as raising Arizona. Yeah, I

(01:26:42):
mean Cedric the entertainer goes the dogs had a taste Africanus.
I was when I got hit with that line aus
Africanus so great or Billy Bob Thornton eating the tearing
up the pre nup and eating it just keeps going old.
This woman, this woman. I think that and burn after

(01:27:04):
reading are both way underrated. Yeah, I thought burn after
reading this group now burn after reading I didn't love
really Yeah, my kind of complaint. When I was leaving
the I went with Kristen. We saw it, and we
were leaving the this theater right here, arc like or
in the carm like do you like it? And she goes, oh,
I loved it? I really, who are you rooting for?
And I was like what, I Well, I think that's

(01:27:26):
relevant is that, no matter how gifted you are, if
you break those rules of poetics Aristotle, if you don't
want your hero to achieve something, you can't even wit
your way out of it. For me, I was just like, wait,
so one woman's motivation is to get a boob job?
Would really want her to achieve that goal? Fairlypid? Yeah?

(01:27:47):
And they just all have goals you really kind of
don't want them to achieve. And I just found myself
going like, I just don't know who the hero of
this movie is. I don't I'm not emotionally dying for
something good to happen to one of them, but knowing
the Cohens were like, hey, let's make a movie where
you can't root for anyone, you know. Yeah, I'm sure
it was intentional. I don't think they accidentally, you know,

(01:28:08):
forgot to. They've done plenty of movies like wait a minute,
Protagonists and goals. All right, And we finished up with
five questions. First movie you remember seeing in the theater? Yes,
so I said it when we started. I think the
first thing I remember is is Conan the Barbarian at
the at the drive in? Yeah? Well that are that?
Are that our scarface? Well? That answers the second question.

(01:28:31):
Then first are rated movie? Those are both rated pretty hard?
I started, are I don't think I've seen a PG movie,
so I was let me change that first PG movie Frozen? Nice? Uh?
Number three, we walk out of a bad movie. I
never used to ever, because I do just enjoy sitting

(01:28:53):
in that theater enough that I'll just stay a couple
of hours of quiet. But as I've gotten older and
I have less time, and there's places, there's things I
could be doing, I'm more and more I'll walk out
of a movie. You know that comes with age a
little bit. Yeah, started thinking about time spent, time spent,
and then also I think the more and more I

(01:29:14):
know about the construction of a movie, if if I
can just see where it's going, it's just gonna get
progressively worse and eat itself even more, I'll just go
I don't want to witness this, or like I'll walk
out of some superhero movies because it's like they already
got bored with the second act fight scenes, so I
know the third act fight scenes going to be twice

(01:29:34):
as long as the one that just bored Right, I
just can't do it. I I can't see another computer
game fight. Yeah, that seems to be what I have
the least amount of tolerance for, is like just heavy
c g I stuff. I just feel like, um, and
this is why I've never done c g I stunts.
It's like it doesn't matter how good the algorithm gets.

(01:29:54):
There's something about they can't master the physics of how
things are supposed to move through spe as, how they're
supposed to fly, how they're supposed to be packed each other,
And I just can't ever emotionally buy in. Yeah, I
mean Summer granted, there's an amazing CGI that has gotten me,
but just to see a whole fight sequence that that
has been computer generated, I I just bail out emotionally. Well,

(01:30:15):
even just like you said the a scene where a
car falls on the ground from a jump in c G,
I like, you can't fake something in three dimensions, having
a like physics is at play. You can physics, You
really can't. I mean maybe at some point that I
gotta say. When I saw a Jungle Book, that was
maybe the first time where I was like, yeah, oh

(01:30:37):
this is almost here for me. I'm pretty in. I
just named that is my favorite use of c G.
I actually, yeah, it looked really really good. It couldn't
have been done better. Yeah yeah, it's really impressive. But
you have to know the limits, you know, Well I had,
you can't do anything. I did a Favre movie. I
love that movie. Yeah it's so good. Uh, probably the

(01:30:59):
best movie I've ever act. They didn't, but um so
I'm friends with him and I saw a Jungle book,
and I asked him afterwards. I'm like, I don't know
what I saw, Like I I don't know enough about
movies to know what you did, Like what did you?
How on earth did that happen? And he's like, well,
you make that movie three times. You do a line

(01:31:20):
sketch version of the movie with crew drawings, and then
there's a round of notes and there's input, and then
you go into am like a computer layout version of it, Like, uh,
what do they call it? Pro? Uh? Rez, it doesn't matter.
They do a crappy digital version, then they do a
really high end digital pass, and then you start filming

(01:31:43):
with actors in the screen screen space. So he's like,
you know, ultimately I made that movie four times, but
oh yeah, incredible. Good for him. Uh number four. I
tried to tailor to the guests. So I'm gonna say,
for Deck Shepherd, what is your favorite all time car
from a movie? I think we should limit it too

(01:32:06):
from a movie? And I gotta go with the seventy
seven trans and from pretty hard to not do that. Yeah, yeah,
that's pretty spectacular. Are you gonna own one of those
one day? It's so funny that I haven't owned one
of them have a lot of cars, and I collected cars,
and ah, there were such pieces of ship like if

(01:32:28):
you actually know about cars, kind of heard that. Yeah,
they had like even the so the one he end
the car in the movie was a six point six leaders,
so like a four hundred cubic inch V eight And
I think that car made a hundred eighty horse power
and a Ford Focus today makes like two fifty horse
power from a four cylinder. So they just they wouldn't
even spin the tires. I mean, they're just terrible, uh cars.

(01:32:51):
So I know that I would be getting one and
having to put who new engine, new trans new suspension,
brakes were terrible, blah blah blah. And I just haven't
been able to bite that off yet, but I do
feel like I will before I die, put on a
cowboy hat and a big smoky barn out out of
my driveway with my daughters in the car, and they'll
be so embarrassed and don't know why I'm doing what

(01:33:11):
I'm doing. Oh I love it. Uh. And then finally
movie going one on one? What is your what is
your ritual for the movie theater? Well, I'm a bit
of this drives my wife insane. Ideally, I want to
be there fifteen minutes beforehand because I want to buy snacks.
I'm so into the snacks, popcorn, just one conservative, one

(01:33:36):
squired of butter in the middle, one squired of butter
on top. And I like to get a hot dog,
and then I like to get a big diet coke.
And then I like to look at all the posters
in the lobby. I want to look at every one
of them. I really study them, not just you know,
walk by them. I want to stand in front of
each one for a minute or two. And then I

(01:33:56):
want to sit down, and I want to start getting
amped up for the movie, like I want to start
getting pumped about it. I think this is going to happen,
you know, I'm really whipping myself into a ladder. And
then um and then and then then I love the previews.
I love getting excited after each one and all we
got to see that one that's so great, And then
I'm My whole goal is to not finish my hot

(01:34:18):
dog and popcorn before the credits finished, really, which I'm
rarely good at. Usually by the time those credits end
at the beginning, I'm out of the opening credits. Yes,
the opening no no, no, no. My goal is to
get to the opening credits, get some food, like still
be eating while those are going on, which is very

(01:34:39):
hard for me to do the same here on those
trailers start going, I just nervously munching. Awesome. Yeah, thanks
so much for having me chok. So glad I rewrote
that that tweet. Yeah, that's so weird. That couldn't have
been anywhere. All right, thanks very on brand for me.
Appreciate it. Yeah, see you next line. All right, everybody.

(01:35:09):
That was a lot of fun. Uh. Dak Shephard was
a super nice guy and I'm glad to have met him.
It was very kind of him to make some time
and come over here on a busy day and talk
movies and life and writing and directing. And it was
very funny to get that story about the twitter uh
miscommunication from years ago, and we laughed about that afterward.

(01:35:31):
I remember that tweet coming in and we were excited.
So I'm gonna try and do some Google research and
see what Josh wrote as well and how he may
have misinterpreted that. That's kind of funny because we've always
been big fans of both he and his wife, So
it was a lot of fun. It was fun to
talk raising Arizona and we both clearly have a big
love for that movie, and um, it was just a
lot of fun to talk to him. Very very good dude,

(01:35:52):
So we wish him all the best luck moving forward
in his career. Uh and with Armchair Expert. I told
him afterward if there's anything ever needs, of course, is
from one podcaster now to another that he can count
on us for sure to help promote it. But it's
doing great, so give that a listen, and I recommend
starting with the episode with his wife, very uh, illuminating

(01:36:14):
conversation about life and marriage and just sort of the
struggles of of real life. It's really good. So thanks
to Dax for coming in. You can find him on
Twitter at Dax Shepherd d A X s H E
p A R D on Twitter, And thanks for tuning in.
And until next time, go out and buy that trans

(01:36:35):
am burn rubber around the neighborhood, why don't you. Movie
Crush is produced, engineered, edited, and soundtracked by Noel Brown
and Ramsey Hunt at how Stuff Work Studios, Pot City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dax Shepard on Raising Arizona