Flophouse Special! Dan McCoy on Aliens

The first in a series of Flophouse specials! First up is flopper and Daily Show writer Dan McCoy on Aliens.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio

(00:29):
Earls W Chuck Bryant here in the basement for the
first of what will be a three part series with
the Guys from the Flophouse, the Great Great Bad Movie
podcast from the Max Fun Network, and my buddy Jesse Thorne.
And Uh, I was, I don't know why I haven't
done this yet because I know the guys and the

(00:49):
flop House is one of my favorite shows, and I'm
glad it worked out that I could get all these
three in a row. So at first we have Dan McCoy. Uh.
Dan is a great dude. He works as a writer
for The Daily Show, one of my all time favorite
shows on television and favorite comedy shows especially on television.
And Dan is a good dude. We met at Max
von con Um four or five years ago and hung

(01:13):
out there all weekend with with Stewart as well. Elliott
wasn't at that one, so I had not met him
at that point. But Dan is a very nice guy,
very funny, a big time film fan, uh and cinephile
like his knowledge is is dare I say Casey esque
as far as the movies he's seen in the movies

(01:33):
he movies. He knows, he's extremely well read, a very
smart guy, and just always a good conversationalist, and I
was glad to get him in here to talk about
his pick Aliens, the nineties six classic from director and
writer James Cameron. So strapping everybody, here we are with
Dan McCoy on Aliens. Uh, your hair a lot sure

(02:00):
than it used to be. No, unless I saw you
in one of my weird grow out my hair a
little bit periods that you were clearly in right now,
my beards a lot shorter. It's a that's it. That's it. Uh, well,
you know it's it's quarantine hair. There's not a lot
I can do about it. I've asked Audrey Weather she

(02:20):
would cut it, and she seems very dubious about that idea.
Oh man, that's funny. Usually a significant other who cannot
cut hair leaps at the chance to cut hair. You know.
I think she's she knows how difficult I am, and
it's worried that she will disappoint me in some way,
But I do not care right now. I just want

(02:40):
it gone. Yeah. I think there's two versions of quarantine hair.
There's that or the shaved head, which is what I had. Uh,
you know, five rics ago, so this is five weeks in. Well,
I both have a large lump on my head and
hair that does not take well to being that short.

(03:01):
So you got a lump. I gotta go with this. Yeah,
it's like a mole. Yeah, yeah, like it's but it
is one of those that like grows year by year
and I'm thankful that it's hidden by hair. Yeah, my
friend had one of those. You just said it removed.
You can do that, you know. Yeah, I've thought about it.
What are you drinking? Dan? I made myself a hurricane.

(03:24):
That was why I was a little late. I'm sorry.
I lost track of time. And then I was like, oh,
I was gonna get us cocktails, and uh so what's
in a hurricane? Uh it's who dark rum, light rum,
orange orange juice, passion fruit grenadine, some lime, and a

(03:47):
little simple syrup. Although I was so pressed for time,
I just sort of, uh tossle sugar in there, and
I'm just trust Yeah, I am drinking a giant gin
and tonic because it's it's Gin and Tonics season for me.
Mm hmm. I've just left martini season and red wine
season sort of straddles that I kind of always drink

(04:09):
red wine, but it's also not the best summertime thing. Yeah,
I mean I there was a time where, like I
liked whiskey so much, I would just drink it year
round on on ice so it didn't kind of matter.
But yeah, I find myself these days being drawn to
something that feels a little lighter in the summer. Although

(04:33):
this has a bunch of fruit in its so who
knows how light it is really So Dan, we've hung
out before on a few occasions at maximun Con. It
is like three nights of a great time in the
in the John Hodgeman cabin. Uh, it's it's you know,
I've had many hangs there over many years. In the
year that flop House was there was one of the

(04:54):
best as far as that Hank goes. That was super
fun and I it was like my first peek inside.
Like there's such a small level of fame and celebrity
that comes with podcasting, but it was my first like
peek inside, like the idea that I was hanging out
with the cool kids to some degree, and again, it's podcasting,

(05:17):
so cool is graded on a really big curve. But
you know I was there and and I think it
was I don't I don't know whether it was Travis
who was there, Jordan, or like it was one of
them who was like, Hey, come on, We're gonna go
to Hodgeman's cabin. And I mean, I don't know if
I've said this out loud on my podcast, but um,

(05:38):
I have desperately craved Hodgment's approval for years because because
you know, I mean, he he worked at the Daily
Show when I was, I was there with John. I
mean I'm still there, but like when obviously when John hosted,
Hodgeman was one of the correspondents occasionally, and before that
I had known of him through of this American life

(06:02):
and known that he was Bruce Campbell's literary agent, among
other he was a literary agent for like he's done
all these things and then somehow parlated into being in
addition to an author, like an actor and a sort
of a comic performer. And I don't know, I just

(06:22):
he seemed so interesting and I admired him. And I
think Hodgeman also encourages um, uh the desire to uh
please him by withholding it so much his approval. So
so I was very excited to go and hang out
and then meet you through that as well. Yeah, that's interesting.

(06:44):
Uh um. And then you were kind enough to come
to one of the Stuff you should Know shows at
the Bell House last year, which was very cool of
you to do. I know, you guys performed at the
Bellhouse a lot one of your home venues, kind of
like us. Yeah, I mean certainly when Elliott still lived

(07:04):
in New York, Um, less so now, but we try
and working in there, so nice there. Yeah, they're the best.
How has that been with Elliott gone? I mean I
haven't really noticed, um, because you know I've told you
via text and you've kind of reciprocated that we both
go to each other's podcast as a bit of comfort food. Um.
And you know I took a break and now had

(07:25):
this backlog of flophouses that I've been kind of barreling
through the last few weeks to ease my anxieties. But
how's it been. I haven't noticed any difference with you
guys kind of separated. Now, Well, that's good. I do
think that the first month or two was kind of rough,
and I'm not really sure. I think one of the

(07:46):
things that helped us is, like a boring equipment thing
where we both started recording into um the same kind
of digital recorder rather than the computer, and that helped
a lot somehow. But but also at the same time
we got an added her like I am not you know,
I started the podcast, but that doesn't mean I know
anything about podcasting, and I only ever learned enough to

(08:10):
kind of do the job that I needed to do.
Whereas now Jordan Cowling, who actually does uh was the
producer for Ipotius that Elliott and Hodgeman did together, is
our editor and our sound person, you know, really a
second producer on the show. And when did that start? Uh,

(08:34):
like shortly before the new year, maybe like November December
last year. It's hard to I I just think of
it as starting at the time that I was burned
out of being our own producer years or whatever. Twelve years. Yeah,
it really gave me a new lease on life when
it came to podcasting. Man. Uh. Yeah, that it was

(08:58):
nice to hand those reins over what um. Stewart and
I talked a little bit about this, but I didn't
want to, you know, I promise you that you would
be the teller of the flop story. Uh, and I'd
love to know how it all came about. I had
no idea that you guys have been around that long. Yeah.
Uh well, I think that one of the few one
of the reasons we're successful is we got in when

(09:20):
there was very little competition, and don't I know it, brother,
we could build an audience because, like people ask me
now about being successful and podcasting, I'm like, I, um,
the time machine, Like I that's what I say. It's
it's too big now, you know it's they've got real
money behind unless. Um. But back in the day, it

(09:42):
was because I was struggling to do comedy. I didn't
have a TV writing job at the time. I was
just doing whatever comedy I could on the side and um.
And also I was hanging out with Stewart, who went
to my same college. He um. He and I didn't
really hang out at college. We had some very close

(10:04):
mutual friends. But then when I came to New York,
he was already here and so we I was like, Okay, well,
this is an instant friend, especially because he liked watching
dumb movies and so we would watch dumb movies together
and I thought he was very funny. And I'm like Okay, well,
here's a couple of different things they're going on at
the same time. I want to get into comedy. He's

(10:28):
very funny. We both watched like watching dumb movies. I've
started to listen to podcast. Uh. Jordan jesse Go was
like one of the very first I listened to. So
it's interesting that now we're on the Maximum Fun Network
under Jesse's leadership. But um, but yeah, I was like, Okay, well,
this is a new thing that's starting out, and I

(10:49):
think it is an easy way to get an audience,
whether I mean whether or not people are gonna listen.
It's a way to get access to people that I
might not have otherwise. And I thought, this is one
of the first times in my life I was prescient
about anything, or only times when I was like, okay,
like this could be a thing and I should get

(11:10):
in now while it's early. And uh. And I got
Stewart and another guy who was Stewart's friend, Simon, who
then had to go back to Indiana about seven episodes
and he moved away, which you know, like, you know,
God bless him. He was. He's a very nice man.

(11:31):
But it was very good that Elliott came in shortly thereafter,
because I don't know, like by happenstance. I feel like
we fell into classic comedy roles where Stewart's like the
laid back one and Elliott is like the motor mouth
jokester and I'm the exasperated guy totally. So it's such

(11:57):
a fun dynamic though. I mean, that's what that's what
I love about the show. I mean, I rarely see
the movies that you guys talk about, and doesn't matter
because the dynamic that the three of you have together,
you know, like at least one or two times during
every episode, I go, oh, poor Dan, because you know
it's stuff. Elliot's a force of nature, and um, you

(12:20):
can tell that. I was talking to Stewart about this,
like you finally lost it a few weeks ago. I'm
sure you've done that more than once. But when you
finally just yelled and shut the funk up again, I
say one thing, and the two of them like it
would it would not be a good show if that
made it weird, or if they got their feelings hurt.
But they were totally just like yeah, whatever, man, and

(12:41):
just kind of kept going. And that's what makes the
show special. I think no, and we're we are close
enough that I can lose that patients. I mean it's
it's it's Uh, it helps that they've known me long
enough to know that I get mad, but for very
short periods of time you don't regret anything. Yeah, I
mean it is a little I had that you asked

(13:02):
about Elliott being gone. I guess the one thing that
is kind of bad, and it's been amplified by the quarantine,
is we are very close friends at this point. Like
it's weird for adults to say best friends, but they're
probably my two best friends. But uh, nowadays we mostly

(13:23):
talk business like we only like get together when we're
doing the podcast. Uh, it's very easy to fall off
without that, like whereas if Elliott was in town, maybe
would hang out together as friends. And so it is
I think a little easier for us to get annoyed, sure,
because we're business partners, but but mostly not totally. Um,

(13:44):
what was your childhood, Like where did you grow up?
Did you say Illinois or Indiana? Illinois? I went to
school in Illana, Indiana for college, but I grew up
in a small town called Eureka, Illinois, which, um, it's
got like five thousands some people who live there now,
but it was even smaller when I grew up, Like

(14:06):
I think the population was closer to Yeah, And I
always felt, I don't know, kind of like an odd
person out. Not that I mean I They're very nice
people that I grew up with in that way that
you know, I I I make fun of small town

(14:28):
living a little bit as I now live in New
York City, but there I do it from a place
of being like, those are my people, and I can
do that like there is a kindness uh sometimes associated
with that and a closeness. But at the same time,
I also was, you know, like the son of uh

(14:50):
college professor and a librarian living in an area that
was not like heavily academic. It was not based on that.
And we were very liberal family in the middle of
a very conservative area. So I did feel kind of
weird growing up because of all that. Now we're movies.

(15:12):
You're you're such a film fan and like a true cinephile.
That's that's one of the reasons I was excited about
having you on because uh, and you can tell just
from listening to the flophouse at the end when you
guys do your recommendations, you know, you go deep. You've
seen a lot of you you're a big fan of
older movies, and you have just a lot of I
think deep knowledge about film. Was that something that started

(15:34):
when you were younger? Yeah, I you know, I bought
a like I said, my mom was a librarian. She
started out of the public library and then later on
she was the director of the library at the college
in town. But uh, but I would go to book
sales a lot and for a quarter. I remember, I
bought one of those Roger Ebert movie yearbooks. And I think,

(15:58):
I as I've grown up, I've been a pressed by
how many people have had this kind of same experience
with Roder Ebert, where I would just read through those
reviews like it was a normal book, you know, just
because he was such a fan and he was a
good writer about film and and blessedly I think he's

(16:19):
a critic but not particularly hard on movies, so like
he wants to like a movie, which led me to
kind of be willing to check out whatever. And I would,
you know, like on his recommendation, I would watch movies
that he liked, and maybe I would also maybe I
wouldn't like he was famously wrong about Like I don't

(16:41):
know he liked it, gave like raising Arizona one and
a half started review, which is nutty, but uh, but yeah,
I mean I think that started it. And then I
would just read a bunch of books about movies in
addition to it, being like I was the youngest kid,
so I think it was let left to do whatever

(17:01):
I wanted to in certain ways, and I would just
sit in front of the TV watching movies and uh.
And also I don't know, like I remember stuff like that,
Like it shows where my head is at that, Like Audrey,
my girlfriend is sort of annoyed in me. I think
sometimes that I can't recall people that I've met several times.

(17:24):
But at the same time, but like I know that
the dog in Pumpkinhead is the same as the dog
in Gremlin's you know, like it's the same dog actor
named Mushroom, And that's in my head. No, you know, man,
we're kind of similar in that way. U. Emily, my
wife has always just laughing at that. Um, A lot

(17:45):
of it's a movie, but for me too, it's a
lot of music factoids, Like she'll just she'll make fun
of me in the same way like you can name
the basis for poison, but you know, yeah, you can't
remember the conversation that we had yesterday. It was pretty important.
But does think we just locked in? You know, it
wasn't like an argument per se, but we just had

(18:06):
like a discussion about who was supposed to text whom
back and like apparently she had talked to me about that,
and she says that that had happened, and I believe her.
I think I just have forgotten it, Like there are
things that just slide out of my head. Now, were
you doing? Um stand up? Was that kind of your

(18:30):
first foray into comedy? I I've done a little stand up, um,
never enough to call myself a stand up I think
because those people, like they go out and do it
every night, multiple times a night, if there if they
want to be big. I was kind of a dabbler.
Like the best I ever did was some guy who

(18:53):
used to be the warm up comic at the Daily Show,
Like once like one had to put to throw together
a show that said that like people were from the
Daily Show just so he could get stage time, I'm sure,
and asked me, like, hey, you want to come do this,
and I was like sure, Like that was like the
closest to a real club I ever played, because it
was people in from out of town rather than like

(19:14):
a bunch of comedy nerds. And I did. I did okay,
but like mostly I did like improv and sketch and uh.
There was a short lived humor magazine called Just That
another guy from my college, Rich Duncan, put out for
a while that I wrote for, and um, yeah, through that,
I met a guy, Frank Lesser, who wrote for Colbert,

(19:35):
and I came very close to getting hired on Colbert
once but um but I did not make it. Although
like it's interesting. I went in and they had timed
everything so that uh so that um the people were like,
you're you were sitting with your other candidates, but they
did not have it staggered out at all. And so

(19:57):
I walked in and I like, I saw my friend
Jack back, and then I also saw this woman, Megan Gans,
who like i'd seen before at like friends things, and
we like chatted. I don't think that she would remember me,
but I followed her career ever since then because she's
like went on to write for Community and it's always
sunning Philadelphia, and she's one of the people behind this

(20:19):
uh mythic Quest show on Apple TV. And I've been
like weirdly proud that I, uh that we both lost
out on the same job, because because I think she's great.
But uh, yeah, it was a lot of kicking around,
trying whatever I could. Now when did how did the
Daily Show happen? The Daily Show happened because I so

(20:43):
I had taken a lot of classes at the Upright
Citizens Brigade Theater, as basically everyone in comedy did at
that time, and I eventually just got kind of fed
up with it because I think it's a good place
for people to go, or was if they've closed down,
but uh, to like get plugged into the world. But
then you have to sort of keep paying to take

(21:05):
classes and and and being around all the time to
try and like snag onto whatever stage time you can.
And that's the same you know a lot a lot
of places. But I wanted to go someplace else where
I could just do stuff. So my friend Eric had
the small theater downtown called Juvie Hall that lasted for

(21:25):
like I don't know four years at most um because
he was just renting it from a larger theater upstairs,
and it never made that much money. But but I
met Elliott. They're doing shows. I did a show with him,
I did a show with also with Sarah Schaefer, who

(21:46):
had had a show on MTV for a while. Yeah,
and um, like the people who came out of that
small theater have have mostly gone on to do good stuff,
which just goes to show I think that it doesn't
necessarily matter where you're performing. It just like a commitment
and and trying to stick with it. But I met
Elliott there and I immediately wanted to be friends with him.

(22:09):
Partly I admit that I was starstruck that he was
a producer at that time at The Daily Show, but
also he wrote a blog called the Oscars Are Always
Wrong at the time and it's since been lost because
like whatever was hosting its like went under or whatever.
But he was going like a year by year saying, okay,

(22:29):
well this one this year in this category. He went
through like most of the categories and like this was
a better movie. That's like he knows all these classic movies,
just starting from the the top. And I'm like, okay, well,
I want to be friends with him. And I kind
of made it my mission to become friends with him,
and so we did the podcast together for a while,
and when there was an opportunity at the show, he

(22:50):
recommended me and I actually again didn't get it, but
they kept my name on file because I was very
close to getting it. And uh, then like a month later,
someone else left and they brought me in, and so
it was me and my friend Juban Perenge coming in
at the same time. He was the guy that they
hired before me, and he's now like one of the

(23:12):
top people of the show, so clearly they should have
hired him before me. But but we both got jobs. Now,
what was the transition like between John and Trevor was that?
I mean, how I don't know how much you can
talk about it, but how seamless or bumpy was that?
I mean, you know, it was a mix. I mean, like,

(23:36):
Trevor is extremely nice and he kept on like almost
everyone who who worked there because like probably because he
didn't you know, he was coming from South Africa, didn't
necessarily have his own like quote guys in the US.
He brought a couple of people that were close to
him along with him. But um, I think it was

(23:59):
important to him to come in and be like, you
all know how to make this show, and my version
of the show is not going to be the same show.
But like on you know, most of the skills, if
your nimble, are going to transfer and you're all good
at this. So um, it's it's you know, it's always

(24:21):
just a question I think of voice. Um, you have
to unlearn how to write like John and learn how
to write like Trevor. And I think I was for
as much as Trevor was very positive of my my
writing from the start, I think I was a little
rocky with that because I kind of have a hard

(24:43):
time with change. So in my mind, I'm like, well,
it's funny. It's funny. But like you, I had forgotten
the lesson that I knew when I first started the job,
which is, you know, so much of it is just
writing to the person you're writing for. I mean, as
a viewer, it was it felt very smooth. I mean
it was it was the same show but different. Um

(25:08):
if you know, if that makes sense, and which is
I think the only way it could have gone and
still maintained it its success was not to completely revamp
the show. It's it's still the Daily Show. Um, and
I think Trevor is great. I mean, I love John,
but there was never any question like, uh, you know,
am I going to give this a try or anything

(25:29):
like that. Yeah, I you know, Trevor was in an
impossible position, which is I think is why like, like
I you know, I don't think he'd be offended by
me saying that, Like there were certainly big names that

(25:50):
didn't want the job just because they thought, like that's
an impossible thing that like to follow this, yea, but
he had the self possession to think like, Okay, I
can do it, I can do it in a different way.
And you know, like, I think we suffered a little
bit because people expected it's be exactly the same or

(26:11):
they expected like a total reinvention. I think you're right,
like neither one really would have worked, but people like
to rush to judgment. And but now I think that
like people have had the time to adjust, they can
see you know that it's a it's it's good and

(26:33):
it's different. But like, you know, I don't know. The
show got nominated for Emmys a couple of times. It's
still a show that people enjoy and honestly, Like at
the end, John was pulling in an older audience than
would have stuck with the show, like like trefor has
definitely brought the age down of the people who who

(26:54):
view it, which I'm sure everyone who is in charge
of like the money is very you with yeah, absolutely,
Um how many do you have Emmy's in your apartment?
Do you own a? Uh? Yeah, I guess I owned them.
That's such a funny. That is accurate, But I don't

(27:18):
think anyone ever says that it's funny. Um, now I
have I have to I got one. There was a
there's a period. I don't know if it's still true
because it's it's been a while, but there's a period where, um,
the Emmy producers wanted to like they're like writers, who
cares about writers? And they wanted to shove us off

(27:38):
to the creative arts, non televised part of the show. Um,
and the Guild didn't like that. And I think there
was like back and forth, and it was like this
one year on, one year off thing. So the first
time I got one was actually on one of the

(28:01):
off years, and I had convinced because I was excited
about it being in my first time I convinced like
a couple other people to go like this was actually
right after one of the guys on the show, Rich Blomquist,
got married to Christian Shawl, and we were we were
all at the wedding, all the writers, and then like

(28:22):
the creative Archimmy's was the same weekend, and and I
think that I sort of started a lancelide of a
few other people coming after this wedding that was crazy
and had al pacas in it and parents, um, and
we went and thank God that there are like four
of us there because we we won that year. And uh.

(28:45):
And then the second time the writers won, it was
actually a sweep for the show because it was John's
last year. And the funny thing. The funny thing is
both times L. L Cool J was our presenter. Both
times I won an Emmy. L Cool was the guy
man that moment um that the last one was just
so great when he brought everybody out there that was

(29:07):
that was one of the cool moments. Because I've always
been a fan of the Daily Show. I even watched
back in you know, the Kilburn days. Um, and I've
known I think more so than any like other piece
of entertainment. I've known more people like I know you.
I know, uh, Chad Carter is an old buddy, and
I used to know Hallie Haggling a little bit, and

(29:28):
Jimmy Donn a little bit, and Whyatt and if I
added up, you know, there's probably like seven or eight
people I guess Hodgman included from the Daily Show staff
that have kind of been pals with over the years.
And it's just a great show. I love how it's
just continue to be awesome. And I think maybe Trevor
coming over as more of an unknown was the best move.

(29:49):
You know, it would have been tough to have some
just sort of well known American face kind of step
in there. I think, yeah, I think so too. Halle
is so great. She's still there just because you've invoked her,
I must say, she's one of my favorites now she's
she's still working there. She left to be I don't

(30:13):
I don't know her exact title, whether she was executive producer.
She was basically show running Wyatt's show HBO for those
two seasons and now she's out in l A. And
I believe she got a job right before everything hit,
So I don't know what's happening with I think she's
still working, but I don't. Yeah, I wish I knew

(30:35):
more about her life. She's a wonderful person. She is
definitely one of those people though if you're not seeing
her every day it's easy to like for us both
to like flake on each other. Except for them. Occasionally
she'll decide that she's sending me tin texts and it well,
tell her, I said, Hi. I don't know if she'll
remember me, but she She's done a couple of things
with stuff you should know over the years, and just

(30:57):
a very nice, kind of funny person. Do you want
to talk Aliens? Sure? All right, dude. Well you sent
a like, not a bunch, but sort of a list
of films. Most of them were they ranged from His
Girl Friday two. Uh, it was north By Northwest on there,

(31:21):
yeah and basically almost but north By Northwest was my
first loved. Yeah, and then we settled on Aliens somehow,
which I'm glad because, uh the nine six sci fi
action I think even more horror than I remember now
that I saw it again last night from James Cameron.

(31:44):
And here's my deal. I I've seen Alien probably I
don't know fifteen times, and it's one of my favorite movies.
And I saw Aliens and loved it back in the
day and think I must have seen it a couple
of times after, maybe like in college on you know,
on VHS, but really had not seen it in probably

(32:07):
twenty years. Wow. Yeah, I it is one of the
movies I watched the most when I was a teenager.
I it was that and Heather's An Army of Darkness.
I had them on VHS tape. Yeah. No, I still

(32:28):
love all of them, but I would watch them over
and over, and so I had I hadn't seen it
for a long time, just because I knew it so well,
other than the Brooklyn Academy of Music had like a
series that was actually on puppeteering, and they were like
it was taking like kind of a broad view of it,
so they had Aliens in there too, since so much

(32:48):
of that was puppeteering and and it was it worked
great on a big screen with an audience. I I
mean this time, like I watched it and it's also
familiar to me. I still enjoyed it. I was still
like paying deep attention to it. Well, Audrey sat next
to me playing animal Crossing. Uh, she liked it fine,

(33:11):
But you know, I think that she's not like, uh,
like greatly younger than me or anything, but she is
thirty two to my forty one. And I think that
sometimes with movies like that, they become so influential that
they've they seem old when you see them for the

(33:32):
first time, if if you didn't see them at the time. Yeah,
she still thought it looked great and was engaging. But
I think that, like, there have been too many movies
that stole from it at this point. But now I
watched the extended version, which uh is streaming on Hulu.
I've never seen that one before. Um. I assume you've

(33:55):
seen that version. That was what I watched last night. Um,
and I think it is the better cut, with one
big exception, which is what I think. We don't need
to see the terror formers on the colony before all
all hell breaks loose, because like, you know, you know

(34:16):
that as soon as you hear that their calumnists on,
they'll be four eighty two or whatever it is, forty six,
I don't remember. Uh, you know that they're gonna be
eaten by aliens or you know, bread by aliens. Whatever
you want to say this even worth does I don't know.
Uh turned into a little more Xeno morphs. Um, so
you don't need that scene to I don't know. I

(34:39):
think it's less effective to for when like Newt finally
shows up to or before, I don't know. Now you
know what. I think you're right, um, and that the
actor is not especially good who plays Papa Terra Farmer? Um,
So yeah, I think you're right. Um. It didn't offend
me or anything, but now that you mentioned it, it's

(35:01):
you don't need to see it. I see why it
was cut. Uh the other parts, I mean, correct me
if I'm wrong. But the Sigourney Weaver find finding out
about her daughter, yes, Uh, that was great and I'm
surprised they cut that. Yeah, that is the part I
think that the movie, I mean the movie, the theatrical
version is amazing still, but I think that the movie

(35:22):
hurts the most for that cut because the movie is
so much about motherhood. Like it's it's funny, like this's
like this action horror movie about motherhood. But um, you know,
like with Newt being Sigourney Weaver's storyett daughter, but also
this queen alien just like protecting her eggs. It's it's

(35:46):
it's just strange I think to have that gone. And
the other the other big difference is the scene with
the century guns as although the rounds you see them
ticking down. I thought that was pretty cool. I I mean,
I think that's a great suspense scene. It's definitely something
that you could cut, but I still love having it. No,

(36:06):
I thought it was good. Um, and I had, you know,
I hadn't seen it so long. I wasn't exactly sure
what was new and what wasn't. And you know, went
and did the research and found those three scenes and
it sort of jogged my memory that they weren't as familiar.
But I thought the centry gun scenes were pretty awesome. Yeah. Well,
when I saw it as a kid, like that was

(36:26):
one of the scenes that really terrified me the most.
And I I want to speak to what you said
before about horror movie, like I think that they'll accepted
line like Internet crowd Think has proclaimed that Alien is
a horror movie and Aliens is an action movie, and
I don't I don't necessarily by I mean, I see

(36:48):
what they're saying, it's more action oriented movie. But I
think that like as you said, it's action, science fiction
horror all together. I did the The The typical I
think people say about Alien is, oh, it's a haunted
house movie in space, And that's true and so much

(37:10):
as it's about this like closed unit of space that
people are stuck in with something uh, bedeviling them. But
it also I think it plays a lot more like
a slasher because it's these characters getting split up and
and taken out one by one totally. And Aliens, I
think is more like kind of a horror movie. And

(37:30):
the zombie movie category usually more action oriented. You're being
besieged by a lot of monsters. Yeah, and it's actly
you know, um, if you listen to Friendly Fire, they
covered that on their war movie podcast and make the
argument that it's also a war movie, which you know,

(37:51):
you've got this battalion of marines and it has a
lot of the familiar war movie tropes for sure, this
sort of rag tag dirty doesn't like group of you know,
foul mouth soldiers. Um, so it has it's interesting, it
pulls in all these different elements. Um. But last night
it just kept hitting me more and more all the
different horror elements that I kind of didn't remember as

(38:14):
much being there as an alien, and I think there's
just as many and aliens as alien. Mm hmm, yeah, Yeah,
you're right. It's definitely also a warror movie and that
you could easily kind of read it, I guess as
this Vietnam metaphor where this cocky group of of soldiers
comes in and then is completely overwhelmed by this force
that is like, you know, it seems to come out

(38:36):
of nowhere and right, and it's not. You know, they
have this technologically superior firepower that they just take for
granted will overwhelm anything, and you know quickly find out
that they're wrong. Yeah, And it's interesting Audrey's pointing out that,
like this is a one of the few movies that

(38:58):
always wants you to side on the uh and kind
of of running away almost like like like there's no
point during this movie where you think that the movie
wants you to think that going back and dealing with
some aliens is a good idea yea, Like from the start,
Sigourney Weaver doesn't want to do it, but she kind

(39:21):
of does it because she thinks she needs to face
her fear. She so terrified she wants to, like if
it's out there. She has to know it's been dealt with.
She like it's almost compulsion with her, but she knows
it's not a good idea. She tells him it's not
a good idea, Like as soon as it's bad, she's like,
we gotta get out of here and nuke it from space.
And there's not the usual like stuff that a movie

(39:42):
tries to pull, where it's like no, no, no no, no,
no no, we we still save these people, like no, no, no,
those people are gone. We gotta get out of here. Yeah.
And you know, Bill Paxton also clearly is very famous
in this movie for just being uh, sort of a
whiny let's get out of here, man. Uh. I mean,

(40:03):
I love Bill Paxton. It's so funny. He's the most
This is one of the most obnoxious characters in the
history of movies. And Bill Paxton is a real human.
Was just such a sweet guy. And I remember listening
to the Mark maren uh interview with him and just
being like, did you did you hear that? Do you
listen to the Marin shows ever? I have? I don't
think I've heard the packs on one man. You should

(40:24):
check it out because you can't listen to it and
not be like, boy, I really want to be Bill
Paxson's next door neighbor and like go over and barbecue
at his house. He just seemed like such a decent,
great guy. Yeah. I think that it is that sweetness
that's you can sense in him that lets you not

(40:46):
be he's totally annoyed by that character. That and the
fact that he's right in being a scared doe. Yeah,
he's right every time. But yeah, that's interesting. Now what
are your thoughts on um James Cameron. Let's let's talk
about him for a minute. Where where do you stand
with him? I think he's largely great. I mean, for

(41:11):
the most part, I love his stuff. I mean, so
he did this right after The Terminator, which is crazy,
like he went like from modestly budget to like huge
success to like this, you know, giant sequel. But I
mean The Terminator is another thing that gets classified as
an action movie that I think is as much horror

(41:32):
as it is action. Yeah, and I think it's terrific.
And then this is amazing Terminator too. I think actually
is the thing like unlike I don't feel the same
big change from Realley Scott's Alien to Aliens in terms
of not being horror as I do. Actually like Terminator two.

(41:53):
I think becomes much more of a straight action film,
but it's an amazing one. I I love the first
two acts of the Abyss. Yeah, I love the Abyss.
I think that I probably my least favorite movie of
his is actually True Lies, because I feel like, weirdly

(42:15):
for such like I'm macho filmmaker, women come off very
well in his movies and are given like like they
are always as capable, if not often much more capable
than the men. Other than I think True Lies is
is kind of abominable in the way like it treats
Jamie Curtis's character. But yeah, that's my least people make

(42:40):
fun of the Avatar. Avatar was fine, like it's fun,
Like I don't have a need to revisit it, not
in three D, but in three D it was amazing.
And uh, and Titanic is you know, has become I
think a bit of a joke just because people are
all ashamed that they got suckered in by such a
melodramatic movie and they all cried and literally no I
was crying, but like I totally cried. I loved it

(43:02):
first time. I saw. In fact that I've seen Titanic
a bunch of times. I think it works. I think
that it works. Yeah, And the biggest rap against James
Cameron is like, so with Aliens, right the there's not
a lot of memorable lines because the lines are memberable,
Like usually the lines are memorable because the actors are

(43:23):
so good saying them and like they put an interesting
spin on them. And I think the rap against him
is usually like, oh, he can't his dialogue is usually
just serviceable. I see that, But I also think like
he is a genius at constructing a story that is thrilling,

(43:46):
and his dialogue may not be amazing, but he can
present a character to you very quickly and you know
exactly who that character is and exactly like whether you
like them or not or you know, you know it.
He paints very quickly, but very uh indelibly and and

(44:07):
in a way that connects right away. And so I'll
be willing to forgive those shortcomings. I guess, yeah, man,
you said it best. I'm sort of right parking my
car in your garage there. I've always knocked him as
a writer, but as you know, uh and listeners, it's
a good lesson to learn, and there's more to writing

(44:28):
than just the words that people say. Um, he's very
kind of on the nose and trophy and some of
some of the lines of dialogue he writes, I'm just
still angry about um, notably in Titanic when Billy Zane
says something about the the Picasso or whatever and nothing
will ever become of him, and I knew exactly what.

(44:50):
I hate that stuff so much because I can just
picture James Cameron patting himself on the back and how
clever that is. And it's not. But there is so
much more to writing and to writing a movie than
the words that people say. And you're right the way
he establishes character so quickly. Um, he writes a hell
of an action uh movie and action sequences because you

(45:15):
know someone has to write that stuff. It's not he's
also the director. But you've got to put that down
on paper, on the page. And it's hard for me
to admit that he is a successful writer for what
kinds of movies he's making. But he is. Yeah, I mean, like,
and you see this on all levels, right, because like
I want, I'm not gonna give something like fifty shades

(45:43):
of Gray, let's say credit for being well written at all,
but clearly the person who wrote it, whether or not
it's for me, has a talent at connecting with people
of making them want to read the thing. And that
is a thing that I think critics don't tend to value,

(46:08):
but is maybe the most valuable part in terms of like,
if you want an audience to be interested in what
you're doing, well, again, not my thing, but right, you
have to like, I don't know, like the older I get,
the less snobby I feel like I get about a
lot of things like I don't you know what, Yeah,

(46:28):
you did a good thing here. Yeah, that's kind of great.
The It's kind of one of the great things about
getting older is you don't care about being cool anymore,
liking the coolest things, and you get way less snobby
about stuff and more brave about just saying like yeah
I like that, fuck you yea yeah. Um this movie

(46:49):
has a lot of the d n A of Terminator
and uh, I'm sure you know this, but for the listener,
this movie was made. Um, he kind of got the
green light to make this movie. They had been in
the hands of lawyers and there were lawsuits and that's
why it took so long to get a sequel made,
and when it finally came together, they hired Cameron on
the strength of the Terminator doing well. But he had

(47:11):
already written the treatment and then got a chance to
write even a sort of a short version of the
script um before Terminator came out, and the studio was like,
this guy's okay. But then Terminator was a big hit
and they were like, all right, he's the dude. But
you can see a lot of the same DNA in
the way it looks. Um. Both have these great, strong

(47:32):
female protagonists that are being gas lighted at the beginning
of the movie. Um. Yeah, well, I guess that more
or less happens a little bit more in Terminator too. Um,
but she's you know, Sarah Connor. I feel like he's
always being gaslighted in that series. Yeah, I Audrey was

(47:53):
asking me, and apologies if I'm stepping on the question.
You were going to ask, like why, I like the
why I chose this, say, rather than Alien. I mean,
I'm sure you've done Alien, but like, okay, well I
and I was like, well, I mean, among other things,
like I think Alien is probably the more quote like

(48:14):
perfect movie, it's the more unified movie, it's the more
unique movie. It's more Yeah, But in terms of like
the fun I have watching it, I have more fun
watching aliens. And also, like I appreciate intellectually the fact
that an alien you don't necessarily know who the quote

(48:36):
hero is. At the beginning, Ripley sort of emerges from
the crowd as she sort of proves herself like how
competent she is, and like that combined with just the
luck of surviving um And that's interesting to me as
a way of writing a movie. But Weaver is so

(48:58):
good in this movie, and to have her be like
front and center and like so emotionally, like you empathize
with her right away. She's so capable, Like she grows
through the movie, like she turns into this warrior to
some degree, but at the same time, you can see

(49:18):
that she has it in her from the start. And
one of the great things about it we were talking
about how in general, again, other than Jamie Lee Curtis,
I think Cameron does pretty well by female characters. Like
one of the things I like best about this movie
is the way that Hicks reacts to Ripley, like you
don't know who he is at the beginning of the movie,

(49:39):
he's this like grunt who kind of seems a little
sardonic and like he's a loner. He doesn't you know,
maybe buy d all this ship, but he's also good
at it and and as Ripley like sort of emerges
as the one making the most sense, like the smartest

(50:01):
one in the room, you know, he willingly like immediately
supports her without like trying to take over, Like he's
happy to like take a back seat to the person
that he thinks is best equipped to like to handle this.
And there's like a you know, there's a hint of
attraction between them, but there's the movie also doesn't shoehorn

(50:22):
romance in there's no time for the aliens, you know. Yeah,
and he could have done that too. He could have
shoehorned more of that. There's that one sort of interaction
and the one line that they have together. Uh what
does he say, something like what we don't we don't
thin get engaged or something like that. Yeah, he gets her,
like the tracking bracelets. It doesn't mean we're married or
anything or something like that. Like, yeah, and that was

(50:44):
just enough, man, just a little especially for Cameron who
tends to kind of hit the viewer over the head
with whatever he's trying to get across. I thought that
he showed some restraint there. Um, but that's one of
my favorite parts of the movie when he backs her
and uh, like she's she's sort of in in charge
at that point. Basically yeah, yeah, I mean, Gorman's out

(51:07):
of the picture, and so she correctly judges that like
Hicks is smart and will back her, and like points
out that he's in charge, and they sort of form
an alliance. And yeah, it's uh, it's nice. I mean, like,
like I said, everything is drawn very quickly and in

(51:27):
a way, but in a way that you understand and
makes sense, like character wise in the middle of all
this action. Yeah, Ripley's just i mean, top maybe top
five movie characters movie heroes for me. Uh, she's just
such a badass and and her and you know, the
hero's journey for her is just so rich, and her

(51:50):
character arc is so rich and Scorny Weaver just acts
the hell out of it. Um, never over the top.
She's always uh, she just always hits all the right notes.
I feel like, yeah, yeah, and she's I mean, she's
such a great actress, but like and she was a
big star, but I think that also one of those

(52:12):
stars that also almost in spite of being big, like
people didn't totally know what to do with because she's
so strong and she's like she is beautiful, but like
in a different way like but and and she can
do drama and she's like super funny and something like Ghostbusters,

(52:34):
And it's almost like I think she's almost like such
an imposing presence that people must have been scared of
her almost like like again, huge star, but but she
must have been kind of a hard one for Hollywood,
Hollywood to figure out because she doesn't fit into boxes anything.

(52:55):
Now I'm totally with you. Um, I don't know if
you're a big fan of the movie The Ice Storm.
It's we covered that on this show and it's one
of my favorite movies. And just seeing her in that too,
like she's got such range. Um, yeah, she's just awesome.
I wish I saw more ever these days. Yeah, No,
she's yeah, And I love that she will show up

(53:15):
and do like a random voice on something like oh
does she yeah? I mean I I mean this is
old at this point, like I know, Futurama, Like she
would she did something for them, but like, I do
think that she kind of enjoys dipping in and doing
like a silly comedy thing, yeah, or a or a
cameo with a lot of impact. You know, that's cool.

(53:37):
I do like it at the beginning to that little
bit where you see the you know, there are a
couple of nods to Alien, and one of them is
at the beginning when it just has on the video
screen behind or uh you see y'all at codo and
then Harry Dean Stanton and that's just you know, I
think Cameron did the right thing and basically saying, I mean,
such a great set up for a sequel. It's like,

(53:58):
well you liked it the Alien like and even called
the aliens like, how about one where there's a bunch
of them and it just ramps up the action and
it was just such a smart plan to sequelize this film. Yeah,
And I think, I mean, nowadays I feel like that

(54:19):
is you know, the obvious playbook right to be like, okay,
well it's bigger this time like that is like, but
I don't think so much at the time it was
like a cliche and it is such a clever thing like, Okay,
Ripley is now isolated from her past experience. It's much later,

(54:40):
and now she's gonna go back. And the thing that horrifighter,
there's a bunch more of them. I mean, the one
place where it kind of gets loses a little is
that these new aliens are a lot easier to kill
than that one. But she encountered before, and you know,
you can sort of write that off to the fact
that these are marines and they have actual guns now.

(55:02):
But but that's I think that that's the only thing
you kind of lose in that scenario. But it is.
But then again, it was like super smart. It was,
and I didn't even think about it really that much
until this viewing that there that the Cameron's like, okay, well,

(55:22):
if she's fighting a bunch of aliens throughout the movie,
there has to be a climactic thing, like what is
the climactic thing? And so he introduces the idea and
he does it. He sets it up well throughout the
movie that like, oh, in this alien society, there's probably
a queen. And then she meets the queen and so
it gives her at the at like the last moment,

(55:45):
like very late in the movie a big thing to fight,
but that doesn't keep the Queen alien from being any
less iconic, you know. Yeah, I mean it's sort of
like the video game. You know, it's like fighting the
boss at the end. They're fighting all these aliens who
in the first movie, like you said, there's just one
of them, and it's still so goddamn scary. Um And

(56:08):
this one, I think he knew, like, you can't just
add more aliens. Uh, We're going to do that, but
it can't just be that. Um, you still had to
have a great story in that, Like you said, that
climax with the Queen at the end. Uh, it's just
you know, that's the only way this could could finish.

(56:32):
And I also think that Cameron pioneered a notion that like,
I mean, at this point, it's gone too far and
I find it frustrating in action movies where they have
ending after ending after ending. Yeah. Yeah, like like they
took the lesson to heart too much. But I think
Cameron was one of the people who pioneered like, Okay,
well I'm not going to give you one climax. There's

(56:54):
actually gonna be a couple of climaxes, Like movie could
easily end with them like flying away from the planet
and blowing up. But then the Queen has made it
onto the ship and you have the great loader fight. Man.
I mean that last ten minutes is like some of
the best part of the whole movie. Yeah, and then
you know he he plants the in a very non

(57:17):
subtle Cameron way. He has the foreshadowing of the the
loader machine spot or whatever at the beginning, and the
fact that she can drive it and she's super adept
at it um and it's just you know, it's like
the gun in Act one. You just wait for it
to come back. I mean, you're right, it is it subtle,
but I also think it it is done in such

(57:39):
a if you're not going to be subtled, at least
do it with some humor, because that scene is so
much fun. You know, it's her proving herself to these
macho jerks and showing like she can do stuff. And
the I I don't know the actor who plays the
the like the sergeant's name or whatever, but the guy

(57:59):
who always as a cigar like he's delighted reaction to
her being able to pilot it is great. Yeah, very
trophy and kind of perfect. And that's what I love
about Cameron too, Like he is trophy. But these we
talk a lot about tropes on this show. At tropes
are tropes for a reason because they generally work. It's

(58:19):
not like people keep doing the same thing over and
over because it doesn't work for movies. Like, he's a
he's a movie maker. He makes these big movies that
feel and look like movies and smell like movies. And
you go in the summertime and you sit down and
you watch Aliens and you leave just with a big
grin on your face. You know, there's something to be
said for that. Yeah, I mean I don't like. The

(58:42):
thing is there are people making this kind of incredibly
skilled blockbuster today. You know, they're few and far between,
but they've always been kind of few and far between,
the really good ones. Yeah, but I my reaction to
them will be less often as intense, just because I

(59:07):
am older. Aliens is such a huge, crowd pleasing movie
that's also thrilling and scary. And I saw it, you know,
when I was like twelve or thirteen or whatever, So
it's kind of perfect in that way. Yeah. Um, the
motion tracker device is so brilliant as a film filmmaking

(59:32):
device because it you know, it adds a literal ticking sound.
You know, the ticking clock is always great for suspense.
And then ah, just the brilliance of seeing it coming
them not seeing it, but they hear it coming, and uh,
you can just get so much out of the visual

(59:54):
and that sound. Uh, it's all just so great. It's
such a brilliant idea. No, it's terrific. Although, like I wonder,
I wonder how like some of the technology plays for
new viewers, like absolutely new viewers now, because like I
think the movie still looks amazing. Yeah, it holds up

(01:00:15):
pretty well. But like technology like the trackers or the
like video camera or whatever, it is just like futuristic
yet retro thing where it's like, Okay, like we can
make these amazing special effects, but we're gonna imagine that
like everything looks like a VHS tape in the future,

(01:00:37):
or like the tracker is just gonna be like a
little a couple of blips on a on a on
a green grid or whatever it is. Yeah, I think
it holds up the um. The one part to me
that suffered the most was the said fucking car the Yeah,
the transport vehicle or whatever, that one doesn't hold up
super well. It doesn't, especially when you've seen things since then,

(01:01:01):
like the The Batman Tumbler and like vehicles look like
they could totally really work on that terrain. No, it
looks like a first draft for the Tumbler, and you
don't believe that anything that bulky is going to be
able to like handle to drive down these hallways to
wherever they are. The funny thing about this movie is
like I have no sense of a lot of the

(01:01:21):
geography and the whole thing, and yet it still works.
Like yet yet within the scene, you know the geography
of everything that's going on. But from scene to scene,
I'm I'm often not sure, Like, Okay, where the base
are they supposed to be? Right now? You know, you're right.
I never really thought about that, but you're kind of right.
It's um, it is sort of a big dark uh

(01:01:45):
not a dark mess, but and you know, maybe that's
part of it. Uh, maybe that was purposeful to just
sort of disorient and lose you as a as a viewer.
I don't know. Yeah, is that a Is that a reach? No?
I don't think it's a reach, but I do think
it also is just like a side effect of they
decided on kind of one look for the way space

(01:02:11):
colonies and starships look in this universe, and and then
every place looks like that. Look like I was looking
at Sigourney Weavers, like Ripley's um apartment for instance, when
she comes back, and I'm like Jesus Christ and the future,
like is there no color like because no one like

(01:02:31):
decorate their way. It's it's also grim white ikea. Yeah. Uh,
And I think just like Alien to the other thing
that stood out to me was how long he takes
to get to the alien. Oh yeah, Like there's a
lot of restraint in this movie for that, you know,
the lessons of Jaws and the Alien. I think it's

(01:02:53):
a full hour in when you finally get to see
the Zeno Moore for the first time. No, I yeah
that I was reflecting on to rewatching it. They and
none of it feels like, I mean, none of it's dull.
I mean, I don't think that if you're a good filmmaker,
any sort of like laying of groundwork is dull. But
like it all moves, it all explains that the characters

(01:03:17):
are It puts the pieces in place still like having
a lot of suspense on its own with that before
the monster shows up. But yeah, it is very good
at withholding and then all hell breaks loose. Yeah, well
I think that's sort of the key is they withhold
and then once that ship starts. Uh, it's really just

(01:03:38):
a sort of a NonStop set piece after that, kind
of one after the other. There are a little a
couple of brief moments of of kind of gathering yourself
where you can take a breath. But um, just some great,
great action uh so much that h a character like
Newt doesn't even spoil it. Oh you don't like Newt, dude,

(01:03:58):
I don't like Newte and I have a five year
old daughter. So well here's this I mean for me
with new Like, I do not like child characters in
movies that are not about children, like if if if
it's a movie about children, then that's a different story.
But oftentimes they are precocious actor types, or they have

(01:04:23):
been shoehorned into a story that where they shouldn't be
because like the somewhere along the line someone thought, okay,
we need someone cute in here, or they are written
as if they're adults. Like they speak as if there
are adults, which is the thing that annoys me the most,
like the precocious kid who like makes jokes that no

(01:04:46):
kid would ever make. But I like new Like Newde
is actually probably my favorite child character in a non
child movie because I think, you know, she like she's
good at being shell shocked you. She doesn't actually talk
that much. She's like been traumatized by this, but she's
holding on. She like she makes sense in the context

(01:05:09):
of the story. She makes sense in the themes of
the story. Like she she I think she has like
she has like this weird accent that I don't know
what it is. I looked her up. She like was
she's from Florida. It's not like but it gives like
an off kilter delivery to things that doesn't feel fake

(01:05:31):
to me. So you know, I I like her. Up
with newt Yeah, up with new as far as I'm concerned.
I was very mad when Alien three killed off her
and Hicks, And uh that's why in my mind those
films are not canonical. Nothing is Aliens. Yeah, I mean

(01:05:51):
it was okay, she bugged me a little bit. I
totally get her function and it did work. You know
as a function um with the sort of motherhood through
line that you were talking about. And um, I guess
you know we needed more than jones E in in
this one, although we do get Jonesy at the beginning,

(01:06:12):
which is great. Yea that And I wondered last night.
I was like, man, I've had a bunch of fucking cats.
Why have I never had a cat named jones E?
What a dumb dumb Yeah, what's your cat's name? Archie?
Archie that's right, which is actually named after carry Grant
Archibald Leech. Feel name, very nice, very snotty wave of

(01:06:34):
naming a cat. Let's talk about Paul Riser for a second.
Oh yeah, he's great in this movie. Yeah, Like he
is obviously like weasilely from the start, but in in
that like he's like treating Ripley with such condescension. He

(01:06:54):
keeps like calling your kiddo and whatnot. But like but
it's still Paul Riser. Are still this like comedy guy,
you know, and he's showing her enough empathy that the
first time you see this movie you're like, Okay, well
he's like a company guy, but like maybe he's actually underside.
Maybe he's the one person on the company who's not
like a Sleez. But yeah, but then he like he's

(01:07:20):
really revealed as such, I think, a blank eyed monster,
Like even when he is confronted, he is still sort
of insisting upon his like empathy and the smartness of
his play, you know. And it's one of these things
you always have to accept these movies that like these

(01:07:40):
Weakley people are like, no, we can use it as
a bioweapon. It's fine when you know obviously this thing
cannot be controlled. But I've seen enough bad stuff happen
in the world that I'm like, yeah, okay, there are
people out there just that dumb who are that devoted
to wanting weapons. It's it's fine, I'll take hell scept that. Yeah,

(01:08:01):
I kind of believed. Um, I'm not sure how much
I remembered about what happened to his character. So even
last night, after twenty years, I found myself saying, like,
what you're saying, he's a company man, but like he
does seem to like Ripley, and I think he may
actually be an ally. Um. I think he walks that

(01:08:21):
line very well as as an actor in this and
it just goes so fully bad there at the end,
like literally leaves her to die by turning that monitor off.
Such a like in terms of it being a horror movie,
like that impregnation scene where he leaves the two face

(01:08:42):
augers in for Ripley and Newt like the attempted uh
incubation thing, I think the scariest part of the movie,
like with this. I mean it might be partly because
I think spiders are very creepy, Like the naturalness of
their construction freaks me out, and so these face huggers

(01:09:04):
skittering around trying to like put eggs inside these people
is terrifying. Yeah, that's it's the worst. Um. That also
reminds me of that great shot kind of early on
after you see that face hugger of Sigourney Weaver's hand,
that close up of her hand and it totally like
looks like a face hugger has kind of long bony fingers.

(01:09:26):
That's great. This movie is good. It's a good movie.
I'm gonna go out on all them say it's a
good movie. Uh, Lansin Risen, we should talk about him
for a sect. He's he takes over for I guess
Ian Holmes android and uh this the whole Alien series
has always done a really great job with the are

(01:09:47):
they called androids? What are they called? In this I
think he says that he prefers the term synthetic humans exactly.
Uh yeah, watching it last night, I was struck by
Bishop makes such a huge impression in the movie, but
he's not in it all that much. Like he does

(01:10:11):
the knife thing at the beginning, and then he's sort
of like around doing like medical stuff and being mistrusted
by Ripley since she's had obviously a terrible experience with
a synthetic person in the last one, and then he
volunteers to be the one to go and get the
ship and so like he's taken out the action for

(01:10:32):
a huge person and only comes in again at the end,
and you know he helps new but like he doesn't
have a big part in the final battle or anything.
But I think that Hendrickson is so iconic, Like there's
something about him. He's such a an interesting presence just
as a human being, and but he's also like so

(01:10:55):
good a seeming a little synthetic, but also I feel like,
you know, I trusted him right away when I first
saw Alien and knew that like, you know, Ripley was
wrong to mistrust him because he there's he projects like
the stalwart attitude in the movie too. Yeah, I mean

(01:11:20):
he's I think I didn't trust him because of the
first movie. Fully, like I was just sort of where
Ripley was. Um. But he turns out to be kind
of one of the heroes of the movie and a
really pure, um, stand up guy. Uh. And that and
it really is sort of there's some emotion to it

(01:11:41):
when I was watching it last night, when he and
and it's also a badass when he gets picked up
and ripped apart so quickly, ripped ripped into two pieces
by the Queen Mother. But when he's laying there, you know,
half half laying there, Uh, and he saves new like
that packs an emotional punch that I don't remember when
I was, you know, sixteen, probably because I was sixteen. Yeah.

(01:12:04):
And as we know, uh, everything after this movie didn't happen,
and so they took Bishop home and repaired him and
he's fine. That's right. I have a hard time remembering
Alien three at all. I Mean, the thing is, it's
not a bad movie. I mean, it's a David Fincher movie.
It was famously like passed with a lot they like,

(01:12:27):
I did a bunch of stuff to it, and it
was a chaotic production. I think things were being rewritten
all the time while it was going. But you know,
it's hard for someone that talented to make something that's
a piece of junk. There's there's a lot of like
very striking imagery and it it just it starts from

(01:12:48):
that problem of killing off these characters that were very
meaningful to people, and then it just gets bleaker from there.
And you know, if it was if it was his
own movie, unconnected with Aliens, I would like it a
lot more. Yeah, yeah, I mean that that last that

(01:13:09):
last sequence is so good and like he said, the
sort of false ending and the one more big you know,
it's all and that's sort of a horror movie thing too,
like the Killer's dead, there's one more battle to fight,
but he doesn't overdo it. It works really well here. Um.
I know that Jane Cisco famously had a problem with
this movie, and there than the use of Newt as

(01:13:30):
a he thought it was sort of sadistic almost to
use her as a prop at the end of this movie.
And I didn't see that at all. I mean to
me it it worked in the action of the moment,
which was that that vacuum chamber was open to space
and things were getting sucked out. Like it all made sense.
It didn't feel gratuitous to me. I mean, I you know,

(01:13:55):
I like I like Ebert a lot more than Cisco,
for I mean, like Ebert was like a movie aficionado,
and I think Cisco was more of a guy who
kind of like was a newspaper guy who got shunted
into writing about movies and liked them well and was
a smart guy. But but both of them, I think,

(01:14:16):
at least earlier in their careers, kind of felt vict
him a little bit to kind of moral panic stuff
at times, which is weird considering, for instance, that like Rachi,
Ebert wrote Beyond the Valley of the Dolls and such like,
and he you know, it's he gave like Last House

(01:14:38):
on the Left of four star review and that is
a brutally upsetting movie. Like I don't know, I mean,
I like Wes Craven's later stuff, but I don't know
how much I actually like Lest House on the Left.
But so they were all over the place sometimes with
that stuff. Well, but Ebert also wasn't afraid to go back,
like he said earlier and say he got something wrong. Yeah,

(01:15:00):
which for a critic, that's sort of a bold move,
you know. I think, Um, I think a lot of critics,
we'll we'll die on that hill, even if they know
they're wrong, just because they think that might whatever put
a chink in their their armor or something. Yeah. Yeah,
did you ever see his that documentary about him life itself? Yes,
I saw it, and I also I have the the book, Um,

(01:15:22):
both excellent. Yeah. Yeah, because you're an avid reader. Another
thing that you can't listen to the Flap House and
not pick up on the fact that you and Elliott
uh ands too. But you guys are all like film
junkies and well read, and you know it's it's as
silly as the show is, it's a smart show. At
the same time, I appreciate it. It's good that we

(01:15:45):
somehow found someplace to put all this stuff. Like like,
for most people, uh, spending so much time on entertainment
would be a little bit of a waste, no matter
how pleasurable it might be. But we've figured out a
way to roll it into something productive. Totally. Well, you

(01:16:12):
got anything else on aliens. I feel like we did
a pretty good job. I think we actually touched on
all the sort of the thoughts I had. Well, we're
watching it, all right, Well we'll finish up with five questions. Then.
I didn't tell you that we do this, but because
I like to get a your instinctual answers. But Dan
and McCoy of The Daily Show, what was the first

(01:16:33):
movie you remember seeing in the theater? I think the
first movie I remember saying is Never Cry Wolf. Oh
I remember that. Yeah, well you're one of the few.
I mean, I think it was well received at the time,
but it's not super well known. But yeah, it's I
think it's about a guy who went up and lived
with the wolves and naturalists. Totally remember that movie. Yeah

(01:16:54):
was Disney, right, Yeah, I don't remember a lot of
it because I was so young. I remember that Brian
and he was in it. I remember that there they
like deposit him in Alaska from an airplane, and I
remember that he falls through the ice at one point,
and I think he eats a mouse at one point.
That's about it. That's kind of what I remember too.
I remember the mouse thing for sure. It's so funny.

(01:17:17):
What was the first R rated movie you saw. Oh jeez,
was it? Would that have been a big deal. I mean,
it might have been this. I don't like, I don't know.
I I have this memory, like this is not an
R rated movie. This is PG thirteen aliens think no, no, no,

(01:17:38):
the one I mentioned. Sorry, I have a bad habit
sometimes of starting it's like reversing the order in a
sentence of things. But no, I remember my brothers and
they deny this happening, but I remember them like closing
the curtains and making me watch movies like this and Poltergeist,
which I think was PG thirteen unless it was before

(01:18:00):
or that was a thing. It could have been the
PG days. But um so they would force these things
on me, like but this is the probably not the
right one, but it's the one I remember. Although like,
I don't know. My parents were very for all that.
Like my dad was a minister before I was born,
and my mom was raised by a Methodist minister. They

(01:18:22):
weren't really that concerned by the time I was around
as the youngest, like what was on television? So you know,
I would walk in and they'd be watching stripes or whatever.
You know, it would be fine, so no, that's cool.
I was the youngest too, so uh they still had
the They still didn't. They weren't super permissive growing up

(01:18:45):
Baptist about what I could watch. But by the time
I sort of cracked that that window opened with Escape
from New York. After that it was kind of kind
of all bets are off there, like, yeah, whatever, you've
seen one. Now you can just see whatever. Uh now
this Um. I kind of had an issue with Stewart
on this question too, since you guys do the flophouse.
But the question is this, do you walk out of

(01:19:07):
a bad movie for someone who does a bad movie podcast?
You know, once I'm at the theater, I basically don't.
I the one time I can remember walking out a movie,
it was not because it was bad. It was just
I was not in the mood. Like I I was
going to the movie, the Korean horror movie The Eye,

(01:19:30):
because I had heard it had good reviews, and it
was my birthday, and like, honestly, I'm such a movie
nerd that like that's all I want to do on
my birthday to celebrate, as go see a movie. And
I just was in it for half an hour. I'm like,
you know, what This isn't what I want right now,

(01:19:52):
and nothing is forcing me to stay, So let's go. Yeah,
and you know, my apologies to the eye. I'm sure
you're a good movie, but I wanted right then. I'm
sure you're a good movie. I uh number four a
tailored to the guests. So as a comedy writer, I'm

(01:20:12):
gonna ask you what movie, Um, you know, let's say
it's a world where a movie can be co written
or there's a writer's room for all these films. What
what movie do you wish you would have been a
writer for or in that room and coming up with
the jokes. And I guess it doesn't have to be
a comedy, but you'll probably say Hitchcock or something. Well, no,

(01:20:34):
I mean my I'm torn between two things, and that's
either a Marx Brothers movie, because I feel like that
was the earliest, strongest influence on me in terms of
just finding something hysterically funny when I first uh saw
Animal Crackers when I was like ten, um, Like, you know,

(01:20:55):
one of the first things my family rented on VHS.
And you know, one of your kids and you have
an like if you're instilled early, you're not prejudice against
an old movie, like if if you have to learn
to not care about that stuff, but um, but I
watched it was so so funny, and so that would

(01:21:15):
be good, although that is also so dependent on the characters,
which can be like good, Like if you have a
really strong understanding of character, it is very easy then
to write jokes in that voice, like if somebody has
a strong character. I have become over the last few
years one of the real go to people whenever there's

(01:21:38):
a back in Black on the show, one of the
Lewis Black segments, and his voice is so strong, and
for whatever reason, being an old, cranky person is something
I feel into a tune to um, like thanks, I

(01:22:01):
you know it it. It is a lot easier for
me sometimes to write those jokes because I'm like, okay,
well Louis would think this, and what's the funniest luisy
way to say it? So, you know, like there's that
joy of writing for a character. But my other impulse
is to write for something like Mighty Python of the

(01:22:22):
Holy Grail, where you just can throw out the silliest
stuff that doesn't necessarily have to be connected to one
character or one plot, just go all over the place
and this is what you think is funny. Yeah, we're
putting it in totally. That's good. Um. I always thought
Blazing Saddles would have been a fun writer showm with
mel Brooks and Rich and that would a lot of
fun man, all right. And finally number five, movie going

(01:22:45):
one on one, what is your movie going ritual? Where
do you sit, where do you go? What do you eat? Uh? Well, obviously,
you know everyone has been talking about this on your show.
I'm sure it's closed down theaters, but when life was normal,
I would go to the Alamo draft House in Brooklyn.

(01:23:06):
Um had the same answer, Yeah, it is. You know,
it was so easy to get to from my place.
You know, it's like twenty minutes by train, like straight shot,
so it immediately and it's such a much better theater
experience than almost in together theater I've ever been. And
that it has gotten to the point that when you know,

(01:23:28):
in normal life, when you can go to the theater,
it was the only one. At a certain point I
would go to like you wouldn't be there, and I'd
be like, oh, I guess I'm waiting to see that one.
But I'm pretty boring in that I you know, like
a good center seat. I tend to go for row
four at the Alamo because there's usually a bigger walk

(01:23:52):
away in front of you for the servers and such.
And uh, you know, I'll get there early because I'm
a nerd and I like to be on time. And
also they have pre shows, so even though it's reserved,
I get there early. And uh and I'll probably get
a drink too, since that's a wonderful thing you can

(01:24:13):
do there as well. Yeah, I love it all right, dude.
Well that's it. Thanks, thank you so much. I feel
like it's been a long time coming. Yeah. I feel
like we talked about this a couple of years ago,
perhaps even I I think so too. But it's good
that I think that you were able to arrange it
to stack everyone up and and you know, quarantine, bad

(01:24:39):
for everything else, good for podcasting. Yeah, people. Yeah, I
mean I think the reason now that I think back
is that it didn't happen for so long is because
I like doing these in person and they're just a
lot better, and so I was waiting for it to
work out with me in New York. Um, but then
once all of this ship hit the fan, uh, and
I started doing these sort of skypes and zooms, thought me,

(01:25:00):
you know, this is fine because it's fun for us too.
We could have a hang for an hour and a
half and uh, which we all need. Yeah, So anyway,
this is great and thanks dude, this is awesome. Thank
you all right everyone. That was a lot of fun

(01:25:24):
for me. I had so much fun going back and
seeing this movie again after so many years. I don't
know why it kind of fell out of my rotation,
but it's back in there. Um. It was great talking
to Dan. Dan as awesome as I'm sure you agree. Now,
go listen to the Flophouse. It's a great, great show,
so much fun. Like I said in the show, you
don't have to even see these bad movies to have

(01:25:45):
a good time listening to these dudes. It's just very
fun and funny and they do each bring something unique
to their little trio. And uh, they've been around for
a long time for a very good reason. I'm a
big time flopper and it's been my comfort food. And
it was great to talk to Dan for the last
hour and a half about Aliens. A lot of fun.
So support Max, Fun, support the Flophouse, Support Dan McCoy

(01:26:07):
and The Daily Show, And thanks for listening to you guys,
and we'll see you next week. Bloomy Crush has produced, edited,
and engineered by Ramsey Unt. You're in our home studio
at Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia for I Heart Radio.

(01:26:31):
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
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