June 14, 2017 • 40 mins
Is our obsession with cleanliness keeping us from peak health? Also, can hookworm cure allergies? Will harvesting panda poop make you rich? And why Amish dust is superior to other dust (seriously!). Featuring Penny Sarchet.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what mango? What's that will? So I was traveling
last week and as I go through security, I'm waiting
on my bag to be scanned, and I catch this
strong whiff of pure and it reminded me to pull
mine out, because there's something about all this stuff going
in and out of bins that really grosses me out.
But then I realized mine wasn't on me. So I
looked at the end of the moving belt and I
saw there was a dispenser. I walk over and I
(00:20):
put some of that magic on my hands. Ten feet
after that, there was another dispenser. Suddenly I started noticing
these things everywhere I could have gone swimming, and all
the hand sanitizer available to me. It's something so present
in our lives. My son just calls it hand sand hands,
and I hope that takes off me too. And it
made me wonder how did hand sanitizer becomes such a thing.
(00:41):
And it turns out it goes all the way back
to this woman named Goldie Lippmann who worked at a
rubber plant in the forties. At the time, workers would
use benzine to get carbon off their hands, which is
super harsh. So Goldie and her husband Jerry, invented a
more gentle, waterless cleaner. It's this classic startup story. They
lived in their parents attict. They mixed up test batches
and the laundry machine, and then they packaged it in
(01:02):
pickle jars. That's right, so artisical, I know. But then
they tried to sell the stuff and it didn't go
so well. How come? Well, no one wanted to try
this goopy stuff, So Jerry came up with a sales trick.
Just before meeting. He scored a little dab on his palm.
Then when someone would shake his hand, they'd get startled
because who wants to feel this cold, wet glob and
(01:23):
a handshake. It's pretty gross, I know. But as they
rubbed it to get it off, the factory stains would
vanish from inside their palms, which I guess. It's pretty smart.
It's genius, I think. And so this is the proto
purell and today hand sanitizers are everywhere, But looking at
all the hands sand around us, it got me wondering
are we being overprotective? How clean should we be? And
(01:46):
that's the question we're tackling on Today's Part Time Genius
Say their podcast listeners, I'm Will Pearson and as always
(02:08):
I'm joined by my good friend man Gesh Ticketer, and
you're listening to part Time Genius now today I can
barely recognize man Gesh because he's currently wrapped in plastic
wrapped from the office kitchen. Any reeks of hand sanitizers?
Did I used too much? I mean, maybe a little. Well,
I know Purell is more your thing, but ever since
doing all this research on germs this week, I think
of making it my signature scent. Like how prints always
(02:29):
smell like lavender. I can't say that I was aware
of that. Yeah, used to smell like heavy, heavy lavender,
and his friends used to say that they could smell
his presence like a full minute before he entered the room.
So you'd be sitting there and you'd feel this hit
of lavender and then oh, you can just appear like
an angel. Anyway, after this week, I'm thinking of doing
that with Purel. I think that's a that's a brilliant plan, Mango.
(02:52):
But you know what's interesting, and I realized we're going
deep on hand sanitizer before this episode even starts. But
one of the things customers always indicate is a preference
for unscented sanitizers, but when hand sanitizer companies came out
with more a few years ago, not only did customers
not by the fragrance reversions, but there was concern in
the health community that people weren't applying enough of it
(03:13):
to really kill the germs. Well, I'm pretty sure I
use enough of it. I would agree with that. But
speaking of our research this week, we were reminded yet
again that science is weird because it feels like we're
always reading these contradictory reports. It's healthy to drink wine
one week, then it's not healthy to drink wine. It's
healthy to drink coffee, it's not healthy to drink coffee.
You know, it turns out it's not healthy to smoke
(03:35):
a bucket full of cigarettes. That that is how they
sell cigarettes now today. Still, yeah, you want to get
them by the top, that's the super cool thing to do.
And it feels like studies on germs are the same way.
I mean, we know it's good to be clean, but
we also hear reports that tell us to quit trying
to kill every germ out there. Speaking of which, before
we fully dive into this, I know we can both
(03:56):
be a little germophobic, mango, But what's one thing you
do it was a germophobe that you'd be embarrassed to admit.
I know. For me, it's that as soon as I
walk into a hotel room, I look for the free
shower cap and the bathroom or the plastic bag and
the ice bucket to slip over the remote control so
like a remote control condom. Oh yeah, I love it.
So we've known each other for almost twenty years now,
(04:18):
and I'm not sure you know this, but I won't
take a sip out of a drink someone else has
been drinking from. I know. And it's not just germophobic,
it's cultural. Like in India, the tap water is un drinkable,
so families tend to keep big glass bottles filled with
purified water on tables. They're communal and they're just filled
and ready to drink from. So it's a four year
(04:38):
old you learned to pour water from one or two
inches above your mouth, so you're never actually touching your
lips to it. And it's all because you don't want
to spread germs, Like if you've touched your lips to it,
then you've ruined it for everyone else. But and this
is the weird part, and it's hard for me to
say out loud, but even if my wife sees me
drinking a bottle of root beer and just takes a swig,
I can't drink it out, Like I really can't drink it.
(05:00):
I have to force myself. And so that's my big secret.
Like my sister and I both, it's this weird mixture
of like Indian politeness and germophoben nous and sort of
where those things then diagram. I think this is really
the kind of thing you shouldn't admit, not because it's
that embarrassing, but because friends love to mess with you
on things like this. It's like when friends find out
that I can't stand for my nose to be touched.
(05:21):
It makes me dizzy, and then they just think it's
so funny to walk up and tappy right on the
button knows that's right now. We also wanted our podcast
listeners to share some of their more embarrassing germophobic moments
on Facebook. So if you're up for sharing, contribute your
story to our Facebook page and we'll be mailing out
a big and ridiculous prize to our favorite three stories.
What What what's the prize again, I can't tell you.
(05:43):
This is gonna be huge, so big can't win. But
let's talk about this recent cover story and New Scientists.
You know this is one of my favorite magazines. I mean, honestly,
how many times a day do I mention my love
of New Scientists? Conservatively, maybe I'd say at least yeah.
So Penny Sarche, a biomedical news editor for New Scientists,
which we've established I love, and who's going to be
(06:04):
joining us a little later today, wrote a story titled
Germ Warfare, and and it she talks about this struggle
of trying to figure out how clean is too clean,
because we know good hygiene helps prevent infection and the
spread of disease, but we also know they're definitely good
bacteria that keep us well. But let's back up a
little bit. So in the late eighties and early nineties,
many researchers really started to get behind the theory that
(06:26):
kids were developing allergies later because they were avoiding so
many infections early in life, and they had plenty of
evidence to point to like kids are less likely to
develop allergies or asthma if they grew up on a farm,
or grew up with a dog, or if their parents
washed dishes by hand. I mean, we're a dishwasher family.
Some white kids are screwed. Definitely us too. But oh,
here's a really gross one. Are you ready for this?
(06:47):
You might want to gargle a little more purele before
I read this up. So Sarch says a two thousand
fourteen paper that found that children are less likely to
develop precursors to asthma if in their first year they're
exposed to particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches. It makes
you wonder if they'll eventually develop a powder made of
cat hair, mice tails, and cockroach faces that you sprinkle
(07:10):
on your kid. Cockroach faces. I don't know why it
has to be faces, but it just seemed all of
it was gross. We can't even imagine that. Actually, I
read this piece in the l A Times about Amish
families and their homes because the kids tend to have
considerably less asthma. And scientists actually took dust from regular
homes and then dust from Amish households, and when they
sprinkled the Amish dust in front of mice's noses, it
(07:31):
tended to protect the mice's airways from allergens, which is
so crazy, so amish dust. It's like a new business idea,
we are going to be so rich. Actually, do you
know who was really dirty and probably didn't have much
as I can't wait for the answer on this one.
What a setup, right? For some reason I got stuck
in a rabbit hole about royalty and according to the economist,
(07:53):
kings from France and England in the fifteen hundreds and
sixteen hundreds were the dirtiest, like they believe hot water
was the devil and that they could open up your
pores and let all sorts of illness in. So here.
A few stories I found like Francis Henry the fourth
famously stunk of quote sweat stables feet and Garland Louis
(08:15):
the eighth didn't have his first bath until he was seven.
Oh God, Versailles for all the glamorous laboratories, like washing
with water wasn't even a concern. And England's James the
First never bathe. He only washed his fingertips, just just
the tips. That is so gross. But unfortunately, being healthy
and living forever isn't as simple as just saying okay,
(08:35):
let's be dirtier. But before we dig into that, how
about we break for a quiz. Sounds smart, So, Mengo,
who do we have on the line to play today?
So he's got two lab scientists. Their names are Bertha
and Umish, and Umish is a special guest. That's right, Mash,
(08:59):
Welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. So you knows
was a chemical engineer who worked on several agriculture products
over the years. But I heard that you actually first
got interested in chemistry and experiments by baking bread with
your dad as a kid in India. Is this true?
Or is Mango just making stuff up as usual? You
used to make the cloth and we had to modify
(09:21):
it for gluten and other things to make it sure
it rose and reacted to the east. That's wonderful, that's
really neat. What a great way to be introduced to
the science. Is so. And our second guest, Bertha is
at the University of Alabama, Birmingham. Bertha, Welcome to the show. Hi,
thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit what
you do at U A B. So, I'm a genetic
(09:43):
epigeeologist and um that does not mean that I study
skin diseases. I study genetics and um type two diabetes
and a b CD and cardiovascular disease, and try and
figure out what environmental exposures can change some of our
genetic outcomes. Oh wow, very cool. Yeah, we do the
(10:04):
same thing, but Mango and I are both really into
that kind of expert on the side. Yeah, speaking of
on the side, I understand that when you first got
into the field, you weren't quite making enough money to
make ends meet, so you would ballroom dance to bring
in additional money. Is this true? I did? I am
responsible for many a wedding first dance choreography. Yes, yeah,
(10:29):
it was a lot of fun. Well cool, Well best
the best science is very collaborative science. So we've decided
to let you to team up for this quiz. Now
what are we playing, Mengo. We're playing a game called
clean Sweep. Okay, all right, Now, normally we would try
to make some sort of tangential connection, like being lab scientists,
you're very good at sanitizing things. But we want to
be honest with you here. We just found a lot
(10:50):
of words that rhymed with clean and turned them into
quiz questions. So this is how it works. We're going
to give you a clue, and then you say the
word clean before the example. So this is so stupid, Mango.
You're the best at these awful cluses. Alright, so give
us a sample, Mango. So the reason we wear costumes
on October thirty one, you would say clean Halloween, right?
(11:14):
Or Elizabeth the second title in England, you might say
clean Queen? Right? All right? You guys that you guys
got it? Okay, so here we go. We're gonna let
you guys go one at a time, but you're working together,
and if one of you doesn't get it, you can
toss it to the other person. So, Bertha, we will
start with you. Question number one. A stretched out car
(11:35):
that glamorous people get to drive in. Oh uh, clean
limousine for one mesh an underwater vessel the Beatles sang
about you got it all right, Bertha. A jingle jangle
hand instrument. Bob Dylan asked a man to play in
the song Oh My Goodness and my Dad as a
(11:56):
backup singer in a Rolling Stones band and call it
might know this all right, let's hear it. It's a
jingle jangle hand instrument. It would be a clean tambourine
that's okay, alright, who matched? This is back to you
the thing you mix with ginger ale in a Shirley
(12:18):
Temple queen grenade felt their Bertha, Okay, this one's back
to you, alright. A character with adamantium clause from the
X Men. It's also the University of Michigan mascot. We're
just gonna throw them out. Let either one of you answer.
Here we go, number number six. You guys have gotten
(12:41):
five out of six, so you're in good shape. A
colorful easter candy, the Easter bunny might leave for you.
A colorful candy the Easter Bunny might leave for you.
You got it, Bertha, well done, alright. Question number seven
two left a method of execution that arose during the
French Revolution. The last time one was used and was
in France in nineteen seventy seven. Got a nice job,
(13:05):
last one, all right? Former star of Two and a
Half Men, brother to Amelio Estevez. Oh gosh, it's got
a dad named Martin. Yes, clean, Charlie Sheen, I don't
think really exists. So it's ath So how many do they?
(13:27):
How many they get? Right? Mango? So they got seven
out of eight and of course that means they win
the big prize, which is a note to your mom,
your boss written from us, which is, you know, finally
the validation you've been looking for. Wow, what a great prize.
Congratulations guys. So we're talking about the question how clean
(13:54):
is too clean? And before the break we were discussing
how a little more dirt in our lives might be
a key to healthier live thing. But for anyone who
heard that and decided to start licking the floor, pull
yourself together. It's a little more complicated than that, although
it is a little of that, right, Like, one of
the things I'm fascinated by is that we ingest fifty
to sixty milligrams of soil a day, and that little
bit of dirt might be helping us be healthier. Like,
(14:17):
scientists also think playing quote social sports can help and
will I know, we like to have debates about what
a sport is, like is Badman really a sports? Please
don't get me started off. I know you have some
super strong feelings. But what's important here is where we're
getting our daily bacteria from could actually play a big
role in our health, right, I mean, the reality is
some bacteria are good, some are bad. So it's more
(14:39):
about understanding our dada microbiome. Now you're probably wondering what
a microbiome is, And for the super condensed version, let's
turn to our microbiome correspondent. Oh wait, that's you. You're
you're a microbiome correspondent. Ban of congratulations. All right, okay,
talk to me. I can talk to microbiomes. So let's
stuff back as that. And we humans like to think
(15:01):
of ourselves as individuals, right, like we've got big egos.
But the truth is there as many non human cells
in our body as human cells, and because they're all
working with us, playing a vital role in our body's success,
in some ways, it's more important to think of your
body like a super organism, almost like a colony of
ants all working together, or even a slime mold, like
(15:22):
all pulling in one direction. I know it's gross, right,
but that analogy doesn't even go far enough. In fact,
your body is more like a rainforest, and each of
the thousands of bacterial species inside you is precisely built
for a specific environment. Like the bacteria and your stomach
would die if it moved to your small intestine, and
the small intestine stuff would struggle if it was placed
(15:43):
in the big intestine. Like, it's actually that complicated. As
one of my science writer friends told me, humans are
more closely related to C squirts than these microbacteria are
to one another. Yeah, And another way to think about
how diverse your body is is to like take a
look at your left hand in your right hand. Your
hands feel like they should be the same, right, but
of the thousands of bacteria on there, your left hand
(16:05):
and right hand might only share one in six microbial species.
Like how bizarre is that crazy? Right? So scientists are
isolating these microbes and understanding their superpowers. They're also considering
how to hack the bacteria and use it to human advantage.
Like in Sweden, doctors at a hospital noticed that their
pneumonia patients were getting infections from feeding tubes and the
(16:27):
patients were having a harsh reaction to the antibacterial sprays.
So the doctors looked at this bacteria in your saliva
called lacto basilious plantarum, and it's this probiotic that helps
you break down food in your saliva. And when they
spread the culture inside their patients mounts and on the
feeding tubes, it actually stopped the infections like no side effects.
(16:50):
So scientists have been using the Human Microbiome Project to
crack the code and map out all over microbiota. What
one crazy thing about microbiomes is that scientists used to
think that how bay bees were born might affect it,
like c sections. In particular, they thought might be creating
a different type and perhaps less healthy baby than straight
vaginal deliveries. But it turns out that isn't true. I
(17:10):
mean it's true initially, but by six weeks the differences
aren't even detectable, which is pretty crazy because kids aren't
crawling around then. But the colonies just grow so fast
in the mouth and on the skin and then the
gut that they don't need that much exposure to grow
these distinct colonies all over their bodies. I know, I
think if toddlers being dirty, but not really babies dirty babies.
(17:31):
But the lesson is, in general, it's healthiest to have
a wider range of microbes. So it's not quite true
to say that getting more infections as a child makes
us healthier later. It's really the exposure to different bacteria,
and almost exclusively exposure at a very early age. I mean,
we're talking before the age of three, that's when it's
pretty much set. I mean, you know, as my mom
(17:51):
used to say, once your microbiome is set, your microbiome
is set. She's right, you gotta set in forget it
like a firm, not like a or permanent. As my
grandfather would say. People still get perms. That a thing
they will now, So that means the bad news for
all those who were excited to start skipping your chores
and stop washing your hands and bathing. It doesn't mean
(18:12):
you should stop doing any of those things. Well, one shore,
I mean, I've read a bunch of these reports and
they all said the same thing. Don't make your bed.
And can I tell you one thing, sure, I hate
this advice so much, like making my bed is the
one thing I do. It makes my room look orderly.
But even though I hate saying this, an unmade bed
is healthier because it exposes the dust mites in your
(18:35):
bed sheets to sunlight and fresh air, which you know
kills them off and helps your allergies. Man, the kids
are going to really love this episode. So don't mother
making your bed. I'm behind that. But where should we
be cutting back? Now Here? A few places antibacterial soaps.
I mean, we've been seeing for a couple of decades
now that when we killed too much of the good bacteria,
the undesirable bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics, which could be dangerous. Also,
(18:59):
clean products indoor pollution from all the cleaning supplies and
chemicals in them. The most harmful ones are often the
ones being used just to produce a good smell, So
instead you should clean with things like vinegar and other
products that you'd feel comfortable cooking with. Yeah. So I
was actually looking into this because my family tries to
use mostly organic cleaning products for a kid's sake, And
when I was googling what you can do to reduce
(19:21):
the chemical sense in your home, one of the things
that comes up is a list of recommendations from NASA.
From NASA, Yeah, I just learned this, but every year
NASA issues a list of the best plants to help
purify your home, and they've been doing clear air studies
since the eighties because the agency wants to know what's
the best way to clean the air and space stations.
So this list of preferred plants as things like the
(19:42):
peace lily, which can eliminate traces of formaldehyde and benzene
and pneumonia. But it's also toxic to dogs, which is
kind of a big trade off, right, like peace dogs
between clear air and this plant. It's all plant. But
the crazier thing to me is this red inundation on
the ideal number of plants you should have in your house.
(20:03):
And can you guess what it is? I don't know.
Four it's one plant for a hundred square feet. Like
I live in a tiny, super small apartment with a
wife and two kids, and now I have to share
it with a tiny forest, like just to breathe the air.
I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. That's
so speaking of our homes and finding that perfect balance
of clean, Penny Sarchet describes a science approved hygiene sweet spot,
(20:27):
So that is, you're not looking to completely sterilize your home.
It's more about focusing on getting rid of harmful bacteria
in places. This bacteria is most likely to be in
places we come into contact with, so kitchen surfaces, door knobs,
bathroom light switches. But as long as we're talking about Penny,
what do you say? We get around the phone and
give her a little quiz and that sounds great. All right,
(20:54):
So we've been talking about new scientists a lot and
how much we love new scientists. And you know how
excited I because we have a biomedical news editor joining
us today, Penny Sarsha. She's going to uh talk to
us about her article and a few other questions that
we have, but also to play one of your ridiculous games.
She may regret this visit. What's the game we're gonna
be playing? Not so dirty words? Okay? All right, well
(21:17):
we'll find out more about that in a bit. But Penny,
welcome to Part Time Genius. Hi. Thank you so much
for writing the story and for joining us. I I
do have to start up by asking you about this
quote that, to be honest, kind of made me feel
nauseous when I read it. So you were talking about
a two thousand fourteen paper that found that children are
less likely to develop asthma or precursors DASM. I guess
(21:39):
you said in their first year if they're exposed to
particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches. What do we do?
What do we do about this? Penny? I know it's
really grand, isn't it. I think the difficult thing is
you can measure these things and find me association, but
working out like the coolisation and what that actually means,
like is a cockroach particle good for a child. It's
(22:03):
an entirely different experiment and one that you're not ever
going to do, so I wouldn't aim to have a
stiff be home, But I think the best way to
see that kind of thing is more an indication that
it's not as simple as let's just be dirty or
let's just be clean. And I think some of the
further research that I did after coming across that paper
(22:24):
kind of suggested that these things, like the fact that
you were exposed to cat hair, also meant you were
probably exposed to other things related to the cat. So
it might not be in the cat hair or even
the cat fe sees that you may have come into
contact with. It's the fact that the cat might have
been bringing soil into your home, for example, and perhaps
some of the bacterian soil are really good for preventing
(22:47):
asma and young infants. But it's just it came out
as this quite disgusting correlation in the study. Yeah, I'm
glad to know that it's not necessarily the cat feces
that you said, that's that's like that. So, Kenny, I
thought you did a really nice job of describing a
clean sweet spot in your article, and I was just
curious if you could just describe that for our listeners
(23:07):
a little bit. Yeah, it's quite helpful for me too. Um.
So it's basically almost like a priority system. So you
should really focus on being clean at the most important
sites and places in your home and at the most
important times, and that stops you from spreading infection and
getting sick. But it also means you're not spending your
(23:29):
entire life needlessly cleaning your home from top to bottom.
So the places we're talking about, you know, certaining kitchen
sstaces and cooking, but also in the touch points, so
light switches, doorn or like taps as well, and just
things that you touch a lot, and you might pass
things onto who you're living with. And then in terms
(23:51):
of times, it's obviously when you go to the bathroom
and when you're cooking and when you're eating, but also
if someone is sick in the house, you might want
to be unpup how clean you are and how often
you've clean down these touch points, because if someone in
your family has noura virus and it's growing up regularly,
you're obviously at much higher risk of spreading things around
(24:12):
the home and the family. Then say, you know, you've
got a clean bill of health and no one's obviously ill.
The whole study around the microbiome is just so fascinating,
and it feels like we're still so early and understanding
the microbiome. What what kinds of things are you guys
thinking about it new scientists right now, or things you
think will be able to better treat as we as
(24:33):
we better understand the microbiome. Well, So it's so difficult
to know because there's just endless conditions that seem to
be linked in some way to the microbiome, like everything
from Albioman's to obesity, and we're still really only sort
of unraveling those links, and we're still quite a long
way from working out how usefully we can use this um.
(24:54):
But I haven't stopped lots of people from already developing
like sprays and treatment and all kinds of things you
can buy online to kind of change the bacteria and
your skin or in your gut, And we don't really
know whether there's work yet and if so, how there
are a few things we know. So in some places,
fecal transplant, so that really is just a transplant of
(25:16):
pooh is allowed or has been approved of the treatment
for se differentials, which is a bacterial infection that is
really difficult to get rid of once you've got it.
So that's kind of they're quite a landmark in that
respect that it's actually being used as a treatment there.
But there are people out there who are just going
ahead and doing transplants of pooh themselves in an unregulated way,
(25:41):
and from some kinds of studies like this, there are
kind of early anctotes and warning signs that this is
obviously much more complex than we really know yet because
there's so many species of bacteria and we don't know
what they're doing. Um, so there's some evidence that maybe
if you were to receive the transplant from someone you
is a beast, that might actually make you more likely
(26:03):
to become a beast, and these kinds of interesting effects
that start happening when you play around with your microbiome.
So yeah, it's really any days. And the other thing
we don't really know is beyond something drastic like if
people transplant, can you really even change your microbiome beyond
beyond the age of about three. Maybe you're obviously go
through a lot of changes this first few years of life.
(26:25):
But once your body has been colonized by whichever bacteria
come on in, can you really kind of shift it
much more in a healthier or less healthy direction. We
don't really know that yet, you know. One thing I
was curious about was whether your behavior has changed since
working on this article, Like, when was the last time
you wash your hands? Yeah, I'm still a fan of
(26:45):
washing my hands. I did the toilet before speaking to you,
so they're very keen right now. But yeah, handslessing, I
haven't changed. I was hoping actually for an excuse to
wash my hands left being a clean freak, but actually
speaking into the food hygiene and home hygiene experts who
are telling me about how many people get food poisoning
(27:05):
in their homes every year, that actually gave me no
excuse to cut back at all. But we've got a
garden flat that we're in and out all the time
with bikes and plants and things, and so much of
what I'm speaking to some of the people about soil
and dirt and just being outside. I'm a lot more relaxed. Now,
if we kind of walk soil in just sweep at
us and they need to kind of really thoroughly clean
(27:28):
the floor or anything like that. Um, I think the
only thing there that would be really wearing was if
we had a baby that was cooling around and licking
the floor. If they want to do that would be
slightly mooring, but that's not what I do. All right, Well,
thank you for talking about how to be clean, and
we want to put you to the test if you're
willing to stick around and play a game of what
did you say? The game was called it's called Not
(27:49):
So Dirty Words, and it's a game we expressly wrote
for you since you're a clean expert. Here's how it works.
We're going to take one word that sounds dirty and
give you two definition and all you have to do
is tell us which one is the real one. Does
that make sense? Yeah? Alright, here we go. Word number
one is formication. That's not with an inn but an
(28:13):
M as in Michael. Formication. Does it mean a a
sensation like insects crawling on your skin? Or be the
word veterinarians used for the tartar build up on a
goat's teeth. Formication, that's a tough one. I think I'm
going to go with a formication insects because of maybe
(28:34):
you're absolutely absolutely she's all on also an insects expert. Alright,
this is a number two. This is where did you
find these mango? This is ridiculous? Alright? Number two? Did
you make this up? Is this a real thing? Okay?
Tortis maximus okay is Trtis maximus a broad shield volcano
that forms in the middle of oceanic plates, or the
(28:58):
Latin name for the Tibetan blackbird found in the Himalayas
in Pakistan. Tortois maximus. Is it a volcano or a blackbird?
I'd like to think if it was a bird it
would sound for more familiar, although I can't remember what
blackbird is right now. I'm going to go with a volcano.
It's it's actually the blackbird. It's a member of the
(29:21):
thrush family. Oh, of course, if we had just given
her that hand that it was a member of the
thrush family, nailed it. So Number three. Our soul spelled
a R. S O l e is our soul, a
Hawaiian term for meat harvested from the tender coconut, or
be a ring shaped arsenic based organic compound. Is it
(29:46):
a word for the meat harvested from the tender coconut
or a ring shaped arsenic based organic compound. I can't
tell if it's a red herring or not, but as
surely yes, well done, Okay, let's do I'm just having
too much fun. Let's let's keep going, all right, the
next one fartlick f A R T L e K.
(30:07):
You can use these words in your articles in the future,
by the way, Penny, they're good ones, all right. Is
a fart like a Swedish method for training distance runners
by varying pace and terrain, or be a small species
of antelope closely related to the dicticum I'm gonna go
with tonight. Sound like they should be related, alright, but
(30:33):
it's actually a Swedish distance training that she needs to
get three correct to to win the big prize. So
let's do one more. Sac butt s A C K
hyphen butt alright, alright, here we go. Is it a
the fourteenth century ancestor of the modern trombones, sometimes called
a sag butt, or be a Viking table used for
(30:55):
formal banquets. It is well, you did what what? What
does she want? Mango? Well, she's allegible for our top prize,
which is our endless admiration. Oh my god. Congratulations Penny. Well, Penny,
keep up the great work. We remain huge fans of
(31:16):
new scientists. Thanks so much for joining us, and we
hope to talk to you again. Thanks very much. Thanks
by Welcome back to part time Genius. So before the break,
(31:39):
Penny Sarche was chatting about the hygiene sweet spot, that
is keeping your house clean but not too clean. It's
kind of a Guildylocks approach exactly. Since I wanted to
know what to watch out for, I got curious about
the dirtiest places. And here are a few things I
found so at home. The walls around your toilet, you know,
you just kind of imagine it's the toilet, and it's
actually the falls around our toilet. The kitchen sponge, the
(32:02):
kitchen sink drain, the cutting board is a really nasty one.
That toothbrush cup where everybody keeps their toothbrushes. So some
of these places that you don't immediately think about. And
one of the huge ones the remote control. Now in hotels,
two of the nastiest places are the remote control, which,
of course you'll no longer have to deal with thanks
to our patented part time genius remote control condoms. You
(32:25):
should see these on shelf soon and the bedside lamp switch.
I never would have guessed the lamp switch me either.
So what about airplanes? What do you think is consistently
the dirtiest place on a plane that twisty thing you
put to turn to put on the air or maybe
the drinks page with the airline magazine. That's say, that's
a pretty specific page, and I'm guessing it's not clean.
(32:47):
But the number one dirtiest thing in some studies by
surprisingly significant margin, seems to be the tray table. But yeah,
disgusting if you think about it. People are using it constantly,
folding it up and it may not get clean. And
let's get back to the idea of good bacteria. This
is something we all hear more and more about these
days because of probiotics, varieties of yogurt, and the grocery store.
(33:08):
As a side note here, recently I saw a list
of the ways you can annoy people in your office,
and number one on that list of ways was to
stand behind a coworker with a cup of that fruit
on the bottom yogurt and just stir it up. That
that sounds, do you make that list? Make that list
on the author of that list. So there's definitely a
(33:29):
lot to talk about with probiotics. And that's because the
gut flora is really important. And it's important because it
keeps you regular, like you don't want to be constated.
But the thousand different bacteria and there also have a
direct impact on your brain, and studies have shown strong
links between anxiety, depression, even autism, and it's all linked
to your gut flora. But and here's the important part,
(33:51):
what you put in their matters. Like in two thousand thirteen,
the medical journal gastro and Trology published a paper where
women ate yogurt twice a day and the probiotics changed
the makeup of their gut flora and actually made them
calmer and happier under stress tests. That's fascinating. Now, speaking
of things we eat, it reminded me of what might
be too clean. And I've got to tell you, I
(34:12):
was thirty seven years old before I ever washed a banana. Banana, yep,
why would you wash one? So one of my daughter's
friends refused to eat a banana from our house until
I washed it, because she said, my mom always washes
my banana. Well, if you're recommending it, I guess we should.
But let's answer the question of how clean is too clean?
(34:33):
Obviously you should keep washing those hands and bananas and
pay attention to the dirty stereas of your house, the
things we touch a lot, like the light switches and
remote controls and cutting boards. But also, what's the best
thing you can do to expose yourself to a wider
variety of good bacteria. It's to spend more time outside, which,
of course we're recommending from a room with no windows.
I love it, speaking of things, I love. You know
(34:54):
what time it is, Well, yep, it's time for the
fact off, where we share all the things we learned
this week that we didn't get a chance to mentioned.
But before we do that, we should probably give out
our genius Award. Who do you think deserves that honor today?
I think we've got to give it to miss Goldie Lippman,
who came up with the idea of go Joe the
pre pure l. I agree. I mean she passed away
in the seventies, but we're going to add it to
our Hall of Genius and send the company a certificate
(35:16):
that they could hang on their office bulletin board. So congratulations, Goldie.
I'm for that. But back back to the fact off MS.
We like to say on the part of north central
Alabama where I grew up, you first, So here's a
(35:37):
fact for you. There's a guy named Jasper Lawrence who
had severe allergies, like his eyes would swell up to
the point where he couldn't see. He had intense trouble breathing,
and he decided the only way he could get his
body to stop attacking itself was to give it something
to attack. So, and this is the part I love.
He went to Cameroon and he intentionally walked around barefoot
(35:58):
in areas where people went to the bathroom, I know,
and the reason was to give himself hookworm. And then
he started this internet business selling hookworms to relieve people
with crones and other autoimmune disorders, which may actually work
but comes with all sorts of f d A and
postal service complications. I like to imagine the conversation where
he's like, honey, I tried the flown as it didn't work,
(36:19):
So I'm gonna move on to hookworms. So there's a
psychologist from Cornell, David Pizzarro, who studies the notion of disgust.
And in one of his experiments, he had students fill
out a survey on their political beliefs. And most of
them were just filling out surveys in a crowded hallway.
But then he relocated a few of the groups next
to a hand sanitizer dispenser, and when he did, those
(36:41):
groups reportedly came back more conservative. And he found this
over and over in studies, whether it was signs about
washing hands, or sanitizer or the presence of handwipes. Wherever
there was a subtle reminder of physical purity, it made
a respondent more conservative than they might have otherwise been.
That's crazy. So remember how we Inhale fifty to sixty
(37:02):
milligrams of dirt today. So one of the things I
love is that the Japanese government has been organizing these
things called forest baths. That's what they're called. And forest
baths are basically guided tours on destressing. A guide will
teach you how to break open the twin of sassafras.
And Inhale and appreciate nature and generally be more mindful.
And part of it is just reminding people how easy
(37:23):
it is to get in nature preserves. But I kind
of love this idea that if you're going to inhale
fifty milligrams of dirt today, let's pick where that dirt's
coming from. Okay, I like that idea too. I've got
another one here, IBM processed water. Have you heard of this?
So one of the weird things is that instead of
using solutions to clean their chips, IBM actually uses this
ultra pure water, that's what it's called. They process their
(37:46):
water so many times, over fourteen times that it has
no specks of dirt or particles, so that it doesn't
scratch the chip. But the same thing that makes it
great for cleaning also makes it harmful for the body.
So like in its truest form, water will leach nutrients
toward it from other substances, and so even though it's
really really ultra pure, it's actually too clean to drink,
(38:08):
Like drinking will actually hurt your body. That's crazy. So
there's a great Sean Bradley story that I promised relates.
This is Sean Bradley, the basketball player. Yeah, and and
so esco, I asked him what it feels like to
be seven ft six, and you just generally feel miserable
for the guy and his answers like he can't buy
normal clothes, he can't buy a regular sleeping bag, you
can't buy a regular car. I mean, you realize this
(38:30):
world is not fit for anyone his size. But the
worst thing he said about being that tall is that
when you're seven ft six, you're looking down on everything
and everything is dirty now. So we're seeing like ceiling
fans and tops of fridges and lockers and everything is
just gross. And as a short dude, that's not something
i'd really ever think about. Oh yeah, I never thought
(38:51):
about that at all. That's it must be really gross.
So all right, pandas, let's talk about pandas. So pandas
seem completely useless, right, but they have a bacteria in
their stomach that can reduce the mass and volume of
garbage by which is great because anytime you don't want
to take your trash out, you should be able to
rent a pan at a squad on your rubbers. And
it feels like another great business idea. I like it. So,
(39:13):
speaking of what's too clean. The Mona Lisa has actually
been cleaned too often. And you know, when you picture
the Mona Lisa, you might remember she has almost non
existent eyebrows and super light lashes. But that wasn't always
the case, like she used to have thick brows, and
our analysis actually showed that all that hair got thinned
and trimmed over the years because the painting has been
(39:34):
cleaned too much. Okay, all right, that's a good one.
I'm going to give it to you win the battle
this time, but I'll be back with some wild tangents
next time. That's it for today's Part Time Genius. Thanks
so much for listening. Thanks again for listening to our
(40:00):
Time Genius. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to
your podcast, And because we're a brand new show, if
you're feeling extra generous, we'd love it if you give
us a rating on Apple Podcast. Part Time Genius is
produced by some of our favorite geniuses. It's edited by
Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing by Noel Brown.
Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our research team is
Gabe Lousier, Lucas Adams, Autumn Whitefield, The Toronto Austin Thompson
(40:22):
and Meg Robbins. Jason Hok is our chief cheerleader.
Guess what mango? What's that will? So I was traveling
last week and as I go through security, I'm waiting
on my bag to be scanned, and I catch this
strong whiff of pure and it reminded me to pull
mine out, because there's something about all this stuff going
in and out of bins that really grosses me out.
But then I realized mine wasn't on me. So I
looked at the end of the moving belt and I
saw there was a dispenser. I walk over and I
(00:20):
put some of that magic on my hands. Ten feet
after that, there was another dispenser. Suddenly I started noticing
these things everywhere I could have gone swimming, and all
the hand sanitizer available to me. It's something so present
in our lives. My son just calls it hand sand hands,
and I hope that takes off me too. And it
made me wonder how did hand sanitizer becomes such a thing.
(00:41):
And it turns out it goes all the way back
to this woman named Goldie Lippmann who worked at a
rubber plant in the forties. At the time, workers would
use benzine to get carbon off their hands, which is
super harsh. So Goldie and her husband Jerry, invented a
more gentle, waterless cleaner. It's this classic startup story. They
lived in their parents attict. They mixed up test batches
and the laundry machine, and then they packaged it in
(01:02):
pickle jars. That's right, so artisical, I know. But then
they tried to sell the stuff and it didn't go
so well. How come? Well, no one wanted to try
this goopy stuff, So Jerry came up with a sales trick.
Just before meeting. He scored a little dab on his palm.
Then when someone would shake his hand, they'd get startled
because who wants to feel this cold, wet glob and
(01:23):
a handshake. It's pretty gross, I know. But as they
rubbed it to get it off, the factory stains would
vanish from inside their palms, which I guess. It's pretty smart.
It's genius, I think. And so this is the proto
purell and today hand sanitizers are everywhere, But looking at
all the hands sand around us, it got me wondering
are we being overprotective? How clean should we be? And
(01:46):
that's the question we're tackling on Today's Part Time Genius
Say their podcast listeners, I'm Will Pearson and as always
(02:08):
I'm joined by my good friend man Gesh Ticketer, and
you're listening to part Time Genius now today I can
barely recognize man Gesh because he's currently wrapped in plastic
wrapped from the office kitchen. Any reeks of hand sanitizers?
Did I used too much? I mean, maybe a little. Well,
I know Purell is more your thing, but ever since
doing all this research on germs this week, I think
of making it my signature scent. Like how prints always
(02:29):
smell like lavender. I can't say that I was aware
of that. Yeah, used to smell like heavy, heavy lavender,
and his friends used to say that they could smell
his presence like a full minute before he entered the room.
So you'd be sitting there and you'd feel this hit
of lavender and then oh, you can just appear like
an angel. Anyway, after this week, I'm thinking of doing
that with Purel. I think that's a that's a brilliant plan, Mango.
(02:52):
But you know what's interesting, and I realized we're going
deep on hand sanitizer before this episode even starts. But
one of the things customers always indicate is a preference
for unscented sanitizers, but when hand sanitizer companies came out
with more a few years ago, not only did customers
not by the fragrance reversions, but there was concern in
the health community that people weren't applying enough of it
(03:13):
to really kill the germs. Well, I'm pretty sure I
use enough of it. I would agree with that. But
speaking of our research this week, we were reminded yet
again that science is weird because it feels like we're
always reading these contradictory reports. It's healthy to drink wine
one week, then it's not healthy to drink wine. It's
healthy to drink coffee, it's not healthy to drink coffee.
You know, it turns out it's not healthy to smoke
(03:35):
a bucket full of cigarettes. That that is how they
sell cigarettes now today. Still, yeah, you want to get
them by the top, that's the super cool thing to do.
And it feels like studies on germs are the same way.
I mean, we know it's good to be clean, but
we also hear reports that tell us to quit trying
to kill every germ out there. Speaking of which, before
we fully dive into this, I know we can both
(03:56):
be a little germophobic, mango, But what's one thing you
do it was a germophobe that you'd be embarrassed to admit.
I know. For me, it's that as soon as I
walk into a hotel room, I look for the free
shower cap and the bathroom or the plastic bag and
the ice bucket to slip over the remote control so
like a remote control condom. Oh yeah, I love it.
So we've known each other for almost twenty years now,
(04:18):
and I'm not sure you know this, but I won't
take a sip out of a drink someone else has
been drinking from. I know. And it's not just germophobic,
it's cultural. Like in India, the tap water is un drinkable,
so families tend to keep big glass bottles filled with
purified water on tables. They're communal and they're just filled
and ready to drink from. So it's a four year
(04:38):
old you learned to pour water from one or two
inches above your mouth, so you're never actually touching your
lips to it. And it's all because you don't want
to spread germs, Like if you've touched your lips to it,
then you've ruined it for everyone else. But and this
is the weird part, and it's hard for me to
say out loud, but even if my wife sees me
drinking a bottle of root beer and just takes a swig,
I can't drink it out, Like I really can't drink it.
(05:00):
I have to force myself. And so that's my big secret.
Like my sister and I both, it's this weird mixture
of like Indian politeness and germophoben nous and sort of
where those things then diagram. I think this is really
the kind of thing you shouldn't admit, not because it's
that embarrassing, but because friends love to mess with you
on things like this. It's like when friends find out
that I can't stand for my nose to be touched.
(05:21):
It makes me dizzy, and then they just think it's
so funny to walk up and tappy right on the
button knows that's right now. We also wanted our podcast
listeners to share some of their more embarrassing germophobic moments
on Facebook. So if you're up for sharing, contribute your
story to our Facebook page and we'll be mailing out
a big and ridiculous prize to our favorite three stories.
What What what's the prize again, I can't tell you.
(05:43):
This is gonna be huge, so big can't win. But
let's talk about this recent cover story and New Scientists.
You know this is one of my favorite magazines. I mean, honestly,
how many times a day do I mention my love
of New Scientists? Conservatively, maybe I'd say at least yeah.
So Penny Sarche, a biomedical news editor for New Scientists,
which we've established I love, and who's going to be
(06:04):
joining us a little later today, wrote a story titled
Germ Warfare, and and it she talks about this struggle
of trying to figure out how clean is too clean,
because we know good hygiene helps prevent infection and the
spread of disease, but we also know they're definitely good
bacteria that keep us well. But let's back up a
little bit. So in the late eighties and early nineties,
many researchers really started to get behind the theory that
(06:26):
kids were developing allergies later because they were avoiding so
many infections early in life, and they had plenty of
evidence to point to like kids are less likely to
develop allergies or asthma if they grew up on a farm,
or grew up with a dog, or if their parents
washed dishes by hand. I mean, we're a dishwasher family.
Some white kids are screwed. Definitely us too. But oh,
here's a really gross one. Are you ready for this?
(06:47):
You might want to gargle a little more purele before
I read this up. So Sarch says a two thousand
fourteen paper that found that children are less likely to
develop precursors to asthma if in their first year they're
exposed to particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches. It makes
you wonder if they'll eventually develop a powder made of
cat hair, mice tails, and cockroach faces that you sprinkle
(07:10):
on your kid. Cockroach faces. I don't know why it
has to be faces, but it just seemed all of
it was gross. We can't even imagine that. Actually, I
read this piece in the l A Times about Amish
families and their homes because the kids tend to have
considerably less asthma. And scientists actually took dust from regular
homes and then dust from Amish households, and when they
sprinkled the Amish dust in front of mice's noses, it
(07:31):
tended to protect the mice's airways from allergens, which is
so crazy, so amish dust. It's like a new business idea,
we are going to be so rich. Actually, do you
know who was really dirty and probably didn't have much
as I can't wait for the answer on this one.
What a setup, right? For some reason I got stuck
in a rabbit hole about royalty and according to the economist,
(07:53):
kings from France and England in the fifteen hundreds and
sixteen hundreds were the dirtiest, like they believe hot water
was the devil and that they could open up your
pores and let all sorts of illness in. So here.
A few stories I found like Francis Henry the fourth
famously stunk of quote sweat stables feet and Garland Louis
(08:15):
the eighth didn't have his first bath until he was seven.
Oh God, Versailles for all the glamorous laboratories, like washing
with water wasn't even a concern. And England's James the
First never bathe. He only washed his fingertips, just just
the tips. That is so gross. But unfortunately, being healthy
and living forever isn't as simple as just saying okay,
(08:35):
let's be dirtier. But before we dig into that, how
about we break for a quiz. Sounds smart, So, Mengo,
who do we have on the line to play today?
So he's got two lab scientists. Their names are Bertha
and Umish, and Umish is a special guest. That's right, Mash,
(08:59):
Welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. So you knows
was a chemical engineer who worked on several agriculture products
over the years. But I heard that you actually first
got interested in chemistry and experiments by baking bread with
your dad as a kid in India. Is this true?
Or is Mango just making stuff up as usual? You
used to make the cloth and we had to modify
(09:21):
it for gluten and other things to make it sure
it rose and reacted to the east. That's wonderful, that's
really neat. What a great way to be introduced to
the science. Is so. And our second guest, Bertha is
at the University of Alabama, Birmingham. Bertha, Welcome to the show. Hi,
thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit what
you do at U A B. So, I'm a genetic
(09:43):
epigeeologist and um that does not mean that I study
skin diseases. I study genetics and um type two diabetes
and a b CD and cardiovascular disease, and try and
figure out what environmental exposures can change some of our
genetic outcomes. Oh wow, very cool. Yeah, we do the
(10:04):
same thing, but Mango and I are both really into
that kind of expert on the side. Yeah, speaking of
on the side, I understand that when you first got
into the field, you weren't quite making enough money to
make ends meet, so you would ballroom dance to bring
in additional money. Is this true? I did? I am
responsible for many a wedding first dance choreography. Yes, yeah,
(10:29):
it was a lot of fun. Well cool, Well best
the best science is very collaborative science. So we've decided
to let you to team up for this quiz. Now
what are we playing, Mengo. We're playing a game called
clean Sweep. Okay, all right, Now, normally we would try
to make some sort of tangential connection, like being lab scientists,
you're very good at sanitizing things. But we want to
be honest with you here. We just found a lot
(10:50):
of words that rhymed with clean and turned them into
quiz questions. So this is how it works. We're going
to give you a clue, and then you say the
word clean before the example. So this is so stupid, Mango.
You're the best at these awful cluses. Alright, so give
us a sample, Mango. So the reason we wear costumes
on October thirty one, you would say clean Halloween, right?
(11:14):
Or Elizabeth the second title in England, you might say
clean Queen? Right? All right? You guys that you guys
got it? Okay, so here we go. We're gonna let
you guys go one at a time, but you're working together,
and if one of you doesn't get it, you can
toss it to the other person. So, Bertha, we will
start with you. Question number one. A stretched out car
(11:35):
that glamorous people get to drive in. Oh uh, clean
limousine for one mesh an underwater vessel the Beatles sang
about you got it all right, Bertha. A jingle jangle
hand instrument. Bob Dylan asked a man to play in
the song Oh My Goodness and my Dad as a
(11:56):
backup singer in a Rolling Stones band and call it
might know this all right, let's hear it. It's a
jingle jangle hand instrument. It would be a clean tambourine
that's okay, alright, who matched? This is back to you
the thing you mix with ginger ale in a Shirley
(12:18):
Temple queen grenade felt their Bertha, Okay, this one's back
to you, alright. A character with adamantium clause from the
X Men. It's also the University of Michigan mascot. We're
just gonna throw them out. Let either one of you answer.
Here we go, number number six. You guys have gotten
(12:41):
five out of six, so you're in good shape. A
colorful easter candy, the Easter bunny might leave for you.
A colorful candy the Easter Bunny might leave for you.
You got it, Bertha, well done, alright. Question number seven
two left a method of execution that arose during the
French Revolution. The last time one was used and was
in France in nineteen seventy seven. Got a nice job,
(13:05):
last one, all right? Former star of Two and a
Half Men, brother to Amelio Estevez. Oh gosh, it's got
a dad named Martin. Yes, clean, Charlie Sheen, I don't
think really exists. So it's ath So how many do they?
(13:27):
How many they get? Right? Mango? So they got seven
out of eight and of course that means they win
the big prize, which is a note to your mom,
your boss written from us, which is, you know, finally
the validation you've been looking for. Wow, what a great prize.
Congratulations guys. So we're talking about the question how clean
(13:54):
is too clean? And before the break we were discussing
how a little more dirt in our lives might be
a key to healthier live thing. But for anyone who
heard that and decided to start licking the floor, pull
yourself together. It's a little more complicated than that, although
it is a little of that, right, Like, one of
the things I'm fascinated by is that we ingest fifty
to sixty milligrams of soil a day, and that little
bit of dirt might be helping us be healthier. Like,
(14:17):
scientists also think playing quote social sports can help and
will I know, we like to have debates about what
a sport is, like is Badman really a sports? Please
don't get me started off. I know you have some
super strong feelings. But what's important here is where we're
getting our daily bacteria from could actually play a big
role in our health, right, I mean, the reality is
some bacteria are good, some are bad. So it's more
(14:39):
about understanding our dada microbiome. Now you're probably wondering what
a microbiome is, And for the super condensed version, let's
turn to our microbiome correspondent. Oh wait, that's you. You're
you're a microbiome correspondent. Ban of congratulations. All right, okay,
talk to me. I can talk to microbiomes. So let's
stuff back as that. And we humans like to think
(15:01):
of ourselves as individuals, right, like we've got big egos.
But the truth is there as many non human cells
in our body as human cells, and because they're all
working with us, playing a vital role in our body's success,
in some ways, it's more important to think of your
body like a super organism, almost like a colony of
ants all working together, or even a slime mold, like
(15:22):
all pulling in one direction. I know it's gross, right,
but that analogy doesn't even go far enough. In fact,
your body is more like a rainforest, and each of
the thousands of bacterial species inside you is precisely built
for a specific environment. Like the bacteria and your stomach
would die if it moved to your small intestine, and
the small intestine stuff would struggle if it was placed
(15:43):
in the big intestine. Like, it's actually that complicated. As
one of my science writer friends told me, humans are
more closely related to C squirts than these microbacteria are
to one another. Yeah, And another way to think about
how diverse your body is is to like take a
look at your left hand in your right hand. Your
hands feel like they should be the same, right, but
of the thousands of bacteria on there, your left hand
(16:05):
and right hand might only share one in six microbial species.
Like how bizarre is that crazy? Right? So scientists are
isolating these microbes and understanding their superpowers. They're also considering
how to hack the bacteria and use it to human advantage.
Like in Sweden, doctors at a hospital noticed that their
pneumonia patients were getting infections from feeding tubes and the
(16:27):
patients were having a harsh reaction to the antibacterial sprays.
So the doctors looked at this bacteria in your saliva
called lacto basilious plantarum, and it's this probiotic that helps
you break down food in your saliva. And when they
spread the culture inside their patients mounts and on the
feeding tubes, it actually stopped the infections like no side effects.
(16:50):
So scientists have been using the Human Microbiome Project to
crack the code and map out all over microbiota. What
one crazy thing about microbiomes is that scientists used to
think that how bay bees were born might affect it,
like c sections. In particular, they thought might be creating
a different type and perhaps less healthy baby than straight
vaginal deliveries. But it turns out that isn't true. I
(17:10):
mean it's true initially, but by six weeks the differences
aren't even detectable, which is pretty crazy because kids aren't
crawling around then. But the colonies just grow so fast
in the mouth and on the skin and then the
gut that they don't need that much exposure to grow
these distinct colonies all over their bodies. I know, I
think if toddlers being dirty, but not really babies dirty babies.
(17:31):
But the lesson is, in general, it's healthiest to have
a wider range of microbes. So it's not quite true
to say that getting more infections as a child makes
us healthier later. It's really the exposure to different bacteria,
and almost exclusively exposure at a very early age. I mean,
we're talking before the age of three, that's when it's
pretty much set. I mean, you know, as my mom
(17:51):
used to say, once your microbiome is set, your microbiome
is set. She's right, you gotta set in forget it
like a firm, not like a or permanent. As my
grandfather would say. People still get perms. That a thing
they will now, So that means the bad news for
all those who were excited to start skipping your chores
and stop washing your hands and bathing. It doesn't mean
(18:12):
you should stop doing any of those things. Well, one shore,
I mean, I've read a bunch of these reports and
they all said the same thing. Don't make your bed.
And can I tell you one thing, sure, I hate
this advice so much, like making my bed is the
one thing I do. It makes my room look orderly.
But even though I hate saying this, an unmade bed
is healthier because it exposes the dust mites in your
(18:35):
bed sheets to sunlight and fresh air, which you know
kills them off and helps your allergies. Man, the kids
are going to really love this episode. So don't mother
making your bed. I'm behind that. But where should we
be cutting back? Now Here? A few places antibacterial soaps.
I mean, we've been seeing for a couple of decades
now that when we killed too much of the good bacteria,
the undesirable bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics, which could be dangerous. Also,
(18:59):
clean products indoor pollution from all the cleaning supplies and
chemicals in them. The most harmful ones are often the
ones being used just to produce a good smell, So
instead you should clean with things like vinegar and other
products that you'd feel comfortable cooking with. Yeah. So I
was actually looking into this because my family tries to
use mostly organic cleaning products for a kid's sake, And
when I was googling what you can do to reduce
(19:21):
the chemical sense in your home, one of the things
that comes up is a list of recommendations from NASA.
From NASA, Yeah, I just learned this, but every year
NASA issues a list of the best plants to help
purify your home, and they've been doing clear air studies
since the eighties because the agency wants to know what's
the best way to clean the air and space stations.
So this list of preferred plants as things like the
(19:42):
peace lily, which can eliminate traces of formaldehyde and benzene
and pneumonia. But it's also toxic to dogs, which is
kind of a big trade off, right, like peace dogs
between clear air and this plant. It's all plant. But
the crazier thing to me is this red inundation on
the ideal number of plants you should have in your house.
(20:03):
And can you guess what it is? I don't know.
Four it's one plant for a hundred square feet. Like
I live in a tiny, super small apartment with a
wife and two kids, and now I have to share
it with a tiny forest, like just to breathe the air.
I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. That's
so speaking of our homes and finding that perfect balance
of clean, Penny Sarchet describes a science approved hygiene sweet spot,
(20:27):
So that is, you're not looking to completely sterilize your home.
It's more about focusing on getting rid of harmful bacteria
in places. This bacteria is most likely to be in
places we come into contact with, so kitchen surfaces, door knobs,
bathroom light switches. But as long as we're talking about Penny,
what do you say? We get around the phone and
give her a little quiz and that sounds great. All right,
(20:54):
So we've been talking about new scientists a lot and
how much we love new scientists. And you know how
excited I because we have a biomedical news editor joining
us today, Penny Sarsha. She's going to uh talk to
us about her article and a few other questions that
we have, but also to play one of your ridiculous games.
She may regret this visit. What's the game we're gonna
be playing? Not so dirty words? Okay? All right, well
(21:17):
we'll find out more about that in a bit. But Penny,
welcome to Part Time Genius. Hi. Thank you so much
for writing the story and for joining us. I I
do have to start up by asking you about this
quote that, to be honest, kind of made me feel
nauseous when I read it. So you were talking about
a two thousand fourteen paper that found that children are
less likely to develop asthma or precursors DASM. I guess
(21:39):
you said in their first year if they're exposed to
particles from cats, mice, and cockroaches. What do we do?
What do we do about this? Penny? I know it's
really grand, isn't it. I think the difficult thing is
you can measure these things and find me association, but
working out like the coolisation and what that actually means,
like is a cockroach particle good for a child. It's
(22:03):
an entirely different experiment and one that you're not ever
going to do, so I wouldn't aim to have a
stiff be home, But I think the best way to
see that kind of thing is more an indication that
it's not as simple as let's just be dirty or
let's just be clean. And I think some of the
further research that I did after coming across that paper
(22:24):
kind of suggested that these things, like the fact that
you were exposed to cat hair, also meant you were
probably exposed to other things related to the cat. So
it might not be in the cat hair or even
the cat fe sees that you may have come into
contact with. It's the fact that the cat might have
been bringing soil into your home, for example, and perhaps
some of the bacterian soil are really good for preventing
(22:47):
asma and young infants. But it's just it came out
as this quite disgusting correlation in the study. Yeah, I'm
glad to know that it's not necessarily the cat feces
that you said, that's that's like that. So, Kenny, I
thought you did a really nice job of describing a
clean sweet spot in your article, and I was just
curious if you could just describe that for our listeners
(23:07):
a little bit. Yeah, it's quite helpful for me too. Um.
So it's basically almost like a priority system. So you
should really focus on being clean at the most important
sites and places in your home and at the most
important times, and that stops you from spreading infection and
getting sick. But it also means you're not spending your
(23:29):
entire life needlessly cleaning your home from top to bottom.
So the places we're talking about, you know, certaining kitchen
sstaces and cooking, but also in the touch points, so
light switches, doorn or like taps as well, and just
things that you touch a lot, and you might pass
things onto who you're living with. And then in terms
(23:51):
of times, it's obviously when you go to the bathroom
and when you're cooking and when you're eating, but also
if someone is sick in the house, you might want
to be unpup how clean you are and how often
you've clean down these touch points, because if someone in
your family has noura virus and it's growing up regularly,
you're obviously at much higher risk of spreading things around
(24:12):
the home and the family. Then say, you know, you've
got a clean bill of health and no one's obviously ill.
The whole study around the microbiome is just so fascinating,
and it feels like we're still so early and understanding
the microbiome. What what kinds of things are you guys
thinking about it new scientists right now, or things you
think will be able to better treat as we as
(24:33):
we better understand the microbiome. Well, So it's so difficult
to know because there's just endless conditions that seem to
be linked in some way to the microbiome, like everything
from Albioman's to obesity, and we're still really only sort
of unraveling those links, and we're still quite a long
way from working out how usefully we can use this um.
(24:54):
But I haven't stopped lots of people from already developing
like sprays and treatment and all kinds of things you
can buy online to kind of change the bacteria and
your skin or in your gut, And we don't really
know whether there's work yet and if so, how there
are a few things we know. So in some places,
fecal transplant, so that really is just a transplant of
(25:16):
pooh is allowed or has been approved of the treatment
for se differentials, which is a bacterial infection that is
really difficult to get rid of once you've got it.
So that's kind of they're quite a landmark in that
respect that it's actually being used as a treatment there.
But there are people out there who are just going
ahead and doing transplants of pooh themselves in an unregulated way,
(25:41):
and from some kinds of studies like this, there are
kind of early anctotes and warning signs that this is
obviously much more complex than we really know yet because
there's so many species of bacteria and we don't know
what they're doing. Um, so there's some evidence that maybe
if you were to receive the transplant from someone you
is a beast, that might actually make you more likely
(26:03):
to become a beast, and these kinds of interesting effects
that start happening when you play around with your microbiome.
So yeah, it's really any days. And the other thing
we don't really know is beyond something drastic like if
people transplant, can you really even change your microbiome beyond
beyond the age of about three. Maybe you're obviously go
through a lot of changes this first few years of life.
(26:25):
But once your body has been colonized by whichever bacteria
come on in, can you really kind of shift it
much more in a healthier or less healthy direction. We
don't really know that yet, you know. One thing I
was curious about was whether your behavior has changed since
working on this article, Like, when was the last time
you wash your hands? Yeah, I'm still a fan of
(26:45):
washing my hands. I did the toilet before speaking to you,
so they're very keen right now. But yeah, handslessing, I
haven't changed. I was hoping actually for an excuse to
wash my hands left being a clean freak, but actually
speaking into the food hygiene and home hygiene experts who
are telling me about how many people get food poisoning
(27:05):
in their homes every year, that actually gave me no
excuse to cut back at all. But we've got a
garden flat that we're in and out all the time
with bikes and plants and things, and so much of
what I'm speaking to some of the people about soil
and dirt and just being outside. I'm a lot more relaxed. Now,
if we kind of walk soil in just sweep at
us and they need to kind of really thoroughly clean
(27:28):
the floor or anything like that. Um, I think the
only thing there that would be really wearing was if
we had a baby that was cooling around and licking
the floor. If they want to do that would be
slightly mooring, but that's not what I do. All right, Well,
thank you for talking about how to be clean, and
we want to put you to the test if you're
willing to stick around and play a game of what
did you say? The game was called it's called Not
(27:49):
So Dirty Words, and it's a game we expressly wrote
for you since you're a clean expert. Here's how it works.
We're going to take one word that sounds dirty and
give you two definition and all you have to do
is tell us which one is the real one. Does
that make sense? Yeah? Alright, here we go. Word number
one is formication. That's not with an inn but an
(28:13):
M as in Michael. Formication. Does it mean a a
sensation like insects crawling on your skin? Or be the
word veterinarians used for the tartar build up on a
goat's teeth. Formication, that's a tough one. I think I'm
going to go with a formication insects because of maybe
(28:34):
you're absolutely absolutely she's all on also an insects expert. Alright,
this is a number two. This is where did you
find these mango? This is ridiculous? Alright? Number two? Did
you make this up? Is this a real thing? Okay?
Tortis maximus okay is Trtis maximus a broad shield volcano
that forms in the middle of oceanic plates, or the
(28:58):
Latin name for the Tibetan blackbird found in the Himalayas
in Pakistan. Tortois maximus. Is it a volcano or a blackbird?
I'd like to think if it was a bird it
would sound for more familiar, although I can't remember what
blackbird is right now. I'm going to go with a volcano.
It's it's actually the blackbird. It's a member of the
(29:21):
thrush family. Oh, of course, if we had just given
her that hand that it was a member of the
thrush family, nailed it. So Number three. Our soul spelled
a R. S O l e is our soul, a
Hawaiian term for meat harvested from the tender coconut, or
be a ring shaped arsenic based organic compound. Is it
(29:46):
a word for the meat harvested from the tender coconut
or a ring shaped arsenic based organic compound. I can't
tell if it's a red herring or not, but as
surely yes, well done, Okay, let's do I'm just having
too much fun. Let's let's keep going, all right, the
next one fartlick f A R T L e K.
(30:07):
You can use these words in your articles in the future,
by the way, Penny, they're good ones, all right. Is
a fart like a Swedish method for training distance runners
by varying pace and terrain, or be a small species
of antelope closely related to the dicticum I'm gonna go
with tonight. Sound like they should be related, alright, but
(30:33):
it's actually a Swedish distance training that she needs to
get three correct to to win the big prize. So
let's do one more. Sac butt s A C K
hyphen butt alright, alright, here we go. Is it a
the fourteenth century ancestor of the modern trombones, sometimes called
a sag butt, or be a Viking table used for
(30:55):
formal banquets. It is well, you did what what? What
does she want? Mango? Well, she's allegible for our top prize,
which is our endless admiration. Oh my god. Congratulations Penny. Well, Penny,
keep up the great work. We remain huge fans of
(31:16):
new scientists. Thanks so much for joining us, and we
hope to talk to you again. Thanks very much. Thanks
by Welcome back to part time Genius. So before the break,
(31:39):
Penny Sarche was chatting about the hygiene sweet spot, that
is keeping your house clean but not too clean. It's
kind of a Guildylocks approach exactly. Since I wanted to
know what to watch out for, I got curious about
the dirtiest places. And here are a few things I
found so at home. The walls around your toilet, you know,
you just kind of imagine it's the toilet, and it's
actually the falls around our toilet. The kitchen sponge, the
(32:02):
kitchen sink drain, the cutting board is a really nasty one.
That toothbrush cup where everybody keeps their toothbrushes. So some
of these places that you don't immediately think about. And
one of the huge ones the remote control. Now in hotels,
two of the nastiest places are the remote control, which,
of course you'll no longer have to deal with thanks
to our patented part time genius remote control condoms. You
(32:25):
should see these on shelf soon and the bedside lamp switch.
I never would have guessed the lamp switch me either.
So what about airplanes? What do you think is consistently
the dirtiest place on a plane that twisty thing you
put to turn to put on the air or maybe
the drinks page with the airline magazine. That's say, that's
a pretty specific page, and I'm guessing it's not clean.
(32:47):
But the number one dirtiest thing in some studies by
surprisingly significant margin, seems to be the tray table. But yeah,
disgusting if you think about it. People are using it constantly,
folding it up and it may not get clean. And
let's get back to the idea of good bacteria. This
is something we all hear more and more about these
days because of probiotics, varieties of yogurt, and the grocery store.
(33:08):
As a side note here, recently I saw a list
of the ways you can annoy people in your office,
and number one on that list of ways was to
stand behind a coworker with a cup of that fruit
on the bottom yogurt and just stir it up. That
that sounds, do you make that list? Make that list
on the author of that list. So there's definitely a
(33:29):
lot to talk about with probiotics. And that's because the
gut flora is really important. And it's important because it
keeps you regular, like you don't want to be constated.
But the thousand different bacteria and there also have a
direct impact on your brain, and studies have shown strong
links between anxiety, depression, even autism, and it's all linked
to your gut flora. But and here's the important part,
(33:51):
what you put in their matters. Like in two thousand thirteen,
the medical journal gastro and Trology published a paper where
women ate yogurt twice a day and the probiotics changed
the makeup of their gut flora and actually made them
calmer and happier under stress tests. That's fascinating. Now, speaking
of things we eat, it reminded me of what might
be too clean. And I've got to tell you, I
(34:12):
was thirty seven years old before I ever washed a banana. Banana, yep,
why would you wash one? So one of my daughter's
friends refused to eat a banana from our house until
I washed it, because she said, my mom always washes
my banana. Well, if you're recommending it, I guess we should.
But let's answer the question of how clean is too clean?
(34:33):
Obviously you should keep washing those hands and bananas and
pay attention to the dirty stereas of your house, the
things we touch a lot, like the light switches and
remote controls and cutting boards. But also, what's the best
thing you can do to expose yourself to a wider
variety of good bacteria. It's to spend more time outside, which,
of course we're recommending from a room with no windows.
I love it, speaking of things, I love. You know
(34:54):
what time it is, Well, yep, it's time for the
fact off, where we share all the things we learned
this week that we didn't get a chance to mentioned.
But before we do that, we should probably give out
our genius Award. Who do you think deserves that honor today?
I think we've got to give it to miss Goldie Lippman,
who came up with the idea of go Joe the
pre pure l. I agree. I mean she passed away
in the seventies, but we're going to add it to
our Hall of Genius and send the company a certificate
(35:16):
that they could hang on their office bulletin board. So congratulations, Goldie.
I'm for that. But back back to the fact off MS.
We like to say on the part of north central
Alabama where I grew up, you first, So here's a
(35:37):
fact for you. There's a guy named Jasper Lawrence who
had severe allergies, like his eyes would swell up to
the point where he couldn't see. He had intense trouble breathing,
and he decided the only way he could get his
body to stop attacking itself was to give it something
to attack. So, and this is the part I love.
He went to Cameroon and he intentionally walked around barefoot
(35:58):
in areas where people went to the bathroom, I know,
and the reason was to give himself hookworm. And then
he started this internet business selling hookworms to relieve people
with crones and other autoimmune disorders, which may actually work
but comes with all sorts of f d A and
postal service complications. I like to imagine the conversation where
he's like, honey, I tried the flown as it didn't work,
(36:19):
So I'm gonna move on to hookworms. So there's a
psychologist from Cornell, David Pizzarro, who studies the notion of disgust.
And in one of his experiments, he had students fill
out a survey on their political beliefs. And most of
them were just filling out surveys in a crowded hallway.
But then he relocated a few of the groups next
to a hand sanitizer dispenser, and when he did, those
(36:41):
groups reportedly came back more conservative. And he found this
over and over in studies, whether it was signs about
washing hands, or sanitizer or the presence of handwipes. Wherever
there was a subtle reminder of physical purity, it made
a respondent more conservative than they might have otherwise been.
That's crazy. So remember how we Inhale fifty to sixty
(37:02):
milligrams of dirt today. So one of the things I
love is that the Japanese government has been organizing these
things called forest baths. That's what they're called. And forest
baths are basically guided tours on destressing. A guide will
teach you how to break open the twin of sassafras.
And Inhale and appreciate nature and generally be more mindful.
And part of it is just reminding people how easy
(37:23):
it is to get in nature preserves. But I kind
of love this idea that if you're going to inhale
fifty milligrams of dirt today, let's pick where that dirt's
coming from. Okay, I like that idea too. I've got
another one here, IBM processed water. Have you heard of this?
So one of the weird things is that instead of
using solutions to clean their chips, IBM actually uses this
ultra pure water, that's what it's called. They process their
(37:46):
water so many times, over fourteen times that it has
no specks of dirt or particles, so that it doesn't
scratch the chip. But the same thing that makes it
great for cleaning also makes it harmful for the body.
So like in its truest form, water will leach nutrients
toward it from other substances, and so even though it's
really really ultra pure, it's actually too clean to drink,
(38:08):
Like drinking will actually hurt your body. That's crazy. So
there's a great Sean Bradley story that I promised relates.
This is Sean Bradley, the basketball player. Yeah, and and
so esco, I asked him what it feels like to
be seven ft six, and you just generally feel miserable
for the guy and his answers like he can't buy
normal clothes, he can't buy a regular sleeping bag, you
can't buy a regular car. I mean, you realize this
(38:30):
world is not fit for anyone his size. But the
worst thing he said about being that tall is that
when you're seven ft six, you're looking down on everything
and everything is dirty now. So we're seeing like ceiling
fans and tops of fridges and lockers and everything is
just gross. And as a short dude, that's not something
i'd really ever think about. Oh yeah, I never thought
(38:51):
about that at all. That's it must be really gross.
So all right, pandas, let's talk about pandas. So pandas
seem completely useless, right, but they have a bacteria in
their stomach that can reduce the mass and volume of
garbage by which is great because anytime you don't want
to take your trash out, you should be able to
rent a pan at a squad on your rubbers. And
it feels like another great business idea. I like it. So,
(39:13):
speaking of what's too clean. The Mona Lisa has actually
been cleaned too often. And you know, when you picture
the Mona Lisa, you might remember she has almost non
existent eyebrows and super light lashes. But that wasn't always
the case, like she used to have thick brows, and
our analysis actually showed that all that hair got thinned
and trimmed over the years because the painting has been
(39:34):
cleaned too much. Okay, all right, that's a good one.
I'm going to give it to you win the battle
this time, but I'll be back with some wild tangents
next time. That's it for today's Part Time Genius. Thanks
so much for listening. Thanks again for listening to our
(40:00):
Time Genius. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to
your podcast, And because we're a brand new show, if
you're feeling extra generous, we'd love it if you give
us a rating on Apple Podcast. Part Time Genius is
produced by some of our favorite geniuses. It's edited by
Tristan McNeil, theme song and audio mixing by Noel Brown.
Our executive producer is Jerry Rowland. Our research team is
Gabe Lousier, Lucas Adams, Autumn Whitefield, The Toronto Austin Thompson
(40:22):
and Meg Robbins. Jason Hok is our chief cheerleader.
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