April 10, 2025 • 33 mins
These fish cakes can inspire a lot of nostalgia -- and other strong opinions. Anney and Lauren dip into the science, history, and many forms of gefilte fish.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about gaffilter fish.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I think I know the answer, but any particular
reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes, as we record this, the Jewish holiday Passover is
right coming right up, and this is a dish that
is associated with Jewish holidays like Passover.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yes, and I believe I've told this story before. My
one and only experience with gafilter fish was when I
went to in college. I went to a friend of
mine's Passover. Oh, and I could tell it was a dish,
like everyone was looking at me to see how I
would react, you know, And I tried and I was like, yeah,
(00:56):
it's good, no complaints.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think if you're if you're totally unfamiliar,
sometimes American palettes aren't east to the concept of like
a fish meatball kind of kind of thing, and particularly
if it's served chilled, that might be something that you're
just slightly confused by. But but yeah, I mean, you know,
(01:22):
food is good.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, we I did, not to be fair, I did
not like a field fish when I was a kid,
and I haven't had it very often as an adult.
When I was a kid, it was just it was
too fishy for me, and right there was a texture
thing going on that I was not accustomed to and
therefore was kind of wary of. But also like my
(01:49):
family served it out of the jar, So I feel
like that might be that might have something to do
with it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have seen a lot lot of similar compellints, yeah,
which we'll talk about later. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, briefly, fast fast over passover being a feast day. Sorry,
mixed up the words feast and past. Where I liked
it is a is a feast day that is in
remembrance and and celebration of the Jewish people getting out
(02:31):
of Egypt basically, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, And you can see our past episodes on MATSA
and Lucas maybe sure also aspect horse Radish. Oh, I
like all those. That's an interesting combination. I guess that
brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I guess it does. I feel like I've got a
lot of spoilers in here, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Gefilter fish, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, gafilter fish is a type of minced fish loaf
or dumpling that can come in a lot of varieties,
but what you're basically looking at is some kind or
kinds of usually fresh water, white fleshed fish, chopped fine
and then mixed with a mazza meal or maybe breadcrumbs,
diced onion, egg and seasonings basic stuff like salt and
(03:30):
pepper and maybe sugar, and then formed into small loaves
and cooked until tender, usually in a method like poaching
or steaming that gives them a soft finish. They can
be served chilled or room temperature or warm, often as
an appetizer with a with like a horse radish sauce
like hot horse radish, often for holiday meals. When gafilter
(03:53):
fish is chilled, they gel up a bit with an
almost aspect sort of quality. When warm, they's fluffy. They're
a non crispy fish cake. They inspire some strong nostalgia
and other strong opinions for me. At their best, they're
like if you took just a spoonful of like hearty
(04:18):
clear broth fish stew and made it delicate. It's a
it's a kind of practical sort of treat. It's like
it's like pulling on a fine sweater.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I do like putting on a fine sweater.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right, yeah, yeah, uh okay. I will say at the
top here that some of these strong opinions about cafil
to fish come from people only having been exposed to
the manufactured jarred type, which tend to be like simultaneously
(04:58):
extra strongly fishy and extra soft in texture. I mean,
it's a canned dumpling, Like what do you expect? And
this is one of those cases where handmade is like
almost a different creature. Though, I like, I haven't had
the jarred kind since I was a kid, and now
I'm going, like what I like them? I like strongly
(05:19):
fishy flavors.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Anyway, Also note here that if you're unfamiliar with kosher observances,
I'm gonna mention a couple things throughout the episode, but
like that's a different episode. Like, if you're not familiar
and you're planning on cooking for someone who does keep kosher,
you should either look up kosher recipes or just ask
them what's appropriate, as with any dietary preference or restriction. Also,
(05:47):
in addition to not being scientists or dieticians, I'm not
an expert in kosher observances.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, we're experts and a couple of things, but a
lot of them surprisingly are not food based at all. Yeah,
we're learning with all of you.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
But okay, so let's unpack those ingredients first. The fish,
whatever is local and fresh and preferred can work, but
like nice, mild, flaky types of white freshwater fish are
the most common. Things like pike, carp or whitefish. Things
that are you know, like a little delicately sweet, a
(06:32):
little fishy, not too oily. Note that not all fish
are kosher. For example, catfish are not because they don't
have scales. Again, kosher stuff separate episode. Next. Fine chopped
onion and possibly other aromatic vegetables like maybe carrots can
add some flavor and some texture in there. Sometimes these
(06:53):
will be cooked before being added so that they're not
too crunchy in the final product. Egg and mozza meal
are in to bind everything together and lead to like
a light and tender texture. Mozza meal is the coarseish
ground meal made from matza, which are unlovened crackers usually
made out of wheat flour. They're good at soaking up
(07:14):
moisture and flavor, while like maintaining fluff as long as
you don't pack them too hard. Egg white proteins meanwhile,
unfurl when they're heated and then form like springy little
chains and webs that can trap moisture as well, as
long as you don't heat them too much. Further past
that point, egg yolks provide richness. Other season seasonings tend
(07:37):
to be minimal salt, pepper, maybe lemon juice or nutmeg
or something like that. Some traditions do add a bit
of sugar to play on the slight sweetness of the fish.
It's usually just a bit of sugar, like sweet like
a crab cake, not sweet like a birthday cake. Usually, again,
people have opinions. The cooking method really can vary. Like traditionally,
(08:03):
what you do is you get a whole fish, or
like a bunch of hole fish. Really, you remove the
filets and then make a fish stock using the heads
and bones plus some you know, onions, carrots, celery whatever. Meanwhile,
you find, chop the fish, mix it with the other ingredients,
and gently hand press it into like little oval dumplings
like the size of an egg or like a canal.
(08:24):
You know. Then when the stock is done, you strain
it and heat it to just poaching temperature like hot
but well under a simmer, you know, and then gently
poach the dumplings until the fish is cooked and the
egg holds everything together. At this point they can be
served warm or stored in the fridge to chill, and
then later served either directly or gently reheated. When cafilter
(08:50):
fish is chilled in a bit of that fish stock,
the stock will form up into you know, a sort
of like gela or aspec due to the gelatin in
the fish bones, you know, like a like a savory
fish broth jello kind of situation. And so when they're
served chilled, a bit of the gel is often served
(09:10):
along with the gaffelda fish. The kind of traditional or
maybe old fashioned way I guess of serving them is
with a coin of cooked carrot on top of each
piece and then an accompaniment of prepared horsepratish that is
fresh grated horsepradish with a bit of vinegar to preserve
the spiciness. Yeah, or maybe like a cold sauce made
(09:31):
with horsepratish and beets or mayo or something maybe like
on top a leaf lettuce or with sprigs of parsley
or dill. But people do all kinds of takes. I've
seen recipes for steamed cafilter fish, baked cafilter fish, gafilter
made with cold smoked fish, or with nice rich salmon.
You can form larger loaves and then slice them into
(09:53):
individual portions after cooking and or chilling. There are regional
rifts of fish cakes that are fried or that are
so with a tomato sauce or served with a lemon sauce.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I'm pretty sure I just had the traditional carrot on top.
It was cold, but it was savory. I remember that.
Yeah it was good.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I guess by themselves. It depends on how you make it,
as with any dish, you know, by themselves. Cathelta fish
are pretty good for you, you know, like decent punch of protein.
It can can be can range high in fats depending
on how you make them. But yeah, I'd say overall, yeah,
drink water, eat a vegetable that isn't just a single
(10:45):
coin of carrot.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Day. All right, Well, the numbers.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We have known for you, I have no numbers for you.
I could not find numbers about the global production of
manufactured gafilter fish and I maybe I didn't look that hard.
I could have looked harder.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
This is probably my fault. It's okay, Lauren, Well yeah,
I think so. Okay, listeners, they'll forgive it. It's the
holidays were about right forget Yeah, sure, well we do
(11:36):
have quite a history for you. We do.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
But first we've got a quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Uh So.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Although gafilter fish is a dish that is in and
like small loaf, formed today, it started out as a
type of stuffed or or force meat fish dish. The
Yiddish term gefilta comes from a word for stuffed.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, and the first recipe for stuffed pike appeared in
a non Jewish German cookbook from around thirteen fifty CE.
The recipe called for herbs like saffron and stage to
be mixed together with fish meat and then put back
into the fish skin for roasting. Soon after, similar recipes
started appearing in French cookbooks and yeah, during Lint and
(12:37):
other religious days for Catholics, this and dishes like it
were very popular for you know, abstaining from meat.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Because fish don't count is meat for complicated other reasons.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, complicated other reasons. Indeed, sometime during the Middle Ages,
some Jewish communities in Europe adopted the dish in some celebrations,
since fish dishes were often and symbolic of a lot
of things in Judaism.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, prosperity, protection, fertility.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, And for a while there were a lot of
regional takes on this dish, different types of fish used,
based on what was readily available, different preparations, but one
thing was fairly true across all of it. It was
time consuming m h yep. That is until a new,
less arduous preparation came alone. Many Jewish households in Europe
(13:31):
started making dumplings with fish, eggs and mozzamiale by the
seventeenth century. That could be viewed as a precursor to
more common modern preparations of filter fish, and it was.
It was a popular dish for a lot of reasons
for Jewish folks in Europe, perhaps especially to those with
easy access to fish. It was fairly cheap, it was convenient,
(13:54):
and could be made ahead of time to meet religious stipulations.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, you're not spoke to do work during the Sabbath
or high holidays, and work includes pulling the bones out
of fish. But you could make these dumplings like the
day before, and you know they're by nature boneless, and
they're pre cooked for consumption the day of.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I'm all for it. In nineteenth century Poland, the introduction
of the sugar beet industry led to sweet gafilter fish.
At the time, imported sugar was incredibly expensive in Europe,
so Europeans were looking for cheaper alternatives. One of these
alternatives was the sugar beet, and the first sugar beet
(14:37):
factory opened in southern Poland in the early eighteen hundreds.
It was a success, and the resulting sugar was utilized
in a variety of dishes and in a variety of ways.
Jewish people in Poland took dishes that had traditionally been
typically savory and added the sugar to make them sweet,
including gafilter fish.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I understand this is also where like sweet coogles come from.
Still have not had the wherewithal to do a cocol episode.
It's difficult, y'all. But again, in terms of gafilterfish, it's
usually a little sweet, not like dessert sweet, although like
kind of the further west you go, apparently the sweeter,
(15:17):
the tradition sort of becomes. Research in fact points to
a Gaffilter fish line or divide in Europe, with regions
including most of Poland and everything to the west having
adopted sweetened versions of Gafilter fish and regions to the
east having stuck with more savory and perhaps increasingly peppery versions.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yes, opinions m hm oh, yeah, pinions abound on that,
and this is also just one of many yeah, regional
variations that popped up in Europe around this time based
on taste and available ingredients. With the immigration of Ashkenazi
Jews to America and eighteen hundreds, recipes for these fish
(16:03):
balls or fish dumplings as they were called started appearing
in Jewish American cookbooks. This dish did go by a
few names for a while, some of them are kind
of funny you want to look them up, until they
were finally labeled in print as gefilter fish in nineteen
sixty five of note Gaffield fish took a different path
(16:23):
for Jewish immigrants in Mexico based on available ingredients and
preferred preparations in the early twentieth century, before many had
access to refrigeration. Allegedly, some Jewish homes would keep fish
live in their bathtubs for a few days prior to
something like Passover, before they were eaten. This obviously wasn't
(16:44):
the easiest thing for some, this was taking up their
only bathtub, so a little before World War Two, Mother's
Fish Products, the brainchild of Sidney Leibner, started selling canned,
ready made gaffilter fish as an alternative. Later, the company
switched to selling this product in jars. Menschevitz, a company
(17:06):
we've discussed previously, soon follows suit, as did a few
other Jewish specialty food companies.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Amidst all of this, four people who still wanted to
make theirs at home. Some recipes in the convenience hungary
nineteen sixties called for canned tuna so that you wouldn't even.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Have to cook them, And then the nineteen seventies saw
the arrival of frozen loaves of cafilter fish that were
simple enough to make in your own home. Simply boil
some water with carrot, celery and onions and then add
in the frozen loaf. There you go.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
That's what a lot of people will do with the
like Manishevitz the jarred kind? Yeah, just you know, fancy
it up a tiny bit with yeah, a little bit
of home home soup.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, I'm into it. I'm into it. Conservative commentator William F.
Buckley wrote in response to what he viewed as an
attempt at handering on the part of Ronald Reagan President
Ronald Reagan at the time eating spaghetti to court the
Italian American vote quote, it is simply good manners to
(18:09):
pretend to enjoy what you are served, though an exception
might here be made of gafilter fish, the conception of
which reasonable epicureans might conclude is not worth going through
to gain admission to the White House. Wow, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, being president is cool, but not cool enough to
want to eat gafilter fish. I get it. Yeah, yeah,
yeah again opinions. There was a in twenty fourteen a
North American gafilter fish shortage in Deli's around passover due
(18:52):
to that polar vortex that year that kept the Great
Lakes iced over longer and thicker than usual. Apparently, reader
of The New York Times wrote in after they reported
on the story to say scarcity of gaffilter fish. This
is the best news since the Red Sea parted. Oh
(19:15):
my goodness, y'all are welcome for me not going like
full Rotney Dangerfield. Meanwhile, the Gaffilteriea launched in twenty twelve.
They are a media company that does like workshops and
cookbooks and stuff, with a mission of exploring and spreading
(19:41):
European Jewish cuisine. One of their initial things that they
did was producing and selling artisanal gafilter fish online, though
they had to shut that down. They had to shut
that whole arm down in twenty twenty three. But about it,
they say on their website to this day, we're pretty
sure it's the only the filter fish ever featured in Vogue.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
All Right, Yeah, I feel like I saw a lot
of articles where people are branching out from the jarred
stuff and finding better versions. Perhaps.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Oh yeah, no, I mean there can be there's an
interest in and can be an improvement to jarred anything.
I mean, you know, like, do I sometimes purchase a
jar of pre made Manza balls for manishevits?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Is it better than homemade Mansa balls?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No? Is it more convenient?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah? And there are ways you can make those. As
we've demonstrated throughout this, I think you can make those
canned things. You can give them a little.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
More Oh yeah, yeah, oh sure, absolutely, yeah, I add
your own flavor spins on them. I it is, it
is really, it's a little bit of a pain in
the toukis. But but I personally find making matza balls
or meatballs or anything like that by hand very soothing.
(21:16):
It's just like a really nice, repetitive task that at
the end of you get matza balls or meatballs, and
so it's ultimately very worth it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a nice take on it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, And they can just be so much lighter and
fluffier than you usually I mean, if you go to
like a nice restaurant.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Sure, but yeah, and usually with things like this, you're
not doing it. I did read one article or someone
who's like, we should eat a filter fish way more often.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But you're not.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
You're not eating something like this all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's a holiday dish, yeah, for the most part. Also,
I mean, food processors are amazing, what a great invention.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Future episode. Oh no, more homework. But in the meantime,
that is what we have to say about filter fish.
For now it is.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
We would love to hear from y'all though, if you
have any experiences or memories or recipe hacks. We do
already have some listener mail for you, though, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. Oh that was a nice one.
We'll see how it sounds.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, I was just thinking.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh, I was very off key of you, But that's
on brands I think best fun. I can't sing in key, like,
what is this on key you speak of? No, that's
not That's not what I do. I make a strong
attempt and fail.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
We're a lot of funny karaoke. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I'm great at carrios. Oh yeah, meaning I'm enthusiastic but terrible. Yes.
All right, So we have gotten so many tea opinions
who thank you, yes, and listeners keep sending them in.
This is fantastic. So we'll start with Kelsey. Kelsey wrote,
(23:40):
my only strong opinion on tea is when I recently
learned is moderately controversial for me. Milk or milk like
liquid should always be added to one's cup before the tea,
pouring in the tea afterward, especially if you can get
some height involved. Auto mixes the two quite nicely. Apparently,
(24:02):
in Britain and Britain Leaning cultures, the order in which
milk and tea are added to one's cup has class
connotations m shrug emoji only barely relatedly. The digestive system
of my spouse is forever at war with garlic and onions.
In order to flavor our food, I have repurposed my
(24:22):
tea infusure as a soup stew sauce infuser. I fill
it with minced aromatics and flop it in a simmering
liquid as if it were a bouquet ghani. If I
plan ahead or just don't forget, I sauta the aliums
before infusing. Works better than no onions, and I add
the solids from inside the infuser into my own bowl.
(24:44):
So we're both happy. That's amazing. That's a good idea.
I have a friend who's onion adverse. I'll say, okay,
and maybe this, maybe this could work.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Maybe it depends. It depends on the severity of the war.
And so I mean if your spouse is anything like me.
It depends on what other foods they've cheated with that
day that they know that they shouldn't really consume, because
for me, it's like a cumulative over the day or
(25:20):
over a couple days kind of situation for me, I
don't know that would be better than me having to
pick around garlic and onions, but it wouldn't be as
good as not cooking with the garlic and onions. And
I say that understanding that garlic and onions are very
delicious and that I want everyone to eat as many
(25:44):
of them as they want to.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Thank you, Laura. Oh yeah, my friend, she's not I know.
I've told this story before because it makes me laugh.
She's not intolerant or anything. She just thinks flavors overpowering.
And she's on a reddit breddit about people who don't
(26:07):
like onions, and it got infiltrated by people who like us.
It was my favorite. I was laughing so hard. So
I think if it, like, if I could lighten the
she'll eat them. It's just the flavors overpower.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, and so certainly a whole chunk of it in
there would be unpleasant to her, Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Also, I have to say I thought that there was
a typo in here, but I had to look it up.
I've never heard of bouquet arni, which is French term.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh yeah, yeah. It's when you tie up a little
bundle of herbs and you toss it into your thing
and then it's easy to take out as a bundle
so that it doesn't float around in your stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I was like, what in the world is this? Did
you mean Garnish? So thank you I learned something new.
Oh yea. And also yeah, listeners write in about this milk?
Do you put in the milk? If you put in
the milk. I certainly got a lot of opinions when
I was in England, but I don't know what any
(27:09):
of I don't know. You're confused by the entire I'm stressed. Yeah,
but I like that. I think that that makes sense
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, absolutely, So that you don't have to do the
work of stirring. Yeah, sometimes I like doing the work
of stirring, especially if you're adding sugar in. I don't know,
I mean, it depends, it depends.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
There could be places for all, you know, something that Yeah,
you don't want to you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Stir I am. I am curious about the class connotations
though emoji. Indeed, yeah, listeners right in one one more
note about onions and then and then I'll be quiet
about it. But but I personally have found that a
mixture of carrots and so can do a different but
(28:02):
cool thing in dishes that call for onions and garlic
if you're looking to avoid those things. And furthermore, if
a dish calls for bell peppers in a similar aromatic
vegetable kind of way, tilmu teo sometimes can work in there.
But yeah, depends on what you're making. Wanted to say
it out loud. There you go, Sheldon wrote. First, some background,
(28:27):
I've been drinking tea for almost seventy years. The way
Annie is with tea is the way I am with coffee.
Just don't like the stuff. My grandmother was born in
Ireland in the eighteen nineties. She started me on tea
as a young child by making me a cup of
tea which was ninety percent milk and a lot of sugar.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
As I got.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Older, it became stronger tea without the sugar. So my
grandmother was drinking tea before the invention of the tea bag.
She never liked tea and bags. When she moved in
with us after the death of my grandfather, we used
to have the more expensive loose tea just for her,
and everyone else had to use the tea in the bags.
There is one thing she told me about tea bags
(29:04):
that stayed with me all my life. She said that
at the tea factory, each night they would sweep the
floor and they would use that for filling the tea bags.
I'm not sure if she really believed that or not. Also,
here in Canada, the tea bags do not have a
string on them. You have to remove it from the
cup with a spoon, though I usually use my fingers.
The slight burn is the price I pay for being
too lazy to get up to get a spoon. The
(29:26):
tea bags here also have slightly more tea in them
than US bags for a slightly stronger cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Interesting. Okay, I have to say I've heard that what
I've fairly certain as a rumor.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I've I've heard that before as well.
Now I can't remember who would have said that to
me or in what context, but at any rate, yeah,
that's the It's definitely a thing. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
it's just an urban legend, but but that is how
people who dislike teabags feel about it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, it is emotionally true, if nothing else exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I don't think, I this is really interesting to me,
just because I don't think I had tea other than
like sweet tea until I was in college. I don't think.
I I don't know. I don't know if that's strange
for an American or not. I know for other countries
that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But yeah, I think the I think the first my
first exposure to tea was in like Chinese restaurants, but
occasionally my Jewish grandmother would brew hot tea. But other
than that, yeah, it was like cold like iced tea
(30:58):
until relatively recently. By relative, I don't know what time
is anymore, so I might mean just after college, which
has been a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I also do kind of love. Somebody in my family
who's younger than me. She bought like a blue, a
fancy blue tea kettle in all these loose leave teas
she was going to. It felt like a very you know,
I'm going to read this book and make this teah
(31:33):
and then she did. The convenience factor is gone. So
it is interesting to me the strong opinions people have
and sort of the sometimes romanticizing of that, not the
tea bag, of the original process of making tea.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, I mean it can be very nice. I do
enjoy the process and the accoutrem but not if I've
just woken up and I need some caffeine, you know. Yeah,
like that is when a tea bag is very good.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yes, it's kind of the same. I used to be
the same where if I had a what I used
to call lazy Sundays, which I didn't know was a
whole thing pop culturally, but anyway, I used to make
a French press of coffee, but I would only do
it on the you know, Sundays where I woke up
and I felt rested and I was like, I have
(32:30):
time to do this. Otherwise I'm like, just get me
that caf It's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, I mean right, and like
you know, like I've I've been to as an adult.
You know, I've had friends throw like tea parties and
they were very nice. But a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So much work, yes, which is lovely. Sometimes, Sure, you
just need the quick you need the quick figure.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, not when you just need the caffeine exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, thanks to both of these listeners for writing it.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Blue Sky and Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(33:33):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about gaffilter fish.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I think I know the answer, but any particular
reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes, as we record this, the Jewish holiday Passover is
right coming right up, and this is a dish that
is associated with Jewish holidays like Passover.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yes, and I believe I've told this story before. My
one and only experience with gafilter fish was when I
went to in college. I went to a friend of
mine's Passover. Oh, and I could tell it was a dish,
like everyone was looking at me to see how I
would react, you know, And I tried and I was like, yeah,
(00:56):
it's good, no complaints.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think if you're if you're totally unfamiliar,
sometimes American palettes aren't east to the concept of like
a fish meatball kind of kind of thing, and particularly
if it's served chilled, that might be something that you're
just slightly confused by. But but yeah, I mean, you know,
(01:22):
food is good.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, we I did, not to be fair, I did
not like a field fish when I was a kid,
and I haven't had it very often as an adult.
When I was a kid, it was just it was
too fishy for me, and right there was a texture
thing going on that I was not accustomed to and
therefore was kind of wary of. But also like my
(01:49):
family served it out of the jar, So I feel
like that might be that might have something to do
with it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I have seen a lot lot of similar compellints, yeah,
which we'll talk about later. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, briefly, fast fast over passover being a feast day. Sorry,
mixed up the words feast and past. Where I liked
it is a is a feast day that is in
remembrance and and celebration of the Jewish people getting out
(02:31):
of Egypt basically, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, And you can see our past episodes on MATSA
and Lucas maybe sure also aspect horse Radish. Oh, I
like all those. That's an interesting combination. I guess that
brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I guess it does. I feel like I've got a
lot of spoilers in here, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Gefilter fish, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, gafilter fish is a type of minced fish loaf
or dumpling that can come in a lot of varieties,
but what you're basically looking at is some kind or
kinds of usually fresh water, white fleshed fish, chopped fine
and then mixed with a mazza meal or maybe breadcrumbs,
diced onion, egg and seasonings basic stuff like salt and
(03:30):
pepper and maybe sugar, and then formed into small loaves
and cooked until tender, usually in a method like poaching
or steaming that gives them a soft finish. They can
be served chilled or room temperature or warm, often as
an appetizer with a with like a horse radish sauce
like hot horse radish, often for holiday meals. When gafilter
(03:53):
fish is chilled, they gel up a bit with an
almost aspect sort of quality. When warm, they's fluffy. They're
a non crispy fish cake. They inspire some strong nostalgia
and other strong opinions for me. At their best, they're
like if you took just a spoonful of like hearty
(04:18):
clear broth fish stew and made it delicate. It's a
it's a kind of practical sort of treat. It's like
it's like pulling on a fine sweater.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I do like putting on a fine sweater.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right, yeah, yeah, uh okay. I will say at the
top here that some of these strong opinions about cafil
to fish come from people only having been exposed to
the manufactured jarred type, which tend to be like simultaneously
(04:58):
extra strongly fishy and extra soft in texture. I mean,
it's a canned dumpling, Like what do you expect? And
this is one of those cases where handmade is like
almost a different creature. Though, I like, I haven't had
the jarred kind since I was a kid, and now
I'm going, like what I like them? I like strongly
(05:19):
fishy flavors.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Anyway, Also note here that if you're unfamiliar with kosher observances,
I'm gonna mention a couple things throughout the episode, but
like that's a different episode. Like, if you're not familiar
and you're planning on cooking for someone who does keep kosher,
you should either look up kosher recipes or just ask
them what's appropriate, as with any dietary preference or restriction. Also,
(05:47):
in addition to not being scientists or dieticians, I'm not
an expert in kosher observances.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, we're experts and a couple of things, but a
lot of them surprisingly are not food based at all. Yeah,
we're learning with all of you.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
But okay, so let's unpack those ingredients first. The fish,
whatever is local and fresh and preferred can work, but
like nice, mild, flaky types of white freshwater fish are
the most common. Things like pike, carp or whitefish. Things
that are you know, like a little delicately sweet, a
(06:32):
little fishy, not too oily. Note that not all fish
are kosher. For example, catfish are not because they don't
have scales. Again, kosher stuff separate episode. Next. Fine chopped
onion and possibly other aromatic vegetables like maybe carrots can
add some flavor and some texture in there. Sometimes these
(06:53):
will be cooked before being added so that they're not
too crunchy in the final product. Egg and mozza meal
are in to bind everything together and lead to like
a light and tender texture. Mozza meal is the coarseish
ground meal made from matza, which are unlovened crackers usually
made out of wheat flour. They're good at soaking up
(07:14):
moisture and flavor, while like maintaining fluff as long as
you don't pack them too hard. Egg white proteins meanwhile,
unfurl when they're heated and then form like springy little
chains and webs that can trap moisture as well, as
long as you don't heat them too much. Further past
that point, egg yolks provide richness. Other season seasonings tend
(07:37):
to be minimal salt, pepper, maybe lemon juice or nutmeg
or something like that. Some traditions do add a bit
of sugar to play on the slight sweetness of the fish.
It's usually just a bit of sugar, like sweet like
a crab cake, not sweet like a birthday cake. Usually, again,
people have opinions. The cooking method really can vary. Like traditionally,
(08:03):
what you do is you get a whole fish, or
like a bunch of hole fish. Really, you remove the
filets and then make a fish stock using the heads
and bones plus some you know, onions, carrots, celery whatever. Meanwhile,
you find, chop the fish, mix it with the other ingredients,
and gently hand press it into like little oval dumplings
like the size of an egg or like a canal.
(08:24):
You know. Then when the stock is done, you strain
it and heat it to just poaching temperature like hot
but well under a simmer, you know, and then gently
poach the dumplings until the fish is cooked and the
egg holds everything together. At this point they can be
served warm or stored in the fridge to chill, and
then later served either directly or gently reheated. When cafilter
(08:50):
fish is chilled in a bit of that fish stock,
the stock will form up into you know, a sort
of like gela or aspec due to the gelatin in
the fish bones, you know, like a like a savory
fish broth jello kind of situation. And so when they're
served chilled, a bit of the gel is often served
(09:10):
along with the gaffelda fish. The kind of traditional or
maybe old fashioned way I guess of serving them is
with a coin of cooked carrot on top of each
piece and then an accompaniment of prepared horsepratish that is
fresh grated horsepradish with a bit of vinegar to preserve
the spiciness. Yeah, or maybe like a cold sauce made
(09:31):
with horsepratish and beets or mayo or something maybe like
on top a leaf lettuce or with sprigs of parsley
or dill. But people do all kinds of takes. I've
seen recipes for steamed cafilter fish, baked cafilter fish, gafilter
made with cold smoked fish, or with nice rich salmon.
You can form larger loaves and then slice them into
(09:53):
individual portions after cooking and or chilling. There are regional
rifts of fish cakes that are fried or that are
so with a tomato sauce or served with a lemon sauce.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I'm pretty sure I just had the traditional carrot on top.
It was cold, but it was savory. I remember that.
Yeah it was good.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I guess by themselves. It depends on how you make it,
as with any dish, you know, by themselves. Cathelta fish
are pretty good for you, you know, like decent punch of protein.
It can can be can range high in fats depending
on how you make them. But yeah, I'd say overall, yeah,
drink water, eat a vegetable that isn't just a single
(10:45):
coin of carrot.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Day. All right, Well, the numbers.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
We have known for you, I have no numbers for you.
I could not find numbers about the global production of
manufactured gafilter fish and I maybe I didn't look that hard.
I could have looked harder.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
This is probably my fault. It's okay, Lauren, Well yeah,
I think so. Okay, listeners, they'll forgive it. It's the
holidays were about right forget Yeah, sure, well we do
(11:36):
have quite a history for you. We do.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
But first we've got a quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Uh So.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Although gafilter fish is a dish that is in and
like small loaf, formed today, it started out as a
type of stuffed or or force meat fish dish. The
Yiddish term gefilta comes from a word for stuffed.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, and the first recipe for stuffed pike appeared in
a non Jewish German cookbook from around thirteen fifty CE.
The recipe called for herbs like saffron and stage to
be mixed together with fish meat and then put back
into the fish skin for roasting. Soon after, similar recipes
started appearing in French cookbooks and yeah, during Lint and
(12:37):
other religious days for Catholics, this and dishes like it
were very popular for you know, abstaining from meat.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Because fish don't count is meat for complicated other reasons.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, complicated other reasons. Indeed, sometime during the Middle Ages,
some Jewish communities in Europe adopted the dish in some celebrations,
since fish dishes were often and symbolic of a lot
of things in Judaism.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, prosperity, protection, fertility.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, And for a while there were a lot of
regional takes on this dish, different types of fish used,
based on what was readily available, different preparations, but one
thing was fairly true across all of it. It was
time consuming m h yep. That is until a new,
less arduous preparation came alone. Many Jewish households in Europe
(13:31):
started making dumplings with fish, eggs and mozzamiale by the
seventeenth century. That could be viewed as a precursor to
more common modern preparations of filter fish, and it was.
It was a popular dish for a lot of reasons
for Jewish folks in Europe, perhaps especially to those with
easy access to fish. It was fairly cheap, it was convenient,
(13:54):
and could be made ahead of time to meet religious stipulations.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, you're not spoke to do work during the Sabbath
or high holidays, and work includes pulling the bones out
of fish. But you could make these dumplings like the
day before, and you know they're by nature boneless, and
they're pre cooked for consumption the day of.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I'm all for it. In nineteenth century Poland, the introduction
of the sugar beet industry led to sweet gafilter fish.
At the time, imported sugar was incredibly expensive in Europe,
so Europeans were looking for cheaper alternatives. One of these
alternatives was the sugar beet, and the first sugar beet
(14:37):
factory opened in southern Poland in the early eighteen hundreds.
It was a success, and the resulting sugar was utilized
in a variety of dishes and in a variety of ways.
Jewish people in Poland took dishes that had traditionally been
typically savory and added the sugar to make them sweet,
including gafilter fish.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I understand this is also where like sweet coogles come from.
Still have not had the wherewithal to do a cocol episode.
It's difficult, y'all. But again, in terms of gafilterfish, it's
usually a little sweet, not like dessert sweet, although like
kind of the further west you go, apparently the sweeter,
(15:17):
the tradition sort of becomes. Research in fact points to
a Gaffilter fish line or divide in Europe, with regions
including most of Poland and everything to the west having
adopted sweetened versions of Gafilter fish and regions to the
east having stuck with more savory and perhaps increasingly peppery versions.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yes, opinions m hm oh, yeah, pinions abound on that,
and this is also just one of many yeah, regional
variations that popped up in Europe around this time based
on taste and available ingredients. With the immigration of Ashkenazi
Jews to America and eighteen hundreds, recipes for these fish
(16:03):
balls or fish dumplings as they were called started appearing
in Jewish American cookbooks. This dish did go by a
few names for a while, some of them are kind
of funny you want to look them up, until they
were finally labeled in print as gefilter fish in nineteen
sixty five of note Gaffield fish took a different path
(16:23):
for Jewish immigrants in Mexico based on available ingredients and
preferred preparations in the early twentieth century, before many had
access to refrigeration. Allegedly, some Jewish homes would keep fish
live in their bathtubs for a few days prior to
something like Passover, before they were eaten. This obviously wasn't
(16:44):
the easiest thing for some, this was taking up their
only bathtub, so a little before World War Two, Mother's
Fish Products, the brainchild of Sidney Leibner, started selling canned,
ready made gaffilter fish as an alternative. Later, the company
switched to selling this product in jars. Menschevitz, a company
(17:06):
we've discussed previously, soon follows suit, as did a few
other Jewish specialty food companies.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Amidst all of this, four people who still wanted to
make theirs at home. Some recipes in the convenience hungary
nineteen sixties called for canned tuna so that you wouldn't even.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Have to cook them, And then the nineteen seventies saw
the arrival of frozen loaves of cafilter fish that were
simple enough to make in your own home. Simply boil
some water with carrot, celery and onions and then add
in the frozen loaf. There you go.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
That's what a lot of people will do with the
like Manishevitz the jarred kind? Yeah, just you know, fancy
it up a tiny bit with yeah, a little bit
of home home soup.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, I'm into it. I'm into it. Conservative commentator William F.
Buckley wrote in response to what he viewed as an
attempt at handering on the part of Ronald Reagan President
Ronald Reagan at the time eating spaghetti to court the
Italian American vote quote, it is simply good manners to
(18:09):
pretend to enjoy what you are served, though an exception
might here be made of gafilter fish, the conception of
which reasonable epicureans might conclude is not worth going through
to gain admission to the White House. Wow, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, being president is cool, but not cool enough to
want to eat gafilter fish. I get it. Yeah, yeah,
yeah again opinions. There was a in twenty fourteen a
North American gafilter fish shortage in Deli's around passover due
(18:52):
to that polar vortex that year that kept the Great
Lakes iced over longer and thicker than usual. Apparently, reader
of The New York Times wrote in after they reported
on the story to say scarcity of gaffilter fish. This
is the best news since the Red Sea parted. Oh
(19:15):
my goodness, y'all are welcome for me not going like
full Rotney Dangerfield. Meanwhile, the Gaffilteriea launched in twenty twelve.
They are a media company that does like workshops and
cookbooks and stuff, with a mission of exploring and spreading
(19:41):
European Jewish cuisine. One of their initial things that they
did was producing and selling artisanal gafilter fish online, though
they had to shut that down. They had to shut
that whole arm down in twenty twenty three. But about it,
they say on their website to this day, we're pretty
sure it's the only the filter fish ever featured in Vogue.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
All Right, Yeah, I feel like I saw a lot
of articles where people are branching out from the jarred
stuff and finding better versions. Perhaps.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Oh yeah, no, I mean there can be there's an
interest in and can be an improvement to jarred anything.
I mean, you know, like, do I sometimes purchase a
jar of pre made Manza balls for manishevits?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Is it better than homemade Mansa balls?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No? Is it more convenient?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah? And there are ways you can make those. As
we've demonstrated throughout this, I think you can make those
canned things. You can give them a little.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
More Oh yeah, yeah, oh sure, absolutely, yeah, I add
your own flavor spins on them. I it is, it
is really, it's a little bit of a pain in
the toukis. But but I personally find making matza balls
or meatballs or anything like that by hand very soothing.
(21:16):
It's just like a really nice, repetitive task that at
the end of you get matza balls or meatballs, and
so it's ultimately very worth it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, that's a nice take on it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, And they can just be so much lighter and
fluffier than you usually I mean, if you go to
like a nice restaurant.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Sure, but yeah, and usually with things like this, you're
not doing it. I did read one article or someone
who's like, we should eat a filter fish way more often.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But you're not.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
You're not eating something like this all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's a holiday dish, yeah, for the most part. Also,
I mean, food processors are amazing, what a great invention.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Future episode. Oh no, more homework. But in the meantime,
that is what we have to say about filter fish.
For now it is.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
We would love to hear from y'all though, if you
have any experiences or memories or recipe hacks. We do
already have some listener mail for you, though, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. Oh that was a nice one.
We'll see how it sounds.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, I was just thinking.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh, I was very off key of you, But that's
on brands I think best fun. I can't sing in key, like,
what is this on key you speak of? No, that's
not That's not what I do. I make a strong
attempt and fail.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
We're a lot of funny karaoke. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I'm great at carrios. Oh yeah, meaning I'm enthusiastic but terrible. Yes.
All right, So we have gotten so many tea opinions
who thank you, yes, and listeners keep sending them in.
This is fantastic. So we'll start with Kelsey. Kelsey wrote,
(23:40):
my only strong opinion on tea is when I recently
learned is moderately controversial for me. Milk or milk like
liquid should always be added to one's cup before the tea,
pouring in the tea afterward, especially if you can get
some height involved. Auto mixes the two quite nicely. Apparently,
(24:02):
in Britain and Britain Leaning cultures, the order in which
milk and tea are added to one's cup has class
connotations m shrug emoji only barely relatedly. The digestive system
of my spouse is forever at war with garlic and onions.
In order to flavor our food, I have repurposed my
(24:22):
tea infusure as a soup stew sauce infuser. I fill
it with minced aromatics and flop it in a simmering
liquid as if it were a bouquet ghani. If I
plan ahead or just don't forget, I sauta the aliums
before infusing. Works better than no onions, and I add
the solids from inside the infuser into my own bowl.
(24:44):
So we're both happy. That's amazing. That's a good idea.
I have a friend who's onion adverse. I'll say, okay,
and maybe this, maybe this could work.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Maybe it depends. It depends on the severity of the war.
And so I mean if your spouse is anything like me.
It depends on what other foods they've cheated with that
day that they know that they shouldn't really consume, because
for me, it's like a cumulative over the day or
(25:20):
over a couple days kind of situation for me, I
don't know that would be better than me having to
pick around garlic and onions, but it wouldn't be as
good as not cooking with the garlic and onions. And
I say that understanding that garlic and onions are very
delicious and that I want everyone to eat as many
(25:44):
of them as they want to.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Thank you, Laura. Oh yeah, my friend, she's not I know.
I've told this story before because it makes me laugh.
She's not intolerant or anything. She just thinks flavors overpowering.
And she's on a reddit breddit about people who don't
(26:07):
like onions, and it got infiltrated by people who like us.
It was my favorite. I was laughing so hard. So
I think if it, like, if I could lighten the
she'll eat them. It's just the flavors overpower.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, and so certainly a whole chunk of it in
there would be unpleasant to her, Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Also, I have to say I thought that there was
a typo in here, but I had to look it up.
I've never heard of bouquet arni, which is French term.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh yeah, yeah. It's when you tie up a little
bundle of herbs and you toss it into your thing
and then it's easy to take out as a bundle
so that it doesn't float around in your stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I was like, what in the world is this? Did
you mean Garnish? So thank you I learned something new.
Oh yea. And also yeah, listeners write in about this milk?
Do you put in the milk? If you put in
the milk. I certainly got a lot of opinions when
I was in England, but I don't know what any
(27:09):
of I don't know. You're confused by the entire I'm stressed. Yeah,
but I like that. I think that that makes sense
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, absolutely, So that you don't have to do the
work of stirring. Yeah, sometimes I like doing the work
of stirring, especially if you're adding sugar in. I don't know,
I mean, it depends, it depends.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
There could be places for all, you know, something that Yeah,
you don't want to you don't want to.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Stir I am. I am curious about the class connotations
though emoji. Indeed, yeah, listeners right in one one more
note about onions and then and then I'll be quiet
about it. But but I personally have found that a
mixture of carrots and so can do a different but
(28:02):
cool thing in dishes that call for onions and garlic
if you're looking to avoid those things. And furthermore, if
a dish calls for bell peppers in a similar aromatic
vegetable kind of way, tilmu teo sometimes can work in there.
But yeah, depends on what you're making. Wanted to say
it out loud. There you go, Sheldon wrote. First, some background,
(28:27):
I've been drinking tea for almost seventy years. The way
Annie is with tea is the way I am with coffee.
Just don't like the stuff. My grandmother was born in
Ireland in the eighteen nineties. She started me on tea
as a young child by making me a cup of
tea which was ninety percent milk and a lot of sugar.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
As I got.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Older, it became stronger tea without the sugar. So my
grandmother was drinking tea before the invention of the tea bag.
She never liked tea and bags. When she moved in
with us after the death of my grandfather, we used
to have the more expensive loose tea just for her,
and everyone else had to use the tea in the bags.
There is one thing she told me about tea bags
(29:04):
that stayed with me all my life. She said that
at the tea factory, each night they would sweep the
floor and they would use that for filling the tea bags.
I'm not sure if she really believed that or not. Also,
here in Canada, the tea bags do not have a
string on them. You have to remove it from the
cup with a spoon, though I usually use my fingers.
The slight burn is the price I pay for being
too lazy to get up to get a spoon. The
(29:26):
tea bags here also have slightly more tea in them
than US bags for a slightly stronger cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Interesting. Okay, I have to say I've heard that what
I've fairly certain as a rumor.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I've I've heard that before as well.
Now I can't remember who would have said that to
me or in what context, but at any rate, yeah,
that's the It's definitely a thing. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
it's just an urban legend, but but that is how
people who dislike teabags feel about it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, it is emotionally true, if nothing else exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I don't think, I this is really interesting to me,
just because I don't think I had tea other than
like sweet tea until I was in college. I don't think.
I I don't know. I don't know if that's strange
for an American or not. I know for other countries
that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
But yeah, I think the I think the first my
first exposure to tea was in like Chinese restaurants, but
occasionally my Jewish grandmother would brew hot tea. But other
than that, yeah, it was like cold like iced tea
(30:58):
until relatively recently. By relative, I don't know what time
is anymore, so I might mean just after college, which
has been a minute.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I also do kind of love. Somebody in my family
who's younger than me. She bought like a blue, a
fancy blue tea kettle in all these loose leave teas
she was going to. It felt like a very you know,
I'm going to read this book and make this teah
(31:33):
and then she did. The convenience factor is gone. So
it is interesting to me the strong opinions people have
and sort of the sometimes romanticizing of that, not the
tea bag, of the original process of making tea.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, I mean it can be very nice. I do
enjoy the process and the accoutrem but not if I've
just woken up and I need some caffeine, you know. Yeah,
like that is when a tea bag is very good.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yes, it's kind of the same. I used to be
the same where if I had a what I used
to call lazy Sundays, which I didn't know was a
whole thing pop culturally, but anyway, I used to make
a French press of coffee, but I would only do
it on the you know, Sundays where I woke up
and I felt rested and I was like, I have
(32:30):
time to do this. Otherwise I'm like, just get me
that caf It's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, I mean right, and like
you know, like I've I've been to as an adult.
You know, I've had friends throw like tea parties and
they were very nice. But a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So much work, yes, which is lovely. Sometimes, Sure, you
just need the quick you need the quick figure.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, not when you just need the caffeine exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, thanks to both of these listeners for writing it.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our email us hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Blue Sky and Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(33:33):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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