Inside the Minds of Hoarders with Dr. Rebecca Beaton

According to the Mayo clinic, hoarding is an excessive collection of items along with the inability to discard them. But what exactly makes a person a hoarder? In this episode, Cristen and Molly interview Dr. Rebecca Beaton to learn more about hoarding.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to step Mom never told
you from House top Works dot Com. Come and welcome
to the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. Kristen.

(00:20):
We had a pretty cool opportunity come up to us
a few a few weeks ago, FILS we did. We
talked to Dr Rebecca Beaton, who was a psychologist and
also the founder and director of the Anxiety and Stress
Management Institute. Yes, frankly surprising, she didn't take both of
us away for anxiety and stress management help Tacus the
real But actually, if you are a fan of TLC,

(00:41):
you've probably seen Dr Beaton on the show Hoarding Buried Alive. Yeah,
hoarding has been getting a lot of attention lately on television. Uh,
it's sort of come out of nowhere, highlighting this disorder
that's actually been around and recognized in the clinical community
for a long time. But I don't know about you, Molly,

(01:02):
but it's only been in maybe the past year or
two that I've really known about hoarding. Yeah, it's been
everywhere in the last year or two, and and that's
why it was so great to talk to Dr Beaton
is because she, I think, cleared up a lot of misconceptions,
sort of more defined this condition of hoarding for us.
So we're going to play a lot of our conversation
with her today. But before we get started, shall I

(01:23):
just give you a brief overview of hoarding? Yes, please,
In case you've been living in a house that's full
of belongings and you can't find a radio. I'm a
little concerned. I don't have a closet in my room,
so sometimes I feel like a hoarder even if I'm
not hoarding, just because my things are always out. I'm
gonna be honest with you, I think even if you're
not a hoarder, listening to Dr Beaton is going to

(01:43):
make you question yourself. Yeah, you're gonna want to go
clean out your sock drawer or something you gotta You're
gonna have to get rid of something. Hoarding is an
excessive collection of items along with the inability to discard them.
That sense is from the Mayo Clinic. And what happens,
what really distinguishes hoarding from something else is Dr Beaton's
gonna againto is just how it affects your living conditions, right,
they're gonna get so cramped that everything is filled a capacity.

(02:06):
But people who are living there don't see it as
a problem. It's often the people around the hoarder who finally,
you know, it's the breaking point where they're like, you've
got to do something about this. Right. And one thing
that I didn't know about hoarding before we talked to
Dr Beaton was that it's actually UM right now considered
a subset of O c D or obsessive compulsive disorder.
But that's actually about to change, is Dr Beaton's gonna

(02:28):
tell us about, and hoarding is going to be classified
as its own specific disorder. So here's Dr Beaton telling
us a little bit more about hoarding in its connection
to O c D in terms of the connection with
UM O c D. Typically it's considered right now subtype
of O c D and UM or it's also considered

(02:52):
one of the eight criteria for obsessive compulsive personality disorder,
which is slightly different than just straight O c D
uh UM. And however, they are slating to put the
new Diagnostical Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into effect in
two thousand twelve and they've slated hoarding disorder to be

(03:16):
its own disorder among the anxiety disorders and the new
d S M and UM and primarily because they've realized
that there's different neurobiology with hoarding than O c D
and also the treatment protocol that you would use to
treat O c D doesn't quite work with hoarding disorder,

(03:39):
and so they've realized that it is really very unique
and it should not just be classified as a subtype. Now.
I have to say, Christen, when we first started thinking
about talking about hoarding, my mind immediately went to my father,
who collects a lot of political memorabilia, sometimes the point
of obsession, but you know, it's it's really cool stuff.

(04:01):
And I think that often probably my long suffering mother
has been like is this collecting or is this hoarding? Right?
Because so many people have all kinds of collections. I
know I had to stamp collection as a child, Molly
um my mother. I probably shouldn't share this, but embarrassing
factually had a Beanie baby collection. I think everyone has something,

(04:23):
you know, and and it's very easy to um. I've
told this story, I think to you before Christmen. One
time I made a pair of frog pajamas in a
sewing class. Yes, you brought this up in our home podcast,
and now everyone gives me frog stuff just at the wazoo.
So now you're the girl collecting frogs even though you
didn't even mean to start, even when you just start
this collection. So how do I distinguish a shelf for

(04:43):
full of frog gifts from you know, something more sinister
like hoarding? And that is the question we posed to
dr beaton. Where the real problem comes in is if
it caused impairment and they're functioning, So if it's causing
the living space to be so out it that they
can't move around very well or access things that they
need like the stove or the refrigerator, or if it's

(05:07):
blocking like heat ducks or exits is so it really
comes down to how much space it's taking up versus
what it is. So when you watch the show Hoarding
Buried Alive on TLC and you see the extent to
which hoarding has clearly um created some kind of functional

(05:28):
impairment in these people's lives. I mean there's just stuff.
They can't even get through their houses. They can barely
sleep in their own beds because there was just stuff everywhere.
The big question for me while it was where does
this hoarding behavior come from? It seems so abnormal in
a way, because you know, you can see the evidence

(05:48):
of this this functional impairment right in front of you.
So the question we wanted to ask Dr Beaton was
what are the psychological roots of this kind of obsessive,
compulsive of behavior. I find that almost all hoarders are
trying to protect themselves, So no matter what they're reason

(06:11):
for collecting is underneath it all is a way of
putting up a wall to keep them safe from people. Um,
there's certainly a biological predisposition to it, we've determined, and
it's hereditary. You know. There's some statistics that say up
to cent of first degree relatives are a person with

(06:33):
hoarding disorder will have a first degree relative that also
has hoarding disorder, So they've got that predisposition. However, Um,
you know, and it also starts in early childhood and adolescent.
So if you start to see the pattern coming about
in early adolescents typically and they start hoarding somewhat, and

(06:57):
then as life goes on and we all go through
trials and tribulations and personal um losses and those losses
seem to really affect them more and more where they
start walling off, and um, they're really protecting themselves from
being hurt by people, and that's a great way to do.
So you don't invite people into your home because you

(07:18):
don't want them to see it, and um, they are
worried that people are going to judge them, so they
just don't allow themselves to get close to other people.
So that's a component I think that's important to realize,
is that there's definitely a social aspect there of there
they're wanting to protect themselves, and um, I think that

(07:40):
gets missed at times. Clearly. It takes a lot of
time though too a mass an enormous collection. I mean,
it took me years to create the perfect stamp collection, Molly,
I'm really excited collection. That's not a ware it existed. Well,
I kind of had had a jump, so it was
it was a election started by my father that was

(08:01):
innt handed down Jamie, so I didn't have to start
from scratch. But with as with any collection, it takes
a long time to accumulate all of these things. So
a lot of times, by the time hoarding really gets
out of hand, you're an adult, you know, your middle aged.
You've had years and you probably have the apartment or
the house and the disposed income and the disposable income

(08:23):
to create these enormous collections of things. But one thing
that doctor Beaten points out is that this behavior, whether
you can notice it or not, generally begins in adolescence.
I have an adolescent right now that um it's actually
a family I'm working with and I UM and the

(08:45):
the adolescent has started to watch hoarding Buried Alive and realized,
oh my gosh, I have this. And he realized it
before his mother even realized it because he's he's holding
onto all these items from childhood because it reminds some
happy times and he does not want to let go
of his g I. Joe's and all these various things. So, UM,

(09:08):
that's really you can start to see whether they're having
anxiety around partying with items that it's really important they
keep everything. Um. And and you know, for him, he's
catching it early. And so he's got a charity that
he really likes, and he is donating to the charity
and he's trying to you know, we're trying to help
him reframe, you know, it isn't it great to have

(09:28):
some other um, you know, kid out there that can
enjoy these items that that you're just living sit on
the shelf at this point. So, I mean that's primary.
Primarily where it shows up is is toys and memories
or you know, but it can be different things too.
I mean, you can still be like their trash or
um you know, a collection of some kind. It just depends,

(09:51):
but that is where it shows up. Typically there's some
sense of being, you know, wanting to keep things and
collect things in at a lot sense even an early
child that it can show up, but it doesn't a
lot of times it goes under the radar until they
are older. And if you have, if you've noticed with
the show, they are often in their mid fifties. And

(10:13):
so if you think about mid fifties, that's about the
time you lose a parent and um or have lost
a parent maybe you know, within the last decade, and
over the last decade the hoarding gets worse. So they
end up on the show about mid fifties. So they
can go under the radar for a long time. Plus
it takes a while. It depends about how much money
a person has, but it takes a while to fill

(10:35):
up a house. You know. You also find with them
that they have like some kind of inheritance. Um, you
know that they you know, one person I worked with
on the show, she had had a two d thod
dollar inheritance and she blew through it in a couple
of years and that's how she built up her house. Um.
So if that's why it shows up later on, is
it takes time to have enough money to collect these

(10:57):
things or I mean, you know, it doesn't always have
to be the items they purchased. It could be things
that you know, you've seen dumpster divers and that kind
of thing. Um, But it often does show open adolescence.
So we know some of the psychological roots of it.
We know when it starts. We can We've started to
learn from talking to Dr Beaton some of the characteristics

(11:18):
of this condition. But the thing I had to know
was just, you know, why is this going on? Why
you know, if if you're if you can't walk around
your house, why do you keep doing it? And so
that's what we asked Dr Beaten. The thing about hoarding
disorder is that they are reinforced for both collecting and avoiding,

(11:40):
and so they get high off of collecting. I mean,
that's why it's very much like an addiction and UM.
And so they get a rush from collecting or looking
at the items that they collected. I mean, when I
worked with kept the price tags on everything that she
collected because she got a great deal. So if she'd
want to look at them and say, look at how

(12:01):
much I paid for that, I hardly paid anything. That's awesome.
And so you know, they get they get a high
off of it, so that they're reinforced for that. And
then they also get reinforced for avoiding because if it
causes more anxiety to actually conquer the fear. And so
if they just avoid it, then they keep them the

(12:23):
anxiety at bay and maybe if they go out shopping
again for something or collecting however they're doing they're collecting,
then that will keep the anxiety at bay. UM. And
it's with O. C D. Typically they're in the moment,
they're having more distress over it. They're realizing, you know this,
this is not good that I'm doing this, whereas the
horridor when they're out shopping, they are enjoying every minute

(12:48):
of it, which is why it's more like an addiction
in that way than it is typical o CDP behavior. Now,
this is stuff no I've never told you, and we
can't can't do a subject without throwing all the little
little gender fund in there. You're probably wondering why it
took so long to get to this, But we had
to know differences between male and female hoarders. And I

(13:10):
bet you what Dr Beans about to saying might surprise
some of you. So take a listen. Well, actually men
are twice as likely to get hoarding disorder than women are,
which is kind of interesting. Yeah, um, and um, so
it's it's primarily men. However, certainly there are plenty of women,

(13:31):
and women tend to come forward more often for treatment
than men do, just in general, they're more likely to
seek help. However, So in terms of differences, the it's
basically in what their interests are, what they want to collect.
You see more men collecting tools and items that they

(13:52):
can use to um, to fix things or you know,
scrap metal things like that. But but that I mean, certainly,
I'm sure there's a woman out there that's interested in
as well. In terms of um, you know, do they
collect different things? Again, it's just the interests or how
they collect it. I guess it's real question. There really

(14:14):
isn't any difference. They everyone has their different reasons for collecting.
So it might be security where they're trying to make
sure that they have something on hand that they might
need in the future, or it could be attachment to
a loved one. It's maybe somebody who has passed and
they are wanting to still remain connected to them or

(14:38):
a memory. So in terms of that, it might be sentimentality,
or it could be that they don't want to fill
up a landfill or contribute to pollution in any way.
So they take this responsibility of trying to collect items
and recycle them in just the right way, and then
they have difficulty actually following through with that. And that's

(15:01):
one of the harmark hallmarks too, is the difficulty following
through with their intentions. They've got these great intentions that
they're going to use this to create that, or that
they amass all this certain amount of information that they
may need in the future, that they can put it
in some kind of um orderly fashion that they can
access it, but the ability to actually follow through with

(15:24):
that is difficult for them typically, So we know that
men and women tend to hoard differently. They have different
kinds of pathologies when it comes to hoarding. But Molly
and I also wanted to know if Dr Beaton could
walk in and see the type of thing that someone
is hoarding. Say if they when she walks in and

(15:46):
sees my frog shelf, right, when she walks and sees
your frog shelf, or if she walks into someone's house
and sees like rose and Rose and Rose of Oh,
I don't know, like life magazines and take out container
takeout containers. Yet, what what can you tell about one
based on what he or she hoards? Does do those
items have some clues into the disorder? I first thought

(16:11):
you might think you could tell something about the collection, Like,
for example, if you come in and you see a
bunch of unused or used to go boxes that haven't
been thrown away, or a bunch of trash, you might think, oh,
you know, they have difficulty with you know, partying with anything,
and they don't wanna you know, a lot of them
really want to recycle, or they want to make sure

(16:34):
that the items are going to the right place. They
might think that they could be used someplace else or newspaper,
and you might think that the reason is because they
are not wanting to um, you know, create a greater
carbon footprint or something like that. However, it might actually
be that those newspapers that they've amassed are ones that

(16:57):
came in prior to two when their mother died, and
so it was it's actually sentimentality. So the biggest thing
is not making an assumption when you see the items
that this is why they're there. You have to talk
to them and find out. So tell me these significance
of these items, what's going on here. So at the
beginning of the podcast, we knowed that the main difference

(17:19):
between hoarding and collecting is a functional impairment. And then
the thing that really drives this hoarding behavior is the
psychological reward that someone gets from going out and finding
the item that they want and then getting it into
their possession, and it really sets up an addictive pattern
in their in their brain, not unlike a drug addiction

(17:43):
or an alcohol addiction. So when we were talking to
Dr Beaton about how you treat this hoarding behavior, especially
when it gets to the extreme point that you see
on Hoarding Buried Alive on t LC, you really do
have to and approach it. You really do have the
approach that you even like someone who say, has been
an alcoholic for for years and years. But it actually

(18:05):
reaches the point where some people will bottom out and
realize the extent of the impairment that they're living with,
or that's the point when the family members step in
and say, hey, you, you can't live like this anymore.
So we asked Darr Beaten to talk with us a
little bit about how hoarding does work like an addiction
and how someone can come out of that. I think

(18:27):
that they do bottom out and they realize, you know,
I can't get to my refrigerator anymore, and my health
is suffering because I'm not eating well. But that's ideal
if they realize it. Most of the time it has
to do with their family or loved ones around them
that are they can't take it anymore once they live
with or they're so concerned and that they cut off

(18:50):
their relationship with them, or just say I'm I'm I'm
not going to stay married to you any longer. That
usually is their bottom out. But if you think about addictions, says,
usually their bottom out too is when the people ruand
him stop enabling them, so that's often when you find
them come into treatment. So if if this is like
an addiction, you've got to ask the question, how do

(19:11):
you overcome this addiction? Is it different than overcoming a
drug addiction? And you know, I think that hoarding has
been on TV quite a bit now that you may
not even know how to do it without being on television.
So that's the question, how does someone overcome a hoarding addiction?
And what was really cool about this is Dr Beaton
used a specific example of someone she's worked with to

(19:32):
really illustrate it for us. So to take a listen
to this. M One person I worked with for TLC
was a professional skateboarder. He had been sober for twenty
two years UM from alcohol and drugs, and he we
The way I framed it with him was as an addiction,
so that he could treat this addiction, the hoarding addiction,

(19:53):
just as he did the other because he was so
successful in that and UM and a big component was
he he was afraid of being hurt again. He'd been
hurt several times and it was the hoarding really started
getting worse after his divorce and primarily after the loss
of his mother. So in particular for him, what we

(20:14):
needed to do was not only look at as an
as an addiction, so one day at a time was
critical and trying to be able to figure out those
triggers when he wanted to to use so to speak.
And for him it was getting online and purchasing skateboard
parts on online, and so he would get off work

(20:37):
in the evening. He worked like a swing shift. He'd
get off work and want to get online and start
buying you know, skateboard wheels and trucks and all these
different things. I never even knew what they were, but
I learned and he UM, And so what we had
to do is, first of all, do you know like

(20:58):
just you would with an addiction, one at a time.
And then he worked the program of trying to start
organizing and cleaning out things just like he did. Um,
he just like he did with his addiction. And so
UM in addition to that was relying on people and

(21:20):
asking for help because as I mentioned earlier, it comes
back to really what we call a psychologist an attachment disorder.
They are attached to belongings rather than people because people
have hurt them in one way or another. There was
some kind of traumatic event and people have hurt them,

(21:40):
so they end up with sort of a phobic, a
phobia of becoming close to individuals. So dealing up the
space and the time with belongings creates a distance from others,
and so a lot of line is what they The
healthiest thing they can do to fill up the void
is actually actually reach out for the support of individuals

(22:04):
of some even if it's just one person, and it
might be the therapist, it might be the organizer, somebody
that they can have a healthy attachment with, is the
best thing that they can do to actually heal the
original wound. But just like any addiction, Dr Beaton stress
the fact that it's critical to treat recovery from hoarding
as a step by step process. It's not an overnight switch.

(22:27):
You can't just walk in to someone's house. I can
just walk in, burn all of my mother's beanie babies
and tell her to have a nice day and feel
pat myself on the back for ridding her of that
of that burden. No, that's only going to perpetuate the cycle.
So Dr Beaton cause a real rift in your relationship,

(22:48):
and it would, yes, Uh So Dr Beaton went over
that that the time factor that's involved with overcoming hoarding behavior.
So it's really critical to always let the person make
the decision about their belongings. That you never want to
take something away from somebody and say this has got

(23:10):
to go, because first of all, that's gonna you're gonna
lose trust and the person is not gonna want to
let you help them anymore. They're going to feel violated
and re traumatized from whatever their loss was originally. And
um So helping them you know, kind of process through
it because obviously if they do have some processing issues,

(23:34):
then they need some help learning how to process. That's
one of the key things is I want to teach
them how to do it. I don't want to do
it for them. And so you know, helping them sort
through How often do you use this Do you think
you'll actually be able to um to do this intended

(23:54):
project with this item that you want to do? You know,
what's the evidence that you've actually done these things before
you actually follow through with them? When was the last
time you did did follow through with it? You know,
so you kind of help them learn to process it,
like it depends on the border, but you give them
like a set of questions they can ask themselves when
they're looking at an item, so that they can kind

(24:14):
of see, um, you know, is this something I really
need even if it's a memory? Um? Is she like?
You know when I worked with Judy Um the that
was for season one and um, she had a lot
of items that were from her boyfriend who died in

(24:35):
her house, right in front of her, and they were
like old flowers he had given her, you know, a
dozen roses. What we did was we took pictures of
things so that way she could keep pictures and she
didn't have to keep the actual item because it was
something it was mortant too, So there's different ways to
be creative about being able to keep the memory without
having to keep the item. Ideally, you want them to

(24:55):
be able to keep it in their mind and know
that it's always there if they want to access it,
But especially in the beginning, they're not sure that they
can actually do that. And you know, I think again,
when when you see hoarding on television so much, on
shows like Hoarding Buried Alive, you do think that it's
something that can be wrapped up in thirty minutes or
an hour, and so it's important to remember that, you know,

(25:16):
it is a time consuming process. It's not an overnight thing.
But but you know, why are there's so many shows
about this right now? Like why do we think this
is something that's getting wrapped up in thirty minutes or
an hour? And why do we want to watch this
try to be wrapped up? And and so we asked,
just we asked Dr Beaton, you know how this um
new obsession with hoarding has come about? And here's what

(25:37):
she had to say. I think it's primarily the media,
and that now that it's out and people are learning
about it, all of a sudden, people are realizing this
is what is going on with Uncle, Harry or mom
or whoever it may be. And and so that's why
it's gotten such attention. Now. On the one hand, I

(25:59):
could see a lot of positives with highlighting hoarding behavior
on television. Dr Beaton was saying that since people are
seeing it on TV, they're starting to recognize patterns with
them themselves or perhaps within a loved one. But on
the flip side of that, with all of the media exposure,
we wanted to know what kind of misconceptions about hoarding

(26:22):
and specifically recovery from hoarding might have arisen as a
result of it being portrayed on television and being covered
so much now in the media. And so this is
what Dr Beaton had to say about that. One thing
I love about working with CLC is they've been really

(26:42):
phenomenal about uh the individual and taking care of them
and whatever's best for them versus what's going to be
great for TV. And so they've gone really slowly with
the client because I think that's one of the misconceptions
is that you can go in and clean up a
house in a couple of days and the person can
start over and everything will be fine, and what um

(27:05):
what you find is that people will end up being
traumatized by that. It's like another loss for them. And
the idea of being able to slow it down and
realize this is really a marathon, not a sprint. It's
going to be a lifelong journey, just like an addiction,
where you have to take one day at a time

(27:26):
if you're gonna have backslides, and you have to keep
going forward, and that it's really something that they need
to work with their entire lives typically because they're gonna
have a propensity to want to collect again, and they're
gonna want to keep things and not throw them away.
So anyhow, um, I think the primary misconception is that
you can go in and just clean up a house

(27:47):
and the person is going to be okay, and it's
it's all over and bilblot their lives happily ever after.
That's just not the way it works. It's really really slow,
and I really appreciate Deals the way they've taken time
with clients. If they want to bring somebody in to
do like a big clean out, it's typically just you know,
it's over a period of a couple of months for starters,

(28:09):
it's not a weekend. Now. Again, the way we came
into contact with Dr Beaton is because you know, we
work for Discovery Communications and uh, we have this association
with TLC and the show holding Buried Alive. But what's
really cool if we made two to our own sister
channel's horn for a little bit, is that Dr Beaton
claims that TLC is so thrilled with follow up therapy

(28:29):
and care for the people who have been profiled on
the show, which I think is is really amazing because
you do have to wonder on any reality show what
happens after the cameras stop rolling, and uh, she really
appreciated the fact that she gets stored with these people
for for you know, a lot of time. You know,
it's not like she sees them for one show and
they're gone. And so as a result, there's some really

(28:51):
cool success stories, and she's going to share one with
us right now. I loved working with Benny out in
in Oakland. Um. He I mean, his house was the
worst I've ever seen and he's got it about halfway
cleared out. And to me, that's huge. Um. And the
biggest thing I love about I mean, I love all
I've really really cared about all the hoarders I've worked with.

(29:14):
But the where I see Ben he's made a great
success is that he he has not acquired. He stopped
acquiring since we started working with him. Actually the months
before we actually showed up the film, he he started
really working on not acquiring. He decided I gotta start now,
and so he's only bought one hat in the last

(29:35):
like six months. And he actually he's you know, he's
actually put himself in the situation, in the high risk situation,
if you will, like we talk about with addicts where
he actually goes into the discount stores or the flea
markets and he puts himself in the situation, kind of
plays around with things. He loves clothing, and um, that's

(29:57):
again where you can't stereotype who collects what, because he
collects more clothing than I've seen any woman ever click
and um, you know, and he'll play around with things
and try him on and he he forced himself to say,
that's all very nice, and I'm walking out now, and
so I think that's a huge success. And he continues
to chip away at it. It's just gonna take some
time because that house is full, and you know, he's

(30:20):
really made an excellent effort, and I feel really positive
about where he's going. So clearly it's people are watching
the show. They might be recognizing some hoarding patterns, like
we said, in their lives or loved one's life and perhaps,
you know, Molly listeners out there right now might be

(30:41):
listening to what Dr Beaton has to say and might
be thinking, maybe maybe I know someone that's going on.
So to close things out, we wanted to get some
final advice from Dr Beaten on what the first steps
on what someone should do if they think that they're
exhibiting hoarding behavior, or if they see that kind of

(31:02):
behavior and someone else. Because Dr Beaton's ultimate goal for
participating with Hoarding Baried Alive on t l C is
to provide an educational outlet and educational resource for people
out there's to help more people recover from hoarding behavior.
So from Dr Beaton, here's what you should do. Here's
your takeaway message about UM what to do if you

(31:25):
think that you might be struggling with hoarding behavior. If
you find a family member is exhibiting hoarding that it's
really critical to be your family member or friend it's
exhibiting hoarding and you want to work with them or
you know, people ask me all the time what should
I do? The first thing is be patient UM, and
then don't take the person's behavior personally. This is about them.

(31:49):
It's not about the fact that they don't care about
you enough that they are cluttering up the kitchen so
much that you can't get to the food. It's it's
not a personal thing. And UM. Also to build trust
with them so you can, like I said earlier, you
never want to take something away from somebody without their permission.
You want them to make the decision to actually put

(32:10):
it in the recycle ban UM, and then you don't
want to argue with them. Otherwise if you start arguing
with them, they'll just dig their hills in deeper. You
want to UM, as I said earlier too, you want
to provide reflection. So is this item really does it
fit into your long term goals? We always want to
find out what their goals are. So if their goals are,

(32:33):
you know, two people actually have a bedroom that they
can go in and actually sleep in. Then if they
want to keep sweaters, is this going to be interfere
with your goal to have all these sweaters? And UM,
So you're trying to keep them focused on the goal,
bring them back to that and UM provide reflection to

(32:54):
them gently pointing out that this current course of action
is not consistent with your overall goal and UM and
also encourage the person to get help from a qualified professional.
So often people want to try to take it into
their own hands and get the family to just come
in and clean everything out, and you definitely it's it's

(33:15):
worth at least making a consultation with the professional. What's
the best way to go about it? Sometimes they also
need an intervention, just like with an addiction, where the
family needs to sit around and and go through the
reasons why they're concerned, because often they don't have a
lot of insight about it and they don't realize how
bad it's become. It's such a gradual disorder for the

(33:36):
most part that they don't realize that this is really
impairing their functioning. And also to be prepared for relapses
that they are going to start collecting again at some point.
It's just part that's part of addiction treatment too, is
relapse is part of the treatment. It's part of the
course of treatment. You just keeping one step, you know,

(34:01):
two steps forward, one step back, three steps forward, two
steps back, as long as you continue to go forward.
So that was our conversation with Dr Beaton again. She's
on hoarding Barry to Live, which is on t LC,
and we hope it was helpful. We hope that if
you don't want to clean up your closet right now,
which I did after talking to her, you at least
took something away from it. We'd love to hear from

(34:21):
you guys about um hoarding behaviors. You've exhibit it. They've
seen other people exhibit. Uh, you know what role is
holding play on play in your life? All of that
we want to know. We we hoard your emails, you will,
but not in an unhealthy way. Well, here is one
of those emails only that we are speaking of. And

(34:43):
this is in response to our episode on why girls
Just Love horses? And this is from Becky. She writes,
I was never a horse girl. I've always been an
animal lover, but I was never particularly drawn to horses
or their environment. But I recently came up with eerie
that girls tend to fall into one of two categories,
horse girls or dolphin girls. I was a dolphin girl.

(35:08):
My dream as a ten year old was to be
the first person to learn the entire dolphin language. I
wanted to bridge the two worlds of the sea in
the land and create a harmony and a new understanding
between people and sea mammals. I also felt that because
of dolphins intelligence, I might be able to form a
meaningful relationship with a dolphin, and maybe even find a
dolphin who would be my bff. It seems to me

(35:29):
that in some ways my attraction to dolphins was probably
similar to some girls attraction to horses. I wanted to
ride dolphins through the open ocean and get that sense
of speed and freedom that comes from a creature that
is naturally so much faster and freer than myself. Maybe
it's just a question of environments. Good question, Becky, there's
something to you that. Yeah, I mean, what else is on?
Lisa Frank Trapper keepers, unicorns and dolphins? So true, so true?

(35:54):
So again. Our email is mom Stuff at how stuff
works dot com and Molly, do you have another one? Okay?
I thought that you were prepping you helping up mom
summit how stuff works dot com And as always, you
can head over to Facebook and like us over there,
follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and check
out our blog during the week as well. It's stuff

(36:15):
Mom Never told you, and you can find it at
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(36:36):
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