August 16, 2017 • 42 mins
Lisa Simpson is the smart, musically talented, mathematically-inclined, anti-capitalist, vegetarian, feminist hero we need - today and every day.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, it's Emily and you're listening to stuff Mom never
told you. I am super excited to talk about today.
Lisa Simpson, the one and only feminist hero, feminist icon.
(00:31):
I would go as far as to say, I'm a
hero here here and heroic. She's a total I mean,
I think Lisa has collectively uh, I has my collective
projected hopes, dreams, ambitions and admiration on so many levels.
I am the first sudmit that I'm a big Simpsons fan.
(00:51):
It was on often in my in my household growing up,
we would plan dinner time around the Simpsons. Yeah seven
or you know something, sit dad and watch the Simpsons
and eat a family meal. Totally, dinner had to be
over by the time the new Simpsons was coming on
um and the Simpsons as a show is truly extraordinary
and rare in a lot of different ways. This is
(01:13):
not an episode all about the Simpsons. This is an
episode specifically about the character Lisa. And for those of
you who are like I hate the Simpsons, or I
hate cartoons, or you want to lump the Simpsons in
with Futurama and South Park and a lot of other
cartoons made for adults, don't tune out just yet. I'm
here to make the case that the Simpsons are very
(01:34):
unique and stand out in a truly different way, and
that Lisa Simpsons a big part of what makes the
Simpsons so great. So the Simpsons for those not familiar,
it's an American animated television sitcom starring the Simpson family,
which is Lisa and Bart, who are the youngest kids.
The dad is Horn. Maggie credentials under fire on the show.
(01:57):
They always forget about magic. That is of the I
am just she's absorbed the family dynamics of the show.
I watched it so much so. It was created by
Mac Groening Um. He conceded the characters in the lobby
of James L. Brooks's office and named them after his
own family members, substituting Bart for his own name, which
(02:17):
is really sweet um. It debuted as a series of
shorts on The Tracy Ullman Show in April of nineteen seven.
So if you go back and watch those old Tracy
Ullman versions, they're they're drawn so jankly. They're not they
don't really look like the characters that we know and
love today. And The Simpsons debuted on Fox December seventeenth, nine,
(02:38):
and it was an early early hit on Fox. And
it was the first show on Fox to land in
the top thirty ratings in a season, and this was
in nine. Yeah, it was a runaway success. And the
Simpsons have stuck around. I think that a huge formative
part of many a millennials childhood because now they've become
the longest running American sitcom overall all sitcoms, which I
find fascinating. This isn't just the longest running cartoon, the
(03:01):
longest running American sitcom. Um Back in two thousand and nine,
it surpassed gun Smoke as the longest running American prime
time scripted TV series. Two so since when they debuted
on prime Time, the show's broadcast six hundred and eighteen episodes.
For those of you like me who spent your summer
binge watching them all thanks to f x X, do
(03:23):
you know that you can watch them all on demand?
It's insane. And they heard that they purchased the rights
for all of the Simpsons episodes to be played like
one after the other for a couple of million dollars
per episode. Yes, I remember very distinctly. FX f x
X was doing the Every Simpsons Ever marathon, and it
was a special time for me. I just love their
(03:45):
promos because if someone could just play their promos for me,
that would be great, because they were usually like mathematical arrays,
you know, it's not raised tessellations. Yeah, there's a lot
of weird Simpson Like, what's the word stoner art? Yeah,
you're probably looking for a more like intellectual term. I'm
(04:05):
trying to think of the word psychedelic, but stoner arn't
totally encapsulates it. So here's why I think the Simpsons
are so great, and here's why I think Lisa Simpson
is so important because still today we have a dearth
of strong female characters on TV, and Lisa Simpson is
exactly that. She's a precocious eight year old daughter, a
(04:28):
perpetually eight year old daughter in the show, which is
part of what makes the Simpson so magical. And she's outspoken,
she's an activist, she's vocal, but she's also and I
think this is part of what makes her so appealing.
She's imperfect, she's human, she has her down days, she
has her ego and pride too, So we get to
(04:49):
see her as a strong female character in a daughter
role as strong as a little girl can be at
eight years old and then some, but also shown in
a pretty weak light in a world where air. Uh.
There really has been little forward movement for girls in
the media in over six decades. According to the Gina
(05:09):
Davis Institute on Gender and Media, for nearly sixty years,
gender inequality on screen has remained largely unchanged and unchecked.
Without an educational voice and force for change, the level
of imbalance is likely to stay the same or worse
in and that change is pretty bad when you looked
at the numbers, right being, Yeah, it's pretty bad of
(05:32):
film and TV narrators are male. The Institute's research indicates
that some groups see in some group scenes only sevent
of characters are female. These absences are unquestionably felt by audiences,
particularly children, who learned to accept the stereotypes that are
represented there. So, you know, when they see these these things,
being women being underrepresented in media, they really accepted. You
(05:53):
think you grow up thinking that male identified people are
the norm, and that if you are not a male
identified person you are somehow abnormal because you don't see
yourself represented. Yeah, it's almost like I specifically remember not
always viewing myself as the main character in my life?
Were you a side character? I was a supporting cast member,
And I don't I'm not saying that like that was
(06:16):
a thing I really intellectualized, but I definitely I think
it took a lot of growing up for me to
see myself as the protagonist of my own story because
as a woman, I think we're often defined by our relationships,
like I am with this person, I'm part of this family,
I'm part of this whereas men are literally presented as
(06:36):
the main character and a lot of stuff. Even amongst
the top grossing G rated family films, girl characters are
outnumbered by boys three to one, and so something that
Gina typically says Gina Davis and her research points out
is that if girls can't see it, they can't be it.
And I love the fact that I just want to
(06:56):
sort of set up the fact that talk about Lisa
Simpson is actually important and characters like Lisa Simpson are
more than just entertaining and wonderful, They're important. Yeah. The
research shows that you know, you need you People need
to see themselves represented on screen, whether it's Little Girls,
whether it's Transpolkes, whether it's people of color, It doesn't
(07:17):
matter who you are. In order to internalize that you
matter and that your stories matter, you need to see
those stories represented in books, on screen and all of that.
And so it's not just it may sound like it's
just throwaway pop culture, but it actually really makes a
difference in people's lives definitely. And some people might say, well,
you know, the Simpsons debuted in nine. That might have
been true then, but haven't things improved? And unfortunately they
(07:41):
haven't very much. Even though there's this great quote um
from a study called boxed in two thousand fifteen two
thousand sixteen Women on Screen and behind the Scenes in Television,
in which this Think Progress piece that unpacks that studies says, quote,
anyone paying attention to the television scene can probably rattle
off a fleet of high profile female writers, directors, and
(08:04):
show numbers. And I would add in characters, we've seen
more female characters, no doubt. However, laws In the author
of the study found that programs in our study featured
casts with more male than female characters. The women only
comprised thirty nine percent of all speaking characters, and most damningly,
the percentage of female characters featured on a broadcast network
(08:27):
program has not increased over the last decade. So we've
got a long way to go, y'all. We have not
come as far as maybe it feels like we have
when you actually look at the numbers. Right, So let's
talk a little bit about why we love Lisa Simpson. Um.
I think this Babe article puts it perfectly, um, and
I love how they describe her. Lisa is a smart, talking,
musically talented, witty, anti capitalist, philanthropic, moral, feminist, and ecological
(08:51):
apostle which we have always had and will always need.
And I love that. Right. Growing up, Lisa was this
figure who was allowed to be political and activisty and um,
but still was this like sweet, precocious little girl. And
it was sort of subtle the way the writers wrote
her in right. They didn't pigeonhole her as an activist,
(09:13):
but she her activism sort of came out in everyday
exchanges in a way that it truly does in real life.
You know what I mean. It's just like having a
woke kid. Yeah, you don't. People don't really at least
people that I know, don't really walk around you know, um,
proclaiming they're that they're involved in some sort of activist crusade.
It just comes out when you talk to them. And
(09:34):
I think over the years that we've gotten to know Lisa,
it's just sort of whether it's her. You know, vegetarianism,
you know, when friends with salad, Emily, is that a Lisa?
That's a homewor quote? You know when friends with salad?
You know, when friends with salad. This is that you
can unpack as a vegan, you can unpack that whole episode.
Are you Gonna Marry a Carrot? Really good? You're pulling
(09:57):
all these like great quotes that I'm not picking out
at all. This is like my this was this is
a microclass of my whole life quoting the Simpsons and
people looking at me like I have three heads. That's
so sad because I love the Simpsons, but I don't
have the memory, Like I cannot remember quotes. There was
a time in my older brother's life when I think
he solely communicated in Simpsons quotes. That was his main
(10:17):
We should talk, Yeah, shout out to Alex, Alex, call
me Alex. I also love the this Babe article because
they go on to say, listen, Lisa is the ultimate
role model, because although she has both the desire and
capacity to change the world, her strengths and talents are attainable.
She's relatable. She too, is fraught with insecurities and doubts
(10:39):
about her own self, image, and intelligence. All of these
serve to highlight and reinforce the issues that she challenges.
Most TV shows feature beautiful female characters who are flawless
in both their appearance and confidence. The Simpsons contested these
notions with Lisa to reassure and comfort your young girls everywhere.
I love that so much, and I think they put
(10:59):
it perfectly. I remember when Lisa was struggling with an
eating disorder in an episode where she's trying to be
a dancer. Um, I remember her starting to smoke. I remember,
and I think you know, growing up, I always had
this thing where I actually hated female characters who were
(11:21):
these perfect little angels. They had this great, shiny hair
that looked perfect all the time. They never messed up,
they never did the wrong thing. Um. I mean one
of my favorite shows is The Gilmore Girls, and I
always felt that Rory Gilmore, as much as I love her,
was a little too perfectably and when she screwed up
it was as if the entire town was like exploded, like,
(11:45):
oh my god, Rory made a mistake. And I disliked
that Lisa got to be how we really are, right.
She was good and tried really hard and was really smart,
but also failed, also had an ego, as also had
her problem. It's just like all of us. And one
of my favorite things about Lisa. This says a lot
about I think us first of all, like this is
again I'm protecting all of my childhood self onto Lisa.
(12:07):
But there's an article um that in reading about Lisa,
just to be reminded of all of her awesomeness, I
was reminded that she's an overachiever and she's cool with it.
But obviously Lisa is like the class teacher's pet. Obviously
she's always raising her hand, she's always answering question, she's
always overperforming, but she gets grief for it. And that's
(12:29):
important because the show doesn't pretend like she lives in
a world in which women who overachieved are treated very nicely.
So I like that she's kind of a dork. She
kind of embraces it, you know, she wasn't ashamed of
being an overachiever. Lisa hat she joined MENSA. Remember that
episode she was the best musician in the jazz band.
(12:50):
She had a high I q. Um. You know, she's
sort of taught girls that it's never too early to
aspire to greatness and that effort is a worthy thing. Yeah,
I like. I like that so much. And I'm still
reminded of her quote, Um, why is it that a
woman that when a woman is competent and powerful they
call her a witch? Right, Like, that's exactly it. I
also love I mean, this really is. And I think
(13:13):
the two poles of Lisa something could not be more
Bridget and Emily because I I like that she was
a screw up sometimes let her ego get the better
of her sometimes. I'm reminded of the episode where, um,
she gets a new neighbor, Allison, who is better at
the saxophone, and so she drums up this like intense
competition with her and it actually ends up being terrible
(13:35):
for her, and I mean and she's like, oh, Alison's
actually fine. Um, Well, she like had a lesson about
female competition and not being the best at everything right,
and she kind of hated Alison. She steals her diorama
and replaces. It's like the parable what is that? Um
Edgar Allan Poe story? That that right, because there's a
(13:57):
lot of guilt because she basically does something morally because
she's jealous and envious of this totally so called friend
of totally and identify with that so much because you know,
growing up something. When when I was studying literature and
unpacking these things at the academic level, one of the
things I noticed is that we don't celebrate things like meanness, pettiness, spitefulness,
(14:20):
and those are the everybody. It doesn't matter how nice
you are. Everyone is petty, mean, jealous, and we when
a character has those qualities, we write them off as
a bad And I'm so much I mean, I'm a petty,
spiteful person in all the ways, but I'm so much
more interested in characters that are real in these ways. Well,
I think that's the genius of the show writers is
that they allow these characters to be admirable and hilariously bad, right,
(14:45):
Like they're so bad it's funny. Um, They're complex in
that way. There are a lot of specific episodes in
which uh, Lisa wins our hearts over that we are
going to dive into right after a quick word from
our sponsors, and we're back and we're excited to dive
(15:09):
even deeper into our little analysis here of what makes
Lisa Simpson such a fun character. But before we go,
sort of episode by episode, there's this tension we want
to really underscore. That's a healthy tension. It's not a
huge part of the storyline, but this tension between Lisa's
sort of emblematic third wave feminism that might be most
(15:34):
resonant for millennials or gen xers, but Marge, on the
other hand, is really representative of second wave feminism in
a lot of ways. We see in some flashbacks from
college Marge that she definitely has attended her fair share
of feminist protests. At one point she burns her bra, right,
which I find hilarious and side note, that's not actually
a historical, historically accurate thing that feminists did, but the
(15:58):
reputation still stand, and Marge apparently burned her bra for
what that's worth, So we've seen that for sure. I
think what's funny is there's a healthy tension between the
two of them that was brilliantly broken down in this
article from bitch media dot Org called how Marge Simpson
raised Springfield's Favorite Feminist by Mary Grace Garris. So what
(16:23):
I love about this article is they really nicely highlight
this kind of healthy tension that that Lisa and Marge
sometimes have. And I see this reflected a lot in
UM the current the current feminist landscape, where you have
a lot of younger women who are really are younger feminists,
who are really advocating for this intersectional uh brand of
(16:44):
feminism that a lot of perhaps baby boomer generation feminists
might not be so familiar with. And so I think
you see a lot of that. There's this great quote
Lisa is indicative of that hand in many jars thing
that we tend to strive for. We're attempting to be
ultra inclusive, to strive a large personal accomplishments, and too,
for lack of a better term, have it all. Marge, however,
(17:05):
is an emblem of what happened to a portion of
baby boom or second waivers. She isn't preoccupied with a
lot of political issues, and while she does openly acknowledge
the inequality between the sexes on a basic level, it's
simply not a priority for her. UM and this quote,
I think really highlights that that sort of tension for me,
that you have a generation of feminists who are recognizing
(17:27):
the importance of advocating and speaking up on issues that
perhaps are not necessarily specific to your own self. So
whether it's issues of you know, um, trans women or
rural women or poor women or you know, disabled women,
understanding why it's important to advocate for those for women
who are not like yourself. Um, I feel like Marge
(17:48):
maybe we'll be cool with that on a certain level,
but it's not something that is a real priority for her.
She's like the idea of equality in general, but isn't
going to be out there, you know, making noise in
those kinds of ways. The ways at least definitely is right.
And Lisa's eco feminism, her vegetarianism sort of it Listits
a bunch of eye rolls from Marge, right. I feel
(18:09):
like Marge is the Betty Draper, like pre feminist revolution.
She probably read the feminist mystique and was all about it,
you know what I mean. It's kind of funny in
how she is pro woman in a lot of ways,
but isn't an activist at all about it. And if
I mean to be clear, she's a housewife, right. She's
(18:30):
not that you can't be a feminist housewife, but I
find it an activist housewife or an activist housewife. Absolutely.
And the the labor that goes unpaid done by women
in the home, including Marge, often goes unappreciated, Which is
funny because this article goes on to say, quote, while
her generation fought so hard to get into the workplace
and established their independence from men, something fell by the wayside,
(18:53):
i e. Getting pregnant with bart and she spends most
of her time making beds and cleaning up after Homer's mess.
She continues in this great article to say, for what
it's worth, Marge chose the life of a homemaker. Sure,
she'll get a one episode job every few seasons, like
when she became a police officer. Yes, when she became
a painter, she painted that. Yeah, she's had some gigs.
(19:15):
She's had some pretty cool gigs. I love it. Um,
she in the gig economy, Oh, large Simpson and the
gig economy. I love it. So while she'll get one
episode job every few seasons, and she has a sublimated
frustration about her family's lack of appreciation for her workload,
but most of the time she contently owns the domestic sphere.
(19:35):
Quote it must be exciting to make a different set
of beds, Lisa deadpans in Summer of four ft two
when the family goes on vacation to a summer home.
I know you're joking, but it is, Marge replies, shippers ever,
I just love one of my favorite quotes. Actually, that's
one of my favorite episodes. So this is the episode
where where Lisa gets funky. She wears a different outfit
and she wants to be cool and Milhouse sees her
(19:57):
with with a backward hat and he says, it's Lisa
and she looks like Blossom. I say that probably once
a week. Is this what she wears? Sunglasses that are
like circular tied a shirt, backward hat and like broken socks.
Everybody has those moments, everybody has those summers. But that
we're going to try a new identity and like you
you what I love about the show is that you
(20:19):
do see Lisa try these things on and she she
finds herself and you get to watch it on screen,
just like we were saying before. It's great. Yeah, and
what's cool about this This article and that that sort
of identity shift that Marge goes through and that Lisa
goes through is it's never a done deal. They're constantly
sort of fluctuating their feminist ideologies and they come come
to head on occasion. Um. I like how Lisa pushes
(20:42):
back on her mom sometimes and her mom sort of
rolls her eyes that are sometimes it feels a lot
like my mom and a lot of older second wave
feminists that I know and have a kind of roll
their eyes at um. Young feminists who maybe supported Bernie
in the primary, for instance, and we're not feeling all
the uh, all the Clinton love and and the sort
(21:04):
of just fallen in line because you know, they felt
like they were expected to because she was a woman.
And I mean, it's it's definitely there's definitely attention there.
There's definitely attention. Um. This is a kind of a
throwaway line in an episode, but so Lisa, her vegetarianism
is a big thing on the show. And I remember
an episode where I think it's when they're getting a nanny.
(21:25):
Marge is explaining how to cook for Lisa, and she says,
I've been trying to sneak a little bit of meat
into Lisa's food every now and right, And I thought
that was so funny, and it really kind of it's
a throwaway line, but it highlights that that sort of
tension that Marge feels with Lisa, where she loves her,
she loves how independent and fierce and you know, proud
(21:46):
she is, but she also wants to sort of bring
her down to earth a little bit. And that is
exactly what my mother's reaction to my veganism was, by
the way, was to lovingly try to persuade me not
to become a vegan. So I feel like there's definitely
only The author in this article relates her mom's second
wave feminism to her experience of Marge versus Lisa on
(22:07):
these fronts that I find that so so perfect. So
let's talk a little bit about um, Lisa's vegetarianism, because
it's the butt of a lot of jokes. Yes, do
you remember the episode where she becomes a vegetarian? I
don't really remember. It was yesterday. Doesn't like it right away? Right,
she was feeling like she was struggling, I think, yeah,
So in the episode this is a real old one,
Um she goes to this is when she's a meat eater.
(22:29):
She goes to a petting zoo with her family and
she's having a great time. She's petting these lambs and
they're so cute and she loves them. And then she
goes home and she's on this high from petting all
the animals and her mom makes lamb chop and she
realizes and she's watching her family like tear into them,
like you know, Homer eats, and she thinks, oh, these
(22:50):
are the same lambs that I that I was just petting.
These could be the same lambs. And she has this
one of those great Simpsons dream sequences where it's actually
like like a lamb I'm on the plate bang at her.
And that's when she becomes a vegetarian. Her family is
totally against it, her dad in order to spite so
it's almost if you listen to our vegan episode, it
(23:10):
is the kind of thing where her family feels very defensive.
They feel like they're saying, you know, you are not
a good person because you eat meat. So Homer has
this huge meat party with a fuckling pig and blah
blah blah. I think it's a good episode. Well. According
to Bustles article on nine ways that Lisa is the
(23:32):
ultimate feminist. She actually finds sort of support and help
in some of famous like some of the world's actual
famous vegetarians, including Paul McCartney. Yes, she goes to the
quickie market because who is a vegetarian and he's hosting
like a vegetarian meet up or something. It's McCartney. Oh,
I see what you did there. You love your puns, Yeah,
(23:56):
she and that's one of my uh yeah, that's a
really good thing for that episode. And she makes I
will never forget. She brings in, um, what's that Russian
tomato soups? She brings in a pot of borsch to
this meat party, and she says it's borish and I've
got enough for everyone another classically sid I love it.
(24:16):
And I feel like the moral of the story is like,
you can have unpopular opinions, you can hold your values
close to your heart and live your life that way,
and it can be lonely at times, but then you
can also find a community of people who share your
values and maybe Paul McCartney will be there, right, And
that's the goodness. That's like the wholesome goodness of the Simpsons.
(24:37):
As raunchy as that show can get sometimes, which I
know turns off some of my right wing relatives who
forbid their children from watching The Simpsons. Wow, they thought
it was like filthy, and it definitely has its dirty, edgy,
super hyper liberal moments, But at the end of the day,
I think there's always a wholesome lesson to be learned. Well,
that's why. That's one of the things that I so
(24:59):
I I should say, I'm someone who loves cartoons. If
it's a cartoon, I watch it. I'm that nerdy person
loves Carl Love, I watched them all. I love Futurama,
I love Bob's Burgers, I love Rick and Morty. Um. Really,
there's not If it's a it's a cartoon, I'm already
sort of sold. I love animation. Um. And So I
think that's something that sets the Simpsons apart from shows
(25:22):
like Family Guy or shows like South Park, where I
do feel like the reason why I keep coming back
to it is this, not I don't want to say wholesomeness,
but that at the end of the day, each episode
it underscores that this is a family that really loves
each other and if they have each other's backs, and
that even if they fight, even if Bart chokes, you know,
are a home or chart, they still really love each other.
(25:44):
And I something and this. People are gonna call me
out on this, and that's fine, It's just my opinion. Um.
The thing I hate about Family Guy, and I hate
a lot. I hate a lot about that show. But
the thing I don't like is how awful they are
to that to the daughter character Meg for no realities,
and she's just the punching bag of the show and
it's supposed to be funny exactly, And so the Simpsons,
(26:04):
I mean, this is Seth mcfarlan's like, go to Yes,
that's his jam. He's not exactly what we might call
a feminist. I have a lot of bones to pick
with him, I guess I'll say, Um, but yeah, you
would never even if Bart, even if Bart and Lisa fight,
even if Marge and Lisa clash, at the end of
the day, this is a show about a family that
really cares for each other and loves each other, and
(26:27):
it really that family dynamic. I feel like one of
the reasons why as a family we loved the show
is because that reflects our dynamic in my own family
right where we drive each other up the wall, We
make each other want to scream, We don't get along.
We have a million opinions, were always arguing, but at
the end of the day, we love each other. That
nobody's business will always be there for each other. And
(26:49):
I feel like I don't see that on shows like
Family Guy. True, I would agree. Let's take a quick
break and when we come back, we'll talk through some
of our other favorite moments of Lisa Simpson's feminism. And
(27:11):
we're back and we are loving talking about Lisa Simpson.
I feel like you and I are just quoting Simpson's
quotes back to each other, back and forth to each
other totally, which I could do all day. I could
do all day. You know, it's interesting Lisa doesn't actually
have a catchphrase quote yeah, like not eat my shorts, yeah,
or dope. Oh yeah, that's right. Marge has her Wait
(27:33):
what was that again? People are like, oh, my earbuds, sorry,
I p your eardrums. That's so true. Well, we don't
have a catch hrase either. True, So we got we'll
work on that and we'll get maybe Lesa will inspire
catch I honestly think we should try to include as
many Lisa Simpson quotes in our All Future Podcasts and
(27:53):
all everything and about it completely. So what is one
of your favorite episodes? That's a great question. There's so
many to choose from. My favorite is probably the episode
where it's Lisa versus Malibu Stacy. Um, Malibu Stacey is
a it's kind of a Barbie esque doll figure that
is very popular. Um fun fact in Springfield, Wayland. Smithers
(28:18):
is like this huge Barbie collector, which I love. But
that which one is? She's Mr Burns is uh that's
his first name. Yeah, I'm so familiar. I were on
a first name basis. Wow, that's a big deal for Smithers. Yeah,
I'm like, wait, is that his son? No? Wait, that's
definitely okay. So what I love about that episode is,
again it really highlights this sort of feminist crusader that
(28:41):
little Lisa is. And so even though she loves Malibu Stacey,
she's so excited to get the new doll when it's
the talking doll. When you pull the string, it talks,
and so she's like, oh wow, I've been waiting to
hear her voice, hear her speak for this whole time.
She this is very Lisa. She builds a little model
you in diorama, and she sets her up at a
podium and she says, the world has been waiting to
(29:03):
hear your voice, Malibu Stacy, and she pulls the string
and Malibu Stacy says, don't ask me. I'm just a
girl like this weird laugh um, And Lisa's horrified, and
she says, you know a generation of little girls who's
going to think that this is what it means to
be a woman. And if not, she goes to the
creator of Malibu Stacy's house play voiced by Kathleen Turner.
(29:28):
So she's got this sultry voice, which I love, um,
and she works with her to create a new doll,
what she calls Lisa Lyon Heard and it's supposed to
be a talking doll who says things like believe in
yourself and you can do anything, um. And it's great.
And so it actually kind of has a bittersweet ending
because all these little girls are excited for this doll,
(29:48):
um for Lisa's doll to come out, and Malibu Stacy
ends up kind of stealing her thunder by they they
the company re releases the doll with a new hat
and so everyone goes boggers with a doll. But then
she sees one little girl pick up Lisa lionheart and
pull the string and she says, believe in yourself and
you can do anything. It ends on such a nice,
(30:10):
nice note. It's cute, and I feel like Barbie Company,
the Barbie Company, Mattel's ears must have been burning. This
was a while ago now, and I know that Mattel
did a major, major rebrand in the last couple of
years to be more inclusive and to be more feminist. Really,
and the Barbie said they were putting out. So it's
(30:30):
funny to see Lisa the Little Advocate have a voice
in that matter. Definitely, you can't draw a direct linear
connection between the two, but it's good to see that
they were calling out the creators of Malibu Stacy because
she said things like, let's mix a drink for the gentleman, right,
did you say some horrible stuff? And again, you really
(30:51):
that episode, there's a there's a tidbit where Lisa is
really annoyed at thinks the doll says. One of the
things that she says is let's just drown our sorrows
in a big bowl of strawberry ice cream. And so
when Lisa is trying to explain to Marge why this
is offensive, Marge says some something along the lines of,
you know, don't get so upset about that. How about
we all drown our sorrows and a big bowl of
(31:12):
ice creams? And she was like, Mom, you're saying the
same thing, is dog? Um yeah, So I just I
think that is so great, And I think you're right.
I think that. I mean, you certainly can't draw and
we're not trying to draw a direct correlation between that
episode and Mattel sort of becoming more inclusive. But you
know what, do you really have Mattel making Ava du
Varney Barbie dolls, which I own? Um, you know, if
(31:34):
it wasn't for folks like the Simpsons, you know, Lisa
Simpson calling them out for for being a little bit shallow.
I love it. I love it. One of my favorite
like single lines that Lisa delivers was just a subtle,
subtle mention, um, when Marge becomes a police officer. And
we mentioned earlier in the show that we're going to
(31:54):
talk about this because it's one of those subtle, subversive
lines that the Simpsons creators give of to Lisa to
sort of deliver in the middle of a show that's
about something very different and in it. Um when Marge
becomes a cop, Lisa vocalizes her concerns about the prison
system while on a tour of on a tour led
by her mother of the Springfield police station. Um, So,
(32:17):
Lisa goes, Mom, I know your intentions are good, but
aren't the police the protective force that maintains the status
quo for the wealthy elite. Don't you think we got
to attack the roots of the social problems instead of
jamming people into overcrowded prisons, Which is like not a
line that any eight year old actually delivered, But I
love that they give it to her, and Lisa's not Lisa.
(32:38):
But Marge's response is to make her hand puppet exactly
like using a hand puppet to be like, hey, Lisa,
help me bite crime rough rough, which of course reminds
us all of Scruff mcgraff of our early years how
they started to educate our generation on the police. So
(33:00):
I just like those kinds of lines Man in Prime Time,
just delivered, just snuck it in there. I think it's
just a perfect example of how the show's creators use
Lisa as this voice of reason. I love it. And
speaking of prime time like buns coming, let's talk about
what a big role math played on the show. This
(33:21):
was surprising to me. I had no idea that all
of a lot of the creators of The Simpsons actually
have a really sophisticated math degrees. And one of the
things they talked about on the show is how Lisa
is the most sort of rational quote unquote in a
math way h character and how her kind of interest
in math and science and the stem fields can really
be a sort of good thing for girls. Um. I
(33:43):
found this great quote when I talked to school kids
about the mathematics hidden in The Simpsons. I always stressed
Lisa's character because she is such a great role model
for girls who might be budding geeks or nascent nerds.
And that's from Simon seeing the author of this really
great book, The Simpsons and their Mathematical Secrets, which I
love because there's a ton of math like subtly included
in The Simpsons since the very first episode, almost one
(34:06):
thousand percent of which has flown over my head because
I'm pretty sure that like high level math jokes that
the Simpsons include just never quite makes sense to me.
But what's less subtle is their use of Lisa as
being the um, the character who uses math to her
advantage most often so. For example, she took her little
league baseball team to the championship with the help of statistics.
(34:29):
She became kind of like a bookie. Of course, I
think Homer ended up abusing her skills. She delivers a
paper at the twelfth Annual Big Science Thing, which is
their school science fair, on airborne pheromones and aggression in bullies,
which I think is so perfect for the show. I
love it. I love it. And then she goes on
(34:49):
to use math to help improve Bart's golf game, and
when a bunch of benches fall on Lisa in the
school gymnasium at one point in an episode, Principal Skinner
cries out, she's been so have the hopes of our
athletics team. I love it. UM Also sort of building
off of that, the show actually taps into real world
I guess math controversies. I don't know if you guys
(35:12):
remember Laurence Summers, who was the president of Harvard University
who at one point during its tenure, and I think
this actually led to him, you know, having to step down.
He basically suggested that the lack of women in stem
fields was due to biology. He was opposed to other factors,
and this caused a huge outcry and he stepped down.
And so then later a year later, after this whole firestorm,
(35:35):
this was sort of um satirized on The Simpsons. The
episode is called girls Just Want to Have Some whim
pretty hilarious. Skinner declares, from what I've seen, boyzardous better
at math science, the real subject, and after a hate campaign,
he's replaced with a sort of feminist radical educator who
(35:56):
kind of not only gets Lisa more involved in math,
but then sort of also indoctrinates her further into her
feminist ideology. Right, But what I found so fascinating with
that is she basically ends up rejecting Melanie Lightfoot, the
feminist educationalist as they call her, because she rejects that
she needs a different kind of math. So Melanie in
that show and that in that episode, basically says, well, Lisa,
(36:19):
we want to teach you a more feminist version of math,
and Lisa, following in the footsteps of Sophie Jermaine the
great eighteenth century French mathematician who was forced to adopt
a male pseudonym. Uh. She disguises herself and joins the
lesson intended for the boys, so they split boys and
girls up for math teaching, which I think is absurd,
(36:39):
and in doing so, she proves that she is indeed
the best mathematician in the class um and and sort
of it leaves that episode in somewhat of unresolved territory,
like many right right, right right. So they didn't go
as far as to address things in that episode like
the gender gap of women in math and what Lisa
(37:02):
thinks it's due to. But when interviewed and asked that
question as to why the writers didn't make Lisa come
to a conclusion, they basically said they didn't want to
deliver some kind of simplistic or glib conclusion. Neither did
they want to get in what they called quote skinner
like trouble for coming down on either side of the issue.
That's so funny to me, because I mean, the Simpsons
(37:24):
always seems to other shows I feel like, get involved
in controversy for saying the wrong thing or having the
wrong message. I don't feel like the Simpsons does that.
I don't know. I mean, I'm such an avid fan
that I probably wouldn't come across Simpson's hate. But I
bet his episode will in gender some dialogue on that.
I'm sure they've gotten it wrong in the past. But
at the end of that episode, girls just want to
(37:45):
have sums. Lisa declares, whatever the reason is, I'm glad
I'm a girl, and I'm glad I'm good at math,
which I think is It's kind of a nice way
to tie it up again. I love that their episodes
end with such a heartwarming, you know, a good message
typically I love of now. One of my other favorite
components of Lisa is her musical talents. So not only
(38:07):
is she a mathematical genius, but she's also a whiz
on the saxophone. And this is important because the Financial
Times found in two thousand seventeen that around nine seven
percent of orchestra members in the horns section are male.
So Lisa playing the saxophone doesn't seem like a very
radical thing um, but in fact it is. And it's
(38:29):
such an anomaly that the writers actually made her play
the saxophone because they just thought it would be kind
of funny to see an eight year old girl sort
of wrestling with this unwieldy baritone saxophone, which is extra
extra large, right, And what is the best part of
this whole thing is that in a six article in
(38:50):
The New York Times, they basically came to the conclusion
that there was something of a Simpson's saxophone bump amongst
little girls. The more little girl were playing with sax
because of Lisa Simpson exactly. They quote this grade school
saxophone teacher, Cynthia Sykes, who remarked that quote. When the
show started, I got an influx of girls coming up
(39:10):
to me saying, I want to play the saxophone because
Lisa Simpson plays the saxophone. She goes. I had no
clue who this Lisa Simpson was, but I was relieved
to find out she had a permanent gig over there.
I love it. Bleeding Gums Murphy would be proud. So
in case you thought we could get through one Sminty
episode without talking about Donald Trump, think again, Trump be
(39:31):
aller Trump Alert trigger warning slash Trump Alert. He shows
up in this one to um. The Simpsons actually kind
of predicted a kind of way Trump becoming president. In
the episode where Lisa's is having her future predicted she's
president of the United States, she calls herself the first
straight female president of the United States, which that was
(39:52):
like a radical addition to that line totally that they
didn't have to include, but I love that they did totally. Um.
So she's speaking about her presidential predecessor and she says
to her cabinet, I know he inherited a mess from
President Trump, and here we are seventeen and that's come
to fruition. I know, I love this. It's the episode
(40:13):
Bart to the Future and Lisa basically sits down and says,
you know, I know we're tasked with cleaning up the
national debt caused by the presidency of Donald Trump, which
just makes me want to vote Lisa Simpson all the way. Oh,
I would totally vote Lisa Simpson. I would vote Lisa Simpson.
And then I would have my dream female character line
(40:35):
up with the Lisa Simpson as president VP VP. Maybe Daria,
no exactly who it is, um Jody from Daria, the
black character who is very very into school. She would
be my my VP. She would be a brilliant I
think maybe Daria could be Um Secretary of State. Uh,
maybe for calms director. This is really fun. Um Meg,
(40:59):
oh Meg, I want met to get some love. Yeah.
Maybe Department of Defense. Yeah, oh I like that. That's good. Um.
The girl who played um Spinelli on the show Recess,
she might be Department of Defense her. This is fun. Remember, hey, Arnold,
Oh do I helda gotta get her in the mix?
Oh my god, Siminthy listeners, please tell us who else
(41:20):
should be in the ideal Lisa Simpson for president cabinet? Um.
I cannot wait to hear what you come up with.
I hope you've enjoyed this as much as we have.
I feel like we could talk about Lisa Simpson all day,
but she has hashtag goals when it comes to family
dynamic like you were mentioning earlier before the break, and
just being an outspoken feminist no matter your age, no
(41:41):
matter your size. She sort of proves that you can
be more than what people expect from you. So we
want to hear from you. Tell us your ideal cartoon character,
presidential cabinet lineup. Tell us what Lisa Simpson meant for you.
Maybe you didn't watch Simpsons and you had a different
you know cartoon feminist icon growing up. We want to
(42:03):
hear it all. You can get up with us on
Instagram at stuff mom Ever Told You, on Twitter at
mom Stuff Podcast, or a good old fashion email at
mom stuff at how stuff works dot com
Hey, it's Emily and you're listening to stuff Mom never
told you. I am super excited to talk about today.
Lisa Simpson, the one and only feminist hero, feminist icon.
(00:31):
I would go as far as to say, I'm a
hero here here and heroic. She's a total I mean,
I think Lisa has collectively uh, I has my collective
projected hopes, dreams, ambitions and admiration on so many levels.
I am the first sudmit that I'm a big Simpsons fan.
(00:51):
It was on often in my in my household growing up,
we would plan dinner time around the Simpsons. Yeah seven
or you know something, sit dad and watch the Simpsons
and eat a family meal. Totally, dinner had to be
over by the time the new Simpsons was coming on
um and the Simpsons as a show is truly extraordinary
and rare in a lot of different ways. This is
(01:13):
not an episode all about the Simpsons. This is an
episode specifically about the character Lisa. And for those of
you who are like I hate the Simpsons, or I
hate cartoons, or you want to lump the Simpsons in
with Futurama and South Park and a lot of other
cartoons made for adults, don't tune out just yet. I'm
here to make the case that the Simpsons are very
(01:34):
unique and stand out in a truly different way, and
that Lisa Simpsons a big part of what makes the
Simpsons so great. So the Simpsons for those not familiar,
it's an American animated television sitcom starring the Simpson family,
which is Lisa and Bart, who are the youngest kids.
The dad is Horn. Maggie credentials under fire on the show.
(01:57):
They always forget about magic. That is of the I
am just she's absorbed the family dynamics of the show.
I watched it so much so. It was created by
Mac Groening Um. He conceded the characters in the lobby
of James L. Brooks's office and named them after his
own family members, substituting Bart for his own name, which
(02:17):
is really sweet um. It debuted as a series of
shorts on The Tracy Ullman Show in April of nineteen seven.
So if you go back and watch those old Tracy
Ullman versions, they're they're drawn so jankly. They're not they
don't really look like the characters that we know and
love today. And The Simpsons debuted on Fox December seventeenth, nine,
(02:38):
and it was an early early hit on Fox. And
it was the first show on Fox to land in
the top thirty ratings in a season, and this was
in nine. Yeah, it was a runaway success. And the
Simpsons have stuck around. I think that a huge formative
part of many a millennials childhood because now they've become
the longest running American sitcom overall all sitcoms, which I
find fascinating. This isn't just the longest running cartoon, the
(03:01):
longest running American sitcom. Um Back in two thousand and nine,
it surpassed gun Smoke as the longest running American prime
time scripted TV series. Two so since when they debuted
on prime Time, the show's broadcast six hundred and eighteen episodes.
For those of you like me who spent your summer
binge watching them all thanks to f x X, do
(03:23):
you know that you can watch them all on demand?
It's insane. And they heard that they purchased the rights
for all of the Simpsons episodes to be played like
one after the other for a couple of million dollars
per episode. Yes, I remember very distinctly. FX f x
X was doing the Every Simpsons Ever marathon, and it
was a special time for me. I just love their
(03:45):
promos because if someone could just play their promos for me,
that would be great, because they were usually like mathematical arrays,
you know, it's not raised tessellations. Yeah, there's a lot
of weird Simpson Like, what's the word stoner art? Yeah,
you're probably looking for a more like intellectual term. I'm
(04:05):
trying to think of the word psychedelic, but stoner arn't
totally encapsulates it. So here's why I think the Simpsons
are so great, and here's why I think Lisa Simpson
is so important because still today we have a dearth
of strong female characters on TV, and Lisa Simpson is
exactly that. She's a precocious eight year old daughter, a
(04:28):
perpetually eight year old daughter in the show, which is
part of what makes the Simpson so magical. And she's outspoken,
she's an activist, she's vocal, but she's also and I
think this is part of what makes her so appealing.
She's imperfect, she's human, she has her down days, she
has her ego and pride too, So we get to
(04:49):
see her as a strong female character in a daughter
role as strong as a little girl can be at
eight years old and then some, but also shown in
a pretty weak light in a world where air. Uh.
There really has been little forward movement for girls in
the media in over six decades. According to the Gina
(05:09):
Davis Institute on Gender and Media, for nearly sixty years,
gender inequality on screen has remained largely unchanged and unchecked.
Without an educational voice and force for change, the level
of imbalance is likely to stay the same or worse
in and that change is pretty bad when you looked
at the numbers, right being, Yeah, it's pretty bad of
(05:32):
film and TV narrators are male. The Institute's research indicates
that some groups see in some group scenes only sevent
of characters are female. These absences are unquestionably felt by audiences,
particularly children, who learned to accept the stereotypes that are
represented there. So, you know, when they see these these things,
being women being underrepresented in media, they really accepted. You
(05:53):
think you grow up thinking that male identified people are
the norm, and that if you are not a male
identified person you are somehow abnormal because you don't see
yourself represented. Yeah, it's almost like I specifically remember not
always viewing myself as the main character in my life?
Were you a side character? I was a supporting cast member,
And I don't I'm not saying that like that was
(06:16):
a thing I really intellectualized, but I definitely I think
it took a lot of growing up for me to
see myself as the protagonist of my own story because
as a woman, I think we're often defined by our relationships,
like I am with this person, I'm part of this family,
I'm part of this whereas men are literally presented as
(06:36):
the main character and a lot of stuff. Even amongst
the top grossing G rated family films, girl characters are
outnumbered by boys three to one, and so something that
Gina typically says Gina Davis and her research points out
is that if girls can't see it, they can't be it.
And I love the fact that I just want to
(06:56):
sort of set up the fact that talk about Lisa
Simpson is actually important and characters like Lisa Simpson are
more than just entertaining and wonderful, They're important. Yeah. The
research shows that you know, you need you People need
to see themselves represented on screen, whether it's Little Girls,
whether it's Transpolkes, whether it's people of color, It doesn't
(07:17):
matter who you are. In order to internalize that you
matter and that your stories matter, you need to see
those stories represented in books, on screen and all of that.
And so it's not just it may sound like it's
just throwaway pop culture, but it actually really makes a
difference in people's lives definitely. And some people might say, well,
you know, the Simpsons debuted in nine. That might have
been true then, but haven't things improved? And unfortunately they
(07:41):
haven't very much. Even though there's this great quote um
from a study called boxed in two thousand fifteen two
thousand sixteen Women on Screen and behind the Scenes in Television,
in which this Think Progress piece that unpacks that studies says, quote,
anyone paying attention to the television scene can probably rattle
off a fleet of high profile female writers, directors, and
(08:04):
show numbers. And I would add in characters, we've seen
more female characters, no doubt. However, laws In the author
of the study found that programs in our study featured
casts with more male than female characters. The women only
comprised thirty nine percent of all speaking characters, and most damningly,
the percentage of female characters featured on a broadcast network
(08:27):
program has not increased over the last decade. So we've
got a long way to go, y'all. We have not
come as far as maybe it feels like we have
when you actually look at the numbers. Right, So let's
talk a little bit about why we love Lisa Simpson. Um.
I think this Babe article puts it perfectly, um, and
I love how they describe her. Lisa is a smart, talking,
musically talented, witty, anti capitalist, philanthropic, moral, feminist, and ecological
(08:51):
apostle which we have always had and will always need.
And I love that. Right. Growing up, Lisa was this
figure who was allowed to be political and activisty and um,
but still was this like sweet, precocious little girl. And
it was sort of subtle the way the writers wrote
her in right. They didn't pigeonhole her as an activist,
(09:13):
but she her activism sort of came out in everyday
exchanges in a way that it truly does in real life.
You know what I mean. It's just like having a
woke kid. Yeah, you don't. People don't really at least
people that I know, don't really walk around you know, um,
proclaiming they're that they're involved in some sort of activist crusade.
It just comes out when you talk to them. And
(09:34):
I think over the years that we've gotten to know Lisa,
it's just sort of whether it's her. You know, vegetarianism,
you know, when friends with salad, Emily, is that a Lisa?
That's a homewor quote? You know when friends with salad?
You know, when friends with salad. This is that you
can unpack as a vegan, you can unpack that whole episode.
Are you Gonna Marry a Carrot? Really good? You're pulling
(09:57):
all these like great quotes that I'm not picking out
at all. This is like my this was this is
a microclass of my whole life quoting the Simpsons and
people looking at me like I have three heads. That's
so sad because I love the Simpsons, but I don't
have the memory, Like I cannot remember quotes. There was
a time in my older brother's life when I think
he solely communicated in Simpsons quotes. That was his main
(10:17):
We should talk, Yeah, shout out to Alex, Alex, call
me Alex. I also love the this Babe article because
they go on to say, listen, Lisa is the ultimate
role model, because although she has both the desire and
capacity to change the world, her strengths and talents are attainable.
She's relatable. She too, is fraught with insecurities and doubts
(10:39):
about her own self, image, and intelligence. All of these
serve to highlight and reinforce the issues that she challenges.
Most TV shows feature beautiful female characters who are flawless
in both their appearance and confidence. The Simpsons contested these
notions with Lisa to reassure and comfort your young girls everywhere.
I love that so much, and I think they put
(10:59):
it perfectly. I remember when Lisa was struggling with an
eating disorder in an episode where she's trying to be
a dancer. Um, I remember her starting to smoke. I remember,
and I think you know, growing up, I always had
this thing where I actually hated female characters who were
(11:21):
these perfect little angels. They had this great, shiny hair
that looked perfect all the time. They never messed up,
they never did the wrong thing. Um. I mean one
of my favorite shows is The Gilmore Girls, and I
always felt that Rory Gilmore, as much as I love her,
was a little too perfectably and when she screwed up
it was as if the entire town was like exploded, like,
(11:45):
oh my god, Rory made a mistake. And I disliked
that Lisa got to be how we really are, right.
She was good and tried really hard and was really smart,
but also failed, also had an ego, as also had
her problem. It's just like all of us. And one
of my favorite things about Lisa. This says a lot
about I think us first of all, like this is
again I'm protecting all of my childhood self onto Lisa.
(12:07):
But there's an article um that in reading about Lisa,
just to be reminded of all of her awesomeness, I
was reminded that she's an overachiever and she's cool with it.
But obviously Lisa is like the class teacher's pet. Obviously
she's always raising her hand, she's always answering question, she's
always overperforming, but she gets grief for it. And that's
(12:29):
important because the show doesn't pretend like she lives in
a world in which women who overachieved are treated very nicely.
So I like that she's kind of a dork. She
kind of embraces it, you know, she wasn't ashamed of
being an overachiever. Lisa hat she joined MENSA. Remember that
episode she was the best musician in the jazz band.
(12:50):
She had a high I q. Um. You know, she's
sort of taught girls that it's never too early to
aspire to greatness and that effort is a worthy thing. Yeah,
I like. I like that so much. And I'm still
reminded of her quote, Um, why is it that a
woman that when a woman is competent and powerful they
call her a witch? Right, Like, that's exactly it. I
also love I mean, this really is. And I think
(13:13):
the two poles of Lisa something could not be more
Bridget and Emily because I I like that she was
a screw up sometimes let her ego get the better
of her sometimes. I'm reminded of the episode where, um,
she gets a new neighbor, Allison, who is better at
the saxophone, and so she drums up this like intense
competition with her and it actually ends up being terrible
(13:35):
for her, and I mean and she's like, oh, Alison's
actually fine. Um, Well, she like had a lesson about
female competition and not being the best at everything right,
and she kind of hated Alison. She steals her diorama
and replaces. It's like the parable what is that? Um
Edgar Allan Poe story? That that right, because there's a
(13:57):
lot of guilt because she basically does something morally because
she's jealous and envious of this totally so called friend
of totally and identify with that so much because you know,
growing up something. When when I was studying literature and
unpacking these things at the academic level, one of the
things I noticed is that we don't celebrate things like meanness, pettiness, spitefulness,
(14:20):
and those are the everybody. It doesn't matter how nice
you are. Everyone is petty, mean, jealous, and we when
a character has those qualities, we write them off as
a bad And I'm so much I mean, I'm a petty,
spiteful person in all the ways, but I'm so much
more interested in characters that are real in these ways. Well,
I think that's the genius of the show writers is
that they allow these characters to be admirable and hilariously bad, right,
(14:45):
Like they're so bad it's funny. Um, They're complex in
that way. There are a lot of specific episodes in
which uh, Lisa wins our hearts over that we are
going to dive into right after a quick word from
our sponsors, and we're back and we're excited to dive
(15:09):
even deeper into our little analysis here of what makes
Lisa Simpson such a fun character. But before we go,
sort of episode by episode, there's this tension we want
to really underscore. That's a healthy tension. It's not a
huge part of the storyline, but this tension between Lisa's
sort of emblematic third wave feminism that might be most
(15:34):
resonant for millennials or gen xers, but Marge, on the
other hand, is really representative of second wave feminism in
a lot of ways. We see in some flashbacks from
college Marge that she definitely has attended her fair share
of feminist protests. At one point she burns her bra, right,
which I find hilarious and side note, that's not actually
a historical, historically accurate thing that feminists did, but the
(15:58):
reputation still stand, and Marge apparently burned her bra for
what that's worth, So we've seen that for sure. I
think what's funny is there's a healthy tension between the
two of them that was brilliantly broken down in this
article from bitch media dot Org called how Marge Simpson
raised Springfield's Favorite Feminist by Mary Grace Garris. So what
(16:23):
I love about this article is they really nicely highlight
this kind of healthy tension that that Lisa and Marge
sometimes have. And I see this reflected a lot in
UM the current the current feminist landscape, where you have
a lot of younger women who are really are younger feminists,
who are really advocating for this intersectional uh brand of
(16:44):
feminism that a lot of perhaps baby boomer generation feminists
might not be so familiar with. And so I think
you see a lot of that. There's this great quote
Lisa is indicative of that hand in many jars thing
that we tend to strive for. We're attempting to be
ultra inclusive, to strive a large personal accomplishments, and too,
for lack of a better term, have it all. Marge, however,
(17:05):
is an emblem of what happened to a portion of
baby boom or second waivers. She isn't preoccupied with a
lot of political issues, and while she does openly acknowledge
the inequality between the sexes on a basic level, it's
simply not a priority for her. UM and this quote,
I think really highlights that that sort of tension for me,
that you have a generation of feminists who are recognizing
(17:27):
the importance of advocating and speaking up on issues that
perhaps are not necessarily specific to your own self. So
whether it's issues of you know, um, trans women or
rural women or poor women or you know, disabled women,
understanding why it's important to advocate for those for women
who are not like yourself. Um, I feel like Marge
(17:48):
maybe we'll be cool with that on a certain level,
but it's not something that is a real priority for her.
She's like the idea of equality in general, but isn't
going to be out there, you know, making noise in
those kinds of ways. The ways at least definitely is right.
And Lisa's eco feminism, her vegetarianism sort of it Listits
a bunch of eye rolls from Marge, right. I feel
(18:09):
like Marge is the Betty Draper, like pre feminist revolution.
She probably read the feminist mystique and was all about it,
you know what I mean. It's kind of funny in
how she is pro woman in a lot of ways,
but isn't an activist at all about it. And if
I mean to be clear, she's a housewife, right. She's
(18:30):
not that you can't be a feminist housewife, but I
find it an activist housewife or an activist housewife. Absolutely.
And the the labor that goes unpaid done by women
in the home, including Marge, often goes unappreciated, Which is
funny because this article goes on to say, quote, while
her generation fought so hard to get into the workplace
and established their independence from men, something fell by the wayside,
(18:53):
i e. Getting pregnant with bart and she spends most
of her time making beds and cleaning up after Homer's mess.
She continues in this great article to say, for what
it's worth, Marge chose the life of a homemaker. Sure,
she'll get a one episode job every few seasons, like
when she became a police officer. Yes, when she became
a painter, she painted that. Yeah, she's had some gigs.
(19:15):
She's had some pretty cool gigs. I love it. Um,
she in the gig economy, Oh, large Simpson and the
gig economy. I love it. So while she'll get one
episode job every few seasons, and she has a sublimated
frustration about her family's lack of appreciation for her workload,
but most of the time she contently owns the domestic sphere.
(19:35):
Quote it must be exciting to make a different set
of beds, Lisa deadpans in Summer of four ft two
when the family goes on vacation to a summer home.
I know you're joking, but it is, Marge replies, shippers ever,
I just love one of my favorite quotes. Actually, that's
one of my favorite episodes. So this is the episode
where where Lisa gets funky. She wears a different outfit
and she wants to be cool and Milhouse sees her
(19:57):
with with a backward hat and he says, it's Lisa
and she looks like Blossom. I say that probably once
a week. Is this what she wears? Sunglasses that are
like circular tied a shirt, backward hat and like broken socks.
Everybody has those moments, everybody has those summers. But that
we're going to try a new identity and like you
you what I love about the show is that you
(20:19):
do see Lisa try these things on and she she
finds herself and you get to watch it on screen,
just like we were saying before. It's great. Yeah, and
what's cool about this This article and that that sort
of identity shift that Marge goes through and that Lisa
goes through is it's never a done deal. They're constantly
sort of fluctuating their feminist ideologies and they come come
to head on occasion. Um. I like how Lisa pushes
(20:42):
back on her mom sometimes and her mom sort of
rolls her eyes that are sometimes it feels a lot
like my mom and a lot of older second wave
feminists that I know and have a kind of roll
their eyes at um. Young feminists who maybe supported Bernie
in the primary, for instance, and we're not feeling all
the uh, all the Clinton love and and the sort
(21:04):
of just fallen in line because you know, they felt
like they were expected to because she was a woman.
And I mean, it's it's definitely there's definitely attention there.
There's definitely attention. Um. This is a kind of a
throwaway line in an episode, but so Lisa, her vegetarianism
is a big thing on the show. And I remember
an episode where I think it's when they're getting a nanny.
(21:25):
Marge is explaining how to cook for Lisa, and she says,
I've been trying to sneak a little bit of meat
into Lisa's food every now and right, And I thought
that was so funny, and it really kind of it's
a throwaway line, but it highlights that that sort of
tension that Marge feels with Lisa, where she loves her,
she loves how independent and fierce and you know, proud
(21:46):
she is, but she also wants to sort of bring
her down to earth a little bit. And that is
exactly what my mother's reaction to my veganism was, by
the way, was to lovingly try to persuade me not
to become a vegan. So I feel like there's definitely
only The author in this article relates her mom's second
wave feminism to her experience of Marge versus Lisa on
(22:07):
these fronts that I find that so so perfect. So
let's talk a little bit about um, Lisa's vegetarianism, because
it's the butt of a lot of jokes. Yes, do
you remember the episode where she becomes a vegetarian? I
don't really remember. It was yesterday. Doesn't like it right away? Right,
she was feeling like she was struggling, I think, yeah,
So in the episode this is a real old one,
Um she goes to this is when she's a meat eater.
(22:29):
She goes to a petting zoo with her family and
she's having a great time. She's petting these lambs and
they're so cute and she loves them. And then she
goes home and she's on this high from petting all
the animals and her mom makes lamb chop and she
realizes and she's watching her family like tear into them,
like you know, Homer eats, and she thinks, oh, these
(22:50):
are the same lambs that I that I was just petting.
These could be the same lambs. And she has this
one of those great Simpsons dream sequences where it's actually
like like a lamb I'm on the plate bang at her.
And that's when she becomes a vegetarian. Her family is
totally against it, her dad in order to spite so
it's almost if you listen to our vegan episode, it
(23:10):
is the kind of thing where her family feels very defensive.
They feel like they're saying, you know, you are not
a good person because you eat meat. So Homer has
this huge meat party with a fuckling pig and blah
blah blah. I think it's a good episode. Well. According
to Bustles article on nine ways that Lisa is the
(23:32):
ultimate feminist. She actually finds sort of support and help
in some of famous like some of the world's actual
famous vegetarians, including Paul McCartney. Yes, she goes to the
quickie market because who is a vegetarian and he's hosting
like a vegetarian meet up or something. It's McCartney. Oh,
I see what you did there. You love your puns, Yeah,
(23:56):
she and that's one of my uh yeah, that's a
really good thing for that episode. And she makes I
will never forget. She brings in, um, what's that Russian
tomato soups? She brings in a pot of borsch to
this meat party, and she says it's borish and I've
got enough for everyone another classically sid I love it.
(24:16):
And I feel like the moral of the story is like,
you can have unpopular opinions, you can hold your values
close to your heart and live your life that way,
and it can be lonely at times, but then you
can also find a community of people who share your
values and maybe Paul McCartney will be there, right, And
that's the goodness. That's like the wholesome goodness of the Simpsons.
(24:37):
As raunchy as that show can get sometimes, which I
know turns off some of my right wing relatives who
forbid their children from watching The Simpsons. Wow, they thought
it was like filthy, and it definitely has its dirty, edgy,
super hyper liberal moments, But at the end of the day,
I think there's always a wholesome lesson to be learned. Well,
that's why. That's one of the things that I so
(24:59):
I I should say, I'm someone who loves cartoons. If
it's a cartoon, I watch it. I'm that nerdy person
loves Carl Love, I watched them all. I love Futurama,
I love Bob's Burgers, I love Rick and Morty. Um. Really,
there's not If it's a it's a cartoon, I'm already
sort of sold. I love animation. Um. And So I
think that's something that sets the Simpsons apart from shows
(25:22):
like Family Guy or shows like South Park, where I
do feel like the reason why I keep coming back
to it is this, not I don't want to say wholesomeness,
but that at the end of the day, each episode
it underscores that this is a family that really loves
each other and if they have each other's backs, and
that even if they fight, even if Bart chokes, you know,
are a home or chart, they still really love each other.
(25:44):
And I something and this. People are gonna call me
out on this, and that's fine, It's just my opinion. Um.
The thing I hate about Family Guy, and I hate
a lot. I hate a lot about that show. But
the thing I don't like is how awful they are
to that to the daughter character Meg for no realities,
and she's just the punching bag of the show and
it's supposed to be funny exactly, And so the Simpsons,
(26:04):
I mean, this is Seth mcfarlan's like, go to Yes,
that's his jam. He's not exactly what we might call
a feminist. I have a lot of bones to pick
with him, I guess I'll say, Um, but yeah, you
would never even if Bart, even if Bart and Lisa fight,
even if Marge and Lisa clash, at the end of
the day, this is a show about a family that
really cares for each other and loves each other, and
(26:27):
it really that family dynamic. I feel like one of
the reasons why as a family we loved the show
is because that reflects our dynamic in my own family
right where we drive each other up the wall, We
make each other want to scream, We don't get along.
We have a million opinions, were always arguing, but at
the end of the day, we love each other. That
nobody's business will always be there for each other. And
(26:49):
I feel like I don't see that on shows like
Family Guy. True, I would agree. Let's take a quick
break and when we come back, we'll talk through some
of our other favorite moments of Lisa Simpson's feminism. And
(27:11):
we're back and we are loving talking about Lisa Simpson.
I feel like you and I are just quoting Simpson's
quotes back to each other, back and forth to each
other totally, which I could do all day. I could
do all day. You know, it's interesting Lisa doesn't actually
have a catchphrase quote yeah, like not eat my shorts, yeah,
or dope. Oh yeah, that's right. Marge has her Wait
(27:33):
what was that again? People are like, oh, my earbuds, sorry,
I p your eardrums. That's so true. Well, we don't
have a catch hrase either. True, So we got we'll
work on that and we'll get maybe Lesa will inspire
catch I honestly think we should try to include as
many Lisa Simpson quotes in our All Future Podcasts and
(27:53):
all everything and about it completely. So what is one
of your favorite episodes? That's a great question. There's so
many to choose from. My favorite is probably the episode
where it's Lisa versus Malibu Stacy. Um, Malibu Stacey is
a it's kind of a Barbie esque doll figure that
is very popular. Um fun fact in Springfield, Wayland. Smithers
(28:18):
is like this huge Barbie collector, which I love. But
that which one is? She's Mr Burns is uh that's
his first name. Yeah, I'm so familiar. I were on
a first name basis. Wow, that's a big deal for Smithers. Yeah,
I'm like, wait, is that his son? No? Wait, that's
definitely okay. So what I love about that episode is,
again it really highlights this sort of feminist crusader that
(28:41):
little Lisa is. And so even though she loves Malibu Stacey,
she's so excited to get the new doll when it's
the talking doll. When you pull the string, it talks,
and so she's like, oh wow, I've been waiting to
hear her voice, hear her speak for this whole time.
She this is very Lisa. She builds a little model
you in diorama, and she sets her up at a
podium and she says, the world has been waiting to
(29:03):
hear your voice, Malibu Stacy, and she pulls the string
and Malibu Stacy says, don't ask me. I'm just a
girl like this weird laugh um, And Lisa's horrified, and
she says, you know a generation of little girls who's
going to think that this is what it means to
be a woman. And if not, she goes to the
creator of Malibu Stacy's house play voiced by Kathleen Turner.
(29:28):
So she's got this sultry voice, which I love, um,
and she works with her to create a new doll,
what she calls Lisa Lyon Heard and it's supposed to
be a talking doll who says things like believe in
yourself and you can do anything, um. And it's great.
And so it actually kind of has a bittersweet ending
because all these little girls are excited for this doll,
(29:48):
um for Lisa's doll to come out, and Malibu Stacy
ends up kind of stealing her thunder by they they
the company re releases the doll with a new hat
and so everyone goes boggers with a doll. But then
she sees one little girl pick up Lisa lionheart and
pull the string and she says, believe in yourself and
you can do anything. It ends on such a nice,
(30:10):
nice note. It's cute, and I feel like Barbie Company,
the Barbie Company, Mattel's ears must have been burning. This
was a while ago now, and I know that Mattel
did a major, major rebrand in the last couple of
years to be more inclusive and to be more feminist. Really,
and the Barbie said they were putting out. So it's
(30:30):
funny to see Lisa the Little Advocate have a voice
in that matter. Definitely, you can't draw a direct linear
connection between the two, but it's good to see that
they were calling out the creators of Malibu Stacy because
she said things like, let's mix a drink for the gentleman, right,
did you say some horrible stuff? And again, you really
(30:51):
that episode, there's a there's a tidbit where Lisa is
really annoyed at thinks the doll says. One of the
things that she says is let's just drown our sorrows
in a big bowl of strawberry ice cream. And so
when Lisa is trying to explain to Marge why this
is offensive, Marge says some something along the lines of,
you know, don't get so upset about that. How about
we all drown our sorrows and a big bowl of
(31:12):
ice creams? And she was like, Mom, you're saying the
same thing, is dog? Um yeah, So I just I
think that is so great, And I think you're right.
I think that. I mean, you certainly can't draw and
we're not trying to draw a direct correlation between that
episode and Mattel sort of becoming more inclusive. But you
know what, do you really have Mattel making Ava du
Varney Barbie dolls, which I own? Um, you know, if
(31:34):
it wasn't for folks like the Simpsons, you know, Lisa
Simpson calling them out for for being a little bit shallow.
I love it. I love it. One of my favorite
like single lines that Lisa delivers was just a subtle,
subtle mention, um, when Marge becomes a police officer. And
we mentioned earlier in the show that we're going to
(31:54):
talk about this because it's one of those subtle, subversive
lines that the Simpsons creators give of to Lisa to
sort of deliver in the middle of a show that's
about something very different and in it. Um when Marge
becomes a cop, Lisa vocalizes her concerns about the prison
system while on a tour of on a tour led
by her mother of the Springfield police station. Um, So,
(32:17):
Lisa goes, Mom, I know your intentions are good, but
aren't the police the protective force that maintains the status
quo for the wealthy elite. Don't you think we got
to attack the roots of the social problems instead of
jamming people into overcrowded prisons, Which is like not a
line that any eight year old actually delivered, But I
love that they give it to her, and Lisa's not Lisa.
(32:38):
But Marge's response is to make her hand puppet exactly
like using a hand puppet to be like, hey, Lisa,
help me bite crime rough rough, which of course reminds
us all of Scruff mcgraff of our early years how
they started to educate our generation on the police. So
(33:00):
I just like those kinds of lines Man in Prime Time,
just delivered, just snuck it in there. I think it's
just a perfect example of how the show's creators use
Lisa as this voice of reason. I love it. And
speaking of prime time like buns coming, let's talk about
what a big role math played on the show. This
(33:21):
was surprising to me. I had no idea that all
of a lot of the creators of The Simpsons actually
have a really sophisticated math degrees. And one of the
things they talked about on the show is how Lisa
is the most sort of rational quote unquote in a
math way h character and how her kind of interest
in math and science and the stem fields can really
be a sort of good thing for girls. Um. I
(33:43):
found this great quote when I talked to school kids
about the mathematics hidden in The Simpsons. I always stressed
Lisa's character because she is such a great role model
for girls who might be budding geeks or nascent nerds.
And that's from Simon seeing the author of this really
great book, The Simpsons and their Mathematical Secrets, which I
love because there's a ton of math like subtly included
in The Simpsons since the very first episode, almost one
(34:06):
thousand percent of which has flown over my head because
I'm pretty sure that like high level math jokes that
the Simpsons include just never quite makes sense to me.
But what's less subtle is their use of Lisa as
being the um, the character who uses math to her
advantage most often so. For example, she took her little
league baseball team to the championship with the help of statistics.
(34:29):
She became kind of like a bookie. Of course, I
think Homer ended up abusing her skills. She delivers a
paper at the twelfth Annual Big Science Thing, which is
their school science fair, on airborne pheromones and aggression in bullies,
which I think is so perfect for the show. I
love it. I love it. And then she goes on
(34:49):
to use math to help improve Bart's golf game, and
when a bunch of benches fall on Lisa in the
school gymnasium at one point in an episode, Principal Skinner
cries out, she's been so have the hopes of our
athletics team. I love it. UM Also sort of building
off of that, the show actually taps into real world
I guess math controversies. I don't know if you guys
(35:12):
remember Laurence Summers, who was the president of Harvard University
who at one point during its tenure, and I think
this actually led to him, you know, having to step down.
He basically suggested that the lack of women in stem
fields was due to biology. He was opposed to other factors,
and this caused a huge outcry and he stepped down.
And so then later a year later, after this whole firestorm,
(35:35):
this was sort of um satirized on The Simpsons. The
episode is called girls Just Want to Have Some whim
pretty hilarious. Skinner declares, from what I've seen, boyzardous better
at math science, the real subject, and after a hate campaign,
he's replaced with a sort of feminist radical educator who
(35:56):
kind of not only gets Lisa more involved in math,
but then sort of also indoctrinates her further into her
feminist ideology. Right, But what I found so fascinating with
that is she basically ends up rejecting Melanie Lightfoot, the
feminist educationalist as they call her, because she rejects that
she needs a different kind of math. So Melanie in
that show and that in that episode, basically says, well, Lisa,
(36:19):
we want to teach you a more feminist version of math,
and Lisa, following in the footsteps of Sophie Jermaine the
great eighteenth century French mathematician who was forced to adopt
a male pseudonym. Uh. She disguises herself and joins the
lesson intended for the boys, so they split boys and
girls up for math teaching, which I think is absurd,
(36:39):
and in doing so, she proves that she is indeed
the best mathematician in the class um and and sort
of it leaves that episode in somewhat of unresolved territory,
like many right right, right right. So they didn't go
as far as to address things in that episode like
the gender gap of women in math and what Lisa
(37:02):
thinks it's due to. But when interviewed and asked that
question as to why the writers didn't make Lisa come
to a conclusion, they basically said they didn't want to
deliver some kind of simplistic or glib conclusion. Neither did
they want to get in what they called quote skinner
like trouble for coming down on either side of the issue.
That's so funny to me, because I mean, the Simpsons
(37:24):
always seems to other shows I feel like, get involved
in controversy for saying the wrong thing or having the
wrong message. I don't feel like the Simpsons does that.
I don't know. I mean, I'm such an avid fan
that I probably wouldn't come across Simpson's hate. But I
bet his episode will in gender some dialogue on that.
I'm sure they've gotten it wrong in the past. But
at the end of that episode, girls just want to
(37:45):
have sums. Lisa declares, whatever the reason is, I'm glad
I'm a girl, and I'm glad I'm good at math,
which I think is It's kind of a nice way
to tie it up again. I love that their episodes
end with such a heartwarming, you know, a good message
typically I love of now. One of my other favorite
components of Lisa is her musical talents. So not only
(38:07):
is she a mathematical genius, but she's also a whiz
on the saxophone. And this is important because the Financial
Times found in two thousand seventeen that around nine seven
percent of orchestra members in the horns section are male.
So Lisa playing the saxophone doesn't seem like a very
radical thing um, but in fact it is. And it's
(38:29):
such an anomaly that the writers actually made her play
the saxophone because they just thought it would be kind
of funny to see an eight year old girl sort
of wrestling with this unwieldy baritone saxophone, which is extra
extra large, right, And what is the best part of
this whole thing is that in a six article in
(38:50):
The New York Times, they basically came to the conclusion
that there was something of a Simpson's saxophone bump amongst
little girls. The more little girl were playing with sax
because of Lisa Simpson exactly. They quote this grade school
saxophone teacher, Cynthia Sykes, who remarked that quote. When the
show started, I got an influx of girls coming up
(39:10):
to me saying, I want to play the saxophone because
Lisa Simpson plays the saxophone. She goes. I had no
clue who this Lisa Simpson was, but I was relieved
to find out she had a permanent gig over there.
I love it. Bleeding Gums Murphy would be proud. So
in case you thought we could get through one Sminty
episode without talking about Donald Trump, think again, Trump be
(39:31):
aller Trump Alert trigger warning slash Trump Alert. He shows
up in this one to um. The Simpsons actually kind
of predicted a kind of way Trump becoming president. In
the episode where Lisa's is having her future predicted she's
president of the United States, she calls herself the first
straight female president of the United States, which that was
(39:52):
like a radical addition to that line totally that they
didn't have to include, but I love that they did totally. Um.
So she's speaking about her presidential predecessor and she says
to her cabinet, I know he inherited a mess from
President Trump, and here we are seventeen and that's come
to fruition. I know, I love this. It's the episode
(40:13):
Bart to the Future and Lisa basically sits down and says,
you know, I know we're tasked with cleaning up the
national debt caused by the presidency of Donald Trump, which
just makes me want to vote Lisa Simpson all the way. Oh,
I would totally vote Lisa Simpson. I would vote Lisa Simpson.
And then I would have my dream female character line
(40:35):
up with the Lisa Simpson as president VP VP. Maybe Daria,
no exactly who it is, um Jody from Daria, the
black character who is very very into school. She would
be my my VP. She would be a brilliant I
think maybe Daria could be Um Secretary of State. Uh,
maybe for calms director. This is really fun. Um Meg,
(40:59):
oh Meg, I want met to get some love. Yeah.
Maybe Department of Defense. Yeah, oh I like that. That's good. Um.
The girl who played um Spinelli on the show Recess,
she might be Department of Defense her. This is fun. Remember, hey, Arnold,
Oh do I helda gotta get her in the mix?
Oh my god, Siminthy listeners, please tell us who else
(41:20):
should be in the ideal Lisa Simpson for president cabinet? Um.
I cannot wait to hear what you come up with.
I hope you've enjoyed this as much as we have.
I feel like we could talk about Lisa Simpson all day,
but she has hashtag goals when it comes to family
dynamic like you were mentioning earlier before the break, and
just being an outspoken feminist no matter your age, no
(41:41):
matter your size. She sort of proves that you can
be more than what people expect from you. So we
want to hear from you. Tell us your ideal cartoon character,
presidential cabinet lineup. Tell us what Lisa Simpson meant for you.
Maybe you didn't watch Simpsons and you had a different
you know cartoon feminist icon growing up. We want to
(42:03):
hear it all. You can get up with us on
Instagram at stuff mom Ever Told You, on Twitter at
mom Stuff Podcast, or a good old fashion email at
mom stuff at how stuff works dot com
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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