July 15, 2024 • 21 mins
Recent comments around the weights of two actors in a fictional romance in Bridgerton has kickstarted a lot of conversation. We break some of it down.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is and Samantha and welcome to stuff. I
never told your production. I heart radio. And today we
were talking about a show which I have never seen, Ridgardton.
Have you watched the new season in Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I watched the first half because they split the season annoyingly,
so I had like a month break and then release
the other half. I don't know why, something with the
fact that they changed over the show runner and the
showrunner may have not handled the season very well. That's
what I'm getting from. Like me as like just a
(00:47):
very lightly watching and then moving on because the first
season I really did enjoy, but then I was like, yeah, okay,
kind of how I do with like a lot of
dramas when it gets too like repetitive in my mind
that I'm like, eh, and I'm done because it was
new at first. But like I do love some of
the actors on there, including when I know you're about
to talk about Nicola Coughlan, who is fantastic in every
(01:10):
interview i've seen her do and apparently really great and
Dairy Girls, which I'm very great I.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Have not seen.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I haven't seen it either, but it's on my It
has long been on my watch list, and it's a
show that people tell me. They're always like, you would
love that show, and I believe it. Yeah, I am
in a strange place where I also I never watched Bridgerton,
but I just there's a lot of new content that
I have watched, like the first couple seasons of and
I love. I don't know right now, I'm like, I
(01:40):
need my space. Let me watch my bad horror movie
that I don't really have to invest in. Right That's
just where I am right now. I know I'll watch
it eventually, but like.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
The mood, Yeah, I see you get Get the Moon.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You're like okay, because I, like I said, I did
watch the first half and I was like okay, and
then kind of quote unquote like Cliffhanger and you know
things are going to go awry. A lot of revelations
in this one. But still because the over the top.
Maybe I've just been so inundated with the content, with
people's criticisms and like predictions that I'm like, eh, I'll wait.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, oh gosh, I have so many thoughts about that.
I may or may not have written an essay about
how social media is really impacting our entertainment consumption because
I write essays when I'm stressed.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
All right, I was like, is this being published? Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
This is your collection me trying to work things out.
I have a whole holder filled with essays that no
one will ever read.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is this one of the things I have to delete?
Just think like later down the road.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It might make some people mad, but they'll move on
quickly because some social media. Sorry, that's a different topic.
So I don't know. As someone who's never interacted with
this media, I'm gonna say spoilers just in case, but
(03:02):
I don't know. But if you're really like I do
not want any spoilers and you don't know what happens,
maybe wait on this one. And content warning for fat phobia.
So we are a bit behind the times here. But
as I've mentioned recently, I got to go on a
trip with some friends and they were talking all about
Bridgerton and this came up. I hadn't heard about it,
(03:25):
and I was like, wait what, And so here we are.
So in the newest season of the Netflix show Bridgerton,
Penelope Featherington played by Nikola Cochlan and Colin Bridgerton played
by Luke Newton have sparked some romance. Their ship name
is Paulin. I guess that's how you say that the
(03:48):
and them getting together is something that a lot of
folks have been looking forward to. And throughout this process,
Cocklan has dealt with a lot of fat shaming and
just overall body shaming, especially when compared to Newton. From
the Independent quote. There's been a bizarre affixation on the
latter's body type Cocklan in general, ranging from a Guardian
(04:10):
article calling her a little bit fat and a lot
hot to downright poisonous Spectator article that stated, as if
it were fact, that Cocklan is not hot and that
the idea of a fat girl who wins the Prince
wasn't remotely plausible. I will say others have also said
(04:30):
she doesn't really even qualify as plus size in real life.
I feel like that's kind of another territory. But basically
they're like, she still's not really plus size, and you're
making these comments.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I think more than anything, she's just shorter. She's like
a shorter person in the series. Again, I'm not gonna
vouch for the books because I have never read the books,
and we have I know many people who are die
hard for the books. We've also had criticisms, and I
got criticized for watching that first season and when we
talked about it, because there is that conversation of rape
(05:11):
with the male lead.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So all of.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That is very very legitimate, and I hear, y'all, we
hear you, we know this. But I think in one
of the ways that they did change and flip some
of the narrative, especially for a period piece such as this,
is having Nicola Cocklin being a main character and being
seen as a leading lady, even though people were like,
(05:34):
what is going on and seeing this as revolutionary, which
is again is annoying. And maybe the main fact within
the movies and the show itself, they don't reference her
body at all. That maybe I've missed some parts, maybe
it's spent a long time. I don't remember any real
fat shaming in the conversation. I don't like they were
more shaming her outfits because her mom is over the
(05:56):
top with the colors and everybody would like, oh, look
at them, they're wearing orange to this like everybody else
wearing light green and whites and or like. And the
mother really loved very bright neon colors, which she hates,
like the character of Penelope hates and a part of
the her like new being out trying to find a husband,
(06:18):
is her being able to choose her own colors and
outfits and really standing out like her welcome out. It
was her being in very beautiful Emeralds green dress. So like,
none of the shame factor has been based on her
body in the show as where you know, sometimes there's
a token and that's the center of the conversation and
the jokes and the plot. That's not been a thing.
So from the series in itself, that's not a concern.
(06:41):
It's literally been everybody else. And I know, like in
these conversations about this, she has outright said it kind
of ignored all of that and just being like, I know.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I've got the best breast.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's like absolutely, yes, girl, you do amazing show them off.
But like that that's not in the show, but it's
always like constant conversation for outside of that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yes, yes, And it really blew up recently. That conversation
did soon after the release of the show, when activist
and author Virgie Tovar wrote a piece for Forbes titled Ridgerdton,
Are we still not ready for a mixed weight romance
on screen. Okay, so, as you can imagine, people had
a lot of thoughts, uh.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So, like what the hell like that title as if
implying like that's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, we're gonna bring it down. When somebody did respond
and was like, aren't we all mixed weight couples? Right?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
They're all bolt gonna you were mixed weight, whether it's
one's like over the top like weightlifting, and the other
one it has like perfect slim body, like what.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, And I will say I read the article and
somebody else that wasn't me said, really, what is missing here?
Was for women because it's like not a the article
is not bad and it has a lot of good points,
but the title, and that's what everybody saw and was
(08:15):
like what so I feel like there just could have
been better wording. Wording. So here's a quote from the article.
(08:36):
For some this romance is unsettling because it forces them
to consider that humans are simply not governed by tidy,
predictable rules. This romance upsets you. It says more about
how deeply you've internalized fat phobia than it says about
the bodies of the actors playing Penelopie and Colin, And
I just want to say, also, mixed weight, this is
not the first time that has been used. Really, yeah
(08:59):
around for a minute, and I read an article about why,
like the need for something to describe when you're in
like a pretty a major weight difference in your relationship
and that not existing yet, So I don't want to
negate that conversation. And there's a lot of argument disagreement
(09:20):
about that. Mixed weight was like in one of the
articles I read was like they knew it wasn't that great,
but they wanted something better and they didn't really have it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So that's what I imagine. But why even terment?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, well there's there is a lot of conversation
around it, and yeah, I mean it sounds but at
first you're like, okay, sure, sure, sure, but when you
think about it for like two seconds. Almost every popular
sitcom in recent memory has featured a bigger, usually beer
bellied man and a smaller thanner wife. Just a few
(09:57):
examples off the top of my head. You've got King
of Queens, you got f I'm the Guy, You've got
the Simpsons. Here's a quote from The Independent in the nineties.
It was seen as nothing but totally reasonable that larger
than life John Candy would fall in love with the slender,
ally sheety and only the lonely, while in the naughties,
Will Ferrell regularly bared his furry, untoned dad bod in
(10:19):
comedies that saw him bed some of the world's most
beautiful women Nicole Kidman, Christina Applegate, Eva Mendez, Rachel mcadam's
Need I Go On. Around the same time, a portly
young Jonah Hill wasn't spurned in his insulting and clumsy
advances towards Emma Stone's slim girl next Door character and
super Bad. In fact, it's part of a wider chope
(10:40):
that sees distinctly average looking men paired with Hollywood sirens,
this apparently being realistic while the reverse is implausible. I
think Jason Segall films in which no suspension of disbelief
is required to accept that Mili Cunas, Kristen Bell, Cameron Diaz,
and Catherine Heigel would be his romantic equal. Think Jack
(11:02):
Black Bagging, Shannon Sosimon, and Kate Winslet in The Holiday.
There are entire movies such as She's Out of My
League based around this very premise. Yeah, also others pointing
that we don't use mixed height or mixed hair or
right things like that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's such an odd conversation because again it's the perfectly
paired weighted meaning like they both weigh the same amount.
Like is that what we're saying, So there's like a
fifty pound difference that's mixed weight.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Nuh?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Like if the dude is one hundred and eighty pounds
and the girl is one hundred and twenty pounds, is
that not.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Mixed weight?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Also, if the dude is one's sixty and the woman
is once fifty five, still.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right, Yeah, And I just it plays a difference to.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
This doesn't make sense. But I hear they're trying to
say like something positive been like you need a good
o your fat phobic self. I get that, but that
term is unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I also want to say, I think this is a
salient point from the Independent. It's something we've talked about before.
But also Nicola Cocklan is beautiful, like gorgeous, like because
all of these women are like white and thin, right,
(12:26):
but n cochlan also beautiful. I don't think that's what
they were saying, But I just want to add that
in in case it wasn't clear.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Like the fact that she is a different weight at
standard than everybody else and still not overweight. Let's be honest,
that's enough for people to disqualify her as the lead
of anything and disqualify her of being with a good
looking dude who is also technically yes in this like
in this segment of the series, yes they are the
lead because they highlight typically within they are the lead,
(12:59):
but prea they were not. So even before then were
they not, you know, like how they were Like it
doesn't make sense. Why couldn't they And they have a
built up relationship and then he's like they shame him
for whatever reason, but there's no implication of what reason
other than maybe like the family is being seen as
being silly or without money or had the father had
(13:20):
died gambling and then incurred this huge amount of debt
and they were in trouble, like they were going to
be really poor and cast out of society. Mm hm,
So that was the Whispers more than anything else, and
like it's such an odd of course she is the
main character. She is If you haven't watched the first season,
(13:40):
missus Whistledown, who is the whole reason for all the
plot essentially.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yes, and so again, a lot of people had a
lot of thoughts about this. Here's a quote from CNN
writer and critic Zoe Rose Bryant shared on x I
find it interesting how there are accountless fictional couples in
film and television where the man weighs more than the woman,
but people didn't start writing articles about whatever the mixed
(14:09):
weight romance is until it was the other way around.
The Independent article I quoted earlier said that the article
was Yeah, I like nuance, but the title should have
been are we still not ready for a mixed weight
romance on screen where the woman is fat? Which is
what I was mentioning earlier. Tobar has responded to all
this and said that she thinks this conversation is important
(14:31):
and wants to hear from those that disagree with her. Meanwhile, Yes,
like you said, Cochland has been open about the fact
she was aware of the conversation surrounding her body and
that she pushed for certain lines and scenes based off
of it, including a scene where she is naked. Quote.
It just felt like the biggest cue to all the
(14:52):
conversations surrounding my body it was amazingly empowering. And to
go back to the quote that you mentioned, we should
say it all because it's so great. So I believe
it was a fan somebody basically quoted her saying they
said she was brave for existing essentially, and she responded,
(15:15):
you know, it is hard because I think women with
my body type, women with perfect breast, don't see ourselves
on screen enough. I am very proud as a member
of the perfect breast community. I hope you enjoy seeing
them so.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Good, which is a great clap back.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And you know, I again thinking about this, this conversation
did not start until because she, I said, even though
it didn't always feature her as the leading lady, she's
been the leading lady. She has been whistled down and
that's been the big reveal. She's been like the catalyst
in this whole series. It wasn't until she was paired
(15:51):
up with a dude that she started getting critiques. And
from what I gather, there was a lot that was
cut when it comes to the intimate scenes. And again,
kind of that showrunner who was a new showrunner may
have like fallen prey to the conversations and criticisms to
a lot of people's disappointments.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, because so many people were, like I said, wanted
this couple to be together. We're excited to see it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
They want it in real life, to the detriment of
his girlfriend today, like his real life Luke Newton's.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Real life girlfriends. Apparently they're good friends.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Nicola Coughlin and the girlfriend are really good friends, but
like they kind of harass or being like, but.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You're not Nikola, why are you on his arm?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Like she had to hide I think at one point
for the press, not because of being harassed, but for
the press to see how great Nicola and Luke were together.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I did read about that. I did read and it
was like, right after the press tour was done, she
came out. He was like, I have a girlfriend, right,
and you're supposed.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
To be Is that true? We know you loved Nichol.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So people wanted it. Were you know, always talking about
the need for more representation. People were loving it, and
so I hope that that's not true, but I would
definitely believe that it is. Unfortunately, and also to end
(17:29):
on a bummer, When I was researching this, I a
lot of articles came up about women who were afraid
the men in their life would lead them if they
gained weight or didn't lose weight, and how it caused
tensions in their relationship. Are women feeling like they're being
(17:50):
fat shamed by their partner and finding comfort in the
label mixed weight just to see if others had the
same experience. So, like I was saying, it's like a
term people need. It's just not maybe this one, but
it's true. I mean, like, if you think about all
the talk we have about you know, you're losing the
weight before the wedding, And I've definitely felt this when
(18:12):
I've been in relationships. So this situation with Bridgerton, I
think is really highlighting something that a lot of us
have experienced. And it's terrible because I thought I was
going to go in and be like, yeah, fans can
(18:34):
be terrible or whatever, the media is bad or I
don't know, and then I came out like, oh, damn
you right, my real life, that's true?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Oh yeah, which I knew. It's not like it was
a surprise. I think I was just I wasn't expecting
so many of those articles to come up when I
was researching this specific thing.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, but they did, yeah, and I think again, like
when we talk about women and their bodies, if it's
not used as the punchline, they're uncomfortable like seeing them
in normal, real or like romantic relationships. It makes people
like and I can't stand her as a as an actress,
and I don't like I've definitely had problems with what
(19:21):
she's done and said. But Lena Dunham when she did
her episode with her show The Girls and she was
naked a lot, They're like, why why do they have
to throw it in my face? I don't need to
see it? Like, bro, what that's just a normal boy?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
You say?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You most of the people who are really critical are
usually cis men. Heterosexual assistmen are the ones who are
like wanting to sleep with women, but you don't want
to see a normal woman naked mm hm, and you're
bothered by this, So what you're telling me that hmm,
like that this level of conversation that how being normal
(19:58):
like this was a very romantic sweet and like very
like beautifully laid out romantic scenes from what I imagine
with what Bridgiston usually does, and then like just having
anything normal if it's not the punchline, then why are
people so like, that's that's not that that's a problem.
We need to have that conversation why that's a problem
for you, right.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Are why it's unbelievable to you that it is the norm.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Right when that's the average person you're going to see. Dude,
just calm down.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, And as we've both said, this was very
specific topic wise. Neither of buzz have seen the whole show,
so we don't know. There might be other I'm sure
there are other issues we could discuss, but.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
This was very issues.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
There's many issues, yeah, so if we could discuss about those,
like we could talk about the fact that it had
this been a woman of color that was normal weight,
the level of like hate in the vitriol this would
have gotten would have been ten times worse. Like but
we're not going there because we know. But there's like
(21:06):
it just like.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Headaches and sue, Yes, headaches do and sue. But listeners,
if you have seen it and there's something you think
we should be talking about that we didn't, this was
very specific, but please let us know. You can write
to us as Stefani mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom stuff podcast
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff when Never Told
(21:29):
You or else on YouTube. We have a tea puppet
store and we have a book we can get wherever
you get your books. Thanks as always too, our super
producer Christina, our executive producer Maya and Urchtrictre Joey, thank you,
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You is protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from
my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is and Samantha and welcome to stuff. I
never told your production. I heart radio. And today we
were talking about a show which I have never seen, Ridgardton.
Have you watched the new season in Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I watched the first half because they split the season annoyingly,
so I had like a month break and then release
the other half. I don't know why, something with the
fact that they changed over the show runner and the
showrunner may have not handled the season very well. That's
what I'm getting from. Like me as like just a
(00:47):
very lightly watching and then moving on because the first
season I really did enjoy, but then I was like, yeah, okay,
kind of how I do with like a lot of
dramas when it gets too like repetitive in my mind
that I'm like, eh, and I'm done because it was
new at first. But like I do love some of
the actors on there, including when I know you're about
to talk about Nicola Coughlan, who is fantastic in every
(01:10):
interview i've seen her do and apparently really great and
Dairy Girls, which I'm very great I.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Have not seen.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I haven't seen it either, but it's on my It
has long been on my watch list, and it's a
show that people tell me. They're always like, you would
love that show, and I believe it. Yeah, I am
in a strange place where I also I never watched Bridgerton,
but I just there's a lot of new content that
I have watched, like the first couple seasons of and
I love. I don't know right now, I'm like, I
(01:40):
need my space. Let me watch my bad horror movie
that I don't really have to invest in. Right That's
just where I am right now. I know I'll watch
it eventually, but like.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
The mood, Yeah, I see you get Get the Moon.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You're like okay, because I, like I said, I did
watch the first half and I was like okay, and
then kind of quote unquote like Cliffhanger and you know
things are going to go awry. A lot of revelations
in this one. But still because the over the top.
Maybe I've just been so inundated with the content, with
people's criticisms and like predictions that I'm like, eh, I'll wait.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, oh gosh, I have so many thoughts about that.
I may or may not have written an essay about
how social media is really impacting our entertainment consumption because
I write essays when I'm stressed.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
All right, I was like, is this being published? Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
This is your collection me trying to work things out.
I have a whole holder filled with essays that no
one will ever read.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Is this one of the things I have to delete?
Just think like later down the road.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It might make some people mad, but they'll move on
quickly because some social media. Sorry, that's a different topic.
So I don't know. As someone who's never interacted with
this media, I'm gonna say spoilers just in case, but
(03:02):
I don't know. But if you're really like I do
not want any spoilers and you don't know what happens,
maybe wait on this one. And content warning for fat phobia.
So we are a bit behind the times here. But
as I've mentioned recently, I got to go on a
trip with some friends and they were talking all about
Bridgerton and this came up. I hadn't heard about it,
(03:25):
and I was like, wait what, And so here we are.
So in the newest season of the Netflix show Bridgerton,
Penelope Featherington played by Nikola Cochlan and Colin Bridgerton played
by Luke Newton have sparked some romance. Their ship name
is Paulin. I guess that's how you say that the
(03:48):
and them getting together is something that a lot of
folks have been looking forward to. And throughout this process,
Cocklan has dealt with a lot of fat shaming and
just overall body shaming, especially when compared to Newton. From
the Independent quote. There's been a bizarre affixation on the
latter's body type Cocklan in general, ranging from a Guardian
(04:10):
article calling her a little bit fat and a lot
hot to downright poisonous Spectator article that stated, as if
it were fact, that Cocklan is not hot and that
the idea of a fat girl who wins the Prince
wasn't remotely plausible. I will say others have also said
(04:30):
she doesn't really even qualify as plus size in real life.
I feel like that's kind of another territory. But basically
they're like, she still's not really plus size, and you're
making these comments.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I think more than anything, she's just shorter. She's like
a shorter person in the series. Again, I'm not gonna
vouch for the books because I have never read the books,
and we have I know many people who are die
hard for the books. We've also had criticisms, and I
got criticized for watching that first season and when we
talked about it, because there is that conversation of rape
(05:11):
with the male lead.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So all of.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That is very very legitimate, and I hear, y'all, we
hear you, we know this. But I think in one
of the ways that they did change and flip some
of the narrative, especially for a period piece such as this,
is having Nicola Cocklin being a main character and being
seen as a leading lady, even though people were like,
(05:34):
what is going on and seeing this as revolutionary, which
is again is annoying. And maybe the main fact within
the movies and the show itself, they don't reference her
body at all. That maybe I've missed some parts, maybe
it's spent a long time. I don't remember any real
fat shaming in the conversation. I don't like they were
more shaming her outfits because her mom is over the
(05:56):
top with the colors and everybody would like, oh, look
at them, they're wearing orange to this like everybody else
wearing light green and whites and or like. And the
mother really loved very bright neon colors, which she hates,
like the character of Penelope hates and a part of
the her like new being out trying to find a husband,
(06:18):
is her being able to choose her own colors and
outfits and really standing out like her welcome out. It
was her being in very beautiful Emeralds green dress. So like,
none of the shame factor has been based on her
body in the show as where you know, sometimes there's
a token and that's the center of the conversation and
the jokes and the plot. That's not been a thing.
So from the series in itself, that's not a concern.
(06:41):
It's literally been everybody else. And I know, like in
these conversations about this, she has outright said it kind
of ignored all of that and just being like, I know.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I've got the best breast.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's like absolutely, yes, girl, you do amazing show them off.
But like that that's not in the show, but it's
always like constant conversation for outside of that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yes, yes, And it really blew up recently. That conversation
did soon after the release of the show, when activist
and author Virgie Tovar wrote a piece for Forbes titled Ridgerdton,
Are we still not ready for a mixed weight romance
on screen. Okay, so, as you can imagine, people had
a lot of thoughts, uh.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So, like what the hell like that title as if
implying like that's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, we're gonna bring it down. When somebody did respond
and was like, aren't we all mixed weight couples? Right?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
They're all bolt gonna you were mixed weight, whether it's
one's like over the top like weightlifting, and the other
one it has like perfect slim body, like what.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, And I will say I read the article and
somebody else that wasn't me said, really, what is missing here?
Was for women because it's like not a the article
is not bad and it has a lot of good points,
but the title, and that's what everybody saw and was
(08:15):
like what so I feel like there just could have
been better wording. Wording. So here's a quote from the article.
(08:36):
For some this romance is unsettling because it forces them
to consider that humans are simply not governed by tidy,
predictable rules. This romance upsets you. It says more about
how deeply you've internalized fat phobia than it says about
the bodies of the actors playing Penelopie and Colin, And
I just want to say, also, mixed weight, this is
not the first time that has been used. Really, yeah
(08:59):
around for a minute, and I read an article about why,
like the need for something to describe when you're in
like a pretty a major weight difference in your relationship
and that not existing yet, So I don't want to
negate that conversation. And there's a lot of argument disagreement
(09:20):
about that. Mixed weight was like in one of the
articles I read was like they knew it wasn't that great,
but they wanted something better and they didn't really have it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So that's what I imagine. But why even terment?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, well there's there is a lot of conversation
around it, and yeah, I mean it sounds but at
first you're like, okay, sure, sure, sure, but when you
think about it for like two seconds. Almost every popular
sitcom in recent memory has featured a bigger, usually beer
bellied man and a smaller thanner wife. Just a few
(09:57):
examples off the top of my head. You've got King
of Queens, you got f I'm the Guy, You've got
the Simpsons. Here's a quote from The Independent in the nineties.
It was seen as nothing but totally reasonable that larger
than life John Candy would fall in love with the slender,
ally sheety and only the lonely, while in the naughties,
Will Ferrell regularly bared his furry, untoned dad bod in
(10:19):
comedies that saw him bed some of the world's most
beautiful women Nicole Kidman, Christina Applegate, Eva Mendez, Rachel mcadam's
Need I Go On. Around the same time, a portly
young Jonah Hill wasn't spurned in his insulting and clumsy
advances towards Emma Stone's slim girl next Door character and
super Bad. In fact, it's part of a wider chope
(10:40):
that sees distinctly average looking men paired with Hollywood sirens,
this apparently being realistic while the reverse is implausible. I
think Jason Segall films in which no suspension of disbelief
is required to accept that Mili Cunas, Kristen Bell, Cameron Diaz,
and Catherine Heigel would be his romantic equal. Think Jack
(11:02):
Black Bagging, Shannon Sosimon, and Kate Winslet in The Holiday.
There are entire movies such as She's Out of My
League based around this very premise. Yeah, also others pointing
that we don't use mixed height or mixed hair or
right things like that.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's such an odd conversation because again it's the perfectly
paired weighted meaning like they both weigh the same amount.
Like is that what we're saying, So there's like a
fifty pound difference that's mixed weight.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Nuh?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Like if the dude is one hundred and eighty pounds
and the girl is one hundred and twenty pounds, is
that not.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Mixed weight?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Also, if the dude is one's sixty and the woman
is once fifty five, still.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right, Yeah, And I just it plays a difference to.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
This doesn't make sense. But I hear they're trying to
say like something positive been like you need a good
o your fat phobic self. I get that, but that
term is unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I also want to say, I think this is a
salient point from the Independent. It's something we've talked about before.
But also Nicola Cocklan is beautiful, like gorgeous, like because
all of these women are like white and thin, right,
(12:26):
but n cochlan also beautiful. I don't think that's what
they were saying, But I just want to add that
in in case it wasn't clear.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Like the fact that she is a different weight at
standard than everybody else and still not overweight. Let's be honest,
that's enough for people to disqualify her as the lead
of anything and disqualify her of being with a good
looking dude who is also technically yes in this like
in this segment of the series, yes they are the
lead because they highlight typically within they are the lead,
(12:59):
but prea they were not. So even before then were
they not, you know, like how they were Like it
doesn't make sense. Why couldn't they And they have a
built up relationship and then he's like they shame him
for whatever reason, but there's no implication of what reason
other than maybe like the family is being seen as
being silly or without money or had the father had
(13:20):
died gambling and then incurred this huge amount of debt
and they were in trouble, like they were going to
be really poor and cast out of society. Mm hm,
So that was the Whispers more than anything else, and
like it's such an odd of course she is the
main character. She is If you haven't watched the first season,
(13:40):
missus Whistledown, who is the whole reason for all the
plot essentially.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yes, and so again, a lot of people had a
lot of thoughts about this. Here's a quote from CNN
writer and critic Zoe Rose Bryant shared on x I
find it interesting how there are accountless fictional couples in
film and television where the man weighs more than the woman,
but people didn't start writing articles about whatever the mixed
(14:09):
weight romance is until it was the other way around.
The Independent article I quoted earlier said that the article
was Yeah, I like nuance, but the title should have
been are we still not ready for a mixed weight
romance on screen where the woman is fat? Which is
what I was mentioning earlier. Tobar has responded to all
this and said that she thinks this conversation is important
(14:31):
and wants to hear from those that disagree with her. Meanwhile, Yes,
like you said, Cochland has been open about the fact
she was aware of the conversation surrounding her body and
that she pushed for certain lines and scenes based off
of it, including a scene where she is naked. Quote.
It just felt like the biggest cue to all the
(14:52):
conversations surrounding my body it was amazingly empowering. And to
go back to the quote that you mentioned, we should
say it all because it's so great. So I believe
it was a fan somebody basically quoted her saying they
said she was brave for existing essentially, and she responded,
(15:15):
you know, it is hard because I think women with
my body type, women with perfect breast, don't see ourselves
on screen enough. I am very proud as a member
of the perfect breast community. I hope you enjoy seeing
them so.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Good, which is a great clap back.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And you know, I again thinking about this, this conversation
did not start until because she, I said, even though
it didn't always feature her as the leading lady, she's
been the leading lady. She has been whistled down and
that's been the big reveal. She's been like the catalyst
in this whole series. It wasn't until she was paired
(15:51):
up with a dude that she started getting critiques. And
from what I gather, there was a lot that was
cut when it comes to the intimate scenes. And again,
kind of that showrunner who was a new showrunner may
have like fallen prey to the conversations and criticisms to
a lot of people's disappointments.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, because so many people were, like I said, wanted
this couple to be together. We're excited to see it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
They want it in real life, to the detriment of
his girlfriend today, like his real life Luke Newton's.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Real life girlfriends. Apparently they're good friends.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Nicola Coughlin and the girlfriend are really good friends, but
like they kind of harass or being like, but.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You're not Nikola, why are you on his arm?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Like she had to hide I think at one point
for the press, not because of being harassed, but for
the press to see how great Nicola and Luke were together.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I did read about that. I did read and it
was like, right after the press tour was done, she
came out. He was like, I have a girlfriend, right,
and you're supposed.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
To be Is that true? We know you loved Nichol.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So people wanted it. Were you know, always talking about
the need for more representation. People were loving it, and
so I hope that that's not true, but I would
definitely believe that it is. Unfortunately, and also to end
(17:29):
on a bummer, When I was researching this, I a
lot of articles came up about women who were afraid
the men in their life would lead them if they
gained weight or didn't lose weight, and how it caused
tensions in their relationship. Are women feeling like they're being
(17:50):
fat shamed by their partner and finding comfort in the
label mixed weight just to see if others had the
same experience. So, like I was saying, it's like a
term people need. It's just not maybe this one, but
it's true. I mean, like, if you think about all
the talk we have about you know, you're losing the
weight before the wedding, And I've definitely felt this when
(18:12):
I've been in relationships. So this situation with Bridgerton, I
think is really highlighting something that a lot of us
have experienced. And it's terrible because I thought I was
going to go in and be like, yeah, fans can
(18:34):
be terrible or whatever, the media is bad or I
don't know, and then I came out like, oh, damn
you right, my real life, that's true?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Oh yeah, which I knew. It's not like it was
a surprise. I think I was just I wasn't expecting
so many of those articles to come up when I
was researching this specific thing.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, but they did, yeah, and I think again, like
when we talk about women and their bodies, if it's
not used as the punchline, they're uncomfortable like seeing them
in normal, real or like romantic relationships. It makes people
like and I can't stand her as a as an actress,
and I don't like I've definitely had problems with what
(19:21):
she's done and said. But Lena Dunham when she did
her episode with her show The Girls and she was
naked a lot, They're like, why why do they have
to throw it in my face? I don't need to
see it? Like, bro, what that's just a normal boy?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
You say?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You most of the people who are really critical are
usually cis men. Heterosexual assistmen are the ones who are
like wanting to sleep with women, but you don't want
to see a normal woman naked mm hm, and you're
bothered by this, So what you're telling me that hmm,
like that this level of conversation that how being normal
(19:58):
like this was a very romantic sweet and like very
like beautifully laid out romantic scenes from what I imagine
with what Bridgiston usually does, and then like just having
anything normal if it's not the punchline, then why are
people so like, that's that's not that that's a problem.
We need to have that conversation why that's a problem
for you, right.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Are why it's unbelievable to you that it is the norm.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Right when that's the average person you're going to see. Dude,
just calm down.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, And as we've both said, this was very
specific topic wise. Neither of buzz have seen the whole show,
so we don't know. There might be other I'm sure
there are other issues we could discuss, but.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
This was very issues.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
There's many issues, yeah, so if we could discuss about those,
like we could talk about the fact that it had
this been a woman of color that was normal weight,
the level of like hate in the vitriol this would
have gotten would have been ten times worse. Like but
we're not going there because we know. But there's like
(21:06):
it just like.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Headaches and sue, Yes, headaches do and sue. But listeners,
if you have seen it and there's something you think
we should be talking about that we didn't, this was
very specific, but please let us know. You can write
to us as Stefani mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom stuff podcast
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff when Never Told
(21:29):
You or else on YouTube. We have a tea puppet
store and we have a book we can get wherever
you get your books. Thanks as always too, our super
producer Christina, our executive producer Maya and Urchtrictre Joey, thank you,
and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
You is protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from
my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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