October 5, 2022 • 52 mins
Podcast producer, host extraordinaire and founder of Next Up Anna Hossnieh joins us to share the importance of diverse stories in podcasting, and how the initiative Next Up aligns with that.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone
Never Told You production of iHeart Radio. And today we
have a special guest friend of the show and a
fellow I hearder Enna Yea, thank you for that. Can
(00:29):
you introduce yourself for our listeners or reintroduced? I guess yes, Hi,
I'm anna host n I'm a managing executive producer here
at iHeart Radio and co host of the Ethnically Ambidios
podcast and producer of a bunch of podcasts. I'm sure
you've heard, like Daily's Guys last culture A stays this
is important, you know, the whole I heeart comedy side.
(00:54):
That's me indeed. And yes, you we were talking about
that you were previously on before me, pre pre me
having the best conversation without me. I'm very sad I
wasn't a part of that. I just wanted that to
be known. Yeah, thank you. We can have another conversation conversation.
(01:18):
So yeah, we're fixing this. And yeah, we've been talking
about having you on the show for a while because
you do have this vast amount of experience and titles
under your professional belt, and we know you are someone
who has been in the front of and behind the
scenes of podcasting at all about it and are so
(01:39):
excited to get your perspective on this very fast changing,
a fast paced industry. So thank you for coming on.
Of course, thank you for having me again. I literally
feel like we've podcast together. Like I feel like I've
been on this show with you because we've you know,
(02:00):
actually have podcasted together before in other shows and stuff.
But I guess you weren't there that first time. In
my mind you were. That's what's weird. It's like, okay,
so that's how I like it. Like I've never like
I was always here. That's the way I wanted to
be for all of our listeners as well as guests
that I've always been here even when I wasn't. Samantha
(02:21):
has always been here. Like I'm the ghost. You're kind
of a ghost because you're in like a dark background.
You're just your heads in light. I know, I'm so
close to the camera too. I was like, I can't
adjust my my so I'm right up on the screen.
But yeah, and that's in fact, I was just thinking
about the fact my first experience with like speaking as
(02:41):
a podcaster was with you and Sharene and Annie in
Florida and that was like such a big deal. Yeah,
we were on the whole panel. So this is kind
of how I got to know the podcasting industry. Honestly,
you and many of the folks of the California the
comedy I guess segments are the first people that I
actually met, even before some of my Atlanta people, which
(03:04):
I live in Atlanta, which I still think it's funny.
That's right. We we really took Orlando by storm during
podcast movement there sure dud the Hilton Lazy River, Oh
I can't. I tried to my favorite place. Yeah, I
think you had a good experience as opposed to Adie
(03:24):
and not getting stuck and having like a war story
coming out of it, going like we're never doing that again.
Every laughed at that. River employees laughed in our face. Yeah,
they had to teach us. How did They're like you, okay,
do you need help? Literally as they are trying to
clean up around us, We're like, we're stuck. We're sorry.
That's a whole other show though. Yes, you are one
(03:48):
of the first faces with Annie as well as um
like our own producers of podcasting for me, because it
was such a new thing again. It's been it had
been around, but it really started cut on fire, Like
I was like, whoa, these people have jobs careers out
of this. I say this to any who's been a
part of every ten years, but still in my mind
(04:10):
it's so new. But I was really blown away with
the things that happened within podcasting and what kind of
field it is and how there's so many layers within
podcasting and there it's a big industry, but it seems
so small to me because you often think of the
indie podcasts that have the host that edit themselves and
(04:33):
then tried to publish it on their own, but when
you look at the bigger picture about how much money
is being made, and so I wanted to get into
that with you, kind of like talking about the industry
and what you've seen and how you think it needs
to change or what are the good things in it?
Before we started there, How did you get into podcasting?
I got into podcasting in twent around then, um because
(04:57):
I was working in live comedy producing. I was producing
a lot of live shows for stand up and variety
and improv around Los Angeles, and I met comedian Dave Hauntsberger,
who is the best shout out Dave David you guys
my nome as David Huntsberger. I call him Dave No deal.
(05:23):
But he asked me, He's like, wow, you seem really
interested in like working in comedy, Like are you interested
in podcasting? And I was like yes, I took a
bunch of like audio courses in college, so I'm just
really into like editing and working like with software and
you know, I've done that my whole life. And uh,
he was like, do you want to intern on a
(05:46):
podcast I have at Earwolf called Professor blast Off, which
was hosted by him, Tig Nataro, and Kyle Dunnigan. And
I said yes. So that was like my first foray
into podcast. I started in turning for their show at
ear Wolf, which was a fun experience, really cool. I
got to sit in on recordings with like so many
(06:08):
cool people like Molly ere in Wolf from like sixteen
Candles and like, you know, a bunch of like really
cool people like that, like Diablo Cody. Like I was
like WHOA, Like this is cool. And I also really
liked Professor blast Off because it was just a fun show. Um,
And so that was like my first step into podcasting
kind of like watching how it gets made, uh, kind
(06:29):
of seeing the background of it a little, and then um,
from there, like as I gained more experience, I started
producing other comedians podcasts basically, and then I just like
kind of went from there really took off. Now look
at me, But you started huge with Earwolf because I remember,
(06:49):
like one of the first podcasts I knew of outside
of how Stuff Wars like stuff you should know was
Comedy Bang Bang, which was signed onto ear Wolf at
that point in time. Let's which that's a pretty big
that worked for because it Wolf is kind of like
along the lines of one of the first past networks,
early comedy. I mean that was Comedy Bang Bang was
one of the first podcasts I knew about its way
(07:11):
and I would listen to and then it was like
cool to be in the ear Wolf offices and like
see like Scott Ackerman walk by and be like whoa,
And now my podcast with him, he guests on my shows.
It's been like full circle. It's very surreal times when
we were like, wow, so cool. I'm exhausted. What can
I say, I'm exhausted. I don't like that is fair.
(07:37):
But so you've been you've seen this industry from when
it was kind of like, you know, burgeoning into what
it is now, which is I have a game with
Samantha where I'm like, oh, I love critiquing podcast and
like movies and TV because I still rarely get to
do that, like all my friends get to do that.
But I'm like a podcasting is now like a choke
and TV, I know, and it's hilarious. The ones who
(08:00):
do it well do it real well, you know, And
you're like, yes, we're curious if you want to talk about, um,
(08:22):
how you've seen it change, Like we recently did an
episode on you know, there's still some real issues with
diversity and podcasting and how it's still like a lot
of white men largely doing podcasting. Um, is that something
that you have seen, you have seen change? What are
your thoughts around that? Yeah, you know, I mean I
felt like for me, it was when it like kind
(08:46):
of blew up, and I guess like I felt like
it was a lot of the same stuff that we
were hearing, Like it was a lot of true crime.
I mean, obviously Cereal, Sarah Kanegg's cereal like popped off
the like true crime sort of spree if you will,
pun and kind of of like, you know, like that
(09:10):
sort of genre of podcasting. So I wasn't like everyone's like, oh,
we should be investigating, we should be investigating crimes too.
In my opinion, there's a bit of a I have
a bit of like a sort of ethics issue with that,
of like it's one thing to be like investigating like
eight decades old crime, like what happened with odd Nan Side,
(09:31):
which is now once again relevant in the news because
Oddnan just got out. But I feel like it almost
went too far where always some people were like, this
crime is happening in real time and we're going to
solve it, and you're like, whoa, You're a podcaster, you
know you have to be like, let's just you know,
step on the break. So like that went from like
zero to a hundred. So I have kind of my
own feelings about that. I feel like, you know, there's
(09:52):
there really should be a line when it comes to
a podcasting, and there's a certain network that should tone
it down. But then you know, we saw a lot
of very similar ideas because people would see one idea
and be like that's a hit. Let's all try and
recreate that idea, whether it be like a news podcast
or it be like a politics podcast, or even just
(10:14):
like very sort of like a name things of like
what my daily routine is or something like that. You know,
these sort of like ideas I felt like kept bubbling
up and people were always just trying to do them
better than the last person. And so it became a
lot of podcasts that were basically the same podcast competing
(10:35):
to be number one, right, whether that be in comedy,
you know, news, science, like money, like so many like
investing podcasts came up, and you were right, like a
lot of these were hosted by white people, and for me,
I was kind of like okay, like we get it.
You know, like it's a lot, but we get it.
(10:55):
Which is like why I wanted to start my podcast
ethnically because because I was like, I feel like nobody
really wants to talk about the Middle East, um, which
is sad because it exists, and people always just like
look down on it in a way of like it's
so sad. They just want to kill them kill each
other out there. It's just always war. They're just you know,
(11:16):
like we tried to help them when we invaded Afghanistan.
We tried to help them, but you know what, they
don't even know what's what they need, you know. And
the Middle East has been like strife with like American uh,
you know, diabolical interference, if you will, like for years,
for as far back as we can remember, and we're
watching it happened, like we literally just watched when it
(11:37):
went down in Afghanistan, when we tried to leave and
the Taliban took over, and like people are begging to
be taken out of there, and we're like, oh my god,
that's so tough. Anyway, gotta go. Aren't you happy we're leaving?
And it's like you created this mess, you know. So
we've watched that for years, generations of you know, just
unnecessary interference by the US, and I just felt like
(12:01):
no one really want to talk about it, especially after
nine eleven, because we'd already become the Middle East had
become this demonized figure. So like that's one of the
reasons I want to start my podcast, I think the
biggest with my co host Shrine Units, because I was like,
I don't feel like there's any like Middle easterners taking
the time. I mean, now there is, but like when
we first started our podcast in I didn't feel like
(12:23):
people were really talking about it. I felt like it
was always just like white men reporting the news, and
there was such always like a very clear viewpoint of
like it is what it is over there, and it's
sad and it's tough, and people are dying and welp,
we tried to help them. And that was like a
very clear stance I was constantly hearing and I was like, well,
(12:47):
that's actually not what it is. This has been a
a land that's been strife with literal just nonsense by
every other country around it. No one really cares about
out these people. They just want to like in a way,
uh tame them as truly horrible as that is, you know,
like there was no they just saw us truly like
(13:10):
many other countries that they've colonized, as savages. Like they
were like, they don't know what they need. So I
was like, we just need more perspectives from the people
who are from these places or people who have lived
these lives, have had these experiences, and like you weren't
really seeing that in podcasting because people were like you know,
(13:31):
I mean and as time has gone on and you know,
we've really started to lean into accepting people. And it's
been a process in this country, especially like when people
acknowledging like yes, innocent black men are being killed by
the police. Okay, like one step, Okay, I'm starting to
see it now, which is like, you know, everything in
(13:52):
this country takes years for people to accept. You know,
Americans are so we're so hard on our own way
of like no, America is the land of the free,
nothing would bad would happen here. You come here for opportunity,
And it's like, yeah, you come here for opportunity and
like white supremacy and like racist ideals, you know, like
that's it's not just opportunity. You have to like form
(14:15):
to a type of way of life. You have to
give into white supremacy to gain any sort of like
respect or like you know, to get anywhere in this
country because that's what the norm is. That's the status
quo is like be as white as you can and
people will respect you exactly. So but I digress, you know,
like there's a lot um So like I was always
(14:37):
like we need more, Like it's not just like white
guys talking about money, true crime or science or the news.
This world is so much more than that, and there's
so much more going on that, Like I've always felt
like we just needed more, and as podcasting has grown,
we're finally starting to get there. Yeah, start o broken
(15:00):
isn't number one as much as he got knocked off
a couple of kind is, but like sometimes he gets
knocked out a little. It took royalty to get to that.
But hey, well we'll quote that in quote um, But yeah, no,
that's absolutely that big conversation is when we're looking at
podcasting and what it is and how it's growing bigger
(15:22):
and bigger and bigger and becoming a money maker, and
a huge money maker at that, who actually owns this content,
who actually is profiting off this content? Who actually is
being seen and noticed? Um? And it's typically white men,
white sis men, and this is who has been gaining
the bigger ground. And the conversation beyond that is that
it's very Western centric and that it's just one type
(15:45):
of point of view and it's just spreading into like
this is the norm kind of why we see yes
being white is Bakerrea in China because they have that
really in their mind. This is this is the supremast
ideals we want to be there, so therefore we all
want to be very literally white, because this is that
standard of rich and being on the hierarchy of things,
(16:06):
and then trying to realize that this is like the
Western idea that's been really pushed out there because of colonialization,
all of those conversations that we've had, and yeah, when
it comes to the Middle East, we constantly have talked
about it. It's either in this perspective of yeah, they're
they're war torn and they're just destroying themselves, or we've
got to go rescue them because they are heathens, because
they don't believe what we believe, or some of those things,
(16:27):
when we know actually the underlying reason is because they
will have money there as in like resources that the
U s ontes and have saken faults reasoning to quote
unquote protect the people there. But that's a whole different
conversation in itself, and took me a long time to
go that out for myself growing up in a very
white household, which we all all talked about. But beyond that,
(16:48):
we see that again, this is one of those moments
where we have a moment in this industry. It's fairly
still new so that we can make a big change,
and I say we, as in marginalized people can actually
make a big change and be a part of that
change as well. Recently we did a Monday Many where
statistics came out for those who are actually creators with
the fact that its white creators, only four percent are
(17:12):
African American only are Latin X and only five percent
are Asians, and then six percent we don't know. They
don't say their ethnicity, so that is such a big
difference in numbers. And then we talk about women and
men and those non binaries, any of those uh, those
numbers are all guess what, pretty much baking on the
(17:33):
cis gender ideals and very binary in itself. Why do
we need voices like your podcasts and hopefully more podcasts
where marginalized people are able to tell the stories. Why
do you think that's important? I think just like learning
any perspective that's not yours is huge because like, the
more you understand how other people have to live and
(17:57):
what they go through, it creates more empathy within you.
And I think that's like really what we lack in
America because it's so much of like a get ahead
sort of mentality, like b number one be successful that
we don't care about who we step on or you know,
(18:17):
like push aside to get there. And I think that
really stems from a lack of empathy and this like
obsession with capitalism, like we cannot stop. We feel like, oh,
if you don't work hard, then you're going to be
the person who's starving, and no one stops to be
like okay, but like what about the people who are
(18:37):
actually starving and don't have the opportunities and don't have
the privilege to get further in life, because systematically we've
just held them down, you know. And I think we
have to be listening more to these stories to understand
why we literally it's to tone it down, like we
(18:58):
don't need this. There's enough wealth to go around. That's
like the real the realistically, like you know, and I've
you know, we've heard this argument of like we need
to the billionaires don't need that much money obviously to
be a billionaire, Like you could be a literally you
(19:19):
could have five hundred million dollars and you could still
for the most part, live the same life that you're
living as a billionaire. So literally taking five million of
your own money and distributing it doesn't change your life
that much, but it would change so many more people's,
(19:41):
you know, like just even like conceptually of like just
have even the slightest bit of empathy to understand what
people are going through and make it less about you
as a human being and more about like survival of
the masses, and like so much can change, Like how
do you know how much change five million dollars could
bring to a community of people? Like we need to
(20:03):
hear people's stories, We need to know what's going on,
Like we need to understand who is suffering, and why
take that into consideration and then use our actions Like
actions speak louder than words. I mean, that's such a
cliche saying, but it's very true. Like you can be
like I get it, I see you, and I hear you,
(20:23):
and it's like okay, And then what it's like improv
you know, like you know, yes, and like what are
you gonna do about it? If you hear me and
see me and see what I'm you know, like, okay,
now let's do something about it. Let's put you know,
whether it's put your money where your mouth is or
(20:43):
just take the steps two try and be a part
of the solution, like it doesn't you know, us as
like the regular folks who obviously I'm not a millionaire,
but like if I can donate here or there, I
do because like I understand, like I might not be
giving the most, but I'm giving something, and if we
(21:05):
all just gave something, it does help. It makes a difference.
That's why I think it's important. Well, you know, that's
one of the things, um, that you do for with
the podcast that I think is really great is that
you make sure to give a platform for so many
people who are not able to share their stories or
(21:25):
share is just their life in general. I just literally
shared when I was on the podcast with you about
my experience as being an Asian person in a white
community and growing up in a conservative town and how
I've had to like redefine my identity because I've been sold.
You know, we had that whole big conversation and then
not that's not a story that's not heard on podcasts,
but I know, like beyond that, you do that for
(21:47):
so many other creators and or just people just living
their life and talking about, yeah, this is my experience
as a B and C ethnicity or a B and
C race and this is why it matters for you
to understand who I am as a person and I
think and stuff like that is a bigger conversation, is
that we need to give these open moments to show
representation because it's also that commonality of like their normal people. Yeah,
(22:11):
oh oh, it's not the stereotype that I thought because
my parents taught me that way, which is like a
massive systematic problem of like thinking, because like everyone thinks
a certain way because they've been told to think that
way for so long. It just takes one person to
be like, I don't think that's real. Mean, like in
(22:32):
most families, it rocks the boat if you have one
person being like, I don't know, Dad, I feel like
that's like a very narrow minded way of thinking in
your dad's like how dare you? But that like in
a weird way, Like just saying that, even if it
doesn't turn the person to like understand your viewpoint, just
challenging them a little bit is some interesting thing because
(22:52):
they do for a second half to think about it,
and just cracking that sort of thinking process for even
one second is surprisingly doing something because like now they've
had a moment of like even if they're in deep
denial and don't want to give in. They've had that
moment and you never know it might potentially in the
(23:13):
future change the way they think even slightly, which is
like what we have to do. That's the problems, Like
you have to go like bit by bit by bit,
because we as Americans are very hardheaded and you know,
stuck in our ways, and like that's what we've watched
for years, like one little, bit by bit by bit
that we've kind of broken down the American society. You know,
(23:36):
like we got Bernie a socialist to run as far
as he did, which you know, ten years ago Bernie
would be like a socialist get out of here. Yet
you know, like your communists, Like we didn't even know
what that meant. You know, we were just hoping a
Democrat would win. And now we're out here being like democrats. Okay,
a democrat that you're basically calling, you know, like a
(23:59):
democrat in army is basically Republican. At this point, we're like, okay, nice,
try but like now it's just like step by step
by step, it's the only way because again, as Americans
were a mess. We simply can't figure it out. Indeed,
that's true. Well, speaking of all of this and and
(24:31):
taking actions, doing more than words. One of the reasons
we wanted to talk to you, Anna is that you
founded something called Next Up to kind of address a
lot of what we're talking about, and uh, we would
love if you could explain more about the history of that,
what it is, what's going on with it right now. Yeah. So, actually, um,
I kind of came up with the idea of Next Up,
(24:53):
which obviously wasn't called that at the time. But at
the Orlando podcast movement that we were all at in
the Lazy River, we're all great thinking happens. Um I
really can't stress unless there's so much I love Lazier.
I know you guys had such a terrible experience, and
I had such a great experience in that lazy River.
It was like my dream. I think it says a
(25:15):
lot about our personality. I think our anxiety, maybe some
mental health stuff, overall control issues. It's fine, it's fine.
I simply cannot get enough of a lazy river anyway. So,
while at podcast movement, I ran into a friend, a
thief Nassouli, who's a journalist now works at Spotify. Gimlet
(25:36):
Wall street Journal producing shows, and he was there at
this conference with this sort of Google PRX like diversity program.
And at the time of my friend of Fief lived
in Lebanon, So to me, I was like, whoa, you
(25:57):
live in Lebanon and are in this program him and
are like creating a podcast and like Google, you know
pr X, this program is paying for it. Like that's amazing,
like an incredible I was like, that is the coolest
thing I've ever heard, the fact that they like fly
you out from Lebanon, Like that's incredible. And he was
(26:18):
working on a show called Her Stage in Arabic I
believe it's Mastrahia, which I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong,
but Her Stage is basically a show about like the
sort of fem sort of you know, like l g
B t Q I A revolutions like going on in
(26:40):
levitt On, like kind of the underground scene of what
it is to be a drag queener performer or just
living in like a queer space. And I was like,
that's a really cool podcast, and that's incredible that this
program is paying for you to create that show because
these stories are important, Like I would have never even
(27:02):
known that like that was even a conceptually something that
was happening until he said it to my face and
I was like, okay, well wow, like that's incredible, And
so that kind of got me thinking that and uh,
if you guys don't remember, Spotify is how to sort
of initiative for women to get into podcasting, So that
(27:23):
was kinda had already happened. So that was in the
back of my mind, and then hearing his story kind
of got me thinking. And so at really literally in
my mind, I was thinking, but we're I heeart, why
don't we have something like that, Like we're literally I Heart,
We're like constantly neck and neck with NPR is like
the top podcast network. Surreal that we would not have
(27:48):
something like that. So I cornered our CEO at our
I Heart party at Orlando at the Podcast Movement, and
I told him I pitched him this idea. I was like,
I think it's pretty wild we do not have a
sort of diversity initiative here, Like we are a massive company.
We can afford to give back, you know, And he
(28:10):
was like, yeah, yeah, we couldn't. You know his conn
a way, you know. I was like okay, And so
after that, I was like, brb Connell, we'll talk soon,
you know. I went away for about a few months
and uh started working on like a pitch um. I
(28:31):
interviewed a bunch of people, including my friend of Fief
who had been in these diversity programs. I talked to
a few people from the Spotify program. I talked to
a few people from the PRX, and I was just
like asking people like, what was your experience, what did
you like, what didn't you like? What could have made
it better? You know, like just like getting a feel
(28:54):
of what people liked about these podcast diversity programs, because
I really would had never done anything like this before,
So I was just asking anything that came to mind
to then go away and create a sort of a program.
Like I was just literally being like, okay, so you
(29:15):
liked that they gave you money. You know. Really, I
was such a simple just trying to figure it out
level that I went away and with the help of
Jack O'Brien, my manager on the comedy side, just like
kind of using him as like a sounding board, being
like this is what I'm thinking, uh, and then he
(29:36):
kind of helped me word it in a way that
sounded like professional because I am a real like in
my thinking, I'm a very simple person. I guess that
makes me thinking strange. But like I I like to
keep it to the basics. I don't like to get
too heady and complicated and like deep. I mean not
like deep. I can get deep, but I mean like
(29:57):
I don't like to like use big language to sound smart,
you know, like I always think that's like so condescending
in a way, it's too much. I'm like, just be
real with me, talk clearly. Let's do this so I
don't sit there thinking, like, wait, what's like talking about
very literal give me the basis on exactly. That's how
I've always been. I don't believe in like the sounding
(30:20):
smart to sound smart. Like I'm like, we don't need this.
Climate change is destroying us. We don't have time, you know,
like we gotta get moving to explain to me exactly
what you want, you know, and what you're saying, like
keep it clear. So he kind of helped me, like
make it sound professional, make it sound good. Whatever. And
uh so I took this pitch, and you know, it
(30:41):
took a while because this was the end of sort
of like August. When I pitched it, to Connell, and
then I went away and then came around and I
realized I kind of it wasn't possible to do this
thing where we like flew people out for like six
months and like worked with them. It was all of
a sudden, like, oh, there's a global pandemic, and we
(31:04):
I basically like put it on the back burner and
was like, well, let's get through this first, and then
I'll think about this diversity program because as of now
things are kind of in a bad place in America
or in the world really so. And then you know,
it's an unfortunate thing that George Floyd was murdered, you know,
(31:26):
um and such a really horrible, horrible way. And you know,
this country finally it took a black man again being
murdered but on camera, which is not even the first
time that's happened to have a wrecking thing. I mean, honestly,
(31:48):
it also took like everyone just finally being fed up
in this country's inability to even handle a global pandemic,
as if it's not happened before, to force everyone to
look at themselves and you know what they were putting forth,
And that's what kind of lead to me being able
(32:09):
to pitch next up in a more revised, pandemic friendly way,
which is like zoom, you know, to the company. So
I was like, okay, you know, you guys want to
do something, We'll hear something. Here's something that we can
put forth that will help bring further perspectives into this world.
(32:31):
And this is my heart. So you want to do something,
put your money, worry about this, you know. Like I
was like, let's make it happen. And luckily, you know,
we're run by Connal, who is very forthcoming and very
open and very into it. You know, he's down, and
he was like, let's do it. Go do it. Basically
I got the thumbs up, but like have fun, go
(32:52):
do it and good luck and good night now and
shook him. But you know, he was like, go do it,
and so I did. It's like, okay, you know, obviously
before that, I had created an entire game plan, I
had created a budget, I had created all this stuff
that obviously it wasn't just like go do what. It
was more like, here's everything to present to you, here's
what I would like to do, here's how much money
(33:13):
I need. And then they were like, perfect, let's do it.
So yeah. We the first inaugural class of Next Up
started auguste and we finished the program basically February. We
had eight participants in the program and all eight had
(33:36):
their shows picked up by iHeart UH with the help
of Toyota, who came in and sponsored the entire Next
Up initiative, so we were able to pick up all
their shows and to give an idea. So the initiative
is we bring in. Originally it was supposed to be
only six people, but I just there were certain cuts
(33:59):
I just could not make, Like I honestly, I became
so emotionally involved I couldn't. It was like cutting off
a limb to cut off certain people from this program,
you know. And so end up with eight people in
the program, and we paid for all their equipment, We
paid for all their software, and then they went through
(34:21):
an intensive two week orientation where they basically got like
a crash course in all things podcasting, which thanks to
everyone at my Heart who UH contributed to that, this
is all happened over zoom. After the two weeks, they
basically started working on their podcasts, which it was a
six month program. Um. They also got a stipend for
(34:43):
their time, so they were paid during this program. Um.
And so after six months they had three episodes of
their podcast completed and a one page document or pitch
deck whichever they prefer created. So with the help of
us me Joel Monique, Yes and Yeah, Median and Yeah,
(35:05):
so we helped them put all this together. Uh And
they also had mentors throughout this process, other I Heart employees,
and then they were able to pitch their show to
I Heart, to the development team. Shoutout Bethan uh too
have their shows picked up and thanks to Toyota, all
their shows were picked up and they're now currently I
believe half have dropped and the other half are basically
(35:29):
coming out. So all year they've been the shows have
been dropping, which has been incredible. Like we've had so
many different podcasts come out of it. You know, we
had Hanai Twitchell, who has a show about Native American
language revitalization. We have doctor Uh Jonathan Higgins whose show
is called Black Fat Fem which is all about the
(35:50):
intersection of being a black person with you know, feminine
characteristics and being a fat person in America, which you know,
a lot of people are not interested in these sorts
of stories, but guess what. These people exist and we
need to hear about their experiences. Maria Diaz is putting
out a show be out soon called When You're Invisible,
(36:12):
which is all about the people who work behind the
scenes too, you know, basically the backbones of this country.
And she actually interviewed the people who cleaned up New
York after nine eleven, literally the people who had to
risk their lives literally, like you know, immigrants who went
into the streets and had to clean up the debris
after our country went through such a tragic experience. You know,
(36:34):
it's like it's not us doing it. We pay the
people that we don't pay attention to to do all
the sort of behind the scenes, uh anything. Americans are like, oh,
I don't want to do that, you know, like just
like really horrible. We're like just monsters and we just
pay people to do that. Well, those people, I have
true experiences and they have their own stories to tell.
(36:57):
So you know, Maria went to talk to them, you know,
as she went to talk to the house cleaners, the cooks,
the people who get look down on in our society
even though they are the people that keep us moving
every single day. And so yeah, we had a lot
of great shows like that come out of this program,
and it was like all I could have ever wanted
(37:19):
was such a dream working with all these incredible creators
who just didn't have an opportunity to get their foot
in the door in podcasting, because really podcasting is a
very you know, it might sound easy to get into
your like it's just a mike you talking to it.
It's not. You know, equipment cost money, software cost money,
training cost money. Like we're using stuff like pro tools
(37:40):
and audition to edit. It's not easy to just come
into these programs and figure it out. It takes time,
it takes energy. A lot of people don't have that,
and so they can't tell their stories because it's not
like a very open industry to anyone. So, oh yeah,
(38:01):
that's kind of what next up is. And we're doing
the next round of the program starting in January, and
if you keep your eye out, there is an application
that will be out there which I will give the
link to Annie and Samantha to put in the description.
(38:23):
So so is that all they need to do if
they are interested in being a part of this program
to find that link fill out application. Simple as that
it's and it's also like not a give me a
ten page essay on why you matter. No. I also
one of the big things about this whole process is like,
I'm not going to make this a jump through hoops application.
(38:44):
This application is going to be a simple tell me
about yourself, Like I hate the things that really make
it be like you really have to want this, And
it's like you do have to want it, But I'm
not going to be the person who demands so much
to make you prove to me you're worth my time. No,
this is I don't believe in that kind of stuff.
I believe in a very egalitarian like I don't care
(39:07):
what your background is. I don't care what you've experienced,
Like I don't care if you have a resume, I
don't care if you've ever even looked at an audio
file before. I just want to know that you're passionate
about something and interested in being involved in I don't
need an essay for that. I think a lot of
like again, like the Americans sort of like system is
(39:28):
like fight to the death, and it's like that to
me is uninteresting. When I see an application that's like
thirty pages long, I'm like, Okay, hey, all right, that's
that's a bit much. You don't need that much for
me to know anything about me. Like I can tell
you in a type paragraph my adversity, what I've gone through,
(39:48):
like how I deal with issues, and what I want
to do in my life a solid paragraph, I could
tell you that, And you don't need me to, like,
you know, pontificate on my feelings and everything i've you know,
add a lot, like it's too much. We need to
be able to give people opportunities without making them jump
(40:09):
through a hundred hoops to do so, you know. And
that's how I've always been up in Like I'm not
I've never been interested in like the hoop la. I
just want to I just want to give people opportunities.
That's it. Make it a simple process, because that's what
I think. That's what I do. Only think gets people through.
(40:29):
I think what holds people back, what gate keeps people.
It's like when you're like, m M, you couldn't write
forty pages on yourself, and it's like what the whole
process of college is now where they're like write an
essay and you're like, I, you know, sure, but like
I got into college and I think my essay was like, dude,
(40:49):
being a brown person in those country, we after eleven
and not chill and I got in. It's like it
should be as simple as like, I don't like how
we treat people in this country, right, love that? Yeah. No,
there is this morbid fascination with getting the most tragic
stories as possible that people really want to have and
(41:11):
thrive on other people's tragedy to that level that the
more tragic is the more likely that you're going to
be heard. And it becomes problematic in so many ways
obviously because that's the whole level of white saviorism, Like
all this level of like, uh, feeling like you have
to be at this door to get hurt or seen
or to be dead before you recognize uh anything, or
(41:32):
even talking about the problems that you face. That's part
of that problem. And also feel very seen because when
it comes to writing in or trying to make a point,
I am that bad storyteller that just says the one
line that's important and forgets the detail. But I'm like,
and that's my story, so thank you and for seeing
me in my bad storytelling. Ye, I mean, yeah, there's
(41:56):
like that sort of like I don't need anyone to
be college educated, Like, I just need you to be
passionate about wanting to tell your story, and that's all
I need. It's all need. I kind of think you've
(42:19):
already answered this question, but just to kind of relay,
why do you think initiatives like the one that you've
created with Next Up are so important, especially for our industry,
because I think opportunity for people who are gate kept
is very key. Like to me, I'm like, why are
we making it so hard for people to podcast? Like
(42:45):
I don't think it's necessary. I think it's almost like
embarrassing how self important we've made podcasting, Like it shouldn't
be so hard to tell your story like that. That's
why I think it's important. I don't believe that podcasting
(43:08):
is this grand sort of wow, like what like certain
podcasts that take themselves so seriously and truly believe they're
doing like the Lord's work. I'm like, are you what
is going on here? You're talking into a microphone. Yes,
it's well researched. Anyone can pay for a well researched podcast,
(43:33):
like you just have money. It just relax a little.
I don't know, I just think that's sort of scene
within podcasting is too much. And so that's and of
course that's a personal opinion, and that's just like why
I think we just need more voices, more people. I
don't think there should be any gate keeping whatsoever in podcasting.
(43:56):
And I understand when you use programs like pro Tools,
like it's unfortunate that it's such a tough program to
get into, to break into. And I think I taught
myself a lot of how to use pro tools. I'm
lucky that I had college courses that taught me how
to use audio editing programs. Not a lot of people
(44:19):
get that opportunity. I'm like, very lucky, and that I
got that opportunity that my college even offered those courses.
So then like, why would I not take that opportunity
to then make it easier for other people to get in,
you know, Like I don't. I don't like the idea
of taking my privilege and gate keeping with it. You know.
It's like, no, take your privilege and open a door
(44:41):
for someone else. And again, it's it's me opening a
door for eight people. That's a very small step in
the grand scheme of things, but that's all it takes.
It's like I said earlier, it's just like one small step,
one small hand over something, you know, like I give
one dollar to you, Okay, you know. It's like it's
(45:02):
just you have to do the small things that you
can do in order to move, you know, things very slightly,
which is all we can do because again, like I said,
as Americans, you can't get one big push. Everyone's like
what you know, like we can't even get a woman president,
Like we're still not even there yet, you know. But
(45:25):
does the little things matter? And I think people don't
really understand that. They go, like, but it's too small,
what difference is going to make? But it's like if
everyone does something small, it does make a difference. So
that's how I feel. I love it. Before we wrap up,
do you have any advice you'd like to give to
people who are like starting in podcasts, who have a
(45:48):
podcast and want to do more with it. Yeah, if
you have a podcast, just keep working on. I think
people get very discouraged when their show doesn't pop off.
It's very hard to pop off a show. Um, because
podcasting is such an impacted space. I don't think that
should stop you because like so like I how I
(46:09):
like think about my podcast Ethnically Ambigios. It's not a
huge podcast, but if it's just like one person feels
less alone because of my show, then I feel like
I'm like, Okay, that's enough for me, you know. I
think small steps should be looked at in like a
bigger light, because it's hard in this world to make
(46:31):
something that everyone appreciates. But I think if you make
something you appreciate and you think is good, then I
think you should keep going at it. I also don't
believe podcasting making a great podcast should be as hard
as people try and make it seem. Just if you
are doing something about like a topic, just like read
(46:51):
you know, read about it, do your research and you
can talk honestly. And there's luckily, there are so many
really good cheap USB mics now, Like you can get
a cheap us B mic and record into Garage Band,
which is a program that's already on your computer, or
you can record into Audacity. Like there's like these different
(47:12):
programs that you can get for free that you can
record into. And you can get a cheap USB mic
for like to thirty to forty bucks. It's not gonna
be the best best mike, but it's something to start
with and you can go from there. And you can
also work with different platforms like libs in anchor FM,
(47:33):
Like there's all these like platforms that allow you to
pay by the amount of audio like storage you want
to upload if you will, so it's like you know,
m B too, like whatever, hundred gigs, or you can
pay by a certain plan to host your podcast, and
a lot of these programs you can apply for their
like ad Whiz sort of where they basically help you
(47:56):
sell ads on your show. It's not gonna be a
ton of money, but it's like these little small steps
that will help you grow your show. So there's a
lot of different things you can do as an independent
podcast or to work on your show. And also there's
different ways to promote your show, which is like what
I used to do back in the day. I would
go to like every news like l A Times, whatever,
(48:19):
like all these different sites and just like look at
their editorial boards and see who writes about what you're
talking about on your show, get their email, make a
little like a press release, which is pretty simply literally
google what press releases look like and mimic them and
then send press releases for your show, Like there's these
(48:39):
little steps you can take that like, look, at first,
people are gonna be like what and ignoring your email,
But if you consistently do it every month, someone will
respond like, oh okay. You know, like it's these little
things that you just have to do if you're doing
something independently, that are actually very possible, and people just
like don't tell you how to do it, and I
(48:59):
just had to figure it myself, you know, And I
just would like Google or you know, if there's something
you want to do on like an editing app but
you don't know how dude. YouTube everyone is telling you
how to do everything on YouTube. I how to do
everything on YouTube. If I have to do something on
photoshop and I'm like, wait, what how do I do that?
I just google it, guess what some person has been
(49:20):
like in depth explaining it for years. And that's like
the incredible thing. You can watch anything on YouTube and
learn how to do everything. And yeah, I just you know,
those are my little small tips to success in podcasting.
Excellent tips. I feel like Samantha and I are taking
(49:42):
notes for us well. And I thank you, thank you,
thank you so much for being here. It was a delight. Um.
We would love to have you back again. Can you
tell the good listeners where they can find you? Yes.
You can follow me on Twitter at Anna host n
A A N N A h O S S n
(50:04):
I e H. You could tweet at me if you
have any questions about podcasting. I'll respond if I see
it all respond. As long as you're not being mean
to me, I usually will respond to you. You can
follow me on Instagram at Selling Hosts which is s
E L L I N G H O S S
N I e H. Which again, if you d m me,
I will see it and if you're not being mean
(50:24):
to me almost likely respond to you. If you have
a question or want to talk about something, or if
you're like, how do I get into next up? I'll
tell you I'm very much open to helping people get
into podcasting or you know, anything. As long as you're
not being mean to me. I'm a very sensitive soul,
then I will respond to you. And you can check
out my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous that I host with Shrine
(50:47):
Lani Unez. We're on I Heart Just. You can search
ethnically a Videos podcast and we'll pop up. We're on
all the platforms. Uh and then yeah, I mean if
you follow me on social media, you'll see like all
the other shows I promoted all times, and you'll know
that I work on them. Yes, yes, it's quite quite
a for you. It's very impressive. How you sleeping, but okay,
(51:09):
I'm not you guys are not sleeping. I don't know. Okay, well,
and we will post the link to the next step
initiative for any listeners who are interested. We very much
encourage you to apply. And yeah, it's it's so much
amazing stuff you're doing in so thank you again, Thank you,
(51:30):
Thank you guys. Yes, and if you would like to
contact us listeners, you can or email stuff you Ner
mom Stuff at I hurt meia dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, our Instagram
and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always started
super producer Christina, Thank you Christina, and thanks to you
for listening Stuff in our Told's Protection by Heart Radio.
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone
Never Told You production of iHeart Radio. And today we
have a special guest friend of the show and a
fellow I hearder Enna Yea, thank you for that. Can
(00:29):
you introduce yourself for our listeners or reintroduced? I guess yes, Hi,
I'm anna host n I'm a managing executive producer here
at iHeart Radio and co host of the Ethnically Ambidios
podcast and producer of a bunch of podcasts. I'm sure
you've heard, like Daily's Guys last culture A stays this
is important, you know, the whole I heeart comedy side.
(00:54):
That's me indeed. And yes, you we were talking about
that you were previously on before me, pre pre me
having the best conversation without me. I'm very sad I
wasn't a part of that. I just wanted that to
be known. Yeah, thank you. We can have another conversation conversation.
(01:18):
So yeah, we're fixing this. And yeah, we've been talking
about having you on the show for a while because
you do have this vast amount of experience and titles
under your professional belt, and we know you are someone
who has been in the front of and behind the
scenes of podcasting at all about it and are so
(01:39):
excited to get your perspective on this very fast changing,
a fast paced industry. So thank you for coming on.
Of course, thank you for having me again. I literally
feel like we've podcast together. Like I feel like I've
been on this show with you because we've you know,
(02:00):
actually have podcasted together before in other shows and stuff.
But I guess you weren't there that first time. In
my mind you were. That's what's weird. It's like, okay,
so that's how I like it. Like I've never like
I was always here. That's the way I wanted to
be for all of our listeners as well as guests
that I've always been here even when I wasn't. Samantha
(02:21):
has always been here. Like I'm the ghost. You're kind
of a ghost because you're in like a dark background.
You're just your heads in light. I know, I'm so
close to the camera too. I was like, I can't
adjust my my so I'm right up on the screen.
But yeah, and that's in fact, I was just thinking
about the fact my first experience with like speaking as
(02:41):
a podcaster was with you and Sharene and Annie in
Florida and that was like such a big deal. Yeah,
we were on the whole panel. So this is kind
of how I got to know the podcasting industry. Honestly,
you and many of the folks of the California the
comedy I guess segments are the first people that I
actually met, even before some of my Atlanta people, which
(03:04):
I live in Atlanta, which I still think it's funny.
That's right. We we really took Orlando by storm during
podcast movement there sure dud the Hilton Lazy River, Oh
I can't. I tried to my favorite place. Yeah, I
think you had a good experience as opposed to Adie
(03:24):
and not getting stuck and having like a war story
coming out of it, going like we're never doing that again.
Every laughed at that. River employees laughed in our face. Yeah,
they had to teach us. How did They're like you, okay,
do you need help? Literally as they are trying to
clean up around us, We're like, we're stuck. We're sorry.
That's a whole other show though. Yes, you are one
(03:48):
of the first faces with Annie as well as um
like our own producers of podcasting for me, because it
was such a new thing again. It's been it had
been around, but it really started cut on fire, Like
I was like, whoa, these people have jobs careers out
of this. I say this to any who's been a
part of every ten years, but still in my mind
(04:10):
it's so new. But I was really blown away with
the things that happened within podcasting and what kind of
field it is and how there's so many layers within
podcasting and there it's a big industry, but it seems
so small to me because you often think of the
indie podcasts that have the host that edit themselves and
(04:33):
then tried to publish it on their own, but when
you look at the bigger picture about how much money
is being made, and so I wanted to get into
that with you, kind of like talking about the industry
and what you've seen and how you think it needs
to change or what are the good things in it?
Before we started there, How did you get into podcasting?
I got into podcasting in twent around then, um because
(04:57):
I was working in live comedy producing. I was producing
a lot of live shows for stand up and variety
and improv around Los Angeles, and I met comedian Dave Hauntsberger,
who is the best shout out Dave David you guys
my nome as David Huntsberger. I call him Dave No deal.
(05:23):
But he asked me, He's like, wow, you seem really
interested in like working in comedy, Like are you interested
in podcasting? And I was like yes, I took a
bunch of like audio courses in college, so I'm just
really into like editing and working like with software and
you know, I've done that my whole life. And uh,
he was like, do you want to intern on a
(05:46):
podcast I have at Earwolf called Professor blast Off, which
was hosted by him, Tig Nataro, and Kyle Dunnigan. And
I said yes. So that was like my first foray
into podcast. I started in turning for their show at
ear Wolf, which was a fun experience, really cool. I
got to sit in on recordings with like so many
(06:08):
cool people like Molly ere in Wolf from like sixteen
Candles and like, you know, a bunch of like really
cool people like that, like Diablo Cody. Like I was
like WHOA, Like this is cool. And I also really
liked Professor blast Off because it was just a fun show. Um,
And so that was like my first step into podcasting
kind of like watching how it gets made, uh, kind
(06:29):
of seeing the background of it a little, and then um,
from there, like as I gained more experience, I started
producing other comedians podcasts basically, and then I just like
kind of went from there really took off. Now look
at me, But you started huge with Earwolf because I remember,
(06:49):
like one of the first podcasts I knew of outside
of how Stuff Wars like stuff you should know was
Comedy Bang Bang, which was signed onto ear Wolf at
that point in time. Let's which that's a pretty big
that worked for because it Wolf is kind of like
along the lines of one of the first past networks,
early comedy. I mean that was Comedy Bang Bang was
one of the first podcasts I knew about its way
(07:11):
and I would listen to and then it was like
cool to be in the ear Wolf offices and like
see like Scott Ackerman walk by and be like whoa,
And now my podcast with him, he guests on my shows.
It's been like full circle. It's very surreal times when
we were like, wow, so cool. I'm exhausted. What can
I say, I'm exhausted. I don't like that is fair.
(07:37):
But so you've been you've seen this industry from when
it was kind of like, you know, burgeoning into what
it is now, which is I have a game with
Samantha where I'm like, oh, I love critiquing podcast and
like movies and TV because I still rarely get to
do that, like all my friends get to do that.
But I'm like a podcasting is now like a choke
and TV, I know, and it's hilarious. The ones who
(08:00):
do it well do it real well, you know, And
you're like, yes, we're curious if you want to talk about, um,
(08:22):
how you've seen it change, Like we recently did an
episode on you know, there's still some real issues with
diversity and podcasting and how it's still like a lot
of white men largely doing podcasting. Um, is that something
that you have seen, you have seen change? What are
your thoughts around that? Yeah, you know, I mean I
felt like for me, it was when it like kind
(08:46):
of blew up, and I guess like I felt like
it was a lot of the same stuff that we
were hearing, Like it was a lot of true crime.
I mean, obviously Cereal, Sarah Kanegg's cereal like popped off
the like true crime sort of spree if you will,
pun and kind of of like, you know, like that
(09:10):
sort of genre of podcasting. So I wasn't like everyone's like, oh,
we should be investigating, we should be investigating crimes too.
In my opinion, there's a bit of a I have
a bit of like a sort of ethics issue with that,
of like it's one thing to be like investigating like
eight decades old crime, like what happened with odd Nan Side,
(09:31):
which is now once again relevant in the news because
Oddnan just got out. But I feel like it almost
went too far where always some people were like, this
crime is happening in real time and we're going to
solve it, and you're like, whoa, You're a podcaster, you
know you have to be like, let's just you know,
step on the break. So like that went from like
zero to a hundred. So I have kind of my
own feelings about that. I feel like, you know, there's
(09:52):
there really should be a line when it comes to
a podcasting, and there's a certain network that should tone
it down. But then you know, we saw a lot
of very similar ideas because people would see one idea
and be like that's a hit. Let's all try and
recreate that idea, whether it be like a news podcast
or it be like a politics podcast, or even just
(10:14):
like very sort of like a name things of like
what my daily routine is or something like that. You know,
these sort of like ideas I felt like kept bubbling
up and people were always just trying to do them
better than the last person. And so it became a
lot of podcasts that were basically the same podcast competing
(10:35):
to be number one, right, whether that be in comedy,
you know, news, science, like money, like so many like
investing podcasts came up, and you were right, like a
lot of these were hosted by white people, and for me,
I was kind of like okay, like we get it.
You know, like it's a lot, but we get it.
(10:55):
Which is like why I wanted to start my podcast
ethnically because because I was like, I feel like nobody
really wants to talk about the Middle East, um, which
is sad because it exists, and people always just like
look down on it in a way of like it's
so sad. They just want to kill them kill each
other out there. It's just always war. They're just you know,
(11:16):
like we tried to help them when we invaded Afghanistan.
We tried to help them, but you know what, they
don't even know what's what they need, you know. And
the Middle East has been like strife with like American uh,
you know, diabolical interference, if you will, like for years,
for as far back as we can remember, and we're
watching it happened, like we literally just watched when it
(11:37):
went down in Afghanistan, when we tried to leave and
the Taliban took over, and like people are begging to
be taken out of there, and we're like, oh my god,
that's so tough. Anyway, gotta go. Aren't you happy we're leaving?
And it's like you created this mess, you know. So
we've watched that for years, generations of you know, just
unnecessary interference by the US, and I just felt like
(12:01):
no one really want to talk about it, especially after
nine eleven, because we'd already become the Middle East had
become this demonized figure. So like that's one of the
reasons I want to start my podcast, I think the
biggest with my co host Shrine Units, because I was like,
I don't feel like there's any like Middle easterners taking
the time. I mean, now there is, but like when
we first started our podcast in I didn't feel like
(12:23):
people were really talking about it. I felt like it
was always just like white men reporting the news, and
there was such always like a very clear viewpoint of
like it is what it is over there, and it's
sad and it's tough, and people are dying and welp,
we tried to help them. And that was like a
very clear stance I was constantly hearing and I was like, well,
(12:47):
that's actually not what it is. This has been a
a land that's been strife with literal just nonsense by
every other country around it. No one really cares about
out these people. They just want to like in a way,
uh tame them as truly horrible as that is, you know,
like there was no they just saw us truly like
(13:10):
many other countries that they've colonized, as savages. Like they
were like, they don't know what they need. So I
was like, we just need more perspectives from the people
who are from these places or people who have lived
these lives, have had these experiences, and like you weren't
really seeing that in podcasting because people were like you know,
(13:31):
I mean and as time has gone on and you know,
we've really started to lean into accepting people. And it's
been a process in this country, especially like when people
acknowledging like yes, innocent black men are being killed by
the police. Okay, like one step, Okay, I'm starting to
see it now, which is like, you know, everything in
(13:52):
this country takes years for people to accept. You know,
Americans are so we're so hard on our own way
of like no, America is the land of the free,
nothing would bad would happen here. You come here for opportunity,
And it's like, yeah, you come here for opportunity and
like white supremacy and like racist ideals, you know, like
that's it's not just opportunity. You have to like form
(14:15):
to a type of way of life. You have to
give into white supremacy to gain any sort of like
respect or like you know, to get anywhere in this
country because that's what the norm is. That's the status
quo is like be as white as you can and
people will respect you exactly. So but I digress, you know,
like there's a lot um So like I was always
(14:37):
like we need more, Like it's not just like white
guys talking about money, true crime or science or the news.
This world is so much more than that, and there's
so much more going on that, Like I've always felt
like we just needed more, and as podcasting has grown,
we're finally starting to get there. Yeah, start o broken
(15:00):
isn't number one as much as he got knocked off
a couple of kind is, but like sometimes he gets
knocked out a little. It took royalty to get to that.
But hey, well we'll quote that in quote um, But yeah, no,
that's absolutely that big conversation is when we're looking at
podcasting and what it is and how it's growing bigger
(15:22):
and bigger and bigger and becoming a money maker, and
a huge money maker at that, who actually owns this content,
who actually is profiting off this content? Who actually is
being seen and noticed? Um? And it's typically white men,
white sis men, and this is who has been gaining
the bigger ground. And the conversation beyond that is that
it's very Western centric and that it's just one type
(15:45):
of point of view and it's just spreading into like
this is the norm kind of why we see yes
being white is Bakerrea in China because they have that
really in their mind. This is this is the supremast
ideals we want to be there, so therefore we all
want to be very literally white, because this is that
standard of rich and being on the hierarchy of things,
(16:06):
and then trying to realize that this is like the
Western idea that's been really pushed out there because of colonialization,
all of those conversations that we've had, and yeah, when
it comes to the Middle East, we constantly have talked
about it. It's either in this perspective of yeah, they're
they're war torn and they're just destroying themselves, or we've
got to go rescue them because they are heathens, because
they don't believe what we believe, or some of those things,
(16:27):
when we know actually the underlying reason is because they
will have money there as in like resources that the
U s ontes and have saken faults reasoning to quote
unquote protect the people there. But that's a whole different
conversation in itself, and took me a long time to
go that out for myself growing up in a very
white household, which we all all talked about. But beyond that,
(16:48):
we see that again, this is one of those moments
where we have a moment in this industry. It's fairly
still new so that we can make a big change,
and I say we, as in marginalized people can actually
make a big change and be a part of that
change as well. Recently we did a Monday Many where
statistics came out for those who are actually creators with
the fact that its white creators, only four percent are
(17:12):
African American only are Latin X and only five percent
are Asians, and then six percent we don't know. They
don't say their ethnicity, so that is such a big
difference in numbers. And then we talk about women and
men and those non binaries, any of those uh, those
numbers are all guess what, pretty much baking on the
(17:33):
cis gender ideals and very binary in itself. Why do
we need voices like your podcasts and hopefully more podcasts
where marginalized people are able to tell the stories. Why
do you think that's important? I think just like learning
any perspective that's not yours is huge because like, the
more you understand how other people have to live and
(17:57):
what they go through, it creates more empathy within you.
And I think that's like really what we lack in
America because it's so much of like a get ahead
sort of mentality, like b number one be successful that
we don't care about who we step on or you know,
(18:17):
like push aside to get there. And I think that
really stems from a lack of empathy and this like
obsession with capitalism, like we cannot stop. We feel like, oh,
if you don't work hard, then you're going to be
the person who's starving, and no one stops to be
like okay, but like what about the people who are
(18:37):
actually starving and don't have the opportunities and don't have
the privilege to get further in life, because systematically we've
just held them down, you know. And I think we
have to be listening more to these stories to understand
why we literally it's to tone it down, like we
(18:58):
don't need this. There's enough wealth to go around. That's
like the real the realistically, like you know, and I've
you know, we've heard this argument of like we need
to the billionaires don't need that much money obviously to
be a billionaire, Like you could be a literally you
(19:19):
could have five hundred million dollars and you could still
for the most part, live the same life that you're
living as a billionaire. So literally taking five million of
your own money and distributing it doesn't change your life
that much, but it would change so many more people's,
(19:41):
you know, like just even like conceptually of like just
have even the slightest bit of empathy to understand what
people are going through and make it less about you
as a human being and more about like survival of
the masses, and like so much can change, Like how
do you know how much change five million dollars could
bring to a community of people? Like we need to
(20:03):
hear people's stories, We need to know what's going on,
Like we need to understand who is suffering, and why
take that into consideration and then use our actions Like
actions speak louder than words. I mean, that's such a
cliche saying, but it's very true. Like you can be
like I get it, I see you, and I hear you,
(20:23):
and it's like okay, And then what it's like improv
you know, like you know, yes, and like what are
you gonna do about it? If you hear me and
see me and see what I'm you know, like, okay,
now let's do something about it. Let's put you know,
whether it's put your money where your mouth is or
(20:43):
just take the steps two try and be a part
of the solution, like it doesn't you know, us as
like the regular folks who obviously I'm not a millionaire,
but like if I can donate here or there, I
do because like I understand, like I might not be
giving the most, but I'm giving something, and if we
(21:05):
all just gave something, it does help. It makes a difference.
That's why I think it's important. Well, you know, that's
one of the things, um, that you do for with
the podcast that I think is really great is that
you make sure to give a platform for so many
people who are not able to share their stories or
(21:25):
share is just their life in general. I just literally
shared when I was on the podcast with you about
my experience as being an Asian person in a white
community and growing up in a conservative town and how
I've had to like redefine my identity because I've been sold.
You know, we had that whole big conversation and then
not that's not a story that's not heard on podcasts,
but I know, like beyond that, you do that for
(21:47):
so many other creators and or just people just living
their life and talking about, yeah, this is my experience
as a B and C ethnicity or a B and
C race and this is why it matters for you
to understand who I am as a person and I
think and stuff like that is a bigger conversation, is
that we need to give these open moments to show
representation because it's also that commonality of like their normal people. Yeah,
(22:11):
oh oh, it's not the stereotype that I thought because
my parents taught me that way, which is like a
massive systematic problem of like thinking, because like everyone thinks
a certain way because they've been told to think that
way for so long. It just takes one person to
be like, I don't think that's real. Mean, like in
(22:32):
most families, it rocks the boat if you have one
person being like, I don't know, Dad, I feel like
that's like a very narrow minded way of thinking in
your dad's like how dare you? But that like in
a weird way, Like just saying that, even if it
doesn't turn the person to like understand your viewpoint, just
challenging them a little bit is some interesting thing because
(22:52):
they do for a second half to think about it,
and just cracking that sort of thinking process for even
one second is surprisingly doing something because like now they've
had a moment of like even if they're in deep
denial and don't want to give in. They've had that
moment and you never know it might potentially in the
(23:13):
future change the way they think even slightly, which is
like what we have to do. That's the problems, Like
you have to go like bit by bit by bit,
because we as Americans are very hardheaded and you know,
stuck in our ways, and like that's what we've watched
for years, like one little, bit by bit by bit
that we've kind of broken down the American society. You know,
(23:36):
like we got Bernie a socialist to run as far
as he did, which you know, ten years ago Bernie
would be like a socialist get out of here. Yet
you know, like your communists, Like we didn't even know
what that meant. You know, we were just hoping a
Democrat would win. And now we're out here being like democrats. Okay,
a democrat that you're basically calling, you know, like a
(23:59):
democrat in army is basically Republican. At this point, we're like, okay, nice,
try but like now it's just like step by step
by step, it's the only way because again, as Americans
were a mess. We simply can't figure it out. Indeed,
that's true. Well, speaking of all of this and and
(24:31):
taking actions, doing more than words. One of the reasons
we wanted to talk to you, Anna is that you
founded something called Next Up to kind of address a
lot of what we're talking about, and uh, we would
love if you could explain more about the history of that,
what it is, what's going on with it right now. Yeah. So, actually, um,
I kind of came up with the idea of Next Up,
(24:53):
which obviously wasn't called that at the time. But at
the Orlando podcast movement that we were all at in
the Lazy River, we're all great thinking happens. Um I
really can't stress unless there's so much I love Lazier.
I know you guys had such a terrible experience, and
I had such a great experience in that lazy River.
It was like my dream. I think it says a
(25:15):
lot about our personality. I think our anxiety, maybe some
mental health stuff, overall control issues. It's fine, it's fine.
I simply cannot get enough of a lazy river anyway. So,
while at podcast movement, I ran into a friend, a
thief Nassouli, who's a journalist now works at Spotify. Gimlet
(25:36):
Wall street Journal producing shows, and he was there at
this conference with this sort of Google PRX like diversity program.
And at the time of my friend of Fief lived
in Lebanon, So to me, I was like, whoa, you
(25:57):
live in Lebanon and are in this program him and
are like creating a podcast and like Google, you know
pr X, this program is paying for it. Like that's amazing,
like an incredible I was like, that is the coolest
thing I've ever heard, the fact that they like fly
you out from Lebanon, Like that's incredible. And he was
(26:18):
working on a show called Her Stage in Arabic I
believe it's Mastrahia, which I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong,
but Her Stage is basically a show about like the
sort of fem sort of you know, like l g
B t Q I A revolutions like going on in
(26:40):
levitt On, like kind of the underground scene of what
it is to be a drag queener performer or just
living in like a queer space. And I was like,
that's a really cool podcast, and that's incredible that this
program is paying for you to create that show because
these stories are important, Like I would have never even
(27:02):
known that like that was even a conceptually something that
was happening until he said it to my face and
I was like, okay, well wow, like that's incredible, And
so that kind of got me thinking that and uh,
if you guys don't remember, Spotify is how to sort
of initiative for women to get into podcasting, So that
(27:23):
was kinda had already happened. So that was in the
back of my mind, and then hearing his story kind
of got me thinking. And so at really literally in
my mind, I was thinking, but we're I heeart, why
don't we have something like that, Like we're literally I Heart,
We're like constantly neck and neck with NPR is like
the top podcast network. Surreal that we would not have
(27:48):
something like that. So I cornered our CEO at our
I Heart party at Orlando at the Podcast Movement, and
I told him I pitched him this idea. I was like,
I think it's pretty wild we do not have a
sort of diversity initiative here, Like we are a massive company.
We can afford to give back, you know, And he
(28:10):
was like, yeah, yeah, we couldn't. You know his conn
a way, you know. I was like okay, And so
after that, I was like, brb Connell, we'll talk soon,
you know. I went away for about a few months
and uh started working on like a pitch um. I
(28:31):
interviewed a bunch of people, including my friend of Fief
who had been in these diversity programs. I talked to
a few people from the Spotify program. I talked to
a few people from the PRX, and I was just
like asking people like, what was your experience, what did
you like, what didn't you like? What could have made
it better? You know, like just like getting a feel
(28:54):
of what people liked about these podcast diversity programs, because
I really would had never done anything like this before,
So I was just asking anything that came to mind
to then go away and create a sort of a program.
Like I was just literally being like, okay, so you
(29:15):
liked that they gave you money. You know. Really, I
was such a simple just trying to figure it out
level that I went away and with the help of
Jack O'Brien, my manager on the comedy side, just like
kind of using him as like a sounding board, being
like this is what I'm thinking, uh, and then he
(29:36):
kind of helped me word it in a way that
sounded like professional because I am a real like in
my thinking, I'm a very simple person. I guess that
makes me thinking strange. But like I I like to
keep it to the basics. I don't like to get
too heady and complicated and like deep. I mean not
like deep. I can get deep, but I mean like
(29:57):
I don't like to like use big language to sound smart,
you know, like I always think that's like so condescending
in a way, it's too much. I'm like, just be
real with me, talk clearly. Let's do this so I
don't sit there thinking, like, wait, what's like talking about
very literal give me the basis on exactly. That's how
I've always been. I don't believe in like the sounding
(30:20):
smart to sound smart. Like I'm like, we don't need this.
Climate change is destroying us. We don't have time, you know,
like we gotta get moving to explain to me exactly
what you want, you know, and what you're saying, like
keep it clear. So he kind of helped me, like
make it sound professional, make it sound good. Whatever. And
uh so I took this pitch, and you know, it
(30:41):
took a while because this was the end of sort
of like August. When I pitched it, to Connell, and
then I went away and then came around and I
realized I kind of it wasn't possible to do this
thing where we like flew people out for like six
months and like worked with them. It was all of
a sudden, like, oh, there's a global pandemic, and we
(31:04):
I basically like put it on the back burner and
was like, well, let's get through this first, and then
I'll think about this diversity program because as of now
things are kind of in a bad place in America
or in the world really so. And then you know,
it's an unfortunate thing that George Floyd was murdered, you know,
(31:26):
um and such a really horrible, horrible way. And you know,
this country finally it took a black man again being
murdered but on camera, which is not even the first
time that's happened to have a wrecking thing. I mean, honestly,
(31:48):
it also took like everyone just finally being fed up
in this country's inability to even handle a global pandemic,
as if it's not happened before, to force everyone to
look at themselves and you know what they were putting forth,
And that's what kind of lead to me being able
(32:09):
to pitch next up in a more revised, pandemic friendly way,
which is like zoom, you know, to the company. So
I was like, okay, you know, you guys want to
do something, We'll hear something. Here's something that we can
put forth that will help bring further perspectives into this world.
(32:31):
And this is my heart. So you want to do something,
put your money, worry about this, you know. Like I
was like, let's make it happen. And luckily, you know,
we're run by Connal, who is very forthcoming and very
open and very into it. You know, he's down, and
he was like, let's do it. Go do it. Basically
I got the thumbs up, but like have fun, go
(32:52):
do it and good luck and good night now and
shook him. But you know, he was like, go do it,
and so I did. It's like, okay, you know, obviously
before that, I had created an entire game plan, I
had created a budget, I had created all this stuff
that obviously it wasn't just like go do what. It
was more like, here's everything to present to you, here's
what I would like to do, here's how much money
(33:13):
I need. And then they were like, perfect, let's do it.
So yeah. We the first inaugural class of Next Up
started auguste and we finished the program basically February. We
had eight participants in the program and all eight had
(33:36):
their shows picked up by iHeart UH with the help
of Toyota, who came in and sponsored the entire Next
Up initiative, so we were able to pick up all
their shows and to give an idea. So the initiative
is we bring in. Originally it was supposed to be
only six people, but I just there were certain cuts
(33:59):
I just could not make, Like I honestly, I became
so emotionally involved I couldn't. It was like cutting off
a limb to cut off certain people from this program,
you know. And so end up with eight people in
the program, and we paid for all their equipment, We
paid for all their software, and then they went through
(34:21):
an intensive two week orientation where they basically got like
a crash course in all things podcasting, which thanks to
everyone at my Heart who UH contributed to that, this
is all happened over zoom. After the two weeks, they
basically started working on their podcasts, which it was a
six month program. Um. They also got a stipend for
(34:43):
their time, so they were paid during this program. Um.
And so after six months they had three episodes of
their podcast completed and a one page document or pitch
deck whichever they prefer created. So with the help of
us me Joel Monique, Yes and Yeah, Median and Yeah,
(35:05):
so we helped them put all this together. Uh And
they also had mentors throughout this process, other I Heart employees,
and then they were able to pitch their show to
I Heart, to the development team. Shoutout Bethan uh too
have their shows picked up and thanks to Toyota, all
their shows were picked up and they're now currently I
believe half have dropped and the other half are basically
(35:29):
coming out. So all year they've been the shows have
been dropping, which has been incredible. Like we've had so
many different podcasts come out of it. You know, we
had Hanai Twitchell, who has a show about Native American
language revitalization. We have doctor Uh Jonathan Higgins whose show
is called Black Fat Fem which is all about the
(35:50):
intersection of being a black person with you know, feminine
characteristics and being a fat person in America, which you know,
a lot of people are not interested in these sorts
of stories, but guess what. These people exist and we
need to hear about their experiences. Maria Diaz is putting
out a show be out soon called When You're Invisible,
(36:12):
which is all about the people who work behind the
scenes too, you know, basically the backbones of this country.
And she actually interviewed the people who cleaned up New
York after nine eleven, literally the people who had to
risk their lives literally, like you know, immigrants who went
into the streets and had to clean up the debris
after our country went through such a tragic experience. You know,
(36:34):
it's like it's not us doing it. We pay the
people that we don't pay attention to to do all
the sort of behind the scenes, uh anything. Americans are like, oh,
I don't want to do that, you know, like just
like really horrible. We're like just monsters and we just
pay people to do that. Well, those people, I have
true experiences and they have their own stories to tell.
(36:57):
So you know, Maria went to talk to them, you know,
as she went to talk to the house cleaners, the cooks,
the people who get look down on in our society
even though they are the people that keep us moving
every single day. And so yeah, we had a lot
of great shows like that come out of this program,
and it was like all I could have ever wanted
(37:19):
was such a dream working with all these incredible creators
who just didn't have an opportunity to get their foot
in the door in podcasting, because really podcasting is a
very you know, it might sound easy to get into
your like it's just a mike you talking to it.
It's not. You know, equipment cost money, software cost money,
training cost money. Like we're using stuff like pro tools
(37:40):
and audition to edit. It's not easy to just come
into these programs and figure it out. It takes time,
it takes energy. A lot of people don't have that,
and so they can't tell their stories because it's not
like a very open industry to anyone. So, oh yeah,
(38:01):
that's kind of what next up is. And we're doing
the next round of the program starting in January, and
if you keep your eye out, there is an application
that will be out there which I will give the
link to Annie and Samantha to put in the description.
(38:23):
So so is that all they need to do if
they are interested in being a part of this program
to find that link fill out application. Simple as that
it's and it's also like not a give me a
ten page essay on why you matter. No. I also
one of the big things about this whole process is like,
I'm not going to make this a jump through hoops application.
(38:44):
This application is going to be a simple tell me
about yourself, Like I hate the things that really make
it be like you really have to want this, And
it's like you do have to want it, But I'm
not going to be the person who demands so much
to make you prove to me you're worth my time. No,
this is I don't believe in that kind of stuff.
I believe in a very egalitarian like I don't care
(39:07):
what your background is. I don't care what you've experienced,
Like I don't care if you have a resume, I
don't care if you've ever even looked at an audio
file before. I just want to know that you're passionate
about something and interested in being involved in I don't
need an essay for that. I think a lot of
like again, like the Americans sort of like system is
(39:28):
like fight to the death, and it's like that to
me is uninteresting. When I see an application that's like
thirty pages long, I'm like, Okay, hey, all right, that's
that's a bit much. You don't need that much for
me to know anything about me. Like I can tell
you in a type paragraph my adversity, what I've gone through,
(39:48):
like how I deal with issues, and what I want
to do in my life a solid paragraph, I could
tell you that, And you don't need me to, like,
you know, pontificate on my feelings and everything i've you know,
add a lot, like it's too much. We need to
be able to give people opportunities without making them jump
(40:09):
through a hundred hoops to do so, you know. And
that's how I've always been up in Like I'm not
I've never been interested in like the hoop la. I
just want to I just want to give people opportunities.
That's it. Make it a simple process, because that's what
I think. That's what I do. Only think gets people through.
(40:29):
I think what holds people back, what gate keeps people.
It's like when you're like, m M, you couldn't write
forty pages on yourself, and it's like what the whole
process of college is now where they're like write an
essay and you're like, I, you know, sure, but like
I got into college and I think my essay was like, dude,
(40:49):
being a brown person in those country, we after eleven
and not chill and I got in. It's like it
should be as simple as like, I don't like how
we treat people in this country, right, love that? Yeah. No,
there is this morbid fascination with getting the most tragic
stories as possible that people really want to have and
(41:11):
thrive on other people's tragedy to that level that the
more tragic is the more likely that you're going to
be heard. And it becomes problematic in so many ways
obviously because that's the whole level of white saviorism, Like
all this level of like, uh, feeling like you have
to be at this door to get hurt or seen
or to be dead before you recognize uh anything, or
(41:32):
even talking about the problems that you face. That's part
of that problem. And also feel very seen because when
it comes to writing in or trying to make a point,
I am that bad storyteller that just says the one
line that's important and forgets the detail. But I'm like,
and that's my story, so thank you and for seeing
me in my bad storytelling. Ye, I mean, yeah, there's
(41:56):
like that sort of like I don't need anyone to
be college educated, Like, I just need you to be
passionate about wanting to tell your story, and that's all
I need. It's all need. I kind of think you've
(42:19):
already answered this question, but just to kind of relay,
why do you think initiatives like the one that you've
created with Next Up are so important, especially for our industry,
because I think opportunity for people who are gate kept
is very key. Like to me, I'm like, why are
we making it so hard for people to podcast? Like
(42:45):
I don't think it's necessary. I think it's almost like
embarrassing how self important we've made podcasting, Like it shouldn't
be so hard to tell your story like that. That's
why I think it's important. I don't believe that podcasting
(43:08):
is this grand sort of wow, like what like certain
podcasts that take themselves so seriously and truly believe they're
doing like the Lord's work. I'm like, are you what
is going on here? You're talking into a microphone. Yes,
it's well researched. Anyone can pay for a well researched podcast,
(43:33):
like you just have money. It just relax a little.
I don't know, I just think that's sort of scene
within podcasting is too much. And so that's and of
course that's a personal opinion, and that's just like why
I think we just need more voices, more people. I
don't think there should be any gate keeping whatsoever in podcasting.
(43:56):
And I understand when you use programs like pro Tools,
like it's unfortunate that it's such a tough program to
get into, to break into. And I think I taught
myself a lot of how to use pro tools. I'm
lucky that I had college courses that taught me how
to use audio editing programs. Not a lot of people
(44:19):
get that opportunity. I'm like, very lucky, and that I
got that opportunity that my college even offered those courses.
So then like, why would I not take that opportunity
to then make it easier for other people to get in,
you know, Like I don't. I don't like the idea
of taking my privilege and gate keeping with it. You know.
It's like, no, take your privilege and open a door
(44:41):
for someone else. And again, it's it's me opening a
door for eight people. That's a very small step in
the grand scheme of things, but that's all it takes.
It's like I said earlier, it's just like one small step,
one small hand over something, you know, like I give
one dollar to you, Okay, you know. It's like it's
(45:02):
just you have to do the small things that you
can do in order to move, you know, things very slightly,
which is all we can do because again, like I said,
as Americans, you can't get one big push. Everyone's like
what you know, like we can't even get a woman president,
Like we're still not even there yet, you know. But
(45:25):
does the little things matter? And I think people don't
really understand that. They go, like, but it's too small,
what difference is going to make? But it's like if
everyone does something small, it does make a difference. So
that's how I feel. I love it. Before we wrap up,
do you have any advice you'd like to give to
people who are like starting in podcasts, who have a
(45:48):
podcast and want to do more with it. Yeah, if
you have a podcast, just keep working on. I think
people get very discouraged when their show doesn't pop off.
It's very hard to pop off a show. Um, because
podcasting is such an impacted space. I don't think that
should stop you because like so like I how I
(46:09):
like think about my podcast Ethnically Ambigios. It's not a
huge podcast, but if it's just like one person feels
less alone because of my show, then I feel like
I'm like, Okay, that's enough for me, you know. I
think small steps should be looked at in like a
bigger light, because it's hard in this world to make
(46:31):
something that everyone appreciates. But I think if you make
something you appreciate and you think is good, then I
think you should keep going at it. I also don't
believe podcasting making a great podcast should be as hard
as people try and make it seem. Just if you
are doing something about like a topic, just like read
(46:51):
you know, read about it, do your research and you
can talk honestly. And there's luckily, there are so many
really good cheap USB mics now, Like you can get
a cheap us B mic and record into Garage Band,
which is a program that's already on your computer, or
you can record into Audacity. Like there's like these different
(47:12):
programs that you can get for free that you can
record into. And you can get a cheap USB mic
for like to thirty to forty bucks. It's not gonna
be the best best mike, but it's something to start
with and you can go from there. And you can
also work with different platforms like libs in anchor FM,
(47:33):
Like there's all these like platforms that allow you to
pay by the amount of audio like storage you want
to upload if you will, so it's like you know,
m B too, like whatever, hundred gigs, or you can
pay by a certain plan to host your podcast, and
a lot of these programs you can apply for their
like ad Whiz sort of where they basically help you
(47:56):
sell ads on your show. It's not gonna be a
ton of money, but it's like these little small steps
that will help you grow your show. So there's a
lot of different things you can do as an independent
podcast or to work on your show. And also there's
different ways to promote your show, which is like what
I used to do back in the day. I would
go to like every news like l A Times, whatever,
(48:19):
like all these different sites and just like look at
their editorial boards and see who writes about what you're
talking about on your show, get their email, make a
little like a press release, which is pretty simply literally
google what press releases look like and mimic them and
then send press releases for your show, Like there's these
(48:39):
little steps you can take that like, look, at first,
people are gonna be like what and ignoring your email,
But if you consistently do it every month, someone will
respond like, oh okay. You know, like it's these little
things that you just have to do if you're doing
something independently, that are actually very possible, and people just
like don't tell you how to do it, and I
(48:59):
just had to figure it myself, you know, And I
just would like Google or you know, if there's something
you want to do on like an editing app but
you don't know how dude. YouTube everyone is telling you
how to do everything on YouTube. I how to do
everything on YouTube. If I have to do something on
photoshop and I'm like, wait, what how do I do that?
I just google it, guess what some person has been
(49:20):
like in depth explaining it for years. And that's like
the incredible thing. You can watch anything on YouTube and
learn how to do everything. And yeah, I just you know,
those are my little small tips to success in podcasting.
Excellent tips. I feel like Samantha and I are taking
(49:42):
notes for us well. And I thank you, thank you,
thank you so much for being here. It was a delight. Um.
We would love to have you back again. Can you
tell the good listeners where they can find you? Yes.
You can follow me on Twitter at Anna host n
A A N N A h O S S n
(50:04):
I e H. You could tweet at me if you
have any questions about podcasting. I'll respond if I see
it all respond. As long as you're not being mean
to me, I usually will respond to you. You can
follow me on Instagram at Selling Hosts which is s
E L L I N G H O S S
N I e H. Which again, if you d m me,
I will see it and if you're not being mean
(50:24):
to me almost likely respond to you. If you have
a question or want to talk about something, or if
you're like, how do I get into next up? I'll
tell you I'm very much open to helping people get
into podcasting or you know, anything. As long as you're
not being mean to me. I'm a very sensitive soul,
then I will respond to you. And you can check
out my podcast Ethnically Ambiguous that I host with Shrine
(50:47):
Lani Unez. We're on I Heart Just. You can search
ethnically a Videos podcast and we'll pop up. We're on
all the platforms. Uh and then yeah, I mean if
you follow me on social media, you'll see like all
the other shows I promoted all times, and you'll know
that I work on them. Yes, yes, it's quite quite
a for you. It's very impressive. How you sleeping, but okay,
(51:09):
I'm not you guys are not sleeping. I don't know. Okay, well,
and we will post the link to the next step
initiative for any listeners who are interested. We very much
encourage you to apply. And yeah, it's it's so much
amazing stuff you're doing in so thank you again, Thank you,
(51:30):
Thank you guys. Yes, and if you would like to
contact us listeners, you can or email stuff you Ner
mom Stuff at I hurt meia dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, our Instagram
and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always started
super producer Christina, Thank you Christina, and thanks to you
for listening Stuff in our Told's Protection by Heart Radio.
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app Apple podcast wherever you listen
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Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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