April 4, 2025 • 35 mins
Katie Mitchell's new book Prose to the People celebrates the joy and power of Black bookstores. Katie joins us to talk about the process of writing the book, the importance of Black bookstores, and why it's important to preserve their history.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha a ky stuff. I
never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome back
to the show. Katie Mitchell. It's been a minute, but
we are so glad to have you back. Can you
(00:27):
introduce yourself to our audience please?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, thank you for having me back. I'm Katie Mitchell
and I am the author of Prose to the People,
a celebration of black bookstores.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, and last time you were on here, you were
with our good friend Eves talking about on theme and
the power of black storytelling, and you mentioned that you
were working on this book about black bookstores and we
were like, yes, you muscome back, you complete it, and
(01:00):
here you are, and it's coming out as we record
this very very soon. First of all, congrats, Yes, it
is an amazing book and we'll be talking all about it.
But can you give us the rundown of this book?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, I say, pro To the People is a exploration
of black bookstores across space and time. So I had
the opportunity to travel all around the country talking to
black bookstore owners, but I also included bookstores that no
longer exist. So the book starts in eighteen thirty, which
most people don't realize that we had black bookstores in
(01:40):
eighteen thirty and it goes all the way to present day.
So I hope that people will look at the book
and say, oh, hey, I want to go to this
store when I'm in a particular city. But for the
ones that are closed, I wanted people to be able
to visit them in a way too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, and this is something that's correct me if I'm wrong,
But that was very near and dear to your heart
and kind of your interests in what you do, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, like you said, we were talking about black storytelling
last time I was on and so black bookstores of course,
like Cradle all all of our stories. So I'm really
excited about pros being almost out into the world. And yeah,
I'm a bookseller along with my mom, so I thought
it was a perfect fit to bring this book to
the people.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, and there were definitely some stores that were in
there because we were all in Atlanta, and I was like, yes,
I want to go and check this out. Can you
tell us what made you decide to write this book.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I think it was just like a deep curiosity. I've
seen how transformational black bookstores have been to myself, and
I see them as transformational as say black churches or
black colleges. But I found that they were understudied institutions,
which I found ironic because they cradle all our history
(03:03):
and we haven't told the history of the Black bookstore yet,
And so that led me to want to learn more
and to share it with others.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And it's as you said, it was quite the process.
It sounds like that you spent these two years traveling,
you talked to a wide variety of people. How was
that process for you and what are some of the
places that maybe stand out?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, it was a lot of people, owners, customers, family members,
you know. I had one instance in Atlanta where I
was just talking about the book and I was saying
that this bookstore in Harlem called Liberation Bookstore was in
the book. And she was like, oh, yeah, like that's
my auntie And I was like huh.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And I was telling her how.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Like I couldn't get pictures for that store because pros
is filled with pictures and e Femerara, it's very visual
and designed book. And I was telling her I was
having a hard time finding pictures and she was like,
I have pictures, and I was like, oh, can you
bring them like tomorrow. She's like yeah, and she like
gave me the original pictures. I was like, no, it's okay,
I'll just take a scan of it. She's like, no,
(04:17):
I want you to have it. I want it to
be in the book. And so it was like kind
of those like very like serendipitous encounters that made me
feel like the book was just like supposed to happen,
you know, like meeting people who are just so willing
to help with the book. But yeah, traveling across the
country and talking to people like I met so many
(04:38):
elders who like really told me so much about what
was going on in the sixties and you know, the seventies, eighties, nineties,
and that was really helpful too to get their perspective.
And some of them had even written about black bookstores
from like the eighties and nineties, so that was helpful
to incorporate that in the book and to be able
(04:58):
to share their work in my was really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I mean it was so cool. You went, you
went all over This is amazing. Was there something that
you learned during your travels that really stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
One of the things that I kind of knew about
the bookstore, but it kept coming up in the reporting
was the connection to incarcerated people. And a lot of
the bookstores have a component where they're making sure that
books are getting to our incarcerated siblings. And that goes
(05:34):
back from the sixties or even at the beginning, because
the first black bookstore owner in the United States was abolitionists,
so he was freeing people, like freeing the bodies and
minds at the same time, right, And so I found
that black bookstore owners really tried to take care of
those who are incarcerated and people that the state attempts
(05:57):
to disappear from our communities. So you'll find that at
Radical Hood Library in la which is owned by the
rapper No Name, and even the Black Book Who which
was owned by Paul Coates Twnahasecoats's dad in Baltimore. So
he had a program where he was sending books to
(06:18):
incarcerated black panthers and making sure that they knew what
was going on in the outside. So and that's something
that I found really unique to black bookstores, right, Like
you don't really hear about like grocery stores or even
museums or you know, dentist offices really caring about what's
going on with folks in prison in a in a
collective way. So that was one thing that I learned.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Wow, Like that's an incredible level of history that I
didn't even think on, and that makes so much sense
in just in general, like the tight knit community that
these bookstores have built, Like just the fact that you
in Atlanta are connecting to people in Harlem just in
conversation in a bookstore, which is amazing. And you also
so earlier talked about the fact that it is an institution,
(07:02):
that the black bookstores are an institution in itself. So
can you kind of elaborate and define black bookstores and
can you give us a brief history and the importance
that they have left and continue to do.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, So I define black bookstores in prose to the
people as a bookstore that specializes in black publications. And
I make the distinction between a black bookstore and a
black owned bookstore, which a black owned bookstore could be
just a black person who owns a book store that
carries all types of books that don't specialize in black publications.
(07:35):
And yeah, they started, to the best of our knowledge
with David ruggles in the eighteen thirties and abolitionists who
actually helped free Frederick Douglas. Him and his first wife
were married at his bookstore, little known fact. And I
think that set the tone for black bookstores in the
United States of being sites of liberation. And we see
(07:56):
this throughout history as black bookstores being at the van
guard of social movement, so the abolitionist movement, the civil
rights movement, the Black panther, black power movement, black arts movement,
and now the movement for Black Lives. In Harlem, Malcolm
X had his home bookstore, and like all the pictures
that you see of him out in the street in Harlem,
(08:16):
he's usually in front of that bookstore, you know, gathering
people and trying to you know, get people to change
their minds as he's trying to change society.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, and you you talk a lot about how they
serve as much more than a bookstore, like they offer
these places for social ideas, but also things like yeah,
getting books two incarcerated people and just how that really
sets them apart. And on top of that, you just
(08:47):
you have so many amazing, amazing stories in here with
just this wide range of bookstores, some that specialize and
maybe like cook books or children's literature or a sci
fi book vending machine. How did you choose? How did
(09:08):
you choose these stores?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, that was a doozy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I think when I proposed the book, I was like, yeah,
I don't have like twenty four stores, it'll be cool.
And then of course, once you go down the rabbit
hole of actually doing the research, so many more stores
make it into the book. But I really focused on
that definition of specializing in black publications, and I think
as a journalist a lot of it is access. So
(09:36):
who did I have access to, who was a cooperative source,
who showed up to the interviews, things like that on
a practical level, and then yeah, like trying to make
an even distribution of regions, but then also including, like
you said, those specialty stores to show the different ways
(09:56):
that black booksellers show up and you know, showcase their
interest through their inventory, I thought would be really cool.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
It's so good. And when I'm reading through this, they're like,
you had specialized bookstores and one it says to the
black girls, specifically to the black girls, And it was
such an amazing like ideal, like, yes, this is something
that is set up for a welcome community where a
lot of times they may not feel like they are welcome.
Like we talk about women in stem and all the time,
(10:26):
and like how long it took in general to feel
like they could be a part of that industry or
that community in general. But with all of that, some
of these stories are so great and based around black women.
Can you share one with us or something that listeners
can look forward to? Specifically? I kind of gave you
one away, I know.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, the one you're referencing is called a Done. It's
in Bedstye in New York, and her story is really cool.
I liked it because it was so eclectic. She had
her father's like oh vinyls. I was like, oh, could
I have that? And she's like, girl, no, this day
is like stop planning. But she has like really cool
events there. They do like a lot of like things
(11:08):
with plans and just like very hands on like sewing
things and like crafty things, which I think, like is
really cool because sometimes when you're like in adulthood, you're
like over the club, like let's just hang out at
the bookstore and have a good time and meet friends.
And while I was there, I could see people like
becoming friends, like sharing their birth charts and stuff. I
(11:30):
was like, this is so girly, but I loved it
because it's like that's what, that's who it was meant for,
and I could see it happening in real time. Another
one that I thought was really fun was the sci
fi book vending machine, which is just such a great idea,
especially with like rent being so high and not every
community has a brick and mortar bookstore, but being able
(11:50):
to be able to provide books that are really curated
and thoughtful in a small space I think is really cool,
and like they're into sci fi, it gives a little
of sci fi energy having a book vending machine there too.
So those are two that I think readers will really enjoy.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I thought about Annie in
that moment because I was like, she would love this.
I do the sci fi vending machines coming in using
a machine to get to it. Anyway, I was having
a fun time reading through these. These are such an
amazing inventive like innovative ideas and distributing books because it
needs more and more of these things. And with that, like,
(12:27):
as I'm looking through all of the pictures. First of all,
I'm like, I don't know why. Immediately, the smell of
an old bookstore hit me the minute I opened up
your book, Like look through your book, I was like, wow,
I can smell it. I can fill the arthiness when
you walk into the comforting areas with all the books
surrounding you.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
It's one of my favorite things to do is to
peruse all the titles and just smell the old books.
There's something to it. And with that, I know that's
something that you've been complimented, and like this book has
already been celebrated because of these beautiful images. Can you
talk about all these pictures that you came and then
of course the ending picture like with you with all
the different people that you've met through out your tour
(13:07):
was so cool. But anyway, can you talk about the
images in your book?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I mean when I said out to write Pros,
I wanted it to feel like a bookstore. So that's
a very high compliment you just gave me. But like
when you go into a bookstore, you don't just hear
from one person, you don't just see one thing. So
I wanted to be filled with multiple voices, multiple genres,
and multimedia, because I wanted people to feel like they
were in a black bookstore while reading it and to
(13:33):
understand that comfort. So even in the some of the
bookstores that don't exist, I'm always asking them like, what
did it smell?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like? What were y'all saying? What were y'all talking about?
Was there a fried chicken place there? Did the smell
come in?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I was really trying to capture what it felt to
be in those stores, and that was the goal from
the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able to
go into archives and find old pictures from the stores
that don't exist, or like I said, some people would
just off up their pictures. There's a lot of ephemeris,
so you see like the flyers and the brochures that
people were putting out for their bookstores and different events
(14:07):
that were going on at the time. But yeah, I
wanted it to be very interactive and something that you
can come back to multiple times and find something new
each time.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I will say also, one of the things that really
permeated throughout these pictures is just the joy. There was
so much joy in having people celebrate their own books
and the releases or sitting with people that they love
the picture specifically, I think it's like Rosa Defie, Yes,
and like all the people that came through her path
and like her smile. There was so much joy in
(14:49):
these images, and you did such a fantastic job and
relaying their stories, and I know you had like interviewed
a lot of them. Was that something important that you
wanted to show in showcase?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, I wanted to capture everyone's personality, and I think
oftentimes those black stories sometimes we only get shined when
something's like very terrible is going on. And I was like,
this isn't that, Like this is a celebration, and you know,
being in the community, I understand that, like guess, bad
things do happen, but like we're not always like in turmoil.
(15:21):
We do have joy. We are celebrating, we're with our
friends and family, you know, we're listening to future and
just hanging out sometimes. And that's what I wanted to
capture with those interviews.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well done, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yes, it definitely gives the vibe of I've stepped into
a bookstore, which is really awesome. Because Samantha and I
we like when we travel together, we always go to
bookstores and we go to libraries. It's just we love it.
(15:58):
So this is this is such a great, a great concept,
and it's something Yeah, I think a lot of people
don't know about. One of the things you talk about
in here, and people you interviewed talked about a lot,
is that there's a lot of discussion around knowledge being power,
(16:18):
the power of learning, the power of teaching that knowledge.
Can you expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
In the introduction, which was written by Nikki Giovanni, she says,
pro to the people reminds us that black is beautiful,
but knowledge is power, and that is a quote from
one of the preeminent booksellers, Lewis Michau. And I think
what we're getting at is that black books, but books
(16:50):
in general, are very liberating. And in this country, the
project of black reading, black writing, black publishing, there's always
been tension there. It was illegal for us to read
when we were enslaved here, and now you see book
bands disproportionately affecting black books, and there's something there where
(17:15):
they attack the whole project of black thought. And so
I think, as black people, we know the importance of
books and reading and knowledge and passing that down, and
we understand if we don't keep that tradition going, what
could happen and what those who do not want to
see us flourish would like to happen. And I think
that's a trend or a through line that you see
(17:38):
from the eighteen thirties with David Ruggles as the first
black bookstore owner to current day.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes, well, speaking of current day, this is jumping ahead
a bit in our outline of question, but the book
does have a lot of discussion as well about the
importance of history. And as you said, right now we're
seeing such an active pushback on teaching black history and schools,
(18:12):
we're seeing so many book bands, So can you speak
to that and why it's this preserving of history and
these the black book stores that are doing it is
so vital right now?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think the story of the Black
book Store is unfolding in past and present tense, like
with the book, showing the book stories that no longer
exist in conversation with those that do. It's the same
with our history. And if you don't know what happened
before and what the state or the powers that be
(18:50):
did to try to stop the people that came before us.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You can think like, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Wow, this is so bad, like no one's ever gone
through this, like what are we going to do? But
the less sins are right there, Like book bands aren't new. Really,
they're kind of tame compared to what you know, the
FBI was doing before. There's so many instances of black
bookstores being firebombed and flooded. Black booksellers have been arrested, framed,
(19:18):
and you know there's something too. Knowing that you, as
a black person reading or selling books is so threatening
and you think, what are in these books that they
don't want us to read? And to me makes me
want to read them more. It makes me want to
know more. But yeah, it's been happening and it's still
happening unfortunately, but we are our elders and our ancestors
(19:38):
have shown us what we need to do.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, that's the like good news bad news situation of
like we've seen this before. It's been bad, but we
know we can do this because we have survived this
and we being so many marginalized people, but specifically of
the black community, and it's kind of and I've seen
it in the black community here in Atlanta and where
they're just like, yeah, it's been happening. Where have you been,
(20:02):
Like to the rest of the community and be like,
we've been doing the work. Now you're just noticing it.
And it's a reminder and that both of these things
is why not only do the black community and your
book and so much more that celebrate them pushing back
And it's to that point of understanding that part of
the rebellion is celebrating and making sure that we are
(20:24):
still acknowledging what is happening and how that that you exist,
we as a system exist and will not be tied
down or quiet. And I love that that's what this
book seems to represent. It's such a perfect timing and
bringing this type of joy but understanding and power of learning,
and the fact that you're giving us an amazing list
(20:48):
because I know you talked about so many of them,
but then in the later part of the book you
give even more. You're like, oh, yeah, I only talked
about these things these stores, but there's so much more,
And that's powerful in itself.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I think being able to have a record of
what has been done is really cool. Even some of
the bookstores that I have full profiles of have closed
since my reporting, but it's like, this is a snapshot
of what was going on during this time. This is
what we were thinking, this is what we are doing.
And then having the list in the back I thought
(21:20):
was important to show the ones that are going on now,
like I called it, like more to explore, and then
the ones that have closed, the list of those to
say like we were here, we did this, this was
the project that all of these stores and all these
people were a part of.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And the way the internet is going.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Out, how they're just a racing stuff left and right,
Like we need something printed and tangible so we can
have that.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yes, and this is such a great asset.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, Well I know you've been you've been talking about
this throughout. But why do you think that it is
so important that we do keep this history? Why is
it Why are black bookstores in black libraries so important?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I mean, as I said, they hold our histories and
they deserve for their histories to be told. They've done
so much in each movement in the United States that
have involved black people, and they're still out here doing
a lot, a lot of work. Many of the booksellers
have printing presses where they're putting out information themselves. That
(22:36):
was something that I saw as a trend between like
the sixties and nineties that that was really important to people.
And I think that kind of is what pros is about,
like putting out your own story. I was very lucky
that people trusted me to tell this story, but I
do think it came about because of like who I am.
I'm a black bookseller, and I'm telling the story of
(22:57):
black booksellers. And I think it's important to tell your
own story and tell it as authentic as possible, and
like you said, like capturing the full breath of it,
like not just the pain, but also celebrating that joy
as well. I love that.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And just because we have to ask, I think we
talked about this a little last time. You were on
about the book writing process in general. How was that
for you? I know you weres a different because you
actually were able to be more interactive and traveling, but
that could also be more stressful in trying.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To do that.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I was the writing process for you?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean I have of course not written anything like
this before. It was a lot of research. I think
before my writing had been kind of like more source
person and I tried to keep myself as out of
it as possible. I like peek in a little bit
at some point with booksellers that I got like super
close with, but that was different. And then also I
(23:54):
have contributors who are in the book, who wrote essays
and poems, and so that was a new experience of
being an editor while I'm being a writer too, and
kind of walking them through what I know will be
the end result because there isn't there hasn't been a
book like this before, so telling people like, yeah, I'm
doing anthology on black bookstores, and I kind of have
(24:14):
the vision in my head, but trying to get them
to the point where their piece will fit into that
seamlessly was a different experience. But I think it worked
out so well. I'm so happy with all the contributors.
They're so smart. I have such deep relationships to these bookstores.
We have people who are biographers of certain booksellers, people
(24:35):
who were managers past managers of the bookstores. So they
really have like these deep relationships, and I think it
shines through too.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
No, you did an amazing job incorporating different styles into
one book. Like you're having an interview and you were
having an essay and you were having the poetry. I
was like, wow, and then you're doing the excerpts and
the pictures of like she's just trying to do it
all fitting all that in the one book, and kudos
it looks a I.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Was like, I'm going to be Lauren Hill, do my
do my big one on my first one and be out.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I have a feeling this is not going to be
the only one.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
This is so good. That's that's what some people are saying.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Just just putting it out there. I'm just gonna you know,
that's my prediction, but I'm just gonna well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I also love that so much too, because it does
go back to the you know, making it feel like
you're in a bookstore. Here's all these different types of
writing you can find. Yeah, it was just great because
I was like, oh, yes, I want to go I
maybe want to go read a bunch of books, like check.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Out a bunch of books or something bookstore.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Even some of the contributors like they don't agree with
each other. And I like that too, because you go
into a bookstore, there's going to be a book that
says like this guy is orange, and it's gonna one
there's gonna be one that says the sky is blue,
and you get to read both and decide for yourself
what color is this guy. So there's different different opinions,
a diversity of thought throughout, and I think someone will
(26:08):
find something that really speaks to them throughout the book.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
One of the like Nerdier points I latched onto because yes,
Samantha and I have gone through the book writing process,
is that there was a discussion about kind of the
whole ecosystem of books, about like the publisher, the owner,
the libraries, the authors, and how these all these pieces
(26:44):
work together are don't and how people view how it
should work or how it should look versus how it does.
Do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so a lot of the booksellers, I'd say, in
like the sixties, we're also doing publishing, and then I
think a little bit after that the book signing, kind
of author celebrity of it all came together. So it's
interesting to see the different ways it has evolved. So
I'm talking to a bookseller who had a store in
(27:15):
the sixties. I was like, Oh, what were your author events?
Like it's like author events. We didn't do that type
of stuff. We were selling books and publishing books. And
then I'm talking to someone in the nineties they're like, yeah,
Terry McMillan saved our store, you know, Waiting to Excel.
We sold a million copies of that.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
And so it's like kind of seeing those trends and
kind of seeing things that you might take for granted,
like oh, yeah, of course these bookstores are doing author
events multiple times a week, but like that hasn't always
been the case. Seeing the importance people put on publishing
your own work and like having a press and being
able to say what you want to say and not
having to deal with like the big publishing houses was
(27:52):
something that I saw that people saw to be important.
And now you know, people are like fighting against Amazon,
which hasn't always been the case in the bookselling world.
And like now there's bookshop that's trying to you know,
help out with the indie booksellers and go.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Against Amazon too.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
So it's a lot of moving parts and they're all
working together or against each other. But yeah, we touch
on all of that in pros. But yeah, it's like
a little like insider thing if you've been in the
book industry, You're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I love that You're gonna get the book world that
you never knew what existed exactly, the little beef that's
happening behind the scenes. You're like, well, I didn't think
about that. You forget about the fact that there was
like whole press like they were releasing their own books,
and like the level of independent authors who will trying
to just get their pamphlet out there or like the
novella's out there to make a point. So it's really
(28:49):
interesting to think on that, especially when you go through
the historical context of bookstores and publishing books and then
like fighting in civil rights eras and what that looks like,
and then what that looks like for today in the
midst of like literal attack on the black community, like
saying that black history should not exist because it makes
us sad. Like that's a whole different conversation. But the
(29:13):
importance of trying to support those businesses, And I know
this seems like an obvious question, but with everything outside
of just buying from these independent bookstores and supporting these bookstores,
what can we as those that would like to be
seen as allies, what can we do to make sure
that we are supporting these businesses if it's not just
(29:35):
by visiting them.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, I think one way that I say it would
be like the most sustainable is to make them a
part of your normal life. Like not just like, oh,
like this really popular books coming out out, buy it
from a black bookstore, which is great, But like I said,
they're doing these events every week. They have reading circles,
you know, they're bringing in authors, they're having writing salons.
(29:58):
So kind of making it a part of your life
in a way that fits naturally, so you don't feel like, oh,
I'm doing like this charitable thing, Like no, I'm getting
something out of it, the bookstores getting something out of it.
I'm really embedding into my community. I think is the
best way to do it. And even like going back
to like the book ecosystem. One thing that I thought
(30:19):
was interesting was even in the sixties, the big box
stores were stealing from the black bookstores. They would like
go in, write down what they had, and then there'd
be a display of flip black books there. So kind
of being cognizant of what these big box stores and
Amazon are doing because you kind of might think like, oh,
the big guys aren't even paying attention to the little guys.
(30:40):
But the little guys are you know, on the ground,
they know the community and can really curate. And then
you know, the big bohemos can just like take, take,
take and scale it to a way that makes it
so that the indis can't compete.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So, being like a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Aware of how you're supporting people and their business practices.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, on top of that, is there something that as
you know you're closing this chapter of this book is
coming out, is there something that you're really hopeful for
in terms of black bookstores and or trends that you're
(31:21):
hoping will come about.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, I mean, I hope black bookstores. I would like
to see them on every corner. They're a lot in
the book, but when you like travel around, you know,
they're kind of few and far between, and I think
they should be there, should be more, They should be supported.
And I would love to see someone you know, write
(31:45):
another book about black bookstores and include the onest weren't included,
and like continue this work of celebrating the black bookstore
as an institution and you know, highlighting what we've done
in the community.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That would be something that I think is really nice.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yes, absolutely. And for you yourself, do you have any
projects on the horizon that you're excited about.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Well, I am about to go on tour, so that
is my next project.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Kicking it off.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
In Atlanta at the Georgia Center for the Book on
the eighth, So maybe i'll see you all there.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
All right, I'm rinning it down the eighth of April.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Eighth of April, Georgia Center for the Book, seven pm. Yeah,
and I'll be in around the city. I'll be in Washington,
d C. Philadelphia, and New York, so focusing on that
and then we'll see what happens from there.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yes, so well you might want to take a break
after that, but that sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I see a break in my future. Yes, with you.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Being Yeah, you and your mom working like booksellers yourself.
What did your mom say about this book? I need
to know as she read it.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, she's read it. She got to see it early.
And because like when I was writing it, I would
just like go to the library, I would like write
it longhand and like a notebook and people are just
like what are you doing? Like You're always not like, yeah,
doing something like super secret, and then she saw it.
She's like, oh, this is what you've been doing. Like
(33:20):
this is so nice. And I don't know if y'all notice,
but like in some parts of the book you'll see
like handwriting that's actually my mom's handwriting. So yeah, I
love her handwriting. So I was like, let me get
you to write these pull quotes and the dedication. So
having a little piece of her in there too, it
has been fun. But yeah, she loves it. She's so excited.
(33:44):
She was like, you did it. I'm so proud of you,
Like this is big. It's big, Katie.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Oh my god, I'm not gonna lie. Having her being
a part of that book, it just makes me so
emotional for you. That's amazing. And I love that, like
the bond between you and that you have that in
your first book as like a memento for both of you.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yes, thank you, well, Thank you so much Katie for
joining us today, for coming back on. We would love
to have you anytime. Congrats again about the book. Where
can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
They can find you on Instagram. I'm at good books
ATL on Instagram, and if you want to keep up
with the book. It's prostothpeople dot com.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yes, and it comes out April eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
April eighth. There is a pre order incentive and you
get a cute little lapel pin that mimics the book,
but you got to get it in before April eighth.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, I love, I love a good incentive. Well, thank you,
thank you, thank you so much, Katie and listeners go
check out the book.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It is amazing. Thank you, And if you would like
to contact us, you can.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You can email us at Hello at stuffwenevertold you dot com.
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff
podcast or Instagram and TikTok and stuff we Never told you.
We're also on YouTube. We have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina
and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey. Thank you,
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told you
the production my Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app
(35:23):
Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite ship
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha a ky stuff. I
never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome back
to the show. Katie Mitchell. It's been a minute, but
we are so glad to have you back. Can you
(00:27):
introduce yourself to our audience please?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, thank you for having me back. I'm Katie Mitchell
and I am the author of Prose to the People,
a celebration of black bookstores.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, and last time you were on here, you were
with our good friend Eves talking about on theme and
the power of black storytelling, and you mentioned that you
were working on this book about black bookstores and we
were like, yes, you muscome back, you complete it, and
(01:00):
here you are, and it's coming out as we record
this very very soon. First of all, congrats, Yes, it
is an amazing book and we'll be talking all about it.
But can you give us the rundown of this book?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, I say, pro To the People is a exploration
of black bookstores across space and time. So I had
the opportunity to travel all around the country talking to
black bookstore owners, but I also included bookstores that no
longer exist. So the book starts in eighteen thirty, which
most people don't realize that we had black bookstores in
(01:40):
eighteen thirty and it goes all the way to present day.
So I hope that people will look at the book
and say, oh, hey, I want to go to this
store when I'm in a particular city. But for the
ones that are closed, I wanted people to be able
to visit them in a way too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, and this is something that's correct me if I'm wrong,
But that was very near and dear to your heart
and kind of your interests in what you do, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, like you said, we were talking about black storytelling
last time I was on and so black bookstores of course,
like Cradle all all of our stories. So I'm really
excited about pros being almost out into the world. And yeah,
I'm a bookseller along with my mom, so I thought
it was a perfect fit to bring this book to
the people.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, and there were definitely some stores that were in
there because we were all in Atlanta, and I was like, yes,
I want to go and check this out. Can you
tell us what made you decide to write this book.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I think it was just like a deep curiosity. I've
seen how transformational black bookstores have been to myself, and
I see them as transformational as say black churches or
black colleges. But I found that they were understudied institutions,
which I found ironic because they cradle all our history
(03:03):
and we haven't told the history of the Black bookstore yet,
And so that led me to want to learn more
and to share it with others.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And it's as you said, it was quite the process.
It sounds like that you spent these two years traveling,
you talked to a wide variety of people. How was
that process for you and what are some of the
places that maybe stand out?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, it was a lot of people, owners, customers, family members,
you know. I had one instance in Atlanta where I
was just talking about the book and I was saying
that this bookstore in Harlem called Liberation Bookstore was in
the book. And she was like, oh, yeah, like that's
my auntie And I was like huh.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And I was telling her how.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Like I couldn't get pictures for that store because pros
is filled with pictures and e Femerara, it's very visual
and designed book. And I was telling her I was
having a hard time finding pictures and she was like,
I have pictures, and I was like, oh, can you
bring them like tomorrow. She's like yeah, and she like
gave me the original pictures. I was like, no, it's okay,
I'll just take a scan of it. She's like, no,
(04:17):
I want you to have it. I want it to
be in the book. And so it was like kind
of those like very like serendipitous encounters that made me
feel like the book was just like supposed to happen,
you know, like meeting people who are just so willing
to help with the book. But yeah, traveling across the
country and talking to people like I met so many
(04:38):
elders who like really told me so much about what
was going on in the sixties and you know, the seventies, eighties, nineties,
and that was really helpful too to get their perspective.
And some of them had even written about black bookstores
from like the eighties and nineties, so that was helpful
to incorporate that in the book and to be able
(04:58):
to share their work in my was really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I mean it was so cool. You went, you
went all over This is amazing. Was there something that
you learned during your travels that really stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
One of the things that I kind of knew about
the bookstore, but it kept coming up in the reporting
was the connection to incarcerated people. And a lot of
the bookstores have a component where they're making sure that
books are getting to our incarcerated siblings. And that goes
(05:34):
back from the sixties or even at the beginning, because
the first black bookstore owner in the United States was abolitionists,
so he was freeing people, like freeing the bodies and
minds at the same time, right, And so I found
that black bookstore owners really tried to take care of
those who are incarcerated and people that the state attempts
(05:57):
to disappear from our communities. So you'll find that at
Radical Hood Library in la which is owned by the
rapper No Name, and even the Black Book Who which
was owned by Paul Coates Twnahasecoats's dad in Baltimore. So
he had a program where he was sending books to
(06:18):
incarcerated black panthers and making sure that they knew what
was going on in the outside. So and that's something
that I found really unique to black bookstores, right, Like
you don't really hear about like grocery stores or even
museums or you know, dentist offices really caring about what's
going on with folks in prison in a in a
collective way. So that was one thing that I learned.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Wow, Like that's an incredible level of history that I
didn't even think on, and that makes so much sense
in just in general, like the tight knit community that
these bookstores have built, Like just the fact that you
in Atlanta are connecting to people in Harlem just in
conversation in a bookstore, which is amazing. And you also
so earlier talked about the fact that it is an institution,
(07:02):
that the black bookstores are an institution in itself. So
can you kind of elaborate and define black bookstores and
can you give us a brief history and the importance
that they have left and continue to do.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, So I define black bookstores in prose to the
people as a bookstore that specializes in black publications. And
I make the distinction between a black bookstore and a
black owned bookstore, which a black owned bookstore could be
just a black person who owns a book store that
carries all types of books that don't specialize in black publications.
(07:35):
And yeah, they started, to the best of our knowledge
with David ruggles in the eighteen thirties and abolitionists who
actually helped free Frederick Douglas. Him and his first wife
were married at his bookstore, little known fact. And I
think that set the tone for black bookstores in the
United States of being sites of liberation. And we see
(07:56):
this throughout history as black bookstores being at the van
guard of social movement, so the abolitionist movement, the civil
rights movement, the Black panther, black power movement, black arts movement,
and now the movement for Black Lives. In Harlem, Malcolm
X had his home bookstore, and like all the pictures
that you see of him out in the street in Harlem,
(08:16):
he's usually in front of that bookstore, you know, gathering
people and trying to you know, get people to change
their minds as he's trying to change society.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, and you you talk a lot about how they
serve as much more than a bookstore, like they offer
these places for social ideas, but also things like yeah,
getting books two incarcerated people and just how that really
sets them apart. And on top of that, you just
(08:47):
you have so many amazing, amazing stories in here with
just this wide range of bookstores, some that specialize and
maybe like cook books or children's literature or a sci
fi book vending machine. How did you choose? How did
(09:08):
you choose these stores?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, that was a doozy.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I think when I proposed the book, I was like, yeah,
I don't have like twenty four stores, it'll be cool.
And then of course, once you go down the rabbit
hole of actually doing the research, so many more stores
make it into the book. But I really focused on
that definition of specializing in black publications, and I think
as a journalist a lot of it is access. So
(09:36):
who did I have access to, who was a cooperative source,
who showed up to the interviews, things like that on
a practical level, and then yeah, like trying to make
an even distribution of regions, but then also including, like
you said, those specialty stores to show the different ways
(09:56):
that black booksellers show up and you know, showcase their
interest through their inventory, I thought would be really cool.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
It's so good. And when I'm reading through this, they're like,
you had specialized bookstores and one it says to the
black girls, specifically to the black girls, And it was
such an amazing like ideal, like, yes, this is something
that is set up for a welcome community where a
lot of times they may not feel like they are welcome.
Like we talk about women in stem and all the time,
(10:26):
and like how long it took in general to feel
like they could be a part of that industry or
that community in general. But with all of that, some
of these stories are so great and based around black women.
Can you share one with us or something that listeners
can look forward to? Specifically? I kind of gave you
one away, I know.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, the one you're referencing is called a Done. It's
in Bedstye in New York, and her story is really cool.
I liked it because it was so eclectic. She had
her father's like oh vinyls. I was like, oh, could
I have that? And she's like, girl, no, this day
is like stop planning. But she has like really cool
events there. They do like a lot of like things
(11:08):
with plans and just like very hands on like sewing
things and like crafty things, which I think, like is
really cool because sometimes when you're like in adulthood, you're
like over the club, like let's just hang out at
the bookstore and have a good time and meet friends.
And while I was there, I could see people like
becoming friends, like sharing their birth charts and stuff. I
(11:30):
was like, this is so girly, but I loved it
because it's like that's what, that's who it was meant for,
and I could see it happening in real time. Another
one that I thought was really fun was the sci
fi book vending machine, which is just such a great idea,
especially with like rent being so high and not every
community has a brick and mortar bookstore, but being able
(11:50):
to be able to provide books that are really curated
and thoughtful in a small space I think is really cool,
and like they're into sci fi, it gives a little
of sci fi energy having a book vending machine there too.
So those are two that I think readers will really enjoy.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I thought about Annie in
that moment because I was like, she would love this.
I do the sci fi vending machines coming in using
a machine to get to it. Anyway, I was having
a fun time reading through these. These are such an
amazing inventive like innovative ideas and distributing books because it
needs more and more of these things. And with that, like,
(12:27):
as I'm looking through all of the pictures. First of all,
I'm like, I don't know why. Immediately, the smell of
an old bookstore hit me the minute I opened up
your book, Like look through your book, I was like, wow,
I can smell it. I can fill the arthiness when
you walk into the comforting areas with all the books
surrounding you.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
It's one of my favorite things to do is to
peruse all the titles and just smell the old books.
There's something to it. And with that, I know that's
something that you've been complimented, and like this book has
already been celebrated because of these beautiful images. Can you
talk about all these pictures that you came and then
of course the ending picture like with you with all
the different people that you've met through out your tour
(13:07):
was so cool. But anyway, can you talk about the
images in your book?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I mean when I said out to write Pros,
I wanted it to feel like a bookstore. So that's
a very high compliment you just gave me. But like
when you go into a bookstore, you don't just hear
from one person, you don't just see one thing. So
I wanted to be filled with multiple voices, multiple genres,
and multimedia, because I wanted people to feel like they
were in a black bookstore while reading it and to
(13:33):
understand that comfort. So even in the some of the
bookstores that don't exist, I'm always asking them like, what
did it smell?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like? What were y'all saying? What were y'all talking about?
Was there a fried chicken place there? Did the smell
come in?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Like?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I was really trying to capture what it felt to
be in those stores, and that was the goal from
the beginning. I was lucky enough to be able to
go into archives and find old pictures from the stores
that don't exist, or like I said, some people would
just off up their pictures. There's a lot of ephemeris,
so you see like the flyers and the brochures that
people were putting out for their bookstores and different events
(14:07):
that were going on at the time. But yeah, I
wanted it to be very interactive and something that you
can come back to multiple times and find something new
each time.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
I will say also, one of the things that really
permeated throughout these pictures is just the joy. There was
so much joy in having people celebrate their own books
and the releases or sitting with people that they love
the picture specifically, I think it's like Rosa Defie, Yes,
and like all the people that came through her path
and like her smile. There was so much joy in
(14:49):
these images, and you did such a fantastic job and
relaying their stories, and I know you had like interviewed
a lot of them. Was that something important that you
wanted to show in showcase?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, I wanted to capture everyone's personality, and I think
oftentimes those black stories sometimes we only get shined when
something's like very terrible is going on. And I was like,
this isn't that, Like this is a celebration, and you know,
being in the community, I understand that, like guess, bad
things do happen, but like we're not always like in turmoil.
(15:21):
We do have joy. We are celebrating, we're with our
friends and family, you know, we're listening to future and
just hanging out sometimes. And that's what I wanted to
capture with those interviews.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well done, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yes, it definitely gives the vibe of I've stepped into
a bookstore, which is really awesome. Because Samantha and I
we like when we travel together, we always go to
bookstores and we go to libraries. It's just we love it.
(15:58):
So this is this is such a great, a great concept,
and it's something Yeah, I think a lot of people
don't know about. One of the things you talk about
in here, and people you interviewed talked about a lot,
is that there's a lot of discussion around knowledge being power,
(16:18):
the power of learning, the power of teaching that knowledge.
Can you expound on that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
In the introduction, which was written by Nikki Giovanni, she says,
pro to the people reminds us that black is beautiful,
but knowledge is power, and that is a quote from
one of the preeminent booksellers, Lewis Michau. And I think
what we're getting at is that black books, but books
(16:50):
in general, are very liberating. And in this country, the
project of black reading, black writing, black publishing, there's always
been tension there. It was illegal for us to read
when we were enslaved here, and now you see book
bands disproportionately affecting black books, and there's something there where
(17:15):
they attack the whole project of black thought. And so
I think, as black people, we know the importance of
books and reading and knowledge and passing that down, and
we understand if we don't keep that tradition going, what
could happen and what those who do not want to
see us flourish would like to happen. And I think
that's a trend or a through line that you see
(17:38):
from the eighteen thirties with David Ruggles as the first
black bookstore owner to current day.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes, well, speaking of current day, this is jumping ahead
a bit in our outline of question, but the book
does have a lot of discussion as well about the
importance of history. And as you said, right now we're
seeing such an active pushback on teaching black history and schools,
(18:12):
we're seeing so many book bands, So can you speak
to that and why it's this preserving of history and
these the black book stores that are doing it is
so vital right now?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think the story of the Black
book Store is unfolding in past and present tense, like
with the book, showing the book stories that no longer
exist in conversation with those that do. It's the same
with our history. And if you don't know what happened
before and what the state or the powers that be
(18:50):
did to try to stop the people that came before us.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
You can think like, oh.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Wow, this is so bad, like no one's ever gone
through this, like what are we going to do? But
the less sins are right there, Like book bands aren't new. Really,
they're kind of tame compared to what you know, the
FBI was doing before. There's so many instances of black
bookstores being firebombed and flooded. Black booksellers have been arrested, framed,
(19:18):
and you know there's something too. Knowing that you, as
a black person reading or selling books is so threatening
and you think, what are in these books that they
don't want us to read? And to me makes me
want to read them more. It makes me want to
know more. But yeah, it's been happening and it's still
happening unfortunately, but we are our elders and our ancestors
(19:38):
have shown us what we need to do.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Yeah, that's the like good news bad news situation of
like we've seen this before. It's been bad, but we
know we can do this because we have survived this
and we being so many marginalized people, but specifically of
the black community, and it's kind of and I've seen
it in the black community here in Atlanta and where
they're just like, yeah, it's been happening. Where have you been,
(20:02):
Like to the rest of the community and be like,
we've been doing the work. Now you're just noticing it.
And it's a reminder and that both of these things
is why not only do the black community and your
book and so much more that celebrate them pushing back
And it's to that point of understanding that part of
the rebellion is celebrating and making sure that we are
(20:24):
still acknowledging what is happening and how that that you exist,
we as a system exist and will not be tied
down or quiet. And I love that that's what this
book seems to represent. It's such a perfect timing and
bringing this type of joy but understanding and power of learning,
and the fact that you're giving us an amazing list
(20:48):
because I know you talked about so many of them,
but then in the later part of the book you
give even more. You're like, oh, yeah, I only talked
about these things these stores, but there's so much more,
And that's powerful in itself.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I think being able to have a record of
what has been done is really cool. Even some of
the bookstores that I have full profiles of have closed
since my reporting, but it's like, this is a snapshot
of what was going on during this time. This is
what we were thinking, this is what we are doing.
And then having the list in the back I thought
(21:20):
was important to show the ones that are going on now,
like I called it, like more to explore, and then
the ones that have closed, the list of those to
say like we were here, we did this, this was
the project that all of these stores and all these
people were a part of.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And the way the internet is going.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Out, how they're just a racing stuff left and right,
Like we need something printed and tangible so we can
have that.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yes, and this is such a great asset.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, Well I know you've been you've been talking about
this throughout. But why do you think that it is
so important that we do keep this history? Why is
it Why are black bookstores in black libraries so important?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I mean, as I said, they hold our histories and
they deserve for their histories to be told. They've done
so much in each movement in the United States that
have involved black people, and they're still out here doing
a lot, a lot of work. Many of the booksellers
have printing presses where they're putting out information themselves. That
(22:36):
was something that I saw as a trend between like
the sixties and nineties that that was really important to people.
And I think that kind of is what pros is about,
like putting out your own story. I was very lucky
that people trusted me to tell this story, but I
do think it came about because of like who I am.
I'm a black bookseller, and I'm telling the story of
(22:57):
black booksellers. And I think it's important to tell your
own story and tell it as authentic as possible, and
like you said, like capturing the full breath of it,
like not just the pain, but also celebrating that joy
as well. I love that.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And just because we have to ask, I think we
talked about this a little last time. You were on
about the book writing process in general. How was that
for you? I know you weres a different because you
actually were able to be more interactive and traveling, but
that could also be more stressful in trying.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
To do that.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
I was the writing process for you?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I mean I have of course not written anything like
this before. It was a lot of research. I think
before my writing had been kind of like more source
person and I tried to keep myself as out of
it as possible. I like peek in a little bit
at some point with booksellers that I got like super
close with, but that was different. And then also I
(23:54):
have contributors who are in the book, who wrote essays
and poems, and so that was a new experience of
being an editor while I'm being a writer too, and
kind of walking them through what I know will be
the end result because there isn't there hasn't been a
book like this before, so telling people like, yeah, I'm
doing anthology on black bookstores, and I kind of have
(24:14):
the vision in my head, but trying to get them
to the point where their piece will fit into that
seamlessly was a different experience. But I think it worked
out so well. I'm so happy with all the contributors.
They're so smart. I have such deep relationships to these bookstores.
We have people who are biographers of certain booksellers, people
(24:35):
who were managers past managers of the bookstores. So they
really have like these deep relationships, and I think it
shines through too.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
No, you did an amazing job incorporating different styles into
one book. Like you're having an interview and you were
having an essay and you were having the poetry. I
was like, wow, and then you're doing the excerpts and
the pictures of like she's just trying to do it
all fitting all that in the one book, and kudos
it looks a I.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Was like, I'm going to be Lauren Hill, do my
do my big one on my first one and be out.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I have a feeling this is not going to be
the only one.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
This is so good. That's that's what some people are saying.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Just just putting it out there. I'm just gonna you know,
that's my prediction, but I'm just gonna well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I also love that so much too, because it does
go back to the you know, making it feel like
you're in a bookstore. Here's all these different types of
writing you can find. Yeah, it was just great because
I was like, oh, yes, I want to go I
maybe want to go read a bunch of books, like check.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Out a bunch of books or something bookstore.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Even some of the contributors like they don't agree with
each other. And I like that too, because you go
into a bookstore, there's going to be a book that
says like this guy is orange, and it's gonna one
there's gonna be one that says the sky is blue,
and you get to read both and decide for yourself
what color is this guy. So there's different different opinions,
a diversity of thought throughout, and I think someone will
(26:08):
find something that really speaks to them throughout the book.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
One of the like Nerdier points I latched onto because yes,
Samantha and I have gone through the book writing process,
is that there was a discussion about kind of the
whole ecosystem of books, about like the publisher, the owner,
the libraries, the authors, and how these all these pieces
(26:44):
work together are don't and how people view how it
should work or how it should look versus how it does.
Do you have any thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so a lot of the booksellers, I'd say, in
like the sixties, we're also doing publishing, and then I
think a little bit after that the book signing, kind
of author celebrity of it all came together. So it's
interesting to see the different ways it has evolved. So
I'm talking to a bookseller who had a store in
(27:15):
the sixties. I was like, Oh, what were your author events?
Like it's like author events. We didn't do that type
of stuff. We were selling books and publishing books. And
then I'm talking to someone in the nineties they're like, yeah,
Terry McMillan saved our store, you know, Waiting to Excel.
We sold a million copies of that.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
And so it's like kind of seeing those trends and
kind of seeing things that you might take for granted,
like oh, yeah, of course these bookstores are doing author
events multiple times a week, but like that hasn't always
been the case. Seeing the importance people put on publishing
your own work and like having a press and being
able to say what you want to say and not
having to deal with like the big publishing houses was
(27:52):
something that I saw that people saw to be important.
And now you know, people are like fighting against Amazon,
which hasn't always been the case in the bookselling world.
And like now there's bookshop that's trying to you know,
help out with the indie booksellers and go.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Against Amazon too.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
So it's a lot of moving parts and they're all
working together or against each other. But yeah, we touch
on all of that in pros. But yeah, it's like
a little like insider thing if you've been in the
book industry, You're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
I love that You're gonna get the book world that
you never knew what existed exactly, the little beef that's
happening behind the scenes. You're like, well, I didn't think
about that. You forget about the fact that there was
like whole press like they were releasing their own books,
and like the level of independent authors who will trying
to just get their pamphlet out there or like the
novella's out there to make a point. So it's really
(28:49):
interesting to think on that, especially when you go through
the historical context of bookstores and publishing books and then
like fighting in civil rights eras and what that looks like,
and then what that looks like for today in the
midst of like literal attack on the black community, like
saying that black history should not exist because it makes
us sad. Like that's a whole different conversation. But the
(29:13):
importance of trying to support those businesses, And I know
this seems like an obvious question, but with everything outside
of just buying from these independent bookstores and supporting these bookstores,
what can we as those that would like to be
seen as allies, what can we do to make sure
that we are supporting these businesses if it's not just
(29:35):
by visiting them.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, I think one way that I say it would
be like the most sustainable is to make them a
part of your normal life. Like not just like, oh,
like this really popular books coming out out, buy it
from a black bookstore, which is great, But like I said,
they're doing these events every week. They have reading circles,
you know, they're bringing in authors, they're having writing salons.
(29:58):
So kind of making it a part of your life
in a way that fits naturally, so you don't feel like, oh,
I'm doing like this charitable thing, Like no, I'm getting
something out of it, the bookstores getting something out of it.
I'm really embedding into my community. I think is the
best way to do it. And even like going back
to like the book ecosystem. One thing that I thought
(30:19):
was interesting was even in the sixties, the big box
stores were stealing from the black bookstores. They would like
go in, write down what they had, and then there'd
be a display of flip black books there. So kind
of being cognizant of what these big box stores and
Amazon are doing because you kind of might think like, oh,
the big guys aren't even paying attention to the little guys.
(30:40):
But the little guys are you know, on the ground,
they know the community and can really curate. And then
you know, the big bohemos can just like take, take,
take and scale it to a way that makes it
so that the indis can't compete.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So, being like a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Aware of how you're supporting people and their business practices.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, on top of that, is there something that as
you know you're closing this chapter of this book is
coming out, is there something that you're really hopeful for
in terms of black bookstores and or trends that you're
(31:21):
hoping will come about.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, I mean, I hope black bookstores. I would like
to see them on every corner. They're a lot in
the book, but when you like travel around, you know,
they're kind of few and far between, and I think
they should be there, should be more, They should be supported.
And I would love to see someone you know, write
(31:45):
another book about black bookstores and include the onest weren't included,
and like continue this work of celebrating the black bookstore
as an institution and you know, highlighting what we've done
in the community.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That would be something that I think is really nice.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yes, absolutely. And for you yourself, do you have any
projects on the horizon that you're excited about.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Well, I am about to go on tour, so that
is my next project.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Kicking it off.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
In Atlanta at the Georgia Center for the Book on
the eighth, So maybe i'll see you all there.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
All right, I'm rinning it down the eighth of April.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Eighth of April, Georgia Center for the Book, seven pm. Yeah,
and I'll be in around the city. I'll be in Washington,
d C. Philadelphia, and New York, so focusing on that
and then we'll see what happens from there.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yes, so well you might want to take a break
after that, but that sounds amazing.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I see a break in my future. Yes, with you.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Being Yeah, you and your mom working like booksellers yourself.
What did your mom say about this book? I need
to know as she read it.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, she's read it. She got to see it early.
And because like when I was writing it, I would
just like go to the library, I would like write
it longhand and like a notebook and people are just
like what are you doing? Like You're always not like, yeah,
doing something like super secret, and then she saw it.
She's like, oh, this is what you've been doing. Like
(33:20):
this is so nice. And I don't know if y'all notice,
but like in some parts of the book you'll see
like handwriting that's actually my mom's handwriting. So yeah, I
love her handwriting. So I was like, let me get
you to write these pull quotes and the dedication. So
having a little piece of her in there too, it
has been fun. But yeah, she loves it. She's so excited.
(33:44):
She was like, you did it. I'm so proud of you,
Like this is big. It's big, Katie.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Oh my god, I'm not gonna lie. Having her being
a part of that book, it just makes me so
emotional for you. That's amazing. And I love that, like
the bond between you and that you have that in
your first book as like a memento for both of you.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yes, thank you, well, Thank you so much Katie for
joining us today, for coming back on. We would love
to have you anytime. Congrats again about the book. Where
can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
They can find you on Instagram. I'm at good books
ATL on Instagram, and if you want to keep up
with the book. It's prostothpeople dot com.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yes, and it comes out April eighth, correct.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
April eighth. There is a pre order incentive and you
get a cute little lapel pin that mimics the book,
but you got to get it in before April eighth.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, I love, I love a good incentive. Well, thank you,
thank you, thank you so much, Katie and listeners go
check out the book.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It is amazing. Thank you, And if you would like
to contact us, you can.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You can email us at Hello at stuffwenevertold you dot com.
You can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff
podcast or Instagram and TikTok and stuff we Never told you.
We're also on YouTube. We have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina
and executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey. Thank you,
Thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told you
the production my Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app
(35:23):
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