The Menstrual Cups Revival

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how stup
Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline. I feel like this
is a long overdue topic for menstrul cups. I can't
believe we haven't done it yet. I mean we've We've

(00:24):
made some stuff Mom Never Told You videos, We've certainly
mentioned menstrul cups. We've gotten a lot of letters about
menstrel cups, and we've posted a lot about menstrual cups
on the Stuff Mom Never Told You social media, and
they always generate so much conversation because the people who

(00:44):
use menstrel cups tend to be converts, like permanent forever
converts who love menstrel cups and want to preach the
good word about them. And it's similar to me as
I U D converts, where if it works for you,
it's amazing. Also, like i U D s, for every loyalist,

(01:09):
there is someone with a horror story that can leave
people who haven't tried either nervous exactly. And I saw
a conversation on the internet last night that illustrated this
point perfectly. So one of the articles that we were
reading had obviously a comment section under it, and one
particular woman was taking issue with using minstrel cups and

(01:33):
saying that, you know, y'all are all crazy. They don't
live up to the hype. They're not as great, and
much like I U d s. She said, they're not
very safe, and someone else got on there to comment
and said, actually, I U d s are very safe,
and then that woman came back on and said, um,
you know, I was uncontrollably bleeding from mine, but thanks

(01:55):
for telling me what my body does or whatever, whatever, whatever,
And I think that it's kind of an excellent, unfortunate
but kind of an excellent illustration of a lot of
the conversations that happened around both aut s and menstrual cups.
This one happened to encapsulate both of them. And of course,
the moral of both of those stories, whether we're talking
about birth control or period products, is the need for

(02:19):
us to accept that every individual body is different and
everybody has preferences. I mean, and some people are going
to love tampons forever more than they're ever gonna love
menstrual cups and vice versa. So we wanted to talk
though about menstrual cups because they've been getting so much

(02:39):
pressed lately, and yet they've been around for almost as long.
We're talking like only separated by months, as long as tampons. Yeah,
I had no idea, but we are only now hearing
about them in the mainstream well because of the context
of period Pride, which we have you know, we did

(03:01):
in a previous episode. I recommend you go listen to
it if if you're interested in learning more. UM. But
a lot of people are finally talking about their periods
and in menstruation and trying to remove the stigma, and
so I think that menstrul cups have sort of come
out of the closet, so to speak as a result. Absolutely,

(03:22):
and sales numbers are pointing to that. Racked magazine reported
that one of the industry leaders, DIVA Cup, which you
can find in a lot of drug stores and even
in places like Target. They have reported double digit sales
in the US and Canada for the past twelve years.
And I'm really curious to hear from Canadian listeners about

(03:47):
menstrual cup youth because they seem to be way more
common a in Canadian drug stores, UM, grocery stores, etcetera.
And also Canadians just use them more often. There seems
to be less of a squid factor happening. Is it
because Diva cups are from Canada? Are people just more
used to them? That's why I'm asking our Canadian listeners.

(04:09):
I'm not sure I have there there's no qualitative study
on the Canadian menstrual cup adoption culture, but if any
Canadians listening have some insight, definitely let us know. Because
there are American menstrual cup companies, but that certainly hasn't
penetrated our market as thoroughly as Diva Cup has in Canada. Um,

(04:33):
but we are starting to see that a growing desire
for a more available menstrual cup options are definitely out there,
even for women who have never tried them. For instance,
the kickstarter a couple of years ago for a collapsible
lily cup made by the Swedish company Intima, exceeded its

(04:57):
kickstart goal by four thousand per scent. They raised more
than three dollars in forty days from over eighty five
hundred backers, a number of whom told into my that
they'd never use meshil cups. And it's got a fancy design.
They do look quite sleek. I like the look of it,

(05:19):
like I might even want one just on my desk.
All right, I love that. I don't I don't get
a period, but you know, you could use it as
a little snack container, put some peanuts in it. So
which lily cup are you talking about that? Because the
kickstarter was for the collapsible one. Oh yeah, no, I'm thinking, okay, yeah,

(05:41):
I'm thinking of the one that's not collapsible. And it
looks like not that I remember necessarily what the castle
from Never Ending Story looks like, but that's what I imagine.
It is a giant lily cup. And actually, when I
saw a picture of the collapsible one, I had to
do almost a spittake because in my stocking for Christmas

(06:02):
one year, my mother gave me a little collapsible funnel,
you know that you can use in the kitchen, you
can make cocktails with it, you can do whatever. Um,
And I was like, oh my god, my my bar
funnel looks exactly exactly like the collapsible lily cup. Well,

(06:23):
if you're ever in a pinch, you know, yeah if
I yeah, I know, except it's it's open at the end.
Am I going to defeat the purpose? But I did
have a moment of like, I literally for a moment
split second, just took a second to be like, oh
do I have a menstrul cup in my bar? No? Okay,
we're good. I gotta say to you. The marketing potential

(06:48):
of lining a lily cup to the never ending story
Castle is just pure delight because the idea of inserting
the never ending castle into your vagiant to help you
out through your period that seems fun, because I mean,
your period can feel like a never ending story boom.

(07:09):
Faith perfect and perfect um. What is not perfect, though,
was the Kickstarter for a product called loon Cup that
has not come onto the market yet and I don't
think it ever will come onto the market. Even though
it went viral, it generated a ton of attention. Kickstarter

(07:29):
selected it as one of its top projects for that
period when it was on period and O B g
U I N extraordinaire. Dr Jenn Gunter, who you must
follow on Twitter. Absolutely follow her. She's terrific. She describes
the loon Cup as quote an answer to a question

(07:52):
no one is asking or needs to ask. So before
we go any further, let's explain what the loon cup
allegedly does. So, it is a menstrul cup that has
in it a small battery and a bluetooth antenna. And
this is intended to much like a fitbit or something

(08:15):
along those lines, let you track facts and stats about
your period. And at first thought, it's like, oh, wait, no,
this could be valuable, like I need this health information.
I assure you you don't. Because one of the factors
is the color of the menstrual blood. So it tracks

(08:35):
the color, It tracks the amount of menstrual blood. It
tracks how many clots you're getting, if any, um. And
this is all information that Dr Gunter was saying, like
you as a human can use your human senses to
detect if your flow is heavy um. And rarely is

(08:55):
your doctor unless your period is unusually heavy or unusually light,
maybe your period has stopped altogether. Really, is your doctor
going to ask you for this information? You don't need
to know this information. It's like it's too much info
that could potentially send you into a tailspin of anxiety
if something looks weird because you're tracking it. Yeah, I

(09:18):
mean the the only practical use of loon cup is
the fact that it will sense and then text you
if it's starting to fill up and you need to
change it. But again that's part of just good menstrual
health habits. Um what I do love so loon cup
in case you have no idea, what we're talking about

(09:39):
is spelled l o o in cup, and I get it.
It's kind of you know, the play on Luna lunar moon.
I get it. However, I can't help but like think
of like a loony loony person. He looney, Like loon
is a bird, right, the loon? Okay, cool, So the
loon I think of the bird, but then I also

(09:59):
think of loon. Me. That makes me think of hysterical,
hysterical women using a loon cup. And that's I'm following
you all I got. We're at the end now because
it is kind of looney considering how the very design
is something that Dr Gunter gave a massive WTF two

(10:20):
because the bluetooth antenna sticks out just slightly from your vagina,
so you're going to be walking around with a little
thing poking poking out of your vagina, which that's sounds
so uncomfortable, say, by the bike riding you also have
a battery in in that you're going to be inserting

(10:42):
into your vagina, to which that's not necessarily going to
pose an immediate health risk. But it's like, yeah, maybe
this might be too much. Um, but I wonder if
it's virality is just sort of a byproduct of our
Silicon Valley culture of Oh, yes, we need technology to
fixed periods. Yes, that's what we need. Yeah, we need

(11:05):
to answer every potential problem with an app. Yes. Yeah,
but you know what, Uh, ladies, people, anyone who has
a period, you don't need You don't need any batteries
in your vagina to monitor your not in a menstrual
cup anyway, exactly. Um. So back to menstrual cups though,

(11:27):
aside from the ones that are doing way too many
things that we really don't need and like you said,
ruining bike riding, they have been a real dark horse
contender in the feminine hygiene market. Much like political third
parties in the United States, because you have right now

(11:49):
our two party system in the US with the Republicans
and the Democrats aka the maxipads and the tampons. I'm
not assigning any any political party necessarily to one of
the prod although I will say that Republicans are a
little more maxipad and here in the in the in
the background, you have like a third party, a menstrual cup,
where a lot of us are like, I know that

(12:10):
you've got like really good ideas, but I don't know
if they're too radical to really put my vote all
in for you. Do you like this analogy? Also, I'm
not implying that Hillary Clinton is in any way, shape
or form like a tampon. Just f y. I good, Yeah,

(12:33):
I just want to put that out there. I'll totally
prevent the letters subject line. I'm with tampon. And really
from the get go of commercially available menstrual cups, the
manufacturers have known that they're a long shot, largely by

(12:55):
virtue of us having to come in such close contact
i e. Putting our fingers in our vaginas, and not
only are close contact with our vaginas, but our vaginas
during menstruation, and of course, our whole menstrual culture, which
I referred to as a culture of concealment, is all
about keeping ourselves as kind of distance from the mess

(13:19):
of periods as possible. And in two thousand four, the
New York Times actually did a trend piece on menstrual cups,
quoting Harry Finley, who had really loved to interview sometime
because he's the founder of the Museum of Menstruation and
Women's Health mom dot org, which you should absolutely check

(13:40):
out if you haven't, and Finlay said quote, it will
never become mainstream in America. It involves too much contact
with the body. And I think most women are squeamish
about that. I think most people in general are squeamish
about that. Oh yeah, just even the concept squix this out.
Oh yeah, well, so, I mean for people who aren't

(14:01):
familiar though, with what using a menstrel cup in tails,
let's give you a bit of a rundown. So first
of all, the cup itself looks basically like a stemless
wine glass, uh, shrunk down to actually fit inside your
vaginal canal. Thank god. Yeah. I mean, I know that
we can technically push babies out through those vaginal canals,

(14:25):
but let's not go sticking wine glassless wine glass up
once a month you have like a like a white
wine glass, I can you know, honestly, I'm more of
a beer stun kind of you flow um And according
to Cleveland Clinic, if you do have a latex sensitivity,

(14:46):
just just stop for the silicone um menstrul cup and
it's inserted into your vaginal canal. Or if you're using
a soft cup menstrul cup, it's up around the cervix
and you do it by like folding it over. Like
imagine the Liberty bell turn upside down and you're folding
the Liberty bell and just sticking it up in there. Yeah.

(15:07):
For disposable soft cups, which I have used, they're almost
like Livestrong wrist bands. They have that you know, that
plastic e um flexible texture with a plastic you know
catch Catcher cup. Thank you the plastic cup, but Catcher,

(15:30):
I know my words, but you because the lives strong
band for a very small risk is flexible. You just
sort of squeeze it in the middle, making kind of
a figure eight with it, and it just goes right up. Yeah,
I mean, your your service gets to wear a little
rubber band that shows what cause it's supporting, depending on

(15:53):
the color um. So you can keep them in up
to twelve hours, I mean, depending on your flow obviously,
and uh, you can sterilize them in boiling water after
each cycle. Um, you can also use like baby bottle
sterilization bags. I mean, you should rinse them out every
time you take them out, but between cycles you have

(16:14):
a couple different options for sterilization. And I just like
the idea of a baby bottle sterilization bag that you
pop in the microwave for your menstrul cup. Yeah. I
don't know why I like that idea. Um, I just
didn't know that that existed. So I'm like learning about
all of these accessories that are related to things in
and around my vagina. And reusable menstrual cups like the

(16:39):
Diva costs between twenty and forty bucks, and in addition
to the Diva, legacy brands include the Keeper Instead and Lunette,
which apparently is a menstrual cup fave. Their tagline is
also one of my faves. It's Grandma didn't use tampons,
so you're grand out or won't either. But by now,

(17:02):
they're actually a couple dozen brands of menstrual cups out
there to choose from if you are curious about which
type is right for you, because they do come in
different shapes and sizes because we all do have different
vaginal canals and cervic situations going on. I highly recommend
going to Yes the Menstrual Cup live journal, which is

(17:26):
still going and it is so thorough, so you can
find whatever kind of product review you want. And speaking
of how all of our vaginal canals are different, they
aren't going to be for everybody, you might want to
double check with your guy. No, if you do have
an I U D. Yah, is there any sort of
problem with like suction, there's there's not necessarily a risk

(17:48):
of it being pulled out, but possibly uh with the
strings it being maybe just a little bit just yeah. Uh. Also,
if you have uterine fibroids um and or dropped uterus,
definitely talked to your kind ecologists who's probably going to
tell you that they're not going to be the best option.

(18:10):
And that's okay. That's the thing. It's totally okay if
menstrual cups are not for you. Yeah, we don't want
to pressure you. It's just given you the info. There's enough,
there's enough pressure on social media for you to use
menstrual cups. And by the way, I've recommended them here
to other people. But you know, it's like the I
E D. It's like some they're gonna be for some people.
They're going to be enough for some people. But far

(18:33):
more fascinating than the menstrul cup. For one one, is
the history of how these products were developed. I was
honestly very surprised, and and I don't know what this
says about me, but I was very surprised that um
minstrel cups were developed as early as they were. I
kind of thought that they would have started around the

(18:57):
fifties and sixties and seventies, when you started getting like
women's lib and and let's get in touch with our
bodies ourselves kind of stuff. Well, they definitely have a
resurgence around that time, and they are very much associated
with a feminists. But it goes all the way back
to eighteen sixties seven and a guy named s Hawker

(19:21):
who patented a cat amineal sack, which y'all this thing
it's it is, it's obviously invented by a dude. I'll
just say that I don't think anyone with a menstruating
vagina whatever I think that this would work. So what

(19:42):
this eighteen sixty seven sack was was a belt, an
actual belt that you would wear around your waist, and
hanging from that belt is the catamenial sack, which looks
in the drawing like a an empty condom. Yeah, and

(20:03):
you then insert that inte condom into your vagina. So yeah,
it actually it absolutely does look like some sort of
condom being dangled on some sort of thread or rope
or something that you, like you do stick up your

(20:23):
vaginal canal. And there's this illustration by Menstruation Museum, uh
curator Harry Finley showing that the in his illustration it
almost looks like a metal arm. But that can't be accurate, right, Harry,
Um some sort of thread that you stick the whole

(20:44):
entire sack up your vaginal canal. And so this like
menstrul condom like just hangs out under your cervix, which honestly,
it's not that terribly different design wise that it's like
a disposable menstoral cups. But imagine how uncomfortable when you
have something you're wearing, the belt and the arm whatever,

(21:06):
whether it's a threat, I'm not saying it's a good idea, no,
but like just imagine that that it's like dangling from
your waist all the way up to your cervix. I mean,
it does kind of look like a chastity belt. Yeah,
who would want to get into it? As hawker, He's
just rolling over in his grave right now, So misunderstood. Um.
There was one thing though that Natalie Shure noted in

(21:30):
a piece about menstrual cups in Pacific Standard magazine that
menstrual technology did really begin taking off around this time
in the nineteenth century, as women's lifestyles became more active.
We want to move around maybe when we're on our periods,
And she notes how a third of the patents for

(21:52):
all of these earliest menstrual products were filed by women,
which is a vast proportion compared to the two percent
of all women registered patents at the time. So it
does maybe want to come back and do another episode
just looking at menstrul technology. Yes, you know, and lady inventors,

(22:16):
although I mean that's like a massive category, but I
mean maybe I don't know. Same week, game week. Um,
all right, and now let's look at the timeline. Speaking
of minstrel technology, let's look at the timeline because it's
all pretty rapid in co text. Disposable paths hit the
market in thirties six, Tampon's first go on sale and

(22:40):
then just a year later, in nineteen thirty seven, we
get actress and dancer turned menstrul inventor Leona Chalmers, who
patents the first usable commercial minstrel cup. Yeah. Around that
same time, Dainty Made, Inc. Also introduced the Dainty ht

(23:00):
menstrual cup that came with this vaginal powder that I
think was supposed to address menstrul odor. There was a
lot of odor panic. There's still a lot of odor
panic in feminine hygiene marketing, but it was really front
and center of all of this uh menstrual development of
the time. But we got to talk more about Leonona

(23:21):
Chalmers because I mean, it's pretty cool that our menstrul
cups today on the market trace back to this rather
enterprising woman who had a lot of ideas. Really love douching,
and she really wanted to make menstrul cups happen, and
she imagined her menstrul cup, which would become the test

(23:44):
that being made of vulcanized rubber. The only problem with
that is kind of heavy to carry around in your
vagina all day and poor timing because when World War
two rolls around, all available rubber has to go to
the war effort. But then when she's finally able to

(24:05):
start making these things, she gets off on the wrong
foot marketing wise, because Leona, a woman of the stage,
takes out advertising not in places like Ladies Home Journal,
but rather in showbiz magazines like Variety, so like actresses
and other dancers can buy them, which would make sense, yeah,

(24:29):
because that was part of her inspiration, was having a
heavy flow and also being a dancer, and those two
things do not go well together at all, which I
can anecdotally confirm as a teenage ballet dancer who learned
the hard way not to wear her pink tights during
period weeks. Yeah. I also wasn't using t m I

(24:53):
alert listeners. I also wasn't using tampons for a while,
and I didn't use me too. And the chore of
first trying to conceal a maxi pad in a leotard
and then daring stretches praying that you don't hear it,
you know, the rustle of the maxi pad. Yeah, give

(25:17):
me rough um. But one one way that she also
marketed her test sets was through a book. She wrote
two books, but then one is the Intimate Side of
a Woman's life. Yes, and the cover is so racy. Yes,
and it's of her. It's this I thought, so. Yeah.
So it's a photo of obviously younger Leona undressed but

(25:42):
with a towel covering up her her nipples. So you
just see her her bed. You see a little cy
boat too. Yeah, Leona. Leona was I mean, but pretty
open for the day. Um. The book, though the intimate
side of a Woman's Life, didn't only address menstrual cups.
She kind of tried to like sneak it in there,

(26:04):
you know, like, oh, I've got so much information. Also, ps,
you should use my menstrual cup. You can write me
and I'll send you some. But the book had a
warning on it that it was for mature women only,
probably because it talked about doing so much. Well, she
was obsessed with it, and she talks about even like
the right position to get in to use the douche.

(26:27):
Did you did you see any of the drawings of
her positions? It looks like a one person Koma Sutra book.
Because I had no idea because, as we have talked
about on the podcast before, douching is not good for
your vagina down with a douche. But I didn't realize

(26:49):
and until reading the intimate side of a woman's life
that you sometimes have to contort yourself to most effectively douche.
Although effectively is um not exactly the right word, because
it's not effective because it ruins your vaginal pH But
one quote from her book says, the old saying position

(27:13):
is everything in life might as well be applied to
the douche, for it is a position assumed in performing
this act that brings about such excellent results. And really
the excellent result that she hammers home over and over
again is no vaginal discharge. What I know, Leona does

(27:35):
not like cervical fluid and listeners, if you caught our
episode on period Tracker technology, you know all about the
importance of cervical fluid. Poor Leanna, I mean, she was
trying to do her best, she really was, I mean,
and she believed in this product because even when it
totally bombed circle World War Two, she tries again. In

(27:57):
nine Yeah, she successfully pitched her menstrul cup to businessman
Robert Rick, to which I ask, the vacuum. I don't
know that it's the vacuum guid. I don't think it is.
It could be, though, because or put out an ad
in the Wall Street Journal, saying that he wanted to

(28:18):
buy some patents and develop some businesses. So Chalmers sees
his ad and contacts him, and she's like, hey, I've
I've got this swell patent for a menstrul cup. And
he is initially flabbergasted at the thought of working with
something so intimate, as he called it, but he gives

(28:41):
a test to his wife. She tries it, loves it,
so possibly Mr. Vacuum Cleaner. It turns out I just googled,
Oh it's not Mr Vacuum Cleaner. That was a could
be brothers. We don't know, we don't know. So Mr
Rick decides to invest in test and he even gets

(29:02):
a time Square billboard. Of course it's it's you know, delicate,
and it's phrasing and and its imagery that the copy
is basically tesset, not a tampon, not a napkin. And
then there's a picture of a tulip. Right, and and
Ric says that he chose the tulip logo because quote,

(29:24):
women's psychological reaction to the symbol has proved to be quick, complete,
and very positive. I mean, I like a tulip, I
love tulips. I mean, you know, I love tulips, whether
we're chicken wineglasses or tulips up or who has I
love it. It's effective. Um. And then in ninety eight Tassets,

(29:45):
Barbara Waldron patterns a disposable menstrual cup and basically tries
to make this thing called tassaways happen. They change, you know,
tasset tass away makes sense. We're definitely like in full
throw of our consumer and disposable culture at this point.
They didn't take off, and the company ends up folding

(30:06):
in nineteen seventy three. But the thing is that kind
of left all of these dedicated menstrual cup users in
the lurch. Menstrual historian Kelly o'donald said that thousands of
women ended up writing into the company in distress. They
were like, oh my god. I mean it's bad enough
when like, you know, the cosmetics company retires your favorite

(30:27):
foundation or whatever, Like, imagine if they retire your favorite
menstrual cup. It's like the Seinfeld episode where Elaine is
buying up all the sponges. Yes, so right around when
the company is folding, women's liberation is really hitting full
steam and there is a d I y nineteen seventies

(30:49):
feminist self help book circulating that recommends repurposing old diaphragms
as proto menstrual cups. And apparently this has been going
on for a while, reusing a cervical caps and diaphragms
as your your period product rather than going out and
buying tampons and pads or using an old zip block bag.

(31:12):
And it's way better than that going doing the Hawkard
method in your built some dental floss in a in
a sandwich bag. That's so horrifying. Um. And then and
then in lou Crawford introduces the keeper. I guess because

(31:32):
it keeps yes menstrul blood right, you can eat and
keep it up to twelve hours. Please don't keep it
beyond that. Yeah. But the thing is, and I don't
understand this, it's brown. I'm not saying that everything in
the world has to be pink glitter unicorn print, although
how amazing would a paint glitter unicororn print menstrul cuppy

(31:58):
Lisa Frank seriously license is her products on so much stuff?
She should really get in the met she should consider it.
But yeah, like why brown. I had a moment when
I was reading the sources and uh for for this episode,
and I came across that old tidbit of information. Yeah,
credit where credit is due. Be. Julie Shaw wrote a

(32:18):
first person review of the Soft Cup, and in it
she made me laugh out loud when she gives a
condensed history of menstrel cups and saying, quote, the keeper
is an unfortunate shade of mud brown. And it is.
And I was telling my husband about this because I
thought it was hilarious and he so didn't get it

(32:39):
because he was like, well, I mean that makes sense
because you know, it's closer to flesh tones, so it's
more concealed. And I just said, you don't wear it
on your face. And I told him without even thinking,
these words came out of my feminist mouth, saying women

(33:00):
don't like brown, which I it was a very strange
conversation to have. It sounds like, but why, like why why?
I don't know why you'd make it brown. I don't
know either. Well, maybe it's it's cheaper to do that.
You probably don't have to add want to make it red?
Oh that be. I know a lot of the cups

(33:21):
these days are various shades of pink and purple. But
back to our history, the Keeper is kind of the
go to in more feminist circles, Like old school feminist circles,
they were all about the Keeper. Um. Lou Crawford is
very proud of the fact that the storage bags that
they would come in were also made by women. Since

(33:44):
the Keeper is designed to last so long you can
keep it like five years. Um. She broke it down
to say that they cost only four dollars a year,
which is why some of her fellow feminist friends thought
that they should have named it the Liberty Bell totally
man liberating your finances. But it didn't take off because
partly because it's so associated this point with a subculture

(34:07):
more of like a vegan, super feminist radical subculture. I mean,
I think it still has a hint of that, yeah culturely,
I mean, you know, menstrul cups are advertised by and large.
If I see an ad for a menstrual cup, it
tends to be on like a specifically feminist website. Yeah.
I I might have first been exposed to them via

(34:29):
Bitch and Bust magazine. That's just what I was thinking too.
And speaking of those though, like those types of magazines
and also the Internet in general, like so many the
Internet capital I Internet uh really helped bring the menstrul
cup into the mainstream as it is more so today,

(34:52):
starting with the launch of that menstrual cup live journal
in two thousand two. Dude, you sent me that link
and I was like, oh, live journal, relic of a
bygone era, and I clicked on it and people had
just posted like that day. Yeah, it's still going strong
man people. That's the thing too. People who love menstro
cups love menstroke cups. And of course in two thousand two,

(35:15):
you'd need to find other people who were using them
to figure out, you know, what to do best practices,
where to buy them. And two years later, like we
mentioned earlier, there was a trend piece on it in
the New York Times and they reported that they're hardly
the rage, but quote use of them is growing, especially
at women's colleges and through alternative health websites. Those women

(35:40):
at their colleges, essentially feminists really like them. Um. And
in that New York Times report they said that the
Keeper estimates around one hundred thousand women used them, and
at that time, Fledgling glad Rags reported that around people
were using the air reusable products. So a general movement

(36:04):
away from buying tampons and pads at the grocery store
market things. Not I mean, not a majority of women
by any stretch, but a gradual shift in in the
way of thinking. Well, and it's just clear that some
of us want an alternative. Just Land the third political party,
hello and that. And when we come right back, we're

(36:28):
going to look at the menstrual cup landscape today and
talk more about why those mental cup evangelists in their
praises so loudly, and also get more into why it's
taken so long for menstrual cup awareness to be raised.

(36:59):
So one of the benefits of using menstrual cups that
a lot of its fans tout is the whole issue
of cost savings. And of course though this would depend
on your flow, right, I mean, if you typically have
a light period versus a heavy one, you might not
get as much of the cost savings from opting for

(37:19):
a menstrual cup over tampons or pads. And there was
a Canadian survey that found that women used a median
thirteen menstrual products per cycle, which equates to a hundred
and sixty nine products per year, which corresponds to more
than seven hundred and seventy one million products used annually

(37:40):
in Canada. So that's going to go to the environmental
footprint for sure, because you're using we're throwing away a
ton of pads and tampons every year. But in terms
of the cost, the according to this Canadian survey, which
is cited a lot in none Stroll Cup literature, the

(38:01):
estimated costs for tampon use of their participants was thirty
seven dollars and forty four cents per year, which they
noted is similar to the retail costs of one menstrual cup,
and they concluded that the cost savings is moderate rather
than as dramatic as it's usually framed. But again, things

(38:24):
are just going to depend on how many disposable products
you would otherwise use, So for people with heavy flows,
you could save a lot of money. Um, And just
to toss out some numbers, if you go to Target,
a Diva cup costs thirty bucks. You can also at
Target get a Lily cup, that Kickstarter product that is

(38:47):
now on shelves for forty bucks. And Target doesn't sell
the disposable soft cups, but at CBS you can get
a twenty four account of those for thirteen fifty and
at thirteen fifty, of course, costs a lot more, about
twice as much as a box of tampons, But those
soft cups can be left in for much longer earth
than tampons. Tampons can stay in up to eight hours,

(39:10):
whereas soft cups can stay in twelve hours. And you
can also sleep with them them and have sex with them,
and if you want so. The potential for cost savings
is absolutely there. How much money you will actually pocket,
we'll simply depend on your cycle and whether it fits
into potentially a lifestyle where you're already doing things like

(39:33):
trying to recycle, trying to reduce your environmental footprint, etcetera, etcetera.
And once people try them, they do seem to like them. Uh.
That Canadian survey that we just mentioned is so often
cited because it's found that the women who tried menstrual
cups said they would use them on a regular basis
and recommend them to a friend. And while they were

(39:56):
initially associated with more vaginal discomfort, because like the first
few times you tried to put in a tampon, it
can you know you have to get the hang of it.
But once people did, they're like, oh, yeah, so it's
no big deal. I a of them. And in industry speak,
that's called a high pickup rate. Essentially, you know, you

(40:16):
try something out and you're like, oh, I'm gonna I'm
gonna try this again. It's like you know when you
go to Costco and you get one of those samples,
You're like, I'm gonna go buy eighty two of those dips.
I love to picture like Betty the sample giver at Costco,
like handing me one of those tiny cups with a
menstrul cup in it. There are you, guys, Wadie. It's

(40:38):
just a little one if if you like, and we
got a whole box back here five hundred enough really, Betty,
I'm not going to live that long to any lifetime.
But going back to the internet influence, companies like Diva
Cup have talked about how helpful social media and online

(41:01):
videos have been because our period buying choices, similar to
birth control, are very word of mouth. These are things
that we are going to be likelier to buy if
we hear about it from a friend. Well, yeah, I
mean I kind of. It's it's definitely not the same thing,
but it kind of reminds me of our episode on

(41:21):
P funnels, like the pmate things like that, where there's
a massive squick factor too for a lot of people
about like putting like a funnel against my body, where
is the is the YearIn going to go everywhere? But
the people who use them, the people the people who
use pmates and P funnels and things like that are

(41:44):
totally evangelists for them, especially when it comes to you know,
anything from camping to working in fields to you know,
being in the military, how important they are to safety,
uh not getting a bladder infection. And it's kind of
the same idea for a lot of women in similar

(42:05):
positions who talk about UM menstrrel cups. Yeah, you can
buy them at ri e I for that very reason.
They are very camping and outdoors friendly. Emily grass Lee,
who hosts The Brain Scoop on YouTube, who is a
super cool stem woman, made a video not long ago
about how menstrul cups are often the preferred period product

(42:28):
for scientists who work out in the field menstream scientists
out in the field um and way back in the day,
in fact, when all of these first commercial period products
were launching. Companies would hire what they called lady agents
to go door to door to basically say, hey girl,

(42:49):
you know, just speaking woman to woman, uterus to uterus.
Did she opened her trench coat and have like a
whole bunch of menstrel cups inside? Yes, although I do
hope it was just a fashion cape instead of a
trench yeah. Or she like unlocks her big briefcase full
of menstrual cups. But again, these have been around so long,

(43:14):
We've had lady agents trying to sell them to us,
and yet it's taken so long for them to take off.
So what's going on? Well, for one, I mean, yeah,
the overarching theme is kind of the squid factor that
a lot of people have with their periods and their bodies,
and the fact that we just tend to stick with

(43:37):
what we know. I mean, when I first got my period,
my mother handed me a box of tampons and a
box of pads, you know, like go forth read the
instructions and the tampon box that was off. That was
a difficult day. Um. And the fact that like culturally,
like we were saying, they've been so associated with some
sort of like radical feminist hippie underground. Almost. Yeah, for

(43:59):
a long time, I think people just thought the only
weirdos use them like a menstrul cup. And you know what,
I'm going to go ahead and say that the fact
that menstrul is in the name might be part of
the branding issue because the whole feminine hygiene market has

(44:19):
been centered around inventing an entire new language where we
don't have to say menstruation or mensis or blood. So
maybe they could rename it and there could be some alliteration. Well,
that's why you have like the Diva cup or the
Luna cup, C Word cup, the Sea Ord cup, the
C and C cup. I know we need to get

(44:41):
on that. We really do want to get into stuff.
And I've never told you branded p funnels and menstrul cups.
If anyone knows how we can do that, we're not
even kidding. And then, you know, going back to the
constant theme of this episode, and something that Kristen hit
on earlier is the fear and sort of stigma that's
around putting our finger is on our volvas or in

(45:02):
our vaginas when it's not something sexual, when it is
just to be in touch with our bodies and our
health and that kind of stuff. Um. Elizabeth Moore, who's
the general manager of the Keeper, Inc. Told Time Magazine,
you can tell a woman about it and her first
reaction is going to be gross or oh god, no way.
It had to come through the midwives and doulas and vegans. Yeah,

(45:26):
people who are are just more attuned to and and
less freaked out by our vaginas and yeah, and just
our bodies and our general body processes. And they're similar
rhetoric around tampons sometimes, especially among more conservative circles who
are not kosher, with the idea of something being penetrated into,

(45:52):
inserted into a girl's vagina that could possibly maybe de
virginize her. You know, I mean, we just we just
have so so much stigma around all of it, around periods,
around vaginal contact, the concept of virginity, the whole, the
whole shebang. Um. But for companies like Procter and Gamble,

(46:17):
and also for companies like say a CVS, these big
drug stores and grocery store chains, menstrual cups have been
a hard sell because they save too much money, so
they lack a quote future return opportunity. So especially for
something like a reusable diva cup where you're not going

(46:38):
to have to come back every month to buy. Some
drug stores and grocery stores have been reluctant to stock
them because it's like, why they're not going to want
to come back to my store. Well, but that's ridiculous
because everybody has to go to the drug store in
the grocery store. And also just personally, this is nothing
but anecdotal. I kind of look at CVS as a
toy store. I love to walk up and down the

(46:59):
makeup of skincare aisles for a long time. Well, it
sounds like you should be a lady agent of my
fashion cap what I stocked to menstrual cups. And it
also makes sense why companies, the bigger companies that produce
you know, mainstream tampons, pads, and pantiliners have not shifted

(47:19):
focus or expanded their lines to menstrual cups because it
is an incentive for them to make these products as
disposable as possible. I mean, there's even, um, you know,
some skepticism over UH brands that will donate their mentrual
products to developing countries because people say, oh, well, yeah,

(47:43):
this might be really great for girls who definitely need
these some kind of menstrual product. But it's also great
for your company because you're going in and establishing a
brand relationship and like that habitual use. So we talked
about what you learned with first you often stick with.
So there's a out of capitalism tied up in this too,
which is part of why I think there is a

(48:05):
feminist appeal to it, where it's like, no, this is
something where we don't need to necessarily rely as much
on a corporate product, shaking off the man right, get
out of my ute. And a lot of people tout
the safety of menstrual cups over tampons, and that's because,
of course, since the nineteen eighties, tampons have been associated

(48:26):
with the risk of toxic shock syndrome UM, because of
the danger that's inherent in using super hyper massively absorbent
tampons and then leaving them in for long stretches of time. UM.
But there's really no indication for sure establishing any sort
of like massive, uh safety benefit to menstrual cups over

(48:50):
tampons today. Yeah. I mean, while there's been extensive testing
on whether the products promote bacteria growth, like the silicon
they're made of um and there's no evidence that they
do that, so they're safe from a bacterial sense. But
in two thousand and fifteen, the first confirmed case of
menstrual cup related toxic shock happened. And the way this

(49:14):
went down was the woman accidentally, you know, cut herself.
Because our vaginal canals are sensitive skin, she cut herself
while inserting a Diva cup, and analysis determined that the
high volume of blood collection, which is a benefit of
a menstrual cup, plus though that mucosal irritation promoted the

(49:38):
toxic shock related bacterial growth. Although it is also good
to note that our periods and the products we use
to manage them are not the culprits of toxic shock.
All the time. Men can get toxic shock, kids can
get toxic shock. Women have gotten toxic shock even after
they stopped using tampons. So this one case does not

(50:01):
necessarily mean throw out all of your menstrual cups. Of course,
and going back to Jen Gunter, Dr Jen Gunter, our
feminist O B g U I N faith. She analyzed
this case study and concluded that we really can't say
for certain weather menstrual cups are safer than tampons, and

(50:23):
she has very straightforward recommendations of what to do with
that information. Yeah, just choose what works for you. Yeah, yeah,
she says, quote always choose the lowest absorbancy possible, although
she says, I know that some people are rolling their
eyes because some people just have a really heavy flow. Also,
wash your hands before putting in a menstrual cup or tampon,

(50:45):
it sounds like. Also clip your finger nails, make sure
you don't have any jagged nails going on, don't leave
them in for more than the twelve hours, And try
to avoid tampons or cup if you are just spotting,
as very low flow increases the trauma with insertion. So
for this reason, menstrual cups don't have to be for everyone,

(51:09):
but they are a viable alternative for a lot of people.
And to me, the biggest hope I have for all
of the publicity that menstrual cups have been receiving is
that maybe this is also pointing us in the direction
away from vagina phobia. I'm going to sound like an

(51:30):
old person real real fast, but I have a lot
of hope and optimism around our younger generations. Oh absolutely,
I think about the period Pride was the europp periods
in the US at least really went mainstream. Yeah, And
I mean just you see it in like free the

(51:50):
Nipple campaigns. You see it in all sorts of social
media based pushes. UM. I just think a lot of
young people today are leading the way in terms of
just general body positivity, UM, whether it's around weight and
body shape, whether it's around periods, ad menstruation, or just

(52:11):
nudity whatever. UM. I think there are a lot of
of cool people on the internet, UM, pushing body positivity,
and I think this is a part of that. And
I think a lot of young people want to be
educated about other options. UM. I think that there's a
general questioning going on about like why do we have
to do things the way that they've always been done.

(52:32):
That's that's how I feel anyway observing conversations online. Oh
absolutely agree. UM. People also feel though the kind of
the final worry with mentional cups, which is a practical
concern and it is something that happened to me in fact,
is what if your cup runneth over? You know, it's

(52:56):
it's I've talked to women before who are totally fine
with the concept of putting it in, but it's more
the worry of what happens when I take it out.
And I did have a situation once at work where
I had to manage the a little still in the
office bathroom and it was very awkward. And I think

(53:18):
that that stuff will just sometimes happen. But if you
use a tampon or pad, there's still potential for mess
to get places where you don't want it to be. So,
you know, I mean, it's kind of what's the old saying,
half of one half dozen of the other six and
one half dozen of the other. That's that's it. So now, listeners,

(53:44):
give us your mentional cup stories. We want to know
your thoughts, your feelings, your flows. We've talked a lot
about our flows, so now it's time to share. And also,
fellas listening, I'm really curious to know what you think
about this as well, partly because one of the comments
on the Racked article that we've been citing a bunch

(54:07):
came from a guy who was mystified at this idea
that periods have been stigmatized, and he, to his credit, said, listen,
I'm I mean, I'm talking as a person with you know,
this person with Penis and guy, I don't, I can't
personal experience this, um. But he was like, I had

(54:28):
no idea this was such a big deal. UM. So
I just want to know what what the word is
out there on menstrual cups. Mom Stuff at how stuff
works dot Com is where you can send them. You
can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages
on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to
share with you right now. So I have a letter

(54:52):
here from Lacy about our episode on Heroin. She writes,
I especially liked the disc session on the racism at
play and the way we view addiction in your episode
on women and Heroin, and the point you made about
treating addiction as opposed to punishing it is so necessary.
I do have one qualm with the episode, and that

(55:12):
it glossed over the reasons people become addicted to heroin,
maintaining at its center the trauma background of many heroin users,
as well as doctors who overprescribe opiates. Of course those
things are valid, but I want to share the unique
perspective of many people with chronic pain, myself included. I
believe one unexpected side effect of cracking down on opiates

(55:33):
has been an increase in heroin addictions for people who
have chronic pain. There's a significant portion of the society
who suffer from chronic pain for which we do not
yet have adequate treatment. Opiates are no longer recommended for
most chronic pain because of the lack of long term
effectiveness in their risk for addiction. But this sleaves chronic
pain patients defend for themselves and finding behavioral strategies and

(55:56):
medications that southe the pain. We are told to meditate,
we are told to try not to think about it.
We're given other medications to try that don't work. Out
of the desperate need for pain relief, some of us
will turn to heroin. Yes, we need to treat people
who are addicted in ways that are humane, but we
also need to continue to look for more effective ways
to treat chronic pain. Lacy, thank you so much for

(56:19):
sharing this and raising a very important point. And women
in chronic pain is an episode that we have not
done yet but has been requested and we absolutely need
to take a closer look at so thanks so much.
So I have a letter here from Rachel Um. She
is a family doctor just finishing her first year in
practice in Wisconsin, and so she had a lot of

(56:42):
feedback for us UH in regards to our heroin episode
and the opioid epidemics. So she said, there are a
couple of points your episode brought up. First, there are
definitely bad egg pill mill docs out there, but I
can just say that it is so difficult to navigate
at the dynamics of figuring out who is a good

(57:02):
candidate for controlled substances like pain medications. It feels like
playing with fire whenever you prescribe them, because they are
so addictive and have so many risks, and you want
your patient to be healthy, but there is such stigma
around addiction, mental health, and trauma that patients can get
really offended and upset when you try to have a
discussion about those risks. If I could give one message

(57:23):
to the world, it would be please, please, please be
open to all of the suggestions your provider may have
about other ways to manage a pain. There's so many
more effective and less risky ways to manage pain than opioids. Second,
I wanted to provide a little more info and clarification
on the treatment options you outlined methodone and bupreneur freeing
are both considered opioid substitution therapies. They do stimulate the

(57:47):
same receptors in your brain as heroin or pain pills,
though in a more reliable and regulated way than street drugs,
and notably without the possibility of the diseases that come
with intravenous drug use. Both are abused resistant and not
abused proof. It's still possible to abuse both of those drugs,
though it's more difficult with bupreneur fraine than methodon. However,

(58:07):
there's an important contrast between them, especially in rural areas.
Methodone can only be prescribed for addiction in the context
of a specialized methodone treatment center. In my area, the
nearest one is more than an hour away and has
several months long waiting list. If one of my patients
was fortunate enough to find a spot, they will still
have an hour drive each way each time they go

(58:29):
to the clinic, which is initially every day. This really
isn't feasible for most people living in rural areas. Upreneur fraine, however,
can be prescribed by any physician who completes an online
training program. The beauty of this is that you can
be your regular doctor who takes care of the medical
treatment of your addiction, just like any other chronic disease
you may have. In my area, currently, the nearest provider

(58:51):
for this is also an hour away, though I have
plans to change that in the next year or so
by completing the training myself. I know you mentioned nel
treux ozone as well. That's the medicine the block the
opioid receptors rather than stimulates them. It's available as a
pill by itself, as a pill in combination with buprenorphine,
and maybe most excitingly, as a once a month shot.

(59:13):
It works quite well, and that even if you relapse
and try to get high, it will take thousands of
dollars of heroin to overcome the medicine. So once you
get the injection, your brain essentially has a whole guaranteed
months to start healing from your addiction. The bummer is
that the shot is poorly covered by most commercial insurances.
If you or your listeners are wanting to do something

(59:35):
about the opioid epidemic, let me encourage you to contact
your legislators as well as your insurance companies to advocate
for better coverage. For addiction treatment and especially the nil
truck Zone shot. Wow. Well, Rachel, thank you for your
um physician perspective and I'm so glad that you are
getting that special training. So thank you for writing in,

(59:57):
and thanks to everybody who's written into us. Mong Stuff
at how stuff works dot com is our email address
and for links to all of our social media as
well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with
our sources. So you can learn even more about menstrual cups.
Head on over to stuff mom Never Told You dot
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(01:00:22):
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