CLASSIC: The Death of Jeffrey Epstein

Earlier this year the guys traced the rise of the enigmatic financier and child abuser Jeffrey Epstein, discovering a quagmire of crime, corruption and cover-ups implicating some of the world’s most powerful individuals. It seemed Epstein’s connections effectively placed him above the law - at least, that is, until renewed public scrutiny and criminal investigations found Epstein arrested once again and, this time, placed in a real prison. Many speculated Epstein would never go to trial. On August 10th, he was found dead in what the media described as an “apparent suicide”. So what happened?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist. We returned to you again with a
classic episode. It is one that remains terrifyingly relevant in
the world today. Gosh, you guys remember jeff Jeffy jadag
Jeffrey Epstein, the financier, disgraced financier.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
What he had a plane or something made some hay.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Had an island, had a quagmire of crime, corruption and
cover upsos diamonds.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
If I'm not mistaken, Thank you for bringing that up.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
It still bothers me.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Well, it's just the hallmark of someone's doing up to
no good. Sketchy.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's a sketchy thing to have, you know. We try
not to be judgmental on this show. So hot take
Jeffrey Epstein, We'll say it.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Kind of a pill. Not a good dude, not a
great guy.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
And we were, if I recall correctly, a few years back.
It was twenty nineteen. We may have been in Florida somewhere,
I think for podcast movement or something when the news
of Jeffrey Epstein Epstein's death hit.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Thank you're right, yeah, because he died August tenth of
that year, twenty nineteen. Is this the one in the
hotel room when we were sitting around.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, So I think we had to jump
in and get right to it.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Wow, you can tell that we are fascinating with this.
We don't have all of the answers. We know that
Jeffrey Epstein of course passed away in prison, but how
on August tenth he was found dead twenty nineteen, in
what the media and the authorities described as a apparent suicide.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Unless you think this episode might be dated, I would
posit that it's actually very interesting to listen to our
past selves, kind of trying to make sense of the
little information that was out there and see how it
stacks up to what we know today. I would maybe
argue even that we don't know a hell of a
lot more.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Well, this is before the meme thing, before the Oh yeah,
and Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, we had eyes on it. The story does continue,
But for anybody who's looking hoping for a factual investigation,
this is the episode for you. So let's roll it.

Speaker 5 (02:24):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they Don't want you to know a
production of iHeart Radios, How Stuff Works.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Noel.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
They call me Ben. We are joined in spirit with
our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decand A. Most importantly,
you are You are here, and that makes this stuff
they don't want you to know going to be completely transparent,
because transparency is important to us on this show and
hopefully important to those of us listening along. We are

(03:14):
not in the studio today.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
No, We're in a hotel in Orlando.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Is it a motel or a hotel or a holiday
and it's a little RESORTI actually there's a lazy river
outside a pretty dope water slide situation that we have
not had a chance to enjoy yet, but maybe after this.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
I heard good things about the water slide. It's true
a series of circumstances have found us here in Orlando,
but we also found ourselves compelled to update a very
important topic that you have doubtlessly read about in the
news recently, and you have known about since at least January.

(03:56):
If you are a longtime listener of our show, perhaps
we can sum it up Thus, Lee I don't know
you want to do some foreshadowing from the New York Times.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yes, so, yesterday, as we're recording this, New York Times
opinion columnist Ross Do thought, I think that's how you
say it. He wrote a piece called Jeffrey Epstein and
When to Take Conspiracies Seriously interesting. Yeah, and we highly
recommend that you read this just first of all. But
here is just a little bit of a taste.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, a couple of pretty quotable quotes here. This is
just so so validating for us as a show.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I love this.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
The challenge in thinking about a case like the suspicious
suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the supposed billionaire who spent his
life acquiring sex slaves and serving as a procureur to
the ruling class, can be summed up in two sentences.
Most conspiracy theories are false, but often some of the
things they're trying to explain are real.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, it's pretty intense, and that's all you really need
to know. That's just how he gets into the article.
But he goes on to explain essentially what we do
on this show exactly.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Those last two sentences could kind of be a thesis
statement or a mission statement for this show, So many
of the things we talk about are a mix of
provable things and completely things that you would wildly conjecture
on whether they're real or faults or trumped up to
explain things by kind of using reverse logic to impose
a narrative on things that we maybe don't fully understand,

(05:28):
whether it's the inner workings of the government or UFOs
or anything like that, the you know, behind the scenes
dirty dealings of the rich and powerful. But with this
Epstein case, to your point, Ben, we covered about a
year ago. Everything we covered in that episode pretty much
just proved to be true.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
And so this is an update on our earlier episode
about the disgraced financier and proven child abuser Jeffrey Epstein.
Given the graphic and troubling nature of this story, this
episode may not be appropriate for all audiences. Things get
pretty dark. They get dark pretty quickly. Without replaying the

(06:12):
entire episode in which we explore Epstein's biography and the
high level outline of his crimes and hism, we can
simply say that he was often advertising himself as an
enigmatic hedge fund manager. The problem was that his clients, however,
many existed were secret. And the weird thing is hedge

(06:33):
fund managers leave a large traceable footprint if they are
actually hedge fund manager.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
And yet the source of much of his wealth remains
kind of a mystery.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Even the amount of his wealth remains because in the
quote that you just read, right, billionaire is in air
quotes right. So let's go ahead, and if you haven't
listened to that first episode, pause this and check it
out because this is valuable information. We'll hang on, We'll

(07:04):
be right here. Great, Okay, so we're all caught up.
Here are the facts. On January fourth of this year,
when we released this episode How Jeffrey Epstein Broke the
Law and Got Away, we explored the rise and fall
of this mysterious money man, Jeffrey Epstein. He was famous
in financial circles for his secret list of clients, a

(07:26):
few of whom were publicly identified, the founder of Victoria's
Secret being one. He was also famous in his social
circle for being a massage fanatic, constantly surrounded by women
and children. You'll hear this referred to in the media
as underage girls, right or young women. To be very

(07:50):
very clear, the gamut or age range we're talking about
here does include like children who are fourteen. This guy
was a serial offender and showed no signs of letting
up on his behavior. In fact, it's due largely to

(08:11):
the efforts of a journalist named Julie Brown and her
team at the Miami Herald that the national public was
even aware of this in the mainstream. Epstein's story made
national headlines in twenty eighteen. The Herald identified eighty victims
and located around sixty. The spooky thing is that they
all had the same story. When they were either teenagers

(08:34):
or children, Epstein and his crew had recruited them to
participate in sexual activity, including forcing them to have sex
with other people at his command.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
A lot of times very old men.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Sure Dershowitz, one Alan Dershowitz.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean, that's what makes this extra disturbing is the
fact that he was grooming these people to essentially the
term that was using that op ed was become sex slaves.
And we've heard some things come out in the news
too recently about how he intended to recede the human

(09:13):
race by impregnating as many women as possible, like with
his in his image kind of you know, just a
complete psychopath and megalomaniac and just absolute degenerate.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
And would never go to jail ordinarily. Right.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Well, that's why we were that's why we made that episode, right,
because we realized that he had gotten away with it.
We put it in the title, you know, thankfully as
we're going to continue on here he didn't get away
with it, or at least he was going to be
held account.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Uh, you know, that's very optimistic.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
I think it seemed as though it was actually happening
this year.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, agreed. So what we're talking about here is legal
troubles kick into high gear in the early two thousand,
way before The Herald begins writing about it. In July
of two thousand and six, the FBI began investigating Epstein
and something called Operation Leap Yeer. Operation Leapyear resulted in
an indictment in June of two thousand and seven. It
was like fifty three pages long, never made it to

(10:16):
a grand jury. And that's when a guy named Alexander
Acosta comes into.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Play, easily, one of the other main villains in this story.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yes, yeah, he was at the time the US Attorney
for the Southern District of Florida, and he agreed to
a very unusual plea deal with Epstein. The deal was
that they would grant him immunity from all federal criminal
charges for his crimes. They would also grant immunity for

(10:49):
four co conspirators that were named, and additionally anybody else,
anybody else, they'd be considered a co conspirator. A potential
conspirators would also go unnamed and receive immunity.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
If that's not just giving a straight up pass, I don't.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Know what is.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yeah, it's it's.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Imhorrant, and I think he was. There was a time
even during the proceedings where he was allowed to go
to work right.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yeah, twelve hours he could be gone.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right and his prison door after his sentence, his prison
door wasn't locked. He was able to use his own driver.
He formed a foundation shortly before he was in this
work release program and dissolved it right after. So he
would go to the office for his foundation, yeah, every day. Also,
the tricky thing about this is that the victims were
not notified of this plea deal, of course, so they

(11:42):
had no say in it. According to the Miami Herald,
when this non prosecution agreement occurs, it shuts down the
FBI probe into whether there were more victims, whether there
were more conspiratory.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
The name alone is laughable. A non prosecution agreement basically
means you're fine, we're you're you're free. We're gonna leave
you alone.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
For a terrible, terrible comparison, imagine if you are part
of a club where you recreationally go out and hop
in a car and try to run over children, and
then when you get caught, they say, Okay, well, you
know sometimes people drive on the sidewalk, and we're not

(12:25):
gonna We're not gonna identify you, We're not gonna identify
your buddies who are in the car. Yeah, we'll just
let him keep driving.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
And we're not even going to reach out to the
parents of the children that you ran over.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Exactly exactly. But there's a wrinkle here already, because when
after after Acosta agrees to this, he becomes a higher
up in the current presidential administration, and later when he
is faced with this huge WTF moment, right, he says

(12:55):
that he was more or less forced to offer a
lenient please deal, which is a very diplomatic way to
put that. He was told by someone that Epstein quote
belonged to intelligence was quote above his pay grade and
that he should leave it alone.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
WHOA, but Acosta took a die for this eventually, didn't
he like he got he got some come up and
for his part in all of this.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
That's right, that's right, Nold, Because he was the Labor
secretary under the Trump administration, and in July he announced
that his resignation that he was going to walk away
from it. I don't know if that's the sort of
thing you can walk away from. But here's the rest
of the way this works out, speaking that work release stuff.

(13:44):
On June thirty, two thousand and eight, he pled guilty
to a state charge. One of two of the way
they phrased it is procuring for prostitution a girl below
age eighteen, for which he sentenced eighteen months in prison.
Most sex offenders in Florida are sent to state prison.
Epstein instead was housed in a private wing of the

(14:06):
Palm Beach County Stockade, and after three and a half months,
he was allowed to leave the jail on work release
for twelve hours day, six days a week. Also, just
think about how they phrase that sentencing. They're calling these
victims sex workers, you know what I mean? They're assigning
agency to children.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
It makes me really sad.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
No, the whole thing is I mean, I think this
is one of the I thought when we did that episode,
it was one of the most disturbing things we had discussed,
because on the one hand, you don't want to you
can look at a guy like Epstein who represents this
unattainable level of opulence and privilege, right, and you can
view it through the lens of man. What if every rich,

(14:51):
powerful man is a secret sex predator?

Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well, it makes you It made me think of the
next guy.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
No, yeah, for sure. I mean it's just like, you know,
given complete agency to do what thou wilt'st are these
men going to exercise their every you know, debauched kind
of impulse? Right?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Is it going to be a real like Marquis de
Saude kind of story where people just push a limit
to see whether it exists?

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I think I'm The point I'm getting at, though, is no,
it's that's not the case. Likely true. It's easy to
look at a monster like this and what he represents
and apply that across the board to like all rich
and powerful men, especially in the me two times that
we're living in where so many of these folks are
finally having to answer for what they've done. But no,

(15:45):
I think there are rich and powerful men that are not,
you know, child sex predators.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, I'm sure there are quite a few people who are.
Like their idea of something you know, wrong and taboo
is like sneaking a milkshake when it's not cheat day
on their diet, right, and their personal trainer is going
to be really mad. But people are just people, right,

(16:11):
no matter how deified or vilified they are. This guy
is a monster, and he had the means to pursue
his goals. He also paid the Sheriff's office one hundred
and twenty eight grand from a nonprofit to pay for
the cost of his prison circumstances or his stockade circumstances.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Like extra amenities and things or what.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, he had access to attorney room where there was
a TV installed for him. You know, they dedicated that
wing of the county stockade to him. His office was monitored,
The office of the foundation he set up in Dissults
was monitored by what we're called permit deputies, and he
directly paid for their overtime. These guys were required to

(16:54):
wear suits, not uniforms, and they checked in welcomed guests
at the front desk. For a time. He is essentially
a free man until there's renewed scrutiny into the case
and he's ultimately arrested in New Jersey on sex trafficking
charges on July sixth, twenty nineteen. Was justice around the corner, right.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
So leading up to that, I mean, this whole bougie
jail situation, I think he said, been lasted around eighteen
months and then it was just back to business as usual,
you know, making piles of cash and presumably even bringing
in more victims you know, into this sex ring quite possibly.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
And again it goes down to the means, if somebody
does not have this social or financial clout, then they're
not going to, you know, have a private island, They're
not going to have a Lolita Express. They're certainly not
going to get a non prosecution agreement. This guy seems
set to get away until that, until he is re

(17:59):
arrested on July sixth, and he is he is a
high value target for at least factions of the government, uh,
the ones who are against child abuse. I did I
was I thought that was a united front, but that
appears to not entirely be the case.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
That's a that's one way to phrase it. Ben Right,
this herd who are are not against it?

Speaker 3 (18:23):
What specifically led to the quote unquote renewed interests because
what I was so surprised about was that everything we
talked about in that first episode, it was all the
same stuff that came back around. Right, There wasn't anything new,
like what that I'm aware of. Maybe correct me if
I'm wrong, but like, what was it that that, you
know that kind of poked the bear and got things
started again?

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Julie Brown and the Miami Herald in twenty eighteen. That's
exactly what it was. And what's what's strange is that
when we were talking about this, it may have been
just the three of us off air. We based on
Jimmy's we were all pretty certain that this guy would
never make it to trial. Yeah, you know, there's too

(19:07):
much dirt, there's too much murkiness, And in fact, there
was what appeared to be a possible suicide attempt perpetrated
on July twenty third of this year.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, he was found unconscious, I believe, on the floor
of his cell with bruising around his neck.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Yeah, and there were questions about whether or not it
was a self inflicted injury on his neck, or if
maybe his cellmate had done it. Lots and lots of questions.
But it put him on suicide watch, and it made him,
i mean kind of obviously somebody who's done all of

(19:44):
these things and then made the connections within the high
levels of society that you would want to watch this
guy closely. So that occurred on July twenty third. That's
I mean July sixth to July twenty third. That's not
a lot of time from that amount time he was arrested,
put into jail, then attempted suicide at least allegedly. Then

(20:06):
this weekend, at six thirty am on August tenth, twenty nineteen,
Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his cell at the
Metropolitan Correctional Center it's also known as the MCC, the
one that's in New York City. That's a very if
we're talking about this facility. It is locked down to

(20:27):
the extreme and he was found dead there, apparently from suicide.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
So what happened we'll explore this after a word from
our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. Strap in friends
and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realists, we are heading down a
deep rabbit hole. It should be no surprise that many people,

(20:57):
including the FBI and the Department of Justice, are calling
for investigations into Epstein's demise. At this point, an autopsy
has been conducted, more than one actually, but not yet
released to the public. There are a lot of facts
that are going to come to light in the coming days,
and this therefore will be an imperfect update. So we

(21:19):
are attempting to We're attempting to gather what we know
now with the understanding that there will most definitely be
new things unfolding. There isn't just one conspiracy theory in
play here. There are many. For example, you know, if
we look at the broad categories of it, there is

(21:40):
number one the idea that Jeffrey Epstein did not take
his own life. Even mainstream print publications and mass media
news networks are referring to it as an apparent suicide.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
Yeah, and there's something to be said here. If we
think back to that New York Times article to up
ed at the beginning, it is not inconceivable that somebody
that he was connected to would want him dead rather
than be able to speak, especially in a trial, especially
when there's discovery that's going to occur, right for evidence

(22:16):
discovery basically, and depending on what they find in his
home and all of these things, you can imagine that
somebody he worked with, and when I say worked with,
I mean procured a children for or maybe just young
women for.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
So not in a hedge fund managing capacity exactly.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Let's talk a little bit about some of those documents
that were unsealed right before he supposedly took his own life,
further implicating many more high level potential sex offenders that
he may have helped connect with underage women.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, allegations right from Virginia. Robert's last name gi U
F fre You've free. We do have to say that
at this point these are these are allegations, but they
do exist in a legal sense. The documents differ from
some earlier uh some earlier information because they named some

(23:14):
new people. They named New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, former
US Senator George Mitchell, they name members of the royal family,
Prince Andrew.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
And it certainly feeds into this narrative that there was
some foul play at work here because I believe you know,
he said he was taken off suicide watch. Yeah, but
he did have guards who are supposed to look check
in on him. And new reports show that these guards
actually falsified reports that they checked in on him when

(23:47):
they in fact did not for the entire day. Uh
and he was dead for several hours before he was found.
You know, that's pretty fishy. But we don't even have
to get into the speculative territory. There's enough real juicy
information here on its own. Back to the idea of
folks who flew on that plane, the Lolita Express, we

(24:11):
know from flight documents that both Bill Clinton and Donald
Trump flew on that plane, in addition to the philosopher
Stephen Pinker. Just some very odd associates of this man.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
And then, you know, we have to also think about
the level of access very wealthy or powerful people will have.
Because someone met that guy at a party doesn't mean
they were part of his circle, you know what I mean,
part of his crimes. They may have just donated to
the same nonprofit or something like that. However, we do

(24:46):
see the rise of a lot of very disturbing and
valid questions such as his cellmate, which was transferred out
of the cell the like the day of the death
or very shortly beforehand. And we also see, you know,
the suicide Watch is a big question for everybody. Suicide
Watch is supposed to require twenty four to seven monitoring,

(25:09):
also active physical check ins, psychicals, things like that, and
those were not happening at the time of his death.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
And there are questions about even if his own attorneys
had asked to take him off of suicide Watch and
stop all the surveillance from happening on him.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
So let's go back to the idea that he did
not take his own life but was murdered. The idea
that there was homicide somebody wanted to prevent news coming out,
somebody with the means to exert this sort of influence.
And it's interesting because in right wing circles, right wing

(25:47):
US political circles, the theory that we'll see thrown around
the most is that the Clinton family had Epstein murdered.
The idea goes back to the belief that you know,
you've seen the hashtag Clinton body count or something. The
idea goes back to the concept that the Clinton family

(26:08):
has murdered multiple people you'll hear seth Rich shout it
out on that. Maybe shout it out stuff the right word,
But that's just one of many culprits. You know, they'll
say Massad did it, the Oka Royals did it.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
And the Clinton body count thing. I mean, we did
an episode on that when we did you know, during
the election, we did Clinton conspiracies and Trump conspiracies, and
that stuff's pretty baseless. I mean, we couldn't find much
evidence to sink your teeth into that that actually took place,
that the Clinton's actually had people killed.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
I agree, yes, there's no solid evidence. Obviously they wouldn't
be walking around if there was any solid evidence that
the Clintons had been murdering anyone together or separately. There
there are a lot of somewhat peculiar instances of people
either going missing or dyings, which is why some of

(27:04):
this continues to proliferate this idea. And we even have
Donald Trump tweeting about the Clinton body count in reference
to that's Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
He also has another quote pertaining to Epstein from before
this went down, where he's essentially saying, yeah, Jeffrey is
a good friend of mine, and he likes them young
wink wink, nudge, nudge, And.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
It's so crazy to me that Trump would perpetuate I
don't know, maybe it's like a smoke screen since he's
potentially implicated too, because both of them weren't you know,
were on the plane. But yeah, we retweeted this post
from this guy, Terrence K. Williams, who is confirmed on Twitter.
I think he's like kind of a conspiracy theorist type dude.
But it says died of suicide on twenty four to

(27:48):
seven suicide watch. Yeah, right, how does that happen? Hashtag
Jeffrey Epstein had information on Bill Clinton and now he's dead.
I see hashtag Trump body count trending. But we know
who did this RT. If you're not surprised, I'm sorry,
say what you will about Trump. Again, we're trying to
get too political on the show. But what an irresponsible

(28:09):
thing to do.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Well, he's he's also connected to this story, right, Well,
how odd is.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
That he did kick Epstein out of Maura Lago at
some point?

Speaker 4 (28:20):
It's true?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Also, yeah, it's I think there's a very valid argument
to be made that maybe one should also be concerned
about the cost the possible co conspirators and their activities
or the victims. There are many of them. Oh yeah,
and it's it's strange because this is only the beginning.

(28:41):
There's also this idea that's not quite homicide, that Epstein
was allowed to take his own life, right, that someone
may maybe using attorney client privilege, someone got a message
to him and said something about his family, something like that,
and then the guards are paid to look away or
or you know, a break happens at a certain time

(29:03):
at the same time watches in. Yeah, the cellmates, the
cellmates skdaddled, and then you know, maybe just the implements
required or the time required just happens and he's expecting it.
But this is this is something I wanted to ask
you guys about. This is weird. If it is true

(29:24):
that instead of a hedge fund manager, this man was
essentially a concierge of child abuse and procuring children for
these older mental abuse. If that's true, would he not
have some sort of dead hand or kill switch system
that seems to be like the only insurance that would work.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
This is the idea of some sort of dossier that
would be deployed to the authorities in the event of
his untimely death exactly.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
I think we talked about this last time. He essentially
would have the most potent and perfect blackmail like ready
for all of these powerful people.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Because part of the reason that he was able to
wiggle out of, you know, the clutches of the law
in the first place, was because of like his brutally
aggressive legal team, you know, I mean, he did not
pull any punches. He was protecting himself to the hilt.
So yeah, it's a little odd that that, But who knows,
Maybe it has been deployed and we just haven't heard

(30:25):
about it yet. But I guess the point being what
you're saying, I think is that it wouldn't make sense
for them to bump him off if if he had
something like.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
That, unless it was taken care of, unless they needed
the time between getting him getting arrested and the authorities
going through all this stuff, maybe they discovered what they
were looking for.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
He also had lead time in almost every well in
several cases where his property was searched. Sure, that's why
Palm Beach they didn't find hard drives, they didn't find
you know, CDs with video footage.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Did they find? Though, Ben, they're a fan of this,
A fan of this, A fan. It's a very weird
flex The things they found.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Oh yes, yes, okay. So in Palm Beach they found
all the wires in which one would you know which
that you'd use to hook up recording apparatus and video.
And then in Manhattan in a safe they found a
they found a fake passport. Now, passport fraud works differently.
Apparently if you are a millionaire or possibly a billionaire,

(31:32):
we would go to jail for that.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
He was able to kind of explain it away though,
to the authorities. Right.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
His lawyer argued that this passport came from a friend
due to concerns for Epstein's physical safety where he was
when he was traveling in places where there was, you know,
a lot of anti Semitism. So he had an Austrian passport,
his picture, a different name, and it listed his residency

(31:58):
as Saudi Arabia. We would be under the jail. He
also had he also had several thousand in cash, I
can't remember, forty grand or something like that. Yeah, and
then he's a kicker. He had a bag of forty
eight loose diamonds, loose diamonds, loose diamonds, which is conflict
territory currents.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Absolutely, And we also haven't talked about the drone footage
of his island. Yeah, private island in the Virgin Islands. Yeah,
because he's an island owning territory. He is at bond
villain level wealth.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah. And there's a temple on the island, or what
appears to be a temple.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Let's go ahead and call it a sex temple.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yeah, you know, that's what it feels like.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
It's very, very strange. That island is probably cleaned out, sanitized,
or under investigation by the authorities now, but I believe
that law enforcement. You can see on the drone footage
they've started blacking out windows and stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I can't remember if we talked about this last time
or not, but I just find this fascinating and very strange.
On that island, there are photographs of an event. He
was a big fan of hanging out with scientists and physicists.
One of his closest aides referred to him as having
the mind of a physicist, and there was he would
do these scientific conferences on that very island where a

(33:17):
lot of this these alleged you know, abuses were said
to have taken place, and it included people like Stephen Hawking,
Nobel Laureates, you know, David Gross, Frank Vilcek, physicists Jim Peebles,
Alan Gooth, Kip Thorne, Lisa Randall. Again, he's obviously giving
money to their causes. It makes sense for them to schmooze.

(33:41):
This was before yeah, that the original allegations came out,
So not throwing any of them into the bus. But
one of these scientists who absolutely is standing accused of
having forced sex with an underage girl is MIT professor
Marvin Minsky, who is a close friend of Epstein and
it was a very important figure in the development of

(34:02):
artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Right. Minsky died in twenty sixteen. He was known associate
of Epstein, and in that twenty sixteen deposition, which is
where the recent unsealed documents come from, she names him
as one of the many prominent scientists with ties to him,
as she also names Dershowitz and Alan. Dershowitz has the strangest,

(34:28):
most bizarre sort of denials or justifications. He's saying things like, oh, yeah,
I got a massage, but don't worry, it was from
an old, unattractive person. You know what I mean, And
there were a lot of kids around, but nothing weird happened.
It's difficult to parse this, but just for a snapshot

(34:48):
of how much speculation is proliferating right now, do you
want to mention a third category of theory that I
ran into, which is that Jeffrey Epstein's somehow committed pseudo
side the fancy word for faking one's own death and
escaped by a long shot. This is the least plausible idea,

(35:10):
but this is just the beginning. Will pause for a
word from our sponsor and then maybe dig into more
of the speculation, the footage, the groups involved, the timeline
of the death. We have returned. The reality of the

(35:35):
situation as it stands now means that we are not
working with all of the information and it will continue
to come out. But there are things that we have
to hit upon here. You know, one very creepy, disturbing
quote was that acoustic quote from earlier that somebody belongs

(35:55):
to intelligence.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
What does that even mean? What is that implying?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
It's the implication that they are an asset or they
are contracting out. So so, for instance, like the in
the intelligence community for just making up an example, Let's
say that you are you are trying to conduct an
operation in a country where that's unfriendly to your intelligence agency,

(36:21):
and you need to have plausible deniability, So you're not
actually doing stuff. You know, you're not actually in the
streets launching a coup and overthrowing the government. However, you
have some connections with a local student union and they
are protesting for democracy or better access to lithium or whatever,
and that's that's the kind of thing. So somebody can

(36:43):
work with an intelligence outfit and not themselves be a
member of the FBI or the CIA or whatever. So
the implication there is that if we're going absolutely crazy,
there's no hard proof of this yet, the implication there
is that he was practicing honeypot techniques or honey traps

(37:05):
if you want to call him that.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Sort of like what the Steele dossier that Trump, that
you know, supposedly existed on Trump would have been in
terms of the Russian government setting honeypot traps for foreign
dignitaries and then using uh, you know, compromand on them
to blackmail them.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, comprom at with a K, which is such a
crazy great word, but the.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
It's so odd that it seems so easy to find
the weird inclinations of you know, powerful people.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
And perhaps it's a measure of gradients, you know, I
I if we're being dystopian, what do you think about
the possibility of this scenario. What if after a certain
amount of success, like real genuine merit, right, what if
you reach some social or financial threshold of influence and

(37:55):
power where to join the inner circle, you are required
to do certain things right, like you are required perhaps
and this is very I have no proof of this.
I'm just asking this a thought experiment. Like let's say
you're you're up for partnership or you're going to join

(38:16):
this you know, international bank whatever, and they say, okay,
Well to get into the inner circle, something we all
have to do, you know what I mean? Like black mirror.
Example would be having sexual congress with an animal, right,
this is it something like this.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
And it has to be filmed and people who are
in charge get to keep that just in case you
start doing something they don't like.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Right, and intelligence communities have done stuff like this before,
this extortion, this blackmail. It changes with the age, the
time and place, like in countries where homosexuality was outlawed
intelligence communities would collect that dirt on people and say,
you know, vote this way or do this thing if

(39:02):
you don't want your secret revealed. The difference here being
that homosexuality is very much not a crime, and it's
very much not a choice people make. It's who they are,
and they should have the right to live their lives.
And this one was using child abuse if that's the case.
If that's the case, then the argument becomes that Epstein

(39:24):
had a backer, a state actor of some sort or
a faction within a state actor that was enabling his
access and reaping the rewards. But back to your question, Matt,
the thing that really, the thing that really horrifies me
is the idea that at some point the people who

(39:49):
were if this were some kind of intelligence operation, the
people who are doing this to children. Again, if it's
all true, they agreed to do it, you know what
I mean, they consented at least. I don't know what
brings a person to that point.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's all conspiratorial. It
has a it feels, at least in my gut, like
there was something like this occurring. I cannot prove it
that the United States or some intelligence group was using
him directly to do this thing as a tool, as

(40:28):
like you were saying, Ben as somebody who can go
into a country, not as a state actor, not as
an official agent or something like that, but has the
wealth and influence to make things happen. And he also
has this ability to get you what you want for
your messed up fantasies, and you will use that against

(40:49):
you simultaneously.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Absolutely, and speaking of getting you what you want, this
is really interesting. We talked about some co conspirators and
you know, the question is like, what's next. Okay, so
we've got is clearly out of the picture. Any prosecution
against him is kind of moot, but it's certainly not
moot as far as the victims are concerned and as
far as the fallout for some of these co conspirators,

(41:11):
one of whom is a British socialite and longtime pal
of Epstein's by the name of Gieslon Maxwell, who's fifty
seven years old, and ever since the kind of renewed
interest in this case, has apparently been hiding out in
a mansion in Manchester by the Sea, Massachusetts, an oceanfront

(41:32):
property owned by her CEO Tech CEO boyfriend Scott Borgerson,
who kind of does all the running around and walking
over dog and getting groceries, and she very rarely leaves
the property. She was named in that very same deposition
that we've been quoting from, and fought tooth and nail
to keep those pages, those two thousand pages from that

(41:56):
defamation lawsuit against her by Virginia Goofrey, who you know,
the one who was deposed and gave all this information
with these new individuals that were connected, did not want
that unsealed, and is very clearly someone that had something
to do with this very very real crime. I think
no one's questioning that this happened, that this man was

(42:16):
responsible for these crimes. I know he wasn't tried, but
I just don't I feel like he's being referred to
as a pedophile, I mean unequivocally. Maybe that's not fair.
Maybe that's trying him in the court of public opinion,
because he definitely.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
But he already got tried in the courts, and they
just kind of push it away.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
But that's so confusing to me, Like there wasn't even
a verdict rendered.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Right in the original one. Yeah, he was found guilty
on that one count, which one on the account of
soliciting a minor for prostitution. Because, like we said earlier, though,
even the way that is framed really really is incredibly
disrespectful to the victims. Absolutely, it's not like they consented

(42:59):
at all, you know. So it also goes you know, Dershowitz.
Alan Dershowitz was scheduled to do a mock trial in
which he would defend Biblical child traffickers. This is true.
What yeah, at a place called Temple Emmanuel Striker Center
in New York. It was originally going to happen in November,

(43:20):
it got canceled because of this sort of stuff. He
would be acting as defense in the People versus Joseph's brothers.
This is an annual mock trial hosted by the Center
based on stories from the Torah and The idea here
was that they would argue in front of a US
District court judge a person named Ronnie Abrams, and Abrams

(43:44):
would decide whether the brothers of Joseph, who appear in
Genesis in the Torah and Bible, should be held guilty
for selling young Joseph as a slave some.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Kind of sick like legal thought experiment. So strange. Well,
there is some good news ish, I guess. Senator Ben Sass,
a Republican from Nebraska, just this week urged William Barr,
the Attorney General, who himself was dubious of the apparent suicide,

(44:14):
said that we need to launch an investigation. Whether or
not that's just optics, it's hard to say, you know,
but Sas is calling to quote unquote rip up that
non prosecution deal from two thousand and eight and hold
his co conspirators accountable.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Wow, that's real.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
They were just given the pass right like they weren't.
Even there's no black mark on their record as far
as the law.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Is concerned, you know, no legal ramification.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Right, and they're alive and well, living in million dollar
palatial estates, you know, by the sea exactly.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
And we have to wonder, Look, what do you think
you're the most skeptical person has ever set foot upon
this crazy experien of ours called Earth, or whether you
think the things that the mainstream considers the most out
there are the most true. The fact remains, something very

(45:12):
very rotten is present. Something happened and is happening, right,
And we felt obligated to make this update, you know,
but we will probably have to keep looking into this
because stories like this, as strange as it sounds, they

(45:32):
can disappear well.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
And at the very least, this very strange handling of
a very serious crime in the original case is kind
of being treated like not that big a deal, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Yeah, No, I know exactly what I mean. Well, it
makes me want to go back to that New York
Times article for just one more minute, you guys. To
the end. I'm going to read a quote from this
article again. This makes so much much sense to me. Okay,
So imagine right now, if we didn't know anything about
Jeffrey Epstein. We just knew what was on the surface

(46:08):
about him. He's some billionaire hedge fund manager guy that
manages a bunch of rich people's money. That's all we
know about him. Right then imagine that Let's say we're
sitting in a hotel bar or something. Somebody walks up
to us and here's here's the quote. Imagine being told
all we know about him that he wasn't just a billionaire,

(46:31):
but a man mysteriously made and mysteriously protected who ran
a pedophile island with a temple to an unknown god
and plotted his own boys from Brazil endgame in playing
sight of his Harvard DC House of windsor Pals. It's
it would be insane, you would not believe that for
a second, that idea of a conspiracy theory feeling so

(46:54):
out there, it's perfectly represented there. But it's but it true.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Oh no. But we've talked on the show multiple times
about how the term conspiracy theory itself is so reductive
and it's it's literally, there's a word for it, ben
you might you might remember just of like when you're
trying it's that cognitive dissonance maybe, or like when thought
terminating cliche exactly, thank you. Yeah, for sure. This is
this idea that by calling something that you're dismissing its

(47:22):
veracity on all levels, and you're you're like basically belittling
the person that's trying to discuss this with you to
crackpot territory. And that's a really important part to us
about this show, is that we do try to look
at all sides and we talk about these things for
a reason because even if you know things are largely false,

(47:42):
it's an interesting part of the human condition to like
look for answers and try to, even if it's in
kind of a weird, reverse engineered way. But this is
a perfect example of a thing that is absolutely provable
on so many levels and absolutely represents things that are
happening in the shadow all the time.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I would say, I suggest that we since we can't
answer all the questions yet and maybe hopefully we'll be
able to one day, I suggest we end on one
last question. If there was compromat, if there was video
or photographic footage or evidence of these crimes occurring, like physically,

(48:26):
we could see, you know, these named co conspirators and
others engaging in these crimes. Who has the footage? That
would be one of the most explosive and powerful things
to possess. We know that somehow Epstein got hipped to
a search in advance at least once. So where did

(48:46):
it go? Did you destroy it? Is it somewhere else?

Speaker 4 (48:49):
I bet it's backed up in multiple countries, in multiple banks.
I bet you that's where it is. That's just complete speculation, maybe,
but I can imagine him traveling around and put it
in like a deposit.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Box, building redundancy. Yeah, let's call this breaking news. So
we recorded the episode on Epstein yesterday, which you just heard,

(49:23):
and then it stayed with us because we said it
would be an imperfect update. And I owe Matt and
Noel an apology because I started texting guys like for
something in the morning as more news broke. And so
now we've gotten together, I think we've all had about

(49:44):
a collective hour four hours of sleep.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
Yeah, yeah, Ben is not joking. It really was four
in the morning, and the stuff that he was sending
us was so explosive we realized we absolutely had to
add it to this episode.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Yeah, the three of us as soon as we woke
up would have probably received tons of notifications about this stuff,
and we didn't want this episode to come out without it.
Because you see Jeffrey Epstein's bodyguard in Palm Springs. A
guy named Igor Zenowev.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
A former UFC fighter, former.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
UFC fighter, mysterious Russian MMA fighter, just became the subject
of a huge amount of scrutiny because there is a
text interview with him that was released and is frankly
chilling and damning. And Matt, you went through and found

(50:41):
excerpts of this thing.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
I did just for a little more context. It's a
phone call that happened between this journalist and Igor, and
it's in reference to or an update to a previous
phone call that they had in twenty fifteen, and Igor like,
apparently it took forever to try and track him down.
Nobody's been able to get a hold of this guy.
But because this journalist had an inn already through speaking

(51:06):
to him in twenty fifteen, I guess Igor picked up
the phone call.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
And that journalist is M. L. Nostelle. Who you know,
if that name pops up as a suicide, I would
also not believe it.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Well, here's why. Let's get into some of the quotations here. So,
as we said, this is in reference to a previous conversation.
Now in this version, the twenty nineteen conversation, the journalist
one more time was the name that is M. L.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Nestelle in eest El.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
Okay, So Nostelle is noticing that Egor is being extremely
evasive in the previous things that he had stated in
twenty fifteen. So I'm gonna let's read a couple of
things here. So this is Nostelle, the journalist in our
conversation in twenty fifteen, you described his relationship with teenage girlfriends, quote.
So many times I tried to stop him. I tried

(51:59):
to tell him my opinion about that. He don't listen
to me. That's the reason why I'm not working for
him no more. I make him do that to let
me go. Do you remember saying that?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
And so before we get to his response, we want
to be clear that because this is a phone call,
the journalists made the decision not to try to correct
any grammar.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
No paraphrasing, no paraphrasing.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
This is exactly the physical record of what Igor said.
So his response in the second interview is, it's not
the teenage girls. I never see the teenage girls. I
tell you I never see teenage girls plenty of times
when I work for him, I never see anything on
proper or teenage girls around him. That's what I say.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
And again that quote from earlier from the journalist is
exactly what was stated the last time they spoke, and
he's now denying it.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Why don't we go on just a little bit, Okay,
don't feel the tension here.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
So the journalist says, so, now you say you only
saw him with women older than eighteen twenty all.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
What I say, he has always been with girlfriends and
there was a couple girls. I don't remember their names.
She was twenty five and worked for him as assistant,
maybe twenty five or twenty three whatever. I don't know
the age.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Okay, but you definitely told me that last time we talked.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
No, no, it's not that he's working like work release
on other stuff. And I just tell him, you know,
he would order his girlfriends around, and I told him,
calm down, it's not just teenage girls. I never see
teenage girls in my life at his house. That's what
it is. That's a misunderstanding completely. And then he goes

(53:36):
on and it's true. I think this is really important.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Without hearing the intonation of the conversation, we can maybe
find ourselves reading some tea leaves.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
So basically, he's backpedaling on the age, like he unequivocally
in the first comment said I tried to stop him
with the teenage girls. It was weird. And then god,
the amount of times he says tea age girls in
the second one, the rebuttal or, I guess that's where
he kind of pulls back. It sounds so much like
he's got something to hide or as a talking point.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
Yeah, yea so we have to remember he was functioning
as bodyguard and drivers sometimes and combat trainer in combat
trainer in light combat at least according at least according
to Egor. But he lived on in a guesthouse on
a property of Epstein for a long time. He would
drive Epstein to locations where he would stay in the car.

(54:30):
Epstein would leave for a couple hours and come back.
Now most of this is during the time that Epstein
was in jail, but he was getting those twelve hour
releases where he would go and have these meetings and
Igor would just shuttle him around.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
So I want to go to a different part of
this too. So several times in this interview the journalist
is literally quoting verbatim back to Igor. And there's this
one part that really stands out, and it's an old
quote that he says, all right, the journalist is saying,

(55:05):
I understand this is sensitive. Igoor saying it's not sensitive,
it's just kind of a little uncorrect. And then the
journalist goes in hard and says, it's exactly what you said.
I can send it to you. Here's something else. Who
said it could be tricky, you know, normally he meaning Epstein,
always checks his newspapers. Nothing about me, I say, no,

(55:26):
they forget about me. And what I mentioned Epstein was
being exposed for messing with teenage girls. You said, I'm
not surprised at all. I'm just surprised how low he
can be outside the real world. Someday is going to
call him and it will be real jail. He has
so much money he can pay it off me personally.
If I caught him with my daughter or something like that,

(55:47):
I'm not going to go to police. I do something
else much worse. That guy could try to assume me
and manipulate the situation with his money. That's the American way.
I know. He screwed up a lot of fashion girls. Also,
that's a different story.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Why would he be so candid like that with a reporter.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I guess he thought it was untouchable, you know, yea,
like nothing would come of it because nothing had.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
But that changed.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
No, I mean, would I would think he would consider,
you know, especially what he's saying about how powerful and
rich Epstein is, how he's untouchable. Why would he go
out on a limb like that about his employer and
put himself in the line of fire.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Like well, he was he was an employee, right, you
can only speculate what Epstein might have on him or
something like that, But who knows that kind of thing.
In this case, it's just a guy talking about his
employer who was in a lot of legal trouble. That's
what I'm imagining in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
But I see the motivation too, Like it doesn't sound
like good housekeeping or good employee employer hygiene. But we
have to remember, legally speaking, we don't. This guy doesn't
have attorney client privilege or anything. I'm sure there might
be some sort of NDA, you know, or some equivalent.

(57:01):
But it gets really it gets really spooky. And you
can read the entirety of the phone call, at least
for now, in the transcript form on ny mag dot com.
But let's look at another segment of this, because this
does escalate. Right now, we just have a guy who
sounds like he's trying to walk back some smack he
was talking in twenty fifteen. Yeah, but this next part

(57:24):
is very different.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Yeah, it's just before we get it's really odd to
me that he would walk it back after he's dead,
Like it seems like he would have less to lose
letting his original statements ride.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
And then I mean, Epstein wasn't the dangerous one exactly.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
There's something else going on here, So he goes, I'm
not afraid beyond that. Just he is dead. I don't
want anything to be uncorrect. There's too much in here.
You know already he's dead, and just like freaking people,
just leave him alone. Then the journalist asks, hold on,
when did you find out he.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Died Saturday or Sunday or whenever?

Speaker 3 (57:58):
What did you think when you found that out?

Speaker 1 (58:01):
What did I think?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Are you sure you want to hear what I'm going
to think? Yes, somebody helped him to do that.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
You think somebody helped him kill himself? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Okay, why listen? You know that's going a little too deep.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
I mean, I'm just trying to understand that maybe you'd
be happy he was dead, or you would be upset.
I don't know, are you even feeling anything.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I'm not sad. I mean, I didn't have anything against him,
like a bad thing. You know, I don't care about
his life completely. I don't give let's say, like crap
about how he died, how he live, or how he's managed, how.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
He's managed jeez.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
How many years did you live in his house?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Five or six years in Palm Beach.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
That's a long time. Yeah, you don't have any emotion
after learning he died. No, did you think it would
happen to him?

Speaker 1 (58:49):
It's unexpectable.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Well, it's like, well, I realize others tried to talk
to you. Did he ever offer money? Did he anybody
ever try to silence you?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
No?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I get that, but you and I have a history
at this point. One thing he told me, for instance, Okay,
one thing you told me is he got a heads
up to when the authorities were going to come to
his house the night before.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Listen, what you say is between you and me.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
You told me he would get phone calls the night
before at eight o'clock the police are going to come.
He would get a heads up from the local police.
You got some silence, some serious silence here. You told
me that. Igor. You want me to read the quote
back to you.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Well, you can read whatever you want right now, don't
just you can put yourself in big trouble.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
WHOA, Yeah, that's what he said. You can put yourself
into a threat to me. Well, I don't know if
it's a threat from him. I mean it sounds like
he's a little scared.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
More of a warning. Yeah, it goes on because the journalist,
this journalist is top nuts.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Yeah. Here he is reading the quote you said he
always do something wrong. There was some nights in question.
There was at home arrest and police before they come
to the house, they call him and tell him they
coming in at eight o'clock in the morning. It's all corruption,
you know, it's all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Both listen, don't put yourself in trouble seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Okay. Pause.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
So that is a huge implication there, or a huge accusation,
is a huge statement saying that the local police. We
talked about this in the episode, how he would get
a heads up and know, like to clean things out
of the house if they were if the authorities were
coming over in the morning. This is what the bodyguard
who lived with him is saying is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, which is not you know, not smoking gunproof, but
is very chilling, circumstantial proof. And then from here on,
Igor attempts to persuade this journalist to drop it, to
let this stuff go. And we left off where he says,
don't put yourself in trouble seriously. But the reporter, just

(01:00:56):
like you know A moorey Eel clamping down continues.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
We talked about this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I understand, we got this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
I'm telling you to give you a chance to remember
because we talked about this stuff. I know it's hard.
I don't know what you mean about put myself in trouble.
Let that go, seriously, let that go. Why is it
so important? Are you worried about the local cops?

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Listen, You're really smart, and I'm not going to offer
that over the phone right now. Okay, you're really smart.
You have no idea? Please, what do you mean by that?
I can't explain you. I can't explain you over the
phone any of this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
You said that last time, and we didn't talk for years.
You can tell the world who this guy was. You
were with him for a long time, you know what
I mean. Silence. I totally understand that you think he
could have had help committing suicide.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
First of all, I have to go right now. I
have another client still training people. Yes, but just be careful.
I am not kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
What's your email so I can send it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Don't do any kind of that stuff. Just don't play it. Seriously.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Can you tell me why I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I ask you one more question.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Have you been talking to anyone in the government, the FBI,
Have they come to you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
There's a long pause here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Great talking to you seriously? Will we talk later?

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Really?

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Bye?

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
All right bye?

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
That's insane. That was four am last night. Where as
we're reading through all of that, it's bonkers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Man, whoa so again not fool proof, no, but chilling,
chilling stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
And especially all the you better watch it, seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Let that go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Let it go.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Man, that's like some movie stuff right there.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
I mean, well, that is a dangerous dude. This is
this is an MMA fighter who was good at his job.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
There's a picture of him too, so he is kind
of in a We don't have a lot of information
on him yet, but we have another quick update. We
found those prison guards that we mentioned, who I think,
as you have mentioned, No, they had been asleep and
falsified records on the night of the death or at

(01:03:17):
the time of the death.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
At the very least, they did not check on him
at all and claim that they did. Was the asleep
thing confirmed?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Apparently, yes, Apparently they were not only sleeping on their
job literally, they were also not the regular guards. They
were temporary guards who had been assigned, And it feels
weird to say, you know, it's my first few days
of work some guy, I probably don't know that well,
but I'm comfortable enough for both of us to snuggle

(01:03:44):
up and take a snooze.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
I mean, maybe people have just a very different sense
of boundaries.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Especially with what's at stake.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
And we did talk about a little bit about how
within the United States system of prisons there is a
lot of being overworked as employees.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Sure, so like taking an app.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
I don't know, it's not completely out of out of
bounds of reason, but at the same time, for two
at the same time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
And right when they temporarily brought on on the day
of this event.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it sure seems like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
There was some manipulation going on. Maybe they were brought
in because they were in the know, you know, like
they weren't gonna ask questions.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
I don't know who knows, but so that certainly continues
to make the mind real.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
And then we got the autopsy results.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Back, well we got part of it, yes, partial, partial,
And this is this is the other thing we found
in the wee hours of the morning A report from
The Washington Post cited two people familiar with the findings
of one of the autopsies, and it shows that Jeffrey
Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, including what's

(01:04:54):
called his hyoid bone. That's sort of a like a
picture of horseshoe and if you're a dou it's located
near your Adam's apple. And the Post says, quote, such
breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if
they are older, according to forensic experts and studies on
the subject, but they are more common in victims of

(01:05:15):
homicide by strangulation.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
WHOA yeah, And let's not forget that other attempt where
he had bruising around his neck. And I don't know
that we mentioned this in the in the main part
of the episode, but there were shrieks heard coming from
his cell. You know, you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
I don't even know that. You don't.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
You don't shriek when you're hanging yourself, that when you're
being strangled or when you're being attacked. And I had
a really great conversation with Jack O'Brien. We're actually just FYI,
but people behind the we're in Orlando for this podcast.
Convention podcast movement, and I have been lucky enough to
get to hang with some of the West Coast folks
from from our network, and Jack, who does the Daily
Zeit guys, It's a fantastic show, was really interested in this,

(01:05:55):
and we all spoke to him about it briefly, but
he made the point of this is a guy who
has demonstrated zero remorse, who has been able to wiggle
his way out of every situation that he's been in
because of his sheer wealth and opulence and connections.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Right, I would say even more so the connections.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Absolutely all of that combined. This is not a man
who kills himself out of shame. This is a man
who waits it out and sees what's gonna happen and
sees what kind of out he can get. You know,
it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he was already shamed.
If the shame was gonna do it for him, why
didn't he do it? Why didn't he kill himself before?

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Well?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Yeah, he also doesn't have a big family that we
know of, right, and children that we know of, because
the typical mob or criminal tactic would be too coerced
suicide by threatening ones loved ones right, but that leverage
doesn't seem to exist. I was on the Daily Zeite

(01:06:56):
Guys Jack and Miles podcast talking about Epstein a little
bit more, and they made the same point again, but
before this information came out. You know, in this show,
we're very careful to be very clear with all of
our fellow listeners if we're giving out our opinion rather
than facts, and you know, I have to be honest.

(01:07:19):
This is just my opinion, and I definitely don't speak
for everybody, but this is rotten. Something is not right.
This guy did for one or two of these circumstances
to happen. Sure, okay, right, overworked prison guards are not
at their job one hundred percent, right, Or maybe someone

(01:07:40):
with suicidal ideation is misdiagnosed by an overworked psychologist, right
or psychiatrist. But for all these different things that happen
at once at the same time, it's it can't be
a coincidence. I feel like I'm Charlie Day and always
sunny in Philadelphia in the mail room, pointing it stuff
with a bunch of red string here. But I don't

(01:08:03):
think it's off base.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Who is it doesn't even exist?

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
There is no Pepe how many times I know, I
don't know, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Think, I don't remember this. See I don't know who
Pepen is either. No, that's the thing, and that's why
that that op ed that we led the show with,
I think is so interesting because this idea of a
conspiracy theory or a conspiracy theorist is like a thought
terminating cliche. This is this. These are two very real things.
Conspiracies where people collude together, you know, for an end,

(01:08:35):
a common end, and theory is a way of discussing
open mindedly, hopefully in our case, those potential collusions. And
this is just a clear cut case where these theories
that we're putting out there are absolutely plausible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
I wouldn't even call this conspiracy theorized. And at this
point it's much more like investigative true crime.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
Yeah yeah, following the breadcrumbs and putting together in the puzzle.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't
wait to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
It's right, let us know what you think. You can
reach to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on
Facebook X and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy Stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
Show if you want to call us dial one eight
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Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
We are the entities to read every single piece of
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void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
No