April 24, 2024 • 62 mins
Toward the end of 2023, a US judge decreed the public had a right to know the names of multiple people listed in court documents pertaining to the crimes of notorious financier and human trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. This list of his known associates includes tycoons, royalty, celebrities, and more than one president. But what about the allegations that Epstein was supplying victims to sexual abusers -- will any of these other people, if guilty, be brought to justice? Tune in as Ben and Matt explore the Epstein files.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Our colleague Dole is on adventures, but will be returning soon.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission
control decand most importantly, you are you. You are here that
makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Tonight we're just talking about this off air with Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Tonight, we are returning to an unfortunately still unfolding story
that recently rocked America and indeed the world. It's a
story we've been exploring for years at this point, starting
back in twenty nineteen when we asked, who is this
Jeffrey Epstein character? Why does it seem he broke the
law and got away? It's a question that has some
(01:08):
added context now, as we all know, Jeffrey Epstein has
passed away, and this evening we are returning with a
follow up.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It's been a long time in coming, and I think
maybe we start off by telling everybody tuning in now,
please be aware this may not be appropriate for all audiences.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Most definitely not appropriate for all audiences. We covered him
for the first time in January of twenty nineteen, and
then he was He died on August tenth, twenty nineteen,
which is pretty crazy, less than a year away from
his death when we started talking about him again. This
(01:47):
is a weird update because Ben, I don't know about you.
I didn't know how much targeted advertising was going to
play into this episode about Epstein.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, and well, without further ado, let's get into it,
explore that and everything else. Here are the facts. Who
was Epstein? We know this, longtime listeners, you know this.
For much of his career, Jeffrey Epstein officially was a financier,
a former teacher turned money guy. There is nothing inherently
(02:18):
wrong with that until you start looking into the increasingly
bizarre circumstances of his rise to financial power. Right he
was teaching at this uber posh private school called the
Dalton School without a college degree. He did attend college briefly,
he dropped out. And then there's even The more you dig,
(02:38):
the more weird stuff you find. Some of it kind
of tenuous, but a lot of it in culmination, it
makes you think, like were in our past episodes. I
believe we talked a little bit about the Donald Barr connection,
which is its own kind of bag of badgers. Remember that,
the weird sci fi author.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, that was very strange. Yeah, I remember more of
the financial connections that seemed to just come out of nowhere.
Bear Stearns is a company that a lot of people
were talking about a long, long time ago, now in
twenty twenty four, but they were a major investment investment
bank firm. I guess you would call it. Maybe they
(03:19):
are one of these organizations that went down during the
giant financial collapse that occurred in well, the targeted financial
collapse in the investment sector that happened in two thousand
and eight and nine, I guess. But they were a
massive player, and Jeffrey Epstein got in very good with
that whole crowd.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, And that's somewhat separate, but it's distinct from, but
somehow related to his connections with folks like Leslie Wexner.
You're absolutely right. After he left the Dalton School or
was fired, let go, however you want to put it,
in nineteen seventy six. He did snaggage at bear Stearns,
(04:01):
multiple jobs. He worked in various roles in the organization,
and his bosses always noticed that he had a particular
talent for what we would call relationship management in this context,
that means befriending and hobnobbing with VIPs with very wealthy
clients bear Sterns and it's nineteen eighty one when he
(04:24):
leaves bear Stearns and begins his own financial company. He
does several of these. They go through a number of
different names. Check out our past episodes. His firms always
had throughout all the iterations, they always have one thing
in common. They cultivated, or you could even say targeted,
(04:45):
incredibly powerful and influential clients. Again, nothing inherently weird or
wrong about that, because if you have ever worked in investment,
you know that the whales are the folks you seek, right,
you want those big VIP accounts.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Well, and he was aided quite a bit by his
partner in both business and crime, Gillaane Maxwell, who was
a socialite in her own right, but she was a
big player within the social spheres all across the United
States and across the globe. And you know, cultivating these
(05:23):
kinds of clientele. I have no doubt that she played
a large role in that.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And we brought receipts. You can hear them in our
previous series, which was we have a three part episode
or we have a three part series on Epstein leading
up to his untimely demise or his timely demise, depending
on who you ask. Long story short, his career seemed
(05:49):
increasingly less focused on the day to day business of
growing money, because that's what a financial company is. Basically,
it's like a money farmer, and his career seemed more
and more focused on things that we could call blackmail
and things that are crimes, like sexual abuse and human trafficking.
He conspired to do these things. These are true conspiracies.
(06:13):
History would later prove this was also an open secret
in certain circles. You can see any number of photographs, videos,
documentation proving he was linked to some of the most
powerful people in the Western world. Not the same thing
as saying they committed similar crimes, but he definitely was
(06:33):
hanging out with financiers, business tycoons, celebrities, more than one
US president, and it seemed set to continue until I
think two thousand and five, police in Florida got a
report from a local parent that said, hey, this Jeffrey
Epstein guy living in Palm Beach sexually abused our fourteen
(06:58):
year old daughter tracts and the facade began to show.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, and let's get into that in just a
moment then, But we just we have to point out
that the first report of Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell to
the FBI was in nineteen ninety six by Maria Farmer
regarding herself and her sixteen year old sister. Because Maria
Farmer reached out and told them, hey, you know, this
(07:24):
person who's kind of my boss, I guess, and his
friend Gallaine just like sexually abused me and my sister,
my sixteen year old sister. And you know, at least
according to her story, and according to what followed after that,
the FBI kind of put it away and it was
like allegations and nothing else.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And the two thousand and five accusations actually lead to something.
And for a lot of people, I think it's safe
to say at this point, throughout the nineties and even
unto the two thousand and five report, most folks had
not heard of Jeffrey Epstein, not really, It was just
another one of the names you hear bandied about with,
(08:05):
you know, like the group terms of the wealthy, and
most people probably hadn't heard of him, because you know,
most people are not wealthy. But this investigation again, I
like that you pointing out the nineteen nineties stuff that
got buried, because this investigation balloons and people are becoming
increasingly convinced Epstein hadn't abused just one child. A later
(08:28):
federal investigation will find credible allegations of abuse related to
at least thirty six different girls, teens and minors.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, we're thinly twelve years old, fourteen years old, sixteen
years old.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Messed up, unclean stuff. And fast forward to two thousand
and eight. Epstein does get convicted in the state of Florida,
but he strikes a cartoonish sweetheart plea deal he pleads
guilty to. We know there are problematic words here, but
the charges he played guilty to are procuring a child
(09:03):
for prostitution and to soliciting a prostitute. He is sentenced
to thirteen months in custody, but he's also on the
most generous work release program in.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
US history.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Maybe I remember we were all baffled. We didn't believe
it at first. He could essentially, during these thirteen months,
do whatever he wanted. He had an office he went
to every day, he could go meet with clients, and
he still had scats of clients, and he was just
kind of a freeman other than the fact that he
(09:42):
couldn't leave the US borders.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, definitely go back to the twenty nineteen episode, the
original one, just to go into the full detail of
all that stuff. He was definitely a free person at
that time. And just to add a little more context
here on the Galaine Maxwell thing, from the nineties up
until two thousand and eight there or two thousand and five,
I guess she was at least according to Maria Farmer
(10:05):
and others, she would drive around in a limousine or
a you know, a chartered vehicle basically that someone else
is driving around in, and she would stop at businesses,
at parks, at schools, and she would get out of
the vehicle, write down her phone number and hand it
to a teenager, a teenage girl, and say contact me,
(10:26):
basically as the person grooming these people who then end
up at Jeffrey Epstein's one of his palatial estates, usually
at least in this case, the one in New York.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Right, So he's operating, He's got an island that he
operates from, has got a location New York as well
as a location in Palm Beach, Florida. You can learn
more in depth about Gallaine Maxwell in our Gallaiine Maxwell update,
which is also out there and could also use use
a return in twenty twenty four or the fasting.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Is anybody skeptical about the criminal nature of these.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Two Yeah, just in case you have questions, We have
questions too, some of which particularly pertain to Galaane's father,
Robert Maxwell. Whole different bag badgers, possibly related the federal government.
Federal authorities again arrest Jeffrey Epstein on July sixth, twenty nineteen.
(11:27):
This time his charges his trafficking charges are interstate and scope.
He is charged with trafficking minors, specifically for sex in
both Florida and New York. August of the same year,
he dies in prison under circumstances that even the most
zealous of skeptics can only describe as murky. The official
(11:50):
cause suicide by Hanking yep.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And we have a whole episode on that too, by
the way, too, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Check out that one is epstein suicide and the autopsy war.
It's look the suicide conclusion, which was reached by the
medical examiner of the time. It's a conclusion a lot
of people still don't accept today, like the official story
of what happened at JFK. Right, Epstein's own lawyers thought
(12:19):
it was bs and then just a year later, less
than a year later, actually Gallin Maxwell is arrested in
July of twenty twenty, charged and convicted as similar crimes.
She is in prison in tallahassee tonight as we record.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That is correct. The big difference for me between the
JFK assassination and you know, the death of Jeffrey Epstein
is that we have film of JFK's assassination. We have
a ton of witnesses.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Whose cameras were working.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah yeah, and with Epstein the cameras were not working,
and we have really zero witnesses.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But what about the security guards, he might be asking, Well, again,
check out the episode. In the wake of this, I
think we can all agree this guy's a villain, right sure.
In the wake of his passing, further investigations didn't really
answer a ton of questions. They led to more questions,
and even now twenty twenty four, in the years after
(13:21):
his death, the public continues to wonder did he have
dirt on people? If so, whom will we ever learn
why he spent so much time engaging in human trafficking.
He didn't need the money at this point, right, he
was a proven multimillionaire. If he was indeed trafficking underage
(13:43):
victims to powerful patrons, what did he want in exchange
for these services? Who exactly was in his proverbial little
black book. We're going to pause for a word from
our sponsor. We'll dive in.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I don't know man's It's the mother of all conspiracy tropes, right,
the idea that there's this hidden cabal of people who
actually run the world and they can do whatever they want,
and they want to do messed up things.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, there's a not so hidden cabal of a small
number of people that can do whatever the heck they
want pretty much because they have that superpower that you've
pointed out in the past, been a craft ton of money,
and they really can fly wherever they want, like literally
travel wherever they want. Whenever they want. They can buy
property probably wherever they want. They can do whatever they
(14:45):
want on that private property unless somebody else finds out,
and you know, if it's illegal, finds out and tries
to prosecute them. But then they've got that superpower still,
so they can fight pretty much anything in court or
bribe officials. So it is this weird thing where it's
the question is are they working together on something? And
(15:07):
that's why this is such an interesting story because maybe
there was somebody getting dirt on individuals who had these
superpowers and were maybe taking part in things like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah. The main way you get in trouble in this
strata of society is by doing something bad to your
socioeconomic peers, right, Yeah, because Bernie never made off with
the money. Really, he got popped because he wasn't stealing
from poor people, let's be honest. Yeah, a lot of
(15:42):
the global cabal conspiracy theories are hogwashed. They can be disproven.
But this one, like you said, it's different because there
are photographs before the Palm Beach authorities and before the
nineteen nineties investigation, before those were quote unquote watched, we
know there were there was some sort of system it
(16:07):
appeared for collecting and storing video. What was on that video?
We the public still don't know, I mean, I don't know.
We also have to be careful here because, yes, organized
abuse of children is red meat to certain factions of
conspiracy lore. You know, like it's it's something you hear
(16:29):
all about all the time. QAnon is just one recent example.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, when it comes to the video, Ben, the stuff
I've seen often goes back to someone named Sarah Ransom,
who is someone who you know was trafficked by Epstein
and Galine Maxwell. And she has stated, she stated in
emails quite a while ago that she has physically seen
videos of recordings made by Epstein made. The recordings are
(16:58):
like made maybe for Epstein or i Epstein, of underaged,
unnamed women having sex with people like Bill Clinton, Prince
Andrew and Richard Branson. That's according to the emails from
Sarah Ransom. But it's a weird situation. She spoke at
one point with Good Morning Britain and I'm just a
(17:18):
quick quote here quote It's no secret that everything was recorded.
I have also seen recordings in his office. There are
videos that exist. The people that know they exist. I'm
sure they're very frightened of them being released. That's her quote,
but she's also kind of gone back on that a
little bit on some of those statements. So it's kind
of hard to know if it's almost like a posturing
(17:42):
or a threatening kind of thing, like there might be
videos and I'm going to come out publicly and say this,
or if there are actually physical videos that exist.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Which also brought to mind the question of whether or
not there was a posthumous insurance policy, right, a dead
hand strategy on Epstein's part, such that people would preserve
his life knowing that if he passed away, these things,
if they exist, would be released. It turns out whether
(18:11):
or not that was true, there has to this date
been no publicly confirmed evidence collected by Epstein of you know,
his powerful associates abusing children.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
On video, well, at least that we know of, because the.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Public, the public haven't, That's what I'm saying, publicly.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Confirmed, because investigators on that in that twenty nineteen raid
where they went to his townhouse in Manhattan, they allegedly
found quote a cache of child sexual abuse material. Right,
So the question is does that cash and that material
include some of these powerful, wealthy people, and it is
(18:51):
it will never be released like that because of what
it also contains, which is child sexual abuse. But then
what do you do I guess as an authority, what
do you do with that stuff? Do you immediately start
charging the fifty or however many people adults probably that
are on the videos there, or if there are even
adults included in the videos, It's just it becomes a
(19:16):
messed up situation that again we don't know. We don't
have enough information as people talking about this publicly.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Look at the earlier initial reports too. I want to
shout out the Miami Herald yet again for their excellent
reporting which I mentioned previous episodes. In the Palm Beach arrest.
We know from the initial reports there that they they
said they found video recording equipment, right, but what does
(19:44):
that mean? You know what exactly happened to that stuff?
Those answers still aren't out there. We know they're also
flight logs right of people flying on Epstein's private aircraft.
We know there is document of him hanging out with
people sometimes just at swank New York parties, right, Because
(20:07):
he's big in the world of philanthropy, as was his
partner gillaying. We also have these statements of trafficking survivors,
multiple trafficking survivors who are saying, yes, this happened. They
have named names, they have described things in as specific
detail as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And now we have location tracking data as of several
weeks ago since today's date, like recording this episode. And
we we'll get into that a little bit later. But
there is a phone tracking data from targeted advertising that
it's been released, and Wired has a whole piece on
(20:47):
it where there are a ton of individual cellular phones
that were tracked on that island. Quote I'm sorry to
say this, but quote Pedophile Island or Epstein Island or
Epstein Island. Yet there are a ton of these what
is it, Little Saint James Island and it then this
(21:08):
location data tracks from whatever was going on on the island,
and then it goes backwards and forwards from the time
that it was on the island, and it's tracked two
mansions all over the place to twenty six different states
in the United States, And well, I guess there's something
to point out here. But the only reason why it's
not also tracked to Europe and other countries is because
(21:31):
of the privacy laws that exist in many other countries,
but in the US it's like, hey, you got location data,
let's sell that stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And you know, the question haunted people in the wake
of Epstein's death, as the court cases and the investigations
still whilend their way through various processes. The question was this,
if these powerful people, many of whom still hold positions
of enormous influence, if any of them are actual child abusers,
(22:03):
does the public not have a right to know? I
mean the accusations, though if true, they would be fundamentally explosive.
This is not a political right versus political left thing either,
because we said more than one US president was messing
with Epstein. Yeah, Trump and Bill Clinton famously not on
the same side of most issues, but they were cool
(22:26):
with this guy at one point or another. And then,
of course, there was the member of the British royal family,
Prince Andrew, who apparently does not sweat, or allegedly did
not sweat at the time due to his alleged medical condition.
The public was out moneyed, but not outnumbered. They demanded
(22:48):
more information, and that's where we get to Tonight's like
the beginning of tonight's big update. It was December of
last year, twenty twenty three, when US Feral District Court
Judge Loretta A. Presca ordered the public disclosure of the
identities of more than one hundred and fifty people mentioned
(23:09):
in this just library's worth or novel's worth, excuse me
of court documents related to Epstein. It was mind blowing, man,
because it was January third of this year when nine
hundred pages of mostly unredacted documents got released on a Wednesday.
The next day a second batch of documents is released.
(23:30):
That's January fourth. January fifth, a third tranch of documents
comes out, and there's still more in the days that follow.
There are like one hundred and eighty four people listed
as Jay Does in this starting John Doe.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
That stands for.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
A small number. Of these names are the names of
minors or victims of trafficking an assault, and in her ruling,
Judge Presca said, we're not going to release the names
of those child victims.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that's a good thing. Did they actually release the
full list like it actually came out?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
They've released a lot of stuff, But the problem is
we don't know if that's the full list. What we're
seeing is they've released the names of people who have
been mentioned in some way in the court proceedings and
in the documentation that informs those proceedings. But as far
as like a legendary little black book similar to you know,
(24:33):
Heidi Flies or something, they're not going to find a
copy of something like that, not in the public sphere.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, yeah, it is weird to imagine that finding the
line between his business dealings, right, that may actually be
above board with an individual, right or not above board,
but may not have anything to do with this. What
if that person's name is inside that black book because
(25:00):
of a business thing or whatever. Just we're talking about
his like rolodex maybe or his whatever it is. Maybe
that one innocent there's one or you know, one hundred
innocent people completely not touching any of the gnarly stuff
that he did. But then there's other people in there
that were and and I think proving that is such
a difficult thing, especially when you've got witness statements as
(25:25):
some of your primary documentation, right, some of your primary evidence.
Having to having to prove it proving that Prince Andrew,
a prince, a royal person, did these things. It's a
tall milkshake. I think again, when it comes to the
superpowers that somebody like a Prince Andrew has when it
comes to money and influence and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah, folks, think of it this way.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Let's say you are a pretty successful drug dealer, right,
Let's see your street level drug dealer. Uh, you that
as your primary means of income. A lot of the
folks that you have on one of your phones are
going to be affiliated with your primary vocation. But then
(26:08):
an equal, if not greater number of people, depending on
how you set up your burners, they're just going to
be folks, you know, like just your friends from college
or your family members and stuff like that. So you
can't look at a list like this and immediately make
the leap to saying that all these folks are guilty
(26:29):
by association. In fact, guilt by association is a huge
fallacy that the court systems try to avoid. So, even
though it is very tempting, I think to hear about
a famous person on one day's list and say, well,
I already didn't like the guy, so I know he's guilty.
Even though that is tempting, that's not how the law
(26:51):
does or should work.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Agreed, well, and think about the public perception if there
was one attempted prosecution of somebody and it turned out
that that person or they could not prove that that
person had anything to do with it, and they fail
in court to actually prosecute right, think about what that
would do to not only public perception, but how it
would weaken any further cases of attempting to prosecute people
(27:16):
who were a part of this.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Let's also point out a statement from CBS News. Their
legal analyst, Ricky Kleiman, said something that I think gets
the heart of this, noting that many of the names
in these documents are quote of innocent people. It's people
who may have been employed. It's people who may have
gone to dinner or to a cocktail party at Jeffrey
Epstein's home. It's not necessarily naming people who have engaged
(27:40):
in actions that were anything like the deplorable actions of
Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell. Think of everybody you have
met in your life up to now. Imagine if any
one of them committed a crime and you were listed
as someone who knew, met or was in the same
room as them at some point, do you think that
(28:03):
makes you automatically guilty. I hope not, because, like most
of us, I.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Met a lot of people. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
This is this is also this problem, I would argue,
is exacerbated because he is functioning Jeffrey Epstein's functioning in
relatively rarefied air. A lot of people at this level
of the socioeconomic pyramid or hierarchy, whatever you want to
call it. They know each other. They have a lot
of stuff in common. Of course, they were going to
(28:33):
run into each other, you know, I mean even all
the US presidents, even the ones who don't personally like
each other, they hang out, They know each other. They
kick it because they have so much in common with
each other despite their differences. And that's kind of what
happens when you get to a certain level of finance.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, it is true. Should we just go over like
some more of these individuals.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
They're not all really named jay Do. No, No, that's
kind of a monarcher. We talked about Prince Andrew, who
for a brief moment, looked like he was going to
get in some kind of actual trouble what normal people
would call trouble.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
There's a really interesting article you can read called could
Queen Elizabeth have stopped Prince Andrew's BBC interview from airing?
That was published I think today or yesterday as we're
recording this on April fourteenth, and it's in Town and
Country magazine, And it is a very interesting just concept
(29:37):
of like, could could the Queen back in the day
when she was still alive, could she have prevented Prince
Andrew from actually going on the BBC and talking about
this that whole like sweating thing.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Remember, that's like the is the legal framework there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Exactly exactly, but it's just interesting context in that if
you want to jump through that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And before we move on, Prince Andrew is a whole
other story. He did settle a lawsuit with his primary
accuser while the entire time denying any involvement or having
ever met her or anything like that. His attorney said, quote,
(30:17):
Prince Andrew regrets his association with Epstein and commends the
bravery of the survivor, Virginia Geffrey Geffrey and other survivors
in standing up for themselves and others.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Wow, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, No, don't like it very much either. Let's just
go ahead and talk about Brooklinn. Let's do it. Let's
get it out of the way.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Famous amateur saxophonist Bill Glinn.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, governor of Arkansas, who didn't know anything about what
was going on in Mina in the airport there with
the drugs and the CIA, and didn't know anything about
what was the other.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Scandal, factor eight exporting hepatitie and HIV around the world.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah, he had no idea.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
He had no idea that you know, what was going
on with mister Epstein and miss Maxwell. He just didn't
no idea.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
He was just he was like, I'll take a free
jet you know what I mean, a free jet ride.
I should say his name is on manifest for the
private jet he had taken. Four trips have been documented,
and their response to this, because the Clintons did respond,
was that these trips were in connection with the work
(31:34):
of the Clinton Foundation.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh yeah, don't forget. Hillary was there too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Hillary Rodham Clinton was also there. Not an amateur saxophonist,
but former Secretary of State, almost president, almost president once
upon a time, and Clinton neither. No one in the
Clinton family or political dynasty has at this point been
officially accused of any crimes related to the Epstein abuse empire.
(32:02):
Twenty nineteen, Clinton released a statement denying all knowledge, like
we said, of any trafficking, abuse or related villainy. As
far as the mechanics of willful ignorance or the ins
and outs of plausible deniability, that is, I think that's
(32:25):
up for phi philosophical and legal debate, is it not?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
It is most certainly.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Oh, but he's not the only president. As we said,
fans of Home Alone Two Lost in New York, you
probably remember Donald Trump. He's I would say, most famous
for his cameo in that In that film, he was
also president for a time. He is currently busy in
court for a totally totally different thing.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I don't know. It's financial right racization.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So maybe that's New York Manhattan financi guys doing what
they're doing. Yeah, who knows. Seems like there was definitely
something going on there. Whether you're a fan of him
or not, it kind of doesn't change the fact that
he's also seems to be pretty involved.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, and of course there were Again, it's the it's
the kind of thing where if you do or don't,
if you already dislike someone when you hear them associated
with something like this, you can immediately and easily make
a logical jump. Oh sure, even when that's not necessarily founded,
I will say. You can hear and you can see
(33:37):
video of Donald Trump dancing with Jeffrey Epstein. You can
you can see that they are they are talking about
each other in public and very friendly terms. Donald Trump
has a quote that did not age well about Epstein.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Oh? No, oh, what was that quote?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
In an article published in New York Magazine on October
twenty eighth, two thousand and two. It's called Jeffrey Epstein
International Moneyman of Mystery. And in this article, the reporter
speaks with Donald Trump and Trump says, I've known jeff
for fifteen years. He's a terrific guy. He's a lot
(34:24):
of fun to be with. It's even said that he
likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many
of them are on the younger side, No doubt about it.
Jeffrey enjoys his social life.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Hey. You could also find numerous images that have been
taken over the years with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein
posing together, looking real chummy, hanging out and remember, yeah,
Epstein had that palm beach thing. Whyere is maar a lago? Oh?
Really close? So anyway, there's that. There are also numerous
pictures social pictures of at least Bill Clinton with Jeffrey Epstein.
(34:58):
So if you ever like think this is all bs,
these guys are full of it. Like maybe because a
picture of someone hanging out socially with another person, maybe
that's absolutely nothing. Maybe it's literally a business meeting. It
could be that they could. But when I don't know,
when you put it all together and their names get
released in a list the way these guys were, the
(35:22):
dots have been connected.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Also, people are not stupid most people. Again, I know
this sounds naive, but I believe fundamentally that most people
are incredibly intelligent, especially when given the opportunity to digest
information and the access to information.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
So picture it this way, folks.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
What if you have a really wealthy friend who just
happens to live in your neighborhood. Right, he's inviting you
over to parties because he's a neighborly dude, But often
he says, oh, hey, hold up, I'll see later. I
gotta go get a massage. At some point, you have
to wonder how often does this guy get massages, you
(36:00):
know what I mean, even if you're totally not involved
in anything else, right if if like I don't know, man,
it seems kind of hard to ignore.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
If he asks you to get a massage, raise your
hand and be like, no, thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I appreciate the gesture, but I am out. Oh other
people got accused. Michael Jackson. Oh, and David Copperfield. That's
a deep cut.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Remember him the Illusionist?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, I do, I do remember him. I remember.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
State Building.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, I think it's still active in Vegas. I feel
like I remember seeing signs for Copperfield in Vegas while
we were there last time.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It's weird, Yeah, because celebrities and acts that you would
have thought are long retired often they just went to Vegas.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yep, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I mean, maybe that's the excuse we should start giving
kids when a pet passes away. Fluffy's Fluffy is fine.
She's just doing her residency in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh, we've been doing this for well over a decade.
Is that where we're gonna end up?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
We can end up in Vegas. Oh, man, it's just stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
They don't want you to know. We're just in a
like darkened corner in a casino somewhere and we every day. Yeah,
welcome back to this evening's episode of stuff. Right, don't
want you to know.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
We've got a tiger.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Now, we'll just what we'll do to jazz up the show.
We'll just use all the leftover props in accoutrement from
acts in the past.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Oh, that's great, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
We'll get them to drop by.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We'll check on whichever Osmond is still in action and
just have them like walk on stage like, hey, one
of the Osmond's, Dude, it writes itself, it rights itself, agreed,
And these depositions speak of writing and they seem kind
of damning too. In the David Copperfield situation, one of
(37:56):
the survivors of abuse is asked did Field, being David Copperfield,
ever discussed Jeffrey's involvement with young girls like you, to
which to which the person responds quote. He questioned me
if I was aware that girls were getting paid to
find other girls going to the networking aspect, because you
(38:16):
mentioned Galley Maxwell searching for people who fit this demographic
of abuse. They would also offer to pay girls to
bring their friends over and to bring them into the trafficking.
It's just dirty stuff, man, And I guess we should
also point out I hate that it's true, but it
(38:38):
is important for us to note because of the heinous
and unclean nature of this conspiracy. There were opportunists who
would photo shop or construct fake images that appeared to
have somebody next to Galaine Maxwell or Efrey Epstein, and
(39:02):
it became for a time it became pretty difficult to
suss out which of those were true and which of
those were fakes. And all we can say is thank
goodness this happened before the huge advent of the deep fake.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Oh yeah, there are also non credible accusations coming out
all the time. There was one really recently involving Disney
something crazy.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
It made the rounds on TikTok, and the headline was
that Disney is buying Epstein's Island and making a theme
park on it, which is just you know, not happening
at all. That was put out by a satire parody site, which,
you know, so many things that get circulated on social
(39:48):
media now originate either a satire parody. Somebody shares it
without context, I'm assuming because they don't know like and
maybe an older person who doesn't know how the internet
works post it and then somebody else sees it like
oh what, oh my god, and then they start posting.
But yeah, that, at least as of right now, doesn't
(40:09):
appear to be true.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I'm I'm this is Gallows humor. But I'm only laughing
because I'm remembering a bit from Shane Gillis's one of
his stand up specials where he's talking about what he
called He's like, he's talking about how his dad drinks
a lot and then watches the news and it's the
worst way to watch the news while you're getting like
kind of tanked on beer or whatever. And so he's
(40:32):
he's dozing off and he hears some news like rockets
are being fired in the Middle East, and.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
He's like, huh, what's going on there? Man?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
And then he has to just find the person who
is unfortunately closest to him physically at that moment and
try to repeat the story back to him. Shout out
to Shane Gillis, By the way, he's fantastic stand up.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh yeah, very interesting fellow. A lot of people find
him was super controversial. I don't know. I think he's
a hell.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
I don't know much about him, to be honest. I
saw two stand up specials, I want to say, but
apparently he made some I think he was on Saturday
Night Live. But he did some really out of pocket stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well stuff that people are offended by. But again, like
he's a comedian. He got hired to host SNL. He
said some stuff. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you do.
I thought it was funny.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
All right, there we go, you know, speaking of segues,
let's go back to the horror show that is this list.
You can read kind of a dubious who's who of
famous people on these lists or pulled from these court documents. Again,
there hasn't been a publicized comprehensive like smoking Gun, Little
(41:51):
Black Book. I Jeffrey Epstein am writing this, and here's
the list of people that did evil stuff. What you
can see is again all just from these court documents.
And in January twenty twenty four, writing for The Independent,
Alex Ross and EO. Dodds published a pretty extensive list
of like globally notable figures, including Alan Dershowitz, a lawyer
(42:16):
and a media pundit. He's listed as being in close
association with Epstein. He's been accused of participating in this
trafficking or in the abuse of children. But the question
here is a little different with this guy because Matt,
we both know he represented Epstein as his legal counsel.
(42:40):
You would naturally hang out with your clients as legal counsel, right,
that's your job.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Well, yeah, some attorneys will not socialize with their clientele
in that way, So that's.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
But like in a business meeting sense.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yes, yes, you will have those all the time, right,
even if it's nowadays, if it's just remote, you're gonna
have these meetings all the time. But you know, when
you're in those circles, those I keep calling them superpowered circles,
like those kind where you exist on that elevation, I imagine
that those social interactions are probably higher.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, you're ware like you're you're hanging out and you know,
you're you're grilling tigers, you're wearing your snow leopard assless
chaps or whatever, and then you're drinking the adrenochrome and
you're like, have we lost touch of come in?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Man?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well, we talked about how most of that stuff's not real,
but the stuff that is real is the folks hanging
out at the country club right grabbing, you know, a
couple of holes in the golf course, or hanging out
at a restaurant that most people can't get into.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, Bohemian Grove is real. But I want to go
back to this too. Man, are you telling me that
you don't think at least a few millionaires have eaten Tiger?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, sure, statistically, yeah, at least a few.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Come on, man, they might not have a regular day
of it, but they did it.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I just feel bad for the personal chefs or whoever's
having to prepare it. That's awful.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, I feel bad for the tiger, but yeah, the
chefs as well. I mean, look, there's also we talked
about this too. There's Leslie Wexner, the tycoon of Victoria's Secret.
He has a long running association with Epstein that paved
the way for the launch of his financial empire, and
their real estate dealings get very shisty very quickly. And
(44:33):
then there are other honorable mentions. Matt, before we go
to an ad break, is it cool if we just
laundry list off a few more people who have been
mentioning these court documents.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Sure, there's Leo. Leo was in there. Leonardo DiCaprio, M.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, it was Richard Branson, which is weird because he
has an airline.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Al Gore, I did not expect Naomi Campbell to be
on there.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Surprise for me as well. Honestly, I guess Bill Gates
should have not been a surprise because he's so wealthy.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
And then, like other sleeper I hesitate to call him
sleeper hits, but like Kate Blanchett, Heidi Kloom Gloom Club,
I'm not plugged in Klum.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
It's glum clue.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
And then Chris Tucker, which really bums me out.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah I loved Friday.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well yeah, yeah, just really, that's upsetting Chris, if you're
really on there and that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Former Prime Minister of Israel, Hud Barak, Kevin Spacey, Stephen Hawking,
the like, the list goes on. We're gonna pause for
a word from our sponsor and we'll we'll dive into
more of these allegations.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Okay, we're back. Let's jump to the new stuff coming
to us from why this It's upsetting on a number
of levels for me to talk about this. First, let's
talk about targeted advertising and what can happen when your
phone is being served targeted ads and or is being
(46:19):
prepared to be served targeted ads. This is from a
Wired article titled Jeffrey Epstein's Island Visitors Exposed by Data Broker,
published on March twenty eighth, twenty twenty four. You can
find it right now, and let's just here's a quote
from it. It's about how this works. Before a targeted
(46:40):
advertisement appears on an APPAA website, phones and other devices
send information about their owners to real time bidding platforms
and add exchanges, frequently including users' location data and other
personal information about them, sometimes low level personal information. It
depends often on basically what you've allowed your carrier to
(47:05):
track and send. While advertisers can use this data to
inform their bidding decisions. Again, for those targeted advertisements, companies
like the one we're going to talk about right now,
Near Intelligence that's the name, which is a funny name,
isn't it. Near Intelligence. It will siphon, repackage, analyze, and
sell all of that data, including your location data. So
(47:30):
this outfit Near Intelligence got a hold of location tracking data.
That's associated with these targeted advertisements or the data for them.
And they collected almost two hundred mobile devices of people
who definitely confirmed visited that island of Jeffrey Epstein's Island,
(47:52):
and then they tracked them forwards and backwards in time
from their time on that island as well as their
movements on the island health and it is crazy the
precision that this data has to it of where these
people went. There are coordinates that pinpoint within a a
(48:12):
several centimeters of space, if that makes sense. So what
they ended up being able to do is compile all
of this stuff together from as early as July twenty
sixteen to the final date of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest on
July sixth, twenty nineteen. So that's that's about what three
(48:33):
years there of tracking data, and they tracked it to
individual homes, to mansions to here we go. Let's see
to one hundred and sixty six locations throughout the United
States before and after they visited Little Saint James Island.
There are eleven two hundred and seventy nine coordinates that
(48:57):
were then you know, they were tract and then were
obtained by wired and written about it. Also points to Ukraine,
the Cayman Islands, Australia, and again, as we mentioned previously,
Europe was not shown in any of that tracking data
because of their privacy laws. This is just very crazy.
(49:18):
Oh eighty cities, eighty cities in Florida, Massachusetts, Texas, Michigan,
and New York at the very top.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Yeah, in terms of like frequency of travel.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, and you can also you can also cross reference
some of that with like flight plans. But this is
a higher fidelity of accuracy, I would say, if that's
not too redundant, and we know there are more questions
out there. It's so creepy that this news had somewhat
(49:53):
faded into the background a lot of times, right to
the point where it's kind of like Edward Snowed or
Julian Assange. You have to go look for these stories
until a big court case pops up. You know, it
might surprise a lot of us listening tonight that there
has been very little in the way of additional prosecution
(50:14):
against or investigation into individuals other than Galley Maxwell and
Jeffrey Epstein. There has been a lot of chatter, a
lot of real time conspiracy folklore, formation, tons of rumors.
You know, there's another thing that stuck out to me
in that December twenty twenty three court order revealing the
(50:36):
names of these various jay does the judge Presca said
the following quote. The people whose names are to be disclosed,
including sexual abuse victims, litigation witnesses, Epstein's employees, and even
some people with only a passing connection to the scandal,
have until January first to appeal the order. This essentially
(51:00):
gave anyone in the documents two weeks fourteen days to
appeal a decision to name them publicly. So we still
have to wonder, you know, where the people had their
legal team on the ball and just said, hey, keep
me out of it. I mean, some people clearly took
something like a nothing to hide kind of stance, like
(51:22):
the Clintons are on record, you know, not attempting to
erase their names and also providing a public statement. I
just I don't know, man, the back and forth. Sometimes
the Internet gets so abstract that it feels as though
people are forgetting these crimes are real things and they
(51:43):
happen to real people who survived and carry that trauma.
You know, I wish we could say there was justice,
and I guess there is justice of the sort. Glame
Maxwell is locked up. We know Epstein did not act alone.
And if there was a larger child abuse network at
play that was you know, very active and organized, then
(52:07):
what happened to the rest of them? Why why aren't
they in court?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I think this is why I'm bringing up that data
from the location tracking, because it's it. We actually have
the information now. The specific to a centimeter tracking shows
exactly where people live and generally who they are, probably
at all likelihood, because there are several maps that were
generated that include common evening locations for each device, in
(52:34):
common daytime locations for each device like pinpointed. The problem
is Wired is like they've reproduced several images of the maps,
but they're super generalized because if you actually looked at
the tracking data for an individual device, you could say, oh,
oh my gosh, uh, this is speculating, but that is
(52:57):
Bill Clinton's like phone, that's that's his place of residence,
and that's you know, here is where he was on
this date and all this other stuff or whatever for
an appearance, and you could I think a law enforcement
would have to come through and take that data and
have to have a reason to use that data to
(53:18):
try and you know, basically bring someone else in on charges.
Otherwise it's still kind of accusations. And it doesn't matter
if you've got evidence of this specific evidence of someone
traveling to an island, because that just travel to that
island doesn't prove anything. Right, So we've actually got a
(53:39):
we have the data, it's just we maybe can't use it,
or an organization like Wired and other media outlets are
not going to use it because it could potentially be
a legal firestorm of biblical proportions.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
And then there are other possible intervening variables, and I
think that point was well said Matt. There are other
possible variables, such as the idea that there is evidence
that appears to have vanished, right, multiple survivors, multiple eyewitnesses
are saying there were collections of photographs of CSAM or
(54:17):
child sexual abuse material, possibly video, we don't know where
it is. And then maybe the most tenuous thing, but
still a very real thing, is the possible intelligence connection.
Because Robert Maxwell Glaine's father had his fingers in a
lot of things, and he has been alleged over time
(54:38):
to have connections with multiple intel ops, most notably Masad,
and this naturally prompted the question, founded or unfounded, as
to whether Epstein was perpetrating this unclean conspiracy in service
to some other power, just because he was himself a
(55:01):
diseased individual, but because he was being actively instructed to
get dirt on people.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Well, yeah, okay, let's go back to ninety six. The
first time that the FBI hears about this guy, or
at least what we think is probably the first time
the FBI is really made aware of Jeffrey Epstein and
the possible activities that he's partaking in. Do you think
that is a even though nothing happened, right, there was
no investigation, nothing happened because of those allegations. Do you
(55:33):
think there's a possibility that someone within the FBI was
alerted because of his status in society in Manhattan and
was potentially reached out to or maybe I don't want
to say the FBI would threaten anybody, but you might,
you know, strike up a conversation with somebody at a
very high class bar and just say, hey, Jeff heard
(55:55):
you get into X or whatever, and then just lightly
threats and tim and got him to start working for
them because It could happened way back in the nineties.
I think maybe not. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
It could have happened before the nineties. It would have
happened during Bear Stearns. It could have happened to a
Dulton school saying hey, we'll set you up with something.
I mean, that's the thing could have is not the
same as did but you're absolutely right, there is. If
something like this happens, the order of operations could be
in any specific sequence. Right Yeah, Catching someone and leveraging
(56:29):
them is something law enforcement does.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
But would they do that to this degree?
Speaker 2 (56:33):
All right, Yeah, who knows? We just again we The
one thing we do know is that a previous head
of the FBI sure did like to get dirt on
people and store it in his office and make sure
he could pull those triggers if he needed to. Old
Hoover himself. I mean, it's just a real thing, and
it I don't think he was the last head of
(56:55):
an intelligence agency and or a very powerful organization like
that would be interested in having someone like Epstein functioning
to bring in these powerful people, get dirt on them,
and then have some kind of either real or perceived
control over them.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Right Yeah, absolutely, and neither. If that happened, this would
not be the first, would also not be the last.
This stuff continues, and we can't wait to hear your thoughts, folks.
One thing that we always want to end on we're
talking about this sort of stuff. To be very clear,
when we're bringing up these questions, exploring these crimes and
the possible connections, we are in no way downplaye dismissing,
(57:35):
nor ignoring the very real trauma suffered by victims. If
you take nothing else with you from this, listen closely. Please,
if you are someone you know as a victim of trafficking,
do not hesitate to reach out to the authorities. If
you are in a situation where you think local authorities
may be corrupt. Remember in the US and abroad, there
(57:56):
are national level resources to assist you. Here in the US,
you can contact National Human Trafficking Hotline. You can leave
an anonymous tip at their website, human Trafficking Online dot org.
You can also contact them at the following number one
eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight. Again
that's one eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight.
(58:19):
Be safe, folks, and we're going to unfortunately have to
continue following this and updating it, and Matt, I'm right
there with you. I hope that the data broker information
leads to more answers, because the deeper we dig it
just seems we're finding more questions.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Oh yeah, Well, in that company Near Intelligence, the one
that collected all that location data, or at least bought
it and used it and then released it, they are
under crazy scrutiny, crippled by debt. There's all kinds of
stuff going on. Even US senators like Ron Wyden are
trying to launch investigations into that company right now for
(58:58):
what is it fencing sensitive location data and all this
other I mean, which again is a whole other subject, right,
that's a whole episode, probably just talking about how data
brokers use location data for targeted advertising. We've talked about
targeted advertising before as a whole, but that is a problem,
that is a real problem when it comes to privacy,
(59:19):
which is what is the thing you always say about privacy, Ben.
Speaker 3 (59:22):
Yeah, privacy as a modern concept is kind of a fad.
It's very much an endangered species. Your privacy is eroding
bit by bit as you listen to this episode. We're
not going to be part of the grift obviously, but
we do want and need your help.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Oh for sure, we do. You can reach out to
us a bunch of ways. One thing I would recommend
before before you take off, read the Vanity Fair article
that was written in two thousand and three by Vicky Ward.
It's talent. It's titled The Talented Mister Epstein, and it
really goes into his life and his connections with these billionaires, multimillionaires,
(01:00:04):
flying them around on his seven to twenty seven and
all of his socialite life stuff before he was known
to have done anything, at least publicly. And if you
watch there's an episode of sixty Minutes Australia by Tara
Brown and it goes into depth with Vicky Ward, the
person who wrote that article for Vanity Fair, about how
(01:00:27):
she was in contact with people who were making allegations
back in two thousand and three. But Epstein showed up
at the editor's office of Vanity Fair and basically shut
down all those allegations but still allowed this big pr
piece to go through for him.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
And if you'd like to read the court papers, we're
mentioning fans of primary sources, if you'd like to read
those documents in full. You can find them very easily
over at the Guardian the headline Unsealed Jeffrey Epstein court papers,
Read document in full. Heads up, folks, it is legally
ease if you would like to hear more sources, because
(01:01:03):
God knows, we have a ton too many to list
in the show today, do check out our past episodes again,
we have a lot of them on this as the
investigations continued. You can also contact us directly for more
information and you know, contact us pretty old thing if
you want to send us a pun, if you want
to suggest a new episode, or just.
Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Follow up with how you doing? Little letter from home.
We love all of that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
You can find us on Instagram, You can find us
on YouTube all the platform jazz. You can also give
us a call directly.
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yes, our number is one eight three three st DWYTK.
When you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself
a cool nickname and let us know if we can
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got more to say they can fit in that three
minute message. Why not instead send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
We are the folks who read every single email we get.
Be well, aware fellow conspiracy realist sometimes avoid writes back
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Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Our colleague Dole is on adventures, but will be returning soon.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission
control decand most importantly, you are you. You are here that
makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Tonight we're just talking about this off air with Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Tonight, we are returning to an unfortunately still unfolding story
that recently rocked America and indeed the world. It's a
story we've been exploring for years at this point, starting
back in twenty nineteen when we asked, who is this
Jeffrey Epstein character? Why does it seem he broke the
law and got away? It's a question that has some
(01:08):
added context now, as we all know, Jeffrey Epstein has
passed away, and this evening we are returning with a
follow up.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Matt.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It's been a long time in coming, and I think
maybe we start off by telling everybody tuning in now,
please be aware this may not be appropriate for all audiences.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Most definitely not appropriate for all audiences. We covered him
for the first time in January of twenty nineteen, and
then he was He died on August tenth, twenty nineteen,
which is pretty crazy, less than a year away from
his death when we started talking about him again. This
(01:47):
is a weird update because Ben, I don't know about you.
I didn't know how much targeted advertising was going to
play into this episode about Epstein.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, and well, without further ado, let's get into it,
explore that and everything else. Here are the facts. Who
was Epstein? We know this, longtime listeners, you know this.
For much of his career, Jeffrey Epstein officially was a financier,
a former teacher turned money guy. There is nothing inherently
(02:18):
wrong with that until you start looking into the increasingly
bizarre circumstances of his rise to financial power. Right he
was teaching at this uber posh private school called the
Dalton School without a college degree. He did attend college briefly,
he dropped out. And then there's even The more you dig,
(02:38):
the more weird stuff you find. Some of it kind
of tenuous, but a lot of it in culmination, it
makes you think, like were in our past episodes. I
believe we talked a little bit about the Donald Barr connection,
which is its own kind of bag of badgers. Remember that,
the weird sci fi author.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, that was very strange. Yeah, I remember more of
the financial connections that seemed to just come out of nowhere.
Bear Stearns is a company that a lot of people
were talking about a long, long time ago, now in
twenty twenty four, but they were a major investment investment
bank firm. I guess you would call it. Maybe they
(03:19):
are one of these organizations that went down during the
giant financial collapse that occurred in well, the targeted financial
collapse in the investment sector that happened in two thousand
and eight and nine, I guess. But they were a
massive player, and Jeffrey Epstein got in very good with
that whole crowd.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, And that's somewhat separate, but it's distinct from, but
somehow related to his connections with folks like Leslie Wexner.
You're absolutely right. After he left the Dalton School or
was fired, let go, however you want to put it,
in nineteen seventy six. He did snaggage at bear Stearns,
(04:01):
multiple jobs. He worked in various roles in the organization,
and his bosses always noticed that he had a particular
talent for what we would call relationship management in this context,
that means befriending and hobnobbing with VIPs with very wealthy
clients bear Sterns and it's nineteen eighty one when he
(04:24):
leaves bear Stearns and begins his own financial company. He
does several of these. They go through a number of
different names. Check out our past episodes. His firms always
had throughout all the iterations, they always have one thing
in common. They cultivated, or you could even say targeted,
(04:45):
incredibly powerful and influential clients. Again, nothing inherently weird or
wrong about that, because if you have ever worked in investment,
you know that the whales are the folks you seek, right,
you want those big VIP accounts.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Well, and he was aided quite a bit by his
partner in both business and crime, Gillaane Maxwell, who was
a socialite in her own right, but she was a
big player within the social spheres all across the United
States and across the globe. And you know, cultivating these
(05:23):
kinds of clientele. I have no doubt that she played
a large role in that.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And we brought receipts. You can hear them in our
previous series, which was we have a three part episode
or we have a three part series on Epstein leading
up to his untimely demise or his timely demise, depending
on who you ask. Long story short, his career seemed
(05:49):
increasingly less focused on the day to day business of
growing money, because that's what a financial company is. Basically,
it's like a money farmer, and his career seemed more
and more focused on things that we could call blackmail
and things that are crimes, like sexual abuse and human trafficking.
He conspired to do these things. These are true conspiracies.
(06:13):
History would later prove this was also an open secret
in certain circles. You can see any number of photographs, videos,
documentation proving he was linked to some of the most
powerful people in the Western world. Not the same thing
as saying they committed similar crimes, but he definitely was
(06:33):
hanging out with financiers, business tycoons, celebrities, more than one
US president, and it seemed set to continue until I
think two thousand and five, police in Florida got a
report from a local parent that said, hey, this Jeffrey
Epstein guy living in Palm Beach sexually abused our fourteen
(06:58):
year old daughter tracts and the facade began to show.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, and let's get into that in just a
moment then, But we just we have to point out
that the first report of Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell to
the FBI was in nineteen ninety six by Maria Farmer
regarding herself and her sixteen year old sister. Because Maria
Farmer reached out and told them, hey, you know, this
(07:24):
person who's kind of my boss, I guess, and his
friend Gallaine just like sexually abused me and my sister,
my sixteen year old sister. And you know, at least
according to her story, and according to what followed after that,
the FBI kind of put it away and it was
like allegations and nothing else.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
And the two thousand and five accusations actually lead to something.
And for a lot of people, I think it's safe
to say at this point, throughout the nineties and even
unto the two thousand and five report, most folks had
not heard of Jeffrey Epstein, not really, It was just
another one of the names you hear bandied about with,
(08:05):
you know, like the group terms of the wealthy, and
most people probably hadn't heard of him, because you know,
most people are not wealthy. But this investigation again, I
like that you pointing out the nineteen nineties stuff that
got buried, because this investigation balloons and people are becoming
increasingly convinced Epstein hadn't abused just one child. A later
(08:28):
federal investigation will find credible allegations of abuse related to
at least thirty six different girls, teens and minors.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, we're thinly twelve years old, fourteen years old, sixteen
years old.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Messed up, unclean stuff. And fast forward to two thousand
and eight. Epstein does get convicted in the state of Florida,
but he strikes a cartoonish sweetheart plea deal he pleads
guilty to. We know there are problematic words here, but
the charges he played guilty to are procuring a child
(09:03):
for prostitution and to soliciting a prostitute. He is sentenced
to thirteen months in custody, but he's also on the
most generous work release program in.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
US history.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Maybe I remember we were all baffled. We didn't believe
it at first. He could essentially, during these thirteen months,
do whatever he wanted. He had an office he went
to every day, he could go meet with clients, and
he still had scats of clients, and he was just
kind of a freeman other than the fact that he
(09:42):
couldn't leave the US borders.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, definitely go back to the twenty nineteen episode, the
original one, just to go into the full detail of
all that stuff. He was definitely a free person at
that time. And just to add a little more context
here on the Galaine Maxwell thing, from the nineties up
until two thousand and eight there or two thousand and five,
I guess she was at least according to Maria Farmer
(10:05):
and others, she would drive around in a limousine or
a you know, a chartered vehicle basically that someone else
is driving around in, and she would stop at businesses,
at parks, at schools, and she would get out of
the vehicle, write down her phone number and hand it
to a teenager, a teenage girl, and say contact me,
(10:26):
basically as the person grooming these people who then end
up at Jeffrey Epstein's one of his palatial estates, usually
at least in this case, the one in New York.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Right, So he's operating, He's got an island that he
operates from, has got a location New York as well
as a location in Palm Beach, Florida. You can learn
more in depth about Gallaine Maxwell in our Gallaiine Maxwell update,
which is also out there and could also use use
a return in twenty twenty four or the fasting.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Is anybody skeptical about the criminal nature of these.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Two Yeah, just in case you have questions, We have
questions too, some of which particularly pertain to Galaane's father,
Robert Maxwell. Whole different bag badgers, possibly related the federal government.
Federal authorities again arrest Jeffrey Epstein on July sixth, twenty nineteen.
(11:27):
This time his charges his trafficking charges are interstate and scope.
He is charged with trafficking minors, specifically for sex in
both Florida and New York. August of the same year,
he dies in prison under circumstances that even the most
zealous of skeptics can only describe as murky. The official
(11:50):
cause suicide by Hanking yep.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And we have a whole episode on that too, by
the way, too, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Check out that one is epstein suicide and the autopsy war.
It's look the suicide conclusion, which was reached by the
medical examiner of the time. It's a conclusion a lot
of people still don't accept today, like the official story
of what happened at JFK. Right, Epstein's own lawyers thought
(12:19):
it was bs and then just a year later, less
than a year later, actually Gallin Maxwell is arrested in
July of twenty twenty, charged and convicted as similar crimes.
She is in prison in tallahassee tonight as we record.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That is correct. The big difference for me between the
JFK assassination and you know, the death of Jeffrey Epstein
is that we have film of JFK's assassination. We have
a ton of witnesses.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Whose cameras were working.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah yeah, and with Epstein the cameras were not working,
and we have really zero witnesses.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
But what about the security guards, he might be asking, Well, again,
check out the episode. In the wake of this, I
think we can all agree this guy's a villain, right sure.
In the wake of his passing, further investigations didn't really
answer a ton of questions. They led to more questions,
and even now twenty twenty four, in the years after
(13:21):
his death, the public continues to wonder did he have
dirt on people? If so, whom will we ever learn
why he spent so much time engaging in human trafficking.
He didn't need the money at this point, right, he
was a proven multimillionaire. If he was indeed trafficking underage
(13:43):
victims to powerful patrons, what did he want in exchange
for these services? Who exactly was in his proverbial little
black book. We're going to pause for a word from
our sponsor. We'll dive in.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I don't know man's It's the mother of all conspiracy tropes, right,
the idea that there's this hidden cabal of people who
actually run the world and they can do whatever they want,
and they want to do messed up things.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, there's a not so hidden cabal of a small
number of people that can do whatever the heck they
want pretty much because they have that superpower that you've
pointed out in the past, been a craft ton of money,
and they really can fly wherever they want, like literally
travel wherever they want. Whenever they want. They can buy
property probably wherever they want. They can do whatever they
(14:45):
want on that private property unless somebody else finds out,
and you know, if it's illegal, finds out and tries
to prosecute them. But then they've got that superpower still,
so they can fight pretty much anything in court or
bribe officials. So it is this weird thing where it's
the question is are they working together on something? And
(15:07):
that's why this is such an interesting story because maybe
there was somebody getting dirt on individuals who had these
superpowers and were maybe taking part in things like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah. The main way you get in trouble in this
strata of society is by doing something bad to your
socioeconomic peers, right, Yeah, because Bernie never made off with
the money. Really, he got popped because he wasn't stealing
from poor people, let's be honest. Yeah, a lot of
(15:42):
the global cabal conspiracy theories are hogwashed. They can be disproven.
But this one, like you said, it's different because there
are photographs before the Palm Beach authorities and before the
nineteen nineties investigation, before those were quote unquote watched, we
know there were there was some sort of system it
(16:07):
appeared for collecting and storing video. What was on that video?
We the public still don't know, I mean, I don't know.
We also have to be careful here because, yes, organized
abuse of children is red meat to certain factions of
conspiracy lore. You know, like it's it's something you hear
(16:29):
all about all the time. QAnon is just one recent example.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, when it comes to the video, Ben, the stuff
I've seen often goes back to someone named Sarah Ransom,
who is someone who you know was trafficked by Epstein
and Galine Maxwell. And she has stated, she stated in
emails quite a while ago that she has physically seen
videos of recordings made by Epstein made. The recordings are
(16:58):
like made maybe for Epstein or i Epstein, of underaged,
unnamed women having sex with people like Bill Clinton, Prince
Andrew and Richard Branson. That's according to the emails from
Sarah Ransom. But it's a weird situation. She spoke at
one point with Good Morning Britain and I'm just a
(17:18):
quick quote here quote It's no secret that everything was recorded.
I have also seen recordings in his office. There are
videos that exist. The people that know they exist. I'm
sure they're very frightened of them being released. That's her quote,
but she's also kind of gone back on that a
little bit on some of those statements. So it's kind
of hard to know if it's almost like a posturing
(17:42):
or a threatening kind of thing, like there might be
videos and I'm going to come out publicly and say this,
or if there are actually physical videos that exist.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Which also brought to mind the question of whether or
not there was a posthumous insurance policy, right, a dead
hand strategy on Epstein's part, such that people would preserve
his life knowing that if he passed away, these things,
if they exist, would be released. It turns out whether
(18:11):
or not that was true, there has to this date
been no publicly confirmed evidence collected by Epstein of you know,
his powerful associates abusing children.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
On video, well, at least that we know of, because the.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Public, the public haven't, That's what I'm saying, publicly.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Confirmed, because investigators on that in that twenty nineteen raid
where they went to his townhouse in Manhattan, they allegedly
found quote a cache of child sexual abuse material. Right,
So the question is does that cash and that material
include some of these powerful, wealthy people, and it is
(18:51):
it will never be released like that because of what
it also contains, which is child sexual abuse. But then
what do you do I guess as an authority, what
do you do with that stuff? Do you immediately start
charging the fifty or however many people adults probably that
are on the videos there, or if there are even
adults included in the videos, It's just it becomes a
(19:16):
messed up situation that again we don't know. We don't
have enough information as people talking about this publicly.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Look at the earlier initial reports too. I want to
shout out the Miami Herald yet again for their excellent
reporting which I mentioned previous episodes. In the Palm Beach arrest.
We know from the initial reports there that they they
said they found video recording equipment, right, but what does
(19:44):
that mean? You know what exactly happened to that stuff?
Those answers still aren't out there. We know they're also
flight logs right of people flying on Epstein's private aircraft.
We know there is document of him hanging out with
people sometimes just at swank New York parties, right, Because
(20:07):
he's big in the world of philanthropy, as was his
partner gillaying. We also have these statements of trafficking survivors,
multiple trafficking survivors who are saying, yes, this happened. They
have named names, they have described things in as specific
detail as possible.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And now we have location tracking data as of several
weeks ago since today's date, like recording this episode. And
we we'll get into that a little bit later. But
there is a phone tracking data from targeted advertising that
it's been released, and Wired has a whole piece on
(20:47):
it where there are a ton of individual cellular phones
that were tracked on that island. Quote I'm sorry to
say this, but quote Pedophile Island or Epstein Island or
Epstein Island. Yet there are a ton of these what
is it, Little Saint James Island and it then this
(21:08):
location data tracks from whatever was going on on the island,
and then it goes backwards and forwards from the time
that it was on the island, and it's tracked two
mansions all over the place to twenty six different states
in the United States, And well, I guess there's something
to point out here. But the only reason why it's
not also tracked to Europe and other countries is because
(21:31):
of the privacy laws that exist in many other countries,
but in the US it's like, hey, you got location data,
let's sell that stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And you know, the question haunted people in the wake
of Epstein's death, as the court cases and the investigations
still whilend their way through various processes. The question was this,
if these powerful people, many of whom still hold positions
of enormous influence, if any of them are actual child abusers,
(22:03):
does the public not have a right to know? I
mean the accusations, though if true, they would be fundamentally explosive.
This is not a political right versus political left thing either,
because we said more than one US president was messing
with Epstein. Yeah, Trump and Bill Clinton famously not on
the same side of most issues, but they were cool
(22:26):
with this guy at one point or another. And then,
of course, there was the member of the British royal family,
Prince Andrew, who apparently does not sweat, or allegedly did
not sweat at the time due to his alleged medical condition.
The public was out moneyed, but not outnumbered. They demanded
(22:48):
more information, and that's where we get to Tonight's like
the beginning of tonight's big update. It was December of
last year, twenty twenty three, when US Feral District Court
Judge Loretta A. Presca ordered the public disclosure of the
identities of more than one hundred and fifty people mentioned
(23:09):
in this just library's worth or novel's worth, excuse me
of court documents related to Epstein. It was mind blowing, man,
because it was January third of this year when nine
hundred pages of mostly unredacted documents got released on a Wednesday.
The next day a second batch of documents is released.
(23:30):
That's January fourth. January fifth, a third tranch of documents
comes out, and there's still more in the days that follow.
There are like one hundred and eighty four people listed
as Jay Does in this starting John Doe.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
That stands for.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
A small number. Of these names are the names of
minors or victims of trafficking an assault, and in her ruling,
Judge Presca said, we're not going to release the names
of those child victims.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, that's a good thing. Did they actually release the
full list like it actually came out?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
They've released a lot of stuff, But the problem is
we don't know if that's the full list. What we're
seeing is they've released the names of people who have
been mentioned in some way in the court proceedings and
in the documentation that informs those proceedings. But as far
as like a legendary little black book similar to you know,
(24:33):
Heidi Flies or something, they're not going to find a
copy of something like that, not in the public sphere.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, yeah, it is weird to imagine that finding the
line between his business dealings, right, that may actually be
above board with an individual, right or not above board,
but may not have anything to do with this. What
if that person's name is inside that black book because
(25:00):
of a business thing or whatever. Just we're talking about
his like rolodex maybe or his whatever it is. Maybe
that one innocent there's one or you know, one hundred
innocent people completely not touching any of the gnarly stuff
that he did. But then there's other people in there
that were and and I think proving that is such
a difficult thing, especially when you've got witness statements as
(25:25):
some of your primary documentation, right, some of your primary evidence.
Having to having to prove it proving that Prince Andrew,
a prince, a royal person, did these things. It's a
tall milkshake. I think again, when it comes to the
superpowers that somebody like a Prince Andrew has when it
comes to money and influence and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah, folks, think of it this way.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Let's say you are a pretty successful drug dealer, right,
Let's see your street level drug dealer. Uh, you that
as your primary means of income. A lot of the
folks that you have on one of your phones are
going to be affiliated with your primary vocation. But then
(26:08):
an equal, if not greater number of people, depending on
how you set up your burners, they're just going to
be folks, you know, like just your friends from college
or your family members and stuff like that. So you
can't look at a list like this and immediately make
the leap to saying that all these folks are guilty
(26:29):
by association. In fact, guilt by association is a huge
fallacy that the court systems try to avoid. So, even
though it is very tempting, I think to hear about
a famous person on one day's list and say, well,
I already didn't like the guy, so I know he's guilty.
Even though that is tempting, that's not how the law
(26:51):
does or should work.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Agreed, well, and think about the public perception if there
was one attempted prosecution of somebody and it turned out
that that person or they could not prove that that
person had anything to do with it, and they fail
in court to actually prosecute right, think about what that
would do to not only public perception, but how it
would weaken any further cases of attempting to prosecute people
(27:16):
who were a part of this.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Let's also point out a statement from CBS News. Their
legal analyst, Ricky Kleiman, said something that I think gets
the heart of this, noting that many of the names
in these documents are quote of innocent people. It's people
who may have been employed. It's people who may have
gone to dinner or to a cocktail party at Jeffrey
Epstein's home. It's not necessarily naming people who have engaged
(27:40):
in actions that were anything like the deplorable actions of
Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell. Think of everybody you have
met in your life up to now. Imagine if any
one of them committed a crime and you were listed
as someone who knew, met or was in the same
room as them at some point, do you think that
(28:03):
makes you automatically guilty. I hope not, because, like most
of us, I.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Met a lot of people. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
This is this is also this problem, I would argue,
is exacerbated because he is functioning Jeffrey Epstein's functioning in
relatively rarefied air. A lot of people at this level
of the socioeconomic pyramid or hierarchy, whatever you want to
call it. They know each other. They have a lot
of stuff in common. Of course, they were going to
(28:33):
run into each other, you know, I mean even all
the US presidents, even the ones who don't personally like
each other, they hang out, They know each other. They
kick it because they have so much in common with
each other despite their differences. And that's kind of what
happens when you get to a certain level of finance.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, it is true. Should we just go over like
some more of these individuals.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
They're not all really named jay Do. No, No, that's
kind of a monarcher. We talked about Prince Andrew, who
for a brief moment, looked like he was going to
get in some kind of actual trouble what normal people
would call trouble.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
There's a really interesting article you can read called could
Queen Elizabeth have stopped Prince Andrew's BBC interview from airing?
That was published I think today or yesterday as we're
recording this on April fourteenth, and it's in Town and
Country magazine, And it is a very interesting just concept
(29:37):
of like, could could the Queen back in the day
when she was still alive, could she have prevented Prince
Andrew from actually going on the BBC and talking about
this that whole like sweating thing.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Remember, that's like the is the legal framework there.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Exactly exactly, but it's just interesting context in that if
you want to jump through that.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
And before we move on, Prince Andrew is a whole
other story. He did settle a lawsuit with his primary
accuser while the entire time denying any involvement or having
ever met her or anything like that. His attorney said, quote,
(30:17):
Prince Andrew regrets his association with Epstein and commends the
bravery of the survivor, Virginia Geffrey Geffrey and other survivors
in standing up for themselves and others.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
Wow, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, No, don't like it very much either. Let's just
go ahead and talk about Brooklinn. Let's do it. Let's
get it out of the way.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Famous amateur saxophonist Bill Glinn.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, governor of Arkansas, who didn't know anything about what
was going on in Mina in the airport there with
the drugs and the CIA, and didn't know anything about
what was the other.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Scandal, factor eight exporting hepatitie and HIV around the world.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah, he had no idea.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
He had no idea that you know, what was going
on with mister Epstein and miss Maxwell. He just didn't
no idea.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
He was just he was like, I'll take a free
jet you know what I mean, a free jet ride.
I should say his name is on manifest for the
private jet he had taken. Four trips have been documented,
and their response to this, because the Clintons did respond,
was that these trips were in connection with the work
(31:34):
of the Clinton Foundation.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh yeah, don't forget. Hillary was there too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Hillary Rodham Clinton was also there. Not an amateur saxophonist,
but former Secretary of State, almost president, almost president once
upon a time, and Clinton neither. No one in the
Clinton family or political dynasty has at this point been
officially accused of any crimes related to the Epstein abuse empire.
(32:02):
Twenty nineteen, Clinton released a statement denying all knowledge, like
we said, of any trafficking, abuse or related villainy. As
far as the mechanics of willful ignorance or the ins
and outs of plausible deniability, that is, I think that's
(32:25):
up for phi philosophical and legal debate, is it not?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
It is most certainly.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Oh, but he's not the only president. As we said,
fans of Home Alone Two Lost in New York, you
probably remember Donald Trump. He's I would say, most famous
for his cameo in that In that film, he was
also president for a time. He is currently busy in
court for a totally totally different thing.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I don't know. It's financial right racization.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So maybe that's New York Manhattan financi guys doing what
they're doing. Yeah, who knows. Seems like there was definitely
something going on there. Whether you're a fan of him
or not, it kind of doesn't change the fact that
he's also seems to be pretty involved.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, and of course there were Again, it's the it's
the kind of thing where if you do or don't,
if you already dislike someone when you hear them associated
with something like this, you can immediately and easily make
a logical jump. Oh sure, even when that's not necessarily founded,
I will say. You can hear and you can see
(33:37):
video of Donald Trump dancing with Jeffrey Epstein. You can
you can see that they are they are talking about
each other in public and very friendly terms. Donald Trump
has a quote that did not age well about Epstein.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Oh? No, oh, what was that quote?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
In an article published in New York Magazine on October
twenty eighth, two thousand and two. It's called Jeffrey Epstein
International Moneyman of Mystery. And in this article, the reporter
speaks with Donald Trump and Trump says, I've known jeff
for fifteen years. He's a terrific guy. He's a lot
(34:24):
of fun to be with. It's even said that he
likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many
of them are on the younger side, No doubt about it.
Jeffrey enjoys his social life.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Hey. You could also find numerous images that have been
taken over the years with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein
posing together, looking real chummy, hanging out and remember, yeah,
Epstein had that palm beach thing. Whyere is maar a lago? Oh?
Really close? So anyway, there's that. There are also numerous
pictures social pictures of at least Bill Clinton with Jeffrey Epstein.
(34:58):
So if you ever like think this is all bs,
these guys are full of it. Like maybe because a
picture of someone hanging out socially with another person, maybe
that's absolutely nothing. Maybe it's literally a business meeting. It
could be that they could. But when I don't know,
when you put it all together and their names get
released in a list the way these guys were, the
(35:22):
dots have been connected.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Also, people are not stupid most people. Again, I know
this sounds naive, but I believe fundamentally that most people
are incredibly intelligent, especially when given the opportunity to digest
information and the access to information.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
So picture it this way, folks.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
What if you have a really wealthy friend who just
happens to live in your neighborhood. Right, he's inviting you
over to parties because he's a neighborly dude, But often
he says, oh, hey, hold up, I'll see later. I
gotta go get a massage. At some point, you have
to wonder how often does this guy get massages, you
(36:00):
know what I mean, even if you're totally not involved
in anything else, right if if like I don't know, man,
it seems kind of hard to ignore.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
If he asks you to get a massage, raise your
hand and be like, no, thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I appreciate the gesture, but I am out. Oh other
people got accused. Michael Jackson. Oh, and David Copperfield. That's
a deep cut.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Remember him the Illusionist?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, I do, I do remember him. I remember.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
State Building.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, I think it's still active in Vegas. I feel
like I remember seeing signs for Copperfield in Vegas while
we were there last time.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It's weird, Yeah, because celebrities and acts that you would
have thought are long retired often they just went to Vegas.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yep, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I mean, maybe that's the excuse we should start giving
kids when a pet passes away. Fluffy's Fluffy is fine.
She's just doing her residency in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Oh, we've been doing this for well over a decade.
Is that where we're gonna end up?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
We can end up in Vegas. Oh, man, it's just stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
They don't want you to know. We're just in a
like darkened corner in a casino somewhere and we every day. Yeah,
welcome back to this evening's episode of stuff. Right, don't
want you to know.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
We've got a tiger.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Now, we'll just what we'll do to jazz up the show.
We'll just use all the leftover props in accoutrement from
acts in the past.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Oh, that's great, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
We'll get them to drop by.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
We'll check on whichever Osmond is still in action and
just have them like walk on stage like, hey, one
of the Osmond's, Dude, it writes itself, it rights itself, agreed,
And these depositions speak of writing and they seem kind
of damning too. In the David Copperfield situation, one of
(37:56):
the survivors of abuse is asked did Field, being David Copperfield,
ever discussed Jeffrey's involvement with young girls like you, to
which to which the person responds quote. He questioned me
if I was aware that girls were getting paid to
find other girls going to the networking aspect, because you
(38:16):
mentioned Galley Maxwell searching for people who fit this demographic
of abuse. They would also offer to pay girls to
bring their friends over and to bring them into the trafficking.
It's just dirty stuff, man, And I guess we should
also point out I hate that it's true, but it
(38:38):
is important for us to note because of the heinous
and unclean nature of this conspiracy. There were opportunists who
would photo shop or construct fake images that appeared to
have somebody next to Galaine Maxwell or Efrey Epstein, and
(39:02):
it became for a time it became pretty difficult to
suss out which of those were true and which of
those were fakes. And all we can say is thank
goodness this happened before the huge advent of the deep fake.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Oh yeah, there are also non credible accusations coming out
all the time. There was one really recently involving Disney
something crazy.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
It made the rounds on TikTok, and the headline was
that Disney is buying Epstein's Island and making a theme
park on it, which is just you know, not happening
at all. That was put out by a satire parody site, which,
you know, so many things that get circulated on social
(39:48):
media now originate either a satire parody. Somebody shares it
without context, I'm assuming because they don't know like and
maybe an older person who doesn't know how the internet
works post it and then somebody else sees it like
oh what, oh my god, and then they start posting.
But yeah, that, at least as of right now, doesn't
(40:09):
appear to be true.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I'm I'm this is Gallows humor. But I'm only laughing
because I'm remembering a bit from Shane Gillis's one of
his stand up specials where he's talking about what he
called He's like, he's talking about how his dad drinks
a lot and then watches the news and it's the
worst way to watch the news while you're getting like
kind of tanked on beer or whatever. And so he's
(40:32):
he's dozing off and he hears some news like rockets
are being fired in the Middle East, and.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
He's like, huh, what's going on there? Man?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
And then he has to just find the person who
is unfortunately closest to him physically at that moment and
try to repeat the story back to him. Shout out
to Shane Gillis, By the way, he's fantastic stand up.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh yeah, very interesting fellow. A lot of people find
him was super controversial. I don't know. I think he's
a hell.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
I don't know much about him, to be honest. I
saw two stand up specials, I want to say, but
apparently he made some I think he was on Saturday
Night Live. But he did some really out of pocket stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Well stuff that people are offended by. But again, like
he's a comedian. He got hired to host SNL. He
said some stuff. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you do.
I thought it was funny.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
All right, there we go, you know, speaking of segues,
let's go back to the horror show that is this list.
You can read kind of a dubious who's who of
famous people on these lists or pulled from these court documents. Again,
there hasn't been a publicized comprehensive like smoking Gun, Little
(41:51):
Black Book. I Jeffrey Epstein am writing this, and here's
the list of people that did evil stuff. What you
can see is again all just from these court documents.
And in January twenty twenty four, writing for The Independent,
Alex Ross and EO. Dodds published a pretty extensive list
of like globally notable figures, including Alan Dershowitz, a lawyer
(42:16):
and a media pundit. He's listed as being in close
association with Epstein. He's been accused of participating in this
trafficking or in the abuse of children. But the question
here is a little different with this guy because Matt,
we both know he represented Epstein as his legal counsel.
(42:40):
You would naturally hang out with your clients as legal counsel, right,
that's your job.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Well, yeah, some attorneys will not socialize with their clientele
in that way, So that's.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
But like in a business meeting sense.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yes, yes, you will have those all the time, right,
even if it's nowadays, if it's just remote, you're gonna
have these meetings all the time. But you know, when
you're in those circles, those I keep calling them superpowered circles,
like those kind where you exist on that elevation, I imagine
that those social interactions are probably higher.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, you're ware like you're you're hanging out and you know,
you're you're grilling tigers, you're wearing your snow leopard assless
chaps or whatever, and then you're drinking the adrenochrome and
you're like, have we lost touch of come in?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Man?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well, we talked about how most of that stuff's not real,
but the stuff that is real is the folks hanging
out at the country club right grabbing, you know, a
couple of holes in the golf course, or hanging out
at a restaurant that most people can't get into.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, Bohemian Grove is real. But I want to go
back to this too. Man, are you telling me that
you don't think at least a few millionaires have eaten Tiger?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, sure, statistically, yeah, at least a few.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Come on, man, they might not have a regular day
of it, but they did it.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I just feel bad for the personal chefs or whoever's
having to prepare it. That's awful.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, I feel bad for the tiger, but yeah, the
chefs as well. I mean, look, there's also we talked
about this too. There's Leslie Wexner, the tycoon of Victoria's Secret.
He has a long running association with Epstein that paved
the way for the launch of his financial empire, and
their real estate dealings get very shisty very quickly. And
(44:33):
then there are other honorable mentions. Matt, before we go
to an ad break, is it cool if we just
laundry list off a few more people who have been
mentioning these court documents.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Sure, there's Leo. Leo was in there. Leonardo DiCaprio, M.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, it was Richard Branson, which is weird because he
has an airline.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Al Gore, I did not expect Naomi Campbell to be
on there.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Surprise for me as well. Honestly, I guess Bill Gates
should have not been a surprise because he's so wealthy.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
And then, like other sleeper I hesitate to call him
sleeper hits, but like Kate Blanchett, Heidi Kloom Gloom Club,
I'm not plugged in Klum.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
It's glum clue.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
And then Chris Tucker, which really bums me out.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah I loved Friday.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well yeah, yeah, just really, that's upsetting Chris, if you're
really on there and that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Former Prime Minister of Israel, Hud Barak, Kevin Spacey, Stephen Hawking,
the like, the list goes on. We're gonna pause for
a word from our sponsor and we'll we'll dive into
more of these allegations.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Okay, we're back. Let's jump to the new stuff coming
to us from why this It's upsetting on a number
of levels for me to talk about this. First, let's
talk about targeted advertising and what can happen when your
phone is being served targeted ads and or is being
(46:19):
prepared to be served targeted ads. This is from a
Wired article titled Jeffrey Epstein's Island Visitors Exposed by Data Broker,
published on March twenty eighth, twenty twenty four. You can
find it right now, and let's just here's a quote
from it. It's about how this works. Before a targeted
(46:40):
advertisement appears on an APPAA website, phones and other devices
send information about their owners to real time bidding platforms
and add exchanges, frequently including users' location data and other
personal information about them, sometimes low level personal information. It
depends often on basically what you've allowed your carrier to
(47:05):
track and send. While advertisers can use this data to
inform their bidding decisions. Again, for those targeted advertisements, companies
like the one we're going to talk about right now,
Near Intelligence that's the name, which is a funny name,
isn't it. Near Intelligence. It will siphon, repackage, analyze, and
sell all of that data, including your location data. So
(47:30):
this outfit Near Intelligence got a hold of location tracking data.
That's associated with these targeted advertisements or the data for them.
And they collected almost two hundred mobile devices of people
who definitely confirmed visited that island of Jeffrey Epstein's Island,
(47:52):
and then they tracked them forwards and backwards in time
from their time on that island as well as their
movements on the island health and it is crazy the
precision that this data has to it of where these
people went. There are coordinates that pinpoint within a a
(48:12):
several centimeters of space, if that makes sense. So what
they ended up being able to do is compile all
of this stuff together from as early as July twenty
sixteen to the final date of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest on
July sixth, twenty nineteen. So that's that's about what three
(48:33):
years there of tracking data, and they tracked it to
individual homes, to mansions to here we go. Let's see
to one hundred and sixty six locations throughout the United
States before and after they visited Little Saint James Island.
There are eleven two hundred and seventy nine coordinates that
(48:57):
were then you know, they were tract and then were
obtained by wired and written about it. Also points to Ukraine,
the Cayman Islands, Australia, and again, as we mentioned previously,
Europe was not shown in any of that tracking data
because of their privacy laws. This is just very crazy.
(49:18):
Oh eighty cities, eighty cities in Florida, Massachusetts, Texas, Michigan,
and New York at the very top.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Yeah, in terms of like frequency of travel.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, and you can also you can also cross reference
some of that with like flight plans. But this is
a higher fidelity of accuracy, I would say, if that's
not too redundant, and we know there are more questions
out there. It's so creepy that this news had somewhat
(49:53):
faded into the background a lot of times, right to
the point where it's kind of like Edward Snowed or
Julian Assange. You have to go look for these stories
until a big court case pops up. You know, it
might surprise a lot of us listening tonight that there
has been very little in the way of additional prosecution
(50:14):
against or investigation into individuals other than Galley Maxwell and
Jeffrey Epstein. There has been a lot of chatter, a
lot of real time conspiracy folklore, formation, tons of rumors.
You know, there's another thing that stuck out to me
in that December twenty twenty three court order revealing the
(50:36):
names of these various jay does the judge Presca said
the following quote. The people whose names are to be disclosed,
including sexual abuse victims, litigation witnesses, Epstein's employees, and even
some people with only a passing connection to the scandal,
have until January first to appeal the order. This essentially
(51:00):
gave anyone in the documents two weeks fourteen days to
appeal a decision to name them publicly. So we still
have to wonder, you know, where the people had their
legal team on the ball and just said, hey, keep
me out of it. I mean, some people clearly took
something like a nothing to hide kind of stance, like
(51:22):
the Clintons are on record, you know, not attempting to
erase their names and also providing a public statement. I
just I don't know, man, the back and forth. Sometimes
the Internet gets so abstract that it feels as though
people are forgetting these crimes are real things and they
(51:43):
happen to real people who survived and carry that trauma.
You know, I wish we could say there was justice,
and I guess there is justice of the sort. Glame
Maxwell is locked up. We know Epstein did not act alone.
And if there was a larger child abuse network at
play that was you know, very active and organized, then
(52:07):
what happened to the rest of them? Why why aren't
they in court?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I think this is why I'm bringing up that data
from the location tracking, because it's it. We actually have
the information now. The specific to a centimeter tracking shows
exactly where people live and generally who they are, probably
at all likelihood, because there are several maps that were
generated that include common evening locations for each device, in
(52:34):
common daytime locations for each device like pinpointed. The problem
is Wired is like they've reproduced several images of the maps,
but they're super generalized because if you actually looked at
the tracking data for an individual device, you could say, oh,
oh my gosh, uh, this is speculating, but that is
(52:57):
Bill Clinton's like phone, that's that's his place of residence,
and that's you know, here is where he was on
this date and all this other stuff or whatever for
an appearance, and you could I think a law enforcement
would have to come through and take that data and
have to have a reason to use that data to
(53:18):
try and you know, basically bring someone else in on charges.
Otherwise it's still kind of accusations. And it doesn't matter
if you've got evidence of this specific evidence of someone
traveling to an island, because that just travel to that
island doesn't prove anything. Right, So we've actually got a
(53:39):
we have the data, it's just we maybe can't use it,
or an organization like Wired and other media outlets are
not going to use it because it could potentially be
a legal firestorm of biblical proportions.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
And then there are other possible intervening variables, and I
think that point was well said Matt. There are other
possible variables, such as the idea that there is evidence
that appears to have vanished, right, multiple survivors, multiple eyewitnesses
are saying there were collections of photographs of CSAM or
(54:17):
child sexual abuse material, possibly video, we don't know where
it is. And then maybe the most tenuous thing, but
still a very real thing, is the possible intelligence connection.
Because Robert Maxwell Glaine's father had his fingers in a
lot of things, and he has been alleged over time
(54:38):
to have connections with multiple intel ops, most notably Masad,
and this naturally prompted the question, founded or unfounded, as
to whether Epstein was perpetrating this unclean conspiracy in service
to some other power, just because he was himself a
(55:01):
diseased individual, but because he was being actively instructed to
get dirt on people.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Well, yeah, okay, let's go back to ninety six. The
first time that the FBI hears about this guy, or
at least what we think is probably the first time
the FBI is really made aware of Jeffrey Epstein and
the possible activities that he's partaking in. Do you think
that is a even though nothing happened, right, there was
no investigation, nothing happened because of those allegations. Do you
(55:33):
think there's a possibility that someone within the FBI was
alerted because of his status in society in Manhattan and
was potentially reached out to or maybe I don't want
to say the FBI would threaten anybody, but you might,
you know, strike up a conversation with somebody at a
very high class bar and just say, hey, Jeff heard
(55:55):
you get into X or whatever, and then just lightly
threats and tim and got him to start working for
them because It could happened way back in the nineties.
I think maybe not. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
It could have happened before the nineties. It would have
happened during Bear Stearns. It could have happened to a
Dulton school saying hey, we'll set you up with something.
I mean, that's the thing could have is not the
same as did but you're absolutely right, there is. If
something like this happens, the order of operations could be
in any specific sequence. Right Yeah, Catching someone and leveraging
(56:29):
them is something law enforcement does.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
But would they do that to this degree?
Speaker 2 (56:33):
All right, Yeah, who knows? We just again we The
one thing we do know is that a previous head
of the FBI sure did like to get dirt on
people and store it in his office and make sure
he could pull those triggers if he needed to. Old
Hoover himself. I mean, it's just a real thing, and
it I don't think he was the last head of
(56:55):
an intelligence agency and or a very powerful organization like
that would be interested in having someone like Epstein functioning
to bring in these powerful people, get dirt on them,
and then have some kind of either real or perceived
control over them.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Right Yeah, absolutely, and neither. If that happened, this would
not be the first, would also not be the last.
This stuff continues, and we can't wait to hear your thoughts, folks.
One thing that we always want to end on we're
talking about this sort of stuff. To be very clear,
when we're bringing up these questions, exploring these crimes and
the possible connections, we are in no way downplaye dismissing,
(57:35):
nor ignoring the very real trauma suffered by victims. If
you take nothing else with you from this, listen closely. Please,
if you are someone you know as a victim of trafficking,
do not hesitate to reach out to the authorities. If
you are in a situation where you think local authorities
may be corrupt. Remember in the US and abroad, there
(57:56):
are national level resources to assist you. Here in the US,
you can contact National Human Trafficking Hotline. You can leave
an anonymous tip at their website, human Trafficking Online dot org.
You can also contact them at the following number one
eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight. Again
that's one eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight.
(58:19):
Be safe, folks, and we're going to unfortunately have to
continue following this and updating it, and Matt, I'm right
there with you. I hope that the data broker information
leads to more answers, because the deeper we dig it
just seems we're finding more questions.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Oh yeah, Well, in that company Near Intelligence, the one
that collected all that location data, or at least bought
it and used it and then released it, they are
under crazy scrutiny, crippled by debt. There's all kinds of
stuff going on. Even US senators like Ron Wyden are
trying to launch investigations into that company right now for
(58:58):
what is it fencing sensitive location data and all this
other I mean, which again is a whole other subject, right,
that's a whole episode, probably just talking about how data
brokers use location data for targeted advertising. We've talked about
targeted advertising before as a whole, but that is a problem,
that is a real problem when it comes to privacy,
(59:19):
which is what is the thing you always say about privacy, Ben.
Speaker 3 (59:22):
Yeah, privacy as a modern concept is kind of a fad.
It's very much an endangered species. Your privacy is eroding
bit by bit as you listen to this episode. We're
not going to be part of the grift obviously, but
we do want and need your help.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Oh for sure, we do. You can reach out to
us a bunch of ways. One thing I would recommend
before before you take off, read the Vanity Fair article
that was written in two thousand and three by Vicky Ward.
It's talent. It's titled The Talented Mister Epstein, and it
really goes into his life and his connections with these billionaires, multimillionaires,
(01:00:04):
flying them around on his seven to twenty seven and
all of his socialite life stuff before he was known
to have done anything, at least publicly. And if you
watch there's an episode of sixty Minutes Australia by Tara
Brown and it goes into depth with Vicky Ward, the
person who wrote that article for Vanity Fair, about how
(01:00:27):
she was in contact with people who were making allegations
back in two thousand and three. But Epstein showed up
at the editor's office of Vanity Fair and basically shut
down all those allegations but still allowed this big pr
piece to go through for him.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
And if you'd like to read the court papers, we're
mentioning fans of primary sources, if you'd like to read
those documents in full. You can find them very easily
over at the Guardian the headline Unsealed Jeffrey Epstein court papers,
Read document in full. Heads up, folks, it is legally
ease if you would like to hear more sources, because
(01:01:03):
God knows, we have a ton too many to list
in the show today, do check out our past episodes again,
we have a lot of them on this as the
investigations continued. You can also contact us directly for more
information and you know, contact us pretty old thing if
you want to send us a pun, if you want
to suggest a new episode, or just.
Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Follow up with how you doing? Little letter from home.
We love all of that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
You can find us on Instagram, You can find us
on YouTube all the platform jazz. You can also give
us a call directly.
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yes, our number is one eight three three st DWYTK.
When you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself
a cool nickname and let us know if we can
use your name and message on the air. If you've
got more to say they can fit in that three
minute message. Why not instead send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
We are the folks who read every single email we get.
Be well, aware fellow conspiracy realist sometimes avoid writes back
conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
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