April 24, 2025 • 51 mins
Privacy Guy continues the conversation about encryption and state-level powers. Art Vandelay notes recent issues with tariffs and supply chains. Multiple Conspiracy Realists follow up with Ben and the gang on the actions of an insurance-adjacent business called Evicore. All this and more in this week's listener mail segment.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Noel.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
They called me ed.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We're joined as always with our super producer, Dylan the
Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
And with great thanks to our pal, Dylan the Tennessee
pal Fagan, we like to start our weekly listener Mail
(00:50):
segment with a little bit of a sound cue Dylan,
what do we have rudebago wise?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Yes, oh my god.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
It's always real on listener mail. We keep it real
on listener now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I played that song for I don't even notice if
it was for marching band or orchestra or something in
high school, and I specifically remember playing that song over
and over and over.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
I can see that being a rock and marching band arrangement.
Let's say opportunities for snare cadences.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Right, Yeah, it's got some high dramatic stakes Lyrically, it's.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
It's cool from a writing perspective at school, because you know,
we all have probably heard that you're not supposed to
make a request and then end it with comma, no
worries if not, So it's a little more powerful to
say or let's forget about.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It, or else. I always read it as or else,
forget about it.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
I don't know, I just remember this part.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Speaking of beautiful, we are
joined with several friends and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realists from
across the globe. That's right, we forget sometimes, but we
aren't technically a global show. At this point, we're going
to talk a little bit about the amazing and quite
(02:19):
disturbing correspondence we received regarding our prior or authorizations conspiracy episode.
We're gonna have letters from home. We're going to we're
going to dive into a story pertaining to one of
the weirdest comic strips of yesteryear?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Is it Family Circus?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Oh? Even more yesteryear? Yester year? Were I like the maps?
Did you like the maps? Sometimes they would publish a
Family Circus would publish just a one panel thing, which
was a traced map of the kid walking around.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No I don't think I saw that.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
I think this is a radio play, by the way,
or a radio series.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
By the way, but it's called Billy's Travels.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
It's a whole series in family circus where it's just
Billy have an adventure, is following a wiggly.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Line cartography fans unite and Matt to your point, I
believe the story we're talking about, yes, did begin as
a radio show, so we're gonna pay some deference to
our roots, but it's much more than that. We're also
going to talk about tariffs. Before we do any of that,
we're going to take a brief pause for word from
(03:34):
our sponsors, and we're going to hear from a returning guest.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
And we're back with today's first piece of listener.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Mail from Reply Guy. I'm just joking.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
It's Privacy Guy. Privacy Guy, Isn't that right, Ben? That's
what he goes by. You guys have corresponded quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah, that's the moniker we bestowed upon the Privacy Guy,
and we do you dig it.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
He's very very very well versed on all things tech
when it comes to surveillance, state type stuff, encryption, et cetera.
And he had a really, really excellent response to our
discussion about the signal incidents, of course, where high level
members of the Trump administration were found to be using
a publicly available app for sending war correspondence or plans.
(04:28):
That was sort of eves dropped on by a journalist
from the Atlantic. And when I say Eves dropped, I'm
using that term very loosely because he was of course
invited to the chat. Well, that story seems to have
taken a backseat to a lot of other shenanigans in
the news.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I do think it's.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
Important to talk a little bit about the idea of
what Signal as an app actually is and a distinction
with it and another app that I mentioned called Telegram,
which purports to be a very similar app to Signal
but has a lot of dirty launch and baggage. And
our buddy privacy guy has a bit of a bone
(05:04):
to pick with them and with me, and I'm totally
here for it. Good morning, gentlemen. Just finished listening to
your strange news segment published March thirty first about the
signal incident, and I have a few things I need
to say. First off, I do not want to admit
to my bias. I like Signal a lot. I do
have a fair bit of criticism with them, but it's
mostly nitpicky stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And again this is.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
Coming from someone who's very well versed in this world
this type of software, very expert level awareness of what's
going on in the world of encryption and encryption apps, etc.
So just keep that in mind when you're hearing some
of these beefs. I think they're a solid service that
does great work, and I've gotten all my friends and
family using them. So first off, he says, Matt set up,
(05:46):
but pretty sure it was me because I was talking
about how I have used Telegram in the past and
how it was my understanding that it was quote basically like.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Signal with the end to end encryption. Politely, he says.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
No, I think could be further from the truth. Second,
biased to admit, I can despise Telegram, but I have
receipts to back up my grudge. First off, Telegram is
not to end encrypted by defaults and privacy guy, I
had heard that after the fact. I remember when the
Telegrams CEO, a French gentleman, was arrested very publicly, and
(06:23):
all this news was being made about him and his
role in the way the app functions in some of
the maybe less than transparent advertisement and claims made around
the app, and also its use as a tool for
selling contraband selling illegal narcotics, et cetera. And we also
pointed out, I believe in a previous discussion on that matter,
(06:45):
how any app available, any communication device has the potential
to be used for nefarious purposes, and it is not
inherently the fault of the proprietors of said you know
service that it is being used that way. If there
is a communication to be had, people are going to
use it for all kinds of things that were maybe
(07:06):
not intended by the nature of the app. But to backtrack,
Telegram is not and to end encrypted by default you
have to manually enable it, which is a complicated process
that can only be done on mobile devices. So most
users have a false sense of security about the safety
of their messages, not like it matters because Telegram's encryption
(07:26):
is so trash that experts repeatedly warned against using it,
and these cites multiple sources for this claim. To their defense,
they did eventually upgrade to m Proto two, which I
assume as an encryption standard, and I have seen one
paper saying looks sound quote unquote, but A that was
only one paper. I've never seen any other audits or
(07:50):
reviews of the cryptography since. And B even that one
paper openly admitted this was a very cursory glance, and
we haven't dug in deep. Last, but not least, however,
Telegram overtly lied.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
To users for years.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
For years, Telegram's website proudly stated to this day, we
have shared zero bites of user data with any third parties,
including governments, after they've actually shared data thousands of times now.
To be clear, I expect companies to comply with legal orders.
Signal has, Proton has Proton Mail, as I believe in
(08:26):
encrypted email service. Maybe they have other wings of that service,
but I've always heard of it as being like a
kind of a really really tightly encrypted Gmail alternative.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Proton has nearly everyone does.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
I also expect companies not to fking lie about it
and then gaslight their users. Telegram's website has since been
updated to say today we have shared zero bytes of
user messages with any third parties. Tricky tricky, including governments
regarding Signal and Proton complying It's also worth noting that
(09:01):
they never have anything of value to turn over because
of their privacy and security. But that's a very good
point as to why Telegram would have those things. It
speaks to the misconception that you are pointing out here,
privacy guy, I wouldn't recommend Telegram to anyone for anything.
Between shoddy security and constantly lying to and gaslighting their users,
(09:23):
it's got more red flags than a Chinese flag factory.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's funny.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
Sources for all of these claims full disclosure, that's me
and my podcast, and yes, I'm being an insufferable. One
of the sources he cited is his own podcast where
he's apparently being an insufferable. But hey, self awareness is
the first step towards recovery. But only because these claims
have been verifiable for years, and the Telegram fanboys would
still come into our comment section and dig their heels
(09:51):
in and argue with us despite the fact that we
would cite our sources. And then a question for Ben second,
would I would want to ask Ben about his claims
against Signal Twice been made the assertion that Signal can
be cracked by governments. I know you said something to
the effect that what's official and what's true behind closed
doors are very different, and I think that's exactly the point.
(10:12):
Ben and I agree, but this claim seems false. However,
I respect been a lot and is normally very much
on point with these sorts of things. Would be worth
a quick follow up, which we will certainly do momentarily.
Hopefully none of that came off too aggressive, at least
not against you. I'm already on record being hostile towards
Telegram or angry at you, which I'm not.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But I hope that cleared up a few things. Last thing,
I think this is worth mentioning.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
PS On your recent episode with Denise Chan, you guys
recommended one way to avoid scams is to go find
the right phone numbers independently, rather than trusting the ones
provided to you.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, this is a great.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
Idea, Sadly these days, it has a couple caveats.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
First, don't trust the AI summaries. We don't, I swear.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
We covered a story recently about how scammers managed to
push a malicious phone number into the AI summary. I
was unable to find that story again, but I did
find this story about a guy who tried to vet
a phone number for Meta with metas Ai, and it
falsely assured him that the phone number was legit. Also,
listeners should definitely start using ad blockers as Another common
(11:11):
scam is to use malicious ads called malvertizing new one
on me to create fake websites, either for phishing log
in credentials or to trick people with fake phone numbers.
Even the FBI now recommends ad blocking as a cybersecurity measure.
I personally encourage U block Origin. It's available on all browsers,
though Chrome has recently severely handicapped it. We were just
(11:33):
talking off air about how maybe it's time to check
back in with Firefox.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
That was you bet.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Yet another reason to stop using Chrome is open source
and blocks more than just ads, trackers and malicious domains
as well. Plus other well known ad blockers are known
to whitelist advertisers for payment. Alternately, you can switch to
Brave we talked about, which has a built in ad blocker,
but does whitelist ads on their search engine.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Of course, a lot of good.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Information there, Privacy guy, I am getting rid of Telegram immediately,
but to the point of signal having the potential for
being cracked, I wonder if we might discuss that a
little bit at Privacy Guy's request.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Sure. Yeah, First, privacy Guy, thank you so much for
calling me quote normally really smart and knowing my stuff.
End quote. And they'll thank you for calling me on
point this is I was paraphrasing as this is a
this is a great thing that you wrote to us
about Privacy Guy, because I responded back, we did need
(12:35):
to be more clear on this point, in particular, without
going too into the signal seaweeds, I was indeed referring
to the rarefied air of state level malware like Vegas's
or Paragon, and to a lesser degree, the good old
fashioned social engineering aspects. And we wanted to make sure
(12:59):
we get this out to the world because you know,
it's no I'd love that you pick this because it's
it's such a great point right now from what we understand,
without the deployment of those very sophisticated high level programs signal,
even at the federal level, the the authorities in the
(13:21):
US can get the day and time user registered, the
last date of a user's connection with the service, but
they cannot get the actual content of the messages.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Unless you get invited to a chat group in.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Which we can't be kind of like social engineering.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Well, that's what I was getting to bet, and I
think to your point, you can crack just about anything
through old fashion methods, you know, is by like sneaking
a peek over someone's shoulder when they're I mean, like,
let's think about that.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That is a form of cracking. Again.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
I know, privacy guy here is coming at this very
much from the point of view of cyber security of hacking,
but we just recently did an episode about Russian sleeper agents,
and so many of the techniques deployed with that kind
of stuff is just good old fashioned spying, using your
eyes and biting your time and maybe getting someone's password,
(14:16):
you know, through analog.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Means that is absolutely away.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
The point being that these types of conversations that we're
talking about here should probably be held in like a skiff,
one of those information isolated spaces that are heavily monitored
and that are designed for very specific types of conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Doing anything on.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
A publicly available app that is potentially on your phone
just feels like an absolute can of worms, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Tut tut, It's a bag of unfortunate badgers. There's another
point because we are, as Lil said, paraphrasing you a
bit privacy guy, and I am a fan of your show.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
What's the name of a show? Can we shout it out?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That is valence reports. So another point that we were
talking about Privacy Guide was the idea that I think
the public needs to be more aware of the theoretical
capability to deploy things like Pagasus or Paragon is way
(15:19):
different from actually using it because we often forget. We're
saying this in correspondence. We can all see we can
often forget that a lot of state agencies that would
be using these programs they're continually running up against budget constraints,
their internal turf wars and so on. You know, I
always imagine our poor NSA intern Steve, reading our emails
(15:43):
and going, oh my god, you guys, I have to
get through four hundred more of these before lunch. Do
we have it in the budget? I'm a contractor. So
we have to understand that it's devilishly easy for our valid,
well earned paranoia and cins to at times impede critical thought.
(16:04):
Signal does seem pretty secure unless you do some extra
special moves.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, guys, Can we talk about the other thing that
was brought up, ad blockers. Yes, so as a human
being that experiences the Internet and things that have lots
of ads in them, yes, ad blockers all day. But
it does feel like there's a whole lot of industry
online that is built on the fact that human beings
(16:31):
will see and hear ads.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I don't know how to feel about it, because I
definitely want them and have used them in the past,
but also we do kind of need them, and don't
we want them to be less horrifying because they're like
if you try and look at anything online now, especially
a place that supposedly has stories about the news, sure,
(16:56):
it's the layouts with the ads and what they do.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's it's tear.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
It's almost like the actual story is a caption in
between large blocks of ads. Yeah, yeah, this is off Mic.
We were talking with Dylan, and I want to thank
you Dylan for recommending something. We'd love to hear your
opinion on privacy Guy the browser libre Wolf l I
b r E Wolf. This feels like, I don't know,
(17:23):
like you're saying, it's kind of a pickle because online
advertising is sort of the Achilles Heel of digital monetization.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well, yeah, I don't want the Guardian to go away,
but they have to sell some ads, so it's like,
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Know, yeah, yeah, I still know how to feel about it.
Maybe we should throw to some ads.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
No, I think we should.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Thanks again, privacy guy. We'll be back after a quick
worry from our sponsor with more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And we've returned, and we're jumping to the phone lines
immediately to hear from someone you might recognize the.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Fog roll in object matter.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Who knows what evil in the hearts of men?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Hell yeah, the Shadow knows well, you have seen that
same evil in his.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Own black her.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Nice nailing it, nailing.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Oh and that's all we get.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That's great, it's great. Takes me back to buying cassette
tapes at a cracker barrel to get those old radio place.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Oh nice, nice. Well, I think that I think Viking
was listening to a previous episode and heard us mention
the Shadow, because that is, in fact, I don't know
what you say. The catchphrase the opening line of ye
old nineteen thirties radio program, The Shadow that you can
read about at the Radio Hall of fame. By the way,
(19:07):
it was inducted in nineteen eighty nine. Very very cool.
I want to give you, guys another line that maybe
Viking you could call back in and give us this too.
The weed of crime bears bitter fruit. Crime does not
pay taste gross. Really, that's the only reason I want
(19:31):
to play, guys, because we mentioned it.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
I thought it was cool.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's funny. There's a bit of synchronicity here, Matt, because
I was thinking I was going to go on to
here's where it gets crazy and bring resurrect our old
conversation about choosing superpowers. Would love to hear everybody's favorite superpowers,
and the Shadow does have superpowers without getting too into
the lore. I love how he can what is it.
(19:56):
He can sort of aggressively hypnotize people. He can men's minds,
you know, with internal shadows. That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So people can't see him. He's there the whole time,
He's right there, but they have no idea.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It'd be great to hear. It'd be great to hear
like a new adaptation of The Shadow. I know it's
a franchise now. There were some recent comic book adaptations,
but it'd be great to hear like a world where
the shadows invisibility or obscuring powers apply to the digital
(20:31):
world as well, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah,
that'd be kind of cool.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So shout out to Frank Frank Readick, who was the
original Shadow, and also shout out to Orson Wells, who,
at twenty two years old, began playing the Shadow.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
No way, Yes, pretty awesome radio.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
The Radio history for your ears. There you go check
out the Radio Hall of Fame. It's awesome, by the way, Yes,
so cool. All right, guys, jump into the next thing.
That is not what you're expecting, but I'm going to
play it very quickly here just for giggles.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Here we go.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
I want you to know this is stuff I don't
want to spend. What's driving my car to next kit
for a wedding kept playing bubble Beat Tuna in a
very specific.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Manner that made me think that you.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Also enjoyed as certain Jim Carrey movie from the nineties.
And I just I mean, I just the nods, wink, nudge,
it's all there.
Speaker 9 (21:33):
From this time of the table.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
That's where you're going. If not, you're just enjoying the names,
then Rock On's brother, but kind of.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
I got a curri vibes. That's all. Okay, I'm gonna
go now.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Back nonsense Poopy Pence.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Sorry, well.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's right, and you must be the monopoly guy. It's
in the bone, it's in the bull. These are all
my references from that movie.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
The second Yes, when nature calls, oh.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I got what hippo fotomous right like fo all right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I think it's I think it's actually a rhino.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Ben rhino.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, r rhino is right.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
That's what I get from coming out the wrong end
of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (22:25):
That's it.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You never know what I don't really they don't really
focus on the head too much.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Well, guys, uh I was gonna play a clip of
it because it's so great hearing Jim Carrey as a
Spenta say bumble bee tuna a whole bunch, But the
actual phrasing that comes from a Fulton Green wall, which
is like the the guide basically that is taking a
Spenta through and meeting the tribes. He says bumble way tuna,
(22:51):
bumble way a tuna, and uh Ace believes it is
bumble bee tunas so wonderful.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
How do you think a Ventura would have vibe with
the Sentinel ease?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I was thinking that, and I was afraid to sup
have the thought.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Nothing problematic about that situation.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He would say, bubble bee tuna, ace Ventura, pet detective,
how are you this afternoon? Alrighty, then excuse me, your
balls are showing bubble bee tuna.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
That is verbatim.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
You know this movie to a shocking degree. I'm just
gonna say.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Well, I think it was one of those films in
that Halcyon era where kids of a certain age would
go see that they would say, okay, so this is
my personality.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Now, well that's what funny is. It made me go, oh,
I think whatever this is is hilarious.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
So I really liked him.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Carry he's electric, He's great. I have that for the
first one. I remember him singing out of his butt.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Yes, they refer to that in the second film.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There's a moment when they're in the mansion and they're like,
you know, we don't They're looking for ace Ventura and
the guy says, uh, we don't have names here, we
don't have labels here. He's like the one who talks
out of his butt and he's like, oh right, right
this way.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I do also have some good news for you stuff.
They want you to sandwich here. In addition to all
the great life's life milestones you have met. Uh, dear
conspiracy realist friend and neighbor, ace Ventura three has been
in the works for several shut up, I can't shut
(24:31):
up because I'm telling you the truth. Ace Ventura three
has been uh it's in production limbo for a while,
but apparently they're still kind of wagh in it. It
just depends on, you know, how Jim Carrey's feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just don't know that it blends with the current
zeit geist. I think it's maybe.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Take a different direction, you know, ben the genre a
little bit won't make it? No, make it like a
true attack the thing.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh if it was like really gritty and.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Dark, Yeah, you know what I mean, don't recast pretty crazy?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, Ace Ace is the same. We just have who
is the character from the first True Detective?
Speaker 4 (25:18):
We love Rustle Also quick note to get in front
of the emails. Yes, folks, we realize there is a
Sventura Junior Pet Detective, which is sometimes called the third
ace Ventura, but as purest as people with respect for
the high art of cinema. We're we're holding out for
(25:40):
the Jim Carrey help, Yes, the.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
Way to that point. Son of the Mask? Not really truly,
you've not heard of the Son of the Mask.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
It's so bad, we don't not even in the comics.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, with all of this in mind, let's jump to
a rather more serious listener mail getting out of the
when nature calls vibes here. By the way, A Sventura
is the guy who was trying to attain enlightenment when
he gets that medallion from one of the monks. It
took him like eighty years to get the medallion, and
the monk is like, no, just just take the just
(26:18):
take it and get out here.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
Please. Okay, let's go to Art Vandalay.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
Hey, guys, you can call me Art Vandalay. I just
listened to the tariff episode as I'm commuting into my
supply chain job in the building products industry been around
since before twenty eighteen when Trump laid the first, you know,
heavy hand of tariffs on China, and you know, in our.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Particular space, not only did it increase the price to
import those goods, but also, the capability to produce some
of those goods did not exist outside of China, where
a lot of the innovation of exists. So several companies
started up factories, whether that was in Southeast Asia or
even here in the US. And it's very difficult to
(27:09):
manage when when the rhetoric changes, you know, day by.
Speaker 10 (27:12):
Day, week by week. But I guess, I guess that's
job security, right. So one thing I thought I would
bring up is here, just yesterday, a factory in our
industry based here in the US, just outside of Atlanta,
got raided and suspected of human trafficking. So for all
the all the things that end up in the news,
(27:33):
a lot of folks don't believe it's gonna be gonna
be the ones here in the US.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
So anyways, love the show, appreciate you guys.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Wo okay, And that's referring to the March twenty fifth rate, maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
March twenty fifth, twenty sixth grade.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Yeah, that is well.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I shared just now in the chat a website for
well made floors dot com. And if you head on
over there, you'll find a website filled with well made, waterproof,
premium flooring and vinyl planks and all kinds of dry
back planks and bamboo planks, and it just looks like
a wonderful website with all kinds of great products that
(28:14):
you can put on the bare part of your floor
so now you can walk on it. And this is
the thing that Art Vandala is referring to this specific
company that has this website there, let's say factory, their offices,
whatever the place is. It looks like a giant warehouse,
(28:36):
to be honest, if you look at it from above
or you look at the actual place that got raided.
It got raided, yeah, on Wednesday, March twenty sixth, and
that was the FBI, Homeland Security, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation,
and Bartow County's Sheriff's office all went in because there
(28:57):
were allegations of human and potential sexual servitude that were
being instituted there by human beings that were trafficked from
other countries, and it was happening right around the corner
from US guys. Well, you know, we hear a lot
of things about Atlanta being bad in this area, right.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, international hub of trafficking and a national hub do
at least in part to having the world's busiest airport.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
There you go, there you go exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So let's let's read a little bit from Fox five Atlanta,
one of the local folks near us. They wrote on
March twenty six, twenty twenty five, the day that this
raid occurred, that this was part of a multi year
investigation into labor trafficking, and the company's owner, zoo Chen Zhuche,
and his nephew were both arrested and face charges of
(29:50):
trafficking persons for labor or sexual servitude. And yeah, there
are allegations that victims were brought in from other countries
and forced to live in inadequate conditions and work for
well made for little pay. There were hundreds of employees
at the company and dozens of them are potential victims.
There are stories coming out from people who are interviewed,
(30:13):
because in a situation like this, the FBI and Homeland
Security raid a factory like that or a distribution center,
whatever you want to call it, they raid it. Then
they separate everybody and they interview everybody separately, and some
of those interviews have been leaked. Let's say to the press,
one of those like, we aren't going to say who
(30:33):
this person is, but here is their quote. They have
talked about small living spaces where twelve human beings were
supposed to live in a townhouse situation, and then being
taken by van to this distribution center slash factory to
work for like twelve hour days sometimes longer, then shipped
(30:55):
back and the next group of twelve people that is
now in the house, they just witch between the housing
and the factory and that's like their life essentially for
almost no pay. Just a really messed up situation. You
can read an official US Immigration and Customs Enforcement little
thing that they put out on April fourth about this,
(31:17):
like a pr statement. Essentially, they're saying this operation targeted
allegations of labor trafficking involving foreign nationals, as well as
financial crimes linked to the employer's business practices. Yeah, so
sorry to bring us down there, guys, after all the funness,
but just to point out that there this kind of
thing that we have on this show talked about, you know,
(31:41):
in a lot of other places in other parts of
the world. It does happen here in the US. It
happens in whatever country you are in right now. It
is just a thing we need to tackle and deal with.
And it is not something that can just get stamped out.
This is a multi year investigation that had to go
into you know, potentially freeing some people from some form
(32:03):
of servitude.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Yeah, and this unfortunately can be politicized or can be
used as rationale or increasing erosions of rights and rule
of law. But to that point just made it is
mission critical to realize that human trafficking is a thing,
and it's not always the thing you might see in
(32:27):
films like Take It. It can be much more regional.
It is occurring in all fifty US states to m
degree or another.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, yeah, and we've been talking about ICE and all
the terrible crap they've been getting up to lately, right,
I mean, horrifying stuff. But it's also an organization that
can go through and do this and actually do some
good even though ICE isn't. They are the ones actually
doing the investigation. That's the local Atlanta FBI office, the
Georgia Bureau of Investigation in the Bonto sheriffs as well
(32:59):
as Home Insecurity or HSI. But still thinking about things
as more complicate. Things are always more complicated than whatever
story or news is given you, right, And that's one
of the things we always talk about on this show.
So even something like ice can function for good in
the way USDA is often vilified. Right, it can function
(33:23):
for good. It just depends on who's running it, what
the rules are, well, mostly who's running it, right, like
who is making the rules and enforcing the rules that
are internally enforced in my opinion at least, so.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Say we all, I would imagine, and I love the
point because you're right, we continually return to it. The
hard truth about reality is it takes more than five
minutes or three to five minutes on afternoon news to
explain a situation. All those stories you hear, think of
them like opening a door for you or knocking on
a door for you and saying this a lot. And
(34:02):
I don't want to say, you know what, I don't
care if I sound like a broken record. It's extremely
dangerous to paint with a broad brush with most things.
So thank you so much for bringing this story to
bear our Vandalay and Matt. I think we're going to
see more of these situations, you know, and it's going
to be increasingly politicized, at least over the near term
(34:23):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Oh yeah, all right, And with that, we'll take a
word from our sponsor and we'll be right back with
more messages from you.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And we have returned. This is guys, here's the way
I'm thinking of this. We treat this last part of
our weekly segment as more of a story sharing thing,
because you'll recall we did an episode quite recently on
a third party insurance industry entity called evi Core, or
(35:01):
as its many critics call it, evil Core. Do we
remember that episode?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
How can we forget evil Core?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It really leads an impression, it sure does, Yeah, and
I'd agree with that. We I think we all walked
away somewhat righteously indignant, if not a bit depressed by
the by the state of the situation. And it turns
out a lot of us in the audience felt the
(35:28):
same way. So we're going to share just a couple
of stories from our fellow listeners, some of whom experienced
the hazards of prior authorization, some of whom worked in
the industry in one way or another and also witnessed
this Leviathan in action. So first, let's go to somebody
(35:53):
going with a fantastic name. Are you ready? We're not ready.
It's paint Chip Nachos paints a.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Picture GISs some really mommy, So Paychef.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Nacho says, hello there, thanks for all you do. I'm
writing today to give you a little story about my
experience with prior authorizations through insurance. I have EDS, which
is a rare soft tissue disorder which causes pain and fatigue,
among other things on a daily basis, meaning this is
a chronic condition. Editorializing here, Paychef Nachos continues and says,
(36:29):
I'm on SSDI for my disabilities, as I have many
comorbidities associated with all of this. My doctors put in
referrals left and right to multiple other doctors. Some of
these referrals get denied with the excuse that quote the
patient must discuss a proper medical plan with their doctor
before approval end quote. So some of my doctors wrote
(36:51):
in appeals for me as well as myself, explaining that
my doctor has already wrote out a plan and that's
why I need the referral. A bit of a catch
twenty two for paint Chip Nachos. One of my denials
was for trigger points injections in my muscles to ease
my pain and headaches, which they wrote in as medically necessary.
(37:11):
My insurance came back with a denial, saying they needed
a peer review, which went my doctor, who's already super busy,
has to call my insurance and talk to someone there
in their medical department. When my doctor called, and she
did call twice, no one from my insurance answered the phone,
and they sent a denial due to my doctor not
(37:33):
properly calling for that peer review. I finally got a
series of three procedures approved, even though I need a
series of six for my pain to dissipate from a
six to probably a two to three on the Pain
scale and paint Chip Nachos, check out our earlier work
on the Sackler family to figure out just how fraud
the idea of the pain scale is. Nachos, You continue,
(37:55):
I always wonder why I even pay for insurance if
I'll be not denied necessary procedures. I have so many
doctors that insurance is necessary. But man, oh man, I've
also changed insurance companies. However, this new insurance company doesn't
need any prior authorizations. It'll possibly deny any procedures after
(38:17):
I get them if my doctors don't specifically note that
my procedures are medically necessary. So this leaves me in
the dark until my bill comes in and then this
goes on a little bit. But the thesis statement here
from paint Chip Nachos is that prior authorizations mean nothing
and insurance just wants to keep you sick no matter
(38:40):
what the cost, and then followed up with some very
very kind words. Theare we say teen winded words? That's
for you, paint Chip Nachos. I wanted to pause here
before you go the next one. Guys, does this experience
seem like something that might be common to a lot
of our listeners or perhaps to you in your personal lives.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I've never experienced it for but I can definitely imagine
just by you know, other news stories that will come
out where this very thing is described.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Same.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Yeah, not something that I run across.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Well, I'm glad to here's something you guys have not
personally experienced, and hopefully that remains true in the future.
We'll go to our next one. Papa Ly Papaly, you say,
greetings and salutations. I just finished listening to your episode
on the prior authorizations conspiracy. As a mental healthcare provider,
I'm very much tied to insurance companies. I have also
(39:32):
been doing this long enough to remember when the providers
just sent the bill to the insurance company and they
paid it dun dun, dung, and the patient only had
to deal with the kope. I also remember when they
tried to cap sessions and tried to make us verify
every session. There's a bit of malicious compliance with that one.
If you want to hear about it, we do, please
(39:54):
write to us. And this is where papaly gives us
a pretty cool question. Are there any nonprofit insurance companies?
If so, how do they operate in the current landscape?
And that's a question for the group because if you
folks in the US, if you take your Internet browser
choice and you look for just nonprofit insurance companies, what
(40:19):
you're going to find are a lot of traditional for
profit insurance companies who have special programs for nonprofit companies.
So it's it's already a little bit money.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
Yeah, I've never actually looked for nonprofit insurance.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It seems somewhat paradox account.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
Yeah, for sure, especially in our TIS. I mean, it
seems like it would be cool if that's whatever, it'd
be great, like, Yeah, how does that even function.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Yeah, what is that?
Speaker 4 (40:46):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Who benefits?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Isn't that funny? They're like, have you guys seen the
new season of Black Mirror, by the way, Yes, yeah,
that's the whole thing. I haven't seen the whole.
Speaker 6 (40:56):
Thing, but I've seen the first three and the first episode,
which is quite dark.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
It's called common People.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
It really is about the healthcare system. And you know,
I've seen actually a podcast I listened to called The
Weekly Planet with these lovely Australian fellows. They didn't get
why that episode hits so close to home for so
many people. Rather let me rephrase that, they did exercise
empathy and look at why it might hit close And
(41:23):
the reason is in Australia they don't have the same
kind of show of a medical you know system that
we have. So the issues that are demonstrated that are
shown in this episode Common People about just you know,
crippling medical debt, the idea of subscription models more or
less for your.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Own healthcare, native dystopian.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
Native advertising, all of that thing, but specifically that subscription
model to just keep yourself or your loved ones alive
is something that is very real and feels very close
to home here as American citizens. What you're talking about
here us not being able to wrap our heads around
the idea of insurance that is intended to benefit individuals
(42:02):
rather than for you know, massive profits exclusively. It's something
that we have a hard time wrapping our head around
here as well.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
It's one of the Yeah, that's why I love your
questions so much, Populy. It's one of the biggest differences,
or one of the biggest unique aspects of the United
States amid all the developed countries existing in the world.
And it's it's a dangerous thing. It's a shame that
it's been so tribalized and politicized and gosh commodified, modified,
(42:33):
all the other words that are bad that end in ied.
We'll do one more. We'll do one more. We'll go
to farm a nurse. Farmer nurse says, you can call
me farmer nurse. I just listened to your Evil Core episode.
That's how farmer Nurse spells it, and felt compelled to
add to the story. The insurance company and evil cores
of this country have far too much say in the
(42:55):
healthcare we received. Here's my real life example. I work
for or a pharmaceutical company that has the only FDA
approved treatment for rare disease. This treatment doesn't just make
the patient marginally better, this is a life saving treatment
that allows them to lead a completely normal life. Needless
(43:16):
to say, this is a very expensive drug. To your point, nol,
that's another thing that sounds crazy outside of the US,
but makes sense in this current milieu. Farmer Nurse continues.
Frequently the insurance company evil Core will tell the doctor
that they cannot use our FDA approved drug, but instead
must first try another treatment that is not even FDA
(43:39):
approved for this particular diagnosis. So now, says Farmer Nurse,
these companies are not only saying that doctor is wrong
for prescribing this medication, but they are also saying the
FDA doesn't know what they're talking about. Needless to say,
this topic makes me very hot under the collar. Our
healthcare system needs a major overhaul. We spend more per
(44:01):
patient than any other country, but our health outcomes are
the same or worse than all other countries. Evil Core
may be trying to lower our healthcare spending, but they
are not doing anything to improve the patient's health.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Here here preach huzzah, no, not hazza. Whatever the opposite
of his eyes.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Uh nuzzah, Yeah, sure love it.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
This is not cool. Sorry, guys, it's.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Very much not cool, and that's because it's very much true.
These are just a few of the letters we've received
regarding our prior authorization episode. Please check it out if
your afternoon is going too well and you need some
bad news. What hits me about this, guys and fellow
conspiracy realist, all of us playing along at home, is
(44:48):
that everybody seems to be roughly on the same page.
Everybody who is not a shareholder or a board member
is saying, yes, the system is broken. The disagreements are
only on what the solutions could be.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Hey, I got some solutions for you.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
All right, let's hear the top three.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
No, I can't say I'm out loud.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Oh ye, good bye? All right?
Speaker 4 (45:14):
What if we each do one? I'll do one. Having
big boy, grown up healthcare system.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
That's a good one. How about that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
How about a kicking the nuts?
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Okay, kicking the nuts that's number two good?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
How about Sovereign Wealth fund?
Speaker 5 (45:31):
Right?
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I love a little s w F.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Right.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
I pose a question to myself, who exactly is deserving
of said kicking the nuts kind of hard to pin down.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Yeah, I was picturing it like a like a metaphorical
or metal level preise capital and nuts. You could even
do it. We could do like an acronym right National
United tough speech. No, no, no, no, no, there's a
better one there. I'm just freestyling.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Adam Smith.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
What that that would be like? Nads?
Speaker 5 (46:08):
Oh no, I'm just sorry. Im thinking about who to
kick in the nuts?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
They are?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Okay? First off, in defense of Adam Smith, by the way,
he uses the phrase invisible hand very rarely in his work.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Question ran with that.
Speaker 6 (46:22):
Question, y'all, what if there were a vigilante out there
instead of killing healthcare CEOs.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Just kicking them in the nuts?
Speaker 4 (46:30):
I like it.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
I like it, or nut man, that's really good. But
what if instead they're going through and waking up the
CEOs of all the healthier corporations and you know, quietly
influencing them to let them finally understand how horrifying all
of this is.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
I like that. I like, let's add to the superpowered
dossier because I think wouldn't it also be more psychologically
troubling if, instead of just sometimes people get kicked in
the nuts, but other times he's just doing the thing
where he sneaks into the house and then he wakes
the person up and he gently touches their balls, you.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Know what I mean, or just just shows himself outside
the window so he doesn't have to actually break in,
but the person inside knows. I like tack the nuts
right outside my window.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
I like the personal horror. You know, that's such violation.
You wake up and someone ooh no, yeah, I mean
that's breaking several laws.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Uh, that's very very it is very much.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah, it's very much. We're going to end with a
quick palate cleansers, some letters from home. This is our
this is our part where you know, we try not
to end on too much terrible news, so we just
give some We we just give some input from our
fellow listeners who had a nice thing to say or
(47:57):
a little recommendation. So our our first one is from
our trustee Minnesota officer who says, I'm not Australian, but
you did ask for Australian movies. This is a cheesy
children's nineteen eighties movie filled with a great mystery adventure
that still holds up. My kids loved it when they
were younger. It is called The Quest. It came out
(48:19):
in nineteen eighty six, So if you're looking for something
to watch, Trusty Minnesota Officer recommends The Quest. Send us
more Australia cinema recommendations. Our last word today is from our.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Oh that one.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
By the way, the subtitle over that movie is the
Frog Dreaming or Frog Dreaming and it it goes back
to our episode on the Dreaming that we did with
Annie Reese I believe.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Anny Race Yes, yeah yeah, in our time down on
the We also have an upcoming listener mail segment on
prophetic dreams, and we have an upcoming episode on weird
dream experiences. So watch The Quest before then we will
two last thing things. Shout out to Links, a conspiracy
realist who wrote to us and asked for help with
(49:06):
a school assignment. Thank you so much, Links. We love
this kind of stuff and feel free to send send
your school assignment request to us as well. We are
not going to chat GPT your homework, but we always
are happy to provide input, and we hope you want
to provide input too. So we're going to call it
a night. We're gonna go noctivigate. We're going to work
(49:28):
on this fantastic vigilante idea and in the meantime we
want to hear from you. Find us online, call us
on the phone, send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
It's right.
Speaker 6 (49:37):
You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where
we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where
it gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube
where we have video content galore for your enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
On Instagram and TikTok. On the other hand, we're Conspiracy
Stuff Show. We have a phone number. It is one
eight three three STDWYTK. You should be able to call
us reach us at any time, doesn't matter what time
it is, where you are, doesn't matter what country you're in.
Use the old voipe you can get through. We have
had many a call from Australia and the UK and
(50:14):
other EU countries. Please do call us when you call in,
give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if
we can use your name and message on the air.
If you'd like to reach out to us electronically in
a different way, why not send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. As our pal Gary Oldman like to say,
I've crossed oceans of time to find you. That's a
quote from Dracula, played by Gary Oldman. Let us know
some of your favorite film quotes. Pitch us weird ideas
for vigilantes. You can reach us twenty four hours in evening,
(50:52):
seven nights a week. All you have to do is
be well aware yet una freed. Sometimes the void, writes back.
Speaker 5 (50:59):
Ben, we need for the healthcare system is the shadow?
Speaker 4 (51:04):
Agree some sort of vigilante. Speaking of check out our
two part series on Luigi Mangeo and tell us your thoughts.
Join us out here in the Dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
name is Noel.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
They called me ed.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We're joined as always with our super producer, Dylan the
Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
And with great thanks to our pal, Dylan the Tennessee
pal Fagan, we like to start our weekly listener Mail
(00:50):
segment with a little bit of a sound cue Dylan,
what do we have rudebago wise?
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Yes, oh my god.
Speaker 6 (01:04):
It's always real on listener mail. We keep it real
on listener now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I played that song for I don't even notice if
it was for marching band or orchestra or something in
high school, and I specifically remember playing that song over
and over and over.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
I can see that being a rock and marching band arrangement.
Let's say opportunities for snare cadences.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Right, Yeah, it's got some high dramatic stakes Lyrically, it's.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
It's cool from a writing perspective at school, because you know,
we all have probably heard that you're not supposed to
make a request and then end it with comma, no
worries if not, So it's a little more powerful to
say or let's forget about.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It, or else. I always read it as or else,
forget about it.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
I don't know, I just remember this part.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Speaking of beautiful, we are
joined with several friends and neighbors, fellow conspiracy realists from
across the globe. That's right, we forget sometimes, but we
aren't technically a global show. At this point, we're going
to talk a little bit about the amazing and quite
(02:19):
disturbing correspondence we received regarding our prior or authorizations conspiracy episode.
We're gonna have letters from home. We're going to we're
going to dive into a story pertaining to one of
the weirdest comic strips of yesteryear?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Is it Family Circus?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Oh? Even more yesteryear? Yester year? Were I like the maps?
Did you like the maps? Sometimes they would publish a
Family Circus would publish just a one panel thing, which
was a traced map of the kid walking around.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No I don't think I saw that.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
I think this is a radio play, by the way,
or a radio series.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
By the way, but it's called Billy's Travels.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
It's a whole series in family circus where it's just
Billy have an adventure, is following a wiggly.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Line cartography fans unite and Matt to your point, I
believe the story we're talking about, yes, did begin as
a radio show, so we're gonna pay some deference to
our roots, but it's much more than that. We're also
going to talk about tariffs. Before we do any of that,
we're going to take a brief pause for word from
(03:34):
our sponsors, and we're going to hear from a returning guest.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
And we're back with today's first piece of listener.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Mail from Reply Guy. I'm just joking.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
It's Privacy Guy. Privacy Guy, Isn't that right, Ben? That's
what he goes by. You guys have corresponded quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah, that's the moniker we bestowed upon the Privacy Guy,
and we do you dig it.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
He's very very very well versed on all things tech
when it comes to surveillance, state type stuff, encryption, et cetera.
And he had a really, really excellent response to our
discussion about the signal incidents, of course, where high level
members of the Trump administration were found to be using
a publicly available app for sending war correspondence or plans.
(04:28):
That was sort of eves dropped on by a journalist
from the Atlantic. And when I say Eves dropped, I'm
using that term very loosely because he was of course
invited to the chat. Well, that story seems to have
taken a backseat to a lot of other shenanigans in
the news.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I do think it's.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
Important to talk a little bit about the idea of
what Signal as an app actually is and a distinction
with it and another app that I mentioned called Telegram,
which purports to be a very similar app to Signal
but has a lot of dirty launch and baggage. And
our buddy privacy guy has a bit of a bone
(05:04):
to pick with them and with me, and I'm totally
here for it. Good morning, gentlemen. Just finished listening to
your strange news segment published March thirty first about the
signal incident, and I have a few things I need
to say. First off, I do not want to admit
to my bias. I like Signal a lot. I do
have a fair bit of criticism with them, but it's
mostly nitpicky stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
And again this is.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
Coming from someone who's very well versed in this world
this type of software, very expert level awareness of what's
going on in the world of encryption and encryption apps, etc.
So just keep that in mind when you're hearing some
of these beefs. I think they're a solid service that
does great work, and I've gotten all my friends and
family using them. So first off, he says, Matt set up,
(05:46):
but pretty sure it was me because I was talking
about how I have used Telegram in the past and
how it was my understanding that it was quote basically like.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Signal with the end to end encryption. Politely, he says.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
No, I think could be further from the truth. Second,
biased to admit, I can despise Telegram, but I have
receipts to back up my grudge. First off, Telegram is
not to end encrypted by defaults and privacy guy, I
had heard that after the fact. I remember when the
Telegrams CEO, a French gentleman, was arrested very publicly, and
(06:23):
all this news was being made about him and his
role in the way the app functions in some of
the maybe less than transparent advertisement and claims made around
the app, and also its use as a tool for
selling contraband selling illegal narcotics, et cetera. And we also
pointed out, I believe in a previous discussion on that matter,
(06:45):
how any app available, any communication device has the potential
to be used for nefarious purposes, and it is not
inherently the fault of the proprietors of said you know
service that it is being used that way. If there
is a communication to be had, people are going to
use it for all kinds of things that were maybe
(07:06):
not intended by the nature of the app. But to backtrack,
Telegram is not and to end encrypted by default you
have to manually enable it, which is a complicated process
that can only be done on mobile devices. So most
users have a false sense of security about the safety
of their messages, not like it matters because Telegram's encryption
(07:26):
is so trash that experts repeatedly warned against using it,
and these cites multiple sources for this claim. To their defense,
they did eventually upgrade to m Proto two, which I
assume as an encryption standard, and I have seen one
paper saying looks sound quote unquote, but A that was
only one paper. I've never seen any other audits or
(07:50):
reviews of the cryptography since. And B even that one
paper openly admitted this was a very cursory glance, and
we haven't dug in deep. Last, but not least, however,
Telegram overtly lied.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
To users for years.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
For years, Telegram's website proudly stated to this day, we
have shared zero bites of user data with any third parties,
including governments, after they've actually shared data thousands of times now.
To be clear, I expect companies to comply with legal orders.
Signal has, Proton has Proton Mail, as I believe in
(08:26):
encrypted email service. Maybe they have other wings of that service,
but I've always heard of it as being like a
kind of a really really tightly encrypted Gmail alternative.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Proton has nearly everyone does.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
I also expect companies not to fking lie about it
and then gaslight their users. Telegram's website has since been
updated to say today we have shared zero bytes of
user messages with any third parties. Tricky tricky, including governments
regarding Signal and Proton complying It's also worth noting that
(09:01):
they never have anything of value to turn over because
of their privacy and security. But that's a very good
point as to why Telegram would have those things. It
speaks to the misconception that you are pointing out here,
privacy guy, I wouldn't recommend Telegram to anyone for anything.
Between shoddy security and constantly lying to and gaslighting their users,
(09:23):
it's got more red flags than a Chinese flag factory.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's funny.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
Sources for all of these claims full disclosure, that's me
and my podcast, and yes, I'm being an insufferable. One
of the sources he cited is his own podcast where
he's apparently being an insufferable. But hey, self awareness is
the first step towards recovery. But only because these claims
have been verifiable for years, and the Telegram fanboys would
still come into our comment section and dig their heels
(09:51):
in and argue with us despite the fact that we
would cite our sources. And then a question for Ben second,
would I would want to ask Ben about his claims
against Signal Twice been made the assertion that Signal can
be cracked by governments. I know you said something to
the effect that what's official and what's true behind closed
doors are very different, and I think that's exactly the point.
(10:12):
Ben and I agree, but this claim seems false. However,
I respect been a lot and is normally very much
on point with these sorts of things. Would be worth
a quick follow up, which we will certainly do momentarily.
Hopefully none of that came off too aggressive, at least
not against you. I'm already on record being hostile towards
Telegram or angry at you, which I'm not.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
But I hope that cleared up a few things. Last thing,
I think this is worth mentioning.
Speaker 6 (10:35):
PS On your recent episode with Denise Chan, you guys
recommended one way to avoid scams is to go find
the right phone numbers independently, rather than trusting the ones
provided to you.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, this is a great.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
Idea, Sadly these days, it has a couple caveats.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
First, don't trust the AI summaries. We don't, I swear.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
We covered a story recently about how scammers managed to
push a malicious phone number into the AI summary. I
was unable to find that story again, but I did
find this story about a guy who tried to vet
a phone number for Meta with metas Ai, and it
falsely assured him that the phone number was legit. Also,
listeners should definitely start using ad blockers as Another common
(11:11):
scam is to use malicious ads called malvertizing new one
on me to create fake websites, either for phishing log
in credentials or to trick people with fake phone numbers.
Even the FBI now recommends ad blocking as a cybersecurity measure.
I personally encourage U block Origin. It's available on all browsers,
though Chrome has recently severely handicapped it. We were just
(11:33):
talking off air about how maybe it's time to check
back in with Firefox.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
That was you bet.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Yet another reason to stop using Chrome is open source
and blocks more than just ads, trackers and malicious domains
as well. Plus other well known ad blockers are known
to whitelist advertisers for payment. Alternately, you can switch to
Brave we talked about, which has a built in ad blocker,
but does whitelist ads on their search engine.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Of course, a lot of good.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Information there, Privacy guy, I am getting rid of Telegram immediately,
but to the point of signal having the potential for
being cracked, I wonder if we might discuss that a
little bit at Privacy Guy's request.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Sure. Yeah, First, privacy Guy, thank you so much for
calling me quote normally really smart and knowing my stuff.
End quote. And they'll thank you for calling me on
point this is I was paraphrasing as this is a
this is a great thing that you wrote to us
about Privacy Guy, because I responded back, we did need
(12:35):
to be more clear on this point, in particular, without
going too into the signal seaweeds, I was indeed referring
to the rarefied air of state level malware like Vegas's
or Paragon, and to a lesser degree, the good old
fashioned social engineering aspects. And we wanted to make sure
(12:59):
we get this out to the world because you know,
it's no I'd love that you pick this because it's
it's such a great point right now from what we understand,
without the deployment of those very sophisticated high level programs signal,
even at the federal level, the the authorities in the
(13:21):
US can get the day and time user registered, the
last date of a user's connection with the service, but
they cannot get the actual content of the messages.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Unless you get invited to a chat group in.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Which we can't be kind of like social engineering.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Well, that's what I was getting to bet, and I
think to your point, you can crack just about anything
through old fashion methods, you know, is by like sneaking
a peek over someone's shoulder when they're I mean, like,
let's think about that.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
That is a form of cracking. Again.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
I know, privacy guy here is coming at this very
much from the point of view of cyber security of hacking,
but we just recently did an episode about Russian sleeper agents,
and so many of the techniques deployed with that kind
of stuff is just good old fashioned spying, using your
eyes and biting your time and maybe getting someone's password,
(14:16):
you know, through analog.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Means that is absolutely away.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
The point being that these types of conversations that we're
talking about here should probably be held in like a skiff,
one of those information isolated spaces that are heavily monitored
and that are designed for very specific types of conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Doing anything on.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
A publicly available app that is potentially on your phone
just feels like an absolute can of worms, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Tut tut, It's a bag of unfortunate badgers. There's another
point because we are, as Lil said, paraphrasing you a
bit privacy guy, and I am a fan of your show.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
What's the name of a show? Can we shout it out?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
That is valence reports. So another point that we were
talking about Privacy Guide was the idea that I think
the public needs to be more aware of the theoretical
capability to deploy things like Pagasus or Paragon is way
(15:19):
different from actually using it because we often forget. We're
saying this in correspondence. We can all see we can
often forget that a lot of state agencies that would
be using these programs they're continually running up against budget constraints,
their internal turf wars and so on. You know, I
always imagine our poor NSA intern Steve, reading our emails
(15:43):
and going, oh my god, you guys, I have to
get through four hundred more of these before lunch. Do
we have it in the budget? I'm a contractor. So
we have to understand that it's devilishly easy for our valid,
well earned paranoia and cins to at times impede critical thought.
(16:04):
Signal does seem pretty secure unless you do some extra
special moves.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, guys, Can we talk about the other thing that
was brought up, ad blockers. Yes, so as a human
being that experiences the Internet and things that have lots
of ads in them, yes, ad blockers all day. But
it does feel like there's a whole lot of industry
online that is built on the fact that human beings
(16:31):
will see and hear ads.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I don't know how to feel about it, because I
definitely want them and have used them in the past,
but also we do kind of need them, and don't
we want them to be less horrifying because they're like
if you try and look at anything online now, especially
a place that supposedly has stories about the news, sure,
(16:56):
it's the layouts with the ads and what they do.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's it's tear.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
It's almost like the actual story is a caption in
between large blocks of ads. Yeah, yeah, this is off Mic.
We were talking with Dylan, and I want to thank
you Dylan for recommending something. We'd love to hear your
opinion on privacy Guy the browser libre Wolf l I
b r E Wolf. This feels like, I don't know,
(17:23):
like you're saying, it's kind of a pickle because online
advertising is sort of the Achilles Heel of digital monetization.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well, yeah, I don't want the Guardian to go away,
but they have to sell some ads, so it's like,
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Know, yeah, yeah, I still know how to feel about it.
Maybe we should throw to some ads.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
No, I think we should.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Thanks again, privacy guy. We'll be back after a quick
worry from our sponsor with more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And we've returned, and we're jumping to the phone lines
immediately to hear from someone you might recognize the.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Fog roll in object matter.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Who knows what evil in the hearts of men?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Hell yeah, the Shadow knows well, you have seen that
same evil in his.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Own black her.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Nice nailing it, nailing.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Oh and that's all we get.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That's great, it's great. Takes me back to buying cassette
tapes at a cracker barrel to get those old radio place.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Oh nice, nice. Well, I think that I think Viking
was listening to a previous episode and heard us mention
the Shadow, because that is, in fact, I don't know
what you say. The catchphrase the opening line of ye
old nineteen thirties radio program, The Shadow that you can
read about at the Radio Hall of fame. By the way,
(19:07):
it was inducted in nineteen eighty nine. Very very cool.
I want to give you, guys another line that maybe
Viking you could call back in and give us this too.
The weed of crime bears bitter fruit. Crime does not
pay taste gross. Really, that's the only reason I want
(19:31):
to play, guys, because we mentioned it.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
I thought it was cool.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
It's funny. There's a bit of synchronicity here, Matt, because
I was thinking I was going to go on to
here's where it gets crazy and bring resurrect our old
conversation about choosing superpowers. Would love to hear everybody's favorite superpowers,
and the Shadow does have superpowers without getting too into
the lore. I love how he can what is it.
(19:56):
He can sort of aggressively hypnotize people. He can men's minds,
you know, with internal shadows. That's it.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So people can't see him. He's there the whole time,
He's right there, but they have no idea.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It'd be great to hear. It'd be great to hear
like a new adaptation of The Shadow. I know it's
a franchise now. There were some recent comic book adaptations,
but it'd be great to hear like a world where
the shadows invisibility or obscuring powers apply to the digital
(20:31):
world as well, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, yeah,
that'd be kind of cool.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, dude.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So shout out to Frank Frank Readick, who was the
original Shadow, and also shout out to Orson Wells, who,
at twenty two years old, began playing the Shadow.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
No way, Yes, pretty awesome radio.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
The Radio history for your ears. There you go check
out the Radio Hall of Fame. It's awesome, by the way, Yes,
so cool. All right, guys, jump into the next thing.
That is not what you're expecting, but I'm going to
play it very quickly here just for giggles.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Here we go.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
I want you to know this is stuff I don't
want to spend. What's driving my car to next kit
for a wedding kept playing bubble Beat Tuna in a
very specific.
Speaker 8 (21:21):
Manner that made me think that you.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Also enjoyed as certain Jim Carrey movie from the nineties.
And I just I mean, I just the nods, wink, nudge,
it's all there.
Speaker 9 (21:33):
From this time of the table.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
That's where you're going. If not, you're just enjoying the names,
then Rock On's brother, but kind of.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (21:42):
I got a curri vibes. That's all. Okay, I'm gonna
go now.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Back nonsense Poopy Pence.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Sorry, well.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's right, and you must be the monopoly guy. It's
in the bone, it's in the bull. These are all
my references from that movie.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
The second Yes, when nature calls, oh.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I got what hippo fotomous right like fo all right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I think it's I think it's actually a rhino.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Ben rhino.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, r rhino is right.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
That's what I get from coming out the wrong end
of it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (22:25):
That's it.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You never know what I don't really they don't really
focus on the head too much.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Well, guys, uh I was gonna play a clip of
it because it's so great hearing Jim Carrey as a
Spenta say bumble bee tuna a whole bunch, But the
actual phrasing that comes from a Fulton Green wall, which
is like the the guide basically that is taking a
Spenta through and meeting the tribes. He says bumble way tuna,
(22:51):
bumble way a tuna, and uh Ace believes it is
bumble bee tunas so wonderful.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
How do you think a Ventura would have vibe with
the Sentinel ease?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I was thinking that, and I was afraid to sup
have the thought.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Nothing problematic about that situation.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He would say, bubble bee tuna, ace Ventura, pet detective,
how are you this afternoon? Alrighty, then excuse me, your
balls are showing bubble bee tuna.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
That is verbatim.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
You know this movie to a shocking degree. I'm just
gonna say.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Well, I think it was one of those films in
that Halcyon era where kids of a certain age would
go see that they would say, okay, so this is
my personality.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Now, well that's what funny is. It made me go, oh,
I think whatever this is is hilarious.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
So I really liked him.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
Carry he's electric, He's great. I have that for the
first one. I remember him singing out of his butt.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Yes, they refer to that in the second film.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There's a moment when they're in the mansion and they're like,
you know, we don't They're looking for ace Ventura and
the guy says, uh, we don't have names here, we
don't have labels here. He's like the one who talks
out of his butt and he's like, oh right, right
this way.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
I do also have some good news for you stuff.
They want you to sandwich here. In addition to all
the great life's life milestones you have met. Uh, dear
conspiracy realist friend and neighbor, ace Ventura three has been
in the works for several shut up, I can't shut
(24:31):
up because I'm telling you the truth. Ace Ventura three
has been uh it's in production limbo for a while,
but apparently they're still kind of wagh in it. It
just depends on, you know, how Jim Carrey's feeling.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just don't know that it blends with the current
zeit geist. I think it's maybe.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Take a different direction, you know, ben the genre a
little bit won't make it? No, make it like a
true attack the thing.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh if it was like really gritty and.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Dark, Yeah, you know what I mean, don't recast pretty crazy?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, Ace Ace is the same. We just have who
is the character from the first True Detective?
Speaker 4 (25:18):
We love Rustle Also quick note to get in front
of the emails. Yes, folks, we realize there is a
Sventura Junior Pet Detective, which is sometimes called the third
ace Ventura, but as purest as people with respect for
the high art of cinema. We're we're holding out for
(25:40):
the Jim Carrey help, Yes, the.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
Way to that point. Son of the Mask? Not really truly,
you've not heard of the Son of the Mask.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
It's so bad, we don't not even in the comics.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, with all of this in mind, let's jump to
a rather more serious listener mail getting out of the
when nature calls vibes here. By the way, A Sventura
is the guy who was trying to attain enlightenment when
he gets that medallion from one of the monks. It
took him like eighty years to get the medallion, and
the monk is like, no, just just take the just
(26:18):
take it and get out here.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
Please. Okay, let's go to Art Vandalay.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
Hey, guys, you can call me Art Vandalay. I just
listened to the tariff episode as I'm commuting into my
supply chain job in the building products industry been around
since before twenty eighteen when Trump laid the first, you know,
heavy hand of tariffs on China, and you know, in our.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Particular space, not only did it increase the price to
import those goods, but also, the capability to produce some
of those goods did not exist outside of China, where
a lot of the innovation of exists. So several companies
started up factories, whether that was in Southeast Asia or
even here in the US. And it's very difficult to
(27:09):
manage when when the rhetoric changes, you know, day by.
Speaker 10 (27:12):
Day, week by week. But I guess, I guess that's
job security, right. So one thing I thought I would
bring up is here, just yesterday, a factory in our
industry based here in the US, just outside of Atlanta,
got raided and suspected of human trafficking. So for all
the all the things that end up in the news,
(27:33):
a lot of folks don't believe it's gonna be gonna
be the ones here in the US.
Speaker 9 (27:36):
So anyways, love the show, appreciate you guys.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Wo okay, And that's referring to the March twenty fifth rate, maybe.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
March twenty fifth, twenty sixth grade.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Yeah, that is well.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I shared just now in the chat a website for
well made floors dot com. And if you head on
over there, you'll find a website filled with well made, waterproof,
premium flooring and vinyl planks and all kinds of dry
back planks and bamboo planks, and it just looks like
a wonderful website with all kinds of great products that
(28:14):
you can put on the bare part of your floor
so now you can walk on it. And this is
the thing that Art Vandala is referring to this specific
company that has this website there, let's say factory, their offices,
whatever the place is. It looks like a giant warehouse,
(28:36):
to be honest, if you look at it from above
or you look at the actual place that got raided.
It got raided, yeah, on Wednesday, March twenty sixth, and
that was the FBI, Homeland Security, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation,
and Bartow County's Sheriff's office all went in because there
(28:57):
were allegations of human and potential sexual servitude that were
being instituted there by human beings that were trafficked from
other countries, and it was happening right around the corner
from US guys. Well, you know, we hear a lot
of things about Atlanta being bad in this area, right.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, international hub of trafficking and a national hub do
at least in part to having the world's busiest airport.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
There you go, there you go exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So let's let's read a little bit from Fox five Atlanta,
one of the local folks near us. They wrote on
March twenty six, twenty twenty five, the day that this
raid occurred, that this was part of a multi year
investigation into labor trafficking, and the company's owner, zoo Chen Zhuche,
and his nephew were both arrested and face charges of
(29:50):
trafficking persons for labor or sexual servitude. And yeah, there
are allegations that victims were brought in from other countries
and forced to live in inadequate conditions and work for
well made for little pay. There were hundreds of employees
at the company and dozens of them are potential victims.
There are stories coming out from people who are interviewed,
(30:13):
because in a situation like this, the FBI and Homeland
Security raid a factory like that or a distribution center,
whatever you want to call it, they raid it. Then
they separate everybody and they interview everybody separately, and some
of those interviews have been leaked. Let's say to the press,
one of those like, we aren't going to say who
(30:33):
this person is, but here is their quote. They have
talked about small living spaces where twelve human beings were
supposed to live in a townhouse situation, and then being
taken by van to this distribution center slash factory to
work for like twelve hour days sometimes longer, then shipped
(30:55):
back and the next group of twelve people that is
now in the house, they just witch between the housing
and the factory and that's like their life essentially for
almost no pay. Just a really messed up situation. You
can read an official US Immigration and Customs Enforcement little
thing that they put out on April fourth about this,
(31:17):
like a pr statement. Essentially, they're saying this operation targeted
allegations of labor trafficking involving foreign nationals, as well as
financial crimes linked to the employer's business practices. Yeah, so
sorry to bring us down there, guys, after all the funness,
but just to point out that there this kind of
thing that we have on this show talked about, you know,
(31:41):
in a lot of other places in other parts of
the world. It does happen here in the US. It
happens in whatever country you are in right now. It
is just a thing we need to tackle and deal with.
And it is not something that can just get stamped out.
This is a multi year investigation that had to go
into you know, potentially freeing some people from some form
(32:03):
of servitude.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Yeah, and this unfortunately can be politicized or can be
used as rationale or increasing erosions of rights and rule
of law. But to that point just made it is
mission critical to realize that human trafficking is a thing,
and it's not always the thing you might see in
(32:27):
films like Take It. It can be much more regional.
It is occurring in all fifty US states to m
degree or another.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well, yeah, and we've been talking about ICE and all
the terrible crap they've been getting up to lately, right,
I mean, horrifying stuff. But it's also an organization that
can go through and do this and actually do some
good even though ICE isn't. They are the ones actually
doing the investigation. That's the local Atlanta FBI office, the
Georgia Bureau of Investigation in the Bonto sheriffs as well
(32:59):
as Home Insecurity or HSI. But still thinking about things
as more complicate. Things are always more complicated than whatever
story or news is given you, right, And that's one
of the things we always talk about on this show.
So even something like ice can function for good in
the way USDA is often vilified. Right, it can function
(33:23):
for good. It just depends on who's running it, what
the rules are, well, mostly who's running it, right, like
who is making the rules and enforcing the rules that
are internally enforced in my opinion at least, so.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Say we all, I would imagine, and I love the
point because you're right, we continually return to it. The
hard truth about reality is it takes more than five
minutes or three to five minutes on afternoon news to
explain a situation. All those stories you hear, think of
them like opening a door for you or knocking on
a door for you and saying this a lot. And
(34:02):
I don't want to say, you know what, I don't
care if I sound like a broken record. It's extremely
dangerous to paint with a broad brush with most things.
So thank you so much for bringing this story to
bear our Vandalay and Matt. I think we're going to
see more of these situations, you know, and it's going
to be increasingly politicized, at least over the near term
(34:23):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Oh yeah, all right, And with that, we'll take a
word from our sponsor and we'll be right back with
more messages from you.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And we have returned. This is guys, here's the way
I'm thinking of this. We treat this last part of
our weekly segment as more of a story sharing thing,
because you'll recall we did an episode quite recently on
a third party insurance industry entity called evi Core, or
(35:01):
as its many critics call it, evil Core. Do we
remember that episode?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
How can we forget evil Core?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It really leads an impression, it sure does, Yeah, and
I'd agree with that. We I think we all walked
away somewhat righteously indignant, if not a bit depressed by
the by the state of the situation. And it turns
out a lot of us in the audience felt the
(35:28):
same way. So we're going to share just a couple
of stories from our fellow listeners, some of whom experienced
the hazards of prior authorization, some of whom worked in
the industry in one way or another and also witnessed
this Leviathan in action. So first, let's go to somebody
(35:53):
going with a fantastic name. Are you ready? We're not ready.
It's paint Chip Nachos paints a.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Picture GISs some really mommy, So Paychef.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Nacho says, hello there, thanks for all you do. I'm
writing today to give you a little story about my
experience with prior authorizations through insurance. I have EDS, which
is a rare soft tissue disorder which causes pain and fatigue,
among other things on a daily basis, meaning this is
a chronic condition. Editorializing here, Paychef Nachos continues and says,
(36:29):
I'm on SSDI for my disabilities, as I have many
comorbidities associated with all of this. My doctors put in
referrals left and right to multiple other doctors. Some of
these referrals get denied with the excuse that quote the
patient must discuss a proper medical plan with their doctor
before approval end quote. So some of my doctors wrote
(36:51):
in appeals for me as well as myself, explaining that
my doctor has already wrote out a plan and that's
why I need the referral. A bit of a catch
twenty two for paint Chip Nachos. One of my denials
was for trigger points injections in my muscles to ease
my pain and headaches, which they wrote in as medically necessary.
(37:11):
My insurance came back with a denial, saying they needed
a peer review, which went my doctor, who's already super busy,
has to call my insurance and talk to someone there
in their medical department. When my doctor called, and she
did call twice, no one from my insurance answered the phone,
and they sent a denial due to my doctor not
(37:33):
properly calling for that peer review. I finally got a
series of three procedures approved, even though I need a
series of six for my pain to dissipate from a
six to probably a two to three on the Pain
scale and paint Chip Nachos, check out our earlier work
on the Sackler family to figure out just how fraud
the idea of the pain scale is. Nachos, You continue,
(37:55):
I always wonder why I even pay for insurance if
I'll be not denied necessary procedures. I have so many
doctors that insurance is necessary. But man, oh man, I've
also changed insurance companies. However, this new insurance company doesn't
need any prior authorizations. It'll possibly deny any procedures after
(38:17):
I get them if my doctors don't specifically note that
my procedures are medically necessary. So this leaves me in
the dark until my bill comes in and then this
goes on a little bit. But the thesis statement here
from paint Chip Nachos is that prior authorizations mean nothing
and insurance just wants to keep you sick no matter
(38:40):
what the cost, and then followed up with some very
very kind words. Theare we say teen winded words? That's
for you, paint Chip Nachos. I wanted to pause here
before you go the next one. Guys, does this experience
seem like something that might be common to a lot
of our listeners or perhaps to you in your personal lives.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I've never experienced it for but I can definitely imagine
just by you know, other news stories that will come
out where this very thing is described.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Same.
Speaker 5 (39:08):
Yeah, not something that I run across.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Well, I'm glad to here's something you guys have not
personally experienced, and hopefully that remains true in the future.
We'll go to our next one. Papa Ly Papaly, you say,
greetings and salutations. I just finished listening to your episode
on the prior authorizations conspiracy. As a mental healthcare provider,
I'm very much tied to insurance companies. I have also
(39:32):
been doing this long enough to remember when the providers
just sent the bill to the insurance company and they
paid it dun dun, dung, and the patient only had
to deal with the kope. I also remember when they
tried to cap sessions and tried to make us verify
every session. There's a bit of malicious compliance with that one.
If you want to hear about it, we do, please
(39:54):
write to us. And this is where papaly gives us
a pretty cool question. Are there any nonprofit insurance companies?
If so, how do they operate in the current landscape?
And that's a question for the group because if you
folks in the US, if you take your Internet browser
choice and you look for just nonprofit insurance companies, what
(40:19):
you're going to find are a lot of traditional for
profit insurance companies who have special programs for nonprofit companies.
So it's it's already a little bit money.
Speaker 5 (40:30):
Yeah, I've never actually looked for nonprofit insurance.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
It seems somewhat paradox account.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
Yeah, for sure, especially in our TIS. I mean, it
seems like it would be cool if that's whatever, it'd
be great, like, Yeah, how does that even function.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
Yeah, what is that?
Speaker 4 (40:46):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Who benefits?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Isn't that funny? They're like, have you guys seen the
new season of Black Mirror, by the way, Yes, yeah,
that's the whole thing. I haven't seen the whole.
Speaker 6 (40:56):
Thing, but I've seen the first three and the first episode,
which is quite dark.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
It's called common People.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
It really is about the healthcare system. And you know,
I've seen actually a podcast I listened to called The
Weekly Planet with these lovely Australian fellows. They didn't get
why that episode hits so close to home for so
many people. Rather let me rephrase that, they did exercise
empathy and look at why it might hit close And
(41:23):
the reason is in Australia they don't have the same
kind of show of a medical you know system that
we have. So the issues that are demonstrated that are
shown in this episode Common People about just you know,
crippling medical debt, the idea of subscription models more or
less for your.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Own healthcare, native dystopian.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
Native advertising, all of that thing, but specifically that subscription
model to just keep yourself or your loved ones alive
is something that is very real and feels very close
to home here as American citizens. What you're talking about
here us not being able to wrap our heads around
the idea of insurance that is intended to benefit individuals
(42:02):
rather than for you know, massive profits exclusively. It's something
that we have a hard time wrapping our head around
here as well.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
It's one of the Yeah, that's why I love your
questions so much, Populy. It's one of the biggest differences,
or one of the biggest unique aspects of the United
States amid all the developed countries existing in the world.
And it's it's a dangerous thing. It's a shame that
it's been so tribalized and politicized and gosh commodified, modified,
(42:33):
all the other words that are bad that end in ied.
We'll do one more. We'll do one more. We'll go
to farm a nurse. Farmer nurse says, you can call
me farmer nurse. I just listened to your Evil Core episode.
That's how farmer Nurse spells it, and felt compelled to
add to the story. The insurance company and evil cores
of this country have far too much say in the
(42:55):
healthcare we received. Here's my real life example. I work
for or a pharmaceutical company that has the only FDA
approved treatment for rare disease. This treatment doesn't just make
the patient marginally better, this is a life saving treatment
that allows them to lead a completely normal life. Needless
(43:16):
to say, this is a very expensive drug. To your point, nol,
that's another thing that sounds crazy outside of the US,
but makes sense in this current milieu. Farmer Nurse continues.
Frequently the insurance company evil Core will tell the doctor
that they cannot use our FDA approved drug, but instead
must first try another treatment that is not even FDA
(43:39):
approved for this particular diagnosis. So now, says Farmer Nurse,
these companies are not only saying that doctor is wrong
for prescribing this medication, but they are also saying the
FDA doesn't know what they're talking about. Needless to say,
this topic makes me very hot under the collar. Our
healthcare system needs a major overhaul. We spend more per
(44:01):
patient than any other country, but our health outcomes are
the same or worse than all other countries. Evil Core
may be trying to lower our healthcare spending, but they
are not doing anything to improve the patient's health.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Here here preach huzzah, no, not hazza. Whatever the opposite
of his eyes.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Uh nuzzah, Yeah, sure love it.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
This is not cool. Sorry, guys, it's.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Very much not cool, and that's because it's very much true.
These are just a few of the letters we've received
regarding our prior authorization episode. Please check it out if
your afternoon is going too well and you need some
bad news. What hits me about this, guys and fellow
conspiracy realist, all of us playing along at home, is
(44:48):
that everybody seems to be roughly on the same page.
Everybody who is not a shareholder or a board member
is saying, yes, the system is broken. The disagreements are
only on what the solutions could be.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Hey, I got some solutions for you.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
All right, let's hear the top three.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
No, I can't say I'm out loud.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Oh ye, good bye? All right?
Speaker 4 (45:14):
What if we each do one? I'll do one. Having
big boy, grown up healthcare system.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
That's a good one. How about that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
How about a kicking the nuts?
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Okay, kicking the nuts that's number two good?
Speaker 2 (45:26):
How about Sovereign Wealth fund?
Speaker 5 (45:31):
Right?
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I love a little s w F.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Right.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
I pose a question to myself, who exactly is deserving
of said kicking the nuts kind of hard to pin down.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Yeah, I was picturing it like a like a metaphorical
or metal level preise capital and nuts. You could even
do it. We could do like an acronym right National
United tough speech. No, no, no, no, no, there's a
better one there. I'm just freestyling.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
Adam Smith.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
What that that would be like? Nads?
Speaker 5 (46:08):
Oh no, I'm just sorry. Im thinking about who to
kick in the nuts?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
They are?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Okay? First off, in defense of Adam Smith, by the way,
he uses the phrase invisible hand very rarely in his work.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Question ran with that.
Speaker 6 (46:22):
Question, y'all, what if there were a vigilante out there
instead of killing healthcare CEOs.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Just kicking them in the nuts?
Speaker 4 (46:30):
I like it.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
I like it, or nut man, that's really good. But
what if instead they're going through and waking up the
CEOs of all the healthier corporations and you know, quietly
influencing them to let them finally understand how horrifying all
of this is.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
I like that. I like, let's add to the superpowered
dossier because I think wouldn't it also be more psychologically
troubling if, instead of just sometimes people get kicked in
the nuts, but other times he's just doing the thing
where he sneaks into the house and then he wakes
the person up and he gently touches their balls, you.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Know what I mean, or just just shows himself outside
the window so he doesn't have to actually break in,
but the person inside knows. I like tack the nuts
right outside my window.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
I like the personal horror. You know, that's such violation.
You wake up and someone ooh no, yeah, I mean
that's breaking several laws.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Uh, that's very very it is very much.
Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah, it's very much. We're going to end with a
quick palate cleansers, some letters from home. This is our
this is our part where you know, we try not
to end on too much terrible news, so we just
give some We we just give some input from our
fellow listeners who had a nice thing to say or
(47:57):
a little recommendation. So our our first one is from
our trustee Minnesota officer who says, I'm not Australian, but
you did ask for Australian movies. This is a cheesy
children's nineteen eighties movie filled with a great mystery adventure
that still holds up. My kids loved it when they
were younger. It is called The Quest. It came out
(48:19):
in nineteen eighty six, So if you're looking for something
to watch, Trusty Minnesota Officer recommends The Quest. Send us
more Australia cinema recommendations. Our last word today is from our.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Oh that one.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
By the way, the subtitle over that movie is the
Frog Dreaming or Frog Dreaming and it it goes back
to our episode on the Dreaming that we did with
Annie Reese I believe.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Anny Race Yes, yeah yeah, in our time down on
the We also have an upcoming listener mail segment on
prophetic dreams, and we have an upcoming episode on weird
dream experiences. So watch The Quest before then we will
two last thing things. Shout out to Links, a conspiracy
realist who wrote to us and asked for help with
(49:06):
a school assignment. Thank you so much, Links. We love
this kind of stuff and feel free to send send
your school assignment request to us as well. We are
not going to chat GPT your homework, but we always
are happy to provide input, and we hope you want
to provide input too. So we're going to call it
a night. We're gonna go noctivigate. We're going to work
(49:28):
on this fantastic vigilante idea and in the meantime we
want to hear from you. Find us online, call us
on the phone, send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
It's right.
Speaker 6 (49:37):
You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where
we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where
it gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube
where we have video content galore for your enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
On Instagram and TikTok. On the other hand, we're Conspiracy
Stuff Show. We have a phone number. It is one
eight three three STDWYTK. You should be able to call
us reach us at any time, doesn't matter what time
it is, where you are, doesn't matter what country you're in.
Use the old voipe you can get through. We have
had many a call from Australia and the UK and
(50:14):
other EU countries. Please do call us when you call in,
give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if
we can use your name and message on the air.
If you'd like to reach out to us electronically in
a different way, why not send us a good old
fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. As our pal Gary Oldman like to say,
I've crossed oceans of time to find you. That's a
quote from Dracula, played by Gary Oldman. Let us know
some of your favorite film quotes. Pitch us weird ideas
for vigilantes. You can reach us twenty four hours in evening,
(50:52):
seven nights a week. All you have to do is
be well aware yet una freed. Sometimes the void, writes back.
Speaker 5 (50:59):
Ben, we need for the healthcare system is the shadow?
Speaker 4 (51:04):
Agree some sort of vigilante. Speaking of check out our
two part series on Luigi Mangeo and tell us your thoughts.
Join us out here in the Dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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